Original subtitles

Welcome to the diet zone.

Losing weight is really different than being fat.

He thought it was simple, but it's not.

I have to lose 200 pounds plus sort of thing.

It's like losing another, I am losing another individual.

So it's a long chore.

Somebody who loses 20 pounds feels that they have made a great accomplishment. I

lose 20 pounds when I say, only 180 left.

Gosh, I'll be there in no time.

Okay, I have something to say.

I've been guilty of this offense for years.

I just want to say that from now on, wait, wait, don't

go. I am not going to eat beef anymore.

Wait, I promise.

Just listen to me. It's the promise.

Hey!

I'm a fat man, and I hate myself for it.

I'm 40 years old, and I weigh 400 pounds.

And I can't really remember the last time I was happy.

I want to change, and dieting is the only way I know how.

What's going on, Rick? I'd like to have a look inside your eye.

Inside my eye? Yeah, inside your eye. Just take a clap for me.

Okay.

How high is it?

160 on 112.

Wow. Yeah, just look straight ahead.

That's a... pretty high degree of blood pressure there and has to be watched

closely. I recommend also that, you know, a cardiogram be done, at least on

record, make sure that everything's okay there in that regard, because that's a

pretty big stress on your heart.

Okay, just relax, Rick.

Just turn this way slightly.

Bring your arm behind your back for me so I can get your scapula to stick out a

bit here.

Great.

Arm relaxed.

I can't relax my arm.

You're pinching the fat in my back.

I know. I tell people to relax and then I pinch them.

Best you can. This is not a good way to gain trust.

I hope you don't mind me hugging you.

We're getting so close.

I said I had to get to know you over this test.

You never know, I'll get to like this.

Can we do the thing with the tape again?

I know how my weight looks to other people.

It's a turn -off.

I just can't connect.

I've been on some form of diet since I was 12.

There have been thousands of different pills and powders since then, and even a

few liquid diets.

I started out, I think, with amphetamines when I was really young

doctor at that time, I guess the thinking was a speedy metabolism would

trick.

You want to put me in the hospital?

You want to operate on me? Whatever anyone can do to get this weight off.

You know, I say, just do it.

Give me the ticket that says, hey, you can now go anywhere you want to go and

whatever you want and there would be no stigma attached.

If I could say, you know, meet God and say, I'll give you three years of my

life. Just make me thin.

I do it.

I wouldn't be lying if I said I was lonely for a good part of my life.

I can't hide being fat, and there are days when I stay in my apartment.

I don't want to talk to anybody.

I don't want to see anybody.

It's like my life is on hold until I lose this weight.

But it hasn't always been this way.

As a kid, I grew up in a very loving family.

I grew up in an ethnic neighborhood where food was a part of our identity.

I remember my dad coming home from the railroad yards with my uncle, and they

would stop at the bakery and pick up fresh pumpernickel and rye bread and

hot kubusak.

My mom would have prepared holupchi and puttahead and fried sauerkraut. Our

house was just filled with the smells of good food.

For my brother Len and I, those were some of the best memories of our

You were, what, nine years older than me, right?

And I don't recall... Were you a fat kid? I don't remember if you were fat.

Yeah, no, I was fat.

Yeah?

When did you... When I discovered girls, that's when I lost weight.

Were you being teased and harassed as a kid?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I would get bugged about your weight. Yeah.

Well, we take all our frustrations out on food.

When I'm happy, I eat. When I'm sad, I eat.

Y 'all, you get something to eat? Yeah, what do you want, mate?

It's Leonard. He enculturated us to hold dead fish.

What do you do? What's the key to family lifeline? Bring fish home and hold the

fish in the living room.

Oh, God, there's four fish sitting there.

Here's Rick.

Cool dude.

Look at that.

Cigarette, fish, jig.

Like a real man, right?

My being fat was really a reflection of my parents' love for me.

When I went to school, I got a real different message.

Suddenly, I was being called names like Fatso and Fat Pig.

I learned then that being fat was connected with everything negative, and

meant that you were stupid and you were lazy and didn't have any self -control,

and it just resulted in a lot of teasing.

So I guess to cope, I played the clown, and that way I seemed to somehow be able

to control the laughter.

There was a very weird woman that lived next to us when I was a young kid.

I can't remember. The guy belonged to the hall, but his wife was very strange.

remember once, shall we just say... Come on, three cookies.

Oh, yeah, I don't remember the name. I went in her house once, and she started

this thing.

Do you know about death?

I was young, I remember.

She gave me, I'll tell you about it. There's a string inside your body, and

stretches every day, and then it goes...

And I remember, like, oh, you know, I didn't want to move. You know, because

you're a kid, you know.

Yeah, but you found the truth, right?

Yeah, well, there's a rope inside me.

I wonder if I'm eating. I'm probably scared to death.

My string's going to snap.

