Original subtitles

Hello and welcome back to The Traitors: Uncloaked,

the official visualised podcast hosted by me, Ed Gamble.

Yes, you know what I'm about to say - spoiler warning!

If you haven't caught up with tonight's episode,

then go and do that right now on BBC iPlayer.

And I'm also happy to reveal that I can once again

play this sound.

SIREN WAILS

It's all over for Minah.

They have caught their third Traitor.

There's going to be so much to talk about on tonight's show,

so here's what's coming up.

The amazing Oti Mabuse,

Katherine Ryan

and chief Traitor hunter Jaz

from series two are joining us

to dissect tonight's episode.

Banished Traitor Minah and murdered Faithful Joe finally meet

after leaving the show, and Joe finds out who Minah really is.

And they'll both be joining us in the studio to discuss their time

in the Traitors' Castle.

APPLAUSE

Oti, Katherine, Jaz, welcome, welcome.

Now, we've got a huge amount to cover on this episode

of Uncloaked, so we're going to get straight into it. Mm-hm.

Let's have a look at where we left things in the Traitors' Turret.

♪ Oh, here she comes... ♪

This thought about Leanne is next level

because if Freddie's on board with this,

it makes Freddie look guilty,

and it will plant a route

to get me into the final

and to the glory.

Hmm.

Next-level gameplay from Charlotte,

I think. Yeah. She's playing 3D chess.

I love to see a woman over 30 puppeteering

a very handsome young man.

Let him take the fall.

I feel like he looks a bit lost in the Traitors' Turret.

Do we think Freddie's going to fall for this next-level

gameplay from Charlotte?

I don't think so. I think...

The moment it's revealed

what's going on with Leanne,

he'll kind of put the pieces together and just be like,

"Oh, she's set me up." Yeah.

"So I need to kind of go talk to the other ones."

And he's really close with Frankie.

Mm-hm. So together, they might... They might change things up.

But you do think he's going to fall

for this... this thing of trying to murder Leanne? Yes.

And then being dropped in it the next morning. You've got to listen.

Oti knows a lot because just a minute ago, Oti... I said,

"Oh, you know, maybe Charlotte should recruit Leanne.

"And I think that's going to keep it all women."

And Oti was like, "No, it's got to be Freddie. It's got to be now."

It's got to be now because everyone already suspects it to be Freddie.

Mm. Also, people think that there must be a man.

There must be a man! There must be a man!

There must be a man somewhere!

I mean, no way women can do this!

So...

So they're already going to go,

"He is the last man."

What I think is crazy, though, is

the fact that Charlotte

is just finessing it

early days. Yeah.

And don't forget, she's putting on a Welsh accent still.

She's put an enormous amount of pressure on herself,

and yet she's still making moves, like getting Minah out.

It is wild! Yeah!

And then, on top of that, she's just recruited the most soft, most...

You know, I just feel for Freddie.

I feel like we need to be in there to help him somehow.

I don't know how. Well, it's already been filmed, unfortunately, Jaz.

He just wants to go back.

It's over, Jaz. It's over!

But we should talk about it.

We lost a fantastic Traitor tonight.

I think because she was such a wholesome murderer.

You know, she really delighted in her kills. Yeah.

That lovely just smile that she had doing it.

You could see her really enjoying herself killing people,

but in a fun, family way.

But also, I think she had a journey in the beginning.

She's... You don't think that she has the murderous side in her.

She just got confident. And that, I think, is what gave her away.

It's the complacency, isn't it? Yeah.

You know, as soon as you start to get comfortable in that castle,

you are asking for trouble.

It's almost like the universe

doesn't like you to be comfortable in there. Mm.

And soon as she started to get into that role of being a Traitor,

making those comfortable moves, it was almost like, you know,

it was difficult for her, and I could just see it coming.

And then soon as... Oh, my God!

The worst person to recruit - Charlotte.

The worst person ever!

Yeah. Not as trusting as she looks. Why Charlotte?

