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You are truly a force,

and an incredibly charming one at that.

He knows exactly how to dazzle and entertain.

At the time, I was just doing my job.

I wasn't thinking about anything but filling the order,

doing what was required of me.

I never once thought about the legacy of the future,

just the present.

Thank you all.

So, Bob, you design all these gorgeous gowns and sketches

for characters, costumes.

So, what were you like as a little boy?

- Were you, like, fantasizing? - I was the strangest child

you've ever met.

I just-- I never played with the other kids.

I just stayed in my bedroom and drew pictures of stars.

- You mean people? - People, yeah.

Yeah. And little stage sets on my dresser drawers.

And I turned off the lights...

Did you see pineapples when you were in Hawaii?

- No. - You must've.

Well, this isn't going to be a very good owl.

I can tell. I'll have to do my best.

Here you go.

Okay, I'm going to put a little bow in her hair,

because it's more like a hat when there's a bow in it.

And that's kind of holding them all together.

Okay, now I'm doing another one there.

See, when you're a costume designer,

you have to think of how it's going to be--

How it sticks to their head and works.

Do you ever make hats out of paper sometimes?

Crowns and hats? It's fun to do.

There she goes.

- How's that? - It is so fun.

- It's fun, huh? - Mm-hm.

Yeah.

Well, they gave me that when I was there.

This is like-- Because I've been getting awards,

they decided to give me an award for Most Creative Grandpa.

Well, the other one was an award for Best Drawer,

by Kira, the little one.

Well, that's all I did, so I was usually better

than anybody else in my class.

But I wasn't that great.

I was-- You know, when you're 6 years old...

But how'd you learn it?

You just draw every day,

because that's all you wanted to do.

I didn't want to play, you know, baseball or anything.

That was too boring.

And then at school, everybody-- You know, a lot of kids

had brothers and played baseball and football and all that stuff.

And boy, did I hate that.

You know, I just didn't like it. I didn't know how to do it.

And I couldn't hit the damn ball with that bat, you know.

And then they'd always put me as far out

in the field as possible.

And then if a ball did come,

I was usually daydreaming about something.

Oh, just anything pretty.

I don't know.

♪ If I could turn back time ♪

♪ If I could find a way ♪

Well, when I got famous about 27 years ago,

I wanted to check off my list of people I needed to contact.

And at the top of that list was Bob Mackie.

All rise for Bob Mackie.

You know, all the real stars, all the biggest stars,

wore Bob Mackie.

It was because it actually made them look like the superstar

that they were.

♪ Have you ever fed a lover With just your hands? ♪

♪ Close your eyes and trust it Just trust it ♪

♪ Have you ever thrown A fistful of glitter In the air ♪

♪ Have you ever looked fear In the face and said ♪

♪ I just don't care ♪

When you're going to meet Bob Mackie for the first time

and you think about all these drawings and years and years

and years of Hollywood creation,

you think that you're going to be in the room

with this fabulous, arrogant queen.

And he's just the nicest, most soft spoken...

I call it quiet power,

because people that are still trying to find their power

and exercise their power

are usually loud and boisterous and passionate.

But someone like that that's been around for so long,

he's just like, "No, that's not going to work.

Let's try something else." Or, "No, that could be nice."

We do argue a lot.

We don't always see eye to eye, but at the end of the day,

what he puts me in makes me feel really good.

♪ It's only half past The point of oblivion ♪

♪ The hourglass on the table ♪

♪ The walk before the run ♪

♪ The breath before the kiss ♪

♪ And the fear Before the flames ♪

♪ Have you ever Felt this way and... ♪

The process with Bob and Joe,

you know, you go to this fantastic old building

and there's all these old costumes,

and they're all over the wall, and there's fabric everywhere.

And they start by getting you completely naked,

And they take every measurement of every body part.

It's fun. We laugh. I've been known to cry.

You have to stand up on this mini stage

with a spotlight on you

because he wants to know exactly how it's going to look.

♪ Have you ever Wished for an endless night ♪

♪ Lassoed the moon And the stars ♪

♪ And pulled that rope tight ♪

♪ Have you ever held your breath And asked yourself ♪

♪ Will it ever get... ♪

If you look at just the "Glitter in the Air" outfit

that he made for me...

I mean, who in their right mind would want to design bandages

for someone to wear,

and think that they could make that look graceful and beautiful?

But it is one of the most, I think, iconic outfits,

if not the most iconic outfit of my career,

that glitter outfit.

It's very rare that fashion designers

are designing specifically for a performer.

Right? People design collections for runway or for the consumer.

And when you're working on performance clothing,

it's about a very specific thing.

It's about real character study.

It's about understanding

what that person's fantasies are,

what they want to project

and who they want to be in the future,

and what do they need to achieve in that moment.

It seems just all fabulous in the end,

but you're really trying to pick up

on somebody's essence.

You know, that invisible thing that's going to come out

and create that connection of magic

with an audience, and make millions of people dream.

Somebody told me this years ago,

that every superhero has a costume.

And clothes help you become

whatever superhero you want to be.

And it's not that you're hiding inside of the clothes, or...

But there is a certain confidence,

and there is a certain thing

that happens when you put the right girl

in the right dress.

So the whole business of dressing a celebrity

is more cerebral and more psychological

than anything else.

♪ We were good ♪

♪ We were gold ♪

♪ Kind of dream That can't be sold ♪

♪ Ooh, we were right Till we weren't ♪

♪ Built a home Then watched it burn ♪

One of the best parts of wearing Bob Mackie on stage

is that sometimes the audience is just as excited

to see a Bob Mackie in person as they are to see you.

♪ Oh, I can buy myself flowers ♪

♪ Write my name in the sand ♪

Why are you acting like you don't know this song?

♪ Stay up for hours ♪

♪ See things You don't understand ♪

I mean, it really looked like I was giving it all I got,

but I wasn't really doing anything but minding my business

and singing the damn song,

because Bob and his dress was really doing all the work.

- ♪ You can ♪ - ♪ Can love me better ♪

♪ I can love me better, baby ♪

♪ Can love me better ♪

I think a little wind doesn't hurt, right, Bob? A little wind.

The fabric, the beads,

picking up that beachy breeze,

down at the old crypto center.

♪ Can love me better ♪

♪ Can love me better ♪

♪ I can love me better baby ♪

- ♪ Can love me better ♪ - ♪ I can love me, can love me ♪

♪ Can love me better I can love me better baby ♪

- ♪ Can love me better ♪ - ♪ I can love me, can love me ♪

♪ Can love me better I can love me better, baby ♪

♪ Can love me better ♪

♪ I can love me better ♪

♪ I can love me better Than you can ♪

Actually, let me get a shot of these cops.

It looks like you're getting a police escort.

- God. - Wow, this guy's important.

So your date for this evening is Janelle, right?

- No, Joe. - Mr. Joe.

- I'm working. - She's working.

Are you kidding? I got in,

got in by just the last second, by a hair.

- Yeah, I'm the date. - You're the date.

I'm the hard-working woman tonight

- Yes-- - Well, that sounded weird.

No, I have no date. These are my people.

Oh, wow.

Entourage.

So Cher told us about the first Met Gala that she attended.

Yeah? What did she say?

Well, she was telling us a little about the evening.

It was fun and smaller at that time.

She had a really good time.

That was the most amazing night.

It just was the most amazing night ever.

I didn't know what I was going to wear to this party

because it was the first party.

And Bob was saying, "What do you think you want to wear?"

And I knew. I knew what I wanted to wear.

There was only one thing I wanted to wear,

and it was the dress.

And what it was was that it was nude.

And it was almost like a-- It was a kind of gauze fabric.

And the exhibition--

It was actually the Hollywood exhibition.

It was Diana Vreeland's Hollywood Exhibition

of Time and Glamour.

And of course, we were sitting with Diana Vreeland's table,

And we had movies, old movie stars,

and all these amazing people.

And it was just so much fun.

The Met Ball used to be catered by Glorious Food.

And I was a waiter for Glorious Food that night.

I was entranced by a great silent film star

who most people are too young to remember

named Lillian Gish, who was one of the great actresses

of the early film days.

