Original subtitles

This programme contains some strong language

Now, of course, there is a spoiler warning at the top of this episode,

because if you have not seen Traitors Episode 4,

your whole life's going to be ruined if you watch this now.

So go onto the iPlayer, watch The Traitors,

then come back here and watch The Traitors: Uncloaked

cos there's some spoilers coming right now.

Coming up, we'll see the moment that banished Brian and murdered Kyra

find out exactly who the Traitors are.

Brian will be in the studio to talk about that sheep comment

and that Round Table.

And Ash will be in the studio, talking to us about the banishment

and about all of the double dealings that led her there.

Plus, we have our very special guests, Joel Dommett

and Giovanni Pernice!

CHEERS AND APPLAUSE

JOEL: Oh, there IS a clap! There's a clap.

Yeah. I didn't expect the clap! You didn't expect the clap? We have...

We have a sort of pod crew who are very much...

Very much. They're lovely.

Whooping people in corners of this tiny room.

Hello and welcome to The Traitors: Uncloaked.

Of course, you join us here in the basement of...a castle?

Castle-ish? Who knows?

It's definitely a basement, we know that much.

We have got a lot to talk about in tonight's episode, as I say.

Massive, massive thing happened -

of course, the Faithful finally caught a Traitor!

Sirens, please!

SIREN WAILS

I haven't been this excited since we saw Andrew in the shower.

Yeah, huge, guys. Huge!

Obviously, we've got to talk about Ash's very awkward chat

with the other Traitors, especially Paul and Harry,

after they voted for her -

it's probably the most awkward moment in the series so far -

and the dark and dingy dungeon with two Traitors.

Obviously, we've... We've had our first Traitor being caught.

We've not seen Ash reveal herself as a Traitor yet,

but we know she's going to do it. She has to.

You can't lie at that point.

But...what are our instant reactions to Ash being caught?

I'm actually... Actually happy.

I'm actually happy that she's out. Are you?!

Yeah, I think she didn't play the right game as a Traitor.

I think she... She panicked too much.

She wanted to be friends with everybody.

But I think when you're a Traitor, you have to lay back,

you need to...let everybody else do their job,

like, you know, Paul is doing, like Harry's doing.

You know, these people, they know exactly what they're doing.

And I think she was a bit too worried

to be friends with everybody.

You're the Traitors, mate! You have to step back, relax!

Obviously, they got themselves into a bit of a tricky situation anyway,

with the Ash banishment.

They pretty much had to banish Ash at that point.

"Banish Ash" is the hard thing to say. Banish Ash! "Banish-ash!"

She puts the "Ash" in "Ban-Ash-ment".

Oh, we should have called it The Ban-Ash-ment

right from the beginning of the episode! Come on!

Let's start this again! We'll start it again!

It's The Ban-Ash-ment! We need to talk about Ash.

And we need to talk about Ash going back to the Turret

after Harry and Paul tried to banish her. Awkward!

Let's be reminded of the most awkward moment of the series so far.

SIGHS

Oh, my God!

She is pissed!

You OK? I'm very fucking pissed off.

Dear me! Never has someone taken off a hood in such...

Like, when you take off a hood, you take it off in a confident,

like, "I'm being revealed" way! Yeah.

Whereas she just sort of, like... THEY LAUGH

..removed it. And the look that she gave to them...

I know! I'd be... I'd absolutely crumble under that look.

Yeah. But let's talk about the way Paul reacted to that,

because he was so relaxed, he was so calm,

and he managed to defuse that situation immediately

and seemed to convince Ash straight away that he had to do it -

and it wasn't that he wanted to banish her,

he just saw that for the game plan...

And Harry was going, "Yeah, we didn't actually think you'd go,

"so that's why we said it."

Very, very clever work from both of them. So clever!

Again, this is why he's an absolute kingpin.

He's like a Ginger Godfather.

He's thinking about, like, two steps ahead.

Like, "OK, she's obviously going to say this to me.

"This is my reasoning behind it."

