Original subtitles

- I started getting into buying sex on a regular basis

when I was in my late thirties.

There are local papers that have advertisements in the back

and I decided to go see a professional dominatrix.

- My first lover was a Puerto Rican hooker.

I was a sailor. I didn't know any better.

- So I suppose I've been married for 25 years.

I didn't wanna have an affair, so I found her on the Internet,

and it was, I suppose, a mind-blowing experience.

(distant siren)

(woman): Do we want a society where men can buy sex? Yes!

There's nothing wrong with it.

Sex is a commodity.

People who think sex

is not a commodity are delusional.

I've had sex with over 5,300 different m... clients.

Like... I know what I'm talking about here!

(cheering)

(all): Hey-ho, let's go!

(newscaster): Ontario sex-trade workers

celebrate a significant and rare legal victory.

- I don't believe it.

We never get good news like this.

(applause) (newscaster): This story began

when lawyer Alan Young and three sex workers

challenged Canada's prostitution laws

that make many aspects of sex work illegal.

- And here's why it's really sinister:

we know people have gone missing.

In Vancouver, in Winnipeg, in Calgary...

There's hundreds of them.

(newscaster): Justice Susan Himel

agreed with the plaintiffs and their claim

that the existing laws put sex workers at risk.

- We won't have to work in fear

and under the gun and on the run.

And my colleagues won't show up dead.

It was stunning that... to me, that we won.

It's completely logical.

However, logic doesn't usually enter

into any debates around prostitution.

- There are women in the sex trade

that are happy with their work.

As counterintuitive as that sounds

to the prohibitionists, there are,

and there's many of them.

And all they want from this case,

and all they wanted from me, is to create a legal regime

which doesn't make their job harder.

When I say harder,

I'm not just meaning more difficult economically,

but harder in terms of risks to physical security.

- No government, no religion, no army in history,

has ever been able to stop sex workers.

For two simple reasons:

sex and money.

If you wanna stop sex workers,

you have to stop sex and you have to stop money.

You think you're up for that job?

(woman): For 15 years, I was a hooker.

And a lot of it was my identity. (woman): And women,

who do we have as our role model?

Marilyn Monroe! Betty Boop!

Fuckin'... Jessica Rabbit!

So you have no right to come here

and call down women who choose to do what they want to do!

So fuck yourselves! (man): Yeah, exactly.

I'll pay for all your plane tickets

to go to Bangkok and maybe tell your problem there.

This is a strip club, fuck-- - Our problem

isn't with the girls. - People who work

across the street go and have a beer there.

- Our problem isn't with the girls.

- Yeah? Well, this place... - The oldest profession

is actually farming.

And it's not inevitable. It's not.

Uh, that same argument was made about domestic violence.

I mean...

just because we have things with us all the time,

does that mean we don't try working against it?

As we stated in the press release,

we're all deeply troubled

by the decision handed down by Judge Himel.

We know from our lived truths that we share

that it was not the laws that beat

and raped us, it was men.

It was not the location

that made us unsafe, it was the men

we were in that location with that were unsafe.

We have to interfere

with the unchecked male demand

for paid sex.

My big umbrella goal

is to see Canada adopt

the Nordic model of law, the Swedish model of law.

Sweden criminalized...

the demand for paid sex,

pimping, procuring,

and trafficking.

And they decriminalized the women.

So they looked at it

from a women's-equality standpoint

and as a violence-against-women issue.

- The real question for me is this:

does prostituting women make them equal?

And the answer to that question is no.

Why are there so many women with fetal alcohol syndrome,

women with addictions,

poor, young, aboriginal,

or racialized women in prostitution?

The vast majority of prostituted persons

are women, in fact.

And certainly, you know, we know that the buyers

are almost exclusively men.

So prostitution is gendered in that very kind of obvious,

structured way.

And in fact, in most cities,

you're far more likely to be charged and convicted

as the prostituted woman than you are as the buyer.

So that is something that I think...

The abolitionists' position,

the position of the women's movement,

has always been that this is not about personal morality,

whatever that might be; that this is about power,

which is something quite different.

- Prostitution is a problem

that harms individuals and it harms communities.

This is why I am pleased to indicate to the House

that the government will appeal,

and will seek a stay on that decision.

- They just deny the existence of my people,

and I don't understand that these are real people

with real problems involving the law,

who have made a freewill-choice

to sell their bodies.

(Valerie): Well, I've always liked the sex industry.

When I was a little kid,

there'd be an old Western movie on TV,

and the cowboys' wives...

... they always lived on the outskirts of town

in some rundown shack,

and the cowboy bossed them around,

and they were in these raggy old dresses

with a couple of babies hanging, squalling off of...

Like... I didn't want that.

But the saloon girl...

I was intrigued.

They were in the centre of town, they knew what was going on,

there was music,

sometimes they'd get to own the saloon...

Um... that was more my style.

The first professional dancing costume I ever had made

was a saloon girl.

I was about 16 or so...

Like, people want to go on about how it was abuse.

In their minds, maybe,

but not in mine.

And I think that's the most important thing.

And I do not believe that all sex workers,

including myself, are delusional.

- I would've said I chose it.

I would've said... like, there was a point in my life,

probably in my really early twenties,

um, when I loved it, it was great,

it was fun,

it was a party,

and I really...

I would've said I choose it...

in that.... singular moment.

But you can't...

It's not about a singular moment.

It's about...

It's about all the moments that got you to that place.

I didn't think it was strange, I didn't think it was wrong,

till I remember in, like, Grade 5 or 6 or something,

we had a constable or something come in

and talk about good touching and bad touching.

And I was just floored that this was the bad touching, y'know?

It never occurred to me until then.

You always knew...

it just didn't seem quite right, but you never actually

voiced your opinion in my house.

I mean, I was already sleeping with people

to... get high or drink by the time I was 12.

And then when I went to my first group home,

I just got shown, I guess,

the official ropes.

