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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:20,498 --> 00:00:24,850 [airplane engine revving] 2 00:00:39,126 --> 00:00:42,216 [explosion] 3 00:00:58,623 --> 00:01:01,148 - Mads: Your name is Clarinah? - Yes. 4 00:01:02,453 --> 00:01:04,760 Mads: I know for a fact that... 5 00:01:05,717 --> 00:01:07,241 the villain of this story... 6 00:01:08,024 --> 00:01:10,461 he only wore white. 7 00:01:12,420 --> 00:01:14,552 He dressed in white all the time. 8 00:01:15,162 --> 00:01:16,337 Clarinah: Okay. 9 00:01:17,338 --> 00:01:20,123 That is what I have been told. I have one picture of him... 10 00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:24,258 where he is, um, completely dressed in white. 11 00:01:24,562 --> 00:01:25,563 Clarinah: Okay. 12 00:01:29,045 --> 00:01:33,049 - Mads: So, your name is Saphir? - Yes, my name is Saphir. 13 00:01:34,703 --> 00:01:38,010 Mads: We are in Hotel Memling because... 14 00:01:39,403 --> 00:01:41,405 - the villain of the film... - Yeah. 15 00:01:41,666 --> 00:01:44,016 ...in 1965, he was staying here. 16 00:01:44,582 --> 00:01:47,585 And he was dressing the way I'm dressing now. 17 00:01:48,543 --> 00:01:50,936 So, first sentence is... 18 00:01:51,459 --> 00:01:52,721 "This could either be"... 19 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:54,810 [typewriter clacks] 20 00:01:59,075 --> 00:02:00,250 Yes. 21 00:02:00,903 --> 00:02:02,861 ...the world's biggest murder mystery"... 22 00:02:03,775 --> 00:02:04,863 Yes. 23 00:02:05,734 --> 00:02:10,304 ..."or the world's most idiotic conspiracy theory." 24 00:02:13,394 --> 00:02:15,613 "If the latter is the case"... 25 00:02:16,397 --> 00:02:17,528 Yes. 26 00:02:17,789 --> 00:02:19,139 ..."I am very sorry." 27 00:02:26,276 --> 00:02:27,930 U Thant: Ten years ago today, 28 00:02:28,713 --> 00:02:30,454 this organization... 29 00:02:31,412 --> 00:02:33,892 and much of the world as well, was shocked 30 00:02:34,197 --> 00:02:37,374 by a totally unexpected tragedy. 31 00:02:39,333 --> 00:02:40,769 Dag Hammarskjold, the Secretary General, 32 00:02:40,943 --> 00:02:43,554 was missing on a flight to Ndola... 33 00:02:44,512 --> 00:02:46,427 and all hope was lost... 34 00:02:47,079 --> 00:02:49,125 when the remains of the Secretary General's plane 35 00:02:49,299 --> 00:02:51,693 were sighted from the air. 36 00:02:53,303 --> 00:02:54,696 He was, in a very real sense, 37 00:02:54,957 --> 00:02:56,959 the world's first public servant. 38 00:03:00,745 --> 00:03:07,535 [choir singing] 39 00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:18,981 [airplane engine revving] 40 00:03:23,768 --> 00:03:26,902 - Mads: So this is Ndola? - Goran: This is Ndola Airport. 41 00:03:28,164 --> 00:03:30,166 - It's your first time here? - Yes. 42 00:03:30,471 --> 00:03:32,995 - Goran: Your name? - Mads Brugger. 43 00:03:33,561 --> 00:03:35,389 - Goran: Mads Brugger? - Brugger. 44 00:03:35,606 --> 00:03:36,781 - Goran: Brug... - Brugger. 45 00:03:37,434 --> 00:03:38,696 Goran: Same here. 46 00:03:39,567 --> 00:03:41,830 And my name is Goran. I'm Mass. 47 00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:43,962 - Mads? - Goran: Yes, me, Mass. 48 00:03:44,136 --> 00:03:45,747 - Mass. - Mads: Your name is also Mads? 49 00:03:46,051 --> 00:03:48,053 - Goran: Yes. - That is really confusing. 50 00:03:48,358 --> 00:03:50,839 Mass! M-A-S-S. That's my name. 51 00:03:51,056 --> 00:03:52,362 Mads: It's exactly like my name. 52 00:03:52,797 --> 00:03:54,843 - Nice to meet you, Mass. - Goran: Thank you. 53 00:03:55,931 --> 00:03:57,802 But Mass, do you know why we are here? 54 00:03:58,238 --> 00:03:59,108 Goran: I don't know. 55 00:03:59,804 --> 00:04:01,937 We are here because we are making a documentary 56 00:04:02,154 --> 00:04:04,896 about the death of Dag Hammarskjold. 57 00:04:05,288 --> 00:04:06,942 Goran: Okay. 58 00:04:07,769 --> 00:04:09,945 - After a long time? - Yes. 59 00:04:11,512 --> 00:04:13,253 Mads: It's a cold case, you know? 60 00:04:13,644 --> 00:04:14,689 Goran: Yeah, yeah. 61 00:04:16,691 --> 00:04:18,867 Mads: We want to find out if Hammarskjold was the victim 62 00:04:19,084 --> 00:04:21,739 - of a conspiracy. - Goran: Okay. 63 00:04:25,352 --> 00:04:27,832 I mean, you've been doing your research for a long time? 64 00:04:28,311 --> 00:04:29,312 Six years. 65 00:04:29,486 --> 00:04:30,922 - Six years? - Yeah. 66 00:04:31,227 --> 00:04:34,274 Okay. What is the title of your documentary? 67 00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:36,493 - The title? - Yes. 68 00:04:38,452 --> 00:04:41,281 - "Cold Case Hammarskjold". - Ok. 69 00:04:42,499 --> 00:04:44,153 You think it's an okay title? 70 00:04:44,632 --> 00:04:46,460 - Do you have other titles? - No. 71 00:04:46,721 --> 00:04:49,463 Okay. Then, it means this one suits. 72 00:04:49,985 --> 00:04:51,856 So, you'll have to leave it. 73 00:04:52,727 --> 00:04:55,469 Mads: Now for the... 74 00:04:55,643 --> 00:04:57,732 - the beginning of the film. - Yes. 75 00:04:58,036 --> 00:05:01,605 The scene is, I am in a hotel, in Lubumbashi. 76 00:05:01,953 --> 00:05:03,128 - Saphir: Yes. -Mads: In Katanga. 77 00:05:03,303 --> 00:05:04,216 Saphir: Yeah. 78 00:05:04,478 --> 00:05:06,349 Mads: The old Leopold II Hotel. 79 00:05:07,785 --> 00:05:10,266 I am sitting in a room, playing solitaire. 80 00:05:10,484 --> 00:05:12,181 - You know, the card game? -Saphir: Yeah. 81 00:05:12,703 --> 00:05:13,878 Mads: And... 82 00:05:14,749 --> 00:05:18,230 while you see me playing solitaire... 83 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:21,016 there is a narration. 84 00:05:22,539 --> 00:05:25,542 narrator: It's the 17th of September 1961. 85 00:05:26,108 --> 00:05:27,979 Dag Hammarskjold, the Secretary General 86 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,503 of the United Nations, 87 00:05:29,938 --> 00:05:32,593 boards a plane in the capital of the Congo. 88 00:05:33,681 --> 00:05:35,726 These are the last recordings made of him, 89 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,468 because a few hours later, around midnight, 90 00:05:38,816 --> 00:05:41,036 he will be killed in a plane crash. 91 00:05:45,997 --> 00:05:49,566 I know that I am speaking for all of my fellow Americans, 92 00:05:49,914 --> 00:05:54,049 expressing our deep sense of shock and loss 93 00:05:54,484 --> 00:05:56,225 in the untimely death of the Secretary General 94 00:05:56,399 --> 00:05:58,314 of the United Nations, Mr. Dag Hammarskjold. 95 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:01,491 Mads: The death of Secretary General Dag Hammarskjold 96 00:06:01,752 --> 00:06:03,667 reverberated around the world. 97 00:06:04,059 --> 00:06:05,669 [typewriter clacks] 98 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,763 Officially, the plane crashed because of pilot error; 99 00:06:12,937 --> 00:06:15,331 a simple misreading of the altimeter. 100 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,161 The UN later made their own investigation, 101 00:06:19,335 --> 00:06:21,772 which was undecided between pilot error 102 00:06:22,077 --> 00:06:25,428 and a possible attempt to bring the plane down. 103 00:06:25,602 --> 00:06:27,691 But right from the beginning, there were rumors 104 00:06:27,865 --> 00:06:31,216 about a conspiracy to kill Dag Hammarskjold. 105 00:06:31,565 --> 00:06:36,570 [talking in Swedish] My first thought, if I dare to say so, 106 00:06:36,874 --> 00:06:39,964 is that he has been murdered. 107 00:06:40,356 --> 00:06:41,618 Mads: Much has been forgotten, 108 00:06:42,184 --> 00:06:44,099 and much has been lost, in the passage of time. 109 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:46,493 But the questions remain, 110 00:06:47,058 --> 00:06:50,627 Was Dag Hammarskjold murdered? And if so, who killed him? 111 00:06:56,372 --> 00:06:58,026 Mads: Did you know about Hammarskjold? 112 00:06:58,548 --> 00:07:00,158 No. I didn't know. 113 00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:04,728 Mads: Dag Hammarskjold became the UN Secretary General 114 00:07:04,902 --> 00:07:06,251 in 1953. 115 00:07:06,948 --> 00:07:10,647 At first, he was believed to be a boring Swedish technocrat, 116 00:07:11,082 --> 00:07:14,477 but, in fact, he was a flaming and strong-willed idealist. 117 00:07:14,738 --> 00:07:18,220 It is very easy to bow to the wish of a big power. 118 00:07:18,699 --> 00:07:20,527 It is another matter to resist. 119 00:07:20,918 --> 00:07:22,093 For Hammarskjold, 120 00:07:22,746 --> 00:07:25,488 one of the most important tasks of the UN 121 00:07:25,967 --> 00:07:28,099 was to protect the African countries 122 00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:31,712 who had recently gained independence, 123 00:07:31,973 --> 00:07:34,889 from the tentacles of old colonial powers. 124 00:07:36,412 --> 00:07:39,328 These new nations wish to build a life of progress 125 00:07:39,502 --> 00:07:41,025 in full independence. 126 00:07:42,462 --> 00:07:44,507 They look to the United Nations for moral, 127 00:07:44,725 --> 00:07:46,248 political and economic support. 128 00:07:49,033 --> 00:07:50,382 Mads: This made him a lot of enemies 129 00:07:50,557 --> 00:07:53,037 amongst the old colonial powers. 130 00:07:53,647 --> 00:07:56,519 So, if there ever was a time where members of the UN 131 00:07:56,693 --> 00:07:59,696 were longing for the death of the Secretary General, 132 00:07:59,914 --> 00:08:02,046 it was during the reign of Dag Hammarskjold. 133 00:08:02,525 --> 00:08:04,788 Whatever happens, stick to your guns... 134 00:08:05,659 --> 00:08:08,966 so that you can feel satisfaction with what 135 00:08:09,140 --> 00:08:11,273 you've done. Whatever the outcome. 136 00:08:13,362 --> 00:08:15,190 Mads: His plane crashed in the outskirts 137 00:08:15,407 --> 00:08:17,845 of a small mining town called Ndola, 138 00:08:18,367 --> 00:08:20,369 right on the border between the Congo 139 00:08:20,543 --> 00:08:22,806 and the British protectorate of Rhodesia. 140 00:08:24,460 --> 00:08:26,070 It was the perfect kill room. 141 00:08:26,244 --> 00:08:30,292 Isolated and far away from prying eyes and ears. 142 00:08:39,170 --> 00:08:41,259 Hammarskjold was on his way to Ndola 143 00:08:41,433 --> 00:08:43,827 for peace talks with Moise Tshombe... 144 00:08:44,349 --> 00:08:47,657 the rebel leader of the breakaway region Katanga. 145 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:50,878 People need to know about Katanga. 146 00:08:51,226 --> 00:08:55,404 How Katanga in 1960... 147 00:08:56,753 --> 00:09:00,452 seceded from Congo, declared independence, 148 00:09:00,757 --> 00:09:02,324 and a war broke out. 149 00:09:02,977 --> 00:09:05,327 And it's important people understand that 150 00:09:05,762 --> 00:09:07,808 Katanga was basically the property 151 00:09:07,982 --> 00:09:11,115 of a giant Belgian corporation called Union Minière, 152 00:09:11,551 --> 00:09:12,639 a mining corporation. 153 00:09:13,465 --> 00:09:16,468 And it was more or less Union Minière who installed 154 00:09:17,121 --> 00:09:19,254 Moise Tshombe as the leader of Katanga... 155 00:09:19,515 --> 00:09:20,560 Saphir: Yes. 156 00:09:21,473 --> 00:09:23,301 Mads: ...as a figurehead. Because right below him... 157 00:09:24,302 --> 00:09:26,566 the big mining corporations were running the shows. 158 00:09:27,479 --> 00:09:30,134 And they brought in a lot of mercenaries. 159 00:09:31,135 --> 00:09:33,790 Dag: In a perspective, which may well be short 160 00:09:34,225 --> 00:09:35,313 rather than long... 161 00:09:35,966 --> 00:09:39,666 the problem facing the Congo is one of peace or war. 162 00:09:41,798 --> 00:09:44,192 Mads: Dag Hammarskjold, he wants to fix the Katanga crisis. 163 00:09:44,409 --> 00:09:47,282 - Yes. - So he brings in UN soldiers. 164 00:09:47,717 --> 00:09:50,415 He attacks the mercenary army of Katanga... 165 00:09:50,938 --> 00:09:52,461 thinking it would be a quick fix. 166 00:09:52,940 --> 00:09:54,681 But the mercenaries are hardcore. 167 00:10:00,425 --> 00:10:01,992 - It's a disaster for the UN. -Saphir: Mm-hmm. 168 00:10:03,167 --> 00:10:04,691 Mads: A lot of civilians are killed, 169 00:10:05,256 --> 00:10:06,388 also UN soldiers. 170 00:10:11,436 --> 00:10:14,222 Backed by mining interests and European mercenaries, 171 00:10:14,439 --> 00:10:17,007 Katanga had seceded from the Congo, 172 00:10:17,486 --> 00:10:19,140 and a UN lead military operation 173 00:10:19,314 --> 00:10:21,838 to capture Moise Tshombe and put an end 174 00:10:22,012 --> 00:10:25,668 to Katanga's secession from the Congo, had backfired. 175 00:10:27,452 --> 00:10:28,889 Mr. President. 176 00:10:30,151 --> 00:10:33,763 I regret that it has been necessary for me to call again 177 00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:36,113 the attention of the Security Council 178 00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:38,768 to the problem we are facing in the Congo. 179 00:10:38,942 --> 00:10:40,030 Mads: So... 180 00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:43,207 the Americans. I think also the British, 181 00:10:43,991 --> 00:10:46,210 tell Dag Hammarskjold, "You have to fix this now." 182 00:10:46,558 --> 00:10:48,343 - They are very angry at him. - Saphir: Yes. 183 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,520 Mads: He has moved beyond his mandate. He has gone rogue. 184 00:10:51,868 --> 00:10:54,958 That is why he flies in, you know, to Katanga... 185 00:10:55,785 --> 00:10:57,831 for meeting with Moise Tshombe... 186 00:10:58,745 --> 00:11:00,007 hoping that he can 187 00:11:00,398 --> 00:11:01,791 broker a peace deal 188 00:11:02,183 --> 00:11:04,359 with Moise Tshombe and stop the fighting. 189 00:11:05,012 --> 00:11:05,926 Then, he flies in, 190 00:11:06,578 --> 00:11:07,884 and just as the plane is about to land, 191 00:11:08,145 --> 00:11:09,451 - Yeah. - ...it crashes, and he dies. 192 00:11:15,805 --> 00:11:18,634 - Goran: What are we doing? - We are making a... 193 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,681 We are doing a checkup on the equipment before 194 00:11:21,855 --> 00:11:23,770 we go to the burial site... 195 00:11:23,944 --> 00:11:25,467 - Goran: Okay. - ...of the wreckage. 196 00:11:26,076 --> 00:11:28,470 - Goran: Yeah. - First of all, we need to have 197 00:11:28,688 --> 00:11:30,951 the pictures you have found. 198 00:11:32,169 --> 00:11:33,997 - Goran: This? - There? Yes. 199 00:11:34,781 --> 00:11:37,566 So they keep the wreckage of the Albertina, 200 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:39,699 Hammarskjold's plane, inside a sealed hangar... 201 00:11:40,874 --> 00:11:42,223 for many months. 202 00:11:42,571 --> 00:11:44,616 And then, in 1962, they bury everything. 203 00:11:44,921 --> 00:11:47,707 - Goran: Yes. - And through this picture 204 00:11:48,055 --> 00:11:52,842 we would be able to triangulate where the wreckage is buried. 205 00:11:53,495 --> 00:11:55,149 Goran: Oh, yes, that should be very possible. You know, 206 00:11:55,323 --> 00:11:57,238 thanks to the buildings you can see up here. 207 00:11:57,412 --> 00:11:59,066 I think, that's maybe the control tower, 208 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,372 and there's some other buildings and a road here. 209 00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:02,765 Mads: Let's go through the equipment 210 00:12:02,939 --> 00:12:04,071 I have prepared for us. 211 00:12:04,462 --> 00:12:06,595 There are two pith helmets, 212 00:12:06,943 --> 00:12:08,423 because we will be working in sun, 213 00:12:08,597 --> 00:12:10,207 to protect our Scandinavian skin. 214 00:12:12,035 --> 00:12:15,038 - There are two shovels, - Goran: Mm-hmm. 215 00:12:15,517 --> 00:12:19,434 ...because, if possible, and nobody takes offence, 216 00:12:19,695 --> 00:12:21,915 we should be digging for the wreckage. 217 00:12:22,263 --> 00:12:25,483 And we will find the wreckage ultimately by using this 218 00:12:26,136 --> 00:12:28,443 metal detector with an extra powerful coil 219 00:12:28,617 --> 00:12:30,445 that I purchased for us in Johannesburg. 220 00:12:31,098 --> 00:12:33,709 And, finally, if and when we find the wreckage... 221 00:12:34,492 --> 00:12:36,973 two Cuban cigars... 222 00:12:38,105 --> 00:12:40,542 [talking in Swedish] But, I don't smoke. 223 00:12:41,586 --> 00:12:44,024 - Mads: Bjorkdahl. - Clarinah: Goran Bjorkdahl. 224 00:12:44,589 --> 00:12:46,156 "What happened was this, 225 00:12:46,853 --> 00:12:50,595 Goran's father was a diplomat working for the UN. 226 00:12:51,466 --> 00:12:55,122 In that capacity, he visited the crash site at Ndola 227 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,083 where Hammarskjold was killed. It was sometime in the 70's." 228 00:13:01,650 --> 00:13:04,522 Saphir: "He was given a metal plate... 229 00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:09,658 which allegedly was coming from Dag Hammarskjold's plane. 230 00:13:10,006 --> 00:13:12,356 Clarinah: ..."was coming from Hammarskjold's plane." 231 00:13:12,966 --> 00:13:15,446 The plate had these strange... 232 00:13:16,491 --> 00:13:18,928 small, round little holes in it," 233 00:13:19,233 --> 00:13:21,539 which made Goran's father wonder. 234 00:13:22,062 --> 00:13:24,978 So, he brought the metal plate back to Sweden... 235 00:13:25,587 --> 00:13:28,198 and asked the Ministry of Foreign Affairs 236 00:13:28,416 --> 00:13:30,679 if they had any interest in it. 237 00:13:31,071 --> 00:13:32,594 They told him no." 238 00:13:33,551 --> 00:13:34,814 "They told him no." 239 00:13:35,727 --> 00:13:36,641 Yes. 240 00:13:37,381 --> 00:13:39,470 Clarinah: "And so, many years later, 241 00:13:39,775 --> 00:13:42,604 when Goran's father is going to a nursing home 242 00:13:42,778 --> 00:13:44,214 for elderly people, 243 00:13:44,824 --> 00:13:49,437 Goran finds the metal plate amongst his father's belongings. 244 00:13:51,091 --> 00:13:55,225 He asks his father what the metal plate is about. 245 00:13:58,489 --> 00:14:00,361 And from that point onwards, 246 00:14:00,796 --> 00:14:03,364 Goran has been obsessed 247 00:14:03,538 --> 00:14:06,933 with the murder mystery of Dag Hammarskjold." 248 00:14:16,072 --> 00:14:17,769 Mads: "All by himself, 249 00:14:18,335 --> 00:14:21,077 Goran does something groundbreaking." 250 00:14:25,690 --> 00:14:27,214 He travels to Ndola 251 00:14:27,997 --> 00:14:31,044 and begins tracking down the remaining black witnesses. 252 00:14:31,218 --> 00:14:33,611 - Over there, then? Where was... - This side. 253 00:14:33,785 --> 00:14:35,091 That was that side? Okay. 254 00:14:35,483 --> 00:14:38,268 "Black people were not taken seriously as witnesses. 255 00:14:39,313 --> 00:14:43,404 And furthermore, many of them were afraid to come forward." 256 00:14:44,796 --> 00:14:46,189 Mads: You know, they were thinking, 257 00:14:46,494 --> 00:14:48,017 If they have killed Dag Hammarskjold... 258 00:14:48,278 --> 00:14:49,976 - Saphir: Yeah. - ...what will they do to me, 259 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,240 if I tell them what I know?" 260 00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:55,633 They were charcoal burners, 261 00:14:56,243 --> 00:14:59,289 living in the forest, very close to the crash. 262 00:14:59,594 --> 00:15:00,508 Saphir: Yeah. 263 00:15:01,422 --> 00:15:04,077 Mads: So, they were the witnesses who were... 264 00:15:05,078 --> 00:15:07,471 as close to the event as possible. 265 00:15:07,732 --> 00:15:09,343 And we could see the plane going 266 00:15:09,821 --> 00:15:12,737 to, you know, to the airport to land. 267 00:15:13,347 --> 00:15:15,915 But, suddenly, I don't know what happened, 268 00:15:16,132 --> 00:15:17,829 the lights went off at the airport. 269 00:15:27,361 --> 00:15:29,580 Clarinah: "They talk about another plane in the air, 270 00:15:29,754 --> 00:15:33,280 which is shooting at Dag Hammarskjold's plane." 271 00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:38,067 - You said you heard a sound? - man: Yes. Another sound. 272 00:15:38,241 --> 00:15:39,547 - Goran: Another sound? - Yes. 273 00:15:39,808 --> 00:15:41,853 That sound was like a jet. 274 00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:48,904 [speaking in Tonga] We just saw the flash from the sky. 275 00:15:50,558 --> 00:15:53,561 There was a big plane coming this way 276 00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:55,345 and a small plane behind it. 277 00:15:56,912 --> 00:15:59,262 There was a sound like this, "Boom!" 278 00:16:00,785 --> 00:16:03,658 There was a fire. 279 00:16:04,354 --> 00:16:08,358 I told my boss, 280 00:16:08,576 --> 00:16:11,231 Mr. Jimmy James, he was my boss at the time. 281 00:16:11,883 --> 00:16:14,321 He was a Briton. And I said, 282 00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:17,237 "Something happened, what happened?" 