Original subtitles

[intriguing music]

[auctioneer] We're on lot 26. This is an 8.0 Batmanone.

This is the first book to have its own unique label.

I'm telling you, this book is the one you want in your collection, right?

Let's go to $800.

I'm at 775--

-[woman] $800. -[auctioneer] 8--

-[woman] 825. -[auctioneer] 825.

-Let's go $850,000. -[woman] 850.

-850-- -[woman] 875.

875. I have that. How about $900,000?

[text alert chiming]

I'm at 900. Do I hear $925,000?

It was a Batmanone graded at an 8.0.

Sold for $1.1 million.

[Darren] I felt guilty

knowing that I just sold a million-dollar comic book.

I felt guilty about not being happy about it.

I felt like that was a stupid thing to do.

That was very dumb.

And then the news articles coming out,

the front page, I was, um, horrified.

And then theUSA Today, it was just like, "Oh, my God. No way."

I just, I just-- I keep going in the spiral

of, uh, beating myself up about it.

Just so upset.

You know, everything triggers me now.

I've had zero ability to process my dad's death.

I've zero ability to put it behind me.

You know, whether somebody's like, "Oh, wow, your dad did a great thing,"

I just wanna just explode.

It's so not the case.

[newscaster] Still ahead on theCBS Weekend News.

[male reporter 1] Over a million items in total.

First appearance of, uh, Iron Man.

[male reporter 1] Now, what used to bring the family shame

is something that now brings great pride

for Darren and his family.

I just love that story though. You know, it took, you know,

until after his death, unfortunately, the father,

but the appreciation and kind of the poetic nature

of they finally get what it was all about.

And the fact that they thought it was a problem,

-but it really turned out to be something so beautiful... -Yeah.

-...and lucrative. -[muted]

[Darren] I-- I'm so pissed how I answered that CBS interview.

Uh, so mad.

-[Adam] Would-- -[Darren] Perfect-- Well, when they, when they were like,

"Well, what would you say to your dad, you know, if he was here?"

[Darren on interview] If I could talk to my dad today, um...

[chuckles] I guess I'd say, "Dad, you did it."

You know, I mean, all of that pain

and, and struggle and, and investment,

um, you did something really great, man.

And, uh, I just wish you were here to witness this with us.

[soft suspenseful music]

I don't feel like I'm telling the right story,

you know, at all.

It's difficult to be fully authentic

and just to, to not say what I think maybe should be said

instead of, instead of what I really wanna say.

What were you holding back on, not being honest on due to,

you know, fear of how you'll be, you know, perceived?

My father does not deserve respect

for amassing this collection. Period.

When you have a mother that thought she was depressed for decades

because of treatment by my father.

When you have a brother with s-- some conditions that are sensitive.

You know, he lived in that house.

He felt trapped. He felt like a slave.

My father, you know, predatored on my brother's weaknesses.

You know, so I think one of the things that really upsets me quite a bit

is the people that are of the misunderstanding

that we seem to have some redemption

or some pride or appreciation for what my father did

now that his collection is worth some millions of dollars.

[suspenseful music]

I mean, I watched this little interview.

The guy was like, "Oh, I didn't really like my dad.

Uh, my parents got divorced because of it."

And now that the guy is dead,

they're like, "Oh, my gosh, he was so great,"

because they're sitting on probably, like, $10, $15 million.

Does it rub you the wrong way? It rubs me the wrong way.

[Darren] So these people that wanna say, "Oh, well, you know,

he's disrespecting his father, you know, now that he's dead,

even with this amazing collection."

F*** the collection.

It changes nothing about how he treated us and them.

And I think it's super important.

I have many millions of dollars without comic books,

on my own since my twenties,

and, um, I don't talk about it.

And this film makes me do that. It makes me very angry.

And when I see my mother being pulled into conversations

when they have no clue on her stance.

My mother divorced my father and asked that the comics

and the collectibles not be included in the settlement.

She took the bare minimum she needed.

I'm spellbound that people are, um, so dramatic

about their, their, their assumptions

or their comments or whatever,

and the level of personal insult.

[music intensifies, stops]

[birds chirping]

[Tony] The comments were just mortifying.

Like, I couldn't believe what people were saying about Darren

and his family and everything else.

So people get jealous. They just throw stuff out.

Plus they don't know the whole story.

I hope Darren do everything in the beginning.

We went through all the comics, we set up all the shop.

After that, it's just-- life got busy,

and I kind of just laid off a little bit,

and I didn't know how much I wanted to be involved in the documentary.

And to be honest, after reading some of the comments

people have written about his mother on the internet

after these little blurbs are coming out,

I'm kind of glad that I've stayed out of it a little bit.

[pensive music]

I'd probably sell everything, take the money,

and nobody would ever see me again.

I'd probably move in the middle of nowhere and just live in the woods.

But that's just me. Some people wanna hold on to him forever...

...but I wouldn't wanna pass that whole thing on to my kids

so they have to do the same thing that I just went through.

[Celeste] It's hard to get through when he's in so much pain.

It's hard to get through.

Even though they're wackos, you know.

On top of it, being reminded of his father all the time,

it's just too much, you know.

It just gets to be too much.

[Darren] I want him to be gone.

And I want to not have,

you know, these different things come up. I don't wanna look at pictures.

I don't want to constantly be answering questions about him.

[Adam] You don't still get angry about Dale in your life?

[Celeste] No. Only from the standpoint of seeing what it did to my kids.

Then I get angry.

Because I, I realize that both of them--

No. He-- No. I've, I've gotten past him,

but I know that Darren and Adam haven't,

and that angers me.

That's what angers me. Their pain.

Not-- not Dale anymore. No.

No, you don't let him take space in my brain, you know.

[Kevin] All you can do is work on yourself and learn.

It's not about them. It's about you.

At the end of the day, you're going to bed with your decisions

and the people who are complaining to you,

you're giving them so much real estate in your head.

We, we say that in my family all the time. We're like,

"Don't, don't let them live up there for free.

You know, set them out because they're not thinking about it."

-[soft music] -Fortunately, my knees are small.

-Australia. -[Adam] And yeah, in Superman one, he was saying that

his father taught him real estate was the--

-Yes. -[Adam] The key to something.

Heck, you know what? So...

-What's more-- [chuckles] -...who do you blame?

[Adam] Remember that? Who do we blame?

And we're obviously not in high school anymore

and can choose the stories we give meaning to

and who we allow in our heads.

So who do we blame?

Do we blame the father

or the rippling effects of that father?

Or maybe we blame the media

and the crazy internet YouTube trolls.

We could turn that blame back on ourselves

or on this documentary film.

[Darren] If I could go back, I would not have done this film.

I still, all the time, every single day, doubt

that I should even still continue forward.

The only reason I am is because I don't want to shy away

just because there is some discomfort with my personal exposure

and with, um, haters, trolls and other negative figures.

So I don't want them to win.

And I feel a responsibility, you know, to the people,

my friends and family, the crew of the film,

everyone involved who put their time and resources

for this to be represented correctly.

