Original subtitles

[male reporter] Join us now. Sisterhood is powerful.

The battle cry of the Women's Liberation Movement

brings out down New�York's Fifth Avenue

as more than 10,000 militant feminists stage a one-day strike for equal rights.

[woman] In the late '60s and '70s, the women's movement�opened up

a number of doors for women to have choices

to be whatever they wanted to be.

Equal rights. Equal rights to have a job, to have�respect,

to not be viewed as�a piece of meat.

[McChesney] There was a lot more Independence,

a lot more�empowerment.

[woman] This will continue as a political�coalition

to win the unfinished revolution of women's equality.

[McChesney] Women were a lot freer.

Hitchhiking, for example, was not a big�deal.

But because there was more of an open society,

new types of crimes against women became more common.

And in the Pacific Northwest at the time, there was someone...

evil out there...

doing really horrible things to women.

[Bundy] A person of this type chooses his victims for a reason.

His victims are young attractive women.

Women are possessions.

Beings which are subservient, more often than not, to males.

Women are merchandise.

From the pornographic, through Playboy, right on up to the evening news.

So there is no denying the sexual component.

However, sex has significance

only in the context of a much broader scheme of things.

That is possession, control, violence.

[theme music playing]

[male reporter] Police are focused in on their investigation into the cases

of missing�women in Washington State.

[reporter #2] King County police launched their investigation after Denise Naslund

and Janice Ott disappeared from Lake�Sammamish State Park.

A special 11-man task force was flooded with calls from witnesses

who said they had seen the suspect: a man who called himself Ted.

[man] Eight women disappeared in and around�Washington State

over six months.

As far as�I was concerned, it was new territory.

[man] All the girls were between the ages of 18�and 21,

four of the girls attended, were attending colleges.

Same hairstyle...

all very similar in appearance,

and when they disappeared, they left their�personal effects.

[Keppel] Everybody we could find, anybody who'd call in, we talked to.

[man] Thank you very much for calling.

[man #2] Police were getting reports that Ted was at Central State College

and at the Seattle Tavern, where two other�girls had disappeared.

And soon, Ted was being spotted behind every tree, behind every bush.

[McChesney] We were working 12, 14 hours a day

nearly every day of the week.

We weren't sure if we had a suspect whose name was really Ted or not,

but that�name brought forth�thousands of leads.

We looked through databases, driver's licenses,

criminal records to see who we had that might be Ted or Theodore.

Middle name, first name, uh, nickname.

We were also looking for someone driving a light brown Volkswagen Bug.

[Keppel] I don't know if you know how many Bugs

there were in the State of Washington during that time.

You wanna guess?

Forty-two thousand.

That's what we were dealing with.

Masses of information.

[McChesney] We started with literally 1,000 names.

Then we looked at suspects who we had�maybe of the name of Ted

who drove that kind�of a car,

whom perhaps people had reported as being a�little strange.

We put all those things together

and we�narrowed the number of potential�offenders down to 100.

But at that time,

we�didn't have enough�resources to manage the data quickly.

Everything was slow.

[man] This is a little different than, uh, most homicide cases.

We have witnesses that�observed our suspect, quote, "Ted."

I think one of these days we'll find him.

I don't-- I can't tell you when, but we will.

[man] After several weeks of conversations with Ted on death row,

when he started talking in the third person,

that was the breakthrough.

Our relationship changed at that moment...

from me being just another goddamn reporter

to me being the conduit for Ted being able to finally tell this story.

[Bundy] Now let's consider the possibility

that this person suffered from some sort of acute onset

of a desire that resulted in killing young women.

How do you account for it?

[Michaud] Ted started laying out the history

of what�he would soon come to call "the entity."

At its start, it's just a feeling.

First, this individual, as he called himself,

developed a pornography habit.

[Bundy] The early manifestations of this condition,

which is an interest concerning sexual images.

[Michaud] Mm-hmm.

[Bundy] Your standard fare that you'd see in the movie house

or in Playboy magazine.

[Michaud] Gradually, this kind of malign part of this�individual

started connecting...

naked women with violence.

[Bundy] The interest becomes skewed toward a more specialized literature--

some of it pretty grotesque,

which would preoccupy him more and more.

I asked him, "When does this individual first act out?"

[Bundy] It would reach a point

where the anger, the frustration, the anxiety, the poor self-image

feeling cheated, wronged, insecure...

he decides upon young attractive women being his victims.

The feeling grew and grew until the entity�controlled him,

and he would hear a voice

and he�did as the entity told him to do.

[Bundy] One particular evening,

he was driving down a fairly dark street,

and saw a girl walking along the street.

And parked his car and ran up behind the girl

and she heard him, she turned around, and he brandished the knife,

and grabbed her by the arm,

and told her to do what wanted her to do.

When he really got going, his eyes went absolutely black.

He had very blue eyes,

but his eyes would go black.

[Bundy] Let's say he placed his hands around her throat

just to throttle her into unconsciousness so that she wouldn't scream anymore.

