All language subtitles for Rose and Maloney_S02E03_Katie Phelan 1

OK, everyone, can you listen?

Mary Bettison just got released by the
Court of Appeal. Well done, Joyce.

Nice one, Joyce.

Our third cot death success in three
months. That's the good news.

What's the bad news?

Well, the government just ordered a
judicial inquiry and a review of all

where a parent was convicted on the
evidence of an expert witness. All of

How many is that? 73.

I make that 12 cases per team. The files
are being downloaded to your servers

now, and I'm going to need a preliminary
overview by the end of next week.

Wendy?

You're remembering I had a holiday book.

Did you?

Where are you going?

I haven't decided.

Going with anyone?

What is this?

I'm sorry, I'm just asking.

Are you going to sulk all day? I'm going
to sulk all day, yeah.

Oh, bloody hell.

Twelve bloody cases.

Bloody, sodding, buggering hell.

Are you going to be swearing all day?
Yeah, I'm going to swear all day. Have

got a problem with that, Maloney? No,
no, no, no.

I love it when you talk dirty.

First case.

What's her name?

Katie Feeney, age 19.

She's serving life in HMP Chatham.

What if you do?

Three years ago, she was working as part
-time nanny for Marsha Campasi, the

teacher at her school.

Katie helped her with the baby and did
household chores to give Mrs Campasi a

break.

Katie?

And the husband?

Bill Campesi, an investment analyst.

His statement says that on the 21st of
April 2001, he left work early, stopped

off at the pub to meet friends, got home
at about 7.

Please help me, please help my baby.

Please help my baby.

Oh God, please help my baby.

Come on. Please.

Please. Please. Please.

No. Why are you stopping?

The post -mortem suggested suffocation.

Katie Phelan's conviction was secured in
under ten days.

It's all right.

We'll be all right.

I can't remember his face.

I'll never find him.

Don't worry, we will.

How long have you been here, Katie?

Eight months.

And before that?

Stoke -on -Trent for a while, altering
my security.

You've cast the F. Get along.

They've moved you about.

Nobody likes me.

We need to ask you some questions,
Katie, so we can assess the safety of

conviction.

I'm sure you've heard that the
government has ordered a review of

involving the deaths of babies.

Get me out of here. Well, it doesn't
work like that, Katie.

We'll look at your case to see if the
evidence was considered correctly as

of the overall... I need to get out.

They do things.

Ignore me.

Punch me on the stairs, put chewing gum
in my hair, put tampons in my bed. Do

you know what that's like?

Do you tell anyone about this? Don't be
stupid.

I didn't kill their baby, that's all.

There was quite a lot of evidence
against you, Casey.

And your family background... That's
nothing to do with it!

Well, your brothers were taken into
care, I understand.

Oh, you're like the rest of the
plushkitz who come in here all smiling

thing, and how did you turn out so bad?
Why don't you both just piss off?

OK, Casey.

I want to go over some of your memories
so that we can compare them with what

you said at your trial.

OK?

I was looking after Will from Mrs
Campaisley.

I was doing her a favour. He just died.
What do you want me to say? Just try.

What can it hurt?

Yeah?

We fed the baby every day.

Same as usual.

And Marsha went to do her marking.

I changed Will and put him in his cot.

Will always cried for a long time after
we fed him. How many times he burped.

But that day...

He just stopped.

He just stopped doing the making.

He just stopped.

She did it. Let's move on.

Maybe.

You can't go into bat for everyone,
Rose.

Katie has a violent family background,
there's forensic evidence, pathology and

the mother's witness statement.

And she's tried to commit suicide three
times since she was convicted.

She's exhausted, isolated,
disorientated. People aren't too keen on

killers.

We're just trying to do the assessment
okay.

What's up?

Need a holiday.

Want to come over for lunch on Sunday?

Pardon? Um, come for lunch. I usually
cook something.

Who for?

Well, whoever wants to come.

You doing anything?

I don't know. I'll... I'll check. Let's
go over what she said again.

Cam Paisley was always nice to me.

The rest of my teachers were just stupid
tossers, you know.

