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Corrected & Synced by Bakugan
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My, what a beautiful feast.
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Turkey, green bean casserole...
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(CHOKING UP)
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Gosh darnit, this family
just makes me feel
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like I'm the richest man on Earth.
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And it would not be a
Donnerman family Thanksgiving
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without Eva's yams.
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Aww... thanks, Mr. Donnerman.
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I'm so thankful that we could do
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a family Thanksgiving this year.
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I'm thankful the two of
you made it here safe,
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what with all the maniacs out
in the world these days.
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Okay, Dad.
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Well, I'm just saying, there's a reason
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every time I leave the
house, I'm carrying.
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Right, your gun.
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That's your answer to everything.
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Sarah, not now.
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No, he needs to get it.
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This country is in desperate need
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of common sense gun control.
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Oh, I get it, all right.
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You wanna take away my
rights to my guns...
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It doesn't matter how
much you like guns.
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...which the founding fathers gave me.
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We need to talk about this
country's gun problem.
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(SHRIEKS)
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You're right, we do.
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But neither of you know as
much about gun violence
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in America as you think you do.
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Who's this tur-dork-en?
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Okay, just for that,
I'm startin' with you.
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Hi, I'm Adam Conover.
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Hi, Adam! I'm Doris!
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And this is "Adam Ruins Everything."
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Closed Captions Provided by truTV
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Ew.
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You're here to tell him he's wrong about
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his precious gun rights, right?
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He is obviously here to tell you
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that gun control is unconstitutional.
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Nope, I'm not here to tell either of you
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what you want to hear.
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Both of you are gonna have
your beliefs challenged today.
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But how you can tell
me that we don't need
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basic common-sense gun control?
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I mean, we have to put an end
to all these mass shootings.
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Look, I am not gonna downplay
the fact that mass shootings
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are terrible,
all-too-frequent tragedies.
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But the hard truth is,
they're just the beginning
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of America's gun violence problem.
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And a lot of these common-sense
gun control solutions
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aren't the quick and easy
fix you think they are.
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Come on, I can think of
like a million things
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we could do right now.
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Number one, ban assault weapons.
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Yeah, we could do that.
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But if your goal is to
reduce gun violence,
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you should know that the biggest guns
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aren't the biggest problem.
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In 2015, shootings with rifles,
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including assault rifles,
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made up less 3% of gun
homicides in America.
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The majority of crimes are
committed with handguns.
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Enough about assault rifles.
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Does anyone want the pepper rifle?
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- Thank God!
- Oh!
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How can any of you eat right now?
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Okay, say we did ban sale of
some specific types of guns.
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It's not like every crime is committed
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with a brand-new firearm
straight from the store.
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There are an estimated 300 million guns
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already in circulation.
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Then let's just take them away.
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All right, uh, how do you
propose we go about that?
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Yeah, how exactly?
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Okay, so maybe it's not that easy.
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But what if we start
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by making it voluntary? A buy back?
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Unfortunately, studies show
that when cities and counties
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hold buy-back programs,
they mostly end up
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getting broken guns people
just don't want anymore.
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Here, take this one. It's jammed.
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(RIM SHOT)
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But Australia did a buyback
after they had a mass shooting,
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and mass shootings went down.
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So, let's just do whatever they did.
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Oh, that would never fly here.
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That's not a buyback.
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This is a buyback.
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Australia passed a federal ban
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on imports and sales on all automatic
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and semi-automatic guns.
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And we bought back guns
people already owned
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at full market value.
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That does make it insanely difficult
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and costly for you Yanks.
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America has 84 times as
many guns as Australia.
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The biggest reason we can't
just copy Australia,
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is that right now America doesn't have
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the cultural will to.
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Australia doesn't have anything
like the Second Amendment
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- or the NRA.
- Oh, "F" the NRA.
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Politicians need to stop
taking their dirty gun money.
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Actually, that's something
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many people misunderstand about the NRA.
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While it's true that they do spend
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a ton of money on lobbying,
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that's not the real source
of their influence.
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Their real power is
their mass membership
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and their ability to organize.
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Every year, a million people
receive NRA firearms training.
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And for many, even if they're
not officially members,
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the NRA is a way for
them to bond with others
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who share their view
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that guns hold a sacred
place in American culture.
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It's kind of like a social network.
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Yeah. I took lessons with that man.
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But more importantly, it's
also a social movement.
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Politicians aren't caving to the NRA
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because of their money.
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It's because they have millions
of civically-engaged members
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who show up to town halls and who vote.
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Hey, Dan, after bowling, 100
of us are gonna head over
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to see that congressman
tryin' to implement
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that new gun control policy,
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give him a piece of our mind!
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Dad, you cannot be friends
with these gun nuts!
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Man, are you guys ready to eat yet?
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No.
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Sarah, you might think that what the NRA
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is fighting for is wrong.
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Well, you're not alone.
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66% of Americans
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support stronger gun control laws.
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But focusing only on the
NRA's lobbying money
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is a big mistake.
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They're passionate, they're organized,
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and right now, there is no
comparable anti-gun organization
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that has their levels
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of mass membership or engagement.
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Well, why isn't there?
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We shouldn't have to live in a world
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where we're afraid to go to concerts
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and kids don't even feel
safe going to school.
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I am with you on that.
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And this is gonna be hard to hear,
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but it is the most important
misconception about guns
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that we need to correct.