When the need of that malignant condition

had been satisfied through sexual release,

he realized that he couldn't let the girl go.

So killing, to a degree,

will become a way of destroying evidence.

But the act of killing becomes an end in itself.

[indistinct chatter]

[man] Steven had got Ted talking in the third�person.

So we had a meeting, the three of us.

It was very strange, sitting...

a few feet...

three feet from a... guy like that.

He would not look me in the eye very often.

I found myself, and this sort of strange...

I would almost be mesmerized for a few moments...

looking at his hands.

Thinking, "My God, what did those hands do?"

[McChesney] After approximately a month,

there was nothing new really coming in.

[indistinct chatter]

Okay, what address does she have?

[McChesney] The big leap came when we received a call from a woman

who said, "I'm concerned about my boyfriend

named Ted�Bundy, whom you should look at."

[young Keppel] This will be an interview with Elizabeth Kloepfer. K-L-O-E-P-F-E-R.

Are you aware that this interview is being taped?

[Kloepfer] Yes.

-[Keppel] Is it taped with your approval? -Yes.

[Michaud] Ted and Liz had a very complex�relationship.

Their relationship had started rocking back and forth,

and it left Liz in a real mess.

There were these hints that there was�something deeper

and more complex about Ted than she had previously suspected.

[Kloepfer] Uh, he... mentioned an incident

about following a�sorority girl.

When he was out late at night, he would follow people like that.

That he'd try not to, but--

but he just did it anyway.

[Michaud] She found a bag of women's underclothing

in his apartment.

She found a bowl filled with house keys.

There was some plaster of Paris and some�bandages.

Another time she found a knife under the right front�seat of his car.

[Kloepfer] The night that Brenda Ball... disappeared,

he'd been with me and my�family,

and he left early in the evening and then the next day was late to my...

daughter's baptism.

And then he said, "It's pretty scary, isn't�it?"

[McChesney] She reported suspicious behavior on his part,

and she was, frankly, afraid.

But she was not certain.

[Kloepfer] In my own mind,

there were coincidences that seemed to tie�him in.

Yet when I would think about our day-to-day relationship,

there was nothing there that would lead�me to think

that he was a violent man capable of doing something like that.

[McChesney] We had a lot of women who called and said,

"I'm concerned that my boyfriend might be�this offender."

Whether his name was Ted or�not.

But this Ted was about the right age,

he was about the right physical description.

He was familiar with the University of�Washington

because he lived in the university district.

He did have that kind of a car.

So there were a lot of things that started�to add up.

[Keppel] We even found information

that this Ted had been to Lake Sammamish�State Park

the weekend before the Lake�Sammamish event happened.

[McChesney] So, where was Ted Bundy

on these various days when those women went missing?

Was he anywhere where somebody could provide an alibi for him?

As it turned out, as we continued to look�at his life,

there wasn't any alibi.

So Ted was a... absolutely prime suspect.

[Bundy] After Lake Sammamish,

they were working from a list of hundreds�upon hundreds of leads.

So the emphasis becomes on don't get caught.

Then it becomes a matter of disposing of the problem...

without leaving any, uh, evidence.

[man] They finally had their first possible suspect.

At that point,

the captain of Seattle homicide,

he had me do�some ride-alongs with some of his detectives,

staking out a suspect at the University of Washington.

I was in the back seat of an undercover�car

with two plain-clothed policemen staking out somebody.

We just sat there all night long

on a radio, listening for...

any movement of his car, and there never was.

And I didn't know at the time, in fact, didn't realize until some time later,

it was Ted Bundy's car.

[McChesney] At that point, we did have a photograph�of Ted.

and we prepared photo lineups and showed to witnesses

who had been at Lake Sammamish Park.

[reporter] The photograph of Ted Bundy was shown to�at least eight witnesses

from Lake�Sammamish.

Seven positively said Ted Bundy was not the�mysterious Ted.

[McChesney] It was a surprise that they felt that it�was not him.

So, we didn't have definitive identification

that this indeed was the person who had�committed these crimes.

But I certainly wish that we had.

There were no fingerprints. There were no eyewitnesses.

There was nothing�physically that would connect Ted to the crimes.

They had nothing to charge him with.

Ted was never brought in for an official�police interview.

[Bundy] I suppose they could be faulted for not...

actually coming out and talking to me,

but on the other hand they can't be faulted.

Which one are they gonna pick,

the law student with no criminal background

or are they going to go after the guy with the...

arrest record for robbery, or you know, the types?

The real weirdos.

People don't realize that murderers do not come out in the dark

with long teeth and saliva dripping off their chin.

Everybody wanted this Ted to be somebody�you could pick out.

He wasn't that way.

[Keppel] We didn't have any information at that time

that we could have charged Bundy with murder.

That's what people don't understand.

[female reporter] Where does this investigation now stand?

Police officials will not discuss this King County�investigation

because it is still an�active case.