- I never knew what you did,

but I told everyone you worked in a bar.

- That's what I told you, that's what I told everyone.

- But I didn't know what you did there.

And that's all I knew.

(woman): When did you find out? - Pfft...

I figured it out eventually. It's not that hard.

Your mom works at a bar,

is coming home at two o'clock in the morning every day.

(Trisha): I have always done it on my own financially.

Not a dime in child support.

- My wife, she hasn't been in my bed for 10 years,

so...

And that's not because we're not friends.

We're very close.

We travel together, we talk together,

we work together, we do a lot of things together.

For whatever reason,

her sex drive is essentially nonexistent and mine isn't.

- I really don't wanna get involved

in another relationship.

You know?

Too much work and too much compromise.

- I just know that I went from being terrified

to within minutes going, "This is so right."

You know? Um...

And probably if it had been with just an average person

who had the same level of experience,

it might've been a nervous nightmare.

So time to bring in the professional.

You know, the artiste.

- I know that our opponents talk about,

"What kind of men go see sex workers",

and...

"Look at your husbands.

"Look at your brothers.

"And looks at your sons.

This is who we see."

(Trisha): It has been argued here

that Canada's laws

are what make prostitution unsafe.

For them, there's no talk of the large systemic issues

that force women into prostitution.

No talk of the societal harm, emotional harm,

mental harm, spiritual harm.

It is the johns we must shift our gaze to,

for they have gone unnoticed for far too long.

Lost in the noisy argument

of women's personal choice.

- Do you know who this is? That's Brenda Wolfe's daughter.

(Trisha): It was startling to see just how much Angel

looked like her mom. Really?!

- I really loved hearing you speak.

It really, like... I loved it.

- Oh! (laughter)

It's such an honour and a pleasure to meet you!

I knew Angel's mom in the Downtown Eastside,

when there was...

a lot of us talking about Pickton,

and a lot of us talking about how we had friends

who were going missing and who wouldn't be seen again.

And then we didn't see her again.

... in that apartment,

and your mom used to always come and hang out there.

(Angel): I was, like, still in elementary school

when it first came out, the whole trial.

Everybody knew that, like, "Oh, her mom was like a prostitute,

"who worked on the street and, you know,

shot up heroin", and this and that.

And it was just that stereotype

that I didn't want to be a part of.

So I wouldn't self-identify that I was Native.

I wasn't proud to be my mom's daughter.

I had a huge hatred for her,

'cause I couldn't understand why she chose that life over us.

(Trisha): Robert Pickton...

took advantage of the vulnerable and dispossessed,

and took them out to his farm,

and would be charged with killing 26 of them,

convicted of six.

And there's a lot of suspicion

that he killed many more

than just those 26.

(chanting)

(Angel): I have to forgive her now.

That wasn't who she was.

It makes me sad, in a way,

that it is the 19th annual walk.

The fact that this has been happening for so long,

that these women keep on going missing,

and no one's doing anything... you know,

really needs to stop.

- Yeah, it's the men who yield the knife.

The question in the case is: is the law complicit in this?

And the law is complicit in this because it takes away strategies

that women can use to protect themselves from the predators.

The law doesn't cause anything. The law's an abstraction.

It creates a framework within which you make decisions

and this framework takes away the decisions you need

to avoid the Gary Ridgways, the Joel Rifkins,

the Arthur Shawcrosses, the Robert Picktons,

the Yorkshire Ripper.

I could go on and on. They all preyed on street women.

Maybe some of those women

could've opened a door and avoided it.

- The lessons from Pickton were not that we ought

to have more brothels.

He was running a sort of brothel for himself and his friends.

You know, the lessons of Pickton are that we need

to take male violence against women seriously,

and that prostitution is a part of that.

We need to stop the men from coming in

and scooping up these women, you know,

to take them back and abuse them in exchange for money and drugs.

That's the problem here. It's unacceptable

that we have a population of disposable women

that can be used in this way.

(Trisha): What happened to your back, boo?

- Probably got in a fight. Scrapping...

I've been trying to stay out of them. I really do.

I'm getting old.

(Trisha): Well, Angel is a woman I've known

for 17 years.

For years, we worked together.

(indistinct chatter) Honey,

you need to get that looked at. - Ah, it's nothing.

- Can you make a fist yet? - Well, yeah.

- Oh, yeah, you're well on your way, you're fine.

(Angel): It was as dangerous then

as it is now.

But this is what I know.

My mom had her... her own addictions

and did what she thought she had to do,

and what was taught to her, and so...

when I was... 11,

my mom... put me out on the street.

Not on the street. She would go to the street

and bring people home, right? And, uh, that's how I...

And that was in the hotels here, too, so...

(sighing)

I haven't talked about it in a long time. Ha!

I never, ever once said I wanted to be a prostitute.

We're made.

This used to be way out by where we used to work.

Most of us are aboriginal, down here,

so they're just like me.

(Trisha): It's our old piece of real estate.

(Angel laughing) - We owned it.

- Right? This was ours.

Well, here and down there.

- I worked-- - There's no traffic here,

though anymore, eh? - No. I don't know--

- We used to come here and it was, like...

constant traffic. - Yeah.

- No one drove down these roads except for single men in cars.

(horn honking)

(Angel): I honestly believe

there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing.

- Would you have come to that decision...

if you had grown up free from an abusive household,

and grown up in a loving household?

- Well, that's an entirely other situation.

Now you're saying abolish prostitution,

but also abolish abuse and abolish, you know...

And we know that would definitely be good, you know?

Too many kids get hurt. - I know,

which is why we have to say to men you can't buy women,

because we shouldn't be allowing them to exploit abused children.

- These could be guys...

that are out looking for me now, right?

That would have raped their daughter,

or their neighbour's daughter, or their son or whatever.

But instead of doing that,

they go for a drive and they find one of us.

- I am not willing to allow an abused child

who grew up into an abused woman...

