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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,440 Ambulance services the patient breathing. 2 00:00:06,980 --> 00:00:11,380 Can you breathe? Can you breathe? 3 00:00:11,620 --> 00:00:12,620 Can you breathe? Can you breathe? 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:13,840 Can you breathe? 5 00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:15,000 Can you breathe? 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Can you breathe? 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,220 Can you breathe? Can you breathe? Can you breathe? Can you breathe? 8 00:00:18,620 --> 00:00:19,620 Can you breathe? 9 00:00:19,740 --> 00:00:22,560 Can you breathe? 10 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Can you breathe? 11 00:00:34,210 --> 00:00:35,610 Hello? 12 00:01:17,550 --> 00:01:18,630 Hangar 4 -1 strong. 13 00:01:19,390 --> 00:01:23,950 Response officers from West Midlands Police are on their way to a serious 14 00:01:23,950 --> 00:01:25,670 stabbing in South Birmingham. 15 00:01:26,850 --> 00:01:27,850 Death. 16 00:01:30,710 --> 00:01:31,710 Sound. 17 00:01:35,430 --> 00:01:40,550 Single male, massive trauma to his chest and his belly. 18 00:01:40,950 --> 00:01:42,250 Stop moving, little man. 19 00:01:42,950 --> 00:01:44,690 How old are you, bro? 20 00:01:46,429 --> 00:01:49,090 The badly injured teen is taken to hospital. 21 00:01:49,730 --> 00:01:50,990 Did you see anything, mate? 22 00:01:52,810 --> 00:01:55,510 Whilst officers try to find out what's happened. 23 00:01:55,950 --> 00:01:57,610 I know, we just want to try to get your details. 24 00:01:58,130 --> 00:02:03,110 They said 25 00:02:03,110 --> 00:02:08,310 they've ran out the back of this car park and that's all we've got. 26 00:02:08,910 --> 00:02:13,410 They don't want to talk to us at all, really, so... It's a bit difficult. 27 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,040 Lads have found a knife. We're extending the scene further up. Just hold. 28 00:02:19,700 --> 00:02:22,040 I'm conscious of disturbing any evidence. 29 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:32,840 The next 30 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:40,500 morning, 31 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,280 forensic investigator Andy Biggin. 32 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:46,400 joined search officers to examine the crime scene. 33 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:53,760 I've done the big open area bits as well and the drains we can see all of them 34 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,080 actually with a torch. 35 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,960 You can obviously see the silver kitchen knife amongst what looks like duck down 36 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,860 feathers which may have been from a jacket of whoever's been involved in the 37 00:03:07,860 --> 00:03:08,860 altercation. 38 00:03:09,660 --> 00:03:12,360 The other side is quite heavily 39 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,600 kind of sold with moisture, having been on a wet ground. 40 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,780 There is a teenage child fighting for his life. 41 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,320 The biggest challenge of the scene is the sheer size to make sure nothing's 42 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:29,320 missed. 43 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,740 Because at this point, I'm unaware exactly what happened, where it happened 44 00:03:36,740 --> 00:03:37,740 how it happened. 45 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,940 It's a large, large zombie knife. 46 00:03:42,750 --> 00:03:48,490 25 metres away from the kitchen knife, Andy recovers a second deadly weapon. 47 00:03:53,570 --> 00:03:57,450 Any utility of that's going to cause a significant amount of injury. 48 00:03:58,690 --> 00:04:00,470 I'll photograph it with scale. 49 00:04:04,750 --> 00:04:09,390 I'll make notes of what I've identified and we'll send it off to the major crime 50 00:04:09,390 --> 00:04:10,730 lab to have that. 51 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:19,320 Examined. The knives were spread quite far away from each other, which would 52 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,180 suggest that the incident started in one location and perhaps finished in 53 00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:25,180 another location. 54 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,040 The offenders could have fled in any direction. 55 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,870 With the victim fighting for his life in hospital, The case has escalated to the 56 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:46,310 homicide team, led by Detective Inspector Abe George. 57 00:04:46,930 --> 00:04:47,930 Morning all, then. 58 00:04:48,290 --> 00:04:50,810 So, briefing for Operation Tipping. 59 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:55,350 We were called by members of the public and also ambulance, saying that they 60 00:04:55,350 --> 00:04:56,950 were treating a male who'd been stabbed to the chest. 61 00:04:57,350 --> 00:05:02,170 An arrival at the QE described as actively dying due to his injuries. 62 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:08,250 He's got stab wounds to his bowel and his chest, his pancreas, his liver and 63 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:09,730 kidney, and he's lost one kidney. 64 00:05:10,570 --> 00:05:13,510 This has a potential to become a murder investigation. 65 00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:17,250 The victim can't be spoken to because he's in intensive care. 66 00:05:17,650 --> 00:05:19,210 He can't tell us what's happened. 67 00:05:20,410 --> 00:05:23,750 Overnight, there's already been a major development in the case. 68 00:05:24,590 --> 00:05:29,530 I have two teenagers, Lincoln's three, who are brothers, both arrested from the 69 00:05:29,530 --> 00:05:30,530 same address. 70 00:05:31,190 --> 00:05:36,430 A 15 -year -old suspect with minor injuries and his brother have been 71 00:05:36,430 --> 00:05:37,930 at a house near the crime scene. 72 00:05:38,330 --> 00:05:40,670 after police were alerted by the ambulance service. 73 00:05:41,330 --> 00:05:45,970 So, first suspect is currently in hospital with cuts to his hand and his 74 00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:48,650 He can't account for his injuries because he can't remember how it 75 00:05:48,750 --> 00:05:49,750 etc. 76 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:54,050 They come across his brother wearing a jacket that's got black kind of slash 77 00:05:54,050 --> 00:05:55,050 marks on it. 78 00:05:55,870 --> 00:05:59,550 They've made, obviously, the assumption that he could be involved and that he's 79 00:05:59,550 --> 00:06:00,770 also been locked up for attempt murder. 80 00:06:01,870 --> 00:06:05,730 Both brothers have been evasive with police and will be interviewed in 81 00:06:05,730 --> 00:06:06,850 connection with the stabbing. 82 00:06:07,980 --> 00:06:12,760 I'm presented with two people that are injured. One victim who's in hospital 83 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,060 with serious life -threatening injuries, but I also have the suspect who's also 84 00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:18,060 got injuries. 85 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,740 So it makes it quite complex in terms of what might have actually happened at 86 00:06:22,740 --> 00:06:23,339 the scene. 87 00:06:23,340 --> 00:06:26,720 It could be that this was a chance meeting between the two. 88 00:06:26,980 --> 00:06:30,600 They've got involved in a fight and it just so happens that the victim has come 89 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:31,239 off worse. 90 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,800 It could be that the victim has been attacked by multiple people. 91 00:06:35,230 --> 00:06:37,150 There's a whole host of options that it could be. 92 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:40,370 And there are two witnesses that we're aware of at this moment in time. 93 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:43,870 Unfortunately, they wouldn't give statements yesterday. They've told us 94 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:46,490 categorically, go away, don't darken our doorstep again. 95 00:06:46,750 --> 00:06:48,110 We don't want to give you any statements. 96 00:06:49,330 --> 00:06:53,990 CCTV -wise, we've got the CCTV team who are going out and doing recovery for us 97 00:06:53,990 --> 00:06:54,909 at the moment. 98 00:06:54,910 --> 00:06:56,310 OK? Thank you. 99 00:07:05,390 --> 00:07:11,950 Without any witnesses willing to talk to them, aide and DC Denisa Briscoe need 100 00:07:11,950 --> 00:07:14,670 to gather more information from the scene of the brothers' arrest. 101 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:31,890 Officers were called to the brothers' house an hour after the stabbing. 102 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,000 when paramedics noticed signs of a knife fight. 103 00:07:37,260 --> 00:07:37,780 I 104 00:07:37,780 --> 00:07:46,000 mean, 105 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:57,220 he's obviously told the officers that he's been hit, but he's not really, 106 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,740 kind of disclosing how he's been hit. 107 00:08:00,270 --> 00:08:02,670 I know, he seems to be quite vague about what happened. 108 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:07,090 If you're truly innocent, why not give us a full account? Why not tell us now 109 00:08:07,090 --> 00:08:08,450 exactly what happened? 110 00:08:11,750 --> 00:08:12,290 I think 111 00:08:12,290 --> 00:08:19,270 you can 112 00:08:19,270 --> 00:08:22,410 probably see from that injury to his hand and the injury to his other finger, 113 00:08:22,410 --> 00:08:25,010 looks like a slash mark of some kind. 114 00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:29,620 It feels to me at this moment in time that he's not particularly forthcoming 115 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:33,840 with information because perhaps he knows that he's been involved in some 116 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:34,840 of criminality. 117 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,880 This is the second suspect, his older brother, returning to the address. 