283 00:16:17,672 --> 00:16:19,413 "There were no lights, the lights were switched off 284 00:16:19,717 --> 00:16:23,069 at the airport." And he just told me, "Shh." 285 00:16:23,591 --> 00:16:26,376 - [rain pattering] - [thunder rumbling] 286 00:16:35,081 --> 00:16:38,258 It came from the east, because the pilot, you know, 287 00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:42,175 made a long turn to avoid Katanga airspace. 288 00:16:42,784 --> 00:16:46,179 And the plane continued towards the west. That side. 289 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:49,834 And it disappeared in the horizon. 290 00:16:50,052 --> 00:16:53,447 And just when it disappeared in the horizon over there, 291 00:16:53,708 --> 00:16:55,492 there was a bright red flash. 292 00:16:55,884 --> 00:16:57,494 - Mads: Over there? - Over there. Yes. 293 00:16:58,582 --> 00:17:01,194 People in Ndola saw it, many people saw it. 294 00:17:01,368 --> 00:17:03,022 What about Martin, who was here, manning the tower? 295 00:17:03,196 --> 00:17:05,372 Yeah, the radio controller, Martin, he claims, 296 00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:07,504 he didn't see it. Which is strange, 297 00:17:07,678 --> 00:17:09,419 because normally, he should've been sitting 298 00:17:09,593 --> 00:17:10,725 inside the tower... 299 00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:14,294 looking in that direction. He said he didn't see it. 300 00:17:15,338 --> 00:17:17,384 And that is not the only strange thing. 301 00:17:17,819 --> 00:17:19,951 Martin, of course he took notes. 302 00:17:21,214 --> 00:17:22,563 A controller has to take notes 303 00:17:22,824 --> 00:17:24,652 of the conversation with the pilots. 304 00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:26,958 He took notes, but for some reason... 305 00:17:28,264 --> 00:17:30,832 he destroyed his notes the next day. 306 00:17:32,268 --> 00:17:35,402 So, two days after the crash, he had to rewrite... 307 00:17:37,056 --> 00:17:38,318 his notes. 308 00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,716 Goran begins looking for the killers. 309 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,893 Goran goes to London. 310 00:17:49,764 --> 00:17:51,113 In The Travelers Club... 311 00:17:51,853 --> 00:17:53,333 he meets with a... 312 00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:57,685 former American NSA officer. 313 00:17:58,338 --> 00:18:00,035 A man named Charles Southall. 314 00:18:01,602 --> 00:18:03,082 Goran: Now it has started. 315 00:18:03,604 --> 00:18:06,433 Hello, I'm Charles Southall. 316 00:18:06,781 --> 00:18:09,697 Goran: NSA is an American Intelligence Organization. 317 00:18:09,871 --> 00:18:11,177 I was a naval officer. 318 00:18:11,742 --> 00:18:14,136 They are basically spying on the whole world. 319 00:18:14,919 --> 00:18:17,574 I was home with my young family, 320 00:18:17,966 --> 00:18:21,404 and received a telephone call, saying... 321 00:18:22,188 --> 00:18:24,451 "You really should come out to the station 322 00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:27,280 around midnight, because something interesting 323 00:18:27,454 --> 00:18:28,716 is going to happen." 324 00:18:29,543 --> 00:18:31,545 And, shortly after midnight... 325 00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:34,591 a recording came through... 326 00:18:35,462 --> 00:18:38,073 from somewhere down in Africa. I don't remember 327 00:18:38,247 --> 00:18:39,118 where it came from, 328 00:18:39,770 --> 00:18:42,425 and I probably didn't even know at the time. 329 00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:45,472 But, one of the watch supervisors 330 00:18:45,776 --> 00:18:46,821 commented that, 331 00:18:47,517 --> 00:18:51,608 "This is history, and it's only seven minutes old." 332 00:18:52,261 --> 00:18:55,873 And it was the recording of a man that we were aware of. 333 00:18:56,222 --> 00:18:58,789 A Belgian mercenary pilot... 334 00:18:59,355 --> 00:19:01,705 who we called "The Lone Ranger". 335 00:19:02,793 --> 00:19:05,666 He apparently was up 336 00:19:05,927 --> 00:19:07,972 in a Fouga Magister. 337 00:19:08,843 --> 00:19:12,412 He said, "I see a transport coming in low." 338 00:19:14,501 --> 00:19:16,894 I'm going down to take a look at it." 339 00:19:18,113 --> 00:19:20,463 And he said, "I'm gonna make a run on it." 340 00:19:20,724 --> 00:19:23,466 And then you could hear, and this was really chilling, 341 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,208 you could hear the gun cannon firing. 342 00:19:26,556 --> 00:19:30,473 "Rattattat." And he said, "I've hit it. 343 00:19:30,647 --> 00:19:32,736 "There are flames coming out of it." 344 00:19:33,084 --> 00:19:36,697 And quite quickly he said, "It's crashed." 345 00:19:37,176 --> 00:19:39,439 And that was the end of the recording. 346 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,920 And we processed this recording, 347 00:19:43,312 --> 00:19:46,228 and sent it off to Washington. 348 00:19:47,447 --> 00:19:48,970 And we all went home then. 349 00:19:49,318 --> 00:19:52,452 At the time we heard this recording, 350 00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:54,149 I did not know... 351 00:19:54,845 --> 00:19:59,633 this was the aircraft that was transporting Dag Hammarskjold 352 00:19:59,807 --> 00:20:04,203 and his staff and his personal security people. 353 00:20:08,642 --> 00:20:10,078 Goran: Here you can see the control tower. 354 00:20:10,383 --> 00:20:11,384 So, this spot... 355 00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:14,387 it must be just down here. 356 00:20:15,344 --> 00:20:17,433 - Just down there, actually. - Yeah. 357 00:20:18,739 --> 00:20:20,958 Mads: My big ambition is to bring it up. 358 00:20:21,437 --> 00:20:22,612 All of it has to come up? 359 00:20:22,786 --> 00:20:24,527 Yes, because of new technology... 360 00:20:24,701 --> 00:20:25,833 Now we only have two shovels? 361 00:20:27,878 --> 00:20:29,489 - First, I have to find it. - Okay. 362 00:20:30,577 --> 00:20:31,665 Because of new technology, 363 00:20:31,926 --> 00:20:33,493 if you can reexamine the wreckage... 364 00:20:33,971 --> 00:20:37,671 it is possible to say, was there explosives involved? 365 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,412 We will come back in the morning, 366 00:20:39,673 --> 00:20:40,935 with the metal detector, 367 00:20:41,457 --> 00:20:42,545 and then we will try to sweep, 368 00:20:42,806 --> 00:20:44,460 to see if there's anything there. 369 00:20:46,288 --> 00:20:47,376 Probably around somewhere there. 370 00:20:47,550 --> 00:20:48,943 Yeah, it must be somewhere there. 371 00:20:49,117 --> 00:20:51,119 Yeah, it's very close here. 372 00:20:54,949 --> 00:20:57,212 Mads: There were never taken any so called 373 00:20:57,386 --> 00:20:59,910 in situ pictures of Dag Hammarskjold's body. 374 00:21:00,346 --> 00:21:02,261 Pictures of the body as it looked like 375 00:21:02,478 --> 00:21:04,350 when it was found at the crash site. 376 00:21:05,002 --> 00:21:06,395 The first pictures were taken 377 00:21:06,743 --> 00:21:08,702 after he had been moved onto a stretcher. 378 00:21:09,137 --> 00:21:11,531 And here, in the shirt collar of Dag Hammarskjold, 379 00:21:11,922 --> 00:21:13,750 a playing card can be seen. 380 00:21:14,273 --> 00:21:15,578 And by the way, this playing card 381 00:21:15,796 --> 00:21:17,667 is not mentioned in the autopsy report. 382 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,539 But, you may ask, 383 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,715 what kind of playing card was it? 384 00:21:22,455 --> 00:21:25,588 The first civilian photographer admitted to the crash site, 385 00:21:25,806 --> 00:21:29,810 a man named Norman Kenward, claims to know the answer. 386 00:21:32,552 --> 00:21:35,816 Yes, I was the local photographer. 387 00:21:36,382 --> 00:21:39,994 And in the early afternoon, I would say early afternoon, 388 00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:43,432 I received a telephone call... 389 00:21:44,085 --> 00:21:47,523 asking me, if I had heard anything 390 00:21:47,697 --> 00:21:50,961 about the Dag Hammarskjold plane crashing. 391 00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:54,400 - Mads: Who was it calling you? - A police officer. 392 00:21:59,927 --> 00:22:02,277 He said to me, "My advice to you is, 393 00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:04,148 have your cameras ready", 394 00:22:04,584 --> 00:22:07,195 and with that, I immediately jumped in the car, 395 00:22:07,978 --> 00:22:09,719 with no other assistants with me, 396 00:22:09,893 --> 00:22:12,374 and I raced towards Ndola. 397 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,250 Saphir: How many days did it take to find his body? 398 00:22:19,468 --> 00:22:21,340 - It took 15 hours. - Fifteen hours? 399 00:22:21,644 --> 00:22:25,648 Yes. But it crashed eight miles from the airport. 400 00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:27,607 And there was a big fire, you know? 401 00:22:27,781 --> 00:22:30,218 I went there with my friend. 402 00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:34,483 But still there was a very big fire in the morning. 403 00:22:34,744 --> 00:22:36,529 - Yeah - So, it must have been easy 404 00:22:36,746 --> 00:22:37,617 to see. 405 00:22:37,878 --> 00:22:40,359 As I arrived at the crash site, 406 00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:43,187 I parked my car 407 00:22:43,971 --> 00:22:48,323 and got the equipment I needed, my camera, Rolleiflex camera. 408 00:22:51,065 --> 00:22:54,416 As I walked along the track, to the left of me 409 00:22:54,764 --> 00:22:56,679 was a pile of bodies. 410 00:22:57,898 --> 00:22:58,986 All right? 411 00:22:59,943 --> 00:23:02,642 I casually said to one of the persons there, 412 00:23:02,859 --> 00:23:05,862 I said, "Oh! What's going on?" Oh, he said, 413 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,214 "We're putting Hammarskjold into the ambulance." 414 00:23:13,957 --> 00:23:15,306 Mads: You know, it's complicated, because, 415 00:23:15,481 --> 00:23:17,091 when they found his body at the crash site... 416 00:23:17,265 --> 00:23:18,962 It's a very mysterious story. 417 00:23:20,007 --> 00:23:21,617 Mads: When they found his body at the crash site... 418 00:23:21,791 --> 00:23:23,489 - Saphir: Yeah? - ...all the other passengers, 419 00:23:23,706 --> 00:23:26,187 most of them, they were totally burned, 420 00:23:26,405 --> 00:23:28,494 - Saphir: Okay. - ...and in bits and pieces, 421 00:23:28,711 --> 00:23:29,886 - all over the place. - Saphir: Yeah. 422 00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:33,194 But Hammarskjold, he was just lying on the ground, 423 00:23:33,455 --> 00:23:34,848 - you know, like this... - Yes. 424 00:23:35,370 --> 00:23:37,241 ...remarkably undamaged. 425 00:23:40,114 --> 00:23:41,376 Goran: Okay, he was lying like that? 426 00:23:41,637 --> 00:23:42,551 Yes. 427 00:23:43,944 --> 00:23:46,207 Mads: And then comes the most important detail. 428 00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:47,774 So, a few days later, 429 00:23:47,991 --> 00:23:50,211 you meet the exact same police officer 430 00:23:50,385 --> 00:23:51,647 - in the street? - Norman: Correct. 431 00:23:52,256 --> 00:23:55,434 And you have a conversation, which you choose to keep secret 432 00:23:55,608 --> 00:23:58,088 - for a great many years. - Norman: Yes. 433 00:23:58,611 --> 00:23:59,916 And he said, "Oh, by the way." 434 00:24:00,351 --> 00:24:02,179 He said, "Did you hear about Hammarskjold?" 435 00:24:02,353 --> 00:24:04,834 I said, "Well, you know, I believe, he was dead, 436 00:24:05,052 --> 00:24:06,619 or died", or whatever. 437 00:24:07,663 --> 00:24:10,666 He said, "Did you see him up close?" 438 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,102 I said, "No, I did not." 439 00:24:13,321 --> 00:24:15,236 He said, "Well, between you and me, 440 00:24:15,715 --> 00:24:18,282 rumor, and I'll say rumor, has it, 441 00:24:18,674 --> 00:24:21,329 he had the death card in his collar." 442 00:24:21,808 --> 00:24:24,114 So, I said, "A death card? The ace of spades?" 443 00:24:24,288 --> 00:24:25,464 He said, "Yes." 444 00:24:25,855 --> 00:24:27,378 I said, "My goodness, you know, what a... 445 00:24:28,205 --> 00:24:29,729 coincidence sort of thing." You know. 446 00:24:30,469 --> 00:24:32,079 "By the way," he said, "Please, Norman, 447 00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:34,255 don't mention that to anyone." 448 00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:37,606 He says, "After all, it's not released officially 449 00:24:37,867 --> 00:24:39,086 to anyone." 450 00:25:20,431 --> 00:25:21,520 Goran: Well, there's nothing here. 451 00:25:22,216 --> 00:25:23,260 Mads: No. 452 00:25:25,088 --> 00:25:26,916 - Goran: That's interesting. - Mads: Yeah, what was that? 453 00:25:28,178 --> 00:25:29,484 Goran: Yeah, I mean... 454 00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:33,270 That would actually fit with the map. 455 00:25:34,750 --> 00:25:39,363 If the burial spot is there, it should make a sound there, 456 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:40,974 and not over here. 457 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:43,411 So, yes, that makes sense. 458 00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:46,936 - [machine beeps] - Goran: See? 459 00:25:56,946 --> 00:25:58,426 [machine beeps] 460 00:26:13,267 --> 00:26:14,964 So, just to be 100 percent sure, 461 00:26:15,138 --> 00:26:16,923 should we check out the other place? 462 00:26:24,670 --> 00:26:25,801 Can you read that sentence to me? 463 00:26:26,019 --> 00:26:27,063 Saphir: Yeah. Um, 464 00:26:27,716 --> 00:26:31,720 "In September 2013, the story moved beyond the realm 465 00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:36,682 of conspiracy theory for the senior citizens." 466 00:26:37,073 --> 00:26:38,858 Yes, because it's only old people 467 00:26:39,032 --> 00:26:40,120 who remembers Dag Hammarskjold. 468 00:26:40,773 --> 00:26:42,165 - Saphir: Okay. -Mads: Now, what happened is, 469 00:26:42,949 --> 00:26:43,950 they have a press conference 470 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:46,517 in The Peace Palace, where a commission of jurists... 471 00:26:46,953 --> 00:26:48,737 - Saphir: Yeah. - ...who have been investigating 472 00:26:48,998 --> 00:26:51,566 the case, presents their conclusions. 473 00:26:52,567 --> 00:26:55,178 The commission will present the report on its inquiry 474 00:26:55,439 --> 00:26:56,919 into the cause of death 475 00:26:57,267 --> 00:27:00,531 of the former Secretary General of the United Nations, 476 00:27:00,749 --> 00:27:03,317 Dag Hammarskjold, in 1961. 477 00:27:03,796 --> 00:27:06,233 Mads: The purpose of the report is to evaluate 478 00:27:06,407 --> 00:27:08,322 the new body of evidence uncovered about 479 00:27:08,801 --> 00:27:10,454 the death of Dag Hammarskjold. 480 00:27:10,846 --> 00:27:14,067 Not least, thanks to the work of Goran Bjorkdahl. 481 00:27:16,809 --> 00:27:19,681 I may say, Mr. Bjorkdahl, we have been very much assisted 482 00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:22,118 by the research that you have made available to us. 483 00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:25,165 - Thanks. - Mads: The commission had asked 484 00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:27,820 the U.S. National Security Agency, 485 00:27:28,081 --> 00:27:30,866 the NSA, if they had any records 486 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,086 in their archives matching the description 487 00:27:33,260 --> 00:27:35,871 of intercepted radio traffic given by 488 00:27:36,045 --> 00:27:38,657 former NSA officer Charles Southall. 489 00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:43,183 The archive's response, as we record in section 15.12, 490 00:27:43,618 --> 00:27:46,447 has been that of three documents, 491 00:27:46,621 --> 00:27:49,624 or records, which appear to respond to our request, 492 00:27:50,277 --> 00:27:54,585 two are classified top secret, on national security grounds. 493 00:27:55,282 --> 00:27:57,371 Mads: This means: "Yes, we have the records 494 00:27:57,545 --> 00:28:00,156 you are looking for, but you cannot have them." 495 00:28:00,591 --> 00:28:02,158 But even more interesting is the question 496 00:28:02,376 --> 00:28:03,290 of whether a bomb 497 00:28:04,247 --> 00:28:06,032 had been planted in Dag Hammarskjold's plane. 498 00:28:06,467 --> 00:28:09,122 When the UN did their first investigation of the crash, 499 00:28:09,557 --> 00:28:10,950 back in 1962, 500 00:28:11,472 --> 00:28:13,256 it was discovered that Dag Hammarskjold's plane, 501 00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:14,518 the Albertina, 502 00:28:15,432 --> 00:28:17,565 had been left completely unguarded at the airport 503 00:28:17,783 --> 00:28:20,046 for at least two hours before takeoff, 504 00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:23,179 which would make it possible for a determined person 505 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,834 to plant a bomb inside the plane. 506 00:28:27,401 --> 00:28:30,012 But, as the investigators wrote at the time, 507 00:28:30,317 --> 00:28:33,233 "This is no more than a theory, not even supported 508 00:28:33,407 --> 00:28:35,409 by circumstantial evidence." 509 00:28:36,715 --> 00:28:39,195 "What, nevertheless, lends apparent substance 510 00:28:39,413 --> 00:28:40,414 to the bomb theory, 511 00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:43,547 is the batch of documents, pertinently originating 512 00:28:43,765 --> 00:28:46,289 through a body called The South African Institute 513 00:28:46,463 --> 00:28:49,597 for Marine Research." "Maritime Research"? 514 00:28:50,206 --> 00:28:51,120 "Maritime Research." 515 00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:01,348 So, now, we are going to South Africa. 516 00:29:01,957 --> 00:29:06,092 Saphir: Are you going to talk about the deeper story? 517 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,790 - About what? - About what happened there? 518 00:29:09,095 --> 00:29:10,923 - About apartheid? - Yes. 519 00:29:11,140 --> 00:29:12,141 Yes. 520 00:29:16,711 --> 00:29:20,323 - Because, you know, in 1998... - Yeah? 521 00:29:21,803 --> 00:29:24,066 ...The Truth and Reconciliation Commission... 522 00:29:24,545 --> 00:29:26,373 - Mm-hmm. - ...they are closing down. 523 00:29:26,852 --> 00:29:28,636 In August 1998, 524 00:29:28,854 --> 00:29:31,160 having spent more than four years investigating 525 00:29:31,334 --> 00:29:33,423 the crimes of the apartheid regime, 526 00:29:33,772 --> 00:29:36,035 the Truth and Reconciliation Commission 527 00:29:36,252 --> 00:29:37,166 was closing down. 528 00:29:37,732 --> 00:29:39,168 To mark the end of their work, 529 00:29:39,516 --> 00:29:41,997 they held a final press conference in Cape Town, 530 00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:44,870 chaired by Archbishop Desmond Tutu. 531 00:29:45,044 --> 00:29:47,089 It is a very special moment... 532 00:29:48,525 --> 00:29:50,440 for all of us. 533 00:29:52,007 --> 00:29:54,183 We have discovered, 534 00:29:54,705 --> 00:29:56,969 in the course of our investigation, 535 00:29:57,186 --> 00:30:00,799 documents reporting to be from an institution called 536 00:30:00,973 --> 00:30:05,107 "The South African Institute of Maritime Research"... 537 00:30:07,631 --> 00:30:12,201 discussing the sabotage of the aircraft in which 538 00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:15,378 the United Nations Secretary General 539 00:30:15,596 --> 00:30:16,945 Dag Hammarskjold died 540 00:30:17,337 --> 00:30:22,168 on the night of September 18, 1961. 541 00:30:23,691 --> 00:30:26,476 man: Has everybody got a copy of these secret documents 542 00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:28,652 from the Institute of Maritime Research? 543 00:30:29,740 --> 00:30:31,394 How many are missing? 544 00:30:33,483 --> 00:30:35,616 Mads: The documents come from, 545 00:30:36,051 --> 00:30:38,749 allegedly, from a shadowy private... 