- Mm-hmm. - ... be offered up

as... some sort of... sacrifice

in order to save another child.

- Mm-hmm.

- This is a sex-worker-led plan. We don't want people

to be coerced into this business,

and we don't want, um...

any kind of violence and deception and...

We're trying to bring it out into the sunlight here.

I think the best model currently in the world

is New Zealand.

- The world's oldest profession

is now legal in New Zealand,

but the move to decriminalize prostitution

squeezed in by only one vote.

- The change means charging for sex,

or living off the proceeds,

is legal, but hiring an under-18-year-old won't be.

The law allows sex workers to say no,

a key reason former prostitute Georgina Byer backed the bill.

- It would've been nice to have known that instead

of having to deal out the justice myself afterwards

to that person, I may have been able

to approach the authorities, the police in this case,

and say, "I was raped!"

(woman): Decriminalization means...

we have very limited laws

that discriminate against sex workers.

We have a model where sex workers

have a lot of options: they can work for themselves,

they can work in managed brothels,

or they can work on the street.

So, you know, they're free,

like any other worker, in that way.

There are some people who want to get out,

but there are others who say, "Look, I'm really happy.

I'm comfortable doing this." (phone ringing)

- Afternoon. Paradise. Phiona speaking.

What sort of age group, darling, are you looking for?

Excellent. Wonderful.

Are you looking for blonde or brunette?

What sort of size are you looking for, honey?

It's $160 for half an hour. At the moment,

we have a Christmas special of $180 for the hour.

Alright, thank you very much. Bye.

No. Yeah.

He sounded rough. Wants someone young,

under the age of... as young as he can get them.

Which always raises alarm bells for me.

And the other one that raises alarm bells,

"New to the industry." The girl new to the industry,

want to be her first client, because then

she doesn't know the ropes. The clients here know

that I teach the girls the rules

before they even go in the room. So there's no... misbehaving.

I'm a mom to a lot of the girls.

- Yeah, Jazz and I say that it's the Phiona Baskett home

for wayward girls. (laughter)

'Cause we all kinda end up here,

in the same sort of situation. I wouldn't work anywhere else,

'cause everywhere else it's just a business.

You're just stock; that's all you are.

They're shifting units. - You're just another number.

- They don't care about you as a person. - I'm very fair.

But it comes down to it, if I say something,

I expect it to be done. I don't expect to be backlipped.

I will not cast a blind eye for drugs.

You do drugs in my establishment,

yeah, that's when you really see the wrath.

It is a business and I am the boss.

I've gotta make sure the personality and the style

fits in with what we do, as well.

With you, it was easy.

You were exactly what I was looking for.

I said to Carmen two days before, "I need a blonde,

I need someone under 20, a size 6 to 8."

It was like the recruitment fairy came along.

So if you guys find anyone that is a brunette, under 20,

a size 6 to 8, that's what I need next.

And the marketing is important, so we've got a marketing plan.

So we know where we're gonna put our money towards marketing.

And who we're gonna market and how we're going to market.

Each girl's a little different. I mean...

Carmen being a...

lovely, exotic, dark girl, is a little bit different,

but she does a great submissive with mistress.

A porn-star experience is she uses all the toys in the room

that you've seen,

and it's a really erotic experience.

Now a girlfriend experience

is a hand job, a blow job,

and straight sex. That's how we sell it.

It depends on what the client is wanting,

and that way we match up to the girl.

- Because our client base is probably guys

from about 30, 45-ish is, like,

the main group of people, and most of them say

that if it was illegal they wouldn't do it.

They're mostly corporate guys-- - Businessmen.

- Yeah, self-employed, um... clean-cut, nice people,

um, who are just sort of sneaking out for lunch

'cause they've had a boring day.

- I have a great marriage. My wife, I love dearly.

She loves me. However, she...

is very vanilla

in the way she likes to make love.

And...

I guess, as a guy,

I sometimes want something a bit different, or a bit extra.

- I don't rationalize it by saying,

"Oh, I'm helping her get through university",

or, "I'm helping a solo mom support three kids",

or whatever.

I don't need to rationalize it like that.

(laughing) I've gone way past that stage.

To me, it's a business transaction.

- It's usually fairly... very, very active,

less conversation,

um, very messy,

um, multiple positions,

all the services,

anal, things like that.

- Um, well, with this job,

the most important things are impeccable grooming

and a really strong stomach.

I was into some pretty kinky stuff

before I started working, so...

bit of a non-issue.

In terms of people in this industry,

like, I'm not that young. Like, hookers age in dog years.

But, I mean, I'm, you know, well-educated,

I've got my degrees, got lots of work experience.

I could do lots of other things, if I wanted to. But I felt more

used and exploited working a minimum-wage job,

where I get 10-minute lunch breaks,

um, than I do doing this and doing what I want,

and having the financial stability to sort of, you know,

own a house in less than two years, if I want.

So for me, this is the best option.

- I was starting a bachelor of nursing.

Did the first year of that.

And I'll probably go back

and do the second year next year.

Thank you, Mum.

I've been sort of portrayed as the girl-next-door kind...

because I'm the young one and I'm the new one.

And that's...

the sort of story that I...

act up to a little bit, but...

It's pretty much just...

whatever the client wants, really.

I'm now Samantha. (laughing)

And I'm going to see a man that is... quite odd.

(laughing)

- Good girl.

I'm proud of you.

Um, we run a VIP membership program.

Every time they get a booking,

they give me a number,

and they actually get the 11th booking free of charge.

It's part of the VIP program.

It's just like, you know, buy 10 coffees, get one free.

This is his 11th free.

- What it makes me understand

is that those women aren't feeling that they have

other sufficient economic options.

And that's where I need...

the society,

the culture, to move to.

Isn't it interesting that nobody introduces things

like cost-benefit analyses into these debates?