It was a bad move. But I see where Charlotte was coming from,

in the sense that Traitors always turn on each other. Right?

Yes. Yep. She wasn't to know about this sisterhood thing that Minah

had established, which I think was genuine. It was genuine.

Minah genuinely wanted to get to the end with Charlotte,

which is why she picked her. She thought she could be good.

First thing Charlotte does...

Is kill her off.

I thought she should have gone for Leanne, actually.

They would have been so loyal together.

They would have been so powerful together.

But she didn't. Yeah.

Now, Freddie's reaction, when he is recruited, to discovering

that Charlotte is a Traitor -

absolutely priceless.

Let's remind ourselves of that.

Oh, no!

No way!

Charlotte!

There's no way!

I was completely shocked,

like, to the core.

She was the last person

I thought was a Traitor.

Did we enjoy the full body twirl?

The twirl! The pirouette!

It's straight to Strictly, I think,

for Freddie. That's it!

But of course, he's surprised,

because the entire time Freddie's

known Charlotte, she was Faithful.

Mm. So he's thinking, "What?"

But he's right to be surprised because she's been a Traitor

for about five seconds. No.

And he must also think, "Oh, wow, we've gotten rid of so many."

And he will think she did that,

she got rid of all of them, and then think,

"OK, I'm in a bit of a predicament now."

I think what we can't do is also underestimate Freddie. Mm-hm.

You know, he is somebody that spotted Minah

when nobody else did. Yeah.

So, although he is up against Charlotte to try and get it

to the end as a Traitor,

I think he might have a few things up his sleeve. Yeah.

And I hope he does.

I think he's going to have a difficult night's sleep, though.

I think he's not even going to have time to wash his abs

in the morning.

So, at the start of tonight's episode, we also found out that Joe

had been murdered.

Very prominent Faithful. Joe! Very vocal at the Round Table.

What a guy Joe is, though.

I mean, do you not find...?

I found him so funny in there.

But I like Dan and Joe in the castle... Oh, yes!

...because they are there playing a game

and also didn't really have time for anyone overemoting in there. 100%.

I love them because... because they weren't so emotional,

when somebody cried, they'd be like, "Why are you crying?"

Like, "We've seen Traitors before - series one and two -

"we've seen that. You don't need to do that Oscar performance."

So Joe lost out on a Shield in the previous mission

because Leon voted for Freddie.

Do we think his fate was sealed by that mission, Katherine?

Or do you think he would have gone anyway?

I think it was probably Joe's time to go.

I think it's going to get spicy.

I think this is going to be the spiciest series yet of Traitors.

But, you know, it can't be all spice all the time.

Sometimes you need a Yorkshire pudding on the side. Right?

Now, Freddie and Charlotte's story actually started earlier

in the episode when he pulled her for a chat to discuss Minah.

OK, Charlotte. Yes.

Because you were one of the only people I trust here.

Yes, yes, I know. Ditto.

Minah or Jake.

Yeah, it's not Jake.

So I think Minah.

Because why is Jake still here? Yeah.

Jake should be murdered by now.

Do you see what I'm saying?

And she overreacts to everything,

like, "Oh, I'm really scared

"about being murdered."

But also, like, I know she came under a minor bit of questioning.

She hasn't... Look,

I'm going to come for her today at the table.

Yeah. I have to.

I'm quite shocked

because the pendulum is now swinging

in an anti-Minah direction.

And so I'm not going

to throw my life on the line

defending her and making

everyone look at me twice.

This is the first time we see

a Traitor actually deliberately plant another Traitor. Mm-hm.

Throughout the series, they were all sticking together.

They were all really trying, and... Until the moment that they had to...

Yeah, until the moment.

So they're like, "No, maybe it's not her. It's somebody else." Yeah.

So I think this was the first time

we saw one actually go for another one.

What do we make of Freddie opening up to Charlotte there?

Because this is obviously from before he was recruited.

Is that something you have to be careful of

when you're in the castle,

is who you open up to and what you tell certain people?

