All language subtitles for 02 Counterfeit World - The Making of To Live and Die in L.A._track2_[eng]_DELAY 40ms

I thought To Live and Die in L .A. was,
in all, about a counterfeit world.

Counterfeit emotions.

Counterfeit money.

counterfeit superstructure of the Secret
Service.

Everyone in the film has a kind of
counterfeit motive.

So it seemed to me that the whole film
was about counterfeit relations.

We have never seen L .A., or hadn't at
the time, depicted as we see it in this

film. This is the L .A. that Billy had
come to know.

Those streets of East L .A. and the
freeways and just that whole world.

Billy's so suited for this movie because
Billy's very in touch with the darkness

that is in all of it.

He's very in touch with the gritty,
darker side.

He's very good at finding access to
those worlds.

There's a weight and an authority about
him.

When he goes into those worlds, people
open up to him. They don't think he's a

tourist, because they know.

Deli's happy and he's serious about what
he's doing.

When I read Gerald Petrovich's novel, To
Live and Die in LA, I first thought

it's very authentic.

What attracted me to it, though, was
the...

absolutely surrealistic nature of the
job of a Secret Service man outside of

Washington. Right there, fella!

The Secret Service is under the
Treasury.

All bad bills and false checks and
counterfeit credit cards comes under

does the protection of the President.

That's what attracted me to this. It was
a kaleidoscope of various types of

crime from the importance of the country
at stake to a fifty dollar bad check

i have found that the

nature of cops and criminals is very
similar they understand each other's

as though they're brethren and even the
good cops are guys who are walking a

very fine line most of the time u .s
secret service i'm arresting this guy

counterfeiting It was a lot of fun to
have a badge and a gun and be this

character who, because he's got a badge
and a gun, he's not only above the law,

he's above life and death in his head.

It really was an amazing, intoxicating
experience for me. I

mean, I got along with Billy Great.

I found him to be brilliant, fast,
funny.

It was a real joy to do this stuff.

I learned a tremendous amount from
Billy, not just about acting or

but about how to operate in this bizarre
business and how to survive it.

Willem had done maybe a couple of
movies. He had a couple of movies on his

Peterson and I had done virtually
nothing.

And he was fantastic with patience and
just...

therefore, in a really positive way and
in a really creative way.

And because he is in touch with that
whole world, the good, the bad, and the

ugly of that world, he was a tremendous
source of information for us. It was

really a run -and -gun, shoot -from -the
-hip, fast -break sort of offense that

we were playing in that movie that Billy
guided us through.

We started off with a $6 million budget,
and everyone took pretty low salaries.

It was kind of a common knowledge that
this was not a big exorcist -type

I wanted to make an independent film,
let's put it that way, and I wanted to

it with guys who knew how to work
quickly.

Like Robbie Mueller, who was the
director of photography, who had worked

Wim Wenders, the German director.

Most of our crew was kind of non -union
because Robbie Mueller chose his own

crew and he wasn't in the union.

But it wasn't really to save money. It
was just that that's a crew that Billy

wanted because it was a hit and run.

It wasn't a soundstage movie. We shot
everything practical on the streets or

whatever buildings that he wanted to
shoot in.

The fact that Billy shoots quickly and
the fact that he will often use the

take really helped because there was a
feeling often of flying by the seat of

your pants, which was a good thing. It
gave it an immediacy, I think, that

the film.

Cut.

Good. Cut.

First of all, let me say, I don't like
rehearsing at all.

But I would set up a situation where
they thought I was rehearsing, and then

say, all right, that's it, cut, let's
move on. And they'd say, what?

They thought it was rehearsal.

It was a take.

He was always rolling on rehearsals or
whatever, you know, just in case he got

stuff he wanted to use.

Later, Alvarez.

Next time you can make a jump with me. I
remember doing a rehearsal shot where

we walk out of the bar.

We weren't even thinking about it. We
didn't think we were even having to do

Next thing I know...

The scene was over.

He used the whole shot.