No one will or can confirm

that the�investigation continues on other suspects.

[McChesney] In any investigation,

you will reach some point where you run out of leads.

So we stopped the full task force at that�point.

But there was also the fact that the murders�had seemed to stop.

So we didn't know if the person had died,

had left the area, had just stopped...

committing these crimes on their own.

[male reporter] What it was evident this spring

that the investigation had reached a dead end,

police admitted that they could only catch Ted

if he committed another crime and got caught.

[Bundy] I loved Utah.

I decided that I was moving down there

in September of '74.

Hopped on the interstate going south toward Provo.

All of a sudden I felt-- I felt almost euphoric.

I just looked out the window and watched the scenery and...

dreamed and reminisced and...

generally maintained a real good feeling I had

all the way into Utah.

Ted moved to Salt Lake City to start law�school

at the University of Utah.

I did not understand why Ted went off to�Utah for law school.

I advised him to go to University of Puget�Sound.

'Cause that was the school I was going to.

But he was insistent

and I was surprised that he went off to Utah.

[Bundy] We are dealing with an individual

whose primary concern is not to be detected.

The individual's modus operandi was

-moving large amounts of distance... -Mm-hmm.

...in an attempt to camouflage what he was doing.

And that he was also able to take advantage

of the anonymity factor.

[Michaud] The Ted people saw in Utah

was pretty much�the same mild-mannered law student

that he�projected in the State of Washington.

And that's what Ted did, he snowed people.

[man] Ted Bundy befriended me in 1974.

I was what we call a branch president in the Mormon church.

One day, two members in our branch

had knocked on the door of, uh, Ted Bundy.

They got talking and he expressed an�interest.

Eventually, he became a member of the�church.

He was baptized...

and then he was placed in�our branch.

�� Put your shoulder to the wheel... ��

[Bundy] He's probably so caught up in living a dual life that...

he'd been enmeshed in that continuing cycle

of trying to maintain a normal life.

He would modify his behavior

to make him a sound, stable, law-abiding individual.

[Preece] I felt that he was a handsome young man

that seemed to have his life pretty much in�order.

He came to the activities.

He came to the church meetings and, uh...

responded in a positive way.

So I thought that things were good for him for the future.

[woman] Summer of '74 was just fun.

A fun summer.

I was 18.

Graduated from high school

and got a job at the local phone company.

I had gotten a car, '74 Camaro.

Maroon with black leather seats and a�black top.

[laughs]

And I just started dating a guy who had a�matching Camaro.

Everything was great.

I wasn't worried about anything.

And then I heard about a girl in a city next door, Midvale.

She had been found murdered.

She was a police chief's daughter.

It was very alarming,

but there wasn't a�lot of information to cause me to be in a panic.

[reporter] Melissa Smith left her father

to meet a friend at this Midvale restaurant.

They talked for a while and then Melissa left.

She set for home. She never got there.

Nine days later, Melissa's body was found in Summit County.

She had been beaten and strangled with a�nylon stocking.

I don't want another parent

to go through what my wife and I went through.

I don't think that's right.

I want to know that--

that the young girls are safe on the�street.

[Michaud] In the Autumn of 1974,

there were two other disappearances in the state of Utah.

Nancy Wilcox�vanished after leaving her house.

Her body was never found.

Another girl by the name of Laura Aime

also vanished and was later found in the�Wasatch Mountains.

She had been bludgeoned and raped.

[man] People were very very worried.

I was the assistant�prosecutor,

uh, for the Salt Lake County Attorney's Office.

The number of missing and dead girls was certainly an unusual occurrence.

We didn't connect our cases to the missing�girls in the Seattle area.

You wouldn't ever think in your wildest dreams

there was a serial killer in the community.

[DaRonch] November 8, 1974. It was a Friday.

I didn't really have plans that night.

So I decided that I would get in my car and head over for the mall.

I drove to the parking lot,

parked under a light,

and walked into the mall.

Started looking in a bookstore window.

And as I was looking in the window, a man�approached me.

He said he was a police officer.

He said, "Well, we found someone trying to break into your car."

He was polite.

He asked me if I wanted to come out to the car�with him

and see if anything was�missing.

So we got out to my car, and I could see in the car

that nothing was missing.

And he�kept leaning forward like he wanted me

to look�further in the car, but I wouldn't.

I just�said, "Nothing's missing."

And that's when he said, "Well, they're�holding this guy

down at the police�station.

Do you have time to come down there

and fill out a complaint against him?"

And then I said, "Do you have some kind of�identification?"

'Cause I-- I just was starting to feel a little uneasy

and I�thought I could smell alcohol.

And that's when he just promptly pulled out his wallet

and showed me a badge,

and I�went, "Oh, okay."

He drove a Volkswagen,

which I thought, "Well, that's kind of odd, but maybe he's undercover."

And I got in.

He headed down a side street...

and then he suddenly pulled over

up on�the side of a curb by an elementary�school.

