Original subtitles

Hello and welcome to The Celebrity Traitors: Uncloaked episode 2.

This is your official visualised companion podcast with me,

Ed Gamble, and a truckload of spoilers

for the second episode of the new series,

so make sure you've watched it on BBC iPlayer before this.

Coming up - Paloma Faith is here to give us all her reaction

to that funeral and her murder in plain sight.

We have the exclusive, unseen moment

where I reveal to Paloma who the Traitors are.

Plus, from series 3,

Faithful Frankie and Traitor Linda are here.

Welcome, Linda and Frankie. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having us. You're welcome.

Linda, I'm sure you've been asked many times

since you've been on The Traitors,

but could you give us a quick head tilt? OK, I'll start from here.

Do you want me to say "Traitors"? Yes, please.

Traitors!

Instant! I want to know what it looks like.

I know, because you didn't spot it the first time.

I was oblivious. Totally oblivious.

How many times a day are you asked to do that, Linda?

Oh, hundreds, believe me. Hundreds. What's it like for both of you,

watching a new series of The Traitors that you're not in?

I mean, it brings back all those memories,

when they're sitting around the Round Table.

But especially watching it with celebrities playing it.

Is that quite a weird experience as well?

Yeah, that is, actually.

Yeah, because we know... Well, we don't know them.

But, you know, we see them a lot on TV,

so you sort of know them,

whereas the other ones, you don't know anybody who's on it. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's a really different dynamic, I think.

And you have preconceptions of how you think they might be.

Of course. And then, when you start watching, you're like,

"Oh, that's not how I thought they were going to play it."

So has anyone surprised you so far? Has anyone surprised...?

Stephen Fry surprised me

because I thought he was going to be a Traitor.

Right.

And he seems actually really well suited to being a Faithful.

I think you're right. Yeah. And I don't know,

I saw him as being quite treacherous.

In a nice way. Treacherous in a nice way?!

But just because he's so clever,

I thought he could be conniving and all that.

And he's actually, like, really suited to being a Faithful.

Yeah, I think he wants to be a Faithful. Yeah.

And he wants to solve... He wants to solve the problem.

He wants to investigate. Yeah. Well, we will talk more about that.

We'll talk more about the episode. Yeah.

But Paloma is going to be sat right over there

with us in mere minutes.

So we'll get into the whole funeral and the murder in plain sight.

But just briefly, what did we make of the banishment cliff-hanger?

It looks like it's between Niko, Kate and Tameka. Oh, yeah.

I fear it might be Kate.

Yeah. Why do we think it might be Kate?

There just seem seems to be more heat on her.

And I really felt for her because I sort of saw myself

in her position, when I had the heat on,

which didn't happen till a bit later on.

But there's that kind of look on your face,

like, "What?!" Yeah. She seems quite confused.

Like, "What?!" And I was sort of exactly the same.

I think... Cos a lot of the heat coming Kate's way

is about her reactions to things.

I know! Which are completely genuine. And I got it!

It's completely genuine. Being over the top.

Well, I mean, come on! Yeah, there's some pretty Linda reactions

coming out of Kate Garraway. I know. Flabbergasted.

I would have said that. You so would. I think you probably did.

I know. But the difference is, Linda,

you were a Traitor. Oh, yes, I was.

So that would have got you in trouble for a different reason.

When I meet people after the show, people always say to me,

"How could you not tell?"

Because I never thought Linda was a Traitor.

I was like, "Because she talks like that all the time."

Yes. I think with Kate especially,

what she does is, she'll repeat something

that someone else has already said in a really over-the-top way.

I loved it when she said, "I'm just a ham."

Yeah. I felt like that. A bit of a ham. Yeah.

But when everyone came down for breakfast,

after Paloma had been poisoned,

someone went, "Well, maybe there's been a recruitment."

And then Kate stood up and went, "Maybe there's been a recruitment!"

Maybe someone's been recruited.

And you think, if you're looking for suspicious things...

She's like master of ceremonies.

Yeah, she really is.

Just in case anyone didn't hear - there might have been a recruitment!

And now the bride and groom!

Oh, Lord. So who do we think Stephen's going to vote for?

Do you think Kate might be in danger?

