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Welcome to The Traitors: Uncloaked, I'm Ed Gamble.
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But before we go any further, you know what I'm going to say -
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spoiler alert. If you're not caught up on all the episodes
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of The Traitors, get to iPlayer, watch them all now.
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Coming up - novelist, broadcaster
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and host of the How To Fail podcast, Elizabeth Day.
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Comedian Ivo Graham.
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Faithful Alex, from series one.
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And, following his banishment, last in, first out Traitor Ross
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finally reunites with his mother and series icon Diane.
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This programme contains some strong language
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Elizabeth, Alex, Ivo, another absolute barnstormer of a show.
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So exciting. Shaking. Shaking.
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Physically shaking. YOU were shaking?
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My heart was out my chest!
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Ivo, how did you feel about that episode?
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I know you're a Traitors superfan.
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Yes, I am, Ed, we've played The Traitors together. Yes.
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But it's never unravelled quite as well.
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I would say there were moments in that episode that were
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as exciting for me as when you cancelled your taxi
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on New Year's Eve so you could stay and keep killing.
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What a night, what a night that was!
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Well, we know what happens on Uncloaked,
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when we catch a Traitor, we play the siren.
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SIREN
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There it is. He only lasted one episode, poor old Ross,
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but we've got plenty to talk about today.
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We've got to talk about Harry's growing confidence. Yeah.
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Some might say cockiness. Some might say cockiness. I'm worried for him.
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I can't wait to dig into that later.
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We should talk first where we left the episode, which is
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Andrew and Harry deciding who to murder.
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So, let's remind ourselves of that decision.
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We need to obviously make a decision -
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Jaz,
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Mollie,
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or Zack.
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Do you want to do it?
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I'm happy, 100%.
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This is the right move.
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I feel good about this one.
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Oh, he is loving that, isn't he? Well, they're usually confident.
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A little too much. It's rare that you go,
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"I think this might be a mistake but we've written it down now."
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So, they're deciding between Zack, Jaz and Mollie,
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who do we think is the smartest move?
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Probably Jaz.
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I think Mollie would be the silliest move
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because she's protecting Harry like crazy.
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And for Wilf, for example, in series one, that was Hannah.
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Hannah protected Wilf like crazy, so it's best to keep her
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in for as long as possible.
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So, I think Jaz is definitely the smartest decision there.
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Also, Jaz seems to be the only one who has suspicions
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about Harry at the moment.
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Hmm. But he's kept them quiet, hasn't he?
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I think, Jaz, they could switch it so that focus turns on Jaz.
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Because he's clearly a very smart, strategic player,
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and I would not find it hard to believe that he were a Traitor.
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Partly because, what I find most suspicious about Jaz,
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is how clean he keeps his white clothes.
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They're in the middle of muddy Scotland and he looks
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so freshly pressed every single time I see him.
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And I just think that could be...
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You could do an interesting pivot on that.
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So, would you be suspecting that, in the Traitors' Turret,
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they have access to a dry cleaner's? Well, this is the question.
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I mean, probably, because they get
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access to all the privileges, don't they?
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We should talk about Harry because, like I say,
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growing confidence - you, Elizabeth, say cockiness -
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do we think he's going the way of Paul, potentially?
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Because Paul, obviously, an amazing Traitor for a bit, then started
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to get a bit of a swagger and maybe got away from himself.
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Paul was swaggering before he'd even...
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Like, episode one, before he was made a Traitor,
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I think he threatened to kill Claudia Winkleman.
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Which is quite a first for the show.
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He did describe himself as cruel, which was a bit of a red flag.
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"Cruel" and "Traitor"
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were two of the words he used to describe himself.
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Do we think he's maybe heading in the same direction, though?
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Because he's very much the hero, a lot, at the moment.
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So, the hero of Round Tables, the hero of missions,
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people are really bigging him up.
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I've really loved Harry from the beginning,
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especially that bit where he talks about Jonny and losing Jonny
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and voting for Jonny around the Round Table,
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and that bond that they had as members of the Army.
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But still, you could see, again, the human emotion behind it.
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He's got you right where he wants you, Elizabeth! Come on!
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I know! I'm turned!
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Can I ask a question?