He knew what he wanted, he knew what he
got in the shot, he knew how he was

going to use it later, so he didn't have
to come in and do all this, you know,

well, we better get this, we better get
this, we better get this.

He just said, that's it, we got it,
we're out of here.

I believe in spontaneity.

That's what I want to see in a
performance.

And I have found in my experience that
the best... takes i get are the ones i

didn't tinker with at all we talked
about it the actors were properly cast

knew what they were doing they went out
and did it federal agents excuse me ma

'am i'd like to see the bills that man
just handed you please

u

.s secret service

The airport sequence, we shot on the
Bradley at the International Airport.

Billy Peterson wanted to get through the
crowd, so the best way for him to do it

is to jump on the tram things that run
both ways.

And that's what you're not supposed to
do.

Billy comes over to me and he goes, you
know, the airport officials are here.

They've told us that you can't do that.
In fact, they're going to throw us out

of here if we try to do that.

I said, Billy, that thing is great.

We've got to do that. It's great.

He goes...

Yeah, I agree.

So, I'm going to say we're rehearsing,
but I'm going to have Robbie and the

other guys roll footage on this.

And if it just so happens that you
forget and jump up there anyway, well,

know, what can we say?

Then, of course, they were all down on
us. They were screaming and yelling.

Billy's like, well, he did it. I didn't,
you know, I didn't tell him to do it. I

told him not to do it. Why did you do
that?

And again, that's what was great about
working with Billy, because it was all

about getting what you had to get.

Okay, bring them all back to one.

Good.

For me, since I was, you know, I had
this double thing of being an artist and

criminal, he really wanted to get me
painting.

I think that was important because it
rooted that character's whole

It was almost more important to
investigate him as an artist than as a

And this whole idea of making the money
to support the art, to destroy the art,

it's a pretty interesting do.

That was one of my favorite sequences in
the movie, though.

The whole setup of Willem as a
counterfeiter.

He blows on the metal sheet. So
fantastic, that sequence. I thought that

sequence was magnificent.

Because, you know, it looks so
incredibly authentic.

And that is where you've got to go,
bravo, Billy Friedkin, man, for getting

touch with the people who could get you
that close to the real thing.

I love that sequence.

It's so beautiful.

And you realize how easy it is, and on
the other hand, how it is an art.

The whole counterfeiting montage in the
movie is so precise because we got some

guys that knew how to do that. We didn't
ask questions, but I think they even

did time for doing it.

Billy wanted it as realistic as
possible.

And how you make money from the very
beginning to the end of it.

We got a hold of a...

I guess you can call him a consultant.

And the consultant did all the real
intricate work, putting the ink in and

the little touches. And then Willem came
in and did that also.

He made over a million dollars worth of
money, and there was only three things

wrong with this money.

Obviously the paper and two small little
other things.

It was never meant to be passed, and it
never meant to be done anything but

burned. You didn't really want to burn a
whole bunch of real $20 bills, but you

couldn't have it printed only on one
side, because as you threw it in, you'd

the back was white.

So we actually printed on both sides,
which I think that's where you cross the

line. Not bad at all.

Not bad.

We were out in the desert, printing
money.

And there was a real tension when we
heard some helicopters go overhead.

Because I think the laws on
counterfeiting are so tight that if

someone really wanted to bust us,
they're right on the spot. We would have

been in real trouble.

After we shot the scenes, I burned
almost a million dollars so I wouldn't

out. But you know how on a set
sometimes...

Somebody got a hold of a few bucks, and
that's how things go down.

Somebody on the set took the bills home
and had a teenage son, and he and a

friend took the bills and went off to a
grocery store and tried to buy some

Twinkies or something, and they offered
the guy behind the counter a one -sided

20.

Within five minutes, the store...

manager had the treasury department
there.

And they grabbed these kids, where'd you
get this money?

I got it from my dad.

Where'd he get it?

Boom, up pops the name of our property
master, Barry Bedig, who was in charge

the counterfeit money.

The Secret Service got kind of upset.

So about 10 .30 at night, they came at
my house banging on the door.

and said they wanted to see me downtown.

