All language subtitles for Michael.Jackson.The.Trial.S01E04.The.Reckoning.1080p.ALL4.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-RAWR_track3_[eng]

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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,720 Innocent! 2 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,080 Innocent! Innocent! 3 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,360 {\an5}'Michael Jackson is back in court for what could be the most crucial phase' 4 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,040 of his trial on child abuse charges. 5 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,880 A key prosecution witness is expected to testify today. 6 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,120 We needed to put Gavin's mother on the witness stand. 7 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,560 {\an8}Janet was intelligent, 8 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,720 not well educated, but intelligent, 9 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,200 and had a very good memory of events. 10 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,240 {\an8}This is someone who was a guest at Michael Jackson's ranch 11 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,000 during the period of time that he engaged in the alleged molestations, 12 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,080 and they were worried about her. 13 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,120 She was capable of blowing a whistle 14 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,240 in a way that could be very harmful for them. 15 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,960 'Gavin's mother is a key witness, and some observers believe 16 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,720 'the outcome of this trial could hinge on her testimony.' 17 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,640 {\an8}Throughout the trial I had to give Michael Jackson 18 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,360 the benefit of the doubt. 19 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,680 That's what a defendant has a right to. 20 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,960 Not guilty until proven guilty. 21 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,160 But I thought, when Janet Arvizo got on the stand, 22 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,640 she would be convincing enough to make things look bad 23 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,360 for Michael Jackson. 24 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,400 I wanted the jury to know that when Janet was in Neverland, 25 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,120 she was very distrusting of what was going on. 26 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,560 They were continuously trying to separate her from the children. 27 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,320 She told the jury that she's relegated 28 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,440 to one of the guest cottages on the property. 29 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,160 Her sons are in the house, in his room. 30 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,920 The front door is locked. 31 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:58,160 So her kids are no longer with her and she doesn't have access to them. 32 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,560 And you couldn't just walk into his bedroom unannounced. 33 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,080 There's a combination lock in the access to the bedroom suite. 34 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,560 And then you walk down a hallway, 35 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,040 and the hallway had chimes in it that were activated 36 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,200 by a motion detector. So he would hear chimes going off 37 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,640 if somebody was walking down the hallway. 38 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Do you think Janet knew that her son was being molested? 39 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,520 I asked her that many times. 40 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,360 She certainly had concerns. 41 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,520 She reached the point where she knew she just 42 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,360 had to get out of there, and she had to get her kids out of there. 43 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,920 But she just wasn't allowed to leave. 44 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,440 To keep her and the kids on Neverland, they were telling her, 45 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,640 there are killers who want to do harm to her children, 46 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,560 you need to stay here. 47 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,960 Very quiet. Thank you. 48 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,880 Janet told the jury she was compelled to do this video 49 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,720 by Michael Jackson's people, because they knew 50 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,280 that the Bashir documentary was a problem for him. 51 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,760 So they had the whole family sitting in chairs talking about 52 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,480 how wonderful Michael Jackson was, 53 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,240 but it was a tape that they did deliberately 54 00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:19,720 to be able to use in the contingency of this happening, 55 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,640 where there was an arrest, where there was a prosecution. 56 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,240 My responsibility of a mother is to make sure that my children 57 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:30,200 are in safe... 58 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,880 ...safety. 59 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,400 They were controlling her and where she went, 60 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,400 and what she did, and who she talked to. 61 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,440 You know, they were desperate to keep this under the carpet. 62 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,800 The stories by these accusers were extraordinarily convincing. 63 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,240 I'm sorry, I can't comment. 64 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,120 I'm sorry, I can't comment. 65 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,920 {\an8}Was she kidnapped? Absolutely not. 66 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,360 Most false fabrication you ever heard in your life. 67 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,600 Most of the jurors were really taken aback by what Janet said 68 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,360 on the witness stand. 69 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,680 But I think they were not totally convinced 70 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,080 that the allegation was true. 71 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,920 {\an8}None of it computed, none of it made sense to me. 72 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:40,880 My family's visit to Neverland coincided with the Arvizo family. 73 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,000 We said hello to them and we got to know them 74 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,040 and their kids seemed like, really friendly. 75 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,160 Gavin, thank God, seemed healthy, which was a really good thing. 76 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,000 And I spoke to his mother and she explained to me the journey 77 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,440 they had been on. 78 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,880 I felt that they were very happy to be at Neverland. 