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So, that whole exchange between Andrew and Ross
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where the word "elusive" was used...? Yes.
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Well, I'm glad you bring that up because we've actually got a clip
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to remind ourselves of that. OK, thank you.
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Ross, the only thing that weirded me out was that you said to me
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in the kitchen that Andrew told you today that
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I was moving hella elusive and that.
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Elusive? When have you ever heard me say the word elusive?
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I literally heard it an hour ago.
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Someone's clearly lying there, but what's going on? That's what I mean.
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Elusive? I would never use the word elusive, ever.
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When have you ever heard me speak, saying the word elusive?
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There's many words I haven't heard you speak,
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Andrew, but why would I say it? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
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Why would I say it? I don't know. To stir shit.
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It's hard, lying, to be honest.
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Barefaced, blatant lying,
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especially when you know the
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other person's telling the truth.
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But I'm playing the game.
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I loved it so much. So good.
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Also because this, to me,
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represents Andrew really coming into his own as a Traitor, as well.
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I was blown away. Because day one of him being a Traitor, I think
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we were all a little bit worried when he walked
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into that breakfast, he looked blown away by the whole situation.
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But now, I think he's nailing it.
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To be able to just go, "When have you heard me use that word?"
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Genius. Genius.
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I would be slightly upset if that was me, though, going,
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"I would never use a word like elusive."
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And everyone goes, "Yeah, you wouldn't, actually."
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"All I've heard you say is protein."
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He lied so well that I was convinced that maybe he didn't
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even say the word elusive, even though I'd heard him say it! Yeah!
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Do we think this is going to come back and bite Andrew, though?
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Do you think he's setting himself up for a bit of a fall here or
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do you think he's done well? I think Harry might turn on him.
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That's Harry's plan, isn't it? He literally says, "I'm going
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"to throw these Traitors out in front of me."
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That's why he wanted to recruit Ross,
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that plan worked out well for him.
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And he's just kind of bringing Andrew along,
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making Andrew nice and safe, "Come under my wing, I'll look after you,
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"don't worry, we're Traitors, we'll win it together."
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But really, all he wants to do is kick him out onto the Round Table
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and get him banished.
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Do we think Andrew believes that Harry has got his back, though?
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Not any more, as in, I don't believe it any more.
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Until this final episode, I thought
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that Harry had all of the cards in his hand but actually now,
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I understand that I've underestimated Andrew.
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And more fool me. Yes.
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Let's talk about Harry's plan,
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because we've not really got into the weeds with that yet.
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The plan, obviously, to get the shield, to then recruit
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and then pretend that, clearly, they tried to murder him
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but he had the shield so they couldn't. It seems to have worked.
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And it seems to have worked with everyone except Jaz, really.
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And it feels like it's going to have massive implications for
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the rest of the game, this.
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It was so clever. Yeah.
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And to be able to think at that level when you are squatting in
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a rancid tunnel with flashing lights and rotten vegetables and toads.
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Yeah. To be able to game play then is just extraordinary.
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It was amazing. And I do think it will work for him,
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he has plotted it out.
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And I wonder if part of that is that military training,
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that you are taught so much about how to think several steps ahead,
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because I think it's going to work. Yeah.
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It does amaze me that Jaz is the only one who's clocked on
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to the idea that, just because Harry had the shield,
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doesn't mean that he couldn't be the Traitor.
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I think it's actually a little disheartening that
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the other Faithfuls haven't considered that yet.
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They're taking too many things for granted now.
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So, they're basing everything on the fact that Harry's
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got the shield and they tried to kill him.
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They've got to go back to the root of it and go,
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what if that's not true? Mmm.
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We do feel sorry for Ross, though, don't we? So sorry for Ross.
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He didn't get his cash money.
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He didn't get his cash money,
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he didn't get the chance to avenge his mother's death. No!
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That was such a big plan, he was like,
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"I'm going to avenge her death."
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No, no, you're not, mate. Not so much.
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You think you're Batman, you're actually Bananaman.
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It was very sad to see him go.
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So, obviously, we'll ask Ross this a little bit later on,
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but do we think he had any chance of surviving after he was recruited?
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Yes, I think he could have done.
