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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,724 --> 00:00:04,344 ♪♪ 2 00:00:05,413 --> 00:00:13,931 ♪♪ 3 00:00:13,931 --> 00:00:15,862 -Now, the contents of Robert Maxwell's home 4 00:00:15,862 --> 00:00:18,344 near Oxford were auctioned today at Sotheby's. 5 00:00:18,344 --> 00:00:20,827 Everything from furniture to family photographs 6 00:00:20,827 --> 00:00:22,620 came under the hammer. 7 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:24,689 One bidder paid nearly £1,000 8 00:00:24,689 --> 00:00:28,586 for the nameplate that sat on Mr. Maxwell's desk. 9 00:00:28,586 --> 00:00:30,862 -The entire contents of Headington Hill Hall, 10 00:00:30,862 --> 00:00:33,310 Mr. Maxwell's country home near Oxford, 11 00:00:33,310 --> 00:00:35,551 were today knocked down to the public. 12 00:00:35,551 --> 00:00:38,103 -£800. Yours, sir, thank you. 13 00:00:38,103 --> 00:00:40,517 -600 lots took the whole day to sell, 14 00:00:40,517 --> 00:00:42,793 including everything from barbecue forks 15 00:00:42,793 --> 00:00:44,344 to antique paintings. 16 00:00:44,344 --> 00:00:45,793 This one, a view of Jerusalem 17 00:00:45,793 --> 00:00:50,172 from where Maxwell is buried, went for £54,000. 18 00:00:50,172 --> 00:00:52,517 -The place was absolutely packed. 19 00:00:52,517 --> 00:00:54,344 There were no seats available. 20 00:00:54,344 --> 00:00:56,689 People were standing around the back. 21 00:00:56,689 --> 00:01:00,517 Basically, they all wanted the Maxwell memorabilia. 22 00:01:00,517 --> 00:01:02,206 You know, he's a notorious man, 23 00:01:02,206 --> 00:01:05,482 and by then, everyone knew what had happened. 24 00:01:05,482 --> 00:01:08,310 And then I came across this lamp. 25 00:01:09,827 --> 00:01:15,206 But what happened, of course, when I lifted that, 26 00:01:15,206 --> 00:01:17,689 I saw that, 27 00:01:17,689 --> 00:01:22,344 and realised that they were two microphones. 28 00:01:22,344 --> 00:01:25,068 He was recording everything that was said about him. 29 00:01:25,068 --> 00:01:27,586 ♪♪ 30 00:01:27,586 --> 00:01:30,758 [ Static, phone line beeping ] 31 00:01:57,172 --> 00:02:06,931 ♪♪ 32 00:02:06,931 --> 00:02:10,448 -This was actually in his own family home. 33 00:02:10,448 --> 00:02:13,862 So he wanted to know exactly what his sons thought of him, 34 00:02:13,862 --> 00:02:16,137 his wife thought of him. 35 00:02:16,137 --> 00:02:19,172 And it tells you the true story of the man. 36 00:02:19,172 --> 00:02:28,241 ♪♪ 37 00:02:31,655 --> 00:02:40,068 ♪♪ 38 00:02:40,068 --> 00:02:48,586 ♪♪ 39 00:02:48,586 --> 00:02:56,862 ♪♪ 40 00:02:56,862 --> 00:02:59,862 {\an8}-The sons of the newspaper tycoon Robert Maxwell 41 00:02:59,862 --> 00:03:03,655 {\an8}confirmed just an hour ago that their father is dead. 42 00:03:03,655 --> 00:03:08,827 {\an8}-It's a particularly sad moment 43 00:03:08,827 --> 00:03:13,172 because this paper has lost its publisher 44 00:03:13,172 --> 00:03:16,862 and its chairman and its saviour. 45 00:03:16,862 --> 00:03:20,344 -Love him or hate him, 46 00:03:20,344 --> 00:03:22,655 he touched the lives of many thousands of people, 47 00:03:22,655 --> 00:03:24,655 many millions of people. 48 00:03:24,655 --> 00:03:29,241 And we are determined to continue in his tradition. 49 00:03:29,241 --> 00:03:31,448 -After disappearing off his yacht, 50 00:03:31,448 --> 00:03:34,344 the Lady Ghislaine, Robert Maxwell's body 51 00:03:34,344 --> 00:03:38,379 is recovered from the sea off the coast of Tenerife. 52 00:03:40,379 --> 00:03:44,344 His family and inner circle gather on the island. 53 00:03:47,862 --> 00:03:51,448 -I was in Tenerife to help the family, 54 00:03:51,448 --> 00:03:56,241 and a couple of journalists appeared on that cay side. 55 00:03:56,241 --> 00:04:00,068 And then Ghislaine Maxwell comes up. 56 00:04:00,068 --> 00:04:02,758 She's wearing a tartan suit 57 00:04:02,758 --> 00:04:06,137 with a long-ish jacket and a short skirt, 58 00:04:06,137 --> 00:04:10,103 and she is really distressed. 59 00:04:10,103 --> 00:04:15,448 She looks very young and very vulnerable. 60 00:04:15,448 --> 00:04:22,241 ♪♪ 61 00:04:22,241 --> 00:04:25,448 Then her mum comes through and says, 62 00:04:25,448 --> 00:04:28,172 "What are you going to do about the press out there?" 63 00:04:28,172 --> 00:04:31,275 I said, "Well, Mrs. Maxwell, 64 00:04:31,275 --> 00:04:32,827 I don't know how you feel about it, 65 00:04:32,827 --> 00:04:39,413 but it would make things easier if you spoke to them." 66 00:04:39,413 --> 00:04:42,206 ♪♪ 67 00:04:42,206 --> 00:04:44,827 [ Siren wailing in distance ] 68 00:04:46,655 --> 00:04:51,068 And she said, "I think Ghislaine should do that." 69 00:04:51,068 --> 00:04:55,103 So Ghislaine comes through, and she's in tears. 70 00:04:55,103 --> 00:04:57,965 She's weak and heartbreaking. 71 00:04:57,965 --> 00:05:02,793 Nothing bad had ever happened to her in her life before. 72 00:05:02,793 --> 00:05:06,586 Betty puts to her that she should speak to the press. 73 00:05:06,586 --> 00:05:11,551 And she just sits there very quietly 74 00:05:11,551 --> 00:05:14,344 and she said, you know, "What will I say?" 75 00:05:14,344 --> 00:05:17,241 And it was, "We can get something done. 76 00:05:17,241 --> 00:05:19,103 We can write you a short speech, 77 00:05:19,103 --> 00:05:21,724 we can rehearse you," and we did 78 00:05:21,724 --> 00:05:25,689 and we made amendments and so on, and... 79 00:05:27,793 --> 00:05:32,103 ...she burst into tears almost every time she spoke through it. 80 00:05:32,103 --> 00:05:35,275 And terrible tears. 81 00:05:35,275 --> 00:05:38,137 Eventually, after going washing her face 82 00:05:38,137 --> 00:05:42,137 and getting herself tidied up, she said, "I'll do it now." 83 00:05:42,137 --> 00:05:44,551 [ Camera shutters clicking ] 84 00:05:44,551 --> 00:05:49,379 -I want to take this opportunity 85 00:05:49,379 --> 00:05:55,413 to thank all the many hundreds of people 86 00:05:55,413 --> 00:06:01,310 who have sent messages of support to us 87 00:06:01,310 --> 00:06:04,413 at this very, very sad time. 88 00:06:06,896 --> 00:06:11,379 I want also to thank the press 89 00:06:11,379 --> 00:06:17,827 for their courtesy and consideration 90 00:06:17,827 --> 00:06:22,206 to my mother and to us 91 00:06:22,206 --> 00:06:24,000 at this time, 92 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,586 which we appreciate very much. 93 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:32,172 Gracias a todos, and thank you all very much. 94 00:06:32,172 --> 00:06:39,448 ♪♪ 95 00:06:39,448 --> 00:06:46,448 ♪♪ 96 00:06:46,448 --> 00:06:49,413 -It was a cold, windy day on the Mount of Olives. 97 00:06:49,413 --> 00:06:52,862 Robert Maxwell was buried here according to his wish. 98 00:06:52,862 --> 00:06:56,724 Tears from Mr. Maxwell's sons, his wife, and his daughters. 99 00:06:56,724 --> 00:06:59,517 From Mr. Maxwell's eldest son, Philip, 100 00:06:59,517 --> 00:07:01,000 a moving tribute. 101 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,931 -Dear Dad... 102 00:07:05,931 --> 00:07:07,689 soldier... 103 00:07:09,275 --> 00:07:13,862 ...publisher and patriot, 104 00:07:13,862 --> 00:07:17,448 warrior and globetrotter, 105 00:07:17,448 --> 00:07:21,620 father of nine children and grandfather of eight, 106 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:23,379 we salute you. 107 00:07:27,620 --> 00:07:31,482 -After an autopsy, Maxwell's body is buried quickly, 108 00:07:31,482 --> 00:07:33,965 in line with Jewish tradition. 109 00:07:33,965 --> 00:07:35,827 [ Telephone rings ] 110 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,586 -Across his global media empire, 111 00:07:47,586 --> 00:07:52,310 fear and confusion is spreading through his senior executives. 112 00:08:01,551 --> 00:08:03,862 -And it's being secretly recorded 113 00:08:03,862 --> 00:08:06,379 on his elaborate bugging system. 114 00:08:11,413 --> 00:08:15,310 -These calls have been re-voiced to protect identities. 115 00:08:23,827 --> 00:08:31,379 ♪♪ 116 00:08:31,379 --> 00:08:33,896 -Do you think it's unlikely, 117 00:08:33,896 --> 00:08:37,448 inconceivable that Mr. Maxwell could have committed suicide? 118 00:08:37,448 --> 00:08:41,206 -I cannot imagine any situation that would cause Bob Maxwell 119 00:08:41,206 --> 00:08:43,241 to take his own life. 120 00:08:44,758 --> 00:08:48,241 -The thing he most hated was being bored and left alone. 121 00:08:48,241 --> 00:08:51,758 So the notion of going on the boat on his own 122 00:08:51,758 --> 00:08:54,310 seemed to me so alien, I thought, "Hmm, 123 00:08:54,310 --> 00:08:57,000 I think he probably did go with the intention 124 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,137 of killing himself." 125 00:08:59,137 --> 00:09:07,517 ♪♪ 126 00:09:07,517 --> 00:09:09,000 -We hear now that he probably died of 127 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,103 a heart attack before he fell in the water. 