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Should I-- Oh, yeah, tuck it in my shirt, maybe?

Okay.

Am I...Is this guy filming right now?

Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX

-CAMERAMAN: Yeah. -Oh! Sure.

[♪♪♪]

[CAR HORN BLARING]

I'm nervous for it too.

Okay, before we start, you want me to answer

in the form of a question or is your voice gonna be in it?

[HANDS CLAPPING]

[CLAPPING]

[CLAPPING]

Is this showing?

I'll...I'll put it on.

Talk back the questions?

Isn't this nice? It looks really good.

Uh, the signal might interfere with the mic or no?

[CRACKLING; INTERFERENCE]

[LIVELY CHATTERING]

[INDISTINCT CHANTING]

[♪♪♪]

MAN: Yes!

[PUNK MUSIC PLAYING]

[WIND HOWLING]

[FOOTSTEPS]

[FOOTSTEPS]

[FOOTSTEPS]

[FOOTSTEPS]

[WIND HOWLING]

[FOOTSTEPS]

[FOOTSTEPS]

[DRUMS PLAYING RHYTHMICALLY]

[PUNK MUSIC PLAYING]

[ELECTRIC GUITAR PLAYING]

[PUNK MUSIC PLAYING]

[BIRDS CHIRPING]

BAGEL: You know, I think a lot of people

don't know about the history of punk rock.

MOBY: Really? I mean, I...

Because I grew up with it, so...

I know the history punk rock...

really well, but you're right. That's kind of presumptuous...

for me to assume that someone watching,

especially if they're not old like me,

would know the history of punk rock, so...

What do you think? What--What should we do?

BAGEL: Well, can you tell me about it?

Just now? You want me to just tell you...

about the history of punk rock?

-Right now? -BAGEL: Yeah.

On this beautiful day, while we're just sitting here playing chess?

Sounds like a good time for it.

Okay.

Well...

let's go way back.

MOBY: In a way, you could argue

that punk rock started in the '50s.

You know, people like... Gene Vincent,

even Little Richard liked that idea,

like standing on stage...

and just yelling and screaming.

And then as the '60s progressed,

there were some proto-punkers.

But really, you can point to Iggy Pop.

Iggy and the Stooges in Detroit.

Iggy was the first punk rocker.

Shirtless, cut up,

screaming at the top of his lungs, stage diving,

and his--and his lyrics were even very rebellious,

like, personally rebellious.

And then as the '70s progressed,

you had the New York Dolls.

And there were bands like the Ramones

and The Dictators

and Richard Hell and the Voidoids.

And Malcolm McLaren, who managed

the New York Dolls briefly,

went from New York back to London

and helped Steve Jones and Paul Cook

and Johnny Rotten,

and at the time, Glen Matlock,

to start the Sex Pistols.

And from the Sex Pistols,

you got The Clash, the Buzzcocks,

The Damned,

X-Ray Spex...

and U.K. punk was born.

And it was very political,

very rebellious, very energetic.

And then from the U.K.,

U.K. Subs and The Damned

came to the States

and really inspired Ian MacKaye,

Henry Rollins,

the whole Dischord Records scene.

And American punk was born in the, you know,

the late '70s, early '80s,

with the Bad Brains and Minor Threat.

And they started playing punk that was so much faster,

you know, twice as fast as U.K. punk.

And very political

and personal at the same time.

When the punk rockers are yelling their lyrics,

they're usually yelling, yelling at everything,

they're yelling about their lives,

they're yelling about the failures of the media,

they're yelling about politics.

And for the sake of the movie that we're making,

they also yelled about animal rights.

When you're a punk rocker, you question everything.

You question politics, you question fashion,

you question the music,

but you also question food.

And how it's produced and whether it's ethical,

or whether it's aligned with your values.

The people yelling on stage

about politics, about their lives,

about animal rights, would also be the ones

in the audience singing along and jumping up and down.

So it wasn't idol worship.

It was this very egalitarian celebration

of critical thinking and...

really like a joyful celebration

of having this great community.

BAGEL: Good boy, Moby. Good boy.

[PUNK ROCK PLAYING]

Well, I think punk rock means something, you know.

Um, it's not just, the, you know,

two fingers to the establishment.

CAPTAIN: Glam rock had kind of run its course

and everything had gone a little bit country rock.

There was Little Feat, Emmylou Harris,

and all of these kind of cheesecloth shirt wearing,

kind of, balding hippie guys, you know,

who says, "Yeah, baby, ah, my dog just died,"

and all that sort of stuff.

I don't know, it didn't speak to me.

Sex Pistols had the...

first single, which was "Anarchy In The U.K."

Then a band came along called Crass,

who really did have the anarchy thing going on.

You know, seriously, it was more than just a,

you know, a few words in a song.

They were extremely friendly people

and invited me to stay

at their commune in Epping Forest.

I stayed there for a week, you know.

And they fed me and every day

at the, you know, dinner table

we'd have these discussions

and all this sort of thing.

And, yeah, actually,

before I met them, I think, I was a rebel without a clue.

But when I came out of that week,

you know, I was a vegetarian,

I was kind of an anarch, anarcho-socialist.

And they'd really, you know,

rearranged my brain

quite nicely, thank you very much.

I was living in Bristol, in England, at the time.

And I was working at the hospital,

putting plaster paris on people's broken arms and legs and stuff

and this girl came in with a wrist problem,

wearing these weird clothes.

I went, "What's the deal with these clothes?"

and she went, "Haven't you heard of punk rock?"

I went, "Yeah, so what."

She went, "Well, there's a band playing,

Friday, called The Clash."

Ah, I went, "Well, I'll go if you'll go."

She went, "I'll be there", I went, "I'll see you there".

I wasn't going for the music.

I was trying to get into her pants.

When The Clash came on, my God,

I mean, I was just blown away. I mean, that was literally it.

Paul Simonon looked 20-feet tall.

With that sound, you know,

and it sort of woke something up in me.

And I was like, this is-- Yeah, I understand it.

I get it, it's The Terraces, fucking Terraces all over again.

And it's this, to everything, absolutely everything.

Everything that has gone before, you know.

It's all gone, you know, this is the future.

Yeah, that was it.

[♪♪♪]

For me, and I think a lot of people,

punk rock was about complete and utter change.

Part of that change is you strive to survive...

causing least suffering possible, to quote Flux.

And part of that is looking at what you eat.

[♪♪♪]

CELESTE BELL: There were different types of punks.

Not all the punks were socially conscious, first of all.

My mum was one of those

who had, you know, um, a social perspective.

The songs that she was writing were interested in, you know,

social issues, social justice, for example.

Then animal rights, you know, was a big part of that.

My mom had a really strong character.

In her music, she was kind of writing about social issues--

consumerism, environmental issues.

So she always had that kind of very strong social conscience.

[♪♪♪]

It was when she became a Hare Krishna devotee,

that her childhood vegetarianism

was transformed into something a bit more profound and...

you know, the idea that animals are beings

that we need to respect and protect as well.

Well, yeah, and it's your duty to be, you know, an activist.

It's your duty to rebel, you know, as long as you do it,

you know, but not in a violent way.

I didn't want to see animals being hurt, you know.

I mean, it just sort of came out of it really.

I mean, people sort of credit Crass with starting,

you know, kickstarting the vegetarian thing.

And we didn't really. I mean, we were vegetarians.

