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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,396 --> 00:00:13,366 ♪ 2 00:00:13,501 --> 00:00:16,803 I never understood why he needed to take up flying. 3 00:00:17,973 --> 00:00:19,905 I said to him like, "john, come on. 4 00:00:19,907 --> 00:00:21,975 Look, I know you pretty damn well. 5 00:00:21,977 --> 00:00:23,643 You know, it's like, it's not in your -- 6 00:00:23,778 --> 00:00:25,111 Not your sweet spot." 7 00:00:25,247 --> 00:00:27,913 And he said to me, really interestingly, 8 00:00:28,016 --> 00:00:30,650 "it's the only place where I can go 9 00:00:30,785 --> 00:00:32,752 Where I'm left entirely alone. 10 00:00:32,821 --> 00:00:36,589 ♪ 11 00:00:36,724 --> 00:00:40,193 "I love the silence. I love the solitude." 12 00:00:40,195 --> 00:00:43,262 It was a pure escape for him. 13 00:00:43,397 --> 00:00:44,731 How do you argue with that? 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,601 ♪ 15 00:00:48,804 --> 00:00:51,671 Gillon: One of the things I did not know about john 16 00:00:51,673 --> 00:00:54,674 Was how difficult that last year of his life was. 17 00:00:54,676 --> 00:00:56,142 The magazine is failing. 18 00:00:56,278 --> 00:00:59,212 John is lying around trying to find investors. 19 00:00:59,214 --> 00:01:01,014 His marriage was falling apart. 20 00:01:01,016 --> 00:01:03,883 Reporter: Jfk jr. And new wife headed for splitsville 21 00:01:03,885 --> 00:01:05,218 After just four months. 22 00:01:05,320 --> 00:01:07,953 It seems to kind of be a typical tiff of things 23 00:01:08,056 --> 00:01:09,422 That go on between the two of them. 24 00:01:09,424 --> 00:01:11,491 Gillon: And his best friend and cousin, 25 00:01:11,626 --> 00:01:13,226 Anthony radziwill, was dying. 26 00:01:13,361 --> 00:01:14,727 Man: Anthony, you all set now? 27 00:01:15,963 --> 00:01:20,233 The symbolism of flying, psychologically, is power. 28 00:01:20,235 --> 00:01:23,703 It's control. It's navigation. 29 00:01:23,705 --> 00:01:26,039 A time for john to be just with himself, 30 00:01:26,041 --> 00:01:27,574 His own thoughts, his own feelings. 31 00:01:30,345 --> 00:01:38,751 John will forever love flying because he felt free. 32 00:01:42,857 --> 00:01:50,763 ♪ 33 00:01:50,865 --> 00:01:54,901 ♪ 34 00:01:56,804 --> 00:02:00,273 You don't call women [bleep] you don't call women [bleep] 35 00:02:00,375 --> 00:02:01,941 Your mother ever tell you that? 36 00:02:01,943 --> 00:02:04,677 Reporter: Dumping a bucket of water on a prying photographer 37 00:02:04,812 --> 00:02:07,012 Probably wasn't what "john-john" had in mind 38 00:02:07,014 --> 00:02:08,481 To get some r&r. 39 00:02:08,616 --> 00:02:11,350 So why does john have such a short fuse lately? 40 00:02:11,352 --> 00:02:14,554 Well, there have been reports of possible trouble in paradise. 41 00:02:14,689 --> 00:02:17,022 Ginsberg: You know, it seemed like a storybook marriage. 42 00:02:17,024 --> 00:02:19,825 It's just, you know, beneath the surface, 43 00:02:19,827 --> 00:02:22,027 Every relationship is complicated. 44 00:02:22,130 --> 00:02:23,829 Jfk jr. And bride... 45 00:02:23,831 --> 00:02:24,897 Yeah? 46 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:26,365 Talking bust-up. 47 00:02:26,367 --> 00:02:27,500 No way. 48 00:02:27,635 --> 00:02:28,233 Yeah. 49 00:02:28,235 --> 00:02:29,302 Oh, come on. 50 00:02:29,304 --> 00:02:32,305 South: She loved john. I think john loved her. 51 00:02:32,307 --> 00:02:35,240 They both knew what their life was going to be like. 52 00:02:35,242 --> 00:02:39,378 But to take that on and succeed or fail when you're them 53 00:02:39,513 --> 00:02:42,315 And surrounded by all that magnification, 54 00:02:42,417 --> 00:02:46,452 I think it's an altogether different level of pressure. 55 00:02:49,523 --> 00:02:52,258 Reporter: One reason carolyn is able to travel these days 56 00:02:52,394 --> 00:02:54,127 Is that she recently quit her job 57 00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:58,131 As a public-relations executive at calvin klein. 58 00:02:58,133 --> 00:02:59,932 Radziwill: She had left calvin klein, 59 00:02:59,935 --> 00:03:02,401 So she was at an inflection point in her own life 60 00:03:02,536 --> 00:03:05,070 And trying to decide what she was going to do. 61 00:03:05,206 --> 00:03:07,607 Ginsberg: It was hard for her to work. 62 00:03:07,742 --> 00:03:10,810 In the business that she was in, you're dealing with people 63 00:03:10,945 --> 00:03:14,547 Who your job is to kind of put them at the front and center 64 00:03:14,682 --> 00:03:16,349 Of every single conversation. 65 00:03:16,451 --> 00:03:19,418 And to have an employee working for you 66 00:03:19,420 --> 00:03:23,222 Who overshadows you, no matter who you are, 67 00:03:23,224 --> 00:03:27,226 Is antithetical to the job. 68 00:03:27,361 --> 00:03:30,363 After the first year, I was down at their place, 69 00:03:30,365 --> 00:03:33,232 And she must have given me 10 prada suits and 70 00:03:33,234 --> 00:03:35,168 Coats and everything. 71 00:03:35,170 --> 00:03:36,636 She's like, "I'm never going to wear this." 72 00:03:36,771 --> 00:03:38,237 And I was like, "I'll wear all of this." 73 00:03:38,339 --> 00:03:39,639 [ laughs ] 74 00:03:40,575 --> 00:03:44,310 She had left everything she knew up until that point in fashion 75 00:03:44,446 --> 00:03:45,845 And she was just married 76 00:03:45,847 --> 00:03:49,983 And just not used to that level of scrutiny. 77 00:03:50,118 --> 00:03:52,251 Ginsberg: Carolyn was young and smart and ambitious 78 00:03:52,386 --> 00:03:54,720 And had a big brain and, I think, 79 00:03:54,856 --> 00:03:58,724 Really wanted to do things and to kind of have a big life. 80 00:03:58,860 --> 00:04:00,660 And it's tough when you go from that 81 00:04:00,795 --> 00:04:06,732 To suddenly being overwhelmingly known for one thing. 82 00:04:06,868 --> 00:04:10,003 Radziwill: It just felt sometimes unbearable. 83 00:04:10,138 --> 00:04:11,737 I know it sounds weird, 84 00:04:11,739 --> 00:04:15,474 Because it's like it seems glamorous, maybe. 85 00:04:15,476 --> 00:04:18,611 But it's not. It's really intrusive. 86 00:04:18,613 --> 00:04:23,949 This was a woman who had great confidence and self-esteem 87 00:04:23,951 --> 00:04:28,353 And very grounded, and even I could see it wears on you. 88 00:04:28,355 --> 00:04:30,556 You start feeling a little bit insecure 89 00:04:30,692 --> 00:04:32,825 And you always have to look a certain way. 90 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,927 It was very intense. 91 00:04:36,363 --> 00:04:37,830 Brown: She was very neurotic. 92 00:04:37,965 --> 00:04:40,700 And as we've seen, you know, with meghan and harry, 93 00:04:40,835 --> 00:04:42,501 There was quite a lot about carolyn bessette 94 00:04:42,636 --> 00:04:44,637 That was a bit meghan-ish, 95 00:04:44,772 --> 00:04:48,507 That she had sort of wanted in for all of these reasons 96 00:04:48,642 --> 00:04:50,509 Of glamour and elegance. 97 00:04:50,511 --> 00:04:53,246 But that came with so much pressure 98 00:04:53,248 --> 00:04:56,582 In terms of placating the monster of the media, 99 00:04:56,718 --> 00:05:00,019 That she sort of fell apart, really. 100 00:05:00,988 --> 00:05:02,655 In the later part of their lives, 101 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:05,458 John and carolyn really begin to argue over this, 102 00:05:05,460 --> 00:05:08,193 Because, yes, the celebrity is necessary, 103 00:05:08,296 --> 00:05:11,864 It is valuable, but not at the risk of your life. 104 00:05:11,999 --> 00:05:14,467 But last week, lee radziwill just made a statement 105 00:05:14,469 --> 00:05:16,201 That the family didn't really like her. 106 00:05:16,304 --> 00:05:17,937 And then, around two weeks ago, 107 00:05:17,939 --> 00:05:21,140 There were reports that carolyn was in some paris bar, 108 00:05:21,142 --> 00:05:23,142 Necking with a guy. 109 00:05:23,144 --> 00:05:24,810 And I think that creates a kind of tension 110 00:05:24,946 --> 00:05:28,080 That is unimaginable for most people 111 00:05:28,182 --> 00:05:31,684 As they think about these kinds of situations. 112 00:05:31,686 --> 00:05:33,686 Radziwill: John couldn't understand, 113 00:05:33,688 --> 00:05:36,555 Being a very privileged male, 114 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:41,827 He had no sense of what the press would say about her. 115 00:05:41,963 --> 00:05:44,096 I remember we came up with a plan 116 00:05:44,099 --> 00:05:46,832 That every day, she would wear, like, the same levi jeans 117 00:05:46,968 --> 00:05:49,368 With boots and a white button-down. 118 00:05:49,503 --> 00:05:51,370 There's a lot of pictures of her with, like, 119 00:05:51,372 --> 00:05:53,306 White button-down shirts and blue jeans. 