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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,911 --> 00:00:12,743 - I have to admit to a selfish motive 2 00:00:12,779 --> 00:00:15,146 in inviting Professor Newman here. 3 00:00:15,182 --> 00:00:16,775 As a doctor, I'm intrigued to know 4 00:00:16,817 --> 00:00:19,514 whether I'll still have a job in 10 years’ time, 5 00:00:19,553 --> 00:00:22,045 or whether there's a chance of the recent developments 6 00:00:22,089 --> 00:00:25,321 in biotechnology, specifically gene therapy, 7 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:28,124 will mean that whole areas of medicine and pathology, 8 00:00:28,161 --> 00:00:30,630 as we know them, will cease to exist. 9 00:00:32,533 --> 00:00:34,764 Professor Newman will be giving two lectures 10 00:00:34,801 --> 00:00:37,965 to this university, explaining the scientific research 11 00:00:38,005 --> 00:00:41,100 behind the many recent developments in this field. 12 00:00:41,141 --> 00:00:43,007 And we welcome him here today. 13 00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:44,272 Professor Newman. 14 00:00:54,288 --> 00:00:56,450 - Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 15 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:58,015 - I gotta go, Gary. 16 00:01:00,494 --> 00:01:01,494 Gary? 17 00:01:03,931 --> 00:01:05,627 Forget it, I'll walk. 18 00:01:14,975 --> 00:01:21,439 - Now, we all carry five to 10 fatal diseases in our genes. 19 00:01:23,984 --> 00:01:27,352 Though we ourselves may not be affected by illness, 20 00:01:27,854 --> 00:01:31,484 should our partners carry a corresponding genetic error, 21 00:01:31,525 --> 00:01:33,153 our children may be. 22 00:01:49,076 --> 00:01:52,012 But currently, we're attempting to replace 23 00:01:52,312 --> 00:01:55,612 this flawed gene in the lung cells of sufferers, 24 00:01:55,649 --> 00:01:58,778 by placing a normal gene in the virus, 25 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:02,146 which is then inhaled by the patient. 26 00:02:08,695 --> 00:02:12,427 I don't think any reasonable, compassionate person 27 00:02:12,466 --> 00:02:14,958 would disagree with this research. 28 00:02:15,002 --> 00:02:17,403 This is somatic gene therapy. 29 00:02:18,338 --> 00:02:22,332 Trying to help a person who already has the illness. 30 00:02:22,843 --> 00:02:26,974 But what if we could prevent the illness in the first place? 31 00:02:27,314 --> 00:02:30,113 Isn't prevention better than cure? 32 00:02:35,022 --> 00:02:36,456 Think of it. 33 00:02:36,490 --> 00:02:40,552 We could eradicate hereditary disease completely. 34 00:02:41,695 --> 00:02:44,995 But this would entail germ line therapy. 35 00:02:45,932 --> 00:02:48,766 Germ line gene transfer would affect 36 00:02:48,802 --> 00:02:51,670 the reproductive cells, that is, sperm and eggs. 37 00:02:51,705 --> 00:02:54,869 But of course, the regulations do not permit 38 00:02:54,908 --> 00:02:57,377 germ line therapy, at present. 39 00:03:09,756 --> 00:03:12,021 This is where, if I were a brave man, 40 00:03:12,059 --> 00:03:15,996 I'd invite our chanting, banner-waving friends in, 41 00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:20,125 and ask them a simple question: do they still want 42 00:03:20,167 --> 00:03:24,002 to see children suffer diseases like this? 43 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:27,496 Or would they prefer us to eradicate them? 44 00:03:28,475 --> 00:03:30,137 Thank you. 45 00:04:29,102 --> 00:04:30,900 Jake? 46 00:04:33,206 --> 00:04:34,206 Henry? 47 00:05:36,469 --> 00:05:38,631 - They kept themselves very much to themselves. 48 00:05:38,672 --> 00:05:39,982 - Right, they didn't even say good morning, 49 00:05:40,006 --> 00:05:40,974 or ask you how you were. 50 00:05:41,007 --> 00:05:42,703 - They were very private sort of people. 51 00:05:42,742 --> 00:05:45,211 You'd see them in the local shop now and then, but sometimes 52 00:05:45,245 --> 00:05:48,943 you wouldn't see them for weeks on end, really. 53 00:05:55,822 --> 00:05:57,347 - Thank you 54 00:06:08,869 --> 00:06:11,168 - Hello, I'm DCI Ranjeet Navar. 55 00:06:11,204 --> 00:06:12,172 - How do you do? 56 00:06:12,205 --> 00:06:13,673 - They're in here. 57 00:06:22,649 --> 00:06:26,211 - They're brothers, lived here over 30 years. 58 00:06:26,253 --> 00:06:29,417 Any idea how long they've been dead? 59 00:06:29,456 --> 00:06:31,015 About four days. 60 00:06:31,291 --> 00:06:33,157 - You can tell that just from looking? 61 00:06:33,193 --> 00:06:35,560 - No, from the state of the milk. 62 00:06:35,595 --> 00:06:37,120 Cause of death? 63 00:06:37,163 --> 00:06:39,132 - No visible marks or injuries. 64 00:06:39,165 --> 00:06:40,258 Could be anything. 65 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:42,496 - I think we can rule out brutal attack. 66 00:06:42,535 --> 00:06:44,561 - No signs of a forced entry. 67 00:06:44,604 --> 00:06:46,163 - Do we know if anything's missing? 68 00:06:46,206 --> 00:06:48,641 - A bit early to tell yet, sir. 69 00:06:48,675 --> 00:06:49,802 - Who found them? 70 00:06:50,277 --> 00:06:51,245 The cleaner. 71 00:06:51,278 --> 00:06:53,770 Nicola James, comes once a week. 72 00:06:53,813 --> 00:06:55,145 - Jake and Henry Davies, 73 00:06:55,181 --> 00:06:56,877 they have a tiny shop on the high street. 74 00:06:56,917 --> 00:06:59,580 - Get down there and see what's what. 75 00:06:59,853 --> 00:07:00,718 - Where's the cleaner. 76 00:07:00,754 --> 00:07:02,086 Neighbors'. 77 00:07:02,756 --> 00:07:04,019 - Do you mind if I have a word? 78 00:07:04,057 --> 00:07:05,685 - Be my guest. 79 00:07:05,725 --> 00:07:08,559 - Don't touch anything til I've finished in here. 80 00:07:12,098 --> 00:07:13,464 You're new to AMIP, aren't you? 81 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:15,059 - Been with them for about a month. 82 00:07:15,402 --> 00:07:16,927 - You enjoying it? 83 00:07:16,970 --> 00:07:18,165 - I don't know yet. 84 00:07:18,204 --> 00:07:19,382 People always mistrust a new face 85 00:07:19,406 --> 00:07:21,875 until you've proved yourself. 86 00:07:21,908 --> 00:07:23,433 You're the chair of forensic medicine 87 00:07:23,476 --> 00:07:24,535 at London Uni, aren't you? 88 00:07:24,577 --> 00:07:25,636 - Yeah, that's right. 89 00:07:26,146 --> 00:07:27,239 - That's where I went. 90 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:28,509 - What did you read? 91 00:07:28,548 --> 00:07:29,641 - Geography. 92 00:07:29,683 --> 00:07:31,675 - And you became a policeman? 93 00:07:31,718 --> 00:07:32,947 - Yeah. 94 00:07:32,986 --> 00:07:34,147 - What happened? 95 00:07:34,187 --> 00:07:36,156 - Have you ever studied geography? 96 00:07:43,730 --> 00:07:44,561 Hello. 97 00:07:44,597 --> 00:07:45,895 It's Nicola, isn't it? 98 00:07:46,132 --> 00:07:49,466 I'm DCI Navar, and this is Professor Ryan. 99 00:07:49,736 --> 00:07:51,364 She's helping us work out what happened, 100 00:07:51,404 --> 00:07:53,566 and she'd like to ask you a few questions now. 101 00:07:53,873 --> 00:07:54,897 Is that okay? 102 00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:04,349 - You clean for the brothers once a week on a Thursday? 103 00:08:04,384 --> 00:08:05,579 - That's right. 104 00:08:07,354 --> 00:08:11,052 - When you found them, did you touch anything 105 00:08:11,091 --> 00:08:12,719 or disturb anything? 106 00:08:15,862 --> 00:08:17,956 How well did you know them? 107 00:08:17,998 --> 00:08:19,466 - Not very. 108 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:21,995 I just came in and cleaned. 109 00:08:22,035 --> 00:08:25,631 - When you came last week, did you see them? 110 00:08:25,939 --> 00:08:28,704 - No, I haven't seen them for weeks. 