I think it could be Niko or Kate.

Well, whoever's banished, we'll hear from them

on the next episode of Uncloaked.

But right now, it's Paloma time.

Her castle journey was short.

Linda, did you just turn to look at the door? I did, yeah.

I thought she was coming in.

I might have copied her, because you did it.

Oh, my God. Will I ever change? No, I will not.

I think you don't normally turn that way either.

I'm surprised we didn't hear your neck go.

Paloma is coming in here, but in a minute.

I've got a small intro to do first.

Her castle journey was short and sweet,

but she was the centre of one of the dastardliest murders

in Traitors history, and even got the rare privilege

of attending her own funeral,

soundtracked by her own voice.

We've prised open the coffin and brushed the dirt off Paloma Faith

for her exclusive Uncloaked interview,

and get ready, because you're about to find out what happened

immediately after Paloma left the game up at the castle,

when she came to see me,

and she discovered

just who the Traitors are for the very first time.

Welcome. Welcome to Uncloaked.

Don't hug me in case I die.

Take a seat.

It's too late for that. It's too late for that.

Welcome to Uncloaked, Paloma. Thank you.

How are you feeling? I feel really sad.

I feel like I didn't even have the opportunity to,

like, show what I'm capable of,

and especially show the millions of outfits

that I had planned to wear on the game.

Well, look, this one's fantastic. Thank you.

This was what I was planning to wear when I won.

So I wore this one because it was a killer look.

Let's talk about that first breakfast when you walk in.

Are you relieved to not have been murdered,

as you thought at the time?

I was so sure that I was going to be murdered

that when I walked in to the breakfast,

I genuinely was so relieved and I really relaxed.

I didn't understand that...

Like, even after Claudia said, "In plain sight,"

I didn't really understand what that meant,

because the series that I'd watched

didn't have that in it, so I thought I was OK.

What, so when everyone's reacting to the...?

And I was like, "What's going on?"

So what did you think had happened, then,

when everyone walked into breakfast and no-one had been murdered?

I was like, "They're so nice.

"And I'd be the same. They didn't know who to kill,

"so maybe they just recruited someone."

There are a lot of theories thrown around

about what actually happened with the murder in plain sight.

Did you have any sense or any idea? Were the Spidey senses tingling?

There's, like, a couple of things that I keep coming back to.

So twice I was talking alone with Lucy,

and I really trusted her.

I really felt like we were kindred spirits.

I agree that you and Lucy have similar energies,

and you seemed to really click when you were there.

Yeah. Especially during the funeral, which turned out to be your funeral,

you seemed to be getting on very well. Yeah.

I was really helpful to her and stuff,

and I'll be really sad if she was one of the Traitors,

because then I just want her to know on the record,

I'll never be friends with her.

So you're in the coffin. Claudia's marching up and down behind,

making things very, very tense. Hmm.

And she slams your coffin lid.

How does that feel in that moment?

I still didn't know that it meant that I was dead.

Because I'm ADHD, I sort of, like, listened to 50% of everything

that she says, because I'm tuning in and out all the time.

Because I'm also... The whole time, I was thinking, "Who is it?

"Who is it? Who is it?" And I thought she was just going

to shut all of our coffins because I hadn't heard that bit

when I shut the thing. I was like, "Oh, I guess it's me, then."

So the lid shut. So there's a moment where you're in the coffin

and you're thinking, "So..."

So I'm now dead and I can't believe it.

Yeah. Do you have any regrets?

Anything that you could have done to avoid murder, perhaps?

I do regret some things.

I regret, like, telling everyone

that I sat near every thought that I was having at all times.

Yeah. It's a bold way to play the Traitors game. Yeah.

This is a big moment,

because obviously you were murdered in plain sight by the Traitors.

Hmm. At the moment, you don't know who those Traitors are.

Yeah. Do you have any suspicions?

I'm looking back, and I'm thinking about the plain sight thing. Mm-hm.

I can remember Tameka being there.

And I can remember Lucy and remember Joe.

I will be devastated if you tell me that Niko's a Traitor,

because I was ready to go to that Round Table and say,

"I do not believe it's Niko," in front of everyone.

