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We are about 4 miles away
from where Kevin Lee was murdered.

As you can see, it's
a very rural area.

It's very quiet.

His body was found here in the ditch.

He was face down roughly
where that tire is.

His buttocks and his
legs were exposed.

And he was wearing a
woman's cocktail dress.

Joanne Dennehy shocked the nation

after going on a 10 day
killing spree in March 2013.

You've got a female serial
killer who's also a mother.

And that is rare.

You think you know that
person, but actually you don't.

But I didn't expect murder.

Dennehy stored his
body in a wheelie bin

before dumping it.

The fact that they're all
male victims is not random.

She wanted men.

There's a fantasy there,
being the one with the power.

The one with the control.

Joanne Dennehy was
driven by a blood lust.

This was a woman
who enjoyed killing.

She has become
one of Britain's

most notorious female killers.

It still remains one of
the most shocking crimes

that has ever been committed
by a woman in this country.

She started
stabbing me in the chest.

I fell to the ground.

And as I lay there, I thought,

this is where I'm going to die.

It's absolutely the right thing
that she won't come out of prison.

In my view, she is
truly a psychopath.

So many horrible men and women

out there have committed
terrible crimes.

But she stands head and
shoulders above the rest of them.

Joanne Dennehy was just pure evil.

She belongs in hell.

May she rot in hell.

What made her change into somebody

who wants to go around
stabbing men to death?

What compels her to do that?

What is going through
her head to do that?

She wants the world
to be scared of her.

"I've done many
things to many people.

But I do not regret killing them."

And then she's signed it with a star.

Three men murdered.

Their bodies dumped in two ditches
near Peterborough in March 2013.

And one woman, Joanna Dennehy,

admitted stabbing them all to death.

In my investigations
of many, many murders,

and many, many murderers,
Joanna Dennehy is the most cold,

callous, calculated,
manipulative offender

that I've ever had to deal with.

My work involves looking
at the childhood of an individual.

Looking at their early
years environment

and what's happened
in that environment

to lead them to the place
that they're at now.

I think it's important
that we understand

where criminal behaviours come from.

If we don't understand
the trajectories

that lead people towards crime,

how can we ever prevent this
happening again in society?

Joanne was born in St. Albans
in Hertfordshire in 1982.

She grew up in Harpenden,

which is a leafy, lovely, friendly,

quite expensive middle-class area.

Her father was quite a strict
disciplinarian to a point.

Her mother was a
doting loving mother.

The school Joanne went to
is a really lovely school.

She played lots of sport.

She was in the netball team.

She learned musical instruments.

Her family had really
high hopes for her.

They were hoping that she
would go on to university

and maybe even pursue
law as a career.

She had, by all accounts,
a very normal childhood.

She was very much that
blonde, blue eyed, beautiful,

you know, happy go lucky girl.

And at what point did she turn?

We tend to have this
age-old debate in criminology

as to whether
individuals are born evil.

The reality of the matter
is there's no killing gene.

A child's upbringing is fundamental
to who they become as an adult.

And in this case, there could
have been significant trauma

in her childhood for
her to have developed

into the person that she's been.

And that's not to say that
her family even knew about it.

Their experience might have
been of a happy childhood.

But her experience clearly was not.

And that's how she's
ended up maturing

into the person that
she has matured into.

Joanne started using drugs
and alcohol when she was 13.

She fell in with some fairground
workers that came to her town.

And she started shoplifting,
drinking alcohol,

and taking heavy drugs with them.

A young vulnerable schoolgirl.

Effectively, she's being
groomed by these men.

Taking drugs and alcohol will
damage the brain at any age.

But when the brain is
developing and evolving,

it can cause irreparable damage.

She started bunking off school.

And that's when things started
to take a turn for the worse.

She suddenly became out of control.

So her parents tried to rein her in.

And the more they
tried to rein her in,

the more out of control that she got.

She rebelled.

It was only within a
space of a couple of years

that she'd gone from allegedly
being a very happy child,

everything being
quite calm and stable

and functional at
home to then suddenly,

getting involved
with drink and drugs,

spending time and
associating with older people

who were not a healthy
influence on her.

When she was 15,
she entered into a relationship

with a man who was five years
older than her at the time.

I'm John Treanor,

and I was in a relationship
with Joanna Dennehy

for about 10, 11 years.

I met Jo in 1997.

It was my dog.

The dog drew her over.

I had a lovely German
shepherd called Bonnie.

And I used to take her
up to the park each day.

Play football. Throw sticks.

As a teenager, Joanne was bright.

And she was very confident
and very outgoing,

whereas John was a little bit
more reserved and introverted.

And actually, those
qualities that Joanne had

of being the outgoing,
extroverted person

was what drew him to her.

She was bubbly. Funny.

I would've pretty much
done anything for her.

You know what I mean?

Her parents were really
against her being with John.

They didn't like her going out with
somebody five years older than her.

They thought that he was
a bad influence on her.

They accepted me
for a little while.

Well, put up with me, shall we say.

I was never good enough
for their daughter.

I think it's significant
that she's entered

into a relationship
with an older man.

Why was she seeking
out a relationship

with someone older than her?

I think she was probably
looking for safety, security.

Jo didn't want to be at home
anymore with her mum and dad.

She felt restricted.

So that's how we ended up homeless.

That was probably about a year.

Sleeping in forests and
tents and train stations.

Trying to make sure that we were fed.

Somewhere to sleep.

I hated it.

But she loved it.

I just wanted to be
in somewhere secure.

That was just my drive.

I didn't want to be
doing what we were doing.

It's not me.

The escape, the
living on floorboards,

the stealing,
the shoplifting for booze

was natural to her by now
because she'd been led astray

by these fairground workers.

I found being homeless
very, very difficult.

But for her, it wasn't.

The freedom of just doing
what she wanted to do.

Like, she didn't have
to conform to anybody.

And I guess that's what it was.

In 2013, I was a
detective superintendent.

And I was the head of the major crime
unit for Cambridgeshire Constabulary.

My first involvement
with this case occurred

on the 29th of March.

I was at home in the evening.

I had a phone call from
one of my senior detectives

to say that some uniform
colleagues had referred a missing

from home inquiry to him

because there was some
suspicious circumstances.

Kevin Lee was a married man.

Resident of Peterborough.

He ran a business known as Quick Let,

which in essence was a
number of properties.

And he used to rent
those to people largely

who had their rent paid
by the benefits system.

Kevin Lee's family were concerned

because he didn't return
home when he was expected to.

So they went out looking for him.

They went to Rolleston Garth,

where they knew that
Quick Let had a property.

And whilst there, one of
the family members saw

what they thought was Kevin's
car leave the area at speed.

They tried to follow it.

They lost it at some traffic lights.

And about 25 minutes later,
that car was reported burning

on a drove just outside of
Yaxley, near Peterborough.

Many cars that are set on fire
are set on fire by criminals

because they've been
involved in activity

and they want to destroy any
forensic evidence associated with it.

Uniformed police officers
started to make some inquiries

in relation to his
last known movements.

That obviously took
them to Rolleston Garth.

So they secured entry
to those premises.

And immediately were concerned

because they did find some
blood spots within the property.

As a result, preserved that
particular property as a crime scene.

On the morning of Saturday,
the 30th of March,

a man walking his dog on
Middle Road in Newburgh,

a remote village on the
north side of Peterborough,

discovered a body in a
ditch next to some farmland.

The identity of the individual

in the ditch wasn't
immediately apparent.

But obviously, there were some
inquiries going on to find Kevin Lee.