546 00:30:39,315 --> 00:30:41,970 paramilitary intelligence organization, 547 00:30:42,144 --> 00:30:46,975 known as The South African Maritime Research Institute. 548 00:30:49,282 --> 00:30:50,761 And they are... 549 00:30:52,241 --> 00:30:54,591 the manuscript for killing Dag Hammarskjold. 550 00:30:56,724 --> 00:30:59,553 The full set of documents, discovered in the vaults 551 00:30:59,770 --> 00:31:01,555 of South Africa's secret service, 552 00:31:02,034 --> 00:31:04,558 was said to consist of 12 pages, 553 00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:06,995 but the originals have since vanished 554 00:31:07,256 --> 00:31:09,215 in South African state archives. 555 00:31:10,216 --> 00:31:12,305 What remains are blurred photocopies 556 00:31:12,479 --> 00:31:13,741 of nine pages, 557 00:31:14,481 --> 00:31:17,614 outlining a plot to kill Dag Hammarskjold with a bomb. 558 00:31:18,528 --> 00:31:20,879 The documents say that Hammarskjold had to be removed 559 00:31:21,444 --> 00:31:25,448 because the United Nations had become "troublesome". 560 00:31:26,493 --> 00:31:28,060 Among the conspirators, 561 00:31:28,408 --> 00:31:30,497 British Intelligence is mentioned, 562 00:31:30,714 --> 00:31:34,414 as well as the American Intelligence Service, the CIA. 563 00:31:35,763 --> 00:31:39,985 man: Do you know whether the Institute still exists? 564 00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:43,031 Yes, in fact, when we got these documents, 565 00:31:43,205 --> 00:31:44,250 which was about... 566 00:31:45,729 --> 00:31:47,122 a few months ago. 567 00:31:47,644 --> 00:31:52,432 The first thing that we did, was to send an investigator 568 00:31:52,911 --> 00:31:54,825 to establish whether in fact 569 00:31:55,565 --> 00:31:58,786 there is an institute of this nature. 570 00:32:02,268 --> 00:32:06,402 We are of the view that there is an institute, 571 00:32:06,620 --> 00:32:10,493 though in a different form, or a slightly different form. 572 00:32:11,364 --> 00:32:12,539 Mads: But, none of the journalists 573 00:32:12,974 --> 00:32:15,063 went to look for the institute themselves. 574 00:32:15,803 --> 00:32:17,892 Maybe because, the British foreign office, 575 00:32:18,066 --> 00:32:19,763 as well as the CIA, 576 00:32:20,025 --> 00:32:22,331 quickly scrambled to bury the story 577 00:32:22,592 --> 00:32:25,160 as a piece of cold war misinformation, 578 00:32:25,465 --> 00:32:27,423 planted by the Russians. 579 00:32:27,815 --> 00:32:31,819 As a result, The South African Institute for Maritime Research, 580 00:32:32,124 --> 00:32:36,824 or in short, SAIMR, remains mostly uncharted territory. 581 00:32:37,956 --> 00:32:40,045 man: It is not impossible that the account 582 00:32:40,219 --> 00:32:42,090 carried by these documents is genuine, 583 00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:44,788 but it is just as possible that they are 584 00:32:45,006 --> 00:32:46,834 a well-informed fabrication. 585 00:32:52,753 --> 00:32:55,364 - Are you talking? - No. Now I will be dictating. 586 00:32:55,538 --> 00:32:56,931 Dictating. Okay. 587 00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:03,285 Mads: What little we know about SAIMR today, 588 00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:05,984 is thanks to the South African journalist, 589 00:33:06,288 --> 00:33:07,463 De Wet Potgieter. 590 00:33:07,898 --> 00:33:09,988 Back in the early 90s, he met with a man 591 00:33:10,162 --> 00:33:11,337 who claimed to be 592 00:33:12,077 --> 00:33:15,689 the Commodore of SAIMR. A man named Keith Maxwell. 593 00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:17,604 Potgieter: He described himself as commander 594 00:33:17,778 --> 00:33:20,128 of the SAIMR's military unit, Delta. 595 00:33:21,042 --> 00:33:22,043 And... 596 00:33:22,478 --> 00:33:24,437 what he told me... He said that... 597 00:33:25,525 --> 00:33:30,095 the unit is a successor of a 184-year old organization, 598 00:33:30,443 --> 00:33:32,836 first formed by a group of British mariners. 599 00:33:33,054 --> 00:33:35,056 Preferring to remain anonymous... 600 00:33:35,578 --> 00:33:39,365 the group's interests are diverse. 601 00:33:43,717 --> 00:33:45,371 Some orders come from London, 602 00:33:45,545 --> 00:33:48,374 and others are initiated here in South Africa. 603 00:33:51,159 --> 00:33:52,421 De Wet Potgieter... 604 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,599 takes the only photo 605 00:33:57,383 --> 00:33:59,211 known to me of Maxwell. 606 00:34:02,736 --> 00:34:03,650 This is him. 607 00:34:05,391 --> 00:34:07,871 The leader of SAIMR. The Commodore. 608 00:34:12,311 --> 00:34:14,791 You see how he is dressed in white? 609 00:34:15,009 --> 00:34:15,966 Clarinah: White, he is. 610 00:34:16,228 --> 00:34:17,533 Mads: I think because... 611 00:34:18,578 --> 00:34:20,797 SAIMR was a maritime organization... 612 00:34:21,102 --> 00:34:22,234 So they claim to be. 613 00:34:22,625 --> 00:34:24,323 But Maxwell was also... 614 00:34:25,193 --> 00:34:26,542 posing as a doctor. 615 00:34:27,021 --> 00:34:29,023 In some quarters, he referred to himself 616 00:34:29,197 --> 00:34:31,504 as Dr. Maxwell Annandale. 617 00:34:31,721 --> 00:34:35,725 But he was not a medical doctor, or any doctor of any sort. 618 00:34:36,422 --> 00:34:39,294 And from what I've gathered when I've seen the surgery, 619 00:34:39,468 --> 00:34:41,601 there were black women lying on beds 620 00:34:41,905 --> 00:34:43,864 with funny machines making beep sounds, 621 00:34:44,082 --> 00:34:46,345 and he was experimenting on black people. 622 00:34:47,215 --> 00:34:48,956 - Mads: Maxwell is dead now. - Saphir: Yeah. 623 00:34:51,089 --> 00:34:53,134 But, while being there, I managed to... 624 00:34:53,656 --> 00:34:56,224 - find the widow of Maxwell. - Yes. 625 00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:58,183 - Her name is Diane... - Mm-hmm. 626 00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,662 ...and I speak with her on the phone 627 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,274 while I'm driving around during night time 628 00:35:02,535 --> 00:35:05,015 on the highways of Johannesburg. 629 00:35:06,887 --> 00:35:08,323 Diane: My marriage was very difficult. 630 00:35:09,629 --> 00:35:12,327 That's the way it is. It became very difficult for me. 631 00:35:12,545 --> 00:35:14,460 And I don't enjoy... 632 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,550 the past being brought up, actually. 633 00:35:17,898 --> 00:35:20,161 Mads: Can I ask, were you afraid of Keith? 634 00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,423 Was he abusive? 635 00:35:27,255 --> 00:35:30,911 Diane: Not physically, no. Verbally, mentally, maybe. 636 00:35:31,259 --> 00:35:32,304 Mads: Yes. 637 00:35:33,957 --> 00:35:36,569 Did he ever mention the former 638 00:35:36,743 --> 00:35:39,963 United Nations Secretary General Dag Hammarskjold? 639 00:35:42,009 --> 00:35:43,880 Diane: I think he might have mentioned it, 640 00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:45,752 once or twice, maybe. 641 00:35:46,056 --> 00:35:47,057 But he didn't say much. 642 00:35:47,754 --> 00:35:49,190 He just said that this chap had died. 643 00:35:49,625 --> 00:35:51,149 And that was about it. 644 00:35:53,281 --> 00:35:55,457 Mads: Do you know anything about SAIMR? 645 00:35:55,631 --> 00:35:57,894 The South African Maritime Research Institute? 646 00:35:58,068 --> 00:35:59,592 Did he share any information with you about that? 647 00:35:59,766 --> 00:36:01,855 Diane: It was the organization that 648 00:36:02,029 --> 00:36:05,032 my husband set up for some reason or other, yes. 649 00:36:05,685 --> 00:36:09,341 Mads: But what did he tell you that the organization was about? 650 00:36:11,952 --> 00:36:13,562 - Diane: What it was about? - Mads: Yeah? 651 00:36:13,997 --> 00:36:15,912 Diane: He just set it up, but, I don't know why he set it up. 652 00:36:17,566 --> 00:36:20,047 If you want my frank opinion, I think my husband 653 00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:23,181 was probably a little bit mentally ill. 654 00:36:24,094 --> 00:36:25,226 Uh, yeah. 655 00:36:25,835 --> 00:36:28,186 At the end, I think he was mentally ill. 656 00:36:28,403 --> 00:36:30,100 I thought, he was just playing games. 657 00:36:31,189 --> 00:36:33,756 And he used to play games, but, yeah. 658 00:36:35,541 --> 00:36:36,933 Playing with other people's minds, 659 00:36:37,107 --> 00:36:38,457 to see what that would do. 660 00:36:39,197 --> 00:36:41,242 And she tells me some very disturbing things 661 00:36:41,416 --> 00:36:42,939 - about Maxwell. - Okay. 662 00:36:43,375 --> 00:36:44,506 How he liked to... 663 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,944 manipulate other people, play with their minds. 664 00:36:48,293 --> 00:36:49,163 Hmm. 665 00:36:49,859 --> 00:36:53,776 - How abusive and evil he was. - He was, yeah. 666 00:36:54,342 --> 00:36:56,910 - How evil was he? - Well, you know what he did? 667 00:36:57,171 --> 00:36:58,303 No? 668 00:36:58,651 --> 00:37:00,783 He was running a number of clinics 669 00:37:01,175 --> 00:37:02,959 - in the black townships... - Yes. 670 00:37:03,612 --> 00:37:05,484 ...pretending to be a medical doctor. 671 00:37:06,049 --> 00:37:07,921 man: Surname Maxwell Annandale. 672 00:37:08,138 --> 00:37:09,227 Yeah. 673 00:37:09,966 --> 00:37:11,751 Mads: The surgery where De Wet Potgieter met 674 00:37:12,012 --> 00:37:15,102 Keith Maxwell in the early 90s, is now gone. 675 00:37:15,885 --> 00:37:18,671 man: Keith Maxwell Annandale, or Keith Annandale, 676 00:37:18,845 --> 00:37:22,588 or Keith Maxwell Annandale, as a double-barreled surname. 677 00:37:22,892 --> 00:37:25,330 Yeah. But they said the name as Keith Maxwell. 678 00:37:25,591 --> 00:37:27,027 Keith Maxwell Annandale. 679 00:37:27,506 --> 00:37:30,117 Mads: But Potgieter discovers that Maxwell had 680 00:37:30,291 --> 00:37:31,814 more than one surgery. 681 00:37:34,382 --> 00:37:36,123 Potgieter: Is the old lady, is she inside here? 682 00:37:39,474 --> 00:37:41,302 Potgieter: Keith Maxwell Annandale? 683 00:37:41,737 --> 00:37:44,653 Oh, yeah. Was he a doctor or something? 684 00:37:45,001 --> 00:37:47,177 - Goran: Yes, exactly. - Yeah, he had a place 685 00:37:47,352 --> 00:37:49,832 down the road there, but, it used to be the old post office. 686 00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:51,747 - Oh, he had the surgery here? - That's correct. 687 00:37:52,008 --> 00:37:53,662 - Goran: Oh, that's interesting. - Potgieter: Was he wearing 688 00:37:53,836 --> 00:37:56,578 - a white safari suit? - That's correct. 689 00:37:57,275 --> 00:38:00,408 We discovered that he was running a number of clinics 690 00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:02,889 in the townships around Johannesburg... 691 00:38:03,106 --> 00:38:04,020 Clarinah: Mm-hmm. 692 00:38:04,891 --> 00:38:06,632 ...offering medical assistance to black people 693 00:38:06,806 --> 00:38:08,111 at a very low cost. 694 00:38:13,465 --> 00:38:14,596 Here! 695 00:38:16,381 --> 00:38:17,425 This. 696 00:38:18,905 --> 00:38:20,602 Oh, yeah. We even have the name. 697 00:38:20,820 --> 00:38:21,777 There's it. 698 00:38:22,474 --> 00:38:24,606 - Yeah, exactly. - man: Come stand here. 699 00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:29,524 "Dr. Maxwell." There's it. 700 00:38:41,275 --> 00:38:44,322 And, at that point in time, Goran and I, we... 701 00:38:46,628 --> 00:38:49,196 we had difficulties finding out what these clinics 702 00:38:49,805 --> 00:38:50,937 were about. 703 00:38:51,590 --> 00:38:53,853 Why was he running these clinics? 704 00:38:54,723 --> 00:38:57,813 And people we talk to, tell us about how he was 705 00:38:57,987 --> 00:39:00,163 experimenting on black people. 706 00:39:03,819 --> 00:39:07,388 I could just find his car in the whole... 707 00:39:08,215 --> 00:39:09,999 - That's his car there. - Oh, that's his car. 708 00:39:11,740 --> 00:39:14,874 The clients who came here, did they seem to be satisfied 709 00:39:15,048 --> 00:39:16,571 with the treatment they got? 710 00:39:16,789 --> 00:39:18,617 - man: No, no, no. - Goran: They were not? 711 00:39:18,791 --> 00:39:21,228 He was more of a chancer. You know, 712 00:39:21,402 --> 00:39:23,752 because I used to sit with him and see what he'd do. You know. 713 00:39:24,144 --> 00:39:26,364 - Potgieter: Quack? - Yes, he was a quack. 714 00:39:26,538 --> 00:39:28,104 He made his money out of this. 715 00:39:28,322 --> 00:39:30,106 He had a drum there and put them in a drum 716 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,586 and rolled them in the drum. 717 00:39:31,978 --> 00:39:35,590 He gave them false injections, you know? [laughs] 718 00:39:36,635 --> 00:39:38,158 Potgieter: He gave injections to them also? 719 00:39:38,419 --> 00:39:40,552 - Yes. - He was a surgeon. 720 00:39:40,726 --> 00:39:41,988 - man: Surgeon? - Yeah, as a surgeon. 721 00:39:42,205 --> 00:39:43,772 When you came here... 722 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,472 Plenty of people sitting outside waiting for the doctor. 723 00:39:48,429 --> 00:39:50,213 I know his name, because at home, 724 00:39:50,388 --> 00:39:51,389 I think I got... 725 00:39:51,606 --> 00:39:52,607 - Was it Dr. Maxwell? - Yeah. 726 00:39:52,825 --> 00:39:53,782 - Was it Dr. Maxwell? - Yeah. 727 00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:55,393 He was an old man. 728 00:39:57,656 --> 00:39:59,397 He put it on the machine. 729 00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:01,486 Flex your hands. 730 00:40:01,921 --> 00:40:04,140 There was a mystery about him, you know? 731 00:40:05,707 --> 00:40:08,014 Minding his own little things, you know? 732 00:40:08,754 --> 00:40:10,843 Potgieter: And apparently he was very quiet. 733 00:40:11,191 --> 00:40:13,323 Oh. very, very quiet. But, a sharpshooter. 734 00:40:13,498 --> 00:40:14,934 Potgieter: Sharpshooter, yes. 735 00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:17,937 Yeah, they came to rob him. 736 00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:21,680 And he shot one or two guys dead. 737 00:40:22,681 --> 00:40:25,248 He was very good at firearms. Even before he shot somebody. 738 00:40:26,467 --> 00:40:27,816 He was an expert in guns. Of course, 739 00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:29,427 he was a mercenary. You know? 740 00:40:29,949 --> 00:40:32,038 - He was a mercenary? He said that? - Yeah. 741 00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:35,607 - He said that? - Yeah, he used to... 742 00:40:36,259 --> 00:40:40,002 He was hired to go to the Congo and all those African countries. 743 00:40:41,526 --> 00:40:46,226 Did ever talk about a man named Dag Hammarskjold? 744 00:40:47,532 --> 00:40:49,577 Dag Hammarskjold? 745 00:40:54,669 --> 00:40:57,063 Nothing come into my mind. 746 00:41:00,588 --> 00:41:03,330 Mads: Maxwell and Potgieter met several times. 747 00:41:03,548 --> 00:41:06,246 Maxwell fed Potgieter lots of documents 748 00:41:06,507 --> 00:41:07,943 from the files of SAIMR, 749 00:41:08,509 --> 00:41:11,599 amongst them, the first part of a fictionalized account 750 00:41:11,773 --> 00:41:12,861 of Maxwell's life, 751 00:41:13,296 --> 00:41:15,647 entitled "The Story of My Life". 752 00:41:16,604 --> 00:41:17,736 There you are. 753 00:41:18,954 --> 00:41:20,782 It's the story of Maxwell's life, 754 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,436 but fictionalized. 755 00:41:22,915 --> 00:41:27,746 It tells how, as a young man, Maxwell is recruited into SAIMR, 756 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,401 in the memoir simply called "the Marine Institute". 757 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,536 At a farm outside of Johannesburg, 758 00:41:35,754 --> 00:41:38,800 Maxwell is being trained with other SAIMR cadets, 759 00:41:39,409 --> 00:41:41,455 all dressed in whites. 760 00:41:43,588 --> 00:41:46,286 They are given lessons in psychological warfare 761 00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:48,854 and the dark arts in general. 762 00:41:53,641 --> 00:41:55,208 Maxwell's handler in SAIMR 763 00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:57,863 is a strict and stern officer named 764 00:41:58,211 --> 00:41:59,299 Robert Wagman. 765 00:42:02,737 --> 00:42:04,434 At the end of Maxwell's training, 766 00:42:04,957 --> 00:42:07,742 Commander Wagman sends him to the Congo 767 00:42:07,916 --> 00:42:11,311 on a clandestine mission for the Marine Institute. 768 00:42:15,097 --> 00:42:19,667 In the Congo, Maxwell ends up at a secret jungle laboratory, 769 00:42:19,841 --> 00:42:22,975 funded and operated by the U.S. Army. 770 00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:27,196 Here, research is being done into biological warfare 771 00:42:27,501 --> 00:42:30,025 and how to weaponize viruses. 772 00:42:36,075 --> 00:42:38,860 Finally, Keith Maxwell, who calls himself 773 00:42:39,121 --> 00:42:41,123 "Ken Marshall" in his memoir, 774 00:42:41,471 --> 00:42:44,823 has a fallout with the commander of the jungle laboratory, 775 00:42:44,997 --> 00:42:48,217 who expels Maxwell from the premises. 776 00:42:49,392 --> 00:42:52,352 Maxwell then travels to the capital of the Congo, 777 00:42:52,744 --> 00:42:54,789 stays at Hotel Memling for a while, 778 00:42:55,094 --> 00:42:57,705 and then goes back to South Africa. 779 00:42:58,837 --> 00:43:01,796 Here the memoir breaks off, unfinished. 780 00:43:02,144 --> 00:43:04,407 Not a word is written about Dag Hammarskjold 781 00:43:04,712 --> 00:43:07,585 and how he died in September 1961. 782 00:43:08,716 --> 00:43:11,066 [typewriter clacks] 783 00:43:15,244 --> 00:43:19,161 I'm a bit confused, because, there are a lot of names, 784 00:43:19,422 --> 00:43:24,253 and a lot of people that are mentioned here. 785 00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:26,386 Mads: It is a very complicated story. 786 00:43:26,647 --> 00:43:29,171 - Clarinah: Hmm. - Maybe too complicated. 787 00:43:34,612 --> 00:43:37,919 The reason for making it complicated is, of course, 788 00:43:38,224 --> 00:43:40,008 the nine secret documents released 789 00:43:40,226 --> 00:43:42,576 by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission 790 00:43:42,750 --> 00:43:44,099 back in 1998, 791 00:43:44,796 --> 00:43:47,537 outlining a conspiracy to kill Dag Hammarskjold. 792 00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:51,541 "The code name for the operation to kill Dag Hammarskjold 793 00:43:51,759 --> 00:43:53,805 was Operation Celeste." 794 00:43:55,458 --> 00:43:58,636 Mads: Today, 20 years later, the Operation Celeste papers 795 00:43:59,027 --> 00:44:01,987 from SAIMR remain a complete mystery. 796 00:44:02,422 --> 00:44:05,512 No one knows who wrote them, nor why or when. 797 00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:08,384 If the documents are to be trusted as genuine, 798 00:44:08,733 --> 00:44:10,691 it is first and foremost necessary 799 00:44:10,865 --> 00:44:15,130 to prove that SAIMR did exist as a real organization. 800 00:44:15,522 --> 00:44:18,090 The best way to do this, would be to find other members 801 00:44:18,351 --> 00:44:21,180 of SAIMR besides Keith Maxwell. 802 00:44:21,354 --> 00:44:25,053 Because, in theory, all of this could be an elaborate hoax 803 00:44:25,227 --> 00:44:27,969 embedded in reality by Keith Maxwell. 804 00:44:29,754 --> 00:44:32,974 The Operation Celeste papers mention a secret agent 805 00:44:33,148 --> 00:44:34,672 code named "Congo Red", 806 00:44:35,063 --> 00:44:36,848 who works for SAIMR in the Congo. 807 00:44:37,457 --> 00:44:39,851 They also tell how the explosives for the bomb 808 00:44:40,025 --> 00:44:42,201 to kill Dag Hammarskjold were provided 809 00:44:42,375 --> 00:44:44,290 by the Belgian mining corporation, 810 00:44:44,638 --> 00:44:45,770 Union Minière. 811 00:44:46,858 --> 00:44:48,903 The bomb fails to explode at takeoff, 812 00:44:49,077 --> 00:44:50,644 but the agent Congo Red 813 00:44:51,036 --> 00:44:54,256 writes that a contingency plan was activated. 814 00:44:55,214 --> 00:44:56,694 "An 'eagle' is being dispatched." 815 00:44:57,259 --> 00:44:59,522 Most likely a reference to a jet fighter, 816 00:44:59,697 --> 00:45:01,307 and just as Dag Hammarskjold's plane 817 00:45:01,481 --> 00:45:03,657 is about to land at Ndola airport, 818 00:45:04,005 --> 00:45:06,529 the plane crashes, and he dies. 819 00:45:07,487 --> 00:45:11,796 And, in the end, Congo Red confirms the job has been done. 820 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,020 Besides Congo Red, we have an agent for the CIA, 821 00:45:19,194 --> 00:45:20,805 code named "Dwight". 