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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:24,149 --> 00:00:25,192 [rock music playing] 4 00:00:45,087 --> 00:00:46,505 [Joan] I went to San Francisco 5 00:00:46,588 --> 00:00:49,174 because I had not been able to work in some months. 6 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:55,556 I'd been paralyzed by the conviction that writing was an irrelevant act... 7 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,105 that the world as I had understood it no longer existed. 8 00:01:09,903 --> 00:01:12,739 It was the first time I'd dealt directly and flatly 9 00:01:12,823 --> 00:01:14,867 with the evidence of atomization, 10 00:01:15,701 --> 00:01:17,911 the proof that things fall apart. 11 00:01:20,831 --> 00:01:23,667 If I was to work again, it would be necessary for me 12 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,794 to come to terms with disorder. 13 00:01:39,308 --> 00:01:42,186 [Dunne] When snakes would appear so much in your... 14 00:01:43,228 --> 00:01:46,565 in your later work, was that an unconscious... 15 00:01:47,691 --> 00:01:50,027 image, do you think, from growing up? 16 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:53,280 I think it was an unconscious image from growing up, yeah. 17 00:01:54,281 --> 00:01:57,951 But, I mean, snakes appeared in my later work because they just-- 18 00:01:58,785 --> 00:02:01,622 They were always on my mind. You had to avoid them. 19 00:02:04,541 --> 00:02:06,084 -Do you have snakes? -Hmm? 20 00:02:06,168 --> 00:02:07,961 -You have snakes? -I have no snakes. 21 00:02:08,045 --> 00:02:09,671 I'm not a big fan of snakes. 22 00:02:10,464 --> 00:02:13,675 Well, how do you know up in the country? 23 00:02:14,218 --> 00:02:15,093 [Dunne] Uh... 24 00:02:16,011 --> 00:02:17,804 I just take a rake and kill it. 25 00:02:18,514 --> 00:02:21,225 Killing a snake is the same as having a snake. 26 00:02:21,308 --> 00:02:23,018 -Oh, yes, that's true. -[laughing] 27 00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:30,817 [Joan] My first notebook was a Big 5 tablet given to me by my mother 28 00:02:31,818 --> 00:02:34,279 with the sensible suggestion I stop whining 29 00:02:34,363 --> 00:02:37,074 and learn to amuse myself by writing my thoughts. 30 00:02:38,909 --> 00:02:41,453 The first entry is a woman who believes herself 31 00:02:41,537 --> 00:02:43,997 to be freezing to death in the arctic night... 32 00:02:44,748 --> 00:02:48,585 only to find when day breaks she has stumbled on to the Sahara desert 33 00:02:48,669 --> 00:02:51,129 where she will die of the heat before lunch. 34 00:02:53,632 --> 00:02:56,718 I have no idea what turn of a 5-year-old's mind 35 00:02:56,802 --> 00:03:01,056 could have prompted so insistently ironic and exotic a story. 36 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:04,601 But it does reveal a predilection for the extreme 37 00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:07,104 which has dogged me into adult life. 38 00:03:08,897 --> 00:03:12,818 [Dunne] My Aunt Joan grew up on stories of the doomed Donner party. 39 00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:16,780 Her family actually traveled across the plains with them. 40 00:03:17,406 --> 00:03:21,702 They parted company when the Donners insisted on taking an uncharted shortcut. 41 00:03:24,288 --> 00:03:27,958 Instead, her family followed the map that they brought 42 00:03:28,417 --> 00:03:31,086 which safely guided them to the last frontier... 43 00:03:32,504 --> 00:03:33,589 California. 44 00:03:36,592 --> 00:03:40,637 [Joan] "I was born in Sacramento and lived in California most of my life. 45 00:03:46,935 --> 00:03:51,523 I learned to swim in the Sacramento and the American rivers before the dams. 46 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,613 I learned to drive on the levees up and downriver from Sacramento. 47 00:03:58,614 --> 00:04:02,159 Yet California has remained in some way impenetrable to me, 48 00:04:02,242 --> 00:04:03,911 a wearying enigma... 49 00:04:04,703 --> 00:04:07,247 as it has to many of us who were from there." 50 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:15,380 My family had come to Sacramento in the 19th century. 51 00:04:17,549 --> 00:04:19,551 They came to it as a frontier. 52 00:04:21,094 --> 00:04:22,721 And it was the last frontier. 53 00:04:24,306 --> 00:04:27,976 Don't you think people are formed by the landscape they grow up in? 54 00:04:29,686 --> 00:04:33,649 It formed everything I ever think, or ever do, or am. 55 00:04:44,034 --> 00:04:46,161 I remember once when we were snowbound, 56 00:04:46,245 --> 00:04:49,039 my mother gave me several old copies of Vogue... 57 00:04:49,706 --> 00:04:51,583 and pointed out an announcement 58 00:04:51,667 --> 00:04:56,213 the competition Vogue then had for college seniors, the Prix de Paris. 59 00:04:57,381 --> 00:05:00,133 First prize, a job in Paris or New York. 60 00:05:02,261 --> 00:05:05,639 "You could win that," my mother said. "You could win that 61 00:05:05,722 --> 00:05:08,767 and live in Paris, or New York, wherever you wanted. 62 00:05:08,851 --> 00:05:10,811 But definitely you could win it." 63 00:05:11,854 --> 00:05:14,189 My senior year at Berkeley, I did win it. 64 00:05:16,233 --> 00:05:19,319 I got out of Berkeley, and I was offered a job at Vogue. 65 00:05:19,987 --> 00:05:22,739 So, I moved to New York to take the job. 66 00:05:24,283 --> 00:05:26,493 It was very thrilling to me, naturally. 67 00:05:31,373 --> 00:05:33,709 When I first saw New York, I was 20. 68 00:05:34,877 --> 00:05:38,255 And it was summer time, and the warm air smelled of mildew 69 00:05:38,338 --> 00:05:40,215 and some instinct 70 00:05:40,299 --> 00:05:43,343 programmed by all the movies I'd ever seen 71 00:05:43,427 --> 00:05:46,346 and all the songs I'd ever heard sung 72 00:05:46,430 --> 00:05:48,557 and the stories I'd read about New York 73 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,602 informed me it would never be quite the same again. 74 00:05:53,270 --> 00:05:54,855 In fact, it never was. 75 00:05:59,902 --> 00:06:02,905 [Wintour] When she was here, you know, some time ago, 76 00:06:02,988 --> 00:06:05,699 it was at a moment in Vogue's history when, 77 00:06:05,782 --> 00:06:09,953 if you were an editor, you'd still wear a hat and gloves. 78 00:06:10,037 --> 00:06:13,081 And if you were just an assistant, no gloves, no hat. 79 00:06:13,165 --> 00:06:14,750 I mean, it was just a very-- 80 00:06:14,833 --> 00:06:19,755 Everyone was addressed by Ms. or Mrs. I mean, it was a very different time. 81 00:06:20,923 --> 00:06:22,299 [Rifield] It would be exciting, 82 00:06:22,382 --> 00:06:25,719 because Vogue was the preeminent fashion magazine. 83 00:06:25,802 --> 00:06:27,971 You had to learn to... 84 00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:30,557 write with irony, 85 00:06:31,183 --> 00:06:36,438 or with a kind of humor, you know, something that would grab the reader. 86 00:06:37,856 --> 00:06:39,900 You had to do it in this short space. 87 00:06:39,983 --> 00:06:43,529 You didn't have the luxury of writing, and writing, and writing. 88 00:06:44,905 --> 00:06:48,825 They would've been a little daunted by some of the editors. 89 00:06:49,576 --> 00:06:53,288 Allene Talmey, whom, uh, Joan obviously knew, 90 00:06:53,372 --> 00:06:54,998 she could be very frightening. 91 00:06:56,291 --> 00:06:59,086 I remember she would have this big aquamarine ring. 92 00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:01,839 She'd get violently 93 00:07:01,964 --> 00:07:04,466 crossing, x-ing out things, muttering: 94 00:07:04,550 --> 00:07:06,468 "Action verbs, action verbs." 95 00:07:08,178 --> 00:07:10,305 And everybody who lasted with her... 96 00:07:11,014 --> 00:07:12,850 basically learned to write. 97 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:19,231 The first thing I wrote for Vogue was "Self-respect, its source, its power." 98 00:07:20,065 --> 00:07:22,025 They had assigned a piece called... 99 00:07:23,443 --> 00:07:26,989 "Self-respect, its source, its power." They put it on the cover. 100 00:07:27,072 --> 00:07:31,785 And the writer didn't materialize. No piece came in. 101 00:07:32,494 --> 00:07:33,745 So, I had to write it. 102 00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:42,087 [woman] People with self-respect exhibit a certain toughness, 103 00:07:42,171 --> 00:07:43,881 a kind of moral nerve. 104 00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:48,510 They display what was once called "character"... 105 00:07:50,220 --> 00:07:52,806 a quality which although approved in abstract 106 00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:57,269 sometimes loses ground to other, more instantly negotiable virtues. 107 00:07:59,646 --> 00:08:04,401 "Character," the willingness to accept responsibility for one's own life, 108 00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:07,237 is the source from which self-respect springs. 109 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,161 However long we postpone it, we eventually lie down alone... 110 00:08:14,661 --> 00:08:18,832 in that notoriously uncomfortable bed, the one we make ourselves. 111 00:08:19,291 --> 00:08:22,419 Whether or not we sleep in it depends, of course, 112 00:08:22,503 --> 00:08:25,088 on whether or not we respect ourselves. 113 00:08:26,507 --> 00:08:30,177 [Dunne] It seems that would be unusual for Vogue to have a voice like that, 114 00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:31,470 that personal. Was it? 115 00:08:32,846 --> 00:08:34,473 Well, it was probably... 116 00:08:35,224 --> 00:08:36,767 sort of unusual, yeah. 117 00:08:36,850 --> 00:08:41,021 You might have pieces on ways of doing makeup or something like that 118 00:08:41,104 --> 00:08:43,065 but these weren't like that. 119 00:08:43,148 --> 00:08:45,150 They were personal pieces. 120 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:50,822 I started writing a novel, basically, when I came to New York. 121 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:53,492 That was sort of what you... did. 122 00:08:53,575 --> 00:08:56,912 You got out of school, and now you were gonna write a novel. 123 00:08:58,038 --> 00:09:00,874 So, I'd work all day at Vogue then I'd come home... 124 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:05,003 and have dinner or whatever and do this. 125 00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:08,757 I didn't have any real clear picture of how to do it. 126 00:09:08,841 --> 00:09:11,510 So, I would just do parts of it. 127 00:09:12,094 --> 00:09:16,014 And then I would just pin up these parts on the walls of my apartment. 128 00:09:18,475 --> 00:09:19,977 I think ten people read it. 129 00:09:20,936 --> 00:09:23,730 I think a total of 11 copies were sold. [chuckles] 130 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,276 [Jim] First time I saw her in print 131 00:09:27,359 --> 00:09:30,404 was probably her first novel which was Run River. 132 00:09:31,446 --> 00:09:35,742 It's not her best novel, but it was her first, and it was the, uh-- 133 00:09:37,619 --> 00:09:40,289 The, uh, story about people we knew. 134 00:09:40,873 --> 00:09:42,708 It was a Sacramento story. 135 00:09:42,791 --> 00:09:45,335 So, I've always enjoyed that. 136 00:09:51,675 --> 00:09:53,677 [Joan] "Here was the story about my father. 137 00:09:54,303 --> 00:09:58,265 There was about him a sadness so pervasive that it colored even those moments 138 00:09:58,348 --> 00:10:00,684 when he seemed to be having a good time. 139 00:10:02,436 --> 00:10:06,607 He could be in the middle of a party at our own house, sitting at the piano, 140 00:10:07,191 --> 00:10:09,776 a bourbon highball always within reach. 141 00:10:10,485 --> 00:10:12,946 The tension he transmitted would seem so great 142 00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:17,075 that I would have to leave, run to my room and close the door." 143 00:10:20,245 --> 00:10:23,207 My father was severely depressed. 144 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:27,336 I didn't realize that at the time. I thought... 145 00:10:28,837 --> 00:10:31,256 this depressed behavior was totally normal. 146 00:10:38,096 --> 00:10:41,099 "We went to the movies three or four afternoons a week. 147 00:10:42,059 --> 00:10:44,895 And it was there that I first saw John Wayne. 148 00:10:45,437 --> 00:10:48,649 I heard him tell a girl in a picture he'd build her a house 149 00:10:48,732 --> 00:10:51,735 at the bend in the river where the cottonwoods grow. 150 00:10:54,905 --> 00:10:59,243 Deep in that part of my heart where the artificial rain forever falls... 151 00:11:00,035 --> 00:11:02,663 that is still the line I wait to hear. 152 00:11:05,415 --> 00:11:09,920 As it happened, I did not grow up to be the woman who is the heroine in a Western. 153 00:11:10,128 --> 00:11:12,798 All of the men I have known have had many virtues 154 00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:16,426 and have taken me to live in many places I have come to love, 155 00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:18,262 they have never been John Wayne. 156 00:11:18,345 --> 00:11:22,683 They have never taken me to that bend in the river where the cottonwoods grow." 157 00:11:26,645 --> 00:11:28,772 [Dunne] He's, you know, a protector. 158 00:11:29,523 --> 00:11:30,858 You married a protector. 159 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:32,651 I did. 160 00:11:33,986 --> 00:11:34,987 Although... 