118 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:41,600 Hello. What's your name, fella? 119 00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:44,400 Listen, keep your hands where I can see them. What? 120 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:47,960 What? 121 00:08:48,380 --> 00:08:50,000 I haven't. 122 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,340 He looks like he's got bits of fluff in his hair. 123 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:54,620 Yeah. 124 00:08:57,709 --> 00:09:01,910 Yeah, there's bits of this kind of stuff near to where the victim was stabbed. 125 00:09:03,890 --> 00:09:08,610 The issue that we've got, it's all circumstantial, so it doesn't actually 126 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:12,570 that they were part of that offence. Where we don't have any sort of direct 127 00:09:12,570 --> 00:09:14,510 evidence, it does make things more difficult. 128 00:09:15,370 --> 00:09:19,350 I'm hoping that forensics are going to be able to tell me exactly what 129 00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:24,830 The victim received a single stab wound to his stomach. 130 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:30,600 but i have two suspects so the question is who's stabbed him 131 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:40,440 lead 132 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,580 forensic investigator joe ward assesses evidence gathered from the crime scene 133 00:09:45,580 --> 00:09:52,540 to be sent for urgent testing you can see quite a large 134 00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:53,540 kitchen knife 135 00:09:54,380 --> 00:09:57,720 The concern is straight away for me is that it appears wet. 136 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:03,440 I think it's been raining, which may destroy any DNA that's on there. 137 00:10:04,620 --> 00:10:07,440 It's really unusual to find weapons at the scene. 138 00:10:07,780 --> 00:10:11,980 Normally, when we've got a scene where someone's been stabbed or injured, the 139 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:13,480 weapons are nowhere to be seen. 140 00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:16,140 So this is a real golden nugget for us. 141 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,860 And then there's another knife. 142 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,840 In fact, it's a very large machete. I'm quite shocked. 143 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,900 that could do some serious damage. Young people are walking around carrying 144 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:27,940 these large weapons. 145 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,560 It's quite scary. 146 00:10:31,540 --> 00:10:34,040 I've certainly seen over the years the weapons getting bigger. 147 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:40,180 The zombie knives, the machetes, the way it's designed is meant to kill. When I 148 00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:44,640 was younger, if there was a fight, it involved fists, but now, unfortunately, 149 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,100 you're carrying something, you'll reach for that weapon. 150 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,380 For us, it gives us forensic opportunities to... 151 00:10:50,970 --> 00:10:54,370 know certainly identify if there's any blood on those weapons but also who's 152 00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:55,610 handled those weapons as well 153 00:10:55,610 --> 00:11:07,710 first 154 00:11:07,710 --> 00:11:12,430 technician holly roscola examines the kitchen knife for fingerprint ridge 155 00:11:12,430 --> 00:11:19,430 that may help police identify the attacker i'm using a 156 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,200 range of light sources to see if i can find any visible mark 157 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:31,160 so i'm just going to look at the blade of the 158 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:36,120 knife i'm currently using uv 159 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:42,980 and i'm just trying to see if there's any rich detail 160 00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:45,440 that may be exposed from the light sources 161 00:11:49,290 --> 00:11:52,650 The blade is negative for any marks. 162 00:11:53,470 --> 00:11:55,030 I'm going to look at the handle now. 163 00:11:58,370 --> 00:12:02,110 And I can see some ridge detail on the handle of the knife. 164 00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:07,910 It's just there. 165 00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:16,230 But there's not enough to be able to send up to the fingerprint bureau. 166 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:19,380 So I'm going to class this as being no value. 167 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,620 As you can imagine, a kitchen knife you use regularly, so what tends to happen 168 00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:29,880 is you get overlay of an overlay of fingerprints, so it's quite hard 169 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,440 to actually be able to get a decent identifiable fingerprint from it. 170 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:43,820 The focus turns to the 16 -inch machete, which is taken to be swabbed for DNA. 171 00:12:44,810 --> 00:12:48,370 And I'll go ahead and I will take a handler sample. 172 00:12:48,990 --> 00:12:55,410 This is to recover any possible cellular material of anyone who has handled the 173 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:56,410 knife. 174 00:13:00,170 --> 00:13:06,470 So I've spotted some red -brown staining visible here on the cutting edge of the 175 00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:07,470 blade. 176 00:13:09,310 --> 00:13:12,530 And then you put a dap of KM on. 177 00:13:13,150 --> 00:13:14,410 A drop of H2O2. 178 00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:20,950 And there we have a nice pink reaction, which is an indication that there is 179 00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:21,950 blood present. 180 00:13:23,770 --> 00:13:30,130 So they get cut off and then put in an ortho -life tube, which will then get 181 00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:31,130 sent to DNA. 182 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:39,090 We don't need an awful lot of blood nowadays to obtain a DNA profile from 183 00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:41,490 No, we only need a pinprick -sized sample. 184 00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:47,870 If this comes back to the victim, we can say that this knife has been used to 185 00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:51,870 cause these injuries to the victim, and then it's about trying to identify if 186 00:13:51,870 --> 00:13:53,630 one of the brothers actually handled that knife. 187 00:13:56,470 --> 00:14:02,250 While the victim remains critically ill in hospital, suspect one, the 15 -year 188 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:05,490 -old who was also injured, is now fit to be questioned. 189 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,860 So, everything that we're seeing now is being audio and video recorded. 190 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,980 When I interview juveniles, I always try to bear in mind the fact that they are 191 00:14:18,980 --> 00:14:23,420 children at the end of the day, and they might be scared, they might have never 192 00:14:23,420 --> 00:14:27,320 been in police custody before, so it can be quite challenging to get them to 193 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,320 open up. 194 00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:35,720 So, tell us about your involvement in this incident, if any at all. 195 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,380 I've got prepared statements, but we don't. 196 00:14:39,660 --> 00:14:43,760 I deny the allegation of attempted murder. I will maintain that I am the 197 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,240 of a crime. I sustained injuries of a very serious nature. All these injuries 198 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,580 were sustained by a knife attack that I was subjected to. I will maintain that I 199 00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:53,680 acted in self -defense. 200 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,920 I thought my own life was in danger. I responded reasonably. 201 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,720 I see your right hand in a cast. 202 00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:07,400 Talk to me about how that knife caused that injury. 203 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:15,320 I remember I was hit first with the knife. Yeah, I chopped the knife. 204 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,240 Yes. I put my hand up. 205 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,740 Like this. The camera can see it now. To block it. Yeah. And then, yeah, I 206 00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:24,440 chopped my hand. 207 00:15:25,020 --> 00:15:26,360 And then what happened after that? 208 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,300 After that, I can't really remember. 209 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,100 I think I fell on the ground or something. 210 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,400 I think, yeah, I think I fell on the ground and then something hit me on the 211 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,600 back of my head. After that, I think I was knocked down. 212 00:15:39,530 --> 00:15:44,070 He accepts his presence at the scene, but states that he was the one that was 213 00:15:44,070 --> 00:15:45,670 attacked and he was just defending himself. 214 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:50,870 So it makes it difficult to establish who is, you know, a suspect and who is a 215 00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:51,870 victim. 216 00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:56,990 You say or maintain that I acted in self -defense, and then you say, I responded 217 00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:57,990 reasonably. 