Original subtitles

How extraordinary.

-And look at these beautiful trees. -Mm-hm.

'Cause they…

they're 70 years older than they were when I lived here.

Which one was it? It's around here somewhere.

This one here, I think.

How wonderful.

You can see…

-…how lovely this would have been. -Absolutely.

One day, I'd done something that I shouldn't have done,

and I was being reprimanded

-and sent to my room. -Mm-hm.

But I didn't… You know, that room I had,

I shared with my two brothers.

And so, they sent me to Gilly's room.

"And don't you come out.“ You know, blah, blah, blah.

And I went into this bedroom, sat on the bed with a book.

And it was raining outside, and it was warm and cosy, and I thought…

…"I can't think of anything better than this."

Is this punishment? 'Cause this is wonderful!

-Hello. You are? -I'm the neighbour across the road.

- Are you? - I know the owners

- of your historic house. - Oh, gosh.

- We call it the Rocky Horror House. - Do you really?

- We do! - No, stop it!

- It's famous! - Good heavens above!

It's famous!

- Nice to meet you. Your name is? - Nice to meet you. Sue.

- Sue. - Sue Middleton.

- God bless you. - Lovely to meet you, Richard.

- Au revoir. - Bye.

♪ On the day I went away

♪ Goodbye

♪ Was all I had to say

♪ Now I

♪ I want to come again and stay

♪ Oh, my, my… I

It used to stand almost where I used to cut hair.

-Oh, right. -That's where they put it.

That, you know, this is where I used to stand.

Because it exactly was. And can you imagine?

Can you imagine when I was a barber, cutting people's hair like this,

and I said to them… and imagine if I'd gone,

“Do, you know, one day, all this will be torn down.

"All this building that we're standing in will be torn down

"and there'll be a statue of me…

"wearing fishnets here."

Can you imagine? And what would he have said?

"Yeah. Could you send for the men with the white coats?"

♪ I'm going home.' ♪

I would like…to take you…

- on a strange journey. - I' It's astounding

♪ Time is fleeting…' ♪

This crowd is lining up for a film about transvestites,

popular with young people in 175 cities across the land.

♪ But listen closely

♪ Not for very much longer… ♪

Rocky Horror became much more than a movie, it became an event.

Every theatre where it plays becomes something like a nightclub.

♪ I remember… ♪

The movie, like these people, wants to shock you, repulse you.

I've seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show 137 times, as of tonight.

- 91 with tonight. - 122 times.

I'll tell you one thing, though - I'd hate to have to clean up

after one of them Rocky Horror Picture Shows.

♪ Let's do the time warp again

It's the only cult film, really, that's ever had this kind of longevity.

♪ It's just a jump to the left… ♪

-♪ And then a step to the right… ♪ -The music, the characters.

The theme - "Don't dream it, be it." The audience participation.

Everything about the film, it's magical.

♪ But it's the pelvic thrust

♪ That really drives you insa-a-a-a-a-ane… ♪

Why don't we try it? Why don't we go out there and see what it's like?

If you haven't done it, how would you know?

It's not a movie, it's a way of life.

When I first heard about Rocky, I was 17 years old.

I was shopping at the ShopKo in Marinette, Wisconsin,

and in this bargain bin, there was a DVD

with this man with high heels on the front of it

and these big, red lips.

And I was like, "It looks weird. I think I'm gonna like it."

And I took it home and watched it,

and it was like hearing a radio channel playing something

that I just had never heard before.

"Oh, my gosh! I've never tasted, seen, smelled anything like this."

Some people, when they're teenagers, have the wherewithal

to come out and live their truth.

I was in a very primal beginning stage of that,

which is called hating yourself.

And I knew to keep all that shit to myself,

but I also knew that this film,

it was, like, very gay,

but I was very much allowed to like it.

♪ Don't dream it… ♪

l made a trip to Milwaukee to see it in a movie theatre.

♪ Be it…' ♪

And I remember the lights went down,

and the spotlight came on, and the shadow cast began.

I don't know, it was like being on another planet.

♪ Don't dream it… ♪

My understanding of myself was so small,

and my understanding of, like, gay world was even smaller.

But this was like a pop-up book

of rock-and-roll and sex and drugs and the power of that.

♪ Don't dream it… ♪

By the second time I was at Rocky, I was in Rocky.

It was a very safe environment to put on high heels and not call it drag.

Because most of the cast of Rocky where I was

was straight men and straight women.

And they were cross-dressing, but we didn't really call it drag.

We just called it "doing Rocky."

♪ Be it…' ♪

When I started doing "Science Fiction/Double Feature",

they started calling me Trixie, and that's just…

I mean, that's how I ended up getting the name.

And, ironically, my stepdad - who I had a very tough relationship with -

used to call me a Trixie when I was acting too feminine or too emotional.

So, coming into college being called a Trixie was a huge…

it was like being called a faggot, you know?

And so, then, when I was in Rocky and I got called Trixie,

it went from the worst thing I could think of

to a name given to me by probably my first chosen family.

I feel like my drag name got picked for me by Rocky.

Every Halloween, when I watch Rocky, I reflect on, like, wow, this…

So much of what I have came from my experience

of finding this film in a…

…in a ShopKo in Marinette, Wisconsin for $5.

In 1964, at the age of 22,

I was living in New Zealand.

And I got on a boat,

and for £110, I spent five weeks at sea…

…from Auckland to England.

England was class-ridden and dank and dark.

And it was monochromatic - a black and white society.

And it was completely black and white until 1967.

The year of love and flower power.

And suddenly, England became technicolour.

I did jobs - I would clean houses, pumped gas,

I was a dustman.

And in the evening times, I'd be in this drama class,

learning how to act.

They were teaching the Method, which we were all into those days.

You had to be into the Method, because this is a time

when old-fashioned acting was no longer acceptable

because Marlon Brando was a method actor.

Paul Newman was a method actor.

You know, James Dean was a method actor.

You're tearing me apart!

I met my friend Chrissie Shrimpton there,

who was Mick Jagger's first girlfriend.

We were both at a rather crappy drama school

called The Actors' Workshop,

which was a sort of faux copy of the one in New York.

And Richard was a very serious young man.

Really quite clever.

And we became very close friends very quickly.

You know, the reason why is because…

…he just had this sort of really deep quality,

and really sensitive.

Chrissie was going down to an audition of Gulliver's Travels,

and she said, "Come along with me."

She didn't get the audition, but I did.

The choreographer of Gulliver's Travels was also choreographer in Hair.

I got into that and went 'round the country with that musical,

which is where I met your mother, Kimi.

And during that period,

Jesus Christ Superstar was being mounted,

and everybody in Hair auditioned for that.

I got into Jesus Christ Superstar,

and I was contracted to take over the role of King Herod.

I had about two rehearsals.

I went on, and Robert Stigwood, the producer,

was sat up in the royal box,

watching my rendition of King Herod.

And he was a bit like Caesar at the end of it.

After I'd finished, you'd kind of look up to the box,

and he went, "Hmm."

The director of Jesus Christ Superstar

was Jim Sharman, an Australian.

He came into the theatre and pulled me into one of the rooms and said,

"I'm so sorry about what's happened. I didn't know that was gonna happen.

"But I'd like to work with you again. I think you have some talent."

And I said, "Thank you very much."

But I thought this was lip service. I didn't truly believe him.

But you had just been born…

…and I was trying to decide

whether or not to stay in the theatre.

Because, you know, waiting for the phone to ring is not an option.

-Right. -Um…

I was contemplating, because my responsibility now as a parent

was to make sure that, you know, I wasn't unemployed.

And so, I was weighing up my options,

whether I should return to New Zealand and get a proper job

or stay as an actor…

…and I really wasn't sure.

Just after that moment in time, I said to Jim Sharman,

I said, "I'm writing a little musical myself,

"which might amuse you. It's amusing me.