And it completely covered his tracks. Yeah. It's just...

He's really playing it excellently.

I think this episode might have shown us his first mistake

and a little bit of cockiness... Mm-hm.

..because obviously when it came to decide

who was going into the dungeon and they decided to put Ash in,

they told her that was because that'll mark her out,

knowing full well that everyone would immediately go,

"Well, she's put herself in there." Yeah.

But she didn't see through that, unfortunately.

But he also thought that they were going to save him.

Exactly, and I think this is the issue. That's cocky. Very cocky.

He put himself in there thinking, "I'll be saved,

"then we murder Andrew, then Meg gets banished,"

I guess was the original game plan. Yeah. Yeah.

My first thought was -

when they said that you can put four people there -

"What about if the four Traitors, they would've gone all downstairs?"

They all wanted Ash to go anyway, so they would save somebody...

Well, but a Traitor can't murder a Traitor.

Come on, let's kill everybody!

If the Traitors go into the Turret, and they all go,

"I'm going to kill you!"... LAUGHS: Yeah!

..then that's the end of the game.

But in a sense, that's what's happening. We should talk...

We should talk about the mission, of course, because this proved

to be very, very important this week,

because the two Traitors were on the same team.

They had no influence if they lost, which they did,

over who was being saved... Mm-hm.

..which sort of messed their plan up a little bit.

But let's talk about the mission itself,

getting across the wobbly bridge and carrying golden nuggets.

Mm-hm. It was funny.

It was funny. It was a little bit of You've Been Framed

in The Traitors, which is what we needed, I think!

It's not often they have to blow the dust off the funny music.

LAUGHS: It was! And that's what I really like about it,

where it's, like, really serious... HE IMITATES DRAMATIC MUSIC

..and then it's like Miles going... HE GROANS SHAKILY

Well, poor Miles, he knew that he had to win it for his team,

so they had the decision of who to save... Not a chance!

..but he just knew. He just went, "It's not up my street.

No! At one point, he was just fully stood up straight and just...

And then plopped... Was it at the moment where he went,

"I've got it, I've got it! No, I haven't"?

LAUGHTER

It was wonderful.

Bless him. We love Miles.

But I think there was... There was a bit of a hero in this mission

for me, and that was Jonny, who had my favourite technique.

Let's have a little reminder.

CLAUDIA: Ooh! Well done! Well done, Jonny!

Go on, Jon! Come on, Jonny Boy!

I think he's got over 100 quid. Will he make it?

Obviously I've got one leg,

so I went for the full body balance approach

and just kind of hurdled onto it.

I'm a bit fearless with things like this.

Legend, bro! Go on, Jonny!

I don't mind banging me head, I don't mind cutting me arm,

I don't mind me leg falling off.

It don't bother me.

The only contestant who can say that last one!

Yes, unless he was talking about the OTHER leg!

Yeah... In which case... You know, that's a different situation.

He's an absolutely amazing player.

I think maybe that background in the military

and seeing combat probably prepares you for The Traitors, cos what...

You know, what can be genuinely more terrifying

than being a serving soldier, right?

I mean, absolutely. And I think it really prepares you,

and the fact that Harry's got that experience as well,

I think it prepares you for the physical elements

as well as the elements of just sort of being integrated in a group

and understanding...sort of almost your role in things,

because they're used to having, you know, people who are above them

and below them and where you stand in the group.

And... Yeah. I think he's going to go really far.

I think every military people in the world,

their dream is to be part of Traitors.

They want to be Traitors, they want to be part of Traitors.

So that is now the stepping stone? Absolutely. Yes.

Now, do you remember last time when I showed you an exclusive video

of the banished and murdered players finding out who the Traitors are?

Well, I've gone and got you another one.

Let's have a look now at Brian and Kyra finding out the big news.

Oh, my God!

How did it end up being you? I know.

Oh, you look amazing. Thank you.

So, are you a Traitor or a Faithful?

What do you think? Since you're such a good judge of character!