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Mass shootings may get
all the media attention,
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but they're just a small part
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of the story of gun violence in America.
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Got that right.
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According to one estimate,
in the last 50 years,
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about 1,100 people have been
killed in mass shootings.
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But 93 people die of gun
violence every day.
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That means that we have more
gun deaths every 12 days
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than all the mass shootings in
recent U.S. history combined.
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Around 60% of America's gun
deaths are from suicides.
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The rest are largely urban
violence and accidents.
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Doesn't all that just show
we have to do something?
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Absolutely.
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But the fact is, America already has
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300 million guns in circulation,
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and they aren't just gonna
disappear overnight.
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If we really want to
reduce gun violence,
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we have to understand
that the right solutions
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aren't always the ones
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that seem the most
basic or common-sense.
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And focusing on the wrong solutions
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is just gonna distract us
from finding the right ones.
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(SLOW CLAP)
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Well said. Gun control's a pipe dream.
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Oh, not at all, Dan! We
have strong evidence
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that some gun control measures
do reduce gun deaths.
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Child access prevention laws,
certain background checks.
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I don't think the founding
fathers would like that.
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There's a reason we have a
Second Amendment, you know.
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Oh, the founding fathers
didn't nearly intend...
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(WHISTLING)
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Blue, 42.
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Set... shotgun!
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- (SCOFFS)
- You can't even go five seconds
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without yelling about guns?
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I will not stand here and allow you
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to besmirch the Second Amendment rights
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- given to us by our founding fath...
- Blitz!
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Actually... (PANTING)
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it's pretty unlikely
the founding fathers
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were thinking about your
individual right to own a gun.
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That interpretation of
the Second Amendment
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is actually quite recent.
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- (BALL SQUEAKS)
- Yay, homerun!
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Nope, we're going to watch the parade.
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There's compelling evidence that
the founding fathers' attitude
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towards guns was less like this...
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Citizens have a God-given
right to pack all the heat
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- they can handle.
- Hut-hut, sign!
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...and more like this.
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- (BLOWING WHISTLE)
- Okay, let's see.
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We have freedom of speech,
freedom of religion.
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Oh, and we have to guarantee
the states' rights
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to maintain a militia.
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00:07:56,143 --> 00:07:58,610
Oh, you mean how at this
point in history, 1789,
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every state has its own
part-time conscripted army?
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00:08:01,014 --> 00:08:03,214
Yeah, we're gonna want
to keep those around.
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00:08:03,216 --> 00:08:05,216
The state's right to bear
arms is what protects us
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from federal government overreach!
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00:08:07,420 --> 00:08:10,489
Are you sure that's all
they meant by bear arms?
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Maybe they were talking about
the individual's right
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to defend himself and his home.
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00:08:14,027 --> 00:08:16,895
Well, that's pretty unlikely
because guns at the time
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were completely impractical
for self-defense.
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They were difficult to load quickly,
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and gunpowder was super dangerous.
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I brought my gun just in case.
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No, you idiot!
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(EXPLOSION)
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Historians still disagree
about the founders' intent.
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But a search of all the writings
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of Washington, Adams,
Jefferson, Hamilton,
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00:08:34,447 --> 00:08:36,915
and Franklin for the phrase "bear arms"
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revealed they only used that phrase
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in a military context,
and that's how Americans
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understood the amendment
for a long time.
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For over 200 years, the
U.S. Supreme Court
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declined to rule that
the Second Amendment
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had anything to do with
individual gun rights.
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Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
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I have a constitutional right to...
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(WHISTLE BLOWING)
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Flag on the play!
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The Supreme Court will
not rule on this issue!
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00:09:01,542 --> 00:09:04,343
Oh, come on! Are you blind, ref?!
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Where the (BLEEP) was the NRA
when all this was going down?
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00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,681
Well, they were pretty
different back then.
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00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:11,616
When the National Rifle Association
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00:09:11,618 --> 00:09:13,552
was founded after the Civil War,
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00:09:13,687 --> 00:09:15,420
they weren't heartland warriors.
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00:09:15,422 --> 00:09:18,089
They were genteel cultured aristocrats
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00:09:18,091 --> 00:09:20,692
focused on improving
Yankee marksmanship.
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00:09:20,828 --> 00:09:23,228
Oh, yoo-hoo, boys in blue.
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00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:26,565
You have embarrassed us
in front of the South!
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00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:29,835
You're all in dire need
of shooting lessons!
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00:09:29,837 --> 00:09:32,437
But they didn't believe that
everyone should own a gun.
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00:09:32,439 --> 00:09:34,239
In fact, during the '20s and '30s,
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00:09:34,241 --> 00:09:36,909
the NRA even supported
some gun control measures.
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00:09:42,115 --> 00:09:43,982
Gosh darnit, where's the
NRA that I know and love?
251
00:09:44,117 --> 00:09:47,052
Oh, they didn't show up
until the '60s and '70s.
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00:09:47,188 --> 00:09:49,921
A new faction of NRA members
wanted the organization
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00:09:50,057 --> 00:09:52,123
to be more hardcore about gun rights.
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00:09:52,259 --> 00:09:55,126
So, in 1977, they
overthrew the leadership
255
00:09:55,262 --> 00:09:58,263
in a dramatic coup known as
the Revolt at Cincinnati.
256
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:02,401
You'll have to pry my guns
from my cold, dead hand!