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I think he became a little bit too Traitorous too soon,
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trying to play games against his two fellow Traitors,
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who were the veterans in the game at this point. Yeah.
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I think if he'd laid low for that episode, just let it sink in...
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Like Andrew did, really. Yeah, exactly.
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Just took his time a little bit. Then he could have...
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Because he was already under suspicion anyway.
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I think he was just trying his best to throw off the suspicion
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onto someone else.
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It's the work experience getting too big for his boots.
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We should talk about the mission, we've mentioned it
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a couple of times, but let's get properly stuck into it.
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It was a difficult one, I thought.
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I think there were some tricky questions in there.
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This series had been lacking
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in puzzles up until this point, I thought.
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And Zack made what I would call a classic Zack blunder,
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so let's just remind ourselves of that.
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Whoa! Fucking hell! Oh, my God.
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The net just went whoosh,
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just took him up in the air.
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It was like a scene out of Predator,
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it was absolutely mental.
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The money!
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It's in here!
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Can you chuck it out?
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There's no hole. There's no hole at all.
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Oh, my God.
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LAUGHTER
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I just loved the way, even the first moment he got caught,
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he's still in there and he's sort of talking as if he's got it right
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and something's gone wrong.
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The only person in this game who would try and maintain
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intellectual high ground while they're stuck in a big net.
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He's been very confident, Zack. Yeah.
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It's going to be interesting to see if he survives this murder.
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I will say, in fairness to Zack, at least he's actually trying.
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A lot of them are just sitting back
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and letting everyone else do the work. Yeah.
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Which is the smart thing to do, I have to say. So, it's difficult.
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I empathise with the guy. I feel for him.
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You're right, he voices his opinions,
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he makes sure they're out there. He does.
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Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong,
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but when they're wrong, it certainly doesn't stop him voicing them.
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Well put. His confidence is never knocked by a mistake. Yep.
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Is there anyone else that we think is playing
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a good game at the moment?
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I think Evie's going to win the series.
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Even in our discussions, she's just glided through.
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We got a bit back story from her about the adaptability of vets,
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I loved that. Yes!
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I've been waiting for the vet thing to come back in
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ever since the two-vet revelation of episode one.
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I found that riveting, the way that she has to code switch,
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essentially, between putting down a beloved puppy and then being
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excited when an eight-year-old brings in their hamster or whatever.
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And you're so right, she's completely flown under the radar.
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00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,440
Because wasn't she in the same category as Jasmine and Ross,
246
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,040
of people it could be because she didn't know about the shield. Yes.
247
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:31,280
The only downside to playing it like Evie's playing it is that you
248
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,600
could just get murdered at night.
249
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,560
That's the tricky thing with being a Faithful.
250
00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,880
I think the way she's playing it is the best way,
251
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,880
it increases your chances the most to win,
252
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,120
but because people might think, the Traitors will think, she's not going
253
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,160
to get banished any time soon, so we're going to have to murder her.
254
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,160
She's playing a great game and is very calm, as well, crucially.
255
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,200
If anyone does accuse her or chats to her,
256
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,080
she seems to be quite collected. So's Mollie.
257
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,760
Mollie and her are gliding both under the radar.
258
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,320
I don't think Mollie's name's been brought up at all. No.
259
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,920
So, Ross will be with us in just a minute,
260
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,040
so I think it's time to revisit his revelation at the Round Table.
261
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,760
Well, guys, there is not a lot of us now.
262
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,880
It's a bit mad, we've all got far in this game
263
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,920
and each and every one of you, I had a real, real connection with.
264
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,680
And, look, I'll just leave you with one little Easter egg before I go.
265
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,160
I was actually the son of someone in this game.
266
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,120
And that person was Diane.
267
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,400
No fucking way!
268
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,640
Oh, my God!
269
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,000
And he's here with us now,
270
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,480
the only Traitor to not pass his probation period, it's Ross!
271
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,880
CHEERING
272
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,840
Ross, welcome. Yeah! Boss Ross!
273
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,160
Thanks so much for coming on Uncloaked, Ross.
274
00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,720
Absolute pleasure, absolute pleasure. And what an entry, right?
275
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:01,960
Yeah, what an entry. Mental.
276
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,760
Did it feel good to get that off your chest?
