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Ambulance services the patient
breathing.
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Can you breathe? Can you breathe?
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Can you breathe? Can you breathe?
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Can you breathe?
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00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:15,000
Can you breathe?
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00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,720
Can you breathe?
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Can you breathe? Can you breathe? Can
you breathe? Can you breathe?
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Can you breathe?
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Can you breathe?
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Can you breathe?
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Hello?
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Hangar 4 -1 strong.
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Response officers from West Midlands
Police are on their way to a serious
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stabbing in South Birmingham.
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Death.
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Sound.
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Single male, massive trauma to his chest
and his belly.
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Stop moving, little man.
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How old are you, bro?
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The badly injured teen is taken to
hospital.
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Did you see anything, mate?
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Whilst officers try to find out what's
happened.
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I know, we just want to try to get your
details.
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They said
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they've ran out the back of this car
park and that's all we've got.
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They don't want to talk to us at all,
really, so... It's a bit difficult.
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Lads have found a knife. We're extending
the scene further up. Just hold.
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I'm conscious of disturbing any
evidence.
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The next
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morning,
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forensic investigator Andy Biggin.
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joined search officers to examine the
crime scene.
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I've done the big open area bits as well
and the drains we can see all of them
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actually with a torch.
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You can obviously see the silver kitchen
knife amongst what looks like duck down
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feathers which may have been from a
jacket of whoever's been involved in the
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altercation.
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The other side is quite heavily
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kind of sold with moisture, having been
on a wet ground.
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There is a teenage child fighting for
his life.
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The biggest challenge of the scene is
the sheer size to make sure nothing's
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missed.
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Because at this point, I'm unaware
exactly what happened, where it happened
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how it happened.
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It's a large, large zombie knife.
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25 metres away from the kitchen knife,
Andy recovers a second deadly weapon.
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Any utility of that's going to cause a
significant amount of injury.
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I'll photograph it with scale.
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I'll make notes of what I've identified
and we'll send it off to the major crime
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lab to have that.
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Examined. The knives were spread quite
far away from each other, which would
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suggest that the incident started in one
location and perhaps finished in
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another location.
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The offenders could have fled in any
direction.
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With the victim fighting for his life in
hospital, The case has escalated to the
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homicide team, led by Detective
Inspector Abe George.
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Morning all, then.
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So, briefing for Operation Tipping.
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We were called by members of the public
and also ambulance, saying that they
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were treating a male who'd been stabbed
to the chest.
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An arrival at the QE described as
actively dying due to his injuries.
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He's got stab wounds to his bowel and
his chest, his pancreas, his liver and
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kidney, and he's lost one kidney.
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This has a potential to become a murder
investigation.
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The victim can't be spoken to because
he's in intensive care.
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He can't tell us what's happened.
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Overnight, there's already been a major
development in the case.
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I have two teenagers, Lincoln's three,
who are brothers, both arrested from the
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same address.
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A 15 -year -old suspect with minor
injuries and his brother have been
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at a house near the crime scene.
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after police were alerted by the
ambulance service.
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So, first suspect is currently in
hospital with cuts to his hand and his
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He can't account for his injuries
because he can't remember how it
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etc.
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They come across his brother wearing a
jacket that's got black kind of slash
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marks on it.
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They've made, obviously, the assumption
that he could be involved and that he's
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also been locked up for attempt murder.
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Both brothers have been evasive with
police and will be interviewed in
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connection with the stabbing.
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I'm presented with two people that are
injured. One victim who's in hospital
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with serious life -threatening injuries,
but I also have the suspect who's also
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got injuries.
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So it makes it quite complex in terms of
what might have actually happened at
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the scene.
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It could be that this was a chance
meeting between the two.
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They've got involved in a fight and it
just so happens that the victim has come
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off worse.
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00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,800
It could be that the victim has been
attacked by multiple people.
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00:06:35,230 --> 00:06:37,150
There's a whole host of options that it
could be.
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And there are two witnesses that we're
aware of at this moment in time.
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Unfortunately, they wouldn't give
statements yesterday. They've told us
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categorically, go away, don't darken our
doorstep again.
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We don't want to give you any
statements.
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CCTV -wise, we've got the CCTV team who
are going out and doing recovery for us
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at the moment.
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OK? Thank you.
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Without any witnesses willing to talk to
them, aide and DC Denisa Briscoe need
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to gather more information from the
scene of the brothers' arrest.
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Officers were called to the brothers'
house an hour after the stabbing.
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when paramedics noticed signs of a knife
fight.
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I
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mean,
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he's obviously told the officers that
he's been hit, but he's not really,
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kind of disclosing how he's been hit.
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I know, he seems to be quite vague about
what happened.
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If you're truly innocent, why not give
us a full account? Why not tell us now
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exactly what happened?
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I think
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you can
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probably see from that injury to his
hand and the injury to his other finger,
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looks like a slash mark of some kind.
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It feels to me at this moment in time
that he's not particularly forthcoming
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with information because perhaps he
knows that he's been involved in some
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of criminality.
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This is the second suspect, his older
brother, returning to the address.
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Hello. What's your name, fella?
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Listen, keep your hands where I can see
them. What?
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What?
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I haven't.
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He looks like he's got bits of fluff in
his hair.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, there's bits of this kind of stuff
near to where the victim was stabbed.
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00:09:03,890 --> 00:09:08,610
The issue that we've got, it's all
circumstantial, so it doesn't actually
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that they were part of that offence.
Where we don't have any sort of direct
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evidence, it does make things more
difficult.
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I'm hoping that forensics are going to
be able to tell me exactly what
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The victim received a single stab wound
to his stomach.
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but i have two suspects so the question
is who's stabbed him
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lead
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forensic investigator joe ward assesses
evidence gathered from the crime scene
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to be sent for urgent testing you can
see quite a large
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kitchen knife
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The concern is straight away for me is
that it appears wet.
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I think it's been raining, which may
destroy any DNA that's on there.
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00:10:04,620 --> 00:10:07,440
It's really unusual to find weapons at
the scene.
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00:10:07,780 --> 00:10:11,980
Normally, when we've got a scene where
someone's been stabbed or injured, the
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weapons are nowhere to be seen.
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00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:16,140
So this is a real golden nugget for us.
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00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,860
And then there's another knife.
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00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,840
In fact, it's a very large machete. I'm
quite shocked.
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00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,900
that could do some serious damage. Young
people are walking around carrying
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these large weapons.
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It's quite scary.
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I've certainly seen over the years the
weapons getting bigger.
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The zombie knives, the machetes, the way
it's designed is meant to kill. When I
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was younger, if there was a fight, it
involved fists, but now, unfortunately,
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you're carrying something, you'll reach
for that weapon.
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For us, it gives us forensic
opportunities to...
