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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,400 You wish you would know what lies afterlife. 2 00:00:09,060 --> 00:00:11,380 Yeah. What heaven is like. 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,440 I always said if I had to die, I want to be buried right where there's children. 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,620 I want them next to me. I would feel safer that way. 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,400 I need their spirit to protect me. 6 00:00:38,860 --> 00:00:39,860 Where are they protecting you from? 7 00:00:41,620 --> 00:00:44,600 I see them as protection. I see them as like angels. 8 00:01:06,289 --> 00:01:10,330 Michael Jackson is back in court for what could be the most crucial phase of 9 00:01:10,330 --> 00:01:11,810 trial on child abuse charges. 10 00:01:12,910 --> 00:01:16,110 A key prosecution witness is expected to testify today. 11 00:01:18,790 --> 00:01:21,750 We needed to put Gavin's mother on the witness stand. 12 00:01:24,370 --> 00:01:30,150 Janet was intelligent, not well educated, but intelligent, and had a 13 00:01:30,150 --> 00:01:31,670 memory of events. 14 00:01:33,290 --> 00:01:38,410 This is someone who was a guest at Michael Jackson's ranch during the 15 00:01:38,410 --> 00:01:43,550 time that he engaged in the alleged molestations, and they were worried 16 00:01:43,550 --> 00:01:44,550 her. 17 00:01:44,830 --> 00:01:49,030 She was capable of blowing a whistle in a way that could be very harmful for 18 00:01:49,030 --> 00:01:50,030 them. 19 00:01:50,090 --> 00:01:54,990 Gavin's mother is a key witness, and some observers believe the outcome of 20 00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:57,290 trial could hinge on her testimony. 21 00:02:00,270 --> 00:02:05,480 Throughout the trial, I had to give Michael Jackson the benefit of the 22 00:02:07,820 --> 00:02:13,760 That's what a defendant has a right to, not guilty until proven guilty. 23 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,640 But I thought when Janet Arvizo got on the stand, she would be convincing 24 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:24,080 to make things look bad for Michael Jackson. 25 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:32,100 I wanted the jury to know that when Janet was in Neverland, She was very 26 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:36,080 distrusting of what was going on. They were continuously trying to separate her 27 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,240 from the children. 28 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,960 She told the jury that she's relegated to one of the guest cottages on the 29 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:49,120 property. Her sons are in the house in his room. 30 00:02:49,620 --> 00:02:51,820 The front door is locked. 31 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:57,060 So her kids are no longer with her, and she doesn't have access to them. 32 00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:01,640 And you couldn't just walk into his bedroom unannounced. 33 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:06,740 There's a combination lock in the access to the bedroom suite. 34 00:03:08,660 --> 00:03:13,780 And then you walk down a hallway. And the hallway had chimes in it that were 35 00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:16,460 activated by a motion detector. 36 00:03:16,900 --> 00:03:21,040 So he would hear chimes going off if somebody was walking down the hallway. 37 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:27,120 Do you think Janet knew that her son was being molested? I asked her that many 38 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,120 times. 39 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,160 She certainly had concerns. 40 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:34,960 He reached the point where she knew she just had to get out of there, and she 41 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,360 had to get her kids out of there. 42 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,620 But she just wasn't allowed to leave. 43 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,040 To keep her and the kids on Neverland, they were telling her there are killers 44 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,040 who want to do harm to her children. 45 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:50,520 You need to stay here. 46 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,400 Very quiet. 47 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:53,760 Everybody settle. Thank you. 48 00:03:54,980 --> 00:03:56,180 She had to tell the jury. 49 00:03:56,620 --> 00:04:01,480 She was compelled to do this video by Michael Jackson's people because they 50 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,020 that the Bashir documentary was a problem for him. 51 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:09,320 So they had the whole family sitting in chairs talking about how wonderful 52 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:10,380 Michael Jackson was. 53 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:18,000 But it was a tape that they did deliberately to be able to use in 54 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,019 the contingency of this happening, where there was an arrest, where there was a 55 00:04:22,019 --> 00:04:23,020 prosecution. 56 00:04:23,479 --> 00:04:29,300 My responsibility of a mother is to make sure that my children are in safe... 57 00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:31,700 safety. 58 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:39,640 They were controlling her and where she went and what she did and who she talked 59 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,500 to. You know, they were desperate to keep this under the carpet. 60 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,920 The stories by these accusers were extraordinarily convincing. 61 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:01,180 Was she kidnapped? 62 00:05:01,540 --> 00:05:02,900 Absolutely not. 63 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:06,980 Most false fabrication you ever heard in your life. 64 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:16,180 Most of the jurors were really taken aback by what Janet said on the witness 65 00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:17,180 stand. 66 00:05:18,030 --> 00:05:24,470 i think they were not totally convinced that the allegation 67 00:05:24,470 --> 00:05:31,370 was true none of it computed 68 00:05:31,370 --> 00:05:37,470 none of it made sense to me my family's visit to neverland 69 00:05:37,470 --> 00:05:40,530 coincided with the arvizo family 70 00:05:40,530 --> 00:05:47,510 we said hello to them and we got to know them and their kids seemed like really 71 00:05:48,590 --> 00:05:52,470 Friendly. Gavin, thank God, seemed healthy, which was a really good thing. 72 00:05:53,030 --> 00:05:55,850 And I spoke to his mother, and she explained to me the journey they had 73 00:05:56,650 --> 00:05:59,190 I felt that they were very happy to be at Neverland. 74 00:06:00,810 --> 00:06:04,790 Gavin was completely normal, and there was no weirdness with his family. 