All language subtitles for Un.delitto.poco.comune.1988.CF.1080p.BluRay.x265.hevc.10bit.AAC.2.0.dual.commentary-HeVK.eng

Well, hello and welcome to the audio
commentary for Phantom of Death, also

as Off Balance, and I'm sure a whole
variety of other titles as these things

tend to be.

I'm known by the title of Troy Howarth,
and I'm very happy to be joined here

today by... Eugenio Corrani, here we go,
to talk

about Un Delitto Poco Comune, Off
Balance, a .k .a. Phantom of Death.

Yeah, it's a film of Ruggiero Deodato,
of course, who, anybody listening to

doesn't really require an introduction.
We'll get into him, of course, some of

the career highlights and so forth and
talk about this film's place in its

career.

Right off the bat, we're seeing some
very familiar faces. Hal Yamanuchi here,

who is a familiar face in other Italian
genre films.

of the period, including Lucho Fulci's
Warriors of the Year, 2072.

He later shows up in Roberta Lenzi's
film, House of Lost Souls, as well.

And this doctor here, if she looks
familiar, is Carola Stagnaro, who also

appears in a couple of Dario Argento
films. She plays Detective Altieri in

Tenebrae. She's the one that's paired up
with Giuliano Gemma in that film.

They have some great witty banter back
and forth in that movie. It talks about,

you know, it's a good thing he has a
female partner, otherwise he'd have

to bitch about.

But he also played the mother of the
little girl who lives next door to the

heroine in opera.

Later on, appeared also for Deodato in
Dial Help. And, of course, our star,

Michael York, who, as we will discuss,
unfortunately, rather tragically in real

life, ended up afflicted with a
condition that's not precisely the same

but certainly has affected his looks and
his life in a way that's quite tragic

and very unfortunate the way it connects
into this film.

Yes, I mean, this is an interesting film
for a number of reasons.

I mean, it's quintessentially a 1980s
giallo under a lot of points

of views.

But, you know, with the perception that
Del Dato has had over the years

of his own film, he's had a kind of
rocky relationship with it.

has always lamented a certain slowness
and not having

had the liberty he was used to when
choosing his actors.

I mean, he's often stated that he would
not have gone for Edwidge Spanek as a

female lead, preferring somebody
younger.

Over the years, he's even given a few
names of who he would have rather have.

All of them were...

kind of American names, young and
upcoming actresses and models.

He was also complained about the
interfering

of Gianfranco Cleri, who not only wrote
the script,

in fact, they wrote it in 1982 for what
was supposed to be a

Lutofuci film.

then the whole concept was kind of put
aside and then it kind of re -emerged

when Luciano Martino was interested who
is mistakenly often credited

as the producer but actually Dania Film
owned by Luciano Martino is only the

distributor of Off Balance which at the
time

meant having still a lot of power
because distributors really had a say in

direction the film was supposed to take
and kind of the amount of violence or

sex or kind of the various elements. And
of course, casting.

It's, I think, safe.

to say that most likely Edwidge Fennec
was an imposition from the distributor,

Luciano Martino, of course, a long -time
partner of Edwidge Fennec, and in fact,

really, the man who jump -started her
Italian career and made her an

international star.

I was saying, Vincenzo Manino and
Gianfranco Clerici, they are the actual

producers, besides being the writers of
the film.

Of course, as most people know, Claire
Richie and Del Dato go back way, way

back. Claire Richie penned Cannibal
Holocaust, House Under the Park, but

actually started collaborating as far
back as the early 70s. So there's

definitely an established relationship
by the time Off Balance kind of brings

them back together.

But...

According to Deodato, Clerici really
kind of imposed a lot of things, kind

he didn't have the liberty of cutting
down dialogue or kind of reshaping the

story. So, over the years, he's lamented
about these things, especially in the

late 90s when he was giving this kind of
film, at least in Italy, kind of re

-emerged.

He complained about it. Then...

as most directors do, but Valencia with
his cannibal movies is a good example.

Over the years, he's kind of warmed up
to the film and now seems to kind of

a benevolent eye towards it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's certainly not a film
to be ashamed of by any stretch of the

imagination. I think it's actually a
fairly top -tier Deodato film, not...

obviously on the level of Cannibal
Holocaust, which is the film that

knows that film, whether they've seen it
or not.

It's a film that will be in his
obituary, we'll put it that way. The

director is what he's known for more
than anything else. But this is a very,

very good example of, it's a jello up to
a point, although it's kind of an

unorthodox one.

It has a mystery angle early on, but it
kind of gets abandoned.

as the story goes along and is
developed.

And, of course, as you were saying, you
know, there were different things that

were sort of imposed and different
things that he wasn't very happy with.

see Edwidge VanEck here, who, by the
way, on the English dub, it's actually

voice, which is very unusual.

It's not her voice on any of those
famous Sergio Martino jallies that she

back in the 70s, for example, but she
speaks English on the soundtrack for

film, as do, obviously, Michael York and
Donald Pleasence, whom we've also met

already showing up as the inspector.

so that's one kind of interesting point
in its favor as far as he's concerned. I

know at least one of the actresses that
they ought to mention being interested

in casting in a part was Kelly LeBrock,
which, you know...

Made sense. I mean, she was a name at
the time in the 80s. It would have been

good for international distribution.

Obviously, with the Martino factor in
place, it makes sense that Fennec would

have been slightly imposed on the film.

But she's not bad in the film, by any
stretch of the imagination. I don't

she comes across as being miscast.

You know, I mean, it could be argued
that Michael York is too old for his

because he's supposed to be, you know, a
man of about 30, whereas he's pushing

50. But he's a very youthful -looking
man in his late 40s, so he pulls it off.

It's one of those things where, you
know, if you are aware of how old he is,

might think, well, I don't know if I
really buy the idea this man's supposed

be in his early 30s. But, yeah, he pulls
it off well enough. And the same thing

with Edwidge Fenex. She doesn't seem out
of place at all.

I think she actually fits in quite well
to this. movie. But as to the origins of

the story, yes, as you mentioned quite
accurately, originally it's tied into

of my absolute favorite Lucio Fulci
films, The New York Ripper, which

was originally supposed to direct.

There was some trade announcements and
so forth that Deodato was going to make

this film, which at the time dealt with
the idea of progeria being a trigger for

a series of killings.

When Lucia Fulci ended up taking over
the project, he and Dardana Sicchetti

an overhaul in the script and completely
jettisoned that idea, brought in the

idea of a killer who's basically trying
to avenge his dying daughter. She's

dying of some terrible form of cancer.

So he has a great resentment against
young, healthy, beautiful women and is

taking it out on them by slashing them
up.

So they were very unhappy. Manino and
Clerici were very unhappy with all the

changes that were made and arranged,
essentially, to buy the project. buy the

script back so that they can make the
film that they originally had in mind.

it really did kind of work out as the
best of both worlds. We get Lucio

The New York Ripper, which is a
controversial film, much maligned by

people. I'd argue misunderstood by many
people as well. I don't think the film

is nearly as vile as some people make it
out to be, although it is a tricky

film, and it is a movie that plays a
very sophisticated game with its

but I think it's quite brilliant.

But we also get Raul Delgado's film,
which is dealing with this idea of

as well. So kind of a win -win in the
long run. Yes, I mean, I would agree

you. I don't think Edwidge Fennec is at
all miscast or misplaced in this film.

It also kind of has an important role in
her filmography because it really is

her return to, although an anomalous one
still, a film that incorporates

elements of the genre.

I think her previous effort within Jalli
was

1975's Nude for the Killer.

Strip Nude for your Killer.

I was translating from the Italian
title, Nude per l 'assassino.