111 00:08:28,742 --> 00:08:31,940 I have my own key and I let myself in. 112 00:08:31,978 --> 00:08:34,345 - And how were they the last time you saw them? 113 00:08:34,681 --> 00:08:36,343 How do you mean? 114 00:08:36,383 --> 00:08:40,514 - Oh, were they well, was there anything getting them down? 115 00:08:40,553 --> 00:08:42,681 - Not that I know of. 116 00:08:42,722 --> 00:08:46,124 I don't think they'd tell me, even if there was. 117 00:08:47,193 --> 00:08:49,628 - Did they take any medication? 118 00:08:49,662 --> 00:08:51,153 - I can't say. 119 00:08:51,197 --> 00:08:54,065 There was some pills in the bathroom cupboard, 120 00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:56,899 but I don't know what they're for. 121 00:08:57,937 --> 00:08:58,937 - Thanks. 122 00:09:05,111 --> 00:09:06,443 - Anything? 123 00:09:06,479 --> 00:09:09,779 - Just painkillers, indigestion tablets. 124 00:09:14,687 --> 00:09:16,883 Some prescribed blood pressure tablets. 125 00:09:16,923 --> 00:09:18,701 Could they have anything to do with it? 126 00:09:18,725 --> 00:09:19,725 - Doubt it. 127 00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:24,592 Same as the bathroom. 128 00:09:42,048 --> 00:09:43,380 - Anyone else been upstairs yet? 129 00:09:43,416 --> 00:09:46,215 - Yes, but nothing's been touched. 130 00:09:49,389 --> 00:09:52,120 And the neighbor across the road rang the local Mick 131 00:09:52,158 --> 00:09:54,718 a couple of days ago, she was worried she hadn't seen them. 132 00:09:54,761 --> 00:09:55,922 And? 133 00:09:55,962 --> 00:09:57,402 Woodentop came around, 134 00:09:57,664 --> 00:09:59,758 couldn't see anything unusual, so he left it. 135 00:09:59,799 --> 00:10:00,596 Brilliant. 136 00:10:00,633 --> 00:10:01,430 Anything else? 137 00:10:01,468 --> 00:10:03,937 - Not yet; plenty of people still to see. 138 00:10:03,970 --> 00:10:06,667 Seems the old boys were pretty popular. 139 00:10:06,706 --> 00:10:07,706 - Popular? 140 00:10:07,974 --> 00:10:09,943 This place is like a mausoleum. 141 00:10:09,976 --> 00:10:10,944 Weird. 142 00:10:10,977 --> 00:10:13,503 - They gave a lot to local charities. 143 00:10:13,546 --> 00:10:14,590 Last year they coughed up the money 144 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:18,745 to send a kid to America for an operation. 145 00:10:19,018 --> 00:10:21,578 - Okay, I'm through here. 146 00:10:21,921 --> 00:10:23,412 There's nothing else I can do. 147 00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:27,325 - Okay, if everyone's happy, let's remove the bodies. 148 00:11:09,869 --> 00:11:11,201 - I'll be about 10 minutes, okay? 149 00:11:11,237 --> 00:11:12,982 Stopping Professor Robert Newman's 150 00:11:13,006 --> 00:11:14,304 lecture tour today. 151 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:16,536 As the professor arrived at the university, 152 00:11:16,576 --> 00:11:19,205 he was jostled by protesters incensed with 153 00:11:19,612 --> 00:11:23,777 his controversial stance on super-race genetics. 154 00:11:32,592 --> 00:11:35,323 - The shop's been there as long as anyone can remember. 155 00:11:35,361 --> 00:11:37,039 The guy and the news agents across the road 156 00:11:37,063 --> 00:11:39,191 thought they must have gone on holiday. 157 00:11:39,632 --> 00:11:41,043 - When was the last time they saw them? 158 00:11:41,067 --> 00:11:43,298 - When they closed up for the weekend, Saturday. 159 00:11:43,336 --> 00:11:45,532 - They didn't think to check it out? 160 00:11:45,572 --> 00:11:47,116 - All he's bothered about is making pennies 161 00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:48,870 and haypennies on papers and fags. 162 00:11:48,908 --> 00:11:51,173 You know what these Asians are like. 163 00:11:51,211 --> 00:11:53,271 - Yeah, tell me about it. 164 00:12:07,894 --> 00:12:10,762 - I hung up my coat and got my cleaning things. 165 00:12:10,797 --> 00:12:12,789 It's what I always do. 166 00:12:12,832 --> 00:12:15,495 - You didn't go upstairs then? 167 00:12:15,535 --> 00:12:17,902 - No, I always do downstairs first. 168 00:12:17,937 --> 00:12:19,963 - So you don't know anything about a mattress 169 00:12:20,006 --> 00:12:22,237 that had been stood on its side? 170 00:12:22,275 --> 00:12:23,299 - Mattress? 171 00:12:23,343 --> 00:12:24,868 On its side. 172 00:12:24,911 --> 00:12:26,641 - Um, I... 173 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:27,578 It was in the bedroom 174 00:12:27,614 --> 00:12:29,708 at the top of the stairs, Nicola. 175 00:12:30,783 --> 00:12:33,412 - We've still no motive for murder, no murder weapon, 176 00:12:33,453 --> 00:12:35,285 and the place was locked up. 177 00:12:35,321 --> 00:12:36,345 - Nothing missing? 178 00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:38,722 - In a chest of drawers hidden under a few shirts 179 00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:42,889 was just sort of 23 grand, in cash, totally untouched. 180 00:12:44,731 --> 00:12:47,257 I'm still heading for a suicide pact. 181 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:48,759 - Oh, really? 182 00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:52,095 - If you're keeping something from us, Nicola, 183 00:12:52,372 --> 00:12:53,931 it'd be best to tell us now. 184 00:12:53,973 --> 00:12:55,771 Get it over with, eh? 185 00:12:56,042 --> 00:12:57,772 Do you live here alone? 186 00:12:57,810 --> 00:12:58,778 - Yeah. 187 00:12:58,811 --> 00:13:01,747 So, who reads the girly mags? 188 00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:03,058 Not gonna tell me you're getting it 189 00:13:03,082 --> 00:13:04,311 for the articles, are you? 190 00:13:04,350 --> 00:13:06,581 - We can search the place, if you want us to. 191 00:13:06,619 --> 00:13:08,019 Get some more proof. 192 00:13:08,054 --> 00:13:09,716 Belongs to my boyfriend. 193 00:13:09,756 --> 00:13:11,657 - And what's his name? 194 00:13:12,025 --> 00:13:13,584 - Gary Lomax. 195 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:15,561 And he lives here, does he? 196 00:13:15,595 --> 00:13:17,063 Why didn't you say? 197 00:13:17,096 --> 00:13:18,291 - I don't know. 198 00:13:19,732 --> 00:13:22,930 - No visible sign of any facial injury. 199 00:13:24,604 --> 00:13:28,632 And nothing to the rest of the head and the neck. 200 00:13:32,912 --> 00:13:34,608 There's a small area of localized bruising 201 00:13:34,647 --> 00:13:38,243 on the front-left side of the chest. 202 00:13:38,284 --> 00:13:41,015 With what appears to be a puncture wound 203 00:13:41,054 --> 00:13:45,185 which has caused some bleeding into the soft tissues. 204 00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:52,461 Puncturing could have been caused by a needle, 205 00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:56,230 consistent in size with a hypodermic syringe. 206 00:14:00,373 --> 00:14:03,343 The right wrist is thinner than the left. 207 00:14:03,376 --> 00:14:07,404 There's a loss of muscle mass and some deformity. 208 00:14:08,448 --> 00:14:10,314 Also signs of a recent fracture. 209 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:13,582 We need an X-ray to get a better idea. 210 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,920 This is interesting. 211 00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:16,955 What? 212 00:14:16,989 --> 00:14:21,120 - The right wrist shows signs of linear indentation. 213 00:14:21,594 --> 00:14:25,793 And superficial abrasions consistent with ligature marks. 214 00:14:25,832 --> 00:14:27,698 - What could have caused that? 215 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,992 - Possibly a rope, or something with a similar, 216 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:31,504 roughened surface. 