"Would you be interested in listening to what I've got?“

At that time, having just done three musicals,

a lot of musicals were coming my way, and I said,

"I hope it's not religious.“

And, of course, it's the only one that ended up with its own cult.

And he came around with a very reluctant Richard Hartley.

You know, he told Jim that he had this idea for a rock musical.

And I said, "Oh, my God.

"Not another one.“

It was a period when there were… you know, everyone and their dog

had a sort of rock musical in their back pocket.

And they sat there, and I played "Science Fiction/ Double Feature."

Three times that night, actually, I had to play that one…

..and a few of the other songs, and read a little bit of the script.

And Jim went away, and it was silent for about three or four days.

♪ Michael Rennie was ill the day the earth stood still

♪ But he told us where we stand

♪ And Flash Gordon was there in silver underwear

♪ Claude Rains was the Invisible Man

♪ Then something went wrong… ♪

I got a phone call, and he said,

"They've asked me to do another play downstairs at the Royal Court Theatre.

"But I've told them I only will if I can have three weeks' fun upstairs first.

"So, we're on."

"And I need another 20 pages in two days

"and another five songs in two days.“

♪ Science fiction

♪ Double feature

♪ Ooh-ooh-ooh

♪ Doctor X

♪ Oh-oh-oh

♪ Will build a creature

♪ See androids fighting

♪ Brad and Janet

♪ Anne Francis stars in

♪ Oh, Forbidden Planet

♪ Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh

♪ At the late-night

♪ Double-feature picture show. ♪

Yeah, something like that, I think.

Awesome. So good to hear it.

And that's the single.

Yeah, so, that's what he sang. That was the first song.

He didn't sing it as fast as that, but anyway…

-Was that fast? Was I? -Yeah, it was fast.

Was I? I was trying to get out of here.

-I've got a bus to catch. -That was nerves.

Haven't got much time left, you see?

I kept diddling away,

not necessarily in a linear form.

I'd write a song, and we'd put that there.

I might have a little… a joke might occur to me,

and I'd pop it in or write it down and scribble things.

Sharman] lt happened very fast. It was very instinctive.

It was not much time for fears and nerves.

The symbiotic relationship of the creative team

was thrilling to observe.

So, you have Jim Sharman,

such a talented director, especially in musicals,

which is the hardest thing to direct.

The brilliant Richard O'Brien with his baby,

this unfinished musical called They Came From Denton High.

I basically suggested to Richard

on the simple principle that it's a rock-and-roll horror show,

why don't we just call it what it is?

You have Brian Thompson, the set designer.

He and Jim had an incredible relationship together.

All the visuals, they're just so unusual and original.

Then you had Richard Hartley.

It was a perfect combination.

Richard O'Brien wrote the song,

but Richard Hartley would finesse it and make it blossom.

Richard has a knack for simplicity in his songs.

He has a way of putting those lyrics to something

that is very simple, memorable and fits with the words.

You know, that's a skill.

The only person in the creative team required now was a costume designer.

My friend asked, "Would you meet a director

"who's being really difficult…"

"..About finding somebody to do the costumes for a show?

We've tried anybody who's any good,

and they've all turned it down.

You would think that,

if you were casting a rock musical,

that the director, Jim Sharman, would be looking for,

you know, very strong voices.

Well, he wasn't.

I didn't necessarily cast an actor

just because they had the technical skill

to do something, though, of course, they did.

I was looking in their eyes and thinking,

"Is this an interesting person?

"What will they actually bring to this that isn't already there?"

I lived in a tiny, crappy apartment

on Paddington Street, two doors away from a gym.

And I was out on the sidewalk, and I bumped into Richard.

He was coming out of the gym.

And I said, "What were you doing in the gym?"

And he said, "I'm looking for a muscle man who can sing."

I said, "Really? Why do you need him to sing?“

And then he told me he'd written this musical.

I read the script, and I thought it was really good and quite funny.

What was the first impression of the script when you read it?

Very short.

I looked at the script,

and the character called Magenta had about four lines.

And I thought, "Mm."

But she had the song, which was the Usherette song,

so I didn't…wasn't interested in this Magenta person.

I just wanted to do that song.

When I first read for the part, I read it with a German accent,

'cause he was called Frank-N-Furter.

And one day, I was on a bus in London,

and a woman in front of me said to her lady friend,

"Do you live in ty-own,

or do you have a hoise in the count-rah ?"

And I thought, "That's it. He ought to sound like the Queen.“

How forceful you are, Brad.

Such a perfect specimen of manhood.

When we were auditioning, I wanted to play Eddie.

Because Eddie gets out of a fridge, sings a song,

gets back in the fridge and disappears.

But Jim said, "I want you to play Riff-Raff."

l always saw Richard as Riff-Raff.

His very gaunt, but very striking look.

I did see in him a touch of Max Schreck from Nosferatu.

One day, Jim Sharman asked Richard,

"Can you write a song for the three servants

"and they do a little dance together?"

Well, Richard went home,

and with his then-wife and your mother, Kimi,

first they invented a dance,

and then Richard wrote a song to match the dance.

And then, before rehearsal started the next morning,

he swung by Richard Hartley's tiny, tiny basement flat

and they finessed the chorus

and arrived on time for rehearsal with "The Time Warp."

♪ Oh, I remember

♪ Doing the Time Warp

♪ Drinking those moments when

♪ Blackness would hit me

♪ And the void would be calling, oh

♪ Let's do the Time Warp again

The nice thing about it was there was no pressure on us,

'cause it didn't matter if it didn't go any further.

It really was a moment in time and a moment of fun.

♪ Time warp again. ♪

Yeah, so…

My approach was to be inventive,

to be improvisatory, to be playful.

We were actually looking for another way to present the work,

and we were looking towards

some quite radical, experimental Eastern European ways

of kind of putting the audience above the action

and looking down in the tiny space.

'Cause we didn't treat it as a theatre.

We just created the whole space as a stage.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

So, being a 60-seat room,

the set designer, Brian Thompson,

put scaffolding everywhere.

Our stage was the width of my hands here,

and we only had one wooden chair.

That was the set.

And the problem, where to put the band?

So, they made a cinema screen and put the band behind that.

So, that's why the set became a cinema screen.

We had nothing, but that's why he did scaffolding,

so we could climb up it and have different places to sit.

I was very much educated in film by seeing late-night movies.

I was very educated in film by watching Weimar cinema.

And I was very educated in theatre by understanding Weimar cabaret.

All of those things, I think, came to play in Rocky Horror.

I was also brought up in a travelling boxing troupe.

I also saw fairground shows and popular culture,

but I'd also directed Mozart and Shakespeare,

so the notion of actually combusting high art and low art,

that was new at the time,

but it was something that I very much embraced.

And I would say Brian Thompson, Richard Hartley and Sue Blane

came out of exactly that same ethos.

We created immersive theatre,

not stuck behind the proscenium arch in a picture frame.

It was a really good time. It was very creative.

And I remember reaching a crisis fairly early on,

because I would snap out an order to somebody

and they wouldn't quite jump to it.

And I stopped and had a sort of rather small tantrum

and said, "Look, I can't be powerful

"if you don't accept the power

"and at least cringe a little."

So, that took care of that pretty quickly.

I mean, they were awfully good about that.

Acting is a very competitive sport,

and you have to take it on, you know?

Like a prize fight.

And I've lost a few in my time.

First preview, I was… I was, um…

I was nervous.

The nerves…ran through me.

We got to that "Over at the Frankenstein Place",

and they sang that line.

♪ Over at the Frankenstein place. ♪

And the audience laughed.

And with that laughter came a flood of relief

that it wasn't gonna go too badly.

That we were… it was gonna be all right.

If they're laughing at that, then they'll laugh at anything.