And really, between these two films,
Edwidge Fenech was

really became, I mean, she had already
done at least four, important

films within the sex comedy arena,
mainly Sergio

Martino's first effort, Giovannona
Coscia Lunga, with her and Pippo Franco,

really after between from the mid 70s
right up till

1983 -84 she really digs in in the sex
comedy and sex passes.

and does loads and she's directed mostly
produced by dania um that kind of is a

company that's specialized in in this um
particular subgenre and she really is

directed by kind of the cream of the
crop shall you say of um uh of the

specialized in comedic sexy uh michele
massimo tarantini nando cicero of course

luciano's brother

director sergio martino and she had
become incredibly popular in italy uh i

she was huge thanks to these comedies
which over the over especially from

starting from 1978 they start getting a
lot the ones she acted in started

getting a lot less want here and pretty
much becoming just comedies with a

little bit of maybe

the odd breast or buttock but for the
most part they really turn into just

comedies although of course most of the
stories revolve around her beauty and

ugly small little men wanting to somehow
have her

sexually but she starts really stripping
less and less

so this is her return to Jalloh and

I think she does a good job.

Donald Pleasence has, I would say, an
important

role, narratively speaking.

And Ruggero Del Dato, I believe, yes, is
the only film in which Del Dato

directs Pleasence, has always stated
that he is the... best actors ever

directed, the one he was the happiest
with, and even as a

man, the one he seemed to connect more
with.

It would be interesting, Troy, to kind
of open up a little sub -chapter on

Donald Pleasance in Italian, 80s Italian
cinema, because there's a lot to say

there. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, people
who know Donald Pleasance for his later

period as kind of a horror film icon,
thanks to his role as Dr.

Loomis in the Halloween films, may not
be aware of what a truly distinguished

career he had as an actor. He was a Tony
Award winning actor in the theater.

He had worked, obviously done. And of
course, there's Dead Otto, his little

directorial cameo getting on the moped
there. Had to point that out real quick.

He, you know, had been in plays by
Harold Pint. And, you know, The Man in

Glass Booth had been an enormous
success, although when they made the

adapted from the Robert Shaw play, the
same Robert Shaw who played Quentin

incidentally. they hired Maximilian
Sell, who is fantastic in the film, but

would have been really something to have
seen Donald Pleasance in that part

because he did want a Tony playing that
role on stage.

So he'd had a very distinguished career.
He'd worked with major directors like

John Sturgis, Roman Polanski, probably
gave the performance of his career on

film for Polanski in a film called Cul
-de -Sac, and an extraordinary, very

of Beckett -esque.

black comedy, where he's this
milquetoast kind of a character who has

himself in this little island castle.

And he finds himself under attack by a
boorish American gangster played by

Lionel Stander, who has his own Italian
career.

Incidentally, of course, as we know,
showed up in a number of interesting

Italian films. But Pleasence, by late
70s, is becoming more and more typecast

a horror film actor.

And not surprisingly, he ends up in
Italy doing a lot of films there. Not

horror films, but... You know, films in
a variety of different genres. He's in

the official sequel to Django, for
example, which is a very unusual film,

it's the only real true official sequel
to the original Sergio Corbucci film

with Franco Nero. Although, as we've
talked about in other contexts, by the

this movie's done, the Western phase has
ended.

Stallone and Rambo has become the big
kind of success. So they kind of

reconfigure that character somewhat to
be, it's more of a Rambo kind of ripoff

than it is a real sequel to Django,
ultimately.

But Pleasance is in that. Of course,
around this time, too, he works with

Argento on Phenomena. He's very
effective in a role that originally was

apparently intended for either Orson
Welles or Peter Ustinov, both of whom

up bailing for one reason or another.

So Pleasance comes in and does it.

Noteworthy, really, in that sense, is
being kind of the only horror.

quote -unquote horror film actor that
Dario Ageno ever really worked with in a

film. He didn't really tend to gravitate
towards getting genre actors. He tended

to get actors who were outside of that
kind of genre to be in his films. So

Donald Pleasance definitely had his
horror credentials in place.

And speaking of horror credentials, his
little interrogation here reminds me of

one of my favorite Donald Pleasant's
performance, which is his role as

Calhoun in Gary Sherman's Deathline or
Raw Meat from 1972, where he's

brilliant.

Some of the sort of smart -ass trickery
that he's doing here, the way he's

interacting with the suspect and so
forth, reminds me of his heavily

performance in that film.

But anyway, he's doing other things
around this time, too. He, a couple

earlier, did another interesting kind of
significant late -period jello of the

period movie called Nothing Underneath.

which was enormously successful, one of
the very few enormously successful non

-Argento Jali of the period, in which he
plays a similar role, the aging police

inspector, which in and of itself could
be seen as kind of a variation on his

role as Dr. Loomis in the Halloween
franchise. So he's this kind of

Captain Ahab -esque or Professor Van
Helsing -esque.

figure who's out there trying to uh
trying to stop some unstoppable evil

so uh yeah i mean he's his career is all
over the map and of course almost

virtually ends his career with an
italian film unfortunately not nearly as

distinguished a film called fatal frames
by alfesta in which he plays a a meaty

supporting role but he's one of several
actors in that film that basically was

dead by the time the movie came out
sorry to say, died after undergoing open

-heart surgery in France.

So, you know, really a terrific actor I
always enjoy seeing, and yeah,

definitely somebody with a very
interesting Italian career. Yeah, I

personally absolutely adore Don
Pleasence. I mean, The Great Escape

would not be the same without Don
Pleasence, and of course, you can find

so many different films. I mean, one of
the first, films that come to mind is

soldier blue by ralph nelson and he
gives a terrific performance i mean it's

of those careers that seems to touch
pretty much every possible european

every sort of director and and sub
genres and big roles and smaller roles

a very difficult career in many ways to
dissect or summarize uh which makes him

even more fascinating and uh qualified
for the cult status he has.

In Italy, yes, I mean, he did a number
of films, also,

strangely enough, comedies as well.

The director of Nothing Underneath,
Sotto il Vistito Niente, Carlo Vanzina,

director of mostly, actually, comedies,
which only...

really kind of directed Nothing
Underneath, and another couple of films

kind of move away from comedy, one of
which is actually the sequel to

Nothing Underneath, not Sotto
Vispiriniente Due by Dario, Nothing

or Too Young to Die by... Too Beautiful
to Die by Dario Piana, but...

the way more recent film starring
Richard E. Grant in the early

2000s. And Cavalbantina also directed
Donald Pleasance in a

kind of sort of like Wall Street parody
slash

comedy called Billions with Billy Zane
in the early, yes,

I believe 1990.

And this is one of the elements.

Most of the Italian directors that
worked with Donald Pleasence really

him all the time. They always tried to
cast him over and over again.

And over the years, interviewing many of
these directors from the 80s, Donald

Pleasence pops up so many times as being
the...

Number one candidate. Most recently,
director Ryan Alessandro Capone, who

directed in 1988 Witch Story, Strega,
with stars Ian Bannon,

told me that his initial choice was
Donald Pleasence. And Donald Pleasence

accepted. He was going to do the film.

But then the film, I think, slid two
months and Donald Pleasence was not

available anymore.

So Donald Pleasant seems to be very much
in demand.

And he did another anomalous film called
The Metropolitan Animals, Animali

Metropolitani, directed by, in fact, one
of Lucio

Fulci's kind of cinematic fathers,
Steno, Stefano Vanzina,

father of...

Carlo Mancina, that directed Nothing
Underneath.

And, of course, one of the masters of
the Commedia l 'Italiana, Donald

Pleasence, appears in one of Steno's
lesser films. In fact, it's a pretty

example of Steno's work in the 80s,
which generally wasn't very good, but

a particularly...

Particularly bad film, let's be honest.

But the Donald Bledsoe shines pretty
much wherever you put him, even in the

infamous Fatal Frames.

Yeah, he's one of the few...

in that film that retains his kind of
dignity.

He comes away with his dignity intact,
let's say.

Speaking of people who wanted them, I
mean, Lucio Volci, after Peter Cushing

bowed out of doing The Black Cat, Peter
Cushing was going to do it, and then

Donald Pleasance was set to do it. But I
think that was around the same time,

too, that John Carpenter had wanted him
for The Thing, and he was busy on a

film, Race of the Yankee Zephyr, which
was directed by David Hemmings, another

actor with significant Italian
connections.

went over budget and over schedule and
so forth, and so Pleasance was obliged

pass on that. Although I have to say, I
think in that case, the right man got

the job.