And that's when I just started freaking out, "What are we doing?"

And he grabbed my arm

and he got one handcuff on one wrist,

and he didn't get the other one on, and the one was just dangling.

I had never been so frightened in my entire�life.

And I know this is�cliché, but my whole life�went before my eyes.

I thought, "My God, my parents�are never gonna know what happened to me."

The next thing I knew, he had pulled out a gun

and said, "I'll blow your�head off."

I just thought, "Go ahead. Just go ahead.

Do it. Just kill me now."

But I just found the door, jumped out of the�car.

He came out after me, and we struggled outside.

He had a crowbar. He was trying to hit me over the head.

I had my hand on top. I could feel it.

I just fought with all my might, thrashing with him and fighting.

My fingers nails were all broken.

I remember his beady, blank, lifeless eyes.

At that time, a car started coming the other�direction.

And that's when I broke loose and ran to�the car

I flew open their door and jumped in�on them,

and I said, "Take me to the police�station."

I was just hysterical.

I was very lucky and it was really shocking to find out later

that he was so�angry that I had gotten away

he just drove somewhere else and killed someone else.

[reporter] Debra Kent was attending a play with Viewmont High School.

She left the play early to pick up her�brother.

Debbie never got to her car.

The same night that Carol DaRonch was kidnapped,

Debbie Kent was abducted in a parking lot north of Salt Lake.

Found in the parking lot was a handcuff�key.

And the key fit my handcuff that I had had on me.

[reporter] Police believe the key was from the same�handcuffs

used to kidnap Carol DaRonch

four hours earlier, the same night Debbie Kent�disappeared.

[Michaud] Now there's a witness and real evidence.

The police are starting to make�connections.

[McChesney] It had been a number of months,

and we had run out of leads to pursue

for the missing women in the State of Washington.

So, sometimes you have to rely on people who might...

by circumstance,

find something.

[Lucas] I got a call from a friend in the police�department.

And he said, "Get your butt up to Taylor Mountain."

I said, "What's going on?" And he said, "Just go."

So I went up there�with some of the Seattle homicide detectives,

and, uh, they told me that they had found bodies.

[Keppel] It was a group of student foresters

marking trees on Taylor Mountain,

and they found the skull of Brenda Ball,

laying in the woods.

They called the Sheriff's Office

and we�began a search ourselves with our own search�and rescue volunteers.

And we discovered, a hundred feet apart, the remains of three other women.

It was pretty much of a nightmare.

[young Keppel] We keep finding more and more everyday.

You get into that woods and you just don't know what's in there.

It's so thick and so overgrown with bushes...

that you could find anything, you know...

uh, a couple of hours from now or five minutes from now.

It doesn't matter.

[Michaud] What do you think can be surmised about Taylor Mountain?

[Bundy] About the Taylor Mountain crime scene?

We can make a reasonable guess...

that this individual was clearly trying to cover up his crimes.

When a body was left there,

the animals in the area were doing, you know,

his work for him.

And he would continue to go back there

simply because he had his own garbage disposal.

[reporter] Remains of six missing girls were found at the same site.

The skeletal remains of 21-year-old Linda Ann Healy,

22-year-old Brenda Ball of Seattle,

18-year-old Susan Elaine Rancourt of Anchorage, Alaska,

and 20-year-old Roberta Kathleen Parks from Lafayette, California.

Just a few miles away from the place where those four were found,

police identified two other murdered girls.

These two disappeared from the same place, Lake Sammamish State Park.

They were 23-year-old Janice Ott...

and 18-year-old Denise Naslund.

[McChesney] The women were abducted from entirely different locations,

but were ultimately found up at Taylor Mountain.

And so, at that point,

we were quite sure that...

the women who had been missing and the�women who had been found

were all killed by the same person.

I began reporting that this person was a�serial killer.

So-- I think we were the first station

that began making that assumption on the air.

Other reporters then began jumping on the story.

[reporter] And Mackie, the Taylor Mountain is sort of known�as a lover's lane.

There's evidence to indicate it if you look�around the ground.

-Can you be a bit more specific, please? -Can you formulate any hypothesis--

Can you formulate an hypothesis that maybe this-- the subject, uh,

was first a lover, then a killer?

Well...

you can conjecture all you want�on that,

but the problem that we have in this-- these cases, is--

is different than most homicide cases. We don't know the way they were killed.

So it's pretty hard to make any judgment on this at all...

of how they were killed, because all we've found is bones.

[McChesney] The remains were found scattered apart,

affected and impacted by animals.

We didn't have the technology that we have now.

We didn't have the DNA capabilities.

[young Keppel] The evidence that we had initially found on our bodies...

was almost non-existent

It kind of sounds morbid to say this, but we were hoping for another body

with more�evidence on it

than what we could produce from the ones we had.

[McChesney] We still didn't have an offender named,

and it was still quite a mystery.

[birds chirping]

[Lucas] After working in Seattle,

I got the job with the TV station in Denver, Colorado.

