All language subtitles for She played guitar with Hendrix and was sampled by Fatboy Slim — but what happened to her

Well, she's got enough energy to light

up this whole city, and she's always a

delight to see. Ladies and gentlemen,

the very exciting Miss Ellen M. Wayne.

[Music]

First time you listen, it's like, gee,

who's that band? and you stick your head

around the corner and go like,

"Whoa! All right, this woman could do

this stuff while she's sliding and

keeping the rhythm and keeping the

time." And she's the only musician

playing.

[Music]

She's just one of those players that

steps out and owns it. There's nothing

timid about it. It's 1 2 3 4. Look the

[ __ ] out.

[Music]

When a woman comes out and just kicks

the doors down and is just like super

ballsy and her hair is all over the

place and she's like really

loud. She had power and soul and attack

and feel

[Music]

She was singing all these really

complicated vocal runs effortlessly.

They were just flowing out of her. But

she was doing that while she was playing

these incredibly complex patterns.

Every kid that picks up a guitar, I

think they should hear Ellen Main before

doing anything.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Music]

All right. Okay, Ellen. So, let's start

by introducing yourself and give us a

little bit of your uh family history.

You know, where you were born, your

early childhood. Got half an hour.

Now, talk to me about your voice, the

guitar, that sound. Where did it all

come from? I was just playing. I just

held the guitar and opened my mouth and

the music came out. You know, music has

always been part of me and so I don't

try to do it. It just comes out. And I'm

so grateful that it does. And it's

gotten me through many things in my

[Music]

life. I was born in Nashville. I was

adopted by missionaries and taken to

Japan. My parents, they were

Presbyterian missionaries. And when they

adopted me, my father was 53 and he was

a great dad. He was very patient and he

was very loving and and he always told

me, "Don't be ashamed. We you're not a

mistake. We picked you. We wanted you.

We fought hard to get you. We thought

another couple was going to get you and

we got you.

Oh,

I went to a Canadian school, a Canadian

international school in Kova,

Japan. We had 200 students, 28

nationalities. Most of the classes were

in English. We started French in the

third grade and took it all the way

through grade 12. Um, we had just an

amazing education.

It was just a wonderful, wonderful way

to grow up.

[Music]

Father

along

we know all about

it. Father along

my parents their whole life was focused

because they were trying to save people.

They actually thought that if you didn't

believe this stuff, bad stuff was going

to happen when you die.

Others live in the

sunshine. We'll

understand

dear all by and by.

My parents sent me to the church

organist. And so she sat down and played

this horrible little tune called the

happy farmer. And it goes ding ding ding

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

ding ding.

Then the phone rang and she went to

answer the phone. She said, "Okay, now

you figure that

out." Well, I just played it and she

said it was

cheating. She said I had to learn to

read the notes. That I was cheating

using my

[Music]

ear. Japan had an emperor, but the king

of Japan was Ray Charles.

Mama, don't you treat me wrong.

Come and daddy.

He really influenced me. I heard him

sing and all that emotion in his voice.

I thought if I can do that, I'll be a

real

[Music]

singer. The first tune I learned to play

on the piano was Tell Me What I Say, the

Ray Charles tune. Tell me what I

say. Tell me what I say. My parents are

like rolling their eyes

and I think I was put in their lives to

loosen them up. I found

my blueberry. When I graduated from high

school is the same year my father

retired from the mission. So we all went

back to the states.

[Music]

My father sent me to this little tiny

religious college called King College in

Bristol, Tennessee. And I think he was

trying to keep me safe.

King College was a very small religious

college. There was no cars on campus, no

dancing, uh no holding hands, no public

display of affection, no smoking for the

girls. The boys could smoke anywhere

they wanted. The girls could only smoke

in their rooms. And so I broke the rule.

[Music]

One of the girls in the dorm had a

guitar and so I went up in the top of

the there was like a really echoey

atticky part attic part of the girls

dorm and I went up and played guitar up

there and sang and I

thought so I really got into the

[Music]

guitar. I dropped out of King College

and I went back to Decatur, Georgia and

I bought a guitar. I went to this junior

college, Decab Junior College it's

called. I took

art, got to learn to paint and draw in a

little bit and then I'd studied art

history and then I met other people like

me.

[Music]

We hung around in a mixed group of

people.

racially mixed in the South in

1965. So, we got pulled over a lot.

They thought we were outside agitators,

you know, coming down to organize the

vote and we were just college kids.

So I

can make I started playing at this

coffee house and there was a coffee earn

and you would put a dime in the cup and

get a cup of coffee and people would

recite poetry and you know we thought we

were beatnicks and everything.

[Applause]

Then I started playing at the bottom of

the barrel which was a bar and I'm sure

I was too young but nobody cared.

And I met a whole lot of other people. I

met a wonderful old blues player named

Buddy Moss and he was big in the 30s and

he used to come and play here at the

bottom of the barrel. His wife would

drop him off and then come back and get

him. And he used piano wire for guitar

strings. I mean he was old school and he

was wonderful. And I learned so much

from him like there was a different set

of numbers for the Black Musicians Union

than there was for the White Musicians

Union. all kinds of things like that

that I didn't grow up with that.

A guy named Pat Sky, he discovered me, I

guess you could say, and he said, "If

you come to New York, you can stay with

me and I'll get you some gigs with my

manager. You'll get some gigs there and

everything." I'd only been playing a

year.

Baby, I already gone before.

Yes, all these years that the road has

been on me.

[Music]

When I went to New York, I mean, that

was it for me. I'm not going to be a

secretary or marry a preacher like my

parents hope I would. And I'm not going

to do those things. I want to play

music.

[Music]

But it does not be in the train.