We ended up with Patrick McGee giving
really his last great starring role

performance. I mean, there was an actor
who definitely could, you know, if you

couldn't get Donald Pleasance through
Peter Cushing, Patrick McGee was

no great shame to end up with. So, yeah,
again, Pleasance's career is certainly,

as you say, incredibly exciting.
eclectic, encompasses all kinds of

course, famous as the original face of
Blofeld in You Only Live Twice, the

time we see Blofeld as anything other
than a pair of hands stroking a cat. In

the earlier films, it was the hands of
Anthony Dawson, the actor. Anthony

Dawson, not Antonio Margheriti, our good
friend director, known as Anthony M.

Dawson, so as not to get confused with
the English actor of the same name.

You know, and various other career...
Highlights abound.

He worked with Luigi Cozzi on Paganini
Horror in terms of Italian credits as

well. And, yeah, I mean, just always
dependable. Even as those Halloween

got more and more preposterous and more
and more shoddy, there he was, you know,

just offering a great comforting
presence in the midst of all the mayhem.

somebody who's terribly missed. And it's
really one of the elements that makes

it very clear, the recent Halloween
films, that they just can't quite

the magic.

absence of Donald Pleasance. Yeah, I
absolutely agree.

Speaking of horror films that Donald
Pleasance made in Italy in the 80s, how

it's impossible not to mention Nosferatu
in Venice, which

actually connects various names we
mentioned.

I mean, Luigi Cozzi did the

did the optical effects for that film.

And we find even Christopher Blummer
there, another actor that had been

by Kotze in Star Crash.

So, yeah, no, I mean, it's...

It's quite a remarkable career.

Michael York doesn't even come close to
the deep -rooted connections with Italy

Pleasance had, but he did work
subsequently again in Italy after

the Davos film with Alberto Negrin.
Alberto Negrin

is probably not the flashiest Italian...

when it comes to directors, but some
people might remember him for having

directed Enigma Rosso with Fabio Tetti,

which was, of course, supposed to be
directed by

Massimo Dallamano, as you obviously know
very well, Troy.

Yeah. Yeah, no, he ended up taking over
that film, obviously, after Dallamano

had passed away. Dallamano had been
involved in writing the film and helping

develop it with Franco Farini.

But, you know, tragically, he had cancer
and ended up passing away before that

could happen.

Kind of a continuation of the themes
found in Dallamano's earlier films. What

have you done to Solange and what have
they done to your daughters?

So kind of an unofficial trilogy of
schoolgirls in peril films.

But as you say, Michael York definitely
doesn't have that deep of a connection

with the Italian film scene, certainly
not the genre film scene, although he is

often listed as having been very
seriously considered and nearly having

the lead for Dario Argento in Four Flies
and Grey Velvet.

There's some disagreement over that here
and there, depending on whether that

was actually...

accurate or had it been misreported or
whatever.

But I believe Argento has indicated in
at least one interview that, yeah,

Michael York was certainly on the short
list of people that were, you know,

considered along with the likes of John
Lennon and Ringo Starr and various other

people before they ended up with Michael
Brandon, of all people. But there you

go. That's just how these things work
out.

You know, he's obviously a tremendously

sympathetic actor, and I think that's
one of the things that works greatly in

his favor for this film, because he's
playing a character that could be

incredibly off -putting and incredibly
unsympathetic, but he makes him tragic,

he makes him human, and he makes us kind
of care about him, which is unusual in

a Giallo -style film.

To have a killer that we actually have
that degree of empathy with. So that

gives the film a slightly more
melancholy and a slightly more tragic

Because usually when the killer is
unmasked in the last reel, they just

to be some shrieking madman or madwoman
or whatever. And they're, you know,

they're pretty much just there to be
dispatched at the end of the film.

and kind of destroyed by circumstances
outside of his control, obviously this

terrible illness.

This is Katerina Barato, by the way,
playing his mother here.

You may remember her for appearing as
the mysterious woman in Eight and a Half

by Fellini, Susan Salo for Pasolini, but
she also shows up in Baba's Diabolic as

the woman whose emeralds are stolen from
her during one of the film's big action

sequences. So, very familiar face.

Lots, as I said, lots of familiar faces.
in this film, and it's a movie that

evidently had some money behind it. I
mean, the casting that we have, the

locations in Venice, the overall
production value. I mean, there must

a fair amount of money put into this
particular film.

It certainly doesn't appear to have been
a profit. No, absolutely not.

By the way, the film I was about to
mention, directed by Bertone

Green.

is The Secret of the Tsar, El Segreto
del Tsar, made for television, because

Negrín then later on, pretty much for
most of his directing career after

Rings of Death, pretty much only works
for the small screen.

No, it wasn't absolutely not a cheap
film by any means.

It's a film that I believe Clary Shee
and Manino really believed in. I think

they believed in the potential it had as
a film that

could kind of unite, could be a kind of
an auteur genre.

I don't know if this was really Del
Dato's territory. I think he does a good

job. I don't know if this was the right
kind of film for Del Dato in this

specific moment in time.

But it's definitely a certain...

attention to detail when it comes to the
story and the dialogue, at least in the

Italian version.

So, I mean, you can definitely feel
this. This is a heartfelt film when it

to Claudio Giammanino. This is not a
film done cynically by any means.

And I think Luciano, I think Luciano
Giammanino believed, must have believed

quite a bit in the film because Edwidge
Fenwick, by the time Of Balance comes

along,

She was trying away from her work as an
actress. She was trying to do as few

films as she could. And in fact, pretty
much will leave her acting career

shortly after this film.

She will reappear here and there, mostly
for films she...

participated in as a producer, because
then that's really what she will do for

most of the 90s. And right until
recently, she's going to be

appearing in Pupi Abadi's next film,
which is being shot in

Bologna.

Now as we speak in fact and right into
these weeks. I think there are two weeks

into filming But yeah, so I think if if
she decided to participate in balance I

think she she herself and Luciano
Martino must have believed in the strong

potential of the project

So, yes, and even we find an illustrious
composer, you know, Donaggio, doing the

music. And, of course, Donaggio and...

No doubt I'd already worked together.

The Barbarians, for example, first one
that comes to mind.

But, yeah, Pino Donaggio was mostly
associated with Brian De Palma around

time. I mean, their collaboration was
very strong. They already had so many

films. Carrie, Dressed to Kill, Blowout,
Under the Belt. I mean, home movies.

So, there was...

He was a big international name, of
course. Pino Donato just started out as

singer and songwriter and really
actually turned

down to be a composer out of pure
chance. He stated

this many times. He was not looking to
get into films, although some of his

songs... had appeared in films, he was
not openly looking to become a composer

and, through circumstances, happened to
cross the paths with Nicholas Roig. And,

you know, he ended up composing the
wonderful music for that absolute

masterpiece called Don't Look Now.

And the rest, really, is history.

He's never stopped since.

Very perfect.

and possibly even more so in any way
than Morricone, really kind of becomes

nearly an American. That's the way he's
perceived, at least within the Italian

industry, really as an American
composer.

He works pretty much throughout the 80s
as many American films,

actually a lot of German films, a lot of
also German television there in the mix

as well. But a lot of American films, I
mean...

The Fan by Ed Bianchi and Deja Vu by
Anthony B. Richmond and Going

Bananas by Boris Davidson and, of
course, De Palma. He does a bunch in the

80s, a bunch of horror films, among
which Haunts by Herb Freed and David

Schmuller. You know, he has a lot going
there.

Works a lot in Italy, but really will
start working more often for Italian

productions, more in the mid -90s.
Throughout the 80s, he is perceived very

as an Italian working in the States, or
working for the States mainly.

Yeah, from Nicholas Rogue to...

crawl space, you know, in one fell
swoop. He's done it all.

Of course, also Dario Argento in the 90s
starts using him on things like Two

Evil Eyes, Trauma, and came back later
on for Do You Like Hitchcock?

Joe Dante used him on The Howling, of
course, and Piranha.

