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This programme contains some
strong language from the start
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and scenes which some viewers
may find disturbing
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The judge will be sat there.
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The jury's going to be over there.
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And the defendants,
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they're going
to be behind a screen there.
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But you won't be in here.
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You'll be in a separate room
with me.
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Can I go out for a fag, on the day?
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Course you can.
When there's a break.
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What if I need the toilet?
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GIGGLING: Have I got to hold it in?
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If you need to stop,
all you have to do is ask.
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Ruby is pregnant.
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13-year-old on the
Child Protection Register.
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Pregnant by a mid-30s man
with a family of his own.
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I can tell you his name,
his address, his licence plate.
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'We can get convictions here,
Maggie,
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'if we can re-engage the girls.'
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So, you want me to help you?
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Yeah, we do. You never helped me.
Why would I do that?
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If a jury's not going
to believe her?
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Why are we making that assumption?
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'Holly was fully aware that this
would be the outcome.
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'She'll be in foster care
while we assess the situation.'
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I can't do no more.
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You can.
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They're not using Amber,
but they're going to use Ruby.
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I'm not using anyone.
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'Nine not-guilty pleas.
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'Which means
nine cross-examinations,
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'which means
nine different barristers
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'telling these girls that every word
they're saying is a lie.'
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Are they up to it?
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Bye.
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Bye.
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It is mad there.
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What is?
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Court!
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But I won't be in
the actual court on the day,
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I'll be in a room on me own.
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YASMIN BABBLES
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Come on.
44
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Let's go and get some
of Nana's cake.
45
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Mmm.
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SHE CHUCKLES
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It's all about supporting me
through the process.
48
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,400
Well, that's what the copper kept
on saying.
49
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And I can go out for a fag, too.
50
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,680
If they didn't want me
to be a witness,
51
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,360
why did they, like,
beg me to do in first place?
52
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I don't want her doing it.
53
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It's her saying she don't want all
them interviews going to waste.
54
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Mine did. Months of them.
55
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Do you know what?
I really, really, really...
56
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don't give a fuck.
57
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CROCKERY CLATTERS
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I thought I'd see Hell freeze over
before this got to trial.
59
00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,680
Today's going to be
about swearing in the jury
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00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,840
and Rachel,
our prosecution barrister,
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standing up and outlining our case.
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Holly, you're the first witness for
the Crown,
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00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,360
so you'll be called first.
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00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,840
So, depending on what gets
done today,
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00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,840
in all likelihood
you'll be going in
66
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,120
to start giving
your evidence tomorrow.
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00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,040
We'll need to phone Suzanne.
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Who's Suzanne?
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00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,200
I have to do stuff.
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00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,400
Go to AA meetings and that
to get Ella back.
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00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,120
They write it down if you miss one.
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You're not going to see any of them.
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You know that, don't you?
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It'll all be by video link
and you're just going to carry on
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doing what you've been doing
for years.
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Telling the truth.
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And those 12 ordinary men and women
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are going to believe you.
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Right.
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I'll see you bright
and early tomorrow.
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ANGRY SHOUTING
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Scum! Paedo!
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ALL SHOUT
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MAN: Get back to your own country!
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You're going down, you Paki bastard!
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He's the Paki bastard who brought
the prosecution, you dickhead.
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SHOUTING
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Cheers, but don't call me
a "Paki bastard" again. Sorry.
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CLERK: All rise.
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It's started.
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It's on BBC website.
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00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,840
Front page of
Manchester Evening News. Jim.
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Let's keep busy today, eh?
94
00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:41,160
Fancy going down the shops
for a few bits and bobs?
95
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:42,760
I might just go upstairs.
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00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,280
Holly Winshaw is now 19.
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00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,040
At the start of the time period
with which you are concerned,
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00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,520
she was 15 years old,
99
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,320
and at the end of that period,
she was 17.
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00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,960
Ruby Bowen is now 16.
101
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,520
Her 13th birthday was two days
before the start
102
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,200
of the indictment period,
103
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,760
and at the end of that period,
she was 15.
104
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,720
You will hear evidence about these
girls' personal circumstances
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00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,760
and their behaviour.
106
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,080
Holly Winshaw had fallen out
with her parents
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00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,600
and was mostly living away from home
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00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,200
when the sexual exploitation
of her began.
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00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,040
Ruby Bowen had had a difficult
and troubled childhood
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00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,040
and has a number of problems
as a result.
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00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,360
You will have to decide,
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00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,920
having heard their
own descriptions of themselves
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00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,080
and the descriptions
of other people,
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00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,760
whether their characters
and their behaviour
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00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,840
makes them unreliable witnesses
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00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,160
as some of the defendants may say.
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00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,000
Or whether as the prosecution say,
it simply confirms
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that they were exactly
the sort of children
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who were easy to identify,
target and exploit
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00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,120
for the sexual gratification
of these men.
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00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,800
'Amber Bowen, the older sister
of Ruby Bowen, is now 19.
122
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,520
'The prosecution will argue
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00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,080
'that she's an important person
in this case.
124
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,040
'She was also having sex
with adult men
125
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,920
'and getting food and alcohol
for doing so,'
126
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,680
but she moved on to playing
an active role in helping men -
127
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,480
including some of these defendants -
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00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,800
to sexually exploit
the other girls.
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00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,240
That, ladies and gentlemen,
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is the outline of the prosecution
case that we'll put before you,
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00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,720
starting with the first witness,
Holly Winshaw, tomorrow morning.