Greenwich Village was the mecca. This is

where you came if you wanted to hear

music. You picked up a copy of the

Village Voice at a news stand somewhere

and you leaf through it to see who was

playing and and all of the clubs were

hopping. Bleecker Street Cinema was

across the street and the Cafe Wow was

around the corner. Directly across the

street was was the Garrick Theater where

Frank Zappet and the mothers played. If

you wanted folk singers and you wanted

to hear unique stylists and stylistic

interpreters, you came to the bitter end

or you came to the cafe of go, they

would have multiple bands playing each

night. There were folk artists, there

were blues artists, there were people

like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker,

Richie Havens played there and a group

called the Blues Project played there

and Odetta was an introduction to the

blues and a very strong personality on

stage. Nina Simone was playing around

and Joanie Mitchell was playing

It was uh just an amazing time to see

emerging women, but I never saw anything

that moved me as much as Ellen Mwing.

The first gig I got was at the gaslight.

My knees were shaking. Oh my god. But I

covered it up pretty good and I got

through the set. I did a Bob Dylan tune

and I always change the she's and he's

around. I'm not going to sing I'm in

love with the farmer's daughter unless I

am. And that's never happened yet, you

know. So, so, so I changed the she's and

he around and Jack Solomon came up to me

afterwards and said, "Who do you think

you are?" And I said, I thought, "Excuse

me?" And he said, "Changing the words to

a Bob Dylan song." And I said, "Well,

I'm Ellen Molene. Who are you?"

[Music]

I was a young guy trying to find out

where the scene was, where the happening

scene was. I didn't know anything about

anything other than how I felt with what

I heard. And I poked my head in one room

and there was this woman on stage, you

know, good-looking woman just, you know,

it's like it's like, okay, all that all

that stuff was aside. This is a musician

that's got a a really creative way of

playing.

[Applause]

[Music]

My father decided to come to Greenwich

Village and see just what was going on

and if his daughter was okay. He stayed

one or two nights. One of those nights,

he came to the club and met some of the

other musicians who were backstage and

listened to my set. The next day, he

took me to brunch at Manetta's

restaurant for a real dinner. I asked

him what he thought of my set, and he

said, "Well, now, which tunes did you

write, Ellen?" I said, "Whatever it was,

two, four, and five." And he said, "Now,

those are the ones I liked." It didn't

strike me till years later what a kind

and beautiful thing that was for him to

have said

[Music]

after the gaslight. Then I got a regular

gig at the cafe of GoGo. I was at the

Cafe Go for six months, six nights a

week, man. Oh

man. And that was really I made a $150 a

night which is cab for home.

I opened for everybody. I opened for

Richard Prior for God's sake. I opened

for buddy guy Junior Wells. I loved him.

But he so we were hanging out backstage

and we were listening to some white

blues man and he said, "White

people white people always got to play

the blues too

fast." And I thought, "Oh, I got to

clean up my act.

[Music]

I watched Randy California take a string

and soak it in lighter fluid and blow

the neck off a wine bottle and play

bottleneck guitar. And I thought, I

could do that. I can play in tunings and

play slide. And so then I started and

nobody taught me anything. I just kind

of banged around on it and came up with

my stuff. But

people like Frank Zappa, Mike

Bloomfield, or Muddy Waters. These are

people who came to the club when they

weren't playing just to see her.

John Hammond came to town and with John

Hammond came Jimmy James and the Blue

Flames. And that was Jimmy

[Music]

Hendrickx. when his gig was over with

John Hammond, he came to me and he said,

"So, can I play with you on your

set?" And I thought, "Oh my

god." He sat on a bar stool and his long

legs leaned out over the stage and just

played gently

[Music]

accompaniment. He was such a sensitive

person. And I just can't say enough

about him that he was so supportive of

me. He was like a big brother, but he

really had an effect on me. He was the

only guy I ever wrote home about. Was he

really there at

[Music]

all? Was it just a call that I

heard from the hollow

[Music]

wall running down the river

bottom cast a spell on the storm lion.

The fact that Jimmyi Hendris wanted to

sit in with her just says respect.

you know, he he had enough respect for

her music that he would present himself

with her. And then on multiple nights

means he must have had a good time, you

know, cuz if it's not happening, you're

not going to come back the next night.

Ellen always when she spoke of Jimmy,

she spoke of him with a great deal of

reverence and affection, too.

They were both explorers, and I think

even though Ellen was so young, I can't

imagine that she didn't have the same

fire and the same spirit. And I think

Jimmy probably felt a little bit of a

kindred spirit there. And Hendrickx was

like that. You know, somebody's cool. It

wasn't like I'm here and you're there,

you know, or I think of myself as being

better this way. That he was always just

a real person. So come in contact with

somebody playing like Ellen, you would

where's my guitar? Let's get in here and

jam and do something.

[Music]

When we played together on stage, the

audience was quite cool. It took me

about 10 years to realize what they saw

was a black man and a white woman on

stage doing something together and and

it freaked them

[Music]

out. So I called the manager. I won't

say who it is because it's not a very

nice story about him, but I called him

on the pay phone backstage and I said,

"Well, you wanted me to put a band

together." I said, "I've got a guitar

player." And I described Jimmy to him

and he said, "Oh, no. I know who that

is. He's black. You don't want him in

your band." And I thought, "Actually, I

don't want you for my manager.

[Music]

Give me a ticket for an

I started thinking, you know, I need to

put a band together and I met Chris

Saloon who still lives Woodstock, who

was my first league guitar player and

only league guitar player.

[Music]

Ellen M. Wayne never really needed a

band. She's rhythm, she's lead, she

slides, she's got the strongest vocals,

but the timing was perfect for bands.

He couldn't live without me.