So he's done a little bit of everything.
He was just doing all kinds of little

low -budget films around this time too,
tourist traps and sort of alternating

big assignments with little assignments.
So he had that kind of Morricone work

ethic, which just seemed to be if the
money is there, I'm there. I don't care

it's a big film or a small film. And he
always gave it a big sound no matter

what. He's a composer who has a very
busy style, so it's not a style that

for every film that he composes for.

There is a sense sometimes of the music
working. against the imagery on some of

the films that he works with, not here,
but certain films that he's done where

the music is really frenzied and it
doesn't really quite fit too well, which

why he works extraordinarily well for
directors like Brian De Palma in

particular, because De Palma's style
really suits him like a glove.

As you mentioned prior to this, he had
worked on...

Actually, Del Dotto's previous film, the
one he did right before, that's almost

precisely a year before, in the summer
of 1986, he saw The Barbarians, which is

a canon production.

Then he does this film in August and
September of 87, and DiNagio's back. And

later on, he did a TV project called
Ocean, which I've never seen, but which

a very impressive cast list, includes
Mario Adorf, Martin Balsam, and Lou

Castel. So, yeah, very, very...

Yes, Irene Pappas.

The recently departed Irene Pappas, as a
matter of fact.

So an extremely impressive cast list.
I've never seen it, but I would imagine

that it's certainly worth a look based
on that cast alone.

It's pretty good.

I mean, it's not...

It pretty much disappeared.

It's off the radar.

But if one manages to kind of find a
copy of the TV movie,

TV miniseries to be precise, it's well
worth a watch.

It's very unlike what Del Dato has done
for cinema.

but it's more of a kind of an epic
family drama, which has

some beautiful scenery, and as you say,
it has an impressive cast.

Personally, Dildato has always stated he
considers it his best film as a

director.

Although, I mean, to be fair, I've
interviewed Grugio many, many, many,

times over the years,

Yeah, he tends to change opinions about
pretty much everything all the time. So

I don't know how reliable. I mean, you
know, us now, he'd

maybe say, well, I love this film.

Well, we all know that's true, of
course.

Yes.

No, yeah, it's true. I mean, but to be
fair, I think that's probably true of

most directors. I mean, Argento for
years would say phenomena.

Then once or twice he said opera, and
once or twice he said the Stendhal

syndrome. It just depends on, you know,
what mood they're in and how defensive

they are sometimes, depending on how a
film went over. I mean, we know that

Lucio Fulci, for example, was very
protective towards films that didn't do

like The Psychic, Seven Notes in Black.

It was a big flop in a movie he always
defended and always called maybe his

film, depending on certain times he said
that.

So, yeah, I think that's something that
happens on occasion. Now, we've talked a

little bit about Gianfranco Clerici and
Vincenzo Menino, but just to give some

sense of the kinds of career that these
writers had.

either alone or in tandem as a sort of
writing team.

Their body of work is impressive. As I
said, New York Ripper.

originated as a script that was heavily
revised by Fulci and Sardinus and Ketzi.

But Kaleri Sheets also involved in the
writing of Don't Torture a Duckling, for

example. We have the collaboration with
Del Dotto on films like Cannibal

Holocaust, Jungle Holocaust, House on
the Edge of the Park. Worked with

Lenzi several times, notably Violent
Naples, which is possibly Lenzi's finest

film.

Little seen, at least in the U .S.,
Massimo Dallamano's sexy comedy with

Faneck, tying it back to the cast of
this film, called Innocence and Desire.

a bad film if it ever got revived.

It might be a little problematic, let's
say, but it's worth seeing.

Alberto De Martino on films like The
Antichrist and Strange Shadows in an

Room or Blazing Magnums.

And Castellari on High Crime. So really
these two writers, if we

liken them to an octopus, their
tentacles have touched just about all

directors who worked in the Italian
popular cinema of this period. So their

is involved in quite a few significant
films.

Yes.

I can speak for Vincenzo Mannino
particularly, because I've written about

Mannino quite a few times, and he's
seemed to come and pop up a lot in my

especially recently.

But Vincenzo Mannino starts his career
really thanks to direct Alberto De

Martino.

In fact, De Martino and Mannino went to
school together.

and Manino initially took a completely
different direction, whereas Alberto de

Martino really kind of throws himself in
the trenches of late

1950s cinema, Italian cinema, which was
booming.

Vincenzo Manino becomes a journalist.

And he actually worked as a journalist
for a certain amount of time.

And as other journalists, Antonio
Truisio, for example, is somebody who

mind, who wrote an incredible amount of
films. He's also one of the writers of

Beyond the Door by Ovidio Giassonitis
and the OP Roberto del Torre Piazzoli.

Like Truisio, Mannino...

kind of starts gravitating towards film
and really gets introduced to the

business thanks to Alberto de Martino,
who by that time was working and was a

prominent figure within the industry.

Mannino, when I interviewed Umberto
Lenzi about Mannino, he described

Mannino as somebody who was very
meticulous. He would research.

He would research the films, especially
the crime films.

I'm thinking of such things as The Cynic
Around the Fist or Syndicate Statist.

He would research the kind of the, as
the French would say, the milieu, the

of the substrate,

social substrate in which these
criminals would work in.

He would talk to police.

And his scripts, he said, would often
not have quite the right rhythm. They

would not think of the spectacle that
the film should incorporate.

But they were always very precise in
describing a certain criminal

Whereas, as Lenzi mentioned, Sacchetti
had somebody who would hand in a

script.

stained with tomato sauce.

Yes. No love lost there.

But that's not surprising if we know
anything about both of those

Two bulls in a china shop.

Yeah, Violent Naples, he said, was
essentially just a collection of

that Menino had managed to collect from
the Neapolitan mob scene and so forth.

And the film bears that out. I think
kind of a masterpiece of its kind. It's

such a great...

story as such but it's strung together
with such precision and such energy that

it works It is very episodic. You know,
it's not something that tells a great

sort of rhythmic tale from beginning to
end. It's just, you know, this happens,

this happens, this happens, all kind of
tenuously connected.

But it's done with such energy.

Who cares? I mean, it just works
beautifully. So that's definitely the

I can definitely believe that with
regards to a project like Violent

which is really one of the great
Policieski of the 1970s, a movie

unavailable in a truly comprehensive
special edition due to rights. issues

hopefully someday

we will have that set right.

I should mention, too, that this is
obviously, particularly in this new

that Cauldron has put together for this
release, a very handsome -looking film.

As I mentioned before, production values
are quite good, but cinematography is

very good, and we have a cinematographer
on this film, Giorgio Di Patista, who

is not one of the great big names in
Italian cinema as far as cinematography

concerned, didn't have a particularly
high profile. career as a

As a matter of fact, I believe this is
the only movie he shot for Rosario Del

Dato, but he had been a camera operator
going back to the late 60s,

and had worked on some interesting
films. Not always great films, but

interesting films. He did a Gallo -style
film in the late 60s for Rosario Brasi

called Psych Out for Murder, which was
completely mutilated for the U .S., and

they added in some soft porn scenes and
whatnot, but the original version is

certainly not without interest.

He worked on one of Antonio Margheriti's
very best films, And God Said to Cain,

Western starring Klaus Kinski. One of
the relatively few Kinski movies where

Kinski is front and center for the
entire film.

It's not one of his just doing a little
scene at the beginning, a little scene

at the end, and getting all of his
scenes done in under a week.

He actually carries that movie. And a
not very good, but kind of endearing

for Ricardo Freyda called Tragic
Ceremony.

So he's had some interesting
collaborations in his background as a

operator, but as a cinematographer,
didn't really seem to have a tremendous

career, but I think did a very good job
on this particular film. Yes, I would

definitely agree with that.

And seeing we are digging into kind of
the crew, cast and crew of this film,

worthy of mention is Pietro Innocenzi,
who is the third producer.

We mentioned, obviously, extensively,
but Pietro Innocenzi is the...

kind of closes the trio.

