All language subtitles for Betrayal.Secrets.and.Lies.S01E01.Fertility.Fraud.1080p.DSNP.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-RAWR_track3_[eng]

Neil was
charismatic and witty.

Just a nice, normal man.

That was the ruse.

There's something very
strange about this baby.

You can keep the baby.

Great for you.

But it ain't mine, darling.

It seriously,
seriously isn't mine.

Tina was in absolute shock.

I've spoken
to probably 200 people

who Neil traumatized.

I've had to pretty much
talk girls off the ledge.

I didn't realize
the gravity of the situation

that I escaped from.

Everything he told me
was a lie.

I've never seen anything
as extreme as this.

I would like him
to suffer slowly, tortuously.

Someone really needs
to stop him.

I'm Andrea Gunning,
and this is Betrayal,

a show about the people
we trust the most

and the deceptions
that change everything.

Today I'm talking
with Tina Maia,

a strong, independent woman
whose casual fling

turned her world upside down.

When she tried to understand
what happened to her,

she ended up forming
a community of women

that were all deceived
by the same man.

Can you talk a little bit about
the scope of what Neil did?

He just hides behind
being this normal guy.

But his lies are so damaging.

They're so eroding,
and it's been going on

for, like, 30-something years.

Wow.

There's a whole load
of people that think,

oh, well, you know,
how did you go for that?

But this is my truth.

This is my story.

I was born in Tehran
before the revolution in 1975,

and things got
a little real over there

when I was quite young.

So we moved back to the UK

because my father
was born there.

I lived in a very nice place.

I had great friends,
good education.

Tina's full of life, carefree.

After I graduated
university,

I was starting my career
in the technology world,

and I just sort of
had to figure out

what this internet was.

Tina ends up
in New York City

with a high-paying job,

and she's there
for about ten years.

She gets married,
has a baby, gets divorced.

And then in 2015, she gets
a great job offer in London,

and she decides to move home.

I was just sort of
starting again,

just me and my son, Leo.

He was six.

She was working
in e-commerce,

and she was very
business-minded.

So it was very early 2016.

I was at one of these
conferences in London.

I was speaking
with a lot of people,

and that's where
I stumbled across Neil Lawman.

He had a marketing firm.

He was cute, quite attractive.

But I really didn't think too
much about that conversation.

He just seemed like
a nice, normal man.

Neil Lawman is from Essex.

It's a tough, working class
area outside of London.

He's a successful businessman,

and he even has
an interesting hobby.

He loves cooking
and appears in YouTube videos.

If you cooked this,
I'd actually

come round for dinner
and let you cook for me.

Would you spoon me
afterwards?

Why not?

Tina had no desire
for a relationship,

but after the conference,

Neil texted her
out of the blue.

He said that he was
going to be in Bromley,

a town close to where I lived,

and did I want to meet up?

I was in a good mood,
and Leo was at a sleepover,

and Neil seems like he might
be good fun for a drink.

Um, OK.

He was charismatic and witty.

He was a fun guy.

I told him a little bit
about my divorce,

and he said that
he was divorced also,

and they lived together
in the States too.

And he said that his ex-wife
had got quite bitter

about the fact that
he couldn't give her children.

He said,
"I had testicular cancer,

and I'm completely infertile."

And he said his ex-wife had
an affair with his friend

and left him for the friend

and gone on to have
children with him.

I felt like he was being,
you know,

quite vulnerable and genuine.

It actually drew me to him.

Tina starts
seeing Neil more often.

She still has no desire
for a relationship,

but she's having fun with him,
and she's enjoying the sex.

That was part
of what it was

and part of what was fun.

She didn't need
to live like a nun.

They're two consenting adults.

Have fun.

Even though he told me
he was infertile,

I was still worried,

because having another child
was not in my plan.

He was like, "No, like,
I have zero sperm count."

But he had sort of
dropped into conversation

about having
a lot of allergies,

and one of those allergies
was latex,

and so he couldn't
use protection.

Over the next few months,

Tina sees Neil sporadically.

We would see each other
once a week or so.

He told me a bit
about his family.

He didn't come from money,
but I didn't care.

He came up in passing,
some guy she'd been seeing.

I never for a minute
thought that he was

going to play a part
in her life.

Tina started noticing
things about Neil

that were off-putting.

I heard him have a phone
conversation with his mother,

and he was being
so awful to her.

And then there was the lying.

He was clearly lying
about his education.

He told me he went to
the London School of Economics.