217 00:14:34,474 --> 00:14:36,170 The left wrist is the same. 218 00:14:36,209 --> 00:14:37,619 Let's take a look at body number two 219 00:14:37,643 --> 00:14:40,340 and see if we've got a matching pair. 220 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:41,557 - Do you own a blue Ford Escort, 221 00:14:41,581 --> 00:14:44,779 registration number G-777-JDW? 222 00:14:45,351 --> 00:14:46,683 - Yes. 223 00:14:46,719 --> 00:14:48,279 You use it to go to work? 224 00:14:48,421 --> 00:14:50,447 - No, I can't drive. 225 00:14:50,490 --> 00:14:52,288 I bought the car to learn to drive, 226 00:14:52,325 --> 00:14:54,055 but I haven't passed my test yet. 227 00:14:54,093 --> 00:14:55,391 So Gary uses it. 228 00:14:56,662 --> 00:14:58,688 - He drive you to work then, does he? 229 00:14:58,731 --> 00:14:59,892 - Yes. 230 00:14:59,932 --> 00:15:02,026 - How come he didn't drive you yesterday? 231 00:15:02,068 --> 00:15:03,331 - He was busy. 232 00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:05,805 - Too busy to drive you in your car? 233 00:15:05,838 --> 00:15:06,838 - Yeah. 234 00:15:07,807 --> 00:15:10,140 - And is Thursday the only day you work for the brothers? 235 00:15:10,176 --> 00:15:11,701 - That's right. 236 00:15:12,211 --> 00:15:15,204 - How come the car was seen there last Monday? 237 00:15:17,283 --> 00:15:21,414 - Yes, there's a similar puncture wound on the chest. 238 00:15:25,425 --> 00:15:29,692 And the same possible rope burns on both wrists. 239 00:15:29,729 --> 00:15:31,493 - Are you saying they were tied up? 240 00:15:31,531 --> 00:15:32,794 - That's what it looks like. 241 00:15:32,832 --> 00:15:34,276 Whether that happened before or after 242 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:37,202 they were injected in the chest, I don't know. 243 00:15:37,236 --> 00:15:39,102 - This is all a bit elaborate, isn't it? 244 00:15:39,439 --> 00:15:40,702 Injections in the chest? 245 00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:42,284 - The injection may have punctured the heart, 246 00:15:42,308 --> 00:15:43,886 but I won't be able to tell that until I've done 247 00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:45,970 an internal examination on the organs. 248 00:15:46,012 --> 00:15:47,742 - Could it have been a thin knife? 249 00:15:48,214 --> 00:15:49,910 No, I don't think so. 250 00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:53,613 Your suicide theory is looking less and less likely. 251 00:15:57,089 --> 00:15:58,089 Body one. 252 00:16:02,528 --> 00:16:04,724 There's a skin graft on the left arm. 253 00:16:04,764 --> 00:16:05,561 Can I have the measure, please? 254 00:16:05,598 --> 00:16:06,598 Thank you 255 00:16:11,370 --> 00:16:15,501 It's approximately three centimeters by two centimeters. 256 00:16:36,362 --> 00:16:38,922 And the same on body two. 257 00:16:38,965 --> 00:16:42,493 It's in a similar position, a similar size. 258 00:16:46,072 --> 00:16:47,165 We need to get photographs 259 00:16:47,206 --> 00:16:50,233 of these as soon as possible, please. 260 00:16:50,276 --> 00:16:52,302 - Nobody's accusing you of anything, Nicola. 261 00:16:52,712 --> 00:16:54,840 But someone went upstairs and moved that mattress. 262 00:16:54,881 --> 00:16:55,678 - Not me. 263 00:16:55,715 --> 00:16:56,859 - And we wanna know what your boyfriend was 264 00:16:56,883 --> 00:16:58,408 doing at the house on Monday. 265 00:16:58,451 --> 00:16:59,214 - I don't know. 266 00:16:59,252 --> 00:17:01,187 - I been in this bloody job too long, girl. 267 00:17:01,487 --> 00:17:03,479 I can smell a liar at 50 paces. 268 00:17:03,523 --> 00:17:06,391 I want the truth and I want it now. 269 00:17:08,194 --> 00:17:10,186 - What about time of death? 270 00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:12,469 - Because of the putrefaction of the right iliac fossa... 271 00:17:12,698 --> 00:17:13,698 What's that? 272 00:17:13,733 --> 00:17:17,192 - It's that green discoloration on the body. 273 00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:21,736 They're probably dead for about two, three days. 274 00:17:21,774 --> 00:17:23,709 I'll get a forensic entomologist in. 275 00:17:24,043 --> 00:17:26,410 They'll be able to work it out from the development 276 00:17:26,445 --> 00:17:28,437 of the maggot pupae cycle. 277 00:17:28,481 --> 00:17:31,315 There were eggs found in the eye and nasal orifices. 278 00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:32,682 - But the injections in the chest 279 00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:34,710 are the likely cause of death, yeah? 280 00:17:34,754 --> 00:17:35,585 - I don't know. 281 00:17:35,621 --> 00:17:37,590 We have to wait for toxicology to get back. 282 00:17:37,823 --> 00:17:39,917 - Could they have injected each other? 283 00:17:39,959 --> 00:17:41,928 - Death was rapid. 284 00:17:41,961 --> 00:17:44,021 It's like they both had a heart attack. 285 00:17:44,063 --> 00:17:45,122 - At the same time? 286 00:17:45,164 --> 00:17:46,188 Exactly. 287 00:17:46,232 --> 00:17:47,564 - Which means what? 288 00:17:47,867 --> 00:17:50,769 - That it wasn't a freak of nature. 289 00:17:58,344 --> 00:18:00,438 - Yeah, yeah, fine, thanks. 290 00:18:01,714 --> 00:18:03,148 You'll be pleased to know we have 291 00:18:03,182 --> 00:18:04,548 both motive and opportunity. 292 00:18:04,584 --> 00:18:06,328 My DS has just been interviewing the cleaner, 293 00:18:06,352 --> 00:18:09,151 Nicola James, and the two brothers were cash hoarders. 294 00:18:09,855 --> 00:18:11,721 Seems they didn't believe in banks. 295 00:18:11,757 --> 00:18:15,159 She reckons they had about 10 grand under the mattress. 296 00:18:15,194 --> 00:18:16,287 - And it's gone? 297 00:18:16,329 --> 00:18:18,798 It's gone alright, and we think we know where to. 298 00:18:18,831 --> 00:18:19,855 - Not Nicola. 299 00:18:19,899 --> 00:18:21,333 - Her boyfriend. 300 00:18:21,367 --> 00:18:23,768 She told him about the money. 301 00:18:31,811 --> 00:18:33,609 - Stop, police! 302 00:18:53,366 --> 00:18:55,335 Gary, Gary, please! 303 00:18:55,368 --> 00:18:57,928 - Get off me, get off me! 304 00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:00,235 Just calm down! 305 00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:04,276 - Okay, okay. 306 00:19:05,011 --> 00:19:06,011 Okay. 307 00:19:06,846 --> 00:19:09,611 - A neighbor saw his car outside the Davies's on Monday. 308 00:19:09,849 --> 00:19:11,181 When did you say about the milk? 309 00:19:11,217 --> 00:19:12,217 Four days? 310 00:19:12,251 --> 00:19:14,686 - I wasn't serious about that. 311 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,280 - The neighbor didn't think anything of it until now. 312 00:19:17,757 --> 00:19:19,817 He often dropped Nicola off. 313 00:19:19,859 --> 00:19:21,088 Then the neighbor realized 314 00:19:21,127 --> 00:19:23,926 that Nicola only worked Thursdays. 315 00:20:09,008 --> 00:20:10,237 It's true. 316 00:20:10,276 --> 00:20:11,835 - You would say that, wouldn't you? 317 00:20:11,877 --> 00:20:12,845 I swear it. 318 00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:15,973 Get real, Gary, we know you were there. 319 00:20:16,015 --> 00:20:17,483 We have a witness who saw you. 320 00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:19,144 The money was found in your possession, 321 00:20:19,185 --> 00:20:22,121 so let's stop messing about, eh? 322 00:20:22,154 --> 00:20:24,953 You arrived at the house on the Monday, then what? 323 00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:26,390 How'd you get in? 324 00:20:29,562 --> 00:20:31,121 - I used Nicola's key. 325 00:20:31,163 --> 00:20:33,894 - Once you were in the house, what did you do? 326 00:20:34,834 --> 00:20:37,235 Went upstairs. 