161 00:11:35,988 --> 00:11:37,823 Also-- Also a hothead. 162 00:11:37,906 --> 00:11:39,116 [both laughing] 163 00:11:39,491 --> 00:11:41,493 -Quick with a gun. -Yeah. 164 00:11:47,875 --> 00:11:51,461 [Trillin] I met John Gregory Dunne at TIME magazine. 165 00:11:52,462 --> 00:11:55,132 We were sitting in this building, late at night 166 00:11:55,215 --> 00:11:57,259 with too much to drink. 167 00:11:57,885 --> 00:12:01,305 And, so, there were a lot of affairs going on. 168 00:12:01,388 --> 00:12:03,807 But people were very quiet about it. 169 00:12:04,766 --> 00:12:06,393 John was a great gossip... 170 00:12:06,768 --> 00:12:10,063 and, uh, always came into my office... 171 00:12:10,814 --> 00:12:13,567 and held up his hand and said, 172 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:16,236 "This, you will not believe." 173 00:12:17,196 --> 00:12:21,408 I made him a character in a novel about working at a news magazine. 174 00:12:22,868 --> 00:12:27,581 The beginning of the book had a claimer instead of a disclaimer. And it said, 175 00:12:27,664 --> 00:12:32,294 "The character of Andy Wolferman is based on John Gregory Dunne, 176 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:34,004 though it tends to flatter." 177 00:12:34,671 --> 00:12:36,131 Later, he said, 178 00:12:37,424 --> 00:12:39,593 "Calvin, I was wondering, what's the--? 179 00:12:39,676 --> 00:12:42,304 Why was I Jewish in the book?" 180 00:12:42,721 --> 00:12:45,807 And I said, "That's the 'tends to flatter,' John. 181 00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:49,811 You don't want to be a lace curtain Irish all your life." 182 00:12:49,895 --> 00:12:53,106 As Irish Catholics become assimilated, they lose something. 183 00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:55,692 They lose their Irish which makes them, uh, unique. 184 00:12:55,776 --> 00:12:59,446 It's sort of a very sort of dark, uh, sense of humor that they have. 185 00:12:59,530 --> 00:13:02,783 The Irish sense of humor is "A man kisses the Blarney Stone 186 00:13:02,866 --> 00:13:06,495 and falls and fractures his skull." That makes the Irish laugh. 187 00:13:06,578 --> 00:13:10,832 There is that sense of storytelling, and the Irish are great storytellers. 188 00:13:15,462 --> 00:13:18,048 [Dunne] As Joan's family crossed the frontier, 189 00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:21,969 John's grandfather came through Ellis Island at the age of 11 190 00:13:22,052 --> 00:13:23,971 with only a 3rd-grade education. 191 00:13:26,223 --> 00:13:30,686 It was his love of storytelling that John said influenced him to become a writer. 192 00:13:31,311 --> 00:13:34,565 He'd offer the kids a quarter, a lot of money at the time... 193 00:13:34,982 --> 00:13:37,860 to recite a Shakespeare sonnet or poem. 194 00:13:39,611 --> 00:13:42,990 John went on to write 13 books, both fiction and non-fiction. 195 00:13:43,657 --> 00:13:46,618 His older brother and my father, Dominick Dunne, 196 00:13:46,702 --> 00:13:49,162 also became a journalist and novelist. 197 00:13:51,748 --> 00:13:55,294 [Joan] I went to Hartford and fell in love with his family... 198 00:13:56,253 --> 00:13:58,839 and determined that I was gonna marry him... 199 00:14:00,507 --> 00:14:01,925 and did. 200 00:14:07,431 --> 00:14:09,600 I don't know what "fall in love" means. 201 00:14:09,933 --> 00:14:12,269 Um... It's not part of my... 202 00:14:13,770 --> 00:14:14,813 world. 203 00:14:16,565 --> 00:14:21,195 But I do remember having a very clear sense that I wanted this to continue. 204 00:14:23,113 --> 00:14:24,656 I liked being a couple. 205 00:14:24,740 --> 00:14:27,701 I liked having somebody there. 206 00:14:29,203 --> 00:14:31,830 I could not have been with somebody who wasn't a writer 207 00:14:31,914 --> 00:14:35,000 because that person would not have had patience with me. 208 00:14:38,337 --> 00:14:40,589 [John] In the spring, after we got married, 209 00:14:40,672 --> 00:14:44,343 Joan and I got fearfully drunk at this party. 210 00:14:44,426 --> 00:14:46,136 And the next morning, 211 00:14:46,929 --> 00:14:48,472 uh, we had breakfast at a-- 212 00:14:48,931 --> 00:14:50,057 On Madison Avenue. 213 00:14:50,432 --> 00:14:52,309 At a coffee shop, a drug store. 214 00:14:52,726 --> 00:14:55,646 And Joan started to cry at breakfast. 215 00:14:56,146 --> 00:14:57,648 And so I had to go to work. 216 00:14:58,148 --> 00:15:01,527 I got into work. I called her. "Would you mind if I quit?" 217 00:15:02,110 --> 00:15:03,362 And she said, "No." 218 00:15:03,862 --> 00:15:06,657 I said, "We'll figure out what we're going to do." 219 00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:08,575 And I went in and gave my notice. 220 00:15:09,743 --> 00:15:11,537 End of story. End of time. 221 00:15:15,624 --> 00:15:19,503 [woman] It's easy to see the beginnings of things and harder to see the ends. 222 00:15:22,339 --> 00:15:24,550 I remember now with a clarity that makes 223 00:15:24,633 --> 00:15:27,469 the nerves on the back of my neck constrict... 224 00:15:27,928 --> 00:15:29,513 when New York began for me. 225 00:15:31,139 --> 00:15:34,226 But I cannot lay my finger upon the moment it ended. 226 00:15:41,942 --> 00:15:45,445 All I know is that it was very bad when I was 28. 227 00:15:46,697 --> 00:15:50,117 Everything that was said to me, I seemed to have heard before. 228 00:15:50,409 --> 00:15:52,160 And I could no longer listen. 229 00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:56,290 I hurt people I cared about... 230 00:15:56,915 --> 00:15:59,001 and insulted those I did not. 231 00:16:00,627 --> 00:16:03,797 I cried until I was not even aware when I was crying. 232 00:16:04,715 --> 00:16:08,260 Cried in elevators, and in taxis, and in Chinese laundries. 233 00:16:09,928 --> 00:16:14,516 That was the year, my 28th, when I began to understand the lesson in that story... 234 00:16:15,309 --> 00:16:19,354 which was that it is distinctly possible to stay too long at the fair. 235 00:16:32,534 --> 00:16:35,829 [Joan] Then we decided to move to California for six months. 236 00:16:37,331 --> 00:16:39,625 I put an ad in the Los Angeles Times. 237 00:16:39,708 --> 00:16:43,378 "Writer, wife, desire house." You know. 238 00:16:43,462 --> 00:16:44,963 And the writer and wife... 239 00:16:45,631 --> 00:16:49,218 specifically desired a house on the west side of Los Angeles. 240 00:16:49,301 --> 00:16:50,636 And we wanted to pay... 241 00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:55,557 something like $300 for it. I mean, the whole thing was ridiculous. 242 00:16:56,433 --> 00:17:00,229 We finally got a house. Your mother went out and looked at it for us. 243 00:17:00,312 --> 00:17:02,189 That house in Portuguese Bend. 244 00:17:08,654 --> 00:17:13,116 Only your mother would drive 60 miles to look at a house for somebody. 245 00:17:27,798 --> 00:17:29,675 [Dunne] We loved going to Portuguese Bend. 246 00:17:30,968 --> 00:17:34,096 Their house was on a bluff overlooking the Pacific. 247 00:17:36,265 --> 00:17:38,392 Joan would point out migrating whales. 248 00:17:38,475 --> 00:17:40,936 And John would take my sister, Dominique, 249 00:17:41,019 --> 00:17:44,439 my brother, Alex, and I down to these tide pools 250 00:17:44,523 --> 00:17:46,275 where we'd catch sand crabs. 251 00:17:52,489 --> 00:17:54,950 There was this cave, and we would swim. 252 00:17:56,034 --> 00:17:58,620 You had to get into the water at a certain point 253 00:17:58,704 --> 00:18:01,915 and get beyond the-- The surf. 254 00:18:08,088 --> 00:18:10,090 "The tide had to be just right. 255 00:18:11,216 --> 00:18:15,220 And you had to be in the water at the very moment the tide changed. 256 00:18:16,638 --> 00:18:20,184 We had to be in the water at the very moment the tide was right. 257 00:18:21,059 --> 00:18:24,062 Each time we did it, I was afraid of missing the swell, 258 00:18:24,146 --> 00:18:26,356 hanging back, timing it wrong. 259 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,608 He never was. 260 00:18:28,734 --> 00:18:32,571 You had to feel the swell change. You had to go with the change." 261 00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:35,908 He told me that. 262 00:18:38,327 --> 00:18:41,872 Do you remember--? Do you remember meeting me for the first time? 263 00:18:42,539 --> 00:18:44,875 [Joan] Maybe it was at Portuguese Bend. 264 00:18:45,834 --> 00:18:47,461 [Dunne] Here's my, like... 265 00:18:48,795 --> 00:18:51,006 five-year-old memory of meeting you. 266 00:18:51,715 --> 00:18:53,008 We were at the pool. 267 00:18:53,675 --> 00:18:56,053 Alex and I had matching swim trunks, 268 00:18:56,637 --> 00:19:01,391 these tight, like, bicycle pants with gold buckles on it. 269 00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:06,396 And, uh, we were, uh-- 270 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,983 This is how-- This is during our leisure time in our matching... 271 00:19:10,526 --> 00:19:11,527 -Uh... -[laughing] 272 00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:16,865 bathing suits. And everybody was very excited about you and John coming over. 273 00:19:17,491 --> 00:19:20,327 Mom was kind of nervous and was telling us about 274 00:19:20,410 --> 00:19:22,246 we're gonna meet John's wife. 275 00:19:22,496 --> 00:19:23,872 I'm meeting you. 276 00:19:24,331 --> 00:19:27,501 And, uh, John... says, uh... 277 00:19:29,461 --> 00:19:33,841 "Griffin, you got a little-- You got a little something poking out of there." 278 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,513 And I looked down and one ball has come out of the seam 279 00:19:39,596 --> 00:19:42,099 that was broken in the tight bathing suit. 280 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:47,521 And Dad, and John, and I think my mom roared with laughter. 281 00:19:48,063 --> 00:19:49,815 And I was scarlet. 282 00:19:49,898 --> 00:19:51,859 I was so embarrassed. 283 00:19:52,734 --> 00:19:58,198 You were the only one that didn't laugh. You just kept right on going, just like-- 284 00:19:58,615 --> 00:20:00,242 With a totally straight face. 285 00:20:00,909 --> 00:20:03,996 [chuckles] I always-- I always loved you for that. 286 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:05,455 [both laughing] 287 00:20:05,831 --> 00:20:08,125 But John, of course, was relentless. 288 00:20:13,547 --> 00:20:15,966 Six months at Portuguese Bend became a year. 289 00:20:17,342 --> 00:20:21,430 John was writing a book about Cesar Chavez and the California grape strike. 290 00:20:21,513 --> 00:20:25,809 Joan traveled through the central valley to help with research and reporting. 291 00:20:35,194 --> 00:20:37,654 To pay bills, they wrote magazine articles 292 00:20:37,738 --> 00:20:41,074 for the Saturday Evening Post, Holiday, LIFE, and Esquire. 293 00:20:44,661 --> 00:20:46,872 At one point, they even shared a column. 294 00:20:49,082 --> 00:20:52,503 And despite how different their styles and points of view were, 295 00:20:52,586 --> 00:20:54,755 they would never turn in a piece 296 00:20:54,838 --> 00:20:57,508 without running it by the other for a final edit. 297 00:20:58,634 --> 00:21:01,053 They were each other's most trusted reader. 298 00:21:07,309 --> 00:21:09,728 Were you thinking about children at that point? 299 00:21:09,811 --> 00:21:12,523 [Joan] I was thinking about children. He was thinking about children. 300 00:21:12,606 --> 00:21:14,066 But we couldn't have one. 301 00:21:16,318 --> 00:21:18,529 Suddenly, we got offered one. 302 00:21:20,113 --> 00:21:21,114 What do you mean? 303 00:21:21,657 --> 00:21:22,699 I mean... 304 00:21:23,825 --> 00:21:25,202 the phone rang one day. 305 00:21:29,289 --> 00:21:33,377 "I was taking a shower and burst into tears when John came in to report 306 00:21:33,460 --> 00:21:36,296 what the obstetrician who delivered her said. 307 00:21:38,382 --> 00:21:41,927 'I have a beautiful baby girl at Saint John's,' is what he said. 308 00:21:42,010 --> 00:21:43,846 'I need to know if you want her.' 309 00:21:46,265 --> 00:21:49,810 Later, we stood outside the window of the nursery at Saint John's 310 00:21:49,893 --> 00:21:51,144 looking at an infant... 311 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,272 with fierce dark hair... 312 00:21:53,814 --> 00:21:55,440 and rosebud features. 313 00:21:56,608 --> 00:21:59,236 The beads on her wrist spelled not her name 314 00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,780 but NI for 'No Information.'" 315 00:22:02,948 --> 00:22:07,327 Well, I mean, there was no question. This baby was gonna be ours. Yeah. 316 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,251 Almost everybody I know who has ever... 317 00:22:14,835 --> 00:22:16,003 had a child... 318 00:22:17,421 --> 00:22:21,258 is afraid before the baby comes that they won't be up to it. 319 00:22:24,511 --> 00:22:27,723 The reality couldn't have been more perfect. 320 00:22:30,475 --> 00:22:33,478 I remembered leaving the hospital with her and driving. 321 00:22:36,148 --> 00:22:39,526 We were on the San Diego freeway going home. 322 00:22:40,944 --> 00:22:45,157 I always thought of myself as bonding with her on the San Diego. 