Now, if you're about to tell me that,

I'm going to doubt my whole existence

and potentially go into hiding for several years

and reconsider my whole life.

Well, I think we should do it. OK.

I think you should find out. So I'm going to give you this.

I deserve it. There's the names on there.

But these people, just for the record,

if any of them die after the series is being shot,

that will be me that killed them.

Jonathan!

The geek!

What a prick.

So you didn't have any suspicions?

I'm happy to lose him as a friend.

You didn't have any suspicions about Jonathan? No. No suspicions.

But he's obviously really, really, like, studied.

Hmm. He's really good at it. Yeah. I had no suspicions at all.

Right, well, let's hear the next one.

Cat?!

Oh, my God. So these people just killed me

out of malice because I didn't suspect any of them.

Shall we do the last one?

Alan?! Ohh!

These are, like, three of my favourite people that I was sure.

I hope they never call me again.

And I mean that. The brighter way of looking at it

is that they're doing a great job as Traitors.

Yes. Yeah. But bang out of order.

I agree, bang out of order, for sure. Yeah.

I feel really even more betrayed now.

By Alan in particular? I feel betrayed by Jonathan and Alan.

And actually Cat, because she's on the same record label as me,

and she should have some loyalty.

And she's here with us now. Please welcome Paloma!

Oh...

Thank you so much for joining us, Paloma.

I've been going through a moment with my daughter, who's eight.

I played her the song The Bright Side Of Life...

Yeah... the other day, because, like,

sometimes she focuses on the negative.

And I was like...

Now we play this game called the Bright Side Game

and she says something that's terrible.

And then I say what the bright side of that is.

So I'd say the bright side of this

is that there wasn't enough time

for anybody to think that I'm horrible person.

So I think my reputation as being really lovely is intact,

and it could have gone the other way.

There was no chance of it going the other way, Paloma.

But, yes, I agree, your reputation is preserved.

You have threatened to murder them all now. Yeah.

And if any of them die in real life, I'm prime suspect.

Prime suspect! You've just admitted to it on the VT.

Now, obviously, since we spoke then, you've now seen the episode.

You've seen that not only was Alan a Traitor,

but Alan was the one who killed you by touching your face.

How are you feeling about that now?

I still maintain to this day that if the shoe was on the other foot,

I wouldn't have done that.

So I don't think he should have done it to me.

And I'm surprised that he did.

But he is extremely lovable,

and I've spoken to him since,

and I do find forgiveness quite an easy thing, just as a person.

So I love him. See, not only have you preserved your reputation,

you've still got the moral high ground as well.

Exactly. Absolutely. Kill him with kindness.

Linda, in episode 1,

Alan actually said that he was a worse Traitor than you.

I've got my suspicions.

I tried to be like, "Ahh..." I was just laughing.

I'm like, "I'm not a Traitor," but, oh, God, I'm worse than Linda.

I am worse than Linda.

Charming. I know.

Can we rate Alan's efforts in the murder in plain sight

when he killed Paloma? How did he do?

I think it was a mistake.

And I think he will get his comeuppance, desperately,

because why...? I mean,

already Clare has worked out

who would be the least likely person for him to get rid of?

Hmm. So she's already got her... Because you were so close.

So she's already got her eye on him. Yeah.

And I think that will be his downfall.

But I did keep asking him why he was sweating so much.

I remember just being like,

"I didn't think that men got the menopause."

He was just like, "I don't know, I've got a sweating problem."

I was like, "I've never noticed it before

"when we've spent time with each other."

He doesn't look very comfortable.

When he was in the kitchen, he was like, "Ahhh..."

There's definitely some turmoil going on with Alan, I think.

And I think he had a lot put on him for that murder in plain sight.

They all kept saying, "It's you, it's you."

Yeah. Because I think the idea was that Alan is the only one

out of the three of them

that could get away with touching someone's face.

And unfortunately, and, I mean, maybe take this as a compliment,

Paloma... I was the only face he was willing to touch.

But I think it was a difficult murder

because it was a murder of opportunity.

It's not like they sat around and said,

"We're going to kill Paloma,"

because I think if they got to choose...

I think you're being nice.

I think it's true. If the shoe was on the other foot,

I would not have touched Alan's face.