I got married very young, and in my attempt to lose weight, I lost my

But it did give me the gift of my daughter, Carrie.

She's the one steady relationship in my life.

All right, don't put your ass out too much. You look like Elvis.

I mean,

we're all sexual people.

I don't feel that I'm not sexual.

I think I have maybe

put those feelings or desires

in a back room because I often

feel it's a futile effort on my part.

I know I would enjoy being involved in a...

intimate relationship with a woman.

Whether that's going to happen or not, I don't know.

I think my chances of that happening when I'm more physically appealing will

certainly heighten, but I don't think it's a possibility at this time.

We've got you up into your training zone now, according to the exercise

intensity guide.

How's it feel, okay?

Okay,

we're going to be bringing your heart rate up to around 153 beats per minute.

don't want to take it higher than that.

You should be able to feel when you're working hard enough. And when you're in

sweat, And your respiration's getting a little faster.

And your legs are feeling it. You know you're working hard enough.

Legs going to be able to hold out. Rick, you're doing great.

Three minutes to go.

Some of the most important people in my life right now, I'd have to say, are the

abused kids that I work with.

And music has helped me to make a connection with it.

There's a magic about music that seems to work for kids.

Kids like Eric.

I was speaking to your mom the other day.

My real? Yeah, your real mom.

And I guess there's a couple of things I have to tell you.

Would you be...

Upset if your dad moved away from you, ma 'am?

Yes, really upset.

Why?

Because he'll keep on playing that game over and over again.

Which game is that?

Coming back and leaving, coming back and leaving, coming back and leaving.

That's a pretty hurtful thing, eh? You know, your dad, I think, has moved out

again and has gone, I think he's gone back to Hamilton.

Okay?

So, I think you were a little worried about when he was staying at your mom's

place, were you? What were you worried about?

My dad beating up my mother again.

Okay, well, you know, I phoned your mom and I let her know that if anything ever

happened, or if she even thought anything was going to happen, that she

call me, okay?

What I'm doing is I'm trying to do an audio tape.

for Eric to begin to alleviate some of his fears.

So to sort of have him psychologically riveted to this tape

and to use terms and phrases and, you know, stay within what is his sort of

familiar network.

Okay, what matches the word cool?

Awesome. Awesome.

And what is awesome? What kinds of things would be awesome?

Heavy metal. Heavy metal is what? Awesome?

Yeah? Do you know, like, who's your heavy metal group?

Let me guess.

I like Poison.

Poison? Mm -hmm. What kind of stuff do they sing?

Number One Bad Boy and Look What The Cat Dragged In. That's a song I have.

Yeah? Tape.

And it's really awesome.

Yeah? Is it, like, really awesome?

Mm -hmm.

Like, not just really awesome.

Totally awesome.

Oh, wow. Well, that's powerful.

The other thing is that I'm going to be doing a song for you.

Do you want it to be heavy?

Really heavy.

Like heavy metal?

Totally heavy.

Totally heavy? No. Like loud guitars?

Mm -hmm.

Electric guitar all the time. Mm -hmm. And drums.

So you want electric guitar.

I better mark that down.

Okay.

Okay, Eric.

Want electric guitar?

Okay. You want drums?

Drums. Okay.

How about some bass guitar?

Bass guitar?

I was walking down the street the other day and I saw Sally.

You know, she run a truck up on a rock.

I said, Sally, honey, what are you doing up there?

She said, I just gonna sit down here.

I must be Sally.

Yeah.

Mama, you got this.

Because you keep on running around.

You know this man's going to play the guitar.

Go, Chuck.

Okay, let's go.

Lift it.

These tables are not made for guys like me to do stuff on.

I never knew how you're supposed to breathe.

I think I'm doing it backwards.

Hold on to push.

Oh, your face is so ugly, I don't want to just...

This is cruel and unusual punishment.

Yeah, it's no picnic for me. My arms are burning.

That's what's supposed to happen, right?

I could do this by the stove and get the same effect.

well balanced yes right i think you're very well balanced okay we've got your

weight 300 so i'm 370 pounds just

another 220 pounds and i'll be prime

weight

It's taken me six months and I've lost 30 pounds.

And that's a lot when I think about it, but I'd kind of hoped I'd feel

different, that I'd feel better about myself.

And I don't.

People ask me, you know, how am I doing?

And it just seems that all they're concerned about is my weight.

How's the diet going? And, hey, how many pounds have you lost?

Nobody seems to want to know how I'm feeling.

Well, I'm losing weight, all right, but I'm not happy.

What types of things do you attribute to their success?

Determination. Right now, the biggest albatross around your neck is your

The best way to make yourself feel better about yourself is to achieve some

positive endpoints. That is to lose weight, so that your blood pressure

improves, so that you'll look better, so that you can come off, if you have

blood sugar abnormalities, so that you get better, so you feel better about

yourself, so you've got mastery.