Ed, it's THE most important thing in there.

I can't even explain to you.

You know, it took me such a long time to actually come to terms

with the idea of,

"I need to tell someone about Harry." Mm-hm.

"You know, I'm the only person that has got this guy."

He's not made any mistakes,

he's in control of the game,

he's planting seeds.

He's 99% Traitor.

But who do I tell that to? Yeah.

Who do I trust?

So we should talk about the mission tonight, which did spark off

some suspicions in Frankie's mind.

Let's revisit that moment.

Who's saying something different to everybody else?

I suppose look at it that way.

Well, then that'd be Frankie. Do you know what I mean?

Cos sometimes the loudest person

is the person listened to the least.

I noticed at one point it seemed

like Minah was trying to swing it back to me.

So that was alarm bells to me.

That clip just reminds me of Armani back in the early missions,

when she was trying to go against the grain to sabotage the mission.

But that was also the first time we've heard her speak so confidently

and so loudly.

So probably Frankie's like, "Wait, you're usually quiet."

But they have used... The Faithful have used Minah's quietness

against her... Yeah. ..in past deliberations,

and been like, "Oh, you just repeat

"what everyone else says, and you're under the radar

"and you're this..." Totally. So there's no right or wrong way.

I think Minah was doing something smart, actually, to play different

versions of herself. Yeah.

Like, "I'll speak up a bit here,

"take a chance." And it just didn't pay off. That's it.

I just love that game,

any game designed to make people second-guess themselves

and stir up drama and to make

Faithful look like Traitors, and vice versa.

I just think it's the perfect game and it should be played

in families at Christmas.

Yeah! Yeah! You know what I mean?

Who's the most two-faced? Yeah.

Nan.

She's always pretending she's sleeping. Yeah.

And we know.

Now, I absolutely cannot wait to chat

to tonight's murdered and banished players,

but, first, let's see the exclusive moment

where they meet for the first time after leaving the game.

Minah!

I had a feeling it was going to be you.

So nice to see you. Nice to see you, too.

Gosh! It's nice to see you, Minah, but obviously not.

Um, do you know what?

I did have a worry

because when we got it wrong with Leon, as soon as we came out

the Round Table, I heard people say, "We've got to go for Minah." Yeah.

I did think me going,

they might have thought, surely she's not that reckless. Yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were a Traitor,

but I never had any evidence to say you were. Like, my three Faithfuls

would be Charlotte, Frankie and Jake.

My three Traitors would be Freddie, Leanne, Alexander.

I see you as slap bang in the middle.

Yeah. So, Minah, the big question...

...are you Faithful or are you a Traitor?

Can I ask you, looking at me right now, do you think I'm a Traitor?

I actually think you're a Faithful.

I'm a Traitor. Are you? No, Minah!

I didn't have you down for it.

You were so in the middle for me. Aw! That's...

Yeah, that was my game plan.

I've been a Traitor since the very first day.

Really? Yeah.

I feel like I can't even be mad at you cos you're so lovely.

LAUGHS: I'm a lovely murderer!

I kind of feel privileged that I got to find out one on one.

Yeah. So, I've experienced it.

I've been there to catch two Traitors at the table... Yeah.

...and I've had a Traitor come out to me. Yeah.

Are you ready to find out who the other Traitors are?

I am. I need to know.

Enjoy!

Right, let's see.

Charlotte!

HE LAUGHS

No way! This is wrong!

Oh, my goodness!

It's proper, like, girl power, isn't it?

No... There must be more names!

Charlotte?

I can't believe... She deserves it, then.

She deserves it. Don't let my death be in vain.

I'm glad it's not Frankie.

Yeah. I'd have been gutted if it was Jake,

because I got really close with him. Yeah.

I genuinely thought...

Now that you're here, I thought, "It's not going to be Leanne."

I thought, "It's going to be Freddie..." Yeah.

..."or potentially Alexander."

Freddie was genuine all that time.