327 00:20:37,269 --> 00:20:40,205 - Ignoring the fact the brothers were there? 328 00:20:40,239 --> 00:20:41,468 - I didn't know they were. 329 00:20:41,507 --> 00:20:44,477 - You didn't know Monday was their day off from the shop? 330 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:45,307 - No. 331 00:20:45,344 --> 00:20:46,344 - Come off it, Gary. 332 00:20:46,378 --> 00:20:48,040 That's why you chose Monday. 333 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,250 So you could find out where they hid their cash. 334 00:20:51,283 --> 00:20:53,582 - No, because I already knew where they hid it. 335 00:20:53,619 --> 00:20:55,144 Nick told me. 336 00:20:55,387 --> 00:20:57,151 I just ran upstairs and got it. 337 00:20:57,189 --> 00:21:01,024 - Was that before or after you tortured them? 338 00:21:01,060 --> 00:21:03,359 - I didn't torture no one. 339 00:21:03,395 --> 00:21:06,832 - Gary, you wanted to find out where they hid the rest, 340 00:21:06,866 --> 00:21:10,064 but they wouldn't tell you, would they? 341 00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:18,367 - That was five years ago. 342 00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:20,538 He'd been doused with petrol. 343 00:21:20,579 --> 00:21:21,774 We can do it better now. 344 00:21:21,814 --> 00:21:22,907 - Looks pretty good to me. 345 00:21:22,948 --> 00:21:23,779 - Peter Lake. 346 00:21:23,816 --> 00:21:24,784 - Hi. 347 00:21:24,817 --> 00:21:25,927 - You have some photographs? 348 00:21:25,951 --> 00:21:26,782 - Yes, I do. 349 00:21:26,819 --> 00:21:28,754 - Grafts on a dead body? 350 00:21:28,788 --> 00:21:29,881 - Bodies. 351 00:21:29,922 --> 00:21:33,518 - I don't do much work on corpses. 352 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:36,427 - They're on the left arms of two elderly brothers, 353 00:21:36,462 --> 00:21:39,830 about the same size in the same location. 354 00:21:40,933 --> 00:21:43,334 I think they're maybe covering up some sort of scar 355 00:21:43,369 --> 00:21:46,134 or burn or teenage pact, maybe. 356 00:21:46,172 --> 00:21:47,172 - Maybe. 357 00:21:48,274 --> 00:21:49,469 - If I was gonna remove them, 358 00:21:49,508 --> 00:21:52,307 would I destroy what's underneath? 359 00:21:52,611 --> 00:21:54,823 - Normally I'd say there wouldn't be anything to destroy, 360 00:21:54,847 --> 00:21:57,214 but these might be different. 361 00:21:58,217 --> 00:21:59,217 - Why? 362 00:22:00,219 --> 00:22:03,917 - They're not new, and they're not very good. 363 00:22:05,558 --> 00:22:06,768 Do you know where they were done? 364 00:22:06,792 --> 00:22:08,590 No, I don't. 365 00:22:08,627 --> 00:22:09,492 - I'd be surprised if they were done 366 00:22:09,528 --> 00:22:12,896 in this country during the last 50 years. 367 00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:15,457 Are they Jewish? 368 00:22:15,501 --> 00:22:17,265 They were both circumcised. 369 00:22:17,303 --> 00:22:18,862 - There's a good chance the grafts 370 00:22:18,904 --> 00:22:22,705 are hiding concentration camp tattoos. 371 00:22:23,042 --> 00:22:25,841 You know, a number on the forearm. 372 00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:29,778 - I'll check it out. 373 00:22:30,049 --> 00:22:32,041 - The lack of craftsmanship could be 374 00:22:33,619 --> 00:22:35,815 the result of some back-street surgery. 375 00:22:36,222 --> 00:22:39,021 Post-war eastern Europe, possibly. 376 00:22:40,593 --> 00:22:42,619 Pretty cool customer, aren't you Gary? 377 00:22:42,661 --> 00:22:45,654 You break into a house, find two dead people, 378 00:22:45,698 --> 00:22:47,690 and just carry on and rob them. 379 00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:49,395 - I didn't know they was dead. 380 00:22:49,435 --> 00:22:50,875 - When two people are not breathing, 381 00:22:50,903 --> 00:22:52,496 it normally means they're dead. 382 00:22:52,538 --> 00:22:55,064 - Look, I went upstairs first; I told you. 383 00:22:55,107 --> 00:22:58,373 - So you took the cash from under the mattress, then what? 384 00:22:58,410 --> 00:23:00,606 - Then I come downstairs and have a look around. 385 00:23:00,646 --> 00:23:02,945 - Why didn't you just leave? 386 00:23:04,717 --> 00:23:05,810 - Sorry, what? 387 00:23:05,851 --> 00:23:09,049 - Why didn't you just leave? 388 00:23:09,088 --> 00:23:11,250 - I thought there might be something else worth having. 389 00:23:11,290 --> 00:23:12,290 - Go on. 390 00:23:13,993 --> 00:23:16,519 - Then I went into the kitchen. 391 00:23:17,997 --> 00:23:20,466 You know, and there they were. 392 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,396 Where you left them. 393 00:23:23,435 --> 00:23:24,435 - No. 394 00:23:24,603 --> 00:23:27,937 No, I nearly had a heart attack myself when I found them. 395 00:23:27,973 --> 00:23:30,636 - How did you stop them calling out, Gary? 396 00:23:30,676 --> 00:23:32,008 - I didn't. 397 00:23:32,044 --> 00:23:33,068 I told you. 398 00:23:33,112 --> 00:23:34,944 - Come on, Gary, be sensible. 399 00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:37,848 Why don't you cough to the lot, get it over with? 400 00:23:37,883 --> 00:23:39,579 - Because I didn't kill 'em. 401 00:24:22,294 --> 00:24:26,356 - Can I have a photograph of this, please, Roger? 402 00:24:30,235 --> 00:24:31,464 - Miss Heywood? 403 00:24:45,351 --> 00:24:46,751 Dr. Horowitz? 404 00:24:48,787 --> 00:24:50,050 Dr. Horowitz, please? 405 00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:53,191 Doctor's ready for you. 406 00:25:02,668 --> 00:25:06,400 - Just been checking that general registry girl. 407 00:25:06,438 --> 00:25:08,100 There was an assault a few months ago. 408 00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:09,472 - What kind of an assault? 409 00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:10,840 - It was at the brother's shop. 410 00:25:10,876 --> 00:25:12,640 An argument over a payment. 411 00:25:12,678 --> 00:25:14,237 Jack Davies had his arm broken. 412 00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:16,305 - Anybody charged? 413 00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:18,317 - Carl Martin, ABH. 414 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:19,350 - What did he get? 415 00:25:19,385 --> 00:25:22,150 - 500 pounds and a year's probation. 416 00:25:22,187 --> 00:25:24,452 Better check him out. 417 00:25:24,490 --> 00:25:28,621 - Sir, I've just had a Josef Horowitz on the blower, 418 00:25:29,128 --> 00:25:32,064 says he was with the Davies brothers on the Sunday. 419 00:25:32,097 --> 00:25:34,066 I'm off to take a statement now. 420 00:25:34,099 --> 00:25:35,533 - Do we know anything about him? 421 00:25:35,567 --> 00:25:37,900 - No, but by the sounds of him, I'd better be quick. 422 00:25:37,936 --> 00:25:40,405 You'll have pegged it by the time I get there. 423 00:25:40,439 --> 00:25:41,702 - At its most basic, 424 00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:44,608 death can be regarded as natural or unnatural. 425 00:25:44,643 --> 00:25:45,975 - But never supernatural. 426 00:25:46,011 --> 00:25:47,055 Not in my experience. 427 00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:49,344 - Not in Douglas's, either. 428 00:25:49,381 --> 00:25:51,816 - If it's unnatural, it's not hard to figure out 429 00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:54,376 what role the forensic pathologist plays. 430 00:25:54,420 --> 00:25:55,897 - To have to provide medical evidence 431 00:25:55,921 --> 00:25:57,446 to say how the person died. 432 00:25:57,489 --> 00:25:59,067 You assist in finding evidence. 433 00:25:59,091 --> 00:26:00,435 - That's what I meant, and at the same time, 434 00:26:00,459 --> 00:26:01,703 you're trying to work out whether 435 00:26:01,727 --> 00:26:02,927 it was an accident, or murder. 