120 00:05:53,308 --> 00:05:56,441 And then she thought, because if she wears the same thing, 121 00:05:56,443 --> 00:05:58,444 They would just tire of taking pictures. 122 00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:01,380 But they never tired. Not once. 123 00:06:01,382 --> 00:06:03,683 You know, she was a commodity. 124 00:06:06,721 --> 00:06:12,525 This is john kennedy here, speaking from nbc news. 125 00:06:12,527 --> 00:06:16,462 Oh, boy. Can you help me? 126 00:06:16,598 --> 00:06:18,131 Anthony! 127 00:06:18,266 --> 00:06:22,001 Ginsberg: All of this was against the backdrop 128 00:06:22,136 --> 00:06:24,670 Of anthony having cancer. 129 00:06:24,806 --> 00:06:28,140 And so while this was going on, 130 00:06:28,143 --> 00:06:31,410 It was interspersed with a lot of time 131 00:06:31,412 --> 00:06:34,680 Spent at columbia presbyterian hospital 132 00:06:34,816 --> 00:06:36,682 While anthony got chemo. 133 00:06:36,818 --> 00:06:39,952 And it was a very, very tough period. 134 00:06:40,755 --> 00:06:42,155 Radziwill: I mean, it was heartbreaking. 135 00:06:42,290 --> 00:06:43,556 They were really close. 136 00:06:43,558 --> 00:06:46,291 They were best friends and cousins. 137 00:06:46,293 --> 00:06:48,627 John couldn't believe it was going to happen. 138 00:06:48,762 --> 00:06:50,429 And I think part of it was like 139 00:06:50,564 --> 00:06:53,432 He had experienced a lot of tragedy, 140 00:06:53,567 --> 00:06:55,300 And it becomes your memories. 141 00:06:55,436 --> 00:06:59,572 And anthony was so handsome, so young, and strong, 142 00:06:59,574 --> 00:07:04,710 And he just refused to believe that anthony was going to die. 143 00:07:04,846 --> 00:07:06,311 It was so difficult for him, 144 00:07:06,414 --> 00:07:11,416 And this was a physical embodiment of another death. 145 00:07:11,453 --> 00:07:14,954 ♪ 146 00:07:16,257 --> 00:07:17,923 ♪ 147 00:07:18,059 --> 00:07:20,125 I came at this as somewhat of a novice, 148 00:07:20,261 --> 00:07:21,594 So I didn't really -- I hadn't -- we had -- 149 00:07:21,596 --> 00:07:22,928 My partner and I, michael berman, 150 00:07:23,064 --> 00:07:25,264 We had an idea, and -- 151 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:28,333 But we didn't know quite how it would show in the real world. 152 00:07:28,335 --> 00:07:31,870 So, yeah -- and I mean, I still, you know, every month, it's -- 153 00:07:31,872 --> 00:07:35,207 I haven't really gotten rid of the jitters. 154 00:07:35,342 --> 00:07:37,142 Radziwill: He was right at a crossroads 155 00:07:37,144 --> 00:07:39,344 Of saving his magazine. 156 00:07:39,346 --> 00:07:40,813 I think because it was new 157 00:07:40,815 --> 00:07:42,415 And like anything that's new and different, 158 00:07:42,550 --> 00:07:44,283 People are a little skeptical. 159 00:07:44,418 --> 00:07:48,087 And it's a start-up business, right? 160 00:07:48,222 --> 00:07:50,289 I think people understand what that is more now. 161 00:07:50,291 --> 00:07:51,890 There's, like -- he was an entrepreneur, 162 00:07:52,025 --> 00:07:53,759 And it was a startup business. 163 00:07:53,895 --> 00:07:55,694 And I think it was at an inflection point 164 00:07:55,696 --> 00:07:59,432 Where people weren't quite sure, "is this going to be something?" 165 00:07:59,567 --> 00:08:01,033 He definitely had the right concept, 166 00:08:01,035 --> 00:08:03,836 That politics and entertainment were fusing, 167 00:08:03,938 --> 00:08:07,172 But he was also editing in the era of bill clinton, 168 00:08:07,308 --> 00:08:10,309 And the biggest story around bill clinton was monica. 169 00:08:10,444 --> 00:08:13,578 I did not have sexual relations 170 00:08:13,580 --> 00:08:16,048 With that woman, miss lewinsky. 171 00:08:16,050 --> 00:08:17,782 Thank you. 172 00:08:17,784 --> 00:08:19,051 And he didn't want to go there, 173 00:08:19,053 --> 00:08:21,586 Because he was too much of a gentleman. 174 00:08:22,256 --> 00:08:24,056 So, the shock here at the white house this morning, 175 00:08:24,058 --> 00:08:26,258 The independent-counsel investigation now expanded 176 00:08:26,393 --> 00:08:28,727 To include allegations of sexual misconduct 177 00:08:28,729 --> 00:08:30,796 By the president in the white house. 178 00:08:30,932 --> 00:08:35,868 She is somebody who the media treated terribly. 179 00:08:35,870 --> 00:08:37,269 Did you see monica's new hairdo, 180 00:08:37,404 --> 00:08:38,937 All slicked down with that hair gel? 181 00:08:39,072 --> 00:08:41,006 At least I think it was hair gel. 182 00:08:41,142 --> 00:08:43,408 Larry king: Why is this funny? 183 00:08:43,410 --> 00:08:44,677 Jon stewart: Why is it funny? 184 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,612 Larry: Why is it funny? I mean, it's tragic. 185 00:08:47,715 --> 00:08:48,914 Jon: No one gets hurt. 186 00:08:50,851 --> 00:08:53,686 Soren: Her whole life was turned upside down. 187 00:08:54,088 --> 00:08:56,155 And who was the person in a position of power 188 00:08:56,290 --> 00:08:57,756 In that relationship? 189 00:08:57,858 --> 00:08:59,892 It was not her. 190 00:09:01,996 --> 00:09:03,762 I wonder if we aren't going too far in terms 191 00:09:03,864 --> 00:09:05,830 Of excavating the sexual history of monica lewinsky. 192 00:09:05,832 --> 00:09:07,766 We've seen stories quoting ex-boyfriends 193 00:09:07,868 --> 00:09:08,968 About what she did as a teenager. 194 00:09:09,103 --> 00:09:10,969 ♪ 195 00:09:10,971 --> 00:09:13,772 John kennedy sr. Had all kinds of 196 00:09:13,874 --> 00:09:16,575 Lurid affairs in and out of his marriage, 197 00:09:16,577 --> 00:09:19,444 But none had been in the white house, 198 00:09:19,446 --> 00:09:21,914 While president, covered with such, 199 00:09:22,049 --> 00:09:26,318 At that moment, seemingly ghastly graphic specificity 200 00:09:26,453 --> 00:09:29,654 As what had happened with monica lewinsky. 201 00:09:29,757 --> 00:09:33,125 Ginsberg: You know, having to grow up with all the suggestions 202 00:09:33,260 --> 00:09:36,461 About his father and fidelity, 203 00:09:36,463 --> 00:09:38,663 I don't think john wanted to re-examine it. 204 00:09:38,665 --> 00:09:44,269 And I think that infused how he approached covering clinton 205 00:09:44,271 --> 00:09:46,071 And a story that otherwise would have been 206 00:09:46,207 --> 00:09:47,806 Kind of tailor-made for george. 207 00:09:47,941 --> 00:09:51,410 Carter: It was simple. The country was obsessed with it. 208 00:09:51,412 --> 00:09:54,146 And, as we discovered, it had legs. 209 00:09:54,281 --> 00:09:57,015 It had, you know, 20 years of legs to it. 210 00:09:57,017 --> 00:09:59,552 But that's the part of the issue is, if your named kennedy, 211 00:09:59,687 --> 00:10:03,288 You're not going to go after the sitting democratic president. 212 00:10:03,290 --> 00:10:04,823 Can you talk to us further about the mentality 213 00:10:04,958 --> 00:10:06,625 At the white house tonight? 214 00:10:06,627 --> 00:10:08,693 They're very worried about all of this, 215 00:10:08,796 --> 00:10:10,495 The accumulation of events. 216 00:10:10,497 --> 00:10:11,964 They're worried that the charge, 217 00:10:12,066 --> 00:10:14,633 Obstruction of justice, a cover-up. 218 00:10:14,635 --> 00:10:16,902 That should have been, like, the story 219 00:10:17,038 --> 00:10:19,704 For george magazine in 1998. 220 00:10:19,706 --> 00:10:20,973 It just should have been. 221 00:10:22,376 --> 00:10:25,177 But, god almighty, what a mistake. 222 00:10:25,179 --> 00:10:27,646 I mean, was it like, "oh, no, that's too undignified"? 223 00:10:27,648 --> 00:10:30,515 Well, dude, you started this magazine 224 00:10:30,517 --> 00:10:35,720 That is about the undignified nature of stars and starlets 225 00:10:35,722 --> 00:10:37,656 And celebrity 226 00:10:37,658 --> 00:10:40,793 That have nothing to do with the substance of politics. 227 00:10:40,795 --> 00:10:42,561 Why is this the line you draw now? 228 00:10:43,731 --> 00:10:46,064 "are politicians celebrities? 229 00:10:46,199 --> 00:10:48,200 These days, politicians, like celebrities, 230 00:10:48,335 --> 00:10:51,336 Are as newsworthy for their private conduct 231 00:10:51,338 --> 00:10:54,072 As they are for their public duties." 232 00:10:54,207 --> 00:10:56,074 "so why do we hold them to a higher standard 233 00:10:56,076 --> 00:10:59,478 Than the other glitterati who are famous for being famous? 