257
00:10:02,536 --> 00:10:05,604
And this new NRA led a
decades-long battle
258
00:10:05,739 --> 00:10:08,473
to change our understanding
of the Second Amendment.
259
00:10:08,475 --> 00:10:10,209
They sponsored law reviews,
260
00:10:10,343 --> 00:10:12,343
they gained allies in
the legal community,
261
00:10:12,345 --> 00:10:14,413
and they helped seat gun-friendly judges
262
00:10:14,548 --> 00:10:17,616
all the way up to the Supreme Court.
263
00:10:17,751 --> 00:10:20,752
Slowly, but surely, public
opinion began to change.
264
00:10:20,888 --> 00:10:24,089
And in the 2008 case, DC versus Heller,
265
00:10:24,091 --> 00:10:26,225
they finally got what they wanted.
266
00:10:26,359 --> 00:10:27,358
(BLOWING WHISTLE)
267
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,493
For the first time in history,
268
00:10:28,495 --> 00:10:30,495
the court will rule on this issue.
269
00:10:30,497 --> 00:10:33,498
The Second Amendment in fact
does defend an individual right
270
00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:35,366
- to bear arms.
- (AIR HORN BLOWING)
271
00:10:35,502 --> 00:10:37,903
What?! They can't just change
what the Constitution means.
272
00:10:38,038 --> 00:10:39,704
(MAN) Actually, they can.
273
00:10:39,706 --> 00:10:41,172
And it was all perfectly legal.
274
00:10:41,308 --> 00:10:44,375
This is Adam Winkler, a
law professor at UCLA
275
00:10:44,377 --> 00:10:45,977
whose scholarship has been cited
276
00:10:46,113 --> 00:10:48,379
in landmark Supreme Court cases.
277
00:10:48,381 --> 00:10:50,582
Hope you guys don't
mind I invited a guest.
278
00:10:50,717 --> 00:10:52,718
Adam, I thought you had a plus-one.
279
00:10:52,853 --> 00:10:56,588
Anyway, the NRA's campaign
changed our society
280
00:10:56,590 --> 00:10:58,189
and our legal culture's understanding
281
00:10:58,191 --> 00:11:00,125
of what the Second Amendment means.
282
00:11:00,127 --> 00:11:02,327
Agree or not, the NRA's campaign
283
00:11:02,329 --> 00:11:04,529
was totally legal, and it worked.
284
00:11:04,665 --> 00:11:06,531
Well, okay! That means that now,
285
00:11:06,667 --> 00:11:09,668
gun control is unconstitutional
and un-American.
286
00:11:09,803 --> 00:11:11,202
No, no, no.
287
00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:14,139
Gun control is as much a part
of our history as gun rights.
288
00:11:14,141 --> 00:11:15,874
And in fact, the founding fathers
289
00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:17,809
had gun control laws.
290
00:11:17,811 --> 00:11:19,811
And in the Heller ruling,
conservative justice
291
00:11:19,813 --> 00:11:21,880
Antonin Scalia made crystal clear
292
00:11:22,015 --> 00:11:23,348
that most forms of gun control
293
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:25,550
remain constitutionally permissible.
294
00:11:25,686 --> 00:11:27,819
So, Dan, yes, the NRA won.
295
00:11:27,955 --> 00:11:30,021
But that doesn't mean that
all forms of gun control
296
00:11:30,157 --> 00:11:31,623
are unconstitutional.
297
00:11:31,758 --> 00:11:34,093
And it doesn't mean
that we can use myths
298
00:11:34,227 --> 00:11:35,694
about the founding fathers' intentions
299
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:37,162
to shout down people
300
00:11:37,298 --> 00:11:39,431
who are working to stop gun violence.
301
00:11:39,566 --> 00:11:40,966
Well, if you and your professor friend
302
00:11:40,968 --> 00:11:42,501
are all done with your speeches,
303
00:11:42,636 --> 00:11:43,969
I'd like to go eat.
304
00:11:44,105 --> 00:11:46,571
You know, Dan, if you
believe in gun rights,
305
00:11:46,573 --> 00:11:48,107
then you should know that not everybody
306
00:11:48,241 --> 00:11:50,575
in this country gets to exercise them.
307
00:11:50,711 --> 00:11:53,512
- Where I grew up...
- Eva, please, enough.
308
00:11:53,647 --> 00:11:55,981
I heard the pointy-haired man already.
309
00:11:55,983 --> 00:11:57,582
Dad! Listen to her!
310
00:11:57,718 --> 00:11:59,118
Thanks to your rights,
we can't even feel safe
311
00:11:59,252 --> 00:12:00,385
in our own neighborhood.
312
00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:02,788
No, I'm not just talking
about our neighborhood.
313
00:12:02,923 --> 00:12:04,055
Well, any neighborhood.
314
00:12:04,191 --> 00:12:05,657
Gun control keeps everyone safe.
315
00:12:05,792 --> 00:12:08,327
- You don't even...
- No, actually...
316
00:12:08,462 --> 00:12:11,863
historically, I mean...
317
00:12:11,865 --> 00:12:13,732
You know what, I think I've had enough
318
00:12:13,867 --> 00:12:15,600
Donnerman family tradition for one day.
319
00:12:15,736 --> 00:12:18,537
I'm gonna hit the
pre-Black Friday sales.