75 00:06:05,550 --> 00:06:07,190 So none of this stuff makes sense. 76 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:21,500 I am subpoenaed by the prosecution to testify about what I saw at 77 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:22,500 Neverland. 78 00:06:24,940 --> 00:06:29,880 His name is Rudy Provencio. He reportedly has kept diaries and logs 79 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,400 of the weirdness and things that he thought wasn't quite right. 80 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:41,380 I was fearful and anxious, but I didn't see anything wrong with just telling the 81 00:06:41,380 --> 00:06:42,380 truth of what I know. 82 00:06:42,750 --> 00:06:46,450 especially when a child might have been violated in some way. 83 00:06:47,050 --> 00:06:48,690 It's a person's responsibility. 84 00:06:51,170 --> 00:06:56,610 I told the jury I had overheard a conversation that is being told to the 85 00:06:56,610 --> 00:07:01,930 that these killers could be out there to get you, and you have to be careful. 86 00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:03,030 You need protection. 87 00:07:05,250 --> 00:07:09,370 It was obvious to me that they were worried that the Avizos were going to 88 00:07:09,370 --> 00:07:11,970 and make the problem worse for Michael. 89 00:07:17,450 --> 00:07:22,990 One of the witnesses that I remember quite clearly was Rudy Provencio. 90 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:25,650 I totally believed him. 91 00:07:25,850 --> 00:07:32,770 Thought he was telling the truth about his feelings about the Orvisos and that 92 00:07:32,770 --> 00:07:35,090 they were being held at the ranch. 93 00:07:38,910 --> 00:07:40,710 Rudy was a compelling witness. 94 00:07:41,770 --> 00:07:45,110 And not only that, we found a tape. 95 00:07:45,660 --> 00:07:50,420 where they recorded the call, and they told her there are killers who are out 96 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:51,420 there who want to do harm. 97 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,880 The DA revealed today that he can actually corroborate some of the points 98 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,000 claimed. So a lot of the stories she tells seem to be true. 99 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,500 I told Michael, I said, Michael, if you had done this, it makes you a 100 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:05,500 freakazoid. 101 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,640 It makes you horrible. 102 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,460 He says, I know, Brian. 103 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,480 Michael said, Brian, I didn't do those things. Never. 104 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:20,120 Never. Brian, show them it's not true. Tell them. Tell the world. 105 00:08:20,660 --> 00:08:24,020 I told Michael I would overturn every stone, and I did. 106 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:32,140 Michael Jackson's defense team got a hold of every record dealing with the 107 00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:33,140 entire family. 108 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,419 Not just Gavin, but everyone. 109 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:42,179 Any job application that their mother had ever applied for, they were able to 110 00:08:42,179 --> 00:08:43,179 get their hands on it. 111 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:46,380 Medical records, they got their hands on. 112 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,180 Gavin, of course, had been horribly sick and undergone surgery. 113 00:08:51,620 --> 00:08:54,200 They had all of his medical records as well. 114 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,940 They had the gynecological records of his sister, who at the time was 15 years 115 00:08:59,940 --> 00:09:00,940 old. 116 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:04,700 There was no piece of paper that they ever generated that they weren't going 117 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:05,700 get their hands on. 118 00:09:06,190 --> 00:09:09,690 There was nothing in their lifetime that they weren't going to know about. 119 00:09:13,610 --> 00:09:20,330 The mother was getting welfare from the Los Angeles County Bureau of Welfare. 120 00:09:21,130 --> 00:09:26,210 When you apply for welfare, you must do a full welfare application. 121 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:34,090 And I sat in my office looking at this going, oh my, oh my, oh my, oh my. 122 00:09:34,670 --> 00:09:36,010 Talk about a gold mine. 123 00:09:37,750 --> 00:09:41,650 Michael Jackson's defense team gets its first chance today to cross -examine the 124 00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:43,490 mother of the pop star's main accuser. 125 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:50,830 The documents showed repeated, continuous falsity, concealing the 126 00:09:50,830 --> 00:09:55,810 money that Michael spent taking him to day spas, getting him bikini waxed, 127 00:09:55,810 --> 00:10:01,710 buying this and paying that, and luxury dinners. They concealed it all. 128 00:10:02,250 --> 00:10:07,870 They lied to welfare, and you won't believe what they did before. 129 00:10:08,830 --> 00:10:13,350 The jury heard she made previous accusations of sexual assault, claiming 130 00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:17,330 security guards at this JCPenney store, quote, followed them into the mall 131 00:10:17,330 --> 00:10:21,930 parking lot and proceeded to beat them, and that a Tower Records security guard, 132 00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:24,990 quote, joined the fracas, sexually assaulted her. 133 00:10:25,650 --> 00:10:29,030 The family had claimed that they were molested. 134 00:10:29,740 --> 00:10:34,780 by a security guard at J .C. Penney. And the guard just said, oh, you've got to 135 00:10:34,780 --> 00:10:35,459 be kidding. 136 00:10:35,460 --> 00:10:42,220 Well, J .C. Penney's parted with $152 ,000, and all of this was concealed 137 00:10:42,220 --> 00:10:43,480 from welfare. 138 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,160 They're just defrauding everybody they can defraud. 139 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:55,180 And when Michael Jackson brought this family into his fold, this was 140 00:10:55,180 --> 00:10:58,320 a moment of opportunity that they... 141 00:10:58,810 --> 00:11:04,890 to bring down the greatest, biggest superstar in the world. 142 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:08,570 This was all a scam. 143 00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:24,750 The defense was painting the accusers' family as grifters, as people 144 00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,470 who went after celebrities for money. 145 00:11:30,030 --> 00:11:33,270 What I've learned covering trials is that the best lawyers are good 146 00:11:33,270 --> 00:11:39,410 storytellers. And if they tell a story that the jury can picture and absorb and 147 00:11:39,410 --> 00:11:42,670 go, aha, I get that, that is damning. 