234 00:10:59,613 --> 00:11:02,347 And don't tell me it's because politicians are role models. 235 00:11:02,483 --> 00:11:05,284 That solemn fraud is obsolete." 236 00:11:05,419 --> 00:11:09,488 What mother wants her child to grow up and become a politician? 237 00:11:09,623 --> 00:11:13,758 It might still be an honorable profession, but it is combat." 238 00:11:14,561 --> 00:11:19,097 You know, when you are in this family of political celebrities, 239 00:11:19,232 --> 00:11:22,767 It seems to me you're in a pickle from the get-go, 240 00:11:22,769 --> 00:11:26,638 And you better have figured out what you think about it 241 00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:28,640 And what you're going to say about it. 242 00:11:28,742 --> 00:11:30,843 And if that had been a republican president 243 00:11:30,845 --> 00:11:32,711 With a 22-year-old intern, 244 00:11:32,713 --> 00:11:34,379 I'm sure they would have covered it like crazy. 245 00:11:34,381 --> 00:11:36,781 But that's where, like, not having worked in a magazine 246 00:11:36,884 --> 00:11:39,518 Might have hindered him. 247 00:11:39,653 --> 00:11:43,588 He should have had, like, a great number two who would say, 248 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:46,525 "no, this is not the best idea" or "this is a good idea," 249 00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:49,862 Because he was probably just too much in charge, 250 00:11:49,864 --> 00:11:52,130 And you want a lot of people around you. 251 00:11:52,265 --> 00:11:53,932 You want people around you 252 00:11:54,067 --> 00:11:55,400 Who fold their arms and come into your office 253 00:11:55,402 --> 00:11:57,001 And say, "this is a terrible idea." 254 00:11:57,003 --> 00:11:58,737 And then you realize, "okay, it's a bad idea." 255 00:11:58,739 --> 00:12:00,005 Imus: Well, did you notice any -- 256 00:12:00,141 --> 00:12:01,740 Has it had any impact on your magazine? 257 00:12:01,742 --> 00:12:03,208 Kennedy: I'm not sure if the majority 258 00:12:03,344 --> 00:12:05,009 Of the people in the country -- 259 00:12:05,011 --> 00:12:09,014 I mean, certainly, there are those who care, 260 00:12:09,150 --> 00:12:12,417 And I'm not saying it's not something not to care about, 261 00:12:12,553 --> 00:12:15,153 But, clearly, if you're in the journalism business, 262 00:12:15,288 --> 00:12:17,022 It is a much more riveting story 263 00:12:17,158 --> 00:12:19,491 Than if you have kids in college 264 00:12:19,626 --> 00:12:21,226 And you're trying to make payments on your house. 265 00:12:21,362 --> 00:12:22,695 Ginsberg: We didn't cover it in any kind of 266 00:12:22,830 --> 00:12:25,163 Provocative, colorful way. 267 00:12:25,165 --> 00:12:26,831 You know, I think people started -- 268 00:12:26,833 --> 00:12:28,833 They were expecting to see it, they didn't see it, 269 00:12:28,835 --> 00:12:30,435 And I think it was a disappointment. 270 00:12:31,038 --> 00:12:31,904 Leno: Thanks so much for coming. 271 00:12:32,039 --> 00:12:32,704 Kennedy: Thank you so much. 272 00:12:32,974 --> 00:12:34,439 Leno: A pleasure to meet you, finally. 273 00:12:34,441 --> 00:12:36,108 Brown: I think it was a big problem for him. 274 00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:40,312 Clinton began the absolute sort of cultural change in which, 275 00:12:40,447 --> 00:12:44,449 You know, sex and scandal and the melding of those things 276 00:12:44,585 --> 00:12:47,452 Became so much a part of the reporting that we were doing. 277 00:12:47,588 --> 00:12:52,056 That didn't really fit with the jfk jr., you know, 278 00:12:52,058 --> 00:12:53,325 Ethos, in that sense. 279 00:12:53,327 --> 00:12:55,361 He was too much of a kennedy. 280 00:12:56,663 --> 00:12:59,531 So, in the end, it wasn't going to work for him, 281 00:12:59,666 --> 00:13:01,299 I think, as a magazine editor. 282 00:13:01,369 --> 00:13:05,537 ♪ 283 00:13:06,740 --> 00:13:11,575 ♪ 284 00:13:11,778 --> 00:13:15,446 I mean, sometimes, I look back, especially that summer, 285 00:13:15,582 --> 00:13:17,348 And it feels like a film almost. 286 00:13:19,852 --> 00:13:23,121 It feels like a story that happened to somebody else 287 00:13:23,222 --> 00:13:27,191 Or, like, some weird fever dream that I'm going to wake up 288 00:13:27,193 --> 00:13:32,330 And be like, "that was intense," but I never did. 289 00:13:32,332 --> 00:13:35,466 One of the great lucky things about being in my family, 290 00:13:35,468 --> 00:13:37,401 Which I'm -- which has stayed. 291 00:13:37,403 --> 00:13:38,469 That gathering concept, right? 292 00:13:38,605 --> 00:13:39,203 Yeah. Yeah. 293 00:13:39,338 --> 00:13:40,338 It is familial, right? 294 00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:42,072 Mm-hmm. Yes, it is. 295 00:13:42,074 --> 00:13:43,341 It's a touching family too, right? 296 00:13:43,476 --> 00:13:44,408 Very much so. 297 00:13:44,578 --> 00:13:49,347 The family and the cousins and making a kind of a 298 00:13:49,349 --> 00:13:51,816 Sense of community, especially in the summertime. 299 00:13:52,385 --> 00:13:54,418 Radziwill: Anthony had had cancer for over five years 300 00:13:54,553 --> 00:13:55,886 At that point. 301 00:13:56,022 --> 00:13:58,289 He had started chemotherapy and radiation 302 00:13:58,425 --> 00:14:00,624 And all these experimental drugs. 303 00:14:00,626 --> 00:14:03,027 But by the summer of '99, it was very clear 304 00:14:03,162 --> 00:14:05,363 That he was probably not going to make it through the summer. 305 00:14:08,167 --> 00:14:10,568 And that's why we moved up to the vineyard. 306 00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:13,037 John was, like, resigning to the fact 307 00:14:13,172 --> 00:14:16,040 That anthony was likely not going to make it back 308 00:14:16,175 --> 00:14:18,276 To the city at the end of the summer. 309 00:14:20,312 --> 00:14:25,083 And then john broke his foot, and that was just a disaster. 310 00:14:26,185 --> 00:14:27,785 It was memorial day weekend, I think. 311 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,321 He would get on this contraption. 312 00:14:30,423 --> 00:14:31,922 Man: It doesn't take off real easy, 313 00:14:31,924 --> 00:14:33,924 Unless you get too much gas in it. 314 00:14:33,926 --> 00:14:36,126 Radziwill: I used to call it a flying lawnmower. 315 00:14:36,128 --> 00:14:37,461 It looked like a lawnmower. 316 00:14:37,596 --> 00:14:39,197 Man: Good. Good job. 317 00:14:39,332 --> 00:14:40,731 But I'll tell you, 318 00:14:40,867 --> 00:14:43,234 The damn thing could fly 10,000 feet in the air. 319 00:14:44,070 --> 00:14:45,536 Man: That's good. 320 00:14:45,672 --> 00:14:46,937 Forget how powerful that motor is. 321 00:14:46,939 --> 00:14:49,139 It wants to go up. 322 00:14:49,141 --> 00:14:51,209 I remember him trying one weekend to get me to go on it, 323 00:14:51,344 --> 00:14:53,343 And I'm like, "fuck that." 324 00:14:53,345 --> 00:14:57,282 Like, "I'm not going on that thing." 325 00:15:00,453 --> 00:15:05,623 And he landed awkwardly and he just broke his ankle. 326 00:15:05,725 --> 00:15:07,292 It was, like, a fluke. 327 00:15:08,961 --> 00:15:11,596 Like, a stupid, stupid thing. 328 00:15:14,434 --> 00:15:16,567 I feel like that was, like, a turning point. 329 00:15:16,569 --> 00:15:18,702 Like, I remember carolyn calling from the hospital, 330 00:15:18,704 --> 00:15:21,239 And she was crying because she knew the implications 331 00:15:21,374 --> 00:15:24,708 Of john having to be in a cast for two months. 332 00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:26,644 Yeah, I'm in a cast. I broke my ankle. 333 00:15:26,646 --> 00:15:29,580 I was playing sports first weekend of the summer, 334 00:15:29,582 --> 00:15:31,916 And I'm laid up for a couple weeks. 335 00:15:32,051 --> 00:15:33,784 John getting hurt was a big deal, 336 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,587 Because john was such an active guy. 337 00:15:36,589 --> 00:15:38,923 He loved to play. 338 00:15:39,058 --> 00:15:41,725 ♪ 339 00:15:41,727 --> 00:15:43,127 I didn't have a hint 340 00:15:43,262 --> 00:15:44,729 That any of the other stuff was going on. 341 00:15:46,732 --> 00:15:47,998 John was one of these guys who -- 342 00:15:48,134 --> 00:15:50,134 Just always optimistic, always hopeful. 343 00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:55,405 Despite all this enormous pain that was going on in his life 344 00:15:55,407 --> 00:15:58,008 And the pressure that was on him, 345 00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:00,010 You know, he never revealed it, I never saw it. 346 00:16:00,146 --> 00:16:01,211 Larry king: Are there ever days you say, 347 00:16:01,213 --> 00:16:02,680 "I wish my name were david?" 