I'm shocked.

I can't be angry.

She's played such a good game.

So she's the only one left? Yeah.

Yeah, I can't be angry.

And they're here with us now. Please welcome Joe and Minah!

Unbelievable!

Welcome, guys, to Uncloaked. It's an honour to have you here.

Thank you very much for coming on. Thank you.

Joe, you seemed genuinely surprised to find out

that Minah was a Traitor. Yeah.

I wasn't 100% sure with her,

but I think there was never any evidence.

She just flew under the radar.

So I think the only reason I thought it might be

was because there were people whispering her name,

but there was nothing that I saw... Yeah, slap bang in the middle...

Yeah. ..you said about Minah. Was there ever a time in the game

where she swung more towards Traitor for you?

I don't think there was. I genuinely don't think there was.

I think, in itself, that might be the only suspicion -

she's too under the radar.

But other than that, there was nothing that made me think,

"Oh, that's a bit sus."

I think maybe as it went on, maybe I got a bit cocky

or a bit comfortable, I got complacent.

I think that's the right word. You got confident.

Yeah, I think I got confident.

And I think because I made a conscious effort

to make relationships within different groups from day one,

I think in my head, I was like, "Surely someone would tell me.

"Surely!" But that's the confidence, isn't it?

The power got to me.

I don't think you were complacent. I think you're being polite

and you're going, "Well, I'm going to have to say something now

"that means, like, 'Maybe I just got too confident.' "

I think you continued to play it brilliantly.

And when you said about Frankie during that last challenge,

were you trying to deflect people from guessing Charlotte,

or were you trying to put it on Frankie,

or were you just thinking out loud, as you said?

I actually was just thinking out loud.

I genuinely have, like, word diarrhoea, so I just speak.

So during that whole game, trying to think before I speak

was so hard for me.

Naturally, I think something and I just say it.

So when she said that,

I was like, "No, really, it's do-do-do-do-do."

And then to her, that was like a slip-up.

Yeah. But to me, I was just... talking. How hard is that -

to have word diarrhoea and be a Traitor?

Oh! It must be really difficult. Well, I didn't win, did I?

So it's like... It's nearly impossible.

Did you have to take Word Imodium every day?

Twice a day! LAUGHTER

Joe, you were absolutely gobsmacked

that Charlotte was the only remaining Traitor.

I was, yeah.

I mean, in fairness, now that I know she wasn't from the start...

When I opened that envelope, I was thinking, "Is this from day one?

"Because if it is, I'm really shocked."

Were you more surprised by Minah or Charlotte?

Minah from the beginning - now you know what you know.

Probably Minah, yeah.

I think it's only because the numbers had whittled down so much,

her name came up. Like, had there still been loads,

your name wouldn't have been mentioned at all.

Did you have a game plan going in, Minah, as a Traitor?

Yeah, I actually only had a game plan as a Traitor,

so God help me if I weren't picked, honest to God!

My game plan going in was to be myself.

I just... I just knew that the way I am with people,

I make connections with people so easily without trying.

Like, naturally, that's just how I am.

And I just thought, "What a perfect game plan. Just be yourself.

"I don't have to pretend I'm Welsh,

"or not a priest, or..." Extra pressure!

"I just need to be myself.

"It's going to work. I'm going to make friends with people."

And I just wanted to make those connections with multiple people,

so multiple people were like, "I just can't believe that it's her

"before it's Joe, before it's Frankie, before it's Leon."

Minah, you walked in with Dan... Yeah. ..linking arm in arm

as soon as you first entered that castle.

And I thought, "Minah's definitely going to use Dan as collateral,"

you know, as a shield. Yeah.

And that's why I thought Dan was going to go the distance -

because you'd have him under your wing. Yeah.

And then as soon as he made that one error

and, you know, put his hand up at the Round Table

and admitted that it was him, his fate was sealed, wasn't it?

Yeah. Unfortunately, as a Traitor...

Obviously as a human, you give people the benefit of the doubt.