Say, I can control this. I really can.

The people who succeed are determined.

They're fed up. They're not going to take it anymore.

They are willing to change their lives around entirely.

I'm on a dime. Do a 180.

And those are the people who are successful.

I have tried to muster an energy about it, and this time I'm going to do it.

And I've given myself all the reasons for it, and yet I have fallen short. So

you're saying that I wasn't ready?

No, what I'm saying is, or my advice to you would be, is try not to muster the

energy. My advice would be, just do it.

Don't think about it. Just do it.

I can't do this anymore.

And I'm tired of believing that I can.

I try, and I'm told that I don't try hard enough, or I'm trying too hard.

And in the end, I'm hating myself even more.

I feel like I'm trapped in my own body, and there's no way out for me.

There's nowhere to go.

Publicly, I'm okay, but I just seem to have these very dark times that are very

depressing.

I feel like I'm on parole all the time, or that I've done something wrong, and I

really haven't, you know.

It's affecting me, you know, that's all I can say. I try and do these things,

and I go to sleep at night, or I stay at home at night, and I review.

certain things and i just i just don't feel i'm not a very happy person at this

point the funny thing is it really doesn't hurt anybody you know my being

overweight has no effect on you whatsoever you know like you don't catch

disease nobody gets hurt you know i don't do any damage to anybody you know

everybody feels so free to want to

contribute to this sickness or something.

Almost as if a piece of society's scenery isn't looking right.

So they want to... That's not a bad term, yeah.

They want to shape you up so that you fit into the image.

You want to be what these folks want you to be, or

you want to be an image...

that you want you to be. Now, even as I ask you that in this session here, I'm

not sure that you give me a clear image of who it is that you want to be. In

fact, I am sure that I haven't heard from you.

How you want to look, how you want to be, what would make you feel ideally

comfortable with you?

I don't know.

You know, I don't know who I am.

I really think that that's a part of me that's really... I've

never really seen myself.

I want a cup.

What kind of cup?

Give me a cappuccino.

You want chocolate?

Yeah, but the diet chocolate.

Diet chocolate?

Oh, the bean sticker's on.

Right, thank you.

It's on my hand.

It's now.

It's a better check.

Credit's bad.

You're on the blacklist now.

Look at this.

Old size, 38.

Neutralized, 33. They're saying that 38 size waist is like gross or it needs to

be changed and you should get into this 33. I would do cartwheels if I had a 38

inch waist.

It's like now I'm looking at what the media is saying in many ways and it's

what I want to become.

I've always been good at helping other people get their lives together.

But now I realize, and maybe for the first time, that I've got to do this for

myself.

Because each chorus is going to be a little bit different.

Basically just telling them the same message in a number of different ways

it's up to you. Oh, yeah, it's up to you. Right.

You can choose to live in fear and darkness, but is there really something

want to do?

Now it's up to you.

Now it's up to you and what you want to do is really left to how you want to

say. Okay.

You want to take it from the top of that second verse then?

Okay, I'll take it from the top of the chorus. Yeah, okay.

Here we go.

And the people in the north, they are the one.

Now you're fast and you are lean. You can run like a machine just like you are

powered by the sun.

But it's up to you.

Yes, it's up to you.

You're nobody's fool and I know that you can really feel the truth.

It's up to you.

Take your power, Eric.

Take it now.

Now the very first time that I met you, Eric, it became very clear to me.

You are the boy and you have the power. The time had come to set your mind free.

Free from the fears that you believed in for years. The fears that kept you in

the shadows of the dark.

Now, Eric, hear what I say, because there's a choice to be made, which is

to set you and fear so far apart.

And it's up to you.

Yes, it's up to you.

You're going to come to feel the darkness. Is that something that you

want to do?

Well, you see, a man belongs to you, and what you choose to make or do is really

left to how and what you want to think.

Could I speak to Dr.

Mo Lerner, please?

Yes.

Dr. Lerner.

Hi, my name is Rick Zakowicz.

This is sort of a strange request, but I saw you when I was in Seven Oaks

Hospital a little while ago.

How do I start saying this? I'm starting a support group or a group for men that

are, I don't know, obese, fat, whatever term you're okay with. I'm trying to get

a group together with people who have similar kinds of concerns, and it seems

that you're in my league or I'm in your league, and I was wondering if you'd be

interested in something like that.

How you doing?

I'm Dr. Lerner.

Hi.

Did you hurt yourself?

Yeah, I did.

Okay, come on, we'll fix up your finger for you.

Did this happen at work?

Yes, it did.

Okay.

So you've never had stitches before?

No. Okay, it's not a big deal. It really isn't.

Just a little bit of stinging at first.

So you like the kind of work you do?

Oh, it's not bad.

What would you rather be doing?

I see the finger.

I'm just going to put a little bit of freezing here and here on either side of

your finger, okay? Okay.

