Original subtitles

Hello and welcome back to the Traitors Uncloaked,

the official visualised podcast, hosted by me, Ed Gamble.

If you haven't seen Episode 3 then stop here, turn around

and get onto iPlayer right now because there will be spoilers.

Plus I can reveal that it's a super dramatic episode.

You are going to love it.

And it delights me to say that I can open things up with this sound...

SIREN WAILS

Yes, that is the Traitors siren, and that means a Traitor

has been caught.

So what do we have in store for you tonight?

I will be joined by super fans Vogue Williams,

Jamie Laing and Series 2 player Ash to take a deep dive

into Episode 3 of The Traitors.

We look ahead to Week Two and what that mysterious

horse and cart could mean.

Plus Spanish Traitor Armani will be joining us to discuss

her time in the castle.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Vogue, Jamie and Ash, welcome.

Welcome to Traitors Uncloaked. Hello!

Now, there's a lot we've got to get through today.

A lot to cover.

We've got growing suspicions around Kas, Freddie and Linda.

We've got a tense round table where bold accusations

and theories were flying around. And we've got a crazy mission

which resulted in some very frayed tempers.

What a huge first week of Traitors.

How have we found it?

Vogue, how have you found this first week?

I loved it. I love that one of them has been caught.

But Linda is... She's the funniest

for me because I don't think

she really understands how to play the game!

So... LAUGHTER

We love Linda. We're going on a big campaign on Uncloaked. Yeah.

We want Linda to go the distance because... 100%.

...absolutely incredible. There's some suspicion, but I think

she might keep scraping through. You never know. Yeah.

What about you, Jamie? How have you enjoyed this first week?

I've loved it. It's been amazing. I'm with Vogue. I think Linda

is hilarious because she... Honestly, you could say something

to Linda like... You could say, like, "Oh, my God, Linda,

"in real life I've murdered someone. Have you?"

Ancl she'd be like, "Yeah, I have too!"

LAUGHTER

She just admits everything,

and just agrees with everyone.

She's amazing.

Ancl Armani, the fact that the stuff that...

Armani was a huge character and the fact that... Yeah.

...she's kind of, like... You know, I thought she was going to be there

till the end, so it's amazing. Yeah. It's been incredible.

Big moment for the series. Big moment in this episode.

Ash, did it give you any flashbacks to your early exit as a Traitor?

Oh, you know what, I'm not going to lie - I did...

I did have a little tear in my eye, yeah. It was quite emotional

watching her. When everyone's coming at you around that round table,

and she was not expecting it, I don't think. No.

Yeah, so I really, really felt for her, you know?

Let's properly kick things off with where we left that episode.

The three Faithfuls that they're looking to murder

are Freddie, Maia and Charlotte.

Who do you think they might go for?

I think, by the reaction at the end of that, I'm thinking

they might get Maia,

just because no-one will expect that

because obviously everyone should now think that Maia is faithful.

So maybe... But then Maia would be so good to recruit!

So it'd be a bad move to get rid of her.

But also really unexpected. That's a really good point.

That would be a hugely unexpected thing to do,

to recruit the other sister.

But also, I do like the idea of an entire family being wiped out

in one episode. Yeah! ASH LAUGHS

What about you, Jamie? Who do you think...?

I'm the same as Vogue.

I think that Maia would be the obvious one,

because it's, like, sisters and it's, like, deleting a family.

But I... LAUGHTER

Yeah, "Bye! Yeah, we got you!"

But I think they're going to recruit her.

That's what's going to happen.

I think Freddie's going to go. Do you think?

Oh, poor Freddie! Yeah. Yeah.

Sweet Freddie. That shower scene as well...

I know. Wow! Hot stuff, yeah.

Sweet, gorgeous Freddie!

I think he's got as much out of this show

as he's going to get out of it with that shower scene.

Cos does anyone... I've never showered by, like...

I've never lathered with both hands like...

Ash, who do you think, from a Traitor's perspective,

would be the best person to murder?

I think Charlotte, because... Out of those three,

because I think Freddie has got a bit of heat on him.

So I think they could really use him as a patsy on the round table. Mm.

I think Maia would be really good as a recruit,

and then throw her under the table kind of thing. Yeah.

Or under the bus!

If you throw her under the table, that's going to do nothing.

