Original subtitles

If we traveled back to March of 2020,

when COVID-19 changed life

as any of us had known it,

no one could've predicted all we have learned

and all we have lost since then.

We are certainly in a different environment.

And now, over a year later,

with vaccines widely available,

family and friends reuniting, and children back to schools,

there are moments when it can seem

like nothing but a bad dream.

But one unknown

still left to be reckoned with

is the more long-term effects

on our collective psyche.

That's why I'm so glad to have the opportunity

to speak with Dr. Paul Weston.

He's a successful author with a host of indebted patients

from his former private practice,

and now, he's become one of the most trusted sources

of insight into modern American psychology.

So let's go to Dr. Weston

from the 32nd International Congress of Psychology...

Paul, hi! It's Brooke. Um...

(clears throat) I got your messages,

and I've been meaning to call you back,

uh, but my work schedule has been intense.

I don't have to tell you.

I... I never know if you're home in New York

or traveling, but I would love

to find a moment to catch up.

But, just so you know, I'm good.

Really am. Busy, but good.

Uh, but call me any time. Yeah?

If I can pick up, I will.

Give my best to Corina,

and I hope you're well.

(light piano music playing)

♪ ♪

(sighs)

I have to tell you that I...

-I've been worried. -Oh.

-About what? -You.

(scoffs) Oh.

Mm-hm. At the end of our last session,

you seemed despondent.

Well, I'm sorry. (exhales)

I'm not asking for an apology.

Okay, well, I'm not sorry.

Hey, my Bentley got fixed.

-Did it? -Mm-hmm. They detailed her and everything.

Daddy's mechanics did such a good job.

It's like she was never in an accident.

-She's like good as new. -Laila...

Actually, what kind of car do you drive?

Let, let, let me guess, let me guess. Like, you're probably

a Volvo person.

You know, all like, "safety first,"

and like, "vanilla's like my favorite flavor."

No? Audi?

Miss I-Love-Rihanna- and-Potato-Leek-Soup?

A Mini Cooper? I mean...

-I could see it. -I drive a Prius.

Ooh...

So, how many times have people tried to hop in the backseat,

thinking it was a, uh, an Uber?

-Four. -Whoa!

-(laughs) -What?

Now, can we get back

to talking about our last session together?

-What about it? -Well, you said

that you didn't think you could ever be happy,

and then you got lost in your phone.

-Oh, I wasn't lost. -Oh, okay.

Rephrase.

It seemed like you were having a tough moment,

and you felt compelled to reach out to Cara.

Was she able to be there for you, give you what you need?

-Of course she did. -I'm glad.

(scoffs) Why?

Believe it or not,

I care about you, Laila.

(laughs)

(sighs) That's like the gayest shit you've ever said.

Thank you.

Is Cara some sort of...

refuge for you?

Refuge? Like I'm an endangered animal?

Have you noticed you tend to pick apart my words

when I ask you something you don't want to talk about?

Well, I have no problem talking about Cara.

But you seem to have a problem talking about you.

(sighs)

-Cara and I met at the same summer camp two years ago. -Sleep-away?

(scoffs) No.

Church camp.

I went about eight years in a row.

-That's a lot of summers. -I didn't want to go back for the ninth,

but it wasn't really my choice. I got to be a CIT though.

"Counselor in training."

Did you like having more responsibility?

Laila: I liked having more freedom.

Because when I met Cara...

Okay, so the campers are split into two groups.

The White Group was the youngest, like...

Jesus at Christmas.

And the Gold Group was the oldest,

like Jesus at Easter.

And Cara was a Gold camper, which is basically a CIT,

so she was a camper, but not, you know?

-Sure. -We couldn't hang out much at camp,

so... (laughs)

so we figured out how to escape and

go to this Walgreens a few blocks away

to buy snacks. And we'd just, like,

sit in the parking lot and talk.

What would you talk about?