And Lillian Gish was sitting by herself,

and she was lit by one candle on the table.

It was like a silent movie put into color and brought to life.

She was riveting.

And just at that moment, Cher walked in with Bob Mackie.

And at that point, Lillian Gish looked up

and she went, "Oh, my. Look at her."

And I did,

and so did everybody else in the room.

It's not like I think, "Oh, I walk in here,

I'm going to be the most beautiful woman."

But I'm going to walk in and I'm going to be me,

and whatever that is at the moment,

I don't care what people think, truthfully.

And this guy came up to me and said,

how does it feel to be at this party naked?

And I went, "I don't know. It feels okay."

I mean, it was, like, such a stupid question.

My mom was pretty amazing.

My mom was beautiful, had a great body.

She could-- She kicked ass.

And she was a model.

And so I learned a lot about carrying myself

when I wore a dress.

And carrying myself kind of made me think,

"I don't give a fuck what any of you guys think." You know?

You're like, "I'm going to do what I want to do

because it's me, and if you like me--"

Oh, I've had plenty of times in my life where people thought,

you know, "You're out of here." I mean, constantly.

"You won't be here another day."

"You won't be here another decade."

"You won't be here another minute."

And your reaction to that is always, well...

I'm still here. That's my reaction.

It's like, I'll be here when you might be gone.

She was indeed. It's a beautiful all--

Shiny black floor and all these men in tuxedos,

and Mitzi in a nude dress.

Ladies and gentlemen, Ms. Mitzi Gaynor.

Oh, my gosh, that dress. Well, the let-go dress.

It's about half an inch of souffle,

and the rest is Mitzi.

♪ Right now, but right now ♪

- ♪ Hold back ♪ - ♪ Be practical, Jack and ♪

♪ Hold back ♪

♪ You feel like You're busting inside ♪

♪ Your heart's In a desperate divide ♪

♪ Hold back, hold back ♪

♪ Hold back, hold back ♪

Bob liked my figure.

And he said he wanted to show my figure off.

So he wanted to do something, a nude dress.

So I said, "Oh, Bob, I can't wear that."

He said, "Sure you can."

So he did some tights,

you know, some stockings with hooks on them...

and a little tiny...

I'm trying to show you, girls. It's like a...

What can I say, it's like a...

camisole.

But it's just sheer, you know, with the thread down the center

to show where it joins, and hooks and eyes.

And that's underneath, and that's it.

Now, the dress is chiffon...

but not the kind of chiffon that we all know.

It's more called souffle,

which is the finest chiffon you can find.

It's real silk.

And that's beads.

My neck is covered to here, long sleeves, long to the floor,

and that's it, nude colored.

And I think we can show that dress. Can't we show that dress?

♪ Let go, let the moon know You're alive ♪

♪ Let the world know You believe ♪

♪ Let the world know How you love to give ♪

♪ Don't tell it in the city ♪

♪ Go tell it on the mountain ♪

♪ Go tell them all Until they hear ♪

And she-- Like, quote, "you thought she was naked,"

but honestly, she exposed nothing.

But it was the combination of her height, of her movement

that, yes, the way the beads-- It's brilliant construction.

It's unbelievable.

But it was also the...

It was the confidence.

People always talk about how style is really confidence.

It was the confidence that Cher had

when she wore it, when she wore these clothes.

And I think also, the confidence that Bob instilled in her.

And she basically upstaged everybody else in the room.

Nobody remembers anything else.

And of course, and then it wound up on the cover

of Time magazine.

That must have been quite a moment for you

because that was the "it" publication in the 1970s.

And it still kind of is.

But that must have really impacted you.

It did, but I think a lot of it had to do with the dress.

And in some of the Southern states,

they just took the cover off.

And it was almost head to toe.

You could see everything, and a little bit of her

in there too, you know, quite a bit of her.

And people were, like, shocked.

But you couldn't see anything. You just thought you could.

That's the way my dresses are.

You never really can see anything.

- Who's in the elevator? - You just think you can.

Show Bob.

- It's an illusion? - Illusion. It is an illusion.

- That's the secret, then. - That's what they call it.

The moment of time that you grow up,

the moment of time that you see the first woman

that just moves you, and you think, "Oh, my God,

she's breathtakingly beautiful,"

I think those things stay with you.

And I think they ultimately form a sense of taste and style

that remains with you your entire life.

Your core sensibilities, I believe, are really formed,

not necessarily in childhood,

but let's say early adolescence, adolescence.

And the interesting thing is,

my tastes were formed in the '70s.

And the clothes of Bob Mackie were very much

part of what I absorbed as visual beauty.

And, come on, let's face it. Cher.

I mean, what better body to put clothes on,

or to put very few clothes on than that gorgeous creature?

♪ Let me entertain you ♪

What are my real measurements?

Well...

Hold on just a second. Bob?

♪ Let me do ♪

I think Bob and Cher are family.

Maybe they're not connected by DNA officially,

but they're connected.

They're both shy.

Isn't that interesting?

They're both shy.

And both of them have this talent

to express themselves in a way that's larger than life.

And Bob realized, hey, you know, this is an opportunity

to create a character.

And Cher really became a character under his guidance,

and developed all these wild and crazy looks

that more or less helped make her into a star.

And great charisma.

You know, people just are fascinated with her.

This many years later, 50 years later,

people are filling up stadiums

to see what she's going to look like.

She inhabits those clothes like a comfortable pair of jeans.

She doesn't think all this crazy stuff is that outrageous.

But she wears it with a casual flair that nobody else can.

♪ Let me sing you some songs ♪

♪ Some rock and roll music songs ♪

♪ That you ain't ever heard ♪

♪ And if you're real good ♪

♪ I'll make you feel good ♪

♪ I want your spirits to climb ♪

♪ So let me entertain you ♪

♪ And we'll have A real good time ♪

♪ Oh, yeah ♪

♪ We'll have ♪

♪ We'll have a real good time ♪

♪ Oh, yeah ♪

♪ We'll have a real good time ♪

Can I hear a little commotion for the dress? Hm?

A little bit?

Thank you.

Now let's hear it for the back of the dress.

Anyway, my name is Cher.

That's, like, to me, the perfect collaboration, Cher and Bob.

As a matter of fact, we used to tape

right next door to Sonny and Cher .

And on any given night,

if Cher was doing her big number,

we'd all have to go see what Cher was wearing.

So you literally would run through the ladies room

because that connected the two--

Because they'd close those big stage doors.

So the quickest way to get there was through the toilet.

So you'd run through the ladies' room, run on to Cher's stage

to see what she was wearing.

And it was always something incredible.

It's this kind of cosmic type of emotional thing

that's really bigger than just the clothes.

Almost all of those clothes can be worn in some way

by someone tomorrow, and still be great,

and still get a lot of attention and still tell a story.

When you talk about her life, she interjects a lot.

And all of her stories involve Bob

because they created looks for each moment together.

But she said her life really changed when Bob came into it.

And they had this collaboration, this shorthand,

where they could both plan to shock

and titillate audiences in a way that nobody had before.

Certainly on network television, they were scandalous.

And they loved it.

You know, they pushed each other.

And there's a great line in the show

where the censor is complaining about her belly button,

or under-boob.

The censor's complaining that under-boob is showing.

He said, "Well, maybe if we just stand her on her head,

it'll be cleavage."

And we took the line. It's Bob's real line,

and it's in the show.

And I think that was kind of the fun for them,

the two of them against the world.

You gotta be ready to be noticed if you're wearing Bob Mackie.

Ready to be noticed.

Yeah.

I've known Bob and Bob's work my whole life.

I mean, I'll never forget that moment, probably, what, 1986?

And it was such a climactic moment,

just in media and in the world, right?

Everything was excessive and bejeweled.

I mean, we're living kind of in that moment of excess.

But here was something that was shocking.

And it was in that moment of excess,

but it was still beautiful.

In fact, I think Jane Fonda was the one who introduced her.

And she says, wait till you see what she has coming out in.

To present the Oscar for Supporting Actor

is one of the most glamorous people

in this or any other business, and you better believe it.

Wait till you see what's gonna come out here.

She herself was a Best Supporting Actress

nominee for her role in Silkwood , and this year,

won acclaim for her work in Mask .