So there was one eye on the fact

that this individual
could have been Kevin.

So we are in Middle
Road in Newborough.

As you can see, it's
a very rural area.

It's very quiet.

And for that reason, I
suspect it was the ideal site

for them to deposit a body.

The body was found here in the ditch.

He was faced down roughly
where that tyre is.

His buttocks and his
legs were exposed.

And he was wearing a
woman's cocktail dress.

Once the body was
recovered from Newburgh

and identified as Kevin Lee,
then we clearly were

in the realms of a
murder investigation.

It is not just a murder
and a body being dumped.

There's a lot more at play there.

A man put in a dress.

The way he was positioned.

The way he was left humiliated,

with the dress pulled up
and his bottom on show.

Ultimately, there's a hugely
psychological component

to that murder.

I would imagine a police officer
will be terrified at that

and where that's going to end.

In 1999, when Joanne was just 17,

she and John moved in together
in a council flat in Milton Keynes.

And it was here that
she fell pregnant

with their first child.

On the surface, it looked
like she was starting

to build a life for herself.

Starting to build a family.

Things looked okay.

Me personally, I've always
wanted to be "2point4 Children."

You know what I mean?

Both have a job. Have holidays.

That was me.

We spoke about it.

And I think that was her as well.

But it wasn't real.

I think she was quite
good at feeding me crap.

And I swallowed it.

I was quite gullible,
to be perfectly honest.

When she was pregnant
with her first child,

Joanne actually seemed
to turn a corner.

She stopped the
drinking and the drugs.

And it seemed that she was
really making an effort

to turn her life around
for her future child.

Once she was born,
it became apparent

that I'm the sole
carer doing everything,

while she does what she wants to do.

It started to go downhill
really quite quickly.

It does speak to the
fact that she's so consumed

with what's going on in her own mind.

I wonder if there's
even space in there

to accommodate the needs
of an infant, really.

I mean, she's 17 years old.

I don't think she was able to.

She's too busy trying
to survive herself.

I was more than happy
to bring up my daughter.

You know, it's like you go out
and do what you need to do.

And I will make sure
that these are good.

Because she didn't have
that want to do that,

if that makes sense.

A lot of people
have said she seemed

to lack a maternal instinct
and didn't have that warm,

compassionate care that a mother
really is expected to have.

She was playful.

Sometimes too playful, I thought.

Like, please, don't throw
them on the sofa like that.

She was still drinking.

Like, she would wake
up in the morning,

still needing to have
her beers and whatnot.

It was all action for her.

When my daughter was younger,

she would've seen it as the
only mother time she's getting.

And the things that she did
with her were not correct.

So she would've seen it as fun.

I didn't.

It sounds more like a sibling
relationship, doesn't it,

than a mother-child relationship.

She's emotionally immature, you know.

And that's what this demonstrates.

After the birth of
her first daughter,

Joanne quickly returned
to her old ways.

She began drinking again.

And, really, it seemed
like she lost interest

in being a mother.

It's quite possible she
didn't have the the best

of times as a young child,

for whatever reason that might
have been, that having a baby

of her own would've
been triggering for her.

If she's been taking a
lot of drink and drugs

for the previous four years,
from the age of 13,

she won't have been
processing anything healthily.

So she'll have had four
years of experiences,

and who knows what kind
of experiences they were,

with the types of people
that she was around,

that she also hasn't processed.

So then she stops drinking.

And during the pregnancy,
she would've had all

of these things popping
back up in her mind.

And naturally, the first
thing she would want

to do after her pregnancy is

to block these things
out as soon as she could.

And that's why she's gone
back to the drink and drugs.

In a bid to get their
relationship back on track

and really make things
work between them,

Joanne and John actually moved away
from Milton Keynes in 2001.

We moved to King's Lynn.

And she got a job working the land,

picking the veg and stuff,

while I did looking
after my daughter.

It was going all right
for the first few weeks.

And then she started
coming home without wages.

And she started coming
home really late.

And then not for the night.

And it was all drink fueled.

And she started being
paid in alcohol.

She turned up on one
of the days from work.

She walked through the
door absolutely smashed

out of her face with
two bottles of vodka

and some stolen clothes and
stuff that she'd been paid in.

And I'm like, well, this isn't
going to feed my daughter.

It's only feeding you.

And it kind of led to
a bit of an argument.

And she just went off it

and smashed the bottle
of vodka in the kitchen

while we were in there.

And off she went
and I didn't see her again.

I think it's hard
for someone like her

to be a loving mother and partner

because she's too
lost in her own chaos.

You know, the drug addictions,

what's going on in her own mind.

She hasn't got the capacity to think
about the needs of others.

She can barely look after herself.

Joanne then
disappeared for 18 months.

Didn't see her daughter.

I didn't know where she was at all.

Within that time,
Joanna was arrested

for a violent, vicious, assault.

She ended up in prison

and then sectioned under
the Mental Health Act.

And she was diagnosed

as having a very serious
personality disorder.

Joanne was diagnosed with

antisocial psychopathic
personality disorder.

People with antisocial
personality disorder

don't care about society's rules.

They tend to be quite prevalent

with individuals
that are quite angry,

that are full of aggression,

that display impulsive behavior.

People with psychopathic
personalities tend

to have impaired empathy and remorse.

They tend to externalize
any accountability.

They're bold, disinhibited,
and egocentric.

And if you have a
sensitive brain chemistry

and you are already dysregulated

and already emotionally unstable,

anything that has the capacity

to affect your mood will
have a destabilising effect.

Therefore, drink and
drugs in somebody

with a disorder like
Joanne's is likely

to have more of an effect on them

than it would on somebody who
doesn't have that diagnosis.

Towards the end of that 18
months, I got a letter sent.

I ignored it.

Said I didn't want it.

A few weeks later, there's
another one turned up.

So I thought, "Oh, all right,
I'll open it."

And it was basically
saying she's in prison.

And she's on tablets to help
with this, this, and this.

Would I come and see her?

So I went and visited her.

When she came out of prison,

Joanne was begging
John to take her back.

And he ended up agreeing

and giving the relationship
with her another go.

I just wanted my
daughter to have a mother.

So we got her back to normal.

It was relatively normal for a year.

And then we were pregnant.

And honestly, I will never,
ever, ever forget her

coming out of the doctors'
and storming straight past me

with the worst look on her face.

Like, "I'm pregnant" and stormed off.

You know, she wanted five
kids in that period of normal.

She's like, "Oh, we
should have five kids."

Blah, blah, blah.

So we talked about it
and then she found out

and it was like the
whole world had ended.

And for me, I'm like, I'm ecstatic.

And it's hard to be happy
when the other person's not.

Despite her misgivings
about falling pregnant again,

Joanne gave up the
drink and the drugs.

And she tried really hard to
stay as healthy as possible

and provide the best chance
for her second daughter.

However, it wasn't that long

after her second daughter
was born that actually,

Joanne was back to
her old ways again.

She got invited to a party
on a Sunday for the little kiddies.

And she hadn't drunk for, oh God,

so she'd done the
nine months pregnancy

and probably about seven or
eight months of Saff being born.

And she went to this
party and it all changed.

Because she went and had a drink.

And it just went downhill
straight away from that moment.

Often, people with
personality disorder

have self-defeating characteristics,

where even if life seems to
be going relatively stable,

they will act in ways to derail that.

She had all the freedom
to go and better herself.

But actually, she was
just damaging herself.

Probably the best
thing she's ever done

for both of the children is not drink

and smoke while she was pregnant.

But she couldn't do
it once they come out.