When I got there, I realized that, by coincidence,

there was also a problem with missing and murdered�women

throughout Colorado.

I felt that I was following this trail of terror

from the northwest to Colorado.

On January 12th, 1975, Caryn Campbell disappeared from the Wildwood Inn.

[man] Caryn Campbell was a young woman on vacation

with her fiancé, I believe, and his children.

[female reporter] Caryn Campbell sat with her fiancé,

Dr. Raymond Gadowski,

in front of a fire in the lobby of the Wildwood Inn.

They had�just finished dinner at a restaurant, The Stew Pot.

Miss Campbell wanted a magazine from her room.

About eight o'clock in the evening, she caught the elevator

to the second�floor.

That was the last time Gadowski saw�her alive.

Thirty-six days later, her nude body was found�almost three miles away.

Though the body was partially destroyed by animals,

the coroner was able to�establish that Miss Campbell had died

about two hours after the dinner at The�Stew Pot on January 12th.

[Leidner] Caryn Campbell's family

must have gone through all kinds of anguish.

Her body was found...

and it had been out there for the greater�part of the winter.

I can't imagine how they dealt�with it. I cannot imagine.

It was a big deal, because�murders didn't happen in Aspen.

And then there were at least two other�killings in Colorado.

[male reporter] Two more women have gone missing.

Julie Cunningham, a 26-year-old woman�from Vale,

and Denise Oliverson, a 24-year-old from Grand Junction.

Their whereabouts are unknown.

They both vanished without a witness, without a sign, without anything.

[reporter] Colorado authorities now add to their growing list

of missing and murdered women.

A coroner's report concludes that it is�possible

the same person killed these�women.

Somebody was getting away with murders. Many murders.

It had all of the elements

of what we feared was going on in the northwest.

That was a pattern that somebody should have looked at.

But these various police departments...

they weren't sharing information across state lines.

[Bundy] The inherent shortcomings of law enforcement

make the detection of crime

and the solution of crime an extremely difficult process.

Defects in our system of law enforcement

permit the individual to get away with it.

[Michaud] Ted had pride in what he did. He really thought of himself as a hunter,

and he�took big game,

and he felt that he had�achieved something really special...

that nobody else had done

because he was so damn good at it.

[DaRonch] Almost a year later,

the police had no suspect in my�kidnapping.

I thought about it all the time.

I thought, "Why can't they find this man?"

The police watched my house�constantly, drove past all the time.

My dad slept with his deer hunting rifle under his bed.

I tried to move on with my life,

but it was always in the back of my mind,

"Where is this guy? Why can't they catch him?"

[Yocom] One night, a highway patrolman, Bob Hayward,

was in a residential area around Salt Lake City.

And he saw this VW automobile

driving down the street with its lights off.

He became very suspicious and tried to�stop the vehicle.

It ran from him and he chased it...

and finally stopped it and pulled it over.

[Bundy] It was a freak occurrence that brought me in contact with Hayward

at two o'clock in the morning.

We're talking about luck.

[Yocom] The driver was arrested for failing to stop

at the command a police officer.

He was identified as Ted Bundy.

[man] Mr. Bundy wanted to hire a lawyer, so he called me and said,

"I've been arrested, and I need to see a lawyer."

Made an appointment and came in.

John O'Connell was the other lawyer and eventually became lead counsel.

Initially, it just seemed like a minor�matter.

Misdemeanor charges.

Seemed to be just a big mistake in a series of coincidences.

Here's a guy that was a college�graduate.

He was joining the LDS Church.

My secretary at the time was a young lady who had dated him.

He seemed like, uh, one of us, if you will.

But shortly thereafter, prosecutors got in touch with me

and said, "We'd like you to come in and talk to you�about this guy."

We think there may be more to this than meets the eye.

[female reporter] Police found a brown gym bag in his car,

containing a ski mask, an ice pick, some strips of torn sheet.

[Yocom] The items found in his vehicle were very suspicious.

There was a pry bar, pantyhose, there were handcuffs.

He also matched the description of the�individual

that had attempted to kidnap Carol DaRonch.

So the investigation of Ted Bundy began in earnest.

The police called to say they had a�suspect

and they want to know if I could come�down

and look at him in a lineup.

It was a relief to think that they had�caught someone.

Ted called me unexpectedly at home

and said that he was upset.

He explained to me that he had been�arrested

and that he was scheduled the following day to be in a lineup.

His demeanor at that time was unlike him.

He was usually so well ordered, so... calm.

But there was something very upsetting in this to him.

I could tell.

That made me, uh, suspicious.

[Yocom] When Ted�was brought in for a lineup,

he had changed his appearance completely from the�few days before.

He had his hair cut off and he changed his part from one side to the other,

and he made himself look completely different.

So we had to scramble to get other people�in the lineup

to look like him at the�time.

It so happened the only people available were law enforcement�officers.