218 00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:01,530 Tell me about how you responded. 219 00:16:02,390 --> 00:16:03,390 Not coming. 220 00:16:04,070 --> 00:16:05,150 Did you stab him? 221 00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:06,630 Not coming. 222 00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:23,350 Self -defence is a really tricky one for us to prove, but also for us to 223 00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:24,350 disprove. 224 00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:25,790 It's not clear -cut. 225 00:16:26,350 --> 00:16:30,870 We are going to have to look at, was he acting reasonably and proportionately? 226 00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:32,790 Did he feel that his own life was... 227 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,440 you know in danger that he needed to like kind of lash out and so therefore 228 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,400 forensics are going to be really key in helping us build up a picture about what 229 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,160 happened and how he came by those injuries 230 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:48,020 to 231 00:16:48,020 --> 00:16:54,940 help 232 00:16:54,940 --> 00:17:00,180 investigate suspect wand claim of self -defense joe assesses the victim's 233 00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:03,280 clothing for signs of how the attack unfolded. 234 00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:11,900 As you can see, it's been cut down the middle, which has been caused by the 235 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:13,119 ambulance at the scene. 236 00:17:13,579 --> 00:17:14,859 They put it back together. 237 00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:18,060 Fucking cheeky poor fossil, this is. 238 00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:20,480 Was it a prolonged attack? 239 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:26,599 They just attempted stabbing once to then prove whether it was self -defense 240 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:27,599 quite difficult. 241 00:17:28,030 --> 00:17:32,890 We know a victim suffered one stab wound to the chest, but a victim's clothing 242 00:17:32,890 --> 00:17:36,390 can tell you a completely different story to what you actually see on the 243 00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:42,190 Sometimes on clothing we see more attempted kind of stab wounds and that 244 00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:45,570 because, you know, the victim's running away or is moving and the weapon's only 245 00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:48,690 just managed to actually cause the damage but not actually penetrated 246 00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:49,690 the skin. 247 00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:55,650 Straight away I can kind of see damage mark here and then a bit lower down, 248 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:56,710 of the waist area. 249 00:17:57,340 --> 00:17:59,620 Again, it appears to have been caused by a sharp instrument. 250 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,660 And that's gone all the way through, but there's no corresponding marks in the T 251 00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:07,840 -shirt. And the question is, has the weapon made contact with the actual coat 252 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,020 itself? It's gone through, but then not penetrated the actual T -shirt. 253 00:18:12,260 --> 00:18:16,020 This clothing tells us that the attempt on the actual victim itself was more 254 00:18:16,020 --> 00:18:17,160 than just that one stab wound. 255 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:22,240 It really highlights the level of force that was used, how frenzied the 256 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,240 attacker's been. 257 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:26,700 It's likely that his thick coat saved his life. 258 00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:28,210 He's looking to be alive. 259 00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:39,870 Police now want to interview the older brother, suspect two, whose own coat had 260 00:18:39,870 --> 00:18:41,950 apparent flash marks when he was arrested. 261 00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:45,930 Did you have any involvement in this incident? 262 00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:49,690 I've got a prepared statement with half my client. 263 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,560 I denied the allegation of attempted murder. I'm not responsible for this 264 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,360 offence. I've not instigated or stopped anyone at all. 265 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,100 On the night in question, I was at home. 266 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:06,700 It was only after my brother went to hospital that I flew on the coat that he 267 00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:09,200 was wearing that evening. That is my brother's coat. 268 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,340 This is because once the police and ambulance left, I was not thinking 269 00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:15,340 and I went outside to go and see what happened. 270 00:19:16,110 --> 00:19:19,130 I'll not be on CCTV at the time of the incident. 271 00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:21,170 I deny the allegation entirely. 272 00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:22,810 Thank you. 273 00:19:25,670 --> 00:19:31,350 OK, so you threw on the coat he was wearing that evening. 274 00:19:32,050 --> 00:19:36,830 What exactly made you put his coat on as opposed to your own coat? 275 00:19:37,210 --> 00:19:42,770 I'm trying to keep an open mind as to what might have happened and there is a 276 00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:45,150 possibility that he's telling the truth, that he was not involved. 277 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:50,550 But then equally, there is also a possibility that he's either covering 278 00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:53,010 brother or he's also an offender. 279 00:19:54,550 --> 00:19:56,290 OK, I haven't got any further questions. 280 00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:58,130 Easy to be concluded. 281 00:20:02,790 --> 00:20:06,290 At this moment in time, I can't categorically say that he's involved 282 00:20:06,290 --> 00:20:08,150 incident. You know, this is a juvenile. 283 00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:11,370 So I have a limited amount of time I can keep him in custody. 284 00:20:12,370 --> 00:20:15,430 Is the forensic evidence going to actually tie him to the scene? 285 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,620 With Suspect 2 claiming the ripped jacket belongs to his younger brother, 286 00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:35,560 sent for urgent DNA testing to see if they can confirm who was wearing it 287 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:36,560 the attack. 288 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,060 The first thing I'm going to do is take a wearer sample. 289 00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:47,760 So I'm going to start by mini taping the inside collar. 290 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,120 the surface comes in contact with the skin it can leave behind little skin 291 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,720 flakes and oils and stuff and that's just what we're picking up on the tape 292 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,820 it should pick up any cellular dna that's in that area what we need to do 293 00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:11,480 establish you know whose jacket that is however although they don't share the 294 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,760 same dna because everyone's got their own unique dna because they live 295 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:22,130 and they may share that jacket it may prove difficult to actually say who's to 296 00:21:22,130 --> 00:21:24,490 wear off that jacket at the time of the attack. 297 00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:31,090 I'm just looking at this area of damage to the hood. 298 00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:37,050 The cuts have quite a straight edge to them, so it does look like the hood has 299 00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:43,670 been cut by a sharp object such as a knife, rather than if it is 300 00:21:43,670 --> 00:21:47,750 torn, the edges would look quite frayed and different. 301 00:21:48,350 --> 00:21:53,990 There's quite a bit of red -brown staining here that looks like it could 302 00:21:53,990 --> 00:22:00,630 blood. So I'm just going to use my scalpel to cut out a small area with 303 00:22:00,630 --> 00:22:07,130 stain. I can get those samples sent off to DNA now and we'll see if we can get a 304 00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:08,130 profile. 305 00:22:13,670 --> 00:22:15,930 This jacket is really crucial to this investigation. 306 00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:21,380 If that blood comes back to victim, then, you know, that would suggest that 307 00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:26,500 person wearing that jacket was certainly at that scene and in close proximity to 308 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:29,060 the actual victim and involved in this incident. 309 00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:34,140 Right, OK. 310 00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:40,680 So that's the Sainsbury's camera. That camera is looking along that frontage, 311 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:41,800 it's pointing in that direction. 312 00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:46,840 I've been able to get various items of footage. 313 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:54,320 CCTV specialist Zed Ahmed is piecing together footage from numerous cameras 314 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,780 in an attempt to track the movements of the brothers and victim on the night of 315 00:22:59,780 --> 00:23:00,780 the attack. 