No, you didn't, because I know
the area quite well.

We were talking about it,

and he didn't seem to know
even where LSE was.

So it was these little things.

Just as Tina's hoping

that this relationship
with Neil fades away,

she starts to experience
this familiar

but concerning brain fog.

I started to be
quite forgetful.

I remember
one particular incident

where I threw
the rubbish away,

and then I couldn't
find my keys.

I'm like, did I not
throw the rubbish out,

but I threw my keys
in the wheelie bin?

Yes, I'd thrown my keys
in the wheelie bin.

And I said, that's weird,
because the only time

I've ever been
that absent-minded

is when I was pregnant
with Leo.

And then my period was late,
so I got a pregnancy test.

Immediately popped up:
pregnant.

I was like, well, no,
I can't be pregnant.

Bought a few more.

That didn't work.

I thought, Neil doesn't know

he can have children.

I thought maybe
it's a medical mistake

or it was truly a miracle.

Tina decides to keep the baby
and reaches out to Neil.

And then he really got
quite venomous.

I cannot produce children.

If you are pregnant,

how you deal with it
is not my problem.

I had intercourse
with somebody

who I knew was infertile,

and I was pregnant.

So I sent him a text saying,

"We should meet up,
and we can have a chat."

He was like,
"I don't see why--

"if you've got
something to tell me,

why you can't tell me here."

I'm like, "OK. I am pregnant.

"It's yours.

"I don't want
anything from you,

but I'm letting you know."

He said, "Nice try.

I had a vasectomy."

And I sent him a picture
of the pregnancy test,

and I said,
"Well, it didn't work."

And he started leaving
voice messages,

which were insane.

You need to get yourself
to a doctor

and have a proper
pregnancy test,

not a piss-on-a-stick one.

But I have zero sperm.

Don't sit there putting things
on me that this could be mine,

because it isn't--
medically impossible.

It wasn't like he was like,

"Oh, go and have an abortion."

He just didn't want
to be blamed.

You can keep the baby.

Great for you.

But it ain't mine, darling.

It seriously,
seriously isn't mine.

He was just rude.

I will have
nothing to do with you,

nothing to do with your child.

I didn't expect him
to be angry with me.

This man, who all his life
thought he couldn't ever

have children,
why isn't he happy?

It got really weird.

So I just said,
"You're more than welcome

to take a DNA test
when the baby's born."

Neil refuses to do
the DNA test,

but Tina didn't need it.

She knew he was the father.

She hadn't been
with anybody else.

She just couldn't understand

why he was adamantly
denying it.

But she moved on without Neil,

and in January of 2017,
Tina welcomed her baby girl,

Josephine,
and she calls her Fifi.

When my daughter was born,

she very quickly went blue.

She had a lung infection.

She was put into an incubator.

She also had
really serious jaundice.

The treatment
for the jaundice,

the light treatment,
wasn't working,

and they said,
"There's only one more level

"we can go up
before we have to give her

"a blood transfusion.

"Then we're gonna need
blood types of the parents,

any medical history."

Tina was afraid
for her baby's life.

She hadn't spoken to Neil
in months,

but she had kept in touch
with one of his friends,

and she reached out to him

to express the urgency
of the situation.

I suddenly get
these long, nasty texts.

How dare I contact his friend?

Even if he did share DNA
with my child,

he would never want

anything to do
with someone as vile as me

and that he would not be
giving any medical history.

Just ugly messages to someone

who had just given birth
to his daughter,

who was potentially about
to have a blood transfusion.

Any person would make that
phone call to help any baby.

Most people would do more
than that to help a kitten.

This [bleep] is not helping.

Why?

Luckily, she didn't need
the blood transfusion.

The next level of lights
did work.

After a week in hospital,
we were able to go home.

Tina and the baby are
settling in nicely at home,

but she can't let go
of how Neil conducted himself,

so she decides
to take action against him.

I thought, I'm gonna set
the Child Maintenance Service

onto you
for the next 18 years.

Not because I want the money,
but because you deserve it.

Because you're not
a nice person.

Tina submitted an application

to the Child
Maintenance Service,

which is the UK's agency
for child support.

Boy, did it open up
a box of worms.

When the report came through,

it said
that it had been accepted,

and that he had been
assessed 5 pounds a week

because he was
a benefits recipient,

which was the first,
like, what?

Like, I know this guy
has a business.

But then the next
really alarming thing

was that that 5 pounds a week

was split between
four children.

