Original subtitles

When you think of Salt Lake City, it's Jen Shah. I'm sorry, it's the Jen Shah

show. She was giving us the money. She was giving us the look.

Jen Shah's entire story is wild.

She gets the phone call.

It's someone telling her that she needs to leave, and you can just tell in Jen's

eyes, holy...

Like, I got to get out of here.

Real Housewives of Salt Lake City cast members Jen Shah and Stuart Smith now

face federal fraud charges.

It's all playing out live. Like, we're breaking news live.

Much like Jen Shah at a party, I don't know what we're going to get, but I do

know that I'm going to watch.

We were all scratching our heads thinking, how does she make her money?

this money coming from?

She called herself the Wizard of Oz, behind the curtain.

I don't think she's...

The wizard.

She's the witch of the west.

Authorities claim Shaw sold lists of potential victims' information for them

be repeatedly scammed.

I certainly would not continue shooting the show.

Oh, the feds are watching every bit of this and taking notes.

Jen entered a plea of not guilty, and she maintains her innocence.

We constantly look at the lavish lifestyle that these fraudsters are

If convicted, she's not looking at one year. She's looking at a decade.

I think what's being alleged is this sort of preying on the American dream.

What fan wouldn't want to watch a show that you take a regular person, give

an inspirational life, put them on a pedestal, then watch them

implode?

unravel, and be able to judge them the whole way down.

Okay, another exciting day. Tonight is the premiere of Real Housewives of Salt

Lake City, the newest of the franchise on Bravo.

We've been waiting months and months for this.

So there hadn't been a new franchise in a while, and then we had a big premiere

in a place where no one thought we would ever have Real Housewives.

So here's this new, really vibrant show for

us to get excited about.

The Housewives franchise seems to love the unpredictable rich woman. And if you

can be a little bit unhinged, but also fling a Chanel bag around too, then sign

me up.

The haircut.

So BravoCon happened in 2019. It was a three -day event in

New York City.

And it was a madhouse of Bravo -lebrities.

BravoCon was the first ever fan convention for everything Bravo and

everything Housewives.

And fans really get whipped up into a frenzy.

At BravoCon, Andy Cohen announced the newest city that was going to be the new

franchise. Salt Lake City, Utah.

And I was ready for him to go, oh, no, just joking. But then he was serious.

Salt Lake City, it was just the weirdest city to choose.

It looked like it was going to be a different spin and more authentic

than some of the other shows.

My favorite thing about Salt Lake City is just...

All six women that were on there, there was something different about each and

every one of them, from religion to ethnicity to background.

This was the first diverse cast that I've seen them introduce from the

beginning. You have the Mormon royalty who now likes to party and be a little

promiscuous. You had Jewish housewives who would become Mormons. But now runs a

tequila company.

And then you have the woman who is...

Married to her grandmother's second husband.

Yes, her grandpa. You can't make this up. And I thought that those things were

going to make for really good reality TV. And then Jen Shah said, hold my

I want it to be Shah -mazing.

I want it to be shabulous.

She's a self -proclaimed diva. Jen Shah, the drama, you're bringing it. We are

bringing it. And I'm very passionate. I mean, I'm Polynesian, right? Anybody

that knows Polynesians.

Tongans, we're very passionate.

She can find drama where the rest of us only see comedy. Her persona is wildly

over the top.

There's just a switch with Jen Shah. Like, one second she'll be fine, and

another, she goes ballistic.

She just was like the queen of the pop -off.

There's that old saying that someone brought a knife to a gunfight. It seems

like Jen Shah always brought a nuclear missile to a gunfight. Like, it was

always just so much more of a crazy reaction than the situation really

Her feud with Mary Cosby on season one is everything.

When she got into a fight with Mary over Mary allegedly saying

that somebody smelled like hospital.

I didn't know that that was an insult, first of all. This is where we are in

these franchises, is that one small dispute began World War I.

The smells like hospital begin World War Gen.

We called it Odor Gate. It was just totally strange.

And it became the fight that lasted the entirety of the season. The entirety of

the season.

What makes for a great housewife is someone that has their loyal fans.

but also people that despise them.

And Jen Shah checks every box.

In her casting tape, as we see the private jet in the background, she says

she spends about $50 ,000 a month. There are like 20 pieces of luggage when we

travel, and like maybe 17 are mine.

We don't really see what Jen is doing at her job.