[DaRonch] They brought me into the police station and sat me down.

And they had them walk out and turn around and talk.

And I recognized him immediately.

The minute he walked in, when I saw him�walk, I knew it was him.

[Bundy] People built a case around a non-existent eyewitness.

Eyewitness identification was built by the police.

But I kept it together,

because there's no point in destroying myself.

I have got to keep myself together. I've got to keep my presence of mind.

Because as long as I do that, I am going to beat these people.

[Lubeck] After those identifications,

he was charged very�quickly with the kidnapping.

And things changed from there, as we�got to know more.

[Michaud] The front page of the Seattle Post Intelligencer

has a headline which reads, "Is 'Utah Ted' the 'Seattle Ted?'"

[McChesney] From that moment on, we thought,

"This might be the 'Ted' that we were looking for."

[reporter] Is Ted Bundy indeed a suspect in your cases in King County?

Well, it-- it's-- It's common knowledge that he is.

[Michaud] That is when the states start talking to�one another.

[male reporter] Investigators from multiple Western states

are convening in Aspen today

to compare notes on missing women�cases

that could be connected to Theodore Robert Bundy.

It's the first multi-state conference of its kind.

[Keppel] We were wondering if what happened to the Colorado victim

looks like what happened to the Utah victim

and looks like what happened to the Washington State victim.

[Yocom] There were similar characteristics to the homicides.

But at the time, the kidnapping case of Carol DaRonch

was the best case against Ted Bundy.

The next step was to put the case together and, uh, bring it to trial.

The responsibility that was placed on my shoulders is the lead prosecutor.

[Preece] The reaction of the people in our church�branch

that had known Ted was one of incredulity.

They just knew that he was innocent of all charges.

That was-- That was their feeling.

Surely, this couldn't be true of Ted Bundy.

[Vortman] Ted called me up, told me he was in�jail in Utah.

And I said, "Okay, I'll come�down and see you, hold your hand."

I flew down to Salt�Lake and put myself up.

[Preece] The branch members wondered,

"What can�we do to make people know that he's not�guilty?"

And they flocked to his defense.

[DaRonch] I remember running into a woman in my�subdivision,

and she had said, you know,�"Carol, are you sure you have the right guy?"

She was questioning me just because he�was a college student

and... charming,

good-looking, smart...

and it was frustrating.

[Lubeck] We went to trial in February of '76.

There was a lot of publicity.

Ted wanted to be involved.

He would look up cases and come to us�with ideas.

He said, "I didn't do anything. I'm not worried about it."

It was pretty evident that he relished the fight.

Ted presented himself as a clean-cut, boy-next-door type

and he had a following�in the courtroom that gave him a lot of�confidence.

[reporter] You mentioned that it was, uh, an education for the justice system.

How do you feel about the justice system�in general

based on your experience?

Well, I'm sure it works and you've gotta have faith it'll work

or else you'd be reduced to some kind of, uh...

you know, mumbling idiot.

Does that mean, uh, ultimately you want�to get involved

-in the criminal justice system? -Well... [chuckles]

Um, a funny thing happened to me on the way to labor law class one morning.

I got two weeks in the spa on the third�floor up here.

And, yes, I intend to complete my legal education to become a lawyer

and be a�damn good lawyer.

Uh, I think things are going to work out.

That's about all I can say.

[Yocom] Prior to the trial, Ted had waived his right to�a jury trial

and decided to try the case before Judge Hanson without a jury,

so the judge would make the decision on guilt or innocence alone

without a jury there.

[Lubeck] We felt pretty good about the trial.

Carol DaRonch was not strong.

She wasn't real certain of herself.

[DaRonch] There were tons of people at the trial.

I had never done anything like that�before and�I was frightened.

[man] Did he look different today than as you remembered him to?

He's looked different every time. He's changed his appearance.

[man] Different all the time?

[DaRonch] I was on the stand for hours.

They were always trying to confuse me or trip me up...

but I didn't care.

[Bundy] When Carol DaRonch came to testify,

I was beside myself with rage.

Uh, she is turning into a professional witness as far as I'm concerned.

I pointed at him and said, "He was the one.

He was the man that tried to kidnap me."

[Bundy] When I heard her go through that routine,

I got very, very angry and indignant.

And I got up and I pointed at the judge and pointed at her

and I said, "She's lying. She's lied before, and she's lying now.

[DaRonch] I just thought he was really arrogant

and always had a�smirk on his face.

[Bundy] There is no right way for me to act.

I showed emotion. You know what people said?

"See? He really can get violent and angry."

And I don't care what people think about how I act.

I act according to the way I think is right and best for me at the time.

I just think he thought he was gonna get away with it.

[male news anchor] Theodore Robert Bundy, at age 25,

a Republican campaign worker in Seattle.

At 28, a University of Utah law student.

At 29, a convicted Utah kidnapper.

[man] I just heard this afternoon that...

the Salt Lake prosecutors had obtained a conviction.