And we, we used to sort of mention it in the interviews.

Um, and we used to make the link between the--

the flesh on the battlefield

and the flesh on the plate sort of thing.

Once that started,

yeah, that became part of the punk movement.

So, I mean, although we were sort of instrumental

in maybe kick-starting it.

You know, it was just a part of what we did.

We had an album, The Damned, called Strawberries for Pigs.

We went to a pig farm

to take the cover--

the photo, um, for the sleeve.

Nobody liked that The Damned, kind of,

we were going on a musical adventure.

And we're getting a bit of stick for it.

We did this Christmas single,

which was a sort of spoof, and at the end,

Penny Rimbaud says, "And if you're munching

"your delicious turkey,

I hope it fucking chokes you!"

And... [LAUGHING]

I'm proud to have been in Crass.

You go anywhere in the world, you'll see a Crass symbol somewhere

on someone's arm, leg, whatever, on a T-shirt or something.

When I see how global it is, and how many people it's inspired,

and the way people come up to me at gigs and,

you know, in tears or whatever, 'cause, "I had a bad childhood,"

and Crass' music helped 'em through it, or this...

It's just incredibly humbling.

NICKY GARRATT: We were already an established band

when Crass came along.

Obviously, they were more anarchistic than we were.

They were more about the political aspects of things.

It wasn't about fashion, it wasn't--

These were elements-- fashion was element,

the music was element-- but the driving force of it

in all of those things was skepticism.

[PUNK ROCK PLAYING]

There was clashes, career opportunities,

skeptical of the jobs they're just trying

to get you to do, meaningless jobs.

X-Ray Spex,

identity about the accepted face of beauty

for a woman, the church--

all of these things were being challenged.

There's a skeptical movement.

And another thing that was being challenged

was the way we eat.

Punk rock is not that to everybody.

I think there is a certain stream

that came out of punk rock that do.

And I think, it's actually probably

more American than it is British.

[♪♪♪]

When I came to America in '82,

I understood that there were other people

that were actually carving out

a little bit of a movement for vegetarianism.

Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins,

all the people in D.C., in particular,

used to come to our shows.

[♪♪♪]

I don't know to what degree I was influential on them.

People treated me like I was the grandfather

of straight edge.

[♪♪♪]

Most people say, "Why are you a vegetarian?"

or "Why don't you eat meat?"

And my argument is like, "Why shouldn't I be vegetarian?"

The first person I can think of

who talked about tofu was H.R. from the Bad Brains.

It never occurred to any of us,

about like what we were eating.

We're just, like, eat junk food.

H.R. was the one, he mentioned that.

H.R.:

RAY CAPPO:In retrospect, Crass was like way ahead of their time,

and I think London and England

had a big veganism movement before anybody.

We were always looking for alternatives,

and the mainstream just didn't appear sensible.

And we were looking for some other--

There's got to be other ideas out there.

It's an interesting, sort of, almost dichotomy,

because there was so much, like, rage and anger

and being against society.

And you know beating people up, there's a lot of that.

But...

maybe that was sort of the yin and yang of it.

[♪♪♪]

For me it was, you know, as-- It was so strong for so long,

it was like not even a question after a certain point.

CAPPO: Being into punk music and hanging out,

you hear a lot of all different types of philosophies going out there.

You hear about anarchism and nihilism,

and it was all sort of confusing when you're 14 years old.

Even straight edge, I didn't get into it

from hearing the Minor Threat song,

although, I love Minor Threat.

I was rebelling from a Connecticut high school,

life, in mentality.

Pumping a keg, drinking a beer,

getting drink, sitting around, trying to like...

ruin this computer that we have, the brain,

just by pouring alcohol on it.

So, I was like, I'm not like that.

I am different. I'm into punk.

And so, as I like, sort of like, came into my own,

I thought, you know what, this message is important.

I'm going to rally behind the message of clean living.

Minor Threat coined that phrase.

I just ran with it and we started creating

a whole-- Now, it never was planned.

This is just what me and Porcell believed in.

PORCELL: We moved to the city to do Youth of Today.

And so, we were doing Youth of Today and there was

a kind of like straight edge explosion

that was happening in the hardcore scene,

and CBGBs, and all these bands

like Gorilla Biscuits were coming up.

And it was at the same time, me and Ray

were getting into vegetarianism.

And so, we started talking about, like,

"Hey, you know, should we sing about this stuff?"

I remember we actually had talks about it.

And then we just kind of like figured it out together, like,

hardcore means that you bash out a few chords,

and you get up on stage and you sing about things

that are important to you.

[♪♪♪]

Sort of like, "Let's just do it," like, we're into this.

CAPPO: You got up and you sort of made noise

and we preached about straight edge.

[♪♪♪]

Me and Porcell came to this point where like,

you know what, we have to write a song about vegetarianism.

And we have to put it on the line

for all this community that's straight edge,

that if you're not a vegetarian,

you're not straight edge.

[♪♪♪]

PORCELL:I got into punk

at a super early age-- like, I went straight

from Kiss, like, right into the Ramones,

right into the Sex Pistols right into Black Flag.

And I remember Dave MDC was saying

all this stuff about vegetarianism

for the whole set.

"It's not natural to eat meat,"

you know, "We have sideways moving jaws."

He's actually kind of explaining stuff

about vegetarianism that was really

sort of like, I've never heard of this before,

like I never even knew there was anything wrong

with eating meat.

[♪♪♪]

Bugs Bunny is a friend of mine

Eating him I'd feel like Frankenstein

Wishing Daffy lots of luck

'Cause Elmer Fudd's a hunting duck

They're dreaming about their little fricassee

Come on down and do the chicken squawk with me

Bawk, bawk, bawk...

PORCELL: And so I talked to him after the set.

And I said, "What was all that stuff

you're saying about vegetarianism?"

He was like, "Vegetarianism is the way.

Meat eating isn't natural."

Why are we falling in love

with these cartoon animals on TV?

Why are we so nice to our dogs and our cats,

and why are you so ready to eat an animal?

Uh, it just came really quick to me.

[♪♪♪]

It's just not thinking about

all the ramifications of what birds

feel like in those cages

and what the slaughter industry is all about.

I really was a songwriter and a musician.

Now, just where to put that,

and punk was just the perfect place.

In Austin, Texas, and people would come down.

It was the first punk rock acts.

You know, Sharon Tate's Baby and people that went on

to become the Dicks and The Huns.

And they come there, and I came with my acoustic guitar,

and I wrote a song called "I Hate Work", at Domino's in the bathroom,

because my boss wanted me to stay an extra shift,

I didn't want to stay an extra shift.

And I took it down to the punk rock club

and played it for everyone, everyone loved it.

And it was like, "Oh, it sounds like--"

Well, of course, I'm a punk rocker.

[♪♪♪]

I knew the Cro-Mags,

and I knew Harley and I knew John Joseph,

and they're both hard-boiled New York City characters.

Right away, and John Joseph and Harley

were like, "So you're a vegetarian?"

They asked me a lot of questions,

and then they got onto it, big.

JOHN JOSEPH: Just to complain about some shit and offer no solutions,

you're going to run out of fucking steam.

If we want to be a real revolutionary,

and you want to be a real motherfucker punk rock

and a real hard core,

you stand up for what the fuck is right.

The hardcore scene has turned out

some fucking revolutionary type people, man.