LAUGHTER

She'll just come out the other side and go,

"|'m still here. Why'd you do that?"

Yeah!

So I think Charlotte, you know. I do, out of those three, for sure.

I do want to know, though, because we've got

a Traitor in the room here.

What are your primary motives when you are murdering someone?

Is it to take the heat off yourself?

Is it to cause a bit of chaos?

Is it to remove threats?

What do you mainly look at?

Well, first of all, you look at threats. Yeah.

You look at... I mean, you may not have the heat on you

at that time, but you do look at threats first, and then

sometimes you do do it just to throw people off,

and it makes people think, "Why?

"Why would you... Why would you kill this person?"

Now, we did have our first Traitor capture.

It's huge. It's quite early as well.

Yeah. Very, very exciting.

Armani did seem very surprised that the tables had been turned.

Yeah. Do we think she should have been surprised?

Do you think she was maybe doing a bit too much, Vogue?

I think she was surprised because I think that she kind of had

everyone wrapped around her little finger.

Like, people were scared of suggesting her, which is unusual.

Ancl I don't think that she was expecting that at all.

She had a game plan.

She thought she was doing it perfectly, and I kind of...

I loved that it happened to her

because you know when someone's so sure about it

and it's like, "No, no, no, no, no. Hang on a second"? Yeah.

I loved watching her go under the bus.

Yeah, I mean, she... LAUGHTER

Well, she'll be in in a bit so you can... I'll tell her in a bit!

...say that to her face, yeah. LAUGHTER

Ash, the things that were level led against Armani - doing too much,

speaking to too many people,

going around to different groups and talking.

I feel like those are accusations that were also level led

at you when you were kicked out.

So do you think she made the same mistakes as you did?

'N.

Yes and no, but I think the difference between us was

that she was very vocal around that round table. Mm-hm.

Whereas I was the opposite, you know,

because I couldn't get a word in edgeways.

And I think because she had that extra level of confidence,

she was just adamant that everybody loved her,

which they did. But actually part of what we already saw -

that people were afraid of her. ALL: Yeah.

They were afraid to bring her name up.

So I think because she...

I think she was just a bit too extra around the round table.

I'm like, "Babe, bring it back a little bit," you know?

Rein it in a bit, yeah. Yeah.

Right at the end of the episode, though, we got a teaser

for the next episode, which was of course a horse-drawn carriage

with a rail replacement sign on the side

driven by two hooded figures in gold masks.

Very spooky.

I want to hear your theories.

What's going... What's going on there?

The train people are coming back.

The train people are coming back!

I mean, it would've been absolutely vicious to throw them out

before they even got there.

Imagine. Like, you were saying, "I've just told all my friends

"and family I'm going off to do a TV show"... Yeah.

...and you come back two hours later and you're like, "Hello."

LAUGHTER "Oops. Sorry!"

"I'll be gone for three weeks." Yeah. "Where's all your stuff?"

"I left it on the train."

Now, before we get on to the drama at the round table, I think

we need to talk about the mission, because it was a crazy one.

We've even... We've got the oars behind us here.

Let's have a look at those.

Let's remind ourselves of the moment where our Traitors Linda and Minah

get into a bit of a to-do on the boat...

Ancl pull! In front, you're out of rhythm.

Ancl pull!

She's... They're out of rhythm.

What? You're out of rhythm.

But when you're saying, "And pull", that's when we're pulling, to me.

No, no, no... No, you're not.

Guys, don't stop rowing!

Go!

It's just not that damn deep.

Ancl pull!

I am getting off this boat.

And pull! Cos, like, I feel like we're pulling

when everyone's saying "Pull,"

but apparently we're not.

LAUGHTER Very good.

Absolutely amazing. That is unbearable.

I would hate to be on that boat.

Vogue, do you think that seemed like a strong sisterhood?

It was very... No, it was not a strong sisterhood.

It reminded me... Do you remember the boat in Series Two

when they just kept going around in a circle... Yeah.

...because no-one knew how to row.

In fairness, I don't know how to row, but I reckon I'd do

a better job than that.

Well, Freddie said... Of course, he went, "I don't know how to row.

"|'m not that posh." So, Jamie, can you tell us a bit about rowing?

Yeah. LAUGHTER

It depends if you want an eight or a scull or you're just looking

for just a quick rowing boat. I can give you all of them, yeah.