277
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,080
Was that something you were looking forward to doing?
278
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,760
Yeah, massively, massively.
279
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,760
At the same time, it was surprisingly easy to call her Diane.
280
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,200
Really easy. A lot of people have been talking about that,
281
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,760
how are you not just accidentally saying Mum? I don't know!
282
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,520
I genuinely thought that was going to be the thing that tripped me up
283
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,280
but as it got into the game... As someone who said it to
284
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,600
pretty much every teacher at some point at school... Yes, yeah!
285
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,240
You know, it's one of those things, sometimes I call her Diane at home,
286
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:30,800
when I'm trying to be a bit cheeky.
287
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,520
You know what she gets like,
288
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,520
she is like a teacher and she's like a teacher at home.
289
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,480
There are lots of redeeming qualities, as well, obviously,
290
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,040
she's not just all glares and stares and trying to point the finger
291
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,360
at people. She is nice, as well.
292
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,520
But it was genuinely, surprisingly easy.
293
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,760
I thought maybe during some of the challenges and stuff, that might
294
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,000
be the moment where I just go into autopilot and shout, "Mum!"
295
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,080
Whatever, "Mum, watch out for the light."
296
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,680
But, no, Diane just was dead easy coming to me.
297
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:02,880
I don't know what that says.
298
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,920
Was there any moment that you two had planned to come out as a tactic?
299
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,880
Or were you always going to keep it a secret?
300
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,680
We were always going to keep it a secret.
301
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:14,160
Obviously, we watched season one with you and Tom, we saw that...
302
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,760
You're saying that didn't convince you to come out?
303
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,680
No, surprisingly not, no!
304
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,920
It was one of those things. I think, especially at the start,
305
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,280
everyone is looking for any excuse to get you out.
306
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,320
In fact, that is the case the whole way through, so if they're like,
307
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,200
"Oh, if they can keep that secret, what else can they keep secret?"
308
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,840
So, we were always just like...
309
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,880
Unless somebody saw the resemblance,
310
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,680
but Paul obviously just did a blinder, covering that up
311
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,080
and I wasn't going to stop that rumour from circulating.
312
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,880
I do need to ask, have you guys been referred to
313
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,320
as Diana Ross ever before in your lives?
314
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,800
Never. Genuinely never. Amazing!
315
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,520
I swear, I don't know how people haven't made that connection.
316
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,400
That is the best thing I've ever heard.
317
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,680
Well, you know about your code name on set, right?
318
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,840
OK. Apparently, the crew and production on set at The Traitors,
319
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,120
in the actual castle were calling you and Diane and The Supremes.
320
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,520
GASP
321
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,520
That's amazing.
322
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,080
That's way better than what I thought you were going to say.
323
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,720
So, I'm glad it's just The Supremes.
324
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,320
LAUGHTER
325
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,840
That's fantastic, you know?
326
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,360
Yeah, it's... I don't... It's the funniest thing ever.
327
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,600
Like, the memes have been the funniest thing ever.
328
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,560
It's been what's given me life after the show.
329
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,320
I've had "But Ross is" put on a T-shirt.
330
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,040
LAUGHTER
331
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,760
You've got to commit to these things. I actually trademarked that.
332
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,800
So, you're going to have a legal battle, I think.
333
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,440
I mean, we should say Ivo's wearing a T-shirt, for the Sounds listeners,
334
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,600
he's wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Diane's face
335
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,680
and "But Ross is" is written on it.
336
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,000
Ivo had that made.
337
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,280
He did not know Diane was going to be on this episode.
338
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,400
He did not know you were going to be on this episode.
339
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,560
So I'd imagine he's hugely embarrassed right now.
340
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880
No, I love it. I love it. Can I get a copy?
341
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,560
Can I get a shirt? I had a T-shirt for every contestant.
342
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,160
My Evie, you know, "You've got to be skilled to be a vet"
343
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,800
T-shirt, that's in the bag.
344
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,080
Well, I have to say, that brings me on nicely,
345
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,520
I've got a little present, which, Ivo, think I'm actually
346
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,560
going to give to you, mate, because... Oh!
347
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,160
I've got a mug.
348
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,520
"I'm not a mug, but Ross is." Oh, my gosh.