320
00:12:20,874 --> 00:12:22,273
I think I might know what
321
00:12:22,409 --> 00:12:25,076
she was trying to tell you guys.
322
00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:27,346
I think it's a little awkward
that I'm still here.
323
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:28,413
I'm gonna go.
324
00:12:28,549 --> 00:12:30,349
(WHISTLING)
325
00:12:33,487 --> 00:12:35,687
Why did Eva get all
upset and just leave?
326
00:12:35,689 --> 00:12:38,423
Gun control keeps everyone safe.
327
00:12:38,425 --> 00:12:41,560
Or maybe she understands
that we can't protect people
328
00:12:41,695 --> 00:12:44,295
from bad guys with guns if we don't have
329
00:12:44,297 --> 00:12:46,832
- good guys with guns.
- (SCOFFS)
330
00:12:46,834 --> 00:12:48,834
- (BEEP)
- (ADAM ON PA) Uh, my guess is she's upset
331
00:12:48,969 --> 00:12:51,036
because gun control
conversations in America
332
00:12:51,172 --> 00:12:53,705
are always centered around what
makes white people feel safe.
333
00:12:53,841 --> 00:12:55,106
(FEEDBACK)
334
00:12:55,242 --> 00:12:56,441
All too often, black people
335
00:12:56,577 --> 00:12:58,710
are left completely out
of the conversation.
336
00:12:58,846 --> 00:13:00,311
I'm leaving black people out?
337
00:13:00,447 --> 00:13:02,447
My wife is black...
338
00:13:02,583 --> 00:13:04,716
Oh, no, I just became
one of those people.
339
00:13:04,718 --> 00:13:05,717
Afraid so.
340
00:13:05,719 --> 00:13:07,318
And I'm afraid that historically,
341
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,189
gun control has been used
to control and criminalize
342
00:13:10,323 --> 00:13:11,390
- people of color.
- (CASH REGISTER CHA-CHING)
343
00:13:11,525 --> 00:13:13,392
(ADAM) In the early
years of our country,
344
00:13:13,527 --> 00:13:15,260
many colonies and states had laws
345
00:13:15,396 --> 00:13:17,863
barring Native Americans
and free black people
346
00:13:17,865 --> 00:13:19,798
- from buying or owning guns.
- (ALARM SOUNDING)
347
00:13:19,933 --> 00:13:22,667
What? But I have a receipt.
348
00:13:22,669 --> 00:13:24,269
(ADAM) And racist fears of black people
349
00:13:24,405 --> 00:13:27,138
have continued to inform
our gun control laws.
350
00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:29,808
In 1960s California, the Black Panthers
351
00:13:29,943 --> 00:13:31,676
resisted police violence in Oakland
352
00:13:31,678 --> 00:13:34,213
by patrolling the city with guns.
353
00:13:34,347 --> 00:13:36,681
We have a right to
protect our communities
354
00:13:36,683 --> 00:13:39,618
against police officers
abusing their power.
355
00:13:39,753 --> 00:13:41,620
Defending yourself against
a tyrannical government,
356
00:13:41,755 --> 00:13:43,088
I'm all about that.
357
00:13:43,090 --> 00:13:45,356
Well, state lawmakers responded
358
00:13:45,358 --> 00:13:48,560
by passing a bill that
banned open carry.
359
00:13:48,695 --> 00:13:50,896
The bill applied to all Californians
360
00:13:50,898 --> 00:13:53,965
but it was meant to blatantly
target the Black Panthers.
361
00:13:54,101 --> 00:13:56,968
And that bill was signed by
then California governor
362
00:13:57,104 --> 00:13:59,771
and NRA member, Ronald Reagan.
363
00:13:59,773 --> 00:14:04,243
I'm just not comfortable with
certain people carrying guns.
364
00:14:04,377 --> 00:14:07,378
(CHUCKLES) For, uh... reasons.
365
00:14:07,514 --> 00:14:09,180
- Oh...
- Eva.
366
00:14:09,182 --> 00:14:10,549
Oh!
367
00:14:11,785 --> 00:14:14,319
Babe, I'm so sorry.
368
00:14:14,321 --> 00:14:16,922
I had no idea gun control
used to be so racist.
369
00:14:16,924 --> 00:14:18,590
Is that what you told her?
370
00:14:18,592 --> 00:14:20,391
Well, I wasn't done.
371
00:14:20,393 --> 00:14:22,393
So, not my responsibility
to teach white people
372
00:14:22,395 --> 00:14:24,229
they own racist ass history.
373
00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:28,733
All right, white Urkel,
I'll take it from here.
374
00:14:28,735 --> 00:14:29,801
Please do.
375
00:14:29,937 --> 00:14:31,202
And thanks for the compliment.
376
00:14:31,338 --> 00:14:34,539
Sarah, even today a lot
of gun control laws
377
00:14:34,541 --> 00:14:37,208
really end up being about
controlling black people.
378
00:14:37,344 --> 00:14:38,744
In the mid-2000s,
379
00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:41,212
the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, and Firearms
380
00:14:41,214 --> 00:14:43,548
performed 10 years of
stings to combat gun crime.
381
00:14:43,684 --> 00:14:45,684
A full analysis found that
382
00:14:45,819 --> 00:14:47,419
91% of people arrested
383
00:14:47,554 --> 00:14:49,220
were people of color.