We're more focused on her throwing these crazy parties. I remember hearing that

she spent $80 ,000 on a party.

What's the most you've ever spent on a party at the chalet?

Probably $82 ,000.

$80 ,000.

Do I believe it? Yeah, for sure.

Paper money, you're so funny.

I met Jen Shaw in March 2020.

My name is Koa Johnson, and I'm a fashion designer.

I was in charge of styling her, creating these custom gown pieces.

My job really was to create an image for her. The most expensive dress that I

designed for her and made for her was her info dress. The feathers alone were

about $2 ,500.

So we're talking at least a $10 ,000 to $12 ,000 gown.

One of the criteria when you're casting for a Housewives franchise is you have

to have an inspirational lifestyle.

They have a beautiful house to shoot in, fancy cars and diamonds.

Anything that would make you want to be that person or live that life.

I've loved jewelry ever since I was a little girl. I love emeralds because

they're good luck and green. I mean, green reminds me of money.

Jen Shaw does this interview with Marie Claire about her love of jewelry.

Diamonds and jewelry.

The emeralds are 8 .85 carats. It makes me feel like the

Wizard of Oz, basically.

Okay? Green.

We love it.

Images of everything to her, how she looks, how people see her, how she sees

herself. Money, money, money, let my world go around.

On the show, Jen Shah has this group of people called the Shah Squad.

that are doing everything for Jen Shah.

Glam, hair, makeup, stylist, and several assistants.

One of which is Stuart Smith.

There's just something off about Stu.

He just looked a little too grown to be her assistant.

And I didn't know why he was there. Holding her bag at the Botox Medi Spa.

Like, why are you there, Stu?

Why?

I feed you while you work. While you make me money, I feed you. What does

do?

I believe he's worked for Jen for at least 12 years. So he was right down the

hall from my studio office. He would do computer work on the phone all the time.

It's on Michelle Collins' SiriusXM radio show. She says she can count on him

100%. He does it all.

Has everybody seen the assistant? It's like, I'm not doing that for you.

Oh, no, they do it. They do everything. Yeah, especially Stuart. Stuart would

literally do anything.

Stuart is all in.

It's just insane to know that it takes a squad to live like Jen Shah, when in

reality, we're just getting behind the curtain of what really does take to live

like Jen Shah.

On Heather Gay's podcast, Heather asked, what did Jen Shah want to do for a

living? What did you think you wanted to be, Heather asked. You would think if

you were her, if I wanted to get attention and if I wanted to be known,

would I go? When I was a little girl, I thought I was going to be like on the

news. Oh, like a newscaster? I wanted to be a newscaster. And then my dreams

were shattered because I had to put my husband through law school.

So that went away. Bastard.

We see it on her social media. Jen and her husband, Sharif, look like they've

built this great life with their family.

Jen and Sharif are the perfect match.

They're able to play hard and work hard together.

I'm Lehua Vincent.

I'm Jen's aunt.

I describe her as the mom every kid wants. Fun, fun mom. You know, working

the late hours because she's so committed to provide a great life for

But the question of where the money comes from is always there lurking in

background.

I think in the beginning, the fans believed she was making a lot of money

that lifestyle, but then over time, something was just not adding up.

People are wondering, like, how'd you get so rich?

I've listened to several interviews of Jen Shaw trying to describe what she

does. What do you actually do?

I mean, I run a lot of different companies and businesses.

Like, you're just saying a lot of words. I mean, you say the word algorithm a

lot. When you're shopping online or on the Internet, we have the algorithm

behind... Why you're getting served that ad. Like, it's so confusing.

Shaw confusing.

We've never heard Jen Shaw give a straight answer when asked how she made

money to support the lifestyle she was living.

Are there things that she's hiding? And we were about to find out a lot more

about what was going on in her life outside the show.

When the women sign on to become real hot swords, they always tell them, if

have any secrets, they're going to come out.

She was definitely very secretive on a lot of things.

The items that you see, like the fur coats, they're not owned by her. Any of

large jewelry that you see on her, those are leased and borrowed as well.

Did Jen Shaw drive around in a Porsche?

Yes. Does she drive in a Porsche now? No.

Why?

Well, it wasn't her Porsche.

That's not her car. There seems to be a discrepancy with Jen Shaw and her

lifestyle and the amount of money that her and Coach Shaw could possibly be

making.

What's up, Howard?

We've got what we are told is a two -income family.