316 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,820 CCTV work, it's quite niche and I think one needs a lot of patience. 317 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,940 It's really important that you don't miss any detail. 318 00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:18,090 Because CCTV footage doesn't lie, it acts as a kind of reconstruction tool. 319 00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:24,370 This is a short walk away from where the stabbing took place. 320 00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:31,010 I can see the victim go to McDonald's with two other females. 321 00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:40,910 You need to be cautious when watching. 322 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:42,520 nighttime footage. 323 00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:43,540 It's grainy. 324 00:23:43,740 --> 00:23:45,580 It can be quite misleading sometimes. 325 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,280 You can get the wrong impression. 326 00:23:47,540 --> 00:23:50,000 So that's really important to keep an open mind. 327 00:23:57,540 --> 00:24:00,380 He's in McDonald's for quite some time. 328 00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:02,360 I just run it forward. 329 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,560 Two minutes past midnight, he leaves by himself. 330 00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:14,690 Unfortunately for us, that part of the main road is not covered by CCTV cameras 331 00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:16,230 and I can't track him any further. 332 00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:21,210 It's chilling to think that he will be stabbed soon after this. 333 00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:38,530 So, I just thought I'd update you because I've just had the results back. 334 00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:43,930 Both knives found at the scene and the ripped jacket have been tested for DNA. 335 00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:50,750 So if I start off with the silver kitchen knife, no blood was found on 336 00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:52,410 there's no fingerprints that were found. 337 00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:58,850 Then we go on to the machete, so there was blood that was found on the actual 338 00:24:58,850 --> 00:25:02,230 blade, but that's come back to suspect one. 339 00:25:05,370 --> 00:25:11,690 There was DNA that was taken from the handle and that has actually come back 340 00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:12,710 the victim. 341 00:25:13,170 --> 00:25:17,230 Okay. So, suggesting that that was the victim's knife. 342 00:25:18,610 --> 00:25:19,870 Okay, that's interesting. 343 00:25:20,490 --> 00:25:22,370 Why was the victim carrying a knife? 344 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:26,130 If he's had to go somewhere to meet somebody with a knife, he's potentially 345 00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:27,290 expecting some trouble. 346 00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:29,390 They've both stabbed each other. 347 00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:31,950 Who struck who first? 348 00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:41,670 Blood on the outside of the jacket has been profiled to suspect one, but no 349 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:46,450 victim's blood, so that fits in with the account of suspect two, that he's 350 00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:50,570 actually borrowed his brother's jacket after the event. 351 00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:54,730 I'm not sure if you've been given an update from the prepared statement that 352 00:25:54,730 --> 00:25:58,490 suspect one gave in interview, which was that effectively he was acting in self 353 00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:01,870 -defence, he was attacked, and that's obviously why he's lashed out. 354 00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:09,180 So obviously some of those results does go some way to support his account. 355 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,820 I'll be sorting out your bail. So you are going to be released from custody 356 00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:20,060 today, but there are going to be certain bail conditions that are going to be 357 00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:21,080 attached to you by the law. 358 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:29,360 So far, none of the forensic evidence links suspect 2, the older brother, to 359 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:30,360 stabbing. 360 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,280 I don't feel that we've gathered enough evidence that we can go and approach the 361 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,320 Crown Prosecution Service in order to authorise charges. 362 00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:41,700 It may actually be the evidence doesn't exist because he's not involved, but 363 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:45,340 equally the investigation will continue. It doesn't stop just because someone's 364 00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:46,760 been bailed. Thank you, Sergeant. 365 00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:53,420 Whilst suspect two is released on bail, his younger brother remains in custody. 366 00:27:06,510 --> 00:27:10,190 So we've received in both Suspect 1 and Suspect 2's devices. 367 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:13,770 I'm going to take initial photographs of both of these. 368 00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:18,830 In a bid to find a motive for the attack that connects the brothers to the 369 00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:23,190 victim, all three teenagers' phones are sent for data to be downloaded. 370 00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:28,550 Suspect 1's device, it's very damaged. 371 00:27:28,770 --> 00:27:33,310 The camera smashed, the back smashed, a slight crack into the front of the 372 00:27:33,310 --> 00:27:34,299 device. 373 00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,140 just has to be very careful when we're extracting the data from this 374 00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:49,980 just 375 00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:55,260 showing that the device is encrypted apple devices are notoriously difficult 376 00:27:55,260 --> 00:28:00,500 get into doesn't look like we've picked up a lot from images videos or chats 377 00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:06,270 There's literally next to nothing. 378 00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:09,650 Now, starting on suspect two's device. 379 00:28:15,790 --> 00:28:19,850 I'm not actually seeing a lot of images, videos, or any kind of media 380 00:28:19,850 --> 00:28:20,850 whatsoever. 381 00:28:20,890 --> 00:28:25,650 Doesn't appear like there's much data from the extraction at all, because it's 382 00:28:25,650 --> 00:28:26,650 probably a new phone, that's why. 383 00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:32,170 Although the suspect's devices are encrypted, the victim's phone is 384 00:28:33,130 --> 00:28:38,310 and the data downloaded for digital media investigator Sherry Watkins to 385 00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:39,310 analyse. 386 00:28:39,570 --> 00:28:45,010 When it comes to digital evidence these days, it's one of the most crucial 387 00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:48,510 elements of an investigation, especially when you're dealing with teenagers. 388 00:28:49,090 --> 00:28:53,290 They are addicted to their phones. The phones are the world. They're 389 00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:59,590 So I know that the victim's phone was used to phone 999, so that call, I've 390 00:28:59,590 --> 00:29:00,590 that on here. 391 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,400 That was at 0049 hours. 392 00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:09,340 I'm going to go back a couple of hours and see if there's any content of note 393 00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:10,340 there. 394 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,440 The first thing I want to do is look to see if there's any contact between the 395 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,000 victim and one of the suspects. 396 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,380 Chances are, with the age, it's going to be Snapchat, TikTok, because kids 397 00:29:20,380 --> 00:29:24,320 rarely use network calls, network text messages these days. It's usually all 398 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,320 apps. 399 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,180 He's got some stuff on here that I'd usually find on teenagers' phones. 400 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:35,160 Chat here where he's swapping rap songs with somebody. 401 00:29:35,420 --> 00:29:39,480 A lot of it's just chats with friends by the look of it, maybe a girlfriend. 402 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:41,840 What else have we got? 403 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,600 He's using Snapchat quite a lot. 404 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,220 You can do direct messaging, but the thing with Snapchat that attracts a lot 405 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:51,300 them to it is the fact that it disappears quickly afterwards. 406 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,820 So the content's gone, it can't be retrieved. But we have got some data 407 00:29:56,820 --> 00:29:57,820 comes back on the phone. 408 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:05,500 From the data, Sherry is able to pinpoint communications between the 409 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:06,500 suspect one. 410 00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:12,520 Looks like there's a large volume of messages between nine o 'clock at night 411 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,860 quarter to one, which is pretty much like a couple of minutes before this all 412 00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:17,799 kicks off. 413 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,640 And there are 242 messages and they're literally like bang, bang, bang, bang, 414 00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:25,820 bang. And there's a couple of phone calls, there's some video calls on 415 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,000 But annoyingly, I can't see any of the content. 