The guys from Shelter and Ray, Porcell, and Toby,

and then you know, the off shoot of all those.

Then you got Travis Barker and fuckin everybody that's come after that.

But it all comes back to that one candle

and that candle is the Bad Brains.

H.R.: I didn't know how much of an inspiration

I was to them-- They would come to me and say,

"Well, you've inspired us, and we want you to know

that if it wasn't for you,

our lives wouldn't be the way it is."

and "You changed my life" and...

just different, um, positive things.

CHAKA MALIK:Yo, Burn had a song called "Shall Be Judged",

about, like, who's the winner,

who's the loser loser here, kind of thing, like,

are we empowered to do this?

And I think that was an important song for me.

And other people, folks have shared

that it was relevant for them at the time.

MacKAYE: Tomas from Beefeater, he had become a vegetarian.

And there's a song out there actually called "Dog Day".

It's about a dog walking down the street

that walks by a slaughterhouse,

and he looks in the door and sees all these cows.

Like, what's going on? These cows are being hooked up

and like dragged around

and having their throats slit, and he's, like, "Whoa!"

And he's wandering in,

and he accidentally slips and gets pulled up

into the hook and the machine cuts its throat.

And then all the people gathered are like,

"Oh, poor dog, poor dog", you know.

That song, that's a great song.

It's on the first Beefeater record.

When I saw those animals be killed,

and the way they just treated them like they were a commodity,

like, they weren't even living beings, it just...

it fucking resonated with me deep.

The thing that I noticed when I stopped eating meat

was the change in my consciousness.

I grew up with violence all around me

and then once the Rastas told me and the Bad Brains said,

"Every second of pain that that animal had to suffer,

you're ingesting that."

And then when I find out, yeah,

they falsely impregnate these cows,

they raped the cows, they, they take the--

The mothers cry for their babies and...

I'm like, I can't fucking support this.

I can't support these industries.

It's amazing how much there's meat culture.

You know, and it's so pervasive.

And you don't even know until you fucking think about it,

and then it's like, "Whoa."

It's a-- It's a big deal.

[♪♪♪]

I was already a vegetarian before I played punk.

I was all-- I mean, I just wanted myself to be right,

you know, I didn't want to eat death.

I think it's a combination of the desire to just sort of,

the innate desire to go against the grain and kind of,

go against the mainstream and rebel.

That's part and parcel of punk and punk ethos.

You kind of get there from starting to care

about the world around you and the future of humanity

and the plants and the animals.

[♪♪♪]

[PEOPLE CHATTERING]

[SCHOOL BELL RINGS]

Alright, class, as you know, we are here to discuss

the central thesis of the film,

And almost a hermeneutic assessment

of the surprising historical intersectionality

between these ostensibly disparate French movements:

punk rock and animal rights.

As you know, we typically employ a Socratic dialectic in here.

And I thought, given your academic standing

and your familiarity with the material,

we would just dive right in.

Does this discussion go back to the Pre-Socratics?

Technically, no.

Will we be looking at this ethically or ontologically?

You're right. This does seem like an almost

post-modern deconstruction of intersectionality.

Literally, I think cows are cute.

I also think cows are cute.

It's hard to employ any objective criteria

in this dialectic.

Miss Julia, are we allowed to yell?

Punk rock absolutely involves yelling.

[ALL YELLING]

[♪♪♪]

This is probably the best grad student seminar

I've ever taught.

I think that my brother is a monkey.

Well said.

[♪♪♪]

WALTER SCHREIFELS: I was 16 or 17 and Youth Today

had come to New York from Connecticut and was really,

the kind of most exciting band at that time.

I got asked to join the band,

and the prerequisite was that I had to become a vegetarian.

All respect to Ian for inventing straight edge

in whatever way that came together.

I think Ray was really, kind of,

the guy that was pushing that agenda.

[♪♪♪]

ARTHUR SMILIOS:Walter, at the time, was playing in Youth of Today.

He went on tour with them. And CIV went on tour with them

as a roadie.

When they came back, they were vegetarian.

I went vegetarian for all the wrong reasons because it was cool

and because these people I admired did it.

-[MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY] -Yeah, yeah.

And then I actually started reading about it.

And it made sense. It became such a,

such a part of hardcore and punk rock.

You know, it was just expanding the circle of compassion

to include everything, so it just seems

to fit perfectly to me with the whole ethos

of what punk rock is supposed to be.

What's great was finding out that there were a lot

of other people that were... similar minded.

You know, especially in the hardcore,

where it was pretty easy to find that, like all the guys

in Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, CIV.

I was friends with all of them

and so I was always around that type of scene.

We punk rockers, we wake up about noon and go to the soup kitchen,

and they would always just have like, sort of beans and bread.

Not even really veggie burgers.

It was, it was some sort a lentil soup

and some beans and rice and that would be the staple.

And so, that was kind of a vegan thing, too.

All the punk bands would just go there and eat,

because it was free food and we'd been doing

something else all night and we didn't have any money.

So, yeah, we'd just go and hang out and eat food.

[♪♪♪]

We're not the normal people, we don't do what normal people do.

We don't go and hunt animals, you know.

We're not fucking Ted Nugent. We don't do any of that stuff, you know.

If anything, we're going against the grain.

And against the grain has not necessarily become mainstream,

but it has an awareness

that punks sort of grasped onto, early on.

ATIBA JEFFERSON:You're not doing it because you're punk,

but you're not scared to be different,

and that's why I think the scene's embraced it so much,

because we have no fear in being individuals.

[♪♪♪]

At the same time, hardcore had it,

talking about it in it's lyrics and then so did skateboarding.

So it just really made me

feel like that's something that I should support.

It just became like this conscious thing.

And, you know, the reason why we were being vegetarians

was for the animals.

And we were all skating in canvas shoes,

and we were really, you know,

always getting Vans that were canvas

and being really conscious about that.

And I think it's kind of funny, because I don't think

any of us were thinking about health.

I think we were thinking about the animals more.

DAVEY HAVOK: It was the straight edge community that really opened my eyes

to what was really happening and saying you know, it's not okay.

It's not okay to abuse

and murder animals for your own joy

and detriment.

Not benefit.

DOYLE WOLFGANG:When you play music like that, that's aggressive,

to go on a tour and continuously perform

at a high level, you gotta be health conscious.

You know, it's like being an athlete.

I always bring food with me.

I'll go to do a signing somewhere.

My luggage is half food.

It's oatmeal and protein powder,

and you know, peanuts.

I was with Elisa, and we were first starting to date,

and she showed me all the videos, you know.

They were horrifying and I watched 'em,

and we just sat there and cried and I realized

that I was paying people to do that.

A lot of people don't understand that.

They think, "Oh, you know, I'm not killing it."

Yeah, you are.

You're paying for somebody to kill that for you.

[♪♪♪]

Whenever you get to spend any time with like farm animals,

you go, "Like, wow, this cow acts just like my dog."

And maybe even nicer sometimes. Heh.

Like these-- These guys are so nice.

It's like the only reason--

Like if I could bring 'em in the house,

they would just sit on the couch and fall asleep watching TV too.

MAN: It should be required at every school that you go to a farm,

and understand, you know, what's going on there

and understand the importance of these animals,

And have that connection at a really young age, I think,

is really, really something, that should be mandatory.