I'll just pinch a little bit first.

What would you rather be doing?

I don't know.

Not sure?

Not sure.

Okay, here comes that little bit of a poke.

There, it feels like a little balloon there on that side. You did good. I'm

going to do the other side now.

Turn your hand over this way a bit.

That's good.

You did good. You thought you were going to scream, didn't you? I thought so,

yeah. Well, it's not as bad as that.

The people I work with every day, some of them have despised me from the day

they met me just because of my size, based on nothing else.

And I still feel that.

There's no person like me alive that wouldn't want to live a wonderful

life with...

Neat relationships and children and laughing and being physically active. I

used to, until 100 pounds ago, I loved volleyball and swimming. I even played

tennis.

I'm afraid.

I'm afraid of the day that I won't be able to walk anymore.

I do this to fill up some way to take care of me.

Because I've seen it in other obese people.

And that's why I put up with this nonsense.

People who were nasty and cruel.

And that's why I feel so deeply for people in similar situations.

They don't have the opportunities I've had.

And they envy me. And they think it's so wonderful you're on the radio and

you're a doctor.

Look at the accomplishment.

It's no accomplishment.

It's not living.

You know, we can tolerate a lot, okay? I think what happens is we have a hard

time with rejection.

And I mean, you tolerate to a certain degree, but that's really the key.

We're rejected.

We're not, you know, this group that, I mean, right now, this group is you and

me. Me and you, though.

And that's it. And hopefully we can reach the other people that are out

not because I have this great, you know.

cape that I want to wear and be somebody's savior, but I think there is

within us.

And if we can reach out and bring some of us there that have been isolated, you

know, then there's an enormous amount of power.

There's definitely strength in that and there's so much more to share, but

beyond that, even, there is this need we needed and this, you know, we love to

be loved, but we hate to be hated.

The sensitivity, you just mentioned that, and it's so important that we

this. When you're a kid, you're humiliated, you're the fat guy, you're

though, you're picked last on the team, you're put in goal so that your girth

can stop the shot.

And that is the breeding ground. And you work with children.

The breeding ground is your sensitivity gets higher, gets heightened. You're

more sensitive to these insults, not less sensitive, you're not desensitized,

but you're self -esteem.

It goes down even further.

It gets worse and worse as years go by. And people think fat people are used to

this. They're being the jolly fat. No, you don't mind making fun.

I can't take it anymore.

That's what's happening with me. I see. So it's not that I'm going to be

psychotic and kill somebody, but I found myself becoming a more and more

isolated person.

And I don't want to do that. I want to go out. I want to connect. And I don't

want to get those jabs and those stabs.

Let me ask you a question.

You and I are sitting talking here now. Do you not feel somewhat of a relief

just the fact that we're sharing these things? Oh, of course. Don't you feel

like I have for years that you feel better by virtue of the fact that you're

alone?

There is this conference.

It's in Virginia. I'm going to be participating there.

It might be something that you might be interested in. I think that you'd meet a

lot of interesting people in a different angle.

First, I have to say that as a fat woman, I find it really terrifying to be

room of therapists because some of my worst memories of my childhood and my

adolescence were you people, therapists and dieticians. So I've been very

emotional today.

And part of the emotion is, where the hell were you 20 and 30 years ago when I

was begging people to listen to me about this?

And I'm real glad you're here now.

Around the family issues on a personal level, the way that I find out in my

family was rage.

I find rage very effective.

And I encourage a lot of people to express it.

The worst that can happen is your family doesn't talk to you again, and you

don't like them anyway, probably.

That will solve the problem for a while.

And then you can come back later and deal with it. I told my family, this is

deal. I'm coming to Thanksgiving dinner.

The first person who said anything about my size looks at me funny. I'm slamming

the chair on the table, and I'm leaving. And I'm never coming back.

And that's the last I ever heard any disparaging remarks.

Because I came with a real angry look, and I really meant it.

And it was the most freeing experience I ever had.

And I think that we don't encourage enough rage in fat people.

I mean, when we look at the success and failure rates of dieting, there

shouldn't be an unbroken window left in any diet clinic.

In 69, it was just considered a complete oddity. I mean,

people who would defend the rights of, let's say, blacks.

or women, or the elderly, or the disabled, would say, yeah, but hey, fat

exception. You can do something about that.

All you need is a little willpower.

You're out of control.

All these kinds of stereotypes that we know today really don't apply to most

people.

I say we know.

I mean, the people who study it know, unfortunately.

The public still believes the stereotype that fat people are out of control and

they're weak -willed and poorly disciplined.

And if we didn't want to be fat, we should do something about it, is that

Well, sure.

The point is, if you could do something about it, most fat people would have

done something about it successfully long ago. The truth is that, you know,

people in this country have been dieting for... In fact, in North America, have

been dieting for...

decades, and, you know, they're larger than ever. The average weights are going

up.