79 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,160 Gavin was completely normal and there was no weirdness 80 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,480 with his family, so none of this stuff makes sense. 81 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,120 I am subpoenaed by the prosecution 82 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,440 to testify about what I saw at Neverland. 83 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,120 'His name is Rudy Provencio. 84 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,560 {\an8}'He reportedly has kept diaries and logs about some of the weirdness 85 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,720 'and things that he thought wasn't quite right.' 86 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,400 I was fearful and anxious, 87 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,360 but I didn't see anything wrong with just telling 88 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,040 the truth of what I know, especially when a child 89 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,120 might have been violated in some way. 90 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,120 It's a person's responsibility. 91 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,520 I told the jury I had overheard a conversation 92 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,240 that is being told to the mother 93 00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:01,440 that these killers could be out there to get you, and you have 94 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,120 to be careful, you need protection. 95 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,960 It was obvious to me that they were worried 96 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,480 that the Avrizos were going to talk and make the problem worse 97 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,640 for Michael. 98 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:23,440 One of the witnesses that I remember quite clearly was Rudy Provencio. 99 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,320 Um, I totally believed him. 100 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,120 Thought he was telling the truth about his feelings, 101 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,480 about the Arvizos, and that they were being held at the ranch. 102 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,880 Rudy was a compelling witness. 103 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:48,040 And not only that, we found a tape where they recorded the call, 104 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,920 and they told her there are killers 105 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,480 who are out there who want to do harm. 106 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,040 'The DA revealed today that they actually corroborate 107 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,840 'some of the points she claimed. So a lot of the stories 108 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,520 'she tells seems to be true.' 109 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,400 I told Michael, I said, "Michael, if you had done this, 110 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,480 "it makes you a freakazoid. 111 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,200 "It makes you horrible." 112 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,560 He says, "I know, Brian." 113 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,160 Michael said, "Brian, I didn't do those things. 114 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,760 "Never. Never. Brian, show them it's not true. 115 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,880 "Tell them. Tell the world." 116 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,400 I told Michael I would overturn every stone, and I did. 117 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,080 Michael Jackson's defence team got a hold of every record 118 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,600 dealing with the entire family. 119 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Not just Gavin, but everyone. 120 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,560 So, any job application that their mother had ever applied for, 121 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,720 they were able to get their hands on it. 122 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,640 Medical records, they got their hands on. 123 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:51,920 Gavin, of course, had been horribly sick and undergone surgery. 124 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,880 They had all of his medical records as well. 125 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,400 They had the gynaecological records of his sister, 126 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,120 who at the time was 15 years old. 127 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,960 There was no piece of paper that they ever generated 128 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,120 that they weren't going to get their hands on. 129 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,280 There was nothing in their lifetime 130 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,680 that they weren't going to know about. 131 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,400 The mother was getting welfare 132 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,320 from the Los Angeles County Bureau of Welfare. 133 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,200 When you apply for welfare, 134 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,560 you must do a full welfare application. 135 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:32,120 And I sat in my office looking at this, going, 136 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,760 "Oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my!" 137 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,600 Talk about a gold mine. 138 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,720 Michael Jackson's defence team gets its first chance today 139 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,360 to cross-examine the mother of the pop star's main accuser. 140 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:50,080 The documents showed repeated continuous falsity, 141 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,040 concealing the money that Michael spent taking him to day spa, 142 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,200 getting him bikini wax, buying this and paying that, 143 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,400 and, and, and luxury dinners. 144 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,760 They concealed it all. 145 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,760 They lied to welfare. 146 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,000 And you won't believe what they did before. 147 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,200 'The jury heard, she made previous accusations of sexual assault, 148 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,200 {\an8}'claiming security guards at this JCPenney store...' 149 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:22,040 {\an8}'..and that a Tower Records security guard...' 150 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,200 The family had claimed that they were molested by a security guard 151 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,080 at JCPenney. 152 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 The guard just said, "Oh, you got to be kidding." 153 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,200 Well, JCPenney's parted with $152,000, 154 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,680 and all of this was concealed from welfare. 155 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,480 They're just defrauding everybody they can defraud. 156 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:54,600 And when Michael Jackson brought this family into his fold, 157 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,800 this was a moment of opportunity 158 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,040 that they took to bring down 159 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,120 the greatest, biggest superstar in the world. 