416 00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:32,040 It does make me wonder what was being said. 417 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,640 As much as it's frustrating because I don't have the content, those messages 418 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,640 were being bandied back and forth and they literally finished seconds before 419 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,560 attack had taken place, which would suggest that there was potentially a 420 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,800 prearranged meet between the victim and suspect one. 421 00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:07,210 Got some further footage here from the Sainsbury's car park. 422 00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:13,110 With the phone data suggesting a planned meeting, Zed has tracked the victim to 423 00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:18,010 the car park close to where he was found stabbed and discovered a major lead. 424 00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:21,250 I can see he's on his mobile phone. 425 00:31:23,050 --> 00:31:26,650 He's now walking backwards and forwards. 426 00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:30,390 I wonder whether he's waiting there for somebody. 427 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,240 To the left of the frame, I can see three individuals running in the 428 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:42,240 of the victim. 429 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:48,960 The victim is walking off to the right of the screen and these three 430 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,960 are chasing him. 431 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:55,960 Three individuals that are involved in this incident. That's significant, that 432 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:56,960 is. 433 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,860 Who is this third suspect? 434 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,660 Who is doing what? 435 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120 The footage is not the clearest. It's dark at the time. 436 00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:07,540 Their faces are covered. 437 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,060 They're wearing dark clothing. 438 00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:15,340 At this moment, I'm unable to identify who the actual suspects are. 439 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:22,000 If I just pause it there and take it back slightly, I've just noticed 440 00:32:22,180 --> 00:32:24,960 I've zoomed in here onto the CCTV footage. 441 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,020 And just there, something that caught my eye. 442 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:34,840 He's clearly holding an item that's shiny. It's got a reflective quality. 443 00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:38,200 It's certainly consistent with a knife. 444 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,940 And he's holding that in his right hand as he's running in the direction of the 445 00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:44,660 victim. I imagine to attack him. 446 00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:51,880 The victim and the individuals have gone off the screen. 447 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:56,160 And I don't think I've got footage from that particular location. 448 00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:59,560 Is it a setup? 449 00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:04,990 It's very difficult then for a suspect to argue that they acted in self 450 00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:08,910 and therefore used reasonable force if actually what they've done is arranged 451 00:33:08,910 --> 00:33:11,390 meet somebody with a view to having some disorder with them. 452 00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:17,050 There's obviously still some outstanding offenders. 453 00:33:17,550 --> 00:33:21,430 There is either one or possibly two outstanding offenders. 454 00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:25,710 It's really important that we get this third person into custody. The longer 455 00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:31,250 that... takes the more opportunity they have to dispose of any weapons, any 456 00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:36,630 clothing, dispose of any mobile phone, all things that may link them to the 457 00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:38,230 other suspects and the scene. 458 00:33:39,770 --> 00:33:44,050 I mean, with regards to the victim, actually, what's his current state at 459 00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:46,530 minute? Is he still stable? So he's critical but stable. 460 00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:49,570 They're still monitoring him. He's having regular scans. 461 00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:52,690 We'll see what happens with him over the next couple of days and I'll let you 462 00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:53,429 know. Yeah. 463 00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:54,470 All right. OK. 464 00:33:57,430 --> 00:34:03,290 Zed has widened his search for the three attackers on CCTV and alerts aid to new 465 00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:06,290 footage he's found from the brothers' local area. 466 00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:08,069 How are you getting on to it? 467 00:34:08,170 --> 00:34:10,030 If you sit down, I'll just lead you through it. 468 00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:18,190 Footage here shows suspect number two leaving his address. 469 00:34:18,570 --> 00:34:22,550 Yep. Climbing out of the house through the downstairs window. 470 00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:25,810 He then makes his way over the road. 471 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:32,380 to the other suspect's address, followed by suspect number one. OK. He takes the 472 00:34:32,380 --> 00:34:33,380 same route. 473 00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:38,460 Zed is able to track both brothers as they're joined by the third suspect 474 00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:40,340 minutes before the stabbing. 475 00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:49,020 Both suspects follow suspect number three and you see all three suspects as 476 00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:51,940 walk onto the road and in the direction of the car park. 477 00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:54,300 That's a good, clear image that is, isn't it? 478 00:34:57,130 --> 00:34:59,210 All three suspects chase the victim. 479 00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:06,490 We believe these three individuals have attacked the victim. This changes 480 00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:13,130 everything. We have a third suspect. We now know that that person lives in the 481 00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:14,730 same street as our two suspects. 482 00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:21,850 An arrest team heads to the new suspect's address. 483 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,740 Where they find a 15 -year -old who resembles the figure seen on CCTV. 484 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,720 Suspect 2, the older brother who was released on bail, is also re -arrested. 485 00:35:55,540 --> 00:35:59,860 We're here in relation to the incident that you were previously arrested for. 486 00:36:00,220 --> 00:36:03,540 Basically, we've had further evidence that we need to question you about. 487 00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,100 Where's your phone? We know you've got a phone here, mate. We can turn the place 488 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:09,960 upside down or you can give us the phone. 489 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,420 Give me the phone, otherwise... Stop being silly. 490 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,520 Stop being silly. 491 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,700 Did you hear what the allegation is regarding the attempt murder? 492 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:37,460 Vulnerable IP due to age? 493 00:36:37,820 --> 00:36:38,820 Yes. 494 00:36:39,860 --> 00:36:41,320 And what have you been arrested for? 495 00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:42,740 Attempted murder. 496 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,860 You've heard what the officers have said, so pop your hands out of there for 497 00:36:45,860 --> 00:36:46,459 please, mate. 498 00:36:46,460 --> 00:36:48,200 I am authorising your detention here. 499 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,420 That means you're going to remain here with us for a time so that we can secure 500 00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:53,020 and preserve evidence and you can be interviewed. 501 00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:54,300 All right. 502 00:37:00,750 --> 00:37:05,990 Police now have three teenagers in custody who are their prime suspects. 503 00:37:21,610 --> 00:37:26,510 So, I've got the phone download for suspect three's phone now. And there's 504 00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:27,510 of stuff on here with his mum. 505 00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:30,380 I know I do that to the kids. 506 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,900 I can't be arsed to shout up the stairs to them. 507 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,200 Sorry for this morning. When you wake me up angry, I get in a bad mood, but I 508 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,600 cleaned the kitchen and the living room for you. 509 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,500 It's like, aw, when you read stuff like this, you realise that they are only 510 00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:43,500 kids, aren't they? 511 00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:46,740 I'm going to click on to the notes section. 