THEY LAUGH

No, I think you're a Faithful, mate.

Yeah, Faithful, yeah. Yeah.

I was about to ask you...

THEY LAUGH

No, yeah, definitely a Faithful. I'd be a shit Traitor!

THEY LAUGH

Yeah, I really would!

So...should we see who the Traitors are?

Yeah. Go for it.

Let's see if I'm a good judge of characters and that.

Ash.

HE GROANS

I knew it.

Oh, my God!

I told you!

I'm so annoyed!

You should be.

SHE LAUGHS

You actually should be. Sorry, mate, but...

I don't think she reacted well to being called out yesterday.

Mmm. Oh, my God, I absolutely hate her!

I really... I really like her.

I just said I hated her and liked her. No, I don't like her.

I said something yesterday as well.

I was like, "I'd rather be a sheep than a snake."

And she's a snake - cos she's so nice to me.

I'm going to give her a cuddle when see her, though!

No. At the end of the day, mate, it's Traitors, do you get it?

Oh, that's mad! Right, so...yeah.

Crack on with this next one? Yeah!

Oh, my God!

Harry.

Oh, my God! Two! I am ridiculous!

Do you know why Harry will get far?

Because he's similar to me, in the sense that he speaks out,

he's not scared to show his opinion, so people wouldn't suspect him -

because it's like, "I'm being myself, I've got nothing to lose,

"da-da-da-da." I think Jaz might be... I don't think it's Jaz.

But let's see.

SHE GASPS

What?!

Paul. Oh, is it...? This one shocks me.

Miles!

That's mental!

HE LAUGHS

I'm speechless.

Harry and Miles are going to go... Go home with the money. Mmm!

It depends how savage it does get,

cos Miles, I would have never suspected, but... Never!

..now that I know he is a Traitor, he's going to go very far.

This game's so good! Let's see the last one.

Last one?! How many's that?

THEY LAUGH

There's four?

JOEL: Great. Yeah.

Paul.

And I voted for him yesterday! I'm...

I think I'm better at this game than you think.

Yeah, maybe. He also...

He didn't stand up for me yesterday when everyone was going in on me.

Why would he want me out, though? He's been so friendly to me.

I am naive! I think you need to...

THEY LAUGH

..put your head more in the game, in the sense that it's Traitors.

Traitors are going to win this year.

Well, he may be na-i-i-ive, but he joins us right now.

Brian's with us in the studio!

WHOOPS AND APPLAUSE

Oh, my mouth!

Welcome. I mean, that was incredible to watch, Brian.

You seemed surprised by every single Traitor reveal.

Yeah. I'm surprised at my reactions when I was doing them.

THEY LAUGH

Like...yeah.

No, I think I AM naive. I just think everyone likes me,

and I like them... Well, I think they probably like you,

but it's their job to be Traitors, right? Yeah, that's true.

I just... I want to sort of just let you talk,

because I loved you at the banishment so much,

when you cut in... You were nervous! ..and delivered your monologue.

I think, honestly, I know you're worried about it,

but it was a wonderful moment.

I thought you came across brilliantly.

If it's not too painful,

can we remind ourselves of that moment right now?

Can I have a really selfish moment?

Erm... I'll try and be quick cos I realise this was going to end soon.

So that's why I wanted to say something.

It's so fun to watch!

LAUGHTER

It's so... Is it? Is it?! Honestly!

It reminds me of sort of, like, Harry Potter,

if he wasn't a wizard, just falling apart at school.

It just... It's... Like Ed said, I know you will be probably worried

watching it, but it does come across as really endearing. Yes.

And because you were a Faithful, not a Traitor, it's so...

It's so real, it's so truthful, it's someone who's just like...

You could see that level of desperation.

Suddenly, when your name is in the mix,

you feel like it's your last hurrah, just to make sure that...

When you're like, "Oh... Can we put our hands up?

"Everyone, put their hands up!" It's just so... It's so truthful.

Which is why it's crazy to me that you doing that

is what got you banished...