128 00:09:11,103 --> 00:09:12,655 But nonetheless, the question remains, 129 00:09:12,655 --> 00:09:14,758 how did you fall off the boat? -You can inject someone 130 00:09:14,758 --> 00:09:17,413 to pretend or make it look like someone's had a heart attack. 131 00:09:17,413 --> 00:09:19,586 And there's going to be a lot of speculation about that. 132 00:09:19,586 --> 00:09:25,689 ♪♪ 133 00:09:25,689 --> 00:09:28,068 -Will he ask the Prime Minister, 134 00:09:28,068 --> 00:09:31,275 as head of the Security and Intelligence Services, 135 00:09:31,275 --> 00:09:35,620 to order an immediate enquiry into the alleged relationship 136 00:09:35,620 --> 00:09:39,517 between the Israeli intelligence service and Robert Maxwell? 137 00:09:39,517 --> 00:09:41,931 -It was flying around it could be Mossad, 138 00:09:41,931 --> 00:09:44,620 but, you know, it could have easily been anyone 139 00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:47,689 that he had defaulted on payment on 140 00:09:47,689 --> 00:09:52,275 or maybe was even putting pressure on to give him money. 141 00:09:52,275 --> 00:09:54,517 It could have been anyone. 142 00:09:54,517 --> 00:09:56,758 ♪♪ 143 00:09:56,758 --> 00:09:58,724 [ Telephone rings ] 144 00:10:05,931 --> 00:10:07,068 -But as the outside world 145 00:10:07,068 --> 00:10:09,620 speculates about Maxwell's death, 146 00:10:09,620 --> 00:10:13,172 inside his empire, there's another mystery. 147 00:10:15,931 --> 00:10:17,517 -Huge problems have been discovered 148 00:10:17,517 --> 00:10:20,586 with the company's finances. 149 00:10:31,275 --> 00:10:36,275 -The whole empire could be facing collapse. 150 00:10:41,758 --> 00:10:45,931 And one young reporter is about to break the story. 151 00:10:45,931 --> 00:10:48,689 -I'm joined by Bronwen Maddox, who's a former media analyst 152 00:10:48,689 --> 00:10:51,275 and is now a journalist on the Financial Times. 153 00:10:51,275 --> 00:10:53,275 How much do we really know 154 00:10:53,275 --> 00:10:57,758 about the state of the Maxwell financial empire? 155 00:10:57,758 --> 00:10:59,862 -I'd always wanted to be a journalist. 156 00:10:59,862 --> 00:11:02,103 I got sidetracked into the city 157 00:11:02,103 --> 00:11:05,413 because it was a very lively thing to do 158 00:11:05,413 --> 00:11:07,517 when I was leaving university, 159 00:11:07,517 --> 00:11:08,965 and it came with a lot of adventures, 160 00:11:08,965 --> 00:11:11,275 actually, more than I would have got in journalism, 161 00:11:11,275 --> 00:11:13,448 I think, starting out. 162 00:11:15,310 --> 00:11:18,137 I was working for a bank, an investment house, 163 00:11:18,137 --> 00:11:22,655 writing reports for investors about media companies. 164 00:11:22,655 --> 00:11:25,620 And I had enjoyed going to company chairmen 165 00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:28,310 or chief executives and challenging 166 00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:29,620 what they were saying. 167 00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:31,758 BSB, I think, was an inappropriate investment 168 00:11:31,758 --> 00:11:32,896 for bond. 169 00:11:32,896 --> 00:11:34,103 The Guardianneeds a re-launch. 170 00:11:34,103 --> 00:11:36,068 It's lost about 13% of its readers. 171 00:11:36,068 --> 00:11:38,551 The mess they're in is trying to reduce salaries 172 00:11:38,551 --> 00:11:40,379 and manning levels very quickly, 173 00:11:40,379 --> 00:11:42,724 and the blame does lie with the management. 174 00:11:44,448 --> 00:11:46,793 I'd been following Robert Maxwell and his companies 175 00:11:46,793 --> 00:11:50,103 as part of that job, and indeed, travelling round to see them 176 00:11:50,103 --> 00:11:53,689 and talking to Robert Maxwell. 177 00:11:53,689 --> 00:11:56,517 I actually saw him when he had the annual results. 178 00:11:56,517 --> 00:11:59,068 He was full of apparent confidence. 179 00:11:59,068 --> 00:12:02,551 Remember noticing his tie, which had a giant green 180 00:12:02,551 --> 00:12:04,793 soup stain on it, and I was looking at it. 181 00:12:04,793 --> 00:12:07,000 I'm afraid it was about my height, as I'm smaller. 182 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,931 Maxwell was bigger. 183 00:12:08,931 --> 00:12:12,034 I was wondering, "Has no one dared to tell him?" 184 00:12:12,034 --> 00:12:17,965 ♪♪ 185 00:12:17,965 --> 00:12:20,758 I was 28 when I started at the Financial Times 186 00:12:20,758 --> 00:12:23,896 in August of the year that Maxwell died, 1991, 187 00:12:23,896 --> 00:12:28,206 and immediately began looking into Maxwell as a journalist 188 00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:30,482 because the signs that something was going wrong 189 00:12:30,482 --> 00:12:32,896 had begun pitching up in the public domain. 190 00:12:32,896 --> 00:12:36,310 And specifically, there were signs that he had mortgaged 191 00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:38,620 a lot of things in his companies. 192 00:12:38,620 --> 00:12:40,965 I knew that if he was mortgaging that many things, 193 00:12:40,965 --> 00:12:44,655 it was trying to raise money. So it was out of confidence 194 00:12:44,655 --> 00:12:47,241 of being a financial analyst in the city, 195 00:12:47,241 --> 00:12:49,448 it gave me a grounding in the numbers 196 00:12:49,448 --> 00:12:52,448 and a sense that the story is often in the numbers, 197 00:12:52,448 --> 00:12:54,724 and the numbers are often public. 198 00:12:56,620 --> 00:12:58,379 I started by saying to the editor, 199 00:12:58,379 --> 00:13:01,103 "Look, I'd like to get a few company house reports 200 00:13:01,103 --> 00:13:03,310 so that I can look in more detail 201 00:13:03,310 --> 00:13:06,793 about what's really going on." 202 00:13:06,793 --> 00:13:10,172 And then a few turned into a couple of dozen 203 00:13:10,172 --> 00:13:12,103 and then a couple of dozen turned into, 204 00:13:12,103 --> 00:13:14,448 well, really quite a few more dozen. 205 00:13:14,448 --> 00:13:16,827 And this piled up, and at some point he said, 206 00:13:16,827 --> 00:13:18,551 "Look, just get everything." 207 00:13:18,551 --> 00:13:23,689 ♪♪ 208 00:13:23,689 --> 00:13:28,241 Each company would have probably 30 pages. 209 00:13:28,241 --> 00:13:30,137 I got all these and spread them out 210 00:13:30,137 --> 00:13:32,413 slowly on the floor of the newsroom to try 211 00:13:32,413 --> 00:13:35,241 and add up how much debt the company had. 212 00:13:35,241 --> 00:13:40,655 ♪♪ 213 00:13:40,655 --> 00:13:42,655 We had to work out what was owned by what 214 00:13:42,655 --> 00:13:45,103 because only then could you work out 215 00:13:45,103 --> 00:13:47,620 how the debt was represented. 216 00:13:47,620 --> 00:13:51,137 Many of them with peculiar share ownership structures. 217 00:13:51,137 --> 00:13:54,862 I would say like Russian dolls, but that makes it too neat. 218 00:13:54,862 --> 00:13:56,724 These were all over the place. 219 00:13:56,724 --> 00:13:59,103 It's like someone has tidied up a toddler's room 220 00:13:59,103 --> 00:14:02,206 and just put the toys randomly into different drawers 221 00:14:02,206 --> 00:14:04,275 in order to clear things up really quickly. 222 00:14:04,275 --> 00:14:06,862 It was such an odd patchwork, 223 00:14:06,862 --> 00:14:09,586 but then at the top were constructions that were, 224 00:14:09,586 --> 00:14:12,965 I think, we can assume, done very carefully 225 00:14:12,965 --> 00:14:14,448 that really made it very, very hard 226 00:14:14,448 --> 00:14:16,448 to work out what was going on financially. 227 00:14:16,448 --> 00:14:20,793 This really was not a conventional business empire. 228 00:14:23,862 --> 00:14:26,275 Everyone knew about Maxwell Communications, 229 00:14:26,275 --> 00:14:28,068 all the bombast Maxwell brought to that 230 00:14:28,068 --> 00:14:30,758 and Mirror Group Newspapers, which had just floated. 231 00:14:30,758 --> 00:14:34,241 But behind that was this web of 800 private companies. 232 00:14:34,241 --> 00:14:36,586 And I knew I had to get the numbers right, 233 00:14:36,586 --> 00:14:39,862 mapping and then re-mapping all these companies 234 00:14:39,862 --> 00:14:41,931 and then adding up the debt. 235 00:14:41,931 --> 00:14:47,620 ♪♪ 236 00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:50,241 But what became clear very quickly 237 00:14:50,241 --> 00:14:52,275 was that I was looking at numbers 238 00:14:52,275 --> 00:14:54,689 that implied the real possibility 239 00:14:54,689 --> 00:14:57,275 that the whole lot was going to go down. 240 00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:05,413 And then it flushed up that Maxwell missing at sea. 241 00:15:05,413 --> 00:15:08,586 And I felt the kind of rising excitement of realising 242 00:15:08,586 --> 00:15:12,344 that I had a really full picture of this secretive world 243 00:15:12,344 --> 00:15:13,689 that people didn't know about 244 00:15:13,689 --> 00:15:15,931 in Robert Maxwell at just the point 245 00:15:15,931 --> 00:15:20,344 when everyone was demanding to know exactly that. 246 00:15:20,344 --> 00:15:22,620 And I was ready to go public. 