Original subtitles

I had no doubt whatsoever about taking the role.

It was the central character — the lead character in the family —

which was very important for me at that time.

I remember saying, when we went to the read with Nick Lyndhurst

and Lennard Pearce, who played Grandad...

Nick and I and Lennard went for a drink when we knew we'd got the part,

and I said to them then, "This is a very unusual script, in my estimation.

"It's not a sit—com as such, I think it's a situation drama."

I think that's what happened to the piece.

I could see that it wasn't just joke, joke, joke, which most sit—coms are.

This was so different because it was...

story led,

and the humour came out of the characters and the story,

which was quite unusual at that time for comedy.

Some of the hierarchy, not all, was against casting me

because I'd been playing such hapless characters

and was known for it, if you like.

Never played a... Really I'd never played a leading role or carried a series,

and I believe that they didn't think I had the range as an actor

to fulfil the aspirations of the lead role in this new series —

to get it off the ground.

One or two people had thrown their hat in the ring against casting me.

But... Ray Butt in his er...

good auspices, bless him. He was the director.

The director I was working with at the time was Sidney Lotterby.

We'd been doing "Open All Hours".

And with his and Ray Butt's conviction that they knew that I had the range,

that I was an actor whose talents had not been explored,

they pushed for me and that finally swayed the vote.

The casting vote would have been with the director, Ray Butt.

And he had from behind him...

He had people from the top floor and he had John Sullivan

all saying, "Hmmm."

"He's not right, that David Jason. Never do it. Can't do it."

Ray stuck to his guns and the rest is history, really.

The thing that makes Derek Trotter tick...

is John Sullivan's script, to start with.

Obviously that's the genius behind it. That's the beginning.

I always used to say that...

John makes the bullets and I just fire them, really.

The strength of the character that we developed...

Because it was once John had seen where I was taking the character,

he then started to write for those strengths — for all of the characters.

And what he eventually developed and put into it — and I think this is it...

He's got a heart of gold.

He's a tough steely exterior with a —

very much like John Sullivan, I suppose! — with a soft heart.

He's very emotional. Very family—orientated and driven.

And in a strange way, though people would disagree, he's a very honest man.

He's got so many good qualities.

Yes, he wheels and deals and does a bit of this, but...

he would never harm anybody.

Not unless they harmed his family or harmed him.

He's a negotiator. He'd talk his way out of trouble.

But most of it comes through John Sullivan's writing, I think.

We've extended it all the time into more and more reality,

which is the things that...

As I said originally, we got away from situation comedy into situation drama

where he sees the birth of his child, for example.

That was a really moving experience and John called on his own experience.

But to put that in a situation comedy had been unheard of at that time.

So you had to draw on tremendous...

confidence of your writer and your actor and your character

to get away with doing the opposite of what you normally do —

instead of trying to make people laugh, you're trying to make them cry.

So he's very... Derek Trotter is a very rich character,

full of all human emotions,

and we have used them all and enjoyed using them all.

I think that the way John had described working-class people —

council house people, if you like —

was quite brilliant.

If you quoted one of the series at the time, which was "Till Death Us Do Part",

Warren Mitchell's character was the bigot.

It was very funny. Warren Mitchell was brilliant.

But that was a family at war, really. A family at anger.

Whereas what John tried to tune into was a huge mixture of...

Like real people are.

They cry, they laugh, they take the mickey out of each other,

they go on trips, they go down the pub.

One of the great things that john did — and I wish they'd taken note in "EastEnders"...

is that the pub is the central meeting place

and it's full of very amusing characters and I'm sure they still are today.

But in some series, you go into an East End pub and everybody's at each other's throats.

John had managed to tap into...

John had managed to tap into the reality of ordinary people.

They have a great, great sense of humour,

and that was John's great strength.

When we were working on the first series, we were all feeling our way.

We were all trying to unravel these characters,

all trying to find what made them tick,

all trying to find where the centre of the humour was.

Trying to develop everything about it.

Trying to make it better and funnier and whatever.

Some of the stage directions that john had put in were very useful,

but as time moved on, they became unnecessary.

So I think that both John and I would agree

that you don't need to... you know, teach us to suck eggs, as it were.

Because we needed all that help in the first series,

but as it moved on, we all became more confident in what we were doing,

which way our characters were going and how we would deal with scenes.

Yes. So initially it was a great help.

The great thing about the BBC in those days,

and our all working together — John and I in particular —

was that after the show the tradition was we'd all go to the BBC bar.

we'd have a few drinks, unwind,

and talk about which bits of the show went well and what bits didn't.

Sometimes we'd all go out for a meal or people would drift off.

But during that time at the bar, having a laugh and a chat,

quite a lot of things would happen around.

One of the things was that he and I were talking and he said to me,

"I understand you used to be an electrician."

I said, "Yeah, I was before I gave it all up and tried to become an actor."

He said, "My father was a bit of an electrician."

So I said, "Oh, yeah?"

He said, "He used to do everything, really.