We started playing in the local clubs,

but she didn't give us a lot of

direction, but the main thing she said

was, "Don't ever play the same thing

twice. Do not repeat yourself. This is

improvised music."

[Music]

Her point was, "Every time we get on

stage, it's something fresh and

something new." And you're we all are

going to make a statement together. And

it was very powerful. I mean, we looked

up to her like like none

[Music]

other chain.

We moved to Woodstock because we played

at the original Woodstock festival which

was called the Woodstock Sound Out.

[Music]

It was on a field right there owned by

Pan Copeland right in Woodstock and uh

Catmother rented that there was a

farmhouse that went with it and they had

rented that house and we asked the first

time we played there, can we sleep on

your porch? So they said sure. So we did

and it was funny because all the guys

they were all guys. It was Happy and

Arty Trum, there was Elephant's Memory.

There was Catmother. There, you know,

all those nice names. And then we were

the only ones who had a girl in the

band. It was called Fear of Self.

with and the sorrow upon his

storing lightning. The first time I

heard her was at the Woodstock sound

outs and what I noticed was this white

girl can sing. This firecracker of a

woman plugging in a guitar and just

sliding and wailing. So the strider

the main thing about Ellen, her voice,

her time, her rhythm, and her slide and

guitar playing.

None of that matters unless you can

project all of that to audiences. And

she did that like a queen. When when she

opened her mouth and got started, she

got people's attention.

his home.

We had the high hopes of uh conquering

New York City and the music business.

[Music]

We recorded an album actually in in the

record plant which was the place to go

back then. And uh the producer was that

who put it together was Tom Wilson.

[Music]

He was the producers's producer of the

day having worked with Simon and

Garfuncle Bob Dylan.

and Frank Zappen.

He was a great producer because he never

said, "Oh, you have to tell your head."

Never. He just said, "Oh." Oh, yeah.

[Music]

[Applause]

In the next studio, that was where

Jimmyi Hendricks was recording.

Eddie Kramer was his engineer and that's

the perfect engineer for Jimmy to have

had because all the experimentation and

the thinking outside the box. Eddie

Kramer went there with him, you know.

So, and he went there with

[Music]

us. Funniest gig we had was in a Central

Park in Sheep's Meadow. 20,000 people.

Okay. And I always start all the songs

because they're my songs. So I start the

song. Sometimes I think

about nobody comes in. Nobody comes in.

And I'm looking around and the band is

like because it's 20 20,000. So anyway,

I turned around and looked and they oh

okay.

And so funny. But so of course we played

for free because it was for promotion.

[Music]

drinking river. We were trying to pick a

manager and there were several guys on

the scene. We were trying to make a

decision and Frank Zappa was there and I

asked him, you know, which one of these

guys do you think I should go with? and

and he said it's in this Frank typical

Frank Zappa fashion. He said, "Well,

they're all crooks. You just have to

decide which one can do something for

you." We were very unhappy with the

management because they didn't follow

through with any of these things they

were supposed to do that they said they

were going to do. And we were really

disgusted with them. Tom Wilson had a

meeting with Ellen and I, not the rhythm

section, and he said, "Look, I know it's

been trouble for you guys, but here's

what we're going to do. We're going to

fly you two out to LA. We'll fire the

your rhythm section. We'll get you the

best uh side men in Los Angeles and

we'll make the second album and it'll be

killer. And you know, she and I just

exchanged a glance and just said, "No

thanks." Cuz we were kind of

naive. They did send us out on some

really good shows and uh some halfass

cross country tours that they didn't

really back. and we played a set and

Ellen just said, "That's it."

[Music]

She kept her integrity. That's more

important than anything. She went back

to being a single and never had a band

again. Fear itself was was no longer

[Music]

Money is cut off. Album doesn't even

have a release date. We sit around left

to get our own

jobs. My teeth are cracking out.

Everyone else can get money from their

parents. But I guess I'll have to quit.

Forget the singing. But I'm too good to

quit. And anyway, it's like breathing.

[Music]

Peter K. Seagull heard about me and

Polydor decided to do an album with

me. Tohold. It was on an album called

Honky Tonk Angel and it was recorded

live at the bitter end with a cougar

player named Billy Curtis and my friend

Don Moore on bass and myself on guitar

and vocal.

to have a rehearsal with Ellen

was not going to happen. She just had

you come to the gig and she gives you

the freedom to be creative. I never

remember in a couple of albums and all

never remember her saying don't play

that that way, play it this way or

whatever. She was just here's the

baseline b and when I hit the changes it

changes with me. She was

Creativity should be open, inventive,

and inspiring. A live record don't lie.

You know, that was long before pitch

correction, and any mistakes that are in

sound great.

What really separates Ellen from the

whole thing is that she wasn't awaited

down by the conventionality of the

music.

Whatever the elements that came together

for her to create her music, it was

outside of what everybody else everybody

else would have normally

[Music]

done. I'm right on through.

But in addition to that, now she had

become a stylistic interpreter of the

music.

her arrangements, her interpretation of

these classic songs that we

knew and were totally familiar with. She

just brought something completely new

and fresh to it. Come down off your

throne. Leave your body

alone. Somebody's got to change.

is you are the reason I have been

waiting for so

long. Somebody holds a key. It ain't

me. Well, I'm a million. I mean, her

voice and when you heard her, it just

kind of when I heard her, it went

through me and uh I was immediately a

fan.

the song I can't find my way home which

Steve Winwood had had written you know

with Blind Face I mean one of the great

songs in rock and roll and here was this

woman singing it and to me she did a

better job than the original and it it

just blew me away. One of her

talents was to be able to input all

these influences and output it in her

way uh instead of copying things. And

you can see that with the cover songs

that she did. You'll never hear the

cover as it was recorded the original

way. It always goes through the Ellen

machine and and out any damn way she

pleases.