384
00:14:49,222 --> 00:14:51,490
And we're not just talking
about the red states.
385
00:14:51,625 --> 00:14:54,493
For years, New York City
had an official policy
386
00:14:54,628 --> 00:14:56,895
to stop black and brown
people on the street
387
00:14:57,030 --> 00:15:00,231
just to see if they might
have guns or drugs.
388
00:15:00,233 --> 00:15:01,900
- Stop!
- (POLICE SIREN WHOOPS)
389
00:15:02,035 --> 00:15:03,234
Sir, you're in a public place
390
00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:05,904
and you look... you know, dangerous.
391
00:15:06,039 --> 00:15:08,239
What? Oh. Sir?
392
00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:11,576
Records show that these stops
almost never found guns.
393
00:15:11,712 --> 00:15:13,444
Between '04 and 2012,
394
00:15:13,446 --> 00:15:16,181
4.4 million people were stopped,
395
00:15:16,317 --> 00:15:18,917
but only 1.5% of them had weapons.
396
00:15:19,052 --> 00:15:21,120
Men in my family have
gotten jaywalking tickets
397
00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:23,322
from the NYPD after they
didn't find anything
398
00:15:23,457 --> 00:15:24,589
in the stop and frisk.
399
00:15:24,725 --> 00:15:26,257
They weren't stopping criminals,
400
00:15:26,393 --> 00:15:27,726
they were just stopping black people.
401
00:15:27,861 --> 00:15:31,462
Eva, I'm sorry. I had no idea.
402
00:15:31,464 --> 00:15:32,798
You've never talked about it.
403
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,200
It's not her responsibility
to talk about it,
404
00:15:35,336 --> 00:15:38,069
it's our responsibility as a country.
405
00:15:38,205 --> 00:15:41,206
This is James Forman, Jr.,
Pulitzer Prize winner
406
00:15:41,208 --> 00:15:43,742
and author of the book
"Locking Up Our Own."
407
00:15:43,877 --> 00:15:46,345
There's a connection between
the overly punitive
408
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,414
gun sentencing laws that
were passed in the 1970s,
409
00:15:49,416 --> 00:15:51,016
1980s, and 1990s
410
00:15:51,018 --> 00:15:54,085
and the current crisis
of mass incarceration.
411
00:15:54,087 --> 00:15:55,420
Instead of national gun control laws
412
00:15:55,556 --> 00:15:58,557
that could stop the flood
of available guns,
413
00:15:58,692 --> 00:16:01,827
we have local laws that
penalize possession.
414
00:16:01,962 --> 00:16:04,963
And those laws are
mostly passed in cities.
415
00:16:05,098 --> 00:16:07,566
So, the result is that
guns are everywhere,
416
00:16:07,701 --> 00:16:09,968
violence is rampant, and the only people
417
00:16:10,103 --> 00:16:12,504
who go to prison for possessing guns
418
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:15,240
are poor people of color
in our nation's cities.
419
00:16:15,376 --> 00:16:18,243
Black people face the highest
rates of deaths by guns.
420
00:16:18,245 --> 00:16:20,645
But instead of protecting the
families and neighborhoods
421
00:16:20,647 --> 00:16:22,247
who face the most gun violence,
422
00:16:22,249 --> 00:16:25,717
our current gun laws just
double down on destroying them.
423
00:16:25,853 --> 00:16:29,388
And that's why we shouldn't
talk about new gun penalties
424
00:16:29,523 --> 00:16:30,856
without first talking about
425
00:16:30,991 --> 00:16:34,059
how we transform our
criminal legal system.
426
00:16:34,195 --> 00:16:37,328
All right, Adam, I got to get
to my Thanksgiving dinner.
427
00:16:37,330 --> 00:16:38,329
Well, I think we all learned
428
00:16:38,465 --> 00:16:41,000
a valuable lesson about gun control.
429
00:16:41,134 --> 00:16:42,333
No, Dan.
430
00:16:42,335 --> 00:16:44,736
There's something you
need to realize too.
431
00:16:44,738 --> 00:16:47,506
Gun rights don't protect
black people either.
432
00:16:48,742 --> 00:16:50,009
Take the stand your ground law
433
00:16:50,143 --> 00:16:53,078
the NRA pushed legislators
to pass in Florida.
434
00:16:53,214 --> 00:16:56,215
It says use of deadly force is
justified to defend yourself
435
00:16:56,349 --> 00:16:59,150
in your home or car even
if you can run away.
436
00:16:59,152 --> 00:17:02,487
But in practice, not
everyone gets to use it.
437
00:17:02,623 --> 00:17:04,689
Marissa Alexander was sentenced
438
00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:06,157
to 20 years in prison
439
00:17:06,159 --> 00:17:07,426
just for firing a warning shot
440
00:17:07,561 --> 00:17:09,360
to defend herself against
her abusive husband.
441
00:17:09,496 --> 00:17:11,362
Stand your ground didn't help her.
442
00:17:11,498 --> 00:17:13,364
Or look at what happened
to Philando Castile.
443
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:15,166
During a routine traffic pullover,
444
00:17:15,168 --> 00:17:17,969
he informed the police officer
that he had his gun on him.
445
00:17:17,971 --> 00:17:20,772
And the cop shot and killed him
in front of his girlfriend
446
00:17:20,774 --> 00:17:22,908
and her four-year-old daughter.