On the opening night, just as we were about to start,

there was a mighty blast of thunder

over London.

It was raining. It was belting down.

There was a skylight in the roof.

I looked out and the lightning went…

..and flashed!

I'm sitting there going, "Whoa! If that ain't a good omen,

"I don't know what is."

And I thought, "Something has started.“

We opened, and it was a phenomenal, phenomenal success.

The reviews the next morning…

Barry Humphries said, "Impossible to overpraise."

And then, the Daily Mail theatre critic gave it a rave review.

So, within a week, we knew it was going to be…probably had legs.

I don't think we knew quite what to expect when it first opened.

We were due to play for three weeks,

and then, it was sold out very quickly.

I got all these reports from people in London saying,

"You've no idea what's going on.

"You know, you can't get a ticket for it.

"It's absolutely amazing."

And before I knew it, it was a huge hit

and was going to transfer down Kings Road.

It absolutely exploded,

and it was shocking how successful it was

and how people were really crushing to get in and see it.

This was something alive,

something so funny but also something quite tragic.

Because one minute you were in love with Frank-N-Furter,

and the next minute you felt terribly sorry for Frank-N-Furter.

And you laughed at Brad and Janet,

and then you felt terribly scared for them.

You know, there was so much in it, emotionally.

The very first night that we did the transfer -

and we're now no longer a fringe theatre event,

we're in a proper theatre -

Michael White came up, and he said, "I think we've got a hit, Richard."

I said, "Oh, really? Okay“ and got in the car and drove home.

Don't count your chickens until they're hatched, you know.

♪ How do you do? ♪

♪ See you've met my

♪ Faithful handyman… ♪

Do you remember the reaction in the audience

when you first revealed yourself and threw off the cloak?

Yeah. Well, I had a rather good entrance in the original play,

because it was a tiny theatre,

and I came down a sort of wooden staircase.

l I actually asked Brian

to adjust the height of the ramps,

so that when his stilettos stamped down on the floor,

they would be at eye-height with the audience.

So that there would be genuine fear of physical damage.

♪ Transylvania… ♪

This creature.. .walked down,

and the most extraordinary shift happened.

Once he hits the stage, he just throws off his cape,

and there he is in the corset, the garters, the fishnet,

the whole god-damn caboodle.

Everyone just went nuts.

It was incredible.

He turned around and gave them that smile, and they went, “Yes."

And it surprised them.

They were surprised by their own attraction

to this. . .this creature.

♪ I'll get you a satanic mechanic

♪ I'm just a sweet transvestite… ♪

Frank-N-Furter as a variation on Frankenstein

is obsessed with image and the way that things look,

but I see him and play him as a kind of grisly…

…real freak.

I was down in the middle of the audience half the time,

which was an extremely vulnerable place to be,

but a very authoritative kind of place to be.

And it gave me power.

♪ And he's good for relieving my… ♪

What's so alluring about Frank-N-Furter

is his forward sexuality.

He knows what he desires,

and he expresses that, and he pursues that freely.

As a society, we're taught to repress our desires

or to feel shameful around our libido,

and the fact of that sexual strength

becomes a thing that seems alluring.

♪ Transylvania… ♪

That was my first awareness

that when you cross-dress, you become powerful.

And for good or bad, you become the most important person in the room.

♪ I see you shiver with antici…

♪ ..pation… ♪

And for a man to forfeit his privilege, right?

Because we all com modify masculinity.

Which, in theory, means you step down the ladder in power.

But by doing so, you step up the ladder.

It doesn't make sense. It's like a paradox.

And that's what makes it so compelling to watch.

= Frank-N-Furter coming on stage

and throwing off that cape and going…

♪ I'm just a sweet transvestite. ♪

…without any apology…

is wonderful.

It's so out-there and so in-your-face.

Such a liberating role,

and I think it liberated other people.

♪ Don't get strung out by the way that I look

♪ Don't judge a book by its cover

♪ I'm not much of a man by the light of the day

♪ But by night I am one hell of a lover

♪ I'm just a sweet transvestite

♪ Ooh

♪ From Transexual

♪ Transylvania. ♪

-Great. -Something like that.

I forget how songs go sometimes.

I go, "Oh! What the fuck? How did that go?

You know, your personal journey,

for you to be your authentic self, for you to feel comfortable saying

that you're 30% female and 70% male,

it took you a long time to get to that point.

Well, there's… Yes, but, I mean…

I remember the first time I went out in a frock…

and somebody said to me, "Oh, you're out of the closet."

I said, "Well, you see, the thing is, I may well have been in the closet,

"but the door was wide open, wasn't it?"

You know what I mean?

At six-and-a-half, I remember,

I was looking at some magazine or something,

and I blurted it out, you know.

"I want to be the fairy princess when I grow up."

And I remember him going…

I remember the look of… and I remember that feeling of,

"Whoops, I've said something I shouldn't."

And…the shutters came down.

And there was nowhere to go. Even if I had said it in those days,

there was no way my parents would have known how to deal with it.

I think it's the repression which causes the insanity and the pain,

and I used to beat myself up all the time.

I was forever at war with myself…

and feeling desperate.

In the early days, you didn't cross-dress,

because it just wouldn't have happened.

I can remember when, you know, he must have come out to Jane,

and he was giving me a lift somewhere, and he said,

"If I decided to change sex, would you still be my friend?

And I thought…"Well, yeah.

“Yeah, I would be, because I'm your friend."

And he said, "Why doesn't my wife understand?"

And I said, "Well, it's quite different."

You know, "I can't give you that opinion. It's quite different."

So, I think that sort of struggle

to be accepted on both levels of himself…

And he did tell me once

that he'd been born that way and he wished he hadn't

because it had been so difficult for him.

I mean, I… And he has paved the way for it,

to open the door for many people

who must have been suffering in that way.

About eight years ago, I stepped off the edge of the abyss.

Couldn't find my way up. Couldn't break the surface.

Locked in this kind of…

dreadful well of despair.

And then, I talked to my son on the phone, my oldest boy Linus.

And he said, "Dad, you've got to understand

"that we love you completely, absolutely.

"It doesn't matter what you've done or where you've been

"or whatever has happened.

"You… You are loved, and we care for you."

Our art expresses our desires,

sometimes before we understand them ourselves.

Our art expresses something about who we are

before we can cut through the pressures

to not be who we want to be.

And I think that that's maybe what's happened in this case.

I don't see it as sad. I see it as actually kind of beautiful.

Can you tell us about how you ended up

seeing Rocky Horror for the first time?

That was…

thanks to…

Britt Ekland.

At the time, she was my girlfriend.

Britt called and said…

"There is a musical here…

"called The Rocky Horror Show,

"and it's the rage of London."

From the beginning,

I felt it was a…an event

and something very, very special.

I was taken by the cast and the music immediately,

enough so that I wanted to make a deal that night.

I would venture to say,

because I think Lou is a very shrewd producer,

he might have had the thought, even then,

that by doing it at the Roxy that might also trigger a film.

I wanted to put it into the Roxy in Los Angeles

because of the way that it was presented in London.

The Roxy was perfect for it - sort of cabaret.

That you could go beyond sitting in a theatre,

but that you could enjoy the whole experience of it.

And in the back of my mind,

I just envisioned it as a film…

pretty much from the beginning.

The casting for The Roxy,

we had some very, very talented people,

most of who were local actors.

I thought, pretty much, I couldn't duplicate Tim Curry.

That was somebody that we had to bring over.

And that went for Richard, also.

But not only the fact that you were getting the actor that was in it,

but you were getting the creator.

Opening night at the Roxy was something really special.

We had a turnout of the rock-and-roll celebrities -

the John Lennons.

Everyone wanted to be there for it.

Lou Adler knew how to put on a show.