But Mrs. Cam Paisley was all right.

Come on.

You're not going to pass like this,
Katie.

Don't you mind?

Well, say something in English, Katie.

Explain to me why you're not coming to
school anymore.

Is your mum still awake? My mum's not
coming back. I have to look after my

brother.

Will it make any difference if I give
you a demerit?

Well?

Got it.

Did you know I had a baby?

Yeah. A boy.

His name's Will.

Will? A bit of a poncy name, isn't it?

Yeah, thanks, Katie.

He's named after... Anyway, I had an
idea about

you.

Do you want to hear it?

I paid her £3 .50 an hour and coached
her in GCSE double science.

She came round three days a week at tea
time and helped me put the baby to bed.

And she was good, is it?

Yeah, she was fine.

Seemed fine.

Will loved her.

He really smiled for her.

And Marsha always seemed so happy when
Katie was here.

I'd always hear them laughing in the
kitchen.

Well, we got it wrong.

It's very good of you to agree to talk
about this.

We don't hate her, you know.

Bill makes me keep the photos out.

That's the last one we took.

It's lovely.

Blonde hair.

Yeah. Yeah, he was born with it.

Everybody thought it was really cute,
this blonde Italian.

But some built man was fair, too.

Oh, sorry, do you mind? Oh, no, that's,
um, years old.

We had to borrow babies then. That's my
friend's boy.

Right.

We have problems conceiving.

You always think these things will just
swing your way, but they don't, and the

years roll by.

And then anyway, out of the blue, we got
Will.

And I think we felt lucky. It's my
fault.

I brought Katie into this house.

I thought I was helping her.

Why are you doing this?

Don't you know what the founders at the
trial said she did to my baby?

Well, I'm sure you've heard there's been
unease about the use of expert

witnesses in some cases of infanticide.

No, you wouldn't expect me to care about
that.

No.

She killed my son.

I've thought about it so often.

If only I hadn't fallen asleep.

Kitty?

Katie? Where are you?

Katie, what are you doing?

He's gone blue.

Bad about the kid.

Yeah.

I want to check the expert witness
evidence. Who was it? Why?

The mother saw her do it.

Katie said the baby was dead when she
found him. Well, she would, wouldn't

This is a non -starter. We should move
on.

Marquess.

Oh, for God's sake. Dr. Diane Marquess.

She's given evidence at the judicial
inquiry this week. Rose?

Not yet.

We've got 11 other cases.

Marquess is in the frame.

She's been investigated and at least
three more convictions which turned on

evidence.

I just want to speak to her. Why?

She's found a member of the club.

What club?

The Women Who Don't Like Other Women
Club.

Katie Phelan versus Dr Diane Marquess. M
-D -P -H -D -F -R -S. You call that a

fair fight?

The problem with the pathology of infant
death is that the signs of violence and

trauma can be very small. It takes a
very high degree of skill and experience

distinguish between cop death and a
deliberately induced injury.

You would consider yourself to have that
skill and experience?

Yes, I would. What conclusion has your
experience led you to?

That our culture is fatally slanted
towards the view that women are unlikely

kill children.

And although many instances of infant
death are accidental, a significant

proportion of them are not.

They are murder.

I'm sorry for the disturbance. Dr.
Marcus, would you please continue?

In my opinion, this current hysteria is
an insult to the medical profession.

We're being judged by people who know
nothing of the science.

and have no expertise other than in
media manipulation.

You believe that you've been correct in
all the cases where you have given

evidence? Yes, I have total confidence
in my own abilities and those of my

colleagues. This is a witch hunt.

I intend to defend my integrity in my
profession.

Thank you for your time.

Dr Marquis, I'm Ruth Linden from the
CJRA. I've tried to ring your office

several times and... I'm sure you'll
understand that I'm not available for

interview by the CJRA. I'm involved in a
judicial review.

Right. I understand you're the expert
witness in the Casey Feeling case. I've

featured in a number of trials, yes.
Good afternoon.

Featured? Yes.

Is that case part of the review?

She was the nanny, not the parent.

We're just in the initial stages.