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00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,120
QUIET MURMURS
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Hiya.
134
00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:00,960
Is she ready?
135
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,440
I can't say she is, no.
136
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,200
Do you want to...?
137
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,880
JULIE: She won't get dressed.
I'm sorry.
138
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,080
Hiya.
139
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,920
Have you had any breakfast?
140
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,200
Well, I've not.
141
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,720
What are we having?
142
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,200
Bacon butty.
143
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:40,600
Two of them, then, please, Julie.
144
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,640
The whole bloody country's
waiting on this trial...
145
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,440
..and she's up there having a
lie-in! Nina knows what she's doing.
146
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,640
No point pushing her
until she's ready.
147
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,400
ALL SHOUT
148
00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:12,080
Where is she?
149
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,160
Worth giving Nina a ring?
150
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,640
Andrew Norfolk, from The Times.
151
00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,040
Looks like the first witness hasn't
turned up. I'll phone back later.
152
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,000
Andrew,
every time I open The Times,
153
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,280
there's your by-line on grooming.
154
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,760
It's a big story. Is it?
155
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,680
Is it a big story?
Or does it just seem that way
156
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,440
because there's so much reporting
on it?
157
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:45,800
You must admit, it's a gift for
the BNP and all that lot out there.
158
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,920
"Innocent white victims",
"dark-skinned abusers".
159
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,640
It's uncomfortable, isn't it?
160
00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:52,440
I just don't see what it achieves.
161
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,520
PROTESTERS SHOUT OUTSIDE
162
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She's here.
163
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,840
LOUD, ANGRY SHOUTS
164
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Ignore them, ignore them,
ignore them and ignore them.
165
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,040
QUIET MURMURS
166
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,080
Take a seat.
167
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,680
They need to hear you,
but they don't need to see you.
168
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,360
Would you like a curtain?
169
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,720
No.
170
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,920
Hello, Holly.
171
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,520
Can you see and hear me?
172
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:57,880
Yes.
173
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,360
OK, that's a good start.
174
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,840
The usher should help you
to swear an oath.
175
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,280
Has that been explained to you?
176
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,600
Er, rather than gestures, Holly,
177
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,840
you'll have to speak words
for ease of the transcribers.
178
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,320
Yeah.
179
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,960
"I swear, by Almighty God,
that the evidence I shall give
180
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,720
"shall be the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth."
181
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,840
Members of the jury,
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00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,640
the prosecution will now present
its evidence in chief,
183
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,680
which takes the form
of recorded interviews
184
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,360
with the witness, Holly Winshaw.
185
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,480
'Now do you understand what it is
186
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,960
'that you've come to speak
to me about today?
187
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,040
'Yeah.
188
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,360
'OK, and what do you think
that's about?
189
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,600
'About what happened at, um...
190
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,320
'with...the men...at Top Curry.
191
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,640
'About what happened
with the men at Top Curry.
192
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,080
'OK. Obviously,
I've got to ask you some questions
193
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,800
'about what they actually
did to you during the sex, OK?
194
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:21,880
'It hurt.
195
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,640
'Because I didn't want to do it.
196
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,040
'Tariq started taking us places.
197
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,320
'He started picking us up and...
198
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,560
'..Amber thought
that he was her boyfriend.
199
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,160
'So, what did you think was going
to happen when he picked you up?
200
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,040
'I didn't actually know
he was taking us to have sex.
201
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,120
'He said, "Don't cry" and he said,
"You're beautiful".
202
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,440
'NINA: And so, when he got
on top of you,
203
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:56,920
'what was you doing?
204
00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,920
'I were trying to move...
205
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,600
'..but I just gave up.
206
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,960
'Because what was the point
in trying?
207
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,080
SHE SNIFFLES
208
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,000
'And what did you think
about the fact
209
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,280
'that it started then
with different men?
210
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,000
'I weren't even bothered any more.
211
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,320
'Right, what do you mean by that?
212
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,440
'I didn't feel anything about it.
213
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,320
'Why do you think you felt
like that?
214
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,800
'Because it had been going on
for so long.'
215
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,160
I want to ask you
some questions today
216
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,760
on behalf of Shabir Ahmed,
217
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,880
who you were introduced to
by a nickname
218
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,960
Before I ask you about
what you say Daddy did,
219
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,120
I want to ask you something
about your background.
220
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,520
What caused the big falling out
you had with your parents,
221
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,880
in around June 2008?
222
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,520
I didn't really stick to the rules.
223
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,840
And you were going out with a gang
of girls at night, were you not?
224
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,040
Yeah.
225
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,000
You were free
226
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,160
Getting free booze.
227
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,400
So, alcohol and money?
228
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,280
Yeah.
229
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,920
And then, mocking them.
230
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,720
Creating problems in
Speedy Kebab and Top Curry?
231
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,160
I wouldn't say that
I was creating problems.
232
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,880
Was there not a crowd of you
that was going to Speedy Kebab,
233
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,880
drunk and loud
234
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,560
and behaving very badly?
235
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,640
There's wasn't a crowd of us.
236
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,520
There was about two or three
at a time
237
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,480
and it was the men in
the takeaway shop
238
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,720
that bought us the alcohol
to get drunk on.
239
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,400
I want you to understand
that I am going to be suggesting
240
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,120
that Daddy never gave you
or bought you
241
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,400
any alcohol at all
over that period or any other time.