349
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,040
Wow. It's an absolute merch-off!
350
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,040
Ivo, there's something about someone holding
351
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,960
and wearing two pieces of home-made merch
352
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,680
that makes you look like an absolute saddo.
353
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,480
You're a superfan, mate.
354
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,440
And Mum might come on later and she'll invite you to a roast dinner.
355
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,000
So, like, you know... I've heard they're rubbish.
356
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,040
Now, Ross, you were obviously welcomed very late on
357
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,280
into The Traitors' fold.
358
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,560
So let's remind ourselves of that.
359
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,120
There's something about that cloak which has already given me
360
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,760
a little bit of power.
361
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,360
Traitor Ross is in full force.
362
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,560
Golden boy Harry murdered my mum.
363
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:53,600
I'm livid.
364
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,080
So, look, Harry, mate, I'm coming for you, man.
365
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,920
Oh, wow. I mean, we would have liked to have seen
366
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,520
the revenge plan play out, I think.
367
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,120
I was really looking forward to The Traitors just turning into,
368
00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:06,360
like, a samurai film. I thought you were going to go
369
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,760
all guns blazing and really take out Harry.
370
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,120
When you had this big revenge plan to take out Harry,
371
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:15,320
maybe take out Andrew, was there actually a plan in there
372
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,840
or did you just know you wanted to get some revenge?
373
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,720
No, the plan was to...
374
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,120
..just cause chaos within the ranks, right?
375
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:26,480
So, turn those two against each other, have Andrew on my side,
376
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,720
and then also just try and get Harry's name out there
377
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,280
in whatever way I could, because at that point, he was just so solid.
378
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,760
Like, he's got such a sweet face on him, doesn't he?
379
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,360
He's Baby Harry. Like... You've got a sweet face, too, though.
380
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,040
Don't do yourself down. No? Yeah? OK.
381
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,440
I mean, I feel like every time the camera turned to me, I'm like this.
382
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,080
I'm Diane's son, you know what I mean?
383
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,280
Like, I'm just sussing people out, always.
384
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,200
You know, so there was, like...
385
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,800
There was a plan, but I had, what, 12 hours to sort the plan out?
386
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,600
So I was trying to pit them against each other.
387
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,600
And because obviously Andrew was going, "Oh, you know,"
388
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,800
I didn't realise Andrew was so cottoned on to the fact
389
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,200
that Harry was probably going to murder him at some point.
390
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,480
He didn't seem the type.
391
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,520
Andrew is such a lovable, big, friendly giant, you know?
392
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,720
That's just the kind of way he is.
393
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,040
Andrew was cottoned on from the moment he was recruited.
394
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,080
He went in there and when, I think it was Paul was still there,
395
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,520
and Paul said, "Oh, you know, you're a Traitor now,
396
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:27,960
"you've just got to trust us."
397
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,640
And Andrew went, "Trust you?!"
398
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,040
Like, he was immediately, immediately didn't buy it.
399
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,600
It was incredible. So, yeah... See, I didn't see all that.
400
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,720
So, you know, like in my head I was like,
401
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,440
"I'm really going to have to sway Andrew
402
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,160
"because I think he's going to be such in Harry's pocket."
403
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,720
So that was the game plan, really.
404
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,400
But, obviously, then Harry went straight to Andrew,
405
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,120
they chatted, Andrew started lying.
406
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,440
Can we talk about Elusivegate quickly, please?
407
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,680
Because obviously I think... Scandal of our times. Fuming!
408
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,360
Andrew knows what it means, but also similarly
409
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,480
doesn't know the word and never uses it. But was that...
410
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,960
I mean, that must have been a hugely frustrating moment.
411
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,280
I felt that frustration for you at the Round Table,
412
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,840
because you were sat there being gaslit at the Round Table.
413
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,200
Andrew gaslit me. Yeah. He did, yeah.
414
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,520
No, you know, I think, at that point, genuinely, I knew I was out.
415
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,680
It came from breakfast, where I hadn't even had a sip of coffee
416
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,160
and Zack was just like, br-br-br-br-br - "Yeah, it's you."
417
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,640
Do you know what I mean?
418
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,000
And, you know, he had... His theory was good. Wrong.