Well, that one time went into six times.

I came back to the set one day, and I
said, Billy, gee, this is the sixth time

I've been down to the Federal Building.
He says, listen, next time you go down

there, tell them to either book you or
let you go. And I said, what do you

book me?

That's just Billy. I mean, he doesn't
bend to certain authority.

That was an authority figure that he
wasn't about to give in to.

And there are people, like Masters, who
spend their life making counterfeit

money, and then they go to jail, and
they get out.

That's something Panko and I have been
working on in our off days here in

Malibu.

It's just the front side, you know, but
as soon as we get this figured out, then

we'll work on the back side.

Okay, you're both under arrest.

And whoever the studio president is
through.

I'm taking it with me. I'm taking it
back to the office.

Sorry, I got more.

One of the tremendous aspects about
Billy Friedkin is how collaborative he

a director, how he brings everybody in,
the actors, and says, okay, we're in

this together.

Let's tell it together.

He called Billy Peterson and myself to
go down to Ruthie's house in San Pedro.

So we were going to actually have
rehearsal. So I was very excited. I

my God, this is a film where I'm
actually getting a rehearsal, not just a

read -through.

We went down to San Pedro. Bill came
with us. We drove down there. And we get

into the house, which was like perfect.
It was just the most perfect set. And to

get to live in your set, to get to
actually experience that, really helped

character develop so well.

So then...

Bill Friedkin said to Billy and myself,
he says, well, I'm going to lunch. I'll

see you guys in a couple hours.

You work on it.

And he left.

And it was just so wonderful.

It's like we looked at each other and
said, okay, let's get to work.

Can I ask you something?

Sure.

What would you do if I stopped giving
you information?

The films that... move me the most are
the ones where the performances seem

timeless, where it looks like the camera
was just peeking in, just happened to

be there while this stuff was taking
place.

And so I told the actors to make it as
real as possible.

Make it real.

Well, there was a lot of edgy things
about that movie. And again, it's a

question of trust, you know, and I think
Billy had all of our trust at all

times. So that when he said, you know,
look, we're going to do this, we're

to do that, we're going to do this,
there was no argument against it. The

argument you would come up with is I
feel uncomfortable, and that's the actor

getting in the way.

Billy Peterson and I trusted each other
to make that choice, and we trusted

Bill.

When you feel trusted as an actor, you
know you can fly.

It gives you absolutely magnificent
wings because you know you can try

and you're not going to be made fun of.

Billy's got a nose, you know.

And if something changes and he thinks
it's going to an interesting place,

ride it out. I've seen him chase down
instincts, you know, and have it take

to real interesting places.

He creates ingredients and then wants
something to happen.

He sets up every shot. It's not like
it's arbitrary shots.

It's like he lines it up, sets it up
with the DP, whether it's a dolly shot

whether it's a crane shot or whether
it's a close -up or a medium or wide.

His eye is right there to set it up.

And then you continue looking.

He never changes setups and moves around
or hunting for a setup.

God, I don't know where to put the
camera. He knows exactly where he's

put the camera and exactly what he
wants.

which is beneficial to everybody on the
crew.

I get all the taste, brother.

Yo, yo, yo, yo.

Hello, Jeff.

What are you doing in my crib?

You sent two assholes to do Cody and
they blew it.

Action, Ernest.

The scene where we go to the house and I
kind of surprise them, that was some

serious fighting in there.

That was a really incredible ass
-kicking going on there.

He wanted it nasty.

He wanted to take the lamps and take the
cords and use what was there, not to

make these guys look like they were
professional fighters, but they had an

instinct or two about how to kill
somebody.

We're going to have to follow him down,
but I want to be tight on his face and

see him crumble into it.

Okay? Robert, just clear the front for a
second, please.

Willem can relax.

Our goal was to, you know, jump on it
and not be inhibited by it at all.

Otherwise, it wouldn't have been the
same movie.