I mean, he had searchlights outside the theatre,

in the sky, and…

…it was a big deal.

Were you pleased when you heard a movie might get made

about the play?

It was great. There had been overtures.

Mick Jagger's company approached me and wanted to buy the film rights.

And I went into the theatre that night and said,

♪im, I just met with Mick Jagger's people.

"He wants to buy the film rights."

He said, "Don't do that." I said, "Why not?"

He said, "Because then we won't be able to do it.

"If he does it, we won't be able to do it.“

I went, "Oh! All right."

Can you tell me about how the movie came together?

My attorney at the time, Gordon Stulberg

moved on to become the head of 20th Century Fox,

so that connection gave me

the real possibility of making a deal.

I invited Gordon to the show, and I said,

"You can't come unless you bring your kids with you."

I think Gordon went along with what the audience

was providing to him as excitement,

and the kids in his ear as he was driving home.

I don't think he ever understood what he…

..the deal that he made.

And one of the great things about this

is that we were a fringe theatre event, and we were allowed to make a movie.

And not only that, Jim was allowed to direct it.

Not only that, Brian Thompson was allowed to be the artistic director.

Not only that, Tim was allowed to play the lead role.

That's very rare, especially when it's American Hollywood money.

They go, “Oh, we better recast. Get a name in."

And that didn't happen. We were all allowed to play.

The normal fight in those situations

is for the studio to say, "We want names."

But because the film costs a little under a million dollars,

and, to be very truthful,

Michael White and I guaranteed the million,

so that if the film did not complete filming

or didn't come out well, et cetera,

we would be the losers.

I mean, the excitement, to me, of the film

very much was in the fact that, for once, there wasn't something that was created

by a very small group of people which was then taken over

by a sort of massive concern and sort of pulped out.

We've kept the sort of basic core of the original people…

through the various sort of transformations

as the sort of monster has grown.

When he was told what the budget was, how low it was,

Jim said, at that moment, he realised

he wasn't going to be making a Hollywood film,

he would be making an underground film

more in the line of Warhol and Derek Jarman.

Power.

I don't create it, I own it.

Three people that wanted to play the roles were Mick Jagger,

Lou Reed and, of course, David Bowie.

So, no Mick Jaggers, no Bowies.

He said, "I'm having the original cast.“

Thank you, Jim.

Wasn't he wise?

I heard about Rocky through Joel Thurm,

who was the casting director, who had asked me,

would I be interested maybe in coming to LA

and doing the production at the Roxy?

And I said I didn't really want to do stage at that point.

But if there's ever a movie, please come to me

and talk to me about playing a character in it.

Brad Majors.

- This is my fiancée Janet "Veiss." - Weiss.

Weiss.

The role, I think it could have been custom-made for Barry.

I mean, you need a good singer, you need a great-looking guy,

you needed someone who looks very all-American.

He was perfect for it, I mean, in every possible way.

And Susan came about all indirectly,

because I knew that Susan wanted to do the project.

Joel was very sneaky,

because Susan, who was a friend of mine at the time,

he was interested in her to play Janet.

Her agents did not want her to audition for the piece,

and I found a way to get around it that was very simple.

When Barry was coming in for his audition,

I said, ♪ust bring Susan."

And I went by just to say hi, and they were like,

"Oh, my gosh! What a good idea!

"Why don't you… Would you read Janet?"

I'm on stage, reading with Barry,

and then I stop in the middle. I say, "Wait a minute.

"Why is this 30-year-old balding man reading with you

"when we have a lovely woman?

"Susan, can you do me a favour and can you please read with Barry?"

So, in other words, she wasn't auditioning.

She was helping me read an actor.

Oh, Brad, wasn't it wonderful?

Didn't Betty look radiantly beautiful?

Oh, I can't believe it. An hour ago, she was plain old Betty Munroe,

and now…

now she's Mrs Ralph Hapschatt.

Janet at that time felt, to me,

like a satire of every ingénue I'd ever played.

You keep your hands to yourself, and you talk to me.

You know, somebody who's kind of wide-eyed and sweet,

but underneath is a bitch and, you know, is just waiting to be liberated.

And so, I read it.

What's happening here?

Where's Brad?

Where's anybody?!

When Susan started reading, Jim Sharman said, "Who is she?"

Because, you know, Susan is just, as we know, she's extraordinary.

In the words of the song, she had Bette Davis eyes.

Those saucer eyes could wipe everybody off the screen.

And sometimes did.

I remember standing up on this little stage,

and I thought the focus was gonna be on me.

And apparently…

who they were really looking at was Susan,

as I, in their minds - and I didn't know it -

already had the job.

And Joel was just sort of suckering me in.

And the next thing I knew, I was going off to be in this film.

And of course, one of the nicest things about that

is Susan Sarandon and Barry Bostwick came across from America

into a world which we already inhabited.

Which was fantastic, because…

that's exactly what was supposed to happen.

And it couldn't have been more truthful and more obvious.

And rehearsing was a dream, because we all knew what we were doing.

And they came in, you know, the green virgins,

and it was perfect.

I think it's very good for the film,

because we were strangers in a strange land, you know?

In a very strange land.

Oh, come on, Brad, admit it.

You liked it, didn't you?

There's no crime in giving yourself over to pleasure.

Well, we'd found this house in Bray called Oakley Court,

and it's been used over the years for Hammer horror films.

Hammer being the British horror movie company,

sort of like a Roger Corman equivalent.

But the advantage of that was,

right next door was Bray Studios,

which was quite small,

only half a dozen sound stages.

I wanted to make it as an homage to Hammer horror,

and so, we chose that studio to do it in.

But it wasn't the best-equipped studio,

and we gave ourselves a few problems there.

Great Scott!

I think the consequences of that

were that there are elements in the film where it's like a B-movie.

And sometimes that's deliberate.

For instance, the special effects people were shocked when I said,

"No, the special effects are too good.

"They've got to be really bad."

Some people think that's bad film-making,

but actually it's deliberate.

Also, with the Transylvanians,

I didn't want people who necessarily were like

a sort of Broadway chorus translated to film.

And so, the fact that they don't dance in synchronicity,

but they actually dance like people might dance at a party.

Many things that people took to be errors,

they were part of subverting the form.

But there are other times, because we were actually

on a B-picture budget and a B-picture schedule,

that it's genuinely a B-picture,

but I can't tell you which were which.

I mean, life is full of contradictions,

and so is the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

I'm really an old-fashioned girl.

I like a beginning, a middle and an end, you know?

I think that's all it is, really, is an action story.

It's like Saturday-morning pictures. In fact, the filming here has,

from time to time, especially in the laboratory,

got very like Saturday-morning pictures. It was really good.

♪ It's astounding

♪ Time is fleeting

♪ Madness takes its toll… ♪

The biggest change was that "Time Warp"

used to come after "Sweet Transvestite",

and when we did the movie, we decided to put it first.

The nice thing about that is, there's that party music

as Brad and Janet get into the house and into the lives of these people,

and it delays Frank's entrance.

And that delay is good,

because holding that back for another five minutes

is well worth it, really. Adds to the tension.

♪ And the void would be calling

♪ Let's do the Time Warp again

♪ Let's do the Time Warp again… ♪

It's just a jump to the left.

♪ And then a step to the ri-i-i-i-ight… ♪

l certainly did have the idea of it being

more of a dark fairy-tale than the stage version.

The show is a rock-and-roll show, and the film is a surreal dream.

And I wanted to take the audience into a different world

where ambiguity was the norm, not the exception.

It's a sort of 1970s version of The Wizard of Oz.

♪ It's so dreamy

♪ Oh, fantasy, free me

♪ So you can't see me… ♪

One thing we always wanted

was that, even though it went to the big screen,

it never lost the intimacy of the play.

I think, somehow, we managed to make it on-budget.