But as a Traitor, there is no room for a second chance.

As soon as somebody shows you that there is an ounce of them

that doesn't trust you, they have to go.

Cos from our perspective, you absolutely loved any murder.

You were... You were so delighted.

OK, I did love it! Especially when they got Shields

and you knew you weren't going to be able to murder that night...

Yeah. ..you'd be really downhearted. Fuming!

It felt like we weren't fed that night.

That was amazing.

Did you have anyone that was a difficult kill

that you actually felt badly about?

Cos you looked like you were having...

SHE LAUGHS ...wholesome fun.

There was... There's two that stick out for different reasons.

Keith was really, really hard.

Uncle Keith. We called him Uncle Keith in the castle.

Black belt jiu jitsu as well.

Well, I didn't know that when I murdered him,

you know, otherwise I might have thought twice.

But Keith was really hard because that breakfast,

I just remember everyone was like, "He just wanted to do a mission."

Like, "Who could do that?" Like, "You've took that away from him!"

And I was like, "Oh, my God! How heartless."

And Joe, because Joe was the banter in the castle for me.

Like, the one-liner when you said to Lisa about, like,

"Can you speak to God for some guidance?"

Like... You know, in times where we were struggling

and we needed a little pick-me-up, Joe was that.

He'd just have these little one-liners.

You did seem to be able to remove yourself from some

of the... Drama. ..over-emotion or the drama

and just treat it like a game. Do you think that's fair?

I think so. I think after the whole getting it so wrong with Kas,

and I feel like I owe the nation a public apology with Kas,

but I think with him, it was, you know...

You know, it looked like I'd gone for him because he'd made a toast.

But everyone has said, "Why did you go for poor Kas?"

But then, in the same breath, "Why is Linda still there?"

And back at the very first Round Table,

we were all gunning for Linda, and Kas was very defensive of her.

So straight away, I was, like, suspicious.

And then Armani was very defensive of Kas as well,

and she cornered me in the kitchen and was like,

"I'm very concerned. Why are you bringing up Kas's name?"

And I thought, "Why does that bother you?"

So once I got that seed in my head, like, with the toast,

when he did the toast, had that not already happened,

I wouldn't have even been looking in his eyes.

I wouldn't have known if they were open or closed.

But that spark became a flame, became a fire, and I couldn't stop.

But after that, and when I got it so wrong, I felt so bad,

I thought, "I'm going to take a back-seat now.

"I'm going to sit here. I'm going to just enjoy the Round Tables."

And I think that's when I relaxed,

and that's when I felt like I could make a bit more, like,

witty comments - not purposely, but that's just...

When I get nervous in a situation,

I'll just try and make a little joke.

I do want to talk about the other Traitors, Minah.

MINAH GASPS I want... Let's talk Linda.

Oh! My actual heart!

I love her so much.

What were you thinking at that moment when the head turn

was called out by Jake at the Round Table... very early on?

You know, because I didn't see it,

and she was like, "I didn't, I didn't!"

I was like, "OK, she didn't."

Like, because I did not know that she actually has or hasn't.

But when I watched it...

...I was like, "Linda, for crying out loud, just concentrate!

"It's day one!" I just couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe that that happened

and she makes it, like, over halfway.

Like, that is wild. Yeah, that is mental. It is mental.

Armani, we should talk about Armani.

I mean, obviously the first Traitor to go.

We need to talk about the feedback that she gave you two in the Turret.

Aw! She stands by that advice, by the way.

She came on Uncloaked... Really? She absolutely...

Despite the fact she was in here as the first Traitor banished,

she stood by that advice.

Do you still stand by your response to the advice?

Yes. I think Armani... Like, that's just how she is as a person.

So, naturally, she takes control of situations, good or bad.

But with that, she's not taking a step back

to just observe what's going on around her, which is what I do.

So the sisterhood thing of, actually...

...you actually wanted to get to the end

with these Traitors? Yeah, with Armani and Linda. 100%.