Well, you're wasting your time.

I remember her now.

Funny -looking scrap.

Couldn't have been clearer. She shook
the baby several times and then

it. You can tell that for sure?

For certain?

Yes. I'm told the pathology reports were
held at your office.

Well, they might have been, although
they're probably filed somewhere else by

now or even thrown away.

Really?

Well, I'd quite like to see them. Look,
you're barking up the wrong tree.

The girl was a walking time bomb.

It was very unfortunate. Good afternoon,
Miss Linden.

I'm Mr Maloney from the CJRA. We spoke
on the phone.

That's right. Come on in.

You want to get my Casey out of there?

We go into these things very carefully.

Casey's story just doesn't add up.

Not when you put it against the
evidence.

That's right.

Nobody stood up for her, did they?

It's just about who you believe, isn't
it?

Eh? Somebody for a year or a...

And a bunch of push bastards.

I read the psychiatric reports that were
presented at the trial. What a push.

Katie had a lot of responsibility. Two
young brothers to look after. Aye, sure.

I understand your wife had been
sectioned under the Mental Health Act at

time.

The children had a few problems with Mrs
Phelan.

She battered them.

She's gone now. How are the boys coping?

I lost them too.

So she'll take them.

Not enough of a family atmosphere.

I'm sorry.

See, that's why I need my wee laddie
back.

That's why I need her back with Maloney.

So we can have a family atmosphere.

It's a feeling I have to ask thee.

Did Katie ever hit or harm your sons?

She never...

They worked after her.

After her mother went, you know.

She did everything.

She was good with them.

She was always taking them to the
doctors when they were ill.

She knew all about all the illnesses.

Those boys will never say that she hurt
them.

Katie loves her brothers.

There's a lot of illness in these flats.

OK, we write it up, we reject it.

The child died, Rose. There's no comfort
in it.

No.

Oh, shit.

How are you doing?

Yes, fine, very good.

I need recommendations.

How many have you done?

Um, one.

Well, what is this?

A go slow?

Perish the thought, Wendy.

I need those reports now.

This review is going to change the law.

And we're going to take the credit for
it if it costs me my last breath.

I want three cases written up by
tomorrow or your holiday gets deferred

hell -freezes -over territory, OK?

We need to tell Katie Fee that she's
buggered.

Yeah. Will you do it?

Hello? Oh, I was looking for Mrs.
Campesi.

Is she here?

Marsha?

Hello.

Look, I'm sorry to call on a Sunday, but
I thought you'd like to know that we're

not proceeding with the reinvestigation
of your son's death.

I, uh... I felt bad about his coming
round and asking questions. It

seemed insensitive.

Anyway...

It's, um... It's Rose, isn't it?

Bill!

Do you want a croissant?

Yeah.

Davina's my lucky mascot.

Came up trumps at 43, didn't you? Sure
did.

I'm going to be godmother.

Davy only lives across the road. It's,
um, going to be great.

Congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you.

Hi.

How's baby?

Clicking like buggery.

You've got a visitor.

Hello. Hi.

They're not going on with Katie.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

That's good.

Some people keep rooms the same, don't
they?

I don't know, really.

He's not here.

We, um, we buried him in my family plot.

I like to think he's with... Why, now,
it sounds a bit bonkers.

No, of course not.

I go up there sometimes.

Bill finds it hard.

So I don't know what to do with this
room.

if you ever have another.

Oh, I don't think we could go there
again.

I couldn't anyway.

I don't know why we stay in this house,
really.

The bill won't move.

So I have an empty room.

Yes, I'm sorry.

What can you do?

Thanks for coming.

I think they appreciated it.

It's no problem.

They're very strong people.

Don't be deceived.

After Will died, I went over and made
dinner almost every night for months

to make sure Marsha ate something.

She never got back to work.

I think it tore them apart.

They lose a second baby.

Second baby?

Oh, shit. My mouth.

They had a baby when they were first
married.

He, uh... He died.

They don't like to talk about it.

He was called William, too.

I think it's a Catholic thing.

They keep a photo of him in the lounge.

Yeah.