Sharif is a highly successful coach at the University of Utah.

As an assistant coach, he could make a nice, you know, reasonable six -figure

salary. But $50 ,000 a month, you don't get that from that salary.

Sharif and Jen have been together for, you know, more than two decades at this

point. I feel like he probably should have asked a question like, how can we

afford to do this, honey?

As we saw on the show, she hid a full party from him. It seemed like maybe she

had a pattern that she would hide things from him.

I mean, we found out that he at one point called a divorce lawyer.

He obviously backed away from that. Marriages have secrets. Marriages have

and deceit. Is Jinshaw being open or is her theatrics and her struggles to

distract everyone from really the questions they really have?

Jinshaw comes off on the show as a little bit unhinged.

Every scene she's like screaming and in real life there are moments where she's

always screaming.

She's actually worse off screen.

Basically,

the internet went into hysteria when a video seemed to drop on Instagram of Jen

Shah screaming at her employees.

She did say in a couple of her interviews that she's the Wizard of Oz,

behind the curtain.

I don't think she's the wizard. I think she's the Wicked Witch of the West.

This is right before she's about to film her first reunion show, which I can

understand how stressful that might be.

She was getting upset in that video because she came to the realization that

she's not prepared.

She threw a chili ball.

at me and then stormed out of frame like walked off of the secret videotape we

do not know who recorded this because during those times there were a lot of

people other employees my interns her friends her colleagues so it could have

been really anybody when the video was leaked it showed jen to be a bully and

be really somebody who was totally unhinged in real life

I was a bit surprised to hear the tapes, not only how harsh Jen was being, but

how long these tirades were going on. It was minutes and minutes and minutes.

There were a few of them that made the rounds on social media.

At

that

point, I was so exhausted.

Like, I was not. sleeping yeah it's just um in

polynesian culture we argue we scream at each other but it comes from a loving

place when i got yelled at jen there was nothing for me to i feel like really

learn it was not going to get better at a certain point like no matter what i

did i think that cross

a line and a boundary for me i decided to just get a one -way ticket to hawaii

and i left so the last paid compensation i got from her was in

september 2020 but i worked for her all the way up to january as far as my other

co -workers they made it known to me that they were not being compensated as

well he took my kindness

and repaid me by making it look like I mistreated him, which was not the case

all.

Her position was that Koa had not delivered on some of the dress work that

had provided him a lot of resources to get, and she just lost it, finding that

out.

What you see on The Real Housewives is so twisted at times as far as

what they'd like you to think or believe.

their character of Jen Shah to be.

But the real Jen Shah, the person that I know, she has dealt with adversity

every single day of her life and through it all achieved.

She's accomplished many things in school from a very young age.

Jen and I were classmates.

My kids and I were sitting there watching in our living room, and I was

oh, my God, that's Jen Louis from high school.

There was maybe four or five other people of color that were in the high

The Mormons were a big thing in this tight -knit community.

It wasn't an easy place to be.

Jen was introduced to a level of racism.

I remember her on one afternoon coming home from school. I noticed that her

was just bright, had a bright, bright, bright red tint to it.

And she said, I scrubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed and it won't come off.

And I said, we're talking about what won't come off. And she said, the kids

school are calling me dirty and I'm trying to scrub it off. It won't come

They saw her as different enough to ridicule her and make her feel different

feel less than.

Fortunately, through all of the adversity, we're here to support her.

Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star Jennifer Shaw under arrest.

I heard of Jennifer Ra the morning of March 30th.

And it's everywhere that Jen Shah was arrested. Jen Shah and her partner

Smith arrested.

It was not something anyone could have imagined.

The whole time she was filming the show, law enforcement was investigating her.

OMG, they're filming the season right now.

She's meeting up with her friends. They're about to go on a cast trip, and

gets a phone call.

It's someone telling her that she needs to leave, and you can just tell in Jen's

eyes. She looks into the camera.

She knows she's cornered. Holy, like, I got to get out of here. It was crazy. It

had all the tension.

It had all the intrigue, the drama.

We know when they ask for a microphone ripoff that something's going on, some

time elapses.

We're looking for Jen Shaw.

When they blur the policeman's face out, isn't this real life at that point?

In any of our operations, we don't look for specific timing to do arrests.

In the case of Jen Shaw, she had a television crew that was following her

regular basis, right? So it was not planned in any way.