And I can't find my way home.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Musicians are a reflection of the

environment that we are part of.

The Vietnam War was an important part of

our

history and we weren't separating men

from women in any way. It was all these

creative forces, men and women doing

their thing. If you know about Mandrel,

they were one of the

first

multi-racial black bands from various

parts of the world. The Caribbean,

Africa, from Europe, the Middle East.

They all got together in the US. They

were so uniquely different with a huge

audience.

We were at Polyor and we uh communicated

with the president of the company at the

time and he thought it was a good idea

to have Ellen Mane open our show to give

her some exposure.

[Music]

And this song is for all of us because

it's called We the

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

People. Ellen got on the stage, red

hair, barefoot.

It's a sea of black people in black

leather and berets. And in the back of

the room, the Black Panthers are there.

[Music]

I've always scattered and the scatting

that I do comes from Japanese syllables.

It's not like I love Elephice Gerald and

she but she did Scooby-Doo because she

speaks English, right? And so I did daj

that because I speak Japanese and so it

just was more rhythmic. She starts

playing and the and just radiates from

the center of the universe. I mean the

center of your soul. That's that's pure

that's pure light. Pure it doesn't get

any better. neck guitar would sound like

four guitars and she

played I mean she was unique. You can

hear the audience giving her a standing

ovation halfway through the song.

The song we the people not only did it

become her anthem but an anthem for a

lot of oppressed people around the

world. That night she dedicated it to

Russell Means and the situation going on

at Wounded Knee.

[Applause]

Her songs are about we the people can

change the world.

And uh that was a big thing with her. We

can protect the children. We can make a

better world. We can change the

political framework. Was she a

revolutionary? Yes.

Thank you.

After the two albums I did on Polyor, I

was really fighting for artistic

control. I had more tunes that I wanted

to do and more experimental directions I

wanted to go in, but they thought it

should go a certain way and I thought it

should go another ways. The record

company's pressure changed. They got a

problem here because this woman is not

motivated by money to do what we want.

They said, "Tone it down. Put on these

kind of clothes, you know, do this. Get

a get a Brazilian buttlft." blah blah

blah blah blah. She didn't do none of

that. She was who she was. It take, you

know, take it or leave it. It's super

deflating when when you get enough

interest that a record label wants to

put money into you, especially a three

record

deal, your first thought is, of course,

they love me. They respect my music.

They they see a future for it. And then

when they start putting rules and

squashing it down into, you know, square

peg into the round

hole, you run the risk of absolutely

squashing the spirit of the artist. So

when a record company has a problem

where we have this talent, it costs us

money to record her, but we cannot

exploit

her. Ellen's out of here.

[Music]

One of the coolest things that Ellen

would do is she'd just make up tunings.

And this is one one of my favorite songs

of hers is that one, All to You.

And it's like an open D tuning, but the

high E stayed the same. It just feels

when I hear even just that chord, it

just sounds like Ellen to me. I haven't

heard anybody use that tuning.

[Music]

all to you, which I wrote to myself and

it was I'll bring it all back home to

you. You know, like I when when you when

you um hear no rhymes left to play, when

there's a million people on your tail,

they maybe change it to trail. They

didn't think it was polite to say tail.

[Music]

When you got no mind

left and you feel that you have

[Music]

failed and you got no time

left and there's a million people on

your trail.

I know there are not many women who have

chosen to do what I do yet. But if I

keep my mouth shut and accept being

ignored, the next woman will have to go

through it all again. And I will have

allowed this system to stifle my

existence. I can speak out. I'm a good

guitar player right in there with the

rest of them whether the business

chooses to recognize me or not.

[Music]

In 1974, there was an album came out

called The Guitar Album that featured

really great guitarists of the

time. Floyd Buchanan, Eric Clapton, Rory

Gallagher, Link Gray, TBone Walker, and

Ellen

M. Ellen was the only woman

instrumentalist on that record. And I

think it was very significant. I think

people who knew great guitar knew that

she was one of the titans. Ellen is a

prime example of somebody who was

genless.

being out there, being unique, being a

player, being in a man's world.

[Music]

If you were put on an album with Wor

Gallagher and Eric

[Music]

Clapton, that's

heavy. They're not going to stick you on

an album with those guys. Guitar gods,

shall we say, if you're not qualified. I

didn't know they were doing it. And they

told me after that they had done a

compilation

[Music]

album. I'm the only female guitar player

they had on Polydor at that

time which you know

anyway first of all playing lead guitar

is a very powerful stance and people

weren't used to seeing women in doing

that. Let's go back 40 something years

and a woman was told don't oh don't play

a two-minute solo be be polite mind your

place you know be be um don't be so

forceful don't be you know play be

nice be gentle be

introspective don't be in someone's face

I mean to cut off that part of of a

woman's create creative output I mean I

think that the story is much more

profound when seen in the long run

about women striving to be seen uh in a

man's world that has been trying to

contain and dictate essentially what

women's roles are. when I joined Michael

Jackson's band. I I remember a

conversation specifically with a guitar

player buddy of mine that he brought up

the subject of jealousy, especially when

I got the Jeff Beck gig. Um, and I said,

"Yeah, I wonder how that's taken by

other male guitar players." And he goes,

"Are you kidding me? They hate you." And

I go, "Okay, well, that's pretty blunt.

[Music]

When I went to New York, mostly I heard

was, "Well, how bad you want to make

it?" And I my response was always, "Not

that bad." And uh then then they told me

I was

difficult. You know, with a voice that

that you have, how many cases of scotch

and a lot of whiskey and cigars does it

take to get kind of a really barroom

voice like that going? No, it didn't

take me any at all. I was a missionary

kid, remember? I didn't do anything. I

just screamed a lot when I was little. I

had temper tantrums. Are you still kind

of temperamental, do you think? Do

things have to I think I'm easy to get

along with. As long as everybody does

their job, everything's all right. I've

been told that as a lady, I'm not

supposed to feel like this.