Ladies and gentlemen, in a word, Cher.

Well, I was in town,

and I don't know if she was here doing a film

or she was here just hanging out with Tom Cruise

in his apartment.

I just went over and she said,

I'm going to be presenting an Oscar.

Wasn't she mad about something?

Well, she was-- Yeah, she was pissed off.

Because I didn't get nominated for a movie

that everyone thought I would actually win,

but I didn't get nominated,

and they thought I wasn't serious.

I didn't dress like a serious actress,

and I had-- My boyfriends were strange.

So I decided-- I had this idea in my mind.

Well, she said, "I'm giving out this award,

and they haven't seen me look like I used to look."

Because she'd been making movies.

She was in these movies where she was playing kind of

down-and-dirty characters, you know.

- Silkwood, right? - Silkwood.

And, you know, she wasn't glamorous.

And they hadn't seen her all dressed up.

And for her to get dressed up,

it didn't mean putting on a pretty dress.

It meant putting on, you know, a good outfit.

And I had my sketch pad, and I started drawing.

I'd just draw a little bit

because I knew I probably wouldn't see her again

for a month or so, so I had to get it all moving.

Sometimes I'd say, "I have this idea."

And I think I just started with the big feathers.

And I said, "I just want the--"

He said, "You don't have to say anything else.

We have real shorthand with each other too.

I said, "Well, should she have a loin cloth?"

"Oh, yeah, I want a loin cloth."

Well, you think, "Oh..."

Well, maybe you could have these black tights with boots.

And she, "Oh, yeah, that's cool."

You know, before you know it, she had the big wrap

and the big Mohawk headdress.

So there's a lot of mystique around the creation of these,

and no one really knows, the chicken or the egg.

Are you giving him the ideas?

No, no, no. Not usually. Not usually.

Only for a couple. Only for a couple.

That one I just had--

It came to me. You know what I mean?

It just kind of came to me.

You know, and I thought, "Are you sure you wanna

dress like this for the Oscars?"

That girl, she knows.

She knows how to get her picture in the paper.

It's so exciting, and it's so much fun.

Like, you see the design on paper

and you know what you're going to be able to do in it.

And I was coming around,

and Jane Fonda was coming around,

and she looked at me and she said,

"Cher, please wait till I get to my seat before you come out.

Just, please," she said. "I can't wait.

I want to see everybody's reaction."

Thank you. Thank you.

And I walked out and I said--

As you can see, I did receive my Academy booklet

on how to dress like a serious actress.

And it was kind of my, you know--

My you-know-what moment.

What does that mean, the you-know-what moment?

My "fuck you" moment to the Academy.

Because it was like, you know,

all you have to judge me on is my work, not my life.

Who cares about a beautiful dress sometimes at the Oscars?

Sometimes you want more.

You want something that's gonna stand the test of time

and that people are still gonna really see

when we're all dead and gone.

It's like, that Cher thing is still gonna be there,

and it's still gonna be fucking crazy.

And I think that's really great.

A collaboration is way more interesting and exciting

than a one-off gig.

You learn from mistakes

and you fail in order to do really amazing things.

So when you're doing great costumes,

that's usually from knowing the person well,

and knowing what you can get away with.

How something's going to look on stage, how someone moves,

how their body reacts to fabric,

and to cut, and how they can handle themselves.

When she first appeared at the Oscars

in her big Mohawk thing with her bare midriff,

giving an award to Don Ameche, people were horrified.

"Why, that's not fashion."

They were just-- They were just horrified.

And now, every year they say,

"Why can't it be like the old days when Cher came to the--" You know.

The same thing just goes on and on and on.

But as the man behind that...

- What? - You're the man behind that.

No, but I tell you, I'm more conservative than that.

But she wanted to make a big splash

because nobody had seen her dress like that for a long time.

I mean, Bob invented the red carpet as far as I'm concerned.

All the very sheer clothes that Cher wore,

and others, which years later

many of the designers were doing on Jennifer Lopez and Beyoncé.

I mean, Bob was doing that before anybody,

strategically placing some sequins and beads

in all the right places.

He made women look so beyond extraordinary and sexy,

and it was never--

I don't think it was ever tacky.

It was just right for the occasion.

I met him when I was 19,

so I had on what I considered fashion.

Sonny and I wore our fashion, right?

But I did not understand anything

about the world of fashion.

You know, Bob did costumes,

and fashion people looked down on him for some reason.

This is my theory of it.

He showed different parts, but it was great fashion.

It wasn't that everything wasn't beautifully designed.

It was just, you were seeing things that you hadn't seen before.

I mean, no one had ever seen a belly button on TV.

But I think we got away with it

because Sonny and I were married.

I mean, they weren't going for it in the beginning,

but we just kept pushing.

And when they did research

and saw how important the clothes were,

then they backed off,

and then they were, "Okay, spend whatever you want."

I don't know who woke up one day and said,

"I'm the king of saying that costuming isn't art,"

because it is.

So when he got that CFDA award, I was so happy for him

because he finally got the nod from them, realizing,

"Of course, we've been stealing from you for years."

But back when he started,

it was still a more sedate fashion world,

and a little too serious.

And now it's not that way at all.

Fashion is a little snobby, right?

A little bit.

So when you have someone who's a showman,

who's about feathers and sequins,

you might not think that is a level of taste or of design

that is warranted recognition.

Well, I think time tells truth, right?

Well, some people say, you know, you work on a character

from the inside out.

But there are those, and I'm one of those,

who knows that you can develop a character from the outside in.

I've always said that drag is like the Superman

to my Clark Kent, because something happens

when you put on a Bob Mackie outfit.

Something magical happens.

Good evening. I'm Bob Mackie.

Welcome aboard, Mr. Mackie. I'm Captain Stubing.

- It's an honor to meet you. - Thank you, captain.

Mr. Mackie designs the gowns for all the big TV stars.

Carol Burnett, Anne Margaret, Cher.

That's right. You've heard them say clothes make the man.

Well, I'm the man that makes the clothes.

- I hope you enjoy the cruise. - I'm sure I will.

Milhouse, if you stay a little while longer,

you can have this blazer. It's a Bob Mackie original.

Wow, a Bob Mackie.

Who likes glittery, fun things?

Holy shit, is that a fucking Bob Mackie gown?

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness.

- Um, you might want to see this. - Mm.

- It's Ms. Cummings. - Uh-oh.

- Is it ever Ms. Cummings. - Oh, my...

Oh, my God.

Bob Mackie, where are you when we need you?

She looks like a cocktail waitress

on an oil rig or something.

Doesn't--? Look at the piping. Look at the piping.

Mm-hm. Yeah.

I think for Cher and Bob, it was mutual.

I think Bob put his stamp on Elton.

Absolutely.

He helped craft that era of Elton John.

Elton was on a special with Cher and Bette Midler.

And the three of them worked together,

and they sang together, and they were quite fabulous.

And he's looking at what Cher's got on.

And I dressed him. I did a great outfit for him.

It was all silver and quilted, and a big top hat.

- ♪ Moc ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

- ♪ King ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

- ♪ Bird ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ♪

♪ Mockingbird now ♪

♪ Everybody have you heard ♪

♪ Have you heard ♪

♪ He's gonna buy me... ♪

And she was all in silver and white,

and Bette was all silver bangles and sequins.

It was fun.

And he said, "Would you make me some costumes?" Some outfits,

or some suits, or whatever.

I don't know what he said exactly.

I said, "Well, what kind of things would you like?"

And he said, "Well, things like you do for Cher."

And I went, "Okay."

And I did.

Well, Bob did a lot of things for Elton John in the '70s,

and Elton loved everything, and he would try anything.

And so he was game.

I think Elton was pushing Bob.

Most designers, I think, when you wear their clothes,

they become part of you, and they become your friends.

And that's why I like to have relationships with designers.

Because you get to know them, they get to know you,

and you have fun with them.

Do I regret any of it? Not really.

There's some clunkers, but there always is.

But I'm surprised that Donald Duck outfit wasn't in here.

But again, it was Bob Mackie thinking, "All right,

You're gonna be Donald Duck." And I went, "Oh, fine. Great, lovely."

