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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,437 --> 00:00:04,481 In the criminal justice system, 2 00:00:04,482 --> 00:00:08,008 the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. 3 00:00:08,312 --> 00:00:10,227 The police, who investigate crime, 4 00:00:10,619 --> 00:00:13,361 and the Crown Prosecutors, who prosecute the offenders. 5 00:00:13,622 --> 00:00:15,015 These are their stories. 6 00:00:17,582 --> 00:00:19,497 - It's an oxymoron. - No, it's not. 7 00:00:19,889 --> 00:00:23,197 Matty, what are you talking about? 8 00:00:23,545 --> 00:00:26,329 Sausages are made from meat, not soya. 9 00:00:26,330 --> 00:00:28,201 And they certainly ain't made from vegetables. 10 00:00:28,202 --> 00:00:30,725 Why should veggies be denied the pleasure of a sausage roll? 11 00:00:30,726 --> 00:00:32,641 And let's face it, Ron, it is half the fat. 12 00:00:32,989 --> 00:00:34,598 And half the taste, I'll have you know 13 00:00:34,599 --> 00:00:36,297 I'm at the peak of my fitness. 14 00:00:36,775 --> 00:00:39,169 Do not let this cuddly exterior fool you, son. 15 00:00:44,522 --> 00:00:45,871 Blimey! Who died? 16 00:00:46,872 --> 00:00:49,310 My office... now. 17 00:01:13,029 --> 00:01:13,899 He's in there. 18 00:01:15,901 --> 00:01:16,946 How could anyone? 19 00:01:46,758 --> 00:01:49,109 He's five, maybe six. 20 00:01:50,545 --> 00:01:52,547 Looks like he's only been dead a few hours. 21 00:01:54,940 --> 00:01:56,420 Contusions round the... 22 00:02:01,686 --> 00:02:04,080 Are you okay, Joy? Take your time, love. 23 00:02:06,648 --> 00:02:07,953 Contusions round the neck. 24 00:02:09,694 --> 00:02:11,174 Petechiae round the eyes. 25 00:02:11,914 --> 00:02:13,829 A bang to the back of the head. 26 00:02:14,786 --> 00:02:19,051 There's curvilinear abrasions here and here, 27 00:02:19,443 --> 00:02:21,053 suggesting strangulation. 28 00:02:22,098 --> 00:02:23,099 And there's this. 29 00:02:24,274 --> 00:02:26,624 Caused by something sharp and pointed, 30 00:02:27,669 --> 00:02:29,584 bigger than a pin or a needle, though. 31 00:02:30,454 --> 00:02:31,934 Looks like a letter R. 32 00:02:35,416 --> 00:02:36,808 What's that on his lips? 33 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,941 There was a popping noise when I moved him 34 00:02:39,942 --> 00:02:41,248 to examine the head wound. 35 00:02:42,336 --> 00:02:43,554 This was on the floor. 36 00:02:45,121 --> 00:02:48,255 Someone's poured the whole lot into his mouth. 37 00:02:48,951 --> 00:02:50,213 Crackle Candy. 38 00:02:53,260 --> 00:02:55,000 Just when you think you've seen it all. 39 00:03:45,181 --> 00:03:46,661 How can we have a body when a kid hasn't even been missed? 40 00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:48,750 'Cause the parents probably did it. 41 00:03:49,054 --> 00:03:52,100 Maybe they're at work. I mean, it's half term. 42 00:03:52,101 --> 00:03:55,103 So... I reckon even the parents around here with jobs 43 00:03:55,104 --> 00:03:57,889 - couldn't afford a child-minder. - They haven't even noticed he's missing. 44 00:04:05,114 --> 00:04:06,898 Keep them as far away as possible. 45 00:04:08,378 --> 00:04:11,816 There's CCTV all over this estate. They must have caught something. 46 00:04:12,164 --> 00:04:13,688 Provided you can find one that works. 47 00:04:14,558 --> 00:04:16,952 I'll get Intel onto it. You talk to the kids. 48 00:04:17,257 --> 00:04:19,041 See if any of their mates have gone AWOL. 49 00:04:20,695 --> 00:04:23,437 Darren's in the park doing it with Shania Chapman. 50 00:04:23,698 --> 00:04:25,526 - How old is Darren? - Eleven. 51 00:04:26,396 --> 00:04:28,092 Eleven. 52 00:04:28,093 --> 00:04:30,051 Whatever happened to a game of conkers? 53 00:04:30,052 --> 00:04:31,358 What's conkers? 54 00:04:31,749 --> 00:04:34,578 Conor. Conor. 55 00:04:36,363 --> 00:04:37,364 Conor. 56 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,497 What's happening there? You alright, son? What's up? 57 00:04:40,758 --> 00:04:43,848 My brother, Conor, was supposed to meet me over the shop hours ago. 58 00:04:44,632 --> 00:04:46,373 - How old is your brother? - Six. 59 00:04:47,374 --> 00:04:49,593 - When did you last see him? - This morning. 60 00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:53,770 I saw him. He was playing over there. 61 00:04:53,771 --> 00:04:55,817 And then this smelly man come and took him. 62 00:05:01,692 --> 00:05:02,693 Baseball cap, 63 00:05:03,215 --> 00:05:04,739 with like a beard. 64 00:05:06,001 --> 00:05:08,482 And wearing a leather jacket. That's what you said, babe. 65 00:05:09,396 --> 00:05:11,048 And you saw him with Conor? 66 00:05:12,268 --> 00:05:13,661 He smelled like petrol. 67 00:05:14,401 --> 00:05:15,489 - Right. - Devlin. 68 00:05:17,012 --> 00:05:17,839 I mean, you were so close to him you could smell him? 69 00:05:18,405 --> 00:05:20,102 He walked past her, didn't he? 70 00:05:20,450 --> 00:05:22,408 - Okay. - When he walked past you, 71 00:05:22,409 --> 00:05:24,193 - was Conor with him then? - No. 72 00:05:24,498 --> 00:05:26,674 He went in with Conor, but he come out on his own. 73 00:05:28,415 --> 00:05:29,329 Okay. 74 00:05:31,113 --> 00:05:32,940 They just picked up Conor's mum from work. 75 00:05:32,941 --> 00:05:34,334 She's on her way to the mortuary. 76 00:06:14,461 --> 00:06:16,071 I was late for work. 77 00:06:17,899 --> 00:06:19,814 I didn't kiss him goodbye. 