Yeah, for us to be properly understood.

So that's why I continue.

Okay. But the answer truly is that I would not--

if I had a time machine to go back in time,

I would not have done this film again.

[melancholic music]

I, I just-- I constantly look at myself and say,

"Well, why do I have to do it?" You know what I mean?

Like, "Why is it my responsibility?"

[Adam] That to me sounds like many a superhero

feeling the weight of responsibility

and this "Why me?

Why was I given the powers or this situation?"

But what Darren might not realize

is how powerful and even heroic

is this real calling to be honest, to be vulnerable

and ultimately to let us into the battlefield of authenticity

versus hiding behind a mask.

[rock music]

♪ Love ♪

[singer yells]

♪ Welcome to the battlefield I hope you brought a shield ♪

♪ You better buckle up we're about to tear it up ♪

♪ Let's walk fast or break it up and tear it up ♪

♪ Whoa! Break it Whoa! Break it, whoa... ♪

[Brian] It's no longer a comic book anymore when it's slabbed.

It's something different.

[singer yelling]

You can't read it. You can't touch it.

All you can really do i-- is show it off and say, "I have this."

[Chris] I'd really be tempted. If somebody dropped

a SupermanNo. 1 on me,

I'd get it out and I'd read it, man.

And I'd fold it over and, uh, uh...

I just-- I couldn't help myself.

And I'm that way with my own collection, with the toys.

It's a weird tension that you have in this story

between the object and its function.

Its function was to be read,

but now it has this whole other function.

And the last thing in the world you wanna do is read it.

That would be destroying it just by touching it.

[Brian] Darren knew that I was looking for a Silver Surfer,

so he gave me the same book in an 8.0.

And, like, I, I said to him,

I'm like, "You know what I'm gonna do with that?"

He's like, "Oh, yeah, do it." Yeah, sort of prove the point

that, uh... I don't know what point it is,

but I don't give a shit about the grade, honestly.

I just want the book so I can open this bad boy

and send him home with his brothers and sisters.

Means putting them right in there.

He wants to exist next to his other books

in just normal bags and boards in a dark box.

Be there, be loved, I don't know.

He doesn't look comfortable in this, right?

Like, you wanna be like-- He's like Han Solo in carbonite.

That's no good. He wants to be free.

I wouldn't wanna say that people that are into graded books

aren't purists 'cause they can be, you know,

but I'm not. Yeah, it's not for me.

I understand that some people want their investment protected

and they wanna know what it is, and I get it, and I'm fine with it.

But me personally, no.

Book is free.

I'm a raw dog.

I'm so raw, you need to store me in a refrigerator.

I'm so raw, I'm uncookable.

[Chris] There's a strange split

in the true nature of these things.

I'd be really thrilled if somebody bought the book

for a million and a half or whatever

and, and then opened it and read it, you know.

It's like the bottles of wine that people get that, uh--

You know, it's been under the sea for 200 years,

and, uh, "We're gonna drink it tonight," you know.

Uh, that's, uh, to me, the ultimate fate of these things.

[shatters]

♪ Mask off, blast off ♪

[echoing] ♪ Mask off, blast off ♪

[microphone feedback]

[Darren] We have a lot of people, man, and it's been really pissing me off,

that are misunderstanding the story.

-Have you seen some of the comments lately on YouTube? -Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Why do you care? If they're not gonna buy it--

If they're not gonna buy a book, why do you care?

Josh had just very simply said in that conversation,

he goes, "Darren, those people that are saying that,

would you even want them buying one of the books from the collection?"

And it was just so overwhelmingly simple, uh, and profound.

Like I say, it was just like a light bulb went off to me.

I'm like... "No.

I wouldn't want one of those people owning these books."

Part of what we're trying to do is get them into hands of people

that appreciate and identify,

or just are astounded with the conditions or otherwise.

It instantly just was a light bulb of a little epiphany of like,

"Why is this even bothering me?

Let's focus on the people that are contacting us and saying,

'Hey, I'd love just any book, in any grade, just to be a part of this'."

That's humbling. That's amazing.

[soft bass music]

[Adam] So Darren has a renewed drive.

And that's coupled with this growing awareness around the collection

partly due to theBatman sale

and partly the first ever custom label.

So more than ever, Darren seized the need

for more organization of this mammoth collection,

organization that his father never had.

That warrants a little growth

for his ever-expanding comic book family.

I mean, as far as the boxes go, there is no organization.

It can be a golden age book, 80 years old,

and then right next to it, you know, books from 2004.

And then the rest of it is Marvel from the '60s.

Most people, they don't understand when I tell them what I'm doing.

I mean, I, I, I've come up with a lot of different terms for it.

My favorite is "comic book consiglieri"...

...but my wife does not like that one.

[uplifting music]

Now I'm here every day. I look through comics, I sort them, I pick them.

I find ones that are good enough to grade.

I find ones that are good enough to sell raw.

I separate, I bag, I board, I organize.

-[Adam speaks] Wow. -Full time.

Full time. I'm here from 10:00 in the morning

till 5:00 in the afternoon.

And then when I get home, I'm selling comics.

So from, you know, after dinner till eleven o'clock at night,

I'm, you know, looking through Facebook, looking on eBay,

finding books, selling books.

Lots of fun stuff. Comic books, comic books, comic books.

[Darren] He's been great. He's part of the family.

He's a great guy. We have a ton of fun.

-[laughter] -And he's one of the dudes.

They literally couldn't function without me.

No, I'm just-- [laughs]

Before I got here, they had made a run and pulled out the major keys.

The big keys, you know.

But I still find big keys. Every day I find stacks of keys.

I mean, I came out here with five CrowNo. 1s the other day

and five Batman251s the other day.

Not that that makes much sense, but Batman251s,

if we get a 9/8, it's like a $35,000 book.

So, you know, every day my jaw drops at the books that are here,

that I find here. It's unbelievable.

I mean, uh, Darren came in here earlier yelling where I was.

I told him I couldn't keep away from the back.

I found a little honey hole. So, you know,

I-- it's, it's amazing.

[Adam speaking]

-They were there and now they're not. -[Adam Kellert] Yeah.

-[laughs] -End of discussion.

Um, yeah, that's a really good question.

I-- How many did we have? Twentyish?

-I-- Sure. -Yeah, we had, like, twentyish.

[Darren] You know, it's just-- it can get scary sometimes

because it can be very easy

for one or 100 books to go missing.

-[Adam] Mm-hmm. -Um, and, uh, again,

we're not ever really kind of r-- racing to the stolen, you know, scenario.

-There really aren't that many people in here. -[Adam Kellert] Yeah.

Um, but it's more just left hand, right hand

and being in sync with one another and making sure.

-We have no organization here. Uh, like, I don't know how-- -Some organization.

I don't even know how we find books when we do need them.

-I mean, it's memory. It's, it's, it's stupid. -[Darren] Yeah, yeah.