A young woman who was the younger sister of a friend, and this young woman was a

senior in high school, and was very lovely, and looked much like Linda

Wonder Woman, but very, very large.

And so I sat down here and said, well, you know, I'm ignorant.

I don't know what your experience is like, so help me understand. I want to

know.

What's like being fat? I have no idea what that even means and she said, you

know sure and I said to her what is What is your worst experience? What is the

thing that bothers you the most about being fat?

And she immediately replied which is not the title of a book When people tell me

I have a pretty face Mm -hmm, but she didn't stop there that would have caught

my attention because I immediately realized my god I could have said that

because she actually did have a beautiful face But the part that chilled

he continued and said, and when they say that, I want to mutilate my face. And

there was such pain and honesty and seriousness, it actually blew me away.

realized, my God, I am pretty ignorant here. And I need to learn about this.

the more I learn, the more pain stories like Danny's and hundreds of stories

from people who have been embarrassed and shamed, it gets you just really

I'm still real uncomfortable being around.

Groups of people. I'm always wondering what they're thinking.

I'm always thinking they're looking at me.

They are?

Yeah, I know.

So I'm not crazy after all.

Well, we're different.

We look different.

You started to do something about your situation when you were, what, about 565

pounds? And then what was the turning point for you?

I'm not really sure.

I guess I got to thinking because I knew I was going to die.

I just got to thinking there's too much that I want to live for. There's too

much I ain't done yet.

That's helped me a lot.

I mean, I'm more comfortable now than I was, but I still am very uncomfortable,

and I hate myself for that.

My last question, I think, would be, a society always has some sort of a beauty

ideal. There is, you know, always, always, has always been. Now,

our beauty ideal has been thin for a long, long time already.

What has to happen that that will change?

Fashion now happens to be a thin body. It's as unrealistic as wanting the wasp

shape of my grandmother's day or the tiny feet of the Chinese woman.

It's biologically unrealistic.

Similarly with sexism, just as in racism, women finally began to say, hey,

a minute, we don't have to put up with this nonsense any longer, these double

standards, and we're going to try to get into the power structure that is now

male dominated.

You've seen this kind of movement starting that women are saying, wait a

I mean, why do I have to starve myself all the time?

I'm not going to accept that anymore. I see this as the last ism.

We've seen the evils of racism, we've seen the evils of sexism, and now we're

seeing the evils of looksism, and we're saying it's an evil. You don't

mistreat a person, discriminate against a person, make a person's life

miserable because of his or her looks.

I finally just said, listen, I've got to live in the body that I've got.

Maybe I'll lose weight, but most likely I'll never be 110 pounds.

And something major changed in me when I came to that conclusion.

It was really, I won't put off living anymore.

You know, I know recently I saw again one of these Nutrisystem commercials, I

think, and the woman is saying, whining about, oh, I haven't worn this bathing

suit in 20 years, you know, and I haven't gone to the beach. And I'm

you poor sucker, look what you've missed all these years. You've denied yourself

this pleasure.

Well, conditioned, right? How we've been conditioned.

I think the more that there is a fat subculture created. Yeah.

that we have our own identity, the more we can't be oppressed.

I mean, that there's an identity there.

And from that, that goes into mainstream culture, that you can't mess with me

anymore. You can't mess with me.

From what I gather, your work is working with photos, working with image,

working with color, working with video, which is an area that...

It just sort of arouses me. Have you shot any fat males? Not to date. Not to

date. You know, again, this was an issue of who do I know the best.

So I was photographing just women.

And people would ask me questions. Well, who are these women and why are they

like they are?

And these are beautiful pictures. And, gee, I never thought about fat women

way. And, wow, these are really artistic and these women are sexy. And I never

thought about that either. And, you know, it's like all of a sudden people's

minds were kind of revolving in new directions.

My feeling has been that, you know, if I change the mind of one person that

I've...

won the battle, and I've changed more than one mind.

I'm just saying, here they are, they accept themselves, we move on from here.

Maybe we can do some work together.

Maybe we can do some work together. That would be interesting.

It's real important to surround yourself with sad people also.

I believe that. I mean, when I 20 years ago. I found one bad guy.

Stick with him.

Leave your wife. Come with me. Well, you know, you find little enclaves here and

there. And you take it and you just breathe in deeply.

And then you hold your air and you can go out into the disgusting thin world,

you know.

It's important to even be around people.

And you get all dressed up who can say you really look nice. And you don't hear

in the back of your mind for an incredibly fat woman.

You know, it's just you look nice.

That's really important.

I think for men it's a very underdeveloped area, and you're probably

a pioneer.

And that's real hard. Believe me, I know.

It's real hard, and you have to be real strong.

What can I expect?

Nothing? Oh, no. You can expect it to first have some outpouring and then have

it level off and then get real slow, and then you have to keep going out,

dragging out the net and trying to pull people in.