Yes, I saw that. I, um, I shouldn't have
mentioned it.

I won't say anything.

Okay.

I know she likes you.

I'll, um, I'll see you around.

Yeah.

Rose, you came.

Yeah, sorry, I forgot to ring. That's no
problem. I invited some other people,

but it's no problem. Darren, get off
the, um... And leave the fish alone,

Darren. Who are you hanging down?

Well, just leave it. We're playing
surgical strike.

So, uh... Where are all these children?

Ah, well, let me see. We've got nephews,
Marion and Marion, my two nieces.

My sister's had a bit of a ruck about
the name.

And, uh, I don't know who the hell that
is.

You? Yes, you. What's your name? That.

Max, come in and have some lunch. We're
having chicken nuggets, chips, ice cream

and chocolate cake, although not
necessarily in that order. No, it's OK,

Listen,

I went round to the campaigns this
morning and their friend told me that

had another baby who died a few years
ago.

Rose, it's Fando. We talk about this
tomorrow.

They kept it quiet.

Why would they do that? Well, because
people like you would come picking them

apart. Come in and have some lunch.

Thanks, anyway. I'll, um... I'll see you
tomorrow.

Uncle, Max has weeded himself.

Have you, Max? Never mind.

That's for me.

It's a death certificate for William
Campesi.

Died 23rd of November, 1994.

Yeah, what's the cause of death? We're
off this one now, Rose.

Well, they were unlucky.

Really, really unlucky.

They should have told us. Does it never
occur to you that people like to keep

parts of their lives private? I'd have
thought you'd have understood that.

I think you can find that doctor.

You can say you were just obeying
orders, Maloney.

OK.

And where are you going?

She's driving you mad.

Can I come and work with you, please,
Joyce?

Any time, Maloney.

I'd appreciate you.

It's a beautiful office.

Thank you.

I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot
the other day.

I'm famously rude, I'm afraid.

Right.

I'm just rude.

How can I help? I'd still like to see
the pathology reports on the Campesi

Why?

Well, I've discovered that Mrs Campesi
had a previous cot death a number of

years ago.

Never mentioned at the trial. But this
wasn't cot death.

The child had blood in its lungs,
abrasions around the mouth, and a broken

as I recall.

Why don't you lay out your worries?

I've read that sometimes the mother
passes on a genetic deficiency.

Yes, yes, it's a fashionable theory.

But the science is very new and
certainly wasn't current when that baby

So much is uncertain about infant death,
that's why you need an expert to

interpret to a layperson like you.

Does your book sell well?

Oh, you are rude, aren't you? People say
that. Look, I understand.

It's reasonable from the outside to
think that maybe a genetic deficiency

that baby, but it just didn't happen
that way.

Could you check for the reports one more
time?

Yes, of course, and I'll let you know.

If you were right about this, you'd
check for a pattern of early deaths on

matriarchal side. That's the genetic
clue, but you won't find it. Of course,

other possibility springs to mind.

Which is? One, cot death is tragic.

Two, well, you'd be looking at the
mother if it wasn't for the

nanny.

I'm just the appliance of science.

I can't help it if people don't like me.

No.

Diane, you're going to the Royal Society
for lunch, remember?

Oh, shit, yeah.

Um... Stick that in the shredder, will
you? I've got to go and get changed.

Are you sure?

Do it, Colin.

Campesi. I think I remember her, yes.
She left the practice maybe nine years

ago?

In 1994, after she lost her baby. And
you were her doctor when the baby died?

What's this all about?

What was her mental state?

She was upset, obviously, as I remember.

I mean before the baby died.

Right. I don't know you, Miss Linden,
and you certainly don't have a right to

ask me about a former patient's medical
history.

Yes, I'm sorry, my... As far as I
remember, Mrs Campezi was in excellent

health before and after her child was
born.

Mrs Campezi lost another baby about
three years ago.

Their nanny was convicted of murder.

I see.

As I say, I didn't know her that well.

But I don't think she showed any signs
of being a danger to her child.

Thank you.

Actually, I'm very glad to hear you say
that, Doctor.

