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My son said
that he was a soldier
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and that he had killed people.
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She was saying, plane,
tall building, New York City.
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00:00:24,403 --> 00:00:27,372
She saw that plane
coming through the walls.
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00:00:27,406 --> 00:00:29,408
Why won't you
tell me, I love you, Mommy?
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00:00:29,443 --> 00:00:31,962
And he said, it's because
you weren't my mommy.
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He said, you're my mommy now.
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That was our awakening.
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She started talking to
me about a fire, people frantic,
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trying to leave.
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But then she didn't want to
remember what happened next.
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Ken said that
he had smelled fire.
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He got extremely emotional.
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00:00:46,115 --> 00:00:49,118
The look of
terror on his face.
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All I remember was the crash.
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The rest is fuzzy.
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He just lost it.
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This was more
than just a story.
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She was remembering a past life.
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00:00:58,230 --> 00:01:01,302
There's no way
that this doesn't match.
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00:01:01,337 --> 00:01:02,959
It's not that
I don't believe it.
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I have a hard time
processing it.
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00:01:04,616 --> 00:01:06,756
I couldn't understand
where this was coming from.
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My little boy was
suffering, and I felt helpless.
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I don't believe anything
unless it happens to me,
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00:01:12,002 --> 00:01:13,832
but I know something
happened to my son.
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Plumerville is a sprawled kind
of town with fewer than 800
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people.
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00:01:34,956 --> 00:01:35,923
If you were driving
through here,
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you would blink and miss it.
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Plumerville is dead
center in the Bible Belt.
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There is not a person here that
you will not meet that is not
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extremely religious.
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My husband's name is Craig.
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We have four girls and one boy.
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He is our youngest,
and his name is Ken.
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I was really excited
to be able to have a boy.
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I always wanted one.
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00:01:58,325 --> 00:02:01,293
Ken was born seven
and 1/2 weeks early.
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00:02:01,328 --> 00:02:07,368
He screamed bloody murder the
first six months of his life.
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00:02:10,751 --> 00:02:11,717
There was never breaks.
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00:02:11,752 --> 00:02:15,169
There was never quiet time.
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I've tried, for so many years,
to describe those screams.
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00:02:18,241 --> 00:02:19,000
Eardrum-piercing.
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00:02:21,002 --> 00:02:23,177
Window breaking.
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00:02:23,212 --> 00:02:26,076
If you had a hawk and you
were to cut its foot off,
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the scream that that would
make, that would be the sound.
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00:02:32,428 --> 00:02:35,085
Everybody, including
myself and the kids,
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slept whenever he slept.
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00:02:38,365 --> 00:02:40,815
Any time he laid
down, everybody else
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00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:44,025
laid down too because we knew
that if Ken was sleeping,
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we had better sleep.
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00:02:45,786 --> 00:02:48,168
Because as soon as he gets up,
nobody else is going to sleep.
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00:02:48,202 --> 00:02:49,721
He was definitely
a different baby.
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We've tried everything, night
lights, TV, sounds, radios.
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00:02:58,281 --> 00:03:02,320
We've tried everything,
and he can't stay asleep.
57
00:03:02,354 --> 00:03:06,531
Ken was actually diagnosed
with night terrors.
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00:03:06,565 --> 00:03:08,429
Those are an extreme
version of nightmares.
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00:03:08,464 --> 00:03:09,844
He'd wake up screaming--
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00:03:11,881 --> 00:03:16,368
crying, his arms
flailing, kicking his feet.
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00:03:16,403 --> 00:03:20,200
And he started, very young,
getting up and running
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in the house.
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It was extremely hard on me.
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00:03:27,241 --> 00:03:28,760
I felt like I was
just failing him.
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00:03:30,486 --> 00:03:33,868
A lot of times, whenever I'd
find Ken walking the house
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00:03:33,903 --> 00:03:36,802
or doing whatever weird
thing he was doing,
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00:03:36,837 --> 00:03:39,564
there were many nights
that I just sat with Ken
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00:03:39,598 --> 00:03:42,739
and cried because
none of it made sense.
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00:03:42,774 --> 00:03:44,569
I would ask Ken,
what's scaring you?
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And he would just tell
me that it was too scary,
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and he'd look away.
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To me, his mom, I
picked up from him
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00:03:52,611 --> 00:03:54,924
that that was his way of
saying he didn't know how
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00:03:54,958 --> 00:03:59,100
to put into words what was
happening to him every night.
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00:03:59,135 --> 00:04:00,895
I do have nightmares.
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00:04:00,930 --> 00:04:04,796
There's eyes looking out of the
windows, burning in the fire.
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00:04:08,144 --> 00:04:09,283
As a mom, it's sad.
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00:04:09,318 --> 00:04:10,664
We want to fix
everything, you know?
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00:04:10,698 --> 00:04:12,631
We're supposed to
kiss the boo-boos
80
00:04:12,666 --> 00:04:14,012
and scare away the bad guys.
81
00:04:14,046 --> 00:04:16,117
And that's our job.
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00:04:16,152 --> 00:04:18,292
We're supposed to make
everything perfect
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00:04:18,327 --> 00:04:19,328
for these perfect little kids.
84
00:04:19,362 --> 00:04:22,572
And we don't always
have that option.
85
00:04:22,607 --> 00:04:25,023
There are some things
that we can't fix.
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00:04:27,715 --> 00:04:30,408
My first reaction
was that something
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00:04:30,442 --> 00:04:34,653
was more wrong than what
we had originally thought.
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00:04:34,688 --> 00:04:36,448
I would talk to my
husband, Craig, about it,
89
00:04:36,483 --> 00:04:40,866
and he would just
say, this is crazy.
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00:04:40,901 --> 00:04:45,285
The only thing that seemed
to help, as Ken got older,
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00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:48,218
was to just sleep
in bed with us.
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00:04:48,253 --> 00:04:51,670
I don't foresee me getting a
good, restful night's sleep
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00:04:51,705 --> 00:04:52,430
anytime soon.
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00:04:55,087 --> 00:04:58,436
I built Ken a room so he can
have his own room by himself.
95
00:04:58,470 --> 00:05:00,610
He still sleeps with us.
96
00:05:00,645 --> 00:05:03,199
Put him in his room
at night, and whenever
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00:05:03,233 --> 00:05:07,341
I get up at 4 o'clock to go
to work, he's in bed with us.
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00:05:07,376 --> 00:05:08,825
My little
boy was suffering,
99
00:05:08,860 --> 00:05:10,517
and I didn't know what to do.
100
00:05:14,072 --> 00:05:16,074
We had this nighttime ritual to
where I would tuck all the kids
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in.
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00:05:17,282 --> 00:05:18,697
They'd all say, I
love you, Mommy,
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00:05:18,732 --> 00:05:21,873
and Ken would never
say, I love you, Mommy.
104
00:05:21,907 --> 00:05:24,807
And I finally was like, why
won't you tell me, I love you,
105
00:05:24,841 --> 00:05:25,842
Mommy?
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00:05:25,877 --> 00:05:27,810
Why do you just say, I love you?
107
00:05:27,844 --> 00:05:31,227
And he said, it's because
you weren't my mommy.
108
00:05:31,261 --> 00:05:32,401
I didn't know what was going on.
109
00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:45,206
My name is Karen,
and I am Claire's mom.
110
00:05:45,241 --> 00:05:47,761
I work as the marketing
communications coordinator
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at a privately owned
company here in Pittsburgh.
112
00:05:49,935 --> 00:05:52,179
If you're into sports,
you're in the right place.
113
00:05:55,147 --> 00:05:56,770
I think Pittsburgh is a
good place to have a family.
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00:05:56,804 --> 00:05:59,220
There's a lot of
things for kids to do.
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00:05:59,255 --> 00:06:00,256
I love the Science Center.
116
00:06:00,290 --> 00:06:01,361
It's wonderful.
117
00:06:01,395 --> 00:06:04,571
I'm so glad that that's here.