-We go on memory. -I think the missing Spawns are in the boxes to be graded,

which are right over there.

We've got about 35 boxes of 150 books each.

So the 5000 books that I've identified over there, it wasn't overnight.

I mean, this took me three months to identify those.

Just to pull them out of, you know, the trailer, the boxes and boxes.

And then for Brian to have to press, you know.

[Brian] To really do it right and clean them and get them right,

I mean, you're looking at probably three hours a book.

Of your hands on that book for three hours,

you know, to clean it, do all that.

So, yeah, I mean, figure every book is probably a good three hours

-of, of labor. -[Adam Kellert] Plus the 24 hours in press.

-[Brian] Yeah, yeah. -[Adam Kellert] So it's--

[Darren] The 5000 are identified to go to CGC.

-[Adam Kellert] Right. -[Darren] Three hundred are ready to go to CGC.

But, you know, we're not just grading books

that are key titles or things like that.

You know, we're also looking at the census.

You know, there are several books that we have

that may or are or have been already proven

to be the highest grade of that book in existence.

So even if it's a non-key,

if you have the highest grade of a book in the world,

that's still a significant thing and a reason to grade it.

So we have these different, I guess, thresholds

or different tiers

of, of why we decide to grade a book or not.

You know, it could be rarity on the census.

It could be highest condition on the census

or one of, that we think we have a shot at.

Obviously, it could be a key book in general

just because it's a, it's a very well-known title

or a big announcement of a first character.

[lighthearted music]

[Tony] It's definitely changed. It has.

I mean, especially with the publicity of the collection

and everything like that, that is completely changed

because it has to be. It has to be.

With that kind of inventory and everything that's going on,

it, it, it has to be more of a business.

But Darren's included so many people into it.

So it's kind of like a family business, I guess.

-This is our highest in the census. -Of what?

-Peacemaker196. -Oh, nice.

-So now take your photo. -Let me see that.

-Whoo. -Wow.

All right, well, how could it-- Why is it not 9.8?

Quick, look, that was my dad talking.

-Yeah. -Why is it not 9.8?

-[laughs] -[man] Why are you yelling--

Dad, it's the highest in the census ever.

I do miss the hunt. That was the funnest part.

I felt like some sort of explorer.

Like, "What, what is in this box?"

You pull it out and sometimes it's one after another.

-[men] Oh. -[chuckles] Stunned.

[Adam] One could say that the treasure hunt for finding new books

in the collection is slowing down.

But it's replaced by seeing books come back

from CGC with extremely high grades.

9.8s, people.

[Adam] And then to my astonishment, there's a new hunt.

A hunt to actually buy more books.

-[Adam speaks] -You know, um...

...I, I, I get asked that, you know, again,

especially from Renee. [laughs]

"Why the heck are you buying comic books? That's insane."

Um, okay.

Well, just because you have a lot of something

doesn't mean you have, uh, you know, everything.

And I have the means to do it through the collection again. Recycled money.

Um, and again, I, I, I say that because then there's no guilt

of, like, you know, spending outside of that.

It's- I-- I-- it's important to me

to keep that mentally s-- straight of that,

"This is the collection paying for these additional buys."

And, and there's some excitement there. There's some joy.

Uh, and some of these covers are just hysterical.

And I do enjoy them very much. You know, the art part of it.

Nice innuendo cover.

I don't identify with the, the hoarding aspect

of having 150 of something or 200 of them.

That doesn't make any sense to me.

Let's take the best one, or the best ones,

you know, and keep a couple of those, and the rest can go

in a controlled way that's not flooding the market

and then let that fuel the holes that we have in the collection.

I think that it's neat to build a real personal

personal collection, PC.

And when I go to a Con, it, it gives me an additional element

to just walking around and meeting people and so on.

It's like, "No... [stutters] I like that. No, that's cool."

So I get to participate, I guess, you know, in something I'm already in.

It may not make sense, but I will say that,

you know, we enjoy the stuff that we buy.

At least we're not just throwing it in a box.

You know, we're displaying it or looking at it

or talking about it, and it's great.

[upbeat music]

I'm so excited to dive into this.

The one thing I do respect about Darren,

instead of just selling his dad's collection

and kind of taking the money and walking away from the hobby,

he's actually reinvesting it back into the hobby.

He's picking up golden age grails, high-grade books

that he's always wanted as a kid.

So I respect that. I respect that a lot.

Did some pickups today. Made some deals.

So I wanna show some of the stuff we got.

I mean, I guess the point that we're at right now is that

the collection is starting to gain ground in the community.

One of the things that's happened recently

that was very pleasant for me to see was that

we have some dealers and some individuals that have bought raw books,

and they're sending them in to get graded,

and they're getting the new label.

And they're loving it because they want a part of the story,

part of the collection, the label.

So we're focusing on that, you know.

And, um, going with the people that are on board with us.

I see what you're doing with these labels

and the story that you're telling

and the awareness that you're spreading,

and I, I just wanna thank you.

I'm sure this is uncomfortable coming so public about all of this

and, you know, for you to, to share this with the world.

I really do feel like there's also a warning out there to, like,

"Don't forget. This isn't just the legacy of books you leave behind,

-but it's the people too." -[emotional music]

I don't feel my dad was a collector.

I feel like he was a hoarder. You know, what was he doing?

You know, I don't have the answer to that.

Because the thing is that, um, we weren't involved.

But he assembled this collection from a lot of different sources, okay?

Um, a-- again, I don't have the details. I wish I did.

And your father, he, he had...

His, his illness was-- He...

What did you say it was? It was Asperger's?

You know, we, we're not trying to paint a, a negative picture

and, and even call it a disability. It's a, it's a condition, right?

-Sure. -And then here's the thing.

People live with all kinds of conditions, right?

People that have, you know, uh,

suffering eyesight wear glasses, you know.

People that, uh, you know, need help walking

may have, uh, you know, a cane or something else.

But it's recognized. It's realized and it's admitted.

The problem with this story is my father never admitted his condition, ever.

He would never seek any advice on dealing with it.

So that was the challenge. It wasn't the condition.

-I wanna-- I, I-- that's, that's one of the biggest things... -Sure.

...I can make clear is that,

you know, we've met several people along the way,

um, of this journey that, that, that have,

you know, uh, somewhere on the spectrum,

and they realize it and they cope

and they understand how to deal with it and work with it.

It's the problem of not admitting it, right,

not dealing with it, not understanding the impact,

like you said, that it has on others, creating these barriers

and just thinking everyone else is off.

At that point, the denial becomes abusive.

-Mm-hmm. -Y-- yeah, sure, if you wanna nam--

Or I mean, uh, if, if anything, it's, it's--

You're just-- I-- it's...

I mean, uh, the metaphor of superheroes

who live double lives and the dichotomy of this denial.

That's the thing with Superman. It's like Kal-El is who he is.

-Clark is the lie. -[Darren] That's exactly right.

[podcast host] And Clark is the forward-facing

-public image of this person. -[Darren] 100%.