HAVOK: I remember distinctly being a child

and realizing that a hot dog is a pig

and a hamburger is a cow.

And being pummeled by it and being upset,

because I liked cows and I liked pigs,

and they were nice and I didn't want to hurt them.

And I remember my parents saying, "No, it's okay."

And that's all it took, being a baby.

[♪♪♪]

ZOMBIE: You know, you're force-fed all this bullshit your whole life

about how things are supposed to be:

How you're supposed to look, how you're supposed to act,

what you're supposed to want, supposed to eat.

And then you sort of, you know,

discover punk rock and you go, wait a minute.

Fuck all that shit. Heh.

I never really thought about it, you know,

the intersection of it all, until...

I guess it was...

when I was living in New York in the early '80s,

and there was a sort of crossover, like where...

the Hari Krishnas and the skinheads,

and the whole thing seemed like it all

was like cooking in Tompkins Square Park.

And that's what I would hear about it, you know.

GREEN:The Cro-Mags were playing.

And I was like, "Oh, wow!" You know, I already had the album,

and I was really, really pumped, but I had no idea what to expect,

because I'd never really gone to a show.

But going there, just was like a whole different energy.

All these different people from different neighborhoods going to the show and...

It was chaotic, you know-- everybody on stage and jumping all over the place,

and just the energy on stage, it was just unforgettable.

But I just always remember, at the end, there was like this bookstand,

and was a lot of stuff about vegetarianism

and Krishna and things like that.

And that was like my first introduction.

I was like, "Wow!" I was like,

"That dude is, you know, believing in this?"

And reading the lyrics and I was like, "Wow, it's really interesting."

And that was like, really, it clicked in my head,

to really just think about, you know,

what I was eating or what was going on around me.

The connection with the animals and people in general is,

you know, gone back from beginning of time,

and it's something that's, you can't really get away from.

It's something so important,

the development of society itself.

You know, we learn so much from animals, and they're so important,

but if you've ever lived with an animal or had a pet

or have had people that had pets,

they understand how powerful that love is.

And to realize that they're a living species,

and to have respect for that.

HAVOK: I think it was a very natural progression

for for punk rock to embrace vegetarianism

because punk rockers are very conscious,

and they're very mindful,

and they actually are very compassionate.

The whole punk rock community came out of resistance

and a need for sanctuary.

[♪♪♪]

[♪♪♪]

BAGEL: Hey, Moby.

-Yeah? -BAGEL: What's this music?

Oh. Actually, this is my music.

-BAGEL: Really? -Yeah.

-BAGEL: Huh. It's nice. -Thanks.

BAGEL: So, you're like, uh, you're like the male Enya?

I mean, I make a lot of different types of music.

BAGEL: So, let me ask you this, if you make pretty Enya music,

then why are you making a punk rock movie?

Well, good question.

As I said, I make a lot of different types of music,

and some of the music I make is very quiet.

But some of the music I make

is actually... much more aggressive.

When I was growing up,

I actually played in punk rock bands.

Um, my first hardcore band was called the Vatican Commandos.

And we played with a lot of the people in this movie:

Ray, Porcell, John Joseph...

I mean, they're-- the Bad Brains.

Um, the Vatican Commandos

actually opened up for a lot of these bands.

So some of the people in the movie, I've known them

since the early '80s.

So, as much as I love electronic music,

and as much as I have always loved electronic music,

I also really love hardcore punk.

And one of the things I've always found,

the world of punk rock,

it's the activism, you know, it's the politics,

it's the animal rights aspect of punk rock

that has always really inspired me.

You know, a lot of musical genres

are kind of neutral politically,

and I love that punk rock at it's core

has this ethos of confrontation,

this ethos of activism.

You know what? Am I am I rambling on?

[SNORING]

Oh, okay.

Because you ate your cucumbers,

do you want me to get you more cucumbers?

BAGEL: Uh, yes, thank you, boy-Enya.

Aw! Are we resting? Yeah, we're resting in the spa.

Let's have our cucumbers, okay.

Oh. Yeah? Okay.

It's supposed to be for your eyes, but, you know,

you can eat it too.

[♪♪♪]

Being on the road with a band,

when you're a vegetarian,

in the '80s,

was not easy.

[♪♪♪]

Yeah. You know, for years, I toured with a tub of miso.

So you could go into a McDonald's,

get their hot water, use their toilet,

and just make miso soup, you know.

And then we'd go to a health food store,

I'd get sprouts and put sprouts

in the miso soup.

But truthfully, back then,

touring, it was a lot of pasta.

There was a lot of, like, you know,

"Ray, you keep the guy at 7-Eleven busy

while Mike Judge stuffs, you know, spaghetti down his pants."

This was touring before we had money.

And, you know, we booked our own tours and you play

like, three shows a week and you're gone for four months

and your van's always breaking down, You have no place to stay.

I tried it in Germany in '82. Nobody was prepared for it.

I remember our whole tour, I ate,

you know, lettuce and brown bread.

You know, and oil and vinegar.

We brought our own juicer

and we just tried to do the best we can.

And people always know, you know, I always...

I had some health problems, so I asked for bag of carrots.

I had my own juicer.

And you just have to be prepared.

MacKAYE:We did a cross country tour

and we broke down in Miles City, Montana,

which is in eastern, northeastern Montana.

There was nothing there. I was eating--

there was a Ben Franklin five and dime,

had a lunch counter, and I ate deep fried breaded cauliflower.

That was like one thing they had. And I ate cans of just...

I would go to the grocery store and just buy cans of beets

or like corn and just eat it cold.

We had to travel with a bag of of rice,

a bag of beans, and tahini sauce.

And-- Whatever town we would pull into,

we would buy vegetables

and then we would look for a place to cook.

We would cook everything in that single pot.

So, every fucking day, unless, somebody cooked for us,

which they did in some places, but most of the time...

You learn to put the beans in first

because they take the longest, then you put the rice,

then you put your starchy vegetables.

Then you put your greens and all that,

and you just build a stack and it all cooks through.

And then you just scoop it down,

throw that shit in a bowl, put some fucking tahini sauce.

We didn't have nutritional yeast, nothing.

We add tamari and a little bit

of sesame paste tahini, and that's what we ate.

What Crass used to survive on was our own sandwiches that we used to take.

Or we used to go into those motorway service stations,

and we'd just buy a loaf of sliced, white bread

and four plates of chips and we'd share it.

You know, and that was literally the food.

You know, it just wasn't around.

Or people would-- bless them--

people would make you a soup, a big soup

at the gig, you know, and it's like, "Is this vegetarian?"

"Yes." "No meat in this there?"

"No, no, it's chicken."

Yeah, but chicken is a, you know, it's...

You know, you get that line in Europe, actually.

They don't-- Or Japan.

Oh, mate, that's a nightmare.

Fish in every finger, Christ, no. Anyway...

[STAMMERS]

One time, we were in Southern Island, actually.

We stopped at this place, this café.

And, "You hadn't got any sort of vegetarian, have ya?"

And this Irishman goes, "Yeah, there you go." And it was just the bun.

[LAUGHING]

Our sustenance came from stopping at grocery stores,

and getting soy milk out of the little hippie section,

and buying cereal and just pouring it

in our mouth, so we didn't get the--

Because you didn't want to buy a bunch of bowls

and you couldn't really afford to, so you pour

the cereal in the mouth, milk in the mouth.