78 00:06:25,515 --> 00:06:29,605 Julie, I'm very sorry, but we're going to need to ask you some questions, okay? 79 00:06:29,606 --> 00:06:31,739 Do you think he was really scared? 80 00:06:36,178 --> 00:06:40,661 You've had some contact with Social Services over the kids, yeah? 81 00:06:41,444 --> 00:06:44,012 My ex hit Liam, once. 82 00:06:44,882 --> 00:06:47,058 The minute I found out, I packed his bags. 83 00:06:49,191 --> 00:06:51,714 So, there wasn't an adult that you could leave him with? 84 00:06:51,715 --> 00:06:53,717 You think I could afford a super-nanny? 85 00:06:54,239 --> 00:06:57,633 I work 12 hours a day to keep a roof over our heads. 86 00:06:57,634 --> 00:07:00,811 I can't just give up cause it's school holidays. 87 00:07:02,465 --> 00:07:05,336 So, Liam looks after Conor while you're at work, yeah? 88 00:07:05,337 --> 00:07:06,208 Yeah. 89 00:07:07,165 --> 00:07:08,428 Liam and the girls. 90 00:07:10,038 --> 00:07:11,822 - That's Paige Ward? - Paige and her mate. 91 00:07:12,867 --> 00:07:15,739 Always coming round asking if they could babysit. 92 00:07:18,263 --> 00:07:19,395 Conor loved them. 93 00:07:22,311 --> 00:07:23,747 Can I get Buddy back? 94 00:07:25,836 --> 00:07:29,318 That's his toy dog. He took him everywhere. 95 00:07:29,710 --> 00:07:32,973 Of course, yeah, we need to keep him just a little bit longer, 96 00:07:32,974 --> 00:07:36,107 but we'll let you have him back as soon as we can. I promise. 97 00:07:36,630 --> 00:07:39,763 Julie, have you ever seen this man around the estate? 98 00:07:41,069 --> 00:07:42,462 We think he's a mechanic. 99 00:07:44,115 --> 00:07:47,684 Yeah, he looks like my neighbor's boyfriend. Rob something. 100 00:07:48,903 --> 00:07:52,559 No, he works at the garage on Cold Harbor Lane. That's it. 101 00:07:55,866 --> 00:07:57,085 You think it was him? 102 00:07:59,740 --> 00:08:01,393 Maybe you should call your brief. 103 00:08:03,308 --> 00:08:05,440 I don't need a brief because I don't know nothing about no little boy. 104 00:08:05,441 --> 00:08:08,443 I'm a red-blooded bloke, mate. Look under my mattress 105 00:08:08,444 --> 00:08:10,663 - if you don't believe me. - Our witness saw you take 106 00:08:10,664 --> 00:08:12,969 that boy into those flats. Only, you came out alone 107 00:08:12,970 --> 00:08:14,536 and he ended up dead. 108 00:08:14,537 --> 00:08:16,495 The boy lived in the flat next door to your girlfriend. 109 00:08:16,496 --> 00:08:19,062 Or at least he did until our witness spotted you abduct him. 110 00:08:19,063 --> 00:08:21,108 Well, they need their eyes testing, don't they? 111 00:08:21,109 --> 00:08:23,458 Because I banged on my missus' door for ten minutes. 112 00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:26,461 - And then I went back to work. - And did anyone see you leave? 113 00:08:26,462 --> 00:08:27,811 Well, I don't know, do I? 114 00:08:37,038 --> 00:08:38,648 No, no. There was-- There was a girl. 115 00:08:39,997 --> 00:08:45,176 There was a girl. She must have been about twelve-ish. 116 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,919 - That's it? - Yeah. 117 00:08:49,703 --> 00:08:53,097 She had like fair hair. 118 00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:55,012 She was a skinny thing. 119 00:08:58,625 --> 00:09:01,323 And an Arsenal shirt. 120 00:09:05,109 --> 00:09:07,502 - And this was at Lexden House? - Right by the door, 121 00:09:07,503 --> 00:09:09,723 like she was waiting for someone to come out. 122 00:09:13,814 --> 00:09:15,163 Here's the problem, Paige. 123 00:09:15,772 --> 00:09:18,034 You say you saw the man at the empty flats, 124 00:09:18,035 --> 00:09:19,341 the ones they're pulling down. 125 00:09:19,776 --> 00:09:21,385 He went inside with Conor. 126 00:09:21,386 --> 00:09:23,301 I don't like her playing near them empty flats. 127 00:09:24,651 --> 00:09:27,915 Well, you see, we think you saw the man at Lexden House where Conor lived. 128 00:09:28,524 --> 00:09:30,657 - No. - Are you sure it wasn't Lexden House? 129 00:09:31,092 --> 00:09:33,311 It was Peldon. I ain't lying, Mum. 130 00:09:34,443 --> 00:09:36,924 Paige don't tell lies. She's a good girl. 131 00:09:37,359 --> 00:09:39,579 And you've never been to Lexden House at any time? 132 00:09:40,101 --> 00:09:41,972 - No. - Are you sure about that? 133 00:09:42,277 --> 00:09:44,496 I said, didn't I? I told you. 134 00:09:44,888 --> 00:09:47,455 - Why's he picking on me? - We just need really you 135 00:09:47,456 --> 00:09:48,675 to help us out, here. 136 00:09:52,853 --> 00:09:56,682 Yeah. Would you like a drink? Do you want a cup of tea, Matty? 137 00:09:56,683 --> 00:09:58,422 Mrs. Ward, would you like a cup of tea? 138 00:09:58,423 --> 00:10:00,687 - Oh, yeah. Cheers. Two sugars. - Okay. 139 00:10:05,474 --> 00:10:07,518 I used to chew my nails when I was a kid. 140 00:10:09,783 --> 00:10:11,566 Especially if I was nervous. 141 00:10:11,567 --> 00:10:13,873 We had this teacher at school. He used to bang his hand 142 00:10:13,874 --> 00:10:16,005 down on the table every time he saw me do it. 143 00:10:16,006 --> 00:10:17,704 Of course, that only made me do it even more. 144 00:10:19,749 --> 00:10:21,490 You chew your nails 'cause you're nervous, don't you? 145 00:10:24,536 --> 00:10:25,537 The thing is, Paige... 146 00:10:27,583 --> 00:10:30,151 we've spoken to the man that you saw with Conor. 