[podcast host] And I'm guessing your father had a, a public image

as well that he had to stay conscious of.

-[Darren] Absolutely. -[podcast host] But the home was being

filled with things. I mean, uh, not just the home,

but the home as a metaphor for the human,

you know, is, is becoming cluttered

-and unmanageable after a point. -[Darren sighing] Yeah.

I have three kids, and that is also something that

I am constantly doing this with, right?

So it's something that I don't ever want them to look back on and be like,

"Well, he wanted to do that more than

go play catch with me or something, you know."

[Darren] He didn't get to experience with a friend.

He didn't get to dig through boxes

and have people be wide-eyed.

He didn't get exposure like this where people appreciate what he did.

On no level,

none, did he benefit.

-That was the tragedy. -That's unfortunate.

-Yeah, it is. -That's unfortunate.

-It's really-- -'Cause as collectors, I mean,

that's like, one, we like to have, you know, nice things.

But then, two, we like to share that with our cohorts.

-You know, like, that's... -Oh, my God.

...that's what this is all about.

-Because-- -It's no fun doing this alone, you know.

Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

I would have traded anything for an actual relationship with this man

rather than a bunch of sterile boxes. I don't need the money.

I think, um, a l-- a lot of people forget

what stories kind of go along with comics.

You know, we've, we've-- A lot of people have stories.

You don't know the stories of the people that had them.

At the age of two, my daughter Gwen

was going to have to start chemotherapy.

[emotional piano music]

She was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease called neurofibromatosis.

And she grew a cancerous tumor on her optic nerves.

She was going blind.

When she was going in for her blood tests,

they let her pick out a toy.

She reaches her hand in

and she pulls out this, uh, this blue and red character,

and she says, "Dad," 'cause she's, she's two. [laughs]

"Dad, what's this?"

And I said, "Gwen, that's Spider-Man."

And she goes, "What's a Spider-Man?"

And I said, "Spider-Man's a hero.

Spider-Man protects people.

And he's actually a kid.

And, you know, he's always trying to do his best.

And no matter what he does, he's looking out for the people

that he loves and the community in which he lives.

He's somebody that, that's always there to help."

And she's like, "Okay." You know, she's two.

[laughs] "Cool."

And we take the toy home. We start chemo.

Uh, she's going every week.

During that two-year process, she gets very allergic to her chemotherapy.

So much so that she has to be basically knocked out

with a lot of Benadryl and things of that nature

to keep from the allergic reactions that you can get.

When they started putting her out,

she would always put the little Spider-Man on her tray table

in her chemo room, 'cause we'd be there all day,

and it would always be kind of, like, looking into the room

or be kind of watching the door.

I never really got it.

It wasn't until that we finished chemo,

and we went on her Make-A-Wish trip,

and we got to go to Universal Studios,

and we see the big, huge Marvel sign

and it says, "Spider-Man autographs over here."

And Gwen just melted.

"Spider-Man's here. We have to go see Spider-Man.

We have to go see Spider-Man."

And Gwen just runs up and gives him a hug.

And, you know, we're, we're, we're listening in,

and she just says, "I wanted to thank you...

...for protecting my mom and my dad

all that time when I was sick

because they were scared.

They were really scared.

And I couldn't take care of them 'cause I had to go to sleep.

And I wanted to...

I, I wanted to thank you for taking care of my parents."

You know, they always say, like, there's always somebody in your life

that makes you wanna be a better person.

Um... [clicks tongue] mine's my daughter.

[lighthearted music]

[Darren] Superman was always a superhero

that was represented strongly in our household.

Even before I had the ability to pick out my own clothes,

I was wearing Superman shirts. So was my brother.

We had Halloween costumes and such.

You know, we were just raised that, you know,

Superman was a very moral and strong character.

[Kevin] I think Superman embodies just this ability

to not only stand for himself but stand for everyone else

and be that port in the storm, be that solid figure.

And I think as a parent, a lot of people are just,

"I just want my kid to be okay.

I just want them to be solid and have,

and have a solid ground to stand on."

And I think he kind of represented that for a long time.

[Chris] I think he really represents the future.

He represents humanity and what they can be.

He's us. But, you know, a thousand years further along

or after, you know, some technological--

or just evolution, uh, that we evolve

and I hope get morally better

at the same time we get all these other skills and abilities that he has.

Looking in this world we live in,

we will have cyborgs and we will have Cyborg Superman

before we have more people who, who treat each other

with the humanity that we're deserved. You know what I mean?

That seems to be-- You talk about attainable.

That seems to be the, the more difficult to reach

is to, to have an open understanding of your neighbor

-than it is to be able to fly. -[whooshes]

[Chris] Okay. They have all these powers. Great.

What are they gonna do with them?

And how are they gonna deal

with these deep human flaws?

[Darren] When I started reading comics more later on,

I, I even got a stronger connection to the character

and even some of the shows like Lois & Clark

or, you know, Superman & Lois,

and just the way he's represented as a human

and trying to be in the world

and not, not just, you know, saving the day all the time.

And it's just fascinating

to, to really learn more about, you know,

him maintaining his secrecy and what that really means

and how hard that is on his loved ones and his family

and how much he restrains himself so often, um, you know, with his powers.

I mean, when you have the temptation of just being omnipotent,

uh, and don't use those powers in a selfish way at all,

I mean, that's just incredible restraint.

Just think of the people in the world that if they had superpowers

for that one minute of road rage,

or that one minute at the supermarket

when someone cuts them off, what they'd do?

And he can do it at any time and he doesn't.

And that's something that I really struggled with on my father,

is that he had a lot of capabilities.

There's a lot of things we could have done together

that would have been really cool,

you know, with our two mindsets and aptitudes.

And, um, it was unrealized. So he didn't apply it.

So, you know, you can't always choose your, your powers or your aptitude,

but you can choose how you employ

and, you know, how you represent them.

Deep down, we're not saying he's super because of all those magic powers.

We're saying he's super 'cause he's making the right decisions

and helping humanity.

[female interviewer speaks]

[laughs] It's exhausting.

[laughter]

♪ Super super Superman ♪

♪ Sumatronomaticexpialidocious Push my buttons ♪

♪ I'mma take off like a speedboat in the ocean 'cause I got a minute ♪

♪ My power goes infinite like the comics ♪

♪ In the cellar trying to find a way to win it ♪

[Adam] What might surprise you is that

in his journey with Superman,

Darren never found out

how his dad got theSuperman No. 1.

-♪ Man ♪ -[Darren] I think he got that Superman

in, like, the late '70s, early '80s,

but I'm not 100% sure.

And my mother either doesn't care enough to remember

or she just wasn't told fully.

But there may only be a few people left on Earth

that know the story of where this stuff came from,

and I'm really excited to find that out.

[Adam] So now he's in a hunt to find the origin

of his father'sSuperman No. 1.

And to do so, find the people that worked

at the comic store where Dale would get the comics.

Did you ever, uh, know of the store Classic Movie & Comic Center?