447
00:17:22,910 --> 00:17:24,375
But I drive with my weapon every day.
448
00:17:24,511 --> 00:17:25,711
That's not against the law.
449
00:17:25,846 --> 00:17:28,113
Okay, so imagine I'm a police officer
450
00:17:28,249 --> 00:17:31,450
pulling you over and
you're Philando Castile.
451
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,586
Do you have your license and insurance?
452
00:17:34,588 --> 00:17:36,721
Yes, officer, I do have to tell you
453
00:17:36,723 --> 00:17:38,657
I do have a firearm on me.
454
00:17:38,792 --> 00:17:40,325
Okay, don't reach for it then.
455
00:17:40,461 --> 00:17:42,594
- I'm... I'm...
- Don't pull it out.
456
00:17:42,596 --> 00:17:44,529
- I'm not pulling it out.
- He's not pulling it out.
457
00:17:44,531 --> 00:17:45,564
- Don't pull it out.
- Bang!
458
00:17:47,801 --> 00:17:51,536
That is the exact moment
Philando Castile was shot.
459
00:17:51,672 --> 00:17:53,472
He did everything that
responsible gun owners
460
00:17:53,607 --> 00:17:54,940
are supposed to do.
461
00:17:55,075 --> 00:17:57,609
And the NRA didn't come to his defense.
462
00:17:57,611 --> 00:18:00,011
For all their talk about
protecting gun rights,
463
00:18:00,147 --> 00:18:02,614
they sure are quiet when
black people are gunned down
464
00:18:02,749 --> 00:18:04,283
for exercising them.
465
00:18:04,417 --> 00:18:07,018
So, Dan, I'm frustrated
466
00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:10,221
because black people are in jail or dead
467
00:18:10,357 --> 00:18:13,425
for exercising gun rights
that you enjoy so freely.
468
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,226
And, Sarah, I'm hurt
469
00:18:15,362 --> 00:18:16,895
because, as my partner,
470
00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:18,497
you don't see that the gun control
471
00:18:18,632 --> 00:18:20,499
you have the privilege to fight for
472
00:18:20,634 --> 00:18:22,501
ignores the systemic persecution
473
00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:26,038
that I live in fear of every single day.
474
00:18:28,041 --> 00:18:30,109
I'm gonna head back.
475
00:18:30,243 --> 00:18:31,710
Wait.
476
00:18:31,845 --> 00:18:33,278
Do you want a ride?
477
00:18:39,686 --> 00:18:42,488
478
00:18:44,291 --> 00:18:45,757
Hey.
479
00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:47,025
Hey.
480
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,560
Since you guys didn't let us eat dinner,
481
00:18:48,695 --> 00:18:52,497
Doris said we should just
skip straight to pie.
482
00:18:52,499 --> 00:18:55,166
Eva, I am so sorry.
483
00:18:55,302 --> 00:18:57,168
My dad is too.
484
00:18:57,170 --> 00:18:58,570
We didn't mean to upset you.
485
00:18:58,705 --> 00:19:01,172
I appreciate that, but I
don't want want you guys
486
00:19:01,308 --> 00:19:03,708
to just be sorry I was upset.
487
00:19:03,710 --> 00:19:05,376
I want you to remember
that for people that
488
00:19:05,378 --> 00:19:07,712
haven't had your experience
in this country,
489
00:19:07,714 --> 00:19:11,783
that there is way more at
stake in this gun debate.
490
00:19:11,785 --> 00:19:13,118
We need a voice.
491
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:14,586
And you need to listen.
492
00:19:14,721 --> 00:19:16,455
And, if I may add,
493
00:19:16,590 --> 00:19:18,724
if America is going
to have the inclusive
494
00:19:18,859 --> 00:19:20,459
and effective conversation about guns
495
00:19:20,594 --> 00:19:22,527
that we so desperately need,
496
00:19:22,529 --> 00:19:24,329
we all need to admit that
497
00:19:24,331 --> 00:19:27,198
none of us knows enough yet
to have all the answers.
498
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,734
So we need to be allowed
to do more research.
499
00:19:29,736 --> 00:19:30,735
That's right, Adam.
500
00:19:30,737 --> 00:19:33,004
This is Doctor Garen Wintemute.
501
00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:34,873
He is the director of
the Violence Prevention
502
00:19:35,008 --> 00:19:37,743
Research Program at UC Davis.
503
00:19:37,878 --> 00:19:40,679
We spend so much energy
and political will
504
00:19:40,814 --> 00:19:42,013
fighting over whether or not
505
00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:44,149
America should have all these guns
506
00:19:44,151 --> 00:19:46,418
When the fact is: we do have them.
507
00:19:46,553 --> 00:19:48,487
It's our reality.
508
00:19:48,622 --> 00:19:50,956
That being the case, we
need to start researching
509
00:19:50,958 --> 00:19:53,825
firearm violence as a
public health problem.
510
00:19:53,827 --> 00:19:56,095
But politics is getting
in the way of funding
511
00:19:56,229 --> 00:19:58,497
that kind of research
on the national level
512
00:19:58,632 --> 00:20:00,432
where it could really make a difference.
513
00:20:00,567 --> 00:20:04,436
The NRA sees any form of
research on guns as a threat,
514
00:20:04,571 --> 00:20:06,305
even when it's information
that gun owners
515
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,973
could really benefit from knowing.