419
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,200
It was wrong.
420
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,880
Can I just say on that, I think that upset me
421
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,280
because the breakfast table, that should be sacred.
422
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,680
I agree. Right?
423
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,560
"Don't accuse me of being a Traitor until I've had my egg." Yeah.
424
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,480
Eat your croissants in peace. You know, like, I didn't get that.
425
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,040
"This is not the Round Table, it's the breakfast table."
426
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,240
So, Zack was so articulate and so focused in his theories.
427
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,200
And whenever... And, like, they made sense. Some of them didn't.
428
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,920
Obviously, it was the wrong theory.
429
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,880
And it just so happened that the night before,
430
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,520
I got made a Traitor, so...
431
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,840
So, it made it a lot kind of more difficult to react
432
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,080
in a more genuine way of being like, "Look, I'm not, I'm a Faithful."
433
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,720
Like "What you're saying is not right."
434
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:19,120
I kind of, off the back of that, used just the excuse of, like,
435
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,080
knowing that his theory was wrong, right?
436
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,920
You know, it was the fact that I was upstairs
437
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,520
and I didn't see who had a shield.
438
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,040
And, obviously, that was all done very tactically.
439
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,080
And it was a good theory.
440
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,640
But, you know, as soon as that happened, you just feel
441
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,120
the energy in the castle kind of get turned against you.
442
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:38,080
So, you sensed that it might have been your last day?
443
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,000
Yeah, I knew it was my last day. I knew it was.
444
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,720
Ross, it was great watching you. You were fantastic in the castle.
445
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,760
Thank you so much for coming on Uncloaked.
446
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,160
But we're not done with you yet
447
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,640
because we have another special guest on this episode.
448
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,280
But before we bring her in, let's watch the moment that Zack
449
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,080
gets called out for his mother-and-son theory.
450
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,440
So, Zack, hold on.
451
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,240
I've been hearing some rumours.
452
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,680
Oh, yeah? Go on? You think that my son's in this game?
453
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,760
I just think you and Paul look a little bit alike.
454
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,880
I think you've got the same eyes. The two gingers.
455
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,160
I dye my hair red.
456
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,360
I think Paul looks quite Irish, too. He does, actually, yeah.
457
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,200
Diane, are you hiding something?
458
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:19,600
LAUGHTER
459
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,960
And she's here with us now, back on Uncloaked, it's Diane!
460
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,880
WHOOPING AND APPLAUSE
461
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,160
Welcome back, Diane. Thank you.
462
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,880
That was that was a wonderful moment.
463
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,760
I love that moment, especially as you were totally across what Zack
464
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,760
had said, that he thought Paul was your son, but obviously
465
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,800
you hadn't heard, Ross? First time. First time.
466
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,200
So, you were you were completely behind and you were like,
467
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,400
"Oh, no, the game's up. We've been rumbled."
468
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,360
Yeah. Well, yeah, to a degree. It was more just shock.
469
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:47,160
But also, Mum gets a little twinkle in her eye
470
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,120
so you know when she's just having a joke.
471
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,440
So I just had to very quickly cotton on to the fact that,
472
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,080
you know, it was Paul and not me. But, yeah, very much.
473
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,800
You can see the surprise in my face. I'm just like...
474
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,880
But equally, though, I deliberately
475
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,120
did it when he was in the room because I found out that if you tell
476
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,200
a story and Ross isn't in the room, then it could backfire on me
477
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,080
because he might tell the same story
478
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,720
and then, "How does Ross have the same story as Diane?
479
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,200
"That's very weird." Of course.
480
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,680
So, it was also deliberately done because it was quite...
481
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,200
I mean, it's quite stressful talking about something
482
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,160
and you're not in the room, and then I had to make sure
483
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,560
that I repeated the story.
484
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,400
So I didn't do that deliberately to catch you out.
485
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,640
And you've also got to try and land the line, as well.
486
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,120
Because you are under stress and if you're trying to make a bit
487
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,080
of a joke or whatever, you know, just like the roast dinner line,
488
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,520
I could have delivered it so much better. But there's a lot of stress
489
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,480
when you're delivering something like that.
490
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,360
So, you know, it doesn't quite come out like you want it
491
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:42,800
and you're trying to have a joke.