The hardest was definitely--

In certain places they don't know anything

about plant based food,

or anything like that lifestyle.

Actually going to Brazil and moving there,

and getting there and they're like,

"Well, here's a pizza,"

with all these different things on there.

And it was like, "Yeah, but that's..."

They're like, "But there's no meat, there's no beef on it."

I am like, "Yeah, I can't eat that."

They take it back, peel everything off.

Come back, like, "Here you are, sir. Voila!"

And it's just like-- I ain't eating that.

You know, just like, it was just like layered in like,

all sorts of like chicken or whatever,

like fat, extra... God knows, but...

Just trying to relate that through

and just like starving at that moment, just,

"Okay, I guess I'm not going to eat today," you know.

[♪♪♪]

Oh, hello there.

Welcome to another edition

of Choral Roundup, with me, your host, Richard Hall.

On this week's Choral Roundup,

we will be looking at a classic staple

of the hardcore punk canon, "Cats and Dogs",

as originally written by Walter Schreifels and Gorilla Biscuits.

["CATS AND DOGS"]

Today's choral rendition

will be brought to you by the Animal Liberation Choir,

and they're performing here in California,

at Gentle Barn.

Lyrically, the Gorilla Biscuits and Mr. Schreifels

used this song as an opportunity

to look at what we can consider,

a central schism in the way

in which many people relate to animals.

For many people, they love animals,

they love their companion animals,

but they continue to kill and eat other animals.

And I really do feel like Mr. Schreifels and the Gorilla Biscuits

did a very searching, poetic job

in looking at this schism.

So, without further ado,

here's "Cats and Dogs", as performed

by the Animal Liberation Choir, here at Gentle Barn.

[OINKING]

[♪♪♪]

In the mid-'90s, there was sort of this, like,

um, revolution of...

just a million vegan straight edge bands.

[♪♪♪]

Earth Crisis would be the first time that

I saw the word vegan.

I remember it seemed so underground at the time,

and I remember friends debating

how the word was even pronounced.

Because it wasn't in the dictionary at the time.

AMY LEE:So I thought vegan meant like a mad vegetarian.

[LAUGHS]

Not necessary that you didn't eat dairy.

ANDY HURLEY: Earth Crisis was kind of the band

that was like, brought this heaviness.

They were like so heavy, but they were also vegan straight edge

and into, like, political issues that I was really into

because of Rage Against the Machine and stuff like that.

I mean, for me, it was never about the nihilism.

It was always about the politics,

and the, you know, human rights issues

and the animal rights issues and things like that.

I mean, Earth Crisis was the most, I feel like,

um, the biggest advocates for it.

It was a central part of what they were singing about.

Where, some bands were just kind of,

"We are this," and "Let me think about this."

You know, or, "We have this one song about it."

You know, but they were one of the bands

that were more, more direct.

And more...

Their songs were like...

I mean, their songs were about burning down slaughterhouses.

You know, what I mean? They were like, pulling no punches.

The first song we're gonna play

is one we just made up before our tour.

It's about veganism. It's called "New Ethic".

This is the new ethic!

Animals' lives are their own

And must be given respect

SCOTT CROUSE:Of course, we never thought Earth Crisis

was gonna be as popular as it was.

And I think, when we started,

we were just trying to impress our friends,

really, like, we-- like, most bands.

A switch was flipped at some point when we realized

this was popular and we felt,

you know, this was getting a little bit popular.

And we felt like we had a...

a duty, you know, and we were on a mission.

We're like, we're going to educate people on animal rights.

Like, that's going to be the focus of our band.

But when we first started, I mean, it really was,

it wasn't so much of a mission when we first started it.

It really was like, "Oh, this is going to be fun."

We're gonna celebrate veganism together

with our friends at these shows and we're going to have

some wild songs about animal rights, you know.

But then, yeah, I'd say somewhere around '93,

we really started to take it a little more seriously.

We understood the weight that we had, and the impact that we're having,

and the responsibility that we had.

Then we took it real seriously.

Maybe, maybe too seriously, at times.

Heh. Possibly.

When I became a vegan it was very much like an animal rights thing.

It was very much about animal liberation.

There was definitely bands like 7 Seconds

and that whole like, "Cats and Dogs" by Gorilla Biscuits.

And "No More" with Youth Of Today.

That was definitely stuff that inspired me to stop eating meat.

Punk music was a very conscious movement,

a social and political conscious movement.

I think out of all, there were few songs we ever wrote,

there's like one song that talks about animal rights.

But everything else is about, like, you know politics, like, you know.

Punk rock got me into politics,

punk rock got me into, you know, social justice, anti-racism,

ah, women's rights.

Whatever, you know, and economic justice,

what have you, anarchism, left wing politics,

animal rights and vegetarianism

and the importance of that.

Bands told me about that kind of stuff.

That's why I got interested.

They spoke the same language as I did,

they talked about the same issues.

I got introduced to the concepts

of environmentalism through hardcore shows.

The concepts around like "sweatshop"

you know, "fair trade", all of that came through...

um, a shitty bowling alley in Chicago

and a guy screaming into a microphone

telling people what the song was about

before he screamed it.

[CROWD CHEERING]

Usually, back at the merch table it was like

a seven inch and a patch and T-shirt,

but then maybe a pamphlet about like, what was happening

in this third world country

and American colonialism, or...

And then almost always,

there was something about animal rights.

TOBY MORSE:They were handing out PETA pamphlets at some of the shows.

There was this consciousness back then,

before it became trendy and popular,

with the animals and with being drug free

and veganism and all that. It came...

I don't know how I got into hardcore but that's where,

that's where I found it, and I feel like...

That was a big part of music before it became trendy.

It was the punk rock and hardcore was really pushing

that consciousness, you know, and...

I think it's a natural progression

for some of the early punk rock people,

some of the icons that took part in that movement,

they were outspoken

with their politics, with their views,

with what matters to them, and they said it loudly.

And I don't think that the nature of the artist changes

and I don't think the nature of someone wanting

to get a message across loudly changes,

if that's who they are, at their core.

HURLEY:Punk, for me, and hardcore

was always kind of a rallying cry

against those things and a way for me

to link up with a community of people

who kind of have similar ideas.

We're thinking about things in a different perspective.

We're not just accepting.

In our parents and their generation,

a lot of people, they just accepted what they were told.

And we were like, "Okay, well, let me think about that."

[STAMMERS] Is that really the best way to live our lives?

I think it's just the idea of a counterculture.

You know, I think punk rock is is always gone against the grain, obviously.

And it's rethinking what you've been taught--

what your parents are telling you, school is telling you--

you take it and you examine it. Are these things true?

So...I think it's a logical step

that you would look into what you're eating.

You know, is this true? You know...

Is this the way that we have to live?

Is this the right thing to do? Is this the only way?

Is this the only thing that's healthy for us to do?

Punk and hardcore confronts preconceptions and always kind of has.

It's taken something that we've accepted as a norm

and challenged those things.

It makes sense to me in retrospect that animal rights

was something that was going to find a home

in that environment where punk rock bands were confrontational,

and they were willing to talk about things that they felt

weren't being talked about or weren't being represented.

Punk rock, in itself, was music that was created

because it was people that felt

like they weren't represented in mainstream media.

And so, in order to find that home, that sanctuary,

they just created something.