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00:10:50,970 --> 00:10:54,370
know certainly identify if there's any
blood on those weapons but also who's
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handled those weapons as well
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first
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technician holly roscola examines the
kitchen knife for fingerprint ridge
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that may help police identify the
attacker i'm using a
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range of light sources to see if i can
find any visible mark
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so i'm just going to look at the blade
of the
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knife i'm currently using uv
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and i'm just trying to see if there's
any rich detail
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that may be exposed from the light
sources
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The blade is negative for any marks.
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I'm going to look at the handle now.
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And I can see some ridge detail on the
handle of the knife.
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It's just there.
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But there's not enough to be able to
send up to the fingerprint bureau.
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So I'm going to class this as being no
value.
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As you can imagine, a kitchen knife you
use regularly, so what tends to happen
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is you get overlay of an overlay of
fingerprints, so it's quite hard
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to actually be able to get a decent
identifiable fingerprint from it.
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The focus turns to the 16 -inch machete,
which is taken to be swabbed for DNA.
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And I'll go ahead and I will take a
handler sample.
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This is to recover any possible cellular
material of anyone who has handled the
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knife.
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00:13:00,170 --> 00:13:06,470
So I've spotted some red -brown staining
visible here on the cutting edge of the
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blade.
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And then you put a dap of KM on.
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A drop of H2O2.
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And there we have a nice pink reaction,
which is an indication that there is
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blood present.
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00:13:23,770 --> 00:13:30,130
So they get cut off and then put in an
ortho -life tube, which will then get
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sent to DNA.
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We don't need an awful lot of blood
nowadays to obtain a DNA profile from
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No, we only need a pinprick -sized
sample.
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If this comes back to the victim, we can
say that this knife has been used to
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cause these injuries to the victim, and
then it's about trying to identify if
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one of the brothers actually handled
that knife.
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While the victim remains critically ill
in hospital, suspect one, the 15 -year
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-old who was also injured, is now fit to
be questioned.
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00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,860
So, everything that we're seeing now is
being audio and video recorded.
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00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,980
When I interview juveniles, I always try
to bear in mind the fact that they are
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children at the end of the day, and they
might be scared, they might have never
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00:14:23,420 --> 00:14:27,320
been in police custody before, so it can
be quite challenging to get them to
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00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,320
open up.
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00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:35,720
So, tell us about your involvement in
this incident, if any at all.
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I've got prepared statements, but we
don't.
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I deny the allegation of attempted
murder. I will maintain that I am the
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00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,240
of a crime. I sustained injuries of a
very serious nature. All these injuries
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00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,580
were sustained by a knife attack that I
was subjected to. I will maintain that I
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acted in self -defense.
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00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,920
I thought my own life was in danger. I
responded reasonably.
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00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,720
I see your right hand in a cast.
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Talk to me about how that knife caused
that injury.
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00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:15,320
I remember I was hit first with the
knife. Yeah, I chopped the knife.
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Yes. I put my hand up.
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Like this. The camera can see it now. To
block it. Yeah. And then, yeah, I
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00:15:22,740 --> 00:15:24,440
chopped my hand.
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00:15:25,020 --> 00:15:26,360
And then what happened after that?
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After that, I can't really remember.
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00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,100
I think I fell on the ground or
something.
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00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,400
I think, yeah, I think I fell on the
ground and then something hit me on the
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00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,600
back of my head. After that, I think I
was knocked down.
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He accepts his presence at the scene,
but states that he was the one that was
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attacked and he was just defending
himself.
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00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:50,870
So it makes it difficult to establish
who is, you know, a suspect and who is a
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00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:51,870
victim.
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00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:56,990
You say or maintain that I acted in self
-defense, and then you say, I responded
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reasonably.
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00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:01,530
Tell me about how you responded.
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00:16:02,390 --> 00:16:03,390
Not coming.
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00:16:04,070 --> 00:16:05,150
Did you stab him?
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00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:06,630
Not coming.
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00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:23,350
Self -defence is a really tricky one for
us to prove, but also for us to
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00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:24,350
disprove.
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00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:25,790
It's not clear -cut.
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We are going to have to look at, was he
acting reasonably and proportionately?
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00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:32,790
Did he feel that his own life was...
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you know in danger that he needed to
like kind of lash out and so therefore
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00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,400
forensics are going to be really key in
helping us build up a picture about what
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00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,160
happened and how he came by those
injuries
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00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:48,020
to
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00:16:48,020 --> 00:16:54,940
help
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00:16:54,940 --> 00:17:00,180
investigate suspect wand claim of self
-defense joe assesses the victim's
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00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:03,280
clothing for signs of how the attack
unfolded.
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00:17:06,740 --> 00:17:11,900
As you can see, it's been cut down the
middle, which has been caused by the
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00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:13,119
ambulance at the scene.
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00:17:13,579 --> 00:17:14,859
They put it back together.
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Fucking cheeky poor fossil, this is.
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Was it a prolonged attack?
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00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:26,599
They just attempted stabbing once to
then prove whether it was self -defense
240
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:27,599
quite difficult.
241
00:17:28,030 --> 00:17:32,890
We know a victim suffered one stab wound
to the chest, but a victim's clothing
242
00:17:32,890 --> 00:17:36,390
can tell you a completely different
story to what you actually see on the
243
00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:42,190
Sometimes on clothing we see more
attempted kind of stab wounds and that
244
00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:45,570
because, you know, the victim's running
away or is moving and the weapon's only
245
00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:48,690
just managed to actually cause the
damage but not actually penetrated
246
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:49,690
the skin.
247
00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:55,650
Straight away I can kind of see damage
mark here and then a bit lower down,
248
00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:56,710
of the waist area.
249
00:17:57,340 --> 00:17:59,620
Again, it appears to have been caused by
a sharp instrument.
250
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,660
And that's gone all the way through, but
there's no corresponding marks in the T
251
00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:07,840
-shirt. And the question is, has the
weapon made contact with the actual coat
252
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,020
itself? It's gone through, but then not
penetrated the actual T -shirt.
253
00:18:12,260 --> 00:18:16,020
This clothing tells us that the attempt
on the actual victim itself was more
254
00:18:16,020 --> 00:18:17,160
than just that one stab wound.
255
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:22,240
It really highlights the level of force
that was used, how frenzied the
256
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,240
attacker's been.
257
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:26,700
It's likely that his thick coat saved
his life.
258
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:28,210
He's looking to be alive.
259
00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:39,870
Police now want to interview the older
brother, suspect two, whose own coat had
260
00:18:39,870 --> 00:18:41,950
apparent flash marks when he was
arrested.
261
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:45,930
Did you have any involvement in this
incident?
262
00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:49,690
I've got a prepared statement with half
my client.
263
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,560
I denied the allegation of attempted
murder. I'm not responsible for this
264
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,360
offence. I've not instigated or stopped
anyone at all.
265
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,100
On the night in question, I was at home.
266
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:06,700
It was only after my brother went to
hospital that I flew on the coat that he
267
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:09,200
was wearing that evening. That is my
brother's coat.