It was tough. It was very tough. There were all sorts of pitfalls.

♪ Like you're under sedation

♪ Let's do the Time Warp again… ♪

The movie was a six-week shoot.

To do a musical in six weeks, unheard of.

We just worked our asses off.

I mean, there's even photos of Richard on the floor asleep.

It was great but exhausting. It was very hard work.

♪ He had a pick-up truck…

You know, we were all very young,

and it was all kind of dangerous.

We were working by the seat of our pants, really, to get this done.

♪ Let's do the Time Warp again… ♪

It was a very low-budget film.

When I got to London, I didn't have anywhere to stay,

and I kept moving every two or three days.

I would take my birth-control pills and my toothbrush,

and I would go into a new apartment, like, every few days.

It was quick. I was wet and miserable most of the time.

But I remember the whole experience being fun.

There was something about not having money.

And it was so humble and added to the edginess of it,

because it kept the style of what the theatre presented.

At the time, we were all still so astonished to be filming it at all.

And I loved every minute of it.

♪ Let's do the Time Warp again. ♪

Eddie!

Do you remember meeting Meat Loaf?

I thought he was marvellous in the part.

He got it, and, boy, could he sing it.

Whoo!

♪ Whatever happened to Saturday night?

♪ When you dressed up sharp and you felt all right

♪ It don't seem the same since cosmic light

♪ Came into my life, I thought I was divine… ♪

A charming Texan chubster

with the voice of an angel

and the power of a jet taking off.

He is someone that lifted the roof off when he started singing.

♪ Hot patootie, bless my soul

♪ Really love that rock-and-roll

♪ Hot patootie, bless my soul

♪ I really love that rock-and-roll

Meat Loaf plays the rockabilly reject monster,

and to furnish multiple monsters in one film

and to talk about the shifting desires that people have for certain types

shows us how fickle our kind of relationship to attractiveness is.

How quickly do we move on from the one thing that we think we love

to this perfectly-sculpted shinier version of that?

♪ My head, it used to swim from the perfume I smelled

♪ My hands kinda fumbled with her white plastic belt

I felt a psychic connection with Meat Loaf right away.

Felt like I was looking at an older version of myself.

I was feeling kind of a time warp,

and I was seeing the possibilities. Like, "I could do that."

That fellow looks like he could be my big brother

or my father or something.

Felt like he was in my hillbilly family tree.

I was like, "That guy is a big boy. He's a big rocker."

- ♪ Hot patootie - ♪ Hot patootie, bless my soul

♪ I really love that rock-and-roll. ♪

I'll never forget him.

We were rehearsing, and I go in this day,

and there's this guy, this redneck Texan,

and he said to me, "Hi, hon."

And I thought, "God, who's that?

"Ghastly."

He'd done the show in LA, but I'd never met him before.

And this Texan, the Loaf, sang.

And I thought, "Oh, my God.“

It was astonishing, that voice.

And then, he came out to me on the set and told me,

"I was voted the best kisser in my high school in Texas."

I said, “Really?"

I said, "Well, we'll have to try that."

So, he proceeded.

And I said, "Mm…

"Well, they were right.

"You obviously were the best kisser in your high school in Texas."

I think I was nine or ten

when my big sister took me to see Rocky Horror Picture Show.

I think I was a little too young.

I was definitely the youngest person in the audience,

but it was a trip.

I remember going in, and it was a party atmosphere,

and everyone was in costume.

And I thought, "This is wild.“

And right from the beginning of the movie,

with the wedding scene, I remember people were throwing rice,

and it was like we were in a wedding party.

And everyone was just laughing and having such a good time.

And I remember thinking, "Everyone's already seen this movie,"

because everyone's doing stuff that is, like,

they couldn't do it if they didn't know what the next line was in the movie.

So, I just remember being just as amazed by the audience

as I was by the movie itself, and, uh…

…I knew I was experiencing something special.

Also, no-one was sitting down.

It was like a rock concert.

People were standing up almost the whole way through,

and there was a lot of joy and abandon in that room.

What does it do for you?

It… It just gets me excited every week.

It's just something I just gotta go every week and do it.

I love that mixture of rock-and-roll and theatre.

I was taking it in.

I was definitely feeling the rock, and I was dancing around, jumping around.

Definitely felt like we're breaking the rules here.

There are some norms being shattered,

and there's some realities being bent and twisted,

and felt, like, naughty.

There's a few events in my childhood

where I felt like the course of my life had changed,

and that was one of 'em.

Seeing the possibilities of rock-and-roll music on an audience

and that kind of audience participation

was a major fuse that was lit.

I mean, these songs,

they tickle the soul.

♪ Touch-a, touch-a, touch-a, touch me

♪ I wanna be dirty. ♪

♪ I was feeling done in

♪ Couldn't win… ♪

I was very happy with the whole cast of the film,

but it was only when we started filming

and I saw Susan Sarandon through the camera

when I realised what a career that was going to be.

♪ Into heavy petting

♪ It only leads to trouble and… ♪

Janet was trying to be loyal to her idiot boyfriend

and at the same time open to feeling things that she hadn't felt,

experiencing things she hadn't done before

and uncovering a deep sexuality.

- ♪ More, more, more! - ♪ I'll put up no resistance… ♪

I think the movie's about saying yes,

to life and to everything.

♪ I've got an itch to scratch

♪ I need assistance

♪ Touch-a, touch-a, touch-a, touch me

♪ I wanna be dirty… ♪

The character of Janet and her sexual liberation,

in many respects, it's just about a woman who's just coming to terms

with being allowed to have sexual energy, to have sexual desires.

♪ While you pose… ♪

And I think that that was an important message in the 1970s,

and it coincided with that era of women's liberation,

especially in the wake of the right to choose, and reproductive rights.

It was a way of acknowledging, like, wow,

there have been so many generations of women

who've repressed who they are sexually, regardless of sexuality,

and Rocky Horror allowed women

to imagine what it would be like to be an active sexual subject.

♪ Touch-a, touch-a, touch-a, touch me!

-♪ Oh, I wanna be dirty… ♪ -"Touch-A, Touch Me."

Peter, of course, was just the shyest, quietest.

And I think that was traumatising for him

to have to do that scene with me.

You know, I really had to invite him to touch-a, touch-a, touch me,

because he was very nervous,

and clearly this was something

that was outside his previous experience.

♪ Creature of the night

♪ Creature of the night. ♪

I'm not an actor by any means,

but I just tried to sort of put whatever I could

into it at the time, that's all.

I was just sort of told, "Do this and do that,"

and if I had to look miserable, I did as best I could

to sort of look strained and ghastly.

- You know, whatever I had to do. - Janet!

- Dr Scott! - Janet!

- Brad! - Rocky!

Imagine, he'd never acted before,

and also he was naked the whole time, except for one moment in bandages.

He was magnificent!

He was the only man with muscles

in the whole of the United Kingdom, I might add.

I was quite insecure about my talents and abilities, you know?

Now it turns out I did okay.

All sort of a bit of a mystery, really.

There was a lot of joy in doing the show,

and while the film was a tough shoot - which it was -

there was still a kind of joy.

The people doing it relished it,

and some of that relish translated to the audience.

The old classic thing of, you know,

if you enjoy what you're doing, other people will enjoy watching it.

I don't know how you got hold of this.

-How did you get hold of this? -Kimi had it

- in a drawer somewhere. - Good heavens to Murgatroyd.

Here we are.

"How I loved those B-movies.

"In the '50s, low-budget films were in a class of their own.

♪ust how many were made is inestimable.

" Some dreadful, some excellent, but most had one thing in common -

"the style of their acting.

"Ingredients - direct action, bad casting, black and white values,

"comic strip dialogue… and 100% belief.“

Oh, my goodness me! I was far more intelligent than I thought.