Yeah. I should be thinking about having

your baby and not your kiss.

Yeah. Well, motherhood is all right, I

guess. But it doesn't make you feel like

this.

Yeah. So, if you don't mind, daddy, I'll

just follow my preferences.

Yeah. And I won't be made to feel like

any less of a lady just because I want

to make love with

you.

Yeah. I refuse to be made to feel like

less of a lady just because I think you

could throw me through. Yeah.

So, please don't be a double standard

sitting daddy. Just take it as a

compliment to

[Music]

you. Thank you.

[Music]

I love Montreal and I love the audiences

and I love the culture and I started

French in third grade, okay, all the way

through grade 12. And I felt the

connection to everything I grew up with,

the food and the culture and the music.

Did he ever get back home?

[Music]

I played I opened for Bill Withers. One

of the nicest guy you'd ever want to

meet.

I played all sorts of outdoor concerts

and I played the rising sun. So, I just

sort of got into the scene in in Quebec

and I love the people and I just

thought, well, I think I need to move

here.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

when you went

away. You know I cried for so

long and I wanted you to stay. But

I think that every kid that picks up a

guitar, a girl or a guy today,

I think they should hear Ellen Mel Wayne

before doing anything. It's burning out

a

hole where my love used to

[Applause]

be. But it's not losing

you that's got me down so

low. Just can't find another man to take

your place. this guy that was working

with me on the promotion of uh Vomar

Blues Band phon me up said, "Hey, Bill,

I know this girl that plays great and

Ellen Mowin, you know." I said, "Well, I

heard the name, you know." He says,

"We're looking for a producer.

[Music]

I got to meet Bill Gong and the guys in

Villard Blues Band. There's nobody like

them." And there were like three bands

and they would all play together. So

sometimes there would be three drummers,

three bass players. It was just amazing.

I met Robert Nickfford and a friend of

his who was in construction put together

enough money to make a record label and

it's called

Kotaai and recorded me and we did it at

Studio Cis in Montreal.

[Music]

Ellen wanted to to get out of this big

uh big company stuff where they they

tell you what to do, they tell you what

to sing and you know. So uh for the

first one, I wanted to really put the

truth out there, you know. And she

played in studio like she played live.

Same thing. That's what I I wanted to

capture.

You say you'll see me next to

me and then you don't show. I asked her

to play a couple of tunes which was

tremendous. I said, "We don't need a

band. You know, why do you need Vomar

blues band? Like you big, you know, it's

bigger than Vimar Blues Band. What

you're doing with your guitar is

amazing. She just does this thing where

she

she goes at it and the drummer goes with

her and then she holds it back a little

bit and she hits these licks and rhythm

rhythmically it's a superior situation

when she plays guitar with the right

band and she always had the right people

behind her or she would compensate for

them with her playing. That's how great

and how good she was.

But it's not a I put eight mics on the

on her. One on the start of the neck

because she did some sounds with the

neck just hitting it, you know. One at

the end, one in the middle, one near the

hole, another one beside it, another one

off, you know, like sort of off mic, one

on her on her

amplifier, and a direct mic from her

guitar. So, uh, it sounded great, you

know, like, uh, even if you listen to

the album in stereo, you can hear all

these different sounds that are panned

all over the place.

[Music]

I hope you

understand that I change if

I coldness inside me.

You know, it's starting to

build. A woman can't be a

woman unless she's fulfilled. I don't

know why the album wasn't released in

the States because it was a great album.

Uh it was it was released in uh in the

UK and it won like the narrator war. I

don't know what but I don't know. I

don't know what happened. I think she

just got lost in the shuffle and didn't

really have a team around her to help

her. And being a woman in the game, that

didn't help either. That was like being

that was as bad or worse than being

black in the game. She flipped me out.

I used to take her in my arms every time

we'd finish a tune.

It was a great girl.

I love her.

[Music]

Right now, enjoy the sounds of uh Ellen

M. Wayne and from her brand new Warner

Brothers album, the first of two tunes

tonight, Steal Him

[Music]

[Applause]

Away. There's a

man who lives down the hall.

He's got a

girlfriend. Don't love him at all.

Jerry Shonbomb is brilliant. He I think

he's not with us anymore, but he was a

brilliant producer and he wanted to do

an R&B album. I didn't talk about this

and I will talk about this. It's called

Ellen Mane and he hired great jazz

players. Okay. And when I record the

rhythm beds are always done together.

Bass, drums, and guitar always together.

then you overdub vocals and solos and

things like that. So they were doing the

rhythm beds and I wasn't on them. And I

asked Jerry, I said, "Well, you know, I

was do them live. I'm not playing

guitar." And he said, "We don't think

you have the

chops." And if I had had I was drinking.

I didn't have any

self-esteem today. I would say, "Oh,

really? Well, you're going to have to

get somebody else." She was so connected

to her guitar and voice. It came as a

unit. You take one of those things away

and you're going to be missing something

major.

So, um I feel for her, man. She was out

there by herself.

Next time he comes knocking at my door.

[Music]

I can't imagine what that felt like

to be so deeply

unseen and disrespected by the people

that

control your career, you know, and tell

you not

to play your instrument on your record

when

that's half your voice.

We all lock the door.

And the album that they did, I mean, I I

got the first bad press I ever had

because it's not me, you know? It's it's

not what people thought I should do

after those two great Polyor albums.

They

And uh I guess they wanted to turn me

into a pop star or something.