She couldn't just be their
mum and do it normally.

It wasn't in her.

Drink, the alcohol,
it changes people.

That's what changed her, for sure.

The bingeing of it.

The amount she would consume.

It would ruin anyone.

She wasn't really
interested in being a mum.

It wasn't exciting enough for her.

She was much more
interested in going out

and doing her own thing

and seeking excitement all the time.

I mean, I've heard all sorts.

Like, she's having sex
with two men in a graveyard

or she's pummeled somebody's
head off a kerb at a pub

or all sorts of stuff.

And, yeah. Self-harming.

I caught her going into my bathroom
and she'd done one up her arm.

And I'm like, "What the
hell are you doing?"

Self-harm, in its
most serious forms,

like Joanne's self-harm was,

usually means that someone's dealing

with internal rage and pain
that is absolutely intolerable.

And they just cannot deal with it.

And they inflict the
pain back on themselves.

You can't tell what
somebody's thinking.

You don't know where they're going.

You're in a relationship.

You think you know that person,
but actually, you don't.

As much as she puts on the bravado

of being this really
strong, scary person,

I think she's actually quite
vulnerable underneath it all.

Because a strong person who
doesn't care about anything

wouldn't feel the need
to cut themselves.

Wouldn't feel the need to obliterate
themselves with drink and drugs.

It just kind of
progressed and got worse.

The things that she
did as time went on.

But I didn't expect murder.

The background inquiries
that were conducted

in relation to Kevin's
life did establish

that he had been in
a sexual relationship

with Joanna Dennehy for some
months prior to his death.

Kevin Lee was last seen alive

by an associate of his
near to Rolleston Garth.

During that interaction,

Kevin Lee told this individual
that Dennehy wanted him

to dress up in a woman's
dress as she'd fantasised

about raping a man
dressed in that way.

The longer that
investigation went on,

the more Joanne came to the fore.

This was kind of galvanized
by phone data work,

which did identify some interaction

between Kevin Lee's phone
and Joanne Dennehy's phone.

But also, that's when
Gary Stretch started

to feature prominently as well.

Gary Stretch is a very
distinctive individual.

He's a very large man.
He's seven foot three.

He was somebody who had a very
extensive criminal history.

Largely associated with
offenses of dishonesty.

Some of violence.

He was a burglar.

And not a very successful
burglar at that.

Because, as one of the
police officers told me,

that when he would
climb through a window,

his feet would follow
about 10 minutes later.

He has got an extremely low IQ.

And he falls in with Joanne Dennehy.

And she manipulates Gary Stretch.

And he becomes her minder.

Her protector.

Joanne Dennehy and Gary
Stretch were identified

as key individuals that
we wanted to speak to

in relation to Kevin Lee's death.

As a consequence,
on Sunday the 31st of March,

officers went to an address
in Bifield in Autumn Gold Hay.

This is the address which we believe

that Joanne Dennehy
had been living at.

By the time police got to
the house, Joanne wasn't there.

The property was searched.

And in the rear garden,

there was a bloodstained mattress

that was found and recovered.

Whilst at Bifield,
officers came across

another resident there
by the name of Leslie Layton.

He said that he knew Joanne Dennehy.

But he hadn't seen her for
some considerable time.

A third resident by the
name of John Chapman,

who we established was
living at the address,

couldn't be located.

By 2009, Joanne and John were
actually living separately.

And Joanne continued with the
drinking and the drug-taking.

But even though she wasn't
living with her daughters,

her behavior still
impacted the family.

I cared about her.

I didn't like seeing the
self-destruct button.

I hated it.

More so because where we lived,

we were walking around and
my daughters were seeing it.

Seeing the level of
how low she had got.

So it wasn't love then? No.

For the last year of us being
in the same vicinity, it wasn't love.

It was more I was trying
to help her constantly.

I saw her in a park.

And she was wearing a
pair of man's shoes.

And she stunk.

I took her back to mine and said,
"Go get yourself a bath.

And I took her up to town.

I bought her some of the
jeans and a top and a jumper.

And just made her feel
normal for five minutes.

Nobody was there
dealing with it but me.

You know, everybody's
got a finger to point.

But, actually, I was
the one being destroyed.

It wasn't the other way around.

I gave it to the last bit

until I couldn't see my
children take no more

of what they were seeing, hearing.

I've got social services on my back,

telling me I've got
to make a decision

when she turns up,
to opening the door.

Is she drunk? High?

Is she able to come in?

And she's out of her face on alcohol.

When I'm like, no, you can't come in,

physical abuse would be there.

Putting my head into the wall.

And the worst bit, I
think, is the mental side.

It strips you of everything.

Honestly, my head was to the floor.

It was that bad.

It makes me shake inside
because it was horrible.

The final straw for John was
when Joanne turned up at the house

with a knife that
she'd kept in her boot.

She just sat on the
floor, pulled a knife out,

and just said, "I could
just kill somebody."

And she had pins all in
her legs and her arms.

And it was all blood everywhere.

And she'd brought a jar of
5p's to try and contribute,

which she'd stolen from somewhere.

And she was off her face as well.

And when I sit here now,

it's like should I
have rang somebody?

But I was just more focused on

not letting her get
near them children.

Please, I just want
you out of my house.

I get goosebumps.

It goes all through me
and it's horrible.

John made the decision that he had

to get his daughters as far
away from Joanne as possible.

I said, look, I'm
actually going today.

I'm taking the kids
and we're off.

There was no, please don't go,
none of that.

I think she kind of had to accept it.

Despite our best efforts,

we were unable, at that early stage,

to be able to locate
Stretch and Dennehy.

We were very, very
concerned for public safety,

given the fact that we felt they
were involved in Kevin's murder.

And we felt that the best way
to be able to identify them

was to call for public assistance.

So photographs of Stretch and Dennehy

with their descriptions
was released to the media.

Police are appealing for
help in tracing two people

in connection with the murder
of a man in Peterborough.

The body of Kevin Lee, who was 44,

was found close to the A16

in Newborough near
Peterborough on Saturday.

He'd died from stab wounds.

As a result of the media release,

we had a phone call from a
police officer in Norfolk,

who'd gone to an
offense of making off

without payment from
a petrol station.

And at that location, had
identified two individuals

that fitted the description
of Stretch and Dennehy.

We were notified

and as a result of that
particular drive off,

we were able to establish
the index number of the car

that they were using.

A green Vauxhall Astra.

So that was a significant
breakthrough for us.

It enabled us to use the ANPR network

around the country to try
and locate the vehicle.

Whilst Stretch and Dennehy
were being tracked down,

we were doing a lot of phone work.

And we established that a phone

that we could attribute to John
Chapman was also interacting

with those that we knew were
being used by Stretch and Dennehy.

The phone was also interacting

with a phone belonging
to Leslie Layton as well.

We also knew at that stage that
the blood staining on the mattress

was attributable to John Chapman.

So we were keeping an open mind

but John Chapman sat in the category
of either potential suspect

or potentially another victim.

The ANPR work that we did established

that Stretch and Dennehy
may have been traveling

in the general direction of Hereford.

And some background work
on Stretch identified

that he did have at least
one associate in that area.

So a phone call was made
to West Mercia Police,

just to advise them that we were
looking for these two individuals

and that they may
soon be in their area.

After John Treanor fled
Joanne Dennehy in terror,

she was in and out of prison like
a rubber ball on an elastic band.

No respect for law and order.
No respect for her children.

No respect for John Treanor.
No respect for her parents.

She became totally antisocial.

She's mentally disintegrating.