160 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,600 This was all a scam. 161 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,840 {\an8}The defence was painting the accuser's family as grifters, 162 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,800 {\an8}as people who went after celebrities for money. 163 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,120 What I've learned covering trials is that the best lawyers 164 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,240 are good storytellers, and if they tell a story 165 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,960 that the jury can picture and absorb and go, 166 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,960 "Aha, I get that", that is damning. 167 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,160 They were trying to show that she was just looking for a payday. 168 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,720 I knew it wasn't true, but this was what Michael Jackson would do. 169 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,080 Discredit the mothers of these children. 170 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,200 Even as Michael Jackson, through the course of the trial, 171 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,640 was becoming frail and more gaunt and thinner, 172 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:15,720 it looked like the chances of him walking away a free man 173 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,240 were increasing with every disastrous prosecution witness. 174 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,600 'Next month, Wade Robson leaves his home town of Brisbane 175 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,440 'for Los Angeles, where he'll live 176 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,960 'with the reclusive millionaire entertainer.' 177 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,760 What's the thing you most want to do then? 178 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,320 - Um, stay with Michael forever. - Really? All right. 179 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,240 I understood the importance of being able to locate other victims. 180 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,280 And, of course, um, Wade Robson was at the top of the list, 181 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,080 because we knew that he had been involved with Michael Jackson 182 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,440 for years. 183 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,880 We were absolutely convinced that he was a victim, 184 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,640 even though he had not come forward and disclosed it. 185 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,080 Wade Robson was a successful choreographer 186 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,360 and Jackson was instrumental in getting his career going. 187 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,480 Thank you, Britney. 188 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:24,240 We reached out to him hoping that he would testify and he said no. 189 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,320 There was another young boy from Australia, Brett Barnes, 190 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,360 who travelled with him throughout Europe 191 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,560 and South America over a year. 192 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,480 But he wouldn't testify. 193 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,880 Jimmy Safechuck, we believed he was a victim, 194 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,160 but he wouldn't come forward either. 195 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,600 So we needed the cooperation of all of them 196 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,200 and we had the cooperation of none of them. 197 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,920 But, you know, I understand. 198 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,920 I handled a number of child molest cases over the years. 199 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,600 It's a tough thing for kids to come forward 200 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,120 and publicly talk about having been victim of sex crime 201 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,360 and they disclose when they disclose. 202 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,920 And there's nothing we can do to speed up that process. 203 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,000 - Michael innocent. - Michael innocent. 204 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,640 We also understood that it's not easy 205 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,280 being an accuser of Michael Jackson. 206 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,520 It's not easy dealing with his fans. 207 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,800 There are multitudes of them and they can be vicious. 208 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,360 I was getting death threats on a regular basis saying, 209 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,360 "I know where you live. I know where your children are. 210 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,320 "I know your wife's name. I'm going to kill all of them." 211 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,120 I mean, it was horrible. 212 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,320 Michael innocent, Michael innocent. 213 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,240 There was that absurdity. 214 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,040 {\an8}And almost like a cult-like following. 215 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,000 People who loved Michael Jackson, they defended him to the teeth. 216 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,160 You know, they referred to him more like a god. 217 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,720 {\an1}SCREAMING 218 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,880 He trained his fans to be his soldiers. 219 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,800 There's no question. 220 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,760 {\an8}His behaviour, this idea that he was such a victim 221 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,960 and he needed this protection. 222 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,720 His fans bought it hook, line and sinker. 223 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,880 And boy, oh, boy, did they ever come to his defence. 224 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,800 It's been a white knuckle ride, 225 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,160 but now, 43 days after it started, the prosecution has rested its case. 226 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720 And it's time now for Michael Jackson 227 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,760 to tell his side of the story. 228 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,600 The prosecution had said that Wade Robson 229 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,480 was molested by Michael Jackson. 230 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,600 I had called Wade. 231 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,880 He was in Australia. 232 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,480 "Wade, you've got to come and testify." 233 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,320 "Bryan, I have told everybody it's not true. 234 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,400 "I wasn't molested. I'm not coming. 235 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,880 "No, I'm not. I'm not setting foot anywhere near this." 236 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,600 I must have called him at least six times. 237 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,400 Finally, he says, "You're a persistent man." 238 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,360 I say, "Yes, I am, Wade." 239 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,160 The first witness for the defence was Wade Robson. 240 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,360 It's interesting because Wade Robson has said 241 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,480 that he declined and then was subpoenaed by the defence. 