492
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,000
But I love those little moments because, personally,
493
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,600
if I was in that situation, I'd be so worried about it coming out
494
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,080
that I wouldn't be brave enough
495
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,400
to start throwing around jokes in there.
496
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,480
No, but we weren't until Paul was brought up as my son.
497
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,440
And then I thought, "This is fabulous."
498
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,880
Because then somebody might have said, Ross,
499
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,960
and I'd have gone, "Yeah, yeah, he's my son."
500
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,800
"Ash is my sister. Kyra's my brother."
501
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,600
You know, "I'll just take you all on." So, that would have been OK.
502
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,280
As soon as the Paul thing happened, I relaxed.
503
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,400
I thought it was such a good decision, though,
504
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,760
and you guys had so much fun with it. I do, particularly.
505
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,760
It's one of my favourite moments of the series.
506
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,040
It's after you had gone, Diane... Thanks. ..and Ross was...
507
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,600
Thank God you went because, frankly,
508
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,360
I've been enjoying it so much more since.
509
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:25,720
It was Ross in the car.
510
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,960
Now we've already showed this clip, but you're going to love this.
511
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,560
Let's have another look.
512
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,680
Diane would be looking down on us now.
513
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,360
IRISH ACCENT: "Go get that Traitors guy."
514
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,200
LAUGHTER
515
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,200
"Go get the Traitors now."
516
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,520
IRISH ACCENT: "Absolutely!"
517
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,680
I love her! She was like my mum. No, no, she WAS my mum.
518
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,440
She was my mum first. My mum first! No, stop it.
519
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,320
My mum.
520
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,840
Oh, the fourth wall.
521
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,080
Amazing. Outstanding. So good.
522
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,240
What I want to know, is that the only time you did that
523
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,720
or is that the only one they show?
524
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,480
Were you just winking at every camera?
525
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,200
That's the only one they showed.
526
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,960
But, you know, even that wink, I'm looking at it, going,
527
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,120
"Oh, I could have delivered that better."
528
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,480
But it's a lot of pressure. There's just a lot of pressure
529
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,840
when you're trying to do all those little sneaky things.
530
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,280
No, it was fantastic. It was a real highlight.
531
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,960
Now, we do want to talk about the funeral. I think particularly
532
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,200
Elizabeth is desperate to talk about the funeral. Yes!
533
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,560
I do have questions about the funeral written down here,
534
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,440
but I'm just going to hand over to Elizabeth
535
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,560
because she's absolutely gagging to talk about the funeral.
536
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,840
I found it so profoundly moving.
537
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,040
I didn't understand what was wrong.
538
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,560
Like, I was welling up.
539
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,720
That moment when you went across, and you saw your beloved mum
540
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,560
in a coffin, and you whispered "Bye" to him,
541
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,600
I found I was genuinely about to cry.
542
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,240
What is that experience like for both of you?
543
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,360
I was ready to text my siblings being, like,
544
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,640
"It's finally happened, guys. It's happened."
545
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,240
No more roasts! Yes, the day has come.
546
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,920
And then, when she appeared, when I left, I was going, "Oh, fuck."
547
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,280
You know when you went, "Yes!",
548
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,200
when Sonja revealed she was a Faithful?
549
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,280
I wanted you to do that when the coffin lid shut.
550
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,320
"Yes! Party time!"
551
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,960
In all seriousness, it was a mixture of emotions cos, you know,
552
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,240
at the end of the day, you are seeing your mum
553
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,280
getting put in a coffin.
554
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,960
You shouldn't have winked. I think that was a mistake.
555
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,640
Yeah, it was an odd choice.
556
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,880
And hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?
557
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,040
But, you know, it was a mixture of, one, because obviously,
558
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,400
as well, it's still a secret, right, at this point?
559
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,520
So, you kind of have... But it is emotional.
560
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,880
But then, at the same time, you can't show too much emotion
561
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,040
because then, the other contestants are going to be, like,
562
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,760
"Why is Ross crying?"
563
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,320
Like, "I didn't know him and Diane were so close."
564
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,360
And also, when I was in the coffin, I knew.