512 00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:53,540 So I've got 207 notes, and I can see already that there are some what looks 513 00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:54,540 rap lyrics. 514 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,180 And it might be a case of, if I go through all these lyrics, there might be 515 00:37:59,180 --> 00:38:00,380 something mentioned in the incident. 516 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,900 Teenagers will talk quite freely amongst each other when it comes to their 517 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:06,940 phones. They think it's a safe environment. 518 00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:10,840 They'll have, like, a false sense of security that what they're discussing 519 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,460 never be read by anybody and are often surprised when they are. 520 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,700 So, if we have a little listen. 521 00:38:24,140 --> 00:38:25,320 He's, like, sitting in the trap. 522 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Probably a car. 523 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:37,520 I chop it down to stones, which is 524 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,320 going to be potentially a reference to a drug line. 525 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,640 Looks like there's some stuff around drug dealers. 526 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,860 Some lists and some amounts. 527 00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:49,500 There's lots of references about... 528 00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:56,600 Chinging people, splashing people, wetting people, which all of them are in 529 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,600 reference to stabbing. 530 00:38:58,660 --> 00:39:02,920 Wearing ballys, balaclavas, shanks, which are knives. 531 00:39:03,380 --> 00:39:04,580 Certainly doesn't really paint. 532 00:39:04,780 --> 00:39:05,840 No pretty picture, does it? 533 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,860 Teenage slang. It's really hard to decipher sometimes. 534 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,780 You have to decode them. 535 00:39:13,220 --> 00:39:16,220 Latest one I've got was fleas. That was a new one on me. 536 00:39:17,130 --> 00:39:20,670 I thought that was a person for a while because people had some crazy street 537 00:39:20,670 --> 00:39:23,170 names and then it turned out that Fliz was bad. 538 00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:30,390 Difficulty is they share lyrics and they share songs with each other but it's 539 00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:32,610 hard to work out whether they're talking about something that has actually 540 00:39:32,610 --> 00:39:35,270 happened, whether it's something they want to get involved in or whether it's 541 00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:36,270 just pure fantasy. 542 00:39:36,650 --> 00:39:39,430 Trying to work out what's facts and what's fiction really. 543 00:39:41,090 --> 00:39:44,990 Sherry also examines a new unencrypted phone from Suspect 2. 544 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,120 which police found on him when he was re -arrested. 545 00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:55,180 He's got nearly 45 ,000 images on this phone, but I can filter them down. 546 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,860 This one here tags tonight's vibe of a male 547 00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:06,360 posing with what looks like a very large hunting knife. 548 00:40:07,140 --> 00:40:11,640 Now, his face is blurred out, but there's a second video, like literally 549 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,500 minutes after this, of suspect two, and I can see it's him. 550 00:40:14,910 --> 00:40:18,050 His face isn't blurred and he's wearing exactly the same clothing. 551 00:40:18,510 --> 00:40:24,090 So it looks like he has had, or has in his possession, a rather large hunting 552 00:40:24,090 --> 00:40:25,090 knife at some point. 553 00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:28,510 I mean, this kid here's got a Rambo knife. 554 00:40:28,750 --> 00:40:32,350 And these are all different kids. I don't know who they are, but they all 555 00:40:32,350 --> 00:40:34,830 about the same age, like mid to late teens. 556 00:40:35,770 --> 00:40:39,270 You're talking Rambo knives and zombie knives, they're that big. And they're 557 00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:40,270 deadly weapons. 558 00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:43,970 They're really blasé about it. They don't seem to care. 559 00:40:44,430 --> 00:40:48,970 that shouldn't just be a normal thing for you know 15 16 year olds to do but 560 00:40:48,970 --> 00:40:50,990 seems like it is these days 561 00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:57,790 sherry updates 562 00:40:57,790 --> 00:41:02,650 aids team to see whether any of these discoveries can be used as evidence 563 00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:07,090 profile two phone yeah that we've had off him there's a lot of pictures of 564 00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:11,870 isn't there they're looking at me are they vile they're like giant like 565 00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:12,870 knives 566 00:41:13,070 --> 00:41:18,270 I can't see anything that specifically mentions the incident itself that I can 567 00:41:18,270 --> 00:41:19,270 see. OK. 568 00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:24,930 Attempted murder is a very difficult crime to prove. We have to demonstrate 569 00:41:24,930 --> 00:41:31,130 the court that those individuals had the intention to kill the victim so that 570 00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:35,450 they jointly acted together in order to inflict that injury. Can we actually 571 00:41:35,450 --> 00:41:36,450 prove that? 572 00:41:40,490 --> 00:41:43,750 The knife used to attack the victim has not been found. 573 00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:50,090 So Jo meets with digital imaging specialist Lucy McGregor to analyse a 3D 574 00:41:50,090 --> 00:41:51,130 of his injuries. 575 00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:55,030 The stab wound would have been along this line somewhere. 576 00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:59,330 This is just a scar from where they've opened him up for surgery to assess the 577 00:41:59,330 --> 00:42:00,870 damage within his stomach area. 578 00:42:01,790 --> 00:42:07,230 The process, known as body mapping, may reveal clues to what kind of knife was 579 00:42:07,230 --> 00:42:08,230 used. 580 00:42:08,509 --> 00:42:12,230 It did a lot of damage on the inside, so there was wounds to the front and back 581 00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:16,650 walls of the stomach and also the left lobe of the liver was damaged as well, 582 00:42:16,650 --> 00:42:18,790 well as a laceration to the pancreas. 583 00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:21,610 The left kidney was also damaged and had to be removed. 584 00:42:22,090 --> 00:42:24,450 So it must have gone in quite deep then, hasn't it? 585 00:42:24,650 --> 00:42:25,750 Yeah, very deep, yeah. 586 00:42:26,490 --> 00:42:30,570 Body mapping is really useful because you can see the angle that the knife's 587 00:42:30,570 --> 00:42:31,570 gone in. 588 00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:35,570 There could be a whole range of scenarios of what position he was in, if 589 00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:38,290 moving at the time or was he crouched down when the knife came towards him. 590 00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:43,450 It's obviously quite a significant weapon to have caused those injuries. 591 00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:48,430 Whether it's perhaps gone in at an angle as well or kind of repeatedly gone in. 592 00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:51,310 Possibly an angle to then hit his kidney up here. 593 00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:56,570 There's a lot of questions and a lot of unknowns really of the kind of sequence 594 00:42:56,570 --> 00:42:57,570 of events. 595 00:42:58,060 --> 00:43:01,420 I think the impact is when you actually say, oh, my God, it's gone right through 596 00:43:01,420 --> 00:43:02,800 and it's nicked his kidney. 597 00:43:03,060 --> 00:43:07,320 But the frustrating part is the fact that we can't identify which weapon was 598 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,380 used and who actually used that weapon to cause the injury to the victim. 599 00:43:11,780 --> 00:43:14,220 This could kind of jeopardise the case, really. 600 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,120 On this particular CCTV footage, we've got all three suspects. 601 00:43:24,780 --> 00:43:28,080 as they make their way away from the crime scene to poke defence. 602 00:43:29,260 --> 00:43:34,800 After searching dozens more cameras, Zed has located the suspects fleeing down a 603 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,920 side street and found more than just images. 604 00:43:39,180 --> 00:43:45,660 It appears as if they are avoiding the main roads and this particular footage 605 00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:47,680 has audio recording. Brilliant. 606 00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:54,110 You can hear they're having a conversation amongst each other. 607 00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:58,050 I'll just adjust the setting here. 608 00:44:03,970 --> 00:44:08,170 So the one suspect says to the other, is that your blood? And he replies, no. 609 00:44:11,770 --> 00:44:14,750 Takes his jacket off and hands it to the other suspect. 610 00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:19,070 They then go off onto a side road. 611 00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:23,690 This particular footage here that we've obtained also has audio. 