Prison as a place of incarceration
for Dennehy clearly didn't work

because this is an
individual who bases her life

on greed, manipulation,
control, dominance, impulsivity.

And prison doesn't teach you

how to effectively
rehabilitate from these things.

If anything, during
her time in prison,

her behavior would've
accelerated and amplified.

And she would've used
her time in prison

to think about what she can
do in the outside world,

so as to be able to get her
fix and to satisfy her needs.

What happened with
Joanna in intervening years

before she really got
into serious trouble

is rather clouded in mystery.

My dad introduced Joanne to
our lives when I was about 12.

The first girlfriend, I think,
after my mum and dad's divorce.

And, yeah.

Just got a really like, cold feeling
about her straight away.

She didn't smile.

She wasn't warm and welcoming.

And she kind of like,
tainted our weekends

with my dad like, straight away.

The end of the relationship
of Danielle's parents

will have been a
confusing time for her.

And what she will have needed
would've been kindness,

nurturance, and guidance from any
figure that was within her life.

And Joanne just
wouldn't have been able

to offer that to Danielle.

My dad was a little
bit older than her.

And she was obviously
paying my dad attention.

He just wanted to be loved.

He didn't want to be alone.

And I think she saw his
kindness as such a weakness.

And she was like, I'm going to
take everything I can out of him.

Their relationship moved from like,

zero to a hundred
like, really quickly.

And she moved in pretty
much straight away.

So that just kind of
put such a dark cloud

over our like, childhood home.

She was supposedly meant
to be a step-mum figure.

But there was no motherly love
or instinct about her at all.

I feel like she was jealous,

which is so strange to
be jealous of a child.

But I think she just wanted
my dad's full attention.

You know, she was his only girl.

I don't think she'll have
seen Danielle as a stepdaughter.

I think she'll probably have
seen her more as a rival.

She was in the way
of Joanne being able

to have power and
control and ultimately,

monopolise the
attention of the father.

Any children in that relationship
will just have been incidentals

and seen as irrelevant
for her to engage with.

I don't think I ever had
two seconds alone with my dad.

She was just there all the time.

And she'd like, drink from
like, morning to night as well.

The empty bottles of vodka
would be sat on the side.

It just all of a sudden felt
like it was Joanna's house.

And we were like, the guests.

She never had really any
interactions with me.

But one day, she was like,

"Oh, do you want to
learn how to dance?"

And I was like, "She wants
to spend some time with me.

This is like, amazing.
Oh my god. She does like me."

And we were practicing
dancing for ages.

And she seemed to be really like,
excited about it.

And she was like,
"We're going to perform this

in front of your dad."

It wasn't until I got home
and showed my mum the dance

that I realized what she'd kind
of been trying to teach me.

It was very sexually like, explicit.

My mum was mortified.

Absolutely mortified.

The fact that she thinks this
is appropriate with a 13-year-old

suggests to me that she
has no understanding

of what is considered
appropriate sexual contact.

And no boundaries.

After a few years, my dad
finally saw her true colors

and ended the relationship with her.

She ended up sleeping with
one of my dad's friends

behind his back in
exchange for vodka.

So, yeah, he literally
chucked her out.

I was over the moon.

Like, absolutely over the
moon that I had my dad back.

But he was very angry and upset.

So it took me a while to start
building up the confidence

to go to my dad's on
the weekends again.

Although it was just him there,

her presence kind of
remained in the house,

which I look back now and
it makes me really sad.

Because I'd do anything

to have those weekends
back with my dad.

Joanne Dennehy first
became known to Kevin Lee

when she walked into
the Quick Let Office

in Peterborough in 2012,

looking to rent some accommodation.

She told them at that
time that she'd been

in prison for some violent offences.

But nevertheless, they were satisfied

that she would be somebody they could

offer some accommodation to.

And she became a tenant of theirs.

The area where we lived
was a close-knit community.

We always helped each other out,

or if someone new moved in,
we got to know them.

And if they needed any help,
we would always be there for them.

I was a neighbor of Joanne Dennehy.

And I was a friend of John Chapman.

Three tenants lived in there.

There was John Dennehy,
John Chapman, and Les Leighton.

You see.

As I point up to it.

That was Dennehy's
room where she slept.

John's bedroom was the
first floor at the back.

And that is Les Layton's room.

I lived in the house
at the end there.

John Chapman.

Quite well-decorated ex-Navy,
who's fallen on hard times,

and turned to drink and
became an alcoholic.

We had a nickname for him,
Uncle Albert.

Hearing all his naval
stories would just remind us

of Uncle Albert from
"Only Fools and Horses."

He and I to sit down and talk.

You know, hearing his stories,
it was just wonderful.

He was married to a
lovely woman called Anne.

And then she sadly passed away.

And he started drinking
because he couldn't cope.

When you've got that
addiction, it's hard.

Since Dennehy came out of prison,

Kevin Lee was not only her landlord,

the pair had become engaged
in an affair together.

So he was also her lover.

And he had used her
intimidating reputation

and look as an enforcer for him

to collect unpaid rent
and bills and debts.

She went around and spoke
to them, threatened them,

sometimes used violence to make
sure that he got his money.

Working as an enforcer for
Kevin Lee, I should imagine,

has given her a sense
of power and purpose.

I expect she'll have enjoyed it.

And, you know, the lack of empathy

that she allegedly has means

that it will not have
weighed heavy on her,

knowing that she was
doing this to people.

Les Layton said how
scared he was of Joanne.

John come in and he was shaking.

A bit tearful as well.

Saying that, "She's
gonna get rid of me.

She's gonna get rid of me."

And we just said, "Oh,
shut up, John," you know.

But if only we knew
then what we know now.

I was the superintendent
local policing commander.

It started, of course,
as a normal day.

I received a briefing from one
of my intelligence officers.

And there was a particular
item of interest in there.

We'd been contacted by
Cambridge Constabulary

to say that they were
in the very early stages

of what they believed to
be a murder investigation.

And they'd identified two people,

who they described as
being of interest to them.

One was Joanna Dennehy.

And the other was Gary Stretch.

And they were believed to be using
a particular green Astra vehicle.

Shortly after half past
three in the afternoon,

my detective chief
inspector came to me

and explained to me that there had

being a serious
incident on the street.

And one of my detective
inspectors came to me

and said, "Oh, boss,
just to let you know.

There's been a stabbing
on the street."

Of course, I responded
saying, "Yes, I know that."

And actually, it transpired
that my DI was explaining

to me there'd been a second stabbing.

A man in his 60s
was stabbed on West Faling Street.

10 minutes later, a second man
was stabbed on the footpath

between Golden Post
and the Belmont Estate.

He was in his 50s.

And, of course, then
your blood runs cold

and the hairs are on
the back of your neck.

This is a very, very rare
event for any city, really.

But especially for Hereford.

Only last week,

Hereford was named as the
safest place in Britain.

Now, these attacks have
left the community in shock.

To have two random knife attacks

on complete strangers
during broad daylight

in what was the school
holidays is very, very rare.

Your concern immediately is,

these are so random in nature.

What is the extent
of this going to be?

And how many more
attacks could there be?

The timescale between
the two was so short.

Of course, you work on the
assumption they must be linked.

But you have no basis other

than your gut instinct to
say that that's the case.

The ambulance service had
responded to the first victim,

who had described his attacker
as having a tattoo on her cheek.

The officer from the intelligence
department that I'd spoken

to earlier immediately
put two and two together.

Reflected on the content
of the morning briefing.

We have photographs
of those individuals.

And indeed, Joanna Dennehy
did have that tattoo.