348 00:16:02,815 --> 00:16:06,016 No. I'm pretty happy with what it is. 349 00:16:06,018 --> 00:16:09,887 I mean, if you're asking if it's hard being me -- 350 00:16:09,889 --> 00:16:11,689 Well, it's brought you a unique life. 351 00:16:11,691 --> 00:16:12,890 Yeah, absolutely. 352 00:16:13,025 --> 00:16:16,694 And great opportunities and some challenges. 353 00:16:16,696 --> 00:16:19,830 But all in all, I feel very fortunate. 354 00:16:19,966 --> 00:16:22,266 So it's not so -- it's not so bad. 355 00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:27,705 I only saw john cry one time, and it was that summer. 356 00:16:27,807 --> 00:16:29,774 Like, really cry. 357 00:16:29,909 --> 00:16:32,643 We were at the beach, and anthony took his shirt off. 358 00:16:32,645 --> 00:16:36,580 And you could see his chest was all marked up with scars 359 00:16:36,582 --> 00:16:38,048 From so many operations. 360 00:16:38,050 --> 00:16:40,318 And he was pretty thin at that point. 361 00:16:40,453 --> 00:16:42,786 And I don't know. I think the visual, for john, 362 00:16:42,788 --> 00:16:45,790 He just, like, fell to the sand 363 00:16:45,925 --> 00:16:50,394 And just put his head in his hands and was really crying. 364 00:16:50,396 --> 00:16:52,596 And thank god anthony was a little ahead of him 365 00:16:52,598 --> 00:16:56,466 And the sound of the waves were covering up the cries, 366 00:16:56,468 --> 00:16:58,803 But I could see what was happening. 367 00:17:02,842 --> 00:17:05,609 Anthony -- he was really the brother he never had. 368 00:17:05,711 --> 00:17:10,481 And I think carole was a real part of john and carolyn's life 369 00:17:10,617 --> 00:17:13,083 Because they were preparing to basically take on 370 00:17:13,085 --> 00:17:17,221 Carole as some extension of their life. 371 00:17:17,223 --> 00:17:20,024 That whole month of June was really brutal for him. 372 00:17:20,159 --> 00:17:23,494 John was also trying to save his magazine, 373 00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:25,363 And carolyn was trying to help, 374 00:17:25,365 --> 00:17:27,231 But then, like, being frustrated at him 375 00:17:27,366 --> 00:17:29,499 Because he wasn't acknowledging, at that point 376 00:17:29,501 --> 00:17:32,636 In the beginning of the summer, that anthony was dying 377 00:17:32,638 --> 00:17:37,108 And that he needed to focus and spend time with anthony. 378 00:17:39,311 --> 00:17:41,045 He was really focused on the magazine, 379 00:17:41,180 --> 00:17:42,913 And she was really focused on the magazine. 380 00:17:43,049 --> 00:17:45,416 I feel like it was just as much her baby as it was his. 381 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,519 Ginsberg: John wanted her to be a part of the magazine, 382 00:17:49,521 --> 00:17:50,988 Liked her being around. 383 00:17:51,123 --> 00:17:54,258 So it just naturally happened. 384 00:17:54,393 --> 00:17:55,993 She took a particular interest in the look 385 00:17:56,128 --> 00:17:57,661 And the feel of the magazine, 386 00:17:57,663 --> 00:17:59,529 Spent a lot of time in the art department. 387 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,133 South: George was meant to be this collision 388 00:18:03,269 --> 00:18:06,404 Of politics and pop culture. 389 00:18:06,539 --> 00:18:11,209 I think carolyn knew it in a way that was very immediate 390 00:18:11,344 --> 00:18:13,611 And loved that part of it. 391 00:18:13,613 --> 00:18:15,880 And I'm sure it was a source of irritation for people 392 00:18:16,015 --> 00:18:19,750 That worked at george as it is in any situation, 393 00:18:19,886 --> 00:18:22,420 When the kind of boss' wife has a strong point of view 394 00:18:22,422 --> 00:18:23,754 About things. 395 00:18:23,756 --> 00:18:27,091 And she had a strong point of view about things. 396 00:18:27,226 --> 00:18:31,229 She was good, I mean, but sometimes a little 397 00:18:31,364 --> 00:18:34,164 Brutal in her assessments. 398 00:18:34,901 --> 00:18:36,767 Depaulo: Carolyn was in and out of the office, 399 00:18:36,903 --> 00:18:40,838 But I knew her more from parties like the correspondents' dinner. 400 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,241 He'd say, "I'm sitting you next to my wife, 401 00:18:43,376 --> 00:18:45,175 Because she'll have fun with you." 402 00:18:45,177 --> 00:18:47,778 And we did have fun. We'd, like, go out and sneak cigarettes. 403 00:18:47,914 --> 00:18:49,547 She was great. 404 00:18:50,917 --> 00:18:53,317 I mean, look, was she a total 405 00:18:53,319 --> 00:18:54,718 Pain in the ass to certain people in there? 406 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:55,853 Yeah. 407 00:18:55,988 --> 00:18:58,689 It was a problem for michael. 408 00:19:01,594 --> 00:19:04,061 Welcome. My name is michael berman, 409 00:19:04,196 --> 00:19:07,531 And I am the co-founder and executive publisher of george. 410 00:19:07,533 --> 00:19:10,334 Gillon: The two of them together created george. 411 00:19:10,469 --> 00:19:13,671 When john and I first began to talk about the magazine, 412 00:19:13,673 --> 00:19:15,606 The experts, early on, advised us, 413 00:19:15,708 --> 00:19:18,275 "never go into business with a friend." 414 00:19:18,278 --> 00:19:19,810 There would have been no george magazine 415 00:19:19,812 --> 00:19:21,345 Without michael berman, 416 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,281 And there would have been no george magazine 417 00:19:23,416 --> 00:19:25,383 Without john kennedy. 418 00:19:26,953 --> 00:19:29,086 They hadn't worked a lot of things out, 419 00:19:29,088 --> 00:19:30,954 And there are very different expectations 420 00:19:30,956 --> 00:19:32,622 About how you do that. 421 00:19:32,624 --> 00:19:35,826 It's a constant source of tension in the magazine, 422 00:19:35,962 --> 00:19:37,828 And michael berman 423 00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:42,232 Wanted john as the editor to commission stories 424 00:19:42,234 --> 00:19:46,504 And to write stories that would reflect the uniqueness 425 00:19:46,639 --> 00:19:48,372 Of his life growing up. 426 00:19:48,374 --> 00:19:51,842 And john just had no interest in doing that. 427 00:19:51,978 --> 00:19:54,312 But there was always this pressure on john 428 00:19:54,447 --> 00:19:58,849 From every direction for him to make it more about himself. 429 00:19:58,985 --> 00:20:01,919 David pecker, the c.E.O. Of hachette, 430 00:20:02,054 --> 00:20:04,254 Would put john on the cover every day with his shirt off. 431 00:20:04,256 --> 00:20:05,789 That's the magazine they wanted. 432 00:20:05,924 --> 00:20:09,793 Say you have a fight, michael, over the next cover. 433 00:20:09,795 --> 00:20:12,262 Let's say? I think we've had about four today. 434 00:20:12,398 --> 00:20:15,665 Advertisers then re-negotiated their fees. 435 00:20:15,667 --> 00:20:17,201 George was not getting the amount of money 436 00:20:17,336 --> 00:20:18,736 It was getting before. 437 00:20:18,738 --> 00:20:20,671 Michael was hearing this from the advertisers -- 438 00:20:20,773 --> 00:20:22,472 "it's not distinctive enough. 439 00:20:22,474 --> 00:20:24,542 We wanted a magazine that had more john in it." 440 00:20:24,677 --> 00:20:26,210 And so michael was getting that pressure. 441 00:20:26,345 --> 00:20:29,413 And then their own personal dynamic changed, 442 00:20:29,415 --> 00:20:32,550 Especially when carolyn comes into the office 443 00:20:32,552 --> 00:20:35,886 And starts getting involved in some editorial issues. 444 00:20:36,022 --> 00:20:37,688 You know, a partnership is really difficult, 445 00:20:37,824 --> 00:20:39,823 Especially when you know the other person 446 00:20:39,925 --> 00:20:41,425 And, you know, you had a friendship 447 00:20:41,427 --> 00:20:43,361 Before the partnership. 448 00:20:43,496 --> 00:20:46,364 Carmody: John was afraid of being seen as a business shill. 449 00:20:46,499 --> 00:20:50,234 He wasn't used to having to ask people for favors. 450 00:20:50,369 --> 00:20:52,570 He was used to people asking him for favors. 451 00:20:52,705 --> 00:20:53,837 ...Wasn't getting the readers. 452 00:20:53,939 --> 00:20:55,573 It wasn't getting the advertisers. 453 00:20:55,674 --> 00:20:58,108 South: Just by nature of that business, 454 00:20:58,244 --> 00:21:01,044 Everybody is chasing newness. 455 00:21:01,046 --> 00:21:03,047 Advertisers were horrible then, 456 00:21:03,182 --> 00:21:05,783 And carolyn knew that john 457 00:21:05,785 --> 00:21:08,986 Could be a little princely about things. 