"But when he was an electrician, he went to this house..."

He was supposed to be a plumber. Then he told me this story.

He was only telling a little story. He wasn't trying to be amusing.

"There was one funny incident," he said. "They wanted this chandelier cleaned."

"My father being ready for anything to earn a few quid, said,

"Don't worry, guv. We can do that." He was with a gang of guys.

"In this posh house, the guy said, "Are you sure you can do it?"

"'Oh, yes, we're very experienced chandelier cleaners, sir."

"And there were two chandeliers

"He went upstairs and undid the bolt and the wrong one came down.

"They were under this one and the other one fell."

Well, I was on the floor.

I was hysterical. I said, "John, you have to write it for us."

He said, "I was only telling you a story." I said, "But it's so funny!"

He said, "Do you think so?" I said, "Yeah. It's hysterical."

He said, "Oh, Ill think about that."

So during the next rehearsal, he says,

"I've got the end, but I've got no idea how to get them there."

I said, "That's up to you. You're the writer. I only said it was funny."

So, anyway, John went off...

and now it's sort of part of history — everybody remembers the chandelier.

It makes me laugh. And it all came out of anecdotes.

John Sullivan and I talking.

John and I used to enjoy each other's company,

and we would chat and stuff.

He came into rehearsals one day and we were chatting, and he said,

"I saw something that amused me last night." So I said, "What's that?"

He said, "I went down to the wine bar..." He had this local wine bar.

"..just to have a couple of drinks.

"And I'm standing there having a drink and there's a bloke at the bar.

"You know those flip—top bar things where people come in and out?" I said, "Yeah."

"He was near there. What happened was the barman came out and left the lid up,

"and this bloke went to lean and it wasn't there.

"He just recovered himself. He didn't fall

"And he looked around, expecting people to have seen him, but nobody had.

"But he was pretending he meant to do it", said John.

When John told me the scenario —

that he'd seen this guy nearly lose his balance in the wine bar —

I said to John, "I've got to fall through."

John presented it as an idea that he wanted to put into the show

and he said, "What do you think?"

And I said, "I think I've got to fall through the bar."

John said, "The guy didn't do that."

I said, "I know he didn't do that, but if I do it, I will"

So John said, "If you think that's better."

So John writes it into the script.

And...you know.

What's quite interesting about that is...

there's quite a lot of little elements in order to bring off the surprise.

There's quite a lot of interesting work.

One thing I remember, someone came up to me one day and said,

"I want to ask you a question, Mr Jason." I said, "Certainly."

He said, "You know that thing when you fell through the bar?" I said, "Yes."

He said, "Was it an accident?" I said, "What do you mean?"

He said, "Did you mean to do it?"

And that to me... I said, "Yes."

I went away and thought, "My God. If only he knew."

The construction that went into that to make that work was very interesting,

but people don't think it's work, they think like that chap did —

you just do it and it just happens.

But no, like most of these things, there's a lot of thought and construction.

well, a lot of...

A lot of experience teaches you...

I think the best comedy comes from people who have experience.

Where I had an advantage of those physical things, like falling through hatches,

is because I had a tremendous grounding in the theatre.

I did all the Brian Rix farces...

and I was on tour in plays and I did all sorts of...

One of the great things was it was very physical

I was very fortunate in being able to enjoy throwing myself through hatches.

I spent 18 months in "No Sex, Please, We're British", which was tremendously physical

Getting thrown out of doors, diving into settees and through hatches,

getting dragged up to the ceiling on chandeliers.

So it was quite natural for me.

I was fortunate in that it comes to me quite easily.

You have to agree it was collaborative. It always is in anything I do.

You collaborate with people —

with the director, the writer and with the costume designer.

I was one of the first people to have pressed jeans.

We did it by running a stitch down the front, so they were permanently in.

Derek Trotter would think that was really cool.

John's thoughts were not quite the same,

so I had to convince him,

and he said, "If that's the way you want to go, I'll go with you."

So with the costume designer...

I said to the costume designer, "There's this guy I used to know in the East End

"and he used to wear a camel hair coat,

"beautifully—laundered shirts, wonderful neat ties,

"polished shoes you could see your face in, trousers that fitted like a glove.

"That's the way I want to go." So that's the way we went — that look.

John Sullivan decided when we got to series five, six or whatever

that the yuppies were coming in — it was all about yuppies.

So he decided he'd make Derek Trotter a yuppie.

He's got to power dress, and he had the briefcase.

So John introduced all those elements for the yuppie

and he scored brilliantly

because at that time, I think,

there was a film — with Michael Douglas, I believe,

who had these amazing braces in this film.

He was a yuppie. He was a whizkid on wall Street. I can't remember the name of it.

John introduced that,

so Derek Trotter had to wear these braces on his trousers,

and walked around showing his braces.

The genius of john Sullivan was that he never let the grass grow under his feet.

He kept on using whatever was current at the time.

That's how that power dressing business came about.

Suddenly you found Trotter in suits and ties and this big mac that did up in the front.