What are you guys doing in there? Our investigators, our special agents,

to do our jobs. And I'm happy to say they did it without incident, and she

taken into custody.

Being accused of running a nationwide telemarketing fraud scheme.

He was charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and then conspiracy to

commit money laundering. One holds the penalty of maximum sentence of 30 years

in prison and the other holds the maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

Very serious. Very serious.

Stewart was arrested the same day.

Apparently he was at his home in Lehigh when all this was happening.

They each entered pleas of not guilty and before you knew it...

On her own Instagram, there was the free Jen Shah hashtag promulgated by Jen

Shah.

The charges stem from an investigation that's been going on for years.

It started with a case in New York.

That eventually leads investigators to Jen Shah.

In January 2016, we started Operation Double Down based on an arrest

made by the NYPD for narcotic smuggling. The individual who was supplying the

narcotics was also involved in a huge telemarketing fraud.

The individual, Arash Katachi, and his co -defendants were indicted in 2017.

for operating telemarketing companies that sold non -existent products and

services from sales floors in New Jersey and New York.

This trial was called the United States v.

Hitachi. The allegations in this case were essentially a group of

were calling up people and making misrepresentations in order to get their

money. Here's how we understand what a typical scam is like. It's a big web of

overlapping telemarketing companies.

that oftentimes work together to scam victims.

It all might start, innocently enough, a potential victim. They might have

clicked on an ad on Facebook.

It seems like the triggering words for a typical ad would be work from home. The

first thing you usually buy, under $100.

You don't realize that your contact information is now fit into a list.

And right away, the telemarketers have your name, they have your contact

information, they even have your credit card information.

They would pass what we call lead lists from one telemarketing floor to another.

And these telemarketing companies offer all sorts of other services. They claim

to help you build a website, to boost your social media profile, to market

yourself. They'll offer coaching services. You're paying for all of this,

the calls never stop.

They keep coming and coming, but they're just there to prime you for the next

sale of something that doesn't exist.

Did you agree to invest in this opportunity?

Yes, I did.

I think the initial was $30 ,000.

One business that required I send them $8 ,000.

And did you do that?

Yes.

And that's what really started me thinking that I'm...

Way in too deep.

These leads were of a particular group of people. And in this case, the

government was alleging that it was the elderly.

I didn't own a computer at that time.

Were you comfortable using computers?

No. Were you comfortable using the Internet at that time? No.

If you're calling up somebody who maybe is not particularly Internet savvy or

business savvy, that's kind of a problem.

In one recording, the telemarketers are heard.

talking to one another about charging Charlene thousands of dollars without

knowing.

I thought I could handle it myself, but

of course I couldn't.

It was overwhelming.

To your knowledge, have you gotten any of the money you spent back?

No.

Arash Katachi and his co -defendants were sentenced to prison in 2019.

But the investigation was not over. The feds found evidence that led them to

more shady telemarketing floors, this time out west, in Arizona, in Nevada,

in Utah. And that is where they allege Jen Shah came in.

We constantly look at the lavish lifestyle that these fraudsters are

it hurts. It really does hurt because when you talk to a victim and you see

everything they've worked for completely vanished, it's disturbing and it's

obviously why we do this job and we want to make sure it stops.

So we just continued on with our investigation and we were able to

other telemarketing floors in Nevada and...

Utah and Arizona that were doing the same thing that they were doing here in

Jersey. Except, to our surprise, these people have been doing this for over 10

years.

The stories you hear are shocking and heartbreaking because they exploit

not the greed of people, but the good of people.

The typical mark for a work -at -home scam is someone unemployed, on

they've retired early, they're on a pension. These are the targets of those

businesses.

In 1980, we moved to the family farm. At that time, we had two kids, third one

on the way, and the farm was good.

Around 2011... Things got rough.

The economy was bad. The bank decided that they would allow my husband to

continue to farm for another year to see if he could turn it around, and he

couldn't.

So at that point, I had some sewing skills, and so my mother had developed

of a snuggle -type blanket, and so I decided that maybe that was something

I could market online.

When it's cool, if you want to take a kid out in the stroller, they stay

up and nice and cozy and warm.

I love to sew, so I can make some money in the process.

They see a sharp ad that says, hey, you can make money doing this. It's only

$99. I purchased a program, and it was like $97 to

market on social media and on eBay.

Penny clicked an ad for a work -at -home business, and we can assume her name

wound up on a lead list.