Well, that's what I've been saying.

The last thing was, there's all these comments from "I'm Going Home."

I don't know if you want to read them, or shall I read a couple to you?

-Well, go on, you read them. -Okay.

So, "I played this at my husband's funeral.

"This movie meant a lot to us, but this song took on new meaning when he died.

"It gave me good memories and broke my heart all at the same time.“

I mean, “I love this song so much. Actually, the whole movie,

“but the scene gets me in the feels,

- "and I cry every time I see it.“ - Heavens.

"My mum and I used to watch the movie together, during Halloween.

“Ever since I was 14, it was tradition.

"Sadly, she passed away in January of this year,

"and I miss her more than words can express."

Oh, dear. You're going to get me going in a moment.

"This song reminds me of a simpler time,

"of how I wish I could go back home."

I mean, it's a lot of…

This is the reason I wanted to make the documentary,

because when you read the comments, it goes on for pages and pages.

-Good heavens. -So, that's why I was like,

this kind of needs to be addressed and talked about,

because it's really touching.

So, I was wondering, I mean, obviously, you know, they go on for days.

Can we watch the "I'm Going Home" together?

- If you want to. - I'd like to.

I'd like to, 'cause there's some moments in it which are…

[Music plays - "I'm Going Home"

It's such a beautiful song.

And Tim just sings the crap out of it.

♪ On the day I went away

♪ Goodbye… ♪

And you almost like him

by the end of the song.

And you forget what a horrendous personality he has been

and how he's ruined people's lives.

And then, all of a sudden, he's trying to…

pull on your heartstrings.

And he does such a good job of that.

♪ I may

♪ 'Cause I've seen

♪ Oh

♪ Blue skies

♪ Through the tears… ♪

I knew it was a goo die because it's the most vulnerable he ever is.

♪ And I realise… ♪

I really looked forward to shooting it

because I knew it was such a good song

and I wanted to do it right, do it justice.

I was aware of the responsibility of that,

and I loved doing it.

♪ Like I'm outside in the rain

♪ Wheeling… ♪

I do think that's the moment

that elicits the most sympathy and understanding for Frank-N-Furter.

And I believe it's a moment that lots of people can share,

where things have spun out of control

but you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You're going home. You're gonna go back to what's closest to your heart.

♪ 'Cause I've seen

♪ Oh

♪ Blue skies

♪ Through the tears

♪ In my eyes… ♪

The irony of that song is that he's not going home,

that he's about to die.

And then, there's an element to that song

where he's begging for his life and he's begging for more,

just to stay alive for a few more magical moments.

And I think we can all relate to that.

'Cause life is so short and fleeting and beautiful.

You want it to go on forever.

♪ I'm going home

♪ I'm going

♪ Home. ♪

On the last day of the shoot…

"Finish! It's a wrap!"

"It's over."

And I'm leaving, and Jim Sharman said,

"Pat, just a moment. Can I talk to you for a minute?"

I said, "Mm, yeah." You know, I want to go home.

And he said, "So, I have this idea."

ln a dream, I imagined Pat Quinn's lips

singing it to Richard's very androgynous voice

to create that strange world.

♪ Michael Rennie was ill

♪ The day the earth stood still

♪ But he told us where we stand

So, they said, "What we're going to do is,

"we're going to black out your face completely."

And they put a cloth over the camera

and a little cutout thing focused on just the mouth.

♪ Then something went wrong… ♪

But when you sing, even though you're told to be still,

your head moves a bit.

So, the mouth kept going out of focus.

So, they put my head in the clamp

and screwed it with flaps on the side.

Couldn't move.

So, I'm doing that,

and at the time, my husband kept ringing and asking for a divorce.

And I said, "I'm sorry. Tell him I can't do a divorce today.

"I'm clamped."

♪ Double feature

-♪ Doctor X… ♪ -We'd done the movie,

and then, in the beginning of the next year, '75,

we went to the Belasco, opened and closed.

There was a…

a snobbery that went on between New York and Los Angeles.

The fact that we were coming from LA,

that was held against us.

Anything that came out of LA shouldn't be on Broadway.

Los Angeles was seen as bling-y

and ephemeral and cheap and tacky and tawdry.

And I had taken a full-page ad in Billboard that said,

"Give our regards to Broadway

"and tell them that Rocky is on its way."

They hated it.

They hated that, they hated me.

He said, "Look out, New York. Tell 'em Rocky is coming."

You know, blah, blah, blah. "Here's the hit from London and LA."

And I think they said, "Well, we're here to tell you that it isn't, you see?

"How dare you? How dare you have the temerity to tell us it's a hit.

"Because that's what we… that's what we decide.

“And we're here to tell you it isn't."

Which was a great shame. It was a good show.

We didn't have a really good chance going in.

I think we ran 40 days. We could have closed the first night.

The first time the reviews came out,

there was no chance of overriding the reviews.

It was over.

When the play closed in Manhattan…

it was like somebody had let all the air out of a balloon.

It sucked all the energy out of me. I know that.

I remember we were standing on 44th Street.

I was outside my hotel

and opposite the hotel where Tim was staying.

And I said, "Well, I guess that's it, really."

I said, "But it's been a great ride for three years, hasn't it?"

He went, "Yep, absolutely. It's been a great ride for three years."

And that was kind of it.

We completed the film,

and I presented it to the marketing and sales department

of 20th Century Fox.

Maybe 100 people.

The film ended.

Silence.

A deafening silence.

And then, slowly… each person would get up.

Nobody said anything to me.

When this film was first released, it was a flop.

The film was released in the United States

in September of 1975

and was quickly withdrawn before the end of October.

It opened and shut like a door.

It was enormously disappointing.

The show was a gigantic hit, and then the movie comes out

and it flopped. It just didn't make any sense.

You know, you put so much into something.

You think that an audience is going to get it immediately

and embrace it and the film will make zillions.

I was miserable that the film was a flop.

I took it quite personally.

Which is arrogant of me, but…

…I did.

Films at that time at the studios,

they would preview it,

and they even went as far as having the audience fill out cards.

And we previewed in Santa Barbara.

Santa Barbara is an interesting place

in that it's a heavy college town

and a heavy sort of wealthy, retired, older crowd.

That combination came to see Rocky Horror.

Halfway through the film,

we had lost half the audience.

The only executive at that time

that came to see the preview was Tim Deegan,

who was a young executive at 20th Century Fox.

By the end of the film, Tim and I,

despondent, obviously, really down,

went and sat on a curb outside of the theatre,

trying to figure out what to do next.

And people started coming up with us.

The college-aged kids came up to us

and said really encouraging, positive things,

which let us know…

we had a film…for an audience.

We had to find that audience.

Tim Deegan had a friend in New York

who was an exhibitor,

and between the two of them, they suggested,

why don't we run the film at midnight?

It can't hurt anybody at that point.

Fox will go along with it.

"That might be the audience that'll come to see it.

"Let's try it."

The midnight screening at the Waverly took place

on April Fool's Day - April 1st, 1976.

I remember it also opened in Austin,

so Tim and I split the two areas.

He would call New York to see how it was doing,

and I would call Austin, Texas.

And I'd get a hold of the manager.

And I said, "I'm gonna call you every Monday."

About the third call, I said, "How's it doing?"

He said, "About 50 people."

I said, "50 people?"

He said, "Yeah, but what's interesting,

"it's the same 50 people every week.“

Barn.

We want Rocky! We want Rocky!

There was an audience that was interested in it

and wanted to see it.

We just had to take our time to get to it.

Not by advertising it.

Word of mouth. Show it.

If that audience is out there, if we could keep the film going

at whatever locations we could get,

the audience could find the film.

It worked the other way, that the audience found it

and embraced it

and made it into something completely different.

- It's great! It's just different! - It's great!

It's excellent!