242 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:49,200 But when he did take the stand, he was a very strong witness. 243 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,400 Wade Robson told jurors he first met Jackson at age five 244 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,240 and shared a bed with him more than 20 times until he was 14. 245 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,800 He got up in that courtroom and he said, 246 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,920 "Michael Jackson never molested me. 247 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,680 "Michael Jackson never put his hands any place 248 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,720 "that they weren't supposed to be. 249 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,840 "Michael Jackson never harmed me. 250 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,880 "Michael Jackson did not commit child molestation with me." 251 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,600 Uncanny testimony. 252 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,040 Fabulous. 253 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,200 That was a problem for us 254 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,880 because we were really hammering on the fact that he was a victim 255 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,080 and he's up there saying, "I'm not. I'm telling you, it didn't happen." 256 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:34,040 The second defence witness, Brett Barnes, 257 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,960 said the same thing, adding, 258 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,720 "I can tell you that if he had, I wouldn't be here." 259 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,560 Did they do a good job? 260 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,960 Oh, my. You betcha. 261 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,680 The defence has now presented its witness list 262 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,800 and there are some big Hollywood heavy hitters on there. 263 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280 When this started, 264 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,040 a lot of people felt that this was an open and shut case, 265 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,400 But it became a soap opera, as they say, 266 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,040 but really a soap opera on steroids. 267 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,240 The prosecution was claiming that Michael's employee 268 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,480 saw Michael put his hands up Macaulay Culkin's pants 269 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,520 and play with his privates. 270 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,000 OK. Well, what does Mac say? 271 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,160 What does Macaulay Culkin say? 272 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,920 One of the most anticipated witnesses 273 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,840 in the Michael Jackson case took the stand today. 274 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,840 Macaulay Culkin denied it 275 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,160 and to this day denies that he was molested by Michael Jackson. 276 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,960 You know, I remember cross-examining Macaulay Culkin 277 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,200 and he's an actor, you know, 278 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,160 and so everything has a certain flair to it. 279 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,360 His appearance, his fame, his celebrity. 280 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,720 He was just an extraordinarily effective witness. 281 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,480 We live in a celebrity driven society, 282 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,400 and people are really attracted to celebrities. 283 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,440 They're mesmerised by them. 284 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,600 So that certainly happened at the trial 285 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,120 and I'm sure the jury was impacted too. 286 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,600 During the trial, Gavin's mind was completely scrambled. 287 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,920 It was heartbreaking. 288 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,120 They were just stuck in this apartment for months and months. 289 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,120 There was a school... 290 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,280 ..out the window 291 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,360 and they'd just look at the kids going. 292 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,840 They just wanted to be in school. 293 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,800 This was... This was really tough on everybody. 294 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,080 Gavin was by himself in that trial. 295 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,240 He was literally by himself. 296 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,080 And it made... 297 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,000 It was very burdensome for him. 298 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,000 It was very challenging. 299 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,560 But he was courageous and he never told us, 300 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,120 "I'm not going to do it. I can't do it. 301 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,400 This is just ruining my life." 302 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,200 But he understood the importance of it. 303 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,640 At 15, he understood his obligation to do it. 304 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,640 The trial had raised a lot of doubts, in my mind anyway. 305 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,920 So I wanted to talk to Gavin. 306 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,760 I wanted to, you know, get a chance to talk to him myself. 307 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,800 You know, obviously all was off the record, 308 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,680 and, I didn't report it because, you know, 309 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,800 I wanted to respect his privacy. 310 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,200 He says, you know, "The world has me all wrong." 311 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,160 He says, you know, "I enjoyed my time with him. 312 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,920 "You know, just the things he did was wrong. He hurt me." 313 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,320 And I just thought, wow, you know, 314 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,680 this kid is telling me that this grown man, 315 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,400 this international icon, hurt him. 316 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,440 I couldn't help but to believe him. 317 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,080 I found no reason not to believe him. 318 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,680 Michael, are you happy the case is almost over? 319 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,080 His silence will be maintained. 320 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,600 It's now certain that Michael Jackson 321 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,560 won't be taking the witness stand in his own defence. 322 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,360 Just as it seemed that this case was drawing quietly to an end, 323 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,400 there is word of a possible dramatic finale. 324 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,720 Months before the trial actually started, 325 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,960 the police had interviewed Gavin. 