Me.

Well, he had one as Minnie Mouse once.

You know, figure that one out.

Did he suggest it?

Well, "What could I dress up like?"

And he said, "Could I be Minnie Mouse?"

And I said, "Yeah, sure you can."

Why not?

And I said, "How about Donald Duck?"

And we did a couple of different ones.

And he reacted to that?

Oh, he loved it. He just loved dressing up.

You know, he was-- That was when you'd see him really laughing,

and he was having the best time.

But throughout my career, clothes have been somewhat important.

Without that process of dressing up

and looking different and having fun,

I would never have been the artist that I became. Never.

"And guess what? The TDF costume collection,

in honor of Met Gala's theme of camp,

join us in toasting to The King of Camp, Bob Mackie."

- Who did that? - The TDF. They've put a note--

- Your costume collection. - Yeah, it's your whole video.

Well, here I am, the King of Camp,

and I'm trying to be so conservative.

- That's the one that I said-- - Yeah, that's the back--

No, but this is--

This really is your night. - No, it isn't really my night.

King of Camp?

Well...

- I don't know. - They think it is, I guess.

Clearly.

Well, two journalists said that today, that you're the King--

Most people don't even know what "camp" is.

"Camp is an aesthetic style and sensibility

that regards something as appealing

because of its bad taste and ironic value."

Um...

Okay, that sounds so negative though, doesn't it?

I mean, camp is-- I don't see camp as being bad.

I mean, like, it's very "ta-da," right?

Ta-da!

That's what we're going to Bob Mackie for. "Ta-da."

Of course. Yes, but with good humor.

Absolutely.

I mean, campy is great if it's done with love

and with technique and care.

Of course. I mean, this is razzle-dazzle.

This is-- This is magic land.

I mean, you know, like, Las Vegas.

I used to do big shows in Vegas, the showgirls.

Outfits on showgirls are the campiest thing

that ever happened if you do it right.

And I loved doing it. It was fun.

It kind of came natural. I don't know why.

Was it born with the musicals that you watched as a kid?

Somewhat.

There were showgirls in musicals,

seeing, you know, Ziegfeld Follies

and those fabulous MGM things.

And it was just...

I-- I guess I liked it.

It sunk in, I guess. I don't know.

I love movies, I loved going to Technicolor movies

and musicals and all that.

And-- And actually, they used to take me to the movies

when I was a little kid, my sister and my mother.

The one movie, when I really decided

to become a costume designer, was a Gene Kelly movie,

An American in Paris .

And I went, "Oh, I could do this. I bet I could do this."

And before I knew it, I knew the name of every movie star

and what they did, and what they looked, how they dressed.

Carmen Miranda was my favorite movie star

when I was, you know, like 6 years old.

But why not? She was like a clown.

She was like-- All that color and all that stuff in her hair,

and the fruit and the-- I mean, she's crazy.

I'm a lucky guy because I got to do

kind of what I always thought I would like to do.

And you don't always get to do that.

You know, it's funny,

and I can't imagine as a little kid going to the movies.

I know so many of the generation of post-Depression or Depression

went to the movies. That was a way to escape.

And here was a little kid who is soaking in these details.

He can tell you, even though there were no VCR tapes or DVD,

there was no way to remember except for your imagination.

And I know that Bob could sit here today and say,

"Betty Grable wore this, and I loved how they did that,

and there was this corsage and then there was this neckline."

♪ Put your arms around me, honey Hold me tight ♪

♪ Huddle up and cuddle up With all your might ♪

And so there's something about, when you're defining camp,

I think you can't comment on it.

You have to love it.

And it has to come from a place of deep knowledge.

And it's why it appeals to us.

It's emotional, because we see that corsage or that neckline,

and we think, "I can't tell you that Betty Grable wore that

in, you know, 1946 in a film."

And yet, it resonates with me.

It makes me feel happy. It makes me actually emotional.

It makes me teary.

There's something about connecting

with just cloth, a story that somehow

we all are carrying around,

a history that we're carrying around.

Did your mother notice that you were finding it so fascinating?

Uh, no, my mother could never understand

what I did for a living. She just never did.

I mean, she knew.

And she liked being Bob Mackie's mother, because that--

But then she hated it if somebody was friendly with her

because she was.

She couldn't quite make up her mind, you know,

because there was a time

when, you know, I was doing a lot of famous people,

which made me better known at the time.

And, you know, it's just kind of amazing

how she wasn't interested in that as a career.

But she was never interested in what I was doing.

She was like a selfish woman,

but, you know, took me places that she knew I would like to go

when we would visit.

I actually lived with my grandmother for years.

And my mother was like the Auntie Mame

who would take you out for those special things, but this way,

she didn't have to deal with the day-to-day things.

And she and my father, I don't think

they were ever together that long.

It was like-- Because he went off to the war.

You know, because I was born in '39.

So then when he came back from the war,

I was so excited when he came back from the war.

I don't know. I was probably 6 or 7 at that point.

And I remember seeing him come on the Union Station in LA.

And he was in a whole Canadian uniform

because he went back to Canada.

That's where he went back to join the Army.

And he had a beret, and a thing, and the stuff--

And I thought, "Oh, that's my dad."

You know, I was so excited. And then he wasn't--

He really didn't wanna be-- He'd had a child earlier

that he didn't pay any attention to,

and he wasn't too interested in me either.

So it was one of those.

But did you love him?

Um, well, I wanted to, but I never really did.

I just felt like he didn't like me.

And if he doesn't like me, I'm not gonna like him.

He couldn't figure me out at all.

Because he came from a place of more of a machismo thing?

Exactly, very machismo. Very, "Yeah, big Chuck." You know.

Let me tell you, it's hard if you're kind of strange child,

and you're a little artistic, and there are things

that you wanna do and nobody understands

why you'd want to do that.

Because they have no conception of--

You know, the first time I told...

I think I told an uncle or one of my mother's boyfriends

or something.

"Well, Bobby, what do you want to be when you grow up?"

And I said, "Well, I'd like to be a costume designer on Broadway."

♪ Do you believe in life After love ♪

♪ I can feel something Inside me say ♪

♪ I really don't think You're strong enough ♪

♪ Do you believe in life After love ♪

You know, like Ruth Gordon said at the Oscars several years ago,

this is very encouraging for an 80-year-old.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

You see what it is?

Yeah. And then she says kisses and loving,

kisses, kisses, kisses, in giant letters, me.

Like there's anybody else.

Bernadette Peters.

- Here's Bernadette Peters. - Hey.

Oh, here's Carol.

So they wrote, "Yippee, yippee, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap."

And then at the bottom, she said, "Dust off the mantelpiece."

I was so thrilled when he won the Tony.

- Yes. - Oh, my gosh.

You were watching pretty intently?

Oh, I was screaming. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, I have a bone to pick...

with the Academy Awards, with the Academy Awards.

He was nominated for Pennies From Heaven .

And that year, it was a movie about the racing--

Men, runners.

Chariots of Fire won.

That won for Best Costuming.

All they did was have numbers.

I mean, I was so angry. What?

And you'd look at what Bob did in Pennies from Heaven .

He did the whole Depression look

and then all of the musical stuff, and the--

I mean...

Chariots of Fire won.

Crazy.

I never thought about it.

Who is the weirdest one in your family?

No pressure.

I better get the table top down.

- No, but-- Think about people-- - I won't tell--

It doesn't mean you don't love them.

- You're just-- - So true.

- Yeah. - Keep drinking your wine.

We'll find out some of the other family members.

Everybody always thought I was weird.

You were. Weird is good.

You were just talented.

They'd just say, "Oh, that's Bobby."

Unique, different.

- "Oh, Bobby. Oh, yeah, well"... - Odd.

Kira wouldn't call you weird. She'd call you odd.

Well, yeah.

- I was odd. - Odd.

And now how do you feel about that?

Didn't you just have a month of awards for--

Yeah, but that-- But...

- A lifetime of uniqueness. - Odd sometimes helps.

Yeah.

You want to win the odd title?

Is that what you're doing right now?

- You're doing-- - You're on your way.

Yeah, she's trying.

That's funny.