I remember at one time Billy saying,
look, I don't want marks. I don't want

to hit marks. I want them to do what
they do and you capture it. Come on out

there. This is not a mark. There are no
marks.

Now!

John! Beautiful.

Okay, clean him up.

Woo!

Nice.

You know, there was a lot of times where
he just left the cameras going on us to

see what would happen, and we just never
stopped until somebody said stop.

You know, if we didn't hear stop, we
just kept making our own movie.

Over the chain.

There's a scene where I come out of the
car, we got the guy, and they had one of

these Halliburton...

where the money's supposed to be, but
they thought the scene was going to end

before we got to the place where I was
going to beat the thing up against the

abutment.

Well, nobody said cut, so I just kept
pounding the thing. I figured I had the

one that was locked. It was never going
to break.

I just let Peterson keep going, and lo
and behold, he smashed the briefcase so

hard that the lock broke.

and you saw that there was nothing in
the briefcase except a phone book.

That's very funny.

Nobody said stop, so we just went right
on. You know, we grabbed the guy, kicked

him, threw him in the dirt, dragged the
belt off of him. And I think you see it

in the movie, there's a life to it that
is real, because it was real.

Get your pants off.

What do you mean, get your fucking pants
off? Get the fuck out of here!

It just played out, and it's a fantastic
moment.

It kept them in the reality.

You had to be ready to go as far as you
could go with it. You all right?

I'm crazy.

You hoped they'd stop it before somebody
got hurt.

Get out of here. Come on. Come on.

The pace scene was one of our last
things to shoot.

We were definitely going to go over
budget and over schedule, and it took us

weeks to shoot the one scene.

We were going to continue to shoot until
he got what he wanted.

We had done all the principal
photography, and then all of a sudden we

really stripped -down unit.

We had no trucks coming with us, no
wardrobe, no makeup. It was 40 stunt

Friedkin and Panko and me. We were going
all over L .A., blocking off streets

and just spinning out.

You don't need a lot of people to shoot
a chase, because when you're shooting a

chase, it's one shot at a time, maybe
with multiple cameras from different

angles, but one shot at a time.

And these are all the stunt drivers that
we're going to be having working on the

show. What are their names?

Richard Ellis, Bobby Bass, David Ellis,
Dick Zyker. And my name's Buddy Joe

Hooker, yeah.

He says, you know, if we can come up
with a chase that's better than the

connection, then it'll be in the movie.
If we do something that isn't, it won't

be in the movie. And I believed him.

I like to do a lot of diagramming
myself.

Big chase sequences and stuff. The way I
see them best and the way that I can

explain them to people best is
diagramming them.

Overviews of who goes where and what's
happening and camera positions.

And if he's crossing, then I want you to
cross. So when we're coming with the

camera, we see this kind of thing.

The chase requires a lot of cutting to
be made to work.

Actions and reactions, points of view.

It's like knitting.

It's painstaking.

It's knit one and purl two.

First, there was all this stuff leading
up to the freeway.

We did a lot of it ourselves.

I was able to do a lot of the driving
stuff, you know, and I wanted to do all

it. You know, I got to the point where
it was much more fun to be doing the

stunts than it was to be doing any of
the acting stuff, you know.

If you're driving a car that fast, it's
happening.

Poor Panko.

The blood would just drain out of his
face every morning when he would find

what I was going to be doing with him in
the back seat.

It was not lost on me that the car chase
the last five weeks were shot at the

end of the movie.

I mean, if something happens to one of
us, they still got a movie.

We've seen all the movies.

Most of them, you just go, hey, that
doesn't happen.

But to do real stuff and still make it
work, that's a challenge.

The whole thing with the train, just
being a part of that whole thing was

amazing just to see how it all got put
together.

He'll go around the train and we'll lose
him in that angle. You know, catch the

train, pass it.

Then he won't go through the fence until
we move the cameras over here and down

there.

I just figured out the MacGuffin.

Once you hit the riverbed and you're out
of this thing and you think you're out,

all of a sudden two guys come barreling
straight at you.

And they start coming at you.

Then you turn and you're out of that and
some guys start firing out the window.