Pietro Vincenzi was born, artistically
speaking, within the

Luciano Marquino world and, in fact, was
very much probably a

friend, I would imagine, but definitely
somebody who knew Edwidge Fennec well,

who had worked on a number of films
starring Edwidge Fennec, for the most

comedies.

And Pietro Ioncenti starts within Dania
and Luciano Martino as a

production manager, a very prolific one,
with quite an impressive

filmography as a production manager. I
mean, he really works with pretty much

everybody. Luperto Lenzi,

Stelvio Marsi, Lucio Pulci is the
production manager of Conquest, 1983

fantasy.

the only fantasy film directed by Lucio
Fulci.

And the film I personally kind of find
endearing. I find it a fun

little film.

It's definitely unique.

I don't know if the cinematography quite
works as well as it should.

And it definitely...

has issues let's say but it's it's um
it's an interesting film and far from

being one of his worst um as a producer
he's definitely less uh prolific

and has less of a prestigious career but
it's worth mentioning he directs

um very weird complete absolute flop in
1984 antonio

bido which most people remember as a
jungle director

Bloodstained Shadow, and Help Me Out.
What's the other one? Watch Me When I

Kill. Yes, Watch Me When I Kill. Or The
Cat With The Jade Eye. Yes, that's how I

know it. That's the literal translation
from Italian.

And he produces Be Dozomi Comedy in
1984, which turned out to be

a massive flop and pretty much has
disappeared since.

He produces for Sergio Martino,
Casablanca Express, I believe shortly

Balance, I think possibly the year
after, two years after, between 1988 and

1989, another film that is kind of
forgotten, although the cast is there,

believe Donald Pleasance is in it as
well, alongside Glenn Ford, of all

And also produces two very strange...
Well, actually

produces three films with Monica
Guerritore, Gabriele Labia's wife at the

two of which kind of border into the
Giallo -F territory, and they were both

directed by...

Her husband, Gabriele Labia, which
obviously everybody knows for Deep Red

Zeder, and he's a very prestigious, very
well -known Italian stage actor,

which are Fences and Scandalosa Gilda,
which were both done pretty

much back -to -back between 1985 and
1986.

But, interestingly enough...

In the 90s, although never really
becoming prolific, Pietro Innocenzi

reaches national success with Palermo
-Milan, One Way, Claudio

Fragasso's massive undertaking,

his biggest film.

the biggest film in his career, starring
Giancarlo Giannini and Stefania

Sandrelli and a number of high -profile
actors.

And in 2016, also kind of reunited with
Ruggero

Del Dato and produced his Palette in
Blood.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, you
know, as far as Deodato himself is

concerned, you know, in terms of where
his career was at the time, you know,

it's worth talking a little bit about
his background and so forth, obviously.

He's somebody who came up through the
ranks, as it were, had been an assistant

director, had assisted Roberto
Rossellini, for example, had been, you

somebody who had very significant
connections with Sergio Cobucci,

Django and various other films as well,
before getting into directing films, as

many people of his generation did in the
60s, mostly with Peplum and Spaghetti

Westerns, things like that, that were
very popular at the time before he

established himself. which is himself in
the 70s.

Cannibal Holocaust, as we all know for
obvious reasons, is a scandalous movie,

incredibly controversial, banned in some
places, heavily censored just about

everywhere else, a movie that really
caused a great deal of difficulty.

But at the very same year that that
movie comes out, he makes an arguably

nastier film called House on the Edge of
the Park, which doesn't have any real

violence in it. It doesn't have the
notorious scenes of animal violence.

But in terms of its exploration of what
people are capable of doing to each

other, it's probably even a darker and
uglier film in many respects.

And a film that has a connection to this
one, of course, we're going to be

seeing our old friend Giovanni Lombardo
Radice here in short order, who made his

film debut in House on the Edge of the
Park. He comes back here to play a role

as a priest in this film.

But kind of affected his progression of
his career in a certain sense. He was

having some difficulty getting
employment for a period of time.

various different projects kind of
stalled and so forth.

But this is during a period of time when
the Italian film industry in general,

as we've talked about on many occasions,
is starting to go through a bit of a

collapse. Things are starting to really
slow down, this tremendous period of

great prolific creativity that yielded
not just big arthouse sensations, but

also these great beloved genre films
that we know and love so much.

It's all kind of coming to an end during
this period of time.

As I mentioned, this one was shot in
August and September of 1987.

So it's really, this is kind of getting
into the last year or two where there's

kind of respectable kind of production
given to movies of this nature during

this period of time. Dario Ageno, of
course, comes out with Opera during this

time, which is a big film.

But, you know, things are going to be
changing in very short order.

After this film, he follows up with a
very strange, let's say, supernatural

horror. film called dial help um it has
its moments it has its pleasures uh

certainly uh not a an unworthy film but
then he comes back to the jallo in 93

with a movie i am very very fond of
called the washing machine um a movie

probably been hurt by its title more
than anything else i mean it's not an

appetizing title and it doesn't have any
big stars in it which probably also

doesn't help.

But I think a really accomplished movie.
Actually, I think in some respects a

more interesting film even than this
one, but not a movie that's ever really

a tremendous amount of exposure. Again,
I suspect because you don't have the big

names in the cast and the title itself
is kind of, let's face it, a little bit

off -putting.

But that would be his last genre feature
until Ballad of Blood in 2016.

So a lot of TV work in between and more
benign type of subject matter. But, you

know, his run of kind of genre work is
kind of coming to a close around this

time. Yes, I mean, Ruggero Del Dato is
really kind of the quintessential

technical director.

I mean, he really is somebody who I...

I think probably has the longest career
as

an AD.

Definitely among the ones of his
generation, I would probably say the

prolific AD in the 60s. I mean, and as
you said, he works with...

Pretty much everybody.

I mean, from Sergio and Bruno Corbucci,
both of them, to obviously Roberto

Rossellini. I mean, he really gets his
start with Rossellini

for his... Really, actually, because he
was Rossellini's next -door neighbor.

They lived in the same area in Rome,
Parioli, which is very upper class.

part of the city where Ruggero D 'Adato
still lives to this day, and

creates a very strong bond with Roberto
Rossellini's son, well, one

of many, Renzo, Renzo Rossellini, who
later is still alive, still with us. I

know he's not doing very well, though.

health -wise, but he will become the
president of the Goumon company

in the late 70s. And in fact, it's the
man who greenlit Zeta by Pugliavati.

And of course, he was an accomplished AD
and then also directed and now

really is the kind of canter of his
father. He's written more than one book

participated in more books on on various
books on his father but so uh that are

really kind of um

worked in the trenches of cinema. I
mean, he works on an incredible variety

genres and different directors.

Antonio Margheriti as well, somebody he
worked with.

And he was somebody who knew the trade.
I mean, he was a reliable director

and also helped a lot by publicity. I
mean, a lot of the gaps

in Deodato's career are filled with...

uh tv commercials uh he does a lot of
them and i would say that in a

way he dildato kind of stumbled into his
uh kind of imagery kind

of in into his um filmic philosophy or
his his uh his style i

mean

I'm not saying that he didn't have some
sort of style, of approach, narrative

traits he would return to often, but
it's really when he kind of

finds cannibal movies, I mean, Last
Cannibal World first, and obviously

Hulk House, is really when he kind of

finds his...

poetics you know he that kind of
bittersweet concoction of

violence and but also of melancholy he
finds so many

of within that sub -genre he finds so
many of his collaborators he'll use

Rizzo Tolani, of course, which is a
composer that will return numerous

And even that whole idea of using very
sweet, very sad music of

scenes of incredible violence.

And, you know, so much, so many of the
ingredients that were pre -existing in

his career really come together when he
discovers the cannibal movies. And I

think it's one of those cases where...

A film kind of reshapes the career of a
director. It's a little bit like, I

would say, Brian Eustace's first film,
in that case, Society.

That blueprint can just be found
throughout his career, even if he did

completely different films.

subject matters. Cannibal Hulk has never
really disappeared in his career. It

can be found in one way or another in
pretty much everything he's done for

cinema since.

I think it really kind of created a
strong imprint.

But yes, he was a reliable director that
kind of had a

soft spot for controversy.