148 00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:53,930 They were trying to show that she was just looking for a payday. 149 00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:56,930 I knew it wasn't true. 150 00:11:58,090 --> 00:12:02,310 But this was what Michael Jackson would do, discredit the mothers of these 151 00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:03,310 children. 152 00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:09,630 Even as Michael Jackson, through the course of the trial, was becoming frail 153 00:12:09,630 --> 00:12:15,370 more gaunt and thinner, it looked like the chances of him walking away a free 154 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:19,770 man were increasing with every disastrous prosecution witness. 155 00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:35,770 Next month, Wade Robson leaves his hometown of Brisbane for Los Angeles, 156 00:12:35,770 --> 00:12:38,870 he'll live with the reclusive millionaire entertainer. 157 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:42,950 What's the thing you most want to do, then? 158 00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:45,530 Stay with Michael forever. 159 00:12:46,030 --> 00:12:47,030 Really? 160 00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:48,490 All right. 161 00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:53,670 I understood the importance of being able to look at other victims. And, of 162 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:57,890 course, Wade Robson was at the top of the list because we knew that he had 163 00:12:57,890 --> 00:12:59,590 involved with Michael Jackson for years. 164 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,980 We were absolutely convinced that he was a victim, even though he had not come 165 00:13:05,980 --> 00:13:07,180 forward and disclosed it. 166 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:14,200 Wade Robson was a successful choreographer, and Jackson was 167 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,560 getting his career going. 168 00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:23,540 We reached out to him, hoping that he would testify, and he said no. 169 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:29,300 There was another young boy from Australia, Brett Barnes. 170 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,360 who traveled with him throughout Europe and South America over a year. 171 00:13:34,620 --> 00:13:36,160 But he wouldn't testify. 172 00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:42,380 Jimmy Safechuck, we believed he was a victim, but he wouldn't come forward 173 00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:43,380 either. 174 00:13:43,460 --> 00:13:47,340 So we needed the cooperation of all of them, and we had the cooperation of none 175 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:48,340 of them. 176 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,240 But, you know, I understand. 177 00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:55,380 I handled a number of child molest cases over the years. 178 00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:57,300 It's a tough thing. 179 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,400 for kids to come forward and publicly talk about having been victim of sex 180 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,720 crime, and they disclose when they disclose. 181 00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:09,320 And there's nothing we can do to speed up that process. 182 00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:11,040 Michael, innocent! 183 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:12,820 Michael, innocent! 184 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,840 We also understood that it's not easy being an accuser of Michael Jackson. 185 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,540 not easy dealing with his fans. 186 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,540 There are multitudes of them, and they can be vicious. 187 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,000 Michael, innocent! 188 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,120 I was getting death threats on a regular basis, saying, I know where you live, I 189 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,440 know where your children are, I know your wife's name, I'm going to kill all 190 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,440 them. 191 00:14:35,460 --> 00:14:36,820 I mean, it was horrible. 192 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,660 There's an absurdity and almost like a cult -like following. 193 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,760 People who love Michael Jackson, they defended him to the teeth. You know, 194 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,000 referred to him more like a god. 195 00:14:56,100 --> 00:15:00,140 He trained his fans to be his soldiers. 196 00:15:00,420 --> 00:15:06,620 There's no question. His behavior, his idea that he was such a victim and he 197 00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:07,620 needed this protection. 198 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,560 His fans bought it. Hook, line, and sinker. 199 00:15:12,020 --> 00:15:14,460 And boy, oh boy, did they ever come to his defense. 200 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,960 Do you feel now that the public is fickle? 201 00:15:21,740 --> 00:15:25,620 The loyal ones. That no matter what, they're there, man. 202 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:27,180 They're thick and thin. 203 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,360 They're right there with you. And you feel unconditional love from them. 204 00:15:31,580 --> 00:15:32,580 Yeah. 205 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:34,360 They have been loyal. 206 00:15:34,980 --> 00:15:36,560 They'll fight you about me. 207 00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:48,050 It's been a white -knuckle ride, but now, 43 days after it started, the 208 00:15:48,050 --> 00:15:53,090 prosecution has rested its case. And it's time now for Michael Jackson to 209 00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:54,650 his side of the story. 210 00:15:56,670 --> 00:16:03,330 The prosecution had said that Wade Robson was molested by Michael Jackson. 211 00:16:05,530 --> 00:16:08,430 I had called Wade. He was in Australia. 212 00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:10,670 Wade. 213 00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:13,040 You've got to come and testify. 214 00:16:13,660 --> 00:16:17,440 Brian, I have told everybody it's not true. I wasn't molested. 215 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,700 I'm not coming. No, I'm not. I'm not setting foot anywhere near this. 216 00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:25,500 I must have called him at least six times. 217 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,900 Finally, he says, you're a persistent man. I says, yes, I am, Wade. 218 00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:36,540 The first witness for the defense was Wade Robeson. 219 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:43,100 It's interesting because Wade Robson has said that he declined and then was 220 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:44,200 subpoenaed by the defense. 