It's different than any other movie I've ever seen.

There was a great excitement.

There was energy in the air of the theatre,

outside the theatre, surrounding the theatre.

Everything to do with Rocky Horror was fresh, new, innovative.

It was a different crowd, very special.

Not only enjoying the film,

but enjoying the other people that were coming to the film.

That was growing.

That was a place for them to go

to find people like they were

and enjoying the things that they liked.

This is an excellent movie. It really is.

- It's a cult film. - And we're all quite normal, really.

I mean, to imagine that these people

were having that kind of experience

and that kind of fun watching a film

is unbelievable,

because there's nothing else like it.

I think the movie is a total sexual experience

that I'd like to relive and relive and relive.

By the end of 1978,

there were 50 prints in circulation,

and then it escalated from there.

And after the first year, I was talking to one of the owners,

and I thought, "Well, gee, this picture just can't go on this long.

"We've got to be looking for something else to come in and take its place."

And, boy, I'll admit, I was absolutely wrong. It kept on going.

It built, and it's bigger than it ever was,

to the point where we're turning away between 150 to 200 people

on every performance.

Amer} At one point, in Los Angeles,

the Tiffany Theatre was running Rocky Horror.

They were running it at midnight, 2:00 in the morning

and 4:00 in the morning, sometimes.

So, even though we were at these odd times,

they were still getting their three showings out of it.

Everybody was amazed at that kind of success.

We could not have sustained an audience

and given them what they wanted -

the experience - running during the day.

We couldn't have done it with normal… normal showings.

It's the only movie I've ever heard of, too, with a fan club.

How did it come to be a cult classic, do you think?

I have no idea. I wish I did know. I wish…

I'm sure a lot of people wish they did know.

The development of the cult and the rituals around the film

were a kind of snowball effect that picked up velocity.

The way that the story goes is that

it was somewhere around Labour Day of 1976

that the shout-outs began.

One of the legends is, a guy named Lou Farese Jr shouted at the screen

when Janet was getting out of the car and shielding her head with a newspaper.

"Buy an umbrella, you cheap bitch!“

And then, other people began to contribute their shout-outs,

and if it was funny, it stuck.

Knew I should have gotten that spare tire fixed.

Asshole!

So, a second script began to be written

and superimposed over the original script.

What followed from that, then, were costumes.

I'm Dori Hartley, and I'm dressed as Frank.

Occasionally, I am Frank.

Notably for Halloween performances of Rocky at first,

and then just every time it was being shown.

Then you had the introduction of props.

We have the toilet paper. Newspaper here.

A flash-light. Rice.

A squirt-gun. Toast.

So, people would come up with rice for the wedding scene,

and squirt-guns for when it was raining,

and lighters where there's a light over at the Frankenstein place,

which were quickly barred from many locations.

Now, we have a special warning from the management tonight.

No lit candles, and no throwing of food at the screen, understand?

Get on with the show!

Hey, this is the fucking show, buddy!

And if you don't like it, go see the movie at Staten Island!

From there, then we get the introduction

of the shadow cast in 1977,

which began in New York at the 8th Street Playhouse,

which is also the birth of the Rocky Horror Fan Club

but then began to spread out.

So, it's this snowball effect,

which goes from shout-outs to costumes

to props to the shadow cast.

Having turned theatres in to haunted cinemas,

the notion of turning cinemas into theatres

with people throwing things and talking back

struck me as a pretty good idea.

It's interesting that the Rocky Horror Show,

from the absolute first performance,

was performed in front of a screen.

And so, we now had the audience perform Rocky Horror

in front of a screen which is showing Rocky Horror.

Once the participation started,

without us doing anything about it,

it was spreading to the other theatres in other cities.

Out of Austin, out of New York, Chicago.

Once it started to happen, it steam-rolled.

Was there a script originally written to tell the audience what to do?

-Oh, no, no. That all… -That all evolved.

Yeah, that just all evolved.

When you're thinking about the 1970s,

we're pre-social media. There's no internet. There's no TikTok.

So, how did these things go from place to place?

What happened is that somebody would visit New York City and see a midnight showing

and then take it back with them to someplace else.

Also in 1977, you have the beginning of the fan club,

which had a newsletter that was associated with it,

which became a way to communicate with lots of different Rocky fans.

So it's this organic process, almost rhizomatic,

of spreading out from place to place, with New York as the epicentre

and then spreading across the country,

and then from there to other countries.

The reason that I like Rocky Horror is my brother Sal,

who's president of the fan club,

brought me to it two years ago, to the Waverly.

So, I just enjoyed it, and I decided that I had to be a part of this

and that I wanted to dress up as Magenta.

My brother, Sal, came home to our mother's home

and he said, "I saw this amazing movie."

He was so animated and so passionate about this film,

and he said to me, “Don't worry, I'll take you.

"I will get you in the city. We'll get you there."

Because now I wanted to see it.

When I first walked into the Village,

there was a lot of excitement in the air,

and I really didn't know what I was gonna see.

Tim Curry turning around in that elevator,

that image, that make-up, the lips was like…

I became alive.

It just preaches a lot to me.

It preaches a lot of liberation and freedom

and happiness and joy and love.

And the whole cult has become a phenomenon

of love amongst ourselves, you know?

Rocky allowed you that freedom to live out your dreams.

It allowed you to be crazy and wild and sexy.

I feel very uncomfortable in this outfit.

Would you mind taking this microphone here?

I think Sal is getting…

Sal ate, drank and slept Rocky Horror.

And in an era where it was dangerous to be gay,

he was openly and proudly gay.

He made no excuses for who he was or what he was doing.

So, it was never an accident

that he was going to start

the audience participation to this film and keep it going.

This looks like a kind of special crowd of people, though.

- Who are they? - It's a community, you know?

It's a community of people who all come together.

They don't dream it any more, they be it,

-which is what the movie says. -Yeah!

It was organic how it happened,

and Sal was sort of like the big papa.

I mean, he really was very parental, and it was like I found my tribe

and I belonged to some place.

And I was a runaway, so I needed to belong.

I had survived a lot of sexual abuse when I was a kid,

so I ran away from home and…

and I was on the streets, pulling tricks on the street.

I was making my way no matter how I had…

I just didn't want to go home, 'cause home was not good.

It was the '80s, it was AIDS, and it was rampant.

And I'm, today, healthy. I'm HIV-negative.

And I credit a lot of that to Rocky, because, you know, I was safe.

I was locked in a theatre from 10:00 till 4:00 in the morning

every Friday and Saturday night,

whereas I could have been doing all sorts of shit.

And then we would all leave there at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning

and go to a diner, and we would fill up a diner.

And then, we'd always end on the sunrise.

Like, we would go home at 6:00 in the morning.

Five days a week, I'm a nurse,

and two nights a week, I'm a star, and it levels out my life.

I'm so thankful that we…

Like, what a wonderful way to…

to grow up, you know?

And I grew up in there. It was so beautiful.

It's good for people to come and be able to do this

-instead of anything else. -Yeah!

It's very good. It's good, right?!

It's good!

Many young queer folks used Rocky Horror

as a place of belonging in a suburban space

that demanded they perform a more normal front.

And Rocky Horror was the gateway

for many of them, for many of us,

to find people with whom we could grow,

to find people we could trust,

in and a midst our most abject fears.

You know, people talk about dancing like nobody's watching

and I think that that's really the vibe

that you get at a Rocky Horror screening.

And not just that nobody's watching,

but that everybody else is dancing along with you, and you all don't really care.

I'd just like to say thank you very much for coming tonight,

and, uh…

…thank you for all being completely insane.

When was your first experience seeing it with a crowd?

I think… I suppose the first time was seeing it at Long Island.

There was a convention in a big hall, and there were,

I would think, about at least a thousand people there.

And we all went out on stage and did a Q&A with the audience.