Yeah. Obviously I know. OK!

Yeah, it was all over the place, that mission.

But what I really liked about it is there's the whole thing of

the Traitors don't want people to be safe from murder,

so they're trying to make the Faithfuls get off the boat,

and they need to stay on the boat to take the shields away.

But Minah ended up getting off because the other Traitor

was doing her head in.

In that particular moment, though, I think Minah secured her place

as a Faithful. Yeah. I think so.

But that was, like, the by-product

of her just being really pissed off with Linda.

But she's the perfect level of, like, she's not too full-on,

she's kind of getting on with everybody and she's not

in anyone's face at the same time and kind of saying just enough.

She's got that level perfect. Mm.

If I was Minah now, I would vote off Linda.

Like, I would... She probably will! I would just go -

I would just double down.

I would double down hard on it and, like, start going for Linda.

I think Linda has still got suspicion on her... Yeah.

...from the time she turned around when Claudia said "Traitors".

So I think there's still people sniffing around Linda, and I think

you just get in the wake of that and you can get rid of Linda,

and then... I would just get rid of Linda. Yeah.

Then you're plain sailing. There's just no way

they're ever going to think... That it's Minah, yeah.

So let's revisit the odd interaction between Freddie and Maia

on one of the pontoons.

We get on to that raft, yeah?

First thing he says to me is,

"Well, I hope they don't get it."

He's not moving like normal today.

He's moving panicky today.

Now I think Freddie's a Traitor.

Oh! It was a weird thing to say.

I know, but he was really annoyed with them. Yeah, I understood it.

I'd be like, "Do you know what? You made me get off."

But when you know that there's all those suspicions floating around,

it's a weird thing to say. Mm.

And, as he said it, he panicked. Yeah.

He was like, "Oh, why have I said this now?" Yeah.

"I should try and withdraw that." I think it was just a rage.

Do we think it's going to end badly for Freddie?

Do we do we think that that might seal his fate?

He has put himself in the hot seat for that. Yeah.

But, you know, that's the thing.

When you get to that Round Table anything can happen.

You can have somebody's name in your mouth,

and then ten minutes later that can change.

OK. We simply must talk about tonight's Round Table,

and particularly how Kas came under a lot of scrutiny.

Let's revisit that moment.

No, no, let me finish. Something's been going on... Let me finish, Joe.

Joe, let me finish. The last thing I'm going to say is if the fact that

you're voting for me is because I'm a nice person or, because

I'm a doctor, "|t makes sense."

The fact that I have a job is not a reason to vote for me.

I didn't say that. No, that is what... Literally, you just said,

"The doctor thing makes sense. You save lives during the clay."

No! "You kill people at night." So you're basically calling me,

like, Harold Shipman or something?

No... Whoa, that's a bit loaded, mate! I'm not saying that.

It's a horrible, horrible thing to say, that the reason... That's not

what I was... that the reason you think I'm a Traitor...

I wasn't saying it like that.

This does feel like the Faithfuls are grasping at straws slightly,

for me, that they're picking Kas out as a potential Traitor

because he is a doctor and he's nice, and that,

"Oh, a Traitor who's a doctor. That'd be an amazing thing."

It'd be perfect, yeah.

It's... Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous.

He hasn't clone one single thing.

I actually feel really sorry for him.

He's just nice, and that seems to be the problem. Yeah.

There was the toast. Yeah.

In the last episode, where he stood up and made a toast

in front of everyone at breakfast, which was a little bit suspect,

I think. I thought that was a really lovely thing!

Well, it was completely revolting to everyone, obviously!

LAUGHTER

Everyone was horrified by that nice deed!

You could see in his face when he stood up to make the toast,

he was like, "Oh, my God, why am I doing this?"

LAUGHTER Yeah!

Ancl he should have just gone...

..."Nyyyeeow! " LAUGHTER

Pretended he was completely mad!

Yeah, and that would have been fine because no-one's going to go,

"We've got to get rid of Kas cos he pretended

"his orange juice was a plane."

Oh, God!

Now, Linda also drawing a lot of heat. I know, we talk about Linda

so much on the show. Ah, we love Linda, really. We love Linda!

She's an icon. We love her.

Jake is onto her.

Ash, what do you think Linda could possibly do to alleviate

some of this pressure? Or is it too late for her?