822 00:45:21,066 --> 00:45:23,198 He is to meet his liaison from SAIMR 823 00:45:23,372 --> 00:45:27,289 at the old Leopold II Hotel in the capital of Katanga, 824 00:45:27,507 --> 00:45:29,117 today the Park Hotel. 825 00:45:29,422 --> 00:45:31,772 There is no trace left of Dwight having stayed 826 00:45:31,946 --> 00:45:34,296 at the Hotel in 1961. 827 00:45:34,949 --> 00:45:38,039 The only real names given in the Operation Celeste papers 828 00:45:38,474 --> 00:45:40,868 are names of senior SAIMR officers. 829 00:45:41,434 --> 00:45:43,262 We have a Commodore R. Wagner. 830 00:45:43,610 --> 00:45:47,005 Probably the same person as Commander Robert Wagman, 831 00:45:47,266 --> 00:45:49,921 the officer who was in charge of the Marine Institute 832 00:45:50,182 --> 00:45:51,749 in Maxwell's memoir. 833 00:45:52,271 --> 00:45:55,013 This man seems to be impossible to track down, 834 00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:58,451 and so are Dr. Pike and Captain Ian Kerr. 835 00:45:58,668 --> 00:46:00,583 Oh, man... 836 00:46:01,236 --> 00:46:03,108 Mads: So, the only confirmed member 837 00:46:03,282 --> 00:46:06,502 of SAIMR so far is, Keith Maxwell. 838 00:46:07,373 --> 00:46:09,418 But there could be other members of SAIMR. 839 00:46:09,810 --> 00:46:11,464 I did manage to find this article, 840 00:46:11,638 --> 00:46:12,639 which was published 841 00:46:13,683 --> 00:46:17,165 in theSunday Times Magazine in South Africa in 1989. 842 00:46:17,687 --> 00:46:20,125 Here, a young woman named Debbie Campbell, 843 00:46:20,299 --> 00:46:24,259 talks about how she works for SAIMR and Dr. Keith Maxwell. 844 00:46:25,043 --> 00:46:27,785 Debbie talks about how she was recruited into SAIMR 845 00:46:27,959 --> 00:46:30,788 out of school when she was only 13, 846 00:46:31,179 --> 00:46:34,617 and how she now does research at Maxwell's AIDS clinic. 847 00:46:34,835 --> 00:46:37,403 But Debbie Campbell seems to have vanished 848 00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:38,752 from the face of the earth. 849 00:46:39,405 --> 00:46:41,929 My quest to track her down has been in vain, 850 00:46:42,147 --> 00:46:43,975 and the journalist who wrote the article 851 00:46:44,192 --> 00:46:46,934 claims she has forgotten all about it. 852 00:46:49,415 --> 00:46:51,417 Luckily, there are other names to work on. 853 00:46:51,678 --> 00:46:55,247 In the trove of SAIMR documents which Keith Maxwell handed over 854 00:46:55,421 --> 00:46:58,641 to journalist De Wet Potgieter, several people are mentioned, 855 00:46:58,990 --> 00:47:02,341 including a South African doctor named Claude Newbury. 856 00:47:07,563 --> 00:47:09,522 Mads: Good afternoon. Hello, Mr. Newbury. 857 00:47:10,044 --> 00:47:11,002 Yes. Hello. 858 00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:14,309 I am Mads Brugger. I am a journalist from Denmark. 859 00:47:14,483 --> 00:47:16,224 - Newbury: How do you do? - Fine, thank you. 860 00:47:16,572 --> 00:47:19,227 And this is Goran Bjorkdahl, whom you spoke with before. 861 00:47:19,401 --> 00:47:21,186 - Yes. We spoke on the phone. - How do you do? 862 00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:25,755 I'm interested, how did you guys get my mobile number? 863 00:47:26,626 --> 00:47:28,846 Mads: Dr. Newbury, who is known in South Africa 864 00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:31,718 as a prolife, anti-abortion campaigner, 865 00:47:31,936 --> 00:47:34,895 confirms having befriended Keith Maxwell. 866 00:47:36,810 --> 00:47:39,813 He was a very pleasant person and very humorous. 867 00:47:39,987 --> 00:47:41,989 He was the sort of person who made 868 00:47:42,555 --> 00:47:43,948 lots and lots of jokes, you know, 869 00:47:44,122 --> 00:47:45,688 he could make a joke easily. 870 00:47:46,254 --> 00:47:47,865 One evening... 871 00:47:48,996 --> 00:47:51,564 we were invited to dinner, 872 00:47:52,086 --> 00:47:53,783 and he said, "Well... 873 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,092 would you like to become a member of SAIMR?" 874 00:47:58,745 --> 00:48:01,574 So I said, "What does it entail?" 875 00:48:01,966 --> 00:48:05,883 And it seemed to entail only the investigation, 876 00:48:06,057 --> 00:48:09,103 the research into sunken treasure. 877 00:48:11,149 --> 00:48:13,325 Mads: Please, go on. What happens that evening? 878 00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:16,110 There was a little bit of a ceremony. 879 00:48:16,284 --> 00:48:18,199 He had been dressed up like 880 00:48:18,634 --> 00:48:22,247 an admiral in the British Navy from about 881 00:48:22,725 --> 00:48:25,772 250 years ago. You know, with the... 882 00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:29,515 tricorne hat and a cutlass 883 00:48:29,689 --> 00:48:33,562 and a naval uniform with lots of buttons, and that was it. 884 00:48:33,998 --> 00:48:36,609 - Mads: Who was wearing that? - That was Mr. Maxwell. 885 00:48:36,826 --> 00:48:38,654 - Mads: He was dressed like that? - Yes. Yes. 886 00:48:39,046 --> 00:48:41,135 And then, at a later stage, 887 00:48:41,353 --> 00:48:44,617 he asked me what I thought about the AIDS virus. 888 00:48:44,834 --> 00:48:45,835 Mads: And what did he tell you? 889 00:48:46,575 --> 00:48:50,362 Well, he indicated that he thought it was 890 00:48:50,536 --> 00:48:54,235 a product of biological warfare. 891 00:48:55,193 --> 00:48:58,544 Mads: In fact, Keith Maxwell, was obsessed with AIDS, 892 00:48:58,892 --> 00:49:02,417 writing extensively about how SAIMR was doing research 893 00:49:02,635 --> 00:49:04,245 into the HIV virus, 894 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,553 and the possibility of using the virus as a weapon 895 00:49:07,770 --> 00:49:09,424 to kill black people. 896 00:49:09,859 --> 00:49:13,776 Sorry, Mads, would you tell me, was he infected with AIDS? 897 00:49:14,255 --> 00:49:15,430 - Who, Maxwell? - Maxwell, 898 00:49:15,648 --> 00:49:16,605 - yeah. No. - No. 899 00:49:16,997 --> 00:49:18,956 No, but he was interested in... 900 00:49:19,695 --> 00:49:22,046 using AIDS to kill black people. 901 00:49:23,351 --> 00:49:26,006 In his master plan, Keith Maxwell writes about 902 00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:28,356 how AIDS will play an important role 903 00:49:28,530 --> 00:49:30,793 in South Africa's political future. 904 00:49:31,533 --> 00:49:34,406 "As refugees from the disease pour into South Africa 905 00:49:34,623 --> 00:49:35,537 from the north, 906 00:49:36,234 --> 00:49:37,365 they will bring the virus with them, 907 00:49:37,931 --> 00:49:39,715 and the black population with whom they mingle 908 00:49:39,889 --> 00:49:42,153 will become infected on a large scale." 909 00:49:42,370 --> 00:49:44,764 "As a result..." Maxwell concludes, 910 00:49:44,938 --> 00:49:47,245 South Africa will have "A white majority 911 00:49:47,462 --> 00:49:49,160 in the year 2000." 912 00:49:50,161 --> 00:49:52,380 That's not the person that I know. 913 00:49:53,512 --> 00:49:59,213 Maxwell was trying to discover a cure for the HIV virus. 914 00:49:59,866 --> 00:50:04,392 He wanted me at one time to join, or to start a clinic 915 00:50:04,871 --> 00:50:10,659 in a building out in Benoni where he had visualized a... 916 00:50:11,356 --> 00:50:13,706 How do I say? A medical clinic. 917 00:50:14,141 --> 00:50:18,319 Now, he wasn't a medical doctor, and I am a medical doctor. 918 00:50:18,754 --> 00:50:22,193 And when I said to him, no, I wasn't prepared to do that, 919 00:50:22,367 --> 00:50:24,673 he seemed to be very upset with me, 920 00:50:25,065 --> 00:50:28,112 and that was the end of our relationship. 921 00:50:28,764 --> 00:50:31,245 Mads: Another person mentioned in the SAIMR documents 922 00:50:31,419 --> 00:50:33,291 is a man named René Goor. 923 00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:36,381 According to the documents, he was second in command 924 00:50:36,598 --> 00:50:39,297 in the South African Institute for Maritime Research, 925 00:50:39,819 --> 00:50:42,430 working directly under Commodore Keith Maxwell 926 00:50:42,648 --> 00:50:43,910 in the early 90s. 927 00:50:45,085 --> 00:50:47,348 "Goran and I went to visit him." 928 00:50:47,740 --> 00:50:48,784 Mads: Yes. 929 00:50:49,698 --> 00:50:53,180 And you know what happens? He comes out of the building. 930 00:50:54,616 --> 00:50:58,925 We ask him if he is René Goor, who was in charge of SAIMR, 931 00:50:59,099 --> 00:51:01,014 second in command after Maxwell. 932 00:51:01,319 --> 00:51:03,930 - Clarinah: Hmm. - He says, "Absolutely not." 933 00:51:04,365 --> 00:51:06,715 He has never been involved with SAIMR. 934 00:51:08,456 --> 00:51:10,589 Then, we show him some SAIMR documents 935 00:51:10,806 --> 00:51:12,243 with the signature of René Goor. 936 00:51:13,505 --> 00:51:14,810 I mean, here we have a document... 937 00:51:15,202 --> 00:51:16,073 - Yeah. - [clears throat] 938 00:51:16,856 --> 00:51:19,467 - ...signed by René Goor. - That is my signature. 939 00:51:20,381 --> 00:51:21,295 - It is yours? - Yeah. 940 00:51:21,687 --> 00:51:22,818 Okay. 941 00:51:24,690 --> 00:51:28,041 - So, how can we explain that? - I don't know. 942 00:51:28,476 --> 00:51:30,957 - Mads: How is that possible? - Well, work it out. 943 00:51:32,393 --> 00:51:34,091 And we ask, how come? 944 00:51:34,482 --> 00:51:37,485 And then he says he is the victim of identity theft. 945 00:51:38,007 --> 00:51:40,227 But have they used that identity theft, you know, 946 00:51:40,445 --> 00:51:41,837 for taking out bank loans 947 00:51:42,011 --> 00:51:43,187 - or buying cars? - No, nothing. 948 00:51:43,361 --> 00:51:44,579 Only for this? 949 00:51:45,102 --> 00:51:48,017 - Yeah. It appears to be. - But that is bizarre. 950 00:51:48,409 --> 00:51:49,671 Yeah. It is bizarre. 951 00:51:51,238 --> 00:51:54,459 Mads: Do you know a man named René Goor? 952 00:51:55,721 --> 00:51:57,244 Diane: Yes, I used to know him, 953 00:51:57,636 --> 00:51:59,725 I haven't seen him for many, many years. 954 00:52:00,552 --> 00:52:02,031 Was he a friend of Keith? 955 00:52:05,034 --> 00:52:07,341 I think they were in acting classes together. 956 00:52:07,776 --> 00:52:08,951 They did drama. 957 00:52:10,301 --> 00:52:12,346 - They did drama? -Diane: Acting classes. 958 00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:15,393 Yeah, you know. Put on plays and stuff... 959 00:52:16,263 --> 00:52:18,222 You know, we are just trying to find out 960 00:52:18,396 --> 00:52:20,049 what kind of organization SAIMR was, 961 00:52:20,224 --> 00:52:21,442 and what they were doing. We don't try 962 00:52:21,616 --> 00:52:23,531 to incriminate anybody. So, we just... 963 00:52:23,792 --> 00:52:25,403 - Yeah. I don't know. - ...try to get the information about SAIMR. 964 00:52:25,577 --> 00:52:28,362 We also spoke to a source who said that you did... 965 00:52:29,233 --> 00:52:31,583 drama classes together with Keith Maxwell. 966 00:52:35,369 --> 00:52:38,546 - I did do drama classes. Yes. - Mads: Really? 967 00:52:38,894 --> 00:52:40,766 - Yes. - Mads: What year? 968 00:52:41,984 --> 00:52:43,029 I can't remember. 969 00:52:44,770 --> 00:52:46,511 Before the 90s? 970 00:52:50,602 --> 00:52:53,779 - Goran: Wasn't that with Keith Maxwell? - I can't remember. 971 00:52:54,345 --> 00:52:55,998 Goran: You weren't a close friend to Keith Maxwell? 972 00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:58,349 - No. - What kind of drama was it? 973 00:52:58,566 --> 00:52:59,741 What kind of... 974 00:53:04,311 --> 00:53:07,140 - Nothing serious. - Mads: Was it like Shakespeare? 975 00:53:07,706 --> 00:53:09,534 - No, not at all. - Mads: Was it improv? 976 00:53:09,882 --> 00:53:11,318 Improvisation. 977 00:53:12,232 --> 00:53:13,146 Mads: Yeah. 978 00:53:13,886 --> 00:53:15,714 Goran: That handwriting under the signature... 979 00:53:17,455 --> 00:53:18,804 is that yours? 980 00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:22,764 - This handwriting here. - That is my handwriting. 981 00:53:23,112 --> 00:53:26,028 - It is your handwriting? - Yeah. It is my handwriting. 982 00:53:26,812 --> 00:53:29,162 Mads: So, It's also you writing "Lieutenant commander"? 983 00:53:29,336 --> 00:53:31,730 René: No. Not me, but it is my handwriting. 984 00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:37,866 That is my handwriting, but I don't know this document. 985 00:53:38,780 --> 00:53:42,480 Why on earth would Keith Maxwell and his cohorts... 986 00:53:42,784 --> 00:53:43,698 Yeah. 987 00:53:44,569 --> 00:53:47,049 ...go to this length with stealing your identity? 988 00:53:47,398 --> 00:53:49,835 I don't know, because, I don't know the background 989 00:53:50,052 --> 00:53:51,184 of this organization. 990 00:53:51,445 --> 00:53:53,012 I don't know what they were up to. 991 00:53:53,882 --> 00:53:55,232 Really, I have no idea. 992 00:53:56,972 --> 00:53:58,931 Mads: The SAIMR papers also mention 993 00:53:59,105 --> 00:54:02,239 a South African General named Tienie Groenewald. 994 00:54:02,761 --> 00:54:04,328 Clarinah: "Tienie Groenewald, 995 00:54:05,067 --> 00:54:06,982 former General and Chief Director 996 00:54:07,156 --> 00:54:09,376 of Military Intelligence, 997 00:54:09,855 --> 00:54:12,684 former Air Attaché 998 00:54:13,075 --> 00:54:15,817 at the South African Embassy in London." 999 00:54:16,209 --> 00:54:17,428 Potgieter: And coming back... 1000 00:54:17,906 --> 00:54:19,299 at a particular time he came back, 1001 00:54:19,473 --> 00:54:20,735 and he sort of became 1002 00:54:20,909 --> 00:54:22,781 the chief of Military Intelligence. 1003 00:54:23,564 --> 00:54:26,654 So, since then, he has been involved 1004 00:54:26,828 --> 00:54:28,787 in intelligence work, military Intelligence, 1005 00:54:29,353 --> 00:54:30,310 all his life. 1006 00:54:30,919 --> 00:54:33,792 Goran and I, we go to visit Groenewald. 1007 00:54:34,227 --> 00:54:37,230 And Groenewald tells us that he met two times 1008 00:54:37,448 --> 00:54:38,492 with Maxwell. 1009 00:54:39,014 --> 00:54:40,755 He was neatly dressed, he was well spoken. 1010 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,193 He appeared to be someone who... 1011 00:54:46,021 --> 00:54:47,109 who was in authority. 1012 00:54:48,285 --> 00:54:51,592 He even has Maxwell's name written in his calendar. 1013 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:55,640 Maxwell comes to meet Groenewald, 1014 00:54:55,814 --> 00:54:58,817 and tells him if he is interested in... 1015 00:54:59,252 --> 00:55:00,253 Before apartheid? 1016 00:55:00,732 --> 00:55:02,386 Mads: No, just before apartheid ends. 1017 00:55:02,951 --> 00:55:04,779 - Saphir: Yes. -Mads: In the last days of apartheid. 1018 00:55:05,171 --> 00:55:06,215 Saphir: Yes. 1019 00:55:07,086 --> 00:55:09,654 Mads: Maxwell comes to meet Groenewald and tells him 1020 00:55:10,132 --> 00:55:15,703 if he wants weapons and money for arming white people... 1021 00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:18,576 - to go up against black people... - Black people. 1022 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,317 - ...like a civil war... - Okay. 1023 00:55:20,578 --> 00:55:21,753 ...Maxwell can help him. 1024 00:55:22,144 --> 00:55:23,581 He had the resources... 1025 00:55:25,844 --> 00:55:26,714 to... 1026 00:55:27,585 --> 00:55:28,673 to use violence, 1027 00:55:29,151 --> 00:55:31,719 and to supply weapons and so on and so forth. 1028 00:55:32,067 --> 00:55:33,852 But I was convinced that... 1029 00:55:34,461 --> 00:55:39,336 he was financed and directed by MI6 of British Intelligence. 1030 00:55:40,946 --> 00:55:42,208 How? 1031 00:55:43,122 --> 00:55:44,558 After spending three and a half years 1032 00:55:44,732 --> 00:55:45,690 in Britain, 1033 00:55:46,081 --> 00:55:48,562 you get to know some people involved 1034 00:55:48,736 --> 00:55:50,956 in the intelligence field. 1035 00:55:51,739 --> 00:55:53,741 And certain names which are mentioned 1036 00:55:53,915 --> 00:55:56,309 in our discussion was familiar to him. 1037 00:55:58,050 --> 00:56:00,879 Which told me, well, obviously, he knows these people. 1038 00:56:01,967 --> 00:56:03,142 So, Groenewald... 1039 00:56:04,665 --> 00:56:07,842 was convinced that Maxwell was working for MI6, 1040 00:56:08,277 --> 00:56:09,540 British Intelligence. 1041 00:56:10,454 --> 00:56:12,499 And because of that, he told him no. 1042 00:56:13,282 --> 00:56:14,240 And... 1043 00:56:14,806 --> 00:56:16,068 they never meet again. 1044 00:56:17,504 --> 00:56:18,679 That is very interesting. 1045 00:56:20,464 --> 00:56:23,205 What is also interesting, is that I ask Groenewald 1046 00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,599 if he has ever heard about SAIMR, 1047 00:56:26,121 --> 00:56:28,210 South African Maritime Research Institute, 1048 00:56:28,820 --> 00:56:30,778 and Groenewald says, "Never." 1049 00:56:32,432 --> 00:56:34,434 No. I can't see... 1050 00:56:35,827 --> 00:56:37,481 this organization as really playing 1051 00:56:37,655 --> 00:56:39,047 a significant part. 1052 00:56:40,832 --> 00:56:43,138 If they did, I would have known about it. 1053 00:56:44,792 --> 00:56:46,838 Mads: You have the Operation Celeste papers, 1054 00:56:47,099 --> 00:56:48,622 - right, Goran? - Goran: Some of them, yes. 1055 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,232 - They are here. - Could you show them 1056 00:56:50,494 --> 00:56:51,886 to the General? 1057 00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:54,672 - Just to get his, you know... - Yeah. [clears throat] 1058 00:56:55,194 --> 00:56:56,282 Yes, of course. 1059 00:56:57,196 --> 00:56:58,980 I don't know if you have seen these particular papers. But, 1060 00:56:59,328 --> 00:57:02,810 this is, I think, four documents. 1061 00:57:03,376 --> 00:57:06,423 Here is one giving some orders. 1062 00:57:08,294 --> 00:57:09,208 Groenewald: You see. 1063 00:57:10,209 --> 00:57:13,995 My question always is, is this authentic, or is this... 1064 00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:17,042 Did they try and create an impression... 1065 00:57:17,738 --> 00:57:20,045 that the CIA, for example, was involved? 1066 00:57:21,742 --> 00:57:23,527 Because it is very easy to do this. 1067 00:57:24,092 --> 00:57:25,311 Let me say... 1068 00:57:25,964 --> 00:57:28,749 that you would be very, very careful, 1069 00:57:29,533 --> 00:57:31,317 if the CIA was involved, 1070 00:57:31,926 --> 00:57:33,711 of putting something like this on paper. 1071 00:57:34,538 --> 00:57:36,191 If you do, then it's highly... 1072 00:57:38,542 --> 00:57:39,673 It's not professional. 1073 00:57:40,544 --> 00:57:41,806 Not professional at all. 1074 00:57:47,115 --> 00:57:49,161 I don't even know what to think. 1075 00:57:57,125 --> 00:58:00,955 But if it was something real... 1076 00:58:02,914 --> 00:58:09,137 wouldn't this person, who was the commander of the military... 1077 00:58:10,095 --> 00:58:11,488 like, um... 1078 00:58:13,446 --> 00:58:15,448 know anything about it? 1079 00:58:16,275 --> 00:58:17,494 Exactly. 1080 00:58:18,059 --> 00:58:22,194 "How come Groenewald had never heard about SAIMR?" 1081 00:58:35,729 --> 00:58:39,646 Sorry, did you finish the story? Are we done? 1082 00:58:39,951 --> 00:58:41,169 - About SAIMR? - Yeah. 1083 00:58:42,083 --> 00:58:45,086 - About Maxwell and... - Yes, for now, because we come back to... 1084 00:58:45,696 --> 00:58:47,349 - We go back to - We come back to South Africa later. 1085 00:58:47,524 --> 00:58:48,525 Okay, yeah. Okay. 1086 00:58:49,351 --> 00:58:51,571 man: So, this camera guy was standing somewhere there, 1087 00:58:51,745 --> 00:58:53,051 - and they took it that way. - [machine beeping] 1088 00:58:53,225 --> 00:58:54,574 Goran: You still have the road here... 1089 00:58:55,140 --> 00:58:57,882 No, but listen, it is here! I'm getting a massive reading! 1090 00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:59,274 Goran: Yeah. 1091 00:59:00,754 --> 00:59:02,321 - Mads: It is here! -Goran: Yeah. It's here. 1092 00:59:02,582 --> 00:59:03,975 - You found it. -Mads: It is freaking out! 1093 00:59:04,541 --> 00:59:05,716 - Goran: Yeah. We found it. -[machine beeping] 1094 00:59:14,855 --> 00:59:16,378 Goran: Yeah, so we found the spot. 1095 00:59:17,423 --> 00:59:19,120 The question is, how deep down is it? 1096 00:59:19,556 --> 00:59:20,600 man: That's the question. 