Mmm. ..because I would never see someone do something like that

and think they're a Traitor... Agreed. ..because I don't think any Traitor would do that.

They'd just shut down and close off... Exactly. ..instead of putting themselves out there.

Because I think at this stage of the game,

everyone is still just looking for someone who marks themselves out

doing anything, whether they think they're a Traitor or not. Yeah.

So I think... I think that's what happened.

My reasoning for doing that was cos I had no idea...

The whole sheep thing was in the back of my head,

so I was like, "I don't want to..." I probably would have went for Ash

or Diane, cos that's what everyone was kind of going for,

but maybe that was in the back of my head. So I was like, "I have no-one to put down,"

so I had to go on people that I thought would maybe stand up for me,

and then they never, because that's just what I'm like as a person,

just like...a bit all over the place.

Nervous or not, under pressure or not, I'm kind of like that a little bit.

So I was like, "Why are you not jumping in to help me here?"

"Are you just... Are you a Traitor sitting back

"and just letting the chaos kind of go?"

That's a good tactic for a Traitor,

is just to let it kind of all just bubble over.

So I was like, "One of you people who I think is going to back me up

"who's just sitting back, you must be a Traitor." So that's why I had to...make a choice.

We should talk about the sheep thing, because I think

that might have been the beginning of the end for you, certainly.

You started to crumble at that point... Yeah. ..because...

I mean, you got voted as the biggest sheep.

And I think most other people would probably take that in their stride

or just think, "Oh, mate, it's just a silly thing."

It really seemed to worm its way into your head.

And I could tell because you kept saying,

"The sheep thing doesn't bother me."

THEY LAUGH

"I'm fine! I'm fine!"

And you kept making the sheep noises. Yeah...

At the start, when I was making the sheep noises and things,

I did find it funny, but then it started to dawn on me -

"Oh, now people are thinking of me."

I didn't want... My whole plan was to...kind of be a sheep

and not be thought about at all at tables or murders

or anything like that.

So...your game plan was to be a sheep,

and when someone called you a sheep, you panicked and thought

it was all going wrong? Look, don't call me out!

But I do have something to show you, though, about that, cos...

I'm saying it doesn't really bother me too much,

but I've got a sheep tattoo.

Oh, my... Have you? ..goodness! Oh, I love it!

I love it. Wow.

You've got the sheep tattoo since being on the show, right?

That wasn't a coincidence. Yeah, I just love sheep, you know?

No, yeah, I just wanted...

I always wanted to get a tattoo to commemorate it,

and I wasn't going to get, like, Claudia's face on my back

or something like that. You should have! Yeah.

She has a pretty face. She has a very good face.

The fringe would take up too much of the back.

No, I wanted something, though,

so I thought, "That's quite nice. Take control of it

"so I'm not getting baa'd at on the street."

I'm glad you went out early because it would have been shearing season.

Giovanni, in this episode, there was a big discussion

of the definition of al dente. Yeah.

Were you happy with... with what they decided on?

No, not really.

I mean, al dente is something that, you know, it's not cooked...enough.

Yeah. And sometimes it's not really easy to swallow as well. Yeah.

So al dente... Well, it's also different al dente around the world.

The Italian al dente, of course, is the right thing to do,

but I will explain better on another show, which is called MasterChef.

Yes. It's a different thing. Yeah, I'm very intrigued, though.

That's OK. I will cook for you. I can't cook, by the way.

Yeah, we can't get too sidetracked on the al dente,

but I did want to know that.

Brian, how did it feel to have not caught a Traitor

when you were in there,

and then, one day later, they caught a Traitor?

That's... In that clip we watched, that's why I was so devastated,

because if I'd stuck to my game plan, kept my head, stayed cool,

I probably would have voted Ash out,

and that would have been a Traitor taken.

I was then thinking about Paul with my vote as well,

so it was so close. Yeah.

Yeah, it's gutting, how close I got. I would have loved...