516
00:20:08,109 --> 00:20:10,575
We know, in general, that
the more guns there are,
517
00:20:10,711 --> 00:20:13,312
the more people get
hurt from gun violence.
518
00:20:13,446 --> 00:20:14,980
But we don't know nearly enough
519
00:20:14,982 --> 00:20:17,182
about the risk factors
for that violence,
520
00:20:17,318 --> 00:20:19,651
or the consequences for the victims,
521
00:20:19,786 --> 00:20:23,054
or even the effectiveness
of specific policies,
522
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:25,657
including policies that
most Americans agree on
523
00:20:25,793 --> 00:20:26,925
like background checks.
524
00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:30,595
Look, ultimately, we all
want the same thing:
525
00:20:30,597 --> 00:20:31,930
to feel safe.
526
00:20:32,065 --> 00:20:34,399
So, instead of shouting each other down,
527
00:20:34,401 --> 00:20:37,536
we need to have productive,
rational conversations
528
00:20:37,671 --> 00:20:39,204
based on facts.
529
00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:41,740
Can't we all at least agree on that?
530
00:20:41,875 --> 00:20:43,608
I can.
531
00:20:43,744 --> 00:20:45,677
Yeah, me too.
532
00:20:45,813 --> 00:20:49,280
And we shouldn't stop
talking and listening
533
00:20:49,282 --> 00:20:51,216
as a country, but...
534
00:20:51,218 --> 00:20:53,084
we can at least stop
fighting about this tonight.
535
00:20:53,220 --> 00:20:54,953
Huh, when you think about it,
536
00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:56,888
I didn't ruin Thanksgiving at all.
537
00:20:56,890 --> 00:20:58,157
You guys kinda did.
538
00:20:58,291 --> 00:21:02,093
- (WINTEMUTE)
- Geez, man. Learn how to read a room.
539
00:21:02,229 --> 00:21:04,229
(WHISTLING)
540
00:21:04,231 --> 00:21:05,296
This might jiggle.
541
00:21:05,432 --> 00:21:06,431
(ADAM) It's all fine.
542
00:21:06,567 --> 00:21:07,632
And we have a nice
breeze so it's all good.
543
00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:08,633
Oh, my gosh.
544
00:21:08,635 --> 00:21:10,635
(MAN MUTTERING)
545
00:21:10,637 --> 00:21:12,237
Well, Adam, thank you so
much for being on the show.
546
00:21:12,239 --> 00:21:13,438
It was great having you.
547
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,906
- Thanks so much for having me.
- How did you start
548
00:21:15,042 --> 00:21:16,975
getting into this topic
in the first place?
549
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:19,778
Well, I'm a constitutional
law professor at UCLA.
550
00:21:19,913 --> 00:21:21,312
And the Second Amendment was an area
551
00:21:21,448 --> 00:21:23,248
that seemed very ambiguous.
What did that mean?
552
00:21:23,384 --> 00:21:26,117
And when I researched it,
I found that the story
553
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,253
of guns in America was
much more complicated
554
00:21:28,255 --> 00:21:31,122
than the story the NRA has
been selling us for so long.
555
00:21:31,258 --> 00:21:33,192
That's so interesting
that there's this line
556
00:21:33,326 --> 00:21:35,594
in our founding document
557
00:21:35,729 --> 00:21:37,262
that we can't even decide
558
00:21:37,398 --> 00:21:39,464
what, exactly, was meant by it.
559
00:21:39,466 --> 00:21:40,732
That's so strange.
560
00:21:40,868 --> 00:21:43,268
Well, the Second Amendment
has all these commas in it,
561
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:45,804
and it doesn't really make a
lot of sense as a sentence.
562
00:21:45,939 --> 00:21:46,938
- Right.
- But yet, it does capture
563
00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:49,875
a principle, a principle
that we, the people,
564
00:21:49,877 --> 00:21:51,743
have a right of self-defense.
565
00:21:51,745 --> 00:21:53,412
Can you walk me through
where the commas are?
566
00:21:53,547 --> 00:21:54,813
Sure. The Second Amendment says...
567
00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:58,250
Comma.
568
00:22:04,958 --> 00:22:06,758
And it's almost as if James Madison,
569
00:22:06,894 --> 00:22:08,493
the author of this provision,
had just discovered
570
00:22:08,629 --> 00:22:10,229
this wonderful new thing, the comma.
571
00:22:10,363 --> 00:22:11,696
- (LAUGHING)
- And wanted to put it in there
572
00:22:11,698 --> 00:22:14,099
as many times as possible.
Which one of those nouns
573
00:22:14,235 --> 00:22:15,434
goes with which of those verbs?
574
00:22:15,569 --> 00:22:17,969
It's ambiguous, you can't
really tell which is which.
575
00:22:18,105 --> 00:22:20,505
And the right to bear arms
that the founders imagined
576
00:22:20,641 --> 00:22:23,042
was very different from the
right to bear arms today.
577
00:22:23,176 --> 00:22:26,177
Firearms were very different
in terms of their usefulness
578
00:22:26,179 --> 00:22:27,512
- against crime.
- Right.
579
00:22:27,648 --> 00:22:28,980
And they thought of the Second Amendment
580
00:22:29,116 --> 00:22:30,849
primarily in terms of a militia,
581
00:22:30,984 --> 00:22:33,252
but that doesn't mean it's
not an individual right.