This is what I think. This is what should happen.

They recruit a person.

Linda comes in with Jake, convinces him of who the Traitor is.

Then she'd be known as the Traitor-hunter. Mm-hm.

Throws that person under the bus. You win Jake.

Now we've fully dissected that episode, I think it's time to

address this series' first Traitor banishment.

Let's revisit the moment that Armani revealed her true identity.

Genuinely, I have had THE best time.

I would not have chosen to be any different

because this genuinely is just who I am.

I am genuinely so grateful for the time

and you guys are all amazing.

I love you all and I hope we can all chill after this.

I am...

...a Traitor.

WILD CHEERING

And she's here with us now. Welcome, Armani!

THEY CHEER

Thank you!

Armani, thank you so much for joining us on Uncloaked.

Thank you for having me.

Could you take us through that moment, that moment where you had to

reveal to everyone in there that you were a Traitor?

What was going through your head at that moment?

I was thinking, "For God's sake, they've got me. Cor, blimey!

"Like, oh, here we are!"

But in all honesty,

the whole thought process I had the whole time

of this experience was,

"|'m here to play a game and have a really good time,"

and although it was the end, I was just like,

"Oh, that was really just so great."

Like, I thought everyone was just so lovely.

I felt a bit sad for my sister - I can't lie - because

she was really struggling. I was thinking, "Girl, relax.

"|t's all right, man. Like, you know, you can suspect me.

"|t's the game!"

Well, it's kind of an amazing moment when you reveal you're a Traitor.

The look on Maia's face, there's so many emotions happening

all at once because she's upset to see you go.

She's upset that you were a Traitor.

She's upset that she said you were a Traitor,

but is also happy that she's found a Traitor. Yeah.

So she's, like, doing all sorts of things. There's, like, about

10 million emotions at once.

I was like, for me, maybe it's just because of my nature,

but I was kind of happy that they found a Traitor too.

I was like, "Oh, my God, yeah, guys, you found one!"

LAUGHTER I was like, "But wait. It's me.

"Erm, maybe not." Yeah.

But it was really just... It was just nice. I was like,

"OK, that's the end of my experience, but it was fun."

My favourite thing was when you tried to give

the other Traitors notes. Yeah. Unbelievable.

"|'m just saying that you guys are just not doing enough."

Because they weren't.

I stick to what I said. It was amazing!

I stick to what I said.

How did you feel looking back when you give that feedback

to the other Traitors? I... And then it cuts to Minah going,

"|'m not taking that feedback." I was like, "You witch.

"How dare you? OK?"

No, but, to be fair, I was like, "Respect."

Everyone's got their game play.

Like, for me, it was genuine... Not even advice.

I was saying, "You lot keep on being silent here

"and I'm talking, talking, talking.

"I know that's going to draw some attention to me at some point."

Did you not think about, around the Round Table...?

Because you were very, very vocal.

Yes. Did you not think, for a minute, "Maybe...

"OK, maybe I need to just tone this down, just a little bit?"

Erm, if I'm honest with you... LAUGHTER

No. LAUGHTER

If I'm honest with you, I had a complete game plan

coming into this.

Ancl I'll tell you what the game plan was. Please! Can't wait.

Erm...

Cos you're going to laugh, because I was like,

"I know how this game goes.

"I know what the sensible way of doing this is.

"|'m going to be silent, and I'm going to go behind

"and sit back and listen to what everyone else has got to say..."

STIFLED LAUGHTER "And as they're talking, I'm going

"to just slowly put in my opinion here or there."

Ancl then the problem was, was that, as I stepped foot into

that castle and I saw everyone around me just,

"YaP'YaP'YaPI YaP'YaP"' just came out

and my natural personality couldn't help myself. I was going to say...

I knew I was talking too much, but I couldn't help myself.

Armani, that didn't start in the castle. It started on the train.

LAUGHTER

But I love that. You know, you didn't have to call me out

like that! That's why people...

You are destined to be yourself in the castle no matter what, right?

You're thinking, "|'m going to be really quiet." And then you got in.

That would have been more suspicious to your sister if you got in there

and you were really quiet. You know what it is? I don't even know,

because we'd been talking before about what are we going to do?

Like, how are we going to be as sisters?