That's maybe part of the experience I'm gutted I missed out on,

is having that cheering moment at the table.

Well, Brian, you may have said she was a snake in the VT,

but I'm sure you didn't mean that. Tell me you didn't mean it.

No, I did, yeah. OK.

Well, it's time to reunite you with our first caught Traitor.

Let's remind ourselves of Ash's speech around the Round Table.

I want to say,

I think that you're an absolutely magnificent group of people.

I don't think I've belly-laughed so much in a while.

So it's been an honour and a privilege.

# Whose side are you? #

I am...

Well, she joins us in the studio now.

It's Ash! There you are!

WHOOPING AND APPLAUSE

Woohoo!

Welcome, Ash. Sss! Sss!

ED LAUGHS

The sheep and the snake.

Wow. That old fable!

Have you got a tattoo of a snake on you yet?

No, but I might have some lamb in the oven.

Oh! Oh!

Before this absolutely descends out of control, um...

..Ash, we've obviously yet to see your reveal there -

we were left on tenterhooks. Yeah.

But how does it feel, watching that back?

That bit is OK.

I think it was the moments before that... Yeah.

..that I think, you know, when you're sat there,

around that Round Table, I mean, you know it's going to be...

It's going to be stressful, right? Mm-hm.

But when you're in that moment and everyone's at you,

my mind...my mind just went. Yeah. I couldn't even think of anything.

I couldn't even think of my name. Mm.

Like, I was saying words - words were coming out of my mouth,

and I didn't even know what I was saying. Honestly.

It was just that pressure of like, "Oh, my God!"

It's like being a deer in headlights.

Is that is that why you ended up voting for Evie, would you say?

Was it that moment of panic?

It was also.

But, in my mind... And I know this sounds a bit silly.

But in my mind, I was like, "I still want my Traitor boys to win."

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. See, this is the interesting thing.

I think you...you were the only one out of the Traitors

who seemed to see the Traitors as a team. Yeah!

Everyone else was ready to take each other out.

Because you win... Yeah. ..as a team!

But not...not on Traitors!

It's literally... Clearly not! They're called Traitors.

Yeah. Because obviously you had that moment

where you were nearly banished in the previous episode... Yeah.

..and then you went in all guns blazing back into the Turret.

You were like, "I'm going to take down Harry and Paul."

Yeah, I mean, I was raging. You were raging. I was raging!

Yeah. Really, like, hood off, cursing away. Yeah!

But then it seemed like Paul

managed to sort of defuse the situation so quickly.

And you immediately said, "Oh, I think there's an understanding now.

"That we're..." Suddenly everyone's friends again.

Forgetting, of course, that the show is called Traitors!

You know what? I gave him way... Like, that leash was way too long.

Yes. But in my mind, though, when he voted for me

and Harry voted for me, honestly, in my mind, I was thinking,

"I know Paul's the mastermind behind this." Mm. Yeah.

"He's got to be behind this."

So, in my mind, I was just thinking, "I've got to keep this guy close."

Mm-hm. And I just thought if I played that role of,

"OK, I'm going to be understanding," that's going to give me a chance

to come back and bite him in the neck, you know? Yeah.

But you never got... you never got that chance.

Didn't even get that chance.

Because not only did Harry and Paul vote for you again,

Miles was brought onside. So that was the end. Yeah, it was!

But Miles couldn't not vote for me, though, at that point. Yeah. Yes.

To be honest, because then he would have looked totally suspicious.

Yeah. But also there was the awkward situation of Meg being there.

So if Meg had been banished... Yeah.

..then no-one could have been murdered that night. Yeah.

And you know what? We didn't even consider that.

Yeah. Oh, really? That hadn't even crossed your minds?

No. No, no, no.

Because we genuinely, honestly, honestly thought

that people were going to save Paul. Mm. Yes. Because they loved him.

Everybody loved Paul. And in my mind, I was thinking...

When we were going down to the dungeon,

I was thinking to myself, "I need this one close to me.