And you will learn to find ways to emotionally support yourself that you

thought you'd find.

You'll learn to take hope out of the smallest little thing.

And you'll become very strong.

You'll be amazed. You know, it's funny. I was thinking about my life the other

day, and I think, oh, I could have been a doctor. I could have been all these

things if it wasn't for fat oppression.

But I wouldn't have been a compassionate person.

I would have, to be someone to whom things come easy, you know,

I think I would have missed a lot.

I think that we're so much better than most of the world.

And it's so hard for me when I see people who don't know that.

who don't know how incredibly special we are, and how that strength has

bonded us together and has really made us

transcendent.

And it's a wonderful experience to do it, and I encourage you and I support

And it will be very lonely, very lonely.

When I was 25, I'd been in the house for weeks.

I never could go out.

I remember one day I got all dressed up to go out, and I was going to a concert,

and I felt good for the first time in months. I actually thought I looked

And I walked a few steps out of my apartment, and kids came by on bikes and

screamed, Hey, fat lady! Hey, fat ass!

And I turned around and went inside again.

And I decided that day, or shortly thereafter, that no one was ever going

have that kind of power over me again.

That I deserved to have a good life. And God damn it, I was going to do whatever

it took.

I was going to make whatever kind of world I needed to make in myself or

to do that. And I did that. I took down all the artwork in my apartment that was

of thin people.

a lot of Erte things and Art Nouveau things. They all went.

Only representations of fat people went up there.

I thought a lot about the politics of Luxism, and I read some things on it,

I came to a real clear understanding of it.

And I over and over and over again told myself that this is artificial.

You know, most of it didn't come down off the mount and say, fat people, spit

them, you know.

that people choose to do this, and why in the world, what sickness would it be

in me to choose to subscribe to an aesthetic that showed me as not

attractive? I have a choice.

I don't need to subscribe to that aesthetic.

I can train my aesthetic just as I was trained as a child as to what's

attractive and what's not. I could retrain myself.

And I did that. And now I only sleep with fat lovers.

between two bad decisions?

It's a rough one, whatever it is.

Along with paradigm.

Paradigm, isn't that a positive?

No, that's paradigm.

That's a beautiful thing.

They weren't kidding when they said...

Virginia country is just beautiful.

The only thing I don't like really is the chairs just don't seem to fit, but

mountains are beautiful.

The people are great. The hospitality is great.

That's beautiful.

Do you feel that you've gone either one way or the other in this struggle?

You mean like in terms of dieting?

Dieting versus acceptance or somewhere in the middle?

I think that, you know, I could see myself being a happy, healthy,

fat person now, you know, where I wasn't really prepared to entertain it. I was

prepared to say it, but it wasn't in here, you know, or here.

You're the doctor. I haven't felt my heart for such a long time.

This was an amazing experience.

And, you know, with all these people, it's an amazing experience.

It was an amazing experience for you. It was, you know, I don't know what it

was. Well, I do know what it was, you know. I feel now I know what it was.

Somebody listened, you know.

And we'll meet two Winnipeg men who will tell us what it's like to go through

life fat and what they're doing about it. All that and more coming up next on

McGinnis.

CJOB News reports to Winnipeg on the hour, every hour.

With me in the studio this afternoon, I have two men who are starting a support

group for obese men. They are Rick Zakowicz and Dr. Mo Lerner. You can talk

them on CJOB 780 -6868. The lines are open for your call.

Rick, you did the amphetamine, 13, 14 years old, courtesy of your doctor.

Yes. I mean, that must have lasting side effects.

Oh, yeah. You seem pretty hyper today. You're not on them anymore, are you? No,

not at all.

Yeah, it had lasting side effects because I was a depressed child, or I

depressed, suppressed. I mean, what I was subjected to during my school years

was a lot of humiliation.

I was often, you know, during gym, when...

Teams were picked. You would be shirts or skins, and inevitably I would always

be put on the skins team, and I had to take my shirt off, and of course there

was a lot of public laughter.

Kids can be cruel. Kids can be cruel, but it wasn't just the kids. It was also

the gym teacher.

At one time I refused to take my shirt off because I just didn't want to be

humiliated. I was strapped for that. I was taken in and strapped and said, if

you don't like the way you are, you'd better do something about it and stop

stuffing your face. I was told by another teacher.

a fat comment that I wouldn't make good soap.

What do you think of these people, and I'm going to leave out names and we all

know who they are, but what do you think of these people who, courtesy of your

desire and everybody's desire to be thin, now live in 10 ,000 square foot

in Beverly Hills and have Rolls Royces in their driveways. I mean, they're

making millions off of this stuff. Exactly, because there is this cycle

exists out there. If you put the hope out, you know, it's like people who are

terminally ill and suddenly there's some miracle cure in Mexico or something

like that, and they'll fly down and they'll do that because we're grasping.