So everywhere you go, it'll be like a
nightmare.

They just come at you. And that's what
forces you on the wrong way freeway.

I thought, what have I not seen? Well, I
haven't seen a car on a freeway

traveling against traffic.

If we can pull this off, this is going
to be very hairy.

We're going this way. The deal is, the
entrance we went onto was an actual

entrance ramp where they just put a do
not enter sign up, and we go.

They have all the stunt drivers coming
off the entrance.

Now, what Friedkin did to make it even
more confusing was everybody else was

going the wrong way.

If you look at that movie, it's like
England. The oncoming traffic is

in the wrong lane, all of it.

So it's really confusing.

Billy likes some radical stuff, and
he'll call for the heaviest stuff you

give him, but he wants it to be safe.

We had designed this swivel car that was
hydraulic that you could pull behind

the camera car.

so when they're going through traffic we
could place the actors believably in

that and make the audience think that
they were there and at a given point

hit a button and the car goes back like
this and it's them there's no faking it

or no screens and all that stuff it's

choreographed but there's a tremendous
margin for error And, you know, you hit

somebody going 25, and they're going 25,
and you hit them head -on. It's like

going 50 miles an hour into a wall. I
mean, that's a hit.

I made the mistake of telling him, hey,
you know, when they're on the freeway,

why don't we jackknife this truck?

And he goes, great, great, put it in,
let's do it.

And then I'm going, how in the world do
we do it?

Up to that time, I don't think there had
ever been anything like that. A truck

jackknifing and squashing cars and the
whole thing.

When they locked up the tractor and the
trailer brakes, we had a cable going

from the back of the truck to this big
four -wheel drive.

We had cars all stuck in between them,
too, so we could lock it up and just

the trailer right around and squish them
as much as we wanted, and bingo.

About a year after the movie opened, I
was at a coffee shop, and I'm sitting

next to a guy who's an undercover cop,
and he says, you're John Pankow. And I

go, yeah. He goes, oh, man.

I can't believe I'm hanging with you. He
goes, I'm an undercover cop and my PD.

And he goes, I have to tell you. It was
so unbelievably true to life, your

complete state of panic.

He said, I have been in it. I have been
shot at. I have been in chases. That is

exactly what you feel. It is just blind
panic.

I had no idea where I was going to go
with the script

while we were filming.

Here's this guy, this Secret Service
agent, who's defying death every time he

goes out.

and who throws caution to the wind.

And it seemed to me that inherently this
agent was setting himself

up to die.

I thought, you know, how am I going to
end this thing and not do some,

you know, phony tacked -on ending?

Freeze it up, pal!

Originally, the screenplay was written
that Vukovic would die in that locker

room scene.

And Billy said, what do you think if we
kill Billy Peterson instead of Johnny

Pankow? I said, wow, that would be
killing your star, wouldn't it?

He said, yeah, but it would sure be a
twist.

And I said, well, I think maybe you
should try to shoot it both ways.

He said, ah, I'll shoot it one way.
We'll kill him.

Having chance go down in this movie
is... I remember thinking that's just

great idea because it just doesn't
happen. It just never happens.

You never see the protagonist go down.

You can't do this to me!

With probably less than ten minutes
left, the star of the film gets killed.

I thought, well, the audience certainly
isn't prepared for this, but then when

it happens, they will get it.

The idea that if you live by the sword,
you're going to die by the sword.

You know, this was a guy who was never
going to live long anyway.

You know, if it hadn't been in the
locker room that night, it would have

a highway or some parachute jump. You
know, he was not long for the world,

chance, any more than Masters was.

The agent and the counterfeiter, these
are guys driving toward suicide.

And so you live by fire, you die by
fire.

And you always have to be open to the
unexpected.

The real chance is dead and his young
partner becomes him.

He isn't really him, but he has now
assimilated all of the characteristics,

attitude, and even the dress of his
mentor.

You're working for me now.

And so, in a final counterfeit moment,

Vukovic becomes Chance.

Let's listen.