Categorically, he had a choice. It was a choice.

And he just...

Maybe it was the easiest option, but it was the choice he made.

Yes. And I think it was not very nice.

No, that's fair enough. He did murder you.

I think we can say it's not very nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Frankie, to us, when we're watching those murders in plain sight,

they do look impossible to pull off in a sort of subtle way.

Yeah. But when you're in the game,

are you looking out for things that are out of the ordinary,

like, you know, the glass of fizzy rose

or someone touching your face? I think... In our game,

I think there was sort of something like someone's passed me a drink

and they kind of went down that thing

because it's what happened before.

And then everyone's like, "No, they've done that." Yeah.

So you kind of do look out for random things.

I personally wasn't. I was oblivious to kind of what... you know?

Yeah. Because I said in that... when I was watching,

I said, "Oh, Niko hugged me,"

and I just can't stop thinking about

how terrible that was of me to say that.

But at the time, you're just trying to think of all the things

that might have been a bit different.

It doesn't necessarily...

You're just literally, like, spouting. You're grasping at straws,

basically. Yeah. Until I saw the flashback,

don't remember Alan ever touching my face. No.

And then I have had all this time since,

and I still didn't remember until we just watched

the episode now. He touched his own face

way more times before he touched yours.

I was concerned... Was it like lily powder?

Did he have to leave the lily powder on your cheek?

Poisonous pollen on his fingers.

I mean, he was touching the fridge. He was touching his face.

Mass murder. It was like a Dettol advert.

By the time he touched my face,

he probably had rubbed all the pollen off his fingers.

Paloma, what did you think when you saw the funeral laid out

in front of the castle

with Claudia on horseback and everyone's wearing black?

What did you make of that when you first saw it?

Well, it was astonishing. And I did think, "What a send-off!"

I mean, I didn't know at the time it was mine,

but I thought everyone looked really cool.

It was like a sort of high-fashion campaign shoot,

wasn't it? It was amazing. It was very beautiful.

Everyone looked incredible. Like, the outfits were just stunning.

Amazing. And what was funny was,

we were just told to pack a black outfit.

Yeah. So we weren't really told that it would be

like a celebratory outfit or a commiseratory outfit or anything.

But it ended up working really well.

Yeah, well, it looked like a Sopranos funeral.

Yeah. You and Jonathan particularly,

I think very, very glam funeral.

He had the big furry collar. And the sunglasses.

Yeah. Incredible.

Now, the team got three clues for your coffin.

There was the riddle from the choir,

the tie and the wreath with hearts and bandages over.

How did you feel when you finally realised

that it was going to be you?

I thought I'd be gone if it was me.

Yeah, because the other two people in the coffins were Niko and Lucy.

Yeah. But you thought it was definitely going to be you

rather than one of them? Yeah.

Why did you think that? I don't know.

Impostor syndrome? Yeah, I understand that.

Yeah.

Celebrities are celebrities for all different reasons. Yeah.

Now, I went to art school and I've built a career

out of singing about my real, true feelings.

And so, as a personality,

I'm not like a celebrity before I'm an artist. Mm-hm.

There's so many different, amazing skills people have.

Like, you go, "Oh, they're in here for logic.

"They're in here for intellect. They're in here for,"

I don't know, "empathy or whatever."

But, like, I felt that I was in there for entertainment.

But also, I think you put weight on relationships

more than you would necessarily in real life.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so intense,

and you don't have your normal support network.

You try and attach to people. You attach to people,

and if you felt safe with somebody, then you stick with that person,

because in those moments, you feel safe with that person. Yeah, yeah.

So true. Paloma, you told Claudia

that you could be a Traitor or a Faithful.

What qualities do you think you have that would make you a good Traitor?

What I said to her was that

because I don't really know how to be any other way,

I'd just be the same. Yeah. And I think that would mean

that people didn't really suspect me.

I think they're grasping at straws

so much now that they might have eventually gone,

if you were a Traitor, them going, "Her surname's Faith." Yeah.

"They definitely would have made her a Traitor."

Yeah. "It's too obvious to make her a Faithful."

You said you couldn't lie. You were very honest.