What do you know about those two little girls?

I don't know so much.

Joe is the man to go to for that.

I know that he sends them--

They show me pictures of the gifts and stuff

that they send out to them, but I've never met them.

I've seen pictures of them.

I'm, like, thinking, "Do you know that your grandfather's

Bob Mackie? That you can come to the office and try on gowns?"

He could probably even dress them for prom.

- Or Halloween. - Or Halloween.

Or prom, in, like, Bob Mackie couture.

Like, they have no idea-- Or maybe they do,

like, how lucky they are.

He discovered later in his life that he had a granddaughter

and two great granddaughters.

And it was the most joyful,

most emotional moment in his life

because I think he went for so long

without having immediate family.

He's very close with his ex-wife,

who he maintains a relationship with to this day.

And to discover that he had a granddaughter

and two great granddaughters is the greatest gift.

- Oh, toasting. - Yes.

- Be sure and look in the eye. - Okay.

All right, I'm gonna make a round.

- Just to my-- - To family and fun.

Yay. Cheer, cheers.

To Kira.

My arm's not long enough. Okay.

Cheers. Cheers, Kyla.

Kyla. Kyla, stop.

- Here's to you. - Cheers.

- I've known you the longest. - I know.

A long time.

Cheers.

- How many years? - Since I was 15.

- Fifteen? - I was 15.

- How old was I? 16? - Yep.

- So just do the math. - Yep.

- This is Daddy's fork. - I have to have tomatoes.

Yeah, we have history.

So we go way back, 60 years.

Yeah we've known each other a long time.

So, Joe let me know you discovered

you had this new family because of Robin, your son.

Can you talk about Robin?

- I can't. - It's hard.

It's, um... It's really hard.

- I won't get through it. - No, me either.

- Good morning. - Good morning. How are you?

Hey, I'm great.

So listen, I have one specific question for you, which is--

Okay.

I have broached the subject twice with Bob

when it comes to his son, Robin.

And I think people are very interested in Bob

and how he became this costume-designer extraordinaire,

but also, what makes him tick and the origins of things.

And I think the impact of Robin on his life,

I just want to make sure, and I know it's sensitive for Bob,

obviously, from his answers that he's given me,

that he kind of shuts it down.

But I'm hoping that you could shed some light for myself,

but also the people who are gonna watch this film,

about what exactly took place,

and give us a little more detail.

I didn't know Robin

because he died before I came around.

He died in 1993.

And I know that he is very sensitive about Robin

because it was such a terrible end to a young life when he died.

It was in all the newspapers

that Bob's son had died, and very publicly,

that he died of an HIV-related illness.

And then what did Robin do for a living?

Robin was a makeup artist, and rather successful.

Of course, again, in the shadow of Bob.

And then ultimately, when he passed away, it was HIV--

Robin had a drug problem, and they were all aware of it.

And Robin had a lot of girlfriends at the time,

and they were all taking care of him when he got sick.

Oh, so it came from some sort of intravenous drug?

- Use, correct. - Yeah, yeah.

And of course, that was devastating.

It was such a young life.

And you think about Bob's career was really taking off

in his late 20s and early 30,

and here is a guy who never even had a chance.

And that stuck.

It's stuck with him to this day,

he still talks about what a difficult life

that was for Robin.

When I was in eighth grade, my aunt came over,

and she brought a People magazine article

that had an article about Bob when Robin had passed away.

I knew my dad wasn't my biological father,

but I didn't know anything else really, otherwise.

We just didn't talk about it too much.

Um, so my aunt shared the article,

and my mom said, "Yeah, this is about your dad and your biological grandpa."

And, oh, I'm an awkward 13-year-old who didn't really

know what to say or do about it and didn't want my...

I thought it was really cool

because it was in People magazine.

So of course, I took the magazine to school

and showed all of my friends and things like that.

But I never really talked too much to my parents about it

because I figured it probably had

to be more of an awkward time in my mom's life.

And we talked about it a little bit then,

and she showed me prom pictures

of her and Rob going to prom together,

and a little bit about him, and cut to--

I'm thinking about it every once in a while throughout life.

My-- When I got married to Troy, my mother-in-law was like,

"You have to contact your grandpa. He can make you a wedding dress."

I'm like, "That is not really how I want to start..."

- What a lovely idea. - My-- Yeah, like, no.

Bob's granddaughter wrote a letter to the office and asked us,

essentially, she said,

"I'm Bob's granddaughter,

and I really don't want anything.

I just want to know him. I'd like to meet him,

and I have a daughter that I'd like him to know."

And she sent photographs.

And the photographs looked an awful lot like Bob's son, Robin.

And so there was an immediate connection

because she looked like Robin so much.

Yeah, well, the minute I got the letter,

I went, "Oh, my God. This is crazy.

I mean, really?

- Are we sure?" - Yeah.

You know? And then I call Lulu right away

and I said-- Because we're close.

We talk all the time.

And it's kind of like you just hope...

- You don't know what to think. - I can imagine.

Especially when you're out there and you're on TV,

and they're talking...

Who knows?

I mean, I just went, "Oh, my gosh."

But not exactly.

But yet, there's such a resemblance.

There's such a resemblance that--

- No, but I mean, it was just-- - It was like, wow.

Oh, okay, yeah.

I just said to her, I said, "I don't know.

I think it's pretty good."

It's wonderful, because for us,

we have this extension of our family now,

and it'll go on.

I'm still shaking my head at times.

I go, "Wow, this is just a miracle."

And here's a van. But there's someone, they have--

Someone must have a massive costume.

- Maybe Cher's in there. - No.

We're smuggling her in back.

We're smuggling her.

What is she wearing tonight, Bob?

- Do you know? - Because it goes with it.

- Yeah. - That's perfect.

Well, I know what she's supposed to be wearing.

She could change her mind, I suppose.

She's wearing-- She's doing a couple of--

Actually, only one ABBA song.

And she's in an ABBA-esque outfit

that she'll be using in her act later.

And it's purplish.

So do you ever get nervous on how it's going to come off?

Oh, I do.

- Really? - Yes.

- Okay, there it is. - Yes.

- So there's nerves. - I get very nervous about it,

because I want it always to be perfect,

and some people, you know, nothing's ever perfect.

So, what is perfect in your mind?

When you see it, what does it need to do?

That she looks exactly what we intended to have her look like.

You know, that's all.

He loves going through beads and sequins and fabric.

And he won't stop.

I said I want this new ABBA dress

and I don't want it to look like this or that.

I don't want to look like an ABBA girl,

but I want to look like something from that time period.

And Bob was such a genius,

and he sent me a sketch,

and two of my friends were with me.

They went, "He has still got it."

So when you were younger, what were you watching

that you kind of were saying to yourself,

"Oh, I wish I could dress like that someday"?

What actresses were you admiring at the time?

Well, I used to watch black-and-white movies

with my mom.

And so I would see, like, Carole Lombard and Dietrich

and Bette Davis and Ginger Rogers, who I loved.

And I didn't just admire the women

that were dressed beautifully.

I admired the women who were strong.

And that's what you were like when you put on a Bob Mackie?

Because he has drawn a lot of inspiration

from theater and a lot of the costumes that came before,

do you feel like when you put on those clothes,

you're harkening back, but it's also looking forward as well?

I never was making a statement.

I just loved wearing beautiful clothing.

And I was really poor when I was a kid,

so it was a dream come true, like Cinderella all the time.

- Go for it. - Go for what?

Walk into the studio.

You would go arm-in-arm like that?

I met Bob 1982.

Don't come out.

Since I started,

he worked with me.

And we understand each other.

- How were we? - All good.

What do you understand about him?

I understand his color sense, his imagination.

And he trusts me because he knows that I understand.

That's the thing, you know, in between us.

So there only has to be a few words between you

to understand what the direction is?

Yeah.

And I should have brought you one today.

We turned those...

- Oh, the robes? - ...and they look beautiful.

- They look-- - And how was the fringes?

- Perfect. - What do you call it?

- Perfect. - Okay.

And we pulled the bottom in just a little bit.

So it goes-- It doesn't go straight.

- It comes together. - It comes together. Yeah.

Oh, perfect.