147 00:10:30,673 --> 00:10:34,721 And he says that you saw him at Lexden House where Conor lived. 148 00:10:35,504 --> 00:10:39,029 - He was by Peldon. - And you're absolutely certain? 149 00:10:39,421 --> 00:10:41,814 - Cross my heart. - 'Cause I won't be angry 150 00:10:41,815 --> 00:10:44,034 you know, if you've made a mistake. We all make mistakes. 151 00:10:44,382 --> 00:10:46,602 If you don't believe her, you can ask her mate. 152 00:10:47,168 --> 00:10:48,691 Joined at the hip them two. 153 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,694 Someone else saw what happened? 154 00:10:51,955 --> 00:10:55,263 Rose. She was with me the whole time. 155 00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:02,096 - Who is it? - Police. Open up, please. 156 00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:03,880 You got a warrant? 157 00:11:05,926 --> 00:11:09,320 - Is your mum there, Rose? - She's busy. 158 00:11:09,756 --> 00:11:11,671 We just need you to open the door. 159 00:11:18,416 --> 00:11:20,941 I'm only supposed to open the door if she screams. 160 00:11:25,162 --> 00:11:26,120 Thank you. 161 00:11:49,665 --> 00:11:52,581 I don't do threesomes. So, your mate will have to wait in here. 162 00:11:53,495 --> 00:11:56,367 Actually, we would like to talk to Rose 163 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:59,501 about the boy who died in the empty flats. 164 00:12:01,285 --> 00:12:02,678 Rose don't know nothing about it. 165 00:12:03,940 --> 00:12:06,029 Well, we think she could be a witness. 166 00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:11,208 So, we'd like you both to come down to the station for a video ID. 167 00:12:14,690 --> 00:12:17,300 Both girls picked out Denton from the video ID. 168 00:12:17,301 --> 00:12:18,867 We've enough to charge him. 169 00:12:18,868 --> 00:12:21,305 And Denton identified Paige outside the dead boy's flat. 170 00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:24,003 Or maybe he saw her at the murder scene. 171 00:12:24,004 --> 00:12:26,049 But Denton hasn't got any previous involving kids. 172 00:12:26,702 --> 00:12:28,355 Now, the cause of death we confirmed, 173 00:12:28,356 --> 00:12:31,314 it wasn't a bump on the head, it was by manual strangulation. 174 00:12:31,315 --> 00:12:33,490 No signs of sexual assault. 175 00:12:33,491 --> 00:12:36,276 Oh, so he's been flying under the radar. Those girls know what they saw. 176 00:12:36,277 --> 00:12:39,280 - I still think Paige is lying. - Because she chews her nails? 177 00:12:39,671 --> 00:12:42,108 - It's just a feeling, Ron. - Well, we can talk to her again. 178 00:12:42,109 --> 00:12:44,980 - That's no problem. - If the girls saw Denton take 179 00:12:44,981 --> 00:12:46,896 the kid, then someone else must've done. 180 00:12:47,462 --> 00:12:48,680 Someone did. 181 00:12:50,987 --> 00:12:52,075 There's something you need to see. 182 00:12:53,555 --> 00:12:55,557 This is Denton outside his girlfriend's flat. 183 00:12:58,908 --> 00:13:01,476 At 9:31 he heads towards the car park. 184 00:13:07,656 --> 00:13:10,354 Then at 9:35... 185 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:23,106 And another camera picks them up heading towards Peldon House. 186 00:13:25,152 --> 00:13:27,284 Please, God, tell me this isn't what I think it is. 187 00:13:38,078 --> 00:13:39,906 Look at her. Face of an angel. 188 00:13:41,211 --> 00:13:42,560 Paige seems to trust you. 189 00:13:44,432 --> 00:13:46,825 You take Rose, but I want a member of CPS watching those interviews. 190 00:13:46,826 --> 00:13:48,652 And I want both girls arrested and cautioned 191 00:13:48,653 --> 00:13:50,351 before they speak a single word. 192 00:13:52,657 --> 00:13:55,747 You understand that you can have a solicitor here if you want one? 193 00:13:56,313 --> 00:13:58,488 Oh, we don't need one. She ain't done nothing wrong, 194 00:13:58,489 --> 00:14:00,187 - have you, babe? - No. 195 00:14:02,058 --> 00:14:02,972 Okay. 196 00:14:05,192 --> 00:14:07,585 I want to talk about what happened to little Conor. 197 00:14:10,501 --> 00:14:13,026 You went out to play with your friend, Paige. Is that right? 198 00:14:13,809 --> 00:14:16,725 - Yeah. We played football. - Okay. 199 00:14:17,726 --> 00:14:19,727 - Rose, do you know Conor? - You know she does. 200 00:14:19,728 --> 00:14:22,208 - He lives in our block. - Miss Shaw, I need Rose to answer 201 00:14:22,209 --> 00:14:23,863 - the questions, please. - Come on, then. 202 00:14:26,256 --> 00:14:29,084 Rose, did you go to Conor's flat the morning that he died? 203 00:14:29,085 --> 00:14:31,653 Yeah. Liam left him alone. 204 00:14:31,914 --> 00:14:34,308 So, you and Paige took him out to play, yeah? 205 00:14:34,917 --> 00:14:37,745 - It ain't nice being left on your own. - Is this gonna take much longer? 206 00:14:37,746 --> 00:14:39,442 Is there somewhere you need to be? 207 00:14:39,443 --> 00:14:41,140 I mean, I can always get a social worker 208 00:14:41,141 --> 00:14:43,621 - to come and sit in if you can't wait. - You don't know me. 209 00:14:45,101 --> 00:14:46,233 Just get on with it, yeah? 210 00:14:51,978 --> 00:14:54,197 So, where did you take Conor to play, Rose? 211 00:14:55,329 --> 00:14:56,460 By Peldon House. 212 00:14:57,766 --> 00:15:00,334 But, then this man come and took Conor inside. 213 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:03,946 And you know that's where we found Conor, don't you? Peldon House? 