323 00:22:52,164 --> 00:22:54,708 [Dunne] These pictures are from Quintana's christening, 324 00:22:55,083 --> 00:22:57,669 two months after John and Joan brought her home. 325 00:23:00,797 --> 00:23:04,968 John might have been a lapsed Catholic, but he was Catholic to his core. 326 00:23:05,052 --> 00:23:09,223 The idea that something could happen to Quintana during those two months, 327 00:23:09,306 --> 00:23:13,268 sending her to limbo, was a risk John just wasn't willing to take. 328 00:23:13,977 --> 00:23:16,063 So, on their first night home... 329 00:23:16,855 --> 00:23:20,192 unordained John waited until Joan was asleep 330 00:23:20,567 --> 00:23:22,903 and he snuck Quintana into the bathroom 331 00:23:23,111 --> 00:23:25,739 and baptized her right there under the sink. 332 00:23:27,866 --> 00:23:32,246 [Joan] We had to move out of the house at the beach because they didn't want a baby. 333 00:23:33,121 --> 00:23:34,665 We were not "writer, wife." 334 00:23:34,748 --> 00:23:36,625 We were "writer, wife, baby." 335 00:23:39,586 --> 00:23:40,838 [rock music playing] 336 00:23:48,220 --> 00:23:51,181 [woman] In the years I'm talking about, I was in a large house 337 00:23:51,265 --> 00:23:53,725 in a part of Hollywood that was once expensive 338 00:23:53,809 --> 00:23:56,395 and was now described by one of my acquaintances 339 00:23:56,478 --> 00:23:58,939 as a senseless killing neighborhood. 340 00:24:07,322 --> 00:24:09,324 Since the inclination to rent 341 00:24:09,408 --> 00:24:14,079 an unfurnished 28-room house for a month or two is a distinctly special one, 342 00:24:14,788 --> 00:24:16,957 the neighborhood was peopled mainly by 343 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,670 rock 'n' roll bands, therapy groups, and by my husband, my daughter, and me. 344 00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:30,804 [Moore] They had this wonderful old Hollywood house on Franklin Avenue. 345 00:24:31,889 --> 00:24:33,932 Big, not too much furniture. 346 00:24:34,016 --> 00:24:38,520 I lived there a while. I was trying to remember why I lived with them. 347 00:24:39,479 --> 00:24:42,441 She would come down fairly late in the morning. 348 00:24:42,524 --> 00:24:43,942 I'd be in the kitchen. 349 00:24:45,068 --> 00:24:47,529 She'd have a cold... 350 00:24:48,447 --> 00:24:51,533 Coke in the bottle from the refrigerator. 351 00:24:51,617 --> 00:24:54,536 She'd be wearing sunglasses... silent. 352 00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:58,123 I had to have Coca-Colas in the refrigerator. 353 00:24:59,666 --> 00:25:01,668 And they had to be really cold. 354 00:25:03,253 --> 00:25:07,799 And if anyone took my last Coca-Cola, we would have a scene in the kitchen. 355 00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:13,514 There was always a big case of canned... 356 00:25:14,431 --> 00:25:17,309 uh, salted almonds which her mother sent her, 357 00:25:17,392 --> 00:25:19,561 I think, for Christmas each year. 358 00:25:19,645 --> 00:25:22,731 It had to be more often because she ate them so quickly. 359 00:25:22,814 --> 00:25:26,693 And she would open a can, I remember the sound. You know that sound. 360 00:25:27,486 --> 00:25:29,238 I'd sit there with my coffee. 361 00:25:29,321 --> 00:25:33,200 And she'd sit there in her sunglasses with the Coke and the nuts. 362 00:25:33,283 --> 00:25:35,244 But neither of us speaking. 363 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:41,542 [Joan] I like to sit around and watch people do what they do. 364 00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:43,460 I don't like to ask questions. 365 00:25:43,544 --> 00:25:44,628 [The Doors' "Five to One" playing] 366 00:25:44,711 --> 00:25:46,630 Jim Morrison, I did a piece on. 367 00:25:47,422 --> 00:25:50,551 Rock 'n' roll people are the ideal subject for me. 368 00:25:50,634 --> 00:25:53,345 They will just lead their lives in front of you. 369 00:25:53,595 --> 00:25:56,557 -[Dunne] Did you like The Doors? -I was crazy about The Doors. 370 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,601 -What is it about The Doors that drew you? -Bad boys. 371 00:26:00,185 --> 00:26:01,562 ♪ Come on ♪ 372 00:26:08,902 --> 00:26:12,447 [Joan] I was doing a piece on the Haight-Ashbury in 1967. 373 00:26:14,867 --> 00:26:19,329 And it seemed to me that we were seeing the tip of something important 374 00:26:19,413 --> 00:26:21,707 that wasn't about "hippies," you know? 375 00:26:21,790 --> 00:26:25,002 That it was about disaffected children, et cetera. 376 00:26:30,174 --> 00:26:32,467 ♪ Five to one, baby ♪ 377 00:26:32,551 --> 00:26:34,511 ♪ One in five ♪ 378 00:26:35,637 --> 00:26:40,225 ♪ No one here gets out alive now ♪ 379 00:26:40,767 --> 00:26:43,896 The idea that you could write the history of your time, 380 00:26:43,979 --> 00:26:47,149 which, I think, is what Joan has done through the essay, 381 00:26:47,232 --> 00:26:49,776 and could be a form which would be as supple, 382 00:26:49,860 --> 00:26:53,864 and as versatile, and as nuanced as fiction, 383 00:26:54,364 --> 00:26:55,908 is something extraordinary. 384 00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:59,912 She makes it do things that nobody ever made it do before. 385 00:27:03,832 --> 00:27:05,584 The center was not holding. 386 00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:12,216 It was a country of bankruptcy notices, public auction announcements, 387 00:27:12,299 --> 00:27:14,635 commonplace reports of casual killings, 388 00:27:14,718 --> 00:27:18,180 misplaced children, and abandoned homes and vandals 389 00:27:18,263 --> 00:27:21,934 who misspelled even the four-letter words they scrawled. 390 00:27:24,102 --> 00:27:27,314 It was a country in which families routinely disappeared, 391 00:27:27,397 --> 00:27:30,859 trailing bad checks and repossession papers. 392 00:27:30,943 --> 00:27:34,613 Adolescents drifted from city to torn city, 393 00:27:34,696 --> 00:27:37,616 sloughing off both the past and the future 394 00:27:37,699 --> 00:27:40,118 as snakes shed their skins. 395 00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:45,332 Children who were never taught and would never now learn 396 00:27:45,415 --> 00:27:48,085 the games that had held society together. 397 00:27:52,422 --> 00:27:55,133 Children were missing. Parents were missing. 398 00:27:55,509 --> 00:27:59,304 Those left behind filed desultory missing persons reports 399 00:27:59,763 --> 00:28:01,640 then moved on themselves. 400 00:28:05,936 --> 00:28:08,897 [Joan] I had a 2-year-old at the time I was working on that. 401 00:28:08,981 --> 00:28:13,151 So, it was particularly vivid to me to see these other children. 402 00:28:13,902 --> 00:28:17,322 It was vivid to me because I was away from the 2-year-old... 403 00:28:18,031 --> 00:28:21,410 and feeling slightly cut off from her, yeah. 404 00:28:24,955 --> 00:28:27,583 [Hare] When I finally find my contact, he says, 405 00:28:27,666 --> 00:28:30,669 "I got something at my place that will blow your mind." 406 00:28:31,128 --> 00:28:34,256 When we get there, I see a child on the living room floor 407 00:28:34,339 --> 00:28:36,508 licking her lips in concentration. 408 00:28:36,592 --> 00:28:40,929 The only thing off about her is that she's wearing white lipstick. 409 00:28:41,555 --> 00:28:45,684 "Five years old," the contact says, "on acid." 410 00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:49,188 [Dunne] What was it like to be a journalist in the room 411 00:28:49,271 --> 00:28:51,732 when you saw the little kid on acid? 412 00:28:52,107 --> 00:28:53,150 Well, it was-- 413 00:29:00,365 --> 00:29:01,992 Let me tell you, it was gold. 414 00:29:02,576 --> 00:29:05,787 I mean, that's the long and the short of it is... 415 00:29:06,288 --> 00:29:09,249 you live for moments like that... 416 00:29:09,333 --> 00:29:12,127 if you're... doing a piece. 417 00:29:15,297 --> 00:29:16,423 Good or bad. 418 00:29:19,051 --> 00:29:22,513 [Hare] Obviously, we being repressed, miserable... 419 00:29:22,888 --> 00:29:24,848 dank English folk, 420 00:29:24,932 --> 00:29:27,643 we loved the sound of hippiedom, you know? 421 00:29:27,809 --> 00:29:31,271 Uh, we thought San Francisco sounded absolutely great to us. 422 00:29:31,355 --> 00:29:36,026 And so, you know, Joan Didion reporting from the heart of, um, 423 00:29:36,109 --> 00:29:38,779 Haight-Ashbury about what it was actually like 424 00:29:38,862 --> 00:29:41,073 came as a bit of a bracing shock to us. 425 00:29:41,156 --> 00:29:44,618 That's not how we thought the whole thing should be seen. 426 00:29:44,701 --> 00:29:48,080 But I can see that very early on in that early reporting, 427 00:29:48,163 --> 00:29:51,458 there's a sort of horror of disorder... 428 00:29:52,793 --> 00:29:56,255 which is very much a feature of Joan's writing... 429 00:29:56,964 --> 00:29:58,423 and Joan's personality. 430 00:30:02,553 --> 00:30:04,096 [Joan] I was living in Los Angeles. 431 00:30:04,179 --> 00:30:07,182 And the magazines I was writing for were in New York. 432 00:30:07,266 --> 00:30:10,978 And so, I was reporting on a lot of stuff that they weren't seeing. 433 00:30:11,603 --> 00:30:13,856 Sometimes, you hit a piece that seemed-- 434 00:30:13,939 --> 00:30:17,568 That it could take a longer length than a magazine could give you. 435 00:30:17,651 --> 00:30:22,489 I might do a non-fiction book someday, but I didn't do one for a long time. 436 00:30:29,121 --> 00:30:31,248 It comes from that Yeats poem, 437 00:30:31,331 --> 00:30:34,626 When what rough beast slouches Toward Bethlehem to be born 438 00:30:40,299 --> 00:30:42,509 [John] It was reviewed by someone in TheNew York Times. 439 00:30:42,593 --> 00:30:44,636 They said what made this book special 440 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,514 is it emphasized what used to be called character. 441 00:30:49,641 --> 00:30:50,934 And it was boom. 442 00:30:51,018 --> 00:30:54,104 And all of a sudden, you were a figure. 443 00:30:54,897 --> 00:30:56,607 [Janis Joplin's "Half Moon" playing] 444 00:31:10,996 --> 00:31:14,833 ♪ Half moon, night time sky ♪ 445 00:31:14,917 --> 00:31:18,253 ♪ Seven stars, heaven's eyes ♪ 446 00:31:18,337 --> 00:31:20,380 [woman] Someone once brought Janis Joplin 447 00:31:20,464 --> 00:31:22,883 to a party at the house on Franklin Avenue. 448 00:31:23,675 --> 00:31:25,344 She had just done a concert, 449 00:31:25,427 --> 00:31:28,889 and she wanted a brandy and Benedictine in a water tumbler. 450 00:31:28,972 --> 00:31:32,142 Music people never wanted ordinary drinks. 451 00:31:32,601 --> 00:31:37,439 They wanted sake, or champagne cocktails, or tequila neat. 452 00:31:38,607 --> 00:31:41,610 Spending time with music people was confusing. 453 00:31:43,237 --> 00:31:44,446 That party was-- 454 00:31:45,948 --> 00:31:48,700 Was maybe the biggest party we ever had. 455 00:31:48,784 --> 00:31:50,035 ♪ --and arms aflame ♪ 456 00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:54,081 ♪ Wings rise up to call your name ♪ 457 00:31:57,125 --> 00:31:58,877 [Joan] About midway through the party, 458 00:31:58,961 --> 00:32:01,922 we realized that people were missing their cars. 459 00:32:02,297 --> 00:32:06,760 I pointed this out to the parking guy, and he said, "What can I do, Mrs. Dunne? 460 00:32:06,844 --> 00:32:10,305 How did I know you lived in a terrible neighborhood?" [laughing] 461 00:32:12,724 --> 00:32:16,562 The horrible thing I remember is going up to Quintana's room just to 462 00:32:17,062 --> 00:32:19,523 check and make sure that everything was okay. 463 00:32:20,107 --> 00:32:21,108 And... 464 00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:24,903 there were drugs on the floor. 465 00:32:26,029 --> 00:32:28,699 I couldn't believe that anybody would do that. 466 00:32:30,701 --> 00:32:34,413 There were a lot of drugs around town at that time. 467 00:32:34,496 --> 00:32:38,750 And the presence of these drugs became all that was on anybody's mind. 468 00:32:40,335 --> 00:32:43,881 You wanted to get rid of them. You wanted them out of your house. 469 00:32:49,219 --> 00:32:50,804 [man] Friday night in Los Angeles, 470 00:32:50,888 --> 00:32:53,932 a movie actress and four of her friends were murdered 471 00:32:54,016 --> 00:32:56,226 and the circumstances were lurid. 472 00:32:57,394 --> 00:33:00,606 This was at the home of Roman Polanski. 473 00:33:00,689 --> 00:33:04,026 And it was his wife, Sharon Tate, who was one of the victims. 474 00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:07,279 She too had been stabbed, repeated stab wounds. 475 00:33:07,821 --> 00:33:11,074 One of the victims had a hood placed over his head, 476 00:33:11,158 --> 00:33:14,620 and the word "pig" was written in blood on the door. 477 00:33:15,871 --> 00:33:17,748 [woman] Many people I know in Los Angeles 478 00:33:17,831 --> 00:33:23,045 believed that the '60s ended abruptly on August 9th, 1969. 479 00:33:23,128 --> 00:33:26,924 Ended at the exact moment when the word of the murders of Cielo Drive 480 00:33:27,007 --> 00:33:30,010 traveled like brushfire through the community. 481 00:33:33,639 --> 00:33:35,974 [Dunne] Where were you when you heard about Manson? 482 00:33:36,058 --> 00:33:37,768 In your mother's swimming pool. 483 00:33:38,644 --> 00:33:42,272 Your mother was wearing a Pucci bathing suit. 484 00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:44,942 The phone was ringing. She answered the phone. 485 00:33:45,025 --> 00:33:46,944 -And it was Natalie. -[Dunne] Natalie Wood. 486 00:33:47,027 --> 00:33:49,905 And Natalie was calling to tell her 487 00:33:49,988 --> 00:33:53,659 that this terrible thing had happened the night before. 488 00:33:57,204 --> 00:34:00,207 Before the Manson case, 489 00:34:00,290 --> 00:34:02,543 everything seemed explicable. 490 00:34:03,043 --> 00:34:04,294 And suddenly... 