See, they're... They're amazing.

He's the only one.

He's the only one.

I don't want to hurt the other designers that I work with.

They know too.

So...

What do you mean he's the only one?

He's the only one. He wants something,

he knows what he wants.

He sketches and he puts on his patterns.

And the... finish becomes the exact same thing

that he drew.

- So he's that precise? - Yes.

And I have no problem working with me.

And he's the only one who can do that, really?

Yeah. He's the only one who does this, you know, detail.

He doesn't think of it as a dying art. I mean,

Bob thinks that's the way you make beautiful clothes.

Hand-beading and embroidery, even machine embroidery.

But those techniques are things that he learned,

and they are so beautiful,

he thinks that we should continue using those methods.

The hand-beading is a process now that can be done in India.

It can be done in other countries

that know how to do that.

But for him, having the control

over the placement of the embroidery

and the placement of his drawing,

a lot of pattern makers figure out

where the embroidery is gonna go.

Bob insists on placing the paisley

or placing the flower,

whatever it is we're embroidering.

He figures out the scale and the size of that.

That's as important to him as the fit of the clothes.

She showed us in her studio how...

the sketches that you still do, the intricacy of the sketch.

Right?

She said all the other designers, they don't even...

They can't do that.

- Well, they don't do it. - They don't do it.

It's not as simple as that.

- You're an architect. - No, but I'm a control freak.

- I can't help it. - There it is.

That's the understatement of the week.

That's the meaning that whatever he has in his mind,

he wants to get it out the way he wants to.

- I mean-- - Nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with it. It's not the control freak.

It's the way he wants it.

And we do it.

That's the secret.

But nothing wrong with doing things right.

Exactly.

The actual craft of making it counts how much in each--

Oh, it means everything.

You can make the most beautiful sketches in the world,

and if it's not made right, if it doesn't really fit,

it's not finished properly, and it doesn't move properly,

it's not good.

And that happens.

There are a lot of people out there making costumes

that aren't very good at it,

and a lot of designers that don't know anything

about how to do it.

That, to me, is the scariest part,

that they can be in a career for decades and never--

They just sort of drop off the sketch and come back when it's finished.

That's disaster.

It's not easy to just imagine.

He gets the material and he draws.

He has the sequin, he has the rhinestones,

he has the beads, and he puts them together.

He has the imagination. He does it.

They did-- They copied the...

I don't know. I'm going to show you the picture.

It's a Halloween costume.

You see, there, you really can see that--

...photograph. There you go.

So all of the women behind

the beautiful outfits are...

- Hold on, please. - Armenians.

I have to say, I don't know how Bob does it.

I hate designing costumes for people.

I do it.

In fact, there are several people I do it for quite often.

And there are people

that I've developed a relationship with.

So maybe it was like this for Bob.

But the reason I don't like it

is it's always been so hard for me

to deal with the personalities because I'm very dictatorial.

And you have to imagine that fitting room

was not always just a love fest.

That there were times when there was negotiation

and maybe bad behavior.

"Well, I'm not sure I like that. Oh, yeah, yeah."

But there's always that customer who's not sure,

and, "Are you sure?"

And then they call the manager in,

and then they call the husband or the wife or whatever.

I don't want to work with people like that.

They have to trust me.

If they don't trust me, I'm not interested.

What are they trusting? What are they--

They trust that I'll do the right thing for them

and I'll make them look good.

But they're always questioning everything.

From what Bob has shared with me,

he often says Barbie is his favorite client.

Like, you know, she doesn't complain.

If he sticks a pin in her, she won't say ouch.

He's done almost 60 Barbie dolls for us,

including one-of-a-kinds.

He loves kind of taking Barbie to new, over-the-top places

that no one else has taken her before.

Within the collector community,

I think the response was really exciting to see this.

You know, Bob Mackie put his signature style on Barbie.

Please stop staring. Yes, it's Cher.

Okay, that's it. Nothing for us.

This Cher thing is out of control.

How the Cher and Will & Grace happened,

I can't say for certain,

but, I mean, I'm really glad it did.

I think it was such a big moment in pop culture.

You know, dude, it is a little weird that you're talking to my doll.

I don't think I need a drag queen to define normal behavior.

But I will say this.

The look is flawless.

Whatever.

Ooh. Working the attitude.

Okay, you're good.

I've had a lot of practice.

Hey, hey, hey. You're not that great, Mr. Sister.

All right? I do a better Cher than you.

You think so?

Actually, it's, "You think so-ho?"

Tina Turner, Bette Midler, Cher.

I mean, these are the divas, right?

- Diana Ross. - Diana Ross.

She does everything. You know, it isn't just--

The dress doesn't count. It's who wears the dress.

I want to see her in that fabulous dress.

How do you feel in a Bob Mackie dress?

And how do you keep that stylish figure?

Thank you very much.

- You still got it. - Thank you very much.

I'm not sure that I keep that stylish figure.

This native Californian, Mr. Bob Mackie,

honed his exquisite sense of glamour

and theatricality into an art form.

No one does what Mackie does the way Mackie does it.

The secret of building a garment to perfection

is something I have come to long ago,

come to love and respect.

The body is transformed under his guidance.

♪ Every day ♪

♪ -But I look ♪ ♪ -And I know ♪

What's the secret with all these women, these divas?

Well, I'm very careful about making them

what I think is good, you know,

what looks flattering, very often.

And you see them on their own sometimes

and you go, "They don't do that."

You know, just where you put things.

Kind of proportion and placement is everything

- if you know what I mean. - Yeah.

Oh, that feels so good to me.

I wish you could feel it too.

Listen, let me tell you about it.

She was in Hollywood

and she was appearing as a guest star by herself.

And I go, "What's going on?"

Evidently, she had left Ike at that point.

And she was hiding out from Ike and moving from hotel

to hotel with her assistant and just doing

these guest shots on The Sonny and Cher Show,

and The Cher Show and different things.

And she was trying to make a career for herself.

♪ If I can't ask you ♪

♪ Shame, shame, shame, shame ♪

♪ Shame, shame, shame ♪

♪ Shame on you ♪

♪ If I can't ask you ♪

And then she got to know me

because I started doing things on those variety shows

and dressing her,

and she kind of goes, "Oh, somebody actually does this."

♪ Music making in my bed ♪

♪ Let the music ♪

She would buy cheap evening gowns in Paris

at these little shops.

Not great, but just something she liked or liked the fabric.

And she'd bring it in.

She'd say, "Can we make this look like a cave woman?"

And I said, "Sure."

And I'd put it on her and I'd just start cutting.

"Can I go a little higher here?"

"Yeah, sure."

- "Can I pull it over here?" - "Yeah," and I'd pin it.

And we would redo these funny, inexpensive evening dresses

into Tina Turner outfits.

♪ About the feeling Let it come through ♪

♪ Shake your music maker ♪

♪ Shake it, shake it, shake it ♪

♪ Shake your music maker ♪

And of course, the legs. She's a little--

She has a shorter torso and long, long legs.

And when she was younger,

the legs were long and slender and muscular and beautiful.

And they put those high heels on.

And she's fun. She's really fun.

And she's-- She'll, you know, have a couple glasses of wine

and tell you the best stories ever.

I loved watching her backstage.

She'd throw a couple of Tylenols in and put her high heels on

and hit the stage. It was just crazy.

Her name is... Proud...

The last tour she did, I got very involved.

And we were doing the chorus and the dancers and everybody,

and it was fun. It was work, but it was fun.

And another thing...

There are certain people in this world

that were born to be entertainers.

They just are. They can't help themselves.

All right.

I mean, they're just good.

And she's one of those, that she just takes the audience

and runs with it.

Bette Midler's like that.

There's a lot of people like that.

Cher kind of stands there and says, "Well, here I am.

What do you think?" And they love it.

But it's a whole different attitude of performing.

Well, there are people that are great fashion designers

that aren't always good costume designers.

It isn't the same job.

You have to be theatrical in your mind.

You have to be able to read the script and say,

"Oh, it should be this way here,

and the color should be this or that."

Or, "I want to explode here,"

or, "I want all of a sudden, to do a color that the audience

just sits up and goes, 'Oh, my God.'"