There were no names
or details in the CMS report,

so Tina decides to do
her own investigation.

The first thing I did
was go to Facebook,

and I look up
Neil's last name, Lawman.

Straight away,
up comes a profile.

I thought, well,
this must be his ex-wife.

Or his current wife.
Who knows?

Not in America, right here,
not far from where I now live.

And on the profile was
a picture of two young girls.

And they look like Fifi.

I thought,
shall I write to her?

So I did.

I said, "I just had a baby,

and the father
is Neil Lawman."

And quite quickly,
she got back to me.

The first line was just,
"I am so sorry

that you have also
been his victim."

I'm like, oh, [bleep].

Tina reaches out
to a woman on Facebook

that has the same last name
as Neil, which is Lawman.

She wrote back,
"Every word

out of that man's mouth
is a lie."

And he'd gone and left her
with nothing but a mess

and his two children to raise.

And she was
clearly traumatized.

I used to be married to Neil.

I chose to do this interview
anonymously

because I have two girls
with Neil who are now grown up,

and they don't want this
to come back and haunt them.

I would like Neil to suffer
slowly, tortuously,

and I'd like to witness it.

Neil and I got married
on August the 25th, 2002.

We were together until
November 2009 when he left.

Neil's ex-wife,

who doesn't want us
to use her name,

tells Tina that they've never
lived in the United States.

She did not leave Neil
for his friend.

He's definitely
the father of her two kids.

And he has never once
mentioned having cancer.

At this point,
I realized that

he had impregnated me
maliciously.

He knew what he was doing.

NEIL'S EX-WIFE:
I didn't really want

to do this interview,

but I can't bear
the thought of him

having any more children with
some other unsuspecting victim.

This is Neil's story to me,

so it may have some
degree of untruth.

His mother had him
when she was 16.

She told him that
his father was Kevin Jones,

who she was then with.

They sat Neil down on his 18th
birthday and told him that

Kevin Jones was not
his father,

and he had believed all that
time that he was his father.

Six months later, Kevin Jones
died of a heart attack,

and Neil doesn't know
who his father is.

But I can imagine that
finding something out like that

when you're 18 probably
could have contributed to

his dysfunctional personality.

His ex-wife also shared

that Neil used to go by
Neil Jones,

but he changed his last name
to his mother's maiden name,

which is Lawman.

NEIL'S EX-WIFE:
Neil was very charming

and very good at making people
feel comfortable.

He appeared to be ambitious.

He appeared to be
a hard worker,

but he was very deceiving
in all of those things.

Never spent any time
with the kids,

and he was having affairs.

Even though things
were getting really bad,

Neil's ex-wife tried
to stick it out for the kids,

but Neil left.

He left his ex-wife
for another relationship.

NEIL'S EX-WIFE:
So he left in November 2009.

The last time my daughters
saw him was March 2010,

and they have not
seen him since then.

Tina and Neil's ex-wife,
they start a connection.

They start talking on the phone
and texting all the time.

So they decide to meet up
in London.

We instantly got along.

I remember her saying to me,
all these years,

I've felt like the stupidest
woman in the world.

And then I meet you,
and you're, like,

the smartest woman
I've ever met,

and you were duped.

And I felt exactly
the same way about her.

There was a vindication.

I told Tina everything about
my relationship with Neil.

They lived very lavishly.

She thought that he was
doing well in business.

But actually, she found out
that he remortgaged their house

without her knowing.

NEIL'S EX-WIFE:
He also had 40,000 pounds

worth of business debts,

which had a claim
over the house,

and I didn't know
anything about any of it.

So I had to put the house
on the market,

sell it to pay off his debt,
and then start again.

Neil's ex and Tina
chatted for hours,

and then she dropped
a bombshell.

I said to Tina,
"I hate to tell you this,

but Neil had two other sons."

After Neil left,
his ex-wife finds out,

through Child
Maintenance Services,

that he had two sons
that he had had

before they had ever met,

and he had never once
mentioned them to her.

Why would you wanna have kids

if you didn't want
to have kids?

Before calling it a night,
Tina had an idea.

I thought it would be funny
to send him a little memento.

We took a picture
and were giving him the bird,

and we entitled it,
"The other mother."

He didn't take it with humor.

He sent emails to my work.

He wrote very graphic,
awful depictions

of the time that we dated
and made it out

to actually be
something quite lewd.

And he sent it
to the entire company

I worked for.

If he'd have sent
naked pictures of me,

it wouldn't have been
less humiliating.