1097 00:59:21,166 --> 00:59:23,472 You can see on the photos. it's... I mean, it's... 1098 00:59:25,257 --> 00:59:27,172 - three, four meters. - Deep. 1099 00:59:27,912 --> 00:59:29,348 - According to this. - Yeah. 1100 00:59:29,653 --> 00:59:31,655 - Can we do some digging here? - Yeah. 1101 00:59:32,133 --> 00:59:33,570 - Yeah? - Yes. 1102 00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:37,704 Now, something very interesting happens. 1103 00:59:38,705 --> 00:59:41,316 It's April 2014. 1104 00:59:42,796 --> 00:59:44,189 - Saphir: Yes. - Mads: A cable sent 1105 00:59:44,450 --> 00:59:47,279 from U.S. Ambassador to the Congo, Ed Gullion... 1106 00:59:47,496 --> 00:59:50,499 - Yeah. - ...on 18th September 1961, 1107 00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:52,937 is declassified. 1108 00:59:54,112 --> 00:59:56,375 The cable from Ambassador Ed Gullion 1109 00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:57,942 to U.S. State Department 1110 00:59:58,333 --> 01:00:00,466 was transmitted hours before the crash site 1111 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,337 was located officially. 1112 01:00:03,251 --> 01:00:05,819 The Ambassador informs that Hammarskjold's plane 1113 01:00:06,167 --> 01:00:09,693 may have been shot down by a Belgian mercenary pilot, 1114 01:00:10,041 --> 01:00:13,958 identified by a "Usually reliable source" as, 1115 01:00:14,523 --> 01:00:15,568 "Van Riesseghel". 1116 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,178 He misspells the name a little bit, 1117 01:00:17,352 --> 01:00:19,093 but it's Jan van Risseghem... 1118 01:00:19,790 --> 01:00:21,748 a Belgian mercenary pilot. 1119 01:00:23,358 --> 01:00:27,101 Here, Risseghem is seen in his Fouga Magister 93, 1120 01:00:27,580 --> 01:00:30,017 the jet fighter most likely to have been used 1121 01:00:30,278 --> 01:00:32,716 for attacking Dag Hammarskjold's plane. 1122 01:00:33,455 --> 01:00:36,502 The only problem is, Jan van Risseghem is dead. 1123 01:00:39,070 --> 01:00:42,682 In Spain, we meet former Belgian paratrooper, 1124 01:00:43,074 --> 01:00:44,292 Pierre Coppens, 1125 01:00:44,815 --> 01:00:46,860 who was a friend of Risseghem. 1126 01:00:49,384 --> 01:00:54,520 I met Jan van Risseghem in 1965. 1127 01:00:54,738 --> 01:01:00,221 He was the pilot of the National Parachutism Center in Moorsele. 1128 01:01:02,833 --> 01:01:06,140 And gradually, Risseghem tells Coppens 1129 01:01:06,750 --> 01:01:10,405 that he was the one who attacked Dag Hammarskjold's plane. 1130 01:01:11,929 --> 01:01:15,541 He explained me that the distance was too long, 1131 01:01:16,237 --> 01:01:19,284 so, I mean, he can arrive to the destination, 1132 01:01:19,501 --> 01:01:21,155 but he cannot come back. 1133 01:01:21,416 --> 01:01:23,070 Mads: And from where did he take off? 1134 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:24,768 Pierre: Kipushi. 1135 01:01:25,682 --> 01:01:26,944 - Mads: Kipushi? - Pierre: Yes. 1136 01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:29,598 Kipushi. 1137 01:01:36,649 --> 01:01:39,173 [speaking in French] So, this is... 1138 01:01:39,696 --> 01:01:45,049 the old Kipushi airfield. 1139 01:01:45,310 --> 01:01:48,835 What he say that, "I take off from in the jungle, 1140 01:01:49,009 --> 01:01:50,881 so I'm in the bush... 1141 01:01:51,185 --> 01:01:54,362 - Mads: Yes. - ...on a runway who was made... 1142 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,149 by the bulldozers from the Union Minière." 1143 01:01:58,453 --> 01:02:02,762 [speaking in French] So, later on, people have taken 1144 01:02:02,936 --> 01:02:05,069 the pavement, 1145 01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:09,813 which was made from gravel from the mine. 1146 01:02:10,030 --> 01:02:14,165 They had the gravel, levelled, but people have taken it. 1147 01:02:14,382 --> 01:02:17,429 But then, he explained me another thing that nobody knows. 1148 01:02:17,821 --> 01:02:19,910 This is where we believe van Risseghem took off 1149 01:02:20,171 --> 01:02:21,955 in his Fouga Magister... 1150 01:02:22,608 --> 01:02:26,003 - 17th September 1961? - Yeah. 1151 01:02:26,612 --> 01:02:27,831 We believe he was capable. 1152 01:02:28,222 --> 01:02:30,137 It was not normally long enough for a jet plane, 1153 01:02:30,311 --> 01:02:32,357 but he had a special technique, you know, for... 1154 01:02:32,574 --> 01:02:33,880 [bike engine revs] 1155 01:02:34,228 --> 01:02:36,448 ...when taking off and landing with the plane. 1156 01:02:37,275 --> 01:02:40,844 He make a small tank but he put down... 1157 01:02:42,367 --> 01:02:45,718 I believe he put under this tank down the airplane 1158 01:02:45,936 --> 01:02:46,937 or on the wings. 1159 01:02:47,807 --> 01:02:51,158 Mads: He attached an extra gasoline tank to the plane. 1160 01:02:51,463 --> 01:02:54,858 He said, "Then I have more reserve for starting... 1161 01:02:56,511 --> 01:03:00,515 because I push, I push a lot of power... 1162 01:03:00,733 --> 01:03:02,953 - Mads: Yes. - ...to take off." 1163 01:03:03,127 --> 01:03:04,084 Mads: Yes. 1164 01:03:04,432 --> 01:03:05,564 Hold it there! So... 1165 01:03:06,217 --> 01:03:09,873 it's night, van Risseghem flies his Fouga to Ndola, 1166 01:03:10,047 --> 01:03:12,484 and there he intercepts Hammarskjold's plane? 1167 01:03:12,701 --> 01:03:13,964 - Yes. - man: Okay. 1168 01:03:14,355 --> 01:03:17,968 - Was it a small or a big plane? - A small plane. 1169 01:03:18,272 --> 01:03:21,449 The plane was taking the glide... 1170 01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:25,018 - Mads: Yes. - ...to land, no, with full lights. 1171 01:03:25,410 --> 01:03:26,672 - Hammarskjold's plane? - Yes. 1172 01:03:26,846 --> 01:03:27,978 - Yes. - Pierre: And he say, 1173 01:03:28,674 --> 01:03:31,068 "I arrived from the back." I just from the back I arrive. 1174 01:03:31,372 --> 01:03:33,026 And so he shot. 1175 01:03:33,548 --> 01:03:36,290 And did he say where on the airplane he shot? 1176 01:03:36,769 --> 01:03:39,511 We saw the fire around there. On top of the plane. 1177 01:03:43,732 --> 01:03:45,125 On the left wing. 1178 01:03:45,691 --> 01:03:50,261 We just saw the flash from the sky. 1179 01:03:50,914 --> 01:03:52,524 Yes, because of the wing tanks. 1180 01:03:53,351 --> 01:03:55,614 When you have ammunition which is explosive... 1181 01:03:56,310 --> 01:04:00,053 you just shoot on the wing, and it will explode. 1182 01:04:00,619 --> 01:04:03,796 It began to burn, and then it crashed. 1183 01:04:08,061 --> 01:04:12,979 This is, in fact, a picture of the person who 1184 01:04:13,458 --> 01:04:15,416 basically killed Dag Hammarskjold. 1185 01:04:15,677 --> 01:04:16,722 Yes. 1186 01:04:17,418 --> 01:04:18,724 Yes. 1187 01:04:22,597 --> 01:04:28,560 But did van Risseghem feel any kind of remorse, any... 1188 01:04:28,952 --> 01:04:30,562 - No. - No? 1189 01:04:30,779 --> 01:04:31,824 No. 1190 01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:33,608 - Nothing? - No, no. 1191 01:04:33,913 --> 01:04:36,002 Did he tell you who gave him the order 1192 01:04:36,176 --> 01:04:37,438 - to bring down the plane? - No. 1193 01:04:39,353 --> 01:04:40,702 But what is interesting is, 1194 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,053 we also learned that Risseghem was 1195 01:04:43,531 --> 01:04:45,185 Belgian and British. 1196 01:04:46,578 --> 01:04:49,798 And during the war, he worked for the Royal Air Force, 1197 01:04:50,060 --> 01:04:52,410 specializing in night-time operations. 1198 01:04:52,758 --> 01:04:53,759 [typewriter clacks] 1199 01:04:54,325 --> 01:04:58,459 And his code name was "The Lone Ranger". 1200 01:04:59,025 --> 01:05:02,811 "The Lone Ranger" was his name in England. 1201 01:05:03,595 --> 01:05:05,205 - In the World War II. - Goran: Oh. 1202 01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:08,600 Because he was flying with a Hawker Hurricane, 1203 01:05:09,035 --> 01:05:11,908 always night time, and always alone. 1204 01:05:12,909 --> 01:05:15,346 - Goran: Interesting. - Mads: So he was known as "The Lone Ranger"? 1205 01:05:15,607 --> 01:05:16,782 - Yes. - Mads: Yes. 1206 01:05:17,609 --> 01:05:20,046 And it was a man that we were aware of. 1207 01:05:20,699 --> 01:05:23,180 A Belgian mercenary pilot 1208 01:05:23,832 --> 01:05:26,183 who we called "The Lone Ranger". 1209 01:05:26,357 --> 01:05:29,882 Was it your impression that in army circles, 1210 01:05:30,143 --> 01:05:31,318 mercenary circles... 1211 01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,757 that people knew that van Risseghem was the one 1212 01:05:35,932 --> 01:05:37,324 who brought down Hammarskjold's plane? 1213 01:05:37,542 --> 01:05:38,760 In Brussels, yes. 1214 01:05:39,457 --> 01:05:42,242 When some people talked about van Risseghem, I said, 1215 01:05:42,416 --> 01:05:46,377 "Ah, everybody knows that he shot down this plane." 1216 01:05:48,161 --> 01:05:49,423 It was common knowledge? 1217 01:05:49,902 --> 01:05:51,121 - Yes. - Goran: But how come 1218 01:05:51,295 --> 01:05:54,167 that nobody has spoken to the press... 1219 01:05:54,951 --> 01:05:56,865 the media, about it? 1220 01:05:57,910 --> 01:06:00,086 Mads: This is a copy of Jan van Risseghem's 1221 01:06:00,391 --> 01:06:02,915 pilot logbook from his time in the Congo. 1222 01:06:03,785 --> 01:06:05,483 The only period not accounted for, 1223 01:06:05,657 --> 01:06:06,658 in the logbook 1224 01:06:07,528 --> 01:06:09,617 are the days shortly before and after the death 1225 01:06:09,922 --> 01:06:10,967 of Dag Hammarskjold. 1226 01:06:12,620 --> 01:06:15,362 Furthermore, the one writing in his pilot logbook 1227 01:06:15,536 --> 01:06:17,712 is his wife, Marion. 1228 01:06:20,019 --> 01:06:23,022 So, you know, how is that to be trusted? 1229 01:06:25,633 --> 01:06:28,027 What is that? Why are you filming? 1230 01:06:32,031 --> 01:06:33,859 Hello, Ms. Van Risseghem? 1231 01:06:34,860 --> 01:06:37,123 My name is Mads Brugger. I'm a journalist from Denmark. 1232 01:06:38,472 --> 01:06:40,213 Clearly, what is all this about? 1233 01:06:40,735 --> 01:06:42,520 Well, it's about... This is Goran Bjorkdahl. 1234 01:06:42,737 --> 01:06:43,869 - He's from Sweden. - Hello. 1235 01:06:44,957 --> 01:06:46,872 No! Not this Hammarskjold thing again! 1236 01:06:47,177 --> 01:06:48,308 It's Hammarskjold... 1237 01:06:52,443 --> 01:06:53,748 Do you have just like two minutes? 1238 01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:56,186 I just need to ask you a very important question. 1239 01:06:57,883 --> 01:06:58,840 Oh. 1240 01:07:12,898 --> 01:07:15,596 Then, soon after, Goran... 1241 01:07:18,904 --> 01:07:20,819 "The UN appoints... 1242 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,997 an expert panel of three persons." 1243 01:07:25,563 --> 01:07:28,174 [clanks] 1244 01:07:30,785 --> 01:07:33,005 Mads: Acting on the report from the commission of jurists, 1245 01:07:33,745 --> 01:07:37,096 the UN appoints a three-person expert panel, 1246 01:07:37,314 --> 01:07:40,447 tasked with evaluating the new body of evidence 1247 01:07:40,708 --> 01:07:42,667 in the Dag Hammarskjold crash. 1248 01:07:46,366 --> 01:07:48,064 And they learn about Goran's metal plate. 1249 01:07:48,977 --> 01:07:50,762 Remember? The one with the little holes. 1250 01:07:52,111 --> 01:07:53,939 [talking in foreign language] This is a part of... 1251 01:07:54,418 --> 01:07:55,288 The plane? 1252 01:07:56,202 --> 01:07:57,638 - Probably a part of the plane, yes. - For real? 1253 01:07:57,812 --> 01:08:00,685 That's awesome, so it's a part of history. 1254 01:08:00,859 --> 01:08:01,729 Yes. 1255 01:08:02,165 --> 01:08:03,992 Well... 1256 01:08:05,124 --> 01:08:06,343 The UN has appointed 1257 01:08:07,387 --> 01:08:10,695 a panel of experts who are going to investigate 1258 01:08:10,956 --> 01:08:12,958 if he was murdered. 1259 01:08:13,785 --> 01:08:15,961 I'm going to give the plate to them tonight. 1260 01:08:16,135 --> 01:08:19,834 They will investigate, if it really was a part of the plane. 1261 01:08:20,183 --> 01:08:23,229 It's almost certain it is. 1262 01:08:23,577 --> 01:08:25,579 And they come to Stockholm to meet with Goran, 1263 01:08:25,797 --> 01:08:28,191 and he hands over the metal plate. 1264 01:08:30,106 --> 01:08:32,369 We are hoping, of course, that this metal plate 1265 01:08:32,543 --> 01:08:34,327 is the smoking gun. 1266 01:08:41,552 --> 01:08:42,640 Goran: Nice to meet you. 1267 01:08:45,686 --> 01:08:46,905 Mads: It's a bit like in films, 1268 01:08:47,123 --> 01:08:49,081 when people have to dig their own grave. 1269 01:08:50,952 --> 01:08:57,872 [both pant] 1270 01:08:59,091 --> 01:09:02,573 I just need a timeout, Goran. I'm about to be throwing up. 1271 01:09:02,834 --> 01:09:04,357 - Oh, Jesus. - [Mads pants] 1272 01:09:06,011 --> 01:09:07,404 Can I give a hand? 1273 01:09:12,974 --> 01:09:16,108 - Goran, did you have the gel? - Yes. 1274 01:09:16,413 --> 01:09:18,241 Because I'm having blisters. 1275 01:09:19,633 --> 01:09:22,245 If they are broken, you know, it may be good to clean them. 1276 01:09:22,506 --> 01:09:23,681 It hurts a lot. 1277 01:09:25,857 --> 01:09:27,032 It hurts a lot. 1278 01:09:27,598 --> 01:09:28,642 There you go. 1279 01:09:30,122 --> 01:09:32,124 Mads: Saphir, you remember I told you... 1280 01:09:32,907 --> 01:09:36,563 Goran met with the three man expert panel in Sweden? 1281 01:09:36,824 --> 01:09:37,695 Saphir: Yeah. 1282 01:09:38,609 --> 01:09:42,787 They took the metal plate to FBI laboratories in... 1283 01:09:43,483 --> 01:09:44,876 - the USA... - Yeah. 1284 01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:46,356 and they tested the plate... 1285 01:09:47,183 --> 01:09:48,619 and the conclusion was... 1286 01:09:49,446 --> 01:09:52,797 the plate has zero probative value. 1287 01:09:53,406 --> 01:09:55,452 It has never been inside a plane, 1288 01:09:55,887 --> 01:09:57,715 it probably comes from a Land Rover, 1289 01:09:58,281 --> 01:09:59,499 and the holes in it... 1290 01:10:00,021 --> 01:10:01,762 does not come from ammunition. 1291 01:10:02,850 --> 01:10:04,548 - Okay. - You understand? 1292 01:10:04,765 --> 01:10:05,679 Yeah. 1293 01:10:06,376 --> 01:10:08,943 - It's bad news for Goran. - [chuckles] 1294 01:10:14,862 --> 01:10:16,734 Mads: Amazingly, we are given permission 1295 01:10:17,038 --> 01:10:19,432 to start digging inside the airport. 1296 01:10:19,737 --> 01:10:22,392 But then, suddenly, someone calls from Lusaka... 1297 01:10:23,349 --> 01:10:25,786 and tells the airport to stop this. 1298 01:10:26,831 --> 01:10:28,876 They don't want us to be digging for the wreckage. 1299 01:10:29,268 --> 01:10:30,182 Saphir: Okay. 1300 01:10:32,489 --> 01:10:35,100 So you know, all so close, but no cigar. 1301 01:10:35,448 --> 01:10:36,406 [chuckles] 1302 01:10:37,015 --> 01:10:38,495 Permission has to come from somewhere else. 1303 01:10:39,887 --> 01:10:40,801 I, you know... 1304 01:10:41,628 --> 01:10:44,022 My principle is that it's better to ask for forgiveness 1305 01:10:44,196 --> 01:10:45,110 than permission. 1306 01:10:45,806 --> 01:10:47,982 - [snorts] No, no, no. - No? 1307 01:10:48,244 --> 01:10:49,636 Okay. No, in the airport, no. 1308 01:10:49,941 --> 01:10:51,421 In the airport, it's better to ask for permission 1309 01:10:51,595 --> 01:10:53,423 - than forgiveness. - [exhales] 1310 01:11:13,704 --> 01:11:14,705 [spits] 1311 01:11:31,156 --> 01:11:32,766 Goran: Isn't that a bit too early? 1312 01:11:33,854 --> 01:11:35,856 It's never too early for cigars, Goran. 1313 01:11:40,557 --> 01:11:42,341 - You're shaking. - Yeah. 1314 01:11:43,908 --> 01:11:45,126 All the... 1315 01:11:47,346 --> 01:11:49,827 all the activities with looking for the wreckage has 1316 01:11:50,044 --> 01:11:51,742 really gone to my nerves. 1317 01:11:55,311 --> 01:11:58,444 [airplane engine revving] 1318 01:12:01,142 --> 01:12:03,057 I thought you were a cool man, Mads? 1319 01:12:03,449 --> 01:12:04,537 No, but, you know... 1320 01:12:09,150 --> 01:12:10,238 You know the feeling you have, 1321 01:12:10,674 --> 01:12:12,371 when you're really close to something, but... 1322 01:12:13,198 --> 01:12:17,028 then you are further away than ever before? 1323 01:12:21,902 --> 01:12:24,340 Saphir: Is that the reason this story is still a mystery? 1324 01:12:25,515 --> 01:12:28,779 - Mads: What? - The reason why it became also fiction? 1325 01:12:30,084 --> 01:12:31,259 Mads: It's not... 1326 01:12:31,869 --> 01:12:33,653 - This is not fiction. - Okay. 1327 01:12:34,524 --> 01:12:36,961 - This is a documentary. - A documentary? All right. 1328 01:12:37,222 --> 01:12:38,397 But... 1329 01:12:46,710 --> 01:12:49,103 Mads: To be honest, I was never really interested 1330 01:12:49,321 --> 01:12:50,714 in the legacy of Dag Hammarskjold. 1331 01:12:51,062 --> 01:12:53,020 Because, at the end of the day, 1332 01:12:53,281 --> 01:12:55,936 most people have never heard about Dag Hammarskjold. 1333 01:12:56,372 --> 01:12:58,591 And when you get to see him, he comes across 1334 01:12:58,809 --> 01:13:01,507 as a goofy character from a screwball comedy. 1335 01:13:04,728 --> 01:13:06,730 The explanation is a very simple one. 1336 01:13:07,165 --> 01:13:10,081 Mads: For me, Dag Hammarskjold was most of all a ticket 1337 01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:12,562 to all the things I really enjoy. 1338 01:13:12,823 --> 01:13:14,607 Tracking down Belgian mercenaries, 1339 01:13:15,173 --> 01:13:17,567 telling tales of evil men who dress in white. 1340 01:13:17,958 --> 01:13:20,526 The ace of spades found at crime scenes. 1341 01:13:21,266 --> 01:13:24,182 Rumors about secret African societies. 1342 01:13:24,878 --> 01:13:26,924 That is why I went along for the ride, 1343 01:13:27,315 --> 01:13:29,448 not really knowing where it would lead. 1344 01:13:40,894 --> 01:13:44,028 For six years, Goran and I, worked the murder case. 1345 01:13:44,724 --> 01:13:47,161 We travelled all over Africa and Europe, 1346 01:13:47,466 --> 01:13:49,076 roaming around in archives 1347 01:13:49,337 --> 01:13:52,515 and conducting enormous amounts of interviews 1348 01:13:52,819 --> 01:13:55,431 with elderly white, liver-spotted men. 1349 01:13:58,521 --> 01:14:00,523 We did have a few wins along the way. 1350 01:14:02,089 --> 01:14:04,440 In the archives of a former British spy, 1351 01:14:04,657 --> 01:14:07,094 we discovered a never before seen telex, 1352 01:14:07,617 --> 01:14:10,358 from the rebel leader of Katanga, Moise Tshombe, 1353 01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:11,534 to the Prime Minister 1354 01:14:12,186 --> 01:14:13,579 of the British Protectorate, Rhodesia. 1355 01:14:14,232 --> 01:14:17,322 Here, Tshombe asks for having two fighter jets 1356 01:14:17,583 --> 01:14:19,019 delivered immediately. 1357 01:14:19,672 --> 01:14:22,632 The telex is dated the day before Hammarskjold 1358 01:14:22,849 --> 01:14:26,113 was to come to Ndola for peace talks with Tshombe. 1359 01:14:26,592 --> 01:14:27,637 But no one knows 1360 01:14:28,333 --> 01:14:29,856 if the fighter jets were ever delivered. 1361 01:14:30,509 --> 01:14:31,989 And, not to forget, we found this 1362 01:14:32,206 --> 01:14:33,773 never before published picture 1363 01:14:33,991 --> 01:14:36,080 of Hammarskjold's plane after the crash. 1364 01:14:36,863 --> 01:14:39,126 It shows a big hole in the tail fin. 1365 01:14:39,431 --> 01:14:42,347 But, when all is said and done, it's just a hole 1366 01:14:42,739 --> 01:14:44,175 and, who knows? 1367 01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,006 So, I began looking for a way out, 1368 01:14:49,180 --> 01:14:51,138 because one thing I do care about 1369 01:14:51,443 --> 01:14:52,923 is my own legacy. 1370 01:14:55,926 --> 01:14:58,015 It's because when they found Hammarskjold's body... 1371 01:14:58,842 --> 01:15:01,235 he had a playing card in his shirt collar. 1372 01:15:02,367 --> 01:15:03,411 And... 1373 01:15:04,587 --> 01:15:06,502 I met a man who told me that... 1374 01:15:07,415 --> 01:15:08,504 he was at the crash site 1375 01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:10,549 that the playing card sitting in his shirt collar 1376 01:15:10,723 --> 01:15:11,898 was the ace of spades. 1377 01:15:17,556 --> 01:15:19,863 If Goran Bjorkdahl and I, did not manage 1378 01:15:20,037 --> 01:15:21,212 to crack open the case, 1379 01:15:21,691 --> 01:15:24,824 I would employ all the old tricks of my trade. 1380 01:15:26,043 --> 01:15:27,914 Costume play and role play. 1381 01:15:28,219 --> 01:15:31,570 Pith helmets and dressing up like Dr. Maxwell. 