All of that was described by john.

The biggest delight is that it's crossing age groups.

When we were working on it, all those years ago,

that was for our generation, if you like,

but to find that young kids of 10 or 12 or whatever —

who weren't even born when the first series went out — are finding it really funny

is a great reward.

These things don't happen very often — to be in something that transcends time.

One of the qualities, I think, that makes it endearing and lasting

is that it's very Laurel and Hardy in my mind.

You can show an old Laurel and Hardy film and kids of today will find them funny.

why? Because, basically, they are funny.

Laurel and Hardy is about an unknowing fool and an knowing fool.

I think that the qualities you have in "Fools and Horses" can be very similar to that.

we're all fools.

AlL of the characters are fools.

Rodney is a fool, Derek can be a fool at times,

and Uncle Albert or Grandad are always fools.

That is its strength. We're not frightened of taking the mickey out of ourselves —

John Sullivan's not frightened of taking the mickey.

And makes the characters vulnerable,

and if they're vulnerable, then, I believe, people warm to them.

There's nothing really vulgar about them. They're just endearing.

Uncle Albert and Grandad have been the most endearing characters, I think.

Nick's Rodney is a wonderful creation —

a very, very mixed personality.

And Derek Trotter swings between the two.

Fortunately, I think John's tapped that magical quality

where it seems to be timeless,

no one gets hurt, it's not cruel,

and it's — dare I say this? — it's simple humour.

The story, the characters are not that complicated.

You know about them when you see them,

you can readily absorb them and you trust them.

That's the magic that John's managed to create.

John is able to, through comedy...

address issues that nobody else would dare to do in a situation comedy —

comedy-drama, but we call it a situation comedy.

I remember again, with fondness at the time,

very sadly, we were starting to do the series and we were out filming,

and we heard that... We knew Lennard wasn't well — who played Grandad.

Lennard Pearce wasn't well, who played Grandad.

He'd been in hospital and we were filming without him.

And someone came on the set and said unfortunately he'd died.

So we stopped filming and we all went home, and we were very, very sad.

And within the week, we came to a meeting...

and we had to discuss what we were going to do with the series.

And one or two of the bigwigs said that it was very, very sad

but we must carry on.

What we'll do is get a look-alike

and we'll carry on and have someone else play Grandad.

John Sullivan and I were absolutely appalled.

We said, "No way!"

We wouldn't do that because that would be an insult to the memory of a dear friend.

So we talked about what we were going to do and someone came up with an idea...

We needed the three generations.

And someone said maybe we could get an aunt, have a woman in it.

I said, "I'm not playing it with a woman." And he said, "Why?"

I said, "It's not that, but how can we treat a woman

"like we treat the old man?

"It's funny that I call him a daft old git and throw him in the van. It's acceptable.

"I couldn't do that to a woman." So that idea didn't go down well.

We eventually... A few people had written in

and we eventually found this wonderful chap

who eventually became Uncle Albert,

and we decided that how we would introduce him would be

that we would have a funeral for Grandad —

which was Lennard Pearce —

and in the wake afterwards one of his relations would come out of the woodwork

and it would be Uncle Albert.

So John had to write this in a week.

I said, "Is that what you want to do?" And he said, "Yes.

"I want to do it because I want...

"Nobody in a family wants anyone to die. We don't.

"And it happens in real life.

"And we've had it. We've had a bereavement. we've lost our Grandad.

"I think we ought to have a funeral for him.

"That's what we ought to do. We'll do it on television and we'll do it in real life."

Because we all went to Lennard's funeral.

That was the most amazing thing

that John Sullivan in a week grasped the nettle

and decided to have a funeral

of a character that was in a series on screen.

Never been done before.

And that came out of John's compassion.

I think that is a direct analysis of how emotional john is as a man.

He insisted that that's what he wanted to do

out of respect for and love of a character and an actor.

You don't get many people who have that much respect for actors!

We can say that very, very confidently here at the BBC!

No names, no pack drill!

My most... As Derek Trotter would say, my most favouritist...

My most favouritist thing of all time, I think that...

There's so many.

The chandelier because it came out of a conversation that john and I had.

Falling through the hatch because it has now become...

a piece of classic comedy biz.

I suppose there are so many rich shows,

but one of my favourites is the blow-up dolls.

He's so silly. It's so silly... They were just so funny.

When they go off behind the bar and they just spring up, I mean just...

It's very difficult, honestly, to say which is my best or my favourite

because every one of them, I think, is somewhere inside you...

just favourite moment.

We've spent so many years, so much time... having such a good time.

Really enjoying ourselves. We had a fantastic team.

Wonderful actors.

I don't think one person ever had a cross word with anyone.

In the whole 20 years.

John Sullivan used to bite his fingers down to the elbow when we were recording

because I'd be notorious for drying in certain places

and John would go ape!

He'd think I might have screwed up my timing, but I used to get away with it.

I think they all have a place in your heart

because it's the living Laurel and Hardy show.