436 00:26:02,961 --> 00:26:03,758 - Or suicide. 437 00:26:03,796 --> 00:26:05,697 That's right. 438 00:26:05,731 --> 00:26:08,496 - What about a situation where someone dies, 439 00:26:08,534 --> 00:26:11,402 as a result of having their genes altered before birth? 440 00:26:11,437 --> 00:26:13,167 - Here we go. 441 00:26:13,205 --> 00:26:14,229 - What? 442 00:26:14,273 --> 00:26:15,383 - Well, no prizes for guessing 443 00:26:15,407 --> 00:26:17,342 who was at Professor Newman's lecture. 444 00:26:17,376 --> 00:26:18,503 - Not me, I was outside. 445 00:26:18,544 --> 00:26:20,536 - At the front, with the banner. 446 00:26:20,579 --> 00:26:21,890 What's wrong with that? 447 00:26:21,914 --> 00:26:23,815 - Nothing, only you missed a good lecture. 448 00:26:23,849 --> 00:26:24,646 - I went to the lecture. 449 00:26:24,683 --> 00:26:26,709 The man is talking about preventing death. 450 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:28,721 - Yeah, but what if we make mistakes? 451 00:26:28,754 --> 00:26:30,552 Just one small error and generations 452 00:26:30,589 --> 00:26:32,785 of people could be affected. 453 00:26:32,825 --> 00:26:34,225 We're stumbling around in the dark. 454 00:26:34,259 --> 00:26:35,887 - Every step forward comes with risk. 455 00:26:35,928 --> 00:26:38,659 - So who decides what degree of risk is acceptable? 456 00:26:38,697 --> 00:26:39,790 - Medical establishment. 457 00:26:39,832 --> 00:26:40,800 Society. 458 00:26:40,833 --> 00:26:44,201 - Absolutely; it's society's choice, but as scientists, 459 00:26:44,236 --> 00:26:46,728 aren't we supposed to lay all the facts before them? 460 00:26:46,772 --> 00:26:47,603 Yeah. 461 00:26:47,639 --> 00:26:49,184 - And what if we don't know them, ourselves? 462 00:26:49,208 --> 00:26:50,208 - I do. 463 00:26:50,943 --> 00:26:53,503 - But if you weren't there to hear the lecture, 464 00:26:53,545 --> 00:26:55,639 how can you understand what's being advocated? 465 00:26:55,681 --> 00:26:56,944 - I've read about his ideas. 466 00:26:56,982 --> 00:26:58,109 Where? 467 00:26:58,150 --> 00:26:59,345 - Papers and journals. 468 00:26:59,384 --> 00:27:00,662 - What I'm trying to say, Douglas, 469 00:27:00,686 --> 00:27:02,211 is if you stand outside a lecture 470 00:27:02,254 --> 00:27:03,984 having the odd scuffle with police, 471 00:27:04,022 --> 00:27:06,234 you're not actually going to understand what's being said, 472 00:27:06,258 --> 00:27:07,954 fun though it may be. 473 00:27:26,712 --> 00:27:28,180 - Mr. Carl Martin? 474 00:27:28,213 --> 00:27:31,149 PC Armstrong, we'd like to ask you a few questions, 475 00:27:31,183 --> 00:27:32,515 if that's alright, sir? 476 00:27:32,551 --> 00:27:33,348 - What about? 477 00:27:33,385 --> 00:27:34,284 - Shall we go inside? 478 00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:35,947 - No, you can ask me here. 479 00:27:35,988 --> 00:27:37,786 Jan, take the kids in. 480 00:27:40,926 --> 00:27:42,451 So, what'd you wanna ask? 481 00:27:42,494 --> 00:27:44,156 - We'd be better inside. 482 00:27:44,196 --> 00:27:45,129 - Alright, forget it. 483 00:27:45,164 --> 00:27:46,941 We'd like to know where you were last Monday. 484 00:27:46,965 --> 00:27:48,297 - Why? 485 00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:50,165 - If you could just tell me where you were? 486 00:27:50,202 --> 00:27:52,762 No, not until you tell me why, first. 487 00:27:52,804 --> 00:27:55,137 - We could always do this at the police station. 488 00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:56,904 - Look, he was with me, alright? 489 00:27:56,942 --> 00:27:57,875 All day? 490 00:27:57,910 --> 00:27:58,934 - Yeah, all day. 491 00:27:58,977 --> 00:28:00,217 We had lunch, we went shopping, 492 00:28:00,245 --> 00:28:01,543 picked the kids up from school, 493 00:28:01,580 --> 00:28:03,310 and then spent the night watching telly. 494 00:28:03,348 --> 00:28:06,716 Was there anything else you need to know? 495 00:28:12,791 --> 00:28:14,919 - You're talking about the Nuremberg code. 496 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,960 - And what else? 497 00:28:15,994 --> 00:28:16,791 Toby? 498 00:28:16,828 --> 00:28:19,423 - The Declaration of Helsinki. 499 00:28:19,464 --> 00:28:20,864 - That's right; tell me about them. 500 00:28:20,899 --> 00:28:22,561 - They're international guidelines. 501 00:28:22,601 --> 00:28:25,503 - Which protect people involved in biomedical research. 502 00:28:25,537 --> 00:28:27,062 - There's also the ones developed by 503 00:28:27,105 --> 00:28:29,165 the Medical Research Council and the BMA. 504 00:28:29,208 --> 00:28:31,234 - And the Medical Royal Colleges. 505 00:28:31,276 --> 00:28:32,642 - That's the same thing. 506 00:28:32,678 --> 00:28:33,771 No it's not. 507 00:28:33,812 --> 00:28:35,576 - It says the same thing. 508 00:28:35,614 --> 00:28:36,843 - Which is? 509 00:28:36,882 --> 00:28:40,478 - Ah, about patient's autonomy and informed consent 510 00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:42,181 before trials, that sort of thing. 511 00:28:42,221 --> 00:28:44,213 - What if someone didn't obtain consent? 512 00:28:44,256 --> 00:28:45,256 - Oh, you tell me. 513 00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:47,816 - Well, if you were wrong, then you'd have a major problem. 514 00:28:47,859 --> 00:28:49,384 You'll be had up and done. 515 00:28:49,428 --> 00:28:50,896 - Yeah, but if they die, 516 00:28:50,929 --> 00:28:53,421 your role as a pathologist would remain the same. 517 00:28:53,465 --> 00:28:55,491 - But none of this really safeguards the people 518 00:28:55,534 --> 00:28:56,900 who need safeguarding. 519 00:28:56,935 --> 00:28:58,062 - Why not? 520 00:28:58,103 --> 00:28:59,969 - Well, if you wanna do experiments on humans, 521 00:29:00,005 --> 00:29:02,133 then you just prey on the weak. 522 00:29:02,174 --> 00:29:04,052 I could go out on the street now and I could find 523 00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:06,705 a busload of people who would sign anything for a few quid. 524 00:29:06,745 --> 00:29:08,590 - You'd still have to prove that they were mentally capable 525 00:29:08,614 --> 00:29:10,981 of making a decision. 526 00:29:11,016 --> 00:29:12,736 - How are you gonna do that if they're dead? 527 00:29:14,486 --> 00:29:16,512 - Isn't this all getting a bit fanciful? 528 00:29:16,555 --> 00:29:17,784 - I don't think so. 529 00:29:17,823 --> 00:29:19,724 Do you seriously think that Professor Newman, 530 00:29:19,758 --> 00:29:23,456 given the opportunity, wouldn't work on humans? 531 00:29:23,495 --> 00:29:25,464 - Only in the accepted way. 532 00:29:25,497 --> 00:29:27,329 - Oh, come on, think about it. 533 00:29:27,366 --> 00:29:29,077 There's thousands of people wandering around out there 534 00:29:29,101 --> 00:29:32,196 who could disappear today and nobody would know they'd gone. 535 00:29:32,237 --> 00:29:35,173 What's to stop him using those people? 536 00:29:35,207 --> 00:29:36,436 - A conscience? 537 00:29:40,379 --> 00:29:43,679 Well, I think that's about it for today. 538 00:29:43,715 --> 00:29:45,274 See you in a month. 539 00:29:52,357 --> 00:29:55,156 - There goes my honors in pathology. 540 00:29:55,193 --> 00:29:56,193 - Douglas? 541 00:29:57,496 --> 00:30:00,796 I'm really not that narrow-minded. 542 00:30:00,832 --> 00:30:04,394 A student's job is to question, disturb the status quo. 543 00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:07,133 And you do it as well as anybody. 544 00:30:10,075 --> 00:30:11,486 - Do you remember what time you arrived 545 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:13,001 at the house, Dr. Horowitz? 