242
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,520
That is the truth of the matter,
is it not?
243
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:14,840
No.
244
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,800
You told the police that
when he was trying to rape you,
245
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,560
you were trying to,
246
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,920
"like, laugh it off,
giggling and saying no."
247
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:32,960
Is that right?
248
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,560
Well, yeah.
249
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,280
I was trying to say no in, like,
250
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,600
a giggly way.
251
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,880
Because I didn't want to say it
in, like, a stern way, cos...
252
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,600
..I didn't want to offend him.
253
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,760
And I was scared.
254
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,680
Because if I said it,
like, nastily to him,
255
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,240
I didn't know what he would do,
so I just, like...
256
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,320
SHE SNIFFLES
257
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,120
But he just didn't stop.
258
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,120
Have you got a tissue there, Holly?
259
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,240
Thanks.
260
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,000
Had you not tried to shout for help
261
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,280
if this was happening?
You were being raped.
262
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,120
I didn't want to say anything
because I was scared.
263
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,000
This incident did not happen,
did it, Holly?
264
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,240
Yeah, it did.
265
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,200
You say that you were shouting,
"Get off me"? Yeah.
266
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,720
It could not have been the case
267
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,880
that what you were
actually shouting was,
268
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,040
"Tell that bastard
to give me my money"?
269
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,360
No.
270
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,920
No, because that would suggest,
would it not,
271
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,640
that what you were upset about
272
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,320
was not being paid,
rather than the sex.
273
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:07,720
Do you remember calling my client
a "Paki bastard"?
274
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,400
I wouldn't.
275
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,160
I wouldn't say something like that.
276
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,400
I suggest to you, Miss Winshaw,
that at the time of these events,
277
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,240
your life was a bit of a mess,
was it not?
278
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,480
You were out getting drunk
regularly, were you not? Yeah.
279
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,960
And you had been in
so many different places
280
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,600
on so many different nights
with so many different men,
281
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,160
that you simply made a mistake,
282
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,200
did you not? No.
283
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,880
Can you describe the man you call
"Tiger" to me, Holly.
284
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,400
You said, "He's Asian, obviously.
285
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,920
"He's got, like,
a side parting in his hair.
286
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,440
"Like a lot of them, small."
287
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,600
I think that's his height you're
talking about there, is it not?
288
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,520
CHUCKLING AND MURMURING
289
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:05,520
Not long to go now.
You're doing great.
290
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,600
Just hold your nerve. One more day.
291
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,000
CHEERING
My lovely girls!
292
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,680
'You're beautiful.
293
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,760
'When you going to let me
have sex with you?
294
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:37,960
'I'm not.'
295
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,720
You're going with him.
296
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,320
You're going with him.
297
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,760
Holly, you're going with him. No...
298
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,480
I'm the barrister for Abdul Aziz.
299
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,880
Who you knew as "Tariq".
300
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,120
Of all the girls that you knew who
were conducting that sort of
lifestyle,
301
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,560
without doubt,
you were the prettiest.
302
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,000
You're much prettier
than Amber,
303
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,200
are you not?
304
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,280
MURMURING
305
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,120
Yes. Well, I will...
306
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,320
HE CLEARS HIS THROAT
307
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:02,320
..spare your blushes, and we can
deal with this in a different way.
308
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:05,320
Amber Bowen.
309
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,520
Now, she was the one who
introduced you
310
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,360
to this...lifestyle
that you complain of?
311
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,880
Yeah. She was.
She was the one who introduced you
312
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,680
to the men that
you complain of, yes? Yeah.
313
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,800
She was the one who was getting
payments
314
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,840
for the men that you
make these complaints against?
315
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,640
Yeah, she was,
but some of them were getting...
316
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,720
..some of the men were
getting payments, as well.
317
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:34,960
So, in the scheme of things,
318
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,800
Amber was worse than the men
that you accuse,
319
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,560
and at any rate,
she was no less culpable
320
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,080
than the men that you accuse?
321
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:46,880
How do you mean? She was
at least as bad as they were?
322
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:47,960
In some ways.
323
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,040
In other ways, they were worse.
324
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,800
If I've understood your evidence
correctly, Holly, is that...
325
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,640
..you would go to an address
326
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,840
knowing that sex was about to
take place, sex would take place.
327
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,160
Amber would collect money.
328
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,280
Tariq would be called,
he would collect you and Amber,
329
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,200
and money would be given to Tariq.
Is that what happened?
330
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,520
Yeah. Yes.
331
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,720
So, it was Amber who was
controlling the arrangement.
332
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,320
It was Amber who was arranging sex.
333
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:22,640
It was Amber who
was arranging transport.
334
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,320
I think it were both of them
together. And that is because...?
335
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,400
Because if it was just her doing it,
why would she give him the money?
336
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,720
The reality is this,
is it not, Holly?
337
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:41,040
That you feel profoundly very
guilty about what's gone on.
338
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,120
I don't feel guilty
because I didn't do anything wrong.
339
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,720
It may just be that I've read
your evidence badly,
340
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,360
but you do say, at a number
of places,
341
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,680
that you feel guilty...
342
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,320
..because you
didn't stand up for yourself.
343
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,320
Did not defend your corner.
344
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,840
Yeah, I didn't.
345
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,000
I feel ashamed.
346
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,160
And I feel angry
that I didn't try more.
347
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,920
Because, obviously, at my age,
a few years later...