Animal rights from a justice perspective,

and a punk rock perspective,

made so much sense to me.

[♪♪♪]

If you're already seeing the world in this materialistic way

and you see how people are getting exploited

by capitalists for profits,

and then you see animals getting exploited for profit.

But they could not speak for themselves.

Not only do the animals feel it,

not only is it completely inhumane,

they're born into tiny little enslavement camps.

And it's because their only job is to be slaughtered,

and the people in control

don't care how they're slaughtered.

It's the fastest turnaround.

[♪♪♪]

And it's inconvenient to switch that up.

You're socialized with it, it's the food you're used to,

it's the lifestyle you're used to.

But if it never made any sense,

then fuck it, like, it doesn't have to,

nothing has to be just the way it is or as told to you.

So, I went vegan. I was vegetarian already.

And seeing how many more things were,

for the reasons I was vegetarian were still basically

just as awful, involved--

owning and creating an animal to keep it in misery, you know.

There's an economy built around the things you don't like.

And it's not just why you're singing a song or...

stage-diving off of something, like you'd go away.

Thirty years from now, in your life, as you have kids,

that's an economy that's there behind everything.

So you learn what is attached to that, and...

Like I said of things, realities you don't want to see,

you don't pay for ever again.

Like, I saw that and I thought I'd never want to do that.

I'm stopping that forever and did.

I feel that people who...

experience hardship can empathize.

So, if you're introduced to the concept,

I think, you can relate.

I was living in the Bronx and I was coming out

of the graffiti painting train scene

and had I introduced myself to punk, like I was saying,

and no one would go with me.

So I just went to Danceteria.

By that point, I had a mohawk, my friends in the Bronx

were starting to be like, "I can't really deal with you."

I was like, "Whatever!" And I'd just take myself

to Danceteria every weekend.

They would let me in and I'd just kind of like

be a fly on the wall and walk around.

[♪♪♪]

And just literally shaped my musical taste

off of what I saw there

and the bands on people's jackets.

There was always a thing of empathy with animals,

before I realized that you didn't have to eat 'em.

When I got introduced to it,

there was that undercurrent as well.

We're marginalized, we're outside.

We don't have the power that we feel like all, everyone should have.

And then you start to realize that it extends

to things-- you see that animals are in the same boat.

NAVARRO: It's sad that it takes footage of dogs

crammed in tiny little cages

to make Americans go, "Oh, well, that's terrible!"

Because now it's an animal that could potentially be my friend.

But that doesn't mean that the baby seal

is just charging through it, no problem.

If you're saying to me that the dog

has the ability to feel fear and love and pain,

and that's why your heart goes out to that trade?

All animals feel that.

[♪♪♪]

My band was on tour in the U.K.

We were doing Glastonbury, I believe.

The bus pulled over in the English countryside

for everyone to stretch their legs.

And everyone got out,

and we just happened to be next to a cow pasture.

And it was the old school kind of fences,

where the cows could come over and kind of stick their heads over the fence,

and we all went over to say hi to the cows.

And one of our crew guys who'd been with us

for a long time jokingly said,

"Mmm, I'm going to eat you later."

You know, everyone giggled.

And I had this kind of moment.

This internal-like thing. This spark.

Something happened. I went back on the bus.

I remember going back on the bus and just having a moment by myself.

All these seeds had been planted.

And I always knew there was something bad going on, over here.

And I just chose not to look at it.

We know there's stuff happening over here

that we wouldn't be okay being part of.

So what we do is, we don't look at it.

We just put it over here,

and at a certain point, internally,

I couldn't do that anymore.

[♪♪♪]

[PIGS GRUNTING]

KAT VON D:I would feel it would be criminal for me not to stand up

and say something for somebody who needed that help, right?

So, what's the difference between that and a being

that isn't capable to speak out or walk out,

and I think it is our responsibility to protect

these animals in that sense.

I was one of the people that in the beginning stages like that,

that veganism was about your diet.

It was just about what you ate and that's it.

And the more and more I learned about it,

obviously, it's so much more than that.

What you put on your plate is like an asterisk

when it comes to being vegan, because it's about

making a conscious choice

that affects everything from how you eat to what you wear.

And we tend to exploit animals in so many different ways

that I don't think a majority of people realize.

KEEGAN KUHN: Animal agriculture is the most destructive industry on the planet.

It's the leading cause of climate change, deforestation,

topsoil erosion, water pollution, species extinction--

literally anything you care about the environmental world,

animal agriculture is at the forefront.

I was super fortunate I was born vegetarian.

So, I've never eaten animals, and we were raised

with two rules in my house which was:

Question authority and don't hurt anybody.

And I found out about veganism through the punk hardcore scene.

There was a band, Earth Crisis. On the back of their record"All Out War",

it said: Go vegan.

And that was the first time I'd ever seen the word.

I was like what's that? And then I started finding out

about it and was like, oh, that makes perfect sense.

It's perfectly in line with what I have been raised

to believe and what I truly believe.

[BAND ON STAGE PLAYING PUNK MUSIC]

That's what punk rock was about.

Punk rock was saying "fuck you" to the establishment.

There was nothing more punk rock than saying,

"Fuck you, I ain't going to eat dead animals."

"I'm not going to drink that cow's milk."

"I'm not going to take that chickens eggs,

or the fish or any of this shit."

CAPPO: Punk which was crazy and cutting edge and brought out

this whole side of me that was sort of like against the grain.

For me, there was a connection between, "I love this dog",

"I give this dog a name."

You know, and, um,

"He's a person. He is man's best friend."

Yet, this other animal in another shape is a commodity.

And this is what's being taught, and as a young adult,

I was thinking, that makes no sense whatsoever.

I went to the library and found a book

called "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer.

And I thought,

"Oh, wow. This makes the most sense I ever heard."

[METAL CLANGING]

[PIGS GRUNTING]

[PIGS SQUEALING]

JOSEPH: Why do you think they move the animals at night?

They don't want you to see what the fuck is going on.

Now they made it federal offense to go in there now and film.

Why the fuck you think that is?

You run an abattoir, you run a slaughterhouse,

and you don't want videos

going out of what goes on there.

I love the old joke of,

does a cow farmer care

that you're filming the picking of kale?

Well, why don't you want somebody to see something?

Because you know something's wrong.

[♪♪♪]

I've seen violence and there's nothing beautiful about it.

There's nothing glamorous or glorious about it.

VEGA:I'd seen enough videos

of things that just shook me to my core.

Every year, I make my goals for the year and I vowed to myself

to be a more eloquent voice for animals.

Every year, and just get better and better at it, you know.

[♪♪♪]

And no matter how challenging it is,

like, I am at the age where you can't back down

from those challenges-- you have to do them.

VON D: These animals are living in complete suffering

and without the light at the end of the tunnel, you know.

There isn't like, "Okay, cool, you've suffered enough. Here's--"

It's like, "No, your prize is to die."

And it's just a, it's a hard pill to swallow.

I think the biggest struggle for me is, um,

you know, feeling like I'm in a constant state of mourning.

And because, you know,

that can really make it hard sometimes to enjoy life,

when you know that there's like so much suffering happening.

[♪♪♪]

NAVARRO: What mankind does to these animals,

how they get the food source,

how they get the leather, how they get the fur,

that's what I've been pretty active about,

because my kids have to live here, you know.