These are hugely economic debates,

both at the micro and macro level,

because we have things like,

from the moment student loans were introduced,

women students have determined that one of the fastest ways

to pay off their loans is as a sex worker,

and they're quite right. I mean,

the students' associations of New Zealand

are able to demonstrate

that it takes New Zealand women graduates

six to seven years longer than men with the same degree

to pay off their loans,

and these women are trying to short-circuit it.

- Hands and knees.

Front leg back. Back.

(sensual music playing)

Think sex, think naughty.

Yeah, I'm Steve Crow.

I've been in the adult industry since '93.

- A little bit close, a little bit straight,

and then just... slight bend and then push your ass out.

- Birds out, butts out. Birds and bums.

I own New Zealand's largest adult magazine,

and the largest distribution company

of pornographic DVDs and toys. Good. Think that's enough,

for the two of you.

A few months ago, we bought an escort directory.

- Okay, so you wanna change Nancy's ad?

Just with "Asian Lady" on it and not with her name.

- The traffic is phenomenal.

I mean, for a site in New Zealand

to get 35,000 unique visitors a week...

is huge.

And, um, I'll be just basically

overseeing the sales process with the girls.

Rachel will be managing the club side of it,

as in dealing with the clubs.

And this is my partner and fiancée, Rachel Whitwell.

- Thank you. - You're welcome, love.

I know you can say your own name.

I'll give you permission. - Oh, really?

- Yeah. - Hi, I'm Rachel.

The only sort of dodgy thing

that I've found, from doing that job,

is the people that possibly might not be legal

here in New Zealand. - Yeah.

- I photographed one Asian girl

and she had, like, so many bruises,

and I just thought, Mm, that's... I don't like that.

And because they don't speak English,

and that person's interpreting for them,

you think, "Oh... is this a choice thing?"

(Steve): Obviously, the primary reason to get into it is money.

It's a business. We're here to make money.

- Steve?

What's the busiest parlour that you know

that a girl could go and work for tonight?

- Depends how good-looking she is. Um...

- How good-looking are you, do you think?

Y'know, on a scale of 1 to 10.

(Steve): More and more girls are turning to the sex industry

to earn a living, because, quite frankly,

they're struggling to survive.

It used to be 10 years ago, it was quite hard,

in a small country like New Zealand,

to get girls to do explicit photo shoots.

Now we turn 'em down.

We're getting them every day, every week.

Girls who wanna do nude photo shoots for us.

Girls that never would've in the past.

If you go to the White House or any of the clubs,

they'll say they're getting a higher calibre of girl

coming in to dance.

(man): I built the White House

in, uh, 2000.

We've got Bill on the front door when you walk in.

The reason for Bill is,

I think he was always a good guy and a little bit

because he's a naughty guy. And we're all naughty guys,

and some of us get away with it, but poor Bill got caught.

Who else is up there?

I've got two businesses.

One is a striptease club, the other is a massage parlour.

(whistling and applause) Generally, you might come

from the White House upstairs, you walk downstairs,

look at it up there, have it down there:

main course... dessert.

I don't want to call my place a brothel.

Uh, I can call it Monica's.

Um, to other people, it might not be a perfect name,

but it suits my... um...

... my White House, basically.

But there was no way our government

put any thought into this legalization.

You've got millions of dollars getting spent right now

trying to adjust things that are going wrong.

There's still girls getting murdered,

there's more prostitution on the street than ever.

Most of our girls that have left since the legalization

go and open up little places all over the place.

You've got hundreds of people going everywhere else but here,

and this is where the money's being spent.

(sensual music)

- In some ways,

it's the easiest money you can make, but in other ways,

it's the hardest money you'll make.

Because the managers will say, "Oh, it's just great.

It's fine and lovely here. You'll make $5,000 a night!"

That's bullshit.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to get your head around

sleeping with 10 guys in one night,

and not knowing them, and...

it can mess with your head a wee bit.

Yeah, I couldn't imagine working on the street.

- I don't wanna work in a brothel,

I don't wanna get naked in the bedroom

and have guys molest me. I wanna keep my clothes on.

I want in and out. I want... I'm in control.

You know? So out here, I can handle that.

But if I'm in a brothel, oh, what am I gonna do?

Lie in a bed and let...? No, thank you.

Then I don't want some pimp ruining my life.

I've been there, done that.

Out here, I'm in control, you know?

(siren wailing)

- I've been a Maori Warden for about 14 years.

Maori Wardens have certain authorities,

within the community,

to prevent drunkenness and disorderly behaviour.

I supported the rights of the street workers

to do what they do, if they so choose.

Because they've got

no other way of surviving adequately.

Just about all of them prostituting on the streets

are Maori or Pacific Islander.

They wouldn't be able to get by in a brothel.

The women know it's dangerous.

They know that they could get beaten up or worse.

So if they didn't have to do it,

why the heck do you think they do it?

I've seen them here, time after time,

going round and round the streets,

looking at all the girls,

and they consistently go for the younger, fresher ones.

You know, you can't have prostitutes

if you haven't got clients.

That's the reality.

So maybe they need to look at that. But if that's the case,

where are these girls gonna get money to survive?

Thank God I'm not a politician.

- So what was happening here

is the prostitutes would come up...

... in this beautiful old homestead...

... and they would conduct their business...

... right there.

And so when you came out

the next day to collect your paper,

you had condoms littered.

You know, you're small,

you're exposed, you're open,

and so the prostitutes were coming here.

I supported it at the beginning because I thought

this was going to make prostitutes safer.

And we can actually create

these small, owner-operated businesses,

that if you don't want to go into a brothel,

you can in fact have a prostitute

working in their home, and that would be alright.

And so...

we were thinking pretty much we would get them indoors,

we would get them out, off the street.

(distant siren)

If that's the best we can do for our young people,

offer them a life on the streets doing this,

because it's their choice,

what kind of society are we?

Is this what you aim for?