214 00:15:06,688 --> 00:15:08,255 Did he just lay down and die? 215 00:15:13,608 --> 00:15:16,567 Well, you know what? I think you know how he died, Rose. 216 00:15:17,655 --> 00:15:19,613 I don't think there was any man there at all. 217 00:15:19,614 --> 00:15:22,791 Yes, there was a man. Look, the man took him. 218 00:15:23,183 --> 00:15:25,010 Ask him what happened to Conor, not me. 219 00:15:25,011 --> 00:15:27,274 - I don't think you're telling me the truth. - Yes, I am! 220 00:15:27,578 --> 00:15:30,624 I've changed my mind. You can call that social worker. 221 00:15:30,625 --> 00:15:33,671 - No, Mum, you can't leave me. - No, just listen to what he says, right? 222 00:15:34,194 --> 00:15:35,890 The only words you say are "No comment". 223 00:15:35,891 --> 00:15:38,066 No, Mum. No, I want to go home with my mum. 224 00:15:38,067 --> 00:15:39,938 Stay here, Rose. 225 00:15:39,939 --> 00:15:42,027 Look, Kelly, I used to sit in these rooms just as twitchy as you... 226 00:15:42,028 --> 00:15:43,203 - Mum. - ...Calm down. 227 00:15:44,378 --> 00:15:45,770 Kelly, listen to me, alright? 228 00:15:46,032 --> 00:15:47,467 Mum! 229 00:15:47,468 --> 00:15:49,034 I wasn't worrying about what my next question was, 230 00:15:49,035 --> 00:15:50,905 I was worrying about when I was gonna get my next drink. 231 00:15:50,906 --> 00:15:51,907 - Mum! - Shut up! 232 00:15:53,996 --> 00:15:57,521 Kelly, today could be the first day you don't use. And you do have a choice. 233 00:15:58,609 --> 00:16:00,350 Your habit or your daughter. 234 00:16:02,526 --> 00:16:06,791 Mum. Mum! Mum! Mum, please! Mum, Mum! 235 00:16:16,062 --> 00:16:17,585 So, you like Arsenal, yeah? 236 00:16:18,064 --> 00:16:20,717 They're the best and it's alright to support them if you're 237 00:16:20,718 --> 00:16:23,720 from South London 'cause really they're from Woolwich Arsenal. 238 00:16:23,721 --> 00:16:25,592 They just moved north in the olden days. 239 00:16:25,593 --> 00:16:29,161 Yeah, that's right. And you got number 11 on your shirt. 240 00:16:29,162 --> 00:16:31,338 - That's Van Persie, isn't it? - Rachel Yankey. 241 00:16:31,816 --> 00:16:34,122 - She done this talk at our school. - Arsenal Ladies. 242 00:16:34,123 --> 00:16:35,472 It's all she goes on about. 243 00:16:37,083 --> 00:16:38,432 Well, maybe one day you'll be the next Rachel Yankey, eh? 244 00:16:38,867 --> 00:16:40,347 No, I'll never be as good as her. 245 00:16:40,651 --> 00:16:42,566 I used to play a bit when I was a kid. 246 00:16:43,089 --> 00:16:45,743 Yeah, we had a scout from the Arsenal come 'round our school once. 247 00:16:46,744 --> 00:16:49,182 Only, I was so nervous about not being picked 248 00:16:49,486 --> 00:16:52,140 - I pulled a sickie. - You didn't even try? 249 00:16:52,141 --> 00:16:56,754 Well, I wanted to, but the truth is I was too scared of messing up. 250 00:16:58,017 --> 00:16:59,627 I've never told anyone that before. 251 00:17:01,063 --> 00:17:02,891 I feel better now that I've told you. 252 00:17:04,762 --> 00:17:06,633 You know when you try and keep a secret, 253 00:17:06,634 --> 00:17:07,765 and you wanna tell, 254 00:17:08,940 --> 00:17:11,900 it sort of hurts to keep it inside. 255 00:17:14,468 --> 00:17:16,687 Well, if you share it with a friend, it feels better. 256 00:17:16,992 --> 00:17:19,864 You see, Paige, I think you've got a secret 257 00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:22,128 about what happened to little Conor. 258 00:17:23,738 --> 00:17:25,174 And we're friends, aren't we? 259 00:17:28,264 --> 00:17:29,787 Let me share your secret. 260 00:17:31,485 --> 00:17:32,877 Make it stop hurting. 261 00:17:35,489 --> 00:17:36,359 Mum. 262 00:17:45,281 --> 00:17:46,848 She's so close I can smell it. 263 00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:53,072 When my girls were little, I took them to the fair one Sunday. 264 00:17:57,337 --> 00:18:01,036 And we were queuing up and I was paying for the girl s to get on this ride. 265 00:18:03,169 --> 00:18:05,867 A typical Sunday dad, over-compensating them. 266 00:18:06,389 --> 00:18:09,784 I've got toys and prizes I'd won. 267 00:18:10,393 --> 00:18:12,830 Popcorn, candy floss, all that stuff. 268 00:18:14,049 --> 00:18:16,660 I turned 'round, and the little one had gone. 269 00:18:20,577 --> 00:18:23,276 Just disappeared, and the place was mobbed. 270 00:18:26,583 --> 00:18:29,151 That is really, truly frightening for me. 271 00:18:30,805 --> 00:18:31,893 Do you know where she was? 272 00:18:33,155 --> 00:18:34,852 And me a copper, an' all! 273 00:18:36,245 --> 00:18:38,551 She'd sneaked into the stall next door, 274 00:18:38,552 --> 00:18:40,119 and was trying to nick a goldfish. 275 00:18:42,382 --> 00:18:44,514 I tell you, kids, mate! 276 00:18:46,342 --> 00:18:47,256 It's frightening. 277 00:18:49,737 --> 00:18:51,042 We should get back in there. 278 00:18:52,261 --> 00:18:53,219 Yeah. 279 00:18:55,090 --> 00:18:56,178 Just give us a minute, eh? 280 00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:05,753 Tell me it ain't true you, got them girls in there. 281 00:19:07,711 --> 00:19:10,149 They wouldn't hurt my Conor. No, they wouldn't! 282 00:19:11,237 --> 00:19:13,238 We're just talking to them at the moment, Julie. 283 00:19:13,239 --> 00:19:16,545 Yeah, but they're just kids. I mean, please, just tell me 284 00:19:16,546 --> 00:19:20,070 they didn't do it, yeah? Please, please, I mean it! 285 00:19:21,725 --> 00:19:22,639 I'm sorry. 