221 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,960 But when he did take the stand, he was a very strong witness. 222 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:54,500 Wade Robson told jurors he first met Jackson at age five and shared a bed 223 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:56,920 him more than 20 times until he was 14. 224 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,740 He got up in that courtroom and he said, Michael Jackson never molested me. 225 00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:08,170 Michael Jackson never put his hands any place that they weren't supposed to be. 226 00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:13,609 Michael Jackson never harmed me. Michael Jackson did not commit child 227 00:17:13,609 --> 00:17:14,950 molestation with me. 228 00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:17,770 Uncanny testimony. 229 00:17:18,410 --> 00:17:19,410 Fabulous. 230 00:17:21,010 --> 00:17:22,589 That was a problem for us. 231 00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:27,310 Because we were really hammering on the fact that he was a victim. And he's up 232 00:17:27,310 --> 00:17:28,310 there saying, I'm not. 233 00:17:28,790 --> 00:17:30,850 And I'm telling you, it didn't happen. 234 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,080 The second defense witness, Rhett Barnes, said the same thing, adding, I 235 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,360 tell you that if he had, I wouldn't be here. 236 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:41,400 Did they do a good job? 237 00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:43,180 Oh, my. 238 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:44,780 You betcha. 239 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:56,060 The defense has now presented its witness list, and there are some big 240 00:17:56,060 --> 00:17:57,580 Hollywood heavy hitters on there. 241 00:17:59,450 --> 00:18:03,990 When this started, a lot of people felt that this was an open and shut case. 242 00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:10,790 But it became a soap opera, as they say, but really a soap opera on steroids. 243 00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:20,330 The prosecution was claiming that Michael's employee saw Michael put his 244 00:18:20,330 --> 00:18:23,090 up Macaulay Culkin's pants and play with his privates. 245 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,840 Okay, well, what does Mack say? What does Macaulay Culkin say? 246 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,900 One of the most anticipated witnesses in the Michael Jackson case took the stand 247 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:36,900 today. 248 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,900 Macaulay Culkin denied it, and to this day denies that he was molested by 249 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:41,900 Michael Jackson. 250 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:48,140 You know, I remember cross -examining Macaulay Culkin, and he's an actor, you 251 00:18:48,140 --> 00:18:50,500 know, and so everything has a certain flair to it. 252 00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:56,660 His appearance, his fame, his celebrity, he was just an extraordinarily 253 00:18:56,660 --> 00:18:57,660 effective witness. 254 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:05,780 We live in a celebrity -driven society, and people are really attracted to 255 00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:10,420 celebrities. They're mesmerized by them. So that certainly happened at the 256 00:19:10,420 --> 00:19:12,480 trial, and I'm sure the jury was impacted too. 257 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:18,940 During the trial... 258 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:24,460 Gavin's mind was completely scrambled, and it was heartbreaking. 259 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:29,620 They were just stuck in this apartment for months and months. 260 00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:37,160 There was a school out the window, and they just look at the kids 261 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:43,280 going, they just wanted to be in school. This was really tough on everybody. 262 00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:49,770 Gavin was by himself in that trial. 263 00:19:50,270 --> 00:19:52,110 He was literally by himself. 264 00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:56,530 And it was very burdensome for him. It was very challenging. 265 00:19:57,810 --> 00:20:03,130 But he was courageous, and he never told us, I'm not going to do it, I can't do 266 00:20:03,130 --> 00:20:04,970 it, this is just ruining my life. 267 00:20:05,670 --> 00:20:11,290 But he understood the importance of it. At 15, he understood his obligation to 268 00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:12,290 do it. 269 00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:20,070 The trial had raised a lot of doubts, in my mind anyway. 270 00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:22,730 So I wanted to talk to Gavin. 271 00:20:23,870 --> 00:20:28,710 I wanted to, you know, get a chance to talk to him myself. You know, obviously 272 00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:33,630 all was off the record, and I didn't report it because, you know, I wanted to 273 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:35,630 respect his privacy. 274 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:41,850 He says, you know, the world has me all wrong. He says, you know, I enjoyed my 275 00:20:41,850 --> 00:20:42,850 time with him. 276 00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:44,290 You know, I just... 277 00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:46,390 The things he did was wrong. 278 00:20:47,030 --> 00:20:48,030 He hurt me. 279 00:20:48,790 --> 00:20:54,050 And I just thought, wow, you know, this kid is telling me that this grown man, 280 00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:58,410 this international icon, hurt him. 281 00:20:59,230 --> 00:21:00,690 I couldn't help but to believe him. 282 00:21:01,210 --> 00:21:03,690 I found no reason not to believe him. 283 00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:09,390 Michael, are you happy? The case is almost over. 284 00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:11,390 Silence will be maintained. 285 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,540 It's now certain that Michael Jackson won't be taking the witness stand in his 286 00:21:16,540 --> 00:21:17,540 own defense. 287 00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:24,440 Just as it seemed that this case was drawing quietly to an end, there is word 288 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,060 a possible dramatic finale. 