And that meant it was open season on her because she was seen as being

susceptible to salespeople getting her to buy more stuff.

So that lead is then sold to a company that's going to hit this person up with

all sorts of other services, even though the company that they're starting has

really no chance of making any money.

Wolf of Wall Street is very similar to a lot of sales floors.

The only problem you're going to have is that you didn't buy more.

There are salespeople, you know, that are racking up tens of thousands of

dollars a week. It's a very crazy environment.

I started getting calls from all different companies.

The first one was a company called e -commerce.

Let's help you make your dream a reality.

We just got to figure out how much we can put on your credit card first.

What started out to be a $97 thing turned in to be $9 ,000.

But they said that I would be making money like $1 ,000 a week in the first

weeks. And so I thought, well, wow, you know, it wouldn't take very long to get

your money back, you know, return on investment, if that was actually the

It wasn't the case.

E -commerce, the first company to contact Penny, was owned by a man named

Handren. And five years later, Handren would be arrested and eventually named

a co -defendant in the case against Jen Shah.

These alleged scams are selling you coaching services that tell you just

harder at this and buy more things. It's like a psychological manipulation.

These people, you've got to understand, are really smooth.

They know how to manipulate you.

The costs go up and up and up. And once you're in water up to your ankles, they

can get you in water up to your knee, up to your waist, and finally over your

head. I started this process in March, and by the end of September, I had spent

over $29 ,000.

So it got to the point where we couldn't keep up with the monthly payments.

So we ended up having to refinance our home and pay off our credit card debt.

When I realized that I'd been had, I was devastated.

I was so ashamed because I thought I was a smarter person than that.

The folks that are behind this are pros at what they do. It is disgusting, and

what we'd like to tell any victim is it's not your fault. Please come forward

because we need your help to make sure this doesn't happen to more people.

I sold zero.

through any of the marketing techniques that they presented.

I've got boxes of snuggle blankets. I give them away as gifts, and they make

really good gifts for new moms.

I like to buy people things. That's how I show love. I'm going to give you this

snake ring because you could shed your skin and be a better person.

What's the message?

I'm still a snake.

While investigators were gathering evidence from victims and learning a

more about Jen Shaw's work history, Dana Wilkie, who has a podcast, was doing

her own research.

When the show Real Housewives of Salt Lake City aired, I found that Jen Shaw

a LinkedIn page.

From 2006 to present, she was director of business development for Prosper,

I also found a picture of Jen Shaw from that period of time, and she looks like

a corporate executive.

She does not look anything like what we see today on the Real Housewives of Salt

Lake City.

It's like a different person.

While Jen Shaw was working at Prosper, the company made national news. In 2007,

one of its sales floor employees... sued the company for waterboarding him. He

was at a company event as a, like, motivational exercise instead of

human pyramid or a truck fall.

He was waterboarded, and the individual waterboarding him allegedly was saying,

see how he's struggling to breathe? Like, that's how hard you should be

to make your sale.

I shouldn't laugh.

It's terrible.

But that was the...

Prosper's own unique work culture is alleged in that lawsuit.

Prosper eventually settled with the employee for an undisclosed amount.

When I found Jen Shah's Prosper Inc. LinkedIn, I posted it on my Instagram.

She immediately deleted her page.

FTC investigators learned that Jen Shah left Prosper in 2011 and went to work at

another telemarketing company called Thrive.

Jen's worked so hard in her career.

I remember she was so excited she made it. She's one of the VPs.

And I remember her sharing with me how they have a regular meeting that they

attend as VPs.

And she had found out she wasn't invited. That was her turning point,

decided she would start her own business, she would start her own

would do her own thing.

The FTC deposed Jen Shah in 2015 about her work at Thrive. Two years later,

fined Thrive $27 million for deceptive sales practices.

We believe $27 million should have set an alarm bell off in Jen Shah's head

this is probably a business she shouldn't continue doing.

What the Southern District is hoping to prove is that Jen Shah and Stuart Smith

went from just selling these leads.

to actually trying to sell non -existent services to the marks that they took

advantage of. And so it's that turn that allegedly places her in greater legal

jeopardy. The government alleges Jen and Stuart started messaging through

encrypted applications so you couldn't read their text messages.

and created cell companies in Kosovo and kept doing it for at least through

March 2021 when she was eventually arrested.