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00:06:04,605 --> 00:06:06,573
When I was around
six months pregnant,
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00:06:06,607 --> 00:06:09,299
my sister called
right around 9:00
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00:06:09,334 --> 00:06:10,784
and wanted me to turn the TV on.
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00:06:10,818 --> 00:06:11,854
It was September 11.
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00:06:13,580 --> 00:06:15,927
We turned on some TVs at the
office, and they kept saying,
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00:06:15,961 --> 00:06:18,067
a plane went down in
Pittsburgh, a plane went down
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00:06:18,101 --> 00:06:19,102
in Pittsburgh.
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00:06:19,137 --> 00:06:20,414
And I was like, oh
my gosh, Pittsburgh.
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00:06:20,449 --> 00:06:23,521
My sister lives in Pittsburgh.
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00:06:23,555 --> 00:06:26,593
I really was shocked at what
was happening in the world.
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00:06:26,627 --> 00:06:28,457
She was actually
fearful for my life,
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00:06:28,491 --> 00:06:30,528
thinking that a plane had
hit here in Pittsburgh.
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00:06:30,562 --> 00:06:33,082
United 93 crashed about
an hour from here.
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00:06:34,808 --> 00:06:36,810
I couldn't believe
what was happening,
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00:06:36,844 --> 00:06:41,953
and sat there, and watched,
and was like, oh my god,
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00:06:41,987 --> 00:06:43,403
what am I bringing my baby into?
134
00:06:44,852 --> 00:06:50,651
And a lot of things changed
after that, and it is--
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00:06:50,686 --> 00:06:51,963
it's not right.
136
00:06:58,210 --> 00:07:01,455
Three months later, after
9/11, I went into the hospital
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00:07:01,490 --> 00:07:05,148
because I was two days
late from my due date.
138
00:07:05,183 --> 00:07:07,737
I just remember Karen
had a lot of complications.
139
00:07:11,189 --> 00:07:13,985
By that afternoon, I
was actually in labor,
140
00:07:14,019 --> 00:07:17,609
and she was getting
ready to come out.
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00:07:17,644 --> 00:07:21,095
We went from having a labor
and delivery room with just
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00:07:21,130 --> 00:07:25,652
the doctor and a nurse to a
full-filled room with lots
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00:07:25,686 --> 00:07:27,585
of people from
the neonatal care,
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00:07:27,619 --> 00:07:30,380
and the nurse standing
next to me saying,
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00:07:30,415 --> 00:07:32,590
just breathe for the baby,
just breathe for the baby.
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They rushed me next door
to the emergency room,
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00:07:38,975 --> 00:07:42,600
and we did emergency c-section.
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00:07:42,634 --> 00:07:44,947
She wasn't breathing
when she came out,
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00:07:44,981 --> 00:07:46,983
and we both nearly died.
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00:07:48,502 --> 00:07:50,504
I just remember
being scared for her
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00:07:50,539 --> 00:07:52,230
and Claire at the same time.
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00:07:52,264 --> 00:07:55,716
I actually remember hearing
them say that she was blue.
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I was frantic.
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00:07:58,547 --> 00:08:01,722
When I saw her in NICU, she
had tubes everywhere in her,
155
00:08:01,757 --> 00:08:03,621
and they had to
intubate her right away.
156
00:08:03,655 --> 00:08:05,485
She had swallowed and
breathed in a lot of blood.
157
00:08:07,003 --> 00:08:09,247
They had to check her for
brainwaves and everything.
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00:08:09,281 --> 00:08:11,042
It was horrifying.
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00:08:14,873 --> 00:08:17,186
I actually felt like it was my
fault that she went through all
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00:08:17,220 --> 00:08:17,911
that.
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00:08:21,846 --> 00:08:24,193
After Claire's birth, I
was on a lot of medication
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00:08:24,227 --> 00:08:25,539
and in a lot of pain.
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00:08:25,574 --> 00:08:28,749
I remember being
wheeled up next to her.
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00:08:28,784 --> 00:08:31,165
I still see that cute
little hat they put on,
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00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,272
that little striped hat they
put on in NICU for them.
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00:08:34,306 --> 00:08:38,552
I can remember the
smell and everything.
167
00:08:38,587 --> 00:08:40,243
So I was able to kiss her.
168
00:08:40,278 --> 00:08:43,246
She had the best smile
on her face, you know?
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00:08:43,281 --> 00:08:44,869
And she's just laying there.
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00:08:44,903 --> 00:08:47,906
It was wonderful.
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00:08:47,941 --> 00:08:50,288
She had been tested,
not long after birth,
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for milestones to see if
you're grasping things.
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She was all ahead or beyond
her age group for every test
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00:08:57,398 --> 00:08:59,435
that they ever did to her,
so she was completely fine.
175
00:09:02,818 --> 00:09:05,199
Claire was always
advance with everything.
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00:09:05,234 --> 00:09:09,203
She picked up on everything that
you would talk to her about.
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00:09:09,238 --> 00:09:10,929
She walked early.
178
00:09:10,964 --> 00:09:15,555
She started being creative
at the age of nine months.
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00:09:15,589 --> 00:09:18,558
That was when I first gave
her something to draw with.
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00:09:18,592 --> 00:09:20,456
I honestly don't
know of a day that
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00:09:20,490 --> 00:09:23,424
has gone by where I haven't
seen her drawing something.
182
00:09:27,636 --> 00:09:29,707
The first time I noticed
something was out of character
183
00:09:29,741 --> 00:09:32,054
with Claire was when
she was around two.
184
00:09:32,088 --> 00:09:34,953
Claire has always been
my baby, and I called her
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00:09:34,988 --> 00:09:36,748
that for a really long time.
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00:09:36,783 --> 00:09:39,268
I also call her Claire too.
187
00:09:39,302 --> 00:09:41,719
But as she started
getting more vocal
188
00:09:41,753 --> 00:09:45,136
and having
conversations with us,
189
00:09:45,170 --> 00:09:48,829
she decided that she only
wanted to be called baby.
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00:09:48,864 --> 00:09:51,314
She did not want to
be called Claire.
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00:09:51,349 --> 00:09:52,281
She said it wasn't her name.
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00:09:54,110 --> 00:09:57,527
She was pretty adamant about it.
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00:09:57,562 --> 00:09:58,977
I just thought
she was being a kid.
194
00:09:59,012 --> 00:10:00,185
That's just what kids do.
195
00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:03,188
They go through little phases.
196
00:10:03,223 --> 00:10:04,983
And then Claire said
something else to me
197
00:10:05,018 --> 00:10:08,159
that left me bewildered.
198
00:10:14,683 --> 00:10:17,927
I had a really difficult
childbirth with Claire.
199
00:10:17,962 --> 00:10:21,482
We both almost died.
200
00:10:28,697 --> 00:10:31,872
I had many conversations
with her about,
201
00:10:31,907 --> 00:10:33,667
why didn't she want
to be called Claire?
202
00:10:33,702 --> 00:10:37,533
Why did she want
to be called baby?
203
00:10:37,567 --> 00:10:40,881
I didn't know what
was going on with her.
204
00:10:40,916 --> 00:10:45,161
She always would say
she wants to stay baby.
205
00:10:45,196 --> 00:10:48,164
And when she turned three,
she was very excited.
206
00:10:48,199 --> 00:10:49,821
That was her favorite number.
207
00:10:49,856 --> 00:10:51,305
She did not want to turn four.
208
00:10:52,755 --> 00:10:54,412
She didn't want
to get any older.
209
00:10:54,446 --> 00:10:57,518
I saw Claire cry because she
didn't want to be called Claire
210
00:10:57,553 --> 00:10:59,693
and because she didn't
want to grow up.
211
00:10:59,728 --> 00:11:03,179
There was times where
she was sobbing.
212
00:11:03,214 --> 00:11:08,322
She said she did not
want to grow up again.
213
00:11:08,357 --> 00:11:11,222
How do you deal with a child
who doesn't want to grow up?