289 00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:34,180 Months before the trial actually started, the police had interviewed 290 00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:36,480 I wanted the jury to see it. 291 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:41,410 Because I think if you watch that, it's very hard for somebody to watch that and 292 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:42,950 say, oh yeah, they're making the whole thing up. 293 00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:47,690 He said that he wanted to show me how to masturbate. 294 00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:49,750 He wanted to show you how to masturbate? 295 00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:52,690 Okay. I said no. 296 00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:57,130 Then he said you do it for me. 297 00:21:57,550 --> 00:21:58,550 Okay. 298 00:22:00,430 --> 00:22:01,790 And did he do it for you? 299 00:22:10,860 --> 00:22:11,860 Kevin, it's fine? 300 00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:13,920 He put his hand in my pants. 301 00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:15,440 Did he put it on the outside? 302 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:17,320 Inside. Inside? 303 00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:19,120 And what did he do next? 304 00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:21,700 He started masturbating. 305 00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:23,900 Okay. 306 00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:29,220 After a while, I told him I didn't want to do that. 307 00:22:29,860 --> 00:22:30,860 Did he stop? 308 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:31,960 I told him not. 309 00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:33,640 He kept on doing it. 310 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:43,260 If there was a smoking gun in the whole case, That was Gavin's interview with 311 00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:44,260 the sheriff's department. 312 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,060 I had really been convinced that Gavin was telling the truth. 313 00:22:50,140 --> 00:22:54,960 Others on the jury saw this as not being the case at all. 314 00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:58,640 A lot of people in that courtroom were very moved by that video. 315 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,220 I got to tell you, Jim, I got to tell you, a lot of people were moved by that 316 00:23:03,220 --> 00:23:05,840 video, but a lot of people thought the kid was acting. 317 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:13,560 You know, I suppose there's reasonable doubt that he made it up. Or he was told 318 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:20,420 by Janet to tell the sheriff's department that he had been molested. 319 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,800 It just didn't come across that way to me. 320 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:29,060 He absolutely looked believable. 321 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,920 After 14 weeks of often lurid testimony, Michael Jackson's trial is now entering 322 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,300 its most crucial phase. 323 00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:50,560 In Santa Maria, California tonight, it's all in the hands of the jury now. Eight 324 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,300 women, four men on the Michael Jackson jury will decide whether or not he is 325 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:56,940 guilty of child molestation. 326 00:23:58,420 --> 00:24:00,080 I was worried about the jury. 327 00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:05,020 I had complete faith in everything Gavin was saying. 328 00:24:06,179 --> 00:24:12,580 And there was never a question in my mind as to the honesty or accuracy of 329 00:24:12,580 --> 00:24:13,600 statements. Never. 330 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,840 But this was an international superstar, one of the most powerful men in the 331 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,140 world. And that changes the equation. 332 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:26,400 No matter what humanitarian actions or no matter what joy and entertainment he 333 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,320 brought to the world, if Michael was harming children, he was a monster. 334 00:24:30,860 --> 00:24:33,140 But he was not a monster. He didn't do any of those things. 335 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,720 There are people here from more than 28 countries reporting on the trial. Hotel 336 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,600 rooms are booked within a 40 -mile radius. 337 00:24:40,820 --> 00:24:44,520 Special fences and security have been brought in. And the fan contingent 338 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,560 continues to grow as well. 339 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:52,040 The fan presence was there from beginning to end. And they were 340 00:24:52,060 --> 00:24:56,580 Those are the hardcore Michael Jackson fans from around the world. 341 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:05,080 Michael had encouraged his family and by extension his fans to wear white, 342 00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:06,180 saying that he was innocent. 343 00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:11,860 But I thought, at the very least, it's going to be a hung jury, but they'll 344 00:25:11,860 --> 00:25:12,860 probably get a conviction. 345 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:18,360 He could face nearly 20 years in prison. If the jury comes back guilty, Jackson 346 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,500 will be off to Corcoran State Prison's protective housing unit, home to, among 347 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:25,200 others, convicted murderer Charles Manson. 348 00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:28,760 Michael was feeling... 349 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:32,510 You're the biggest star in the world. 350 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:40,190 You have magic that nobody else has, and you are scared to death. 351 00:25:40,350 --> 00:25:42,950 Your life is coming to an end. 352 00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:46,270 And I said to him, I said, Michael, we're going to win. 353 00:25:46,610 --> 00:25:47,850 Do you understand? 354 00:25:48,210 --> 00:25:49,410 We're going to win. 355 00:25:49,930 --> 00:25:53,230 He says, Brian, I'm so scared, I don't think so. 356 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,060 Transmission, can you hear me? Can anyone hear me? 357 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,340 Edgar, they're on the... Come with me, it's okay. 358 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:07,980 There is breaking news that the jury in Santa Maria, California, has sent word 359 00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:09,960 that it has reached a verdict. 360 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,520 They announced that they had a verdict and it would be presented in the 361 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,580 courtroom in two hours. 