348
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,240
..if something like that
were to happen again,
349
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,040
I would do everything in my power
350
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,360
to make sure
it wouldn't happen again.
351
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,840
NOW you feel ashamed.
352
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:35,800
Guilty for what's gone on, yes?
353
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,840
I don't feel guilty, I feel ashamed.
354
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,720
And you've been the subject,
over the years,
355
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,920
of ridicule for this lifestyle
that you entered with Amber.
356
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,160
People were calling you names.
357
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,880
And this is a way, really of just
cleansing all of that.
358
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,520
Of saying to them,
"Well, you know what,
359
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,600
"in fact, I've got nothing to be
ashamed of, because I was raped."
360
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,440
That's what this is really all
about, is it not?
361
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,000
I don't care about them.
362
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,400
I don't care about what people say.
363
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,680
It's four years later now.
364
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,080
Four years.
365
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,680
I've got a daughter.
366
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,160
I've got a life.
367
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,920
I...don't need "cleansed".
368
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,560
I want justice.
369
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,600
HE EXHALES
370
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,600
Do I look all right?
371
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,960
Really nice.
372
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,520
Proper smart.
373
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,800
I'm going to go wait in 'ere. OK.
374
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,440
Police'll be here in five minutes.
375
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,360
Why don't you go for a walk
round the block
376
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,920
if you don't want to see them.
I don't care.
377
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,040
It's just going to make you angry.
378
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,400
It'll upset you, and that'll upset
her. No, it won't.
379
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,960
I don't care if they've decided
380
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,640
I'm not a good enough, like,
victim or whatever.
381
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,560
Cos I'm a good mum.
382
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:45,560
I'm actually good.
383
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,640
And that's where my head's going.
384
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,560
Not on all this
that happened years ago.
385
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,360
YASMIN GURGLES
386
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,760
SHE CHUCKLES
387
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,800
ANGRY SHOUTING
388
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,960
SILENCE
389
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,840
MURMURING
390
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,200
CLERK: All rise.
391
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,440
MAGGIE, ON CLIP: 'Go on, Ruby.
392
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,120
'They pass you around like a ball.
393
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,360
'Um...
394
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,400
'They, like, get your number,
and then, there's like...
395
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,920
'..50 people you don't know
ringing you.
396
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,280
'What do you mean, Ruby?
"They pass you around like a ball"?
397
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,400
'Um...
398
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,400
'They'd, like, be in a flat
399
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,840
'in...in a massive circle...
400
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,480
'..and then, they put
the white girl in the middle.'
401
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,000
White girl in the middle...
402
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,320
'And then you'd get sent off
with one of them.
403
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,280
'And then, when you come back,
404
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,040
'you just...
405
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,440
'just get passed and passed again.'
406
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,480
Passed and passed again...
Passed and passed...
407
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,880
'And where was the flat?'
408
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,640
Passed and passed...
409
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,120
'There weren't one.
410
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,600
'There were loads.'
411
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,400
There weren't one...
There were loads...
412
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,200
There were loads...
413
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,360
There were loads...
414
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,440
Ruby, can you see me all right?
Yeah.
415
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,120
And can you hear me OK?
416
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,400
Yes.
417
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320
I am the barrister who is helping
the man that you call Billy,
418
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,960
and I'd like to ask you some
questions for him, please.
419
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,840
Now, you told us that you were in
a relationship with Billy
420
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,000
for a few months and that
he was your boyfriend, yes?
421
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,240
Yes.
422
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,560
And that you told him you were 16?
423
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,160
Yeah.
424
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,040
And as time went on, you felt like
you were in love with him,
425
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,400
did you not?
426
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,280
Um...
427
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,480
You're nodding.
428
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,360
And did it seem like he really
liked you a lot, as well?
429
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:45,480
Yeah.
430
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,760
Now then, when you have talked about
when you have been with Billy,
431
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,360
and you have had sex with him,
you have talked about
432
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,920
cuddling up with him,
433
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,960
having a laugh and having nice sex,
have you not?
434
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Yeah.
435
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:12,240
And that Billy, he was different
from the other men that you met,
436
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,840
because you told us,
the other men, they were...
437
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,680
..one-night stands,
438
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,040
whereas Billy,
439
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,080
he was a proper boyfriend, yes?
440
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Um...
441
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,440
Yeah.
442
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,360
I have no more questions.
443
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,520
QUIET MURMURS
444
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,640
Ruby!
445
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,600
You met Ruby Bowen before your
son was born, is that right?
446
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,040
Yes.
447
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,000
And you had a sexual relationship
with her from October 2008,
448
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,800
is that right? Yes.
449
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,800
Two photographs in the jury
bundle were taken
450
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,880
when Ruby Bowen was in Year 9.
451
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,280
That is the girl with whom you had
a sexual relationship, is it not?
452
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,280
I don't deny the fact,
from looking at the picture,
453
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,280
that that's the same girl.
454
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,560
These photographs were taken
when she was 13 and 14.
455
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,160
Are you seriously saying
to this jury
456
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,320
that you thought she
was 20 to 25 years old?
457
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,200
Mr Ahmed,
do you deny all of the allegations?
458
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,000
I deny everything.
459
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,480
But you accept,
as you've told this jury,
460
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,920
that the forensic evidence has your
semen on those items of underwear?
461
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,160
HE GRUNTS
462
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,320
Where did Holly Winshaw
get your semen from?