The first victim,
Robin Bereza, was 63.

He's well known.

He'd been both a firefighter
and also a postman.

He was walking his dog in the
direction of his home address.

Joanna got out of the car

and stabbed Mr. Bereza in the back.

She then attacked him from the front.

And so vicious was her attack,

when Mr. Bereza raised
his arm to defend himself,

she actually ended up
breaking a bone in his arm.

Incredibly, he managed to find
his way to a home address,

which was when the alarm was raised.

Then they drive over the River Wye

to South Hereford to an
area around the Golden Post.

And John Rogers had
literally just come out

to walk his dog, Archie.

He was 56 years of age.

He was well known, well liked.

Just an ordinary guy, again,
going about his ordinary business.

Gary Stretch stops the car.

Joanna Dennehy then approached
John Rogers from behind

and again starts stabbing John.

He's stabbed in the
back multiple times.

He falls to the floor.

He's stabbed in the
chest area, the abdomen.

His bowels and kidney are severed.

And he's pleading with
Joanna Dennehy to stop.

But she says words to the effect of,

"Well, look, you're bleeding.
I better do it some more."

And then turns him over on his front

and stabs him some
more times in the back

and leaves John for dead.

And for some inexplicable reason,

Joanna Dennehy took
Mr. Rogers' dog from the scene,

put it in the car,
and drove off with it.

30 times she stabbed
the final victim.

And I expect she's trying to get

that feeling that she got
from the first victim back.

She wasn't getting the release
that she was hoping for,

which is why it's such
a frenzied attack.

She just wants to feel
what she wants to feel.

And she's going for it.

Much like a drug addict
would with a drug.

Much like an alcoholic
would with a drink.

Two stabbings at two
different locations in Hereford.

Police say both
random and unprovoked.

Anybody who thinks

that they may have seen
suspicious activity,

please get in touch with us.

It may be that small piece of
information is useful to us.

There is an element of policing
that is built upon good luck.

But that good luck is founded
on the principles of good policing,

one of which is understanding
your local communities.

On hearing the scene
of the second attack,

we formed the opinion there
was a strong likelihood

to be linked to activities
in an area known as The Oval,

which had a reputation

for being high crime
and involving drugs.

We chose to deploy to The Oval.

And that good luck conspired.

When they arrived at the scene,

they found the green Astra vehicle.

Joanna Dennehy is
alone in the vehicle.

Sat with Archie,
the dog that she's stolen

from John Rogers and
left him for dead.

Responding officers have
approached Joanna Dennehy.

She didn't put up any resistance.

But they got her out of the car,
restrained her, searched her,

and recovered the knife
that we know was used

in the attack on John Rogers.

So that initial response
secured some vital evidence.

And the arresting officers,

when they cautioned Joanna Dennehy,

her response was admission

of the fact that she'd killed a man.

And undoubtedly, that was
referring to John Rogers,

who she'd just literally
stabbed 30 times.

The point of arrest is the
weakest point for a suspect.

They are likely to say things
that they will not say later.

So the fact that she said,

"I admit it, I killed him,"
is very, very significant.

The time scale between
the first stabbing

and the arrest of Joanna
Dennehy was somewhere

in the region of 30 minutes or so.

But, of course, we immediately
knew we were also looking

for a second person.

So that suspect hunt must
be conducted diligently

and very, very quickly
to protect the public.

And that was done within
literally two hours,

Gary Stretch was located near the
village of Armley and detained.

We were pleased
they were in custody.

But we were unclear as to how

and why they were involved
in another incident.

It never occurred to us at that stage
that she was the person that she was.

You then have the
opportunity to reflect.

And it is a fact that an
attempted killing of this nature

is very, very rarely perpetrated
by a female offender.

And so there is an
element of surprise.

Joanne doesn't really conform
to what we expect women to be like.

Quite often in society,
we still see women

as the caregivers,
the maternal figures.

So when we see them
going out of their way

to show such violence
against other people,

that really does shock
our core beliefs.

Once an offender is arrested,

they'll be brought to
the police station.

And they'll be presented before an
officer known as the custody officer.

You have been arrested
on suspicion

of attempted murder and murder, okay?

For somebody who just really
seriously attacked two men

on the street, she was joking,

and making light of the fact
that she'd been arrested

for both attempted murder and murder.

Would you be cheery if you were up
for attempted murder and murder?

- I wouldn't, but-
- No, but I'm still smiling.

Attemopted murder and
murder is nothing.

It's like going down
for Sunday Roast.

Easy.

Joanne is a very
seductive individual.

And the CCTV footage shows us just

how skilled she is at
being able to manipulate

and get what she wants in terms
of interactions from other people.

And not necessarily just men.

I love your eyebrows.

Thanks.

She has the ability to lure
people in with her persona.

And she's demonstrating just
how skilled she is with that.

She does have this energy
to her, which is alluring,

and which absolutely is
classic femme fatale.

You acted perfectly.

Why, thank you.

You are a decent copper.

Thanks.

Remarkable.

No guilt at all.

Body language. Just cocky.

Center of attention.

What's really interesting is

how the police officer's
body language shows

that he's responding
to her flirtatiousness.

So he's gone from being fairly closed

and fairly standoffish, guarded

to actually leaning on the work top,

almost as if the side
by side in a bar.

Quite a shocking, shocking video.

Joanne had alleged
that she was abused

at some point in her childhood.

If the sexual abuse
claims are true,

unprocessed sexual abuse does tend

to present as sexually
provocative behaviour.

We do see it with Joanne.

She is seductive.

She is provocative.

That's all she knows in terms
of how to relate to men.

But then she is a
pathological liar as well.

We know that she uses lies
to get what she wants.

So even though we've got
a really, really good start

on the investigation,

we've got Joanna Dennehy in custody,

there's a knife recovered,

you know that you're dealing
with a very, very serious case.

Witness inquiries,
CCTV, house to house,

fast track actions, forensic actions.

Whole host of enquiries
have to go on in that stage.

And what those inquiries
quickly revealed is

that Joanna Dennehy and Gary Stretch,

in a green Vauxhall Astra,

had driven from Cambridgeshire
across to Herefordshire.

Down the M5.

And then we've got CCTV recovered
from Strensham services.

That showed Joanna Dennehy

and Gary Stretch walking hand in hand

into Strensham
services very casually.

The interesting thing

is all these people walking
past her hardly noticed her.

And yet, she's become one

of the most notorious
killers in British history,

and nobody knows, which goes to prove

that you couldn't tell a killer
if they're standing in front of you.

And that's the shocking thing.

While Stretch and Dennehy
were effectively on the run,

they committed a domestic
burglary out in Norfolk.

And one of the items they took
from that burglary was a camera.

When you look through the images,

they've taken pictures of
each other, of the scenery,

as though they're on some
family road trip together.

It paints the picture of
what Joanna Dennehy referred

to herself as that she wanted really

to be known as Bonnie and
Clyde with Gary Stretch

and become notorious for
the nature of her offending.

Gary Stretch had
connections to Herefordshire.

And in particular, to a
man known as Mark Lloyd.

Gary Stretch and Joanne
Dennehy had been responsible

for stealing items whilst
they were on the run.

They wanted Mark's help
in selling those goods.

And they believed Mark
could help them do that.

So Gary Stretch drives
the Vauxhall Astra.

Joanna Dennehy gets in
the front passenger seat.

And they have Mark Lloyd get
into the back of the Vauxhall Astra.

And they travel to Hereford.

They stopped their vehicle

about 200 meters before
that scene of the attack.