Cos we've come in, revealed that we're sisters from the get-go.

Ancl whether or not that was a smart choice, looking back on it, unsure,

but we knew it was going to have a target on our backs.

So we were like, "OK, we're going to try and come in,

"you're going to take one side of the room,

"|'m going to take the other side, we're going to come back

"and give back feedback." The problem was, was that she ended up

going into anxiety mode, and so her mind was gone on that side.

Ancl then I was just literally having the best time of my life.

Like, "This is so much fun!"

Ancl forgetting to, you know, play strategically

rather than just enjoy. And so... Yeah... Do you think that was

a good strategy, revealing that you were sisters straight away? No.

If I could go back, oh, my God, I'd be like, "Shut up, just forget it."

Yeah. Don't bother. Cos the reason why we did is cos we're so similar.

Like, we talk similarly, we look similar, like, our mannerisms.

I was laughing when I saw us both crying

when she walks through the door.

Which, ten out of ten performance by me. Yeah.

Um...but when she... When she was crying, I was looking at her like,

"Bloody hell, we even cry the same."

Like, we're not going to really get away with it for long. One of you

could have pretended to be Welsh.

I think you might have been slightly surprised that they had found you.

And the only reason I think that is this.

Well, let's remind ourselves how you were feeling

at the start of tonight's episode.

I'm having the best time being a Traitor.

I don't want to be too cocky,

but I am pretty happy with the way I'm playing.

Morning. Morning.

To be fair, I think I'm pretty safe. I am pretty popular.

I'm pretty well-liked.

I think I'm going to continue to be playing it the way I am.

LAUGHTER

So were you surprised when you were banished?

It was such a witch hunt out of nowhere. I was like,

"Um, hold on a minute. I thought we were all cool.

"I thought we were on the Armani train.

"What is going on right now?" Because, to be honest with you,

even as I saw myself throughout the episode, I was like,

I'm still thinking, "How did we get here?

"I thought Kas had more on him than me."

I was like... But, you know, I guess that's just how it is.

But I think a lot of the chats were going on behind closed doors.

Yeah. There was, you know, a fair few people suspecting you.

Yeah. And you said there, like, you were popular and well-liked.

Yeah. That's true. But that can be true

and people can suspect you. Yeah.

The problem is, is that I think even if I was a Faithful,

it would have just been the circumstances that they are.

I just can't shut my mouth, like, it's just one of those things,

I'm a chatty girl. So would you have acted the exact same

if you were a Faithful? I think I would have been out

the exact same time, in the exact same way,

for the exact same reasons,

because I just played as myself.

I wasn't even really thinking so much about, you know,

Traitor/Faithful. It's just like, "I want to have fun.

"I want to play the game." As I was saying, I was having a great time!

I was enjoying myself. But you say you would act the same

if you were Faithful, but your sister saw something

in your behaviour that made her think that you were a Traitor.

So what was that? You know what it is?

I honestly believe that even if I was a Faithful,

she would have thought the same thing. Like,

she's very suspicious all the time.

But I think because she was so on edge all the time,

while I was just there skipping through the daisy fields,

like, she was just like, "You're doing something here

"that's different." I'm like, "No, it wasn't."

When your sister turned on you and said, "60%,"

did you feel a little bit, like, hurt? I was betrayed, OK?

I felt completely... I was like,

"Girl, I know that we are in a game right now and I know

"that we're on different sides, but like, damn."

I think that she was the final nail in your coffin.

I think if she hadn't said anything, I don't think you would have gone.

110%. I talk about this with her.

I'm like, "You, witch. If you kept your mouth shut, Kas would have got

"all the votes and I could have squeezed my way out,

"one way or another." But she... I just know what she's like

and why I say that she probably was more suited to the Traitor role.

She's a conniving girl. She is.

Ancl for her, she saw herself going down. So she was like,

"No, I10, I10, n0, let me go..."

She was being a good Faithful in that moment. Yeah. Screw that.

She was willing... She was willing to accept that

you possibly could have been a Traitor, which must have been

quite difficult, I think. Um, you know what it is?

As time was going on, I kind of knew pretty quickly that I was not

going to be able to murder my sister. Like, I knew that.

I just... I just wouldn't be able to do it. So I'm thinking

of all the kind of ways around it. She's got to get, like,

banished first. She's got to, like, whatever, I'll find a way, that way.