612 00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:29,050 He's quite far ahead of you, isn't he? Look, he's powering ahead. 613 00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:35,030 He's saying that he's dropped his shank. 614 00:44:35,290 --> 00:44:36,930 OK. So that he's dropped his weapon. 615 00:44:39,330 --> 00:44:43,390 One of the other suspects then said he's done the same. The third suspect says 616 00:44:43,390 --> 00:44:44,710 that he's in possession of his weapon. 617 00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:50,230 That CCTV with the audio is really a key find. 618 00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:56,850 All three suspects make reference to either being in possession of a knife or 619 00:44:56,850 --> 00:45:01,550 having been in possession of a knife, and clearly this is incriminating 620 00:45:01,550 --> 00:45:02,550 evidence. 621 00:45:05,590 --> 00:45:09,050 And all three then run off, off camera. 622 00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:14,050 You can hear the sirens in the background, can't you? I wonder if 623 00:45:14,050 --> 00:45:15,090 makes them start to run. 624 00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:21,700 The audio footage from the CCTV demonstrates that they were all armed 625 00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:22,700 weapons. 626 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:29,500 It suggests to me, really, that all three people jointly acted together in 627 00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:30,560 to inflict that injury. 628 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,280 One of them, it looks like he's holding his head. 629 00:45:36,220 --> 00:45:40,800 Right. You see here that right hand is touching the back of his head. 630 00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:45,990 I imagine he may have sustained an injury during this altercation. And I'm 631 00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:51,510 that suspect number one did sustain a head injury as well as an injury to his 632 00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:52,510 hand. 633 00:45:57,790 --> 00:46:01,670 All three suspects now face questioning about the new footage. 634 00:46:03,310 --> 00:46:06,010 Starting with 15 -year -old suspect three. 635 00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:08,250 I want to show you some footage. 636 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,700 And this has got sound, so I want you to pay attention to what you can hear as 637 00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:14,700 well. 638 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,100 Come and drop my shank. 639 00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:20,760 What does that mean? 640 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,100 His shank means knives, doesn't it? 641 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,860 So you're shouting back at them that you dropped your knives? 642 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,540 Do you agree that that's you who said that? 643 00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:37,100 Which one of the brothers said that? 644 00:46:39,810 --> 00:46:45,270 Suspect two, the older brother, who previously denied being at the scene, is 645 00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:46,750 next to be re -interviewed. 646 00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:54,250 I'm going to show you now some images of these three males entering the rear 647 00:46:54,250 --> 00:46:55,570 at Sainsbury's. 648 00:46:57,410 --> 00:47:01,430 I believe that person there is yourself. Can you tell me any different? 649 00:47:01,870 --> 00:47:02,870 No. 650 00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:06,630 What was your purpose of going on Sainsbury's car park? 651 00:47:06,970 --> 00:47:07,970 No. 652 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,240 Did you have a knife when you entered that car park? 653 00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:12,399 No comment. 654 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,400 You see, that person there has got an object in his hand. Can you tell me what 655 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:16,999 that is? 656 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:17,899 No comment. 657 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:18,900 Is it a knife? 658 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:19,960 No comment. 659 00:47:23,420 --> 00:47:28,460 Suspect 1 is also questioned about the evidence, which challenges his claim of 660 00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:29,460 self -defence. 661 00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,360 This is my final offer to you. Will you tell me in detail everything that 662 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,500 happened during that incident? 663 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,880 I reiterate, I am not guilty of attempt murder. 664 00:47:39,140 --> 00:47:41,140 I feel I am a victim in this case also. 665 00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:44,520 Had I not sent myself, I believe I would have been killed. 666 00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:46,420 I would make you no further comment. 667 00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:51,100 Right, 1742, and I'm switching the machine off, thank you. 668 00:48:00,660 --> 00:48:04,940 We have three suspects who have been present. 669 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:11,240 or have attacked our victim for me that diminishes the self -defense 670 00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:17,060 aspect that was put forward by suspect one and made it less believable 671 00:48:17,060 --> 00:48:23,960 so i now really need the victim's account to help build that 672 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,620 story that then gives the best understanding about what happened that 673 00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:41,180 Right, so do you want to talk me through basically what happened for you? 674 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,260 There's a breakthrough for the team. 675 00:48:44,660 --> 00:48:49,020 The victim is finally well enough to give a witness statement and reveal his 676 00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:50,020 version of events. 677 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,080 We had agreed on meeting up, just me and him. 678 00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:00,180 We never agreed on no fighting, no violence, but we just agreed on meeting 679 00:49:01,319 --> 00:49:05,560 He confirmed that suspect one arranged to meet him on the night of the 680 00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:07,140 He had sent me a snap. 681 00:49:07,340 --> 00:49:08,660 He said, oh, I'm on my way. 682 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,980 He was just saying he doesn't want problems. He was convincing me, making 683 00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:13,460 seem like, oh, it was all going to be fine. 684 00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:15,920 And when did you fall out with him? 685 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,120 We played for the same football team. He was my friend as well. 686 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,000 It's just we fell out after I had a problem with one of his friends who used 687 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,020 also play for that team. 688 00:49:24,340 --> 00:49:29,580 So you had a problem with me over... It was a play fight. 689 00:49:29,930 --> 00:49:31,830 That went too serious and he threatened to stab me. 690 00:49:33,590 --> 00:49:37,350 I look up and then I see three masked people running up at me. 691 00:49:41,950 --> 00:49:43,370 And then they pulled out their knives. 692 00:49:43,710 --> 00:49:44,710 Okay. 693 00:49:45,570 --> 00:49:49,870 His older brother had a kitchen knife and his other accomplice had two knives. 694 00:49:49,870 --> 00:49:52,390 don't know what type of knives though, but he took out two knives. 695 00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:58,470 So then I took out my knife and held it out towards them. Okay, so tell me what 696 00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:59,470 made you... 697 00:49:59,610 --> 00:50:01,550 Take your knife out at that point. 698 00:50:01,830 --> 00:50:05,070 Because I knew they were trying to kill me. That was their intention. 699 00:50:05,650 --> 00:50:08,530 What made you take that knife with you when you went to see him? 700 00:50:09,370 --> 00:50:13,170 I felt like the need to have something to protect myself just in case. 701 00:50:13,590 --> 00:50:15,010 Because I know the type of person he is. 702 00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:18,910 So what was your intention when you took that knife with you? 703 00:50:19,870 --> 00:50:22,330 For self -defence. I just wanted to keep it to myself. 704 00:50:22,770 --> 00:50:24,010 They were all running up at me. 705 00:50:24,310 --> 00:50:27,230 They were all just trying to swing at me and I was just trying to swing to keep 706 00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:28,230 them away from me. 707 00:50:28,350 --> 00:50:29,750 OK, so hold it there for a second. 708 00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:33,050 And what was your intention when you were just winding your knife? To get 709 00:50:33,050 --> 00:50:34,870 back, to get them to run away. 710 00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:38,390 They would go back to pretend they were going to go away, then they would come 711 00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:39,690 back again and try and attack me. 712 00:50:39,930 --> 00:50:41,110 They just wanted to kill me. 713 00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:43,410 Who's coming at you? 714 00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:44,810 They all took swings at me. 715 00:50:45,110 --> 00:50:48,210 It was like they were taking turns. They were playing with me. 716 00:50:48,430 --> 00:50:51,070 They knew they could kill me, but they were just playing with me. 717 00:50:53,350 --> 00:50:56,450 And that was when he just came and he stabbed me through. 