And they'd gone into a
local convenience store.

And what was described by the
store assistant was really,

really light-hearted banter

between Joanna Dennehy
and that store assistant.

And for me, that says something
about the mindset of an individual,

who only a minute or so later,

conducts a really
vicious attempted murder

on an innocent man.

Police are now appealing
for witnesses as they try

to work out why these two
men became the victims

of a random attack.

I found it very, very
difficult to come to terms

with how anybody could
attack a stranger

in broad daylight in the
street for no reason.

There was no attempt to be secretive

or to cover up these crimes

or be particularly sophisticated

in the way that they're committed.

I've investigated major crime

where offenders are
taking great lengths

to protect their identities

to cover up their involvement
in any type of crime.

This wasn't one of those
sorts of instances.

Joanne thrived on excitement.

And she was intelligent enough

to know she will
eventually have been caught

for her behavior.

But the excitement
whilst this was happening

would've been a more
significant draw for her.

My honest thoughts are

that I think she
enjoyed being in prison.

So, actually, for her,
there's not really a lot to lose.

I think she wanted to be caught.

The human element of what we
respond to is not lost on us.

And in my personal view,

it was due to the pure
professionalism of paramedics,

and, obviously, staff at the hospital

who saved Mr. Rogers
life in particular

because his injuries
were really significant.

And, of course, Mr. Breza's
injuries were really serious too.

I've got the added consideration
of liaising with my counterpart,

the senior investigating officer

in the Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire Hertfordshire

major investigation unit,

who've already
circulated Joanna Dennehy

as wanted for the
murder of Kevin Lee,

whose body was discovered
on the 30th of March.

We were expecting, at some point,

to be engaged with
West Mercia Police

to make arrangements to
bring Stretch and Dennehy

into custody into Cambridgeshire

so that we could interview
them for Kevin Lee's murder.

But it was on the morning of
Wednesday, the 3rd of April

that farmers had located two bodies

in a ditch in Thorney
Dyke, which is some miles

from where Kevin
Lee's body was found.

But nevertheless, these bodies were
found in similar circumstances.

And it's that stage that we knew

that we were dealing
with a serial killer.

The bodies were
ultimately recovered.

And the identity of one of them

was quickly established
as John Chapman.

It became apparent that
his phone had been taken

by Stretch and Dennehy
and had been used

by them throughout the period of time
that they were on the run.

And we knew therefore, that
he had become a victim,

rather than being a suspect

and an associate of
Stretch and Dennehy's.

As a consequence of there
being no defensive wounds

to John Chapman's hands or arms,

so we believe that he was
stabbed on the mattress

that was found
subsequently in the garden

whilst he was either asleep

or unconscious due to
significant alcohol consumption.

The entire gravity of
this homicide is reflected

in the post-mortem report.

He was stabbed five
times in the chest.

Two stabs penetrated the heart.

One stab was so powerful, it
went through the breastbone.

One stab severing the carotid artery.

He died without a struggle.

That is a ferocious murderous attack.

We found out one of
the bodies was John.

And that's when all the press
from the world came round.

Television, cameras, reporters.

You know, everywhere we went,

it's all like, oh my days.

Media circus.

John was well loved and well liked
around this community here.

He really was.

He didn't realize how
much he was loved.

Although he was a heavy drinker,

John Chapman's neighbors say
he was never any trouble.

He was all right.
He was harmless.

Because he was drunk all the time.

And just say hello and
he'd stagger on by.

The other individual was a person

that was subsequently identified
as Lukasz Slaboszewski.

He was somebody that we had not come
across before in our investigation.

Lukasz was a Polish national
living in Peterborough.

He was last seen alive at just

after five past seven
on the 19th of March

on some CCTV footage in Lincoln Road,

which was near to where he lived.

Telephone data suggests at 7:36,

Lukasz calls Dennehy's phone
from the Dogsthorpe area,

where Rolleston Garth is located.

We think that an
arrangement had been made

for Lukasz to see Joanna
at Rolleston Garth.

And it was there that she lured him
into the house and then killed him.

Slaboweszki was clearly
the ideal victim for Dennehy.

He was living by himself.

He had a very little social circle.

And therefore, he didn't really
have anyone to protect him.

Following Lukasz's murder,

his body was moved from
Rolleston Garth to a wheelie bin,

where it stayed for a couple of days
before it was ultimately deposited

in the ditch over at Thorney Dyke.

We're unable to say for certain

how Lukasz's body was moved

from Rolleston Garth
into the wheelie bin.

But given the weight,

I suspect that Joanne Dennehy
didn't do that on her own.

It's very likely that Stretch
assisted and maybe others.

Joanne was very much in control

when it came to the dynamic
between her and Gary Stretch.

He was a big man.

He had his own criminal involvement.

But really, the driving force

and the mastermind
and the decision maker

in this relationship was Dennehy.

I think he'd have done
anything she wanted him to do.

He was under her spell.

And ultimately, when
you're in that position,

your boundaries are lost.

You don't really know
what you are doing.

You are making decisions
based on what they want.

Females that are involved
in killing largely tend

to operate in a secondary capacity.

They tend to be a facilitator.

They tend to serve as an accessory.

Rarely do we come across
females that kill,

that operate primarily,
independently,

with minimal supervision,

and in fact, have men
as their subordinates.

When we look into
what femme fatale means,

yes, it talks about
women's attractiveness

and women's ability to seduce.

But it also talks about the darkness

that female energy can also have.

And that can be used to draw men

to do things that they
wouldn't ordinarily have done.

And Joanne demonstrated that quite
clearly with her accomplices.

Jo's sister rang me.

Because I don't really
watch TV at all.

Anything negative,
news, I don't touch it.

She's rang me to say, "Have
you seen the news and that?"

I'm like, "No."

She's like, "I've got
something to tell you."

And that's how I found out.

I just remember like, seeing
weird people pull up in a car.

And I'm thinking, what's going on?

It was all people wanting
your story, newspapers.

I got both the kids out the school.

And the head teacher even
drove me home the back way

to get them out of the way.

Because I didn't want them...

It's like staying out of
a film, if I'm honest.

I kind of made the mistake

of not being honest with
my daughter at first.

I should have just said, look, here.

This is what she's done.

I tried to protect her, in a way.

That's my own fault, really.

The press were there,
so I had to get walked to my house

with my dad's beanie over my head.

I didn't really know
what was going on.

So it was scary.

She's done what she's done.

And she's not thought about

what she's brought into
the world or anything

and what it's going to do
to them or any of that.

My mum picked me up from school
and it come on the radio

that Joanna had done
these awful crimes.

And I just like, sat there

and me and my mum
looked at each other.

And I was like, "What?"

You know, when you're
like just disbelief.

I just kept going, mum,
that could have been us.

To find out that I'd stayed
in the same house with this woman

and that she's just done these awful
crimes just makes me feel sick.

Even now, that's just awful.

I had nightmares for months

because I would just have this vision
of the outside of my bedroom door

and her just being outside.

I feel really, really angry with her

because we were probably just
a blip in her little world.

But that stayed with me.

And I'll always
remember that time that,

you know, she was under
the same roof as all of us.

So whilst we were running the
major investigation from Hereford,

at the forefront
of my mind is the suspect interviews.

Given the nature of offending,

we had some doctors to
assess Joanna Dennehy.

And the assessments indicated

that she was not fit
to be interviewed.

And she was sectioned
under the Mental Health Act

and sent to Arden Lee Institution
for further assessments

to be undertaken into
her mental state.