491 00:34:04,962 --> 00:34:08,048 the Manson case happened and nothing was making sense. 492 00:34:10,676 --> 00:34:11,885 [man] Tiny Linda Kasabian, 493 00:34:11,969 --> 00:34:15,430 20 years old and 7 months pregnant with her second child, 494 00:34:15,514 --> 00:34:17,349 already has pleaded not guilty 495 00:34:17,432 --> 00:34:20,561 in the murders of Sharon Tate and six other persons. 496 00:34:20,644 --> 00:34:24,481 [Joan] Linda Kasabian, the person I was interviewing on the Manson case, 497 00:34:24,565 --> 00:34:28,485 told me they had gone by our house which was spooky. 498 00:34:30,445 --> 00:34:32,865 [Dunne] What was it like interviewing Linda Kasabian? 499 00:34:32,948 --> 00:34:35,826 [Joan] Well, I spent quite a bit of time with her, actually, 500 00:34:36,326 --> 00:34:39,162 both when she was in jail and before she testified. 501 00:34:41,206 --> 00:34:44,168 That was a weird... situation. 502 00:34:44,251 --> 00:34:48,088 Finding myself cooking... dinner for... 503 00:34:50,132 --> 00:34:52,885 Linda Kasabian and her child. 504 00:34:53,927 --> 00:34:55,220 And the child was-- 505 00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:58,223 The child had to be bathed, and-- 506 00:34:58,307 --> 00:35:01,226 You know, the whole thing was weirdly... 507 00:35:06,899 --> 00:35:08,442 It was weirdly normal... 508 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,363 and yet it was not normal in any way at all. 509 00:35:14,907 --> 00:35:18,035 [woman] In this light, all narrative was sentimental. 510 00:35:18,118 --> 00:35:21,496 In this light, all connections were equally meaningful 511 00:35:21,580 --> 00:35:23,415 and equally senseless. 512 00:35:25,125 --> 00:35:26,168 Try these. 513 00:35:27,669 --> 00:35:31,298 On the morning of John Kennedy's death in 1963, 514 00:35:31,965 --> 00:35:35,344 I was buying, at Ransohoff's in San Francisco, 515 00:35:35,427 --> 00:35:38,597 a short silk dress in which to be married. 516 00:35:39,348 --> 00:35:42,226 A few years later, this dress of mine was ruined 517 00:35:42,309 --> 00:35:44,228 when at a dinner party in Bel Air, 518 00:35:44,311 --> 00:35:48,482 Roman Polanski accidentally spilled a glass of red wine on it. 519 00:35:50,776 --> 00:35:53,111 On July 27th, 1970, 520 00:35:53,195 --> 00:35:57,491 I went to the Magnin High shop in Beverly Hills and picked out, 521 00:35:57,824 --> 00:35:59,826 at Linda Kasabian's request, 522 00:35:59,910 --> 00:36:02,454 the dress in which she began her testimony 523 00:36:02,538 --> 00:36:07,042 about the murders at Sharon Tate Polanski's house on Cielo Drive. 524 00:36:09,837 --> 00:36:13,966 I believe this to be an authentically senseless chain of correspondences. 525 00:36:14,758 --> 00:36:17,344 But in the jingle jangle morning of that summer, 526 00:36:17,427 --> 00:36:19,805 it made as much sense as anything else did. 527 00:36:25,853 --> 00:36:29,773 [Joan] The White Album, I think those pieces are 528 00:36:29,857 --> 00:36:32,025 about the late '60s, early '70s. 529 00:36:35,070 --> 00:36:38,031 The Beatles album figured in the Manson Trial. 530 00:36:38,532 --> 00:36:40,909 It was a kind of dark album. 531 00:36:40,993 --> 00:36:43,287 And that was the period. 532 00:36:46,331 --> 00:36:48,667 [Als] On The Beatles' album, The White Album, 533 00:36:49,001 --> 00:36:53,172 there's ballads, and there are sound experiments by Lennon. 534 00:36:53,255 --> 00:36:56,008 There are soft songs, 535 00:36:56,091 --> 00:36:58,218 hard songs, instrumental. 536 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,471 She does a very similar thing in that essay 537 00:37:01,555 --> 00:37:04,808 which I find... profound, and it took ten years. 538 00:37:04,892 --> 00:37:10,480 If you look at the date, I think it's a ten-year period where she worked... on it. 539 00:37:12,024 --> 00:37:14,651 You couldn't make a narrative about the times. 540 00:37:14,735 --> 00:37:16,612 The times weren't cohesive. 541 00:37:16,695 --> 00:37:22,618 So, she found this way, which is to kind of make a verbal record of the times. 542 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,415 [woman] I am talking here about a time when I began to doubt 543 00:37:28,498 --> 00:37:32,461 the premises of all the stories I had ever told myself. 544 00:37:39,968 --> 00:37:42,804 A common condition, but one I found troubling. 545 00:37:45,807 --> 00:37:49,186 I suppose this period began around 1966 546 00:37:49,269 --> 00:37:51,813 and continued until 1971. 547 00:37:52,940 --> 00:37:56,151 During those five years, I appeared, on the face of it, 548 00:37:56,235 --> 00:37:59,238 a competent enough member of some community or another. 549 00:38:00,489 --> 00:38:04,243 I wrote a couple of times a month for one magazine or another, 550 00:38:04,326 --> 00:38:06,036 published two books, 551 00:38:06,537 --> 00:38:09,498 participated in the paranoia of the time. 552 00:38:11,667 --> 00:38:16,046 The weirdness of America somehow got into this person's bones 553 00:38:16,463 --> 00:38:19,383 and came out on the other side of a typewriter. 554 00:38:21,218 --> 00:38:23,095 [Dunne] What was going on in your marriage? 555 00:38:23,178 --> 00:38:25,055 [Joan] Well, he was not happy with... 556 00:38:25,806 --> 00:38:30,352 what he was doing, and what was going on in our marriage was we were not happy. 557 00:38:32,855 --> 00:38:36,483 He had a temper, a horrible temper, yeah. 558 00:38:37,317 --> 00:38:38,610 I didn't. 559 00:38:38,694 --> 00:38:42,281 -What things would set him off? -Everything would set him off. 560 00:38:44,366 --> 00:38:48,161 [woman] I want you to know as you read me precisely who I am, 561 00:38:48,245 --> 00:38:51,206 and where I am, and what is on my mind. 562 00:38:56,461 --> 00:38:59,840 I want you to understand exactly what you're getting. 563 00:39:01,383 --> 00:39:03,927 You're getting a woman, who for some time now, 564 00:39:04,011 --> 00:39:07,514 has felt radically separated from most of the ideas 565 00:39:07,598 --> 00:39:09,766 that seem to interest other people. 566 00:39:11,602 --> 00:39:14,438 You're getting a woman who somewhere along the line, 567 00:39:14,521 --> 00:39:19,067 misplaced whatever slight faith she had in the social contract... 568 00:39:20,444 --> 00:39:23,113 in the whole grand pattern of human endeavor. 569 00:39:29,578 --> 00:39:32,748 I had better tell you where I am and why. 570 00:39:33,290 --> 00:39:38,086 I'm sitting in a high-ceilinged room in the Royal Hawaiian hotel in Honolulu, 571 00:39:38,170 --> 00:39:42,216 watching the long translucent curtains billow in the trade wind... 572 00:39:42,674 --> 00:39:45,511 and trying to put my life back together. 573 00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:49,932 My husband is here and our daughter, age 3. 574 00:39:52,726 --> 00:39:55,896 We are here on this island in the middle of the Pacific 575 00:39:55,979 --> 00:39:58,148 in lieu of filing for divorce. 576 00:40:01,235 --> 00:40:02,361 [Dunne] Did he read that? 577 00:40:02,444 --> 00:40:04,029 He edited that. 578 00:40:04,112 --> 00:40:07,533 He edited it? So, how does that--? What was the--? Was it--? 579 00:40:07,616 --> 00:40:10,953 What was your agreement about just writing about... 580 00:40:12,037 --> 00:40:14,122 your inner public life? 581 00:40:14,289 --> 00:40:16,375 It was-- We didn't have an agreement. 582 00:40:16,458 --> 00:40:17,960 We didn't have-- 583 00:40:18,043 --> 00:40:21,922 We didn't see it as a deal, you know... or a deal-breaker. 584 00:40:23,632 --> 00:40:24,466 Um... 585 00:40:27,886 --> 00:40:30,597 We thought, generally, that you-- You wrote what-- 586 00:40:31,181 --> 00:40:34,142 You used your material. You wrote what you had. 587 00:40:36,728 --> 00:40:39,398 That was what I happened to have at the moment. 588 00:40:40,566 --> 00:40:41,608 At that moment. 589 00:40:50,158 --> 00:40:51,952 He rented an apartment in Vegas. 590 00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:55,038 It was a nightmare apartment. 591 00:40:56,081 --> 00:40:58,667 He never stayed in it. He never spent one night. 592 00:40:59,543 --> 00:41:02,129 He would go over there, and he would stay at-- 593 00:41:03,046 --> 00:41:04,381 At a hotel. 594 00:41:07,134 --> 00:41:09,219 It was not a good time. 595 00:41:10,262 --> 00:41:12,556 Actually, it was a wonderful book, it turned out. 596 00:41:23,817 --> 00:41:26,111 [Dunne] You and John were both writing dark stuff? 597 00:41:26,195 --> 00:41:27,696 Well, it was a dark time. 598 00:41:35,787 --> 00:41:37,956 [Hare] She's in there, in the world, 599 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,542 and she's writing about all sorts of ugly things. 600 00:41:41,335 --> 00:41:43,587 Look at Play It As It Lays. 601 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:48,425 Yes, the style is a very refined style, but the subject matter is not at all. 602 00:41:48,509 --> 00:41:52,429 And so there's this odd contrast between subject matter and style. 603 00:41:55,516 --> 00:41:57,267 [woman] Maria drove the freeway. 604 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,188 She dressed every morning with a greater sense of purpose 605 00:42:01,271 --> 00:42:04,358 than she had felt in some time, for it was essential 606 00:42:04,441 --> 00:42:06,860 that she be on the freeway by ten o'clock. 607 00:42:08,111 --> 00:42:10,280 Not somewhere on Hollywood Boulevard, 608 00:42:10,364 --> 00:42:12,366 not on her way to the freeway, 609 00:42:12,866 --> 00:42:14,409 but actually on the freeway. 610 00:42:15,494 --> 00:42:18,372 If she was not, she lost the day's rhythm, 611 00:42:18,455 --> 00:42:21,041 its precariously imposed momentum. 612 00:42:22,793 --> 00:42:26,630 [Als] Maria is detached in the way that a reporter is detached. 613 00:42:27,506 --> 00:42:30,634 Play It As It Lays is about what Maria sees 614 00:42:30,717 --> 00:42:32,386 and what she feels 615 00:42:32,678 --> 00:42:35,389 which is... trying not to feel. 616 00:42:36,348 --> 00:42:38,600 Maria was quite a bit of myself. 617 00:42:40,227 --> 00:42:42,020 Obviously, not line for line. 618 00:42:45,983 --> 00:42:49,361 What Maria is going through in that book, she is coming to terms 619 00:42:49,444 --> 00:42:51,905 with the meaninglessness of experience. 620 00:42:52,614 --> 00:42:55,158 That's what everybody who lives in Los Angeles 621 00:42:55,242 --> 00:42:59,913 essentially has to come to terms with because none of it seems to mean anything. 622 00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:06,044 Once we moved to the beach, I felt particularly good. 623 00:43:07,504 --> 00:43:09,173 [Brokaw] Joan Didion lives hard by the sea 624 00:43:09,256 --> 00:43:11,842 about an hour's drive north of Los Angeles. 625 00:43:11,925 --> 00:43:15,053 She shares life along the coast of her native California 626 00:43:15,137 --> 00:43:18,390 with husband John Gregory Dunne, who is also a writer. 627 00:43:25,272 --> 00:43:28,692 [Joan] The day would start with John getting up and building a fire 628 00:43:28,775 --> 00:43:32,738 and making breakfast for Quintana and taking her to school. 629 00:43:36,241 --> 00:43:38,994 Then I would get up, have a Coca-Cola 630 00:43:39,077 --> 00:43:40,829 and start work. 631 00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:46,668 Everybody had their own thing. 632 00:44:14,363 --> 00:44:16,198 [Brokaw] How important is it to live here? 633 00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:18,867 I like to look at the horizon. 634 00:44:18,951 --> 00:44:20,869 I mean, that is nice. 635 00:44:21,620 --> 00:44:23,622 It is always there, flat. 636 00:44:24,206 --> 00:44:26,166 I like the way it feels here. 637 00:44:26,250 --> 00:44:29,837 [Brokaw] I got back to New York from the interview and wrote to her. 638 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,799 I sent it to "Joan Didion, somewhere in Malibu Beach." 639 00:44:33,882 --> 00:44:37,511 That was the address I had. 'Cause I didn't have anything with me. 640 00:44:37,678 --> 00:44:39,555 And she got it. [chuckles] 641 00:44:42,182 --> 00:44:44,643 [Ford] I was a carpenter to do a renovation 642 00:44:44,726 --> 00:44:48,689 and expansion of their home in Malibu overlooking the ocean. 643 00:44:49,481 --> 00:44:52,818 And I spent a couple of months there... 644 00:44:53,569 --> 00:44:57,197 in their house, first thing in the morning, last thing. 645 00:44:58,031 --> 00:44:59,408 The end of every day... 646 00:44:59,908 --> 00:45:02,619 explaining why we hadn't made more progress... 647 00:45:03,954 --> 00:45:06,290 and how it was gonna cost even more money. 648 00:45:08,584 --> 00:45:10,669 There was a room that was developed. 649 00:45:10,752 --> 00:45:12,629 And there were bookshelves. 650 00:45:14,798 --> 00:45:17,885 There were decks and a wall of doors and windows. 651 00:45:21,722 --> 00:45:23,182 I had a young family. 652 00:45:23,265 --> 00:45:26,852 I think I became their carpenter for the same reason I became 653 00:45:26,935 --> 00:45:28,937 their friend, is that I was, uh... 654 00:45:29,855 --> 00:45:31,064 out of my depth... 655 00:45:31,607 --> 00:45:32,649 kind of-- 656 00:45:35,319 --> 00:45:37,988 Didn't know where I was going, how I got there. 657 00:45:39,406 --> 00:45:41,700 Joan always had an Easter party. 658 00:45:43,076 --> 00:45:45,287 My family and I were always invited. 659 00:45:47,247 --> 00:45:50,209 I always felt everyone there was smarter than I was 660 00:45:50,292 --> 00:45:51,960 and more cultured than I was. 661 00:45:52,836 --> 00:45:56,673 But I was always made to feel welcome and comfortable. 