"I'm not letting him out of my sight," you know?

"Because I don't want him steering narratives behind my back,"

which I knew that he would do.

I was thinking in my mind, that's what he was going to do.

I think picking Andrew for the dungeon was the mistake

because he was so popular. I think so.

So he was definitely competing for Paul's level of popularity.

And also, if you walked into a prison and Andrew was there,

Andrew's the daddy of any prison. 100%.

I'm surprised he stayed in the dungeon.

He could have just Hulk Smashed his way out! Yeah.

He walks out, there's an Andrew-shaped thing in the wall.

Let me tell you, that man is a beast. Yeah.

Cos when we were in the dungeon, and this is no lie,

it was freezing cold. Yeah. It was horrible.

It was dark, it was dank. We had these blankets...

You know, like, that really horrible feel of... Itchy blanket.

Itchy, itchy cloth. Yeah. And then it had, like,

rips and holes and it stank, and we're like...

But we were freezing, so we had to have it on us

and we were being fed...plop.

I'm not... That's the nicest way... What's the plop?

That's the nicest way I can put it.

Sorry, Ash, Giovanni's asked a question. What's the plop?

What is the plop?

It's... Can you have it al dente?

Yeah! Oh!

What's the plop? Er, plop...

Plop is a polite term for, um...shit.

Like, that's what we were given. And, honestly, dry pieces of bread.

I mean, you would have just... Yeah, you would have...

You seemed very surprised to be getting served this in a dungeon.

Yeah. I think I'd be expecting to get that.

I mean, I just... I really, honestly wasn't expecting it

to be as bad as that, and when it was...

So we couldn't eat.

But that Andrew - I'm telling you, the man is a beast. Yeah.

He finished his own. He finished mine. He finished Paul's.

He was eating everybody's plop? I'm not even joking.

All the while, doing pull-ups. Yeah!

Was he working out to, like, keep warm?

Let's take you all the way back to the beginning, though,

cos obviously we wanted to talk about your banishment,

but I want to talk about the moment that you were selected as a Traitor.

How did that feel when Claudia squeezed your shoulder?

That Round Table...

See that blindfold?

I swear, not even a tiny bit of light. Nothing.

And so it's really disorientating.

And all you can hear is Claudia's, like, boots.

Like, "Plap, plap, plap..." Do you know what I mean?

It's like, really... Plip-plopping. LAUGHING: Yeah!

No, it's a different plop.

I'm getting confused now. Claudia doesn't make everyone

put blindfolds on and then do a plop. She was wearing shoes...?

The only thing you could hear

was Claudia shitting around in a circle.

But, honestly, your heart is just beating so fast. Mm.

And I just kept thinking to myself,

"Breathe, but don't breathe too loudly.

"Because if she touches me...

"If I'm breathing too loudly, can somebody else hear me breathe?

"Like, just don't... just don't breathe. Stop breathing."

Do you know what I mean? It's so intense. Wow. It's so intense.

And what about the moment

that you got to put the cloak on for the first time?

Oh, my God, I loved that bit!

Cos there's quite a height disparity between all of the Traitors -

did they have to give you... You reckon? ..a shorter cloak

so you didn't trip over it on the way to the Turret?

Did you get measured for your cloak? To be honest... Custom-made, yeah.

..I think it did have to be shortened at one point

because there was a couple of times where I wore it

and I almost did trip.

Well, that's the only reason Andrew wasn't selected as a Traitor,

cos he was just bulking out of it.

It would look like one of those things

that Red Riding Hood wears on top of him.

But have you tried the cloaks, though?

I did get to try a cloak, yeah. Did you? Did you?!

Listen, do you...? And tell me if you agree with me.

I felt it was so luxurious. Mm.

And to be fair - and I don't want to sound bad -

but the only time I really, really was fully happy

was when I was wearing that cloak. Really? Yeah.

You didn't look happy when you... Absolute psycho.

There was a certain moment where you were wearing it

and you didn't look very happy. Yeah!