So how would you deal with that if you were a Traitor?

Because I found that so difficult.

But I've done quite a bit of acting.

Oh, right, OK. And so to do... But so have I!

I actually have played a serial killer before.

Oh, really? Yeah. In a series. Tap into that.

So the way that I did that was by believing,

um, that it was justified.

Everything I was doing was justified.

Yeah. And so, for that character,

I just would imagine that I was doing the good... God's work

kind of thing. Oh, we missed out on you being a Traitor.

Yeah, exactly. Walking around the castle, mumbling to yourself,

going, "You're doing God's work, Paloma." But she did ask me,

she said, like, "What would you do?"

And I said, "I'd just make it a great series

"and I'd get rid of anyone who wasn't that entertaining."

"You're boring." Yeah. I'd be like, "They're not saying much. Get rid."

Because I'd watched it before and all the boring people

last right to the end. Thanks!

It's a tactic. Yeah.

No, I know it's a tactic, but what I mean is, like, I would just

try and get rid of them, so the tactic was flawed.

I'm glad I wasn't in the same one as you.

Yeah, I wanted to... I wouldn't have made it to the first breakfast!

I would have tried to engineer chaos

and, like, kind of like loads of clashing personalities and stuff.

Just going around interviewing people,

and if they weren't entertaining in the chat,

just being like, "Yeah, we won't see you in the morning."

Did you hear that really lame attempt at a joke? Get rid!

It'd be like a Roman emperor. Just... Yeah.

Linda, is being a Traitor all it's cracked up to be?

I thought I'd be so good at being a Traitor

because I thought I was so good at lying, but actually I'm not.

When you get to know people and you can't...

You know who the Faithfuls are

and trying to point the finger at someone,

and I liked everybody. So it was really,

really difficult to think...

Do you think it's more easy to lie to the people you know really well

than it is to people you quite like from a distance?

Yeah, I think it is. I think it is.

But, no, I mean,

it was really difficult and really stressful.

And then everybody is looking at everybody.

That's the other thing. Yeah. And you know that you're a Traitor

and everything you say is picked out.

It's really hard. Well, I thought

you were a brilliant Traitor. I didn't think anything.

Thank you. I think you're about the only one.

I was the only one, I think.

Well, in terms of entertainment, Linda,

you are one of the most entertaining Traitors ever.

Very much so. So, Paloma would have kept you in the game

right until the end. 100%. We would have been good together. Yeah.

If you were a Traitor, Paloma, who out of the celebrity cast would

you have liked in the Turret with you?

Niko and Ruth.

Yeah, they're good choices, I think.

I think Niko is a really smart, intelligent player of the game,

and I think Ruth's the same, to be fair.

I think she's very, very clever.

So you sadly didn't get to make it to the first Round Table, Paloma.

But you've seen it now,

so do you have any sense of what you might have done,

where you might have pushed the conversation?

At that point...

But the problem is, it's so early on,

but at that point, it's so early that you kind of want to go

for somebody that's already been mentioned,

because if you say a name, you know, that hasn't been,

you look like you're a Traitor, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Or you're just sticking your head above the parapet.

Yeah. And if you're right and on your own,

the Traitors want to kill you. Yeah.

So the only one that I had suspected quite hard was Tom Daly.

Yeah. So I probably would have gone for him if I was in that position.

But if I was able to speak first...

It's just like you're scrambling at the time.

I did have Tom in my head.

I just felt like his outfit at the funeral was very serial killer-y.

It was like American Psycho

with the buttons done all the way down.

And I was like, "Oh, my God, he's a psychopath."

And that is as good a reason as any.

Like, that's as good a reason as most. There's so little fact

to go on at that point! Yeah.

And there would have been people at the Round Table who would have...

I would have been like Louis Walsh. "Looks like a Traitor.

"Sounds like a Traitor!"

I guarantee there would have been people at the Round Table

as well who would go, "Yeah, I thought that as well, actually."

Yeah. "I agree. He was dressed like a psychopath."

"He looked like American Psycho. I agree with Paloma. Full fact!"

For balance, I thought he looked lovely.

We should all get a job in the police force!

Just to take you back to the mission,

the huge Trojan horse mission.