You have to think about all that.

You have to think about the mood and the person's talent

that's wearing it.

Can they wear this? Can they get away with it?

Are they--

Are they a personality that can make this work?

Mr. President, on this occasion of your birthday,

Marilyn Monroe.

Well, I was working for a designer, a French designer,

called Jean Louis.

And as a kid, I always thought that some lady

named Jean Louis was doing these clothes.

And, you know, how did I know?

I looked at, "Well, it's Jean Louis.

Who is this Jean Louis? She does pretty good work."

I didn't know. I didn't know.

How did you get the position then?

Well, I just-- I needed a job and I was right out of school.

And that school was what?

Chouinard Art Institute, which was a great art school.

And a lot of their graduates were,

are still costume designers.

And the person that usually did his sketches for him

was sick, you know, and not available,

and he was trying to find somebody.

And there was a fellow at Western Costume who,

when somebody needed some help,

he would have names that people would come to see him.

And he sent me over and I got the job.

And it was funny because I had a portfolio

with a lot of good sketches, a lot of good stuff,

but there was one sketch,

and he looked at that and said, "Oh, yeah, get him. He'll be good."

And I said-- My portfolio looked mostly

like fashion illustration.

It didn't look like movie clothes.

And so I said, "Well, I've got to gear it more

to trying to get a job in the movies."

So, what made the Marilyn dress so famous.

Obviously, you have Bob Mackie, Jean Louis,

Marilyn Monroe wearing the dress.

She got fired from Fox because she went to New York

to do that 90-second performance

in front of President Kennedy

for his early birthday celebration

in front of the Democratic National Convention

with 15,000 people in the room.

And she wanted to wear a dress that no one else would wear,

that no one else could pull off.

And she walked on that stage, when the lights went on,

the fabric of the dress was like it was a nude color.

So it was to give-- When the lights hit

all those hand-stitched crystals on the dress,

it gave the impression that she was naked on stage.

♪ Happy birthday Mr. President ♪

♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

And, like, the crowd just went, "Wow."

That's the moment that people are buying.

It's that moment in history.

It's the Marilyn meets the presidential,

a time in history, and Marilyn knew.

She risked everything: losing her job, getting fired from Fox.

She knew that this would be a life-changing event for her

and the world.

And she wowed.

And Bob Mackie, 21 years of age, was the gentleman

at the beginning of that, creating that amazing sketch.

Were you aware about the Marilyn Monroe dress?

Going way back, when she sang "Happy Birthday, Mr. President"?

I knew about that dress.

Yeah, he was responsible

for sketching that originally, for the--

Well, now that's something I never knew.

- You never knew that? - No.

- Oh, my God. - No.

Well, he's not gonna run around telling me.

Why not? Why?

"Guess what I did."

Well, that's just not how he is.

But isn't that funny?

- I didn't know that. - Yeah.

"Happy Birthday, Mr. President." Oh, my God.

Yes, '61. Absolutely, just the beginning. Yeah.

Yeah, it really was.

It was '61, but it had started changing about '57 or so,

from that real Happy Days sort of '50s look.

Also, a little thing called the Kennedys

came into the White House.

And there was Jacqueline Kennedy,

who was considered the chicest woman in the country.

And actually, John Kennedy was a friend of Judy Garland's.

And on his birthday, I was at her house on a Sunday,

and she picked up the phone.

She said, "Oh, I have to call John."

And she picked up the phone and sang happy birthday to him

because it was his birthday.

You were at the house?

I was at the house, because on Sunday nights,

her show was on.

♪ And sang ♪

♪ San Francisco, I'm going home again ♪

I got a job on The Judy Garland Show

as an assistant costume designer.

How did you get that job?

Well, I had a very good friend, a "very" good friend,

who got the job.

But this was somebody that was a good designer, Ray Aghayan,

but he didn't draw.

And so I was his assistant.

And I was in charge of, usually, the chorus

and maybe guest stars and things.

And he would do Judy.

But then I would work with him with the sketches and stuff.

And she had a very difficult little figure.

She was 4' 11." Really short girl.

She was 42, and she'd lived pretty hard.

She could get it all together.

♪ Days may be cloudy or sunny ♪

♪ We're in Or we're out of the money ♪

And I would say, "Oh, don't put that on her.

That's not good on her," you know,

because there was a lot to do.

You start on Monday and you finish-- You shoot it on Friday,

and, boy, it better be good.

♪ The best is yet to come Come the day you're mine ♪

Well, it was just-- It would be Ray and me

and a couple of people from the show, maybe.

They would change, you know.

And sometimes she'd just be by herself

and want somebody to watch with.

Oh, my God, really?

Well, yeah, you know, everybody can't be everywhere every week.

And it was-- It was kind of sad in a way

because she didn't have a lot of close friends that I knew of.

♪ We got each other ♪

♪ We're two lost sheep ♪

Hanging out at Judy Garland's house,

- you're having a cocktail... - Well, yeah.

...watching the show.

At 23, I was kind of like, "Oh, good." You know.

But then I got very comfortable because I was there quite often.

So Bob Mackie was-- We know the gowns,

we know the dresses, we know the couturier,

but he was much more than that.

And when Judy Garland met Bob Mackie, violins played.

It just went into a love affair like you'd never seen.

Judy was absolutely mesmerized by Bob Mackie.

And so then Bob would come in with the sketches.

Bob Mackie was not only a great designer and a great artist,

but he was also the world's greatest salesman.

He would walk in, he could sell Judy on anything.

Well, you didn't temper Judy. You survived Judy.

Judy was always kind of testing you a little bit, you know?

And Bob Mackie would survive any test.

See, those were special people.

We don't have those people anymore.

We have singers and we have dancers

and we have actresses and so forth.

But we don't have the kind of event

that Cher was and that Judy was, and Carol Burnett too.

He made them feel special.

He made them confident. He made them secure.

And so when they put on a Bob Mackie gown,

they all of a sudden felt they were the part.

So, what was the nature of Bob and Ray's relationship?

Did you witness them together at all?

Ray Aghayan and Bob Mackie were like a symphony.

I mean, they never really had to say that much.

They just understood each other.

Ray was very grand. He came from Iran,

and his mother was a big deal in Iran.

She was a couturier and dressed all the royalty

and whatever at the time.

And then he was very continental and foreign, and smoked.

You know, he had everything but a fez on his head.

The first time I ever met Ray, he called me in New York

about 25 years ago, and I answered the phone

and he said, "Joseph, this is Raymond Aghayan.

I'm Bob's partner."

- Yes, that sounds like him. - Well, but it made it clear

that it was more than business partner.

Well, we-- Lulu and I had just--

We adored each other and we were best friends,

but we split up as man and wife because she was auditioning

and going off to New York and doing stuff,

and I was still in school.

And I quit school and went out for auditions for...

To be a costume designer assistant.

And Lulu-- Lulu remarried.

She had other husbands.

She had a husband, who was an agent.

I didn't like him very much, but that was all right.

I didn't have to like him.

She didn't stay married to him for very long.

Robin didn't like him either.

So it was one of those.

And then one time, the second husband,

he says, "Well, what is this guy that--?

What does he do?"

"Well, he's a costume designer."

"Well, he must be gay."

That's the first thing you get.

- They just assume that. - And I said--

- That's right. - And I went to myself,

I said, "Well, yeah, he's right. And--

Did Robin have questions?

Because that was an impressionable age.

Well, yes, it was.

And he-- I was very upset when I decided

that I wasn't being completely honest with her or with him,

and that I didn't know what to do.

But I said, "I can't--"

I see these people in Hollywood who have a wife and a boyfriend.

I said, "I can't--

I can't go out of town on a job and do things,

and then come back home and pretend not to."

That just seemed so wrong to me, and the whole thing was wrong.

And it was one of the hardest things I ever went through,

was telling her this.

If I hated or couldn't stand her,

that would be different, you know, a little bit, I suppose, but...

- But I-- - You had guilt because you--

I had big guilt, and I cried.

And I was, "Oh, what am I going to do now?"

It was-- It's still hard when I think about it.

Gonna do a new show, The Mitzi Gaynor Show .

Clever title, huh?