(Marilyn Waring): New Zealand's given us in the short term,

what's the most logistical and strategic way

to move on decriminalization, to move on health risks,

to move on some human rights,

to move around actually taxing the underground economy.

It's short term, but I want to hope that...

we will be able to keep building

and making and framing societies

where no man or woman feels they have to do this,

where no children are sold into this.

(theme music)

- When an Ontario court struck down three key laws

on prostitution, it set off a discussion

that rocketed from one end of the country to the other.

Here's what was struck down:

the provisions against communication

for the purpose of prostitution,

living off the avails of prostitution,

and keeping a common bawdyhouse.

Now, Ottawa is appealing the decision,

but if the decision stands,

prostitution, pimping and brothels

could become completely legal in Ontario.

We wanna know what you think. Call us.

(man): No, prostitution should not be legalized.

If you really want to help prostitutes,

the best way is to provide them

with detoxification opportunities.

(man): The judge is a hero.

(woman): This whole thing is ludicrous.

(woman): It gives men the go-ahead to purchase women.

Yes, prostitution has always been with us,

and always will be with us, but I'm against it,

because it leads to harms to the social fabric.

(woman): Working indoors is the safest-possible opportunity,

it gives sex workers the ability to control the conditions

of their work, to increase safety.

(Trisha): That was a long two hours.

Holy crap. My gosh. But it's good, right?

'Cause you... figure out what we need to highlight,

the truth that needs to come out and what people get, right?

It's always good to have a little dose of both sides.

- I did not realize the damage

that had been done to me as much as it was until I left.

There's people who come in and want fetishes,

they want you to act like their daughters,

they want spankings,

they want the most disgusting stuff,

but now it's justifiable,

because now it's legal. "I'm not doing anything wrong.

It's okay to do this." - 'Cause we know

what we lived through, we know the repercussions,

today what we went through, and, you know,

that's what we need to bring to the table.

We need to bring our experiences.

- Let's see what we can do. I'm not gonna spend

a lot of time on it. - It's in the reports.

- Okay, let's see what we got here.

I need to recapture control. It's very important for me,

maybe more psychologically than, you know, strategically.

I'm gonna start with occupation at risk.

See, my point is I'm gonna show what's not in dispute.

And I'm gonna move very quickly, so I don't wanna be

melodramatic. But this has to be looked at,

because you have to understand the gravity of the harm.

It's not just about getting scratched in a parking lot.

And that everything the Crown is doing is smoke and mirrors,

because ultimately when you look at the evidence,

it's solid, and what they're saying

was disregarded as bullshit. That's it!

There's nothing. - It was a fast day.

- Nothing!

Maybe I won't work tonight. (laughter)

Here's the secret, though, I'll tell you.

People don't come to me to do the case. I go to them.

I come up with the issue, I come up with the argument,

and then I find the right people for the case.

And so, that's what happened here.

Initially, it was Terri-Jean.

- Prime Minister Harper,

you've been a very, very, bad, bad boy!

And I'm not afraid of you, but you're afraid of me.

Because he's supposed to take care of all of his citizens,

great and small.

And for him to feel that he has no need to protect these women,

he's acting like a deadbeat dad.

(Young): She's a very quirky, nice person,

and her life story demonstrated my case.

And then, I remember reading about Val.

- How are you, Ron? - Because Val was an advocate.

- We're doing well! - We are!

- We are doing really well in there.

- I thought she was a very good spokesperson on this issue.

Like, she really knew what to say,

the right things to say, and not histrionic.

And she so much wanted to be part of it.

- They're giving him a hard time.

They've read our materials and they're giving--

- I know they're gonna give Alan a hard time, too.

- The problem was,

the court would say I don't have standing to challenge the law,

because the two women, Scott and Bedford,

were currently not working. So a court could take the view,

"I'm only gonna make a decision for someone

that it impacts immediately." I didn't agree with that,

by the way, but that was fine. So I said, "Val...

find me someone currently working."

And that's how Amy came aboard.

They're important people for the case,

but it was pretty much... whoever was available

to be able to stand up for themselves.

- I find the Crown's arguments convoluted

and not making logical sense.

Because if we change things,

it "might" make things worse?

He says there's no proof; he is wrong.

We have New Zealand,

that decriminalized in 2003.

So come on, don't tell me there's no proof.

There's lots of it. (reporter): It's really neat

getting to talk to you guys. You're so well-spoken.

- Thank you. - Some wonderful clips.

- Great. I like to throw out a few sound bites

when I get the chance. - Yeah.

- I think they got some good clips of my coffee mug.

- Today's the day that the interveners present our case.

They're all the national heads of women's organizations

that have come together to take a stand

and get the true picture of prostitution

read into the courts, and the version of law

that we all support. - The Canadian Association

of Elizabeth Fry societies, Native Women's Association,

Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres,

the Francophone Women's Centres, and CLES in Montreal.

And, you know, their mission is really to deal

with the aftermath of prostitution,

and what men to do women in prostitution.

And as they try to pick up the pieces and advocate for change,

we're here to say that it's simply not acceptable

that the male demand is completely decriminalized.

Once you decriminalize that demand,

then it validates the need to produce a supply.

- It's the most difficult part of this whole issue,

is to get the focus shifted off the women

and this kind of dissection of their motives

and whether they're enjoying it and all of those kinds of issues

to actually focus on the men who are profiting

and who are buying.

- You're gonna reduce demand?

This is an instinctive drive. I'm sorry, you can't do that.

We can't rewrite human nature.

People have an instinctive drive to sex.

If you don't have a safe, healthy outlet

within your interpersonal relationship, many people

are gonna seek it out in the commercial market.

If she feels you can eradicate that,

let's make her Prime Minister.

- We are the product of 100,000 years of evolution,

and, uh, we are hard-wired

to, uh, think a certain way.

And no amount of, uh...

puritanical laws and... and shaming

is gonna change that.

- Uh... bareback blowjobs,

cum in mouth,

French kissing,

um... let see...