I don't think we do enough to make our public aware about the different types

of schemes and frauds that are out there right now, especially during COVID when

people are home and they're on their computers and, you know, they're

answering the phones.

These perpetrators know that this is the prime time.

And then a 67 -year -old preschool teacher in Atlanta was trying to start

online health and beauty business.

It was August 2020, and I wasn't working because there wasn't any jobs coming

up. No teaching, no subbing, no anything.

So I've always had this thought of doing a home -based business.

I said, okay, I'll hire somebody to help me build a website, build it the right

way, the correct way.

Marie clicked on an ad for home -based businesses and was soon inundated with

calls from telemarketing companies.

So from the beginning, the companies wanted to know about my finances. They

asked about credit card limits, 401Ks. They asked about everything.

Marie spends more and more and more money in pursuit of this innocent idea

had to start a business from home.

Among the sales floor that besiege Marie Walker is a company called Mastery Pro,

which allegedly is a shell company connected to Jen Shah.

Mastery Pro allegedly had assets of $5 million.

From Mastery Pro, I did purchase a social media package, but I would

need to send in $1 ,000 from my bank to their bank, that mountain bank in Utah,

for a social media boost.

In January 2021, I started having a lot of problems with the website. I was

trying to reach the marketing, the coaching, the website builders, and I

couldn't reach anybody. There was no website, nothing.

My head was really spinning there. I said, all this is just a scam.

I contacted all my credit card companies, my banks. I contacted the

department, made reports. I contacted the FTC.

I put in a total of about $18 ,000. I did get back some on my

credit card, about $8 ,000, but the rest is lost.

If I can talk to the people that scam me, I would say, would you do this to

mother, to your sister?

And why? Why would you do this?

And why would you keep doing it?

Tonight, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City reality show star facing serious

allegations. Jen Shah and Stuart Smith now face federal fraud charges.

Ms. Shah, we're with KSL TV. Do you have a comment on the charges at all?

Do you have a message for your family, your kids?

He's been charged with wire fraud and money laundering.

Seeing members of law enforcement approach Jen's home and place her

teenage son.

her nephew, her nephew's wife, and their young son at gunpoint and treat

them, these purely innocent people, as if they were criminals.

It's very traumatizing.

He had

to put $250 ,000 cash

towards... The bond guarantee that she would show up in court.

What was remarkable was she had no assets. She had to put real cash instead

real property because she didn't have a house. They were renting, which I

thought was an interesting anomaly where Stuart Smith just put up a house.

When I first heard about Jen's arrest, it was a madhouse on social media. Every

Bravo account you could think of, every news outlet was talking about Jen Shaw.

To see Jen walk out of a courthouse and read stories about her allegedly being

in a criminal activity, that's not a Jen that I know or knew.

The only thing I'm guilty of is being Shaw -mazing.

Jen Shaw continues to be in the spotlight.

Are you Jen Shaw?

Oh, my God, Jen!

even when she's not filming the real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

In October 2021, she was paid to appear at an event at the

Hustler Club, a strip club in New York, while she has criminal charges pending

against her. I do know that the Housewives make a lot of money doing

appearances, and I'm sure a porn star's lap dance party can put a lot of money

towards your legal funds.

However, it doesn't seem to be the best move for her while she's accused of what

are very serious crimes.

With Katniff, everything that you see her do, you go, that's Jen Shah.

Jen Shah does Jen Shah better than anybody.

Jen going to trial is going to be really, really dramatic television for

which their fan base, they will eat it up alive.

There's plenty of speculation about what a defense might be, though Jen and her

attorneys certainly aren't talking about their strategy.

Generally, I believe her defenses are that she's not the one that is selling

these other services. She's just providing leads, and that she shouldn't

criminally liable. If you're just a lead generator, you're the most removed from

anything that would be illegal or fraudulent or unethical. I just provide

with numbers. You dial them, and I hope that you're being forthright and honest

with these people.

Jen Shah is going to say no.

I was good at getting leads.

And what they did with the leads is their problem. She could say, I didn't

that they were making promises when they were on the phone. As far as I knew,

they were all following the rules. So why should I be in trouble?

It's business. Yes, as usual. I would defend her by saying the only witnesses

this case are all going to be people that have admitted they're con artists

are so good at lying that they duped.

Hundreds of people for millions of dollars on a monthly basis. And the only

reason why they're sort of talking is because if they cooperate, the

will file a motion to lower their sentence. And why would you trust them?

client's presumed innocent.