326 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,320 And I wanted the jury to see it. 327 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,080 {\an5}Because I think if you watch that, it's very hard for somebody to watch that and say, 328 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,560 "Oh, yeah, they're making the whole thing up." 329 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,080 He wanted to show you how to masturbate? 330 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,480 OK. 331 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,920 OK. 332 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,080 Did he put it on the outside? 333 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:17,600 Inside? 334 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,520 And what did he do next? 335 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,840 OK. 336 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,800 If there was a smoking gun in the whole case, 337 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,520 that was Gavin's interview with the sheriff's department. 338 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,440 I had really been convinced that Gavin was telling the truth. 339 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:55,200 Others on the jury saw this as not being the case at all. 340 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,680 A lot of people in that courtroom were very moved by that video. 341 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,640 - I got to tell you, Jim... - Go ahead. 342 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,200 A lot of people were moved by that video, 343 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,040 but a lot of people thought the kid was acting. 344 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,680 You know, I suppose there's reasonable doubt that he made it up. 345 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,000 Or he was he was told by Janet to, erm... 346 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,520 ..tell the sheriff's department that he had been molested. 347 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,040 It just didn't come across that way to me. 348 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,080 He absolutely looked believable. 349 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,360 - Michael's innocent! - Michael's innocent! 350 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,840 After 14 weeks of often lurid testimony, 351 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,600 Michael Jackson's trial is now entering its most crucial phase. 352 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,400 In Santa Maria, California, tonight, it's all in the hands of the jury. 353 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,160 Eight women, four men on the Michael Jackson jury 354 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,880 will decide whether or not he is guilty of child molestation. 355 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,440 I was worried about the jury. 356 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,000 I had complete faith in everything Gavin was saying. 357 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,240 And I... There was never a question in my mind 358 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,640 as to the honesty or accuracy of his statements. 359 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,320 Never. 360 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:17,080 But this was an international superstar, 361 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,720 one of the most powerful men in the world. 362 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,880 And that changes the equation. 363 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,960 {\an8}No matter what humanitarian actions, 364 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,120 {\an8}no matter what joy and entertainment he brought to the world, 365 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,240 if Michael was harming children, he was a monster. 366 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,320 But he was not a monster. He didn't do any of those things. 367 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,480 {\an5}There are people here from more than 28 countries reporting on the trial. 368 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,920 Hotel rooms are booked within a 40 mile radius. 369 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,640 Special fences and security have been brought in 370 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,560 and the fan contingent continues to grow as well. 371 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,720 The fan presence was there from beginning to end 372 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,960 and they were vociferous. 373 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,480 Those are the hardcore Michael Jackson fans from around the world. 374 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,200 Innocent! 375 00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,960 Innocent! 376 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,400 Michael had encouraged his family and by extension his fans 377 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,360 to wear white, saying that he was innocent. 378 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,080 But I thought at the very least it's going to be a hung jury, 379 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,200 but they'll probably get a conviction. 380 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,480 He could face nearly 20 years in prison. 381 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,920 If the jury comes back guilty, Jackson will be off 382 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,640 to Corcoran State Prisons Protective Housing Unit, 383 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,200 home to, among others, convicted murderer Charles Manson. 384 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,480 Michael was feeling... 385 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,920 ..frightened. 386 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,240 You're the biggest star in the world. 387 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,760 You... 388 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,720 You have magic that nobody else has. 389 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,440 And you are scared to death. 390 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,240 Your life is coming to an end. 391 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,080 And I said to him, I said, 392 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:48,040 "Michael, we're going to win. Do you understand? 393 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,960 "We're going to win." 394 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,160 He says, Brian, "I'm so scared. I don't think so." 395 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,240 Transmission, can you hear me? Can anyone hear me? 396 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,560 Edgar, they're on the... Come with me. It's OK. 397 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,080 There is breaking news that the jury in Santa Maria, California, 398 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,440 has sent word that it has reached a verdict. 399 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,360 They announced that they had a verdict 400 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,760 and it would be presented in the courtroom in two hours. 401 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,720 He drove up the freeway from Neverland Ranch 402 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,680 and the convoy of cars and fans behind him 403 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320 was unbelievable. 404 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:34,280 His motorcade, as you see from this helicopter shot live, 405 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,520 left his so-called Neverland Ranch within the past 30 minutes 406 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,520 and is winding its way... 407 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,160 In the car, you had Michael in the middle 408 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,040 and La Toya on the right. 