247 00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:29,034 ♪♪ 248 00:15:29,034 --> 00:15:31,000 -How much do we really know 249 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,103 about the state of the Maxwell financial empire? 250 00:15:34,103 --> 00:15:36,275 -It's an extremely complicated empire. 251 00:15:36,275 --> 00:15:39,275 After a long investigation, we've published tomorrow 252 00:15:39,275 --> 00:15:41,689 that we think he has nearly 253 00:15:41,689 --> 00:15:43,862 three quarters of £1 billion of debt 254 00:15:43,862 --> 00:15:46,103 in the private companies on top of the debt 255 00:15:46,103 --> 00:15:47,655 in the public companies. 256 00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:50,344 That means after £1 billion of sales of assets 257 00:15:50,344 --> 00:15:53,344 and businesses this year, the total Maxwell empire 258 00:15:53,344 --> 00:15:56,448 still has over £2 billion of debt. 259 00:15:56,448 --> 00:16:00,000 -The death of Robert Maxwell raises fundamental questions 260 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,344 about the future of his huge empire. 261 00:16:02,344 --> 00:16:05,482 Some city analysts say he was the only person 262 00:16:05,482 --> 00:16:07,793 who knew the ins and outs of his businesses. 263 00:16:07,793 --> 00:16:11,344 The sons who've taken over have been groomed by their father 264 00:16:11,344 --> 00:16:12,931 and, while less flamboyant, 265 00:16:12,931 --> 00:16:15,310 are determined to continue his traditions. 266 00:16:15,310 --> 00:16:17,896 But how will the empire fare under them? 267 00:16:17,896 --> 00:16:19,379 -Members of the Maxwell family 268 00:16:19,379 --> 00:16:21,448 have been meeting financial advisers this morning 269 00:16:21,448 --> 00:16:24,241 to plan the future of the publishing empire. 270 00:16:24,241 --> 00:16:26,310 -Personal business, and the fact is, you know, 271 00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:29,275 I'm clearly immensely saddened. 272 00:16:29,275 --> 00:16:31,103 Some of the events have been extremely shocking. 273 00:16:31,103 --> 00:16:33,068 I lost my father, so I would say that 274 00:16:33,068 --> 00:16:36,034 it's a combination of events that I wouldn't believe 275 00:16:36,034 --> 00:16:37,655 if I read it in a novel. 276 00:16:37,655 --> 00:16:40,413 -Kevin and Ian Maxwell, at that point, were very much seen 277 00:16:40,413 --> 00:16:43,068 as the brave sons trying to cope with this loss. 278 00:16:43,068 --> 00:16:45,103 And everyone was wondering 279 00:16:45,103 --> 00:16:47,275 can the boys manage to turn it around, 280 00:16:47,275 --> 00:16:49,137 can they sell off bits here and there 281 00:16:49,137 --> 00:16:52,655 and just pay down the debt? 282 00:16:52,655 --> 00:16:53,862 And then the full picture 283 00:16:53,862 --> 00:16:56,586 began to emerge of just how bad it was. 284 00:16:56,586 --> 00:16:58,034 [ Siren wailing ] 285 00:16:58,034 --> 00:16:59,448 -Tonight, a police van 286 00:16:59,448 --> 00:17:01,620 pulled out of Maxwell headquarters. 287 00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:04,793 At the end of the day, dramatic even by the standards 288 00:17:04,793 --> 00:17:06,793 of the newspaper world. 289 00:17:06,793 --> 00:17:11,896 ♪♪ 290 00:17:11,896 --> 00:17:14,344 All day, detectives had crawled through offices 291 00:17:14,344 --> 00:17:18,103 where once Robert Maxwell sat and ran his businesses. 292 00:17:18,103 --> 00:17:26,482 ♪♪ 293 00:17:26,482 --> 00:17:28,758 -I remember the Serious Fraud Office 294 00:17:28,758 --> 00:17:31,241 coming in very well. 295 00:17:31,241 --> 00:17:34,862 I walked in there one morning, and to my horror, 296 00:17:34,862 --> 00:17:38,482 there were these great big brutes of guys with a huge, 297 00:17:38,482 --> 00:17:40,517 great big screwdriver, biggest screwdriver 298 00:17:40,517 --> 00:17:44,758 I've ever seen, levering open filing cabinets. 299 00:17:44,758 --> 00:17:47,241 And I said to them, "Excuse me, I've got keys." 300 00:17:47,241 --> 00:17:49,551 I was horrified, and they just said to me, 301 00:17:49,551 --> 00:17:52,620 "We won't be needing those," and just carried on opening them up. 302 00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:55,413 They were thugs. They were awful. I hated them. 303 00:17:55,413 --> 00:17:59,206 It was -- the whole thing turned really nasty after that. 304 00:17:59,206 --> 00:18:10,482 ♪♪ 305 00:18:10,482 --> 00:18:14,137 [ Sirens wailing in distance ] 306 00:18:14,137 --> 00:18:21,103 ♪♪ 307 00:18:21,103 --> 00:18:27,896 ♪♪ 308 00:18:27,896 --> 00:18:30,689 -You told me that you love to be anonymous 309 00:18:30,689 --> 00:18:34,206 and you love the fact that not everybody really knows 310 00:18:34,206 --> 00:18:36,275 who you are in New York. 311 00:18:36,275 --> 00:18:38,620 -It's great. I can -- I have my friends 312 00:18:38,620 --> 00:18:41,448 and I can live my life and people don't come up 313 00:18:41,448 --> 00:18:43,517 and say, "So, how you feeling," you know? 314 00:18:43,517 --> 00:18:45,482 "So, you're okay? How you doing?" 315 00:18:45,482 --> 00:18:48,137 It's, I mean, other people's lives 316 00:18:48,137 --> 00:18:50,379 are very interesting, too. I like to have the opportunity 317 00:18:50,379 --> 00:18:52,034 to ask them questions. I don't always like to be 318 00:18:52,034 --> 00:18:54,965 the one that people are asking the questions of. 319 00:18:54,965 --> 00:18:58,137 -Now, there were so many publications about your father. 320 00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:01,275 I saw a picture of you and your father and Queen Elizabeth. 321 00:19:01,275 --> 00:19:03,448 And of course, you know, you were the youngest, 322 00:19:03,448 --> 00:19:06,586 you were the closest one to him. 323 00:19:06,586 --> 00:19:09,379 There is little girl, like, suddenly to go 324 00:19:09,379 --> 00:19:11,896 to another -- a different reality at all. 325 00:19:11,896 --> 00:19:14,000 I mean -- -It's changed. 326 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,413 Nothing's changed. 327 00:19:15,413 --> 00:19:16,965 I don't feel diminished at all. 328 00:19:16,965 --> 00:19:21,206 I'm extremely sad that my father is no longer here, 329 00:19:21,206 --> 00:19:25,103 but I don't feel in any way smaller or lesser 330 00:19:25,103 --> 00:19:27,241 than what I was before. 331 00:19:27,241 --> 00:19:30,103 I'm me. 332 00:19:30,103 --> 00:19:33,275 I'm healthy. I'm very lucky. 333 00:19:33,275 --> 00:19:35,448 And survival means many different things 334 00:19:35,448 --> 00:19:36,965 to different people. 335 00:19:36,965 --> 00:19:38,655 Survival, in my case, 336 00:19:38,655 --> 00:19:41,689 means getting up in the morning and figuring out 337 00:19:41,689 --> 00:19:44,379 a new life, and smiling and being happy 338 00:19:44,379 --> 00:19:46,517 and looking at the positive side of things. 339 00:19:46,517 --> 00:19:48,448 Life is sad. It's always very sad 340 00:19:48,448 --> 00:19:52,482 when you lose a parent, but you have to go on. 341 00:19:52,482 --> 00:19:55,379 I'd like to think that I'll be able to do something positive, 342 00:19:55,379 --> 00:19:58,620 and I can't say what it is right now 343 00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:01,103 because I'm working on it, and until I've done it, 344 00:20:01,103 --> 00:20:05,034 then everything is just words again. 345 00:20:05,034 --> 00:20:08,103 -Don't you feel insecure, scared from the future? 346 00:20:08,103 --> 00:20:10,344 -No. I'm lucky I get to start again. 347 00:20:11,793 --> 00:20:19,482 ♪♪ 348 00:20:19,482 --> 00:20:26,896 ♪♪ 349 00:20:26,896 --> 00:20:29,448 -During the '90s, when I was in New York, 350 00:20:29,448 --> 00:20:32,310 a friend invited me to a party 351 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:36,413 he was having at his house in SoHo downtown, 352 00:20:36,413 --> 00:20:39,241 and there were lots of people there when I arrived, 353 00:20:39,241 --> 00:20:44,310 and I went to sit at this long table and there was Ghislaine. 354 00:20:45,137 --> 00:20:48,103 We looked at each other and we were like, 355 00:20:48,103 --> 00:20:50,379 "Oh, yes, we've met before." 356 00:20:53,896 --> 00:20:57,068 I'd met her a year previously in London. 357 00:20:57,068 --> 00:20:58,551 The thing that marked Ghislaine 358 00:20:58,551 --> 00:21:03,068 was how extraordinarily friendly she was, 359 00:21:03,068 --> 00:21:07,758 how instantly she said her name, said, 360 00:21:07,758 --> 00:21:10,758 "You know, what's your name? I'm Ghislaine." 