[Music]

will lock the

door. Throw the key away. You take a

guitar out of her hands. I mean, it's

like taking brushes away from Picasso.

You can't separate the two. I mean, the

guitar was an extension of her being.

[Music]

I got a lot of adverse reaction in the

States to the radio stations wouldn't

play it. They said, "Oh, this is not

Ellen Main. Take it away.

They told me that my following had left

me. That was it. Nobody would play it.

Everybody despised me for it. I thought

I had nothing left.

[Music]

Every night I was in this chair with my

acoustic guitar and I hugged it and

cried. I just hugged my guitar and

cried. It was awful. It was awful.

And I use alcohol to to quiet the

buzzard on my shoulder.

I spend all my time fighting for

legitimacy. It takes everything I've got

and still my music falls on deaf ears.

There is a 3se second attention span for

women musicians and that's all you get.

No matter what you play or how good you

are.

Sometimes the hopelessness

is overwhelming and I just want to quit

fighting.

[Music]

But what I

try is saying

goodbye. Gone away with her.

[Music]

On all my albums, I always did a Jack

Bruce tune. This time I I just finished

a record. I didn't put a Jack Bruce tune

on

it. I put Jack Bruce on it.

[Music]

Now,

the way I ended up with Jack Bruce was

the manager I had at the time had

inherited took money from her mother.

That was part of her inheritance and

financed the album. And Judy said,

"Well, who who you going to get to play

bass?" And I said, "Everybody asked me."

And I said, "Jack Bruce. I want Jack

Bruce." And they said, "Well, if you

can't get him, who who do you want?" And

I said, "No, I want Jack Bruce." And I

had done Jack Bruce material and Pete

Brown, the guy who writes all the

lyrics, knew about me and we had talked

before actually. And so we called Pete

Brown and he said, "Oh yeah, he'll do

it. He knows who you are." So Jack came

over, they flew him over and we hung out

and did this album and we won that year

for the number one independent rock

album.

[Music]

He just did such a great job. He was

always a hero of mine and it was so nice

when you meet a hero that they become a

friend and they're nice to you and

they're a nice person, a good person. It

was really a wonderful experience.

[Music]

Did you get your tickets? Yeah. Well, I

they told me and I can pick it up at the

airport and they told me what it is and

everything to have it. Great. What about

your visa?

My visa should be here in a couple of

days anyway.

Okay.

It's been a bit uh tough for us Maway

fans over here on the other side of the

world. Ellen's made five albums. Four of

them you haven't been able to get for

years or at all. And the other one I

don't think she even particularly likes.

But I don't think there's anyone who's

heard her who's failed to be bewitched

by her voice, her playing, and her

songs. We've been waiting a long time

for this one. dedicate this to

Ellen. I had to dedicate this to other

women because they decided to call this

the venture sliding across Australia.

What you first and I think that that

sounds like fun to me.

[Music]

A friend of mine had been in New York,

went to a small club to catch Ellen and

um found her at a a a slump in her

career. She was thinking where am I?

Why? And what's going to happen? And

these vibes were picked up by my friend

who came back and said I saw her. She

was amazing but you know was a bit sad

because he was this story. And so I'm

thinking maybe this would be a time when

she would consider coming to Australia.

We were all at dinner in a restaurant in

a city of Sydney. The conversation got

around to Ellen and how unbelievable we

all thought she was. And we said, "No

one's going to bring her to to

Australia. Nobody. Isn't it disgusting?"

And Robin said, "Why don't we do it? We

should bring her." And yes, let's do

that. cling glasses. It's to Ellen. It's

to Ellen. To Ellen. And then the

question was, well, you know, what's it

going to cost us? How how are we going

to get the money? And and I said, well,

you know, we sat for a little while and

had another few drinks and and

and then I I thought about it and I

thought, well, I don't know what my

future is now. I don't know what to do

now. I've lost I've sold the bar and you

know, I was going nowhere. And I said,

"Well, why don't we just mortgage my

house?" And so we did.

It wasn't God who made hon.

Luckily, we didn't realize what was

involved in bringing an international

act to Australia because if we realize

all the hoops we had to bureaucratic

hoops we had to jump through, we had to

get checked out by the police and you

know, and I know that we looked at each

other hoping that secretly no one no one

had a misdemeanor of any sort. and we'd

given ourselves the name Honky Tonk

Angels and we'd come up with a logo, you

know.

Um, we picked her up from the airport

and Ellen was incredible. She, you know,

we we were all the the excitement was it

was indescribable actually. Um, and she

was charming and she looked um,

completely cool for somebody just

traveled that far. She was brave to

come, but I suppose we were brave to

bring her. We didn't know her personally

and everybody was fingers crossed

through a lot of this early stuff. We

did party a lot and and she is the first

person I'd ever met that could literally

drink me under the table.

She was so appealing as a human being

and so relaxed.

She felt like part of us, didn't she?

[Music]

When we filled the the uh the region

theater that night, the first night at

the region and the house lights went

down, the hearts, our hearts were

pumping because the place was full and

the stage lights came up and she

immediately started. I've never felt a

feeling like it since. And even 40 odd

years later,

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

She just went wang on the guitar

and in came the voice and the three of

us are up the back going,

"Yay, we did this. We did this. We took

this chance and look at this talent." I

mean she was we were gobsmacked.

Absolutely. She was extraordinary. The

whole tour actually turned out to be

very successful and we even made money.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

Ellen Mawane's in our studio and over

the years I've seen Ellen Mawway a

number of times and she's been on my

show and I think that really you you're

sounding better and playing better and

in better spirits than I've ever seen

you and looking better too. I mean, just

and healthy and happy. And I divide my

life up BQD and AQD before I quit

drinking and after I quit drinking. And

believe me, you're really glad I quit.