662 00:45:59,092 --> 00:46:02,596 [Amy] It was not the way you think of Malibu. 663 00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:04,556 It was very out there. 664 00:46:04,973 --> 00:46:06,391 It was far away. 665 00:46:06,475 --> 00:46:08,852 And it was shacks. 666 00:46:08,936 --> 00:46:11,563 And it was small houses. 667 00:46:11,647 --> 00:46:14,816 And it was people living very separately. 668 00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:17,444 And it was very... 669 00:46:18,779 --> 00:46:20,989 [chuckles] Joan. 670 00:46:23,450 --> 00:46:26,495 Everybody and their brother showed up at this house. 671 00:46:26,578 --> 00:46:28,413 Brian De Palma, 672 00:46:28,497 --> 00:46:31,166 Steven Spielberg, Marty Scorsese, 673 00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:32,626 Warren Beatty. 674 00:46:32,709 --> 00:46:35,212 [Moore] Warren Beatty had a tremendous crush on Joan. 675 00:46:36,255 --> 00:46:38,507 She was well aware of it, as was John. 676 00:46:38,590 --> 00:46:39,967 And John used to-- 677 00:46:40,050 --> 00:46:42,219 John used to be very amused by it. 678 00:46:43,136 --> 00:46:45,973 And if I had a dinner party, Warren would say to me, 679 00:46:46,056 --> 00:46:49,142 "Please, please, will you put me next to Joan? Please." 680 00:46:50,227 --> 00:46:53,522 [Amy] It was a very hot atmosphere. 681 00:46:54,189 --> 00:46:56,149 I don't mean "hot" like "sex hot." 682 00:46:56,233 --> 00:46:59,319 I mean "hot" like... "creative hot." 683 00:46:59,778 --> 00:47:03,407 Everybody was talking movies. Everybody was arguing about movies. 684 00:47:04,616 --> 00:47:08,370 John, being the great raconteur that he was, 685 00:47:08,453 --> 00:47:11,957 he was gathering material, and Joan was gathering material. 686 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,794 And they actually were interested in what we thought. 687 00:47:15,878 --> 00:47:19,965 And they were interested in, uh, the ideas that we had. 688 00:47:21,717 --> 00:47:24,136 Fade in. Interior subway, day. 689 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,891 The camera holds very tight on her face 690 00:47:28,974 --> 00:47:31,560 as she hangs from a strap in the crowded subway. 691 00:47:31,935 --> 00:47:35,689 She looks ill, drawn, scarcely able to cling to the strap. 692 00:47:49,244 --> 00:47:52,289 [Joan] I had read this book by James Mills. 693 00:47:53,999 --> 00:47:57,419 It was developed from some pieces he'd done in LIFE. 694 00:47:58,337 --> 00:48:01,173 It just immediately said "movie" to me. 695 00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:05,010 I had John read it and Nick. 696 00:48:06,595 --> 00:48:09,139 Each of the three of us put in $1000. 697 00:48:11,475 --> 00:48:13,852 You had to go to the producer and-- 698 00:48:15,312 --> 00:48:17,481 And describe the movie in one sentence. 699 00:48:18,273 --> 00:48:21,568 And their sentence for Panic in Needle Park was 700 00:48:21,944 --> 00:48:24,821 "It's Romeo and Juliet, but they're junkies." 701 00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:34,039 [Dunne] When writing Play It As It Lays, did you see it as a movie? 702 00:48:34,122 --> 00:48:36,416 You surprised it was made into a movie? 703 00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:39,670 No, I wasn't surprised that it would be made into a movie. 704 00:48:39,753 --> 00:48:40,629 Um... 705 00:48:41,755 --> 00:48:43,882 I wish it was made into a better movie. 706 00:48:43,966 --> 00:48:48,011 It was just different. It was different. The characters were different. 707 00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:49,388 Uh... 708 00:48:50,264 --> 00:48:51,640 The point was different. 709 00:48:51,723 --> 00:48:54,977 Everything was different even though I wrote the screenplay. 710 00:48:55,310 --> 00:48:56,937 [crowd laughing] 711 00:48:59,273 --> 00:49:02,818 [John] We work in films in an odd way. One of us writes the first draft, 712 00:49:03,151 --> 00:49:06,280 and the other functions as really kind of a super-editor 713 00:49:06,363 --> 00:49:08,198 and writes the second draft. 714 00:49:09,283 --> 00:49:12,953 In the end, you can't really tell who has done what. 715 00:49:14,121 --> 00:49:18,375 Writing scripts allows us to do other things. Writing scripts is also fun. 716 00:49:19,084 --> 00:49:22,963 [Trillin] I suppose if they had... a religious belief, 717 00:49:23,046 --> 00:49:26,133 it was in the Writers Guild medical insurance. 718 00:49:27,050 --> 00:49:30,429 They spoke about the Writers Guild medical insurance 719 00:49:30,512 --> 00:49:33,140 almost in reverential tones. 720 00:49:33,557 --> 00:49:36,768 When they discussed it, it was like in almost hushed tones. 721 00:49:36,852 --> 00:49:40,022 The Writers Guild, "Medical insurance. Oh." 722 00:49:41,273 --> 00:49:44,985 [Brokaw] You've written fiction, and you have written truth. 723 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:46,612 Why do you write films? 724 00:49:46,695 --> 00:49:49,239 I like it. It's fun. It's not like writing. 725 00:49:49,489 --> 00:49:52,284 -Pays good money. -It's like making notes for a, uh-- 726 00:49:52,659 --> 00:49:54,328 Making notes for a director. 727 00:49:55,245 --> 00:49:56,288 It's a-- 728 00:49:57,247 --> 00:49:59,291 It's an entirely other form of, uh-- 729 00:50:01,251 --> 00:50:03,253 Of, uh, something to do. 730 00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:05,589 -It is. -It also helps finance 731 00:50:05,672 --> 00:50:07,549 -what you really like to do. -Yeah. 732 00:50:08,008 --> 00:50:10,260 -To write books. -No doubt about that. 733 00:50:10,844 --> 00:50:13,722 This book, Book of Common Prayer, is very complicated 734 00:50:13,805 --> 00:50:17,267 with a lot of layers, and yet it all flows to a common point. 735 00:50:17,851 --> 00:50:21,897 When you write a book like that, do you keep notes over a period of time 736 00:50:21,980 --> 00:50:26,527 and then begin to see the story unfold in your mind? 737 00:50:26,985 --> 00:50:28,612 It unfolds as you write it. 738 00:50:29,363 --> 00:50:33,033 I mean, that's something I never believed before I wrote a book... 739 00:50:33,116 --> 00:50:35,077 Um, but it does. 740 00:50:36,370 --> 00:50:39,039 [Wanger] Well, as you know, 741 00:50:39,122 --> 00:50:41,416 Joan's a complete perfectionist. 742 00:50:42,501 --> 00:50:46,171 If she's thinking about something and feels she's stuck, 743 00:50:46,255 --> 00:50:47,840 she'll put it in the freezer. 744 00:50:48,966 --> 00:50:51,426 -Do you know that? -[Dunne] That's not a metaphor? 745 00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:53,387 -That's-- -No, in the freezer. 746 00:50:54,096 --> 00:50:57,599 -She would put the book--? -The manuscript in the freezer, 747 00:50:57,683 --> 00:51:00,561 in a bag, and, um, then go back to it. 748 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,027 [woman] The morning the FBI men came to the house on California Street, 749 00:51:09,111 --> 00:51:11,029 Charlotte did not understand why. 750 00:51:12,072 --> 00:51:15,284 She had read newspaper accounts of the events they recited, 751 00:51:15,450 --> 00:51:18,787 she listened attentively to everything they said, 752 00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:23,458 but she could make no connection between the pitiless revolutionist 753 00:51:23,542 --> 00:51:25,794 they described and her daughter Marin. 754 00:51:26,420 --> 00:51:30,382 Who, at 7, had stood on a chair to make her own breakfast... 755 00:51:30,757 --> 00:51:33,969 and wept helplessly when asked to clean her closet. 756 00:51:35,512 --> 00:51:36,346 Sweet Marin. 757 00:51:37,472 --> 00:51:40,851 Or so the two FBI men tried to tell Charlotte. 758 00:51:43,562 --> 00:51:47,691 [Joan] I realized... some years after A Book of Common Prayer was finished... 759 00:51:47,774 --> 00:51:48,734 [man] Mm-hm. 760 00:51:48,817 --> 00:51:51,403 [Joan] I realized that it was a-- That is was about my... 761 00:51:52,070 --> 00:51:55,115 anticipating Quintana was growing up. 762 00:51:56,575 --> 00:51:58,994 -I was anticipating separation. -[man] Her leaving. 763 00:51:59,077 --> 00:52:01,955 Yeah, and so I was actually working through... 764 00:52:02,706 --> 00:52:05,209 -that separation ahead of time. -Mm-hm. 765 00:52:08,837 --> 00:52:12,508 So, novels are also about things you're afraid you can't deal with. 766 00:52:16,929 --> 00:52:20,098 I realized Play It As It Lays had been about mothers and daughters, 767 00:52:20,182 --> 00:52:24,478 on a certain level, as Common Prayer is about a mother and a daughter... 768 00:52:25,938 --> 00:52:28,815 and the separation between them. 769 00:52:29,983 --> 00:52:32,694 In that sense that a novel is a cautionary tale... 770 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,365 if you tell the story and work it out all right, 771 00:52:36,448 --> 00:52:38,158 then it won't happen to you. 772 00:52:44,915 --> 00:52:48,168 [Als] After The White Album, were you interested in moving away 773 00:52:48,460 --> 00:52:52,381 -from the personal into the larger world? -[Joan] I was bored with it, yeah. 774 00:52:52,464 --> 00:52:54,216 I wanted to move into... 775 00:52:55,425 --> 00:52:57,845 stuff that was beginning to interest me more. 776 00:53:00,097 --> 00:53:02,766 It was a hard transition to make until I found... 777 00:53:03,267 --> 00:53:04,351 The New York Review. 778 00:53:07,020 --> 00:53:09,857 I asked her, I said, "How did you... 779 00:53:11,483 --> 00:53:14,820 start writing these pieces about politics and... 780 00:53:15,445 --> 00:53:19,908 Salvador and Miami and so on, because you talked about how insecure you were." 781 00:53:19,992 --> 00:53:22,286 She said, "Bob Silvers." 782 00:53:23,328 --> 00:53:27,040 That was her answer, was that he gave her the confidence 783 00:53:27,124 --> 00:53:30,127 to not even question her doing it. 784 00:53:30,627 --> 00:53:34,464 [Silvers] I remember reading some of her things, I believe, in LIFE magazine 785 00:53:34,548 --> 00:53:37,134 where she was a kind of special correspondent, 786 00:53:37,217 --> 00:53:40,012 and I thought, "What a fresh... voice." 787 00:53:40,095 --> 00:53:42,472 [Dunne] But she hadn't written about domestic politics 788 00:53:42,556 --> 00:53:44,391 or from war zones before. 789 00:53:44,558 --> 00:53:46,476 How did you know she could do that? 790 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,521 Well, just from talking to her and reading her work, 791 00:53:49,605 --> 00:53:53,108 I saw that she was immensely knowledgeable, perceptive. 792 00:53:54,067 --> 00:53:55,235 A sharp observer. 793 00:53:55,944 --> 00:53:59,948 And I wanted to know, as a matter of my own curiosity 794 00:54:00,032 --> 00:54:03,285 as an editor and as a friend, what she thought. 795 00:54:04,286 --> 00:54:05,996 [Joan] Have you ever visited a morgue? 796 00:54:06,246 --> 00:54:09,333 I remember spending some time in the L.A. County morgue, 797 00:54:09,416 --> 00:54:13,962 and immediately the minute you walk in, you make an accommodation so that... 798 00:54:15,172 --> 00:54:18,133 if a body suddenly presents itself to you 799 00:54:18,217 --> 00:54:20,302 or touches you, you're not going to-- 800 00:54:20,969 --> 00:54:24,848 Or if you have to watch an autopsy, you're not going to get sick. Um... 801 00:54:25,682 --> 00:54:28,477 And I think that's what's happened in El Salvador. 802 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,562 It's quite a brutalizing experience. 803 00:54:36,068 --> 00:54:38,737 [Silvers] There was a-- This awful civil war in Salvador. 804 00:54:40,322 --> 00:54:43,825 The Americans were supporting a very, very brutal... 805 00:54:44,826 --> 00:54:45,911 terrible government. 806 00:54:47,329 --> 00:54:50,582 We talked about it and the idea was that she would go there. 807 00:54:50,666 --> 00:54:51,959 She wanted to go there. 808 00:54:52,543 --> 00:54:54,253 She wanted to get in on that. 809 00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,423 [Joan] You'd pick up the paper and these horror stories would be there 810 00:54:58,507 --> 00:55:01,260 and you kind of had to get to the bottom of them. 811 00:55:02,135 --> 00:55:04,221 -[Dunne] Was it dangerous? -What, El Salvador? 812 00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:09,184 It-- It was the most dangerous place I've ever-- I ever hope to be. 813 00:55:09,393 --> 00:55:11,228 I mean, it was terrifying. 814 00:55:18,277 --> 00:55:21,196 I had never covered American politics. 815 00:55:22,906 --> 00:55:26,952 It simply was outside my whole interest range. 816 00:55:33,417 --> 00:55:35,752 It seemed to exist only to maintain itself. 817 00:55:36,128 --> 00:55:38,672 I mean, it didn't seem to have any relationship 818 00:55:38,797 --> 00:55:41,800 with the people who hung around gas stations. 819 00:55:41,884 --> 00:55:44,887 It didn't seem to connect with the rest of the country. 820 00:55:52,561 --> 00:55:55,272 [woman] They tend to speak a language common in Washington 821 00:55:55,355 --> 00:55:57,941 but not specifically shared by the rest of us. 822 00:56:01,904 --> 00:56:04,698 They talk about programs and policy 823 00:56:04,781 --> 00:56:07,826 and how to implement them. Or about trade-offs 824 00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:11,079 and constituencies and positioning the candidate... 825 00:56:11,705 --> 00:56:13,457 and distancing the candidate... 826 00:56:15,209 --> 00:56:17,878 about the story and how it will play. 827 00:56:19,630 --> 00:56:23,842 They speak of a candidate's performance, by which they usually mean his skill 828 00:56:23,926 --> 00:56:25,636 at circumventing questions. 