463
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,360
I had a sexual relationship
with Amber,
464
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,400
and, if Amber took a condom,
465
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,800
this Winshaw girl,
466
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,680
very clever,
very sharp, intelligent,
467
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,320
knows everything,
468
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,080
who knows what she did.
469
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,640
Why would Holly fabricate
evidence against you?
470
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,000
They get into
this business together.
471
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,880
They decide on this joint
venture together
472
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,320
and they carry it out very well.
473
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,960
They're making a lot of money,
474
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,120
and then she falls
out with Amber, and...
475
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,880
It's very nice
and very easy for policemen,
476
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,360
because they want to climb
the ladder of their career.
477
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,120
Fuck the Pakistanis.
478
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,960
Mr Ahmed, can we stick to...? No.
479
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,080
No, we can't.
480
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,680
Where are your white people?
481
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,680
They train them in sex,
482
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,320
they train them in drinking
from very young age,
483
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,720
and then, when they come to us, by
that time, they're fully trained.
484
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,040
You should look in mirror.
485
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,160
Look at yourself first.
486
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,520
Look at your community.
487
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,800
Where's school?
488
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,080
Where's Social Services?
489
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,960
Where is everybody else?
490
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,120
MURMURING
491
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,520
You're lovely with her.
492
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,400
How do you see your future together?
493
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,840
I'd like to go to college.
494
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,600
I'd like to move away from Rochdale.
495
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,320
Does that feel achievable?
496
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,600
Yeah.
497
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,800
We'll not keep you in suspense
any longer, Holly.
498
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,120
We're going to keep
the care order in place,
499
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,000
but we'll have joint
responsibility with you.
500
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,400
What does that mean?
501
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,720
Ella's going to be coming
home to you.
502
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,160
We want it to be
a smooth transition for her,
503
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,840
so we'll liaise
with the foster family
504
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,240
and start making arrangements
next week.
505
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,040
SHE SNIFFLES
Sorry.
506
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,240
You've worked really hard, Holly.
507
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,440
We've got every confidence in you.
508
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,000
In a complex case like this one,
509
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,840
where we'd expect the jury
to be out for some weeks,
510
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,760
this briefing is an opportunity
for members of the press
511
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,600
to ask any questions that may have
arisen during trial.
512
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,960
Yep, over here, yep.
513
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,240
Why didn't the CPS prosecute
this case in 2008
514
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,120
when Holly Winshaw first
went to the police?
515
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,760
At that time, it was considered
516
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,480
that there was an unrealistic
prospect of conviction.
517
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,320
What changed?
518
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,200
The key evidence used in this
trial, you had in 2008.
519
00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:12,320
The perpetrators were allowed
to continue offending
520
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:13,760
for a further two years.
521
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,000
Why did the CPS drop the case?
522
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,280
Was there an issue around the
ethnicity of the perpetrators?
523
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,680
There was an issue around the
witness, not the perpetrators.
524
00:34:23,720 --> 00:34:25,680
What happened is that, initially,
525
00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:30,360
a CPS lawyer formed the view that
the witness would not be credible.
526
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,520
That's why the case
didn't progress to court.
527
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,160
I came here last year
and I reversed that decision.
528
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,720
I looked at it afresh
529
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,080
and I formed a different view.
530
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,920
That she was ABSOLUTELY credible.
531
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,520
Mr Afzal, would you say that
Holly Winshaw was betrayed?
532
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,440
I have no difficulty in
apologising to her.
533
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,880
She was let down
by the whole system
534
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,600
and we were part of that system.
535
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,920
MURMURING
536
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,400
VEHICLE APPROACHES
537
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,400
They're here! They're here!
Holly! Holly, come quick!
538
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:21,840
They're here!
539
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,880
She decided to dress herself
this morning...
540
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,960
..in case you're wondering
why she's got on that hat.
541
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,760
Mummy.
542
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,000
Mummy...
543
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,960
Will the foreman please stand?
544
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,920
Have the jury reached
a verdict on any count?
545
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:04,960
Yes.
546
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,920
On the charge of trafficking
within the United Kingdom
547
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,280
for sexual exploitation,
548
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,400
do you find the defendant,
Shabir Ahmed,
549
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,160
guilty or not guilty?
550
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,280
Guilty.
551
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,000
You're a biased jury!
552
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,720
Racist!
553
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,480
On the charge of rape of a child,
554
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,600
do you find the defendant,
Shabir Ahmed, guilty or not guilty?
555
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:28,760
Guilty.
556
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,760
Ya bastard! YA BASTARD!
557
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,640
Take him to the cells.
558
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,760
Get off me!
559
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,840
Get your hands off me!
560
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,440
Get off me!
561
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,840
Kabeer Hassan?
562
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:45,840
On the count of rape of a child,
563
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,000
do you find the defendant
guilty or not guilty?
564
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,400
Guilty.
565
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,080
Abdul Rauf?
566
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,320
Guilty.
567
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,760
Mohammed Sajid?
568
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,520
Guilty.
569
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,320
Mohammed Amin?
570
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,360
Guilty.
571
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,120
Adil Khan?
572
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,320
On the count of conspiring to engage
in sexual activity with a child?
573
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,280
Do you find the defendant guilty
or not guilty? Guilty.
574
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,480
Abdul Aziz?
575
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,680
On the count of trafficking
within the United Kingdom
576
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:18,800
for sexual exploitation.
577
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,720
Do you find the defendant
guilty or not guilty?
578
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,560
Guilty.
579
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,600
On the count of rape of a child.