362 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,840 He drove up the freeway from Neverland Ranch and... 363 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:29,240 The convoy of cars and fans behind him was unbelievable. 364 00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:35,780 His motorcade, as you see from this helicopter shot live, left his so 365 00:26:35,780 --> 00:26:39,260 Neverland Ranch within the past 30 minutes. 366 00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:44,180 In the car, you had Michael in the middle and Latoya on the right. 367 00:26:44,660 --> 00:26:51,140 And she prayed with him, Dear Lord, take care of your child, Michael Jackson. 368 00:26:54,190 --> 00:26:56,190 He is your servant, Lord. 369 00:26:57,250 --> 00:26:59,430 He does your bidding. 370 00:26:59,910 --> 00:27:01,810 Protect him, defend him. 371 00:27:02,690 --> 00:27:04,730 And Michael is stoic. 372 00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:06,810 He doesn't say a word. 373 00:27:13,330 --> 00:27:15,530 Outside the courtroom was a zoo. 374 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:18,370 I've never seen anything like that before. 375 00:27:26,620 --> 00:27:27,760 Gavin was not there. 376 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,220 It felt like too much to take on. 377 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:36,660 If he's found guilty, it'll be a journey not back to Neverland but straight to 378 00:27:36,660 --> 00:27:37,660 prison. 379 00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:56,240 We're in a waiting game now. 380 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,700 By the way, we should point out that the local police department has dispatched 381 00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:08,660 a number of officers trained to watch for potential suicidal behavior on the 382 00:28:08,660 --> 00:28:10,160 part of some of these fans. 383 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,560 Brian, I'm told he's opening each ballot one at a time. 384 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,720 I'm told the room is very silent. 385 00:28:29,379 --> 00:28:33,760 I'm sorry, we have to interrupt you because we're beginning to hear a little 386 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,860 of audio coming from the courtroom. 387 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:38,660 The microphone's on. 388 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,880 Superior Court of the State of California, count one, verdict. 389 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,460 We, the jury in the above entitled case, find the defendant not guilty. 390 00:28:57,550 --> 00:28:58,810 Count two, verdict. 391 00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:01,270 Not guilty. Count 392 00:29:01,270 --> 00:29:09,050 three, 393 00:29:09,170 --> 00:29:12,870 verdict. Not guilty of a lewd act upon a minor child. 394 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,180 The clerk read it. Not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, not 395 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,320 not guilty, not guilty. 396 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:35,080 Not guilty on all 10 counts. 397 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,040 I always believed in him. I would not have came here if Michael Jackson was 398 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,860 guilty of these crimes. I believed in him, and I fought for him. 399 00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:46,760 Michael Jackson is now free. 400 00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:53,640 This case is over. This is an all -out vindication for Michael Jackson and his 401 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,640 supporters. 402 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:06,360 Michael got up, everyone congratulated everyone, didn't say a 403 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,920 word, turned around, and he walked out. 404 00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:20,740 There he is, the first look at Michael Jackson after his acquittal on 405 00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:21,920 all ten counts. 406 00:30:30,860 --> 00:30:35,420 Clearly, this jury did not buy that these people were telling the truth. 407 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:41,400 There's no doubt about it. The defense said this family, this mother, wanted to 408 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,400 ride the gravy train. 409 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:48,040 Jurors realize that, you know, in the celebrity land of Michael Jackson, 410 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,040 do get accused of things that they haven't done. 411 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:54,900 Your reaction to the news, Stacey? 412 00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:57,970 Well, Brian, I'm stunned. 413 00:30:58,410 --> 00:31:02,830 I really thought that there was going to be a couple of convictions there. 414 00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:04,490 He dodged a bullet. 415 00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:10,850 I truly felt that Michael Jackson was a child molester. 416 00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:16,970 I felt that then, and I haven't changed my mind now. But the problem was proving 417 00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:17,970 it. 418 00:31:19,010 --> 00:31:22,830 And the jury had a hard time believing the Arvizos. 419 00:31:27,470 --> 00:31:28,870 We got Gavin on the phone. 420 00:31:30,730 --> 00:31:33,030 And Gavin, poor Gavin. 421 00:31:33,550 --> 00:31:35,550 I just remember that voice. 422 00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:37,950 Why didn't they believe me? 423 00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:40,410 Why didn't they believe me? 424 00:31:53,910 --> 00:31:54,970 It was over. 425 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,900 We would talk about Michael going through the fire, or the book of Daniel. 426 00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:10,820 And I said, Michael, you are being tested by fire, Michael. 427 00:32:15,380 --> 00:32:20,200 As it turns out, this trial hurt him. 428 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,580 It hurt him badly. 429 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:33,240 He never went back to Neverland. 430 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,620 It was spoiled. It was ruined. It was defiled. 431 00:32:44,380 --> 00:32:46,980 It was no longer the place of dreams. 432 00:32:54,040 --> 00:33:00,360 So I think it was three days after the verdict, Michael got in his limousine. 433 00:33:00,990 --> 00:33:03,910 to LAX, to Bahrain. 434 00:33:07,890 --> 00:33:12,650 Michael Jackson turned up at a Bahrain shopping mall, hiding his face behind a 435 00:33:12,650 --> 00:33:16,190 veil and wearing a black robe traditionally worn by Middle Eastern 436 00:33:16,810 --> 00:33:21,590 He became what even his family described as a vagabond. 