546 00:30:13,045 --> 00:30:14,741 - I'm not quite sure. 547 00:30:15,681 --> 00:30:17,980 - But it was Sunday, wasn't it? 548 00:30:18,016 --> 00:30:20,781 - Yes, that's right, Sunday. 549 00:30:20,819 --> 00:30:22,981 - He'd have got there around about two. 550 00:30:23,021 --> 00:30:25,183 - That's right, yes, two. 551 00:30:25,223 --> 00:30:27,192 - And how long were you there? 552 00:30:27,225 --> 00:30:29,888 Oh, I'd say a couple of hours at the most. 553 00:30:29,928 --> 00:30:30,928 I think. 554 00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:34,124 - And the Davies brothers were friends of yours? 555 00:30:34,166 --> 00:30:35,532 - Yes. 556 00:30:35,567 --> 00:30:36,878 Known them a long time? 557 00:30:36,902 --> 00:30:39,201 - Oh, a very long time. 558 00:30:39,237 --> 00:30:41,502 I lost touch with them for a while. 559 00:30:41,540 --> 00:30:44,032 He'd only recently met up with them again. 560 00:30:44,076 --> 00:30:45,874 - Did you visit them as well, Mrs. Horowitz? 561 00:30:45,911 --> 00:30:48,972 - No, no, I didn't really know them at all. 562 00:30:49,014 --> 00:30:52,348 - So basically, you arrived about two-ish? 563 00:30:52,384 --> 00:30:53,784 Yes. 564 00:30:53,819 --> 00:30:56,448 - And you were on the road again about four. 565 00:30:57,989 --> 00:30:59,434 - Well, it can't have been any later. 566 00:30:59,458 --> 00:31:01,518 He was back here before six. 567 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,324 - That's right. 568 00:31:03,362 --> 00:31:05,388 - And how were they when you left them? 569 00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:06,921 - Well, they seemed to be better. 570 00:31:06,965 --> 00:31:08,058 Better? 571 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:11,502 - Well, they'd had this bit of trouble at the shop. 572 00:31:11,536 --> 00:31:12,731 - The assault. 573 00:31:12,771 --> 00:31:15,104 - Yes, Jake ended up in hospital. 574 00:31:15,140 --> 00:31:18,474 It was a bit of a mess, really, and then they started 575 00:31:18,510 --> 00:31:21,412 having these late-night visitations. 576 00:31:21,446 --> 00:31:22,971 How do you mean? 577 00:31:23,014 --> 00:31:26,041 - People shouting through the letter box. 578 00:31:26,084 --> 00:31:28,315 Throwing things at the house. 579 00:31:28,353 --> 00:31:29,844 - What type of things? 580 00:31:29,888 --> 00:31:32,858 - Eggs, anything that causes a mess. 581 00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:35,861 When you start to get on a bit, 582 00:31:35,894 --> 00:31:39,023 things like that can be very upsetting. 583 00:31:39,064 --> 00:31:40,064 - Of course. 584 00:31:40,098 --> 00:31:41,691 Thank you for getting in touch. 585 00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:42,894 It's been very useful. 586 00:31:42,934 --> 00:31:45,460 If you think of anything else, please give us a ring. 587 00:31:45,504 --> 00:31:49,100 - This man they've arrested, ah, who is he? 588 00:31:49,141 --> 00:31:51,076 I'm afraid I can't tell you. 589 00:31:51,109 --> 00:31:54,637 At the moment, he's helping us with our inquiries. 590 00:31:54,679 --> 00:31:56,409 He hasn't been charged with anything. 591 00:31:56,448 --> 00:31:58,110 - Oh, do you think he will be? 592 00:31:58,150 --> 00:31:59,394 I really can't say. 593 00:31:59,418 --> 00:32:00,784 Thanks again. 594 00:32:00,819 --> 00:32:02,913 - Death in both cases was caused by an injection 595 00:32:02,954 --> 00:32:06,015 of modified glycol, directly into the heart. 596 00:32:06,057 --> 00:32:07,525 - Glycol, what's glycol? 597 00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:08,891 - It's a type of alcohol, 598 00:32:08,927 --> 00:32:10,623 but he'd added some other substances. 599 00:32:10,662 --> 00:32:12,995 They're still trying to work out what they are. 600 00:32:13,031 --> 00:32:14,522 - Which means we're none the wiser. 601 00:32:14,566 --> 00:32:16,177 Where the hell would you get glycol from? 602 00:32:16,201 --> 00:32:18,227 - Well, you wouldn't carry it around with you. 603 00:32:18,270 --> 00:32:21,399 It gave the impression of a sudden, massive heart attack. 604 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,418 The bruising to the chest was caused by the injection. 605 00:32:23,442 --> 00:32:24,569 - Cliff, get on the blower. 606 00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:26,771 I want teams down to the Davies's and Lomax's. 607 00:32:26,812 --> 00:32:28,576 We're looking for modified glycol. 608 00:32:29,047 --> 00:32:31,016 - You say he worked in a school? 609 00:32:31,049 --> 00:32:31,880 Yeah. 610 00:32:31,917 --> 00:32:33,317 - Try the chemistry lab. 611 00:32:33,351 --> 00:32:34,785 - Check that out, as well. 612 00:32:35,086 --> 00:32:36,697 See if you can find some temazepam. 613 00:32:36,721 --> 00:32:37,586 - Temazepam? 614 00:32:37,622 --> 00:32:40,251 - They both had enough to knock them out. 615 00:32:40,659 --> 00:32:42,423 - Are you saying Lomax drugged them first? 616 00:32:42,461 --> 00:32:43,861 - Well, somebody did. 617 00:32:43,895 --> 00:32:45,090 - Temazepam. 618 00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:47,065 Sounds like a junky to me. 619 00:32:47,098 --> 00:32:50,262 - If you could find temazepam on a syringe at Lomax's 620 00:32:50,302 --> 00:32:53,295 with traces of glycol, then you might be onto a winner. 621 00:32:53,338 --> 00:32:55,273 - Should I make that call, gov? 622 00:32:55,307 --> 00:32:57,572 - So, what we're looking at is a man who arrives 623 00:32:57,609 --> 00:33:00,807 with temazepam and a needle full of glycol. 624 00:33:00,846 --> 00:33:02,974 He persuades the brothers to have a drink with him, 625 00:33:03,014 --> 00:33:05,006 into which he has placed the temazepam. 626 00:33:05,050 --> 00:33:07,178 He then ties them up. 627 00:33:07,219 --> 00:33:08,346 - Yes, a possible scenario, 628 00:33:08,386 --> 00:33:10,355 but why would he go to all that trouble? 629 00:33:10,622 --> 00:33:13,057 - To make them tell him where the rest of the cash was. 630 00:33:13,091 --> 00:33:15,219 And then he injects them in the heart? 631 00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:18,396 - Well, he had no choice; they knew who he was. 632 00:33:18,430 --> 00:33:19,762 - He could've achieved the same 633 00:33:19,798 --> 00:33:21,960 with something a lot simpler. 634 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,044 - He'll have read about it somewhere, 635 00:33:23,068 --> 00:33:25,628 got it off the internet, something like that. 636 00:33:25,670 --> 00:33:26,797 - Yeah, maybe. 637 00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:30,106 - You're not convinced. 638 00:33:30,141 --> 00:33:34,203 - No, but it's you who has to go with it, not me. 639 00:33:39,050 --> 00:33:40,561 According to reports I've read, 640 00:33:40,585 --> 00:33:41,596 Professor Newman, you're pursuing 641 00:33:41,620 --> 00:33:42,918 germ line research on animals. 642 00:33:43,388 --> 00:33:44,686 Yes, that's right. 643 00:33:44,723 --> 00:33:45,933 For what purpose? 644 00:33:45,957 --> 00:33:47,101 - Could you turn that up, please? 645 00:33:47,125 --> 00:33:49,560 Research is being carried out on mice that have 646 00:33:49,594 --> 00:33:53,497 been genetically altered to mimic human conditions. 647 00:33:53,532 --> 00:33:57,628 We take a mouse embryo, manipulate the genes, replace it 648 00:33:57,669 --> 00:34:01,834 in the mother, and see if a healthy mouse is born. 649 00:34:01,873 --> 00:34:04,468 Sounds very unpleasant for the mouse. 650 00:34:04,509 --> 00:34:05,887 I presume you would prefer 651 00:34:05,911 --> 00:34:09,177 that to us experimenting on humans. 