286 00:19:37,088 --> 00:19:38,220 That's you, isn't it, Paige? 287 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:41,919 Number 11, like Rachel Yankey. 288 00:19:43,443 --> 00:19:44,444 And that's Rose, isn't it? 289 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,709 And that's Conor. 290 00:19:51,538 --> 00:19:54,018 You see, there's cameras all over the estate. 291 00:19:55,281 --> 00:19:57,369 They take pictures of people walking about, 292 00:19:57,370 --> 00:19:58,936 going in and out of the blocks. 293 00:20:00,677 --> 00:20:04,246 This picture was taken about 20 minutes before Conor died. 294 00:20:06,814 --> 00:20:10,295 There's other pictures that show the man that you picked out 295 00:20:10,296 --> 00:20:13,299 leaving the estate before Conor died. 296 00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:25,136 Do you think Mum realizes just how serious this is? 297 00:20:26,137 --> 00:20:29,053 Who wants to believe their kid's involved with something like this? 298 00:20:31,882 --> 00:20:33,319 The poor woman's in shock. 299 00:20:35,625 --> 00:20:38,106 I know I would be if that was one of my girls sat there. 300 00:20:39,499 --> 00:20:42,283 Maybe we should get Matt to ask again if they want a brief. 301 00:20:42,284 --> 00:20:43,894 She's gonna spill any second. 302 00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:49,160 You know I love you, babe, no matter what you done. 303 00:20:50,814 --> 00:20:52,642 You got to tell the policeman the truth. 304 00:20:54,209 --> 00:20:56,429 Who went into Peldon House with Conor? 305 00:20:58,518 --> 00:20:59,649 Just me and Rose. 306 00:21:02,783 --> 00:21:05,655 And little Conor. We took him. 307 00:21:06,439 --> 00:21:08,005 And did someone hurt Conor? 308 00:21:09,355 --> 00:21:10,486 He was crying. 309 00:21:12,009 --> 00:21:13,097 He wanted his mum. 310 00:21:14,447 --> 00:21:17,580 And Rose put her hands around his neck. 311 00:21:20,801 --> 00:21:22,281 He tried to get her off, 312 00:21:23,064 --> 00:21:25,762 but he fell back and banged his head against the wall. 313 00:21:26,067 --> 00:21:28,374 It's okay, baby. It's okay. 314 00:21:30,767 --> 00:21:33,814 - What happened next, Paige? - She got on top of him. 315 00:21:35,076 --> 00:21:37,034 Started squeezing his neck again. 316 00:21:39,036 --> 00:21:41,082 When she got off, he just lay there. 317 00:21:43,606 --> 00:21:46,566 And then she got out this compass, 318 00:21:47,393 --> 00:21:48,829 like we use in Math's, 319 00:21:50,744 --> 00:21:54,443 and told me to scratch my name on his tummy. 320 00:21:55,575 --> 00:21:56,750 And you did it? 321 00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:59,100 I only did the P. 322 00:22:01,145 --> 00:22:02,799 I couldn't do the rest. 323 00:22:04,758 --> 00:22:06,325 Then she took it off me, 324 00:22:06,934 --> 00:22:10,329 and done another line to make it to an R for Rose. 325 00:22:15,508 --> 00:22:16,726 Can we go home now? 326 00:22:23,385 --> 00:22:26,996 Police have arrested two girls aged 10 and 13 327 00:22:26,997 --> 00:22:30,044 on suspicion of the murder of five-year-old Conor Reid. 328 00:22:30,479 --> 00:22:33,830 Conor was found dead here at the Kelvedon Estate last week. 329 00:22:34,570 --> 00:22:37,920 It's believed the girls were moved to a secret location last night 330 00:22:37,921 --> 00:22:41,446 after the police station, where they were being held, came under siege 331 00:22:41,447 --> 00:22:42,926 from angry protestors. 332 00:22:44,798 --> 00:22:46,625 This is getting out of hand, and we haven't even charged them yet. 333 00:22:46,626 --> 00:22:50,456 Little girl killers. The public can't stomach it. 334 00:22:51,674 --> 00:22:52,893 It's understandable. 335 00:22:57,854 --> 00:22:59,203 Kids killing kids. 336 00:23:01,249 --> 00:23:02,772 This is as bad as it gets. 337 00:23:05,819 --> 00:23:07,168 So, what are the girls saying? 338 00:23:08,691 --> 00:23:10,823 - They're blaming each other. - What about the forensics? 339 00:23:10,824 --> 00:23:14,087 The girls were tested too late for any surviving contact trace evidence. 340 00:23:14,088 --> 00:23:16,263 We're still waiting on the analysis of their clothing. 341 00:23:16,264 --> 00:23:18,918 So, until we get it, there's no way of knowing which one of them 342 00:23:18,919 --> 00:23:19,963 is telling the truth? 343 00:23:21,312 --> 00:23:23,010 The police believe Paige is telling the truth, 344 00:23:23,402 --> 00:23:26,795 that Rose is the killer. Paige has cooperated fully. 345 00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:29,059 And she's prepared to give evidence against Rose in court. 346 00:23:29,712 --> 00:23:31,366 What does her brief want in return? 347 00:23:31,627 --> 00:23:33,368 A Section 73 agreement. 348 00:23:34,674 --> 00:23:36,152 Paige has given a statement 349 00:23:36,153 --> 00:23:40,593 detailing exactly how Rose Shaw killed Conor Reid. 350 00:23:41,507 --> 00:23:43,334 She's a witness, nothing more. 351 00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:47,687 Your client carved her initial into the dead boy's skin. 352 00:23:48,209 --> 00:23:51,603 She colluded with her friend to concoct a story, blaming an innocent man. 353 00:23:51,604 --> 00:23:54,954 - Under duress from Rose Shaw. - Oh, come on, Luke! 354 00:23:54,955 --> 00:23:57,086 Rose is three years younger than your client. 355 00:23:57,087 --> 00:23:59,611 And bright as a button according to her teachers. 