Thank you. You've been a great help.

Can you go in the cupboard, see if you
can find my case notebook for 1994?

God knows if it's there.

Yep.

What are we doing here, Rose?

Conducting a genetic experiment.

It's OK, you can go. I'll find my own
way back.

Oh, stop it. What?

The Martyr Act.

Really pissing me off. One last throw,
Maloney. Let's just try and find out

happened.

Sod, Wendy.

Sod the review. Let's just get a result
here.

OK.

Will Campasi.

William Campasi.

I think it's so sad that they gave them
the same name. Well, there are no more

Campasis here. No more babies, just
these two.

Can we go now? Campasi isn't a maiden
name. It's the mother's side that passes

the DNA.

We are looking for Moffat, or Gillespie,
or Titmuss.

Bloody funny kind of genetic experiment.

Yeah, well, nobody really understands
how it works. You can only go on

probability and statistics, and then you
search...

Bingo.

Mockery.

Yeah.

See if we can find any more.

Hello?

Where?

Some bastard gave her drugs so she could
top herself.

Jesus Christ, they gave her the stuff.

How is she?

I don't know.

She wasn't messing about.

She should have been dead.

She wanted to be dead.

She said what she did.

She what?

What she did.

Dear Dad, it's so horrible here I'm not
going on.

I want to tell you what I did and how
I'm sorry.

I did put things in the boys' cough
medicine.

Antifreeze and the stuff for washing
windscreens.

I knew it would make them sick, so I
could go to the doctor.

Because he was always nice to me.

I don't know why I did it, and I'm
sorry, Dad.

But I never hurt Will.

I never touched him.

I'll swear it in heaven to God he'll
believe me.

I never, never touched him.

You've got to do something about this.

Can't you see?

You've got to do something.

Can I help?

It's Mr Linden, eh? Who shall I say? I'm
Colin Davis.

Diarmucus' personal assistant.

Ah. Look, I'm not going to be here.

It's too late, Colin.

She'll find you.

I've been studying forensic law.

Helped announce in the office with her
admin, take notes, stuff like that.

It's a bit of an honour, really, you
know, to work for her.

What's the problem, Colin?

She must know it's wrong to ask me to
shred an entire pathology report knowing

there's a judicial review going on.

Who was the report on?

Will Campasi.

So I got a transcript of the trial and
read it to find out why, and... I

just don't understand.

Spit it out, Colin. You're a clever lad.

You wouldn't be here if there wasn't a
problem.

The evidence was all based on the
physical trauma.

I mean, even I know the paramedics could
have injured him during CPR, but

it's... It's like... Actually, just
ignored all the other stuff.

Just... Didn't notice it. What other
stuff?

The lab reports.

Bacterial screen, toxicology, there was
loads of it, but she just never

mentioned any of it at trial.

Do you read the lab reports?

Colin?

The baby had a significant streptococcal
infection in his throat and lungs when

he died. Bacterial infection?

Yes. A sore throat, basically.

Well, that's an indicator of cop death.

But she just went with the physical
trauma.

It's like she just read the first three
pages and made her mind up. I mean...

Her evidence was wrong.

So you're worried.

Yes.

I mean, she does so many cases, I think
she just gets careless.

But there is a problem with all this,
Colin.

I mean, you shredded the document,
didn't you?

I guess I'm looking for another job.

So is your boss.

I like my birds.

They always come in the afternoon.

I can watch them... I can watch them for
a long time.

Why have you come, Rose?

I came to tell you that Katie Phelan
tried to commit suicide in prison this

week.

Is she right?

Yes.

But it was serious.

That's... that's so sad.

Yes.

You know, the funny thing is, I still
miss her.

We had some fun together. She made me
laugh.

I don't think she killed your baby,
Marcia.

Katie left a note. She was absolutely in
earnest.

If they hadn't found her, she would have
died.

She had no reason left to lie.

Then explain to me what I saw, Rose.

Because I'd really like to understand.

I found that when people remember
things, it always seems very clear at

But when you have a chance to finally
stand back, you can understand that

are always other ways of seeing things.