458 00:21:09,088 --> 00:21:14,392 And I think carolyn certainly knew how the system worked. 459 00:21:14,527 --> 00:21:17,795 I'm sure carolyn was a taskmaster 460 00:21:17,797 --> 00:21:18,996 About that stuff with john. 461 00:21:19,131 --> 00:21:22,266 If people call 316-8735, 462 00:21:22,401 --> 00:21:24,602 They'll be able to get a subscription to george. 463 00:21:24,703 --> 00:21:27,071 King: An 800 number -- did you think it would come to this? 464 00:21:27,206 --> 00:21:29,907 Kennedy: Spoken like a true publisher. 465 00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:35,479 Gillon: Michael berman believes that george has no identity, 466 00:21:35,481 --> 00:21:37,547 No definition separate from other magazines. 467 00:21:37,549 --> 00:21:39,617 And he's coming to editorial meetings 468 00:21:39,619 --> 00:21:41,151 And trashing the writers. 469 00:21:41,287 --> 00:21:42,886 And it got to the point where john was actually 470 00:21:42,988 --> 00:21:45,489 Holding editorial meetings at a hotel across the street. 471 00:21:45,624 --> 00:21:46,890 You're having fights. How is it -- 472 00:21:46,892 --> 00:21:47,691 Absolutely. 473 00:21:47,693 --> 00:21:49,093 It makes for a great partnership. 474 00:21:49,228 --> 00:21:50,227 Who wins? 475 00:21:50,362 --> 00:21:51,228 It depends. 476 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:53,096 You know, some -- 477 00:21:53,098 --> 00:21:54,765 The better party usually wins, 478 00:21:54,901 --> 00:21:57,234 And that's the great thing about a 50/50 partnership. 479 00:21:57,236 --> 00:21:59,303 Gillon: You know, in most magazines, you have a publisher 480 00:21:59,438 --> 00:22:00,904 And then you have an editor. 481 00:22:01,006 --> 00:22:04,574 And because john and michael were both partners, 482 00:22:04,576 --> 00:22:07,711 Michael wanted to be involved in every decision that john made, 483 00:22:07,713 --> 00:22:09,980 Including editorial. 484 00:22:09,982 --> 00:22:13,917 His battles with michael berman culminated in a shoving match 485 00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:16,053 Where john ripped michael's shirt. 486 00:22:16,155 --> 00:22:19,523 Michael chased john across the floor of george magazine. 487 00:22:19,525 --> 00:22:20,991 And when john went into his office, 488 00:22:21,127 --> 00:22:23,060 Michael was trying to pick the lock to get in. 489 00:22:23,062 --> 00:22:24,862 It was really an explosive relationship. 490 00:22:24,864 --> 00:22:26,130 Imus: How are things at the magazine? 491 00:22:26,265 --> 00:22:27,264 We had a big power struggle there 492 00:22:27,266 --> 00:22:28,598 Last time we talked, right? 493 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,133 Kennedy: No, I mean, I think we had, um -- 494 00:22:30,135 --> 00:22:33,337 What's the term of art? -- Creative differences. 495 00:22:33,339 --> 00:22:35,339 Anthony: I believe the fights that took place at george 496 00:22:35,474 --> 00:22:37,741 Were about the editorial. 497 00:22:37,743 --> 00:22:39,677 They were really having fights up there every day, 498 00:22:39,812 --> 00:22:41,479 Physical fights. 499 00:22:44,483 --> 00:22:47,485 There was enormous pressure. 500 00:22:47,620 --> 00:22:50,821 John -- when he was mad, he could be raw. 501 00:22:50,923 --> 00:22:53,623 He and michael? It was a fucking disaster. 502 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,293 It just went from bad to worse, 503 00:22:56,428 --> 00:22:58,896 And eventually michael left the magazine for good. 504 00:23:00,299 --> 00:23:02,165 I feel like the vision for the magazine 505 00:23:02,167 --> 00:23:03,968 Got really blurry after michael left. 506 00:23:04,103 --> 00:23:08,405 ♪ 507 00:23:10,076 --> 00:23:11,442 ♪ 508 00:23:13,712 --> 00:23:16,145 King: Who runs the show? 509 00:23:16,147 --> 00:23:17,681 Berman: Should we both answer at once? 510 00:23:17,816 --> 00:23:19,683 Ohh. 511 00:23:19,818 --> 00:23:23,787 Carmody: I think they started going wrong... 512 00:23:26,091 --> 00:23:27,691 ...Right when michael left. 513 00:23:27,693 --> 00:23:29,026 Now, you're a friend of his, right? 514 00:23:29,161 --> 00:23:30,493 Absolutely. Some days. 515 00:23:30,495 --> 00:23:32,095 How do you -- [ laughs ] 516 00:23:32,097 --> 00:23:33,630 Michael and john's relationship 517 00:23:33,765 --> 00:23:35,965 Had deteriorated before that. 518 00:23:35,967 --> 00:23:38,702 And also michael was the gatekeeper for john. 519 00:23:38,704 --> 00:23:40,370 He would be the one to go to john 520 00:23:40,472 --> 00:23:42,840 And say, "you have to do this," or, "you have to do that." 521 00:23:42,975 --> 00:23:44,574 Lamb: Does the magazine make money? 522 00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:47,176 Uh, not quite yet. Soon. 523 00:23:47,178 --> 00:23:48,645 Lamb: When do you think it will? 524 00:23:48,647 --> 00:23:51,648 Well, I mean, usually it takes about 10 years or so 525 00:23:51,650 --> 00:23:53,617 For a magazine to get into the black. 526 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:56,653 Gillon: He was down. 527 00:23:56,655 --> 00:23:58,187 He was tired. 528 00:23:58,189 --> 00:24:00,523 He had just gotten a letter from hachette 529 00:24:00,525 --> 00:24:03,526 That shook him up. 530 00:24:03,528 --> 00:24:06,930 And he said, "come back to the apartment, 531 00:24:07,065 --> 00:24:08,465 And I want you to read the letter 532 00:24:08,467 --> 00:24:10,667 And give me, you know, fresh eyes." 533 00:24:10,669 --> 00:24:13,470 And carolyn comes in, and she's smoking a cigarette. 534 00:24:13,472 --> 00:24:15,004 She's wearing a columbia university 535 00:24:15,006 --> 00:24:16,540 Oversized sweater. 536 00:24:16,641 --> 00:24:19,142 And I'm trying to read the letter, 537 00:24:19,277 --> 00:24:22,679 And she's like, "john, everybody [bleep] you, john. 538 00:24:22,781 --> 00:24:24,081 You let everybody [bleep] you. 539 00:24:24,216 --> 00:24:26,750 You got to start [bleep] people back, john." 540 00:24:26,885 --> 00:24:29,419 With carolyn, I mean, it's obvious from what I saw 541 00:24:29,421 --> 00:24:31,688 That there was, you know, issues there. 542 00:24:31,823 --> 00:24:34,157 He was trying to keep the magazine alive, 543 00:24:34,292 --> 00:24:35,892 And it was failing. 544 00:24:35,895 --> 00:24:37,961 It was clear that hachette 545 00:24:38,096 --> 00:24:40,931 Was not interested in publishing the magazine. 546 00:24:43,234 --> 00:24:45,234 Reporter: Stars and gossip hasn't increased 547 00:24:45,236 --> 00:24:47,771 The magazine's readership or ad sales. 548 00:24:47,773 --> 00:24:51,308 Monthly circulation hovers at about 400,000. 549 00:24:51,443 --> 00:24:53,777 Kennedy recently said it would take a circulation 550 00:24:53,779 --> 00:24:57,681 Of about 600,000 for george to turn a profit. 551 00:25:00,419 --> 00:25:03,787 With george, I definitely sensed a stress 552 00:25:03,789 --> 00:25:06,990 That I never sensed when we were in college, law school, 553 00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:08,725 The d.A., never. 554 00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:12,329 You know, I'd known him at that point for 20 years, I guess, 555 00:25:12,464 --> 00:25:14,597 And I'd never sensed 556 00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:19,068 That he felt professional pressure until george. 557 00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:21,070 You know, now he's in his mid 30s. 558 00:25:21,072 --> 00:25:23,340 "I'm gonna devote however many years 559 00:25:23,342 --> 00:25:25,408 I need to devote to make this work 560 00:25:25,410 --> 00:25:26,943 So that I can get on to the next, 561 00:25:26,946 --> 00:25:28,812 More important part of my life." 562 00:25:28,814 --> 00:25:31,481 King: Your own interest in politics -- you write about it. 563 00:25:31,617 --> 00:25:33,817 You were raised in a family that lives off it... 564 00:25:33,819 --> 00:25:34,417 Mm. 565 00:25:34,787 --> 00:25:35,953 ...And on it and through it and with it. 566 00:25:36,088 --> 00:25:36,619 Mm-hmm. 567 00:25:36,621 --> 00:25:37,821 What about you? 568 00:25:37,823 --> 00:25:39,156 The old definition of politics 569 00:25:39,291 --> 00:25:40,757 Was that you bring it at the end of your life, 570 00:25:40,859 --> 00:25:42,492 When you really have something to sort of offer. 571 00:25:42,494 --> 00:25:44,161 And maybe that's a good thing for me. 572 00:25:44,296 --> 00:25:47,831 I think that just added to this sense 573 00:25:47,966 --> 00:25:49,366 That he's the chosen one. 574 00:25:49,468 --> 00:25:51,835 He believed that he was the heir apparent. 