214
00:11:11,256 --> 00:11:12,223
What do you say to them?
215
00:11:12,257 --> 00:11:14,708
How do you help
them through that?
216
00:11:14,743 --> 00:11:18,022
It is very frustrating to
me, and it was disheartening.
217
00:11:24,580 --> 00:11:26,375
For a few years,
everything was normal,
218
00:11:26,409 --> 00:11:29,240
and then something
else happened.
219
00:11:29,274 --> 00:11:32,553
When Claire was around eight, we
decided to take a trip to Texas
220
00:11:32,588 --> 00:11:34,279
to visit my sister.
221
00:11:34,314 --> 00:11:37,627
Claire was very excited
about the trip at first.
222
00:11:37,662 --> 00:11:41,079
And then after I
bought the tickets,
223
00:11:41,114 --> 00:11:43,703
she decided that she didn't
want to get on that plane,
224
00:11:43,737 --> 00:11:47,258
and she did not want to go.
225
00:11:47,292 --> 00:11:49,778
She started telling me
that she was afraid to fly.
226
00:11:49,812 --> 00:11:51,883
She was afraid to
get on the plane.
227
00:11:51,918 --> 00:11:55,059
Claire had never flown
in a plane before.
228
00:11:55,093 --> 00:11:57,751
I tried to talk
to her about what
229
00:11:57,786 --> 00:11:59,097
it feels like to be on a plane.
230
00:11:59,132 --> 00:12:02,135
It feels just like riding
a bus, but it's very cool.
231
00:12:02,169 --> 00:12:03,584
You can see the clouds.
232
00:12:03,619 --> 00:12:06,311
She didn't care.
233
00:12:06,346 --> 00:12:09,038
I always considered
Claire my risk-taker.
234
00:12:09,073 --> 00:12:11,765
She would go to the top
of the highest slide
235
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,596
and be fine with it.
236
00:12:15,631 --> 00:12:19,635
About two weeks before the trip,
when I was tucking her in bed,
237
00:12:19,669 --> 00:12:22,603
I decided to try again to
have a discussion with Claire
238
00:12:22,638 --> 00:12:25,572
about being comfortable
with flying.
239
00:12:25,606 --> 00:12:28,092
I asked her, what do you
think the worst thing that
240
00:12:28,126 --> 00:12:31,820
would happen if we went
on an airplane ride?
241
00:12:31,854 --> 00:12:35,237
When she finally talked to
me about her true reason
242
00:12:35,271 --> 00:12:38,447
for being afraid to
fly, I was overwhelmed.
243
00:12:46,627 --> 00:12:50,355
We were all so
excited when Ken was born.
244
00:12:50,390 --> 00:12:52,979
He was the only boy in
a house full of girls,
245
00:12:53,013 --> 00:12:54,912
but that wasn't the only
thing different about him.
246
00:13:00,538 --> 00:13:01,988
I felt like I was failing him.
247
00:13:04,887 --> 00:13:07,821
When Ken grew older,
it was night time,
248
00:13:07,856 --> 00:13:10,030
he took on a completely
different personality.
249
00:13:11,825 --> 00:13:16,830
He started getting
up and running.
250
00:13:16,865 --> 00:13:18,487
And instead of I love
you, Mommy, Ken said,
251
00:13:18,521 --> 00:13:20,627
you weren't my mommy.
252
00:13:20,661 --> 00:13:23,043
He said, you're my mommy now.
253
00:13:23,078 --> 00:13:27,979
We're dealing with a
whole nother issue.
254
00:13:28,014 --> 00:13:30,982
But that was only the beginning.
255
00:13:31,017 --> 00:13:33,743
Every chance I get, I try to
encourage Ken to do things that
256
00:13:33,778 --> 00:13:35,124
make him happy.
257
00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:36,954
And outdoors is his thing.
258
00:13:36,988 --> 00:13:39,508
If he can be
outside, he's happy.
259
00:13:39,542 --> 00:13:41,855
He'll stay outside
all the time if you let him.
260
00:13:41,890 --> 00:13:43,581
First minute when he
gets up in the morning,
261
00:13:43,615 --> 00:13:44,582
he's outside the door.
262
00:13:44,616 --> 00:13:46,515
Ken is an adventurer.
263
00:13:46,549 --> 00:13:50,691
He has this greater appreciation
for the natural world.
264
00:13:50,726 --> 00:13:52,038
He feels like that's
where he belongs.
265
00:13:55,731 --> 00:13:59,873
When Ken was 5, we planned
on going on a family trip
266
00:13:59,908 --> 00:14:01,495
to the Natural Bridge.
267
00:14:01,530 --> 00:14:04,844
And we got up there,
and it was closed.
268
00:14:04,878 --> 00:14:06,880
We thought, well, you know,
we can't just cut it short
269
00:14:06,915 --> 00:14:07,847
because it's closed.
270
00:14:07,881 --> 00:14:11,436
Let's drive and
see what we find.
271
00:14:11,471 --> 00:14:15,406
And we found this particular
spot, completely new to us,
272
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,097
and Ken had never
been up there before.
273
00:14:22,033 --> 00:14:23,897
When we got out and
started to walk,
274
00:14:23,932 --> 00:14:26,382
I noticed that Ken's total
demeanor changed almost
275
00:14:26,417 --> 00:14:27,452
instantaneously.
276
00:14:30,939 --> 00:14:32,630
His facial expressions changed.
277
00:14:32,664 --> 00:14:37,911
He was very somber, which then
turned into extreme sadness.
278
00:14:37,946 --> 00:14:39,533
He wasn't out in
front of the family.
279
00:14:39,568 --> 00:14:44,366
He was quite a ways behind us,
which is very unusual for Ken.
280
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,577
And I actually had to go
get him and hold his hand
281
00:14:48,611 --> 00:14:52,477
to walk this path.
282
00:14:52,512 --> 00:14:55,239
He got extremely emotional.
283
00:14:55,273 --> 00:14:56,102
It was time to leave.
284
00:14:56,136 --> 00:14:57,137
We had to go.
285
00:14:57,172 --> 00:14:58,311
He didn't want to be there.
286
00:14:58,345 --> 00:14:59,829
He wasn't happy outside, which--
287
00:14:59,864 --> 00:15:01,935
another not usual for Ken.
288
00:15:01,970 --> 00:15:05,801
Ken had a look of
terror on his face.
289
00:15:05,835 --> 00:15:09,115
I didn't know what to
think, what was going on.
290
00:15:09,149 --> 00:15:10,910
I mean, usually, Ken
loves being outside.
291
00:15:10,944 --> 00:15:12,118
He loves going wood walking.
292
00:15:12,152 --> 00:15:14,810
He's really happy when
we do stuff like that.
293
00:15:14,844 --> 00:15:17,295
Ken said that he
had smelled fire.
294
00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:21,230
I kept telling him that
there was a burn ban, which,
295
00:15:21,265 --> 00:15:24,337
in Arkansas, means no
burning of any kind
296
00:15:24,371 --> 00:15:27,064
is allowed because
the brush is so thick,
297
00:15:27,098 --> 00:15:30,136
and the chances of
wildfires is extreme.
298
00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:32,932
We got back to the truck.
299
00:15:32,966 --> 00:15:38,454
He just sort of lost it and
was uncontrollably crying.
300
00:15:38,489 --> 00:15:41,457
I didn't-- didn't
know what to think.
301
00:15:41,492 --> 00:15:43,528
Just seeing how upset Ken was--
302
00:15:43,563 --> 00:15:44,840
I've never seen him like that.
303
00:15:44,874 --> 00:15:47,187
We were constantly,
you know, what's wrong?
304
00:15:47,222 --> 00:15:47,981
Why are you crying?
305
00:15:48,016 --> 00:15:49,293
Why are you-- just tell us.
306
00:15:49,327 --> 00:15:50,811
Why are you crying?
307
00:15:50,846 --> 00:15:52,503
He started to tell us that there
was an Indian man there named
308
00:15:52,537 --> 00:15:53,159
Four Seas.