[Adam] That's CC's comics in Livonia, Michigan.

He used to refer to CC's as his version of Cheers.

-Remember the show Cheers? -Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And, you know, I would assume he meant that

in the way of, like, Norm coming in and, like,

-"Hey." -Checking in with the guys.

Yeah, that was his, that was his boys club.

[announcer] With over 4000 square feet of comic books,

posters, baseball cards and more,

Classic Movie & Comic Center is the place for classic fun.

Open seven days a week, Classic...

[Brian] Man, it was right here, right?

But I remember his counter was on, uh, this side.

-I remember-- -[Darren] Remember it was like a horseshoe?

-Like it went all the way around the store... -Yeah.

-With the center, with comic books. Yeah, yeah. -Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, they must have totally rezoned this place.

-Well, I would assume. -Mm.

I just think it's hilarious this is for lease

-Oh, let's do it. -[laughs]

[announcer] Memorabilia from Star Trek, theStooges

and the current favoriteBatman.

[Darren] Part of the routine on Thursday

when we go as a family, and I'm sure

his own routine as he went by himself,

would be to go to Classic's, go to dinner,

and there was a buffet next to it called Duff's. I'll never forget.

-And, uh, you know, as a kid, I'm like-- -Oh, yeah.

-But the value. The value, right? -Yeah, right.

Well, I didn't care about the value. I cared about getting

-13 servings of ice cream, so. -Yep.

And then we'd go to Toys "R" Us.

-But not for us. -[laughs]

-Mm-hmm. Nice. -For him to buy Star Wars toys.

I think part of what he was doing was appeasing my mom

and distracting her and like,

"No, no, we're having a family event here.

And never mind, you know,

the things that I'm bringing home." You know,

-um, "We're spending time." Which we were. -Yep.

But i-- it's all part of that, that illusion of, uh, you know,

creating a normal situation

out of just the stockpiling of all this stuff over time.

♪ Super Superman ♪

[upbeat hip-hop music]

[Darren] You know, I've been asking local store owners

if they know these people by first name, that used to work at Classic,

and I asked about, uh, Dennis, Andy, Craig.

And I was told that, "Yeah, I think that's the Andy

that owns Back To The Past."

-Have you heard of Back To The Past? -I have.

[Darren] "We'd only be open by appointment. Saturday and Sunday."

-Did you make an appointment? -I didn't.

-[Darren] I didn't. -Not this time. We will.

You remember these people though, right, uh, from your child--

-Like, did you know them as a kid? -Yeah.

-No, I knew them. -Wow. I mean, going and talking to all these people,

do you think it will help you understand who your father was?

-A little more, you know. -Well, that's exactly why I'm doing it.

I mean, it's not just about like,

"Where'd you get this comic?" You know?

I mean, I'm very excited,

probably the most excited to figure out

what this part of my dad's l-- life was like.

[pensive music]

You know, it took him to really kind of lose his mind

-before he trusted his son. -Could you listen for a sec?

[Darren] Maybe if there was a history of reasons he couldn't trust me,

it makes sense, but I can't come up with any.

I, I tried to show him what a father I was starting to become.

He knew I took my relationships very seriously.

He knew I took my friend's loyalty very seriously.

So I don't know on what measurement

he was basing his, his, his stances on,

but I could never crack that code.

And it was just-- again, I, I think there's a wiring

when it's for so long that it just becomes your normal.

You know, I had a therapist one time tell me that, you know,

oftentimes when we're put against the wall or, you know, against--

w-- you know, when we're put in situations of stress

that we return to what's familiar rather than what's right,

you know, and the thing is that, um, that's--

I've found to be very true, you know.

It's complex. Like it's traumatic grief.

Because oftentimes when there's not a repair in the relationship,

when someone passes away,

it just adds to all of the churn

of everything that's been going on throughout the lifetime.

It just makes it more intense because there was no resolution.

[pensive music continues]

[Darren] Since my father's passing,

since him making me feel inadequate

and, and, and these other things,

even if they were conscious or subconscious, was removed.

If I reflect on the last couple of years,

I started doing it to myself more

and I really recognize it. I mean, it, it's, it's amazing

because I did not have some of the night terrors or some of the night struggles.

I mean, Renee has said that there have been times that

she has heard me scuffling around,

and she'll come downstairs, and I'm literally pacing.

I sat on the stairs 'cause I heard him from all the way upstairs,

and I went downstairs and I heard him,

and it's just-- he was arguing with his father.

[Darren] Well, I'm trying to tell you is I'm trying to use common terminology...

Swearing at my father. Like, if I'm half dreaming.

That's crazy, and that never happened before.

You know what I mean? That never happened before.

Is it exactly because he passed am I doing that?

Am I, am I making up for that,

you know, uh, conflict and that struggle

that I would feel with him all the time,

um, because it was removed?

Wow. That's a very powerful and interesting thing to think about.

But, um, I'm not doubting that that phenomenon occurs,

and I'm not doubting that I'm above it.

So, you know, fortunately,

it's something that I can be aware of

and maybe, uh, maybe fix.

-There we go. Can you hear me? -Yes, I can you hear you.

Yeah. All right. Good. Look at that.

The last time I remember you, you were about this,

-about this, about this big. -That, that would have been right.

Absolutely correct. And so--

-Time flies by-- -I probably was looking at the movie posters

and the cute girls on them and stuff.

-I remember that and everything. -Yeah.

-You know, stuff like that. -That was huge back then.

-Huge back then. -I know.

Well, I'm a 65 year old man with no computer skills.

Looks like I actually made it.

Wow. Danny, I'm proud of you, bro.

Well, you're the only one, sir.

[all chuckle]

Oh, come on now.

I wanted to introduce, um...

He's my closest friend Brian Krueger.

-Hey, Brian. -How are you guys doing?

-Good. -He definitely, I'm sure,

-saw you guys at one point. -Oh, yeah.

You know, he was, he was definitely in the stores like Classic's.

You know, you're kind of, like, the last lifelines

-of me piecing together... -Right.

...such a major, major hidden piece

of his life that he did not share.

I mean, he did not share it.

I liked Dale a lot.

You would never know he was a lawyer.

Like, he didn't carry himself, like,

"Listen, I'm gonna talk down to you" or whatever.

Uh, he, he went-- if you asked, uh, you know, Dale a question,

he would almost approach it with, like, like a friendly comedy.

Like, what kind of mess have you gotten yourself into this time?

But he would never make fun of you. He would never talk down to you.

Uh, but, but there was the side of Dale

that was an excellent lawyer,

and so I sure wouldn't have want to have been

on the other side of the table,

uh, from him, uh, you know, as a lawyer.

Do you have any memorable things with, with, with my father, Dennis?

-I mean, you know-- -I needed a car. He had a Mercury Sable.

-Yes, he did. -60,000 miles. The head gaskets went.

So he had me meet him at the used car lot on 12 Mile and Telegraph.

And I bought that car off of him for a Susan B. Anthony dollar.