So I called Ray Aghayan.

And he said, "Hello, how are you, darling?"

I said, "I'm marvelous. How are you?"

He said, "I'm okay."

I said, "I want you to do my new show."

He says, "I can't." I said, "But I love you."

And he said, "I love you too, darling, but I'm up to my ass in Judy Garland."

She was doing a show.

So he says, "But you know that that name,

Bob Mackie."

And he said, "Bob Mackie is my best friend in the world,

and he's working at Paramount sketching for Edith Head."

So I said, "Okay, I'll see him."

There's a knock at the door.

A little face says, "Ms. Gaynor?"

I said, "Yes?" I've got this little boy,

he's wanting me to sign his autograph.

I said, "Yes, come in."

He said, "My name is Bob Mackie."

I said, "For god's sake, your voice hasn't even changed yet."

Did you get the impression this boyish man

who you met originally had the endurance and the ability

to pull this off?

What happened was, we had seen Mitzi Gaynor.

So we thought, "Can we do--?" My gosh, and it was Bob Mackie.

Bob Mackie, Bob Mackie. Wow.

And the versatility was so impressive.

So we got in touch with him, bing-bong,

and I opened the door, and there was this child.

Beautiful blond Adonis.

He looked like he was a newspaper boy.

Like, you know-- He looked like he was 12. And I said, "Yes?"

He said, "Hi, I'm Bob Mackie."

And he came in and we talked and everything,

and he was so charming.

- And I never had any doubt. - Really?

And we hired him right on the spot.

And I think he was 26 or 27 at the time,

but he looked like he was about 18.

- Yeah. - He still does.

A lot of people think he just did what I wore,

but he designed for everybody.

Every bit of costuming that you saw on our show

that the dancers, the singers, the guest stars,

the rep company, we all were dressed by Bob.

So you do the math.

We did 276 shows, something like that.

So in 11 years, he designed 17,000 costumes.

You, sir, are no gentleman.

And you, Ms. O'Hara, are no lady.

Starlett, I love you.

You and I are cut out of the same rotten, dirty cloth.

The Gone With the Wind , that's what everybody thinks of.

That will go in the time capsule

as one of the longest laughs ever.

And that was Bob's idea.

Look, Ms. Starlett, isn't that Captain Butler's carriage now?

Oh, Lord, what am I going to do?

Well, I've got an idea.

When he comes in, why don't you hide behind the drapes?

Sissy, help me take these down.

Well, what are you doing that for?

Never you mind.

Now, listen, when he gets here, you just keep him busy.

- You understand? - Yes ma'am.

Because I got me a dress to make.

Yes, ma'am.

And the sketch itself is very funny.

I mean, all the way through, it was funny.

And so when it came to her putting the curtains

into a dress, making the curtains into a dress,

the writers wrote that I would just come down the stairs

with them hanging, just like that.

And Bob thought, "This sketch is very funny,

so we gotta-- That's not that funny."

And then he thought, he said, "Well, maybe he'll

redo the real dress."

No, everybody's seen that.

And then he came up with the curtain-rod idea.

And I remember I went into costume fitting that week,

and he said, "I have an idea for the curtain dress."

And I went into the room and there it was, you know.

I fell on the floor, I was laughing so hard.

I said, "This is going to be

one of the greatest sight gags in the history of television."

You knew that?

I knew it right from the get-go. I mean, yeah.

And it was hard for me, walking down the stairs,

to keep a straight face--

And I'm looking at Harvey, and he's trying to keep it together.

And I had to bite the inside of my cheek because--

To keep myself from breaking up with the reaction.

And I went like this.

What--? What brings you to Tara?

You, you vixen, you.

Starlett, I love you.

That-- That gown is gorgeous.

Thank you,

I saw it in the window and I just couldn't resist it.

- How did it feel when it was on? - It was heavy.

It was heavy.

But anything for a laugh.

I'll say.

For so many years, people are still laughing about that dress.

And the original one is in the Smithsonian.

Bob would say "They're gonna put that on my tombstone."

You know, that, and maybe Cher's Mohawk.

Actually, the man that designed Gone With the Wind

did a drawing for me

when I did the curtain-rod dress on Carol Burnett .

And he sent me a little drawing of me racing with Edith Head

for the finish line.

But, you know, he had a different relationship with all of us.

I think mine is the deepest, goes the deepest.

And as the time went by

and we spent so much time together over all those years,

and he would have to--

He would have to think up one thing after another.

And I can show you outfits, and you go,

how did he go from that to this and then to this?

And how did he just keep on going for all those years?

It's, what, 50-something years.

I didn't know enough to know what he would become,

but I knew enough to know who he was.

So looking back, did you ever feel

the pressure of expectation

of constantly reinventing yourself with Bob

- over the years? - No.

I never felt pressure to do anything.

You have to know me.

And you? How do you feel about fame?

It's the work that counts, you know, if you do good work.

- It'll come. - Yeah, well--

Kind of like a byproduct.

Well, yeah, but sometimes, you do really good work

and nobody pays any attention to it because,

for whatever reason, who knows?

And then other times, they do.

But it's important to do good work and to be serious about it.

A lot of people think being a costume designer

is kind of flamboyant and silly and whatever, whatever.

You know, and it's not serious.

It's very serious if you dress somebody up

and they go out there and nothing works,

and it doesn't help them.

That's serious to you?

Yeah, and, well, it is serious.

And if you're doing comedy and you don't get any laughs,

forget it.

It's-- It's over.

Don't expect any screams for me, kids.

- Keep going. - Keep going.

- Keep going. - Bob?

- Let's go. - Bob.

He seems a little nervous.

Crazy.

It was fun to see Bob in his element,

because when we visit, it's always at his house.

So we go to things, or here at the house.

I did want to kill Joe, though, because I asked him

what I should wear.

And he said, "Just wear-- Just wear what you always wear.

You're fine, just whatever."

And when the guy behind me found out

I was Bob Mackie's granddaughter,

he said to me, "Who are you wearing?"

And I'm like, "Oh, don't ask me that

because it was a Target dress."

Well, Target's good.

I know, but the guy thought she should have been there

- in some designer-- - No, but, I mean, you're--

- It was funny. - But it was fun.

Yeah, we had a great time.

Right now, this is special.

This artist is a Grammy-winning singer,

an Oscar-winning actress, an Emmy-winning TV star,

and a fashion icon.

She's one of the biggest-selling singers of all time.

America, make some noise for Cher.

♪ My, my ♪

♪ At Waterloo Napoleon did surrender ♪

♪ Oh, yeah ♪

♪ And I have met my destiny In quite a similar way ♪

♪ The history book On the shelf ♪

♪ Is always repeating itself ♪

♪ Waterloo ♪

♪ If I could turn back time ♪

♪ If I could find a way ♪

♪ I'd take back those words That hurt you ♪

You knew I wasn't gonna let this film end without talking

about that moment on the ship.

I had an idea, and it went too far.

But...

I don't know. It worked for the song.

It was a little bit-- It was a little bit too much.

♪ Words are like weapons They wound sometimes ♪

That's the one he said,

"Don't ever tell anybody that I made this for you."

And he's right. It was terrible.

Well, with this-- On the big ship with the sailors,

she got nervous about that one.

That was really a vulgar, horrible outfit.

♪ If I could turn back time ♪

♪ If I could find a way ♪

♪ I'd take back all... ♪

When I was on the ship with the sailors, they--

I have to tell you, they kept calling me ma'am,

so I didn't feel so bad.

Bob denied that he did it for many years because...

Well, let him tell you about that-- Why that's--

Well, what's your take?

- You didn't like it? - It's like a seat belt.

It's like two strips of a seat belt and a leather jacket.

And it was a boat with thousands of sailors.

Come on.

♪ My world was shattered I was torn apart ♪

♪ Like someone took a knife And drove it deep in my heart ♪

Joe described that as a couple of seat belts.

There were all kinds of descriptions for that one.

♪ Darling, then and there ♪

♪ Too strong to tell you I was sorry ♪

♪ Too proud to tell you I was wrong ♪

♪ I know that I was blind ♪

♪ And darling If I could turn back time ♪

♪ If I could find a way ♪