356 00:23:59,612 --> 00:24:03,006 Paige, on the other hand, has learning difficulties. 357 00:24:03,790 --> 00:24:08,664 The police believe Rose Shaw acted alone. A jury will, too. 358 00:24:12,494 --> 00:24:14,931 Paige pleads guilty to assisting an offender. 359 00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:18,935 She's practically handing you Rose Shaw with bells on. 360 00:24:19,545 --> 00:24:21,502 The least you can do is drop the charges. 361 00:24:21,503 --> 00:24:24,680 That's the deal. Take it or leave it. 362 00:24:25,072 --> 00:24:26,465 We sign that agreement, 363 00:24:26,769 --> 00:24:27,814 there's no going back. 364 00:24:29,816 --> 00:24:31,078 Paige Ward gets immunity on everything except assisting an offender, right? 365 00:24:33,036 --> 00:24:34,950 Okay. Get the papers signed. 366 00:24:34,951 --> 00:24:37,040 But we charge Rose with murder. 367 00:24:37,824 --> 00:24:38,738 Who's her brief? 368 00:24:40,653 --> 00:24:41,958 You so don't want to know. 369 00:24:43,133 --> 00:24:45,179 Come on. How bad can it be? 370 00:24:47,094 --> 00:24:50,184 There he is, Balls of Steel. 371 00:24:50,706 --> 00:24:53,492 - Kim. - You don't call. You don't write. 372 00:24:53,927 --> 00:24:56,624 You didn't seriously expect any deals on the table? 373 00:24:56,625 --> 00:24:57,887 You did get my email? 374 00:24:59,498 --> 00:25:02,022 Oh, don't tell me it's still floating around in cyberspace. 375 00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:07,374 I told our new clerk when we need to disclose something to the Crown, 376 00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:10,030 - now means now. - What are you disclosing? 377 00:25:11,727 --> 00:25:15,601 I've brought you a spare copy, just in case. 378 00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:28,614 Deep breaths. 379 00:25:34,445 --> 00:25:36,360 Rose Shaw is ten years old. 380 00:25:37,361 --> 00:25:39,973 She played no part in this horrific crime, 381 00:25:40,364 --> 00:25:43,716 and is devastated to learn that her best friend says otherwise. 382 00:25:44,238 --> 00:25:48,068 I'm asking you to release this poor child into her mother's care. 383 00:25:48,590 --> 00:25:52,158 Miss Sharkey, as much as it irks me to have to consider 384 00:25:52,159 --> 00:25:55,597 locking up a ten-year-old, Paige Ward has your client 385 00:25:55,858 --> 00:25:58,295 choking a boy to death with her bare hands. 386 00:25:59,035 --> 00:26:01,734 I simply cannot ignore such a statement. 387 00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:05,825 Indeed you cannot, My Lord, were said statement taken legally. 388 00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:10,003 However... I suggest that is not the case, 389 00:26:10,438 --> 00:26:13,789 and hereby apply to have Paige Ward's interview excluded. 390 00:26:14,181 --> 00:26:16,486 My Lord, I request an immediate adjournment. 391 00:26:16,487 --> 00:26:18,967 The Crown have not been informed of any such application. 392 00:26:18,968 --> 00:26:21,317 And yet Miss Phillips appears to have a copy 393 00:26:21,318 --> 00:26:23,755 of the application and all supporting evidence 394 00:26:23,756 --> 00:26:25,147 right there in front of her. 395 00:26:25,148 --> 00:26:27,586 Because you handed it over five minutes ago. 396 00:26:27,847 --> 00:26:31,111 Either it was disclosed or it was not, Mr. Steel. 397 00:26:32,199 --> 00:26:33,548 Continue, Ms. Sharkey. 398 00:26:35,550 --> 00:26:38,508 At the time of her interview, Paige Ward was not accompanied 399 00:26:38,509 --> 00:26:40,990 by a solicitor or appropriate adult. 400 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,949 She was accompanied by her 28-year-old mother 401 00:26:43,950 --> 00:26:45,907 who refused legal representation. 402 00:26:45,908 --> 00:26:48,824 A woman with an IQ below that of an average 12-year-old. 403 00:26:49,216 --> 00:26:51,260 Unlike the morals of an average 12-year-old 404 00:26:51,261 --> 00:26:53,045 which my learned colleague shares. 405 00:26:53,046 --> 00:26:54,830 Miss Sharkey, Mr. Steel, 406 00:26:55,439 --> 00:26:57,267 my chambers now, please. 407 00:26:58,704 --> 00:27:00,400 After meeting Paige Ward's mother, 408 00:27:00,401 --> 00:27:02,968 I took it upon myself to have her IQ tested. 409 00:27:02,969 --> 00:27:07,494 It also came to light that she has learning difficulties and mild autism. 410 00:27:07,495 --> 00:27:10,149 There wasn't time to second-guess the IQ of appropriate adults. 411 00:27:10,150 --> 00:27:12,238 The police had to act quickly in the best interest 412 00:27:12,239 --> 00:27:14,153 - of gathering evidence. - Evidence they gathered 413 00:27:14,154 --> 00:27:18,636 by coercing a 13-year old girl into saying what they wanted to hear. 414 00:27:18,637 --> 00:27:21,856 They bribed her with a Happy Meal, and chatted about her hobbies, 415 00:27:21,857 --> 00:27:24,642 - for God's sakes. - The officer was creating a bond of trust. 416 00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:26,644 with the suspect. They naturally assumed 417 00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:28,907 the mother would intervene if she was unhappy with the line of questions. 418 00:27:28,908 --> 00:27:32,040 Her mother wouldn't have intervened if DS Devlin had danced the fandango 419 00:27:32,041 --> 00:27:33,520 - with her. - The only one making a song 420 00:27:33,521 --> 00:27:35,609 and dance about this is you. What've you got planned 421 00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:37,611 for your finale, Kim? IQ test Paige Ward's counsel? 