As those assessments
are being arranged

in the custody block,
I remember thinking,

what does a serial killer look like?

To see one in the
flesh and to be struck

by that realization really,

that it just looks like
any other normal woman

that might be walking the streets.

Ultimately, she was
assessed and then rearrested

and taken to a police
station for questioning.

By that stage, we'd already made
decisions about Gary Stretch.

He'd been charged with
two attempted murders.

He provided a version
of his own events.

So he did speak.

But denied any
involvement or knowledge

in the attempted murders,
stating that he wasn't aware

that Joanna Dennehy was
going to attack anybody.

He wasn't just a hapless helper.

That's what he wanted
us all to believe.

No, he did way more than that.

He knew exactly what Joanne
Dennehy was capable of.

It soon became apparent

that Leslie Layton
hadn't told the truth.

He's a bit of a sad individual.

I think probably of a weak character.

And I don't think he had the courage

to refuse the requests
of Dennehy and Stretch.

He was involved in the burning
out of Kevin Lee's Mondeo

following his murder

and was also responsible,
along with Stretch and Dennehy,

for the deposition
of Kevin Lee's body

and also that of John Chapman.

Mark Lloyd was dealt with
for handling stolen goods,

but became a crucial
witness for the prosecution

in describing what
occurred inside that car

during the two attacks in Hereford.

So when we finally got to
interview Joanna Dennehy,

she went, "No comment,"
which is her right.

Joanne Dennehy and Gary
Stretch were subsequently charged

with offences associated
with the murders

of Kevin Lee, Lukasz Slaboszewski,
and John Chapman.

Joanne Dennehy pleaded not guilty.

Obviously, then that puts the
pressure on the investigation team

to make sure we've got
sufficient evidence

to prove that case beyond
all reasonable doubt.

We were preparing for a
lengthy trial at the Old Bailey.

What we have to do is build
that sequence of events,

that storyline that will
prove the involvement

of Joanna Dennehy,
Gary Stretch, and others

in offenses that have been committed.

We also need to look at
why she did what she did.

Joanne Dennehy is the
only female murderer

that I've ever come across that
has murdered so many people

in such a short space of time.

Something about her
character meant that

that was always her destiny.

But what I struggle
with is the moment

at which that button was pressed.

The moment at which she
committed that first murder,

which was in essence,
her first step along the line

to becoming a very notorious
female serial killer.

The first victim here,

Lukasz Slaboszewski,
was a Polish guy.

31 years old.

And he was in a mall where he bumped

into Joanne Dennehy
for the first time.

Joanne Dennehy lured
Lukasz round to a bedsit.

He thought that he had started
a romantic relationship with her.

He'd even sent a text to friends

and family to let them know

that he had met this
wonderful English woman

who was going to be his
girlfriend, he hoped.

The minute Lukasz
walked through the door

and got as far as the kitchen,

she plunged a five-inch
lock knife into his heart.

He's quite a big guy.

The ferocity of that girl plunging

that knife into that man
once into the heart in one go

and overpowering him
is almost something

out of a horror film.

Putting the body in
a bin was, for her,

a way of just disposing
of something meaningless.

She's just discarded of him
like trash, hasn't she, literally.

After that first murder,

Joanne is said to have told someone
that she got a liking for it.

She really found it quite moreish
and she wanted another taste.

I expect the first kill

gave her something
she wasn't expecting.

That sense of release,
that catharsis.

So I think that the
shame and the guilt

and the pain and the humiliation

that she's been holding onto

for her entire life was
suddenly projected out

into another person through
that penetration of the stab.

And that's why it's moreish.

Because then, she's looking
for that release again.

Joanne Dennehy was
somebody, without question,

driven by a blood lust.

And she murdered on that first
occasion for whatever reason.

And after that, it was almost
as if a button had been pressed.

And she wasn't going to stop
until she'd been arrested.

John Chapman was
Dennehy's second victim.

He was fast asleep
with a drink in his bed.

Joanne Dennehy crept into his room,

pulled his sheet back,

and stabbed him multiple times
in the chest, the heart, the neck.

I think the choice of
weapon is really significant.

There's something about a knife,

something about the sharpness of it,

the stabbing that
is arousing for her.

The interesting thing
with stabbing someone is

that you have to get
up close and personal.

So I can imagine that the
process of that, for her,

was thrilling in that
she was actually able

to see the confusion and the fear
in people's faces as she did that.

Before she even moved John's body,

she's moved on to her next victim.

She arranged to meet
up with Kevin Lee.

And they'd been texting about
what she's gonna do to him.

And there's a bit of talk about she's
gonna dress him up and rape him.

There's a fantasy there
being the one with the power.

The one who's going
to do the penetrating.

But she ends up murdering him.

Stabbing him five times in the chest,
puncturing his lungs.

By this point, Dennehy
is on the news already.

There is a manhunt underway for her.

Police are appealing for
help in tracing two people

in connection with the murder
of a man in Peterborough.

She tells Gary Stretch
that she wants more.

She wants to commit
further acts of violence.

She is making comments.

You know, "You've had your fun, Gary,
I want mine.

I don't want a woman.
I don't want a child.

Find me someone to kill."

She's very excited for what
she's about to experience.

Gary Stretch pointed
to Robin Bereza

and said to Joanne
Dennehy, "Will he do?"

Once the call came in
for the initial stabbing,

within minutes, literally,
there's another stabbing.

John Rogers.

The fact that they're all
male victims is not random.

She wanted men.

It's about overpowering the men.

It's about her taking her power back.

Murderers and serial killers

and offenders are normally victims

before they become criminals.

They were a victim first.

That's what's led
them down this path.

She's been diagnosed with
psychopathic personality disorder.

And she's also got a diagnosis

of emotionally unstable
personality disorder,

which will make her
much more sensitive

to the world around her.

Emotionally more unstable.

I think the deadly part

of the situation here is
that psychopathic element.

Because if she had the empathy,

this wouldn't have led to murder.

It would have been violent.

She might have hurt someone.

She might have felt bad for it.

But actually, when you put

in there the psychopathic
traits, unfortunately,

that's just an absolutely
lethal combination, isn't it?

On the first day of the trial,

witnesses were getting
ready to give evidence

when Joanna Dennehy changed her plea
from not guilty to guilty.

We were all shocked.

Her pleas today
stunned her defense team,

who said it wasn't something
they'd anticipated.

"I've pleaded guilty
and that's that,"

Dennehy told the court.

She later objected to her
lawyers being given time

to check her guilty pleas.

"I'm not coming back
down here again just

to say the same stuff,"
she told the court.

"It's a long way to come

to say the same thing
I've just said."

I don't believe her
entering that guilty plea

was her showing remorse.

That was her exercising, in her mind,

further control over the
criminal justice system.

This was the
ultimate stage for her.

Being able to control
the proceedings at court.

Being able to create a
drama and a theater where,

once again, she's the
center of attention.

It was almost her final swan song.

I think she knew the
evidence was damning.

She knew she was going to go to jail.

And her pleading guilty is her
taking control of that situation.

It's saying, "I am guilty.
Take me down."

It's not allowing someone else
to make a judgment on her.

She just can't have that.

Despite the fact that
Joanna Dennehy pleaded guilty,

there was still a trial to be had

at crown court for other
offenders who had aided, abetted.

Ultimately, all were found guilty.

Stretch was jailed for life

and must serve at least 19 years.

Leslie Layton was
sentenced to 14 years

for the part he played.

Joanna Dennehy was sentenced
the following year, 2014.

These events had such long-term
traumatic impact

on both of these Hereford victims.