361 00:21:10,758 --> 00:21:13,551 She made you feel included. 362 00:21:13,551 --> 00:21:16,896 She was very popular because she was charming 363 00:21:16,896 --> 00:21:20,965 and she was opinionated and she was funny. 364 00:21:20,965 --> 00:21:28,275 ♪♪ 365 00:21:28,275 --> 00:21:29,896 This was a very different Ghislaine. 366 00:21:29,896 --> 00:21:32,689 She was a shrunken version 367 00:21:32,689 --> 00:21:36,517 of the person that I'd met the year previously. 368 00:21:36,517 --> 00:21:40,586 Like she couldn't quite believe what had happened to her. 369 00:21:43,620 --> 00:21:46,275 -I hate to speculate about your father. 370 00:21:46,275 --> 00:21:48,517 What you think? What happened to him? 371 00:21:51,413 --> 00:21:55,310 -You'll never know, so there'll never be any, you know -- 372 00:21:55,310 --> 00:21:57,724 It's one of those things. Nobody was there, nobody saw, 373 00:21:57,724 --> 00:22:01,724 so you'll never be 100% sure of exactly what took place. 374 00:22:01,724 --> 00:22:04,620 The only thing I'm sure of is that he did not commit suicide. 375 00:22:04,620 --> 00:22:07,413 -That's your 100% true. -No question. 376 00:22:12,275 --> 00:22:14,551 -I remember her inviting me over to her apartment 377 00:22:14,551 --> 00:22:17,344 and she was talking about her father's death. 378 00:22:17,344 --> 00:22:21,448 She was convinced that he had been murdered. 379 00:22:21,448 --> 00:22:24,862 The perception then, which she seemed to encourage, 380 00:22:24,862 --> 00:22:29,793 was that she was suddenly 381 00:22:29,793 --> 00:22:33,931 extraordinarily well connected, but kind of destitute. 382 00:22:33,931 --> 00:22:36,344 That there was no money, 383 00:22:36,344 --> 00:22:39,482 that everything had been 384 00:22:39,482 --> 00:22:43,206 kind of plunged into chaos with his death. 385 00:22:43,206 --> 00:22:47,413 And she was reading off the names of people she was talking, 386 00:22:47,413 --> 00:22:50,206 including Henry Kissinger, who had been asking about 387 00:22:50,206 --> 00:22:53,482 how she was going, you know, how she was going to make it 388 00:22:53,482 --> 00:22:56,068 through this extraordinary situation. 389 00:22:56,068 --> 00:23:00,586 And she said, "I told Henry, just watch in a year. 390 00:23:00,586 --> 00:23:04,137 Come back, watch this space. See what's happening. 391 00:23:04,137 --> 00:23:06,379 I don't know what it's going to be, 392 00:23:06,379 --> 00:23:08,034 but it's going to be interesting." 393 00:23:08,034 --> 00:23:19,482 ♪♪ 394 00:23:19,482 --> 00:23:21,482 -Here, the Serious Fraud Office 395 00:23:21,482 --> 00:23:23,896 has begun an investigation into the management 396 00:23:23,896 --> 00:23:26,620 of pension funds at Mirror Group Newspapers. 397 00:23:26,620 --> 00:23:29,000 It's feared that around £300 million 398 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,724 of pensioners' money could be missing. 399 00:23:35,482 --> 00:23:37,068 -Mirror Group workers turned up 400 00:23:37,068 --> 00:23:39,034 at their Holborn offices this morning 401 00:23:39,034 --> 00:23:41,551 not knowing whether the pensions they had contributed to 402 00:23:41,551 --> 00:23:45,103 for years would ever be paid in full or in part. 403 00:23:45,103 --> 00:23:47,275 -This is a major scandal, 404 00:23:47,275 --> 00:23:49,344 and the money will have to be accounted for. 405 00:23:49,344 --> 00:23:51,344 Pensioners have paid for their moneys 406 00:23:51,344 --> 00:23:54,137 and we expect to see it returned to us. 407 00:23:54,137 --> 00:23:58,689 ♪♪ 408 00:23:58,689 --> 00:24:00,862 -News of the shortfall in the Mirror Group's 409 00:24:00,862 --> 00:24:03,965 pension fund has now pushed the Maxwell Empire 410 00:24:03,965 --> 00:24:05,620 to the very brink of collapse. 411 00:24:05,620 --> 00:24:08,620 Last night, Robert Maxwell's sons Ian and Kevin 412 00:24:08,620 --> 00:24:11,793 resigned from their positions as chairman of the empire's 413 00:24:11,793 --> 00:24:14,206 two pillars, Mirror Group Newspapers 414 00:24:14,206 --> 00:24:17,137 and Maxwell Communications Corporation. 415 00:24:21,275 --> 00:24:23,758 -Within three or four days, 416 00:24:23,758 --> 00:24:28,689 the headline was Maxwell had stolen all the pension money. 417 00:24:28,689 --> 00:24:33,206 The whole thing was just more surreal than surreal. 418 00:24:33,206 --> 00:24:38,172 ♪♪ 419 00:24:38,172 --> 00:24:43,241 -And what became clear very quickly was that it was a fraud 420 00:24:43,241 --> 00:24:45,862 and that it had happened very, very fast -- 421 00:24:45,862 --> 00:24:48,655 really, most of it within the last 10 months 422 00:24:48,655 --> 00:24:51,620 of Maxwell's life. 423 00:24:51,620 --> 00:24:54,413 People wanted to know where the money had gone, 424 00:24:54,413 --> 00:24:58,620 how this could have happened, and who was responsible. 425 00:25:01,103 --> 00:25:03,137 -Now... 426 00:25:03,137 --> 00:25:05,655 ladies and gentlemen, 427 00:25:05,655 --> 00:25:10,206 inside here, no kidding, is exactly 428 00:25:10,206 --> 00:25:15,241 £1 million in cash. 429 00:25:15,241 --> 00:25:17,620 Isn't that nice? [ Applause ] 430 00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:19,206 -The network of Maxwell companies 431 00:25:19,206 --> 00:25:21,172 was very, very complicated, 432 00:25:21,172 --> 00:25:24,413 partly with a view, I think, to keeping the world at bay 433 00:25:24,413 --> 00:25:26,620 and not letting people see what's going on. 434 00:25:26,620 --> 00:25:29,000 The actual fraud was very, very simple. 435 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,448 It's hard to get away from the statement that 436 00:25:30,448 --> 00:25:32,379 Maxwell basically just took the money. 437 00:25:32,379 --> 00:25:34,551 -Choose any package at all you like. 438 00:25:34,551 --> 00:25:36,068 Now, you're happy with that packet? 439 00:25:36,068 --> 00:25:37,275 It's heavy, isn't it? 440 00:25:37,275 --> 00:25:39,310 Now, do you know why that's heavy? 441 00:25:39,310 --> 00:25:41,034 And they put it back. 442 00:25:41,034 --> 00:25:42,310 [ Laughter ] 443 00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:44,103 You've got to watch. 444 00:25:44,103 --> 00:25:45,862 -Maxwell's companies had massive debts, 445 00:25:45,862 --> 00:25:47,275 billions of pounds. 446 00:25:47,275 --> 00:25:49,241 He was really desperate for cash, 447 00:25:49,241 --> 00:25:50,931 selling businesses where he could. 448 00:25:50,931 --> 00:25:52,586 But it wasn't enough. 449 00:25:52,586 --> 00:25:54,586 What he did in the following year 450 00:25:54,586 --> 00:25:58,275 was to just grab big blocks of cash 451 00:25:58,275 --> 00:26:00,655 that were sitting there, or pension fund shares 452 00:26:00,655 --> 00:26:02,620 that could be sold very quickly, or the cash 453 00:26:02,620 --> 00:26:06,000 that was in the bank accounts of his public companies 454 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,379 and take it. 455 00:26:07,379 --> 00:26:10,793 -There it is, £1 million. 456 00:26:10,793 --> 00:26:16,379 And we're going to lower it into this Perspex box here. 457 00:26:16,379 --> 00:26:19,448 -The fact that he had powers to do that is shocking. 458 00:26:19,448 --> 00:26:22,000 But he did have the power at that point 459 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,586 to remove the pension shares and still legally use it 460 00:26:26,586 --> 00:26:29,586 to pay off the bankers of his private companies 461 00:26:29,586 --> 00:26:32,172 who were beginning to panic on the assurance 462 00:26:32,172 --> 00:26:34,034 that the money would come back. 463 00:26:34,034 --> 00:26:35,827 That never happened. 464 00:26:35,827 --> 00:26:37,448 -So what I want to know is this. 465 00:26:37,448 --> 00:26:40,241 How the dickens did we get this 466 00:26:40,241 --> 00:26:41,689 back inside it? 467 00:26:41,689 --> 00:26:47,758 As large as life and still full of the money. 468 00:26:47,758 --> 00:26:49,448 There it is. 469 00:26:49,448 --> 00:26:51,655 Isn't that good? Whoa! 470 00:26:51,655 --> 00:26:54,068 And I've always wanted to do this. 471 00:26:54,068 --> 00:26:55,758 [ Cheers and applause ] 472 00:26:55,758 --> 00:26:57,103 Amazing. 473 00:26:57,103 --> 00:26:59,482 -The problem for a lot of the people dealing with Maxwell, 474 00:26:59,482 --> 00:27:01,275 dealing really closely with Maxwell 475 00:27:01,275 --> 00:27:02,896 for the last year of his life, 476 00:27:02,896 --> 00:27:06,206 was that they were like the blind man and the elephant. 477 00:27:06,206 --> 00:27:07,724 They could see a part of it 478 00:27:07,724 --> 00:27:10,103 or they could feel a part of it, if you like, 479 00:27:10,103 --> 00:27:12,344 but they couldn't see the whole thing. 480 00:27:14,586 --> 00:27:16,482 And those who had their suspicions 481 00:27:16,482 --> 00:27:18,517 were struggling to stop him. 482 00:27:22,517 --> 00:27:27,344 -Lawrence was finance director of Mirror Group Newspapers. 