Katie, what are you doing?

He's gone blue.

I think he got his injuries later.

He was already dead. Please help my
baby.

Oh, God, please help my baby. No, I
don't understand how that can be, how it

happened.

Marsha, why did you lie to me about your
first child?

Davina told me that you lost a baby
before Will.

Oh, she shouldn't have done that.

Why on earth didn't you tell me? Because
it was none of your business.

Bill and I, well, we never spoke about
it much.

It was easier to pretend it had never
happened.

But he took it really bad.

He made us try again and again for
another baby, but nothing happened.

It was like a punishment.

So we moved house, we got new friends.

I didn't want it to be part of us
anymore.

I'd have thought you could have
understood that.

Marcia, are you aware that other babies
have died in infancy in your family?

No, I didn't. How do you... I checked in
the graveyard and at the public records

office. There are two, possibly three,
over the last 40 years.

I believe you carry a genetic deficiency
that causes any child of yours to be

vulnerable to bacterial infection.

No, I didn't know that.

40 years.

I suppose people just didn't talk about
it then. No.

I saw her do it.

I don't think so, Marcia.

But there's something else.

The expert witness suppressed evidence
at the first trial.

That's going to trigger an appeal.

An appeal?

Katie's conviction is unsafe. I think
it's likely she'll be released.

Because of the genetic thing?

Because she didn't get a fair trial.

No.

But it can't be me.

It can't be me.

See, I love my baby.

I love my baby.

That's Katie Phelan.

Katie Phelan. Katie!

This is a great day. A bloody great day.

My daughter, she'd never been in prison
in the first place.

Her trial was a court -martial. That's
what it was.

It was a parade. No kind of trial at
all. She didn't kill anybody.

My Katie did not kill that baby. She had
to go to hell.

Hell and prison for years.

We'll be taking action.

Legal action.

Against the prison service, the police,
and especially, especially Dr Diane

Marquis. They're going to pay for this.

When are you going to take action
against Dr Marquis?

As soon as possible. Are you really
going to try suing the police?

Of course I am, yes.

Yes.

Sorry?

Must be horrible to do all that again.

Well,

the truth's difficult.

They just need time to get used to it.

Shall we go, then?

Maloney, we've won.

Let me have my moment.

Yes. I know everybody knows that.

You had it?

Yes, thank you. Right.

Are you hoping to get your other
children back? Yeah, yeah, Katie's

Sorry, what was that? Are you hoping to
get your other children back?

Definitely, yes.

And will you be going for compensation?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

What do you think of British justice?

What do you think?

Dr. Diane Marquis was suspended from her
post today as questions continue to be

asked about her role as an expert
witness in a number of criminal trials

concerning infant death.

Well, Wendy Sillery from the Criminal
Justice... Yay!

What's your reaction to this suspension?

Well, this was a success for the
Criminal Justice Review Agency because

diligent and responsible investigations
and reluctance to take things at face

value.

When did you become suspicious that Dr.
Markwith hadn't reviewed the evidence

correctly? We apply a meticulous
approach to all our investigations and a

painstaking examination of the
paperwork.

Yep, that's right.

Infinity to paperwork.

Got Maloney for all that.

Thank God, or we'd have to chain you to
the desk. Yeah, and wring out the

handcuffs.

I didn't say that, Rose. I remember,
Joy. It was a good save, Rose.

Maloney, thank you.

Yeah. Yeah, OK.

Two interviews tonight.

Oh, hello. It's, um, Dr Pearson, isn't
it?

Yes.

I, um... I wonder if I could have a word
in private.

I saw the result of the Katie Phelan
appeal on television today.

I understand that the suggestion of a
genetic link between the two cot deaths.

That's correct. After the first baby
died in 1994, I referred Marcia Campesi

a consultant gynecologist for a tubal
sterilization.

I'm not sure I quite understand.

She couldn't have been the mother of
that second baby.

But a sterilisation could be reversed.

There were complications.

The surgeons performed a full
hysterectomy.

So there's no genetic link to explain
the two -cock death?

I think they got it wrong.

Um... Hang on a second.