And then, they showed the movie on a big stage,

and there was a lot of space in front of it.

And a girl called Dori Hartley,

who was a Frank-N-Furter impersonator,

and when it got to that "I'm Going Home" moment…

..she looked exactly like him. The make-up, perfect.

And she sat on the front of the stage, and someone had put a spotlight on her.

And it was astonishing, because there was the movie up there

with Tim singing “I'm Going Home"

and doing this with the eye make-up.

And there's a real live person in a bright spotlight

doing the same movements.

And her silhouette

was exactly the same size as Frank-N-Furter.

And the audience was singing the refrains.

And you're going, "This is theatre at its very best."

You couldn't… We couldn't have…

rehearsed and organised this.

This is a spontaneous moment

where live theatre and audience -

live audience and cinema - have come together like that,

in a way that I've never seen before.

It was quite remarkable.

[Music - "Rose Tint My World"

think for the shadow cast, it's almost like their own process

of becoming who they want to be, or who they desired they could be.

♪ It was great when it all began… ♪

It's not to say that everyone in the shadow cast

has a hidden or secret identity,

but I think that what the film opens

is a way of imagining our desires as something

that we should pursue and not repress, and that message speaks very loudly,

especially to American audiences

who've always kind of struggled with that aspect

of their own desires, their own compulsions,

and stretching beyond what's normal.

♪ Keeps me safe from my trouble and pain… ♪

New York City, let me hear you fucking scream!

Now we have to talk about a problem.

It's the fact that there's way too many fucking virgins in this audience!

What we mean by a virgin here

is that if you've never seen this movie on the great white screen,

now that's a virgin.

If you've seen this movie on DVD, VHS, Betamax,

if you had really weird parents, Netflix, Hulu,

streamed it online, it's masturbation, all right?

And it doesn't count for shit.

You need to see this movie in a theatre, with a cast,

and one hell of a motherfucking audience!

♪ It's beyond me… ♪

I think 19-year-old me knew who I was

but didn't think I could publicly be all of that.

And so, to be able to build a foundation of confidence

and self-courage to then go into more public spaces

and be really firm about like, "No, this is what I go by,

“and this is how you will refer to me," is so incredibly important.

♪ I feel sexy… ♪

We are going on seven years now

since Flustered Mustard started up.

Being from Missouri, we actually target a lot of really conservative small towns.

And in a town that may see 20 people on a Saturday night,

you've got 500 people driving in from hours away.

When we find those small towns,

it's not like there's just a huge crop of LGBTQ I A people

that are just waiting at the door, waiting to bust in.

You see people coming in in Trump shirts.

And all of a sudden, you see the rainbow shirts.

And then, you'll see them a couple months later and they'll be in fishnets.

And then you'll see the manager of the theatre

in a maid outfit behind the concession stand.

I mean, it's one of those things where it's infectious.

It grows on you. It absolutely does.

♪ His lust is so sincere. ♪

The fact that people dress up,

is it because that society bothers them and they want to be something they're not?

…don't think they want to be something they're not.

I think they want to be something…

that perhaps they are. Just the opposite.

I have this belief that sexually, male and female,

we're all on a continuum.

And at one end of it is hardwired female.

At the other end of it, hardwired is male.

And most of us fall on this continuum.

And I think many, many people have that side to their nature

which they don't reveal to the world.

And I don't know whether that's healthy, but Rocky allowed other people to feel,

“Oh, fuck me. I'm… I'm a sweet transvestite as well.

"I… Get out of my way."

I mean, you would hope at this point in world history

that something like Rocky would be a relic.

You have to turn to your child and explain,

well, people used to be really afraid of a woman in a suit,

or a man in a dress,

or someone entering a room

and professing that they are somewhere between two genders.

I don't think any of them knew

that they were making that kind of film.

But what they were creating…

was just right.

And that's why it's here today.

That's why we'll run every weekend

at two- to three-hundred theatres.

And then, on Halloween,

or in the month of October,

we'll be at everything from a cemetery,

on a wall of a mortuary,

to drive-in theatres.

Wherever they can get a play date,

Rocky Horror will be there.

Who knows? It might finish tomorrow.

But it may go on for the next 30, 40 years.

I have great sympathy with the general public if it does so.

But quite frankly, it's a…

…It's a wonderful pension scheme.

It clearly has to be considered

the major cult movie of all time.

But…

you don't make cults. Audiences make cults.

Nowhere else would I go like this. Are you kidding?

- Really!

Wouldn't be safe anywhere else, you know?

Films either reinforce the status quo or challenge it.

The ones that challenge it are considered political.

But the Rocky Horror Show is definitely challenging, so it's a political film.

I think that Rocky is about dropping what you're told you have to be,

who everyone else thinks you are, your environment, your religion,

all the brainwashing that goes into the socialisation process.

What is a man? What is a boy?

What do women want? What's funny? What's not?

At that point, when you're trying to figure things out,

you could go to some place where there are a lot of people

that are trying to figure that out.

You can be there, and you can be accepted for who you are.

It has an innocence to it,

because all of those things are so natural.

One doesn't choose one's sexuality.

One doesn't choose the colour of their skin.

All of these things are celebrated in it.

Several people have told me

that it helped them to understand their sexuality.

I think that's important.

Perhaps it is more relevant now.

Gender has become a political football,

which is really just a kind of…

global ignorance.

Rocky took it to the audience.

Rocky showed it to the audience and said, "Here it is.

"This is what it is. What are you gonna do about it?"

You can't do anything about it, because it is what it is.

And I'm so proud of your dad for doing that,

because I think the world would be a different place without Rocky.

I mean he was just being artistic, creative,

and, you know, writing those wonderful songs.

But actually, it's had a real impact

on the world, on our culture.

Well, the truth of the matter is, of course, we all are freaks aren't we?

There is no norm. There is no standard.

God made us in different ways… thankfully.

I always felt that I was living in no man's land.

I never felt that I belonged anywhere, and I was in no man's land.

I was simply there with loads of other people.

One of the things about Rocky, I think,

is that those people who are marginalised,

those people who are on the fringes and feel lonely,

they come together.

Um, and it, um…

it gives them a place where they feel they're…

they're not alone, basically.

-This is making me feel very… -I mean, that must be…

I'm getting very emotional about this. I don't…

It's not my…

There we go. Thank you.

-It's not your what? -Well…

It's not… I'm not generally like this.

-Oh, Dad. You are, from time to time. -No, no, no.

Stop it.

It's part of you, right?

Self-reflection is gonna bring that kind of emotion out.

Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it?

It's fascinating, and you do the best you can,

and you muddle through.

But, you know, if I hadn't been…

if I hadn't been the way I was, you know,

Frank-N-Furter would never have…

-come to life. -Right.

There would never be a Frank-N-Furter.

There would never be a Rocky Horror Show.

So, once again, you know, out of adversity comes something good.

Turn it to your own advantage.

So, what does Rocky mean to you now?

I remember what somebody once said to me,

"It doesn't matter what you think about Rocky Horror any more, Richard,

"'cause it's not yours."

And I thought, "Oh, actually, in many ways, that's absolutely true.

He said, "It belongs to us, not to you."

♪ I've done a lot

♪ God, knows I've tried

♪ To find the truth

♪ Well, I've even lied

♪ But all I know

♪ Is down inside

♪ I'm bleeding

♪ And superheroes

♪ Come to feast

♪ To taste the flesh, not yet deceased

♪ But all I know

♪ Is still the beast

♪ Is feeding

♪ Oh, oh-oh-oh

♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh

♪ Oh, oh-oh-oh

♪ Oh, oh-oh-oh

♪ And crawling on the planet's face

♪ Some insects called the human race

♪ Lost in time and lost in space

♪ And meaning. ♪

Get down. I'm a bad motherfucker!