483 00:27:27,344 --> 00:27:30,620 He was a gentle man. 484 00:27:30,620 --> 00:27:32,172 You couldn't have an argument with him. 485 00:27:32,172 --> 00:27:36,448 He just was not that way inclined. 486 00:27:36,448 --> 00:27:41,000 Some people thought he was shy, very determined, dogged. 487 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,896 {\an8}There was no way if, you know, 488 00:27:42,896 --> 00:27:45,344 {\an8}if I asked him to do something and he hadn't planned to do it, 489 00:27:45,344 --> 00:27:47,586 {\an8}then there was no way it got done. 490 00:27:51,034 --> 00:27:54,862 I think everyone found it very difficult working for Maxwell. 491 00:27:54,862 --> 00:27:57,206 He had everybody at loggerheads 492 00:27:57,206 --> 00:28:01,034 because if if everybody is at loggerheads with each other, 493 00:28:01,034 --> 00:28:04,896 they're not going to threaten him. 494 00:28:04,896 --> 00:28:08,586 -This is for private purposes, not for... 495 00:28:08,586 --> 00:28:11,206 [ Indistinct conversation ] 496 00:28:11,206 --> 00:28:14,758 ♪♪ 497 00:28:14,758 --> 00:28:18,241 -I heard it described as a bit like the leader of a wolf pack. 498 00:28:18,241 --> 00:28:22,137 ♪♪ 499 00:28:22,137 --> 00:28:25,344 Lawrence was always wary of Maxwell. 500 00:28:25,344 --> 00:28:27,413 But he began to suspect something was wrong 501 00:28:27,413 --> 00:28:31,206 when the Mirror was floated on the stock market. 502 00:28:31,206 --> 00:28:33,413 -On May 3rd, the Mirror Group will cease 503 00:28:33,413 --> 00:28:36,724 to be a private company of media baron Robert Maxwell 504 00:28:36,724 --> 00:28:39,724 and expects to raise £250 million 505 00:28:39,724 --> 00:28:43,965 by selling its shares to investors and institutions. 506 00:28:43,965 --> 00:28:46,448 -Whilst Maxwell continued his desperate efforts 507 00:28:46,448 --> 00:28:50,448 to raise cash, Finance Director Lawrence Guest 508 00:28:50,448 --> 00:28:54,172 noticed something worrying. 509 00:28:54,172 --> 00:28:59,206 £38 million missing from the accounts. 510 00:29:01,586 --> 00:29:06,413 He shared his concern on late night calls with his wife. 511 00:29:31,103 --> 00:29:33,965 [ Receiver clicks ] 512 00:29:33,965 --> 00:29:36,344 -But what Lawrence didn't know 513 00:29:36,344 --> 00:29:40,620 was Maxwell was already one step ahead of him. 514 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:43,103 -I was head of security for Maxwell. 515 00:29:43,103 --> 00:29:46,827 {\an8}He had an expression that trust was like virginity. 516 00:29:46,827 --> 00:29:48,793 {\an8}You only lost it once. 517 00:29:48,793 --> 00:29:53,310 {\an8}And certainly, if a person was loyal, 518 00:29:53,310 --> 00:29:55,482 he repaid that loyalty. 519 00:29:55,482 --> 00:30:00,137 And he could be quite ruthless to people that were not giving 520 00:30:00,137 --> 00:30:03,655 their all for him or were disloyal. 521 00:30:03,655 --> 00:30:07,379 And he asked whether or not we could record 522 00:30:07,379 --> 00:30:10,344 the telephone conversations to test to find out 523 00:30:10,344 --> 00:30:13,310 whether or not this person was being disloyal to him. 524 00:30:13,310 --> 00:30:15,655 And he needed to have -- he needed to find out. 525 00:30:15,655 --> 00:30:17,517 As it turned out, the Finance Director, 526 00:30:17,517 --> 00:30:20,448 Lawrence Guest, was one of the targets. 527 00:30:20,448 --> 00:30:22,241 [ Static ] 528 00:30:22,241 --> 00:30:25,172 [ Telephone rings ] 529 00:30:52,172 --> 00:30:54,310 [ Static ] 530 00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:57,724 [ Telephone rings ] 531 00:30:57,724 --> 00:31:00,482 -Maxwell said to Lawrence, 532 00:31:00,482 --> 00:31:03,517 "You don't need to worry anymore because it was out on loan" 533 00:31:03,517 --> 00:31:04,896 and that it would be coming back, 534 00:31:04,896 --> 00:31:06,655 but it didn't ever come back. 535 00:31:06,655 --> 00:31:10,793 And although he mentioned it to auditors and merchant bankers, 536 00:31:10,793 --> 00:31:15,827 nobody would -- didn't want to know, I guess is the answer. 537 00:31:15,827 --> 00:31:17,586 You know, he was told, "We're not to worry. 538 00:31:17,586 --> 00:31:20,586 It's not really your -- not your problem." 539 00:31:20,586 --> 00:31:23,034 But as a finance director for PRC, 540 00:31:23,034 --> 00:31:25,482 he certainly felt, with shareholders to account to, 541 00:31:25,482 --> 00:31:30,827 he certainly felt that it was his responsibility and problem. 542 00:31:30,827 --> 00:31:35,000 Life got very unreal, is about the only thing I can say. 543 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,724 Highly stressful. 544 00:31:36,724 --> 00:31:39,689 And Lawrence was obviously highly stressed 545 00:31:39,689 --> 00:31:41,827 and couldn't and didn't really want to believe, 546 00:31:41,827 --> 00:31:44,172 you know, what was happening 547 00:31:44,172 --> 00:31:47,517 or what he suspected was happening. 548 00:31:47,517 --> 00:31:49,620 And what he suspected was that Maxwell 549 00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:52,206 was taking money out of the Mirror 550 00:31:52,206 --> 00:31:54,827 to pay off debts in his private companies. 551 00:31:54,827 --> 00:31:56,827 But he couldn't prove it. 552 00:31:56,827 --> 00:32:04,793 ♪♪ 553 00:32:20,862 --> 00:32:25,310 ♪♪ 554 00:32:25,310 --> 00:32:27,482 -Lawrence kept on knocking on his door 555 00:32:27,482 --> 00:32:29,896 and banging away and saying, you know, 556 00:32:29,896 --> 00:32:31,931 "What's happening to this money? 557 00:32:31,931 --> 00:32:33,827 Belongs to the Mirror." 558 00:32:33,827 --> 00:32:38,689 In the face of, really, you know, a tyrant. 559 00:32:38,689 --> 00:32:40,827 But without success. 560 00:32:43,965 --> 00:32:46,379 He felt time was running out. 561 00:32:46,379 --> 00:32:49,689 So Lawrence wrote a memo to his fellow executives. 562 00:32:51,793 --> 00:32:53,896 {\an8}-I am now convinced that MGN resources 563 00:32:53,896 --> 00:32:57,034 {\an8}have been used to support other parts of the group, 564 00:32:57,034 --> 00:32:59,172 {\an8}but I have no proof. 565 00:32:59,172 --> 00:33:01,413 {\an8}I think that I frightened the Chairman, 566 00:33:01,413 --> 00:33:04,689 but my main concern must be to get the money back. 567 00:33:04,689 --> 00:33:08,482 I think I am in a situation that nothing more will flow out, 568 00:33:08,482 --> 00:33:12,241 although I don't have the mechanism to stop it. 569 00:33:12,241 --> 00:33:15,793 ♪♪ 570 00:33:15,793 --> 00:33:18,413 [ Horns honking ] 571 00:33:18,413 --> 00:33:23,310 -But what no one could see was that the missing £38 million 572 00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:26,655 was just the tip of the iceberg. 573 00:33:26,655 --> 00:33:31,482 Maxwell would go on to plunder more than £400 million, 574 00:33:31,482 --> 00:33:35,655 and nobody had the power to stop him. 575 00:33:35,655 --> 00:33:37,620 -The man I was working for told me 576 00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:40,827 {\an8}that they had had instructions from Maxwell 577 00:33:40,827 --> 00:33:46,103 {\an8}that the directors were not to meet each other 578 00:33:46,103 --> 00:33:48,310 {\an8}unless there was a Maxwell present, 579 00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:51,827 i.e. Kevin or Ian or himself. 580 00:33:51,827 --> 00:33:56,448 And so my bosses had these clandestine meetings, 581 00:33:56,448 --> 00:34:00,793 and I knew they were passing notes around and not talking 582 00:34:00,793 --> 00:34:03,206 because I found a few notes in the bin afterwards. 583 00:34:03,206 --> 00:34:07,620 One of them I remember reading said, "He knows that we know." 584 00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:14,482 ♪♪ 585 00:34:14,482 --> 00:34:16,448 By that time, we all realised 586 00:34:16,448 --> 00:34:18,655 that there was something going on. 587 00:34:18,655 --> 00:34:21,689 He wasn't quite as he used to be. 588 00:34:21,689 --> 00:34:26,620 He looked a bit dishevelled and a bit unkempt. 589 00:34:26,620 --> 00:34:30,344 I noticed a couple of times he had a button off his shirt 590 00:34:30,344 --> 00:34:32,310 and his eating habits 591 00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:35,586 were really, really not very nice. 592 00:34:35,586 --> 00:34:39,172 He just seemed to think he could do what he liked. 593 00:34:41,482 --> 00:34:45,310 He was becoming very suspicious. 594 00:34:45,310 --> 00:34:47,517 He wasn't trusting anyone. 595 00:34:47,517 --> 00:34:52,172 I think it just reflects on how paranoid he was becoming. 