409 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,200 And she prayed with him. 410 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,320 "Dear Lord, take care of Your child, Michael Jackson." 411 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,440 "He is Your servant, Lord. 412 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,760 "He does Your bidding." 413 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,040 "Protect him. Defend him." 414 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,080 And Michael is stoic. 415 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:07,000 He doesn't say a word. 416 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,640 Outside the courtroom was a zoo. 417 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,800 I'd never seen anything like that before. 418 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,480 Gavin was not there. It felt like too much to take on. 419 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,720 If he's found guilty, it'll be a journey 420 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,440 not back to Neverland, but straight to prison. 421 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,600 We're in a waiting game now. 422 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,880 By the way, we should point out that the local police department 423 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,880 has dispatched a number of officers trained to watch 424 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,320 for potential suicidal behaviour on the part of some of these fans. 425 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,800 - Brian, I'm told... - We can hear our producer. 426 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,560 He is opening each ballot one at a time. 427 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,960 I'm told the room is very silent. 428 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,920 - But some of them... - I'm sorry, we have to interrupt you 429 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,600 because we're beginning to hear a little bit of audio 430 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,640 coming from the courtroom. 431 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,480 The microphone's on. 432 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,240 Superior Court of the State of California, count one verdict. 433 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,600 We, the jury, in the above entitled case, find the defendant not guilty. 434 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,440 {\an1}CHEERING 435 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,520 Count two verdict, not guilty. 436 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,320 Not guilty! 437 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,880 Count three verdict, 438 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,240 not guilty of a lewd act upon a minor child. 439 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,720 He's vindicated! He's vindicated! 440 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,200 The clerk read it - Not guilty. Not guilty. 441 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,960 Not guilty. Not guilty. Not guilty. Not guilty. 442 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,080 Not guilty on all ten counts. 443 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,640 I always believed him! 444 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,000 {\an5}I would not have come here if I thought Michael Jackson was guilty of these crimes! 445 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,560 I believed in him and I fought for him! 446 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,200 Michael Jackson is now free. 447 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,200 This case is over. 448 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,640 This is an all out vindication 449 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,480 for Michael Jackson and his supporters. 450 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,760 Michael got up... 451 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,600 ..everyone congratulated everyone... 452 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,960 ..didn't say a word, turned around, and he walked out. 453 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,480 There he is. 454 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,920 The first look at Michael Jackson 455 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,000 after his acquittal on all ten counts. 456 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,200 Clearly, this jury did not buy 457 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,280 that these people were telling the truth. 458 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,520 There's no doubt about it. 459 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,960 The defence said this family, this mother, 460 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,080 wanted to ride the gravy train. 461 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,240 Jurors realised that, you know, 462 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,880 in the celebrity land of Michael Jackson, 463 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,240 people do get accused of things that they haven't done. 464 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,000 Your reaction to the news, Stacey? 465 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,320 Well, Brian, I'm stunned. 466 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,640 {\an5}I really thought that there was going to be a couple of convictions there. 467 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,720 He's dodged a bullet. 468 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,880 I truly felt that Michael Jackson was a child molester. 469 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,400 I felt that then and I haven't changed my mind now. 470 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,040 But the problem was proving it. 471 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,080 And the jury had a hard time believing the Arvizos. 472 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,160 We got Gavin on the phone. 473 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,520 And Gavin, poor Gavin... 474 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,840 I just remember that voice. 475 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,160 "Why didn't they believe me? 476 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,520 "Why didn't they believe me?" 477 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,720 It was over. 478 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,520 We would talk about Michael going through the fire... 479 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,840 ..or the book of Daniel. 480 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,800 And I said, "Michael, you are being tested by fire. Michael." 481 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,960 As it turns out... 482 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,720 ..this trial hurt him. 483 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,640 It hurt him badly. 484 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,480 He never went back to Neverland. 485 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,840 It was spoilt. It was ruined. It was defiled. 486 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,640 It was no longer the place of dreams. 487 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,560 So I think it was three days after the verdict, 488 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,720 Michael got in his limousine to LAX... 489 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,440 ..to Bahrain. 490 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,200 Michael Jackson turned up at a Bahrain shopping mall, 491 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,240 hiding his face behind a veil and wearing a black robe 492 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,080 traditionally worn by Middle Eastern women. 493 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,640 He became what even his family described as a vagabond. 