422 00:27:37,612 --> 00:27:38,526 Enough, enough. 423 00:27:40,528 --> 00:27:42,790 The whole point of an appropriate adult 424 00:27:42,791 --> 00:27:46,186 is to safeguard the rights and welfare of young people in custody. 425 00:27:47,927 --> 00:27:50,538 I intend to play this one with a straight bat. 426 00:27:53,497 --> 00:27:55,498 I'm granting Ms. Sharkey's application 427 00:27:55,499 --> 00:27:56,805 to exclude the statement. 428 00:28:02,071 --> 00:28:05,684 That statement put Rose Shaw's hands round Conor Reid's neck. 429 00:28:06,641 --> 00:28:10,732 We signed the Section 73 based on it, now we can't even use it! 430 00:28:11,472 --> 00:28:14,518 You must have realized Tina Ward wasn't a suitable, appropriate adult. 431 00:28:15,084 --> 00:28:16,695 Do I look like Derren Brown? 432 00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:19,479 She came across like half the adults we meet. 433 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,569 We don't exactly deal with Mensa candidates. 434 00:28:22,309 --> 00:28:24,963 Any other judge would have thrown Sharkey out of court 435 00:28:24,964 --> 00:28:28,054 pulling a stunt like that. Blame Justice Pedotti. 436 00:28:28,402 --> 00:28:30,665 And do we have a case without that statement? 437 00:28:32,972 --> 00:28:36,758 Please tell me, forensics are going to confirm Rose Shaw's guilt. 438 00:28:37,019 --> 00:28:39,717 Without a doubt. Conor's DNA is gonna be 439 00:28:39,718 --> 00:28:41,632 all over Rose Shaw's clothing. 440 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:46,986 Well, let's get this over with, then. 441 00:28:49,684 --> 00:28:53,688 We represent Conor, which means we represent you. 442 00:28:55,429 --> 00:28:58,474 We're certain the forensic analysis of the girl's clothing 443 00:28:58,475 --> 00:29:01,739 will give us the evidence we need to put Rose Shaw behind bars 444 00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:02,784 for a very long time. 445 00:29:03,089 --> 00:29:04,394 She'll go to prison? 446 00:29:06,048 --> 00:29:08,747 Well, initially she'll remain in secure local authority care. 447 00:29:09,356 --> 00:29:11,487 Then when she's old enough, she'll be transferred 448 00:29:11,488 --> 00:29:14,709 to a young offenders' institution. Then an adult prison. 449 00:29:15,014 --> 00:29:17,232 - Her whole childhood. - You won't have to worry 450 00:29:17,233 --> 00:29:19,845 about her being released until her early 20s. 451 00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:25,719 I saw this woman on the news last night 452 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,854 and she said Rose Shaw was Satan reborn. 453 00:29:30,116 --> 00:29:32,074 They should bring back hanging just for her. 454 00:29:33,859 --> 00:29:35,991 I've never heard so much hate in someone's voice. 455 00:29:37,819 --> 00:29:40,387 Well, public feeling is very strong. 456 00:29:40,691 --> 00:29:42,389 All these flowers on the estate, 457 00:29:43,477 --> 00:29:46,393 sack loads of cards every day like they all knew him. 458 00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:50,876 All of them out there feeding off my boy's death. 459 00:29:52,399 --> 00:29:53,922 Then it take over their lives. 460 00:29:55,271 --> 00:29:56,664 It's like they need it. 461 00:29:58,971 --> 00:30:01,582 The funny thing is, all I want... 462 00:30:02,278 --> 00:30:05,586 yeah, all I need is to let it go. 463 00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:08,458 The trial can help you do that. 464 00:30:08,894 --> 00:30:10,591 Sending her to prison won't help me. 465 00:30:13,986 --> 00:30:15,465 It won't bring my boy back. 466 00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:24,082 Most victims' families find it gives them a sense of closure. 467 00:30:24,083 --> 00:30:27,477 Closure? This ain't closure. 468 00:30:28,914 --> 00:30:30,219 This is revenge. 469 00:30:32,221 --> 00:30:34,789 No, that little girl don't deserve it. 470 00:30:35,311 --> 00:30:36,921 She's been through enough. 471 00:30:36,922 --> 00:30:40,534 We live on the same estate. I know what goes on in there. 472 00:30:42,362 --> 00:30:45,408 She broke the law in the most terrible way. 473 00:30:45,713 --> 00:30:46,932 She's a child. 474 00:30:48,977 --> 00:30:52,633 What, you wanna hide her behind a ten-foot wall so no-one has to look at her? 475 00:30:53,547 --> 00:30:57,812 No-one has to ask her who's really responsible for Conor's death? 476 00:30:58,204 --> 00:30:59,118 No. 477 00:31:00,510 --> 00:31:03,078 No, no. It's too easy. 478 00:31:04,384 --> 00:31:07,039 Prosecuting kids is never easy. 479 00:31:09,258 --> 00:31:10,738 My Conor, he used to... 480 00:31:12,392 --> 00:31:14,088 he liked to draw them pictures, you know, the ones where you put 481 00:31:14,089 --> 00:31:16,396 the paint through straws. 482 00:31:18,964 --> 00:31:21,053 He loved dogs. 483 00:31:24,491 --> 00:31:26,928 That's how I wanna remember him. 484 00:31:28,625 --> 00:31:30,540 My happy little boy. 485 00:31:32,455 --> 00:31:34,805 I don't want my memories clouded by hate. 486 00:31:37,765 --> 00:31:41,769 I mean, would you want your son brought up in a world with no hope? 487 00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:49,037 You can't save Conor. 