829 00:56:26,053 --> 00:56:29,014 Not as citizens, but as professional insiders... 830 00:56:29,598 --> 00:56:33,101 attuned to signals pitched beyond the range of normal hearing. 831 00:56:37,356 --> 00:56:39,274 [Silvers] Her piece on Cheney... 832 00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:42,861 is enormously foreseeing... 833 00:56:43,862 --> 00:56:45,239 of the whole course... 834 00:56:45,697 --> 00:56:48,325 of Bush politics and the Iraq war. 835 00:56:51,870 --> 00:56:55,207 She undertook to write about the Bush administration, 836 00:56:55,290 --> 00:56:58,669 the Bush war and, above all, Cheney, who she saw... 837 00:56:59,503 --> 00:57:01,713 as a decisive... 838 00:57:02,673 --> 00:57:03,590 and bullying... 839 00:57:04,299 --> 00:57:08,762 and really quite brilliantly evil figure. 840 00:57:11,598 --> 00:57:14,768 [woman] Cheney reached public life with every reason to believe 841 00:57:14,852 --> 00:57:18,230 that he would continue to both court failure and overcome it. 842 00:57:19,398 --> 00:57:24,152 Take the lemons he seemed determined to pick for himself and make the lemonade... 843 00:57:26,405 --> 00:57:27,281 then spill it... 844 00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:31,618 then let somebody else clean it up. 845 00:57:40,961 --> 00:57:44,339 "Wilding." New York City police say that's new teenage slang 846 00:57:44,423 --> 00:57:48,468 for rampaging in wolf packs, attacking people just for the fun of it. 847 00:57:50,095 --> 00:57:53,599 [woman] A woman jogging in New York's Central Park last Wednesday night, 848 00:57:53,682 --> 00:57:55,517 raped and nearly beaten to death. 849 00:57:55,851 --> 00:57:58,478 She is a white Wall Street investment banker. 850 00:57:59,104 --> 00:58:02,941 Police said the youths were joking about the crime in their jail cell. 851 00:58:03,775 --> 00:58:06,612 [Dunne] What drew you to the Central Park jogger case? 852 00:58:06,695 --> 00:58:09,072 [Joan] Oh, it was just a natural story for me. 853 00:58:09,156 --> 00:58:10,782 Everything about that story... 854 00:58:12,409 --> 00:58:13,327 was a lie. 855 00:58:14,036 --> 00:58:18,248 She was deeply suspicious about how everyone was leaping into this-- 856 00:58:20,167 --> 00:58:23,462 These-- This double image of evil and good. 857 00:58:23,545 --> 00:58:25,255 To understand is to forgive. 858 00:58:25,631 --> 00:58:28,759 I don't wanna understand what motivates 859 00:58:28,842 --> 00:58:32,304 someone, uh, to engage in this kind of horror. 860 00:58:32,387 --> 00:58:35,349 Calling us animals is not going to get problems solved 861 00:58:35,432 --> 00:58:39,436 -and this is what we want to do. -You better believe I hate the people 862 00:58:39,811 --> 00:58:42,731 that took this girl and raped her brutally. 863 00:58:42,814 --> 00:58:44,024 You better believe it. 864 00:58:49,363 --> 00:58:51,823 [Als] One vision, shared by those 865 00:58:52,241 --> 00:58:54,785 who had seized upon the attack on the jogger 866 00:58:55,118 --> 00:58:58,830 as an exact representation of what was wrong with the city... 867 00:58:59,540 --> 00:59:04,628 was of a city systematically ruined, violated, raped by its underclass. 868 00:59:06,004 --> 00:59:09,675 The opposing vision, shared by those who had seized upon the arrest 869 00:59:09,758 --> 00:59:12,970 of the defendants as an exact representation 870 00:59:13,345 --> 00:59:15,389 of their own victimization, 871 00:59:15,556 --> 00:59:19,560 was of a city in which the powerless had been systematically ruined, 872 00:59:19,768 --> 00:59:22,145 violated, raped by the powerful. 873 00:59:25,190 --> 00:59:28,485 I was just this kid living in Flatbush... 874 00:59:28,735 --> 00:59:31,780 um, reading these very elegant words. 875 00:59:32,364 --> 00:59:36,743 When you're on that side of being described based on your skin color, 876 00:59:36,827 --> 00:59:38,745 you read very cynically. 877 00:59:39,746 --> 00:59:43,917 And so I read reports in the New York Post, the Daily News, 878 00:59:44,001 --> 00:59:48,213 TheNew York Times, very cynically. And it was almost as if I was waiting... 879 00:59:48,547 --> 00:59:51,967 for Joan to write the piece that I needed to read. 880 00:59:52,467 --> 00:59:55,637 Um... Because it was something that... 881 00:59:56,805 --> 01:00:00,809 any reasonable person, once they had stripped-- 882 01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,355 Um, as she would say, the narrative of its rhetoric-- 883 01:00:05,439 --> 01:00:09,568 Um, the story was of old grievances, right? 884 01:00:09,651 --> 01:00:11,737 Old political grievances in the city. 885 01:00:23,916 --> 01:00:28,045 [Joan] I, myself, have always found that if I examine something, 886 01:00:28,462 --> 01:00:29,505 it's less scary. 887 01:00:31,006 --> 01:00:34,927 We always had this theory that if you kept a snake in your eye line... 888 01:00:35,302 --> 01:00:37,054 the snake wasn't gonna bite you. 889 01:00:38,180 --> 01:00:39,556 That's kind of the way... 890 01:00:40,766 --> 01:00:43,393 I feel about confronting pain. 891 01:00:44,895 --> 01:00:46,271 I wanna know where it is. 892 01:00:49,483 --> 01:00:51,944 [woman] The doctor told you, "John, the ticker's bad"? 893 01:00:52,027 --> 01:00:54,321 The ticker is bad and that I was 894 01:00:54,404 --> 01:00:57,866 a candidate for a cardiovascular catastrophe. 895 01:00:58,242 --> 01:01:02,496 And, uh, so, it tends to focus and concentrate the mind very well, 896 01:01:02,579 --> 01:01:04,164 so, I began to think about... 897 01:01:05,332 --> 01:01:09,419 who I was, how I got to this point and how it affected my life as a writer. 898 01:01:15,801 --> 01:01:17,553 [Dunne] What made you move to New York? 899 01:01:18,387 --> 01:01:19,555 [Joan] John wanted to move. 900 01:01:21,223 --> 01:01:23,058 He was restless. 901 01:01:23,642 --> 01:01:25,143 He felt as if he was stale. 902 01:01:25,978 --> 01:01:28,397 His plan was to spend more time in New York. 903 01:01:31,817 --> 01:01:33,485 [Dunne] You have a little resentment? 904 01:01:33,569 --> 01:01:36,613 [Joan] Actually, we never had any of those feelings. 905 01:01:37,197 --> 01:01:40,200 People found it hard to believe, but neither John nor I 906 01:01:40,284 --> 01:01:42,619 was ever jealous of the other's work. 907 01:01:45,581 --> 01:01:47,791 [Trillin] I was happy to see him back in New York. 908 01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:55,465 His exercise was walking in Central Park in the mornings. 909 01:01:59,970 --> 01:02:03,640 Sometimes he'd picked up, not only the gossip from the dinner party 910 01:02:03,724 --> 01:02:08,145 the night before, but the gossip from whoever he ran into in Central Park. 911 01:02:10,105 --> 01:02:11,940 [Dunne] John would roll his calls every morning 912 01:02:12,024 --> 01:02:14,401 with fresh gossip to a group of his friends. 913 01:02:15,611 --> 01:02:19,656 And if any one of us had gossip for him, he would yell "Joan, pick up!" 914 01:02:20,282 --> 01:02:22,451 Even though her office was next door. 915 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,955 But if he did that... the gossip had to be really good. 916 01:02:30,792 --> 01:02:33,795 [Trillin] When my wife was alive, we were couple friends. 917 01:02:35,422 --> 01:02:37,299 We often went to dinner with them. 918 01:02:44,348 --> 01:02:46,517 Among all the married couples I knew... 919 01:02:47,184 --> 01:02:50,521 they were the ones who were almost always together. 920 01:02:51,813 --> 01:02:52,731 I always said... 921 01:02:54,107 --> 01:02:57,277 they-- They're the sort of married couple that... 922 01:02:58,654 --> 01:03:00,447 finished each other's sentences. 923 01:03:00,531 --> 01:03:04,618 Although, John finishes Joan's sentences 924 01:03:04,701 --> 01:03:06,995 more than Joan finishes John's sentences. 925 01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:10,582 When you talked to them on the phone, you realized 926 01:03:10,791 --> 01:03:13,252 they were just sitting across from each other. 927 01:03:15,963 --> 01:03:19,591 [Joan] People often said that he finished sentences for me, well, he did. 928 01:03:20,926 --> 01:03:22,719 He was between me and the world. 929 01:03:23,762 --> 01:03:27,307 He not only answered the telephone, he finished my sentences. 930 01:03:28,517 --> 01:03:31,436 He was the baffle between me and the world at large. 931 01:03:38,944 --> 01:03:41,822 You know how children are, they always feel left out. 932 01:03:45,158 --> 01:03:49,413 Once, we talked about what kind of mother I had been, and... 933 01:03:50,706 --> 01:03:52,124 she, to my surprise... 934 01:03:52,916 --> 01:03:55,752 said, "You were okay, but you were a little remote." 935 01:03:58,213 --> 01:04:01,842 I didn't think this at the time. I didn't see how it was possible, 936 01:04:01,925 --> 01:04:04,636 because her father and I so clearly needed her. 937 01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:13,145 Which is kind of the way we tend to deal with our children. 938 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,360 Later, we realized that maybe we haven't been listening to them at all. 939 01:04:23,614 --> 01:04:27,284 We'd been listening to the very edge of what they say... 940 01:04:28,035 --> 01:04:29,953 without letting it sink in. 941 01:04:36,210 --> 01:04:39,421 -[Dunne] And Q got married. -[Joan] Mm-hm. 942 01:04:39,505 --> 01:04:41,882 [Dunne] How soon after they met did they get married? 943 01:04:42,007 --> 01:04:42,841 [Joan] Quite soon. 944 01:04:43,675 --> 01:04:45,886 I wonder if you were concerned about her. 945 01:04:45,969 --> 01:04:47,513 We were concerned about her. 946 01:04:48,639 --> 01:04:49,473 But... 947 01:04:50,599 --> 01:04:53,268 not so much that she was getting married. 948 01:04:54,353 --> 01:04:57,022 That seemed like-- At that moment, it seemed like 949 01:04:57,105 --> 01:04:59,733 a good... thing for her to do. 950 01:05:03,987 --> 01:05:06,573 What was--? What more were you concerned about? 951 01:05:06,990 --> 01:05:10,369 I was concerned because she was drinking too much. That was... 952 01:05:11,453 --> 01:05:12,412 the first concern. 953 01:05:15,582 --> 01:05:19,253 [Susan] She called me and said, you know, "I-- I-- Susan, I-- I have this-- 954 01:05:19,378 --> 01:05:21,046 I have a new boyfriend." 955 01:05:21,630 --> 01:05:24,550 And I said, "Oh, wow, well, that's fantastic." 956 01:05:24,633 --> 01:05:28,470 And she said, "Oh, my God, he's-- He's just amazing and I'm so happy," 957 01:05:28,554 --> 01:05:31,390 and I said, "Well, where--? Where did you meet him?" 958 01:05:32,140 --> 01:05:35,686 She said, "You're not gonna like it." And I said, "Well, what?" 959 01:05:35,769 --> 01:05:40,315 She said, "Well, he works at a bar down-- That I go to sometimes." 960 01:05:41,692 --> 01:05:46,321 "My parents love him, my dad-- They're really happy for me." 961 01:05:47,322 --> 01:05:49,575 She said, "If you take this away from me, 962 01:05:49,658 --> 01:05:52,744 this is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. 963 01:05:52,828 --> 01:05:55,497 I really-- I don't even think I can-- I can... 964 01:05:57,499 --> 01:05:58,584 talk to you... 965 01:06:00,043 --> 01:06:02,087 if you can't be happy for me." 966 01:06:33,243 --> 01:06:36,997 [Lynn] Oh, they were so pleased and happy, and Quintana looked so happy. 967 01:06:39,124 --> 01:06:43,420 Everything seemed to be going so well, and then we all, 968 01:06:43,504 --> 01:06:47,925 you know, trooped over to the parish part of the house 969 01:06:48,008 --> 01:06:49,718 for a little wedding reception. 970 01:07:01,772 --> 01:07:04,483 [Joan] We wished them happiness, we wished them health... 971 01:07:05,192 --> 01:07:08,403 we wished them love and luck and beautiful children. 972 01:07:17,287 --> 01:07:21,667 On that wedding day, July 26th, 2003... 973 01:07:22,501 --> 01:07:25,754 we could see no reason to think that such ordinary blessings 974 01:07:25,838 --> 01:07:27,256 would not come their way. 975 01:07:29,007 --> 01:07:30,008 Do notice... 976 01:07:30,717 --> 01:07:33,971 we still counted happiness and health and love and luck 977 01:07:34,054 --> 01:07:37,015 and beautiful children as ordinary blessings. 978 01:07:46,191 --> 01:07:50,237 Quintana had been too sick on Christmas Eve to come to dinner. 979 01:07:51,613 --> 01:07:56,159 In the morning she called and said she could hardly breathe. 980 01:07:57,244 --> 01:08:00,080 She had gone to the emergency room the night before, 981 01:08:00,163 --> 01:08:02,332 but it was back again. 982 01:08:03,333 --> 01:08:05,460 By the time she got to the hospital... 983 01:08:06,628 --> 01:08:08,964 she was in need of dramatic care. 984 01:08:10,757 --> 01:08:12,342 She was very near death then. 985 01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,639 Quintana had been taken in with-- With something that seemed... 986 01:08:18,974 --> 01:08:22,269 not that serious, like the flu, or-- Or something like that. 987 01:08:22,352 --> 01:08:26,023 But it had quickly developed into-- Into something else, and she... 988 01:08:26,440 --> 01:08:27,357 um... 989 01:08:27,649 --> 01:08:29,735 was in the ICU, and she was-- 990 01:08:29,818 --> 01:08:33,655 She had a tube down her throat for breathing and-- And, um... 991 01:08:35,115 --> 01:08:35,991 Um... 992 01:08:36,617 --> 01:08:38,577 So, when-- And John... 993 01:08:39,912 --> 01:08:43,874 talked about all that, and talked about it in detail, but, um... 994 01:08:43,957 --> 01:08:48,962 His voice just sounded different from any time I'd ever heard it. 995 01:08:49,046 --> 01:08:52,716 John's voice just started to break and I've-- I've never... 