I think whenever you have somebody who's famous who's on trial, it complicates

the dynamics of a trial.

Because Jen Shaw is a celebrity, the government could send a warning signal

others that if Jen Shaw can go down for this, you can go down for this too if

you're engaged in the same alleged behavior.

When you're a celebrity or a quasi -celebrity, you always have a defense as

am I targeted here? I can see the prosecutors arguing this person has

remorse.

flaunting massive amounts of wealth.

This was supposed to be the exercise room, and I turned it into a closet.

You might not want to brag about that in the middle of a criminal investigation.

The U .S. Attorney's Office is no joke. Do we need to add Kim Kardashian to our

legal team? I just cannot believe that this is the world we live in where Kim

Kardashian is possibly Jen Shah's saving grace.

Now that is a spinoff I need to watch.

I think she's not thinking clearly. Why she's facing charges she's filming makes

no sense.

I can't predict whether or not she's guilty or innocent, but I can say that

seems the government is very prepared to make their case.

The Southern District of New York is...

very good at what they do. They have a very high percentage win rate at trial.

The words not guilty by a jury is very rare.

Not knowing that something is illegal is not a defense.

You have to actually lack knowledge of what's going on. As a result of

the risks that are involved, it's a very strong incentive for people to take a

plea or to cooperate.

Jen Shah's co -defendant, Stuart Smith, did exactly that.

Eight months after the arrest, he pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy

obstruction, admitting that he hid money and defrauded elderly people. And he

didn't say who he conspired with, but everybody knows his association with Jen

Shah. Together, the charges to which he pleaded guilty carry a maximum of 70

years in prison. He's sentenced in March of 2022.

She's going to have a hard time attacking his credibility because they

of buddies until the arrest.

I appreciate you sticking with me through the bad times, the good times.

know that you'll always be there, and I'll always be here for you.

Stuart is more than a business partner.

He is very loyal.

Stuart knows where the bodies are buried, and I think that he testifies

going to be a devastating witness for her.

I think it's an uphill battle for the people who've been scammed. I think

chances of being whole once again are minimal, regardless of what the verdict

is. When you talk to a victim and you see everything they've worked for, and

then you see where these fraudsters are living the best lives they can live and

not worrying about money in any kind of way, they don't have a problem sleeping

at night. I have a problem sleeping at night. Oh my gosh, this one right here.

We are going to try our best to get as much of their money back as possible.

Getting restitution for the victims is always our number one priority.

I lost around a little over $29 ,000, but I was able to get

about $16 ,000 of it back by filing fraud complaints with the credit card,

the attorney general's office, and with the FTC.

The money that we see and will continue to recover is not even a fraction of

what the victims have lost, unfortunately, because these people live

lifestyles and able to hide their money overseas.

There's a lot of countries that don't recognize money laundering as a crime,

we're not able to seize that money.

These are serious charges because when you have a lot of victims and a lot of

money, the sentencing guidelines go up.

Unfortunately for Ms. Shaw, if convicted, it's going to be a high

mean, she's not looking at one year.

She's looking at a decade.

How do you like in New York?

If Jan Shaw has been proven to scam people.

or defraud people, then she needs to be punished.

I think that we all need to wait and see how it lands and see whether or not

she's guilty.

This is the most difficult time for our entire family.

The Jen Shah that I know is a woman who has come from a culture

that is deeply rooted in honesty, loyalty, and hard work.

There's just no way that Jen...

has the ability to be harmful or hurtful or disrespectful.

We're innocent until proven guilty, and she should be treated as such. And I

believe her to be nothing but innocent.

Fame really is the ultimate high.

And I think that Jen may be someone who's really great for reality TV. You

maybe she didn't do it.

We love to watch it, but should Jen Shaw be able to make money by continuing to

be on the show?

For us as fans, for them as a network, it's all very gray, and I wish I had an

easy answer.

But until we have that answer, I'm just going to keep watching Housewives.

That's the thing that we have to keep in mind when we watch these shows. We're

actually talking about real people who are the victim, and it's not fair.

She is not afraid of the limelight. If the camera is pointed at her, even if

it's unflattering.

Jen Shah doesn't seem to mind. Will that have something to do with how she deals

with this latest chapter?

I guess we'll have to see.

I watched a lot of Dancing with the Stars. Nobody puts Jen Shah in a corner,

okay?