575 00:25:51,970 --> 00:25:54,037 [ cheers and applause ] 576 00:25:54,172 --> 00:25:55,505 I never looked so good. 577 00:25:55,507 --> 00:25:56,373 [ laughter ] 578 00:25:56,608 --> 00:25:58,441 Reporter: Kennedy even hired political figures 579 00:25:58,443 --> 00:25:59,843 To jazz up the magazine. 580 00:25:59,845 --> 00:26:01,711 Former u.S. Senator al d'amato 581 00:26:01,713 --> 00:26:03,980 Dispenses advice in his column. 582 00:26:03,983 --> 00:26:05,982 Ginsberg: He was looking at the political horizon. 583 00:26:05,985 --> 00:26:08,385 What al d'amato had been kind of encouraging him 584 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,253 Was to run for office. 585 00:26:10,255 --> 00:26:13,523 At some point in time, there's going to be a vacancy. 586 00:26:13,625 --> 00:26:16,793 And so who knows? It may be john kennedy. 587 00:26:16,795 --> 00:26:18,528 What do you think, john? 588 00:26:18,530 --> 00:26:22,065 Not today, certainly, and not -- 589 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,801 Not while we have such an exciting roster of columnists. 590 00:26:24,903 --> 00:26:26,603 [ laughter ] 591 00:26:26,605 --> 00:26:28,805 On saint patrick's day 1999, 592 00:26:28,807 --> 00:26:32,542 He met with a powerful leader of a new york labor union, 593 00:26:32,678 --> 00:26:36,413 Who said, if john were to run, he would throw his support. 594 00:26:36,515 --> 00:26:39,015 And he sent a message to hillary clinton not to get in. 595 00:26:39,018 --> 00:26:42,151 Reporter: On February 16, 1999, 596 00:26:42,287 --> 00:26:44,221 Hillary clinton confirmed she was considering 597 00:26:44,356 --> 00:26:46,356 Running for the u.S. Senate. 598 00:26:48,293 --> 00:26:50,560 Well, I mean, listen, it's made 599 00:26:50,662 --> 00:26:53,496 A otherwise humdrum race 600 00:26:53,498 --> 00:26:55,498 Into something that is truly exciting 601 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,501 And has engaged new yorkers of all stripes. 602 00:26:58,503 --> 00:27:00,303 But john didn't want to be in the senate. 603 00:27:00,305 --> 00:27:02,239 He was gonna run for governor of new york. 604 00:27:02,374 --> 00:27:03,907 And I'm not being coy here, 605 00:27:03,909 --> 00:27:05,842 But if it changes into something else in -- 606 00:27:05,844 --> 00:27:07,977 In a number of years, great. 607 00:27:08,113 --> 00:27:10,347 And if it doesn't, then I have no complaints. 608 00:27:12,317 --> 00:27:17,054 He was now ready to serve the public in a meaningful job. 609 00:27:18,256 --> 00:27:20,590 You know, he looked at his father's career 610 00:27:20,692 --> 00:27:22,725 And had heard enough 611 00:27:22,727 --> 00:27:25,394 About how his father was frustrated 612 00:27:25,396 --> 00:27:27,797 Being a house member and a senator 613 00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:30,199 Because of the tedium of legislative hearings. 614 00:27:30,335 --> 00:27:31,735 If he had a choice, 615 00:27:31,836 --> 00:27:33,937 He'd much rather be in an executive role 616 00:27:34,072 --> 00:27:35,472 Than in a legislative role. 617 00:27:35,574 --> 00:27:38,207 So what john, I think, realized from george 618 00:27:38,209 --> 00:27:40,877 Was what a good leader he was, a leader of men and women, 619 00:27:41,012 --> 00:27:44,281 That he could inspire, he could set agendas, 620 00:27:44,416 --> 00:27:48,919 He could set priorities and then let others execute on that. 621 00:27:51,156 --> 00:27:56,025 John's greatest accomplishment was his ability to navigate 622 00:27:56,161 --> 00:27:59,829 These pressures that were placed upon him by everybody 623 00:27:59,831 --> 00:28:02,966 And come up with a true identity. 624 00:28:03,101 --> 00:28:07,436 And it took him a long time to do it. 625 00:28:07,438 --> 00:28:10,707 And one of the many tragedies of his death 626 00:28:10,709 --> 00:28:12,976 Was that he had finally figured it out. 627 00:28:12,978 --> 00:28:14,577 He had finally decided that, 628 00:28:14,579 --> 00:28:16,445 "yes, I want to get into politics." 629 00:28:16,447 --> 00:28:17,780 Do you still use the "jr."? 630 00:28:17,782 --> 00:28:20,383 Sometimes, but generally not. 631 00:28:20,385 --> 00:28:21,785 King: You're your own man, aren't you, john? 632 00:28:21,886 --> 00:28:23,520 You are your own bewilderment. 633 00:28:23,655 --> 00:28:24,854 We'll be right back. 634 00:28:24,856 --> 00:28:26,389 He's in the right business -- media. 635 00:28:26,524 --> 00:28:28,458 We'll be right back. Don't go away. 636 00:28:31,563 --> 00:28:34,396 ♪ 637 00:28:34,999 --> 00:28:38,200 Radziwill: Ironically and -- oh, it's sort of awful to think -- 638 00:28:38,336 --> 00:28:40,536 But what would be the last week of his life, 639 00:28:40,671 --> 00:28:43,339 He was writing anthony's eulogy. 640 00:28:43,341 --> 00:28:45,341 And carolyn was really glad about that 641 00:28:45,343 --> 00:28:47,209 Because he was finally coming to terms 642 00:28:47,312 --> 00:28:49,345 With the fact that anthony was going to die. 643 00:28:49,447 --> 00:28:52,414 And he struggled with it so much. 644 00:28:52,550 --> 00:28:57,419 The heartache that he was in over his cousin dying 645 00:28:57,421 --> 00:29:01,557 And the pressure and the stress he was feeling 646 00:29:01,692 --> 00:29:04,527 Over trying to save his magazine at the same time. 647 00:29:07,565 --> 00:29:09,098 Brown: You know, I think that john kennedy 648 00:29:09,233 --> 00:29:11,034 Loved that magazine. 649 00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:15,304 It was also a major embarrassment for him 650 00:29:15,307 --> 00:29:18,440 If the magazine folded, and everybody would have said, 651 00:29:18,442 --> 00:29:22,044 "you know, 'gilded kid' couldn't do it." 652 00:29:22,046 --> 00:29:24,113 He would have had to find someone to buy it, 653 00:29:24,215 --> 00:29:25,915 I think, to get out from under. 654 00:29:25,917 --> 00:29:29,118 Reporter: George achieved a circulation of 420,000, 655 00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:30,586 But it's been struggling, 656 00:29:30,721 --> 00:29:32,522 Its publisher weighing whether to drop it. 657 00:29:32,524 --> 00:29:35,457 And in recent weeks, kennedy has been looking for other partners 658 00:29:35,593 --> 00:29:38,861 In an effort to keep his creation alive. 659 00:29:38,997 --> 00:29:42,398 I knew that john was looking for new owners for the magazine. 660 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,401 Hachette had already told him a few months earlier 661 00:29:45,503 --> 00:29:47,403 That they were no longer gonna finance it. 662 00:29:47,405 --> 00:29:50,606 If he wanted to keep it alive, he had to finance it on his own. 663 00:29:50,608 --> 00:29:53,075 James murdoch and lachlan murdoch 664 00:29:53,077 --> 00:29:55,378 Were interested in taking a look at it. 665 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,949 Announcer: John kennedy jr. In the ballpark tonight. 666 00:30:00,084 --> 00:30:02,484 So I was like, "hey, john, let's just go to this yankees game 667 00:30:02,486 --> 00:30:04,721 With lachlan and james." 668 00:30:17,301 --> 00:30:20,102 Lachlan and james chatted with john, 669 00:30:20,104 --> 00:30:22,504 You know, during the break in innings. 670 00:30:22,506 --> 00:30:24,774 Um, it wasn't gonna go anywhere. 671 00:30:24,776 --> 00:30:26,809 I could tell. 672 00:30:29,647 --> 00:30:33,916 He had to make a graceful exit out of that 673 00:30:33,918 --> 00:30:35,885 Into a political future. 674 00:30:37,321 --> 00:30:38,921 This was actually the last night of his -- 675 00:30:39,057 --> 00:30:41,457 Last full night of his life. 676 00:30:43,928 --> 00:30:46,662 He was gonna fly the next day, 677 00:30:46,797 --> 00:30:49,732 Friday night, the 16th. 678 00:30:53,938 --> 00:30:55,671 It was just, you know, one of those phone calls 679 00:30:55,806 --> 00:30:58,674 That you dread. Immediately, you know. 680 00:30:58,676 --> 00:31:02,078 It's 11:00 or nearly midnight Friday night. 681 00:31:02,213 --> 00:31:08,083 And john's friend pinky was calling from hyannis airport 682 00:31:08,085 --> 00:31:11,821 Saying, "they're not here. Are they there with you?" 683 00:31:11,956 --> 00:31:13,823 And I mean, even like -- oh, my god -- 684 00:31:13,958 --> 00:31:16,558 25 years later, I still get, like, this pit in my stomach. 685 00:31:16,694 --> 00:31:18,227 And then I went into the kitchen, 686 00:31:18,362 --> 00:31:19,829 And I just started making phone calls. 