I do like a lot of caressing,

maybe some erotic massage,

you know, things like that.

- They should be really, really, really, really thanking

these girls that are out there making a living doing this

for keeping their husbands from leaving home

and destroying the family and not supporting the kids

and all that other stuff.

It's worth a couple 100 bucks once every couple of weeks

for him to go and get his jollies somewhere else.

Especially if she doesn't wanna sleep with him anymore.

(soft music)

- This is the Pickton legacy, is what people are saying is.

This case needs to go ahead because of the horrific thing

that happened in Vancouver. - So I worked

with Pickton's victims. I worked beside them.

My friends were the ones that were found on his farm.

I covered his trial as a reporter for a year

and I can honestly say that what we need to do

in the legacy of Pickton's victims

is criminalize the male demand.

If there was no male demand,

my friends would not have been on the streets,

I would not have been on the streets.

We need to set laws that create...

a positive environment for Canada to work towards,

that creates a new Canada that we can work towards,

and one that errs on the side of equality...

- Pardon me? (indistinct chatter)

Yeah, the stay is extended until ordered otherwise,

which really means until the judgement comes down.

We didn't come here today to commercialize prostitution.

That's what the government says. We've come here

to open up really rudimentary safety measures.

Hire a bodyguard.

That's not creating a huge corporate structure

for prostitution. Hire a bodyguard.

Work in your home, behind closed doors,

in a safe and secure environment for yourself.

(reporter): But it's more than the government

making that argument, it's ex-workers.

What do you say about their fears

that this is gonna increase recruitment?

- I say to these people,

"I'm sorry for what happened to you,

"but don't extrapolate from your experience into public policy.

There's a huge gap between the two things."

- Full name and spelling, sir. - Alan Young.

A-l-a-n Y-o-u-n-g.

Okay, everybody good? Okay. Cool.

(indistinct chatter)

(Trisha): If we pass this Swedish model of law,

tomorrow, the Canadian version,

it's not gonna eliminate prostitution in a heartbeat.

It's not like every man is all of a sudden

gonna zip up his pants and say, "no more",

and every prostitute is gonna say, "Getting a different job."

But it's about creating legacy.

And this is for my daughter, this is for my grandchildren.

Let's talk to the police. Let's see how they enforce,

if it's helped what they do,

and let's talk to men.

- One of the most frequently asked questions

is that you push prostitution underground

with this type of legislation. But even before the law,

most prostitution activities took place indoors.

If the buyers can find women in prostitution and buy them,

then the police should be also able to do that.

You can't say that the buyers are smarter than the police.

If the police wants to find out that prostitution takes place,

they can.

- We are two teams working undercover,

with surveillance, 24/7.

We use our intelligence

to see what groups are active in Stockholm.

And then we start to...

follow them,

follow the girls on out-calls.

Observe.

Follow the customers. Identify the customers.

Without them knowing it, of course.

And use wiretaps...

... cameras.

And through documentation, we build a case.

- You must know

that there was 30 years of research,

and the feministic movement

lobbying for criminalizing the buying of sexual services.

And also why should we criminalize

only the buyer...? The main, actually, principle

is that you want women to leave prostitution,

therefore you should not put extra burden on them,

also criminalizing them.

Very often,

the woman in prostitution is socially marginalized

and maybe ethnically, too, economically.

Why the buyer?

We have a lot of research regarding the buyers.

And very often middle-aged men,

married, having families, kids,

a steady job, a steady income,

and then you can easily see who is in power here.

With this law,

we reduce acts of violence against women,

and we also can save women's lives.

Of course, it scares them away.

And there have been a lot of surveys also that shows

if you ask sex buyers what would make them stop,

the first thing is legislation.

And the other thing

is shame games, if their names are to be put up,

or they could be identified as buyers.

- I became interested in buyers in the late '70s,

here in the city, where I worked in the streets

as a social worker among prostitutes.

And some men actually phoned us and were concerned

that we stole their women, took them away from them,

and then I became, obviously, interested in,

you know, what is the need?

In Germany, we're talking about 45 to 50%;

Thailand, we're talking about 75%.

So if there was sort of a...

sort of a component of... sex drive,

if it was like sort of, biologically,

part of the biological constitution,

those figures wouldn't vary so much.

The way that sexuality expresses itself

is more of a social and cultural construction than anything else.

Our children, if they grow up in a context

where it's part of the rite de passage

to become a man,

to go with your uncle to a brothel, you know,

the message is that this is part of your life,

this is necessary for you to become a man.

As opposed to a society where people say,

"This is nothing we do here.

"To buy sex is not allowed in this society.

We do it in another way."

- Of course,

it takes other shapes and forms.

You will see that there are other means of prostitution,

but I still think it's a good thing.

I mean, we're sending a clear signal: it's not okay.

- They have no right to buy.

No one has the right to buy another person,

I think.

- People get abused and hurt...

through that, so that's...

I... We just disagree with it.

(laughter) I dunno.

(barking) Sorry.

(soft music)

- Women and men

should have equal power

to shape the society and their own lives.

They should earn the same salaries for performing work,

equal work or work of equal value.

Men and women should share the responsibility

for the home and for the children.

You know, the European... Commission

said that every day,

millions of women go to work

and will be victims of sexual harassment.

If men feel that they can sexually harass

their colleagues at work, well, the next step is to use

more or less some violence to have sex with a woman,

and the next step

is to buy a prostitute's body, and then

have trafficking in the end of this game.

And there is, of course, a connection.

That is one reason why we have criminalized... buying.

- Millions of women, and some less,

but some men also, are doing this kind of work,

with no rights at all. Like...

- In Sweden, we try to support women who are prostitutes.

We are giving them medical support, social support, etc.

Of course, they are entitled to all the support they can get.

But that is not the same thing

as saying it's okay to buy bodies.

- It's the women who have had to take the blame

for prostitution. Now we tried to turn the wheels.