And so am I.

[Music]

I did think she

drank a lot because it was every day and

I couldn't keep up with her and I was

quite a bit younger than her. The

writing was on the wall, but it was that

she had a problem. in the middle of the

night and things don't feel quite right.

[Music]

I guess I was in the in the midst of the

same thing. We drank together. We were

drinking buddies.

When you're in the middle of an

addiction, you're the last person to

know what it's doing to you. And you

can't do anything about it until you see

it. And then you can

single word's

[Music]

I went to my first AA meeting. Robin

took me there. I listened to the whole

thing and I haven't had a drink or a

drug since.

[Music]

Ellen Melin is a serious blues

guitarist. She's been around the scene

for years and she can play a mean

guitar. Tell me about your video. This

is the first video you've made. Yes. And

this is not this is not a vehicle. It's

tempting, you know, I was going to this

is not a fashion vehicle for me. It's

not to make me look good. It's not for I

thought if I have one chance to make a

video then I should make a video that

counts for the world you know and so

this is um it's called save the world

and it's about we use footage from China

men square and the Berlin Wall and

Winnie Mandela in South Africa and each

shot ends up on on children um the

future and uh so we filmed it at our

lady of lord school

down Every one of us

can so easy to think that it's not going

to get any

better. It's so easy to feel like

there's nothing that we can do.

When we started working on Looking for

Trouble, she felt renewed. She felt

invigorated. She was energized. She was

confident that she was no longer

drinking. And she was confident that she

still had something to say as an artist.

She you know she really had many many

gifts as a lyricist which I think people

talk a lot about her guitar playing

which was fantastic but uh she was also

a great songwriter.

[Applause]

[Music]

Ellen told me when she settled in Canada

that she just felt way more at home and

that she felt

um probably culturally more acceptable.

I think that she found a kind of a

freedom in Canada. Maybe in some ways

less of a conventional big-time music

business, but a kind of a freedom as an

artist and a lot of open space.

her confidence as a player when she

stepped on stage. That that is such an

important thing when you're especially

when you're stepping in to play with

someone. That person has to have the

confidence to pull you in to the gig.

And Ellen had that in

spades. You got

make I don't know what you got. You know

you make me feel just right.

[Music]

I think it I think it must be I think it

must be your leather.

She stole the show every night. Um, and

it was fine cuz we all looked up to her.

She was, you know, our icon that we were

we were taking care of in a way and she

was

precious. So, I really learned a lot

just watching her every night.

Um, watching the gracious way she gave

to the audience, she was just very

centered

and I just thought she just seemed

really sort of herself.

[Music]

Um, you're here doing some special

things cuz you're going to be at the

horseshoe. Yes. And the ultrasound? Yes.

I'll be at Horseshoe on Friday and

ultrasound is tonight. Okay. And um

there's a show early for if you're in

the industry and you're happen to be

watching, you didn't get your

invitation, come on down. Yeah. If you

like what you see, you might want to

sign the lady because you are looking

for a deal now, aren't you? Yeah. Okay.

All the material is ready. Is that one

of the songs? I was talking to her about

management because once you're as great

in music as she is, you really need the

management team to make you even greater

and to help you with those business

deals. your job is to write the songs,

perform the songs, and do the live

shows. Somebody else sometimes has got

to take care of that business thing. She

had no one taking care of the business

thing. And if there was any downfall of

her career, it would have been not

having the right people, specifically

the not the right women, help her out in

her career because that's when a lot of

women in the US and a few in Canada were

coming up in terms of management.

How much of my life has been spent

blaming the music industry? Male

domination of guitar realm, ineffectual

agents, smalltime record

companies. They're not doing what they

could.

But I did absolutely nothing on my own

behalf.

Come on out and tell

me. Don't go ask your mother or your

father. Oh yeah. Go ahead. Amanda

Marshall. Take

[Music]

one.

[Music]

People keep on

[Music]

learning. Keep on.

It was right on the eve of my 17th

birthday. Um, we wound up at Albert's

Hall, which was this venerated, now

defunct blues bar in downtown Toronto

where I grew up. Ellen walks to the

front of the room. She takes the guitar

off the stand. She's alone. She puts it

on, plugs it in. They kill the music on

the PA, and she launches into higher

[Music]

ground. I do not immediately recognize

the song at all. She's playing this

really complicated syncopated pattern on

the

guitar and uh and then she starts

singing.

Keep on

learning waring.

I'm like

I'm like straight up in my chair

because I'm like is everyone hearing

what I'm hearing? Like she has my

attention, you know? Everybody knows

that Stevie Wonder song, right?

Everybody knows. You can play that riff

[Music]

anywhere. Keep on learning.

[Music]

soldiers

keep on waring. What she did with that

song was that she took all the keyboard

parts and put them into slide. She put

them on her guitar and she played this

stuff so differently and so uniquely,

but you knew what it was and you felt

what it was and the power in that song.

I would say the Red Hot Chili Peppers

did the song. Eh, it's all right. Her

version. Yeah, that's the [ __ ] Ellen's

version was so urgent. It had an urgency

and it had a it had a a pos to it. You

know, her her interpretation of those

lyrics. She made it

[Music]

personal cuz it will not be will not be

will not be for long.

[Music]

Well, I think it was in late 1998 that a

woman from Sam the Record Man in Toronto

uh got in touch with me and just sent me

a message saying, "Have you heard this

Fat Boy Slim uh recording?" And it

really suspiciously sounds like Ellen

Mawne.

It was the intro of Ellen's song that

Fatboy Slim used, Higher Ground, of

course, written by Stevie Wonder. And

what Fatboy Slim did was that he sped it

up and wrote a song about that and used

that riff over and over again in his own

tune called A Song for Lindy, which was

used in the soundtrack of a film called

Senseless.