We've been conditioned to think that there is an answer to this. Is it

exploitation? Oh, to the worst degree, to the worst degree.

You know, it's just endless.

The next question, then, is what are the causes, then? I mean, if people are not

lazy, if they're not overeating, what are some of the causes of obesity that

people tend to overlook?

I think there's no question that eating a lot is a cause of obesity. What we

eat, we are.

There are other causes, too, though, and one of those is the metabolism factor,

people especially who are obese as youngsters.

their bodies learn to set a thermostat at a certain level and they always try

maintain that level so the people who diet extensively just end up with their

bodies wanting to come back to that set level and it's sometimes an unbelievable

struggle to avoid that nature has provided us with this, by the way, to

survive, or I suppose to have helped us survive centuries or millions of years

ago when we were foraging for food.

Final thoughts, gentlemen, before I let you go?

Yeah, 95 % of diets don't work. So for those people who are out there

dieting, looking for the next biscuit or powder or this or that.

That's not me talking, that's statistics talking.

The NFDA, the National Food and Drug Administration, put a request out for

papers from all of these diet industries asking for substantiating evidence

that... proves that their programs or their products will keep weight off

a period of two, three, and five years, and none of the research that was

submitted was able to stand up. So what I'm saying is you can be overweight, and

you can be healthy, and you can have your mind clear, and life is a precious

thing, and don't fall into the trap that has been set for us.

So finally, like, you know, it's about a five -layer cake, and I'm through two

layers. And by the third layer, okay, she's already another smoke coming out

her ears, you know. She comes to the waitress and goes, he threw at the cake.

Take away the cake, you know. Did she say that? Yeah.

I've had that a bunch of times, haven't I? Have you ever had that happen to you?

I had in Safeway one time. Nobody laughed about it, though. I mean, I'm in

Safeway. I'm in Safeway. I'm looking at the pastries, and I'm saying.

God, I'd love to eat that, but, you know, like I really shouldn't.

And I'm like, yeah, I will. I put it in. I had a lady come up to me in the

checker. You don't need that. Get that back. Oh, you're kidding. Yeah, she

literally took the food out of my, you know. I think people accuse me often of

having a mad look on my face.

Maybe I have a smile right now, but I don't know. But I'm often accused of

and I think people don't really cross me because of that. They don't. You know,

I'm talking adults.

But I find the most hurtful are younger people.

You know, I like wearing shorts in the summertime. I'll wear shorts right up

until October if I can. I don't care how, you know, it gets pretty cool. But

love wearing shorts in the summertime. And I'll walk by kids, and if I hear

giggling, I automatically think it's about me.

And that's what I find hurtful.

I was at this conference in Boston. I went to Boston.

A bunch of 300 large, fat people.

We went into a swimming pool together, I swear. You know how you guys can share

this with me. You know when you're going into a swimming pool, you have to send

your scout first.

Make sure there's no one there, no kids and stuff.

Went into this swimming pool, hundreds of fat people all over the place having

good time, and then there's this one thin lifeguard shaking, trembling,

in terror.

Please don't follow me. No, I'm going to swim. Please. It was nice to be around

people.

who were warm and receptive and loving.

I had a father who called, and it was a very, again, very emotional call.

And he said, you know, this has plagued our family. He said, my wife has gone

through operations to try to have fat removed.

He said, I have dieted endlessly for all my life. And he says, now I see this.

this embodied in my daughter, who now is struggling with her weight, and all of

her kids and peers are beginning to develop figures, and

she's still sort of very plump. And he says, I feel her pain. He says, you have

to do something for children.

He says, there's no support groups out there for kids. He says, and that's

it starts, right there. He says, I can see her withdrawing. I can see her

pulling out of life.

I never had any fat role models when I was a kid.

See, fat people just aren't respected, in spite of their achievements.

The focus didn't seem to be on his victory or his accomplishment. The focus

seemed to be on his size.

It was a big victory.

There's a little play on words there, I guess. It was his... It was a big

victory, but...

Darren, the first paragraph, there was six shots about this guy's weight. I

mean, that's the first paragraph, and you haven't even mentioned anything

his victory. You've talked about his size.

Triple extra -large win.

You know, a wind so big it blocked out the sun, a birdie binge, cakewalk. I

mean, it went on and on and on and on. And I take issue with somebody overdoing

it, you know, becoming a little indulgent. You know, just the words

victory. And, you know, like, it's got milk.

You're reading things into it, favoring. I would have used that in any story.

I don't think so. I would have birdie binge, cakewalk. Those are phrases.

That didn't even enter into the FAF equation.

They're just things that I use in day -to -day writing.

Well, he blew the course record away. And that, to me, should have been the

headline. And the headline wasn't that. The headline was extra -large, triple

extra -large win.