Clare Balding really drew some attention

to herself by pulling the lever at the wrong time.

No. What? Why...? I didn't realise I locked it in.

Sorry.

Clare locks it in and I'm like,

"The Traitors met last night.

"Was part of their thing to sabotage the mission,

"to get people to give up as many shields as possible?"

Clare pulling that lever is exactly what a Traitor would do.

Did you think that was a bit suss at the time?

No, I didn't. No? Because I was quite near her

and I genuinely saw her reaction was honest,

like, "Oh, my God." I thought it wasn't acted.

I think you're a very trusting person, but I think you're also...

You are quite perceptive.

So I think it's a shame you went this early

because I think you could have found some Traitors pretty sharpish.

But I think you were always going to be a threat to them.

They might have got rid of you later anyway, just for being on it.

Everyone in real life hates introducing me

to their new boyfriends or girlfriends

because they're just like,

"Paloma's a witch,

"and I don't want her to say they're not a good person."

Yeah. Because then it really makes me worry.

And I go to bed and not be able to sleep.

Because you'll probably be right. And usually I am.

Yeah. But my mum's the same.

So I think it's, like, passed down generations.

Now, obviously, for the regular series,

Paloma, these guys will attest,

they didn't know anyone going in there.

But you knew a lot of people going in there.

Who did you know best before the show,

and do you think it's an advantage?

Well, it was a disadvantage

because I knew Alan the best, and he killed me,

so it was unexpected.

But I actually think maybe it was an advantage for him.

I don't know how the show progresses,

but I'd imagine

that a lot of people would doubt that he was a Traitor,

because they'd assume he wouldn't do that to me. Mm-hm.

So maybe it was an advantage for him.

Yeah, that might be a bit of a bonus for Alan.

Or, on the other hand... Yeah... maybe not.

OK. Clare's on him. Linda's got it in for Alan.

Mainly because... Mainly because he was like,

"I'm even worse than Linda."

Yes, exactly. He insulted her and me in one episode.

Thank you. Linda, how does it feel

to be a measuring stick for terrible Traitors?

I've got used to it now.

Paloma, you seemed quite close to Lucy in there.

Did you strike up any other new friendships?

Cat, because even though we're on the same record company,

I've not spent time with her.

Yeah. I really like Niko straight away.

I actually told him on the first day

that I wished that I had a son like him.

That's really sweet.

I just found him so adorable and lovable and kind.

Those are the main three. Oh, Celia I know from St Trinian's.

Of course. But I just feel like we'd spent a decade

or a little over a decade not seeing each other,

and it was just so nice to be reunited with her.

And I just find her amazing and so naughty.

She's incredible. Yeah. If you'd stayed in any longer,

is there anyone that you would have wanted to bond

a little bit more with and get to know?

Yeah, I would have liked to have bonded with Ruth.

I think she is the coolest. Yeah.

Nick Mohammed, I think he's an incredible mind.

You have to do these individually.

Oh, my God, Nick was a puzzle ninja.

He just went into this zone.

That, that, that, that, that.

Oh, yeah. There you go. There you go.

That's it. Yes. Let's go.

He just did it. Got the key.

And we were on.

I was also quite astounded by Kate Garraway's sex appeal.

I literally was like, "I've seen you a lot on television,"

but in person she is one hot mamacita.

Never underestimate Garraway in the flesh.

Unreal. She looks amazing. She's gorgeous. Good morning Britain.

Yeah.

Hello!

The chat continues over on BBC Sounds,

where I'll be reflecting with Paloma, Linda and Frankie

on their experiences with fame.

It's all in your bonus episode of Uncloaked,

which you can listen to right now. We've made it easy for you.

All you need to do is scan the QR code on the screen

and then listen before you head to bed,

or maybe on your morning commute.

And if you think you've got what it takes to be

a Traitor next series, or a Faithful, then go to...

to apply.

We're back on Wednesday night,

straight after episode 3 with our first banished player.

And of course, I'll be revealing

the Traitors to them for the very first time.

Big thanks to Frankie, Linda, and of course

Paloma Faith for joining me, and to you for watching.

I'm Ed Gamble. Stay Faithful.

https://ko-fi.com/TheArmory