Uh, what's up What's that, man? Hey, got

some more hair for you. Hey, look, man.

I I can't do no with them naps. You're

back too soon. Come on, man.

I remember where I

was in 1997 when I first heard Fat Boy

Slim in general, which was at a music

festival in the UK. It really made an

impact with me as a musician that soon

there was going to be a

world where non-m musicians but

intelligent people recognize hidden gems

in the past and bring them into samples

and I had like a true awakening about

like the power of music in a very

different way cuz I obviously came from

the power of seeing live music. I think

the the fact that Fatboy Slim sampled

her music means it resonated with him.

It means something to him and it's a a

statement that he can add to his own

music to make his own thing stronger. I

think it's beautiful that Ellen had been

found by him, celebrated by him, and

that she got to make a penny from it.

Fat Boy Slim and his management, uh,

they were very quick to owning up on it.

Yes, we did use it. No problem. Let's

work it out. And uh we came to a

settlement and it provided uh money for

Ellen to uh to buy a van and she was she

was very

[Music]

happy. The funny part about to hold is

that it gets played in Japan. Um, some

DJs picked it up on an LP and took it

into the dance clubs and so they play it

in Japan and I've done two tours over

there with this DJ picked up on total

and when I play I they it's it's a

wonderful experience just to be able to

go back. I never thought I'd get back

over there.

[Music]

Don't

[Music]

Angel expect to ever be a bad

[Music]

DJ everything I own

I got to go

home.

[Music]

Fore musician.

[Music]

I

[Music]

That's

[Music]

I have been friends with Shin since the

early 90s. He was the leader and

producer of a collective called Mondo

Groso. He originally came here to work

with me to mix the Mondo Groso album and

we became fast friends.

One of the ideas he came up with was

having Alan Mcawin sing on a club kind

of a track.

He was just in love with her style of

singing and thought that a rootsy

Americana folky vibe would just be so

great on this broken beach track that he

had invented specifically for her.

[Music]

Now sometimes life can be such a wild

ride. I know

that my eyes

that handle. Don't let go. Go.

After a while, when the internet really

started to kick in, it really degraded

driving on the road for long distances

and coming back home with any money.

And so I had to decide to do something

else for a

living. The creative arts are difficult

for everybody. I think most musicians at

some point have some really scary times

where the phone's not ringing, gigs

aren't happening.

Her spirit and her music has the same

ferocity whether she's driving a bus or

doing dishes or whatever she's doing in

whatever

moment. She didn't take anybody's [ __ ]

And she knew who she was. She knew the

talent that she had and I think

that driving a bus for an all girls

school was a way that she could also

still continue to give back to females

and to

women. It's sad because she should have

been a lot bigger than what she

was. Do I wish that she had

had, you know, the time to spend more

time making music? Of course I do,

because she was amazing at it. And who

wouldn't?

[Music]

I think Ellen would have a huge impact

on younger people if they see her

because I think younger people are

really looking for answers and they need

that uh the people that have walked in

those paths before them to show them the

way.

[Music]

a true artist who doesn't give up, who

keeps pushing, who keeps playing their

music, even if it's in their living

room, but they keep

going, they're going to be okay. And I

think now is the time to bring her out

and to show the world that, hey, look at

what this woman was doing and she's

still relevant.

Everybody is the one to save the

world. Everybody's got to

[Music]

try. Everybody's got a different song to

sing.

[Music]

Everybody's got a The last time I spoke

with Ellen, she only had a few weeks to

live. She said not to worry, that she

could still sing and play her guitar.

It's so easy to feel there's

[Music]

nothing. But it really is true that all

of us, we can do better.

And there's hope in the hearts of people

like me, like

you. Everybody's got the love to bring a

change. Just a little every day.

I have so grateful. I've learned so much

from all the people I know and all the

people I've met and and just look at all

the people I ended up playing music with

and influenced by.

And I love

everybody. And thank you everybody. I

learned so much from all of

you. It's been a great life.

[Music]

Ellen's last wish was that I spread her

ashes in places most meaningful to

[Music]

her. The news of her cancer made me

super sad.

Um, of course to lose her is is one

thing, but to have this documentary

being in the works where finally she's

getting props in a big way after all

these years and all of the recordings

that she had done.

It's just sad,

unfair.

[Music]

cast a spell on the stor.

We can spread the word to our friends

and daughters and and this film will

speak for her. And it's just sad that we

won't be able to, you know, hug her,

tell her she is respected and

appreciated.

[Music]

name they bring me

down in the waterground.

The only thing that would really be a

travesty is if you know Ellen and her

incredible

contribution was lost to history.

[Music]

this film

emphasizing her

impact on the world in the music world

just in general the the impact that she

had on the people that she loved and the

people who loved her.

That's a beautiful way to go and I'm

happy for that.

Lay down, my brother. Lay down your head

and rest.

Lay your head down.

I love you, but Jesus loves you. And I

good night. Good night. Good

night. You good night. Good night. Good

night.

Lay down, my sister. Lay down your head

and rest. Lay your head down if I'm

breast.

I love you, but Jesus loves you the

best. And I good night. Good night. Good

night. You good night. Good night. Good

night

for the ark. The wonderful boat. Good

night. Good night. She building on the

land getting water to flow. Good night.

Good night. Good night.

Now before the beast at the end of the

world. Good night. Good night. And eat

all the children that would not be good.

Good night. Good night. Good

night. Lay down, my brother. Lay down

your head and rest. Lay your head down.

I love you. But Jesus loved you the

best. And I beat you. Good night. Good

night. Good

night. Beat you. Good night. Good night.

Good night.