Literally everything. Like TV,

music, books that we liked. I mean,

we were both obsessed with "An Ember in the Ashes"

at the time. But, um, yeah.

Clothes, hair, makeup.

-I see. -But it wasn't like

all like superficial stuff all the time though.

Sometimes, we talked about God.

Like if we truly believed.

And do you believe? In God?

Oh, um...

I mean, it's like complicated.

I'm pretty good with complicated.

Well, okay, Humble.

Cara and I believe that there's a god but not, like,

some white guy with white hair, you know?

We're more spiritual.

We both like the culture of church, of Black church,

like the music and the clothes and...

Yeah, the feeling when everyone's excited about a sermon.

But we like religions in general.

Cara is obsessed with Egypt, so when we found out

that there were mummies in Peru, I mean, we got super into that.

-Why? -Well,

the Inca kept their mummies around for like generations.

They believed that there was like this difference

between biological death, like the,

you know, dying and becoming a mummy part,

and social death, which didn't happen until their descendants,

like, forgot about them.

So they didn't always keep their mummies in their tombs.

They like brought them out to do stuff.

Their family would go to them for advice, or they'd attend,

like, marriage ceremonies and get danced around even.

They just had this invisible strength

that everyone believed in.

I don't know, it's just...

It's cool.

So...

it's another life, in a way.

Sort of. Yeah.

But, without the pain.

Do you think that life is painful?

Um...

I don't know if I like wanna talk about that kind of stuff.

Brooke: Okay.

Wait, really?

Really.

(sighs)

-I hate that. -What?

When you like don't make me do stuff.

Brooke: You want to hightail it 4,000 miles

to get away from your grandmother

who you think is too controlling.

It's probably not smart for me to

operate in the same way, right?

Yeah, but, like, I don't know what to do in here.

I don't know how to do "this."

But you're doing it. This is it.

-Jeez, like I need you to patronize me, too? -What do you need, Laila?

-Nothing! -Then why do you keep coming back?

Because of my grand--

Because like if it helps my grandma get off my back

about Cara, then I'll do it. I love her.

Laila, what do you think love is?

I... don't know. I've never like looked it up.

Doesn't mean you don't know what it means to you.

-Yeah, well, you shouldn't use a double negative. -Laila...

You're doing it again.

I know.

(sighs) So I know what love isn't,

but I know that that's not the way

you're supposed to define things.

Well, I wasn't asking for a definition.

So, love isn't...

-giving someone a present. -Why not?

Well, because that makes you feel good.

It doesn't make someone else feel good.

Sometimes it does.

I like getting presents.

Yeah, but giving someone something isn't the same

as loving them, I don't think.

-No? -Well, no.

My dad gives me everything,

and that doesn't mean he loves me.

It just means that he feels bad

about not spending time with me.

And worrying about someone all the time, too,

like my grandma does. That's not loving someone either.

Why not?

Well because hoping something bad doesn't happen

isn't the same as hoping something good will happen.

So, is loving someone hoping that

good things are going to happen to them?

-I guess not. -So...

what is love?

Um...

Mm, I don't know. Not doing anything?

I-I don't mean not doing anything.

I just mean it's not, like,

fixing or-or guiding or...

I don't know! It-it's like watching or--

I mean, that sounds creepy, but it's like...

-Noticing. -Noticing what?

Laila: Well, everything.

It's knowing what she wants without her having to say it.

It's not about, I don't know,

getting her the mocha Frappuccino.

It's about knowing the fact that she likes the mocha Frappuccino,

or whatever the soul-level equivalent

to a mocha Frappuccino is. I mean, I could be wrong,

but, in a way,

love isn't complicated. It's...

I don't know, just like...

(sighs)

paying attention.

And do you mean physical attention?

Um...

-that's not what I was talking about. -Okay, but does it?

Why would you, like-- why would you ask?

Because I think

physical intimacy

is an important aspect to committed,

healthy relationships.

Yes, I know what sex is.

I'm well aware of that.

No, I-I'm not talking about--

Your sex addiction.