268
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,340
This is because once the police and
ambulance left, I was not thinking
269
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:15,340
and I went outside to go and see what
happened.
270
00:19:16,110 --> 00:19:19,130
I'll not be on CCTV at the time of the
incident.
271
00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:21,170
I deny the allegation entirely.
272
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:22,810
Thank you.
273
00:19:25,670 --> 00:19:31,350
OK, so you threw on the coat he was
wearing that evening.
274
00:19:32,050 --> 00:19:36,830
What exactly made you put his coat on as
opposed to your own coat?
275
00:19:37,210 --> 00:19:42,770
I'm trying to keep an open mind as to
what might have happened and there is a
276
00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:45,150
possibility that he's telling the truth,
that he was not involved.
277
00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:50,550
But then equally, there is also a
possibility that he's either covering
278
00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:53,010
brother or he's also an offender.
279
00:19:54,550 --> 00:19:56,290
OK, I haven't got any further questions.
280
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:58,130
Easy to be concluded.
281
00:20:02,790 --> 00:20:06,290
At this moment in time, I can't
categorically say that he's involved
282
00:20:06,290 --> 00:20:08,150
incident. You know, this is a juvenile.
283
00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:11,370
So I have a limited amount of time I can
keep him in custody.
284
00:20:12,370 --> 00:20:15,430
Is the forensic evidence going to
actually tie him to the scene?
285
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,620
With Suspect 2 claiming the ripped
jacket belongs to his younger brother,
286
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:35,560
sent for urgent DNA testing to see if
they can confirm who was wearing it
287
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:36,560
the attack.
288
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,060
The first thing I'm going to do is take
a wearer sample.
289
00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:47,760
So I'm going to start by mini taping the
inside collar.
290
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,120
the surface comes in contact with the
skin it can leave behind little skin
291
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,720
flakes and oils and stuff and that's
just what we're picking up on the tape
292
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,820
it should pick up any cellular dna
that's in that area what we need to do
293
00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:11,480
establish you know whose jacket that is
however although they don't share the
294
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,760
same dna because everyone's got their
own unique dna because they live
295
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:22,130
and they may share that jacket it may
prove difficult to actually say who's to
296
00:21:22,130 --> 00:21:24,490
wear off that jacket at the time of the
attack.
297
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:31,090
I'm just looking at this area of damage
to the hood.
298
00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:37,050
The cuts have quite a straight edge to
them, so it does look like the hood has
299
00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:43,670
been cut by a sharp object such as a
knife, rather than if it is
300
00:21:43,670 --> 00:21:47,750
torn, the edges would look quite frayed
and different.
301
00:21:48,350 --> 00:21:53,990
There's quite a bit of red -brown
staining here that looks like it could
302
00:21:53,990 --> 00:22:00,630
blood. So I'm just going to use my
scalpel to cut out a small area with
303
00:22:00,630 --> 00:22:07,130
stain. I can get those samples sent off
to DNA now and we'll see if we can get a
304
00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:08,130
profile.
305
00:22:13,670 --> 00:22:15,930
This jacket is really crucial to this
investigation.
306
00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:21,380
If that blood comes back to victim,
then, you know, that would suggest that
307
00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:26,500
person wearing that jacket was certainly
at that scene and in close proximity to
308
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:29,060
the actual victim and involved in this
incident.
309
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:34,140
Right, OK.
310
00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:40,680
So that's the Sainsbury's camera. That
camera is looking along that frontage,
311
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:41,800
it's pointing in that direction.
312
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:46,840
I've been able to get various items of
footage.
313
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:54,320
CCTV specialist Zed Ahmed is piecing
together footage from numerous cameras
314
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,780
in an attempt to track the movements of
the brothers and victim on the night of
315
00:22:59,780 --> 00:23:00,780
the attack.
316
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,820
CCTV work, it's quite niche and I think
one needs a lot of patience.
317
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,940
It's really important that you don't
miss any detail.
318
00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:18,090
Because CCTV footage doesn't lie, it
acts as a kind of reconstruction tool.
319
00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:24,370
This is a short walk away from where the
stabbing took place.
320
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:31,010
I can see the victim go to McDonald's
with two other females.
321
00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:40,910
You need to be cautious when watching.
322
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:42,520
nighttime footage.
323
00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:43,540
It's grainy.
324
00:23:43,740 --> 00:23:45,580
It can be quite misleading sometimes.
325
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,280
You can get the wrong impression.
326
00:23:47,540 --> 00:23:50,000
So that's really important to keep an
open mind.
327
00:23:57,540 --> 00:24:00,380
He's in McDonald's for quite some time.
328
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:02,360
I just run it forward.
329
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,560
Two minutes past midnight, he leaves by
himself.
330
00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:14,690
Unfortunately for us, that part of the
main road is not covered by CCTV cameras
331
00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:16,230
and I can't track him any further.
332
00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:21,210
It's chilling to think that he will be
stabbed soon after this.
333
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:38,530
So, I just thought I'd update you
because I've just had the results back.
334
00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:43,930
Both knives found at the scene and the
ripped jacket have been tested for DNA.
335
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:50,750
So if I start off with the silver
kitchen knife, no blood was found on
336
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:52,410
there's no fingerprints that were found.
337
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:58,850
Then we go on to the machete, so there
was blood that was found on the actual
338
00:24:58,850 --> 00:25:02,230
blade, but that's come back to suspect
one.
339
00:25:05,370 --> 00:25:11,690
There was DNA that was taken from the
handle and that has actually come back
340
00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:12,710
the victim.
341
00:25:13,170 --> 00:25:17,230
Okay. So, suggesting that that was the
victim's knife.
342
00:25:18,610 --> 00:25:19,870
Okay, that's interesting.
343
00:25:20,490 --> 00:25:22,370
Why was the victim carrying a knife?
344
00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:26,130
If he's had to go somewhere to meet
somebody with a knife, he's potentially
345
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:27,290
expecting some trouble.
346
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:29,390
They've both stabbed each other.
347
00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:31,950
Who struck who first?
348
00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:41,670
Blood on the outside of the jacket has
been profiled to suspect one, but no
349
00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:46,450
victim's blood, so that fits in with the
account of suspect two, that he's
350
00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:50,570
actually borrowed his brother's jacket
after the event.
351
00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:54,730
I'm not sure if you've been given an
update from the prepared statement that
352
00:25:54,730 --> 00:25:58,490
suspect one gave in interview, which was
that effectively he was acting in self
353
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:01,870
-defence, he was attacked, and that's
obviously why he's lashed out.
354
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:09,180
So obviously some of those results does
go some way to support his account.
355
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,820
I'll be sorting out your bail. So you
are going to be released from custody
356
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:20,060
today, but there are going to be certain
bail conditions that are going to be
357
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:21,080
attached to you by the law.