494 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,760 {\an8}Michael and his kids would go from place to place, 495 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,640 {\an8}anywhere he could find a home. 496 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,480 He was lost. Michael was lost. 497 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,040 {\an8}Last night, his crown was looking distinctly tarnished. 498 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,360 {\an8}Amid the adulation, the clear sound of booing. 499 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,280 Michael hated being hated. 500 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,360 He disliked being disliked. 501 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,560 He took it very personally. 502 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,080 He was very fragile in that regard. He was used to being loved. 503 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,960 But at that time, he really was... 504 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,520 ..very unhappy at how hated he felt. 505 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,960 {\an8}Michael Jackson finally came back to Las Vegas. 506 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,400 But he was... 507 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,360 ..a broken man. 508 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,360 There were tremendous financial problems. 509 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,800 And also, it's believed that his drug problems continued to mount. 510 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,000 And there were terrible reports I got 511 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,280 that Michael was using medications. 512 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,520 And the family staged an intervention. 513 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,840 "No, no, no, I got this under control. 514 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,840 "I'm not addicted. I'm not." 515 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,960 Whatever, Michael. I tried. I tried, too. 516 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,920 After the trial, Gavin was a different person. 517 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,240 He was very different. He was subdued. 518 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,000 I would take him out driving. 519 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,000 We would just kind of... 520 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,560 ..process everything that had gone on. 521 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,080 It just was tough. Things were tough. 522 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,880 They had all changed their names to go back to school. 523 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,560 But, erm, some of the Michael Jackson fans 524 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,840 had discovered their aliases and sort of outed them on Myspace. 525 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,520 He became extremely depressed. 526 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,000 It was very, very difficult for him to picture a life for himself. 527 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,440 Michael believed that if he could perform again, 528 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,760 that he would gain strength from his fans. 529 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,600 {\an1}CHEERING 530 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,160 Because his livelihood and his life was the stage. 531 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,640 I love you. 532 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,480 {\an1}CHEERING 533 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,960 I really do. You have to know that I love you so much. 534 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,240 Michael suddenly agrees to do 50 concerts. 535 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,040 See you in July! 536 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,000 {\an1}CHEERING 537 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,680 50! 538 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,440 Michael couldn't get out of bed in the morning. 539 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,400 He was taking all this crap and all these drugs. 540 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,000 And 50! 541 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,040 Who ever got him to agree to that? 542 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,400 The only thing that was going to do was put so much pressure on him 543 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,680 that he would up the drug intake. 544 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,440 We were concerned that the phones were being disconnected. 545 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,520 Mrs Jackson had indicated at one point 546 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,320 she hadn't spoken to him in 12 weeks. 547 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,080 {\an8}Every time she tried calling, the line was disconnected. 548 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,320 {\an8}Well, that's the same thing that was happening to us. 549 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,040 But I don't think anybody really thought 550 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,680 it was anything very sinister going on. 551 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,400 When I heard that, I was shocked. 552 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,960 I'm like, that's pure bullshit. 553 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,840 Somebody took a recording and put it on slow motion. 554 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,040 That didn't even sound right. 555 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,000 I went... 556 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,400 I went to the emergency room. 557 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,320 And inside the emergency room was the family. 558 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,320 I saw them. I saw Mrs Jackson, I saw Mr Jackson. 559 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,920 And I was looking through the window... 560 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,320 ..and in the background they were pumping somebody's chest. 561 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,920 I said, "Oh, my. Oh, my." 562 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,160 Michael Jackson is dead at the age of 50. 563 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,760 What I felt was absolute infernal... 564 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,280 ..rage. 565 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,720 You stupid, stupid man. 566 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,520 Michael! Michael! What have you done? 567 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,800 You've orphaned your children. 568 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,920 I think it took a few hours for the rage to wear off. 569 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,080 And then terrible grief set in. 570 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,480 Michael's favourite word was 'innocence' 571 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,840 because Michael was robbed of that childhood innocence. 572 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,760 He said to me, "I never had innocence. 573 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,720 "My life has been a constant effort to reclaim lost innocence, 574 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,040 "like a return to Eden, a return to paradise." 575 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,600 There is new global backlash tonight 576 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,560 following the bombshell documentary Leaving Neverland. 577 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,760 The accusations made by Wade Robson, who is now 36, 578 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,800 and James Safechuck, now 41, are quite similar. 