309
00:15:56,645 --> 00:15:59,441
Ken's words to me
were that he was
310
00:15:59,475 --> 00:16:04,618
ordered to burn any evidence
of the Indians being there.
311
00:16:04,653 --> 00:16:07,449
I was horrified that he even
knew what burning people was
312
00:16:07,483 --> 00:16:09,451
like.
313
00:16:09,485 --> 00:16:14,490
And then Ken said he
had to kill them all.
314
00:16:14,525 --> 00:16:16,734
And they all burned.
315
00:16:16,768 --> 00:16:20,013
And he's very, very mad.
316
00:16:20,048 --> 00:16:22,567
Why was my 5-year-old son
talking about killing people?
317
00:16:33,233 --> 00:16:35,339
My 6-year-old son
Ken has had night
318
00:16:35,373 --> 00:16:37,203
terrors since he was a baby.
319
00:16:40,344 --> 00:16:44,382
The screaming was so loud that
it affected the entire family.
320
00:16:44,417 --> 00:16:46,074
And then he said that I
wasn't his only mother.
321
00:16:55,428 --> 00:16:58,569
My little boy was suffering,
and I felt helpless.
322
00:16:58,603 --> 00:17:01,330
We went on a walk with
the entire family,
323
00:17:01,365 --> 00:17:04,230
and my son began to talk about
how he had killed people.
324
00:17:07,267 --> 00:17:10,960
He said that he was a
soldier and that there
325
00:17:10,995 --> 00:17:13,756
was an Indian man there
and that he was a chief--
326
00:17:13,791 --> 00:17:15,896
his name was Four Seas--
327
00:17:15,931 --> 00:17:20,729
and that he was sad
but very mad at Ken.
328
00:17:20,763 --> 00:17:25,389
He said that there was
Indians that live there.
329
00:17:25,423 --> 00:17:28,185
They were forced in
this tiny, little area.
330
00:17:28,219 --> 00:17:33,397
He was told that he
had to kill them all.
331
00:17:33,431 --> 00:17:39,955
And his words were that I had
shot the Indian chief Four
332
00:17:39,989 --> 00:17:41,612
Seas in the arm.
333
00:17:41,646 --> 00:17:44,925
And they told me to keep firing,
and I shot him in the head.
334
00:17:55,626 --> 00:18:02,219
He was told that he had to
burn down all evidence of them.
335
00:18:02,253 --> 00:18:07,914
But why would my son know about
people being shot in the head?
336
00:18:07,948 --> 00:18:10,330
Kenny was acting
like that he was--
337
00:18:10,365 --> 00:18:12,298
he was there when it happened.
338
00:18:12,332 --> 00:18:18,511
He kept on repeating about the
people being burnt and killed.
339
00:18:18,545 --> 00:18:19,788
And he couldn't get--
340
00:18:19,822 --> 00:18:21,307
he couldn't get through
the story without crying.
341
00:18:24,482 --> 00:18:26,622
I started to realize
that something was wrong.
342
00:18:26,657 --> 00:18:31,248
Ken wasn't as
emotional about anything else
343
00:18:31,282 --> 00:18:34,596
ever in his life that he
was about this one instance.
344
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:38,807
His fear
and his sadness--
345
00:18:38,841 --> 00:18:41,154
it was real.
346
00:18:41,189 --> 00:18:43,812
At this
point, I started
347
00:18:43,846 --> 00:18:46,987
to think that maybe this was all
connected to what Ken was going
348
00:18:47,022 --> 00:18:48,644
through at night.
349
00:18:50,681 --> 00:18:53,684
Dannette took him to
the side and talked to him
350
00:18:53,718 --> 00:18:55,651
and helped him work
through it, and he
351
00:18:55,686 --> 00:18:57,722
got to feeling a little bit
better about what happened.
352
00:18:57,757 --> 00:19:01,485
Whenever we had gotten
home, I put him to bed,
353
00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:05,454
and he passed out like
he had been doing,
354
00:19:05,489 --> 00:19:08,837
you know, crazy hard
labor all day long.
355
00:19:08,871 --> 00:19:13,497
That's the only night I
ever remember him sleeping
356
00:19:13,531 --> 00:19:15,982
through the night.
357
00:19:16,016 --> 00:19:18,536
I feel like he was
relieved in a sense.
358
00:19:18,571 --> 00:19:21,332
He had kept it
bottled up for so long
359
00:19:21,367 --> 00:19:24,680
and hadn't said anything for
whatever his reasons were
360
00:19:24,715 --> 00:19:27,925
that he finally just feels like
he had just dumped all this off
361
00:19:27,959 --> 00:19:31,894
and was able to rest.
362
00:19:31,929 --> 00:19:35,933
I immediately went to research
because I want to know what's
363
00:19:35,967 --> 00:19:37,728
going on with him.
364
00:19:37,762 --> 00:19:42,181
I jumped on the internet,
and I typed in Four Seas,
365
00:19:42,215 --> 00:19:44,010
and I typed in Four
Seas, Arkansas.
366
00:19:44,044 --> 00:19:46,081
I typed in Four Seas trail.
367
00:19:46,115 --> 00:19:47,600
I typed in anything
and everything
368
00:19:47,634 --> 00:19:49,878
I can come across that would
lead me to any answers.
369
00:19:52,743 --> 00:19:56,747
And I actually came
across the Trail of Tears.
370
00:19:56,781 --> 00:20:00,958
Plumerville is really close
to the Trail of Tears.
371
00:20:00,992 --> 00:20:03,236
In the early 1800s,
the Native Americans
372
00:20:03,271 --> 00:20:07,344
were forced out of their
lands and had to walk west.
373
00:20:07,378 --> 00:20:09,138
They call it the Trail
of Tears because they
374
00:20:09,173 --> 00:20:13,246
lost many, many loved ones.
375
00:20:13,281 --> 00:20:16,870
I had learned part of the
Native American tradition
376
00:20:16,905 --> 00:20:21,703
is that you have past lives.
377
00:20:21,737 --> 00:20:24,464
Reincarnation is part of
the life and death cycle.
378
00:20:24,499 --> 00:20:26,777
When I told my husband that it
could have been a past life,
379
00:20:26,811 --> 00:20:29,814
he really didn't
know what to say.
380
00:20:29,849 --> 00:20:32,817
I always believed that once
you was dead, you was dead.
381
00:20:32,852 --> 00:20:36,304
I still don't really all the way
buy into that past life stuff.
382
00:20:36,338 --> 00:20:38,409
Over a couple
of weeks, Ken just
383
00:20:38,444 --> 00:20:43,172
kept dropping these little
hints that started to pour in.
384
00:20:43,207 --> 00:20:50,973
Four Seas was a good man.
385
00:20:51,008 --> 00:20:55,633
He told me his name was Kit,
and I said, your name is Ken.
386
00:20:55,668 --> 00:20:57,463
And he said, no, it's Kit.
387
00:21:01,052 --> 00:21:03,296
The closest name I have
ever heard in my life
388
00:21:03,331 --> 00:21:05,160
is like Kyle or something like--
389
00:21:05,194 --> 00:21:08,439
I've never heard Kit.
390
00:21:08,474 --> 00:21:10,476
I kept looking, and I
kept doing research.
391
00:21:10,510 --> 00:21:13,099
And then one day, there it was.
392
00:21:13,133 --> 00:21:16,067
My son's memories were
real, and I was shocked.
393
00:21:25,145 --> 00:21:29,011
When Claire was around 8, we
decided to take a trip to Texas
394
00:21:29,046 --> 00:21:31,013
to visit my sister.
395
00:21:31,048 --> 00:21:34,465
After I bought the
tickets, she decided
396
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:36,225
that she didn't want
to get on that plane,
397
00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:37,641
and she did not want to go.
398
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,374
It was a really
emotional time for me.