358
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:29,360
So far, none of the forensic evidence
links suspect 2, the older brother, to
359
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:30,360
stabbing.
360
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:35,280
I don't feel that we've gathered enough
evidence that we can go and approach the
361
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,320
Crown Prosecution Service in order to
authorise charges.
362
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:41,700
It may actually be the evidence doesn't
exist because he's not involved, but
363
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:45,340
equally the investigation will continue.
It doesn't stop just because someone's
364
00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:46,760
been bailed. Thank you, Sergeant.
365
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:53,420
Whilst suspect two is released on bail,
his younger brother remains in custody.
366
00:27:06,510 --> 00:27:10,190
So we've received in both Suspect 1 and
Suspect 2's devices.
367
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:13,770
I'm going to take initial photographs of
both of these.
368
00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:18,830
In a bid to find a motive for the attack
that connects the brothers to the
369
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:23,190
victim, all three teenagers' phones are
sent for data to be downloaded.
370
00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:28,550
Suspect 1's device, it's very damaged.
371
00:27:28,770 --> 00:27:33,310
The camera smashed, the back smashed, a
slight crack into the front of the
372
00:27:33,310 --> 00:27:34,299
device.
373
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,140
just has to be very careful when we're
extracting the data from this
374
00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:49,980
just
375
00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:55,260
showing that the device is encrypted
apple devices are notoriously difficult
376
00:27:55,260 --> 00:28:00,500
get into doesn't look like we've picked
up a lot from images videos or chats
377
00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:06,270
There's literally next to nothing.
378
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:09,650
Now, starting on suspect two's device.
379
00:28:15,790 --> 00:28:19,850
I'm not actually seeing a lot of images,
videos, or any kind of media
380
00:28:19,850 --> 00:28:20,850
whatsoever.
381
00:28:20,890 --> 00:28:25,650
Doesn't appear like there's much data
from the extraction at all, because it's
382
00:28:25,650 --> 00:28:26,650
probably a new phone, that's why.
383
00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:32,170
Although the suspect's devices are
encrypted, the victim's phone is
384
00:28:33,130 --> 00:28:38,310
and the data downloaded for digital
media investigator Sherry Watkins to
385
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:39,310
analyse.
386
00:28:39,570 --> 00:28:45,010
When it comes to digital evidence these
days, it's one of the most crucial
387
00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:48,510
elements of an investigation, especially
when you're dealing with teenagers.
388
00:28:49,090 --> 00:28:53,290
They are addicted to their phones. The
phones are the world. They're
389
00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:59,590
So I know that the victim's phone was
used to phone 999, so that call, I've
390
00:28:59,590 --> 00:29:00,590
that on here.
391
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,400
That was at 0049 hours.
392
00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:09,340
I'm going to go back a couple of hours
and see if there's any content of note
393
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:10,340
there.
394
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,440
The first thing I want to do is look to
see if there's any contact between the
395
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,000
victim and one of the suspects.
396
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,380
Chances are, with the age, it's going to
be Snapchat, TikTok, because kids
397
00:29:20,380 --> 00:29:24,320
rarely use network calls, network text
messages these days. It's usually all
398
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,320
apps.
399
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,180
He's got some stuff on here that I'd
usually find on teenagers' phones.
400
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:35,160
Chat here where he's swapping rap songs
with somebody.
401
00:29:35,420 --> 00:29:39,480
A lot of it's just chats with friends by
the look of it, maybe a girlfriend.
402
00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:41,840
What else have we got?
403
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,600
He's using Snapchat quite a lot.
404
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,220
You can do direct messaging, but the
thing with Snapchat that attracts a lot
405
00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:51,300
them to it is the fact that it
disappears quickly afterwards.
406
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,820
So the content's gone, it can't be
retrieved. But we have got some data
407
00:29:56,820 --> 00:29:57,820
comes back on the phone.
408
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:05,500
From the data, Sherry is able to
pinpoint communications between the
409
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:06,500
suspect one.
410
00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:12,520
Looks like there's a large volume of
messages between nine o 'clock at night
411
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,860
quarter to one, which is pretty much
like a couple of minutes before this all
412
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:17,799
kicks off.
413
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,640
And there are 242 messages and they're
literally like bang, bang, bang, bang,
414
00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:25,820
bang. And there's a couple of phone
calls, there's some video calls on
415
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,000
But annoyingly, I can't see any of the
content.
416
00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:32,040
It does make me wonder what was being
said.
417
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,640
As much as it's frustrating because I
don't have the content, those messages
418
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,640
were being bandied back and forth and
they literally finished seconds before
419
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,560
attack had taken place, which would
suggest that there was potentially a
420
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,800
prearranged meet between the victim and
suspect one.
421
00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:07,210
Got some further footage here from the
Sainsbury's car park.
422
00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:13,110
With the phone data suggesting a planned
meeting, Zed has tracked the victim to
423
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:18,010
the car park close to where he was found
stabbed and discovered a major lead.
424
00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:21,250
I can see he's on his mobile phone.
425
00:31:23,050 --> 00:31:26,650
He's now walking backwards and forwards.
426
00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:30,390
I wonder whether he's waiting there for
somebody.
427
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,240
To the left of the frame, I can see
three individuals running in the
428
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:42,240
of the victim.
429
00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:48,960
The victim is walking off to the right
of the screen and these three
430
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,960
are chasing him.
431
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:55,960
Three individuals that are involved in
this incident. That's significant, that
432
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:56,960
is.
433
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,860
Who is this third suspect?
434
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,660
Who is doing what?
435
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120
The footage is not the clearest. It's
dark at the time.
436
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:07,540
Their faces are covered.
437
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,060
They're wearing dark clothing.
438
00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:15,340
At this moment, I'm unable to identify
who the actual suspects are.
439
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:22,000
If I just pause it there and take it
back slightly, I've just noticed
440
00:32:22,180 --> 00:32:24,960
I've zoomed in here onto the CCTV
footage.
441
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,020
And just there, something that caught my
eye.
442
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:34,840
He's clearly holding an item that's
shiny. It's got a reflective quality.
443
00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:38,200
It's certainly consistent with a knife.
444
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,940
And he's holding that in his right hand
as he's running in the direction of the
445
00:32:41,940 --> 00:32:44,660
victim. I imagine to attack him.
446
00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:51,880
The victim and the individuals have gone
off the screen.
447
00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:56,160
And I don't think I've got footage from
that particular location.
448
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:59,560
Is it a setup?
449
00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:04,990
It's very difficult then for a suspect
to argue that they acted in self
450
00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:08,910
and therefore used reasonable force if
actually what they've done is arranged
451
00:33:08,910 --> 00:33:11,390
meet somebody with a view to having some
disorder with them.
452
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:17,050
There's obviously still some outstanding
offenders.
453
00:33:17,550 --> 00:33:21,430
There is either one or possibly two
outstanding offenders.