And you also said, "I'm fucking angry at you." So...

Well, I'm sure you do remember this moment,

but we loved this moment.

You were nearly caught out quite early on, Ash,

at the first breakfast. Oh... Oh!

So let's-let's remind ourselves of that moment.

Huh?

She's straight in!

She's going to find the first pin to fall!

I was just kind of joking.

I said, "Are you a Traitor?" while I was getting my melon.

Are you a Traitor? I am not a Traitor.

I couldn't be a Traitor.

Can I say something?

You'd better not be a bloody Traitor. She's straight out with it.

I thought the same about you, actually. Good.

Cheers.

You are not good at hiding on your face

when you're worried or annoyed.

Oh, my God. Melon Gate.

We're going to call this Melon Gate. Melon Gate, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you used the classic denial technique of going,

"I can't hear you." "What?" Yeah!

And then... Aka, "Give me more time, please."

You know what? She caught me so off-guard. Yeah, I know.

It was an amazing thing to do. I was like, "What?!"

You couldn't tell.

You were very relaxed about the whole thing. Very subtle!

And do you think you'd do anything different

if you could play the game again?

Oh, probably, mate.

"Yeah, I really messed up."

Like, first of all, I think I'd need to bloody relax a little bit,

you know what I mean? And I think that was my problem.

And I was also trying to get to know too many people too quickly.

But I think cos your time is limited and it's a bit condensed, so...

And I think that's what made me look a bit suspicious.

But I do honestly also think I needed to relax a little bit

and I think I should have found my group, you know? Mm.

And that's one thing I noticed when...

You don't realise it necessarily when you're there,

but now that I've watched it back, I'm like,

"Oh, actually you can see those little groups."

Maybe spend too much time to get to know everybody. Yeah.

This is the problem. You spread yourself too thin,

so you don't have people to maybe back you up at that point.

Yeah. This is the problem. Yeah.

I think also it's like, when it's this early in the show,

you can say too much, and...

I think...I think both of you probably did this.

And you realise...

I think it was either this episode or maybe the episode before,

when there was a couple of people at the Round Table

who, when they were... their name was thrown in the mix

and they went, "Oh, I think you're-you're a Traitor,"

they would just go, "I'm not, I have nothing to say."

And then everyone goes, "OK, that's a good explanation."

Everyone just moves on. Yeah. Yeah. But you dig yourself a hole

because you panic and then you just go on...

It's exactly what I would do.

I really loved watching you, Ash,

because I was like, "This is exactly how I would play this game.

"I would not be able to show anything different

"than what I'm feeling on my face." Yeah.

You're just... You are who you are and you're a wonderful person

and you're just, like... you're kind of panicking

and you can't not show it.

And it's-it's just like... It's what's lovely about this show -

it's like, really, you know... It's sort of a different play...

People play it in different ways. And I really felt for you.

And you know, I think that's my problem, I've now realised,

after 45 years of my life -

how I feel shows on my face and I just can't hide it. Yeah.

So you know what? It's just best not to bloody lie.

Well, the aim of the show is to chat about your time on the Traitors,

rather than get too in-depth about how you feel

about your entire life up until this point, Ash.

So we love the depth... "So my mother..." Yeah.

These really feel like therapy couches.

But that's all we've got time for.

But stick around if you're on BBC Sounds

because we have got plenty more bonus content

coming up for you to listen to.

We're going to have Ash. We're going to have Brian here.

We're going to have Giovanni and Joel chatting all things Traitors.

For example, I want to know,

if Brian was struggling to sleep in the castle,

did he try counting himself?

And if you reckon you can think like a Traitor

or vote like your fellow Faithful,

then make sure you play along at home

with the BBC's brand-new Traitors: Predictor game, available at...

I'll be back again on Uncloaked, after Episode 5, next time

for more deceit, deception and al dente dining.

Thank you very much to Joel, Giovanni, Ash and Brian

for joining us and thanks very much to you at home.

I'm Ed Gamble. Stay Faithful.