687 00:31:19,964 --> 00:31:22,098 And, you know, I was a reporter, so I knew how to get 688 00:31:22,233 --> 00:31:24,233 Information from people. 689 00:31:24,368 --> 00:31:25,968 And I just started calling -- 690 00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:28,304 You know, I called everybody, 691 00:31:28,306 --> 00:31:31,841 The coast guard, the faa, logan air traffic control, 692 00:31:31,976 --> 00:31:34,977 Caldwell airport, hyannis airport. 693 00:31:35,113 --> 00:31:39,048 Every call I made was just more bad news, more bad news. 694 00:31:39,183 --> 00:31:40,983 Called caldwell, and I got a janitor. 695 00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:43,119 He said, "I see his car. It's in the corner of the lot. 696 00:31:43,254 --> 00:31:44,987 But his plane's not here." 697 00:31:45,123 --> 00:31:48,858 John was flying carolyn's sister lauren to the vineyard. 698 00:31:48,860 --> 00:31:50,993 And so I called again, and I said, 699 00:31:50,995 --> 00:31:52,594 "did she -- is lauren there?" 700 00:31:52,730 --> 00:31:53,996 And he said, "no." 701 00:31:54,132 --> 00:31:55,731 You know, I called carolyn's mom 702 00:31:55,866 --> 00:31:58,400 Just to tell her that, you know, they hadn't arrived 703 00:31:58,402 --> 00:32:00,135 And that the plane was kind of missing, 704 00:32:00,137 --> 00:32:03,806 But, you know, how do you say that to a mother? 705 00:32:03,942 --> 00:32:06,942 Finally, someone from hyannis called. 706 00:32:07,077 --> 00:32:09,411 I think it was joe kennedy, yeah. 707 00:32:09,547 --> 00:32:13,148 And I'm like, "um, joe, john never arrived, 708 00:32:13,150 --> 00:32:14,884 His plane is missing, and I just called the coast guard 709 00:32:15,019 --> 00:32:17,019 And reported it missing," you know, just thinking, 710 00:32:17,021 --> 00:32:18,487 "well, wait a minute. Maybe it's not 711 00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:20,389 What I think it definitely is." 712 00:32:22,827 --> 00:32:26,896 Anthony did get up, and he came into the kitchen. 713 00:32:27,031 --> 00:32:31,167 And he saw at that point I had, uh, yellow post-it notes 714 00:32:31,302 --> 00:32:35,037 All over the wall next to the phone. 715 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,907 He just looked at it and was like -- 716 00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:41,711 Just the sadness, just like... 717 00:32:41,713 --> 00:32:43,713 I remember him just putting his head down 718 00:32:43,715 --> 00:32:46,248 In his -- his -- his hands and was just like -- 719 00:32:46,250 --> 00:32:48,984 He couldn't even cry, he was so weak. 720 00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:52,188 Gillon: The last time I saw john, 721 00:32:52,323 --> 00:32:53,655 I think I, you know, hugged him 722 00:32:53,657 --> 00:32:55,925 And I went right and he went left. 723 00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:57,393 And at some point, for some reason, 724 00:32:57,395 --> 00:33:00,129 I turned around and saw him, 725 00:33:00,264 --> 00:33:03,065 The silhouette in the streetlight. 726 00:33:06,938 --> 00:33:09,138 He just looked so lonely. 727 00:33:09,273 --> 00:33:13,409 His hands in his coat pocket and head bowed down. 728 00:33:13,411 --> 00:33:16,345 I just felt so bad for him. 729 00:33:16,347 --> 00:33:18,347 Yeah. 730 00:33:18,349 --> 00:33:21,083 Reporter: Many are saying that the kennedy legacy meant 731 00:33:21,085 --> 00:33:24,153 That if john jr. Had decided at some point in the future 732 00:33:24,288 --> 00:33:27,890 To run for office, he would have had enormous potential. 733 00:33:28,026 --> 00:33:31,561 It was on every news channel across the world. 734 00:33:32,964 --> 00:33:35,998 It was a crazy fucking summer. 735 00:33:39,737 --> 00:33:41,737 [ airplane engine humming ] 736 00:33:46,244 --> 00:33:48,110 South: The one thing I will never forget 737 00:33:48,246 --> 00:33:50,913 Is the sound of the helicopters. 738 00:33:51,049 --> 00:33:54,716 [ helicopter blades whirring ] 739 00:33:54,718 --> 00:33:56,385 Helicopters that were doing the search, 740 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,988 But also news helicopters. 741 00:33:59,123 --> 00:34:01,257 And then it just kind of went from there. 742 00:34:05,063 --> 00:34:06,595 I was in connecticut. 743 00:34:06,598 --> 00:34:10,065 I was supposed to have been with them that weekend, 744 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,733 But I'm a nervous flyer. 745 00:34:11,735 --> 00:34:14,403 And I flew enough times with john. 746 00:34:14,538 --> 00:34:17,072 I think john was a very good pilot, 747 00:34:17,207 --> 00:34:20,276 But the idea of, like, those little planes, 748 00:34:20,411 --> 00:34:22,478 Going back and forth with him -- 749 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,215 I'd done it enough and thought, "never again." 750 00:34:26,350 --> 00:34:30,820 I got a phone call from carole like 5:00 a.M. In the morning. 751 00:34:30,922 --> 00:34:32,754 I got on a plane 752 00:34:32,756 --> 00:34:35,691 And flew to the vineyard early enough that morning 753 00:34:35,693 --> 00:34:38,227 That we still didn't know the news. 754 00:34:38,362 --> 00:34:40,762 Reporter: The us coast guard is conducting a search 755 00:34:40,764 --> 00:34:42,698 For a private aircraft. 756 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,035 South: Senator kennedy's office had been notified. 757 00:34:46,037 --> 00:34:47,769 There are reporters everywhere, 758 00:34:47,771 --> 00:34:49,839 And they're gonna find out that john kennedy's plane 759 00:34:49,841 --> 00:34:52,307 Has been reported missing. 760 00:34:52,309 --> 00:34:55,044 Reporter: The faa would not confirm the number of passengers 761 00:34:55,179 --> 00:34:57,179 On board the aircraft, but all odds are pointing 762 00:34:57,315 --> 00:34:59,582 Toward it being the plane with john kennedy jr. 763 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,585 Gillon: I'm on the phone with people at george, 764 00:35:03,721 --> 00:35:05,587 And I was like, "they're gonna find 765 00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:07,389 That the plane made a soft landing 766 00:35:07,391 --> 00:35:10,125 And john had a rope in his mouth and he's swimming to an island 767 00:35:10,260 --> 00:35:12,928 And lauren and carolyn are sitting in the back seat." 768 00:35:12,930 --> 00:35:15,464 I just couldn't -- I couldn't imagine john being gone. 769 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:18,734 More information now concerning a private plane 770 00:35:18,736 --> 00:35:20,936 Believed to be piloted by john f. Kennedy jr. 771 00:35:20,938 --> 00:35:22,804 Thought to have been on board with him 772 00:35:22,806 --> 00:35:25,741 Was his wife and one other person. 773 00:35:25,843 --> 00:35:27,543 Anthony: That morning there was a news alert 774 00:35:27,545 --> 00:35:29,078 The plane had gone missing 775 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,614 Because he was going for rory's wedding. 776 00:35:32,616 --> 00:35:34,216 It was dark. 777 00:35:34,218 --> 00:35:37,819 It became something that people obsessed about. 778 00:35:37,955 --> 00:35:39,621 It got non-stop coverage. 779 00:35:39,757 --> 00:35:42,824 It was something that every person in america 780 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,760 Was well aware of. 781 00:35:48,366 --> 00:35:49,698 Gillon: I just couldn't imagine it. 782 00:35:49,701 --> 00:35:51,233 As the day went on, 783 00:35:51,369 --> 00:35:53,969 The big thing was that john's sister, caroline, 784 00:35:54,104 --> 00:35:57,373 Called george and told them to tape up john's office. 785 00:35:57,508 --> 00:35:59,775 And that's when we kind of knew that it was over. 786 00:35:59,777 --> 00:36:01,243 Reporter: The transportation safety board 787 00:36:01,245 --> 00:36:02,844 Has just made it official. 788 00:36:02,846 --> 00:36:05,314 At the wreckage site, the divers successfully located 789 00:36:05,449 --> 00:36:07,449 The bodies of john f. Kennedy jr., 790 00:36:07,451 --> 00:36:10,385 Carolyn bessette-kennedy, and lauren bessette. 791 00:36:10,387 --> 00:36:13,923 Radziwill: It was so cruel for anthony to have to watch that. 792 00:36:14,025 --> 00:36:18,460 John and anthony -- they were real brothers. 793 00:36:18,462 --> 00:36:22,131 And all I could think of is, like, 794 00:36:22,133 --> 00:36:24,233 "I'm the only one left." 795 00:36:24,936 --> 00:36:27,603 ♪ 796 00:36:30,007 --> 00:36:32,807 ♪ 797 00:36:32,976 --> 00:36:35,009 Reporter: The skies were hazy, it was dark, 798 00:36:35,111 --> 00:36:36,611 And he was over water. 