1382 01:15:32,266 --> 01:15:33,833 This is also why I hatched the idea 1383 01:15:34,007 --> 01:15:35,879 about employing not only one... 1384 01:15:36,923 --> 01:15:38,534 but two African secretaries, 1385 01:15:39,143 --> 01:15:42,146 hoping they would somehow save my shipwrecked film 1386 01:15:42,363 --> 01:15:43,930 with their mere presence. 1387 01:15:44,757 --> 01:15:47,804 If you ask me, why two secretaries, not one? 1388 01:15:48,326 --> 01:15:49,936 - Are we rolling? - man: Yes. 1389 01:15:50,458 --> 01:15:51,895 Mads: I cannot explain it. 1390 01:15:53,113 --> 01:15:54,985 So, Clarinah, where were we? 1391 01:15:55,159 --> 01:15:57,640 It was an experiment. 1392 01:15:59,163 --> 01:16:01,905 In short, I was hoping this charade would cover up 1393 01:16:02,079 --> 01:16:03,602 my failures as a journalist. 1394 01:16:04,385 --> 01:16:07,780 But instead, something much worse happened. 1395 01:16:08,259 --> 01:16:10,348 All my fantasies came true. 1396 01:16:10,914 --> 01:16:14,352 To be more precise, unknowingly, Goran Bjorkdahl and I, 1397 01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:17,703 were on the verge of discovering a kind of horror 1398 01:16:17,964 --> 01:16:21,141 which would put all my shenanigans to shame. 1399 01:16:22,665 --> 01:16:24,623 There are still some question marks here. 1400 01:16:25,624 --> 01:16:27,670 There's a lot of question marks, Goran. 1401 01:16:27,887 --> 01:16:28,932 Yeah. [chuckles] 1402 01:16:33,632 --> 01:16:37,418 I think one of us have to go back to South Africa to... 1403 01:16:39,159 --> 01:16:42,815 study SAIMR more. To really... You know, 1404 01:16:43,381 --> 01:16:45,470 get to the heart of the matter. 1405 01:16:53,652 --> 01:16:56,394 You have a list in front of you? 1406 01:16:57,830 --> 01:17:00,311 - Goran: Yes. - What kind of list is that? 1407 01:17:00,659 --> 01:17:04,271 Goran: That is a list of people who responded to an advert that 1408 01:17:04,489 --> 01:17:06,491 Keith Maxwell put out in 1989, 1409 01:17:06,665 --> 01:17:09,537 when he was looking for mercenaries... 1410 01:17:11,235 --> 01:17:13,150 and could be willing to sign up for a... 1411 01:17:14,064 --> 01:17:16,022 military operation in Africa. 1412 01:17:17,633 --> 01:17:19,635 - Mads: For SAIMR? - Goran: For SAIMR, yes. 1413 01:17:20,418 --> 01:17:22,725 We have this long list of names, 1414 01:17:23,247 --> 01:17:24,857 and we are basically going through all the names, 1415 01:17:25,031 --> 01:17:26,554 trying to find their phone numbers. 1416 01:17:28,121 --> 01:17:30,210 [dial tone ringing] 1417 01:17:30,776 --> 01:17:31,821 man: Yeah? 1418 01:17:32,604 --> 01:17:36,042 Mads: I am calling because of a list of men 1419 01:17:36,260 --> 01:17:40,003 who responded to adverts from a group known as SAIMR. 1420 01:17:40,438 --> 01:17:41,526 man: Yes. 1421 01:17:41,831 --> 01:17:43,702 Mads: I believe you are one of them. 1422 01:17:44,137 --> 01:17:45,051 man: Yes. 1423 01:17:45,965 --> 01:17:48,098 Mads: What can you tell me about this group? 1424 01:17:48,794 --> 01:17:51,667 man: Well, we cannot talk about it yet. 1425 01:17:52,102 --> 01:17:53,016 It's a bit dangerous. 1426 01:17:53,973 --> 01:17:57,977 So, we are not too keen on talking about things. 1427 01:17:58,674 --> 01:18:02,547 - [dial tone ringing] -man: My own involvement in... 1428 01:18:03,330 --> 01:18:04,941 the forces that'd be at the time 1429 01:18:05,158 --> 01:18:07,683 and the implications thereof, and what we had to do 1430 01:18:07,944 --> 01:18:09,902 and get up to. Well, you know... 1431 01:18:10,860 --> 01:18:13,601 I don't know if I am willing to divulge anything on that. 1432 01:18:14,211 --> 01:18:16,082 Goran: Okay. But can you at least confirm 1433 01:18:16,256 --> 01:18:17,693 that SAIMR was real? 1434 01:18:17,867 --> 01:18:19,782 That it did exist at one point in time? 1435 01:18:19,999 --> 01:18:21,131 man: I can't... 1436 01:18:21,784 --> 01:18:24,438 I'm not at the liberty of speaking about it, Sir. 1437 01:18:24,830 --> 01:18:25,918 [dial tone ringing] 1438 01:18:26,919 --> 01:18:28,268 man: What I did, I did. 1439 01:18:28,616 --> 01:18:31,184 And what I did, as far as I'm concerned, 1440 01:18:31,402 --> 01:18:32,838 I was doing the right thing. 1441 01:18:33,447 --> 01:18:35,623 And yeah. We'll leave it at that. 1442 01:18:36,363 --> 01:18:40,150 You must find other people that are maybe willing to discuss it, 1443 01:18:40,367 --> 01:18:42,065 because I am definitely not. 1444 01:18:42,456 --> 01:18:43,893 [dial tone ringing] 1445 01:18:46,722 --> 01:18:48,898 man: Where did you get my number from? 1446 01:18:49,942 --> 01:18:51,683 It's not open to the public. 1447 01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:53,946 [dial tone ringing] 1448 01:18:56,688 --> 01:18:59,038 Goran: Yeah, since most of these people have 1449 01:18:59,386 --> 01:19:01,388 shown to be unwilling to speak on the phone, 1450 01:19:01,606 --> 01:19:04,870 we will just, you know, go to their houses 1451 01:19:05,044 --> 01:19:06,916 and try to approach them, you know. 1452 01:19:07,655 --> 01:19:09,919 Some may just tell us to fuck off, 1453 01:19:10,136 --> 01:19:11,703 and others may be willing to talk. 1454 01:19:13,052 --> 01:19:14,184 Goran and I, we... 1455 01:19:15,533 --> 01:19:16,621 find the street address... 1456 01:19:17,361 --> 01:19:19,711 corresponding to one of the names, a man named Clive. 1457 01:19:21,365 --> 01:19:22,932 Are you speaking about the Maritime Research? 1458 01:19:23,106 --> 01:19:24,194 Are you speaking of that, are you? 1459 01:19:24,455 --> 01:19:25,543 - Yes. - Yes. 1460 01:19:25,935 --> 01:19:26,892 Oh, I know, I done training with them 1461 01:19:27,414 --> 01:19:29,155 - for about three months. - Three months? 1462 01:19:29,460 --> 01:19:32,202 And then, afterwards, everything went basically quiet. 1463 01:19:32,593 --> 01:19:33,551 Okay? 1464 01:19:34,378 --> 01:19:35,727 I can try and look. I know, I've got a certificate 1465 01:19:35,901 --> 01:19:36,989 that I was issued with. 1466 01:19:37,685 --> 01:19:40,297 - From the Maritime... - Mads: You do? You have that? 1467 01:19:40,471 --> 01:19:41,515 I've got a certificate. 1468 01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:42,690 Mads: Could you find that for us? 1469 01:19:43,691 --> 01:19:45,955 - That would be a great help. - Yes. I can find it for you. 1470 01:19:57,140 --> 01:19:58,228 Clive: Here we go. 1471 01:19:59,751 --> 01:20:01,666 This was 1993. 1472 01:20:02,536 --> 01:20:05,104 - Incredible. - Is it '93? 1473 01:20:05,539 --> 01:20:08,064 - It is the real deal. - Can I take a quick look? 1474 01:20:18,465 --> 01:20:20,728 He went to a secret SAIMR training camp... 1475 01:20:20,990 --> 01:20:22,643 - Mm-hmm. - ...outside Johannesburg, 1476 01:20:23,383 --> 01:20:26,386 where they were wearing white clothes. 1477 01:20:27,126 --> 01:20:28,606 I know, Clive, it's a long time ago, 1478 01:20:28,780 --> 01:20:30,347 but can you recollect... 1479 01:20:31,261 --> 01:20:34,394 names of anybody in charge of SAIMR when you were there? 1480 01:20:36,701 --> 01:20:38,485 There was one guy from the NCIS, whatever, 1481 01:20:38,659 --> 01:20:40,052 the Intelligence Bureau, I remember. 1482 01:20:40,313 --> 01:20:42,446 - And there was an American guy. - An American guy? 1483 01:20:42,707 --> 01:20:44,665 Curly hair, black hair, with a mustache. 1484 01:20:46,885 --> 01:20:49,409 Mads: The American guy is Robert Cedars. 1485 01:20:49,888 --> 01:20:52,586 His résumé reads like a real-life Rambo. 1486 01:20:52,848 --> 01:20:55,546 Ex-Green Beret. Ex-mercenary. 1487 01:20:55,851 --> 01:20:58,288 He has worked for the Anglo-American Mining Corporation 1488 01:20:58,723 --> 01:21:00,159 and the King of Afghanistan. 1489 01:21:00,638 --> 01:21:04,555 And among his listed interests are parapsychology 1490 01:21:04,772 --> 01:21:06,035 and rock 'n' roll. 1491 01:21:08,559 --> 01:21:10,953 [dial tone ringing] 1492 01:21:11,170 --> 01:21:14,130 Mads: Do you remember a man named Keith Maxwell? 1493 01:21:15,827 --> 01:21:18,221 man: I met him a few times. 1494 01:21:18,438 --> 01:21:22,703 He was supposed to organize us as a security guard. 1495 01:21:22,921 --> 01:21:24,357 But I don't know. 1496 01:21:24,967 --> 01:21:27,186 They were supposed to hire me to... 1497 01:21:28,144 --> 01:21:31,190 train people. But, shit, they never did nothing. 1498 01:21:31,364 --> 01:21:33,714 I don't think they went anywhere or did anything. 1499 01:21:33,932 --> 01:21:36,195 So, I don't know what the hell they did. 1500 01:21:36,848 --> 01:21:38,545 I couldn't be bothered with this. 1501 01:21:39,851 --> 01:21:41,331 So, anyway, good luck with whatever 1502 01:21:41,766 --> 01:21:44,029 you're looking for. Find out who killed President Kennedy, 1503 01:21:44,290 --> 01:21:45,813 do something important. 1504 01:21:47,641 --> 01:21:50,906 Mads: Okay, so, in '93, we have you on a farm 1505 01:21:51,167 --> 01:21:52,646 - here in Johannesburg... - Clive: Yes. 1506 01:21:53,517 --> 01:21:57,390 ...training together with Bob Cedars and Maxwell. 1507 01:21:57,608 --> 01:21:59,827 - Dressing in whites? - Whites. Yeah. 1508 01:22:02,526 --> 01:22:04,702 The naval shirt, white pants... 1509 01:22:06,486 --> 01:22:08,662 There wasn't any firearms given to us or anything. 1510 01:22:08,836 --> 01:22:11,013 It was more lectures and that kind of stuff. 1511 01:22:11,404 --> 01:22:14,364 It was based on normal military co-ops. 1512 01:22:16,975 --> 01:22:19,064 - [camera shutter clicks] - Mads: Perfect. 1513 01:22:21,023 --> 01:22:22,241 Fascinating. 1514 01:22:26,115 --> 01:22:29,118 Then, Goran and I called another name of the list, 1515 01:22:29,596 --> 01:22:31,685 a man named Alexander Jones. 1516 01:22:35,254 --> 01:22:36,690 [dial tone ringing] 1517 01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:39,780 -Alexander: Hello. - Yes, hello, Mr. Jones? 1518 01:22:40,216 --> 01:22:41,130 Alexander: Yes. 1519 01:22:41,826 --> 01:22:45,134 And when we phone him, I simply ask him... 1520 01:22:46,352 --> 01:22:49,747 Did you ever hear anybody discuss Dag Hammarskjold 1521 01:22:50,052 --> 01:22:52,141 while you were active in SAIMR? 1522 01:22:53,098 --> 01:22:54,360 [Alexander laughing] 1523 01:22:56,101 --> 01:22:58,277 Alexander: I see, now it's starting to get... 1524 01:22:58,886 --> 01:23:00,279 Now I'm starting to get uncomfortable 1525 01:23:00,453 --> 01:23:01,846 with the questioning. 1526 01:23:02,673 --> 01:23:03,717 And... 1527 01:23:04,414 --> 01:23:05,981 Soon after, we meet with him. 1528 01:23:07,069 --> 01:23:09,941 And he is the guy we have been looking for... 1529 01:23:10,942 --> 01:23:12,465 for six years. 1530 01:23:13,075 --> 01:23:17,079 So, simply put, what is SAIMR? 1531 01:23:18,428 --> 01:23:22,910 Alexander: SAIMR was a clandestine mercenary... 1532 01:23:26,914 --> 01:23:28,742 organization for hire. 1533 01:23:30,918 --> 01:23:32,050 Financed by whom? 1534 01:23:32,442 --> 01:23:33,965 Alexander: Financed by foreign governments. 1535 01:23:35,140 --> 01:23:37,316 And what was the purpose of SAIMR? 1536 01:23:38,187 --> 01:23:40,450 SAIMR was there to go and... 1537 01:23:41,625 --> 01:23:43,496 destabilize certain countries. 1538 01:23:44,715 --> 01:23:46,021 And... 1539 01:23:46,934 --> 01:23:48,197 No, basically... 1540 01:23:49,285 --> 01:23:51,243 we were soldiers. 1541 01:23:51,635 --> 01:23:55,030 And what was your role, specifically? 1542 01:23:55,639 --> 01:23:58,555 Were you in the front lines, so to speak? 1543 01:23:58,729 --> 01:24:03,342 Yes, I was definitely in the front line. 1544 01:24:03,516 --> 01:24:06,911 Operational front line. Hand-to-hand front line. 1545 01:24:07,346 --> 01:24:09,087 Fighting front line. 1546 01:24:10,915 --> 01:24:13,222 Leading operations, if you want to call it that. 1547 01:24:13,613 --> 01:24:15,180 Did you kill people yourself? 1548 01:24:18,053 --> 01:24:19,228 Yes. 1549 01:24:20,881 --> 01:24:23,232 Mads: Is it dangerous for you talking to us about this? 1550 01:24:23,449 --> 01:24:24,494 Alexander: Definitely. 1551 01:24:25,277 --> 01:24:26,626 Very. I mean... 1552 01:24:27,192 --> 01:24:29,368 I could get backlash from my own people. 1553 01:24:31,805 --> 01:24:33,416 You're sitting with a list of names... 1554 01:24:34,373 --> 01:24:36,071 and all of those names on that list... 1555 01:24:36,767 --> 01:24:37,681 are... 1556 01:24:38,116 --> 01:24:39,422 can be verified. 1557 01:24:42,773 --> 01:24:45,906 Mads: But why are you taking that risk, may I ask? 1558 01:24:47,038 --> 01:24:48,909 I think it's about time that we need closure. 1559 01:24:49,084 --> 01:24:50,172 I need personal closure. 1560 01:25:06,144 --> 01:25:08,320 Alexander: Basically, this is... 1561 01:25:09,191 --> 01:25:10,540 operational... 1562 01:25:11,584 --> 01:25:13,151 headquarters for SAIMR. 1563 01:25:18,591 --> 01:25:21,290 You should still be able to see reminiscences 1564 01:25:21,594 --> 01:25:24,336 of military personnel here. 1565 01:25:26,164 --> 01:25:28,123 For example... Oh, we can go. There is the barracks 1566 01:25:28,297 --> 01:25:29,515 down that side. 1567 01:25:33,911 --> 01:25:37,436 Mads: How many people did it involve? SAIMR? 1568 01:25:39,786 --> 01:25:41,397 Anything from... 1569 01:25:42,528 --> 01:25:44,922 - 5,000 people upwards. - Mads: That many? 1570 01:25:45,096 --> 01:25:47,403 That many. So SAIMR was a big organization. 1571 01:25:49,318 --> 01:25:52,364 In front of us now, would have been your main hall, 1572 01:25:52,582 --> 01:25:53,931 which would've been your mess hall 1573 01:25:54,149 --> 01:25:56,586 and your gathering place. 1574 01:25:58,109 --> 01:25:58,979 Look... 1575 01:25:59,893 --> 01:26:02,505 SAIMR was very clever in the way that they operated. 1576 01:26:02,853 --> 01:26:04,420 You and I could be sitting in the same room, 1577 01:26:04,768 --> 01:26:06,248 and you could belong to the medical division 1578 01:26:06,465 --> 01:26:08,946 of SAIMR and I wouldn't know you from a bar of soap. 1579 01:26:09,512 --> 01:26:11,166 [coughs] There would be... 1580 01:26:13,907 --> 01:26:15,344 dinners... formal dinners, you know, 1581 01:26:15,735 --> 01:26:17,563 depends on celebrating different occasions 1582 01:26:17,737 --> 01:26:18,912 in the history of SAIMR. 1583 01:26:19,870 --> 01:26:21,263 That type of stuff. 1584 01:26:22,525 --> 01:26:26,050 Maxwell would come there in his old 18th century 1585 01:26:26,572 --> 01:26:29,009 - commodore's uniform. - Mads: Really? 1586 01:26:29,227 --> 01:26:30,533 - Yeah. - Mads: Like a Lord Nelson? 1587 01:26:30,707 --> 01:26:32,012 That's right. Yeah. 1588 01:26:33,971 --> 01:26:35,190 With a hat... Everything. 1589 01:26:35,755 --> 01:26:36,974 With a sword. 1590 01:26:38,758 --> 01:26:41,674 Look, they were very sucker to the 1800's... 1591 01:26:43,807 --> 01:26:48,551 British naval traditions and attire. 1592 01:26:49,508 --> 01:26:53,338 Especially the hierarchy. We wore normal whites. 1593 01:26:53,860 --> 01:26:55,035 This a picture of... 1594 01:26:56,254 --> 01:26:57,386 - Maxwell. - Goran: Yes. 1595 01:26:57,864 --> 01:26:58,952 - Yes. - Mads: He was looking like that? 1596 01:26:59,605 --> 01:27:01,651 Yes. That's exactly what Commodore Maxwell looked like. 1597 01:27:01,825 --> 01:27:03,218 Mads: Did he wear white all the time? 1598 01:27:03,392 --> 01:27:04,393 All the time. 1599 01:27:05,176 --> 01:27:07,700 I never ever saw him wear anything but white. 1600 01:27:07,961 --> 01:27:10,137 - Mads: Always white? - Always white. 1601 01:27:12,575 --> 01:27:14,403 This is Maxwell. Yeah. 1602 01:27:15,926 --> 01:27:17,449 Very intelligent person. 1603 01:27:19,277 --> 01:27:20,539 Very manipulative. 1604 01:27:24,848 --> 01:27:26,284 He commanded respect. 1605 01:27:26,937 --> 01:27:28,808 If you met him, you just couldn't help 1606 01:27:28,982 --> 01:27:30,114 showing respect to the gentleman. 1607 01:27:30,462 --> 01:27:32,116 - Mads: He was charismatic? - Very. 1608 01:27:33,552 --> 01:27:35,815 But also very dangerous. 1609 01:27:36,555 --> 01:27:38,122 Mads: Dangerous in what way? 1610 01:27:38,383 --> 01:27:40,167 If he didn't like you and if you posed a threat 1611 01:27:40,342 --> 01:27:42,257 to him, he would take you out. 1612 01:27:43,867 --> 01:27:45,216 - Mads: He would simply kill you? - Yeah. 1613 01:27:45,912 --> 01:27:47,740 - Mads: Himself? - By himself, yeah. 1614 01:27:48,741 --> 01:27:51,831 Mads: And what kind of operations were you doing? 1615 01:27:52,484 --> 01:27:53,746 Well, it was clandestine operations. 1616 01:27:53,964 --> 01:27:56,532 We were involved in coups... 1617 01:27:57,054 --> 01:28:00,013 taking over countries for other leaders. 1618 01:28:00,187 --> 01:28:02,712 We were involved in Mozambique... 1619 01:28:04,148 --> 01:28:08,108 spreading the AIDS virus through medical conditions. 1620 01:28:08,283 --> 01:28:13,549 We were involved in Angola with Dr. Jonas Savimbi... 1621 01:28:14,593 --> 01:28:16,769 for various operations. We gave military support. 1622 01:28:17,553 --> 01:28:20,643 Mads: So, people were killed during these operations? 1623 01:28:20,947 --> 01:28:22,122 Oh, definitely. 1624 01:28:23,210 --> 01:28:25,952 - Goran: You mentioned... - Goran, can we... 1625 01:28:26,126 --> 01:28:28,128 I'll just do the question again and then you can come in? 1626 01:28:28,303 --> 01:28:29,434 Goran: Okay. 1627 01:28:29,869 --> 01:28:33,351 Mads: You mentioned actively spreading AIDS? 1628 01:28:34,396 --> 01:28:37,399 There was a unit from SAIMR. 1629 01:28:38,487 --> 01:28:42,229 That... One of the things was that we went into... 1630 01:28:44,754 --> 01:28:47,974 - African countries. - Mads: And how was that done, exactly? 1631 01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:51,108 - Through inoculation. - Mads: Through vaccines? 1632 01:28:51,282 --> 01:28:52,588 Yeah, through vaccines. 1633 01:28:53,023 --> 01:28:56,548 Pretending to inoculate people and that type of thing. 1634 01:28:56,809 --> 01:28:59,943 Mads: The idea being to kill black people? 1635 01:29:00,117 --> 01:29:01,858 Yeah. To eradicate black people. 1636 01:29:02,728 --> 01:29:05,688 You must understand, the concept was that AIDS was a killer. 1637 01:29:06,123 --> 01:29:08,125 It was incurable at that point in time, 1638 01:29:08,604 --> 01:29:13,086 so it was let to believe that if you infected people... 1639 01:29:13,913 --> 01:29:15,611 it was "The quick..." 1640 01:29:16,829 --> 01:29:18,831 "non-militaristic..." 1641 01:29:19,832 --> 01:29:20,833 approach... 1642 01:29:21,834 --> 01:29:22,966 to eliminate... 1643 01:29:23,706 --> 01:29:24,620 black people. 1644 01:29:25,577 --> 01:29:27,753 Mads: And that is something you know for a fact? That... 1645 01:29:28,580 --> 01:29:33,193 AIDS was actively being spread to other countries? 1646 01:29:33,498 --> 01:29:35,718 Yes. To African countries. 1647 01:29:36,153 --> 01:29:38,329 Before we continue with Alexander Jones... 1648 01:29:39,156 --> 01:29:43,378 I should tell you about the case of Dagmar Feil. 1649 01:29:49,209 --> 01:29:51,298 [woman laughing] 1650 01:29:51,951 --> 01:29:53,736 - woman: Isn't it beautiful? - woman 2: It's fantastic! 1651 01:29:53,910 --> 01:29:55,259 woman: Like, home from home. Hey, Dagmar, 1652 01:29:55,564 --> 01:29:56,869 smile for the camera. 1653 01:29:58,393 --> 01:29:59,916 I happened to discover... 1654 01:30:00,873 --> 01:30:04,399 a advert placed in a South African newspaper... 1655 01:30:05,312 --> 01:30:06,357 from SAIMR... 1656 01:30:07,053 --> 01:30:10,796 where they are looking for the killers of Dagmar Feil. 1657 01:30:12,494 --> 01:30:13,495 And... 1658 01:30:16,106 --> 01:30:18,935 We managed to find the brother of Dagmar Feil, 1659 01:30:19,239 --> 01:30:20,327 Karl Feil. 1660 01:30:20,719 --> 01:30:22,547 woman: Shake it out. Shake the thing. 1661 01:30:23,374 --> 01:30:24,549 [car horn honking] 1662 01:30:29,075 --> 01:30:30,729 My sister came to me and she said to me 1663 01:30:30,903 --> 01:30:33,384 she needed to confide in me. She needed to sit with me. 1664 01:30:34,994 --> 01:30:36,082 And... 1665 01:30:38,563 --> 01:30:41,087 - Sorry, I just... - No worries. Of course. 1666 01:30:42,524 --> 01:30:44,656 I have a lot of guilt about it, because... 