It was actually commented upon
by the judge in sentencing.

Robin Bereza
described what happened.

This is from his statement.

"I did not immediately realize
that I was being attacked.

I turned around and saw this lady.

She just stared straight through me.

I asked her, what are you doing?

She said, 'I'm hurting you.

I'm gonna fucking kill you.'"

This is what John
Rogers told the judge.

"I saw the woman who had struck me,
just standing there.

She started stabbing me in the chest.

I was just waiting for it to stop.

There was loads and loads of blood.

And as I lay there, I thought,

this is where I'm going to die."

The judge considered
her to be so dangerous

and her offending to be so severe

that she was subject
of a whole life order.

And what that means is that
she will never be released.

The judge
said she was a cruel,

calculating and
manipulative serial killer.

She will die in jail for her crimes.

Even after Dennehy was
told she'd spend the rest

of her life in prison, her
reaction was simply to laugh.

We saw what sort of person
Joanne Dennehy is today.

Constantly smiling in
front of bereaved families

at times when she showed nothing

but utter disrespect for
everything and everybody

in that courtroom today.

The fact that she'll
never see daylight again

in the outside world is of
huge comfort for the family.

And while I don't measure success

of any investigation on prison time,

in this case, for Joanne Dennehy,

it's absolutely the right thing
that she won't come out of prison.

Dennehy became only
the third woman in the UK

to ever be given life without parole.

The other two being Myra
Hindley and Rosemary West.

And so that really shows
the gravity of her crimes

and the seriousness of her offending.

Joanne will have
known that she was going

to prison for a long time.

But in her mind, that's probably
the next part of her story.

She can go back in with
the power and notoriety.

Everyone fears her.

No one's going to hurt her again.

I can only think that she would
consider that a badge of honor.

Prison is her environment now

where she will need
to negotiate and learn

and find ways of
entertaining herself.

So the behaviors that Joanne will
have exhibited in the community

will still be exhibited in prison.

She's a high risk to
everybody in prison.

We know that whatever that
fantasy is in her head,

she's more than
willing to act upon it.

So after she was sentenced,

my dad still had a lot of questions.

"Why did you do this?"

So he wrote to her.

And she sent this letter back to him.

She starts off by saying,

"You're the last person
I expected to hear from."

And then she starts like,
degrading him,

putting him down, you know.

Saying he's lazy and
he's got no confidence.

And it's like, she's trying
to obtain that power.

You know, I'm still
wearing the trousers.

She goes into quite a lot of detail

on how she manipulated these men

and how she done her killings.

How she had a plan to seduce Kev.

What she left out for him to wear.

A little black dress.

She had Elvis playing
in the background

while she humiliated and killed him.

Dennehy told others that the reason
that she murdered men was

because of unwanted sexual
attention from them.

Personally, I just think
that's a convenient excuse.

I think she was somebody
that enjoyed it.

She mentions here that she doesn't
see Kevin and Lukasz as victims.

If anything, she's a victim.

And she doesn't regret
taking their lives at all.

Once she'd murdered one person,

I think it was a blood
lust that drove her.

And I think she needed
to find an excuse

to justify why she did what she did.

She was a woman, in my view,

who was driven by the
power that being able

to inflict serious
injury on others had

and the pleasure that it gave her.

She dives in here by saying

that she went guilty straight away

because it meant that her reasons

for what she did will
always remain with her.

You know, it's my secret.

She must think that little of those

that she's affected to not be
able to give them the truth.

Joanne won't care who
will still be suffering.

For her, it's about having
the ultimate control.

She wants the world to
think the worst of her.

She wants the world
to be scared of her.

"I've done many
things to many people.

But I do not regret killing them.

Good luck, thank you,
and goodbye, Joanne."

And then she's signed it with a star.

Whilst this documentary is about
the monster that Dennehy was and is,

we must never forget that, you know,

Lukasz and John and
Kevin were all victims

that didn't deserve
what happened to them.

Joanna Dennehy has
taken over our lives

and has callously created a
hole that cannot be filled.

She tried to humiliate Kevin
in a way that wasn't deserved.

She killed three innocent men.

Kevin Lee will never
see his kids grow up.

And Lukasz Slaboszewski
would never get a chance

to get married, to have kids.

And John would never get a
chance to grow old gracefully.

She took that away from
everyone that knew them.

Both victims of these
horrific knife attacks

in Hereford were not only
physically injured severely,

but also mentally traumatised.

Robin Bereza was very dramatically
impacted psychologically.

The second victim, John Rogers,

wasn't in the best of
health at that time.

The strange thing, I found,

is when I sat down
with John at his home

that this had the opposite
effect that it had on Robin.

He actually valued his life more

and became more conscious of
healthy living, healthy eating.

And it was fantastic
to see him recover.

It's very, very rare,
as a police officer,

that you see some good come
out of a really bad situation.

But in this case, it did.

And then it was so, so sad
that a short time later,

John caught cancer and passed away.

I don't know there's
a word to use for her.

Everybody says monster.

But it's more than just a monster.

It's more than that.

If what she wanted was
to go down in history

as this sadistic, masochistic,

female iconic serial killer,

then in a way,
she's got what she wanted

because people won't
forget her in a hurry.

She belongs in hell.

May she rot in hell.

You do think about the people
that she's done what she's done to.

You know, it doesn't
leave your brain.

Because, you know,
I've got my daughters, I'm alive.

And everything's okay in that sense.

But for them, that's a
lifetime of hurt, isn't it?

That's when you were just born.

Look how tiny you are.

I was two and a half the
last time I saw Joanna.

I wouldn't ever call her my mum.

It's just someone that
bought me into this world.

I often wonder what impact

that must have had
on her two children,

growing up knowing that
their mum is now in custody

for the rest of her life and
is known as a serial killer.

How do you approach that subject?

Honestly, you know,
Saff didn't find out

until she was, I think, about 12.

I went to a shop with my sister.

And when I was walking home,
there was a girl.

And she shouted, "Someone told me

that your mum's like a
murderer and she's in prison."

And I had no clue what that meant.

And then my dad had
to tell me everything.

It's the worst sentence
you're ever going to have to say.

And that's their mother.

I think what gets me the
most is the victim's families.

And then, obviously,
the people that I love.

What they've all had to go
through because of one woman.

I wanted, more than
anything on this planet,

for them girls to have
their mother in their life.

Because they're both lovely.

And she's lost out big time.

I am grateful that
she's not in my life

because she's clearly
not a good person.

So I'm glad I've not had
that influence around me.

I've got my dad.

So he's kind of been a mum and a dad

throughout my entire life.

It's the only thing
I'm good at.

It's the only thing I'm good at.

I don't have any skills.

But it just felt natural.

I think it's been a lot for my dad.

He likes to pretend it isn't.

But it definitely is.

Because it's a lot for
someone to go through.

So there's no way it
hasn't affected him.

I'm just me again.

Being with Jo, I lost me completely.

She took every bit of
self-esteem, confidence.

Anything that was there was gone.

And you have to build all
of that back up, don't you?

It took a long time.

And now, I'm probably at a stage

where I'm the person that I
should have been all along.

He's done really well.

He's raised us both
and he's got a lovely partner.

So he's getting there, yeah.

They're my world,
both of my children.

They always have been.

And that's what's kept
everything from crumbling.

You know, I wouldn't be here today,
really, I suppose, without them.

I couldn't be more proud of my girls.

They're a credit to themselves.

They navigate this world.

And they do it with
politeness, caring, love.

So you can't ask for more than that.

They know they're loved
and they're what make me smile.