580
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,360
Do you find the defendant guilty
or not guilty?
581
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,160
Guilty.
582
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,760
MOBILE RINGS
583
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,320
Would you watch Ella for me?
584
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,600
CHILDREN CHATTER
585
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:45,600
All right?
586
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,880
SARA: 'All right?'
587
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,480
Dunno, yet. Depends what you're
going to say next.
588
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,520
'I'm going to say guilty.
589
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,400
'Every single one of them
involved with you.
590
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,040
'Guilty.'
591
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,840
You there?
592
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,120
Look to your right.
593
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,880
I called your house.
Your mum said you were here.
594
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,520
You can't take it in, can ya?
595
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:15,960
SHE SIGHS
596
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,600
Neither can I.
597
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,160
I don't feel anything.
598
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,880
You will do. You'll be bathing Ella
or making some pasta,
599
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,640
I don't know, watching telly...
600
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:28,600
..and it's going to hit ya.
601
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,760
Like, "Fuck,
this actually happened"?
602
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,720
No, like,
"Fuck, I actually did this".
603
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,280
It were you, Holly.
604
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,880
It were you speaking up again
and again and again to me
605
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,600
and to your dad and to the police
606
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,960
and holding your own
against nine bloody barristers!
607
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:51,120
It were you.
608
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,000
19 years.
609
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,440
Shabir Ahmed...
610
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,600
19 years...
611
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,560
HE SOBS
Sorry.
612
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,440
I'm sorry.
613
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,680
I had all these ideas about you...
614
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,520
..since you were that high.
615
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,320
What you were going to be,
616
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,240
what you were going to do
and all that.
617
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,600
And how people would say,
618
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,000
"Oh, Jim's daughter,
yeah, the smart one.
619
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,080
"She's gone on to do this,
that and the other." Jim!
620
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,560
But seeing you do...
621
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,200
..what you've done
622
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,000
over them months in court.
623
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,120
Finding the strength
to do what you did in there...
624
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,600
..after everything
you've been through,
625
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,720
after everything
that's happened to you.
626
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,640
That's the proudest moment
of my life.
627
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,800
I have got so much respect for you.
628
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,240
I take my hat off to you.
629
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,080
HE SOBS
630
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,600
You are so messy. I'm going to get
a cloth to wipe that up.
631
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,800
'This has been a fantastic result
for British justice.
632
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,440
'These victims have been through
the most horrendous of crimes
633
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,680
'and I just want to commend
their bravery
634
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,000
'in relation to the ordeal
they've had to go through.
635
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,520
'A long number of weeks in court
636
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,440
'and they've had to go through
a lot of trauma.
637
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,840
'I would also like to thank
my officers
638
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,720
'for the professionalism
and dedication they have shown
639
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,640
'in a very complex inquiry.
640
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,520
'This is the first time in
UK history
641
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,120
'that we've had trafficking
within the UK.'
642
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,760
I've gone down
60% since the verdict.
643
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,520
Cos people would rather wait for
a white driver than get in me cab.
644
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,000
That's why we set up this group.
645
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,920
To bring the people
of Rochdale together.
646
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,480
This is a great place to live
647
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,440
and it's time, now, to focus
on the positive.
648
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,080
People in the community must have
known was what going on.
649
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,960
Are you saying that I knew about
this? No, what I'm saying is...
650
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,480
Cos, believe me, if I had, I'd have
rounded 'em up meself
651
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,640
and took 'em down to police
station meself.
652
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,600
You see the people who won't get in
your cab now, that's just racist.
653
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,240
That's them saying that
all Pakistanis are the same.
654
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,560
Ethnicity is not an issue here.
655
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,680
It's not an issue. It's a fact.
656
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:41,480
The vast majority of sex
offenders are white male.
657
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,520
90% are British white males
acting on their own.
658
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,480
But in this particular type
of crime, on-street grooming
659
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,600
of vulnerable girls,
it's overwhelmingly
660
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,680
British-Pakistani men
acting together.
661
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:57,880
Right, and that's
my responsibility, is it?
662
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,440
Cos I'm a British
663
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,200
Are white people
ever asked to account
664
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,480
for the deviant behaviour
of other white people?
665
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,040
No.
666
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,640
It isn't about whether the guys
that did it are Pakistani.
667
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,760
It's what the hell was a 13-year-old
girl doing in that flat?
668
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,200
You're blaming the victim.
669
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,640
That victim could have been your
sister or your daughter.
670
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,400
No. Cos my sister or my daughter -
our daughters -
671
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,000
aren't hanging about on street
corners in short skirts
672
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,880
with their chests hanging out.
673
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,400
They were in trackie bottoms, these
girls were in school uniform.
674
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,000
These men had disgusting attitudes
to women.
675
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,520
Not just white women. ALL women.
676
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,560
That is a tiny, tiny proportion
of British-Pakistanis. I know.
677
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,120
But as long as that attitude
exists at all, here,
678
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,520
in Rochdale, in our community,
679
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,960
there'll be repercussions
for all of us.
680
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,880
MURMURS
681
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,240
RADIO: 'Now as you may have
heard in the news,
682
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,600
'the Rochdale Borough Safeguarding
Children Board
683
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,960
'has published its report
this morning
684
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,680
'on the catalogue of failures
in the police and Social Services
685
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:06,680
'which led to the continued grooming
and rape of a number of girls.
686
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,000
'The report is very clear
about the failings
687
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,520
'from all the
organisations involved
688
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,440
'with the young people.