Tina was not about
to be bullied by Neil,

so she reports the email
to the police,

and they put out a warrant
for his arrest

for malicious communication.

The police told me
he also had

another warrant
out for his arrest

at the same time for fraud.

I learned that he was arrested
11 times

and convicted 5.

But Neil's never served

more than a couple of days
in prison.

He always gets
suspended sentences.

And so Tina was hoping that,

with this malicious
communications charge,

it would finally land him
behind bars.

The police said
they couldn't find him,

so the warrant got
canceled after a year,

and they didn't
even let me know.

NEIL'S EX-WIFE: The man is
still walking the streets,

and he is still capable
of impregnating women

and then walking away
with total abandon.

So Tina had this idea
to set up a Facebook page

to warn people about Neil.

The Neil Lawman
victims support group.

We just hoped that people
would type his name

into Facebook
before dating him

or before going
into business with him,

and it'll give them
a little red flag.

Neil tried to get
the Facebook page taken down,

but Tina fought to keep it up,
and she won.

In the Facebook group,

there are people who claim

they have had business
relationships with him

that went very sour,

women that he has dated
who claim he's turned on them,

family members of people
that he's hurt

who claim he's caused problems
within the families.

There's quite a few landlords
who claim he doesn't pay rent.

And what I wasn't expecting
was other mothers.

How did we all meet?

Where do you start?

Well, it's the first time
I've actually met

Adelle and Claire in person.

We arranged for Tina to meet
with three members

of the Neil Lawman
victims support group.

Right now, there are
more than 150 members.

And of course, Karen.

Yeah.

Karen came to the group
through Neil's ex-wife,

and she says she was
one of his first victims

over 30 years ago.

So obviously, you know,
back 30-odd years ago.

Neil was quite young.

Yeah.
Yeah, he wasn't like,

obviously what he is now,
he was just--

What was he like?

Just normal dude.

He was just a normal guy.

The thing is,
his ruse is normality.

He just pretends
to be a normal bloke,

and that's how he gets you.

When I met Neil, I was 24.

Neil was 20.

He was my neighbor.

In the beginning,
he was very charming.

It was like he was looking
after me all the time.

In this relationship,
there was no mention

of infertility or cancer.

And nine months
into their relationship,

they get engaged,
and Karen was pregnant.

When I told him
I was pregnant, he was happy.

He done the nursery up
with me.

And there was no problem.

And when my son was born,
he was really hands-on.

It's kind of strange how Neil
goes from this loving father

when his son is born in 1994

to never mentioning him once

to anyone he dates
for the next 31 years.

My name is Daniel,
and I'm Neil's son.

I don't really remember much,
to be honest.

I think I try and block
most of it out.

I don't really ask
many questions about him.

It's not gonna change
anything for me,

so the less I know,
the better I feel.

It's in this relationship

where we see a pattern form.

Neil starts off as a great guy,

but then he morphs into
a completely different person,

becomes controlling
and just plain mean.

He didn't like to be
wrong or be told no.

And if I ever challenged him,
Neil would say

that I was really fat
and ugly.

And if you leave me,
you'll be on your own.

You're gonna become
a single mum.

He'd go from, like,
nothing to mad.

He just chipped away at me.

Multiple women on Facebook
allege that Neil was

violent with them,
including Karen.

At the time, I did love him.

But I was nervous of him,

and I didn't wanna make him
angry, 'cause I got a smack.

I kept thinking,
it's gonna be all right.

He didn't mean to do it.

He was really sorry.

He said,
"I'll never do it again.

I'll get help."

A lot of what I'm hearing
today is obviously

the first time I'm hearing
these--these things.

And the more I hear is--
it's just shocking.

It's nothing less
than a scumbag.

In responding
to a protective order

sought against him,

Neil denies
physical abuse allegations,

and he was never convicted
of any violent crimes.

But according to Karen,

Neil promised
that he would change,

but things didn't get better.

So Karen left Neil when
Daniel was just 20 months old.

He was seeing him
on weekend visits,

but there was loads of times

where he'd let him down
and not turn up,

and there was always an excuse.

I was obviously upset.

He's not gonna come back.

He's not gonna suddenly
become my father again.

And getting
to where I want to go to

in my personal journey.

Does Neil have
a relationship with his son?

No.

He did until he was about six.

The last time I seen
him was sitting in McDonald's,

and there was, like,
sea monkeys.

He gave me those
and basically said that

he couldn't see me no more.

And then he just literally
disappeared, went, gone.