596 00:34:52,172 --> 00:35:01,793 ♪♪ 597 00:35:01,793 --> 00:35:04,586 [ Applause ] 598 00:35:04,586 --> 00:35:07,827 -At the Labour Party Conference in Brighton that year, 599 00:35:07,827 --> 00:35:11,000 Lawrence was taken aside by one of the joint managing directors 600 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,172 and warned that it was advisable for Lawrence 601 00:35:15,172 --> 00:35:18,172 and not to be travelling on public transport 602 00:35:18,172 --> 00:35:22,344 and to take different routes to the office by car every day, 603 00:35:22,344 --> 00:35:25,000 not to -- not to have a pattern. 604 00:35:26,827 --> 00:35:31,758 ♪♪ 605 00:35:31,758 --> 00:35:33,827 It was very frightening. 606 00:35:33,827 --> 00:35:41,689 ♪♪ 607 00:35:41,689 --> 00:35:45,275 And then suddenly, 608 00:35:45,275 --> 00:35:47,758 he disappeared. 609 00:35:47,758 --> 00:35:53,310 ♪♪ 610 00:35:53,310 --> 00:35:55,310 By the time it came to the 5th of November, 611 00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:57,896 it was Lawrence or it was Maxwell. 612 00:35:57,896 --> 00:36:00,758 That was how I felt. 613 00:36:00,758 --> 00:36:05,724 You know, one or the other of them had to go, 614 00:36:05,724 --> 00:36:08,482 and to this day, 615 00:36:08,482 --> 00:36:12,000 5th of November, when I hear fireworks, 616 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,275 takes me straight back. 617 00:36:18,275 --> 00:36:20,344 Yeah, to the relief. 618 00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:32,827 ♪♪ 619 00:36:32,827 --> 00:36:44,413 ♪♪ 620 00:36:44,413 --> 00:36:46,379 -Do you feel there is a terrible hatred 621 00:36:46,379 --> 00:36:48,000 against your family in England? 622 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,413 Because, I mean, people are really being cruel right now. 623 00:36:53,827 --> 00:36:56,206 -I'm not in England, so I don't know exactly. 624 00:36:56,206 --> 00:36:57,965 It's very difficult for me to gauge 625 00:36:57,965 --> 00:36:59,931 what the feelings are there, 626 00:36:59,931 --> 00:37:02,827 but I'm sure that there are people who feel that way. 627 00:37:02,827 --> 00:37:05,206 -Two years ago, the name Maxwell was like 628 00:37:05,206 --> 00:37:06,793 power or money, everything. 629 00:37:06,793 --> 00:37:08,034 -What do you feel right now 630 00:37:08,034 --> 00:37:09,482 when you're carrying this name? 631 00:37:09,482 --> 00:37:11,896 -I don't know. You tell me what you think. 632 00:37:11,896 --> 00:37:15,241 I'm proud of it. 633 00:37:15,241 --> 00:37:17,655 -I think I would still feel like a little bit anger 634 00:37:17,655 --> 00:37:20,551 that my dad didn't even leave me one -- 635 00:37:20,551 --> 00:37:23,275 one security on this world. 636 00:37:23,275 --> 00:37:25,896 -He was never going to leave us any money anyway 637 00:37:25,896 --> 00:37:27,448 in the first place. 638 00:37:27,448 --> 00:37:28,793 -I mean, do you really believe 639 00:37:28,793 --> 00:37:30,344 that he didn't intend to leave you money? 640 00:37:30,344 --> 00:37:33,310 -No. -Why is that? 641 00:37:33,310 --> 00:37:35,758 -Just my father believes that 642 00:37:35,758 --> 00:37:38,068 you got to make your own way in life. 643 00:37:38,068 --> 00:37:45,482 ♪♪ 644 00:37:45,482 --> 00:37:47,379 -These were sort of early days for Ghislaine 645 00:37:47,379 --> 00:37:49,620 living in New York. 646 00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:56,275 {\an8}The only people I saw her with at the time were 647 00:37:56,275 --> 00:37:57,965 {\an8}bright Brits, 648 00:37:57,965 --> 00:38:02,310 {\an8}but by the time I saw her next, 649 00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:05,793 she told me that she had just met someone 650 00:38:05,793 --> 00:38:07,517 staggeringly important. 651 00:38:09,482 --> 00:38:11,068 Jeffrey Epstein. 652 00:38:11,068 --> 00:38:13,586 And they were dating. 653 00:38:15,655 --> 00:38:19,172 And she told me that she was not only dating him, 654 00:38:19,172 --> 00:38:21,310 but she was working for him 655 00:38:21,310 --> 00:38:26,206 and that her job included running all of his properties. 656 00:38:29,827 --> 00:38:32,758 The first thing she wanted you always to know about Jeffrey 657 00:38:32,758 --> 00:38:34,827 was that he managed people's money 658 00:38:34,827 --> 00:38:36,275 and he would not take anyone 659 00:38:36,275 --> 00:38:38,413 who had less than $1 billion. 660 00:38:38,413 --> 00:38:40,620 That was the kind of shorthand to let you know 661 00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:46,827 that he was fantastically brilliant and talented. 662 00:38:46,827 --> 00:38:55,206 ♪♪ 663 00:38:55,206 --> 00:38:59,241 After the prospect of financial ruin after her father's death, 664 00:38:59,241 --> 00:39:02,517 Jeffery represented 665 00:39:02,517 --> 00:39:07,827 access to private planes and yachts and wealth, 666 00:39:07,827 --> 00:39:13,344 and she would do anything in her power to please him. 667 00:39:13,344 --> 00:39:19,000 But also it seemed like a bizarre echo of the dynamic 668 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,103 between Ghislaine and her father 669 00:39:21,103 --> 00:39:24,379 that she was acting out with Epstein. 670 00:39:24,379 --> 00:39:27,793 -Did she ever tell you about how she met Jeffrey? 671 00:39:27,793 --> 00:39:31,310 -She never told me how she met Jeffrey Epstein. 672 00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:36,793 And of course, we're all kind of dying to know now. 673 00:39:42,620 --> 00:39:46,793 {\an8}-There is a photo taken, 674 00:39:46,793 --> 00:39:49,344 {\an8}I believe, in the plaza ballroom 675 00:39:49,344 --> 00:39:51,655 {\an8}of Ghislaine, 676 00:39:51,655 --> 00:39:54,827 and sitting next to Ghislaine at dinner 677 00:39:54,827 --> 00:39:58,655 is Jeffrey Epstein. 678 00:39:58,655 --> 00:40:02,689 And that picture was taken just under three weeks 679 00:40:02,689 --> 00:40:06,310 after her father died. 680 00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:10,482 Ghislaine is looking at Jeffrey Epstein adoringly. 681 00:40:12,413 --> 00:40:16,655 They don't look like two people who've just met. 682 00:40:20,344 --> 00:40:23,931 And I think they were already friends, 683 00:40:23,931 --> 00:40:27,448 and that, in fact, Ghislaine went to New York 684 00:40:27,448 --> 00:40:30,103 to see Jeffrey Epstein. 685 00:40:32,344 --> 00:40:35,310 I've always thought to myself that there was a reason 686 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:39,517 why the relationship was kept so secret. 687 00:40:39,517 --> 00:40:42,379 And I think it was in their interests 688 00:40:42,379 --> 00:40:45,655 that this would never get out. 689 00:40:45,655 --> 00:40:48,620 I was working in the city and I had some friends 690 00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:51,068 who worked on Wall Street during that time, 691 00:40:51,068 --> 00:40:55,758 and they heard that Jeffrey Epstein 692 00:40:55,758 --> 00:40:58,103 and Robert Maxwell 693 00:40:58,103 --> 00:41:02,655 had entered into an agreement before Robert Maxwell's death 694 00:41:02,655 --> 00:41:05,482 whereby certain funds had been siphoned off, 695 00:41:05,482 --> 00:41:07,000 because that's what Jeffrey Epstein 696 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,172 was doing at the time. 697 00:41:08,172 --> 00:41:12,275 He was helping very rich people 698 00:41:12,275 --> 00:41:16,965 park their money offshore to avoid tax. 699 00:41:16,965 --> 00:41:18,655 When Robert Maxwell died, 700 00:41:18,655 --> 00:41:20,931 Ghislaine was on the boat in Tenerife, 701 00:41:20,931 --> 00:41:26,413 and I was told that she found some papers in his bedroom 702 00:41:26,413 --> 00:41:30,206 where the name Jeffrey Epstein came up. 703 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:37,517 Ghislaine gave an instruction to the crew to shred all papers 704 00:41:37,517 --> 00:41:40,862 which mentioned Jeffrey Epstein 705 00:41:40,862 --> 00:41:43,241 and her father's connection to him. 706 00:41:43,241 --> 00:41:50,586 ♪♪ 707 00:41:50,586 --> 00:41:57,655 ♪♪ 708 00:41:57,655 --> 00:41:59,206 -Here, the Serious Fraud Office 709 00:41:59,206 --> 00:42:01,344 is investigating the movement of funds 710 00:42:01,344 --> 00:42:03,586 out of the Maxwell pension funds 711 00:42:03,586 --> 00:42:06,482 after the death of Robert Maxwell. 712 00:42:09,310 --> 00:42:11,448 -What do you say about reports that some of the funds 713 00:42:11,448 --> 00:42:13,000 from the Mirror pension went missing 714 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,517 after your father's death? -I have no comments on that. 715 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,724 -Can you comment on reports 716 00:42:20,724 --> 00:42:24,379 in the paper this morning that moneys were still leaving 717 00:42:24,379 --> 00:42:27,724 the Mirror pension fund after your father died? 718 00:42:27,724 --> 00:42:30,482 -I can't comment on that. Thank you, goodnight. 719 00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:36,482 -As the fraud investigation began to focus on Kevin and Ian, 720 00:42:36,482 --> 00:42:39,137 {\an8}my concern was more whether we were keeping up 721 00:42:39,137 --> 00:42:40,482 {\an8}fast enough with what was happening. 