There was more
689
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,120
'that could and should have been
done to protect them.
690
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,680
'But The Guardian reports this
morning
691
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:24,200
'that 83 referrals were made by
a worried NHS Sexual Health Team,
692
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:28,240
'who had obviously seen these girls.
693
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,160
'Why were they ignored
and why are they not in your report?
694
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,000
'When professionals
have got concerns
695
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,520
'and they're not getting the
response that they need,
696
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,920
'there is a board policy that
says it should be escalated
697
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,280
'within their own organisation
and within social care
698
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,840
'and that wasn't done
satisfactorily, obviously.'
699
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:45,960
DOOR SLAMS
700
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,080
What's the matter with you?
701
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,080
Driving in, just heard someone
702
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,880
from Rochdale Council Safeguarding
Children on the radio...
703
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,800
Saying what?
Have they "learnt lessons"?
704
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,360
Have they "been on a journey"?
705
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,760
There's no spin on earth
that they can put on this
706
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,760
to make themselves look good.
707
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,400
TEARFULLY: They're saying...
708
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,040
we never shared information...!
709
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,720
STUNNED SILENCE
710
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,120
What?
711
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,800
We didn't "escalate our concerns".
712
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,600
They're saying they didn't know
713
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,320
because we didn't tell them.
714
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,400
No way.
715
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,840
No way is this happening.
716
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,760
Management's not going to bat
for us.
717
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,040
She's saying,
"Oh, don't worry about it, Sara,
718
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,160
"the truth will come out at
some point."
719
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,560
SHE SIGHS
720
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,480
Right. We're going to the union.
721
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,640
I feel like I'm going mad.
722
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,360
It's not you. It's everybody else.
723
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,160
That's what mad people think.
724
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:48,840
You do look a bit...
725
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,440
It's the hood.
Let's take the hood down.
726
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,760
I'm not cut out for this, you know?
727
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,320
Whistle-blowing.
728
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,080
Erin Brockovich in an anorak!
729
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,760
Erin Brockovich
could have done with an anorak.
730
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,440
Seven years.
731
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:13,360
I've been telling people
for seven years.
732
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,840
And even now,
they just don't want to know.
733
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,480
OFFICE BUSTLE
734
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,880
SHE KNOCKS
735
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,760
Sir.
736
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,560
I watched the ACC on the steps of
court tie it up in a bow.
737
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,520
Well, it was a very successful
operation, Maggie.
738
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,480
But that's not the whole story,
is it?
739
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:56,400
You can be sure that whatever
went on down in Rochdale in 2008
740
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,240
will be fully dealt with
by the IPCC.
741
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,320
Yeah, but I'm talking about 2005.
742
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,920
GMP has known that they have
a problem
743
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,920
with on-street grooming since 2005,
744
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,520
at least.
745
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,720
And, um, I know
746
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,720
because I was part of a...
747
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,960
of a scoping exercise in 2005
748
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,440
to see whether or not
749
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,000
we had a problem in Greater
Manchester with child grooming.
750
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,200
And it found that we did.
751
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:33,560
But nothing was done about it.
752
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,400
The investigation was dropped.
753
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,960
There were no arrests.
754
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,040
There were no prosecutions.
755
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,520
Sorry, Maggie.
756
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,280
Is that a question...
757
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:49,960
..or a grievance?
758
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,480
I'm not comfortable with what we're
claiming we knew and didn't know.
759
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:01,040
And I'm not comfortable with the way
we're treating victims.
760
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,360
I wasn't comfortable in 2005
and I'm not comfortable now.
761
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,720
Is this about Amber Bowen?
762
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,080
This is about the ethics of
subjecting vulnerable witnesses
763
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:17,320
to months of questioning and then
dropping them with no explanation,
764
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,600
and no further action
against anyone that they've named.
765
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,120
Amber Bowen
is a very particular case.
766
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,200
No. She wasn't.
767
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:29,920
She was a victim,
768
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,040
just like the other girls.
769
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,480
But no-one was ever arrested
770
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,680
or even interviewed in relation
to what they did to her.
771
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,040
Look, I know you've had this
explained to you many times before.
772
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,440
Yes, but not in a way that makes me
feel any better about the decision.
773
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,000
But I will go over it
with you again.
774
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,680
There was no way that girl
was going in the witness box.
775
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:04,600
CPS was absolutely clear about that
and it was their call to make.
776
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,400
But...
777
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,560
They then realised,
778
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,120
a little bit late in the day,
it must be said,
779
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,760
that they needed
the girl's evidence.
780
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,000
So, they had to find a tactical way
to introduce it at trial.
781
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,120
How do you use someone's evidence
if you don't call them as a witness?
782
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,840
By putting them on the indictment.
783
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,760
Amber was named as one of the
co-conspirators with the men.
784
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,200
WHAT?!
785
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:41,600
It was purely tactical, Margaret.
786
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,400
No-one was interested
in prosecuting her.
787
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,160
Does she know about this? Has anyone
even bothered to tell her?!
788
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,640
I'm sure she was kept
fully informed.
789
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,160
KNOCK AT DOOR
790
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,280
URGENT KNOCKING
All right!
791
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,480
What's all this?
Can you just take it?
792
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,640
Help me! What's happened?
793
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:13,880
What's wrong with you?
794
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,320
They're trying to take her. Who are?
Who's trying to take her?
795
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,560
Social Services. They called me in.