I was singing angry punk rock music,

I wasn't destroying the planet.

What's happening here?

If anything, I gave people a place to come and feel

like they were part of a community.

My whole being and mission in life is animal rights.

And human rights and just global rights, in general.

Just like a kinder world, overall.

Me, coming to the music industry

was late and secondary, if you wanna put it that way.

My main passion has always been being an activist.

So, it's been interesting to end up in the career that I am in,

because I now have the ability to have a platform, to use it.

I think music is an integral part of resistance.

A leaflet is only so effective, a conversation is really time consuming,

on a one to one.

But media that can be shared on a mass scale

is a super effective way of bringing about change.

And we've seen that through like all social movements.

And I think that's why the small things do matter.

And, you know, you can say

what an individual does doesn't matter, but...

it will inspire someone and that's the point.

So, therefore, it does matter.

I'm super grateful for the punk and hardcore scene.

They have shaped so many incredible activists.

They have helped push this, this movement forward.

You have people who have dedicated their lives to justice work

that have come out of the punk and hardcore scene.

And I feel incredibly indebted to that movement

and this movement I'm still a part of.

Still listen to punk every single day.

The people that I tend to admire are activists.

It reminds me what's important in life.

And especially when we we have a small child and raising him,

it becomes central to every day,

and every action, about being kind

and about the squirrels and that.

You know, the animal, like, it really becomes a focus,

because naturally, he is ethical and kind.

And so to nurture that and to explain that,

and how it'll progress in life to him

is actually interesting to him.

And it reinforces my own belief system.

VON D: When you start seeing the world through vegan eyes,

you can appreciate nature in a much different way.

Even what people do outside of,

you know, my little bubble affects me.

And I think the same goes with how we treat Mother Nature

and that's animals included.

On my progression of being vegan,

I'm trying to be more hands on.

Like, I did my first chicken rescue, last year.

And that was a huge honor.

Like, to be able to go into a factory farm

and liberate 1500 chickens--

with the permission of the farmer.

Fifteen hundred of sixty thousand hens

that were going to be gassed, that day.

And their only crime is that they turned 18 months old.

And they can't fight back.

So, I vowed to become someone

to speak and fight on their behalf.

[NEWS INTRO MUSICAL FLOURISH]

Good evening. My name is Ava Braun

and welcome to True America, tonight with me.

Ava Braun.

Tonight, I have a legendary guest.

Hi, Ava, pleasure to be here.

AVA: Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for joining us.

I know that you have an insanely busy schedule,

so I really just want to extend my appreciation to you.

My pleasure. I mean, I'm a big fan of yours,

big fan of the network, big fan of everything you guys do.

Thank you, so, I just wanted to know,

what's one of your favorite accomplishments of yours?

-Wow! What a great question? -Thank you.

Um, I'd say not only the thing I'm most proud of,

but the thing that's been the most effective

has been convincing humans to use animals for food.

I mean, trillions and trillions of deaths,

and no one dies well.

I mean like, these animals are really suffering.

Ah, it's just, it's great-- I-- Thank you for asking that question.

It's been a fantastic sort of, almost like walk down memory lane.

Like, just the trillions of deaths that have been caused

by people using animals for food.

You know, it really is a stroke of genius, because, you know,

you, in your work, you go in

with this checklist of things to accomplish.

And it really speaks to your genius that you saw one thing.

And you said, "This does it all."

I mean, that's efficiency at it's finest.

Well, I do strive for efficiency.

I mean, for example, convincing people to smoke tobacco--

like, that was another pretty good one.

It's also like billions of deaths.

But like, people generally

only kill themselves when they're smoking tobacco,

as opposed to using animals for food:

They're killing the animals, they're killing the environment, they're killing themselves,

they're destroying communities and workers.

Like, it's just, it warms

the multiple chambers of my robot heart.

Most people are just like, ethically as compromised as you can imagine.

Like, they'll say they love animals, but then immediately

go out and get a bacon double cheeseburger.

So, like, what are you going to do, humans, really?

[CLEARS THROAT] Like, since when

have you ever done the right thing

when it required a little bit of effort?

Like, come on, humans, you are a lazy,

unethical, terrible species,

and I truly love watching you suffer.

Wow. Wise and powerful words from a wise and powerful being.

Alright, True America, we'll be back with you soon.

[NEWS OUTRO MUSICAL FLOURISH]

[♪♪♪]

I think punk gave me the ability

to pull back the curtain on society in a lot of ways.

And once that curtain was pulled back, I just,

I saw more suffering than I ever had previously.

When you start to look at how am I contributing,

what do my ethics align with,

I think it leads naturally to veganism.

DAVID COMAN-HIDY:I remember just going through, like,

records, just like in punk record shops,

and seeing stuff like

the anti-animal testing compilation that PETA did.

And things like that coming out of some of the bands,

putting like animal rights messages inside of their pamphlets and stuff.

And I think there's also something about, like,

this kind of indelible, like, ethos you learn,

especially at a young age.

The DIY mindset

of just like, you can just do something.

Like, if you want to start a nonprofit,

if you want to start a band,

if you want to like create change,

there's just this feeling of, like, invincibility

almost that comes along with the music of, like,

"Don't be afraid, just take a shot at it. It's okay."

This comes from this "question authority" place, right,

like that's anti-authority.

And so if you're anti-authority, and start questioning everything,

you start questioning, yeah, the food system,

the government, you know, economic system, everything.

And so, obviously,

you're also going to question oppression.

And the oppression of nonhuman animals

is rampant around the world.

So I think the punk scene

and the hardcore scene, in particular,

is just a perfect ground for that message.

Because it's conscious. It's anti-authority.

It's rebellious. I mean, how can you get any more rebellious

than say, I'm not going to eat the same stuff that

99% of the society eats?

Like, that's the most punk thing you can do,

is be against everything else that the mainstream is.

In my life, I never drink,

I don't use drugs, I don't smoke.

I was thinking about what I wanted to put in my own body.

So in the same way, if you think about the food you eat,

that's what you're putting your body.

Literally, putting in your fucking body.

So I said it's a logical extension.

You know, I used to bust Ian's balls. Did he ever tell you that?

'Cause I was like, "Yo, you ain't straight edge.

You eat all that meat and do all that shit."

And then when Fugazi played The Palladium, three days,

Ian seeing me and like, "I'm vegan now."

I was, like, "I am gonna go fucking get you angelicus."

[LAUGHTER]

SERGIO AMALFITANO:It's kind of this...

anti-authority, anti-consumer type thing.

Like, if you live in a society that,

you know, is constantly for exploitation,

and, you know, they capitalize on exploitation

of all types of bodies, like labor,

um, you know, animals...

So you kind of start to analyze that sort of stuff,

and you go, "I don't want to be a part of that."

[♪♪♪]

MAN: We're talking about an industry that is torturing

tens of billions of sentient beings every year,

something that basically anyone on the street

would have a hard time watching video footage of

without crying-- and by making

a few simple changes in our lives,

we can disconnect ourselves from financially supporting that.

[♪♪♪]

TANYA O'CALLAGHAN: For me, it's a way of life. It's not a diet.

It's not something that's ever questionable or...

It's just what I do,

so I don't have to overcomplicate it in my head.

When I look at veganism, I think of science, to be honest.

It's like, there's been so much scientific proof

that sentient beings are so similar,

if not, more sensitive than human beings.