399
00:21:49,653 --> 00:21:51,827
Her fear of flying
was so intense,
400
00:21:51,862 --> 00:21:54,243
she was afraid to fly with me
to my sister's house in Houston.
401
00:21:57,177 --> 00:22:00,353
She started talking
to me about the plane
402
00:22:00,388 --> 00:22:03,149
crashed through the
side of the building.
403
00:22:03,183 --> 00:22:06,635
I remember her telling me
that Claire felt pretty adamant
404
00:22:06,670 --> 00:22:10,881
that she was in a building
when a plane crashed.
405
00:22:10,915 --> 00:22:15,886
She continued telling me that
she saw a portion of that plane
406
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,854
coming through the wall.
407
00:22:18,889 --> 00:22:21,374
Could have been something
she had seen because,
408
00:22:21,409 --> 00:22:25,689
every year, they replay
something from September 11.
409
00:22:25,723 --> 00:22:29,382
I remembered back to
when I was pregnant with Claire
410
00:22:29,417 --> 00:22:32,489
and the whole 9/11 incident.
411
00:22:32,523 --> 00:22:35,388
And I thought to
myself, ooh, I wonder
412
00:22:35,423 --> 00:22:38,978
if she's remembering being a
part of the whole 9/11 tragedy.
413
00:22:44,259 --> 00:22:46,710
For about two weeks,
she continued telling me
414
00:22:46,744 --> 00:22:50,403
that she worked in an
office in New York City.
415
00:22:50,438 --> 00:22:52,578
And I started writing
everything she told me down.
416
00:22:52,612 --> 00:22:56,927
She was talking with emotion
and like it was happening.
417
00:22:56,961 --> 00:22:59,239
It was very real to her.
418
00:22:59,274 --> 00:23:04,383
Claire described her hair
as being red and wavy.
419
00:23:04,417 --> 00:23:08,041
She even remembered that she
would often put it up in a bun.
420
00:23:08,076 --> 00:23:10,561
The way she described the
outfit that she was wearing,
421
00:23:10,596 --> 00:23:13,806
it was sort of like a
1950s type of style.
422
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,396
And I really restricted
what they watched on TV,
423
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:22,470
and so where would she have seen
1950s clothes to even describe
424
00:23:22,504 --> 00:23:25,127
them?
425
00:23:25,162 --> 00:23:28,130
She started talking to me
about a fire within the office,
426
00:23:28,165 --> 00:23:30,132
people frantic.
427
00:23:30,167 --> 00:23:33,826
But then she didn't
remember what happened next.
428
00:23:33,860 --> 00:23:38,244
And it's almost as if she
didn't want to remember.
429
00:23:38,278 --> 00:23:41,834
I had her start talking to
me about the building itself,
430
00:23:41,868 --> 00:23:45,769
and I fully expected her
to describe two buildings.
431
00:23:45,803 --> 00:23:48,668
I asked her, well, which
building were you in.
432
00:23:48,703 --> 00:23:50,221
She told me it was the
Empire State Building.
433
00:23:53,846 --> 00:23:56,780
I had never heard of a plane
crashing into a building in New
434
00:23:56,814 --> 00:24:00,473
York City except for 9/11.
435
00:24:00,508 --> 00:24:02,820
I took my notes and
walked downstairs
436
00:24:02,855 --> 00:24:04,926
to see what I could find
out on the computer.
437
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,756
But I just wanted to have
verification or proof
438
00:24:07,791 --> 00:24:11,657
that something like
that actually occurred.
439
00:24:11,691 --> 00:24:14,522
I was shocked to find that there
actually was an airplane that
440
00:24:14,556 --> 00:24:16,662
hit into the Empire
State Building.
441
00:24:18,664 --> 00:24:20,493
How would an 8-year-old
be telling me this?
442
00:24:29,744 --> 00:24:32,194
There was something
that bothered my son Ken
443
00:24:32,229 --> 00:24:33,989
from the time that he was born.
444
00:24:34,024 --> 00:24:36,716
He couldn't sleep without
having horrible nightmares.
445
00:24:36,751 --> 00:24:38,235
And something
seemed to haunt him.
446
00:24:47,382 --> 00:24:51,006
I heard him say that
he was ordered to burn
447
00:24:51,041 --> 00:24:53,664
any evidence of them all.
448
00:24:53,699 --> 00:24:57,012
Whenever we had gotten
home, I put him to bed.
449
00:24:57,047 --> 00:25:01,154
That's the only night I
ever remember him sleeping
450
00:25:01,189 --> 00:25:03,087
through the night.
451
00:25:03,122 --> 00:25:05,331
But then, all of a sudden,
his nightmares were back.
452
00:25:05,365 --> 00:25:08,541
As Kenny's daddy,
I wanted to help him.
453
00:25:08,576 --> 00:25:10,543
I wanted to make him feel
safe, and I didn't know how to.
454
00:25:13,719 --> 00:25:16,515
When you live in
Arkansas, you often
455
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:19,448
hear about the Trail of Tears.
456
00:25:19,483 --> 00:25:21,830
I started to think that that
was the connection to Ken's
457
00:25:21,865 --> 00:25:23,901
memories.
458
00:25:23,936 --> 00:25:26,386
Knowing that the Trail of
Tears runs through Arkansas,
459
00:25:26,421 --> 00:25:28,285
it went through my mind
that we could have been
460
00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:30,839
on an Indian burial ground.
461
00:25:30,874 --> 00:25:32,565
And when Kenny said
he was a soldier,
462
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,567
there were some Civil War
battles around here in Arkansas
463
00:25:34,602 --> 00:25:36,086
too.
464
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:37,708
So I thought maybe there could
be some connection with that.
465
00:25:37,743 --> 00:25:41,263
I typed in Four Seas
and Native American,
466
00:25:41,298 --> 00:25:42,920
and I got a hit.
467
00:25:42,955 --> 00:25:46,579
I learned that four seas is
a major symbol in the Navajo
468
00:25:46,614 --> 00:25:49,237
creation story,
and my belief was
469
00:25:49,271 --> 00:25:52,136
that four seas could represent
the Navajo people in Ken's
470
00:25:52,171 --> 00:25:53,793
memories.
471
00:25:53,828 --> 00:25:55,692
The Navajo had their
own Trail of Tears,
472
00:25:55,726 --> 00:25:57,901
and they called
that the Long Walk.
473
00:25:57,935 --> 00:26:01,214
The Long Walk actually
took place in New Mexico,
474
00:26:01,249 --> 00:26:03,113
not in Arkansas.
475
00:26:03,147 --> 00:26:05,978
It occurred in 1864,
a couple of decades
476
00:26:06,012 --> 00:26:07,980
after the Trail of Tears.
477
00:26:08,014 --> 00:26:10,085
The US government had
forced the Navajo people off
478
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,121
of their land.
479
00:26:11,155 --> 00:26:13,054
And then it jumped
off the page at me--
480
00:26:13,088 --> 00:26:17,265
the story of a soldier named
Kit Carson, the exact name
481
00:26:17,299 --> 00:26:18,507
my son had told me.
482
00:26:21,372 --> 00:26:24,962
I was literally like yelling,
oh my gosh, oh my gosh,
483
00:26:24,997 --> 00:26:25,722
oh my gosh.
484
00:26:25,756 --> 00:26:29,277
He said that name.
485
00:26:29,311 --> 00:26:33,315
Kit Carson was a person that
I had never heard of before.
486
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:36,284
And I know my son has
never heard of him before
487
00:26:36,318 --> 00:26:38,562
because it's not something they
had learned about in school.
488
00:26:42,497 --> 00:26:45,604
Kit Carson was a mountain
man and a wilderness expert
489
00:26:45,638 --> 00:26:47,502
in the 1800s.
490
00:26:47,536 --> 00:26:49,435
Kit Carson loved the outdoors.
491
00:26:49,469 --> 00:26:52,300
He was an adventurer,
a scout, and a trapper.
492
00:26:52,334 --> 00:26:54,474
Kenneth loved being
outdoors, and Kit Carson
493
00:26:54,509 --> 00:26:56,166
was a frontiersman.