996 01:08:53,342 --> 01:08:54,301 um... 997 01:08:56,178 --> 01:08:58,639 I had never heard him like that. 998 01:08:58,722 --> 01:09:01,558 He was sobbing and saying, you know, 999 01:09:01,642 --> 01:09:04,311 "Quintana is so sick, I just don't know-- 1000 01:09:04,394 --> 01:09:05,896 I'm just so worried." 1001 01:09:10,943 --> 01:09:11,985 [Joan] We sat down. 1002 01:09:12,569 --> 01:09:14,696 My attention was on mixing the salad. 1003 01:09:15,364 --> 01:09:17,324 John was talking, then he wasn't. 1004 01:09:18,742 --> 01:09:21,745 His left hand was raised and he was slumped motionless. 1005 01:09:23,372 --> 01:09:25,290 I remember saying, "Don't do that." 1006 01:09:26,625 --> 01:09:30,796 When he did not respond, my first thought was he started to eat and choked. 1007 01:09:31,505 --> 01:09:34,591 I remember trying to lift him from the back of the chair 1008 01:09:34,675 --> 01:09:36,051 to give him the Heimlich. 1009 01:09:36,844 --> 01:09:39,304 I remember the sense of his weight as he fell. 1010 01:09:39,388 --> 01:09:41,723 First against the table, then to the floor. 1011 01:09:43,308 --> 01:09:45,352 [Lynn] That night I got a call saying... 1012 01:09:46,436 --> 01:09:50,607 "Listen, uh, I just spoke to Nick Dunne, I have something terrible to tell you." 1013 01:09:50,691 --> 01:09:53,151 And I said, "Oh, my God, Quintana died." 1014 01:09:54,111 --> 01:09:57,614 And she paused and she said, "No, not Quintana, but John." 1015 01:10:00,534 --> 01:10:02,077 [Joan] On the night that he died... 1016 01:10:02,536 --> 01:10:03,579 I came back here. 1017 01:10:05,372 --> 01:10:07,416 There was... not much-- 1018 01:10:08,792 --> 01:10:12,462 There was not much else to-- To do, you know? I called your father. 1019 01:10:13,255 --> 01:10:14,965 That was the first thing I did. 1020 01:10:16,592 --> 01:10:17,467 And... 1021 01:10:19,428 --> 01:10:22,639 I had that obligatory conversation and... 1022 01:10:24,308 --> 01:10:25,184 then... 1023 01:10:28,145 --> 01:10:28,979 that was it. 1024 01:10:34,234 --> 01:10:37,404 [Tony] After John died, you know, it was-- It was like a-- 1025 01:10:38,572 --> 01:10:40,866 It wasn't like an Irish wake, it was like a Shiva. 1026 01:10:41,575 --> 01:10:44,286 There were people at the house... 1027 01:10:45,871 --> 01:10:48,207 all the time, until you told them to leave. 1028 01:10:49,958 --> 01:10:52,669 [Trillin] I was up there a lot for the next couple of weeks. 1029 01:10:53,253 --> 01:10:56,215 Her daughter was in-- Still in intensive care and-- 1030 01:10:56,298 --> 01:10:57,674 And John was gone. 1031 01:10:59,301 --> 01:11:02,638 And I remember we were all concerned she wouldn't eat and I-- 1032 01:11:04,181 --> 01:11:06,099 I found that she would eat congee. 1033 01:11:06,975 --> 01:11:10,187 Uh, so, I would go to Chinatown and get congee, 1034 01:11:10,270 --> 01:11:13,357 which is sort of a-- A rice porridge. 1035 01:11:14,149 --> 01:11:17,653 And finally she said, "Calvin, I think we've had enough congee." 1036 01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,824 [Tony] By that time, I had gotten married to Rosemary. 1037 01:11:23,825 --> 01:11:25,869 We lived around the corner. 1038 01:11:26,578 --> 01:11:30,040 Often, Rosemary would come over, but this particular night... 1039 01:11:30,457 --> 01:11:31,542 uh... 1040 01:11:31,625 --> 01:11:33,794 which I think was fairly early in the-- 1041 01:11:34,628 --> 01:11:35,462 In the going... 1042 01:11:36,046 --> 01:11:39,258 we went into, uh, John's office 1043 01:11:39,842 --> 01:11:41,844 and Joan opened one of the closets. 1044 01:11:42,261 --> 01:11:45,430 She was just standing there, thinking for a while. 1045 01:11:46,014 --> 01:11:50,394 I'm looking at all this stuff assuming we're both thinking the same thing, 1046 01:11:50,477 --> 01:11:53,355 that you have to get rid of these clothes eventually. 1047 01:11:55,107 --> 01:11:57,234 She said, "But what if he comes back?" 1048 01:11:59,570 --> 01:12:00,404 And... 1049 01:12:01,989 --> 01:12:04,032 all I remember is that... 1050 01:12:05,409 --> 01:12:08,829 at that moment, it didn't seem far-fetched to me at all. 1051 01:12:10,163 --> 01:12:11,874 In fact, it seemed plausible. 1052 01:12:14,126 --> 01:12:16,587 [Susan] There couldn't be a funeral for John 1053 01:12:16,670 --> 01:12:19,339 until Quintana was well enough to go to it. 1054 01:12:19,965 --> 01:12:21,925 For the funeral she was not-- 1055 01:12:23,260 --> 01:12:26,013 You know, she didn't seem too strong. 1056 01:12:26,430 --> 01:12:28,056 -Yeah. -You know, then. 1057 01:12:28,849 --> 01:12:29,683 And, uh... 1058 01:12:31,393 --> 01:12:34,354 you know, she made a plan to-- To go to Los Angeles... 1059 01:12:34,938 --> 01:12:36,857 -the next day. -I hate to say, 1060 01:12:36,940 --> 01:12:40,986 but I encouraged her to go to Los Angeles, I thought it'd be good for her. 1061 01:12:44,114 --> 01:12:45,657 I mean, I was totally wrong. 1062 01:12:48,744 --> 01:12:51,455 On the other hand, it could've been a pretty idea. 1063 01:12:51,538 --> 01:12:52,956 The day in Malibu, right? 1064 01:12:53,540 --> 01:12:54,541 But it wasn't. 1065 01:12:55,375 --> 01:12:57,920 [Dunne] That's what she wanted? To go to Malibu where-- 1066 01:12:58,003 --> 01:12:58,837 [Joan] Yeah. 1067 01:12:59,046 --> 01:13:01,089 [Dunne] Where she was raised. Yeah, of course. 1068 01:13:02,841 --> 01:13:05,969 She came off the plane and fell and hit her head and-- 1069 01:13:06,512 --> 01:13:08,805 You know, she thought she was okay and-- 1070 01:13:08,889 --> 01:13:11,058 -As those kind of brain injuries, -[Dunne] Mm-hm. 1071 01:13:11,141 --> 01:13:12,559 suddenly, she wasn't okay. 1072 01:13:14,728 --> 01:13:17,439 [Dunne] The fall at the airport sent Quintana into a coma. 1073 01:13:19,316 --> 01:13:21,360 Two years of rehabilitation followed, 1074 01:13:21,818 --> 01:13:24,404 but at the end, she lost her will to fight back 1075 01:13:24,488 --> 01:13:26,281 and her health rapidly declined. 1076 01:13:29,159 --> 01:13:31,328 That summer, she just finally let go. 1077 01:13:47,344 --> 01:13:50,889 [Joan] Grief turns out to be a place none of us know until we reach it. 1078 01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:03,819 We know that someone close to us could die. 1079 01:14:05,070 --> 01:14:06,905 We might expect to feel shock. 1080 01:14:09,241 --> 01:14:11,785 We do not expect this shock to be obliterative, 1081 01:14:11,869 --> 01:14:14,371 dislocating to both body and mind. 1082 01:14:21,295 --> 01:14:23,922 We might expect to be prostrate, 1083 01:14:24,506 --> 01:14:27,176 inconsolable, crazy with loss. 1084 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:31,096 We do not expect to be literally crazy. 1085 01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:36,018 Cool customers who believe their husband is about to return and need his shoes. 1086 01:14:37,978 --> 01:14:42,065 Nor can we know the unending absence that follows, the void... 1087 01:14:44,234 --> 01:14:47,863 the relentless succession of moments during which we will confront 1088 01:14:47,946 --> 01:14:50,782 the experience of meaninglessness itself. 1089 01:15:03,378 --> 01:15:05,297 The reason I had to write it down 1090 01:15:05,380 --> 01:15:07,799 was nobody had ever told me what it was like. 1091 01:15:10,844 --> 01:15:16,099 It was a coping mechanism, it turned out, but I didn't plan it that way. 1092 01:15:21,188 --> 01:15:23,315 [Wanger] The manuscript kind of just showed up. 1093 01:15:26,818 --> 01:15:31,615 I knew she was working on something, but she doesn't really talk about 1094 01:15:31,698 --> 01:15:32,908 what she's working on. 1095 01:15:35,994 --> 01:15:39,665 I took it home, and, well, you can imagine, it was-- 1096 01:15:39,957 --> 01:15:42,835 It was an incredible thing and unexpected. 1097 01:15:43,669 --> 01:15:44,545 Uh... 1098 01:15:45,128 --> 01:15:47,840 And I-- I think she felt she had to do this. 1099 01:15:47,923 --> 01:15:52,219 This was-- She had to kind of get it down to understand it... 1100 01:15:53,595 --> 01:15:57,140 as what-- But it was amazing the two events happening, you know? 1101 01:15:57,224 --> 01:15:58,559 John and then Quintana. 1102 01:15:58,642 --> 01:16:01,228 And, of course, Quintana is not in the book, 1103 01:16:01,311 --> 01:16:04,815 even though she had died that August 1104 01:16:04,898 --> 01:16:06,525 and I got the book in October. 1105 01:16:09,862 --> 01:16:11,738 [Hare] It's the first book about grief... 1106 01:16:12,948 --> 01:16:14,157 not by a believer. 1107 01:16:16,785 --> 01:16:20,873 Joan Didion, goodness knows, believes in human achievement. 1108 01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:26,420 For someone with that perspective to write about coming up 1109 01:16:26,503 --> 01:16:30,174 against this great big wall of loss, 1110 01:16:30,340 --> 01:16:35,053 void, the person she loved most in the world disappearing... 1111 01:16:36,221 --> 01:16:38,640 speaks to a whole section of people 1112 01:16:38,724 --> 01:16:43,645 who have had nothing to read at all on that subject. 1113 01:16:45,355 --> 01:16:47,274 [Tony] Who knows what to do or how to do it? 1114 01:16:48,192 --> 01:16:52,696 You could be grieving your wife, who died a month ago... 1115 01:16:54,531 --> 01:16:57,618 and everybody else has moved on... 1116 01:16:59,453 --> 01:17:01,830 and everything is normal. 1117 01:17:02,873 --> 01:17:06,210 A matter of months has gone by, and I guess 1118 01:17:06,293 --> 01:17:08,670 you're supposed to be just normal. 1119 01:17:14,593 --> 01:17:18,722 [Als] Again, she wasn't writing through the haze of romanticism... 1120 01:17:21,183 --> 01:17:25,521 she was writing through the deeply felt poignancy 1121 01:17:25,604 --> 01:17:29,066 of someone who could report on grief. 1122 01:17:34,738 --> 01:17:38,659 It's the hardest thing to write about. She did it as a reporter. 1123 01:17:44,248 --> 01:17:47,501 She did it as the quote-unquote "the Joan Didion" character 1124 01:17:47,584 --> 01:17:50,879 of the novels in a true story about grief. 1125 01:17:52,422 --> 01:17:54,883 [Joan] I think the hardest thing was finishing it. 1126 01:17:54,967 --> 01:17:57,344 Because, for as long as I was writing it... 1127 01:17:58,011 --> 01:18:00,514 I was in touch with him in some way, you know? 1128 01:18:03,517 --> 01:18:05,227 [Rose] And when you finished the book? 1129 01:18:12,276 --> 01:18:14,820 [Joan] "We all know that if we are to live, ourselves, 1130 01:18:14,903 --> 01:18:17,739 there comes a time when we must relinquish our dead. 1131 01:18:18,115 --> 01:18:19,992 Let them go, keep them dead. 1132 01:18:20,784 --> 01:18:22,327 Let go of them in the water. 1133 01:18:24,746 --> 01:18:27,124 Let them become the photograph on the table. 1134 01:18:30,919 --> 01:18:34,882 Knowing this does not make it any easier to let go of them in the water. 1135 01:18:39,052 --> 01:18:42,431 I did not want the year after either of them died to end. 1136 01:18:46,768 --> 01:18:50,105 I knew that as the second year began and the days passed, 1137 01:18:50,189 --> 01:18:51,732 certain things would happen. 1138 01:18:55,903 --> 01:18:59,072 My image of them at the moment of death would be something 1139 01:18:59,156 --> 01:19:00,782 that happened in another year. 1140 01:19:02,659 --> 01:19:06,747 My sense of John and Quintana themselves, John and Quintana alive... 1141 01:19:07,372 --> 01:19:08,916 would become more remote... 1142 01:19:10,042 --> 01:19:10,959 softened... 1143 01:19:11,293 --> 01:19:15,172 transmuted into whatever best served my life without them. 1144 01:19:17,007 --> 01:19:19,134 In fact, this is already happening. 1145 01:19:21,178 --> 01:19:23,514 For once in your life, just let it go." 1146 01:19:42,032 --> 01:19:42,866 [Dunne] Hey. 1147 01:19:44,660 --> 01:19:46,870 Look how much soup you have. 1148 01:19:47,162 --> 01:19:49,373 -Who makes all this for you? -What soup? 1149 01:19:49,456 --> 01:19:50,916 All this, isn't that soup? 1150 01:19:53,335 --> 01:19:54,503 No, that's ice cream. 1151 01:19:56,046 --> 01:20:00,592 Griffin feels the need to report he's been getting calls from concerned friends. 1152 01:20:01,635 --> 01:20:05,389 The focus of their concern is my health, specifically my weight. 1153 01:20:07,266 --> 01:20:11,186 I point out that I have weighed the same amount since the early 1970's. 1154 01:20:12,437 --> 01:20:14,565 Griffin says that he recognizes this. 1155 01:20:16,191 --> 01:20:19,361 He is only reporting what those concerned friends 1156 01:20:19,444 --> 01:20:20,654 have mentioned to him. 1157 01:20:23,907 --> 01:20:28,370 I had been thinking that maybe it was time to do something totally new... 1158 01:20:28,912 --> 01:20:31,206 and it might be interesting to do a play. 1159 01:20:33,542 --> 01:20:37,629 So... I had some conversations with David Hare. 1160 01:20:39,381 --> 01:20:41,300 [Hare] When we came to make a play... 1161 01:20:41,884 --> 01:20:43,677 faced with two problems: 1162 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:45,804 One, she had never written a play. 1163 01:20:46,388 --> 01:20:49,391 But, secondly, we were faced with the very real problem 1164 01:20:49,474 --> 01:20:54,479 that Quintana, her daughter, had died since the book was written. 