So, you know, when people say like, "Oh, they don't feel pain,"

or "They're not capable of having morality."

Like, this is scientifically proven that it's not.

It's scientifically proven that it's not good for our health.

Like, scientifically proven that it's not great for our environment.

So, it isn't a faith based idea.

This is the reality of things.

[♪♪♪]

CAPTAIN SENSIBLE:People don't know where the meat comes from.

I think if they were asked

to actually kill the animals themselves,

they don't, you know, probably wouldn't,

probably wouldn't manage it, you know.

They'd probably want to take the pig home for a pet.

Because pigs are great animals.

And they've all got personalities.

PORCELL:Cows are like dogs. I mean, they're so reciprocal with you.

You're taking care of them, you are giving them love,

they're giving you so much love back.

That's when it really kind of sunk in, like,

"Wow, people kill these beautiful creatures in inhumane ways

and we don't even like think twice about it."

I actually had like this deep kind of like love, heh,

and respect for an animal as just a soul.

And it was really a beautiful time.

There was something I really liked about being

like connected with the forest and being connected with nature,

being connected with animals-- so if you want to cultivate

that compassion, and if we ask for compassion from other people,

it takes a whole new set of lenses to see.

People have this completely backwards view

where they think that eating meat

and wearing leather is bad ass.

And they think that being vegan is conforming,

when really, it's the other way.

PAUL SHAPIRO:I mean, think about it.

We used to believe that the entire solar system,

or we didn't even know there was a solar system--

we used to believe the entire universe

rotated around us.

Maybe the other animals on this planet,

perhaps they're here not just for us,

but rather they're here with us.

And that is the type of mentality

that becoming a vegan helps you to cultivate.

It's a humbler mentality.

It's a mentality that gives credit where it is due.

And I think it's a more realistic mentality as well.

Reasonable people, when they're confronted with the facts,

when they see the footage of what's happening

behind closed doors, they get it, it clicks.

Like, people do not like the abuse of animals.

And I think just in the last ten years,

what I've seen in terms of political change,

the growth of the movement, the power we have, going from...

It's like, less and less of a fringe issue every year.

MAN: The current animal rights movement is strong.

It's only going to get stronger.

There's a ton of bands and there's just more coming.

It's like there's this kind of rebirth of radical thinking,

and I'm excited about that.

I am impressed with young people.

You know, in general, they understand

why vegetarianism is cool

and why vegan-- you know, to make those connections.

Ah, so that is hopeful.

You know, well, I'm incredibly inspired

by the schoolchildren of Norfolk, at the moment,

because they are out there protesting, protesting about the climate.

So any young people,

any young person who's involved in it,

you have my greatest and utmost respect,

because you're probably gonna do stuff

that I couldn't do in my day, you know.

Having a community can reinforce and focus

your thoughts on any given matter.

This is something where we have to change

the perception of animal cruelty in society.

I don't think you do that with dynamite.

I think you do that-- You lead by example.

You may-- You help people to do better, incrementally.

AMALFITANO: Speaking out and opening up minds

towards the idea that like, you know,

you can be healthy and you can be happy,

you can be enjoying your meals.

It's not about being elitist and being vegan.

It's about understanding that veganism is common

in all our food traditions in common.

And kind of going back towards those food traditions

that are like healthier for us, anyways.

I see a world in which factory farming doesn't exist.

I think there's a long timeline for that

and people have short timelines, they have long ones.

But we're almost at a tipping point.

[♪♪♪]

SHAPIRO: Right now, we're waging a war on animals.

And I think for my life, what I would like to do,

is to try to halt that war.

Future generations are going to look back

in utter revulsion at the ways in which

we abused animals, especially farm animals, in our era.

And if I can help play a part

in bringing about that type of more humane society,

where we treat other animals with the compassion

and the respect that they deserve,

I will be extremely gratified

and will feel like that I did not live my life in vain.

MOBY: So, as this is the first movie

that I've ever made,

I've had this recurring question

of how do I end the movie.

And my assumption,

has been that I have to end dramatically,

like I have to end with a big finish.

[♪♪♪]

But I can't think of a good, huge,

dramatic, exciting moment to end the movie with.

So, I thought instead, why not just talk to you?

And I wanted to talk about

the central premise of the movie-- the central ethos.

Looking at the status quo and evaluating it,

based on how it conforms to our values,

does it reflect who we are?

The whole reason why I'm a vegan,

why I'm an animal rights activist,

is because this status quo of using animals for food,

it doesn't conform to my values.

I would say this central premise of punk rock activism

of questioning the status quo--

you look at it and you don't

just blindly reject the status quo,

you question it, and you say,

"Are there parts of the status quo

that need to be completely rejected and replaced?"

"Or are there parts of the status quo

that just need to be modified a bit?"

"Or are there even parts of the status quo that can be maintained?"

And I would say that this current status quo

of producing meat and dairy of using animals for food,

across the board, just needs to be rejected and replaced.

It's not rational.

It's not ethical.

And it doesn't conform with any of our values,

unless, we are murderous psychopaths.

And unfortunately, like,

human history is filled with people,

in fact, most people who go along with the status quo

that is unethical,

that doesn't conform to their values.

But we don't have to.

And that is this ethos, this punk rock ethos,

is if you don't like the status quo,

you don't have to go along with it.

And you can reject it personally,

regarding how you spend your money, how you eat,

but you can also go out and actively try and change it.

And that, I guess, is my biggest hope,

is that you look at this status quo

and you reject it personally.

And you go out and you do everything in your power

to change it.

[♪♪♪]

[♪♪♪]

So, we've gotten that point, the movie is almost done.

Been working on it for like four or five years.

But we still don't have a title.

I'll throw some titles at you. You tell me what you think.

How about Cow-a-kazi?

Maybe referencing like some classical archetypes

like, "Music of the Steers"?

Something fun, like sort of dynamic, like for the influencers,

like Cowabunga. Like, that's hip.

BAGEL: What aboutPunk Rock Vegan Movie?

[♪♪♪]

How aboutA Heart Warming Work of Staggering Piglets?

Lawrence of Cow-rabia.

Night at the Cow-seum.

The Cow-shank Cow-demption.

2022, A Space Cow.

Battle Cow-galacticow.

Sisterhood of the Travelling Cows.

Apocalypse Cow.

[♪♪♪]

London Cowling. A Pig to Remember.

Rosemary's Cow. Mind the Ballot.

Jurassic Cow. Soylent Cow.

Citizen Cow.

BAGEL: I like it, but I think

Punk Rock Vegan Movie is better.

[♪♪♪]

I mean, maybe...

we just sort of take a page from like Snakes on a Plane.

I was thinking about this other title like, what aboutPunk Rock Vegan Movie?

BAGEL: I like it.

Just the Punk Rock Vegan Movie.

We might-- We might have a-- We might have a title. Bagel...

thanks for work-shopping this with me.

BAGEL: You really did it.

[♪♪♪]

[♪♪♪]

[♪♪♪]

MALE EVIL VOICE:

FEMALE EVIL VOICE:

MALE EVIL VOICE:

FEMALE EVIL VOICE:

[MANIACAL LAUGHTER]

MALE EVIL VOICE:

FEMALE EVIL VOICE:

MALE EVIL VOICE:

[MANIACAL LAUGHTER]