454
00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:25,710
It's really important that we get this
third person into custody. The longer
455
00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:31,250
that... takes the more opportunity they
have to dispose of any weapons, any
456
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:36,630
clothing, dispose of any mobile phone,
all things that may link them to the
457
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:38,230
other suspects and the scene.
458
00:33:39,770 --> 00:33:44,050
I mean, with regards to the victim,
actually, what's his current state at
459
00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:46,530
minute? Is he still stable? So he's
critical but stable.
460
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:49,570
They're still monitoring him. He's
having regular scans.
461
00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:52,690
We'll see what happens with him over the
next couple of days and I'll let you
462
00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:53,429
know. Yeah.
463
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:54,470
All right. OK.
464
00:33:57,430 --> 00:34:03,290
Zed has widened his search for the three
attackers on CCTV and alerts aid to new
465
00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:06,290
footage he's found from the brothers'
local area.
466
00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:08,069
How are you getting on to it?
467
00:34:08,170 --> 00:34:10,030
If you sit down, I'll just lead you
through it.
468
00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:18,190
Footage here shows suspect number two
leaving his address.
469
00:34:18,570 --> 00:34:22,550
Yep. Climbing out of the house through
the downstairs window.
470
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:25,810
He then makes his way over the road.
471
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:32,380
to the other suspect's address, followed
by suspect number one. OK. He takes the
472
00:34:32,380 --> 00:34:33,380
same route.
473
00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:38,460
Zed is able to track both brothers as
they're joined by the third suspect
474
00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:40,340
minutes before the stabbing.
475
00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:49,020
Both suspects follow suspect number
three and you see all three suspects as
476
00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:51,940
walk onto the road and in the direction
of the car park.
477
00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:54,300
That's a good, clear image that is,
isn't it?
478
00:34:57,130 --> 00:34:59,210
All three suspects chase the victim.
479
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:06,490
We believe these three individuals have
attacked the victim. This changes
480
00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:13,130
everything. We have a third suspect. We
now know that that person lives in the
481
00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:14,730
same street as our two suspects.
482
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:21,850
An arrest team heads to the new
suspect's address.
483
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,740
Where they find a 15 -year -old who
resembles the figure seen on CCTV.
484
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,720
Suspect 2, the older brother who was
released on bail, is also re -arrested.
485
00:35:55,540 --> 00:35:59,860
We're here in relation to the incident
that you were previously arrested for.
486
00:36:00,220 --> 00:36:03,540
Basically, we've had further evidence
that we need to question you about.
487
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,100
Where's your phone? We know you've got a
phone here, mate. We can turn the place
488
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:09,960
upside down or you can give us the
phone.
489
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,420
Give me the phone, otherwise... Stop
being silly.
490
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,520
Stop being silly.
491
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,700
Did you hear what the allegation is
regarding the attempt murder?
492
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:37,460
Vulnerable IP due to age?
493
00:36:37,820 --> 00:36:38,820
Yes.
494
00:36:39,860 --> 00:36:41,320
And what have you been arrested for?
495
00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:42,740
Attempted murder.
496
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,860
You've heard what the officers have
said, so pop your hands out of there for
497
00:36:45,860 --> 00:36:46,459
please, mate.
498
00:36:46,460 --> 00:36:48,200
I am authorising your detention here.
499
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,420
That means you're going to remain here
with us for a time so that we can secure
500
00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:53,020
and preserve evidence and you can be
interviewed.
501
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:54,300
All right.
502
00:37:00,750 --> 00:37:05,990
Police now have three teenagers in
custody who are their prime suspects.
503
00:37:21,610 --> 00:37:26,510
So, I've got the phone download for
suspect three's phone now. And there's
504
00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:27,510
of stuff on here with his mum.
505
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:30,380
I know I do that to the kids.
506
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,900
I can't be arsed to shout up the stairs
to them.
507
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,200
Sorry for this morning. When you wake me
up angry, I get in a bad mood, but I
508
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,600
cleaned the kitchen and the living room
for you.
509
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,500
It's like, aw, when you read stuff like
this, you realise that they are only
510
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:43,500
kids, aren't they?
511
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:46,740
I'm going to click on to the notes
section.
512
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:53,540
So I've got 207 notes, and I can see
already that there are some what looks
513
00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:54,540
rap lyrics.
514
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,180
And it might be a case of, if I go
through all these lyrics, there might be
515
00:37:59,180 --> 00:38:00,380
something mentioned in the incident.
516
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,900
Teenagers will talk quite freely amongst
each other when it comes to their
517
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:06,940
phones. They think it's a safe
environment.
518
00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:10,840
They'll have, like, a false sense of
security that what they're discussing
519
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,460
never be read by anybody and are often
surprised when they are.
520
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,700
So, if we have a little listen.
521
00:38:24,140 --> 00:38:25,320
He's, like, sitting in the trap.
522
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,080
Probably a car.
523
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:37,520
I chop it down to stones, which is
524
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,320
going to be potentially a reference to a
drug line.
525
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,640
Looks like there's some stuff around
drug dealers.
526
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,860
Some lists and some amounts.
527
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:49,500
There's lots of references about...
528
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:56,600
Chinging people, splashing people,
wetting people, which all of them are in
529
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,600
reference to stabbing.
530
00:38:58,660 --> 00:39:02,920
Wearing ballys, balaclavas, shanks,
which are knives.
531
00:39:03,380 --> 00:39:04,580
Certainly doesn't really paint.
532
00:39:04,780 --> 00:39:05,840
No pretty picture, does it?
533
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,860
Teenage slang. It's really hard to
decipher sometimes.
534
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,780
You have to decode them.
535
00:39:13,220 --> 00:39:16,220
Latest one I've got was fleas. That was
a new one on me.
536
00:39:17,130 --> 00:39:20,670
I thought that was a person for a while
because people had some crazy street
537
00:39:20,670 --> 00:39:23,170
names and then it turned out that Fliz
was bad.
538
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:30,390
Difficulty is they share lyrics and they
share songs with each other but it's
539
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:32,610
hard to work out whether they're talking
about something that has actually
540
00:39:32,610 --> 00:39:35,270
happened, whether it's something they
want to get involved in or whether it's
541
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:36,270
just pure fantasy.
542
00:39:36,650 --> 00:39:39,430
Trying to work out what's facts and
what's fiction really.
543
00:39:41,090 --> 00:39:44,990
Sherry also examines a new unencrypted
phone from Suspect 2.
544
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,120
which police found on him when he was re
-arrested.
545
00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:55,180
He's got nearly 45 ,000 images on this
phone, but I can filter them down.
546
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,860
This one here tags tonight's vibe of a
male
547
00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:06,360
posing with what looks like a very large
hunting knife.
548
00:40:07,140 --> 00:40:11,640
Now, his face is blurred out, but
there's a second video, like literally
549
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,500
minutes after this, of suspect two, and
I can see it's him.