-[Andy] So he sold it to you for a dollar? -A dollar.

-A Susan B. Anthony dollar. -I like that. I like that.

'Cause that's what I had in my pocket. And I thought it was funny.

So I flipped it up in the air and he caught it, and it ran forever.

I think I got 160,000 miles on it

just by making sure it had antifreeze in it

and everything was fine.

[laughs]

So y-- you guys, I mean,

we have 150 copies of Ghost Rider1.

We have 150 copies of Star Wars1.

-We have 150 copies of Strange Tales169. -[Andy] Wow.

-Okay. Why? Why? -[Andy] Uh-huh. Right.

-Why? How? -[Andy] So-- Right.

You know, Dale obviously was, was CC's lawyer.

You know, your dad was CC's lawyer.

Um, but I think they worked it out in trade.

You know, there's a certain amount of s-- stuff in these conversations

where, like, I can say, "Yep, that's what happened for sure,"

with, like, the Giant-Size X-Men1.

[gentle music]

I found a sealed case of Giant-Size X-Men,

sealed distributor case,

and I think it held 200 copies.

And I remember at the time, we sold--

They were selling-- I mean, it was

a really expensive book at the time.

It-- 'cause it was the true first appearance of the X-Men.

-So-- -Well, give me a year. Give me a year.

-What year are we talking? -Uh, this would have been 1980,

-'82 probably. -Okay, so it wasn't that old.

I mean, that book was like seven years old.

It was only like seven years old.

Well, but, but there's a punchline when I say

it was a really expensive book at the time.

-We were getting $40 to $45 a copy... -Whoa.

...for a mint copy ofGiant-Size X-Men No. 1.

It's possible at the time that CC was like,

even though him and Dale were friends, it was like,

"Listen, I'm kind of struggling financially.

I can get real money for these.

I'll give you a few copies, but I can't let you take

-100 copies of myGiant-Size X-Men 1." -[laughs]

[laughing] And you know.

[Darren] We have six or seven 9.8s of that book.

[Andy] You know, Dale was the original owner.

Nobody else had ever touched those before.

[stutters] So you guys are aware that there's a Superman1

at a 7.0 in this collection. Right?

-I didn't know that. -No? You know--

-[cross talk] -So that's a heavy hitter copy there, yeah.

But do you have any history?

-You didn't even know we had those. -[Andy] Well, so-- I,

I, I was gonna say I, you know...

I don't recall those books

-coming through the store, unfortunately. -[both exclaiming]

Uh, it wouldn't surprise me, you know,

if Dale wasn't going to the comic book conventions.

I don't know if you guys do recall,

but, I mean, Superman was his hero.

-I mean, Superman was his superhero. -Yeah, absolutely.

-Yeah. That was his guy. -Yeah. That was his guy. And we have a complete run.

-So it's not about just Superman1... -All right.

...it's 2 through, you know what, 468, right?

-All the way up. -[Andy] He had it all. That doesn't surprise me

'cause like you say, that was his guy.

[Darren] [stutters] If you do this still,

I, I'd be interested in just some, uh--

You know, I don't have my father to give the advice,

but, uh, any kind of, uh, you know, elder legacy advice...

-Yeah. -...on, you know, the situation here.

I-- You know, I could sit back and say...

"Man, I sold that amazing fantasy for 300 bucks or 250 bucks,

and, and now it's worth $100,000 or whatever it is,"

and beat myself up till the end of time.

But the reality of it is I'm where I'm at.

It, it all worked out good in the end.

How much is enough?

Like, if you sell your dad's collection for 10 million...

"Oh, I could have waited three years and gotten 12 million."

Or-- You know, I mean, at some point,

you gotta walk out of the casino.

You, you know, there's, there's gonna come that point.

And so that's how it was with me.

There just kind of came to this point where it was, like,

I never, I never looked back.

Not enough time to use the money, you're saying,

and enjoy the money.

Right. And if I could, if I could send you the view

of what I'm looking at here in Montana,

sitting in the Rocky Mountains,

what I wake up to every day, it's amazing.

So I really just traded something that I loved,

I did love my collection,

but I traded it for something that I love

that's just a different thing.

It was just, just kind of my,

-my time. -[whimsical music]

[Adam] So although Darren's search for the origin

of his Superman has hit a roadblock,

it inspired me to look at the origins of the Superman itself,

to see possible deeper roots of this archetype and myth in our world.

And I found that thousands of years ago,

there was a yogic god named Hanuman

who represents heroics, internal value and devotion.

And as he rips open his chest, much like Superman,

we see that devotion is to serve all mankind.

And maybe not surprisingly, I find people online arguing

about who would win in a battle between Hanuman and Superman.

And now Hanuman, well, he has his own superhero film.

But is that why we need and love these archetypes,

because of their powers and ability to defeat anything,

to rescue us from the forces of evil?

When you encounter something that's as strong, uh, stream

in, uh, our consciousness as the superheroes

and these other adventure type films are,

uh, then it must be expressing some human wish.

So we do wish for a savior. It would be nice, wouldn't it?

[stutters] And this is how I related to Superman as a kid.

[triumphant music]

Watching those old black and white shows,

it comforted me to have the idea

that if the school bus goes off the bridge,

that guy in a cape can fly down and save me.

And I knew-- maybe he'd be busy that day

and he wouldn't save us, but it made me feel better.

For me, comics were an escape because I was...

you know, I was the fat kid growing up.

I got bullied relentlessly in school.

I immediately connected with somebody like Iron Man

who could hide in that suit of armor that gave him power.

Ten-year-old me thought that was perfect.

So I think psychologically there was something going on with me.

It was, like, I kind of wished I had that.

[Monti] It's comforting.

It's comforting to go to a place

where things are clear

because life is so messy.

So I think that's where people might be drawn to it.

It might be also simplicity. It might be also avoidance.

It also might be like, "I want someone like that in my life."

You know, "I identify with this. I wish this person was my parent,"

or "I want this person to save me,"

because some of us wanted to be saved.

The downside of that is that you can wish yourself out of power

and turn it over to a leader,

to a hero, to a role model,

without examining that very closely, uh,

because there's always a real flawed human being behind all those masks.

We wanna hand it off.

We want somebody else, uh, to, to take charge,

and, uh, that just weakens us.

[whimsical music]

[Adam] And as I looked deeper into the origins of Superman,

I then found the actual word "superman"

and its first appearance from a German philosopher

that wasn't really looking for a heroic savior.

He was more interested in us taking our power back.

[Jack] Nietzsche was a 19th century German philosopher,

known for his kind of literary flair

and his provocative philosophical ideas.

[intriguing piano music]

One of the most famous of which

is, uh, his idea of the "Übermensch,"

which is commonly translated into "overman," "beyond-man,"

or most pertinently for our purposes today, "superman."

While DC Comic Universe Superman

is this kind of alien with literal superpowers,

Nietzsche's Übermensch is very much a human.

Not a human now,

but a-- what humans might become one day

were we not so repressed and inhibited.