Then, of course, some people look upon this

as a way of stigmatizing the buyer.

Yes, in a way, of course,

because we are pointing at the buyers

and saying that without the buyers,

there would be no prostitution,

so you have to take your responsibility now.

It's historically just that you do it right now.

- Without demand, the supply isn't gonna be there.

Without supply, the demand can do whatever it wants.

But if there's nobody willing to do it,

well, what are you gonna do?

- I think the Swedes are right. There is a whole level

of inequality that's going on there.

Well, okay, if you believe that -

and I can see no reason not to believe it,

it's a totally legitimate argument -

but to me, that's like saying I don't believe in abortion,

but I refuse to adopt the kids.

What kind of crap is that?

- I mean, if we're going to support them,

like they do in Sweden, I'm gonna end up paying anyway,

because they're gonna jack the taxes up.

So I'm gonna get screwed by the... by the government,

and I'm not gonna get screwed by the girl!

I'd much rather get screwed by the girl.

(Borgstrom): People were laughing at Sweden,

saying that men are just going over to Copenhagen from here,

just driving across the bridge.

You can't, you know...

you can't control that from the Swedish parliament

or from the Swedish police office in Malmö.

That's part of the complexity of the phenomenon.

Because this is a global phenomenon.

What we can do here is to go on with this debate and discussion

and challenge the whole... phenomenon

in different ways and discuss it and, you know, open some minds.

I think that's very important.

- My latest film is called Like A Pasha.

It was kind of like a...

result of trying to deconstruct manhood,

in some ways.

So four years ago,

there was the soccer world championships in Germany

and there was a discussion on whether or not

Swedish football fans were gonna go buying sex.

So I followed a group of supporters

down in Germany

and followed them to this brothel,

Pasha,

which is the biggest brothel in Europe.

They said that it was around, like, 700 or 800 men

coming there every day, more on the weekends.

(woman moaning)

It was like a parody of, like,

global... oppression, or, like, global inequality.

It's, like, here's the African women,

here's the Eastern women, here's the Asian women.

And you could look at their prices

to see where they are in the global-status chain,

you know? Like, the young German women

are, of course, the most expensive ones,

and the older African women are the ones that are cheapest.

(man): How was it? - Good, quite good.

(laughter)

What's up to you? Don't you like?

(Tidholm): The film, of course, was put in the context

of this debate and the discussion

in Sweden and in Europe. But I always wanted

to bring it down to the level where it was about the men

who came there and why they wanted to buy sex.

(Borgstrom): Men fantasize about having sex with prostitutes,

and they sometimes say,

"I don't get any sex at home, you know, and particularly,

"I don't get the sex that I would like to have.

"All these other guys get all that kind of sex

and I seem to be the only one that don't get it."

And of course here you always have a connection

between pornography and prostitution,

because the fantasies around the kind of sex other guys have

are images that are portraying pornography.

So... they would feel that they are entitled.

This is a... They are entitled to this.

- You don't have a girlfriend,

or your girlfriend is not here and you feel

a very sexual strong feeling, you want to have some sex.

Just without thinking love or not love,

go here, find this girl I like, spend money,

make your sex, go out and finish.

You think too deep... about these things.

You think too deep, you know?

- Being a man is being tough and being hard

and being, uh, ready to treat other people bad.

You know? And to do this,

you need to shut off a lot of emotions.

(baby gurgling) Because you need to disable

those emotions that make you stop.

I mean, if you look at armies, the prison system,

police systems, globally, it's almost... 100% men.

You know? And I think it's connected,

that you need to shut off those emotions

that would make you stop from hurting other people.

And, uh, what you sacrifice...

is closeness...

to other people.

(soft music)

(Borgstrom): The key law to understand

the gender-equality debate

has nothing to do with prostitution.

That's the parental-leave reform.

That's the most important law that we have in this country

when it comes to issues of gender equality.

The issue of prostitution is a sort of...

it's a hang-around to the major, interesting, most definite,

groundbreaking, cutting-edge law:

the parental-leave reform.

(child laughing)

(Tidholm): How could it not be good for men

to be with their kids at home?

Still, it's women who have been driving the development, too.

Right? And, um...

I'm... I've been doing this so much now,

showing my film and talking about it,

and, to me, it feels like people

really, really like to talk about this.

The sad part is that it's usually most women

who want to understand why men are so obsessed with sex.

- I feel very emotional.

And it can be really, really hard

to speak with someone that haven't seen the movie.

But I don't feel like having sex tonight.

At all. (chuckling)

- I think what we should work at...

is an even greater openness toward sexuality in our society

and open up the possibility of talking about sex

in a more relaxed... manner than... than we do.

(soft music)

This is not the gender-equality paradise, in Sweden.

And backlashes we do have.

But if we have the ambition

to open up for more mutuality,

more trust,

more... experiments

and fantastic meetings between men and women,

that's the first step.

Prostitution is not the answer.

It's the cul-de-sac,

it's a dead-end street.

(Trisha): I've truly been humbled

by the men I've met

and how they even envision,

in some ways,

bigger for women then I could even envision.

(tearfully): I don't wanna just punish anymore.

Men can be men

in a way that I had never dreamed possible.

And I mean that in a totally different way now,

to say I want better for men. I...

I think, in some ways, I'm gonna to get flack for this,

but men are just as robbed of their masculinity

as women are of...

our equality,

in a lot of ways in North America.

And their being robbed of their masculinity

robs us of our equality

and you can't...

I don't... I don't think you can separate them.

- I know it's kind of... shitty behaviour,

but I don't think I'm gonna stop.

- I'm widowed,

I'm retired,

and I'm 60,

so I don't have to give a rat's ass

what people think. Y'know? (laughing)

- The only way you're gonna change it

is to castrate them at birth.

That might change it.

Other than that, you don't have much of chance.

- I'm feeling sick to my stomach.