But she obviously felt more than fine doing the reverse...

There was a sense that you didn't think you were playing

against your sister, you were actually playing the game with her

even though you were a Traitor. Yeah. Like, I think maybe

it's the big sister in me. Like, I can't help but want to protect her

in some way or form.

So it probably wasn't the best for game play. Like, realistic,

I should have murdered her the first night... Exactly what I said,

I think murder her first night, that would have been... Boom. Yeah.

Did you did you think you were going to win it all the way?

Oh, my God, I thought I would at least get to the bloody final.

Yeah. I can feel that on you.

And I've never seen emotion go from, like, such confidence

to something so confused. "Sorry, what?

"I was meant to be winning this." Every time you said anything,

you were thinking days in advance. So you were going,

"Well, I'm fine for at least, you know, five more Round Tables.

Yeah. You're like, no, you've got to be thinking about this one.

I know, I was so far up my own arse that I literally...

I literally thought that there was just no chance

I'd be gone in that time frame.

Like, there was just not even an inkling in my mind. I was like,

"These girls got my back.

"They said they're going to have my back, so don't worry about that."

I was thinking about when Minah was having a conversation with Leanne,

I'm thinking, "You could have diverted from me there, girl.

"You could have diverted from me."

What did you think when Minah voted for you? I thought,

"You cheeky little girl, you." Did you see it coming, though?

I knew that we were going to have to betray each other at some point.

Obviously. But after this sisterhood, sisterhood, sisterhood,

you ain't got no sister, turns around and tells me, uh, what,

like..."Armani." I was thinking, "Wait a minute.

"Hold on, hold on.

"I thought that we were having each other's backs here."

Also, your acting is sublime cos there's that one bit

when you have to do the challenge and the question was like, "Oh, God,

"how many paintings are up the wall?" And you were like, "Three."

"I think it's one." You're like, "No, I think it's...

"|'m pretty sure it's three, actually," trying to divert it away.

Well, this is a really good point... So good. ..because the missions

seem a lot harder for Traitors this time around.

Because you're having to keep everything in your head. Yeah.

Like, even with that, for example, it's not like I knew the answer,

to be fair, but I knew that Kas would know the answer.

So I was like, "|f you're saying it's four, it's defo four.

"So let me try and figure out how to divert that away from that."

I was like, "Three ain't far off. Sounds about right.

"I can kind of, like...

"I can kind of, like, paint it out in one way or another."

Like, not too difficult.

But the problem is, is that when you got Mr Smarty Pants on your team,

everyone's also thinking, "Yeah, he must be right." Yeah.

But it was you throwing in three and being like,

"I think it might be three, actually." And when everyone...

And Kas went, "What does everyone else think?" They all went, "Four."

Yeah. You seemed genuinely gutted

when they all got immunity from murder

that you weren't going to be able to murder someone.

You enjoyed the killing part of it? 100%. Like, this is the game.

Like, we're the Traitors and I'm a Traitor.

Who would you have gone for next

if you could have chosen someone to murder that night?

Great question. Ooh! OK, OK, OK, let me think. Look at you,

as soon as you think about murder you're shimmying around.

It's such a good game. To fair, I probably would've killed Tyler.

Oh. Yeah, dominant. Yeah. Too dominant, too excited.

Looking for the Traitors. Too nice.

No-one's banishing him. Yeah. But also as well,

cos when I was with him on that activity, I was, like,

I was seeing another part of his personality, which was, like,

he was truly offended by the acts of the Traitors. I'm thinking,

"Are you sure you came to the show with the right mindset here?"

But it's all right, I get it, like, you know?

But I was just like, "No, you've got to go next."

Ancl after, funnily enough, after my Round Table,

if I'd survived, I would have removed Jake for sure. Oh. For sure.

Oh. So you...? Yeah.

Cos then I would have had Linda getting a little bit set up,

and then I would have just been like, "He's a strong...

"Another strong personality."

What I wanted to ask you was that you're saying that people

were sort of looking at Kas, and you were hoping that people

would go for Kas at that Round Table,

but you were defending Kas to the hilt. Don't tell me again.

You were saying, "Kas is 100% a Faithful, he's definitely Faithful."

Yeah. As a Traitor, should you really be throwing...

No, I'm a plum, um, to be honest with you.