Yeah...

Sorry about that. I was just trying to--

Test me.

I get it.

I must've sounded ridiculous, didn't I?

I had my doubts, Laila. (chuckles)

But,

I knew you were trying to tell me something.

(sighs)

So...

I don't know. Can we like talk about...

sex in here?

Like, actually talk about it?

There's little I haven't heard on the subject.

And are other people disappointed in it, too?

Are you disappointed in it?

I guess I just have always wanted it

to be more than what it is.

Brooke: Tell me about that.

I mean, I've had sex. Like...

three boys, and one girl.

When things start really happening, I just...

I kind of start thinking about the wrong stuff.

"Wrong stuff" how? In what way?

I guess I would just start, like, thinking about

my grandma and, like, how...

pissed off she'd be if she knew.

Do you think that's like fucked up?

I think it...

that girls and women

have been conditioned to not be present

in their bodies during sex.

What do you mean?

Society, in general, places importance

on female-identified bodies looking good

during a sexual encounter.

How we feel during a sexual encounter is...

secondary. It...

creates a pervasive dissociative effect,

and that's how you go into your mind with your grandma

and not stay

in the moment, in your body.

You-you ever heard people talk about female orgasm, right?

Yeah. Like you shouldn't expect it to happen every time.

Exactly. It's fickle.

Uh, female sexuality

is mysterious.

Women are unknowable.

Making us come is arduous.

Locating the clitoris is impossible.

You know, that's all broadcast out

to every gender.

Women's feelings are so difficult to determine,

it's not even worth the effort.

I don't believe in any of that.

N-- It's not about belief--

No, no, no. I like my body. I'm not scared of it. And...

And when I'm with Cara, it's not about...

our bodies. It's about our souls, you know?

I wouldn't... I'm able to be with her, and...

I mean, like, truly be together. I just want it to be...

I mean, I don't know. I just-- I'm happy when I'm with her.

I love her more than anyone I've ever met, and honestly? Like,

I've never even kissed the girl.

(sighs)

Hm.

But, I think about that kiss a lot.

I've even told her about our first kiss

without her even knowing.

It sounded like a story that we were writing together,

but for me, it was...

it was our story.

I'd like to hear it.

Well, we're taking that train I told you about.

From Cusco to Machu Picchu.

(sighs) Mm. And...

we're passing by

this rushing river and,

I mean, these incredible mountain vistas.

♪ ♪

(brief chuckle)

And all of a sudden, we realize

that we're just looking at one another.

I raise my hand and...

trace the curve of her neck.

And her lips.

(chuckles)

And the train rocks and...

we move closer and...

it rocks again, and...

it happens.

(quiet sigh)

We're eternal.

-Laila? -Hm?

When you describe the kiss,

what are you feeling?

Uh, I don't know. I'm just, like,

thinking about it.

In your body, as you sit here,

what do you feel?

Laila: Um... tingly?

My fingers. (laughs) My face. I-I don't know.

You-you, like, pulled me out of it,

and now I'm just back sitting in this room with you.

Have you ever heard of somatic therapy, Laila?

Laila: Well, soma means "body" in Latin.

Brooke: It's a body-centered therapy.

Looks at the mind-body relationship,

especially as it relates to trauma.

Okay. Cool.

I'm not an expert, but I can't help feeling this...

this pull to keep you grounded.

In the present,

in your body,

in this room.

Why?

Brooke: I'm still trying to figure that out for myself.

So you, like, don't know everything?

I told you. (laughs)

But, I do think

something important is here, Laila.

And I think it somehow ties

to the discipline

you experienced from your grandmother,

and your tendency towards fantasy,

your constant desire to escape.

Can I just like not care about any of that stuff?

-Any of what? -Like...

(sighs) Like physical stuff, body stuff,

like corporeal stuff,

as you would say it.

Like arms, legs, tits. Like,

what does it even mean, you know?

Our body doesn't always tell the true story about who we are.