(laughing) I'm really, really hoping

that this turns out the way that a lot of us are hoping.

(Teresa): Well, we look forward

to hearing the news when you come out.

- Yes, I'm gonna go in and see what happens.

Okay. Thank you.

(Young): Here we go. She's right here.

She is right on time. (sighing)

- You're shaking. I've never seen you like this.

- I'm not shaking, I'm not shaking, I'm fine.

I can't get to what I want to read!

(Trisha): I can't deal with the stress.

And we have two minutes to go.

I'm gonna throw up.

(Young): I wish it was hard copy.

I'd tell you already what it was.

Oh, fuck! Okay, okay, okay. Okay.

- I wanna-- - Okay, 2-10, 2-12 are gone!

(woman gasping) Okay.

(woman): 2-10-- - This is, like, ah...

- Are you alright? (laughter)

- So 2-10's bawdyhouse, 2-12's living on the avails.

They're not striking out communicating.

(other woman gasping) - But the 2-10 and 2-12 are out?

Isn't that wonderful? (Young): Wow!

- He's blown away. Look at him go.

- Okay. So... I guess we won, more or less.

- We won? We won?! - More or less.

I never wanted to challenge communication in the first place

so... I never thought I would be able to knock it out.

- He's the mastermind, that's why.

- Yeah, that's true. - Yay!!!

Whoo-hoo! (indistinct chatter)

You did it, Alan! - Wait a sec!

- Oh, my God.

Court rules laws...

against pimping and brothels unconstitutional;

but upholds law against communicating to sell sex.

Why would they... do that?

- You can run a bawdyhouse now and not get charged.

- Yeah.

- The only one that stayed was--

- The communicating for the business of prostitution.

- It was the communicating law that was the law

that was really being enforced across Canada

and that was being alleged to have increased the danger

to women in prostitution.

And what we end up with, uh... is those women

continuing to be criminalized, and the applicants

apparently prepared to live with that result.

- I didn't want to attack communication on the street,

because I don't think people want sex workers on the street.

But there are problems with the communication law,

and I'm supposed to represent the interests of sex workers,

so I felt I had no choice

but to add the third offense to the mix.

But when the dust settles,

if everything's upheld but bawdyhouse?

Then I feel...

this has been a successful result.

- I'm waiting for you to tell me what I should say to the press.

- Okay, do you have anything planned?

- Flick my riding crop and say a few zingers.

I'm really happy about today or whatever.

- So, okay... So you're happy. Why are you happy?

You're happy because... What do you want to say?

The court did the right thing? - Uh-huh.

- Maybe say this, that you would've been...

much better off and much safer

if this decision had happened 25 years ago

when you were in the trade, or something.

Does that make sense? - Yeah.

- Okay. - Yes.

- Bedford can bring her riding crop,

but this is what is used to discipline prostitutes

who don't listen to their pimps.

It is heated up, it called a pimp stick,

and this is what we're trying to protect our community from.

(Young): We have changed the face

of Canada's prostitution laws.

And although there will be detractors

who don't understand what's happened,

this is actually a good thing for Canada,

and will take some time for the naysayers to realize

that the court has done the right thing.

Not everybody will benefit from this decision.

There are people who work in the sex trade

that are survival sex workers that don't have the wherewithal

and the ability to take advantage of it,

but the court's saying it doesn't matter,

because if we save one life, we've saved a million lives.

We have not solved the problem of what goes on in the street,

which is a very complicated sociopolitical problem...

- I think Alan Young

has just been very clear that this is for the upper...

upper echelon, right?

So...

everyone gets what they want,

and...

everyone else is just collateral damage.

Except the collateral damage is a lot bigger...

... than those who will see the inside of brothels or...

I mean, there's so many rules about working in a brothel.

Um, none of my friends will make it inside.

Aboriginal women won't make it inside.

Women who have blonde hair and blue eyes and big boobs

will make it inside.

Or, you know, Asian women or...

There's a very particular type that works indoors.

But there's far, far more

that will never make it inside the front door.

(man): Terri-Jean, are you gonna open up

a... bawdyhouse?

- If anybody wants to underwrite a business,

I'll... (laughter)

... be more than happy to accept your offer.

(woman): Let's talk about that later, shall we?

- If I open up a bawdyhouse, I have registered the name,

it is Beaver Meadows Social Club, to showcase

the fact that we are Canadian and that we are friendly.

(woman): Let's have a round of applause for--

(applause and cheering) - Yes!

- I was 12.

- Okay, well, I was 15 and when my customers abused me,

they weren't pedophiles, they were just johns

who didn't give a shit. - They were abusers.

They were not johns. - Most of them are.

If a man has to go and live off a woman's body...

I mean come on, we're selling people

like we're selling burgers! - We are not selling people.

We are selling services. - Sex. Sex!

- I've worked with underage girls in bawdyhouses...

(reporter): But anti-prostitution groups

crashed the victory news conference,

including a woman whose mother was murdered by Robert Pickton,

a serial killer who preyed on Vancouver prostitutes.

- For now! For now! - Judges made their decision.

That's the way it's gonna be! - For now!

But I will be working with MP Joyce Smith

and make sure this law gets changed!

'Cause my mom didn't die for you to create this hecticness!

(man): I'm pleased to inform this House

that the government of Canada will seek leave

to appeal this decision to the Supreme Court of Canada.

(applause)

- You know, it's been such a long battle.

I feel as if now I just wanna go home.

- We need to step up our game

and get it more in the forefront of people's minds

so they understand that there is a third way.

- So, I mean, I'm not desensitized,

but I take things for what they're worth,

and I do know that there's some horrible stories

in the sex trade and I'd like to think

that I'm actually one of the people

trying to make it better, not worse.

- I see prostitution as one of the big impediments

to the equality of women.

So of course we'll continue to fight,

and it's a fight that needs to take place not only legally,

but also politically.

Subtitling: CNST, Montreal