So obviously when you recruited Charlotte... Yeah. Why?!

I just want to know why!

What in Charlotte said, "Yes"?

I love Charlotte, by the way, but I'm just like... Yeah.

Was it the accent?

No, it wasn't her fake Welsh accent! LAUGHTER

So, why did I pick Charlotte?

The big, big question everyone's asking.

Now, looking back, guys, I should have picked Lisa.

Lisa?! Ooh, Lisa! What?!

I should have picked Lisa, because Linda was out.

In what world is there two, you know, older females?

I thought she would rather get murdered than accept.

And I didn't want to put anyone out of the game that way,

if that makes any sense.

And then I thought, "Could I pick Frankie?"

But I just... Again, similar reasons -

I just didn't think Frankie was built to be a Traitor. Yeah.

I think if I'd have known Leanne was in the Army,

I would have picked her.

But she always seemed very, like, worried to me.

She was always like, "I'm so scared, I'm so scared, I'm so scared!"

Obviously that was a game plan for her.

And then Charlotte,

I had accused Charlotte on the second Round Table

and she'd proven her Faithfulness.

So in my head, I was like, "She is the only female who has proven

"to everybody she is 100% Faithful.

"Therefore, surely she'll think of that as,

" 'I want to win with her.' "

Yeah. But obviously cos I'd accused her, looking back at it now,

she's like, "I do not trust you one bit."

Can I just ask you both - if you had to just change one thing,

looking back now, what would you do?

I think the final mission that I was in,

with the heads that we carried up, we'd carried them all up

and there was an opportunity.

I sat down, was catching my breath,

and the others were running to get the rest of the heads.

There was an opportunity where I think I could have put my head

on the plinth to get an extra day's immunity... Ooh!

...but I think that we'd all discussed it

and we were all like, "Yeah, we're out for ourselves,

"we want the immunity," but then I think tensions got high,

and if someone had have done that, it wouldn't have looked good.

So I think it might have bought me an extra day,

but people would have turned on me from both sides.

I think the one thing you could have done in that mission

is gone up to Leon and said, "Leon, we're voting now

"and my name is in the middle." Yeah, I wish I'd said that,

like, shook him - "Vote for me!" "Back in the room, Leon!"

I want to say I'd pick different, but if I'm being honest with you,

I wouldn't do anything different.

Like, I... Yeah, I didn't win, but I went out how I wanted to go out -

with integrity.

I was clear in my mission, which was a sisterhood.

And I felt like I gave that and I showed that I gave that.

Yes, I did kill loads of people, guys, OK, I understand,

but, you know, I tried where possible to protect Linda.

I never made rumours about Charlotte or anything like that.

So I don't think I'd do anything differently because I'm happy with,

you know, how I played the game. And you gave us content. Yeah!

You gave us all content. Yeah, it was...

I gave you facial expressions!

Well, let's revisit the moment when you reveal

that you're a Traitor.

You guys know how I feel about all of you.

Last night was the best night ever.

And I wish you all the best of luck.

I'm rooting for every single person.

I love you all.

And it's nothing personal.

I am...

...and have been from the start...

...a Traitor. CHEERING

Look at Charlotte!

Look at Charlotte! Charlotte is doing cartwheels.

Charlotte's so excited!

Charlotte, Charlotte, bring it down a bit, please! Yeah! Wow!

We've heard you had a viewing party for Episode 1

with your family and friends. Yeah. What was that reaction like?

Oh, my gosh, it was explosive.

So, obviously, like, they didn't know I was on the show.

Found out, you know, when the announcement was made,

and everyone's like, "What? What? What?"

So, like, obviously my husband knew, and he was like,

"I'm going to film everyone's reaction."

And he was like, "Just do that."

So I was like, "OK." He's my creative director.

So we filmed it. And obviously, like,

they just all lost their minds. Like, everyone lost their minds.

And then I just uploaded it online

and everyone just went mental for it, but it was such a nice feeling.