494
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,376
He was also a soldier who fought
in the Mexican-American War
495
00:26:59,410 --> 00:27:00,791
and in the Civil War.
496
00:27:00,826 --> 00:27:03,104
The military forced
Kit Carson to do things
497
00:27:03,138 --> 00:27:04,519
that were inexcusably brutal.
498
00:27:07,902 --> 00:27:10,042
Kit Carson was one
of many in charge
499
00:27:10,076 --> 00:27:13,390
of driving the Navajo out of
their land into inhospitable
500
00:27:13,424 --> 00:27:15,357
lands.
501
00:27:15,392 --> 00:27:21,363
Some of the Navajo people were
shot, and some were burned.
502
00:27:21,398 --> 00:27:25,195
Kit Carson was also
extremely conflicted
503
00:27:25,229 --> 00:27:28,129
about what he had done and what
he was forced to do versus what
504
00:27:28,163 --> 00:27:31,304
he felt was right because
he knew what he was doing
505
00:27:31,339 --> 00:27:32,685
was wrong and because
he had married
506
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,617
a Native American woman.
507
00:27:37,241 --> 00:27:39,899
I immediately saw the
connection because with Ken
508
00:27:39,934 --> 00:27:44,110
smelling smoke and talking
about them burning.
509
00:27:47,873 --> 00:27:52,084
This little boy had
the memory of it.
510
00:27:52,118 --> 00:27:54,534
Everything that Ken was saying
was matching up with the story
511
00:27:54,569 --> 00:27:55,190
of the Long Walk.
512
00:27:58,124 --> 00:28:04,717
I looked up and saw
human burning in fires.
513
00:28:04,752 --> 00:28:11,862
And there was like 10 people
burning in the fire, or 13,
514
00:28:11,897 --> 00:28:14,451
or 100.
515
00:28:14,485 --> 00:28:18,593
It was a pretty huge pile.
516
00:28:18,627 --> 00:28:22,528
The pieces of the puzzle
were all just coming together.
517
00:28:22,562 --> 00:28:25,186
There's no way that
this doesn't match.
518
00:28:25,220 --> 00:28:28,223
I didn't know what to
think when Dannette told me
519
00:28:28,258 --> 00:28:34,057
she found that what Ken was
talking about was a true story.
520
00:28:34,091 --> 00:28:35,403
I'm a skeptic.
521
00:28:35,437 --> 00:28:39,579
I don't think I believe anything
unless it happens to me.
522
00:28:39,614 --> 00:28:43,756
But at the same time, I know
something happened to my son.
523
00:28:43,791 --> 00:28:46,241
I asked Kenneth if the name
Kit Carson meant anything
524
00:28:46,276 --> 00:28:47,277
to him.
525
00:28:47,311 --> 00:28:48,416
And he said, yeah, that's me.
526
00:28:54,284 --> 00:28:57,321
I felt a little bit of relief
because we knew at least what
527
00:28:57,356 --> 00:29:00,635
the story was, so we
knew where to work.
528
00:29:00,669 --> 00:29:02,913
Ken had mentioned that
he was given orders,
529
00:29:02,948 --> 00:29:06,503
but it didn't change the fact
that he felt guilty for it.
530
00:29:06,537 --> 00:29:07,953
Kenneth felt hurt.
531
00:29:07,987 --> 00:29:09,989
He said he was a soldier,
but at the same time,
532
00:29:10,024 --> 00:29:11,888
it was almost like he
was experiencing it
533
00:29:11,922 --> 00:29:13,061
from the Indian.
534
00:29:13,096 --> 00:29:15,995
You can just see it
all over Ken's face
535
00:29:16,030 --> 00:29:18,964
that he was sorry
for what he had done.
536
00:29:18,998 --> 00:29:22,174
All people
died except for me.
537
00:29:25,349 --> 00:29:28,180
It was sad.
538
00:29:28,214 --> 00:29:32,080
I really wanted him to
understand that he was Ken now
539
00:29:32,115 --> 00:29:36,326
and that he needed to let go
of whatever he was feeling
540
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,847
in relations to this event.
541
00:29:39,881 --> 00:29:41,918
My fear is that
Ken will continue
542
00:29:41,952 --> 00:29:47,026
to carry those thoughts
and feelings with him.
543
00:29:47,061 --> 00:29:49,649
It's like crushing
his little soul.
544
00:30:02,076 --> 00:30:04,492
Everything that Ken was saying
was matching up with the story
545
00:30:04,526 --> 00:30:05,217
of the Long Walk.
546
00:30:16,055 --> 00:30:20,232
He said fire, and then
there was the burn.
547
00:30:20,266 --> 00:30:23,718
And he said four seas, and
that was what connected
548
00:30:23,752 --> 00:30:26,652
to the Navajo tradition.
549
00:30:26,686 --> 00:30:31,208
Ken looked and radiated
remorse for things
550
00:30:31,243 --> 00:30:33,038
that he had done
in his past life,
551
00:30:33,072 --> 00:30:38,422
and Kit Carson was also
extremely remorseful.
552
00:30:38,457 --> 00:30:40,942
The pieces of the puzzle were
all just coming together.
553
00:30:44,394 --> 00:30:48,018
Ken is still going
through something.
554
00:30:48,053 --> 00:30:50,193
He's still having
nightmares at night.
555
00:30:50,227 --> 00:30:53,610
I really want him to
understand that he was Ken now
556
00:30:53,644 --> 00:30:56,785
and that he needed to let go.
557
00:30:56,820 --> 00:31:01,929
Did some research, and found
that there is some ceremonies
558
00:31:01,963 --> 00:31:04,000
that we can offer
to do at the site
559
00:31:04,034 --> 00:31:07,624
where he had his emotional
breakdown, asking
560
00:31:07,658 --> 00:31:11,939
for forgiveness and offering
our feelings of sorrow
561
00:31:11,973 --> 00:31:13,112
for what they had gone through.
562
00:31:25,573 --> 00:31:28,748
This is the place where Ken
initially shared his story
563
00:31:28,783 --> 00:31:32,304
about Kit Carson with us.
564
00:31:32,338 --> 00:31:36,101
We want to do a ceremony for Ken
to ask for forgiveness for what
565
00:31:36,135 --> 00:31:37,619
he had done and to say
goodbye to Kit Carson.
566
00:31:48,147 --> 00:31:52,082
I had a mentor who taught
me that burning sage helps
567
00:31:52,117 --> 00:31:54,982
clear negative energy,
and it releases it.
568
00:31:55,016 --> 00:31:56,431
And you offer a prayer.
569
00:31:56,466 --> 00:31:57,812
That's good.
570
00:31:57,846 --> 00:31:59,814
More than enough.
571
00:31:59,848 --> 00:32:01,126
Now we're going to
have dad light it.
572
00:32:07,615 --> 00:32:09,720
Try to get that other
little piece right here.
573
00:32:12,654 --> 00:32:14,449
OK.
574
00:32:14,484 --> 00:32:15,278
You ready?
575
00:32:15,312 --> 00:32:16,417
Yes.
576
00:32:16,451 --> 00:32:17,970
We're going to say
goodbye to Kit Carson.
577
00:32:18,005 --> 00:32:19,523
OK, I will.
578
00:32:19,558 --> 00:32:22,837
We're sorry for all the
things that Kit Carson has done.
579
00:32:22,871 --> 00:32:25,598
We're sorry for all
the things that Kit--
580
00:32:25,633 --> 00:32:27,462
that Kit Carson has done.
581
00:32:27,497 --> 00:32:30,603
But we need to say goodbye
to Kit Carson and Four Seas.
582
00:32:30,638 --> 00:32:33,020
But we need to say good--
583
00:32:33,054 --> 00:32:35,125
goodbye to Kit
Carson and Four Seas.
584
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,370
So that I can go on and do
wonderful things in my life.