1667 01:30:47,964 --> 01:30:49,487 She actually sat with me and said to me, 1668 01:30:49,661 --> 01:30:51,663 she thinks that they are going to kill her. 1669 01:30:52,969 --> 01:30:55,450 - She told you that? - Yeah, and I said to her, who? 1670 01:30:55,841 --> 01:30:57,539 And she said she doesn't know, but she thinks 1671 01:30:57,713 --> 01:30:58,844 they're after her. 1672 01:30:59,628 --> 01:31:02,282 And she said that they'd already killed three or four people 1673 01:31:03,109 --> 01:31:05,242 in the same team that she was a part of. 1674 01:31:05,460 --> 01:31:06,722 And I said what team? And she said 1675 01:31:06,896 --> 01:31:07,940 she couldn't tell me. 1676 01:31:08,506 --> 01:31:09,681 The other thing she said is, 1677 01:31:09,942 --> 01:31:11,378 she needs to come to church with me. 1678 01:31:11,596 --> 01:31:12,945 She needs to make right with God. 1679 01:31:13,424 --> 01:31:16,819 She fully expects to be dead within the next couple of weeks. 1680 01:31:17,428 --> 01:31:21,258 His sister, Dagmar, was recruited into SAIMR. 1681 01:31:23,086 --> 01:31:26,698 She had a background as a marine biologist. 1682 01:31:28,352 --> 01:31:30,528 So I believe you got your matric results? 1683 01:31:31,181 --> 01:31:32,399 I mean university? 1684 01:31:32,661 --> 01:31:33,923 University results. Yeah. 1685 01:31:34,097 --> 01:31:36,316 - How did it go? - It was very good. 1686 01:31:36,882 --> 01:31:38,623 - What do you mean by "Good"? - [laughs] 1687 01:31:38,971 --> 01:31:42,148 - Well, I passed. - How well did you pass? 1688 01:31:43,976 --> 01:31:45,500 She did mention... 1689 01:31:46,109 --> 01:31:47,937 in no particular detail, that... 1690 01:31:48,590 --> 01:31:50,592 what she'd studied was particularly helpful 1691 01:31:50,809 --> 01:31:52,202 in the work that she was doing then. 1692 01:31:52,550 --> 01:31:53,856 In other words, the research element 1693 01:31:54,073 --> 01:31:56,032 of what she did in marine biology was being... 1694 01:31:56,554 --> 01:31:59,252 she was using on a daily basis in this particular role. 1695 01:31:59,775 --> 01:32:01,690 But what I found very peculiar, is that she had 1696 01:32:01,864 --> 01:32:03,213 a regular office job, 1697 01:32:03,692 --> 01:32:05,868 working as a secretary 1698 01:32:06,346 --> 01:32:08,087 and admin assistant in Johannesburg. 1699 01:32:08,305 --> 01:32:11,656 But yet, she was doing all this research behind the scenes. 1700 01:32:12,265 --> 01:32:14,354 But she never ever told me what it was. 1701 01:32:15,051 --> 01:32:16,835 Mads: Was it like working in a laboratory? 1702 01:32:17,009 --> 01:32:17,880 Yes. 1703 01:32:18,271 --> 01:32:19,577 - Mads: In a laboratory? - Yes. 1704 01:32:20,056 --> 01:32:21,318 - Mads: Clinical research? - Yes. 1705 01:32:21,623 --> 01:32:24,321 - Mads: But where? - She never told me. 1706 01:32:25,801 --> 01:32:29,369 The topic of AIDS research came up several times, 1707 01:32:29,544 --> 01:32:31,023 quite loosely, in conversation. 1708 01:32:31,850 --> 01:32:33,765 I never put two and two together. 1709 01:32:34,723 --> 01:32:38,117 And she became a white supremacist. 1710 01:32:39,336 --> 01:32:43,340 And she travelled to Mozambique 1711 01:32:43,558 --> 01:32:48,171 and other African countries bordering with South Africa... 1712 01:32:49,128 --> 01:32:50,086 to... 1713 01:32:55,395 --> 01:32:56,571 bring vaccines... 1714 01:32:58,442 --> 01:32:59,443 to people there. 1715 01:33:00,009 --> 01:33:01,880 Countries such as Mozambique, Angola... 1716 01:33:02,054 --> 01:33:05,710 Yes. Swaziland, Botswana came up several times. 1717 01:33:06,493 --> 01:33:09,192 Mads: But she discovers that these vaccines 1718 01:33:09,409 --> 01:33:10,759 from SAIMR are... 1719 01:33:11,586 --> 01:33:12,674 contaminated, 1720 01:33:13,239 --> 01:33:15,111 and she wants to tell... 1721 01:33:16,591 --> 01:33:19,419 the police, the authorities, about what is going on. 1722 01:33:19,985 --> 01:33:21,944 But before she manages to do so, 1723 01:33:22,335 --> 01:33:23,510 she is murdered. 1724 01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:27,036 Karl: And I dashed across Johannesburg 1725 01:33:27,210 --> 01:33:28,472 and got to her apartment. 1726 01:33:28,907 --> 01:33:31,344 and I found her white VW Beetle parked in front 1727 01:33:31,562 --> 01:33:33,172 of the security gates of her flat. 1728 01:33:34,217 --> 01:33:35,653 I found her lying in the street. 1729 01:33:38,787 --> 01:33:39,831 Mads: Yeah. 1730 01:33:42,921 --> 01:33:44,227 Sorry. 1731 01:33:48,013 --> 01:33:49,754 Such a long time ago, and it is still 1732 01:33:50,189 --> 01:33:51,190 a bit of a shock. 1733 01:33:51,713 --> 01:33:54,280 - It's November 1990? - Yeah. 1734 01:33:55,151 --> 01:33:57,109 Mads: Did the police investigate this... 1735 01:33:57,893 --> 01:33:59,068 - murder? - man: No. 1736 01:33:59,764 --> 01:34:02,898 They had absolutely no interest in pursuing the case at all. 1737 01:34:03,942 --> 01:34:06,641 - Mads: Why? - I can't tell you. 1738 01:34:11,471 --> 01:34:13,299 Then, we go to see Alexander Jones. 1739 01:34:13,865 --> 01:34:15,084 Alexander: We were at war. 1740 01:34:15,693 --> 01:34:18,653 Black people in South Africa were the enemy. 1741 01:34:21,133 --> 01:34:23,092 So it was about white supremacy? 1742 01:34:23,353 --> 01:34:24,354 Definitely. 1743 01:34:25,529 --> 01:34:27,487 Definitely trying to retain the white supremacy 1744 01:34:27,662 --> 01:34:28,880 on the African continent. 1745 01:34:30,099 --> 01:34:33,232 And furthermore, he tells us that the purpose 1746 01:34:33,406 --> 01:34:34,886 of Maxwell's clinics 1747 01:34:35,408 --> 01:34:36,627 in and around Johannesburg, 1748 01:34:37,323 --> 01:34:39,630 was to infect black people with... 1749 01:34:41,197 --> 01:34:42,459 HIV. 1750 01:34:43,025 --> 01:34:45,157 He had the one in Thokoza. He had the one in Alex. 1751 01:34:45,418 --> 01:34:46,550 Mads: Yes. 1752 01:34:47,116 --> 01:34:48,421 If I'm not mistaken, there was one on the East 1753 01:34:48,595 --> 01:34:49,684 or on the West Rand. 1754 01:34:49,988 --> 01:34:51,729 And these were research facilities 1755 01:34:51,903 --> 01:34:53,600 for them to inject 1756 01:34:54,166 --> 01:34:55,124 people... 1757 01:34:55,820 --> 01:34:57,517 with a "solution"... 1758 01:34:58,257 --> 01:34:59,998 to say that they prevented AIDS in it. 1759 01:35:00,172 --> 01:35:02,522 In the meantime, they were injecting people with AIDS. 1760 01:35:03,393 --> 01:35:04,786 Mads: And he was only working on black people 1761 01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:06,091 - in these clinics? - Yes. 1762 01:35:06,831 --> 01:35:08,398 - Mads: For almost nothing? - Yeah. 1763 01:35:08,703 --> 01:35:11,053 That's what I am saying. So, you know, what I mean... 1764 01:35:12,358 --> 01:35:14,578 What easier way to get a big guinea pig? 1765 01:35:15,710 --> 01:35:17,233 That you live in an apartheid system... 1766 01:35:17,799 --> 01:35:19,322 Black people have got no rights. 1767 01:35:20,018 --> 01:35:21,454 They need medical treatment. 1768 01:35:21,977 --> 01:35:22,847 There's a... 1769 01:35:23,587 --> 01:35:25,415 white "philanthropist" coming in and saying, 1770 01:35:25,589 --> 01:35:26,938 "You know what? I'll open up these clinics 1771 01:35:27,112 --> 01:35:28,940 and I'll treat you. I'll do..." 1772 01:35:30,028 --> 01:35:31,943 this in the meantime, you're actually... 1773 01:35:33,162 --> 01:35:34,729 the wolf in sheep's clothing. 1774 01:35:37,209 --> 01:35:38,907 That's gruesome. 1775 01:36:02,844 --> 01:36:04,410 Mads: Did you visit these clinics yourself? 1776 01:36:04,671 --> 01:36:05,977 Yes. I went to the clinic in Alex, 1777 01:36:06,195 --> 01:36:07,936 where there was the research facility. 1778 01:36:08,501 --> 01:36:12,157 And there was monitors. There was tubes, there was... 1779 01:36:12,941 --> 01:36:16,379 A proper lab. If you wanna say, a scientist's lab, 1780 01:36:16,553 --> 01:36:18,816 you know, a proper, freaky scientist's lab. Definitely. 1781 01:36:19,425 --> 01:36:21,601 Goran: Were there clinics also in other countries? 1782 01:36:22,864 --> 01:36:23,952 Well, look... 1783 01:36:24,822 --> 01:36:26,084 I know... 1784 01:36:26,868 --> 01:36:28,347 Personally, that I know of. 1785 01:36:28,521 --> 01:36:31,089 Our base of operation for this project 1786 01:36:31,263 --> 01:36:32,438 was in Mozambique. 1787 01:36:33,396 --> 01:36:34,919 - That I can tell you. - Mads: Where Dagmar Feil 1788 01:36:35,093 --> 01:36:36,225 - was working? - Yes. 1789 01:36:37,313 --> 01:36:40,185 He knew about Dagmar Feil and what she did. 1790 01:36:41,186 --> 01:36:43,841 She was recruited to do medical research 1791 01:36:44,015 --> 01:36:45,364 in Maxwell's labs. 1792 01:36:46,626 --> 01:36:47,671 In Alexander. 1793 01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,935 And then obviously she progressed and became 1794 01:36:51,109 --> 01:36:52,371 a part of the inner circle 1795 01:36:52,937 --> 01:36:55,070 for the operations, and she went to Mozambique 1796 01:36:55,635 --> 01:36:56,723 to fulfill her... 1797 01:36:58,247 --> 01:36:59,291 obligations. 1798 01:37:00,075 --> 01:37:00,945 And... 1799 01:37:02,077 --> 01:37:03,165 when it came... 1800 01:37:03,992 --> 01:37:06,472 word got out that she was going to testify. 1801 01:37:09,214 --> 01:37:11,434 Mads: She was going to inform the authorities about SAIMR... 1802 01:37:11,608 --> 01:37:13,262 - Correct, yes. - ...and the spread of AIDS? 1803 01:37:13,436 --> 01:37:14,437 That's right. 1804 01:37:15,090 --> 01:37:16,091 And... 1805 01:37:16,656 --> 01:37:18,267 I think it's well known in our circles that 1806 01:37:18,441 --> 01:37:20,573 it was SAIMR themselves that took her out. 1807 01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:27,493 Mads: But why would SAIMR place that advert? 1808 01:37:29,104 --> 01:37:30,148 Why wouldn't they? 1809 01:37:30,845 --> 01:37:33,412 - Mads: It's like a decoy? - Exactly. 1810 01:37:37,112 --> 01:37:39,288 Mads: Another possible spin is, there was an interview 1811 01:37:39,854 --> 01:37:41,638 published in South Africa 1812 01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:44,989 with Maxwell and an ensign, a woman named Debbie. 1813 01:37:45,598 --> 01:37:47,600 - She is the young lady? - Mads: Yes. 1814 01:37:47,774 --> 01:37:48,732 - Yes. - Mads: And... 1815 01:37:49,124 --> 01:37:50,125 Wait, she was at school, 1816 01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:51,648 and they recruited her from school. 1817 01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:53,693 Mads: Yes. We have tried to track her down, 1818 01:37:53,868 --> 01:37:55,217 - but we can't find her. - No. I don't think 1819 01:37:55,391 --> 01:37:56,783 she is around anymore. 1820 01:37:57,219 --> 01:37:58,698 - Mads: You don't think she is alive anymore? - Yeah. 1821 01:37:58,873 --> 01:38:00,135 Goran: Could that be Dagmar Feil? 1822 01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:01,614 Mads: No, no, it's not that one. 1823 01:38:01,876 --> 01:38:02,920 It's not. It's two different women. 1824 01:38:03,225 --> 01:38:04,269 Mads: Her name is Debbie Campbell. 1825 01:38:05,227 --> 01:38:07,577 - Goran: In the article, yes? - No, but Debbie is blonde. 1826 01:38:15,237 --> 01:38:16,673 Mads: Would the South African... 1827 01:38:17,413 --> 01:38:19,371 government, the apartheid regime, 1828 01:38:19,676 --> 01:38:23,245 would they have known that SAIMR was spreading AIDS 1829 01:38:23,506 --> 01:38:25,551 inside South Africa, and outside as well, 1830 01:38:25,725 --> 01:38:26,901 to kill off black people? 1831 01:38:29,729 --> 01:38:30,948 Highly likely. 1832 01:38:32,210 --> 01:38:34,169 That's why I'm telling you. That's very... 1833 01:38:35,257 --> 01:38:37,085 That's why people were killed for it. 1834 01:38:37,259 --> 01:38:38,869 Mads: That's why Dagmar Feil was killed maybe? 1835 01:38:39,043 --> 01:38:39,914 Yeah. 1836 01:38:41,002 --> 01:38:42,438 That's why Dagmar was killed. 1837 01:38:42,655 --> 01:38:44,266 [Dagmar screams] 1838 01:38:47,312 --> 01:38:49,706 Dagmar: You're wasting the champagne! 1839 01:38:51,621 --> 01:38:55,059 [screams] You're wasting the champagne. 1840 01:38:56,147 --> 01:38:58,541 And after the death of Dagmar, 1841 01:38:59,020 --> 01:39:02,066 Dagmar's mother continues to investigate the case. 1842 01:39:02,371 --> 01:39:05,243 She wants to find out who killed her daughter. 1843 01:39:06,592 --> 01:39:09,813 She tried to give witness about the event 1844 01:39:10,031 --> 01:39:12,642 to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. 1845 01:39:13,077 --> 01:39:15,645 They told her no, because it was too controversial. 1846 01:39:16,646 --> 01:39:19,954 The murderers were never found. The case was not investigated. 1847 01:39:20,606 --> 01:39:21,781 And they would not listen to her. 1848 01:39:22,086 --> 01:39:23,479 In fact, I think, the second or third time 1849 01:39:23,914 --> 01:39:25,698 that she went to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, 1850 01:39:25,872 --> 01:39:26,917 they escorted her out. 1851 01:39:27,570 --> 01:39:29,441 Just the mention of the South African Maritime 1852 01:39:29,615 --> 01:39:31,226 Institute made people nervous. 1853 01:39:31,791 --> 01:39:33,706 They would not listen at all. 1854 01:39:34,881 --> 01:39:36,796 Then she befriends a SAIMR officer, 1855 01:39:36,971 --> 01:39:38,494 I believe maybe it's Maxwell. 1856 01:39:40,235 --> 01:39:43,194 Who feeds her information about SAIMR and her daughter. 1857 01:39:43,542 --> 01:39:44,674 Yes. 1858 01:39:45,022 --> 01:39:45,892 He approached my mum. 1859 01:39:46,589 --> 01:39:47,720 I don't know whether it was out of guilt, 1860 01:39:47,894 --> 01:39:49,984 or just a prick of his conscience. 1861 01:39:50,158 --> 01:39:51,898 He contacted my mother and gave her 1862 01:39:52,073 --> 01:39:53,117 a whole lot of documents. 1863 01:39:53,422 --> 01:39:55,076 I believe they met several times. 1864 01:39:56,033 --> 01:40:00,168 And in there are letterheads of the South African Maritime institute. 1865 01:40:00,907 --> 01:40:02,648 So, this was the first time that I had ever heard 1866 01:40:02,822 --> 01:40:04,128 of that institute. 1867 01:40:04,824 --> 01:40:08,654 Mads: Not long after, we go to an address in Johannesburg, 1868 01:40:09,438 --> 01:40:10,569 where the... 1869 01:40:11,309 --> 01:40:14,921 personal belongings of Dagmar's mother are stored. 1870 01:40:17,533 --> 01:40:19,535 She's dead now. Dagmar's mother. 1871 01:40:20,927 --> 01:40:21,841 And... 1872 01:40:22,712 --> 01:40:25,976 in her belongings we find an address book. 1873 01:40:27,456 --> 01:40:28,500 Goran: Uh-oh. 1874 01:40:29,153 --> 01:40:30,154 - Mads: What, Goran? - I found 1875 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:32,417 - an interesting name here. - Mads: What? 1876 01:40:33,505 --> 01:40:35,246 Goran: Maxwell. "K. Maxwell". 1877 01:40:35,681 --> 01:40:37,335 - Mads: You have Maxwell? - Goran: Yeah. 1878 01:40:39,294 --> 01:40:40,164 Mads: What? 1879 01:40:40,773 --> 01:40:42,819 Would they meet on a regular basis? Or... 1880 01:40:42,993 --> 01:40:45,865 Most of it was telephonic. And then, at one stage, 1881 01:40:46,605 --> 01:40:48,564 she was informed that he's going to Namibia. 1882 01:40:49,043 --> 01:40:51,871 He's fleeing the country. He doesn't feel safe here. 1883 01:40:52,089 --> 01:40:54,265 And he handed all of this documentation to her 1884 01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:56,398 and she never heard from him again. 1885 01:40:56,702 --> 01:40:58,313 Mads: Maxwell was fleeing to Namibia? 1886 01:40:58,748 --> 01:41:01,881 The country of Namibia came up frequently, yes. 1887 01:41:03,318 --> 01:41:05,102 - Goran: René Goor. - Mads: No? 1888 01:41:07,148 --> 01:41:09,454 Here we have it. "Renée Goor." 1889 01:41:10,238 --> 01:41:11,413 "Namibia." 1890 01:41:11,848 --> 01:41:13,371 Alexander: That's René Goor. He was in SAIMR. 1891 01:41:13,545 --> 01:41:15,634 He was destined to take over from... 1892 01:41:16,592 --> 01:41:17,723 Commodore Maxwell. 1893 01:41:18,811 --> 01:41:20,030 Yes. 1894 01:41:20,465 --> 01:41:22,032 And in that book... 1895 01:41:24,513 --> 01:41:26,906 Dagmar's mother has made a... 1896 01:41:29,083 --> 01:41:30,562 a number of notes. 1897 01:41:32,086 --> 01:41:35,350 It says "Police", and then something has been crossed out. 1898 01:41:35,915 --> 01:41:38,048 Then, there's part of a name... 1899 01:41:42,357 --> 01:41:44,837 ending E-N-I-E. 1900 01:41:45,490 --> 01:41:48,580 And then F-R-O-E-R... 1901 01:41:51,627 --> 01:41:54,108 No. This is Groenewald. 1902 01:41:55,457 --> 01:41:58,329 - Goran: It is? - It says "Tienie Groenewald". 1903 01:41:58,764 --> 01:42:00,462 Goran: [whistles] Wow. 1904 01:42:01,245 --> 01:42:05,249 It says "Tienie Groenewald ordered Dagmar's murder 1905 01:42:05,728 --> 01:42:08,339 - plus four others." - Goran: That's incredible. 1906 01:42:11,995 --> 01:42:16,130 In a way, it would make sense. 1907 01:42:17,218 --> 01:42:20,569 I mean, Tienie Groenewald, he was a key person... 1908 01:42:22,223 --> 01:42:24,790 a top figure in the Military Intelligence. 1909 01:42:27,228 --> 01:42:29,839 No. I can't see... 1910 01:42:30,666 --> 01:42:32,494 this organization as really playing 1911 01:42:32,668 --> 01:42:33,886 a significant part. 1912 01:42:35,671 --> 01:42:37,760 If they did, I would have known about it. 1913 01:42:39,022 --> 01:42:40,066 Alexander: He is lying. 1914 01:42:40,502 --> 01:42:41,633 All of South Africa knew about SAIMR. 1915 01:42:42,199 --> 01:42:43,853 Everyone in the military field knew about SAIMR. 1916 01:42:44,593 --> 01:42:45,855 The government knew about SAIMR. 1917 01:42:46,029 --> 01:42:47,161 That's why we were allowed to operate 1918 01:42:47,335 --> 01:42:48,771 out of South African premises. 1919 01:42:50,642 --> 01:42:53,863 Mads: Were they taking orders from South African military? Or? 1920 01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,213 No. I think our orders, our main orders, 1921 01:42:56,387 --> 01:42:57,649 came from the British government. 1922 01:42:58,041 --> 01:42:59,825 - That's my opinion. - Mads: The British government? 1923 01:43:00,043 --> 01:43:01,175 Yeah. Well... 1924 01:43:02,001 --> 01:43:05,222 From our British handlers, controllers or whatever. 1925 01:43:06,745 --> 01:43:07,790 And... 1926 01:43:09,183 --> 01:43:11,794 to this day I still believe that we were 1927 01:43:11,968 --> 01:43:13,839 a sub-unit of some British... 1928 01:43:15,276 --> 01:43:16,277 - Mads: Entity? - ...entity. 1929 01:43:17,234 --> 01:43:19,802 Would you think that's really true? 1930 01:43:29,420 --> 01:43:30,639 You know... 1931 01:43:32,989 --> 01:43:35,731 three days ago, I met Alexander Jones. 1932 01:43:38,037 --> 01:43:39,648 He seemed very credible. 1933 01:43:42,477 --> 01:43:44,522 He doesn't offer any documentation. 1934 01:43:46,176 --> 01:43:50,528 But he sure seems to be a person who is in the know. 1935 01:43:53,096 --> 01:43:55,054 Let's put it this way... 1936 01:43:55,881 --> 01:43:58,101 for four years after I left SAIMR, 1937 01:43:58,406 --> 01:44:01,060 they tried to recruit me back every single month. 1938 01:44:01,496 --> 01:44:03,106 - Mads: Every month? - Every month, Maxwell 1939 01:44:03,324 --> 01:44:06,196 would set up a meeting with me, send somebody, stuff like that. 1940 01:44:06,370 --> 01:44:10,156 And, eventually it became to the point of where... 1941 01:44:12,811 --> 01:44:15,858 they were indicating of threatening my family. 1942 01:44:17,468 --> 01:44:19,644 And Maxwell... I went to his offices one day in Alex, 1943 01:44:19,818 --> 01:44:21,385 and I threatened him. I said to him straight, 1944 01:44:21,559 --> 01:44:22,734 "As much as you know people, 1945 01:44:23,300 --> 01:44:25,215 you've got to remember I've also got my own team." 1946 01:44:25,781 --> 01:44:27,478 I said, "You guys either back off, 1947 01:44:27,870 --> 01:44:29,437 or one of us are gonna die." 1948 01:44:31,047 --> 01:44:32,222 So... 1949 01:44:34,137 --> 01:44:35,921 it ended on bad terms, in the sense of it, 1950 01:44:36,095 --> 01:44:37,749 because, I mean, I'd had enough. I had a family. 1951 01:44:37,923 --> 01:44:39,751 Once I started my family I wasn't single anymore. 1952 01:44:39,925 --> 01:44:40,970 It wasn't just me. 1953 01:44:41,666 --> 01:44:43,146 And I had to take the responsibility. 1954 01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:45,061 So, you know what you do, you... 1955 01:44:46,541 --> 01:44:48,717 My view of thinking is get rid of everything 1956 01:44:48,891 --> 01:44:50,632 that can incriminate you. Or get... 1957 01:44:51,850 --> 01:44:54,113 Mads: So you destroyed everything pointing towards you 1958 01:44:54,288 --> 01:44:57,203 - and SAIMR in having a past together? - Yeah. Yes. 1959 01:44:59,380 --> 01:45:01,338 Mads: But is it bad for the story? 1960 01:45:05,037 --> 01:45:08,693 - "Is it bad for the story?" - Mads: This story. 1961 01:45:08,998 --> 01:45:11,087 - Yes? - Mads: Because... 