550
00:40:14,910 --> 00:40:18,050
His face isn't blurred and he's wearing
exactly the same clothing.
551
00:40:18,510 --> 00:40:24,090
So it looks like he has had, or has in
his possession, a rather large hunting
552
00:40:24,090 --> 00:40:25,090
knife at some point.
553
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:28,510
I mean, this kid here's got a Rambo
knife.
554
00:40:28,750 --> 00:40:32,350
And these are all different kids. I
don't know who they are, but they all
555
00:40:32,350 --> 00:40:34,830
about the same age, like mid to late
teens.
556
00:40:35,770 --> 00:40:39,270
You're talking Rambo knives and zombie
knives, they're that big. And they're
557
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:40,270
deadly weapons.
558
00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:43,970
They're really blasé about it. They
don't seem to care.
559
00:40:44,430 --> 00:40:48,970
that shouldn't just be a normal thing
for you know 15 16 year olds to do but
560
00:40:48,970 --> 00:40:50,990
seems like it is these days
561
00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:57,790
sherry updates
562
00:40:57,790 --> 00:41:02,650
aids team to see whether any of these
discoveries can be used as evidence
563
00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:07,090
profile two phone yeah that we've had
off him there's a lot of pictures of
564
00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:11,870
isn't there they're looking at me are
they vile they're like giant like
565
00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:12,870
knives
566
00:41:13,070 --> 00:41:18,270
I can't see anything that specifically
mentions the incident itself that I can
567
00:41:18,270 --> 00:41:19,270
see. OK.
568
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:24,930
Attempted murder is a very difficult
crime to prove. We have to demonstrate
569
00:41:24,930 --> 00:41:31,130
the court that those individuals had the
intention to kill the victim so that
570
00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:35,450
they jointly acted together in order to
inflict that injury. Can we actually
571
00:41:35,450 --> 00:41:36,450
prove that?
572
00:41:40,490 --> 00:41:43,750
The knife used to attack the victim has
not been found.
573
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:50,090
So Jo meets with digital imaging
specialist Lucy McGregor to analyse a 3D
574
00:41:50,090 --> 00:41:51,130
of his injuries.
575
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:55,030
The stab wound would have been along
this line somewhere.
576
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:59,330
This is just a scar from where they've
opened him up for surgery to assess the
577
00:41:59,330 --> 00:42:00,870
damage within his stomach area.
578
00:42:01,790 --> 00:42:07,230
The process, known as body mapping, may
reveal clues to what kind of knife was
579
00:42:07,230 --> 00:42:08,230
used.
580
00:42:08,509 --> 00:42:12,230
It did a lot of damage on the inside, so
there was wounds to the front and back
581
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:16,650
walls of the stomach and also the left
lobe of the liver was damaged as well,
582
00:42:16,650 --> 00:42:18,790
well as a laceration to the pancreas.
583
00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:21,610
The left kidney was also damaged and had
to be removed.
584
00:42:22,090 --> 00:42:24,450
So it must have gone in quite deep then,
hasn't it?
585
00:42:24,650 --> 00:42:25,750
Yeah, very deep, yeah.
586
00:42:26,490 --> 00:42:30,570
Body mapping is really useful because
you can see the angle that the knife's
587
00:42:30,570 --> 00:42:31,570
gone in.
588
00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:35,570
There could be a whole range of
scenarios of what position he was in, if
589
00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:38,290
moving at the time or was he crouched
down when the knife came towards him.
590
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:43,450
It's obviously quite a significant
weapon to have caused those injuries.
591
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:48,430
Whether it's perhaps gone in at an angle
as well or kind of repeatedly gone in.
592
00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:51,310
Possibly an angle to then hit his kidney
up here.
593
00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:56,570
There's a lot of questions and a lot of
unknowns really of the kind of sequence
594
00:42:56,570 --> 00:42:57,570
of events.
595
00:42:58,060 --> 00:43:01,420
I think the impact is when you actually
say, oh, my God, it's gone right through
596
00:43:01,420 --> 00:43:02,800
and it's nicked his kidney.
597
00:43:03,060 --> 00:43:07,320
But the frustrating part is the fact
that we can't identify which weapon was
598
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,380
used and who actually used that weapon
to cause the injury to the victim.
599
00:43:11,780 --> 00:43:14,220
This could kind of jeopardise the case,
really.
600
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,120
On this particular CCTV footage, we've
got all three suspects.
601
00:43:24,780 --> 00:43:28,080
as they make their way away from the
crime scene to poke defence.
602
00:43:29,260 --> 00:43:34,800
After searching dozens more cameras, Zed
has located the suspects fleeing down a
603
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,920
side street and found more than just
images.
604
00:43:39,180 --> 00:43:45,660
It appears as if they are avoiding the
main roads and this particular footage
605
00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:47,680
has audio recording. Brilliant.
606
00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:54,110
You can hear they're having a
conversation amongst each other.
607
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:58,050
I'll just adjust the setting here.
608
00:44:03,970 --> 00:44:08,170
So the one suspect says to the other, is
that your blood? And he replies, no.
609
00:44:11,770 --> 00:44:14,750
Takes his jacket off and hands it to the
other suspect.
610
00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:19,070
They then go off onto a side road.
611
00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:23,690
This particular footage here that we've
obtained also has audio.
612
00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:29,050
He's quite far ahead of you, isn't he?
Look, he's powering ahead.
613
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:35,030
He's saying that he's dropped his shank.
614
00:44:35,290 --> 00:44:36,930
OK. So that he's dropped his weapon.
615
00:44:39,330 --> 00:44:43,390
One of the other suspects then said he's
done the same. The third suspect says
616
00:44:43,390 --> 00:44:44,710
that he's in possession of his weapon.
617
00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:50,230
That CCTV with the audio is really a key
find.
618
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:56,850
All three suspects make reference to
either being in possession of a knife or
619
00:44:56,850 --> 00:45:01,550
having been in possession of a knife,
and clearly this is incriminating
620
00:45:01,550 --> 00:45:02,550
evidence.
621
00:45:05,590 --> 00:45:09,050
And all three then run off, off camera.
622
00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:14,050
You can hear the sirens in the
background, can't you? I wonder if
623
00:45:14,050 --> 00:45:15,090
makes them start to run.
624
00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:21,700
The audio footage from the CCTV
demonstrates that they were all armed
625
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:22,700
weapons.
626
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:29,500
It suggests to me, really, that all
three people jointly acted together in
627
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:30,560
to inflict that injury.
628
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,280
One of them, it looks like he's holding
his head.
629
00:45:36,220 --> 00:45:40,800
Right. You see here that right hand is
touching the back of his head.
630
00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:45,990
I imagine he may have sustained an
injury during this altercation. And I'm
631
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:51,510
that suspect number one did sustain a
head injury as well as an injury to his
632
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:52,510
hand.