I don't know, I... if I always feel like a girl.

There's more to me than that. I don't know if it's, you know,

boy either, but...

(sighs) You know when you're standing

in front of a foggy mirror, and you just can't, like...

find yourself?

Well, that's what I was describing like sex as.

I just feel like...

like there's probably something more.

And not just bodies. Like...

even things.

Like cars or clothes. Like, none of that tells the truth

about who we are.

Like the way I dress. Like my hair, my nails, like...

That's what makes grandma happy. It doesn't show

the truth inside of me, you know?

Honestly, I'm just starting to get to the point where I...

don't need like physical things anymore.

-What do you mean? -Like everything! My entire life,

ever since being here last week, I'm realizing that

I don't need physical things, so I'm getting rid of it.

I'm getting rid of all of it. I'm-I'm selling it.

-You're selling your-- -Yes! My shoes, my clothes, my bags! Like...

Can I interest you in a Chanel Boy bag?

Instant classic, named after Coco's first love.

Tempting.

(scoffs)

(sighs)

I just want, like,

Cara and I to be comfortable

living in Peru for a while.

Like, eventually, yeah.

I'll get a job translating for someone into English.

I'll work at a restaurant, a bar,

but when we first get there, I just want it to be like...

about exploring. About hiking. About Machu Picchu.

-About taking it in, taking each other in. -Laila...

I have to tell you, I'm concerned.

About what?

The way you talk about leaving, it's just...

so much fantasy language.

The happily-ever-after of it all.

-Yeah, I'm excited, so what? -And that's fine.

And I know you and Cara are close,

but you are two individuals

with different hopes and needs.

What if your Machu Picchu

isn't Cara's Machu Picchu?

-What happens then? -No, not this again.

"You two are different. Cara's 15, you're 18."

Brooke: I don't think that's where I was going with my question,

Laila, but what happens if things don't go

exactly as you...

Do you remember the fantasy

you told me about saving your grandmother?

Throwing her in the Escalade and taking out

-whoever's in your path who might-- -Yes. Yes.

And do you see that scenario going exactly as you imagine it?

No, of course not!

Look, the whole like Peru thing,

it doesn't have to be like perfect.

And how will you feel if it's not?

How should I know?

Imagine it. You're very good at that.

Wow, you're really starting to piss me off.

-Thank you for telling me-- -Goddammit! You're supposed

to hit me when I say shit like that, not thank me!

Your feelings are valid, whatever they are.

Except for the ones where Cara and I are both in Peru?

I promised you that I would always be honest with you,

and I am not going to break that trust now.

Then fine! Just say it! Say it all then!

If you think I have so much to say,

I'd prefer you say it.

What? That I'm being reckless? Impulsive?

That I'm giving everything up for some grand, impossible idea?

That I'm being immature? Well, yeah!

Maybe I am! Maybe that's just exactly

what I fucking want to be!

(panting)

Like, who the fuck wants to grow up and buy a house and pay bills

and like do laundry? Like,

who even knows how to do any of that?

(sighs) Like, I learned how to tie my shoes

when I was like 11. 11!

Like, I can't do anything! Do you realize that?

I'm not some self-made boss-ass bitch like you.

I am fucking useless!

(shaky breathing)

Like, if you put a book in front of me,

I'm gonna read it. If you give me an essay,

I'll fucking write it. But ask me what side of the car

my gas tank is on, I have no idea!

My dad takes it and fills it up at the dealership

whenever it gets low. Like,

I am a joke! Do you realize that?

These hands, they honestly do not do shit!

But up here?

I mean, of course, like, I have some

hopeful dream towards my future.

At least it's one where I can actually

do something!

If not, I'm just sitting in my dorm room at Berkeley,

texting my girlfriend in code,

while my grandma is off in the communal living area,

making Top Ramen for us, and if that's the fucking case...

Dr. Taylor, then I'd rather die!

(quiet exhale)

Thank you for telling me that.

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