652 00:34:09,214 --> 00:34:11,080 - There are objections to bail. 653 00:34:11,116 --> 00:34:13,449 First, the severity of the charge, and second, 654 00:34:13,485 --> 00:34:15,750 bearing in mind the only sentence that can be imposed 655 00:34:15,787 --> 00:34:17,779 for such a crime, it is feared that the defendant 656 00:34:17,822 --> 00:34:19,950 would fail to answer if he was granted bail. 657 00:34:19,991 --> 00:34:22,893 He has no community or family ties. 658 00:34:23,728 --> 00:34:27,859 - Gary Lomax, your case is adjourned until the 24th of July. 659 00:34:28,366 --> 00:34:31,302 You'll be remanded in custody until that date. 660 00:34:31,336 --> 00:34:33,896 The grounds for refusing bail are due 661 00:34:34,139 --> 00:34:36,870 to the seriousness of the charge. 662 00:34:55,594 --> 00:34:57,085 - Excuse me? 663 00:34:57,529 --> 00:35:00,431 You came and took a statement from me. 664 00:35:00,465 --> 00:35:02,127 That's right, Mr. Horowitz. 665 00:35:02,167 --> 00:35:05,228 - Yes, about the man that's just been remanded, 666 00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:07,466 are you sure he did it? 667 00:35:07,505 --> 00:35:09,974 - That'll be for the jury to decide, sir. 668 00:35:10,275 --> 00:35:13,575 - But I think you may have the wrong man. 669 00:35:13,612 --> 00:35:15,547 - Do you have some more information for us? 670 00:35:15,580 --> 00:35:18,277 - No, you don't understand; he didn't do it. 671 00:35:18,316 --> 00:35:20,478 - Mr. Horowitz, if you have any information, 672 00:35:20,919 --> 00:35:22,285 I'd be happy to send a man round 673 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,347 to take a further statement from you. 674 00:35:28,593 --> 00:35:30,289 - Checked out what the old boy told us 675 00:35:30,328 --> 00:35:32,058 about late night disturbances. 676 00:35:32,097 --> 00:35:34,498 None of the neighbors were aware of anything wrong, sir. 677 00:35:34,532 --> 00:35:35,898 - No broken windows or anything? 678 00:35:35,934 --> 00:35:36,765 - Nope. 679 00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:40,932 - I think you should look at the motive of the crime. 680 00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:43,168 - Mr. Horowitz. 681 00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:47,745 If you have any further information, please, 682 00:35:48,113 --> 00:35:52,244 call the station and we'll come and take a statement, okay? 683 00:35:52,651 --> 00:35:54,381 Like I said, if you ever want to, 684 00:35:54,419 --> 00:35:57,821 we'd be more than happy to listen to you. 685 00:36:09,701 --> 00:36:11,101 - Professor Ryan. 686 00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:12,997 This is for you. 687 00:36:13,038 --> 00:36:13,971 - Thanks. 688 00:36:14,005 --> 00:36:15,769 - There's someone waiting to see you. 689 00:36:15,807 --> 00:36:17,002 He hasn't got an appointment. 690 00:36:17,042 --> 00:36:18,135 - Who is it? 691 00:36:18,176 --> 00:36:20,042 - A Dr. Horowitz. 692 00:36:20,078 --> 00:36:20,875 - What does he want? 693 00:36:20,912 --> 00:36:22,642 - I did ask him but he wouldn't tell me. 694 00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:23,876 - Thanks, then. 695 00:36:32,957 --> 00:36:34,425 Dr. Horowitz? 696 00:36:35,593 --> 00:36:38,757 I'm Sam Ryan, how can I help you? 697 00:36:38,797 --> 00:36:41,130 - Oh, you're not as I imagined. 698 00:36:41,166 --> 00:36:42,293 - Pardon? 699 00:36:42,333 --> 00:36:43,892 - I've read most of your work. 700 00:36:43,935 --> 00:36:46,666 I always expected somebody older. 701 00:36:47,839 --> 00:36:49,899 - What can I do for you? 702 00:36:49,941 --> 00:36:52,433 - Jake and Henry Davies. 703 00:36:52,477 --> 00:36:54,503 - Sorry, I'm not able to discuss the case. 704 00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:56,879 But this is very important! 705 00:36:56,915 --> 00:36:57,925 - If you have something to say, 706 00:36:57,949 --> 00:36:59,247 you must say it to the police. 707 00:36:59,284 --> 00:37:00,308 - But I've tried. 708 00:37:00,351 --> 00:37:01,284 - I'm sorry. 709 00:37:01,319 --> 00:37:05,017 - Please, listen, Leon said you would. 710 00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:06,217 - Leon? 711 00:37:06,257 --> 00:37:07,384 Leon Foreman. 712 00:37:07,425 --> 00:37:08,484 - You know Leon? 713 00:37:08,526 --> 00:37:11,621 - Oh yes, yes, we studied together after the war. 714 00:37:11,663 --> 00:37:13,359 We always kept in touch. 715 00:37:13,398 --> 00:37:15,833 I remember him saying there was a student, 716 00:37:15,867 --> 00:37:18,860 one of his, an exceptional student, 717 00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:22,431 told me to look out for her name, Sam Ryan. 718 00:37:24,142 --> 00:37:28,238 - Look, Dr. Horowitz, you understand the situation. 719 00:37:28,279 --> 00:37:30,271 With current cases... 720 00:37:30,315 --> 00:37:34,480 - Of course, of course, but if I mention a name 721 00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:38,650 and a date, that wouldn't break any law, would it? 722 00:37:40,458 --> 00:37:41,458 - No. 723 00:37:41,926 --> 00:37:44,418 - Saul Edwards, 1996. 724 00:37:45,930 --> 00:37:49,230 Thank you for your time, Professor Ryan. 725 00:38:44,222 --> 00:38:45,222 - Yeah? 726 00:38:45,256 --> 00:38:46,433 Sam Ryan for you. 727 00:38:46,457 --> 00:38:47,857 - Okay, put her through. 728 00:38:48,293 --> 00:38:49,420 Hello? 729 00:38:49,460 --> 00:38:51,827 - Hi, I got a report back from the lab 730 00:38:51,863 --> 00:38:54,025 about the skin grafts I removed. 731 00:38:54,065 --> 00:38:54,998 - And? 732 00:38:55,033 --> 00:38:56,934 - The subcutaneous tissue under the graft 733 00:38:56,968 --> 00:39:00,132 showed traces of ink, tattooing ink. 734 00:39:00,438 --> 00:39:02,566 The grafts were covering up tattoos. 735 00:39:02,607 --> 00:39:04,576 - Do we know what the tattoos depicted? 736 00:39:04,609 --> 00:39:06,649 - Well, I can't be sure, but I think they're tattoos 737 00:39:06,978 --> 00:39:10,039 from a World War II concentration camp. 738 00:39:10,081 --> 00:39:13,245 - Do you think they may have some relevance? 739 00:39:13,284 --> 00:39:15,879 - I just thought it was something that should be considered. 740 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,981 - Okay, okay, I'll put it in the mix. 741 00:39:24,162 --> 00:39:25,721 Racist attacks. 742 00:39:25,763 --> 00:39:26,924 - Sir? 743 00:39:26,965 --> 00:39:28,642 - In the West London area, what have we got 744 00:39:28,666 --> 00:39:30,635 over the last couple of years? 745 00:39:30,668 --> 00:39:32,694 - Can I ask what this is to do with? 746 00:39:32,737 --> 00:39:36,333 - The Davies brothers were Jewish. 747 00:39:36,374 --> 00:39:40,209 - There's nothing to say this was anti-Semitic, is there? 748 00:39:40,511 --> 00:39:43,106 - Only that they may have been Jewish. 749 00:39:43,147 --> 00:39:44,147 - And? 750 00:39:44,182 --> 00:39:46,378 - And as this is a murder investigation, 751 00:39:46,417 --> 00:39:49,114 we examine all avenues, don't we? 752 00:39:50,355 --> 00:39:51,721 - Yes, sir. 753 00:39:59,964 --> 00:40:01,262 - They're all the same. 754 00:40:01,299 --> 00:40:04,428 Everything's down to racial prejudice. 755 00:40:19,984 --> 00:40:21,111 - Hi. 756 00:40:21,152 --> 00:40:22,245 - Hello. 757 00:40:22,287 --> 00:40:23,550 - Do you have a minute? 758 00:40:23,588 --> 00:40:24,783 - Ah, yes. 759 00:40:32,597 --> 00:40:34,623 So, what can I do for you? 760 00:40:34,666 --> 00:40:36,225 - I came to apologize. 761 00:40:36,267 --> 00:40:37,235 - Oh, really? 762 00:40:37,268 --> 00:40:38,268 - Yeah. 763 00:40:39,404 --> 00:40:40,404 Sort of. 764 00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:43,040 I was out of order today. 765 00:40:43,074 --> 00:40:46,340 - You were expressing opinion, that's all. 766 00:40:46,377 --> 00:40:48,573 - I'm glad you see it that way. 767 00:40:48,613 --> 00:40:50,172 It's just that I... 768 00:40:51,482 --> 00:40:53,280 Any chance of a drink? 