633
00:45:57,790 --> 00:46:01,670
All three suspects now face questioning
about the new footage.
634
00:46:03,310 --> 00:46:06,010
Starting with 15 -year -old suspect
three.
635
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:08,250
I want to show you some footage.
636
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,700
And this has got sound, so I want you to
pay attention to what you can hear as
637
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:14,700
well.
638
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,100
Come and drop my shank.
639
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:20,760
What does that mean?
640
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,100
His shank means knives, doesn't it?
641
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,860
So you're shouting back at them that you
dropped your knives?
642
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,540
Do you agree that that's you who said
that?
643
00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:37,100
Which one of the brothers said that?
644
00:46:39,810 --> 00:46:45,270
Suspect two, the older brother, who
previously denied being at the scene, is
645
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:46,750
next to be re -interviewed.
646
00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:54,250
I'm going to show you now some images of
these three males entering the rear
647
00:46:54,250 --> 00:46:55,570
at Sainsbury's.
648
00:46:57,410 --> 00:47:01,430
I believe that person there is yourself.
Can you tell me any different?
649
00:47:01,870 --> 00:47:02,870
No.
650
00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:06,630
What was your purpose of going on
Sainsbury's car park?
651
00:47:06,970 --> 00:47:07,970
No.
652
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,240
Did you have a knife when you entered
that car park?
653
00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:12,399
No comment.
654
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,400
You see, that person there has got an
object in his hand. Can you tell me what
655
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:16,999
that is?
656
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:17,899
No comment.
657
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:18,900
Is it a knife?
658
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:19,960
No comment.
659
00:47:23,420 --> 00:47:28,460
Suspect 1 is also questioned about the
evidence, which challenges his claim of
660
00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:29,460
self -defence.
661
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,360
This is my final offer to you. Will you
tell me in detail everything that
662
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,500
happened during that incident?
663
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,880
I reiterate, I am not guilty of attempt
murder.
664
00:47:39,140 --> 00:47:41,140
I feel I am a victim in this case also.
665
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:44,520
Had I not sent myself, I believe I would
have been killed.
666
00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:46,420
I would make you no further comment.
667
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:51,100
Right, 1742, and I'm switching the
machine off, thank you.
668
00:48:00,660 --> 00:48:04,940
We have three suspects who have been
present.
669
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:11,240
or have attacked our victim for me that
diminishes the self -defense
670
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:17,060
aspect that was put forward by suspect
one and made it less believable
671
00:48:17,060 --> 00:48:23,960
so i now really need the victim's
account to help build that
672
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,620
story that then gives the best
understanding about what happened that
673
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:41,180
Right, so do you want to talk me through
basically what happened for you?
674
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,260
There's a breakthrough for the team.
675
00:48:44,660 --> 00:48:49,020
The victim is finally well enough to
give a witness statement and reveal his
676
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:50,020
version of events.
677
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,080
We had agreed on meeting up, just me and
him.
678
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:00,180
We never agreed on no fighting, no
violence, but we just agreed on meeting
679
00:49:01,319 --> 00:49:05,560
He confirmed that suspect one arranged
to meet him on the night of the
680
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:07,140
He had sent me a snap.
681
00:49:07,340 --> 00:49:08,660
He said, oh, I'm on my way.
682
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,980
He was just saying he doesn't want
problems. He was convincing me, making
683
00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:13,460
seem like, oh, it was all going to be
fine.
684
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:15,920
And when did you fall out with him?
685
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,120
We played for the same football team. He
was my friend as well.
686
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,000
It's just we fell out after I had a
problem with one of his friends who used
687
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,020
also play for that team.
688
00:49:24,340 --> 00:49:29,580
So you had a problem with me over... It
was a play fight.
689
00:49:29,930 --> 00:49:31,830
That went too serious and he threatened
to stab me.
690
00:49:33,590 --> 00:49:37,350
I look up and then I see three masked
people running up at me.
691
00:49:41,950 --> 00:49:43,370
And then they pulled out their knives.
692
00:49:43,710 --> 00:49:44,710
Okay.
693
00:49:45,570 --> 00:49:49,870
His older brother had a kitchen knife
and his other accomplice had two knives.
694
00:49:49,870 --> 00:49:52,390
don't know what type of knives though,
but he took out two knives.
695
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:58,470
So then I took out my knife and held it
out towards them. Okay, so tell me what
696
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:59,470
made you...
697
00:49:59,610 --> 00:50:01,550
Take your knife out at that point.
698
00:50:01,830 --> 00:50:05,070
Because I knew they were trying to kill
me. That was their intention.
699
00:50:05,650 --> 00:50:08,530
What made you take that knife with you
when you went to see him?
700
00:50:09,370 --> 00:50:13,170
I felt like the need to have something
to protect myself just in case.
701
00:50:13,590 --> 00:50:15,010
Because I know the type of person he is.
702
00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:18,910
So what was your intention when you took
that knife with you?
703
00:50:19,870 --> 00:50:22,330
For self -defence. I just wanted to keep
it to myself.
704
00:50:22,770 --> 00:50:24,010
They were all running up at me.
705
00:50:24,310 --> 00:50:27,230
They were all just trying to swing at me
and I was just trying to swing to keep
706
00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:28,230
them away from me.
707
00:50:28,350 --> 00:50:29,750
OK, so hold it there for a second.
708
00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:33,050
And what was your intention when you
were just winding your knife? To get
709
00:50:33,050 --> 00:50:34,870
back, to get them to run away.
710
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:38,390
They would go back to pretend they were
going to go away, then they would come
711
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:39,690
back again and try and attack me.
712
00:50:39,930 --> 00:50:41,110
They just wanted to kill me.
713
00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:43,410
Who's coming at you?
714
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:44,810
They all took swings at me.
715
00:50:45,110 --> 00:50:48,210
It was like they were taking turns. They
were playing with me.
716
00:50:48,430 --> 00:50:51,070
They knew they could kill me, but they
were just playing with me.
717
00:50:53,350 --> 00:50:56,450
And that was when he just came and he
stabbed me through.
718
00:50:57,610 --> 00:51:02,350
The victim named Suspect 1 as the person
who stabbed him in the chest.
719
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:05,210
I didn't feel pain.
720
00:51:05,590 --> 00:51:07,630
I just felt like there was something
inside me.
721
00:51:08,090 --> 00:51:11,470
And then when he was trying to take it
out, it was just like it jammed in my
722
00:51:11,470 --> 00:51:12,470
kidney.
723
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:17,730
And that was when I swung as well,
because the adrenaline kicked in. I
724
00:51:17,730 --> 00:51:20,450
remember. I'm pretty sure I cut him
somewhere here on his arm.
725
00:51:21,410 --> 00:51:25,890
When you struck him with your knife, how
many times did you do it?
726
00:51:26,940 --> 00:51:27,940
I can't remember.
727
00:51:28,020 --> 00:51:29,420
Pretty sure it was once or twice.