And I just think they did

a thoroughly professional, outstanding job,

and I congratulate them on having succeeded.

[Lubeck] During the sentencing proceedings,

Ted was�eventually given what is called a 90-day evaluation,

where he went to the Utah�State Prison for an evaluation.

[man] I was a psychologist doing evaluations for the�judge

about whether he wants to send the�person to prison or be put on probation.

The question was not whether or not he committed the crime.

He'd been found guilty.

The question was whether or not is he�violent.

There were so many people who said, "He couldn't have done these things.

He just doesn't have the personality."

And so that's what was so fascinating-- It was a big mystery.

And I like mysteries.

My introduction to Ted:

He walks toward me with a smile on his face,

looking very nice.

You know, his clothes were pressed.

And...

he extended his hand and says,

"Hi, I'm Ted Bundy. You must be Dr. Carlisle."

[Bundy] The psychologist--

Well, he was an asshole, but there must be, uh...

some better words to describe that kind of mentality.

I-- I probably spoke to him more often

during the time I was at the Utah State Prison

than any other prison official.

[Carlisle] In essence, I says, "Okay, Ted, to understand you.

I wanna talk about your life."

Bundy always painted a very positive picture...

of his mother, of his grandparents.

[Bundy] Most of my close friends, we played pee wee football.

I later went out for the track team. I did well in academics.

Never had any trouble. Not even a suggestion of trouble.

I talked to the family. They thought he was wonderful.

[Mrs. Bundy] We still don't believe it. It just-- just can't be.

I keep shaking my head, saying, "How can this�be?"

Because he had lots of friends,

very good student in school, was a very�normal, active boy.

[voice wavering] Our son is the best son in the world.

[Carlisle] I talked to a few people in Salt Lake.

I talked to some girlfriends.

There were those who said, "No, there's�another side.

There's a dark side of him."

One girl told me they went swimming�together...

and he pushes her head underwater and holds it there.

He lets her up,

takes a breath,

he pushes her down again.

And she's thinking, "He's trying to kill me."

And I found out that there was this big...

event that occurred, which I think was really something powerful.

When he was about 14 years old,

in an old trunk, he found his birth certificate

and in the spot where it says, "father,"

it said, "unknown."

So that's how he found out that he was�illegitimate.

[Michaud] Ted's mother, Louise, became pregnant

and had him in a home for unwed mothers.

Then she left. She went home.

She didn't intend to keep the child.

But her father, Ted's grandfather, insisted,

"No, you go back and get that boy and bring him home."

[Carlisle] When I ask him about that, he says, "Oh, that was no problem.

That didn't bother me at all."

[Bundy] This, of course, this illegitimacy issue is...

for the amateur psychologist it's the thing.

I mean, it's so stupid. It just bugs the shit out of me.

I don't know what to do about it.

How many people are in fact--

find out that they are illegitimate, or even adopted, at a later age?

It's normal.

Denial, denial, denial, denial.

To me, that was a big red flag.

[Bundy] The prison psychologist hoped so much

that he himself would be responsible

for opening Ted Bundy up for the world to see...

what was ticking inside Bundy's obviously devious mind.

[Michaud] It turns out that Ted's grandfather had a violent streak.

And there was ample reason to suspect

that Ted suffered some sort of abuse as a�child,

psychological or physical.

[Carlisle] We were getting close to the end�of all�this interviewing,

and Ted and I were�standing outside the office.

He says, "Al, do you believe I killed�those girls

that they suspect me of in the Northwest?"

And I hadn't mentioned them.

And I paused for just a moment.

What I said was,

"Ted, I don't know,�but I�think if you did, you'll do it again."

He just looked at me for just a moment...

and then he went back down the corridor to his cell.

And I submitted my report to the judge

saying that it was my opinion

that Ted had a violent side to him.

Judge Hanson sentenced him to the Utah State Prison for,

under Utah law, what's called an indeterminate term of one to 15 years.

After he was sentenced to prison, I stayed�in touch with him quite closely,

much, much more so than any other client.

And I went to see him frequently at the prison.

[Bundy] I was in the visiting area of maximum�security

at the Utah State Prison with Bruce Lubeck.

Bruce and I had been talking for no more than 15 minutes

when the steel doors to security slid open.

And into the room walked three men.

They approached me and said, "Mr. Bundy, we have here...

the warrant for your arrest for the murder of Caryn Campbell in Colorado.

Bundy became an interest to Colorado because of good detective work.

There was circumstantial evidence that put Bundy

in the Wildwood Inn, in�Snowmass.

[Yocom] We had found, through a search warrant,

in Ted's apartment in Salt Lake,

a brochure�advertising the Wildwood Inn

where Caryn Campbell was staying.

We gave�that over to Colorado.

[Michaud] Then the police in Colorado got Ted's gas slips,

and they could place him within a�few miles of Caryn Campbell

on the night she disappeared.

[Yocom] A witness came forward as seeing him in the elevator

on the very day that Caryn�was missing.