585
00:32:38,404 --> 00:32:42,891
So I can go on and do
wonderful things in my life.
586
00:32:54,075 --> 00:32:55,387
All right.
I'm done.
587
00:32:55,421 --> 00:32:56,043
Give me a hug.
588
00:32:59,184 --> 00:33:03,188
I definitely feel
optimistic that Ken will
589
00:33:03,222 --> 00:33:05,466
be able to set this
part of his life
590
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:09,021
aside and move forward and
do some good in the world
591
00:33:09,056 --> 00:33:09,780
this time around.
592
00:33:18,444 --> 00:33:20,377
I see a fish.
593
00:33:20,412 --> 00:33:21,206
Oh, yeah.
594
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:21,896
There's fish.
595
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:28,006
I think that Ken's going to find
it really refreshing to move
596
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:28,627
past this.
597
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,743
I recognized that
my daughter Claire had
598
00:33:41,778 --> 00:33:46,714
a fear of flying when we had the
opportunity to fly to Houston.
599
00:33:46,748 --> 00:33:49,475
She told me that a plane had hit
into the Empire State Building.
600
00:34:01,108 --> 00:34:04,042
I had never heard of a plane
crashing into a building in New
601
00:34:04,076 --> 00:34:06,113
York City except for 9/11.
602
00:34:06,147 --> 00:34:08,149
I couldn't understand how
would she know about that.
603
00:34:11,118 --> 00:34:12,912
When I sat down
and did research,
604
00:34:12,947 --> 00:34:16,813
I was shocked to find out
that on July 28, 1945,
605
00:34:16,847 --> 00:34:18,263
there actually was a plane.
606
00:34:18,297 --> 00:34:21,093
The disaster
on 34th Street.
607
00:34:21,128 --> 00:34:23,199
An Army bomber lost
in the overcast
608
00:34:23,233 --> 00:34:25,960
had crashed into the towering
Empire State Building, parts
609
00:34:25,994 --> 00:34:28,894
of it blasting completely
through the 79th floor
610
00:34:28,928 --> 00:34:30,413
and landing across the street.
611
00:34:30,447 --> 00:34:32,311
When a count was
made, three crewmen
612
00:34:32,346 --> 00:34:35,418
were dead as well as 10 persons
working in the skyscraper.
613
00:34:35,452 --> 00:34:38,386
25 persons were injured in a
disaster that remains the most
614
00:34:38,421 --> 00:34:40,595
singular in New
York City's history.
615
00:34:40,630 --> 00:34:44,082
I was amazed to find
that it really did happen.
616
00:34:44,116 --> 00:34:46,256
I realized this was
more than just a story.
617
00:34:46,291 --> 00:34:49,466
She was remembering a past life.
618
00:34:49,501 --> 00:34:51,675
The year even matched the
description of the clothes
619
00:34:51,710 --> 00:34:53,815
she had told me about.
620
00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:57,405
It's not that I
don't believe it.
621
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,996
I have a hard time
processing it.
622
00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:05,482
I showed Claire what I
found online the next day.
623
00:35:05,517 --> 00:35:09,141
It helped to validate what
she remembered was real.
624
00:35:09,176 --> 00:35:11,143
My name is Claire.
625
00:35:11,178 --> 00:35:12,455
I live in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania,
626
00:35:12,489 --> 00:35:14,526
and I'm 12 years old.
627
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,151
I remember a name Rose and
that I had two children.
628
00:35:19,186 --> 00:35:21,291
I was working
inside of a cubicle
629
00:35:21,326 --> 00:35:24,156
in the Empire State Building
when the plane's wing crashed
630
00:35:24,191 --> 00:35:26,296
into my office.
631
00:35:26,331 --> 00:35:27,953
All I remember was the crash.
632
00:35:27,987 --> 00:35:28,402
The rest is fuzzy.
633
00:35:31,715 --> 00:35:35,443
We don't know exactly
who Claire was in a past life,
634
00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:38,170
so it was very hard for her.
635
00:35:38,205 --> 00:35:41,691
I was unsure and scared.
636
00:35:41,725 --> 00:35:44,038
Through my research
of those who have remembered
637
00:35:44,072 --> 00:35:47,628
a past life, it seems as
though when a person visits
638
00:35:47,662 --> 00:35:51,183
the actual place where
they had that past life,
639
00:35:51,218 --> 00:35:55,670
more memories can come through,
and more healing can happen.
640
00:35:55,705 --> 00:35:58,294
My mother's going to
take me to the Empire State
641
00:35:58,328 --> 00:36:02,988
Building to help me recover
from these memories.
642
00:36:03,022 --> 00:36:06,854
I'm interested to know if I have
any flashbacks from that time.
643
00:36:06,888 --> 00:36:09,822
Maybe understanding my past
self would help me understand me
644
00:36:09,857 --> 00:36:12,170
in this life.
645
00:36:12,204 --> 00:36:14,827
I am slightly
hesitant that Claire may have
646
00:36:14,862 --> 00:36:18,003
some emotional
reaction to her visit
647
00:36:18,037 --> 00:36:19,487
to the Empire State Building.
648
00:36:19,522 --> 00:36:20,971
I'm not sure what
will come out of that.
649
00:36:27,978 --> 00:36:30,084
I asked Claire if she would
be interested in going
650
00:36:30,118 --> 00:36:32,362
to the Empire State
Building, and she said, yeah,
651
00:36:32,397 --> 00:36:34,364
she'd like to go.
652
00:36:34,399 --> 00:36:36,090
I am slightly hesitant
that Claire may
653
00:36:36,124 --> 00:36:39,024
have some emotional reaction.
654
00:36:39,058 --> 00:36:41,751
Claire has a fear
of being there.
655
00:36:41,785 --> 00:36:44,719
I'm not 100% sold that
there are past lives
656
00:36:44,754 --> 00:36:47,860
and that we come back, but I
support Claire in this journey
657
00:36:47,895 --> 00:36:49,621
that she's going to go on.
658
00:36:49,655 --> 00:36:51,795
I have some
unanswered questions, like,
659
00:36:51,830 --> 00:36:53,349
what happened that day?
660
00:36:53,383 --> 00:36:55,109
Why did the crash happen?
661
00:36:55,143 --> 00:36:59,217
Hopefully, it'll
bring some closure.
662
00:36:59,251 --> 00:37:01,080
Claire and I are
here in New York City.
663
00:37:01,115 --> 00:37:03,393
We're on 34th Street, which
is just down around the corner
664
00:37:03,428 --> 00:37:04,463
from the Empire State Building.
665
00:37:07,466 --> 00:37:09,572
We're going to walk into
the Empire State Building,
666
00:37:09,606 --> 00:37:12,920
and we're going to see if we
can try to see the 79th floor
667
00:37:12,954 --> 00:37:15,750
or peek in or just kind
of get near to there, see
668
00:37:15,785 --> 00:37:18,270
how far we can get.
669
00:37:18,305 --> 00:37:19,961
Say hi, we're at the
Empire State Building.
670
00:37:19,996 --> 00:37:20,997
Hi.
671
00:37:21,031 --> 00:37:22,792
Looks pretty tall.
672
00:37:22,826 --> 00:37:25,277
I feel like Claire might
remember some more information
673
00:37:25,312 --> 00:37:28,280
that she was not clear
about, like her name.
674
00:37:28,315 --> 00:37:29,902
She wasn't sure if it was Rose.
675
00:37:29,937 --> 00:37:31,145
She mentioned Ann.
676
00:37:31,179 --> 00:37:33,492
She didn't really remember
any parts of her death.
677
00:37:33,527 --> 00:37:35,908
So we're hoping something
like that might come through.
678
00:37:35,943 --> 00:37:37,496
I'm feeling pretty good.
679
00:37:37,531 --> 00:37:39,429
I'm excited to go in the
Empire State Building.
680
00:37:39,464 --> 00:37:41,776
It's pretty cool.
681
00:37:41,811 --> 00:37:44,676
I hope to find a list
of names or memorials
682
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:48,818
to people who used to work
there, maybe to find who I was.