They're trying to get a court date.
796
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,040
Don't be soft,
they can't do that!
797
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,280
What for? You're a brilliant mum!
What they saying you've done?
798
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,880
They're not saying I've done owt.
799
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,320
They're saying there's
a risk that I could though.
800
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,360
As if I'd do anything to hurt her!
801
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,760
TEARFULLY: Why me, Mum?
Why is it always me?!
802
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,120
KNOCK AT DOOR
803
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,480
Don't open it, Mum. Don't!
It might be Ruby.
804
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,280
No, it's not Ruby. Ruby's got keys.
805
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,560
No, it is her. Please, Mum.
806
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,000
It's OK. All right. It's OK.
807
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,800
They've gone. They've gone.
808
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,920
KNOCKING AT DOOR
Lorna? It's Maggie. >
809
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,920
It's Margaret Oliver. Maggie. >
810
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,480
KNOCKING
811
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,200
What you doing?
812
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:19,680
Coming here? Now.
813
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:22,040
Didn't return me calls.
Didn't reply to me texts.
814
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:23,240
You promised all sorts.
815
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,240
TEARFULLY: Should've known
never to trust the police.
816
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:28,720
I'm not the police.
817
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,280
Then why you turning up here, then?
Cos no-one can tell me not to.
818
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,920
I've left GMP.
819
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,200
I've resigned.
820
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,920
I, um...
821
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,600
I...
SHE SIGHS
822
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,840
I don't know
what the police told you
823
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,920
about why you didn't get to
go to court. I don't care.
824
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,000
I don't give a shit about that now.
They didn't say nothing.
825
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,000
Just...they're using Ruby,
but they're not using her.
826
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,960
That decision,
I strongly disagreed with it.
827
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,440
But I got taken off the job
after that
828
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,480
and ordered not to have
any contact with you.
829
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,680
But at some point,
the powers that be decided that
830
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,120
though they weren't going
to call you as a witness,
831
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,320
they still needed
to be able to use your evidence.
832
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,200
And as a way of doing that,
833
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:25,760
you were named by the Crown
834
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,760
on one of the charges.
835
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,080
How do you mean?
836
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,440
The Crown listed you alongside
the men,
837
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:38,640
on charge of conspiracy to engage
in sexual activity with a child.
838
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:46,000
What that means...is that you
were as responsible as the men
839
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,440
for what happened to Holly and Ruby
and all the other girls.
840
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:57,880
So, they're calling me a rapist?
841
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,360
Is that what you're saying?
842
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,760
They're calling me a paedophile?
843
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,520
That's why this is happening.
844
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,240
Why what's happening?
845
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,200
Don't tell her.
Don't tell her nothing.
846
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:15,120
They're trying to take
Yasmin off her.
847
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,560
Why
848
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,040
Why? Course they want to take her
off me.
849
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,040
Not cos of owt I've done to her,
just cos of...
850
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:26,280
..me.
851
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:27,520
Who I am.
852
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,240
What's happened to me.
853
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:32,680
And they never could.
854
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,880
But now, I've been named
as a fucking sex offender,
855
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,240
I have got no chance.
Well, that's not going to happen.
856
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,880
First thing tomorrow, you're going
to go and get a solicitor.
857
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,000
And I'm going to come with you.
Why do you care?
858
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:47,240
Why are you even here?
859
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:50,680
Because I let you down.
860
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,960
I gained your trust and I promised
you things and...
861
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:02,000
..I betrayed you.
862
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,640
It was ME you trusted.
863
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,120
It was ME
you poured your heart out to.
864
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,240
And...
865
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,680
..I'm sorry.
866
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,040
Because that's not how you
treat people.
867
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,280
That's not why
I became a police officer.
868
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:24,600
And...
869
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,040
I...
870
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,320
I couldn't help you
as a police officer.
871
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,080
But, maybe, I can help you now. Why?
872
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,560
Because you need it.
873
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,240
And because you deserve it.
874
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:43,840
And...
875
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:50,720
When it all comes out...
876
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:54,760
..what's been done to girls
like you - and it will -
877
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,760
I want to look back and say
I was on the right side of it.
878
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,120
AMBER SOBS
879
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,920
Do you think the failure in
Rochdale was due to
880
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,320
incompetence or indifference?
881
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,120
This is a Select Committee, and
I know you will answer frankly,
882
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:44,240
Miss Rowbotham.
883
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,400
It was attitudes towards teenagers.
884
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,240
It was absolute disrespect
885
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,840
that vulnerable young people
did not have a voice.
886
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,840
That they were overlooked,
887
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,160
that they
were discriminated against
888
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,200
and they were treated appallingly
by protective services.
889
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,960
I think we need an absolute shift
890
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,960
in what constitutes
a reliable witness.
891
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,280
As I've already explained,
892
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,360
those young people
do not present
893
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,440
as clear-cut victims.
894
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,680
They don't clearly state,
"I am being abused."
895
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,000
They are absolutely entrenched
in a horrible set
896
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,120
of manipulation and coercion.
897
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,440
They are living in absolute fear,
898
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:43,040
so won't easily fit a box
that allows a judicial system
899
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:48,280
to easily see that this is
a child that is being abused.
900
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,520
ALL CHATTER AND LAUGH
901
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,160
ELLA SQUEALS
902
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:26,880
SHE LAUGHS
903
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,600
ALL CHUCKLE
904
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,720
ALL GIGGLE
67311
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