728
00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:33,860
I just started running down the road. I
was running for my life because
729
00:51:33,860 --> 00:51:34,860
adrenaline had helped me.
730
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,160
I was just running.
731
00:51:39,380 --> 00:51:43,260
It's really pleasing that the victim's
given us an account and that he is
732
00:51:43,260 --> 00:51:44,940
willing to support our investigation.
733
00:51:45,220 --> 00:51:48,360
But it's really important that we don't
just take it at face value.
734
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,480
You know, we need to make sure that what
we're being told is true.
735
00:52:01,610 --> 00:52:02,610
That's interesting.
736
00:52:03,150 --> 00:52:06,490
And there are some lyrics on here.
737
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:11,550
One of them has actually got the street
name of our victim in it as well.
738
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:18,010
Sherry has been digging deeper into
Suspect 2's new phone, which he used
739
00:52:18,010 --> 00:52:22,890
the offence, and hidden amongst the many
notes, discovered a song lyric.
740
00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:26,530
Doctor NHS, are you taking the piss?
741
00:52:26,990 --> 00:52:30,170
And then the street name of our victim.
Should have got packed that day.
742
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:31,960
But he got revived.
743
00:52:32,220 --> 00:52:35,660
Three shanks up. When we booked that
prick, we done it all fliz.
744
00:52:36,260 --> 00:52:39,300
But we don't give a shit. 36 hours,
banged up in cells.
745
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:40,580
I ain't no rat.
746
00:52:40,660 --> 00:52:41,760
Don't talk to the pigs.
747
00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:44,240
Fuck. Street name of our victim.
748
00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:46,120
Should have been in Muscliffe.
749
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:48,940
They're mentioning our victim.
750
00:52:49,540 --> 00:52:53,100
They're mentioning the fact that he
should have got packed that day, which
751
00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:56,700
suggest means body bagged, killed, but
he got revived.
752
00:52:57,580 --> 00:52:59,820
Three shanks up. Three knives up.
753
00:53:01,290 --> 00:53:03,510
But I ain't no rat, don't talk to the
pigs.
754
00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:08,930
Great. That first verse definitely
sounds like what happened on the night.
755
00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:13,990
mentioning our victim and he's clearly
very upset that the NHS managed to save
756
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:14,990
his life.
757
00:53:16,330 --> 00:53:20,710
I find it mind -boggling that you would
brag about nearly killing somebody.
758
00:53:21,290 --> 00:53:23,790
I just, I can't wrap my brain around
that.
759
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:27,330
It's like writing a confession down in
the form of rap.
760
00:53:27,730 --> 00:53:29,210
It's so incriminating.
761
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:41,120
Aid meets with Joe to assess whether
there's strong enough evidence to charge
762
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,180
all three teenagers with attempted
murder.
763
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,240
Attempt murder is probably one of the
hardest penalties because you've got to
764
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:49,240
show that intent.
765
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:51,860
We need to show that there was an
intention to kill.
766
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,160
The victim is saying that he was
attacked by all three people.
767
00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:00,980
We know from phones that there was
potentially a...
768
00:54:01,550 --> 00:54:06,950
a meet -up arranged and therefore that
they've gone there in order to like kind
769
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:11,830
of sort out some issue like kind of
between them I think that shows actually
770
00:54:11,830 --> 00:54:15,910
that they were all aware of what was
going on that night it's good they got
771
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:19,050
of three against one haven't you yeah
yeah which shows that they were the
772
00:54:19,050 --> 00:54:24,530
aggressors yeah we know that suspect one
has got some injuries but the severity
773
00:54:24,530 --> 00:54:28,300
of like kind of the victim's injuries
the fact that he was on his own And the
774
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:33,280
fact that obviously he's seen people
running towards him, that evidence is an
775
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,000
element of planning, I think diminishes
self -defence.
776
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:42,040
Given that knife crime is such an issue,
I think it's only sensible really that
777
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,660
we discuss that with CPS.
778
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:49,480
We've got mobile phone evidence, we've
got CCTV evidence.
779
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:56,260
By putting it all together, that then
helps us to show what had happened.
780
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,900
and able to demonstrate to the court
these three individuals have attacked
781
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:04,700
victim and caused that very significant
injury to him.
782
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:12,740
Can you come and stand at the desk,
please? Thank you.
783
00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:17,400
While going to be charged, they came
with some very serious offences.
784
00:55:18,420 --> 00:55:23,760
The Crown Prosecution Service decides
that all three suspects should face the
785
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:24,760
same charges.
786
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:27,770
You're going to be charged with the
following offences.
787
00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:29,850
First offence, attempted murder.
788
00:55:30,850 --> 00:55:35,430
Second charge, had with you in a public
place an article which had a blade or
789
00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:37,410
was sharply pointed, namely a kitchen
knife.
790
00:55:37,770 --> 00:55:42,530
I do know that you're 15 years of age
and they are very serious and grave
791
00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:44,350
offences for which you've been charged.
792
00:55:46,350 --> 00:55:51,850
It is hard sometimes to step back and
think, wow, these are only like 15, 16,
793
00:55:51,850 --> 00:55:52,850
-year -old kids.
794
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,600
When you really boil it down, we're not
talking about grown adults here, we're
795
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,420
talking about kids that have got their
whole lives in front of them.
796
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,440
What the hell are you doing? If you
understand those charges, if you can
797
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,000
right here, that's not to say you're
admitting to anything, it's just to say
798
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,000
that you've understood the charges.
799
00:56:45,230 --> 00:56:50,490
We never take the pleas to lesser
offences lightly, but it's incredibly
800
00:56:50,490 --> 00:56:53,650
difficult in order to prove an attempted
murder. And actually, I believe this
801
00:56:53,650 --> 00:56:55,570
was the right thing to do in these
circumstances.
802
00:56:55,950 --> 00:57:01,270
We have achieved some justice for the
victim and his family, and hopefully
803
00:57:01,270 --> 00:57:05,130
will set a clear message to young people
to the dangers of knife crime and the
804
00:57:05,130 --> 00:57:06,130
dangers of carrying knives.
805
00:57:31,180 --> 00:57:35,520
Unfortunately, a case like this, you
know, it affects so many people.
806
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,440
The victim has got now life -changing
injuries for the rest of his life.
807
00:57:41,340 --> 00:57:46,140
I can only imagine what the victim's
family, but also the suspect's family,
808
00:57:46,140 --> 00:57:47,140
going through.
809
00:57:47,900 --> 00:57:50,940
It's so sad that they've got their whole
life ahead of them.
810
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,200
You know, I'm sure they all had
aspirations of what they wanted to do in
811
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,200
future.
812
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,160
You know, that's been taken away from
them, really, from...
813
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,920
a moment of bad choices that they've all
made.
814
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,440
Every contact leaves a trace that
forensic experts can follow.
815
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,240
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816
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817
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