579 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,680 Both were befriended by Jackson when they were young boys 580 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,240 and both were brought to his Neverland Ranch, 581 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,480 where they claim the abuse began. 582 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,120 So what are you alleging that he actually did? 583 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,320 He sexually abused me from seven years old until 14. 584 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,840 I've lived in silence and denial for 22 years 585 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,440 and I can't spend another moment in that. 586 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,240 I was appalled. 587 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,000 I was shocked. 588 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,280 Wade Robson told the jury under penalty of perjury, 589 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,200 "It didn't happen." 590 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,520 And then he does this film and says, "Oh, yeah, it happened." 591 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,880 Well, the two don't jive. 592 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,440 It tells me that it's false. 593 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,400 I have never seen the documentary, 594 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,480 but I think these are cases of people coming out 595 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,000 and saying horrible things long after anything is provable 596 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,720 when there's a lot of money at stake. 597 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,680 The Michael Jackson I knew 598 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,560 was a really, really sweet, kind hearted person. 599 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,760 I don't know why I get so protective. 600 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,600 It doesn't make any sense. Do you think he's innocent? 601 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,400 After everything you've seen, 602 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,080 do you still think he's possibly innocent? 603 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,000 The world will say what it will say 604 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,520 and perhaps only God knows the truth. 605 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,400 Could I believe... 606 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,560 ..that he was a paedophile? 607 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,440 Absolutely, categorically not. 608 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,840 But how do you know? 609 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,360 - How do I know that he wasn't a paedophile? - Yes. 610 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,200 Oh, I don't know. 611 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,680 I can only say, based on all the evidence, 612 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:31,360 all the trials and my personal knowledge of him, 613 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,360 he was absolutely incapable of harming a child. 614 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,960 {\an8}I remember him putting... 615 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,160 {\an8}..my hands on his head when he was down there. 616 00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:49,240 {\an8}I'll never forget the... 617 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,440 {\an8}..the feeling of his hair. 618 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,200 The way they painted the picture 619 00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:01,280 of inappropriate behaviour, sexual molestation, it moved me. 620 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,560 I just thought, oh, my gosh. 621 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,240 If you saw that documentary, 622 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,640 you have to have some compassion for Wade and James. 623 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,800 {\an8}I think I was just like kind of wincing 624 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,080 {\an8}and I was asking him not to do it, 625 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,080 {\an8}but he did it and he said, "Oh, you'll like it." 626 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,960 It was so powerful. So powerful. 627 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,640 I was as big as Michael Jackson fan as anyone. 628 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,440 But that documentary showed how this man... 629 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,880 ..manipulated not just those boys... 630 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,040 ..not just their family... 631 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,280 ..Michael manipulated the entire world. 632 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,600 I believe that the outcome could have been different 633 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,600 if Jimmy Safechuck and Wade Robson 634 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,440 had been able to talk about what had happened. 635 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,440 But I don't blame them. 636 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,320 I'm not angry. 637 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,240 I'm maybe a little frustrated, but I'm really not angry. 638 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,760 I'm glad that they have come forward now. 639 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,360 I think it's helpful. It's helpful for Gavin. 640 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,920 I think it's helpful for the rest of the country 641 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,520 to understand what actually happened. 642 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,680 A lot of folks did not want to believe Gavin. 643 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,760 They wanted to believe their hero, their idol. 644 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,960 We're talking about the King of Pop. 645 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,280 And we don't want to... 646 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,360 ..believe that such a phenomenal talent is dangerous. 647 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,840 We just don't want those two things in the same place. 648 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,960 It's very difficult. 649 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,240 I'll be the first one to tell you because... 650 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:54,800 ..I love his music, I love what he created. 651 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,440 But Gavin, his story has never shifted. 652 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:04,720 And we would know by now if the reason they had done this was money. 653 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,080 There's been no exchange of money in regards to any of this 654 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,320 for the Arvizo family. 655 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:16,720 So maybe we need to ask ourselves, is that body of work worth.... 656 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:24,520 ..the price of James Wade, Gavin... 657 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,200 Is that a fair price? 658 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,440 Gavin is doing extraordinarily well. 659 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,200 I'm just... I'm magnificently proud of him. 660 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,320 But he's fought for it. 661 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,440 He's fought hard. 662 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,040 Yeah, it's hard to talk about. 663 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:34,240 Subtitles by Red Bee Media 53953

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