683
00:37:48,852 --> 00:37:51,855
I'm hoping we can
find some more information
684
00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:54,789
on this particular
plane crash in 1945.
685
00:37:54,824 --> 00:37:56,481
I remember that
from somewhere.
686
00:37:56,515 --> 00:37:59,173
You remember
that from somewhere?
687
00:37:59,207 --> 00:38:02,003
And to help her be
at rest with that.
688
00:38:02,038 --> 00:38:03,108
Look how beautiful.
689
00:38:03,142 --> 00:38:04,420
I love all this.
690
00:38:04,454 --> 00:38:06,214
As we were walking
around the building,
691
00:38:06,249 --> 00:38:07,837
as we were walking
through the building--
692
00:38:07,871 --> 00:38:10,771
It looks like the
1920s, doesn't it?
693
00:38:10,805 --> 00:38:13,463
I couldn't help but wonder
what that experience might have
694
00:38:13,498 --> 00:38:15,948
been like for her to
go to work every day
695
00:38:15,983 --> 00:38:18,434
and to walk in there on
that Saturday morning only
696
00:38:18,468 --> 00:38:22,161
to see the plane crash
through the side of the wall.
697
00:38:24,232 --> 00:38:25,406
How horrifying that
must have been.
698
00:38:32,171 --> 00:38:33,345
Wherever you want
to go, sweetie.
699
00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:34,001
I'll follow you.
700
00:38:37,660 --> 00:38:42,250
See if there's a timeline,
honey, somewhere.
701
00:38:42,285 --> 00:38:45,909
There's no
evidence of the crash.
702
00:38:45,944 --> 00:38:49,361
We didn't find anything
that would memorialize
703
00:38:49,396 --> 00:38:52,985
the deaths of those people
involved in the 1945 crash.
704
00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:54,055
What do you think?
705
00:38:54,090 --> 00:38:55,747
You ready to look outside?
706
00:38:55,781 --> 00:38:58,059
Being in the
Empire State Building
707
00:38:58,094 --> 00:39:02,478
made me feel that I may have
died there in the crash.
708
00:39:02,512 --> 00:39:05,343
If it was too small
of an event, then
709
00:39:05,377 --> 00:39:07,206
I guess they wouldn't
put it in there.
710
00:39:07,241 --> 00:39:10,727
But I was kind of surprised they
didn't have anything about it.
711
00:39:10,762 --> 00:39:13,937
They don't have a
history of the crash.
712
00:39:13,972 --> 00:39:15,525
No, they don't.
713
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:16,906
None.
714
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:17,665
Like none.
715
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:18,425
Sucks, right?
716
00:39:18,459 --> 00:39:19,218
Yeah.
717
00:39:19,253 --> 00:39:20,081
Wonder why.
718
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,570
It seems like it's
not only forgotten
719
00:39:25,604 --> 00:39:27,226
but almost sort of erased.
720
00:39:27,261 --> 00:39:29,297
It still happened.
721
00:39:29,332 --> 00:39:31,541
You can't erase the past.
722
00:39:31,576 --> 00:39:33,716
There needs
to be something.
723
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:36,512
A lot of people don't know
that it happened, but I do.
724
00:39:36,546 --> 00:39:38,928
And it's really special.
725
00:39:38,962 --> 00:39:41,240
Even though we didn't
find anything out today,
726
00:39:41,275 --> 00:39:44,036
it's highly possible that still
more information will come
727
00:39:44,071 --> 00:39:46,418
to her because of having the
experience that we did today.
728
00:39:46,453 --> 00:39:47,937
Hopefully, we can do
some more research
729
00:39:47,971 --> 00:39:50,905
to see if some names
that she has remembered,
730
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:53,391
whether it's Rose or Ann,
come through with the research
731
00:39:53,425 --> 00:39:54,461
that we can find.
732
00:40:01,813 --> 00:40:05,403
The producers gave us a
list of names to find out
733
00:40:05,437 --> 00:40:07,439
if anything resonates with you.
734
00:40:07,474 --> 00:40:08,923
You want to look
through with me?
735
00:40:08,958 --> 00:40:10,477
Sure.
736
00:40:10,511 --> 00:40:13,549
Mary died
during the crash.
737
00:40:13,583 --> 00:40:15,551
And we have Anna.
738
00:40:15,585 --> 00:40:17,311
And then here's
another one, Patricia.
739
00:40:17,345 --> 00:40:18,726
Oh.
740
00:40:18,761 --> 00:40:20,625
This is the woman that
fell down the elevator.
741
00:40:20,659 --> 00:40:22,799
And then here's Margaret.
742
00:40:22,834 --> 00:40:26,907
The one who sounds most
familiar is Anna Gerlach.
743
00:40:26,941 --> 00:40:28,805
Yeah?
744
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,497
Why do you feel that way?
745
00:40:30,531 --> 00:40:34,777
Well, it says
that she was Irish.
746
00:40:34,811 --> 00:40:35,502
No.
747
00:40:35,536 --> 00:40:36,986
That makes sense then too.
748
00:40:37,020 --> 00:40:39,126
She had red hair.
749
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,128
And her mother's
name was Rose too.
750
00:40:41,162 --> 00:40:42,647
And you remember
Rose as a name.
751
00:40:42,681 --> 00:40:45,339
The name Rose, the name Ann.
752
00:40:45,373 --> 00:40:47,514
It says she died
instantly on impact.
753
00:40:47,548 --> 00:40:50,171
I found that I had actually
died in the Empire State
754
00:40:50,206 --> 00:40:51,621
Building in the crash.
755
00:40:51,656 --> 00:40:53,761
You feel like
that might happen to you?
756
00:40:53,796 --> 00:40:56,384
Because I have no
memory of anything else.
757
00:40:56,419 --> 00:41:00,009
That's most likely why
her memory of that lifetime
758
00:41:00,043 --> 00:41:01,010
just stops.
759
00:41:01,044 --> 00:41:03,530
Two kids.
760
00:41:03,564 --> 00:41:06,015
Everything that Claire
told me really connected
761
00:41:06,049 --> 00:41:07,395
with Anna.
762
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:09,536
The information that
she remembered was true.
763
00:41:09,570 --> 00:41:11,158
I honestly
didn't know if I
764
00:41:11,192 --> 00:41:14,230
was going to find anyone
in there that would relate
765
00:41:14,264 --> 00:41:15,334
to my memories.
766
00:41:15,369 --> 00:41:16,888
But I did, and it was perfect.
767
00:41:16,922 --> 00:41:18,545
It's validation
that you're not
768
00:41:18,579 --> 00:41:20,547
just like imagining this stuff.
769
00:41:20,581 --> 00:41:22,376
Not only did it
give her healing,
770
00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:24,343
there's proof that it was real.
771
00:41:24,378 --> 00:41:26,380
I'm really
tired from the day,
772
00:41:26,414 --> 00:41:28,209
but it's nice to put
the pieces of the puzzle
773
00:41:28,244 --> 00:41:30,453
together and find out
who I was in the end.
774
00:41:35,838 --> 00:41:39,048
This has been quite
the experience for Claire.
775
00:41:39,082 --> 00:41:42,189
I mean, she was really
afraid to get on that plane.
776
00:41:42,223 --> 00:41:44,743
And that simple act of
remembering this past life
777
00:41:44,778 --> 00:41:46,227
has really healed her.
778
00:41:46,262 --> 00:41:49,748
It was good that my mom
brought me to New York City.
779
00:41:49,783 --> 00:41:51,750
I think that remembering
all this stuff
780
00:41:51,785 --> 00:41:55,651
made me come over
my fear of flying.
781
00:41:55,685 --> 00:41:57,342
I realize I'm not
in that lifetime,
782
00:41:57,376 --> 00:41:59,517
and I can't be hurt anymore.
783
00:41:59,551 --> 00:42:02,071
I don't have to
be afraid anymore.
61688
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