I mean, he's somebody who didn't mind
tackling

difficult subject matters or, you know,
being, you know, being

in dangerous territories. But to be
fair, he never got, I mean, some of his

films are problematic, especially with,
you know, watching them now.

Some films, you know, have
questionable...

questionable elements to them. But he
never really gets tacky. His films

have a certain elegance.

Because he knows his trade. He knows how
to

manipulate well his

audience. And he does it with a fair
amount of style most of the time.

Yeah, you can always tell the people
who've never seen Cannibal Holocaust by

comments that they make. Oh, it's badly
made. It's badly acted. It's this, it's

that. which is enough to pretty much
tell you, you probably haven't seen it.

You've probably read about it and
thought it sounded reprehensible, and

just decided you're going to attack it
without actually seeing it.

It's actually an extraordinarily well
-made film, extraordinarily well -shot

Sergio Dovizzi.

As you mentioned, a beautiful score by
Rizzottolani and, you know, tremendous

contrast between the beautiful music and
the grim imagery and so forth.

This is not accidental or sloppy or
slapdash filmmaking.

It's an extremely well -made film.

really interesting in its own way, the
earlier Jungle Holocaust, or Last

Cannibal World, which has an
extraordinary central performance by Maz

That's another film that really makes it
very clear this man knows exactly what

it is that he's doing.

And throughout the various different
genres that he's dipped in and out of,

obviously going into the Policieski with
Live Like a Cop, Die Like a Man, which

is a really completely over -the -top,
deranged film with very strong

homoerotic undercurrent or overcurrent
even in the relationship between Ray

Lovelock and Mark Farrell that informs
the central part of that film.

And really, you know, in all the various
other films, as you say, even a movie

like House on the Edge of the Park,
which is an extremely dark and extremely

nihilistic and at times deeply
unpleasant film, I would agree, it's

It's extremely well shot, again by Del
Fizzi, as a matter of fact, and, you

know, again with the Ortolani
soundtrack.

So it's a lot of the same collaborators
coming back, as filmmakers tend to do.

They obviously find people that they
work with extremely well, and you can

it throughout various filmographies. I
don't care whether you're John Ford or

Lucio Fulci.

There are the same collaborators who
come back over and over again for good

reason.

So his films are always distinguished by
that sense of craftsmanship, which is

something that he learned as an AD,
working alongside various different

directors of both big and small
calibers.

But I think that this kind of notion,
this fantasy that Cannibal Holocaust is

just a sort of slapped -ass, sloppy
excuse to shock the viewer is not at all

fair, not at all supported by the movie
itself, which really demonstrates a

tremendous... of cinematic language.

Yes, and speaking of other important
figures

within the crew of this film, I think, I
mean, this is definitely not

superficially a special effects heavy
film,

especially compared to what Del Dato
directed.

But it is a film where special effects
are, in fact, pivotal.

I mean, the transformation, the mutation
that Michael York goes through is

something that only works thanks to the
special makeup effects of somebody who

never gets really mentioned often
despite an incredibly prolific career,

distinguished, which is Dino Gagliano.

Now, Dino Gagliano...

is often working alongside more well
-known

names. I mean, Dino Galliano worked with
Carlo Rambaldi, although only on one

film, but then worked numerous times
with Giannetto De Rossi, with...

Presto Pino. I mean, he really kind of
works with all the major special

the effects masters of that time.

But also did quite a bit also by
himself.

And he can be found,

well,

obviously in a lot of Dania films. We've
understood that this is a very kind of

Dania forged.

film. In fact, he's responsible for the
special effects of, special makeup

effects, of course, we're talking about
here. So, the violent professionals and

violent action, a number of Polizetti,
many of which also

were directed by Bertolensi, syndicate
status come to mind as well.

He really works with everybody.

I mean, impressive are the special
effects he did for Island of the

aimed by Martino, but he works with
Castellari, Corbucci, Steno, Antonio

Margheriti, numerous times, in fact.

He works alongside, I think, some of his
most impressive work is with Alvaro

Passeri, also known as simply Al
Passeri, on Wild Beasts.

by Franco Prosperi, which is an
incredibly

well -made, quite bizarre, bizarrely

lit and bizarrely short, but very
effective echo vengeance horror directed

one of the Mundo Masters, Franco
Prosperi.

Not to be mistaken with the other Franco
Prosperi, Francesco Prosperi, who was

just a straight director of fiction, of
films.

And Nino Gagliano also did responsible
the special makeup effects

of Four Flies and Grey Velvet.

by Dario Argento. So we're looking at
somebody who, or And God Said to Cain by

Antonio Margheriti, which is one of my
favorite Westerns, starring Klaus

So, I mean, he is somebody who really
knows what he's doing. And by the time

reaches Off Balance or Phantom of Death,
he's somebody with about 20 years

career, 20 years spanning career behind
him.

So yeah, Dino Gagliano definitely
deserves tip of the hat for what I think

pretty good special effects.

They work.

Oh yeah.

The aging makeup, I think, on Michael
York is quite good. I'm pleased to see

that in a high -definition transfer,
they hold up. I mean, sometimes you get

these films cleaned up and get a better
look at them, and you can start to see

the seams and so forth. But I think that
the makeup bears close scrutiny, which,

of course, it needs to.

That would have been something that
Deodato was well aware of because of the

he was planning on covering scenes.

You know, you couldn't just film Michael
York in a long shot and expect to sell

the idea that he had aged. You're going
to be able to need to get up close. and

so forth. So the makeup is very good.
There's some very good splatter effects

too, which is definitely Deodato kind of
tipping his hat to his newfound legacy

as a purveyor of cinematic shocks.

So the murder scenes perhaps aren't as
elaborately choreographed and

fetishistically sort of staged as what
you would get in an Argento or Fulci

film. But in terms of delivering the red
stuff, they certainly don't.

They don't hold back. There's a fair
amount of arterial spray and so forth

we get in the film. So very, very
effective.

And going with our deep dive into the
crew and with Dania, we could also

mention our editor here, Daniele
Albizzo, who is a very prolific editor

the 1960s. He's worked with...

You know, so many of these people that
we've been talking about off and on. Of

course, Deodato, he'd worked with
previously on Jungle Holocaust, did a

of the films that Lindsay did for Dania,
including Syndicate Status and The

Tough Ones.

He also cut Nightmare City for Lindsay.

You know, don't call it a zombie movie.

It's one of Lindsay's most purely
enjoyable films, however you want to

it. Also did Massimo Dallamano's first
yellow, very interesting film from the

late 60s called A Black Veil for Lisa.

The original Italian title, Blue,
translates to Death Has No Sex, another

that was kind of mutilated and
reconfigured for U .S. consumption,

reshuffled and so forth.

The Italian version is much better. And
did a very interesting film for Armando

Caspino as well, Autopsy, with Mimsy
Farmer.

So, yeah, I mean, he's obviously
somebody else whose career is quite

and intersects with many of the major
directors and some of the big cult films

of the period.

Yeah. And on my side, to conclude, the
crew members

worth mentioning, we have also Octaviano
de Lacqua, the

stunt coordinator.

This is not a stunt -heavy film, but
there are a few falls and

definitely moments where a stunt was
needed.

When I interviewed Octaviano de Lacqua
about the film, he mentioned having had

very small role in it, although I have
to admit, I did not notice him.

While seeing the film, I've never
noticed him, which I mean, he probably,

might remember just confused films or
simply made

a mistake or that his kind of cameo
appearance was cut and, you know, ended

on the

editing room floor.

But Ottaviano Dell 'Acqua, I mean, I
think for most people, you know,

who doesn't really need any
introduction.

I mean, he comes from a family of
acrobats and circus performers.

One of the biggest Italian stunt
families. I mean, I...

At some point, we all stopped,
collectively stopped counting.

I mean, I think there are about 10, 11,
the luck was...

working in films, different moments in
time.

Ottaviano, obviously, is kind of the
crown jewel of the family, if you will,

definitely the most famous abroad.