769 00:40:55,186 --> 00:40:56,186 - Beer? 770 00:40:57,121 --> 00:40:59,022 - Yeah, that'd be great. 771 00:41:14,973 --> 00:41:17,272 This is a really nice place. 772 00:41:24,215 --> 00:41:25,239 - I think so. 773 00:41:27,885 --> 00:41:29,547 - These for some new research project? 774 00:41:29,587 --> 00:41:30,587 - No. 775 00:41:30,822 --> 00:41:31,755 - Cheers. 776 00:41:31,789 --> 00:41:34,224 What, you just have them lying around to cheer you up? 777 00:41:34,659 --> 00:41:38,619 - They're connected to a case I'm involved with. 778 00:41:39,998 --> 00:41:41,308 - I suppose that was one of the times 779 00:41:41,332 --> 00:41:43,927 when your theory was proved wrong. 780 00:41:43,968 --> 00:41:45,300 What theory? 781 00:41:45,336 --> 00:41:49,467 - Your theory about not demonstrating, but listening. 782 00:41:50,508 --> 00:41:51,874 - I didn't actually say that. 783 00:41:51,909 --> 00:41:53,207 - Didn't you? 784 00:41:53,244 --> 00:41:56,408 - Douglas, why do you only hear what you want to hear? 785 00:41:56,848 --> 00:41:58,908 What I actually said was you, um, 786 00:41:58,950 --> 00:42:01,476 have to understand someone's point of view 787 00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,078 before you can object to it. 788 00:42:03,121 --> 00:42:04,054 - What, you don't think I understand 789 00:42:04,088 --> 00:42:06,216 what Professor Newman's talking about? 790 00:42:06,257 --> 00:42:07,452 - Well, do you? 791 00:42:08,026 --> 00:42:09,688 - I've read a lot of his articles. 792 00:42:09,727 --> 00:42:11,958 - You had a chance to hear what he had to say, 793 00:42:11,996 --> 00:42:13,464 and you didn't take it. 794 00:42:13,498 --> 00:42:17,629 - Yeah, that's because I didn't like what I'd read. 795 00:42:18,603 --> 00:42:21,539 - But in a democratic society, opposing views 796 00:42:21,572 --> 00:42:24,667 have to be heard, otherwise there's no democracy. 797 00:42:24,709 --> 00:42:27,645 - Even when those views are morally and ethically suspect? 798 00:42:27,678 --> 00:42:29,271 - Well, who says? 799 00:42:29,313 --> 00:42:31,839 That could just be your subjective view. 800 00:42:32,350 --> 00:42:34,785 - So, is that just my subjective view? 801 00:42:34,819 --> 00:42:38,950 Don't be ridiculous, of course not. 802 00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:41,559 - Do you ever get angry? 803 00:42:43,294 --> 00:42:44,294 - Yes, I do. 804 00:42:45,563 --> 00:42:47,374 - It's just, it's really hard to tell with you. 805 00:42:47,398 --> 00:42:48,764 You're always so, 806 00:42:50,635 --> 00:42:51,635 contained. 807 00:42:57,008 --> 00:43:00,410 - What did you really come round here for? 808 00:43:02,713 --> 00:43:04,944 - To ask you out. 809 00:43:06,551 --> 00:43:07,551 I'm serious. 810 00:43:09,087 --> 00:43:10,749 - I think you'd better go. 811 00:43:10,788 --> 00:43:13,155 - What's wrong with that? 812 00:43:13,191 --> 00:43:14,750 - You're a student. 813 00:43:14,792 --> 00:43:17,387 - Yeah, it's alright, it's not a problem to me. 814 00:43:17,428 --> 00:43:19,329 - It's a problem to me. 815 00:43:22,767 --> 00:43:23,735 - Why not try? 816 00:43:23,768 --> 00:43:24,701 It could be fun. 817 00:43:24,735 --> 00:43:26,135 - Night, Douglas. 818 00:43:28,539 --> 00:43:31,475 - At least I know you'll think about it. 819 00:43:31,509 --> 00:43:32,719 You're the one that always goes 820 00:43:32,743 --> 00:43:35,212 on about keeping an open mind. 821 00:43:36,981 --> 00:43:38,609 Thanks for the beer. 822 00:43:53,197 --> 00:43:55,894 Don't forget something for the kids, Carl. 823 00:43:55,933 --> 00:43:58,232 - Alright, see you tomorrow. 824 00:44:00,671 --> 00:44:03,368 Hello, pathology. 825 00:44:03,407 --> 00:44:05,706 Yes, he's expecting those reports. 826 00:44:05,743 --> 00:44:08,406 We'll send a courier over today. 827 00:44:08,446 --> 00:44:09,744 - Dr. Priestly? 828 00:44:09,780 --> 00:44:11,248 - In his office. 829 00:44:11,282 --> 00:44:12,282 - Thank you. 830 00:44:18,156 --> 00:44:19,156 - Ah, Sam. 831 00:44:19,891 --> 00:44:22,383 I thought you were somebody important. 832 00:44:22,426 --> 00:44:23,553 - Still at it? 833 00:44:24,462 --> 00:44:26,931 - Only way I can get through the day. 834 00:44:26,964 --> 00:44:27,932 Would you like one? 835 00:44:27,965 --> 00:44:29,866 - I manage to hold off until I get home. 836 00:44:29,901 --> 00:44:31,460 - Are you doing a PM here? 837 00:44:31,502 --> 00:44:34,301 No, I've come to see you. 838 00:44:37,241 --> 00:44:38,241 - Thanks. 839 00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:41,506 - Saul Edwards, 1996. 840 00:44:43,247 --> 00:44:45,011 Does that ring any bells? 841 00:44:45,049 --> 00:44:48,486 - Are you poking your nose in where it's not wanted again? 842 00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:51,353 - I need to know the circumstances surrounding the death. 843 00:44:51,389 --> 00:44:54,484 Cause of death, action taken by police. 844 00:44:54,525 --> 00:44:56,517 - Hm, is that all? 845 00:44:56,561 --> 00:44:58,792 - Do you remember it? 846 00:44:58,829 --> 00:45:00,491 - Yes, I remember it. 847 00:45:01,432 --> 00:45:02,400 And? 848 00:45:02,433 --> 00:45:03,867 - Old boy drowned. 849 00:45:03,901 --> 00:45:05,062 - That's right. 850 00:45:05,102 --> 00:45:06,934 The report says he sustained cuts 851 00:45:06,971 --> 00:45:10,237 and bruises consistent with a fall. 852 00:45:10,274 --> 00:45:11,708 Really? 853 00:45:11,742 --> 00:45:13,301 - Maybe. 854 00:45:13,344 --> 00:45:15,336 - Could he have been attacked? 855 00:45:15,379 --> 00:45:17,746 - It was ambiguous. 856 00:45:17,782 --> 00:45:19,944 There was little evidence to confirm either way, 857 00:45:19,984 --> 00:45:21,782 and given the lack of evidence, 858 00:45:21,819 --> 00:45:24,550 to suggest that someone else was involved, 859 00:45:24,589 --> 00:45:26,581 well, the police found that injuries consistent 860 00:45:26,624 --> 00:45:29,685 with a fall suited them a lot better. 861 00:45:36,434 --> 00:45:38,078 Good morning, ladies and gentleman, 862 00:45:38,102 --> 00:45:42,233 and welcome aboard the. 863 00:45:57,922 --> 00:45:59,266 This is all a bit cloak and dagger. 864 00:45:59,290 --> 00:46:03,318 Just thought you'd like to get out of the office. 865 00:46:11,802 --> 00:46:13,930 - This is to do with the Davies case, I take it? 866 00:46:13,971 --> 00:46:16,202 - I've been following up on the tattoos on the arms. 867 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:17,208 And? 868 00:46:17,241 --> 00:46:19,210 - Where were you in '96? 869 00:46:19,243 --> 00:46:21,178 - With a crime squad in Leeds. 870 00:46:21,212 --> 00:46:23,738 - Then you probably don't remember the Saul Edwards case. 871 00:46:23,781 --> 00:46:25,249 - The canal death? 872 00:46:26,384 --> 00:46:29,513 - He lived with this family in West London. 873 00:46:29,553 --> 00:46:33,217 The coroner recorded an open verdict. 874 00:46:33,257 --> 00:46:36,159 They arrested Carl Martin, a known fascist, 875 00:46:36,193 --> 00:46:38,219 but he was never charged. 876 00:46:39,096 --> 00:46:41,156 Because there was no evidence. 877 00:46:41,198 --> 00:46:45,329 This says the injuries were sustained in a fall. 878 00:46:45,803 --> 00:46:47,614 - But what it fails to say is that it could also 879 00:46:47,638 --> 00:46:50,574 have been the result of an attack. 880 00:46:50,608 --> 00:46:54,375 Carl Martin is a known anti-Semite with a violent history. 881 00:46:54,412 --> 00:46:57,041 And he has a connection. 882 00:46:57,081 --> 00:46:59,243 We have no proof. 883 00:48:19,663 --> 00:48:21,655 Please. Please. 884 00:48:21,699 --> 00:48:25,830 I Am another man. Please...63630

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