565
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:42,320
So, I was waiting for him to look over and I wanted to say,
566
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,920
"Love you,"
567
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,560
but I didn't want to move my...
568
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,760
Aww! I know this does sound mental... No, it doesn't.
569
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,760
..move my mouth twice, there would have been two words.
570
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,880
So, "Love, you." Whereas, "Bye."
571
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,840
I could do that and I wouldn't be noticed because
572
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,320
I'm still, like, "Oh, my God," you know?
573
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,440
And then you thought I'd said, "Miles" anyway.
574
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,800
So he didn't even think I'd said "Bye". "Miles", her dying words!
575
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,000
Yeah, yeah. I was like, "Miles?" Like, "Is that your actual son?"
576
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,360
Yeah, exactly.
577
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:12,160
So, you know, and when I went away, I had all these weird theories
578
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,560
about who had actually done it because I still wasn't sure
579
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,280
it was Miles. And then, I thought, "Shit, I've left him there
580
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,920
"with some Traitors. I could have warned him."
581
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,720
Then I got cross about that because it is mental, this game.
582
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,080
Now, Diane, you're something of a fan favourite.
583
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,600
Very, very popular online.
584
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,480
But did you know you're actually sat in the room with one of your biggest
585
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,720
fans apart from your own son?
586
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,480
If you just want to turn around, because Ivo's had something made.
587
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,000
He didn't know you were going to be on this episode, but, Ivo,
588
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,520
would you like to reveal to Diane?
589
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,480
I've been wearing it since day one. "But Ross is."
590
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,800
Oh, my God, could you not have got a nicer photograph?
591
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,760
If you don't like this photograph, you're not going to enjoy the rest
592
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,360
of your life, because this is you forever.
593
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:52,720
We've talked about the Sunday roast thing a little bit,
594
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,440
but you've been having quite a lot of fun with that online, Diane.
595
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,880
So, let's just have a look at this picture that you posted.
596
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,280
Wonderful.
597
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,640
That's going to be on my T-shirt.
598
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,560
Yeah, that's a better picture of me, that's OK. Yeah.
599
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,800
This looks like a restaurant. Is this your house?
600
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,360
That's my house, in the middle of building work. Very lovely.
601
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:13,760
I do need to know, though, Ross, what is it
602
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,800
that makes Diane's roasts so poor?
603
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,360
Wow, you really went there, Alex?
604
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,080
I'm curious.
605
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,920
You know he's talking shit, don't you? They're excellent!
606
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,880
I'm absolutely not. No, listen.
607
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,680
The roast potatoes, ten out of ten. Yeah, they look good.
608
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,920
They are good. They're the hardest part to get right.
609
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,600
Her roast potatoes are good because she just deep-fat fries them
610
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,520
and it's just be done with it, deep-fat fried.
611
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,760
So, they they're chips? They're just big chunky chips.
612
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,200
They're parboiled first, come on!
613
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,240
But, you know like there's certain people, you know,
614
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,720
who like their steak medium-rare, medium, whatever?
615
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,280
Mum loves hers well done.
616
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,880
So, like, that kind of tells you all you need to know.
617
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,000
Good with chicken, though. The turkey's dry, the chicken.
618
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,200
The roast beef's excellent though.
619
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Yeah, the roast beef's good. She cremates it, you know?
620
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,840
We are going to continue the chat over on BBC Sounds now, of course,
621
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,680
where we'll be playing a little game with Diane and Ross to see how well
622
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,320
they really know each other.
623
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,280
It's all in the bonus episode of Uncloaked,
624
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,800
available on BBC Sounds right now.
625
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,640
A massive thanks to Elizabeth, Alex, Diane, Ivo and Ross.
626
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,320
Thank you so much for joining me tonight
627
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,360
and thank you very much for watching.
628
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:21,320
Don't forget, if you want to play along at home, you can submit
629
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,680
your own predictions via The Traitors Prediction Game.
630
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,240
Just go to bbc.co.uk/traitors and give it a go.
631
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,400
The Traitors: Uncloaked will be back tomorrow.
632
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,480
We are nearing the end of an absolutely incredible series
633
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,240
and I, for one, cannot wait to see what happens.
634
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,240
I've been Ed Gamble, stay Faithful!
54382
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