Um, realistically speaking, I think my problem is,

is that I think my values and who I am as a person

aligns with Faithful, straight through and through.

I found the murdering easy cos it was just a part of the game.

For me it was just a game, so nothing too difficult.

But as I'm seeing things in person as they're happening,

the kind of, like, I-want-to-defend-people part of me

starts coming out, so it's like people are going,

"Oh, no, it's Kas cos he clone this,"

and even at the thing when he's clone the whole toast, I'm thinking,

"Why would you do that? That's a very stupid move, come on."

I'm, like, I'm telling him like, "You shouldn't do that."

Ancl then he's suspecting me cos I'm talking to him, but whatever.

But, like... But I can't...

I think subconsciously I couldn't help but want to defend him

because I knew people were gunning for him. Yeah. And it's like,

I'm going for Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte.

It's like everyone around me has already said,

"Oh, yeah, no, I know it's not Charlotte," blah, blah blah.

So it's like I'm going for her cos I know nobody's going to vote for her

really. It's the little subconscious niggles.

Even with Elen, I could have really, like, stomped my foot down in that,

like, "Yeah, 100%, like, how could she say...?" Blah, blah, blah.

But I couldn't help myself. It wasn't in my nature to do...

So you don't have that true killer instinct you need as a Traitor.

Yeah, I feel like the deceit was what I was lacking.

Mm. It's a weird one, like, dragging people under when you...

Especially when you know that they're not a Traitor.

Because you are. Yeah. Cos if I was a Faithful,

I think it'd be a lot easier. When you're not used to being

a deceitful person... Yeah. ..It's hard to kind of, uh,

get your mind to work that way in a way, do you know?

You, no, 100%. I also think it's a really good actual plan to, like,

say, when you're a Traitor, to say someone's 100% a Faithful,

cos then if they get voted off,

cos if Kas got voted off, people would be like,

"Well, it can't be you, because you were saying..."

Fair point. ..actually, weirdly, it's kind of a good tactic.

Well, I didn't get to live to see the tale on that.

Linda seemed to suggest that now you've gone,

the Traitors are stronger because of that. How dare they?

How do you feel about that? Do you think that's true? Absolutely not.

So sorry. But, listen,

maybe my game play wasn't as tight as it should have been.

Fine, I'll accept that. But I was running that damn Turret.

Like, as I said, every single

session of murder... I think they were...

They were going to turn on you at one point,

particularly after the notes. The notes, the notes, like,

threw you under the bus with the Traitors and then just...

You were... Yeah, I was in my own world,

I was in my own like,

"Yeah, I'm leading this and it's going so great."

There was definitely moments I was like,

"Armani, you need to roll that back in a bit, darling."

Do you know what I mean?

Now that you've gone, how do you think the remaining two Traitors

are going to perform? Um, the thing is,

is I think Minah has just got it in her.

Like, there's nothing stopping her.

Like, realistically speaking, I wouldn't be shocked

to the slightest if she made it all the way through to the end.

Yeah. Linda, I think, is truly just based on whatever destiny's got

in the stars for her. Um, because realistically speaking,

either she'll just get clocked byjake and then off she goes. Yeah.

Or she'll somehow just keep on escaping every...

Cos I think she's the most obvious Traitor there is.

Like, if I was a Faithful, watching her,

she just does some of the most bizarre moves of all time.

I'd be thinking, "No, it's defo you."

But no-one's obviously picking up on it. So I'm just, again,

over confident. There's nothing I want more than for Linda

to fail her way all the way to the final. I will... No, literally,

which is why I'm like, "You know what? You just better win it, girl."

Like... It'd so good if she won.

That's all we've got time for.

But fret not, the chat continues on BBC Sounds,

where Armani will reveal more salacious secrets

from her time in the Turret.

It's all in the bonus episode of Uncloaked

in your BBC Sounds app right now.

Either scan the QR code or search for Uncloaked in the app

and you'll be able to find us.

And if you think you've got what it takes to be a Traitor

next series - not doing too little, but not doing too much -

then head to...

A huge thank you to Vogue, Jamie, Ash and Armani.

CHEERING

We'll be back again next Wednesday after episode four

to dissect all the treacherous titbits from the Traitors' castle.

I'm Ed Gamble. Stay faithful.

APPLAUSE