[Leidner] He was, uh, charged first-degree murder with premeditation,

which would�have carried, at that time, the death�penalty.

Utah allowed him to be extradited back to Colorado, which is very unusual.

But the Colorado case involved a murder, so it was more serious.

[male news anchor] It was thought Bundy would fight extradition,

but this morning he told a Utah judge he was ready to go to Colorado.

[female reporter] Why did Ted decide to wave extradition?

Well, he is confident that he can win�in Colorado.

He's confident that he can go over there,�stand trial, and win.

And that's what he's gonna do.

[Yocom] He was placed in a jail in Aspen, awaiting trial there.

[Lubeck] When he went to Colorado,

we began to see a good deal of change in Mr. Bundy, the way he...

reacted to the legal system.

I went over to visit him in county jail,

which was a trip back in�history.

Down in the basement, low ceiling, bars--

Just the classic old jail.

Down there, he had gotten in a row with one of the guards.

A very innocuous comment was made by�the guard,

but he got really, really angry.

Red face, teeth bared, shaking...

They were treating him just like everyone�else.

Like he was nothing special and he�couldn't endure it.

[Bundy] I don't like being locked up. I don't like my liberty taken away,

and I don't like being treated like an animal,

and I don't like people walking around and ogling me

like I'm some sort of weirdo, because I'm not.

Uh, being in prison...

going through a kind of hell...

matures a person, and I-- I think it's-- it's done good things for me.

[Leidner] He wasn't one of my favorite clients.

He was very egocentric.

When I would go to visit him,

the only thing he would talk about is himself.

He wouldn't talk about the case.

He wouldn't talk about the cases in other states.

The conversations were completely vapid

and devoid of any content.

Yeah, I know more about the-- My class is graduating in about a month.

From law school.

I'll bet you I know more about law than any of them.

[woman] How does it make you feel that they are graduating?

That pisses me off. [chuckles] Now, that does piss me off.

[female reporter] Bundy spends his life inside this 16-cell county jail.

He gets up at 6:30 in the�morning,

walks, he says, about two miles a day, pacing his cell.

But he spends most of his�time preparing his defense.

First of all, I guess I should just ask how are you doing up here.

It's a-- It's a--

short question deserving a long answer. Uh...

I'm doing well. I feel good. Uh...

Working hard on my case.

Uh...

Need a lot more sun and a lot more fresh air.

But other than that, I'm doing okay.

[woman] Do you get fresh air? Sun? Do you get out at all?

Well, I get to go to the library. [chuckles] It's a 50-yard walk from here

across the parking lot to the library. That's my fresh air.

[reporter] Ted, when you left Salt Lake, when you were extradited,

you issued a statement saying...

you feel that...

everything will turn out all right, that you are innocent.

Do you still feel that?

You bet. Yeah, more than ever.

I feel good about it, and yes, I feel that I'm right,

and yes, I feel I'm going�to make it.

No doubt in my mind.

Gotta stick it up here more.

Let me ask just a question here now,�okay?

You are not guilty?

No, I'm not guilty. [laughs]

Does that include the time I stole a comic book when I was five years old?

[chuckles] I am not guilty of the charges which have been filed against me.

And the allegations?

-And the allegations. -And the rumors, and--

I don't know all of what you're speaking about, Lucky.

It's too broad, and I can't get into it in any detail.

Uh...

But I'm satisfied with-- with my...

blanket statement that I'm innocent.

Uh, no man is truly innocent.

I mean, we all transgressed in some way in our lives.

And as I say I...

I've been, uh...

impolite and other things I regret having�done in my life,

uh, but...

nothing like the things I think that you're referring to.

[female reporter] Have you ever physically harmed anyone?

"Ever physically harmed anyone"?

No.

No.

You know, uh...

Again, not in the context I think that you're speaking of.

You know? [inhales]

[male reporter] Do you think about getting out of here?

Well... [chuckles]

Well, legally, sure.�[chuckles]

[Bundy] As the months and weeks wore on into spring,

I think that one opportunity after another passed,

and I became more and more impatient with myself.

I psyched, psyched, psyched myself up for weeks.

And literally, it took-- it took weeks.

I began jumping off the top bunk in my cell in the Garfield County jail.

Jumping again and again and again off the top bunk to the floor

to strengthen my legs for the impact.

I measured, mentally measured the distance

from the corner of the courthouse to the alley

and from the alley to the riverbed and from the riverbed to the mountains.

And I measured my cell and I ran those distances.

I ran those distances again and again.

I practiced how rapidly I could change�my clothes

from my courtroom attire to my shorts, and...

I, uh, got a haircut...

so that I had a different appearance.

Finally I stood right before it.

I hesitated.

You cannot believe the thoughts that flipped through my mind.

I could be free.

The windows were open and the fresh air is blowing through and the sky was blue.

And I said, "I'm ready to go,"

and I walked�to the window and jumped out. [laughs]

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