Of course, he is Eye Worm from Zombie
Flesh Eaters, a .k .a. Zombie, by Lucio

Pulci.

which, and he always likes telling me
that he is the most, he's beaten, I

don't know exactly what he means by
that, but every time he tells me he's

Freddy Krueger with the role of I -Worm.

Beat Freddy Krueger. I don't know if he
means that literally. I don't know. I

don't know. I've never really dug
deeper.

But, yeah, of course, he's the eye worm
from Zombie, and he is also the lead,

together with his colleague and very,
very, very close friend, Massimo Banni.

He is the lead in Rats, Night of Terror
by Bruno Mattei, which is...

Kind of a cult favorite of mine. I mean,
I think it's wonderfully delirious.

If somebody's listening and hasn't seen
Rap, I suggest, you know, just do

it.

blindly go towards the light, go towards
rats.

It's well worth it. It was all shot on
the same locations, you know,

the same production design of Once Upon
a Time in America by Sergio Leone.

Those are the sets of Once Upon a Time
in America.

So, I mean, it's an incredible film.

Directed by Bruno Mattei and Claudio
Fragasso.

that wasn't credited, though, as the
director.

The list is infinite.

He's worked on, I think, officially
probably a couple of hundred films,

but the list of uncredited work pretty
much never ends.

He's fallen, tripped, been hit or hit
someone else.

even if it's just for a very brief scene
in many, many, many films. He even

participated in John Wick 2 and one of
the

latest James Bond films that was shot in
Rome.

So, I mean, he's just very much
deserving

of his cult status.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And speaking of cult status, I would be
kicking myself furiously later on if I

neglected to bring this up. I didn't
have the heart to cut in on you talking,

but we will acknowledge the scene that
we just had with Donald Pleasance having

a full meltdown in the street and saying
the F -bomb, I think, for the only time

in his cinematic career. I cannot
remember the man ever using such vulgar

language in another film. He's part of
that group of actors, that generation of

Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee.

Can you imagine these people saying the
F -bomb in a film? I know I can't. So

Donald Pleasence saying, I'll fucking
kill you is something worth noting. It's

probably the only time it ever happened
in a film. Certainly, I can't say that

I've seen every single film he was ever
in, but it's the only one I can remember

where that happened. So I had to point
that out.

Yes, and now this scene was all

shot.

Adolgiata, which is an area ever so
slightly out of Rome,

going north, and it's an area of kind of
very

lavish, very kind of high -class villas

and kind of picket fences. It's very
unlike what you'd associate to...

to rome um you know the small alleys and
the big monuments and uh and it's

very upper class a very very not it's
associated with a lot of snobbery and

of the themes are not supposed to be
ojata but some of the themes towards the

end were shot there probably to match
where they where they had shot

Yeah, well, that's one of those things
that's lost on non -Italians, obviously.

But if you know the area, it's like
seeing films that are shot in and around

York and so forth or any other major
city, whether it be London or Los

or whatever.

You know, the imaginary geography that's
constructed in some of these films can

be quite amazing sometimes where a short
stroll in a film would really take you

many, many miles and many, many hours to
complete in real life. So not an

unusual thing at all, it has to be said.

Now, this film, as I've mentioned a
couple times before, was shot between

and September of 1987.

It appears that it was actually rushed
through post -production pretty quickly.

pretty briskly because it had its first
screening at MIFED just in time for

Halloween of 1987.

It did not go into general release,
however, in Italy until March of 1988,

having been passed for release by the
Italian censors at the end of January.

So, you know, fairly brisk post
-production process involved in the

this film. Again, considering the fact
that you get a composer like D 'Onozio

board and so forth, time was still of
the essence, although...

You know, I'm sure DiNagio, like
Morricone, was not a stranger to working

great duress. And probably like
Morricone, I would imagine, you know, if

heard enough DiNagio scores.

And it's the same thing with all of
these composers.

Silvio Cipriani is the most notorious
example where you hear the scales all

time in his scores. I mean, it's the
great kidnapping, rabid dogs, what have

they done to your daughters, you know,
ad nauseum.

It's always the same music type that you
hear over and over again.

DiNagio definitely has certain
distinctive types of themes and so forth

hear, which we may presume probably he
had a drawer of certain things he could

go to, suspense music, sad music.

things like that that he'd be able to
pull out and recycle on a pretty

consistent basis.

Because like Morricone, he's insanely
prolific. He's getting a lot of

films, again, as we said before, varying
different sizes, big and small, going.

So, yeah, time is of the essence
definitely in a film such as this.

And this whole thing here with the dog,
by the way, as an animal lover, I always

find this particularly rather touching
and moving. It's a side that you don't

get to see in many Dodo films, which are
known to be rather more coarse and

rather more brutal and vicious. This
movie has a kind of melancholy quality

it, which is probably one of the reasons
that I rank it fairly highly in his

filmography.

Yes, I mean, it is a very sad film with
a strong

melancholic streak going through it.

I mean, a lot of the people, I mean, if
Del Dato does kind of have an ambivalent

relationship with the film, most of the
people who worked on it actually

remember it pretty fondly. I mean, I
know Gianni Lombardo Radice.

he has a special place in his heart for
this film, although he has quite a small

role.

By the second half of the 80s, Giovanni
Lombardo Radice, although working and

being still quite prolific, his role had
gotten a lot smaller.

I mean, if we consider that between...

1980 and 1984.

He works on such films as The House on
Virgil Park, where his role as Ricky,

although being, I believe, the fourth or
even fifth name.

on the uh on the billboard is in fact is
is the co -protagonist i mean ricky is

is just as important pretty much as
david hess's character um but of

course even his role as bob in city of
the living dead uh is is incredibly

important narratively speaking and the
screen time is is okay it's pretty hefty

uh he definitely has some steel scenic
moments in the film.

And of course, he had been the lead in
Cannibal Ferox, his first 100 %

leading role in a film, Cannibal Ferox
by Umberto Lenzi.

Umberto Lenzi's last effort within the
cannibalistic subgenre.

Johnny Lombardo Radice, really in this
period of time, he's working mostly, and

even out of the set, he is very much,
he's bonded deeply with Michele Suavi,

and of course many people remember him
in The Sect and The Church and Stage

Fright.

He was supposed to also appear in Della
Morta dell 'Amore, but...

Pretty much there wasn't a role that was
suitable for him and they couldn't

really kind of make it work for Radice.

But Johnny Omar Radice does have a very
deep relationship with...

off balance and in fact describes the
scene he had with Michael York as being

something close to mystical.

He has stated a number of times when
I've interviewed him that he,

while acting and looking at Michael York
in the eyes, he kind of felt this...

strange, mystical attraction, which he
doesn't describe as sexual, but

nearly kind of sexless kind of force

pulling him towards Michael York.

Kind of a Stendhal syndrome actor's
version.

That's kind of how he describes it.

um kind of being being completely
enraptured in the moment and uh and

from it so um and he that that's the
only time this kind of um

pseudo -intellectual uh emotional uh
attraction this is the only time

he's ever felt that uh for another actor
uh while working uh so um so yeah

so he he has the great

has greatly fond memories of this film
in particular.

Yeah.

And the actor who was appearing opposite
Donald Pleasance in that previous

scene, Familiar Face 2, Marino Massey,
who we know from films like Santa Brave

as well as enormous productions like The
Leopard, Belly of an Architect,

Godfather 3.

So very familiar face.

Quite recently, a couple of years ago.
Yeah.

Yeah, as a matter of fact, it was this
year, wasn't it, actually? I think it

earlier this year. I could be wrong,
though.

Certainly. Somebody who left us
recently, regardless, and had a long,

interesting career. But, you know, he's
another one of those actors who just

comes in, probably worked for an
afternoon on the film, and that was

But, yeah, I mean, referencing Lombardo
Radice, of course, his notoriety is

something that he's embraced in more
recent years. For years, he had a very

deeply ambivalent attitude about his
relationship with Italian genre films

because he's a very serious stage actor.

always kind of kept the stage side and
the film side separate. Very often he

billed as John Morgan in these films,
whereas his quote -unquote legitimate

acting work on the stage was proudly
under his own name.