That was in 2000,

the same year
Neil met his ex-wife,

who didn't even find out about
Daniel until after he left,

and she read the Child
Maintenance Service report.

There was another son that
was listed on the CMS report.

It was a son that
he had when he was 18,

and he ran off
as soon as he was born.

And Tina tracked down
that mother on Facebook.

She's very, very direct.

She said,
"Just forget about him.

Put it behind you.
Don't think about him."

And she said
the day someone calls her

to let her know
that he's dropped dead

will be the day she pops open
a bottle of champagne.

Through this Facebook group,

another shocking detail
comes to light

28 years after it happened.

Two of his kids were born
eight weeks apart.

Those two boys
were born to mothers

who lived on the same street.

One of the moms was Karen.

He also had
a girlfriend down the road.

And I said, he's 28 in August.

And she said, "I think
you should hear it from me.

There's another child,
and he was 28 in June."

I was like, "Oh. Oh, OK."

I'm just waiting
for who else there is.

I call myself
the one who got away.

How did it feel to you
when you found out

there was another woman who
had a baby at the same time?

To be honest, because I've
been speaking to you guys,

I wasn't actually
really shocked.

Just made Daniel a bit further
down in the pecking order.

She lived on the same street.

Literally the same street.
I didn't know that, obviously.

How did they keep you
separated and not cross paths?

We had to move quickly.

You have to think
to yourself,

how has he managed to do this
to people and keep doing it?

Get away with it.

It just gets more
and more insane.

I kind of struck up
a relationship with Neil

through a Facebook
business group in 2015.

I was going through a divorce,
and I had two young boys.

I wasn't looking
for a relationship

or anything like that,
but there was this

underlying charisma
that kind of came across

once you started
speaking to him.

That's when he reeled you in.

The first time I heard
about the infertility,

we'd been out for drinks.

And the next morning,

I woke to find him in my bed.

We hadn't been intimate
prior to this.

I remember saying to him,
"Oh, my God,

did--did we have sex
last night?"

And he was like,
"Don't you remember?"

And he made it all jokey
and, like, made me feel

a bit stupid
for not remembering.

And I said,
did we use something?

Obviously, I didn't want
to have any more children.

And he said to me, "Listen,
don't worry, don't worry.

I can't have children anyway."

"I've had testicular cancer.

"I had to go through
chemotherapy.

I have no more sperm cells."

I was ashamed.

I needed to close that chapter.

Neil tried to see
Claire again.

Even though she never
became pregnant by him,

she cut him off.

He targets divorced women
with children and with careers.

And you know, he's--
he's definitely followed

a--a pattern.

He goes for successful,
secure women

and then tries
to drag them down.

When I reached out
to his most recent girlfriend,

she was really
under his control.

I'm Rachel.

I met Neil Lawman
through my business

I had at the time.

Neil came across very like
a successful businessman

and caring person.

In the beginning
of the relationship,

he was really good
around my kids,

and my kids really liked him.

Neil did tell Rachel

about his two daughters
with his ex-wife,

but there was no mention
of any other children.

And in the 2 1/2 years
that they are together,

there was no mention
of infertility,

no mention of cancer.

But he had other stories
to tell.

He told me about
all the property that he owns

and how he used to work
for the government

and how he used to be
an ex-pro ice hockey player.

Everything he told me
was a lie.

But he says it in such a way,
it's very believable,

so I never really
questioned it.

Rachel and her kids
moved in with Neil.

At first, they stayed in
his two-bedroom apartment,

but then Rachel bought
her own house,

and Neil came with her.

And according to her,
he slowly started to change.

It was mentally controlling.

It's weird.

He had that thing about you
where he would

pick you up and lift you up.

You'd think, great,
I feel amazing.

But then he'd really
drop you down

and just kind of pick on
the things you don't like.

The way I dress,
the way I look.

And then by the end,
he was distant from everyone.

He didn't really show
any emotion or care

or interest in me or my kids.

Rachel's family is
concerned about Neil.

And Rachel has an aunt
that decides to do

her own investigation

and finds this Facebook page

and shows Rachel.

And Rachel is horrified
by what she sees,

and it motivates her
to leave Neil.

She sends him an email
saying that she's left,

and then he starts bombarding
her with voice messages.

Rachel,
I've just got your email,

and I'm absolutely gutted.

I want to be with you.

I love you.

Please answer my call, Rachel.

Please, please come home.

At the beginning,
it was very desperate.

And then it kind of
turned nasty.