So to them, fat friendly means that they have access to the facility,

that the chairs will fit, that the washrooms are suitable.

So the term they use is fat friendly. Well, it should be as readable as a

wheelchair access sign for instance, right? That's why I think using the

international symbol is really important because we're all aware of that. Yes.

So it's a good start.

Yeah.

But all five access, I think, has a more universal appeal.

It says it better. And it says it better, and it's fair.

We're not asking for anything outrageous.

We just want to fit in chairs and be serviced in the same way that everybody

else is serviced.

Where are you going to present this logo to the conference?

What sort of situation?

It's NAFA, National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance.

And it's in New York. I've never been to New York.

Well,

you better not take your time.

The city moves fast, you'd be left behind.

Craziest place I've seen.

And a bit around, baby, if you know what I mean. We're in New York City.

We're in New York City, Shakespeare.

Well, you better not move too slow. That's right. We're in New York City.

Wake up, don't sleep, get on your feet.

New York City, move to the beat. We're in New York City.

Thank you.

There's something else that I've learned, and that is that some things in

just aren't fair.

Life deals us some blows.

But, you know, the way I work on things now is I ask myself, is whatever is

bothering me right now, is this going to have a bearing on my life two years

from now? Am I going to look back on this moment and be as sad or upset?

I hope not.

And if that's so, please do as I say, not as I do.

In spite of your grief, in spite of whatever's bugging you, get up.

Get out of here. Do something. Turn the pages of a book.

Take the exercise class with everyone. Go for a walk.

And you can smile.

You can do something positive for yourself.

You know, if looking in a corner of a window and I see this sign, that means I

can walk through that door and I can go to the washroom. I can sit down.

I can fit into all of these kinds of places.

I think this is important not only for us, but it's important for our children

and our children's children that we prepare a world for them that says, hey,

can come in here, you know.

This is where you belong.

It's a ticket. It's a freedom ticket, you know.

And if you don't have your freedom, then you don't have anything.

This is about giving people different eyes, you know.

When they look at us in a weird way, we should be able to go, popcorn.

Oh, yeah.

You're people. You have feelings.

I remember having a drink with Patricia Schwartz in Virginia, and we toasted the

possibility of our working together.

Well, here we are in New York.

You didn't know you'd be a cover kind of guy, did you?

I don't know what.

No, it's really, it's very loose.

Oh, right. Exactly what I wanted.

There's some distortion elements of the tie is really dominant.

It's like, you know, like a carpet in the front of the picture.

Yeah, it helps. It helps. Yeah.

Talk about know -how.

Oh, that's so strong.

I like it a lot.

I like

that.

Very friendly.

Nice, Rick.

That's great.

Boy, I tell you, Rick, you look just like one of those, you know, those, you

look like a, you know, the potentate.

Totally fresh.

My God.

But this is what I had in mind, really. I wanted to make the photos with a bevy

of beautiful Napa women, you know?

So I got my wish.

All right, that's perfect.

That's it.

Look at that.

Divine.

I think I've come from a form of imprisonment.

And although I'm not really sure where I'm going, I feel that the chains are

off, that now I'm walking with freedom.

And there are possibilities now that I can reach for and strive for.

I don't feel held down anymore.

I don't feel incomplete.

I don't feel that I'm in a temporary state.

I don't feel that I've got to do all of this before I'm worthy of having this

and that.

Coming to accept who you are and realize that a lot of other people were

wrong is something that you have to sort of work really hard at doing. It

doesn't just come easy. Because you've got doctors, you've got, you know,

got... The media, you've got, you know, the press, all of those things are

giving you this message, you know. You're not right. You're too fat.

You don't fit in. You don't belong.

You have to change.

And all of a sudden, some people come along and change you and says, you're

the way you are.

You're okay with what you have, okay?

Here's how you get well. Here's how you get better. But the way you are is fine,

okay? Walk through this world in that way.

I was walking through the garden of Eden and there were apples all over the

ground.

Eve was standing there in this discount store getting ready to try on a new

gown.

Now Adam, he's sat in the corner looking down a little long on the face.

Then a voice from Mr. Snake said, Adam, take a break. We've got to learn from

our mistakes. And he said, this ain't no Garden of Eden.

And this ain't no orchard in the sky.

And if you're going to break the rules, then you'd better learn the blues and

play them to the day that you die.

was just a young boy yes my very first grade in school they said you

stay inside the lines boy and never tell a lie follow that golden rule

but I ended up in the corner for rarely doing none of

the above they said you bow your head and pray boy cause come your judgment

they won't let you into heaven above but I knew

This ain't no garden of Eden.

This ain't no orchard in the sky.

Guess I like to break the rules and I love to sing the blues and I will sing

them to the day that I die.

Yep.

This ain't no Garden of Eden, and this ain't no orchard in the sky.

And if you're gonna break the rules, well, you better learn the blues and

them to the day that you die.