1962 01:45:11,870 --> 01:45:13,263 it begins... 1963 01:45:14,438 --> 01:45:15,918 with Goran Bjorkdahl and I, 1964 01:45:16,135 --> 01:45:18,181 trying to solve the mystery about 1965 01:45:18,355 --> 01:45:20,009 who killed Dag Hammarskjold. 1966 01:45:20,966 --> 01:45:22,490 - Clarinah: Okay. - Mads: And... 1967 01:45:23,491 --> 01:45:25,014 then, suddenly... 1968 01:45:26,276 --> 01:45:30,019 it's something entirely different. 1969 01:45:32,064 --> 01:45:36,286 But I was going to ask, is the mystery solved? 1970 01:45:36,460 --> 01:45:39,985 Or, have you just switched to something else now? 1971 01:45:40,159 --> 01:45:42,640 Or, you don't mind about... 1972 01:45:43,424 --> 01:45:47,341 what was supposed to be solved in the first place? 1973 01:45:55,218 --> 01:45:56,393 So... 1974 01:45:57,394 --> 01:46:00,266 did the South African Maritime Research Institute... 1975 01:46:01,572 --> 01:46:02,834 kill Dag Hammarskjold? 1976 01:46:06,403 --> 01:46:07,709 I won't say... 1977 01:46:08,536 --> 01:46:09,624 There was involvement. 1978 01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:16,935 Mads: What do you base this theory on? 1979 01:46:19,024 --> 01:46:20,765 Alexander: There were photos that I can recall 1980 01:46:20,939 --> 01:46:22,811 seeing in one of our meetings, 1981 01:46:22,985 --> 01:46:26,510 and it was what they used as a recruitment tool. 1982 01:46:28,469 --> 01:46:29,687 There was... 1983 01:46:31,515 --> 01:46:32,777 one photo... 1984 01:46:33,648 --> 01:46:35,780 where you could see, where all the trees were burnt. 1985 01:46:36,999 --> 01:46:39,784 Where there was a forest, I assume it was a forest. 1986 01:46:40,132 --> 01:46:42,700 All the trees were burnt in it. You could see the ant hills... 1987 01:46:43,571 --> 01:46:48,140 stuff like that. There was a photo of the guys 1988 01:46:48,924 --> 01:46:51,274 in their "fatigues" 1989 01:46:51,840 --> 01:46:55,017 standing on the ant hills and that. 1990 01:46:55,365 --> 01:46:57,541 And then, there was the photo of the plane on one side. 1991 01:46:58,542 --> 01:47:00,326 So we were given three photos. 1992 01:47:01,066 --> 01:47:02,807 Mads: What guys were on the photo? 1993 01:47:03,025 --> 01:47:05,506 Maxwell was in the photo. He was very young. 1994 01:47:06,463 --> 01:47:09,335 - Mads: Keith Maxwell? - Yeah. He was definitely there. 1995 01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:10,467 Because that was... 1996 01:47:11,294 --> 01:47:12,991 I can still remember the picture. 1997 01:47:13,209 --> 01:47:15,864 He was still wearing shorts, long socks... 1998 01:47:17,213 --> 01:47:19,563 and combat boots. 1999 01:47:21,826 --> 01:47:23,437 With this camouflage hat. 2000 01:47:25,177 --> 01:47:26,701 There was two other guys. 2001 01:47:26,875 --> 01:47:29,138 One was in full military fatigues. 2002 01:47:30,313 --> 01:47:32,750 And he had a beard. 2003 01:47:34,578 --> 01:47:37,929 Mads: Could the bearded guy be the agent 2004 01:47:38,408 --> 01:47:41,193 code named "Congo Red"? 2005 01:47:42,368 --> 01:47:45,981 Yeah. I would say 80 percent. 2006 01:47:46,547 --> 01:47:48,636 Probably that would have been Congo Red. 2007 01:47:48,853 --> 01:47:50,768 - Mads: That would be Congo Red? - Yeah. 2008 01:47:51,465 --> 01:47:53,684 Did you already summarize? 2009 01:47:54,859 --> 01:47:56,208 The whole story? 2010 01:47:57,383 --> 01:47:58,559 - Mads: No. - Not yet? 2011 01:47:58,907 --> 01:47:59,951 Mads: No. 2012 01:48:00,561 --> 01:48:03,128 Maybe I can get an idea when you summarize it. 2013 01:48:03,564 --> 01:48:05,609 We do manage to establish that... 2014 01:48:06,915 --> 01:48:08,394 SAIMR was very real. 2015 01:48:12,311 --> 01:48:13,356 But... 2016 01:48:17,055 --> 01:48:18,579 but still, you know... 2017 01:48:21,538 --> 01:48:24,236 It borders on fiction. Some of it is real, 2018 01:48:24,498 --> 01:48:26,978 and some of it is very difficult to prove. 2019 01:48:27,849 --> 01:48:30,982 Maxwell meets with a South African journalist 2020 01:48:31,156 --> 01:48:32,549 - named De Wet Potgieter. -Alexander: Yes. 2021 01:48:32,897 --> 01:48:34,943 Mads: And he gives him a lot of SAIMR documents, 2022 01:48:35,509 --> 01:48:36,988 including a... 2023 01:48:37,772 --> 01:48:40,078 sort of memoir written by Maxwell, 2024 01:48:40,557 --> 01:48:42,298 called, "The Story of My Life". 2025 01:48:42,690 --> 01:48:45,519 It's a fictionalized account of Maxwell's life. 2026 01:48:46,084 --> 01:48:46,955 But... 2027 01:48:47,738 --> 01:48:50,741 the part he gave De Wet Potgieter... 2028 01:48:51,655 --> 01:48:53,352 is not the full story. 2029 01:48:54,528 --> 01:48:58,488 The last part of the story is to be found in the 2030 01:48:59,184 --> 01:49:01,578 possession of Dagmar Feil's mother. 2031 01:49:04,842 --> 01:49:06,452 Okay, that I found very strange. 2032 01:49:11,501 --> 01:49:13,982 Did your mother get this at one time only? 2033 01:49:14,199 --> 01:49:15,723 Yes. Yes. 2034 01:49:16,593 --> 01:49:19,727 I think just prior to this, Lieutenant Maxwell, 2035 01:49:19,901 --> 01:49:22,164 or Commander Maxwell, however he referred to himself. 2036 01:49:22,338 --> 01:49:24,470 I think at the point where he was ready to leave, 2037 01:49:24,775 --> 01:49:27,343 he gave my mother everything he had in hand, 2038 01:49:27,735 --> 01:49:30,520 to aid her and help her to find the murderer. 2039 01:49:30,999 --> 01:49:33,828 Because why else would he have done this? 2040 01:49:34,916 --> 01:49:36,831 Mads: I want to be sure that this is actually Maxwell 2041 01:49:37,005 --> 01:49:38,136 writing these memoirs. 2042 01:49:38,484 --> 01:49:40,269 This is his handwriting, right? 2043 01:49:41,487 --> 01:49:43,315 Yeah, I know. This is Maxwell's handwriting. 2044 01:49:47,885 --> 01:49:49,104 Would he have been doing the... 2045 01:49:49,844 --> 01:49:52,542 Because some of the pages have been written on a typewriter, 2046 01:49:52,803 --> 01:49:56,459 - and some of them are in hand. - Yeah, he had one of those old... 2047 01:49:57,721 --> 01:49:59,114 typewriters if you wanna call it. 2048 01:49:59,462 --> 01:50:00,419 So it's possible, yeah. 2049 01:50:02,291 --> 01:50:04,032 - Mads: Would he have done the typing himself? -Alexander: Himself? Yes. Yeah 2050 01:50:04,206 --> 01:50:06,382 With stuff like that, he would not... 2051 01:50:06,643 --> 01:50:07,949 - Mads: Would not use a secretary? - Alexander: He would not use 2052 01:50:08,340 --> 01:50:11,082 a secretary. He wouldn't have even use his wife. 2053 01:50:13,041 --> 01:50:16,479 One thing I can say, if we were having talks about SAIMR, 2054 01:50:16,827 --> 01:50:19,395 and his wife came into the room, wherever we were or whatever, 2055 01:50:19,569 --> 01:50:20,657 he would tell her to leave. 2056 01:50:21,049 --> 01:50:23,051 Karl: It seems quite bizarre. 2057 01:50:23,312 --> 01:50:25,270 It almost looks like the rantings of a person 2058 01:50:25,444 --> 01:50:26,532 who is losing his mind. 2059 01:50:27,098 --> 01:50:29,710 Mads: Why would he write a fictionalized account 2060 01:50:29,884 --> 01:50:30,972 of his life? 2061 01:50:34,845 --> 01:50:36,934 You know, at the end of his life, he had lost it. 2062 01:50:37,587 --> 01:50:39,850 - Mads: He had gone mad? - So, only he would know. 2063 01:50:41,939 --> 01:50:43,419 Mads: In the part of the manuscript 2064 01:50:43,593 --> 01:50:45,073 of Keith Maxwell's memoir 2065 01:50:45,247 --> 01:50:47,423 that was given to Dagmar Feil's mother, 2066 01:50:47,684 --> 01:50:51,035 he provides the context for the Operation Celeste papers, 2067 01:50:51,601 --> 01:50:55,910 which suggests that Maxwell knew about Operation Celeste, 2068 01:50:56,084 --> 01:50:57,563 the plan to kill Dag Hammarskjold, 2069 01:50:57,999 --> 01:50:59,565 before the papers ended up 2070 01:51:00,392 --> 01:51:03,874 in the hands of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 1998. 2071 01:51:04,919 --> 01:51:07,748 Has everybody got a copy of these secret documents 2072 01:51:07,965 --> 01:51:09,837 from the Institute of Maritime Research? 2073 01:51:11,099 --> 01:51:12,448 Mads: This part of the manuscript 2074 01:51:12,796 --> 01:51:13,971 is handwritten. 2075 01:51:14,755 --> 01:51:18,149 Maxwell writes about how the men of the Marine Institute 2076 01:51:18,367 --> 01:51:20,586 have "plans for Dag". 2077 01:51:22,327 --> 01:51:24,025 In the manuscript, Commodore Wagman 2078 01:51:24,199 --> 01:51:25,809 chairs a brainstorming session 2079 01:51:25,983 --> 01:51:28,769 about ways to kill the General Secretary 2080 01:51:28,943 --> 01:51:30,379 when he comes to the Congo. 2081 01:51:30,945 --> 01:51:33,469 One of the officers suggests poisoning Dag Hammarskjold 2082 01:51:33,643 --> 01:51:35,427 with potassium cyanide, 2083 01:51:35,993 --> 01:51:38,474 much to the displeasure of Wagman. 2084 01:51:39,170 --> 01:51:42,565 The agent known as Congo Red is present at the meeting, 2085 01:51:42,739 --> 01:51:44,915 and is just about to open his mouth 2086 01:51:45,263 --> 01:51:48,092 when Commodore Wagman says, "No! No! 2087 01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:51,617 I don't want hours of discussion about possible methods. 2088 01:51:52,009 --> 01:51:55,317 I want a workable plan with at least three alternatives 2089 01:51:55,883 --> 01:51:58,276 on my desk within seven days." 2090 01:51:59,147 --> 01:52:01,018 Option one was the bomb, 2091 01:52:01,497 --> 01:52:03,673 to disable the plane, to bring it down. 2092 01:52:05,283 --> 01:52:07,285 That would have been choice number one. 2093 01:52:07,721 --> 01:52:09,374 So that the plane crashes. 2094 01:52:10,506 --> 01:52:13,857 Number two, have the fighter jet around as a contingency, 2095 01:52:14,031 --> 01:52:15,598 in the case that the bomb didn't do the damage 2096 01:52:15,772 --> 01:52:18,122 that it did in the plan. Then, shoot the plane down. 2097 01:52:18,688 --> 01:52:20,037 Number three, have the contingency 2098 01:52:20,211 --> 01:52:21,865 shooting from the ground to bring the plane down, 2099 01:52:22,039 --> 01:52:23,345 and clean up. 2100 01:52:27,610 --> 01:52:30,308 Mads: There is a picture of Dag Hammarskjold and... 2101 01:52:31,353 --> 01:52:32,789 in the picture of Dag Hammarskjold, 2102 01:52:33,137 --> 01:52:35,096 there is a playing card tucked in his shirt collar. 2103 01:52:35,270 --> 01:52:37,446 - Yes, there is an ace. - Mads: Yes. 2104 01:52:37,620 --> 01:52:39,361 - Yes, there's an ace. - Mads: The ace of spades? 2105 01:52:39,535 --> 01:52:41,145 The ace of spades. And that was well know 2106 01:52:41,319 --> 01:52:43,278 in security circles. 2107 01:52:43,452 --> 01:52:45,149 That was the way that the CIA operated. 2108 01:52:45,323 --> 01:52:47,151 That was a CIA card. 2109 01:52:47,673 --> 01:52:50,024 And that's why I say the CIA was involved. 2110 01:52:50,415 --> 01:52:51,982 Mads: So, that is a calling card from the CIA? 2111 01:52:52,156 --> 01:52:53,549 That is a calling card from the CIA. 2112 01:52:54,115 --> 01:52:55,943 Mads: Did you encounter the ace of spades 2113 01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:58,467 being used later on in your own career in SAIMR? 2114 01:52:58,859 --> 01:53:00,948 In SAIMR, yes. Once or twice. 2115 01:53:01,949 --> 01:53:05,039 Up in the DRC itself. 2116 01:53:06,692 --> 01:53:09,217 Mads: And That was also because of CIA involvement? 2117 01:53:09,434 --> 01:53:11,132 Because of CIA involvement. 2118 01:53:12,568 --> 01:53:14,309 And I would even go... 2119 01:53:15,310 --> 01:53:16,354 and... 2120 01:53:17,312 --> 01:53:18,400 Can you switch off? 2121 01:53:21,882 --> 01:53:25,494 Mads: Next, Maxwell writes about how a SAIMR operative 2122 01:53:25,755 --> 01:53:28,714 plants a bomb in the wheel bay of Dag Hammarskjold's plane. 2123 01:53:29,498 --> 01:53:31,630 Then follows an emergency meeting 2124 01:53:31,892 --> 01:53:33,937 in SAIMR's situation room 2125 01:53:34,242 --> 01:53:38,724 at two o'clock in the morning on the 18th of September 1961. 2126 01:53:39,508 --> 01:53:42,032 An operative has phoned to say that the bomb 2127 01:53:42,206 --> 01:53:44,208 did not explode at takeoff. 2128 01:53:45,470 --> 01:53:48,909 Commodore Wagman says, "Gentlemen. It's 2:30. 2129 01:53:49,170 --> 01:53:50,432 Go home and get some sleep. 2130 01:53:50,867 --> 01:53:53,087 We'll work something out in the morning." 2131 01:53:57,091 --> 01:54:00,485 Mads: So, in Maxwell's memoir, we have a "Commodore Wagman", 2132 01:54:00,659 --> 01:54:04,402 who seems to be the same person as Commodore Wagner, 2133 01:54:04,707 --> 01:54:07,362 who signs off on the Operations Celeste papers. 2134 01:54:09,320 --> 01:54:12,497 But, then we showed Groenewald these documents... 2135 01:54:13,020 --> 01:54:14,717 and he was totally dismissive of them. 2136 01:54:15,109 --> 01:54:17,415 He said you would never put something like that on paper. 2137 01:54:17,633 --> 01:54:19,591 He said it's very unprofessional. 2138 01:54:20,244 --> 01:54:21,463 It's not professional. 2139 01:54:22,116 --> 01:54:23,291 Not professional at all. 2140 01:54:27,034 --> 01:54:29,514 I disagree, because a lot of our stuff went on paper. 2141 01:54:29,819 --> 01:54:31,168 I disagree. 2142 01:54:32,213 --> 01:54:33,867 Mads: So it would be normal for SAIMR 2143 01:54:34,041 --> 01:54:35,477 to put things like this on paper? 2144 01:54:35,694 --> 01:54:37,261 To the relevant people, yes. 2145 01:54:37,914 --> 01:54:39,307 The purpose being? 2146 01:54:40,961 --> 01:54:45,139 For confirmation purposes, to say that there is backing, 2147 01:54:45,313 --> 01:54:48,664 you know there is an approval, that it's sanctioned. 2148 01:54:48,969 --> 01:54:51,362 Mads: So SAIMR had, in fact, its own bureaucracy? 2149 01:54:51,580 --> 01:54:52,668 Yes, definitely. 2150 01:54:53,364 --> 01:54:56,585 Very. And they were very strict and particular about it. 2151 01:54:57,194 --> 01:54:59,283 For example, let's go back a few steps. 2152 01:54:59,631 --> 01:55:02,417 When we saw Commodore Wagner... 2153 01:55:03,679 --> 01:55:05,202 etiquette is, you were not allowed 2154 01:55:05,420 --> 01:55:06,290 to approach him. 2155 01:55:06,638 --> 01:55:07,770 Mads: You met Wagner? 2156 01:55:07,988 --> 01:55:09,293 Not personally, but I remember him being 2157 01:55:09,467 --> 01:55:10,425 at one of the meetings. 2158 01:55:10,904 --> 01:55:11,948 - Mads: You saw him? - Yes. 2159 01:55:12,122 --> 01:55:13,123 Mads: What did he look like? 2160 01:55:13,689 --> 01:55:15,821 He was an old, frail man at that point in time. 2161 01:55:16,474 --> 01:55:18,912 Mads: Because for us, it is totally impossible 2162 01:55:19,086 --> 01:55:20,783 to find anything about him. 2163 01:55:21,262 --> 01:55:23,699 Look, I know he was a businessman. Definitely. 2164 01:55:23,960 --> 01:55:26,615 - Mads: What kind of business? - If I remember it correctly, 2165 01:55:26,789 --> 01:55:28,660 it was something to do in the medical field. 2166 01:55:30,184 --> 01:55:31,707 Mads: Then, a knock on the door. 2167 01:55:32,142 --> 01:55:33,317 [knocking on door] 2168 01:55:35,885 --> 01:55:38,540 Mads: A lieutenant enters, salutes the Commodore, 2169 01:55:38,844 --> 01:55:40,498 and hands him a slip of paper. 2170 01:55:41,369 --> 01:55:42,718 "What is this? 2171 01:55:43,414 --> 01:55:45,939 "Oh my God, it worked," Wagman said, 2172 01:55:46,330 --> 01:55:48,376 and waved the message at the others. 2173 01:55:48,854 --> 01:55:51,727 "She blew on approach to Ndola at around midnight. 2174 01:55:52,249 --> 01:55:54,773 It worked, by God, it worked." 2175 01:55:55,339 --> 01:55:56,950 There were smiles all around. 2176 01:55:57,820 --> 01:55:59,517 Congo Red had delivered. 2177 01:56:01,780 --> 01:56:05,523 Mads: In the last part of Maxwell's memoirs, 2178 01:56:05,915 --> 01:56:09,136 he writes about going to visit 2179 01:56:09,919 --> 01:56:12,835 the archives of SAIMR... 2180 01:56:14,402 --> 01:56:17,448 which are, according to Maxwell's script 2181 01:56:17,622 --> 01:56:20,974 located in a shopping mall in Randburg. 2182 01:56:23,759 --> 01:56:26,892 And there, an antiques shop is to be found, 2183 01:56:27,110 --> 01:56:29,591 managed by a man named Mr. Hadley. 2184 01:56:31,767 --> 01:56:32,898 You know anyone named Mr. Hadley, 2185 01:56:33,073 --> 01:56:34,291 having an antiques shop? 2186 01:56:35,075 --> 01:56:37,251 - No. - Mads: He enters the shop, 2187 01:56:37,686 --> 01:56:41,995 and in the back room, there is a... 2188 01:56:43,822 --> 01:56:45,041 a filing cabinet, 2189 01:56:45,563 --> 01:56:48,262 containing what Maxwell calls "The Travelogue". 2190 01:56:48,697 --> 01:56:51,787 It's all the microfilms and pictures from... 2191 01:56:52,483 --> 01:56:54,877 SAIMR operations in foreign countries... 2192 01:56:55,965 --> 01:56:58,837 from I think, '52 to '84. 2193 01:57:00,361 --> 01:57:01,753 But he seems to be especially concerned 2194 01:57:02,015 --> 01:57:04,017 - about year 1961. - '61. 2195 01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:22,644 Mads: He takes all of this material with him, 2196 01:57:23,384 --> 01:57:26,343 and goes back to himself and burns it, 2197 01:57:26,604 --> 01:57:30,347 destroys all the pictures, all the microfilm. 2198 01:57:31,174 --> 01:57:33,394 Alexander: But that sounds something what Maxwell would do. 2199 01:57:34,786 --> 01:57:36,527 That is something that he would do. 2200 01:57:51,107 --> 01:57:55,024 Alexander: Anybody that resisted any white form of... 2201 01:57:59,376 --> 01:58:01,291 manipulation on the African continent, 2202 01:58:01,683 --> 01:58:05,034 SAIMR was prepared to go and quell those for a price. 2203 01:58:06,079 --> 01:58:07,297 At a cost. 2204 01:58:07,906 --> 01:58:09,256 And that was one thing that Dag Hammarskjold 2205 01:58:09,430 --> 01:58:10,866 was totally against. 2206 01:58:11,432 --> 01:58:15,784 And he wanted every country for the people of the country. 2207 01:58:17,307 --> 01:58:18,787 And obviously, when you've got investments, 2208 01:58:18,961 --> 01:58:21,181 when there's minerals, gold, diamonds, oil 2209 01:58:21,355 --> 01:58:22,486 and all of that stuff... 2210 01:58:23,052 --> 01:58:24,749 and we all know which countries... 2211 01:58:25,533 --> 01:58:26,447 He was a threat. 2212 01:58:27,970 --> 01:58:30,538 We countered effectively efforts from all sides 2213 01:58:30,755 --> 01:58:32,714 to make the Congo a happy hunting ground 2214 01:58:32,931 --> 01:58:34,107 for national interests. 2215 01:58:35,847 --> 01:58:37,762 To be a roadblock to such efforts 2216 01:58:38,285 --> 01:58:40,287 is to make yourself the target of attacks 2217 01:58:41,026 --> 01:58:43,942 from all those who find their plans thwarted. 2218 01:58:44,421 --> 01:58:47,250 He was killed because he was going to change the way that 2219 01:58:47,816 --> 01:58:50,949 Africa dealt with the rest of the world financially. 2220 01:58:52,299 --> 01:58:53,604 And he was a threat. 2221 01:59:00,220 --> 01:59:02,570 And who's got the most to lose? Corporate. 2222 01:59:03,397 --> 01:59:05,138 Corporate business worldwide. 2223 01:59:07,009 --> 01:59:08,228 People are greedy. 2224 01:59:08,576 --> 01:59:10,360 People want what others have got, 2225 01:59:10,752 --> 01:59:12,580 and they don't want to pay for it. 2226 01:59:14,669 --> 01:59:16,366 That's why they come to Africa. 2227 01:59:17,585 --> 01:59:20,196 Because Africa seem to be easy and third world. 2228 01:59:22,067 --> 01:59:24,157 And now, Africa is starting to fight back. 2229 01:59:25,636 --> 01:59:27,464 And I think it would have happened 2230 01:59:27,856 --> 01:59:31,120 30 ago, 40 years ago, if Dag Hammarskjold had his way. 2231 01:59:32,948 --> 01:59:34,167 Africa would have been a completely 2232 01:59:34,341 --> 01:59:35,907 different continent today... 2233 01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:39,520 if Dag Hammarskjold was allowed to live 2234 01:59:40,303 --> 01:59:42,262 and follow through on his mandate. 2235 02:00:13,467 --> 02:00:15,120 - So... - Yes? 2236 02:00:16,034 --> 02:00:18,733 The last narration is about... 2237 02:00:19,516 --> 02:00:20,517 "Goran Bjorkdahl... 2238 02:00:24,652 --> 02:00:26,131 will continue his work. 2239 02:00:33,922 --> 02:00:37,491 Last I heard of him, he had gone up the Congo River." 2240 02:00:39,710 --> 02:00:43,540 Clarinah: "Last I heard of him, he had gone up the Congo River, 2241 02:00:43,975 --> 02:00:47,327 looking for Maxwell's secret jungle laboratory." 2242 02:00:48,676 --> 02:00:49,677 Mads: Perfect. 2243 02:00:50,721 --> 02:00:55,552 [foreign music playing] 2244 02:01:48,910 --> 02:01:52,740 [engine revs] 163305

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