1165 01:20:54,813 --> 01:20:57,691 And whereas the book was about grief for her husband, 1166 01:20:57,941 --> 01:20:59,943 since then, her daughter had died. 1167 01:21:00,485 --> 01:21:03,697 And so, I was faced with the unhappy task 1168 01:21:03,780 --> 01:21:04,865 of saying to Joan... 1169 01:21:05,657 --> 01:21:08,035 that she would have to open up 1170 01:21:08,368 --> 01:21:12,456 about material which is not in the book, but which-- 1171 01:21:12,539 --> 01:21:14,041 Which would be in the play 1172 01:21:14,249 --> 01:21:17,586 and about which at the time, she had no intention of writing. 1173 01:21:18,295 --> 01:21:21,298 But one of the wonderful things about working with Joan 1174 01:21:21,381 --> 01:21:26,220 is that she doesn't ever let any discomfort she's feeling show. 1175 01:21:27,054 --> 01:21:29,389 And so, she never said to me... 1176 01:21:29,973 --> 01:21:31,725 "This is fantastically painful." 1177 01:21:32,392 --> 01:21:35,812 She just regarded it as a job to be done and it had to be done. 1178 01:21:35,896 --> 01:21:39,608 And I think it was done at immense personal cost and expense. 1179 01:21:41,652 --> 01:21:43,946 At that point, she was down to 75 pounds. 1180 01:21:44,530 --> 01:21:46,573 And I said, "If I do this play, 1181 01:21:46,657 --> 01:21:50,953 I'm going to put some flesh on her bones. That's what we're going to achieve." 1182 01:21:51,537 --> 01:21:54,873 We're going to plump her up, uh, by doing this play. 1183 01:21:54,957 --> 01:21:57,793 We're gonna make her happy and by making her happy-- 1184 01:21:57,876 --> 01:22:02,422 We're never gonna make her fat, but we're not gonna keep her at 75 pounds. 1185 01:22:02,506 --> 01:22:04,508 We're gonna get-- And-- And we did. 1186 01:22:05,092 --> 01:22:09,263 In other words, I fed her and I would-- 1187 01:22:09,346 --> 01:22:12,599 If I was working with her, we'd have sandwiches and I'd say, 1188 01:22:12,683 --> 01:22:15,644 "I'm not going to eat my sandwich until you eat yours. 1189 01:22:15,727 --> 01:22:17,729 You're going to eat that sandwich." [laughs] 1190 01:22:18,313 --> 01:22:20,357 We just fed her, and the stage manager 1191 01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:23,819 formalized it to a point where she put a table up 1192 01:22:23,902 --> 01:22:27,406 in the wings of the theater, and she put a red check tablecloth 1193 01:22:27,739 --> 01:22:32,786 and she put a sign saying "Cafe Didion" in the wings of the theater. 1194 01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:36,999 And so, between shows or before the show, she'd come in 1195 01:22:37,082 --> 01:22:40,127 and we'd give her croissants and jam or soup. 1196 01:22:41,253 --> 01:22:44,464 By the time the run was over, she was in pretty good shape. 1197 01:22:44,548 --> 01:22:46,633 We were very pleased and I said, 1198 01:22:46,717 --> 01:22:49,970 "I don't care whether this play is a service to art, 1199 01:22:50,053 --> 01:22:54,683 it is a service to humanity, we-- We've got Joan blooming again." 1200 01:22:54,766 --> 01:22:58,187 And-- And I think the play gave her a frame to her life 1201 01:22:58,270 --> 01:23:00,314 at a very, very, very difficult time. 1202 01:23:03,192 --> 01:23:05,402 [Joan] The larger thing I came to understand... 1203 01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:09,031 was the value of that communal experience. 1204 01:23:10,407 --> 01:23:14,995 The audience is in the collaboration, too, and we all are in it together 1205 01:23:15,078 --> 01:23:17,206 which is very like life itself, right? 1206 01:23:19,416 --> 01:23:20,834 [Redgrave] This happened... 1207 01:23:21,460 --> 01:23:25,797 on December 30th, 2003. 1208 01:23:27,508 --> 01:23:31,011 That may seem a while ago, it won't when it happens to you, 1209 01:23:31,094 --> 01:23:33,096 and it will happen to you. 1210 01:23:33,805 --> 01:23:36,558 The details will be different, but it will happen. 1211 01:23:36,642 --> 01:23:39,895 That's what I'm here to tell you. 1212 01:23:42,189 --> 01:23:45,484 It was lovely for me to see the pictures 1213 01:23:45,567 --> 01:23:47,819 of you and John getting ready. 1214 01:23:48,737 --> 01:23:51,323 Can you see all right, or shall I tilt it up? 1215 01:23:51,406 --> 01:23:54,159 I don't think you can see otherwise, can you? 1216 01:23:54,243 --> 01:23:55,410 I can see. 1217 01:23:55,911 --> 01:23:58,080 -Is that-- Is that me? -[Redgrave] Yes, it is. 1218 01:23:58,163 --> 01:24:00,332 Well, she has dark glasses on anyway... 1219 01:24:00,624 --> 01:24:03,544 There you look very glamorous. Not saying you don't-- 1220 01:24:03,710 --> 01:24:08,215 Haven't often, if not always, looked extremely glamorous, 1221 01:24:08,715 --> 01:24:10,884 but that one is particularly sort of... 1222 01:24:12,219 --> 01:24:13,887 "dark glasses" glamorous. 1223 01:24:14,805 --> 01:24:18,767 Oh, here she is. The lovely-- The lovely girls. 1224 01:24:20,435 --> 01:24:21,395 [Redgrave groans] 1225 01:24:23,313 --> 01:24:27,192 In March 2009, Tash died. 1226 01:24:29,945 --> 01:24:32,072 I'd got a different understanding 1227 01:24:33,699 --> 01:24:37,244 how things change, but not only change 1228 01:24:37,870 --> 01:24:40,330 in a way that you certainly hadn't expected... 1229 01:24:41,290 --> 01:24:42,666 but also change-- 1230 01:24:43,333 --> 01:24:47,754 Change our perceptions, that's what The Year of Magical Thinking was about. 1231 01:24:48,797 --> 01:24:49,756 [Joan] This one is John. 1232 01:24:50,174 --> 01:24:52,384 -[Redgrave] There's John, yeah. -Next to Tasha. 1233 01:24:56,847 --> 01:24:58,807 I'm so glad you brought these. 1234 01:24:58,891 --> 01:25:00,809 Yeah, thank you, I'm glad, too. 1235 01:25:04,021 --> 01:25:04,855 It... 1236 01:25:05,522 --> 01:25:10,569 changed my perceptions in a specific, amongst other, ways... 1237 01:25:12,988 --> 01:25:14,323 that I understood... 1238 01:25:16,325 --> 01:25:18,327 something I hadn't before. 1239 01:25:19,661 --> 01:25:20,579 Which was... 1240 01:25:21,914 --> 01:25:24,249 that you don't get all gloomy-doomy. 1241 01:25:24,333 --> 01:25:25,417 Yes. 1242 01:25:25,667 --> 01:25:26,502 Yes. 1243 01:25:41,892 --> 01:25:44,978 This book is called Blue Nights, at the time I began it, 1244 01:25:45,062 --> 01:25:48,315 I found my mind turning increasingly to illness. 1245 01:25:49,149 --> 01:25:51,818 To the end of promise, the dwindling of the days, 1246 01:25:51,902 --> 01:25:55,322 the inevitability of the fading, the dying of the brightness. 1247 01:25:56,698 --> 01:26:00,118 Blue Nights are the opposite of the dying of the brightness, 1248 01:26:00,202 --> 01:26:02,120 but they are also its warning. 1249 01:26:05,290 --> 01:26:06,917 [Dunne] Writing Blue Nights was 1250 01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:10,003 quite a different experience for you, creatively. 1251 01:26:10,462 --> 01:26:11,713 It was hard, actually. 1252 01:26:14,216 --> 01:26:15,092 Um... 1253 01:26:15,717 --> 01:26:19,137 In the middle of it I thought, "I don't have to finish this," 1254 01:26:19,596 --> 01:26:22,140 and I almost abandoned it then. 1255 01:26:24,101 --> 01:26:24,935 But... 1256 01:26:25,435 --> 01:26:26,270 I went on. 1257 01:26:27,729 --> 01:26:29,857 [Dunne] Is that because it was about Quintana? 1258 01:26:30,232 --> 01:26:31,859 [Joan] Because it was about Quintana. 1259 01:26:35,195 --> 01:26:37,030 When she wrote Blue Nights then-- 1260 01:26:44,621 --> 01:26:46,456 When she wrote Blue Nights then-- 1261 01:26:48,333 --> 01:26:50,294 When I-- When I read it, I... 1262 01:26:52,171 --> 01:26:53,964 sent her a message, you know. 1263 01:26:56,508 --> 01:26:58,927 And she just said, "I only wrote it for you." 1264 01:27:00,345 --> 01:27:04,016 She said, "I had no reason to write it except to write it for you." 1265 01:27:04,433 --> 01:27:07,519 And, uh, I was very, very upset by this. 1266 01:27:08,896 --> 01:27:12,941 Um, she said, "I knew you'd be the only person who'd understand this book." 1267 01:27:13,984 --> 01:27:15,986 I said, "I won't be the only person. 1268 01:27:16,069 --> 01:27:20,449 Lots of people will understand it." But I was incredibly moved that she-- 1269 01:27:21,450 --> 01:27:22,659 Blue Nights was her... 1270 01:27:23,744 --> 01:27:26,997 way of completing the process we had been through, you know? 1271 01:27:28,457 --> 01:27:31,543 I think she wanted to think about bringing up Quintana 1272 01:27:31,627 --> 01:27:33,128 and what had happened and-- 1273 01:27:33,795 --> 01:27:37,591 And, I-- You know, with Joan, I think she always writes to find out 1274 01:27:37,674 --> 01:27:40,552 what she thinks and what she feels, and so I think... 1275 01:27:41,094 --> 01:27:44,640 that's what Blue Nights was partly about. 1276 01:27:45,599 --> 01:27:46,433 And-- 1277 01:27:47,309 --> 01:27:49,436 And maybe it's kind of a release, too. 1278 01:27:49,895 --> 01:27:52,439 The idea that you get it down and then... 1279 01:27:53,774 --> 01:27:58,153 it's-- I don't think-- Not that she wants to forget it, 1280 01:27:58,237 --> 01:28:00,614 but it just clarifies it in some way. 1281 01:28:06,203 --> 01:28:08,121 [Joan] I couldn't, in any way... 1282 01:28:09,873 --> 01:28:11,708 confront the death of my daughter 1283 01:28:12,167 --> 01:28:13,085 for a long time. 1284 01:28:14,795 --> 01:28:18,882 She was much more troubled than I ever recognized 1285 01:28:18,966 --> 01:28:20,759 or admitted because she was-- 1286 01:28:21,718 --> 01:28:27,015 At the same time that she was troubled, she was infinitely amusing and charming. 1287 01:28:28,058 --> 01:28:30,936 And that's naturally what I tended to focus on. 1288 01:28:35,566 --> 01:28:40,571 Most of us go through life trying to focus on what works for us, 1289 01:28:40,779 --> 01:28:44,783 and her amusing side definitely worked for me. 1290 01:28:53,041 --> 01:28:57,087 When I was little, the Donner party was taught to children in California. 1291 01:28:59,047 --> 01:29:01,383 The interesting part of the story is the... 1292 01:29:02,176 --> 01:29:04,469 failure to plan for misfortune. 1293 01:29:05,137 --> 01:29:08,640 To plan to protect one another, to protect themselves. 1294 01:29:19,359 --> 01:29:20,402 She was adopted. 1295 01:29:21,820 --> 01:29:25,199 She had been given to me to take care of and I had failed to, 1296 01:29:25,282 --> 01:29:27,659 so there was a huge guilt. 1297 01:29:33,373 --> 01:29:36,710 One of the things that worries us about dying is we're afraid 1298 01:29:36,793 --> 01:29:39,630 we're leaving people behind and they won't be able 1299 01:29:39,713 --> 01:29:42,549 to take care of themselves, we have to take care of them. 1300 01:29:45,302 --> 01:29:46,136 But, in fact... 1301 01:29:48,222 --> 01:29:50,432 you see, I'm not leaving anybody behind. 1302 01:29:55,562 --> 01:29:57,731 I know that I can no longer reach her. 1303 01:29:59,107 --> 01:30:03,070 I know that should I try to reach her, she will fade from my touch. 1304 01:30:04,655 --> 01:30:05,531 Vanish. 1305 01:30:06,740 --> 01:30:08,075 Pass into nothingness. 1306 01:30:09,660 --> 01:30:11,537 Fade as the blue nights fade. 1307 01:30:11,828 --> 01:30:13,580 Go as the brightness goes. 1308 01:30:14,957 --> 01:30:16,458 Go back into the blue. 1309 01:30:18,836 --> 01:30:21,338 I, myself, placed her ashes in the wall. 1310 01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:25,050 I know what it is I am now experiencing. 1311 01:30:25,133 --> 01:30:27,970 I know what the frailty is, I know what the fear is. 1312 01:30:28,470 --> 01:30:30,305 The fear is not for what is lost. 1313 01:30:30,889 --> 01:30:33,308 What is lost is already in the wall. 1314 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:39,147 The fear is for what is still to be lost. You may see nothing still to be lost... 1315 01:30:40,274 --> 01:30:43,610 yet there is no day in her life in which I do not see her. 1316 01:31:01,378 --> 01:31:04,131 [Obama] Hello, everybody, and welcome to the White House. 1317 01:31:04,214 --> 01:31:07,384 Thank you for joining us, uh, to celebrate Joan Didion... 1318 01:31:08,135 --> 01:31:11,847 who rightly has earned distinction as... 1319 01:31:12,514 --> 01:31:14,892 one of the most celebrated American writers of her generation. 1320 01:31:15,767 --> 01:31:17,728 I'm surprised she hadn't already gotten this award. 1321 01:31:27,696 --> 01:31:30,282 [man] For her mastery of style in writing... 1322 01:31:31,325 --> 01:31:33,327 exploring the culture around us 1323 01:31:33,619 --> 01:31:35,537 and exposing the depths of sorrow, 1324 01:31:36,079 --> 01:31:40,792 Ms. Didion has produced works of startling honesty and fierce intellect. 1325 01:31:41,210 --> 01:31:43,420 Rendered personal stories universal, 1326 01:31:43,712 --> 01:31:46,798 and illuminated the seemingly peripheral details 1327 01:31:46,882 --> 01:31:48,550 that are central to our lives. 1328 01:31:49,176 --> 01:31:51,011 [crowd applauding] 1329 01:32:16,036 --> 01:32:18,747 [Joan] "See enough and write it down," I tell myself. 1330 01:32:20,958 --> 01:32:24,336 And then some morning, when the world seems drained of wonder, 1331 01:32:24,419 --> 01:32:26,880 some day when I'm going through the motions 1332 01:32:26,964 --> 01:32:29,800 of doing what I am supposed to do, which is write... 1333 01:32:35,180 --> 01:32:38,684 On that bankrupt morning, I will simply open my notebook 1334 01:32:38,767 --> 01:32:42,771 and there it will all be, a forgotten account with accumulated interest. 1335 01:32:44,398 --> 01:32:46,817 Paid passage back to the world out there. 1336 01:32:58,412 --> 01:32:59,663 It all comes back. 1337 01:33:07,004 --> 01:33:08,797 Remember what it is to be me. 1338 01:33:10,465 --> 01:33:12,009 That is always the point. 106852

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