It inspires us to ask, "Why do we value what we value?

Why do we think what's good is good?

What gives me meaning? What gives me fulfillment?

How much of this comes from me?

And how much of it comes from other people or other systems

or the kind of convention and social norms that we live by?"

Nietzsche's Übermensch is someone that isn't really concerned

with any of these external value systems.

It's just governed by, like, what is something

that makes them feel empowered within themselves.

When people hear words like "power,"

they often think of dominion over others,

but that's not really what Nietzsche is talking about.

He's not talking about dominion over others.

He's talking about dominion over yourself,

so that you're not this kind of tormented soul

that is constantly outsourcing your decision-making

to value systems that you don't really believe in in the first place.

The Übermensch is, is someone who feels completely at ease with themselves

and being with themselves, and they're unrepressed.

And it's, uh, it's about kind of liberating yourself

from these feelings of shame and guilt.

It's about self-overcoming.

I think the, the heroic act of the moment

is to take responsibility.

And, uh, that means to me

that y-- you have more power

over things than you think you do.

And that goes for your own body and your own health,

but also the vibrations all around you.

I believe that you are creating your world around you,

and you're doing it usually in an unconscious way

based on old injuries usually,

and things you're worried about moment to moment.

And I think the heroic act is to step back from that a little bit

and try to take a broader view and more responsibility.

Like, "I'm the God of my universe."

[dramatic music]

[Jack] With great responsibility comes great power.

And if we take power to mean what Nietzsche uses it as,

which is this sense of self-mastery,

that is the powerful person.

He's not saying this flippantly.

Like, it's not an easy thing to do.

He recognizes we have all these competing kind of desires

and drives within us, some natural, some learned,

and it will take many lifetimes of humans, Nietzsche thinks,

to, to really overthrow ourselves,

release ourselves from the shackles of, of this.

[music intensifies, fades away]

[Adam speaking]

That's interesting.

My current feeling is that the Superman

is the face of this collection.

I feel the collection would feel hollow without it in it.

Um, I think that if I wanna give someone a secret

on how to pry that away from me at some point,

an argument would--

You're not gonna get me with numbers.

You're not. I mean-- You're not.

Uh, $10 million, I mean, okay, mm...

One of my conditions would be that

that book isn't sitting in his private safe at home.

No. Um...

And two, uh, why mine?

I really would wanna know.

Is it the story? Is it the book?

Is it something he's always wanted?

Uh, does he already have a copy? Is he trading up?

Is he a massive Superman fan? Is he a massive comic fan?

Um, what's the story? What's his story?

You know, why does he wanna own it?

I mean, I would have to do a mini interview on someone.

I mean it. I mean, this isn't someone I just want to own this

because they think it's neat and it's just another little trophy on their wall.

And I don't care how much money they have.

I do wish that it was, uh,

in, in a place where it could be enjoyed more.

So I think the only way that I'd consider,

um, releasing that book in some way

is if it was in partnership with a display

that could be enjoyed and visited by the public, by a-- anyone.

Um, my kryptonite on that Superman1 is gonna be,

"All right, you're gonna tell me, you're gonna-- How are you gonna help

a bunch of other people that are big fans?"

You know, it would have to be something like that.

A philanthropy effort

in a major way revolving around the character.

[whimsical music]

[Adam] So the buyer from Minister Jeff

declined the idea of talking with Darren,

but then Jeff made an intro to another person,

the seller of theSuperman No. 1 8.0

for that record $5.3 million.

And although I met and filmed them,

in the end, they preferred to keep their identity hidden.

I don't know if this is some strange superhero phenomenon

of wanting to stay secret,

but as an outsider to this comic book world,

I can say my experience has been the opposite.

What I've come to see is the majority of the people in this community

feel free to be themselves.

They love what they love and wanna be seen.

And this idea of being true to the self, I think, is really epitomized

by one of the most well-known collectors

with one of the biggest comic book stores in the world.

You don't always please everybody,

and if you try to, you're an idiot.

I don't try to.

I don't even come close to trying to.

Um, you know, Captain Alienation at your service here.

[soft music]

I just like to have lots and lots and lots of stuffs. Woohoo!

And have fun and be able to know

that I'm getting up in the morning and doing good things.

And maybe not everything works out every day, okay?

But my intent is to create joy in this world.

Okay, let's walk in the back so I can show you

-a little bit more of my craziness. -[Brian] Oh, yeah.

-[Chuck] I mean... -Oh, my God.

[Chuck] At a certain point in time,

you go past being a businessman and a transactionalist,

and you become a touchstone

for very emotional responses within people.

Every one of those comics was purchased with you in mind.

As you said, he wasn't selling anything, was he?

-No, sir. -So what was he thinking?

Your dad was thinking that they would be yours,

and he was thinking that that would be his way

of leaving you that which he couldn't leave you in life.

He was leaving you his love.

[Darren] That was not his motive one bit.

But I will agree on one end is,

you know, to believe that's, uh, certainly better

than, uh, carrying the anger.

[pensive music]

[Chuck] If he has an idealized notion in his own head

that somehow he can buy his own redemption through this...

Mm...

Try again.

It gets really complicated 'cause even though my father was an abuser,

I still have a lot of his stuff, and I would never sell it.

Like his medals from, from being shot in World War II.

Purple Heart, things like that.

And the reason, the number one reason

is because it's still...

...subconsciously...

...provides me with a hope of someday reconciling with him

even though he's dead, he's gone,

and that reconciliation will never happen.

As long as I still have his stuff...

...I still feel like that could happen.

All hope is gone when your dreams die.

And so these tangible objects keep the dreams alive

even though they are nothing more than that.

And consciously, I know they're nothing more than that.

But the little five-year-old boy

that he used to whip with a belt every single day...

...still lives here

and still hopes here

that someday Daddy will stop beating him.

They're the connection to hope.

And the idea of letting him go

is more than I could bear.

It's irrational...

...but it sustains me.

[upbeat music]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We saw you.

I really am processing a lot, you know.

Like... where's my identity?

I have to say the mindset of having the comic

or collectibles world be more of a full-time,

you know, engagement of mine is very attractive. [chuckles]

We've got a pretty amazing story for you here at the Geekscape booth.

[Darren] Somehow be involved in this community

and stay involved. I don't know.

Carve out some, some way of making a difference in this,

in this, in this industry.

[muted]

[Monti] We're all a product of our traumatized society.

I mean, there's still messages about therapy being for weak people, right,

when it's actually courage that you showed up with.

[Darren] It took a bit to get that. Yeah. [chuckles]

The pendulum swing was very far.

You know, you go from complete secrecy

to having my name on a San Diego Comic-Con panel.

I mean, that doesn't even make sense

from what we were dealing with when I was a kid,

where it's like, I'm not even allowed to go in that room,

let alone talk about comics on stage.

[applause]

[gentle music]

[Adam speaking]

I don't think I have a choice but to believe that now.

I mean, the evidence is just there, and I'm--

you know, I'm a scientific person.