582
00:22:33,386 --> 00:22:35,053
All of the provisions
of the Bill of Rights
583
00:22:35,188 --> 00:22:37,322
guarantee individuals their rights.
584
00:22:37,324 --> 00:22:39,190
All right, they were mostly
thinking about militias,
585
00:22:39,192 --> 00:22:40,592
but it's also an individual right.
586
00:22:40,727 --> 00:22:42,461
So did they believe in
an individual right
587
00:22:42,596 --> 00:22:44,529
to a militia? I don't quite follow.
588
00:22:44,531 --> 00:22:45,997
No, they believed in an individual right
589
00:22:45,999 --> 00:22:48,133
to keep and bear arms,
and the primary reason
590
00:22:48,269 --> 00:22:49,200
why you needed that right
591
00:22:49,336 --> 00:22:51,202
is so you could serve
in a state militia.
592
00:22:51,204 --> 00:22:52,471
- Oh.
- The founding fathers
593
00:22:52,606 --> 00:22:53,738
didn't have a standing army.
594
00:22:53,740 --> 00:22:55,274
They thought that was
a threat to liberty.
595
00:22:55,408 --> 00:22:57,075
So they relied on citizens' militias
596
00:22:57,210 --> 00:22:59,410
made up of minutemen who would go home,
597
00:22:59,412 --> 00:23:00,812
grab their guns, and be ready to fight
598
00:23:00,948 --> 00:23:03,482
in an instant for national defense.
599
00:23:03,617 --> 00:23:05,216
So, you have to be able to own a gun
600
00:23:05,218 --> 00:23:06,818
so you can go join up with the militia
601
00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:08,419
whenever they ring the militia bell.
602
00:23:08,421 --> 00:23:10,355
Yeah, and the founders were concerned
603
00:23:10,491 --> 00:23:11,623
that the federal government
604
00:23:11,625 --> 00:23:13,558
would try to disarm the state militias.
605
00:23:13,694 --> 00:23:15,426
So, I can remember a time...
606
00:23:15,428 --> 00:23:17,429
Like, when I was growing up in the '90s,
607
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:19,631
there was a debate about
the Second Amendment.
608
00:23:19,633 --> 00:23:20,699
Some people said,
609
00:23:20,834 --> 00:23:22,634
Oh, it guarantees an individual right,
610
00:23:22,636 --> 00:23:24,436
and then it felt like
the majority of people
611
00:23:24,571 --> 00:23:26,838
were saying, No, no, no,
this is about militias.
612
00:23:26,974 --> 00:23:28,573
Feels like things have shifted
613
00:23:28,575 --> 00:23:30,041
even in the time I've been alive,
614
00:23:30,043 --> 00:23:31,977
and I'm a relatively young guy.
615
00:23:32,113 --> 00:23:33,578
Yeah, I think that part of the way
616
00:23:33,714 --> 00:23:35,647
the Constitution works is that we have
617
00:23:35,649 --> 00:23:37,316
advocacy groups and social movements
618
00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:39,384
that push for a new understanding
619
00:23:39,386 --> 00:23:40,919
of even an ancient right.
620
00:23:41,054 --> 00:23:43,254
The NRA's leadership in the early 1970s
621
00:23:43,390 --> 00:23:44,856
was pretty moderate and favored
622
00:23:44,858 --> 00:23:46,391
a variety of gun control laws.
623
00:23:46,527 --> 00:23:49,060
The NRA, after 1977, really committed
624
00:23:49,196 --> 00:23:51,863
to hard-hitting political advocacy.
625
00:23:51,999 --> 00:23:53,799
It wanted to fight
against gun control laws
626
00:23:53,934 --> 00:23:55,600
and push for a broader,
627
00:23:55,602 --> 00:23:57,936
more expansive understanding
of the Second Amendment.
628
00:23:58,071 --> 00:23:59,671
It was a time of rising crime rates,
629
00:23:59,673 --> 00:24:00,872
and people really felt the need
630
00:24:00,874 --> 00:24:03,074
to have a firearm for
personal protection.
631
00:24:03,076 --> 00:24:05,144
So, if you would speak to folks at home
632
00:24:05,278 --> 00:24:07,078
who are gun control advocates,
633
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,815
how would you suggest they go about
634
00:24:09,950 --> 00:24:11,683
pressing their case in America?
635
00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:13,752
I think it should be
empowering to all Americans,
636
00:24:13,887 --> 00:24:15,154
including gun control advocates,
637
00:24:15,288 --> 00:24:16,955
that if you fight hard enough,
638
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:18,623
and if you make
persuasive enough claims,
639
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:20,291
you can change the law,
640
00:24:20,427 --> 00:24:22,361
that there's nothing inexorable about
641
00:24:22,496 --> 00:24:23,428
how the Supreme Court is going to read
642
00:24:23,564 --> 00:24:24,896
- the Constitution.
- Right.
643
00:24:24,898 --> 00:24:26,631
And even today, the
Supreme Court has said
644
00:24:26,767 --> 00:24:28,433
there's plenty of room for gun control
645
00:24:28,569 --> 00:24:29,701
under the Constitution.
646
00:24:29,703 --> 00:24:30,836
I very much appreciate you coming here
647
00:24:30,838 --> 00:24:32,604
- to talk to us about it.
- It's been my pleasure.
648
00:24:32,614 --> 00:24:34,614
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649
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