But then once it happened, they were like, "Of course you are.

"Of course you are! Like, you are literally main character energy.

"Of course you were going to be a Traitor!"

Erm... No-one trusts me now.

Yeah? Yeah. Like, my husband's packed up...

LAUGHTER He's took my dog and my child.

I don't know where they are. No-one trusts me.

Yeah. So, it's been funny.

Joe, talk to me about how you approached the game as a whole.

Cos you were very vocal at the Round Table.

I did the opposite to my game plan.

I thought, "Go in, don't be vocal, just blend in at the start."

But I can't... I can't just sit there.

If I think something, I have to say it.

And I didn't want to be too quiet and get suspicion on me for that.

But when I sit and see things being said and I don't agree with it,

I think, "No, I have to speak up."

I don't know if it's the teacher in me -

you know, if the class is starting to be a bit chatty,

I need to, "Right, stop talking," but when they all started...

You know, when we were having our opportunity to talk,

I thought, "I can't."

I thought, "If it means I go out sooner, it means I go out sooner,

"but I have to just be who I am.

"Because if I'm not, then I'm acting as someone different,

"so what's the point?"

I mean, it got you to quite a late stage in the game.

I was surprised how long I lasted, to be honest.

People were very sure of you as a Faithful, I'd say

kind of more than anyone else in there.

You were never really under suspicion. No, and that's...

Like, I'd have a big dinner at night cos I thought,

"I won't be eating brekkie in the morning. There's no point."

But I was still there every day, yeah, going in,

and I was like, "What's going on?" You're welcome!

LAUGHTER

I do want to ask about this cos - especially this series -

there's been a lot of chat of people saying,

"I think, why am I still here? Why have I been kept in the game?

"Maybe I'm close to a Traitor."

Does that play into any decisions in terms of murdering?

Because it just... To me, it seems when people say,

"I don't know why I'm still here," it's like,

"Cos you haven't been murdered or banished yet."

There's not a reason for it.

I think the one with me was Jake.

I was like, "I don't get why, after getting Linda out,

"they didn't hit us where it hurts."

I was like... That's when I started.

I mean, I suppose that might be the only time...

But I still... I didn't tie it to you.

That's when I thought it could be the others.

But that really confused me with Jake, because I thought,

"If I was a Traitor, I would have got Jake out straight away."

And even, we saw in tonight's episode, the big chess game,

you guys put him as, you know, biggest threat to the Traitors

and the leader of the pack.

If I was a Faithful, I'd be thinking,

"That's a good point. Why hasn't he been killed yet?" Yeah. Yeah.

But then you start thinking, "But is it a double bluff?"

Yeah, I suppose... If it's someone that's not close to him...

Exactly. ..that is, like, keeping him in to make it seem like that.

Same with Linda. Like, there was a part of us thinking,

"Oh, is it someone else leaving Jake in

"to make it look like Linda's leaving Jake in?" So you start...

It gets to the point where you're double, triple-thinking...

Yeah. ..every move on the chess board.

Joe, Minah, thank you so much for joining me on Uncloaked.

You've been absolutely brilliant to watch.

Delight having you, of course.

And thank you, of course, to Oti, Katherine and Jaz

for coming along for the ride! APPLAUSE

Thanks, guys!

The fun doesn't stop there, however,

because we're all going to stick around

and continue the chat on BBC Sounds.

We'll be finding out more about Joe's in-game suspicions

over Freddie, what Minah and Joe's favourite mission was,

plus, Jaz has brought along his ultimate guide to Traitor-hunting.

It's all in the bonus episode of Uncloaked on BBC Sounds.

Either scan the QR code or search for Uncloaked in the app

and you'll be able to find us.

It's the perfect way to listen because you can have it on

whilst writing your application for the next series of The Traitors,

which you can do at the following web address...

And remember, we'll be right here after the penultimate episode

of The Traitors tomorrow night.

I'm Ed Gamble. Stay Faithful.

APPLAUSE