I mean, you can't refute the truth. [chuckles]

And the fact is that I'm being told

in every format you can imagine,

email, text, direct message, verbally,

phone calls, podcasts,

in every single way, that this is impacting people,

and it isn't even out.

So, I mean, I mean, here we are talking about it--

I'm almost talking about it like it's already been made.

I mean, it's just surreal to me.

[Celeste] The happy part about it is that he's met so many nice people

who do understand what, what, you know, he's gone through.

When I went to the Comic-Con, I could see the happy side that he gets from it

because there were so many nice, kind people that are there

that really seemed to appreciate the message that we're trying to get out.

And so many people have come up to Darren and said the same thing.

You know, "I realize I'm, I'm rethinking about how I'm collecting."

[soft bass music]

[Brian] He loves talking to people.

Like, that's his favorite part, is going and talking to people,

and I, I think it's good for him.

He's made a bunch of new friends and comic book friends.

You can discuss things, and it's not the end of the world.

I mean, you're talking comics.

It's ActionNo. 1. First appearance in Mexico.

You know, there's always a quest to find what you don't have.

Uh, I'm really looking for an Action23.

To upgrade what you do have

and then to get rid of what you have, you know.

So I can tell he's enjoying it, and that's nice to see.

[Darren] You know, it's just organic friendships being built.

You know, when I go to these cons, it's a, it's a, it's a nice reminder,

whether they're small or big,

of the-- just the community of this.

There's just a lot of trust in this, uh, this industry,

which I find refreshing to deal with,

where I deal with quite the opposite in the businesses

that I'm in, you know, especially the tech company.

A 7.5. Wow, that is our only one.

-[man] Okay. So yeah. -[Darren] Sweet shit.

So where we are at this point, it's totally running like a business.

We're selling on eBay. We're selling on Instagram. We're selling on Facebook.

We're selling directly from our website fantastcollection.com.

I mean, we're selling worldwide.

I have people in Germany and Australia.

I actually have someone in Singapore right now

that's asking-- that's interested in books. I mean, it's crazy.

Harley comes by to pick up books for when he's going to shows.

Josh, he's got a lot of books that he's, you know, working through.

You know, we're a team. It's a big Fantast family.

[Darren] There'd be so many things I'd say to my dad, you know.

Oh, my God. So many things.

But, you know, if all-- it, it-- [sighs]

Of all the things I'd wanna say to him,

it's almost that I'd be more curious

to just know what he would think of it.

Not that I need his approval, not that I even want it.

I would be floored to know

what he would think of this.

Um... [chuckles] I mean, I honestly think that he'd be impressed.

I do.

I think that he'd be impressed about what we were able to achieve.

I think he'd be proud of the business part of it.

[melancholic music]

I don't think he'd be impressed about the fact

that we're touching all these people

and that, you know, it's resonating.

I think he'd be confused with that.

And that's just part of his lack of understanding emotions.

I don't think he'd understand why people are sending--

I absolutely know for a fact he would be very confused

of why someone would ever contact me, that doesn't know me,

and saying, "You're helping me be a better father because of what you're doing."

He would find that silly.

And that's sad. That makes me sad.

You know, I really wish he'd see the, uh...

...the human, the emotional component of what we're doing, a lot.

That's the hardest.

So I wouldn't wanna tell him a lot

because I don't think it'd fall on open ears.

[Adam] Then a few months later, surprisingly,

Darren decided to pull back from the comics...

-[lock clicks] -...to step back from the attention,

the podcasts, going to Comic-Cons,

and being so occupied by the collector world.

Much like the Übermensch,

he realized the inner world needed his attention

to address the demons within

and find some resolution of the angers of the past.

[gentle piano music]

[Darren] I never, I never figured it out.

So I don't have a happy story.

Biggest thing I, I'd like is to be proud of the things I'm doing.

And, um... the one thing I'd want for myself,

I would say, if there was one word...

...it would just be peace.

[wind gusting]

[gentle upbeat music]

[Darren] Just kind of releasing and forgiving some of that

has been something that's--

I've been able to accomplish a little bit more lately.

It's been, uh, pretty liberating.

[muted]

-How cool is that? -Thanks.

It's very special for me to give that to you, man.

This is awesome.

[Darren] I just want the best relationship

with my brother I could possibly have,

and it has been getting better.

[muted]

[shatters]

[Brian] That was sweet.

[laughter]

-You don't need that? -We do, we do need this one.

I know. It's the best. [laughs]

♪ 'Cause I'm super super Superman ♪

[music continues]

♪ I'm on the go with it in the air, by sea on the floor with it ♪

♪ Showtime in the sky this show business ♪

♪ With a S on my chest and I glow oh ♪

♪ Big body, big beam eyes I lay them flat like a one-man D-line ♪

♪ I'm rare I'm different with the X-ray visions ♪

♪ Leap tall buildings like, "Gee, wow" ♪

♪ Man of steel in the train station ♪

♪ It's a bird, it's a plane not a PlayStation ♪

♪ I got more power in my finger than a locomotive ♪

♪ And the Hall of Doom stay hatin' ♪

♪ Red kryptonite green kryptonite, hey ♪

♪ I be on it, yeah on that Kryptonite, hey ♪

♪ Faster than a speeding bullet super speed Justice League ♪

♪ Keys to the city world's finest I will never leave ♪

♪ Lois Lane, know your lane Brainiac, I know some things ♪

♪ And I got hands, yeah I've been known to throw them things ♪

♪ Bang! Put the world on my back ♪

♪ 'Cause I'm super super Superman ♪

♪ Superman ♪

♪ Super super Superman ♪

♪ Super super Superman ♪

♪ Yo, how can I transcend this villainous mind ♪

♪ Before my ways catch up past the point of rewind? ♪

♪ Time's ticking I'm opening portals like a magician ♪

♪ Seeing things that aren't there or is it a vision? ♪

♪ Is this whole damn thing a hallucination ♪

♪ Or are they coming through the door like a home invasion? ♪

♪ My most prized possession deep in the basement ♪

♪ If they find it, I'll lose 'cause there's no replacement ♪

♪ Its face value doesn't matter to me ♪

♪ It's mine and only for my eyes to see ♪

♪ And only for my little fingers to feel I'm like a superhero ♪

♪ Everywhere I'm striking the deal No one remembers my face ♪

♪ And I ain't leaving a trace Think you're different ♪

♪ Till the moment that you've taken a taste ♪

♪ Once you feel that sensation you can never erase ♪

♪ Might not believe it but you'll taste it for the rest of your days ♪

-♪ Yeah ♪ -[Adam speaking]

-Yeah. You're gonna walk-- -Does that make sense?

Like, would I walk through the parking lot without my shirt on?

-[laughs] -[Adam] Start back a little ways.

-Start back. -[Adam] You'll walk out here

and then, and then put the shirts on.

[music resumes]

♪ Super super Superman ♪

♪ Super super Superman ♪

♪ Super super Superman ♪

[laughs]

[cross talk]