718 00:50:57,610 --> 00:51:02,350 The victim named Suspect 1 as the person who stabbed him in the chest. 719 00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:05,210 I didn't feel pain. 720 00:51:05,590 --> 00:51:07,630 I just felt like there was something inside me. 721 00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:11,470 And then when he was trying to take it out, it was just like it jammed in my 722 00:51:11,470 --> 00:51:12,470 kidney. 723 00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:17,730 And that was when I swung as well, because the adrenaline kicked in. I 724 00:51:17,730 --> 00:51:20,450 remember. I'm pretty sure I cut him somewhere here on his arm. 725 00:51:21,410 --> 00:51:25,890 When you struck him with your knife, how many times did you do it? 726 00:51:26,940 --> 00:51:27,940 I can't remember. 727 00:51:28,020 --> 00:51:29,420 Pretty sure it was once or twice. 728 00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:33,860 I just started running down the road. I was running for my life because 729 00:51:33,860 --> 00:51:34,860 adrenaline had helped me. 730 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,160 I was just running. 731 00:51:39,380 --> 00:51:43,260 It's really pleasing that the victim's given us an account and that he is 732 00:51:43,260 --> 00:51:44,940 willing to support our investigation. 733 00:51:45,220 --> 00:51:48,360 But it's really important that we don't just take it at face value. 734 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,480 You know, we need to make sure that what we're being told is true. 735 00:52:01,610 --> 00:52:02,610 That's interesting. 736 00:52:03,150 --> 00:52:06,490 And there are some lyrics on here. 737 00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:11,550 One of them has actually got the street name of our victim in it as well. 738 00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:18,010 Sherry has been digging deeper into Suspect 2's new phone, which he used 739 00:52:18,010 --> 00:52:22,890 the offence, and hidden amongst the many notes, discovered a song lyric. 740 00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:26,530 Doctor NHS, are you taking the piss? 741 00:52:26,990 --> 00:52:30,170 And then the street name of our victim. Should have got packed that day. 742 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:31,960 But he got revived. 743 00:52:32,220 --> 00:52:35,660 Three shanks up. When we booked that prick, we done it all fliz. 744 00:52:36,260 --> 00:52:39,300 But we don't give a shit. 36 hours, banged up in cells. 745 00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:40,580 I ain't no rat. 746 00:52:40,660 --> 00:52:41,760 Don't talk to the pigs. 747 00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:44,240 Fuck. Street name of our victim. 748 00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:46,120 Should have been in Muscliffe. 749 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:48,940 They're mentioning our victim. 750 00:52:49,540 --> 00:52:53,100 They're mentioning the fact that he should have got packed that day, which 751 00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:56,700 suggest means body bagged, killed, but he got revived. 752 00:52:57,580 --> 00:52:59,820 Three shanks up. Three knives up. 753 00:53:01,290 --> 00:53:03,510 But I ain't no rat, don't talk to the pigs. 754 00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:08,930 Great. That first verse definitely sounds like what happened on the night. 755 00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:13,990 mentioning our victim and he's clearly very upset that the NHS managed to save 756 00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:14,990 his life. 757 00:53:16,330 --> 00:53:20,710 I find it mind -boggling that you would brag about nearly killing somebody. 758 00:53:21,290 --> 00:53:23,790 I just, I can't wrap my brain around that. 759 00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:27,330 It's like writing a confession down in the form of rap. 760 00:53:27,730 --> 00:53:29,210 It's so incriminating. 761 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:41,120 Aid meets with Joe to assess whether there's strong enough evidence to charge 762 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,180 all three teenagers with attempted murder. 763 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,240 Attempt murder is probably one of the hardest penalties because you've got to 764 00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:49,240 show that intent. 765 00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:51,860 We need to show that there was an intention to kill. 766 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,160 The victim is saying that he was attacked by all three people. 767 00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:00,980 We know from phones that there was potentially a... 768 00:54:01,550 --> 00:54:06,950 a meet -up arranged and therefore that they've gone there in order to like kind 769 00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:11,830 of sort out some issue like kind of between them I think that shows actually 770 00:54:11,830 --> 00:54:15,910 that they were all aware of what was going on that night it's good they got 771 00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:19,050 of three against one haven't you yeah yeah which shows that they were the 772 00:54:19,050 --> 00:54:24,530 aggressors yeah we know that suspect one has got some injuries but the severity 773 00:54:24,530 --> 00:54:28,300 of like kind of the victim's injuries the fact that he was on his own And the 774 00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:33,280 fact that obviously he's seen people running towards him, that evidence is an 775 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,000 element of planning, I think diminishes self -defence. 776 00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:42,040 Given that knife crime is such an issue, I think it's only sensible really that 777 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,660 we discuss that with CPS. 778 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:49,480 We've got mobile phone evidence, we've got CCTV evidence. 779 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:56,260 By putting it all together, that then helps us to show what had happened. 780 00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,900 and able to demonstrate to the court these three individuals have attacked 781 00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:04,700 victim and caused that very significant injury to him. 782 00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:12,740 Can you come and stand at the desk, please? Thank you. 783 00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:17,400 While going to be charged, they came with some very serious offences. 784 00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:23,760 The Crown Prosecution Service decides that all three suspects should face the 785 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:24,760 same charges. 786 00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:27,770 You're going to be charged with the following offences. 787 00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:29,850 First offence, attempted murder. 788 00:55:30,850 --> 00:55:35,430 Second charge, had with you in a public place an article which had a blade or 789 00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:37,410 was sharply pointed, namely a kitchen knife. 790 00:55:37,770 --> 00:55:42,530 I do know that you're 15 years of age and they are very serious and grave 791 00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:44,350 offences for which you've been charged. 792 00:55:46,350 --> 00:55:51,850 It is hard sometimes to step back and think, wow, these are only like 15, 16, 793 00:55:51,850 --> 00:55:52,850 -year -old kids. 794 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,600 When you really boil it down, we're not talking about grown adults here, we're 795 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,420 talking about kids that have got their whole lives in front of them. 796 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,440 What the hell are you doing? If you understand those charges, if you can 797 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,000 right here, that's not to say you're admitting to anything, it's just to say 798 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,000 that you've understood the charges. 799 00:56:45,230 --> 00:56:50,490 We never take the pleas to lesser offences lightly, but it's incredibly 800 00:56:50,490 --> 00:56:53,650 difficult in order to prove an attempted murder. And actually, I believe this 801 00:56:53,650 --> 00:56:55,570 was the right thing to do in these circumstances. 802 00:56:55,950 --> 00:57:01,270 We have achieved some justice for the victim and his family, and hopefully 803 00:57:01,270 --> 00:57:05,130 will set a clear message to young people to the dangers of knife crime and the 804 00:57:05,130 --> 00:57:06,130 dangers of carrying knives. 805 00:57:31,180 --> 00:57:35,520 Unfortunately, a case like this, you know, it affects so many people. 806 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,440 The victim has got now life -changing injuries for the rest of his life. 807 00:57:41,340 --> 00:57:46,140 I can only imagine what the victim's family, but also the suspect's family, 808 00:57:46,140 --> 00:57:47,140 going through. 809 00:57:47,900 --> 00:57:50,940 It's so sad that they've got their whole life ahead of them. 810 00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,200 You know, I'm sure they all had aspirations of what they wanted to do in 811 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,200 future. 812 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,160 You know, that's been taken away from them, really, from... 813 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,920 a moment of bad choices that they've all made. 814 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,440 Every contact leaves a trace that forensic experts can follow. 815 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,240 Explore it for yourself with the Open University's new interactive case 816 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:14,240 simulator. 817 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:21,640 Scan the QR code on screen or visit connect .open .ac .uk forward slash 70579

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