He always told the story about Lucio
Fulci having shown up at his house one

time for a party, and at one point...
Fulci had to use the restroom, and he

into the bathroom and saw the poster for
City of the Living Dead was hanging in

the bathroom. And Fulci came out and
said, ladies and gentlemen, I'm in the

So he definitely had this kind of
ambivalent attitude for a long time,

he's embraced it in recent years, has
been going, participating in the

convention circuit, which is also
lucrative, to be fair. I mean, I'm sure

has a lot to do with it. It helps you.

supplement his income.

But his first films, obviously, you
know, doing films for Deodato, Fulci,

Margheriti, you know, Margheriti, of
course, is known as a kind of gentleman

director. He's very calm, very quiet,
very placid, respectful on set, not the

type of ferocious.

powerhouse on set that somebody like
Lindsay is or Deodato or Fulci.

And Lombardo Boudicchi always has said
and told me, as a matter of fact, that

liked Fulci.

He's very fond of Deodato, hated Lindsay
with a passion, hated him with the heat

of a thousand suns and has said very
numerous negative things about him,

when those things got back to Lindsay,
Lindsay started replying in kind and

would say things like, oh, he's only
known for my movie and for a little bit.

little cameo in one of Lucio Fulci's
movies, which is not quite accurate

because, as you said, his role in City
of the Living Dead can't be described as

a cameo.

It's a fairly substantial part and a
very memorable one.

But a lot of bawling back and forth,
insults and so forth infamously on that

film, which Lombardo Radice is not a fan
of, putting it mildly. But he always

said that, you know, with Fulci, Fulci's
kind of outbursts had a cause. They had

a purpose.

They were usually caused by prima donnas
on the set or by people being lazy, not

doing what they were supposed to do, so
he would flip out and kind of get

everybody back on their feet and doing
what they were supposed to be doing. So

he always felt it was for a good reason.

Deodato, he felt, leavened his nastiness
with a lot of humor, which he really

appreciated. He thought Deodato was a
hysterically funny man, whereas he said

Lindsay was just flat -out mean. Lindsay
was just a bully and a braggart and an

egomaniac and all that. all these other
things so uh that was where he drew the

line you know even though he was aware
that deodato had made this infamous

cannibal holocaust and i'm sure would be
you know horrified by some of the

things in it um he has always maintained
a very happy relationship with him

whereas going off with lindsey to make
cannibal ferox was something that uh was

a uh well let's say a deeply unpleasant
experience that he's never forgotten or

forgiven yeah Yes, indeed.

I mean, another director Radice has
always criticized, and not quite as

vigorously as in the case of Lenzi, but
definitely a director he was not fond of

was Fabrizio De Angelis, who directed

Radice, Lombardo Radice, in

Impatto Mortale.

Deadly Weapon, I believe the American
title is, starring Bose, Venson, Fred

Williamson. And Manny Lombardo de Dica
played one of the villains in the film,

one of the antagonists.

As he often did, he would always have
these very ambiguous, both ambiguous,

sexually and also in their kind of goals
and intent.

And yes, De Angelis was someone else for
different reasons. De Angelis was,

according to Lomar de la Riche, very
cynical. He was also the producer of the

film. So he kind of pretty much had free
range and could do whatever he wanted.

And it was impossible to ask him
anything or, you know, bring forward a

complaint or a suggestion. He would just
shut everybody off.

unless they were the big stars of the
film. In that case, they had kind of the

possibility of talking to him freely.

So, yeah, Johnny and Maradona always had
a kind of a

difficult relationship when it came to
genre films.

to be fair, cinema in general.

Although recently he did tell me, you
know, if I had known that, you know,

were the films people were going to be
talking about, I would have taken things

a lot more seriously and done a lot more
of them.

Radice refused a lot of films around
that time.

You know, he really saw these
productions as a possibility of funding

his theatre.

pieces and his lifestyle he's often
talked about um specifically referring

the early 80s and the period in which he
was um um acting in the cannibal ferox

uh he really needed money also because
of his drug problem he's been very open

about his cocaine addiction um and and
so i mean he he really did have um

yeah a difficult Difficult time. Let's
remember also he is a writer, a

screenwriter as well.

He actually wrote,

although there wasn't a director
attached to the project at the time.

So, you know, it came completely to a
surprise that Lindsay ended up directing

it. But Radisha did write the... I mean,
I don't know about you, Troy, but I

think it could be one of...

I mean, it's definitely in my book, one
of Lindsay's worst films, which is

Daughter of the Jungle. I have great
difficulties finding redeeming elements

that film.

Well, don't forget, even bad Umberto
Lindsay films are still masterpieces.

Yeah, indeed.

How could I forget?

No, it is pretty bad. It has some
interesting, if you dig deep, some

interesting sort of subtextual kind of
social commentary going on, which may be

a stretch. I don't know.

It is enough to elevate it a little bit
above something like the Perino comedy

that Lindsay did, which is probably the
absolute bottom of the Lindsay barrel.

But yeah, Lindsay and comedies were not
necessarily a great mix.

No, no, well, Radice, you know, wrote
that, although he's often stated that

original script was completely taken
apart and very, very little remains of

original story. He also wrote Por Duccio
d 'Ezzari, Aeroporto

Internazionale, a TV series for
television, and of

course...

probably most people listening will
know, he did write a script for House on

Edge of the Park Part 2, which was never
made.

And there's a lot to say about that
never -made

project. But Radishu did write more than
one version of the script that saw

his character as the lead.

Ricky was supposed to be the...

at the center of the story.

But, yes.

Dildato was interested in directing it,
but it was supposed to be a British

production initially. First, there was a
hint from Germany, a hint of interest,

but then it was supposed to be a British
production. But, yeah, it wasn't

supposed to be.

It's one of those things I've read about
it and I've heard about it enough that

I think, I don't know, it may be just as
well it didn't happen. I'm not entirely

sure.

Recapturing that magic all those years
after the fact, in the same way that

there was talk of years of there being a
cannibal holocaust part two, it's kind

of like after a certain point, it's
probably a good idea not to go back to

because...

trying to revisit this sort of subject
matter so many years on might not be the

best of ideas. But you'll never know, of
course.

Maybe it could have been a remarkable
piece of work. I'll never know because

it's never been made.

But, yeah.

You can never tell how these things are
going to turn out.

Obviously, there was no talk of a
phantom of death or off balance part

would be very difficult. The thing is
how our killer is unfortunately now

leaving us. I guess we could have done
the further adventures of Inspector

Dottie, which I should say.

The fact that his name is, well, Daddy,
it's pronounced Daddy. It does sound

slightly funny on the English track,
even though it is Michael York. And, you

know, there is a fair amount of
production audio on this film, as far as

tell. It does very often sound like he's
calling him Daddy, which could be an

interesting little bit of subtext into
this film that we have not explored.

The killer's daddy issues here with
Donald Pleasance.

looking at him very disapprovingly as
the son who has let him down.

God, I think we have to redo this and
just analyze that

route. I'm sure many would agree with
you.

Yes, well, we're coming close to the
end.

I mean, it's quite a sad ending.

It's very... Yeah, very melancholic.

It's maybe not completely surprising.
The film was not a massive hit in Italy.

It did well over time, thanks to VHS and
television, and it kind of

managed to recoup most of the money, but
it was not a success by any means,

which is not surprising, I think, for
the genre it's part of, and possibly for

the... quite depressing main theme and
kind of just general story.

Yeah, no, it probably wasn't destined to
be a big box office hit, although it

had to come just a few years earlier.
Who knows? It may have done well.

As we said, Donald Pleasance had been a
part of Nothing Underneath just a few

years before, which did do extremely
well.

But perhaps that was slightly more
commercial in some respects.

But anyway, here we are all these years
later looking back at this film that I

think is a very interesting example of a
genre, one of the last really kind of

good, slick, well -crafted Italian genre
films of its period.

and it's been a lot of fun talking to
you about it.

Absolutely, same here.

Hope everybody enjoyed that, and yes,

here we go.

Until next time, ciao.

Ciao.