722 00:42:40,482 --> 00:42:45,551 {\an8}There was a sense of drama and momentum. 723 00:42:45,551 --> 00:42:47,689 And then Kevin and Ian were called before 724 00:42:47,689 --> 00:42:49,172 a House of Commons select committee 725 00:42:49,172 --> 00:42:51,068 to answer questions on what they knew 726 00:42:51,068 --> 00:42:53,551 about the missing pension funds. 727 00:42:53,551 --> 00:43:02,000 ♪♪ 728 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,068 -Could I begin our proceedings in thanking both Kevin Maxwell 729 00:43:06,068 --> 00:43:08,413 and Ian Maxwell in coming? 730 00:43:08,413 --> 00:43:10,413 We begin by our witnesses 731 00:43:10,413 --> 00:43:15,310 identifying themselves for the record. 732 00:43:15,310 --> 00:43:19,482 Kevin Maxwell, will you introduce your table? 733 00:43:19,482 --> 00:43:23,034 -Yes, my name is Kevin Maxwell, by profession a publisher. 734 00:43:23,034 --> 00:43:26,310 On my right is Mr. George Carmen, QC. 735 00:43:28,724 --> 00:43:29,793 -I'm Ian Maxwell. 736 00:43:29,793 --> 00:43:33,551 On my left is my counsel, John Jarvis. 737 00:43:33,551 --> 00:43:38,551 -Could you tell the committee which pension trust funds 738 00:43:38,551 --> 00:43:41,586 you belong to and at what period? 739 00:43:42,931 --> 00:43:46,137 [ Indistinct conversation ] 740 00:43:51,862 --> 00:43:53,965 -I decline to answer. 741 00:43:53,965 --> 00:43:55,482 [ Clears throat ] 742 00:43:55,482 --> 00:43:58,689 -Kevin Maxwell, could I ask you the same question? 743 00:43:58,689 --> 00:44:02,034 -Again, the answer will be given by my counsel. 744 00:44:02,034 --> 00:44:05,482 -Position, Mr. Chairman, is, and I repeat it with force, 745 00:44:05,482 --> 00:44:09,310 that we shall not answer any further questions 746 00:44:09,310 --> 00:44:11,896 touching upon the pension funds, 747 00:44:11,896 --> 00:44:16,103 and that position is made plain. 748 00:44:16,103 --> 00:44:17,482 It will not be altered 749 00:44:17,482 --> 00:44:19,689 however many questions this committee poses 750 00:44:19,689 --> 00:44:21,620 this afternoon. 751 00:44:24,482 --> 00:44:30,310 -Kevin and Ian were the two still left standing. 752 00:44:30,310 --> 00:44:32,724 And I'm at home. 753 00:44:32,724 --> 00:44:35,862 I lived in Chelsea, and I got a phone call, 754 00:44:35,862 --> 00:44:39,000 and it said, "The cops are going to go and arrest Kevin. 755 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,310 You know where he lives?" 756 00:44:40,310 --> 00:44:43,448 And so I got off at the crack of dawn 757 00:44:43,448 --> 00:44:46,689 and went straight to Kevin's gate. 758 00:44:46,689 --> 00:44:49,689 And then the cops arrived, plainclothes boys. 759 00:44:49,689 --> 00:44:50,965 "Morning, gentlemen." 760 00:44:50,965 --> 00:44:52,379 And they walked up the path, 761 00:44:52,379 --> 00:44:55,931 and bang, bang, bang, bang, bang on the door. 762 00:44:55,931 --> 00:45:01,482 And Pandora, Kevin's wife, throws open the upstairs window. 763 00:45:01,482 --> 00:45:02,620 [ Window opens ] 764 00:45:02,620 --> 00:45:05,931 -Piss off. He don't get up for an hour. 765 00:45:05,931 --> 00:45:09,241 [ Doorbell ringing ] 766 00:45:09,241 --> 00:45:10,655 I am about to call the police. 767 00:45:10,655 --> 00:45:13,275 -We are the police. Can you open your door? 768 00:45:13,275 --> 00:45:15,068 -[ Laughs ] 769 00:45:15,068 --> 00:45:18,379 So next thing is Kevin's laid out, 770 00:45:18,379 --> 00:45:21,586 you know, and taken away, arrested. 771 00:45:21,586 --> 00:45:23,862 -Hours later at Snow Hill Police Station, 772 00:45:23,862 --> 00:45:25,758 just a few hundred yards from the hub of 773 00:45:25,758 --> 00:45:28,103 the failed Robert Maxwell empire, 774 00:45:28,103 --> 00:45:30,793 the men were charged. 775 00:45:30,793 --> 00:45:34,758 After trial by rumor, a trial by innuendo, 776 00:45:34,758 --> 00:45:37,896 I am really looking forward to being able to 777 00:45:37,896 --> 00:45:41,241 defend myself in a court of law, 778 00:45:41,241 --> 00:45:43,793 where I intend to vigourously 779 00:45:43,793 --> 00:45:48,689 and strenuously contest all and any charges against me. 780 00:45:48,689 --> 00:45:50,137 Thank you. 781 00:45:50,137 --> 00:45:54,103 ♪♪ 782 00:45:54,103 --> 00:45:56,103 -Enough! 783 00:45:56,103 --> 00:45:58,275 Thank you. 784 00:45:58,275 --> 00:46:00,379 [ Camera shutters clicking ] 785 00:46:08,068 --> 00:46:10,827 [ Indistinct conversation ] 786 00:46:10,827 --> 00:46:12,965 -In the run up to the criminal trial, 787 00:46:12,965 --> 00:46:17,379 Kevin Maxwell, like his father before him, turns to the media. 788 00:46:17,379 --> 00:46:20,034 -30 coming on commercial paper. 789 00:46:20,034 --> 00:46:22,896 -He invites cameras behind the scenes 790 00:46:22,896 --> 00:46:25,275 to tell his side of the story. 791 00:46:27,862 --> 00:46:31,137 -The Gallup poll was commissioned by the defence 792 00:46:31,137 --> 00:46:32,724 to provide evidence 793 00:46:32,724 --> 00:46:37,241 of what the public thought about the defendants. 794 00:46:41,137 --> 00:46:42,724 It was deeply shocking to think 795 00:46:42,724 --> 00:46:45,275 that there were just millions of people out there 796 00:46:45,275 --> 00:46:48,034 who thought I was a complete bastard. 797 00:46:48,034 --> 00:46:52,000 I don't think there's any possibility of finding 12 people 798 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,551 who won't have already made their minds up about my father, 799 00:46:56,551 --> 00:46:59,413 who won't already have decided that he's a crook, 800 00:46:59,413 --> 00:47:02,448 who won't be able to come into the court 801 00:47:02,448 --> 00:47:05,379 and put all that stuff out of their minds. 802 00:47:05,379 --> 00:47:07,965 -[ Speaks indistinctly ] 803 00:47:07,965 --> 00:47:11,344 -And warranted profitability. 804 00:47:11,344 --> 00:47:13,448 Have increased to 2 -- what is it? 805 00:47:13,448 --> 00:47:16,724 -What upsets me the most is this notion that my father and I 806 00:47:16,724 --> 00:47:19,896 and other people would sit around a table plotting 807 00:47:19,896 --> 00:47:21,758 to rob old-age pensioners. 808 00:47:21,758 --> 00:47:24,586 It is the most obscene idea. 809 00:47:24,586 --> 00:47:27,241 Am I guilty of bad business judgement? 810 00:47:27,241 --> 00:47:29,344 Yes. Could we have done things differently? 811 00:47:29,344 --> 00:47:31,137 Yes. Should we have done things differently? 812 00:47:31,137 --> 00:47:32,931 Yes. Was it criminal? 813 00:47:32,931 --> 00:47:34,655 No. 814 00:47:39,068 --> 00:47:44,655 ♪♪ 815 00:47:44,655 --> 00:47:46,931 -Robert Maxwell's sons Kevin and Ian 816 00:47:46,931 --> 00:47:48,241 have denied conspiring 817 00:47:48,241 --> 00:47:50,275 to defraud their company's pension scheme 818 00:47:50,275 --> 00:47:52,103 at the start of their trial in London. 819 00:47:52,103 --> 00:47:55,068 They're accused of dishonestly using pension fund shares 820 00:47:55,068 --> 00:47:59,551 in an attempt to rescue the indebted Maxwell Group. 821 00:47:59,551 --> 00:48:02,896 -The sheer size of the case was enormous. 822 00:48:02,896 --> 00:48:06,758 {\an8}I mean, I remember it being portrayed in the media 823 00:48:06,758 --> 00:48:10,758 {\an8}covering the case at the time as the case of the century. 824 00:48:10,758 --> 00:48:12,655 {\an8}I felt completely prepared, 825 00:48:12,655 --> 00:48:17,241 and that the allegations we made was entirely sustainable. 826 00:48:18,827 --> 00:48:21,689 -Kevin Maxwell arrived at court to hear himself described 827 00:48:21,689 --> 00:48:24,482 by the prosecution as the man most responsible 828 00:48:24,482 --> 00:48:27,517 for the misuse of pension fund assets. 829 00:48:30,862 --> 00:48:34,724 -The trial was complicated. 830 00:48:34,724 --> 00:48:39,275 And I think the prosecutors were very conscious of the fact 831 00:48:39,275 --> 00:48:41,448 there've been quite a lot of white-collar crime trials 832 00:48:41,448 --> 00:48:43,620 that were perceived to be very, very complicated 833 00:48:43,620 --> 00:48:47,827 and with a lot of worry about whether juries could cope 834 00:48:47,827 --> 00:48:51,482 with the complexity and the length of these trials. 835 00:48:51,482 --> 00:48:56,137 And so they broke it into half a dozen pieces, 836 00:48:56,137 --> 00:48:58,655 different bits of fraud, if you like. 837 00:48:58,655 --> 00:49:05,482 ♪♪ 838 00:49:05,482 --> 00:49:07,379 A lot of this was going to turn on knowledge 839 00:49:07,379 --> 00:49:10,275 of the whole picture, because at that point, 840 00:49:10,275 --> 00:49:13,896 almost all of the movements of money, 841 00:49:13,896 --> 00:49:17,241 including movements of money and shares out of the pension funds, 842 00:49:17,241 --> 00:49:20,000 those weren't illegal, and were only illegal 843 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,517 if the person doing that 844 00:49:21,517 --> 00:49:24,310 knew that the money couldn't come back. 845 00:49:24,310 --> 00:49:28,206 And so the prosecutors 846 00:49:28,206 --> 00:49:30,344 were going to need to rely, at some point, 847 00:49:30,344 --> 00:49:33,862 on knowledge of the whole picture realisation 848 00:49:33,862 --> 00:49:36,379 that the money wasn't there. 