You snuck off,
and I'm walking

around the house, thinking,
well, all this is mine.

All this is mine.

I have got nowhere to go,

and I am not leaving
this house.

I just ignored it.

There's no way
to get me back now.

Not a chance in hell.

Rachel's lucky that
she was able to completely

cut Neil out of her life.

So many women are
still connected to Neil

through their children.

And how many children Neil has
is hard to confirm.

When it comes to kids that
there's either a DNA test

or he's on their birth
certificate, there's five.

Some people have
reached out and said

that they have his child.

I think there's
13 alleged children.

Tina got one of the UK's
largest newspapers,

The Times, to cover the story.

My name is Ben Ellery,
and I am the crime editor

for The Times.

Every person we spoke to
opened another doorway

into this world of Neil Lawman.

Each one took us further

and was slightly more
unbelievable.

We got to a stage where
if we wanted to run the story,

we needed to gather
some hard evidence.

We did a DNA test
between my daughter

and his ex-wife's
two daughters.

Neil's on their
birth certificate.

The markers came through
on their DNA test

more than most
full siblings have.

It's ironclad.

I know Tina is campaigning for

lying to someone
about being infertile

to be made a criminal offense.

There is absolutely justice

that needs to be served
against Neil.

I want him to be convicted
of rape by deception.

Neil had gone to such lengths
with his lies

to impregnate me with a child

he had no intentions
of being part of.

At one point,
there was a police officer

who did take a great interest

and start investigating
Neil's actions.

She said it really did fit
with rape by deception.

Rape by deception
falls outside

the typical definition
of rape.

It's an argument that says
a perpetrator deceives someone

in order to get consent.

I didn't consent to be
with a fertile man.

There's another
high-profile case in the UK

where a man lied
about having a vasectomy

and got a woman pregnant,

and the rape-by-deception
argument was used,

and he was found guilty.

But ultimately, he was able to
have that verdict overturned.

It was overturned
because rape by deception

has to be connected
to the sex act itself,

not the circumstances
around the act.

Now it's precedent.

So Tina's investigation
was dropped.

You can't seem
to pin him down

and prosecute him for anything.

The rape by deception,
malicious communication,

fraud, all been
swept under the rug.

But I'd love to see
change happening.

But what we have
managed to do is,

if not stop him, slow him down.

These women aren't
expecting Neil

to make any admissions
anytime soon.

They're just left wondering
why Neil is the way he is.

Do you think
it's a control thing?

- I do think so.
- Because he goes for women

that are freshly divorced.

So there's that
vulnerability about them

even though they are
strong, independent women.

He finds their vulnerability.
Yeah.

And that's where he gets in at.

And it's from then he kind of
monopolizes everything.

You can't put it down
to trauma or anything for him

because he had
a good upbringing.

He's got a good family.

He's got no excuse whatsoever.

Yeah.

I know because
of the Facebook group

and after The Times article,

people aren't buying
into his fraud so much

and his romantic charms.

So I think his lifestyle has
definitely taken a downturn.

Betrayal's investigative
team went to Neil's home

in Jaywick to get
his side of the story.

I think
all the mothers are worried

about nature and nurture.

But I've met a number
of the children,

and they're all
beautiful souls.

NEIL'S EX-WIFE:
My girls have really developed

into successful, smart adults
in spite of what he did.

My daughter is
the most empathetic,

kind, sweet little girl.

There's no faulty wiring
in her.

That looks like me.

I think it looks
just like you, actually.

We've had some conversations
about Neil,

and what I've let her know
is that she's been lucky

that she's grown up
being given a lot of love

and a lot of affection
and a lot of attention.

So she's able to go
and give it to other people.

And I said, not everyone
is filled with that

when they're growing up.

And unfortunately,
he's one of those people

that just doesn't have it
to give.

She doesn't ever seem
particularly fazed by it.

When Neil's ex-wife told
her daughters about Fifi,

they wanted to meet her,

and now they have
a relationship.

They've been in her life
since she was three months old.

She absolutely adores them.

She's met Daniel,
her half-brother, as well.

And--and I think
she just feels quite fulfilled

by having people
who genuinely care about her,

so why would she care
about someone who doesn't?

I wish for his future that
it's exactly what he deserves.

But let's end on
a positive note and say that,

doesn't he have
amazing taste in women?

Oh, absolutely.

Whether he'll actually
face justice or not,

I hope so, but all I can do
is tell my story

and hope that someone listens

who has the power
to do something about it.