799 00:36:36,613 --> 00:36:38,146 Those are conditions that contributed 800 00:36:38,248 --> 00:36:39,881 To spatial disorientation, 801 00:36:39,983 --> 00:36:42,150 Where a pilot has difficulty determining 802 00:36:42,152 --> 00:36:45,086 Whether the plane is climbing, descending, or in a turn. 803 00:36:45,088 --> 00:36:47,622 Anthony: He was there almost, 804 00:36:47,624 --> 00:36:49,758 But he flew by sight. 805 00:36:49,859 --> 00:36:51,892 He didn't fly by instruments. 806 00:36:51,894 --> 00:36:54,696 The whole thing was just not a good idea. 807 00:36:56,099 --> 00:36:57,898 I just said, you know, 808 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,301 "how could he do this to himself, to his family?" 809 00:37:00,437 --> 00:37:03,037 Just no matter what, I wish he hadn't done that. 810 00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:05,173 Obviously, we all do. 811 00:37:05,275 --> 00:37:06,841 Crawford: I remember having that thought, like, 812 00:37:06,843 --> 00:37:09,310 "oh, I'm gonna remember this, 813 00:37:09,446 --> 00:37:13,782 Just like my mother remembered when john kennedy was shot." 814 00:37:13,883 --> 00:37:15,850 Brown: It's just astounding how many of the kennedys 815 00:37:15,852 --> 00:37:17,986 Have ended in tragic ways. 816 00:37:17,988 --> 00:37:21,389 Jfk jr. Should not have been at the helm of that plane. 817 00:37:21,391 --> 00:37:24,058 He was told it was not a good time to fly. 818 00:37:24,060 --> 00:37:26,394 So, in that sense, character is destiny. 819 00:37:26,396 --> 00:37:29,063 You know, it was like, "I'm gonna do it anyway." 820 00:37:29,165 --> 00:37:32,066 And that's really what the kennedy curse is, essentially. 821 00:37:32,168 --> 00:37:34,068 People don't say no to you. 822 00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:37,071 And sometimes you have to listen. 823 00:37:37,073 --> 00:37:39,474 They are, as a family collectively, 824 00:37:39,609 --> 00:37:41,209 Often doing reckless things, 825 00:37:41,211 --> 00:37:44,379 Dying in ski accidents and air crashes. 826 00:37:45,948 --> 00:37:47,548 Gillon: The whole week was a blur. 827 00:37:47,550 --> 00:37:50,084 I couldn't watch the news. I didn't watch tv. 828 00:37:50,086 --> 00:37:51,752 I just couldn't read a paper, 829 00:37:51,754 --> 00:37:53,888 Just blocked it out completely. 830 00:37:53,890 --> 00:37:56,090 Some of the streets are now being shut down 831 00:37:56,092 --> 00:37:58,092 As the family members of john f. Kennedy jr. 832 00:37:58,194 --> 00:37:59,694 And carolyn bessette-kennedy 833 00:37:59,829 --> 00:38:02,030 Prepare to say a final goodbye to their loved ones. 834 00:38:02,032 --> 00:38:04,232 The overwhelming memory I have of that day 835 00:38:04,367 --> 00:38:08,903 Was just silence of getting to the upper east side 836 00:38:08,905 --> 00:38:15,176 And then walking into the church and seeing just pure grief, 837 00:38:15,312 --> 00:38:18,312 Seeing john kerry crying in the back. 838 00:38:18,314 --> 00:38:21,716 It was less than a week after the plane had gone down. 839 00:38:23,253 --> 00:38:27,988 Carolyn will ever be that beautiful, 6'0" blond, 840 00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:33,161 Blue-eyed, mysterious woman who married john f. Kennedy. 841 00:38:34,597 --> 00:38:36,197 Gillon: And then we left the church, 842 00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:38,599 And there was a reception a few blocks away. 843 00:38:38,735 --> 00:38:41,002 And the streets were lined with people. 844 00:38:41,104 --> 00:38:45,206 And for me, that was the first realization I had 845 00:38:45,208 --> 00:38:48,810 Of what john meant to so many other people. 846 00:38:50,246 --> 00:38:52,146 He was john to me. 847 00:38:52,248 --> 00:38:54,148 And every once in a while, I had to be pulled out of that 848 00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:58,018 And to recognize that he was john f. Kennedy jr. 849 00:38:58,020 --> 00:39:00,354 And we were walking to the convent. 850 00:39:00,356 --> 00:39:03,024 I was like, "you know, john, you did okay." 851 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,593 [ cries ] 852 00:39:08,131 --> 00:39:10,699 Wright rigueur: When we think of these big political moments 853 00:39:10,834 --> 00:39:12,367 From the 1960s -- 854 00:39:12,502 --> 00:39:15,636 The assassination of john f. Kennedy, 855 00:39:15,638 --> 00:39:17,572 The assassination of martin luther king jr., 856 00:39:17,707 --> 00:39:19,840 The assassination of robert f. Kennedy -- 857 00:39:19,842 --> 00:39:23,511 Similar kind of gravitas in the 1990s 858 00:39:23,646 --> 00:39:26,047 Because of princess diana's death 859 00:39:26,149 --> 00:39:29,450 And then john and carolyn's disappearance. 860 00:39:29,586 --> 00:39:31,852 It's not political violence, 861 00:39:31,854 --> 00:39:35,523 But it still has the kind of weight that matters. 862 00:39:35,525 --> 00:39:38,392 This has implications for politics 863 00:39:38,394 --> 00:39:40,729 And how we understand, you know, 864 00:39:40,864 --> 00:39:43,864 Our connection to political memory. 865 00:39:43,866 --> 00:39:46,134 It's a generational-defining moment. 866 00:39:46,136 --> 00:39:49,203 Clinton: For more than 40 years now, 867 00:39:49,205 --> 00:39:52,941 The kennedy family has inspired americans to public service, 868 00:39:53,042 --> 00:39:56,076 Strengthened our faith in the future, 869 00:39:56,078 --> 00:39:58,079 And moved our nation forward. 870 00:39:59,315 --> 00:40:02,951 And through it all, they have suffered much. 871 00:40:03,086 --> 00:40:07,422 From the time he saluted his dad at the funeral, 872 00:40:07,557 --> 00:40:12,493 John was never going to be fully human, you know? 873 00:40:12,629 --> 00:40:15,096 He was always gonna be part of the myth 874 00:40:15,198 --> 00:40:17,298 Of camelot in the culture. 875 00:40:17,434 --> 00:40:18,967 Born of the sun, 876 00:40:19,068 --> 00:40:21,569 They traveled a short while towards the sun. 877 00:40:21,704 --> 00:40:25,573 An unwavering commitment to the poor, 878 00:40:25,708 --> 00:40:27,375 To the elderly, 879 00:40:27,377 --> 00:40:29,377 To those without hope, 880 00:40:29,379 --> 00:40:33,114 Regardless of fashion or convention, 881 00:40:33,216 --> 00:40:36,517 Is the greatest reward of public service. 882 00:40:36,653 --> 00:40:38,386 Wright rigueur: But actually, I think if we look 883 00:40:38,388 --> 00:40:41,990 At the brief flash of success of george, 884 00:40:42,091 --> 00:40:45,860 He ushers in an era that really captures 885 00:40:45,862 --> 00:40:50,064 The intersection of politics and celebrity. 886 00:40:50,066 --> 00:40:52,200 He had the foresight to understand, 887 00:40:52,202 --> 00:40:54,535 "this is where the country is going, 888 00:40:54,671 --> 00:40:56,136 And we need to address it." 889 00:40:56,138 --> 00:40:57,538 There was an opportunity here 890 00:40:57,674 --> 00:41:01,009 To change the definition of a political magazine. 891 00:41:01,144 --> 00:41:04,278 Lots of people write about john as the "what-ifs." 892 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,680 What could he have been? 893 00:41:05,815 --> 00:41:08,883 And this is, I think, the great tragedy 894 00:41:09,018 --> 00:41:10,885 Of john's death, 895 00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:13,287 Which is, at exactly the moment 896 00:41:13,389 --> 00:41:17,892 Where he looks poised to take the mantle from his father, 897 00:41:18,027 --> 00:41:20,294 His life is cut short. 898 00:41:20,429 --> 00:41:22,296 What would he have done? 899 00:41:22,298 --> 00:41:24,365 What would he have been? 900 00:41:24,501 --> 00:41:28,436 I think john's legacy is far more complex and comprehensive 901 00:41:28,438 --> 00:41:31,238 Than we actually give credit for. 902 00:41:31,308 --> 00:41:40,515 ♪ 903 00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:50,458 ♪ 904 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,529 Kennedy: If you're asking if it's hard being me, it's -- 905 00:41:54,664 --> 00:41:56,064 King: Well, it's brought you a unique life. 906 00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:58,666 Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely, and great opportunities 907 00:41:58,668 --> 00:42:01,069 And some challenges. 908 00:42:01,071 --> 00:42:04,104 But all in all, I feel very fortunate. 909 00:42:04,141 --> 00:42:11,813 ♪ 71752

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