849 00:49:36,379 --> 00:49:38,000 -Kevin's defence was that he believed 850 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,551 the shares were legitimately owned by the Maxwell companies 851 00:49:41,551 --> 00:49:44,275 because his father had told him so. 852 00:49:44,275 --> 00:49:46,551 The case continues tomorrow. 853 00:49:48,344 --> 00:49:52,000 -Kevin spent 21 days in the witness box. 854 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,206 The ordeal, the pressure of that 855 00:49:55,206 --> 00:49:59,551 is is almost impossible to understand. 856 00:49:59,551 --> 00:50:06,448 But 21 days consecutively of the world's focus 857 00:50:06,448 --> 00:50:11,655 on everything you say, how you say it is a scrutiny 858 00:50:11,655 --> 00:50:14,724 that I would not personally relish. 859 00:50:14,724 --> 00:50:17,310 -Jurors in the trial of Kevin and Ian Maxwell 860 00:50:17,310 --> 00:50:19,000 have retired to consider their verdicts. 861 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,068 They've heard from 70 witnesses over the past eight months. 862 00:50:23,068 --> 00:50:32,275 ♪♪ 863 00:50:32,275 --> 00:50:33,931 -You hate the sound of the phone ringing 864 00:50:33,931 --> 00:50:35,862 because that's the only -- that's the message 865 00:50:35,862 --> 00:50:38,344 to summon you back to court. 866 00:50:38,344 --> 00:50:41,379 To every call, I think, "Is that the one?" 867 00:50:43,586 --> 00:50:45,137 It's very nerve-racking. You don't know 868 00:50:45,137 --> 00:50:47,206 if you're being convicted and going to prison 869 00:50:47,206 --> 00:50:49,310 or going home. 870 00:50:53,517 --> 00:50:58,517 -The jury were out, I think, for 11 days. 871 00:50:58,517 --> 00:51:04,103 And it's a long, concerning wait. 872 00:51:04,103 --> 00:51:12,517 ♪♪ 873 00:51:12,517 --> 00:51:15,931 I got a phone call from the law clerk. 874 00:51:15,931 --> 00:51:17,793 The jury had reached verdicts. 875 00:51:17,793 --> 00:51:28,827 ♪♪ 876 00:51:28,827 --> 00:51:39,931 ♪♪ 877 00:51:41,034 --> 00:51:47,482 -I am very pleased and relieved by my acquittal. 878 00:51:47,482 --> 00:51:54,068 I gave evidence in this trial over a period of 21 days. 879 00:51:54,068 --> 00:51:56,206 In his summing up, 880 00:51:56,206 --> 00:51:59,275 the judge said he thought no jury 881 00:51:59,275 --> 00:52:01,724 had had a better opportunity 882 00:52:01,724 --> 00:52:07,137 of assessing the honesty of a witness than in my case. 883 00:52:07,137 --> 00:52:10,275 -Kevin and Ian had a horrendous legacy. 884 00:52:10,275 --> 00:52:13,206 Their father always vowed that he would give them nothing. 885 00:52:13,206 --> 00:52:14,931 No doubt they wish their inheritance 886 00:52:14,931 --> 00:52:16,689 had been that benign. 887 00:52:20,103 --> 00:52:24,413 -I think any father-son relationship is a complex one, 888 00:52:24,413 --> 00:52:30,000 and I haven't worked it out yet. 889 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:36,137 I still think of him with an immense amount of fondness, 890 00:52:36,137 --> 00:52:37,965 irrespective of the problems and irrespective 891 00:52:37,965 --> 00:52:40,689 of the aftermath of the crash. 892 00:52:43,448 --> 00:52:48,758 I find it very difficult to blame him for it. 893 00:52:48,758 --> 00:52:57,034 ♪♪ 894 00:52:57,034 --> 00:53:05,310 ♪♪ 895 00:53:05,310 --> 00:53:07,724 -I remember I was at an art opening, 896 00:53:07,724 --> 00:53:13,482 and I ran into Ghislaine, and she seemed very kind of... 897 00:53:17,137 --> 00:53:20,310 ...not stressed out exactly, but in a sort of 898 00:53:20,310 --> 00:53:24,862 froth of excitement and purpose. 899 00:53:24,862 --> 00:53:27,310 And she's... 900 00:53:27,310 --> 00:53:29,103 "I'm going to introduce you to Jeffrey," 901 00:53:29,103 --> 00:53:30,827 as if, you know, "Watch out. 902 00:53:30,827 --> 00:53:33,965 You're about to meet the president of the United States." 903 00:53:33,965 --> 00:53:38,172 So she introduced me to him. 904 00:53:38,172 --> 00:53:41,655 What I noticed was a sort of a permanent smirk, 905 00:53:41,655 --> 00:53:44,344 as if he had access to information 906 00:53:44,344 --> 00:53:46,241 and funds and intelligence 907 00:53:46,241 --> 00:53:49,000 that you could not possibly fathom. 908 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,862 ♪♪ 909 00:53:53,862 --> 00:54:00,310 And the next time I met him was a deeply weird situation. 910 00:54:00,310 --> 00:54:04,275 Ghislaine hired me to write a song 911 00:54:04,275 --> 00:54:07,551 and perform it for Jeffrey Epstein's 40th birthday. 912 00:54:07,551 --> 00:54:09,206 But Ghislaine was very insistent 913 00:54:09,206 --> 00:54:12,862 I could tell no one about this assignment. 914 00:54:12,862 --> 00:54:14,206 I could only talk to her. 915 00:54:14,206 --> 00:54:17,931 She would provide me with the information. 916 00:54:17,931 --> 00:54:19,724 But it had to have these lines. 917 00:54:19,724 --> 00:54:22,517 It had to -- One of them had to be that 918 00:54:22,517 --> 00:54:26,310 Ghislaine claims he has 24-hour erections. 919 00:54:26,310 --> 00:54:27,931 One of the verses had to be something about 920 00:54:27,931 --> 00:54:31,724 when he was a schoolteacher at Dalton School, 921 00:54:31,724 --> 00:54:35,551 he was the subject of many schoolgirl crushes, 922 00:54:35,551 --> 00:54:42,379 and she seemed to know that that would amuse him tremendously 923 00:54:42,379 --> 00:54:46,310 and that it would also resonate with his friends 924 00:54:46,310 --> 00:54:48,551 who would be there for this party. 925 00:54:48,551 --> 00:54:56,172 ♪♪ 926 00:54:56,172 --> 00:54:58,620 So I arrived at this house, 927 00:54:58,620 --> 00:55:02,551 this giant house, that seemed deeply mysterious. 928 00:55:05,931 --> 00:55:07,896 I was ushered into the kitchen. 929 00:55:07,896 --> 00:55:12,482 I think there was six guys wearing black tie. 930 00:55:12,482 --> 00:55:14,689 And it was just a power group 931 00:55:14,689 --> 00:55:19,827 who were Epstein's closest associates. 932 00:55:19,827 --> 00:55:23,620 And it was after dinner and they were smoking cigars 933 00:55:23,620 --> 00:55:26,551 and drinking brandy. 934 00:55:26,551 --> 00:55:30,655 And I had to do this sort of roast of Epstein. 935 00:55:30,655 --> 00:55:33,827 ♪♪ 936 00:56:14,620 --> 00:56:18,000 ♪♪ 937 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,482 Everyone sort of roared with laughter 938 00:56:20,482 --> 00:56:23,655 because they seemed to know him extremely well. 939 00:56:23,655 --> 00:56:28,310 But there was a strange rumour going around the room. 940 00:56:28,310 --> 00:56:30,655 He likes younger women, 941 00:56:30,655 --> 00:56:37,827 and Ghislaine introduces him to younger women. 942 00:56:37,827 --> 00:56:41,068 It seemed, I mean, 943 00:56:41,068 --> 00:56:43,965 profoundly weird. 944 00:56:43,965 --> 00:56:48,206 At the time, I have to say that it just seemed deeply weird, 945 00:56:48,206 --> 00:56:51,068 but not -- it didn't seem sinister at the time. 946 00:56:51,068 --> 00:56:54,275 I guess we were being very naive, extremely naive, 947 00:56:54,275 --> 00:56:58,172 and in retrospect, horrifyingly naive. 948 00:56:58,172 --> 00:57:04,793 ♪♪ 949 00:57:04,793 --> 00:57:11,482 ♪♪ 950 00:57:43,448 --> 00:57:51,517 ♪♪ 951 00:57:51,517 --> 00:57:54,586 -Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI, 952 00:57:54,586 --> 00:57:58,448 charged with grooming girls as young as 14. 953 00:57:58,448 --> 00:58:00,862 -The scale of the sex trafficking operation 954 00:58:00,862 --> 00:58:02,586 is astronomical. 955 00:58:02,586 --> 00:58:04,827 -It was just like a factory. 956 00:58:04,827 --> 00:58:07,137 He was running a machine, and she was the one 957 00:58:07,137 --> 00:58:09,517 operating it. 958 00:58:09,517 --> 00:58:12,965 -This is the trial of the century. 959 00:58:12,965 --> 00:58:14,931 -Our sister is presumed innocent 960 00:58:14,931 --> 00:58:17,620 until a verdict comes in. 961 00:58:17,620 --> 00:58:19,172 -We're not gonna answer any questions. 962 00:58:19,172 --> 00:58:21,965 -Ghislaine knew what was going to happen to me. 963 00:58:21,965 --> 00:58:24,586 The world shifted for me that day. 964 00:58:24,586 --> 00:58:27,275 -What do you know, Ghislaine Maxwell? 965 00:58:27,275 --> 00:58:29,000 What do you know? 966 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:38,241 ♪♪ 967 00:58:38,241 --> 00:58:47,655 ♪♪ 968 00:58:47,655 --> 00:58:57,068 ♪♪ 114472

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