437 00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:28,650 Michael and his kid would go from place to place, anywhere he could find a home. 438 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,780 He was lost. Michael was lost. 439 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,960 Last night, his crown was looking distinctly tarnished. 440 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,520 Amid the adulation, the clear sound of booing. 441 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,080 Michael hated being hated. 442 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,340 He disliked being disliked. 443 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,480 He took it very personally. He was very fragile in that regard. He was used to 444 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,480 being loved. 445 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,340 But at that time, he really was... 446 00:33:58,930 --> 00:34:02,450 Very unhappy at how hated he felt. 447 00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:09,550 Michael Jackson finally came back to Las Vegas. 448 00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:15,350 But he was a broken man. 449 00:34:16,409 --> 00:34:19,290 There was tremendous financial problems. 450 00:34:19,770 --> 00:34:24,770 And also believed that his drug problems continued to mount. 451 00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:32,870 There were terrible reports I got that Michael was using medications. 452 00:34:34,370 --> 00:34:37,170 And the family staged an intervention. 453 00:34:38,650 --> 00:34:42,909 Well, no, no, no, I got this under control. I'm not addicted. 454 00:34:43,350 --> 00:34:46,949 I'm not, I go, whatever, Michael. I tried. I tried to. 455 00:34:52,350 --> 00:34:55,650 After the trial, Gavin was a different person. 456 00:34:55,989 --> 00:34:57,410 He was very different. 457 00:34:58,090 --> 00:34:59,430 He was subdued. 458 00:35:00,570 --> 00:35:02,130 I would take him out driving. 459 00:35:03,090 --> 00:35:08,170 We would just kind of process everything that had gone on. 460 00:35:09,610 --> 00:35:11,870 It just was tough. Things were tough. 461 00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:20,030 They had all changed their names to go back to school, but some 462 00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:23,450 of the Michael Jackson fans had discovered. 463 00:35:24,090 --> 00:35:27,670 their aliases and sort of outed them on MySpace. 464 00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:33,050 He became extremely depressed. 465 00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:40,010 It was very, very difficult for him to picture a life for himself. 466 00:35:53,210 --> 00:35:58,250 Michael believed that if he could perform again, that he would gain 467 00:35:58,250 --> 00:35:59,630 from his fans. 468 00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:08,110 Because his livelihood and his life was the stage. 469 00:36:13,350 --> 00:36:14,350 I love you. 470 00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:19,550 I really do. You have to know that. I love you so much. 471 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:33,420 We were. 472 00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:51,830 concerned that the phones were being disconnected. 473 00:36:52,810 --> 00:36:57,550 Mrs. Jackson had indicated at one point she hadn't spoken to him in 12 weeks. 474 00:36:58,410 --> 00:37:02,230 Every time she tried calling, the line was disconnected. 475 00:37:02,590 --> 00:37:04,890 Well, that's the same thing that was happening to us. 476 00:37:05,110 --> 00:37:10,310 But I don't think anybody really thought it was anything very sinister going on. 477 00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:25,170 My show, I want to say, I've never 478 00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:28,030 seen anything like this in my life. 479 00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:33,310 It's the greatest entertainment in the world. 480 00:37:35,350 --> 00:37:38,550 When I heard that, I was shocked. 481 00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:45,750 I'm like, that's pure bullshit. Somebody took a recording and put it on slow 482 00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:48,050 motion. That didn't even sound right. 483 00:37:55,150 --> 00:37:56,170 Okay, how old is he? 484 00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:58,090 He's 50 years old, sir. 485 00:37:58,950 --> 00:38:00,690 If he's unconscious, he's not breathing? 486 00:38:01,410 --> 00:38:02,730 Yes, he's not breathing, sir. 487 00:38:03,450 --> 00:38:04,450 Where's he at right now? 488 00:38:04,690 --> 00:38:08,230 He's on the bed, sir, but he's not responding to the CPR or anything. 489 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:18,180 I went to the emergency room, and inside the emergency room was the family. I 490 00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:21,220 saw them. I saw Mrs. Jackson. I saw Mr. Jackson. 491 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,380 And I was looking through the window, and they're in the background. They're 492 00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:29,780 pumping somebody's chest. 493 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:33,700 I said, oh, my. 494 00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:35,100 Oh, my. 495 00:38:38,830 --> 00:38:42,290 Michael Jackson is dead at the age of 50. 496 00:39:02,730 --> 00:39:06,830 What I felt was absolute infernal 497 00:39:08,740 --> 00:39:11,940 Rage. You stupid, stupid man. 498 00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:16,580 Michael, Michael, what have you done? You've orphaned your children. 499 00:39:17,980 --> 00:39:21,520 I think it took a few hours for the rage to wear off and then terrible grief set 500 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:22,520 in. 501 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,400 Are you afraid of death? 502 00:39:31,340 --> 00:39:32,340 Yes. 503 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,860 We all want to see what that other side look like, though, don't we? 504 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,620 Do you think there are children playing in heaven? 505 00:39:38,980 --> 00:39:41,980 Oh, God, I pray that that's what it's like. 506 00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:44,060 Like Adam and Eve, the way they're described. 507 00:39:44,420 --> 00:39:46,140 Yeah, like Adam and Eve. 508 00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:50,000 It's just a happy garden, a perfect, peaceful place. 509 00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:52,760 Just a pure innocence. 510 00:39:53,860 --> 00:39:55,680 I pray that it's like that. 511 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,720 Michael's favorite word with innocence. 512 00:40:04,620 --> 00:40:06,980 because Michael was robbed of that childhood innocence. 513 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,100 He said to me, I never had innocence. 514 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:17,140 My life has been a constant effort to reclaim lost innocence, like a return 515 00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:18,500 to Eden, a return to paradise. 516 00:40:27,530 --> 00:40:30,990 There is new global backlash tonight following the bombshell documentary, 517 00:40:31,410 --> 00:40:36,410 Leaving Neverland. The accusations made by Wade Robson, who's now 36, and James 518 00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:38,690 Safechuck, now 41, are quite similar. 519 00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:42,830 Both were befriended by Jackson when they were young boys, and both were 520 00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:45,810 to his Neverland ranch, where they claimed the abuse began. 521 00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:48,570 So what are you alleging that he actually did? 522 00:40:49,070 --> 00:40:52,790 He sexually abused me from 7 years old until 14. 523 00:40:53,730 --> 00:40:55,630 I've lived in silence. 524 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,340 and denial for 22 years and i can't spend another moment in that 525 00:41:01,340 --> 00:41:08,220 i was appalled i was shocked 526 00:41:08,220 --> 00:41:14,900 wade robson told the jury under penalty of perjury it didn't happen and then he 527 00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:21,740 does this film and says oh yeah it happened well the two don't jive it 528 00:41:21,740 --> 00:41:22,860 me that it's false 529 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,540 I have never seen the documentary, but I think these are cases of people coming 530 00:41:32,540 --> 00:41:38,120 out and saying horrible things long after anything is provable, when there's 531 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,120 lot of money at stake. 532 00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:44,240 The Michael Jackson I knew was a really, really sweet, kind -hearted person. 533 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,280 I don't know why I get so protective. 534 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,580 It doesn't make any sense. 535 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,280 Do you think he's innocent? 536 00:41:56,430 --> 00:42:00,710 After everything you've seen, do you feel that he's possibly innocent? 537 00:42:04,250 --> 00:42:09,410 The world will say what it will say, and perhaps only God knows the truth. 538 00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:14,590 Could I believe that he was a pedophile? 539 00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:18,450 Absolutely, categorically not. 540 00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:20,990 But how do you know? 541 00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:24,030 How do I know that he wasn't a pedophile? 542 00:42:24,650 --> 00:42:29,830 Oh, I don't know. I can only say based on all the evidence, all the trials, and 543 00:42:29,830 --> 00:42:34,210 my personal knowledge of him, he was absolutely incapable of harming a child. 544 00:42:36,690 --> 00:42:43,550 I remember him putting my hands on his head 545 00:42:43,550 --> 00:42:45,190 when he was down there. 546 00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:53,450 I'll never forget the feeling of his hair. 547 00:42:55,330 --> 00:43:00,130 The way they painted the picture of inappropriate behavior, sexual 548 00:43:00,290 --> 00:43:03,170 it moved me. I just thought, oh, my gosh. 549 00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:10,410 If you saw that documentary, you have to have some compassion for Wade and 550 00:43:10,410 --> 00:43:11,410 James. 551 00:43:11,730 --> 00:43:14,330 I think I was just kind of wincing. 552 00:43:15,010 --> 00:43:19,870 I was asking him not to do it, but he did it, and he said, oh, you'll like it. 553 00:43:22,190 --> 00:43:23,350 It was so powerful. 554 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,760 So powerful. I was as big a Michael Jackson fan as anyone. 555 00:43:28,660 --> 00:43:35,140 But that documentary showed how this man manipulated 556 00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:40,120 not just those boys, not just their family. 557 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,220 Michael manipulated the entire world. 558 00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:57,990 I believe that the outcome could have been different if Jimmy Safechuck and 559 00:43:57,990 --> 00:44:00,570 Robson had been able to talk about what had happened. 560 00:44:01,050 --> 00:44:02,950 But I don't blame them. 561 00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:05,390 I'm not angry. 562 00:44:05,590 --> 00:44:09,370 I may be a little frustrated, but I'm really not angry. I'm glad that they 563 00:44:09,370 --> 00:44:10,370 come forward now. 564 00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:12,910 I think it's helpful. It's helpful for Gavin. 565 00:44:13,370 --> 00:44:17,790 I think it's helpful for the rest of the country to understand what actually 566 00:44:17,790 --> 00:44:18,790 happened. 567 00:44:21,130 --> 00:44:23,070 A lot of folks did not. 568 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,700 want to believe Gavin. They wanted to believe their hero, their idol. 569 00:44:29,540 --> 00:44:36,240 We're talking about the king of pop, and we don't want to believe that 570 00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:40,220 such a phenomenal talent is dangerous. 571 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,340 We just don't want those two things in the same place. 572 00:44:44,140 --> 00:44:45,380 It's very difficult. 573 00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:50,280 I'll be the first one to tell you because... 574 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,800 I love his music. I love what he created. 575 00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:59,060 But Gavin, his story has never shifted. 576 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:05,360 And we would know by now if the reason they had done this was money. There's 577 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,720 been no exchange of money in regards to any of this for the Arvizo family. 578 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:16,820 So maybe we need to ask ourselves, is that body of work worth 579 00:45:16,820 --> 00:45:19,660 the price of... 580 00:45:21,530 --> 00:45:27,750 James, Wade, Gavin, is that a fair price? 581 00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:33,230 Gavin is doing extraordinarily well. 582 00:45:34,290 --> 00:45:39,170 I'm magnificently proud of him, but he's fought for it. 583 00:45:40,370 --> 00:45:41,470 He's fought hard. 584 00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:47,830 Yeah, it's hard to talk about. 585 00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:13,980 Support information for the issues raised can be found online at channel4 586 00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:19,900 A trophy hunter who tracked and killed a beloved lion living in a Zimbabwe 587 00:46:19,900 --> 00:46:20,900 national park. 588 00:46:21,020 --> 00:46:23,720 What's the story and why wasn't the killer charged? 589 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,440 Cecil, the lion and the dentist is new next Thursday at 10. 590 00:46:27,660 --> 00:46:32,120 Next tonight, a double -edged debate. The battle to stop the boats. 48914

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