488 00:31:50,691 --> 00:31:51,910 But you can save her. 489 00:31:53,781 --> 00:31:57,002 Yeah, you can give Rosie Shaw a life. 490 00:31:58,220 --> 00:31:59,482 You can forgive her? 491 00:32:01,006 --> 00:32:03,269 I hate what she did 492 00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:07,664 with every bone in my body, but... 493 00:32:09,231 --> 00:32:12,887 but... I'm a mum. 494 00:32:15,716 --> 00:32:17,848 I can't hate a child. 495 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:23,245 You say you represent me... 496 00:32:24,029 --> 00:32:25,291 then this is what you do. 497 00:32:26,292 --> 00:32:30,252 You make Conor's life mean something. 498 00:32:30,861 --> 00:32:35,649 You find out why she did it, and you get that little girl help. 499 00:32:43,048 --> 00:32:44,136 We have to help her. 500 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,966 We can't just drop a murder charge. 501 00:32:48,314 --> 00:32:51,142 The DPP will have your balls and mine too, George. 502 00:32:51,143 --> 00:32:54,145 Not just the DPP, the Attorney General wants 503 00:32:54,146 --> 00:32:55,886 Rose Shaw convicted of murder. 504 00:32:56,844 --> 00:32:59,325 So that's it. Our hands are tied. 505 00:33:00,717 --> 00:33:01,936 Not on my watch. 506 00:33:03,285 --> 00:33:04,983 You heard what Mrs. Reid wants. 507 00:33:07,028 --> 00:33:07,986 What do we do? 508 00:33:09,335 --> 00:33:11,337 My granddaughter is the same age. 509 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,515 She spends her time riding ponies and making daisy chains. 510 00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:19,998 I want to know what makes a girl of ten 511 00:33:20,215 --> 00:33:22,261 put her hands round a child's neck... 512 00:33:23,088 --> 00:33:24,959 and squeeze the life out of him. 513 00:33:29,181 --> 00:33:32,140 Rose, did you worry what your mum was doing with these men? 514 00:33:33,794 --> 00:33:38,625 My mum says that psychiatrists, they mess up your brain waves. 515 00:33:40,235 --> 00:33:41,845 Is that what you're gonna do to me? 516 00:33:42,281 --> 00:33:44,412 Dr. Marsh believes that 517 00:33:44,413 --> 00:33:48,242 the abuse changed the physiology of Rose's nervous system, which means 518 00:33:48,243 --> 00:33:50,985 her responsibility was diminished at the time of the killing. 519 00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:54,510 Right, we offer Sharkey a deal, then. 520 00:33:55,729 --> 00:33:57,296 Get Rose the help that she needs. 521 00:33:58,775 --> 00:34:01,169 Police just called. Forensics are in. 522 00:34:02,431 --> 00:34:05,608 - Are you sure about this? - Forensics don't lie. Kids do. 523 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,046 - But everyone was so certain. - They checked both the girls' clothing. 524 00:34:09,047 --> 00:34:12,701 There are 148 microscopic spots of blood on the front of her shirt. 525 00:34:12,702 --> 00:34:14,921 Which means that when the boy died, 526 00:34:14,922 --> 00:34:18,186 the one with her hands around his throat was Paige Ward. 527 00:34:21,885 --> 00:34:24,584 We have a Section 73 signed and sealed. 528 00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:28,543 You can't charge Paige with anything further in relation to this case. 529 00:34:28,544 --> 00:34:32,287 Your client had Conor Reid's blood all over her shirt. 530 00:34:34,333 --> 00:34:37,291 Which means that when Conor Reid died 531 00:34:37,292 --> 00:34:39,947 the person in contact with him was indeed Paige, 532 00:34:40,295 --> 00:34:42,340 and not Rose Shaw. 533 00:34:42,341 --> 00:34:45,256 It isn't true. It was Rose. 534 00:34:45,257 --> 00:34:48,911 Must I remind you again, gentlemen, 535 00:34:48,912 --> 00:34:51,393 my client isn't here to be interrogated. 536 00:34:51,698 --> 00:34:55,093 Paige, you trust me, don't you? 537 00:34:57,878 --> 00:34:59,314 I need you to tell me the truth. 538 00:35:00,054 --> 00:35:02,274 We can walk out of here right now. 539 00:35:02,665 --> 00:35:04,014 It's not what you think. 540 00:35:04,276 --> 00:35:06,277 Paige, you don't have to say another word. 541 00:35:06,278 --> 00:35:07,888 I want to explain. 542 00:35:09,194 --> 00:35:14,155 After she done it, Rose just left. I picked Conor up, 543 00:35:14,721 --> 00:35:17,332 but he made this noise, like a cough sort of. 544 00:35:17,811 --> 00:35:21,249 - Why did you move him, Paige? - I wanted to take him home to his mum. 545 00:35:21,728 --> 00:35:23,817 But then Rose come back with the compass. 546 00:35:24,861 --> 00:35:26,385 I swear I didn't hurt Conor. 547 00:35:27,995 --> 00:35:30,737 It was me who put the toys there in case he got lonely. 548 00:35:33,435 --> 00:35:35,741 The pathologist has re-examined Conor's body. 549 00:35:35,742 --> 00:35:38,613 He found pulmonary interstitial emphysema, 550 00:35:38,614 --> 00:35:41,225 a buildup of pressure in Conor's lungs 551 00:35:41,226 --> 00:35:43,270 caused by blood blocking the airways. 552 00:35:43,271 --> 00:35:46,404 Now, it could have been released when Paige lifted him up 553 00:35:46,405 --> 00:35:49,058 causing expiration spatter or it could've been released 554 00:35:49,059 --> 00:35:50,278 as she was choking him. 555 00:35:51,845 --> 00:35:53,281 So much for forensics proving which one of them did it. 556 00:35:54,761 --> 00:35:56,415 Sharkey's gonna have a field day with this. 557 00:35:57,416 --> 00:35:58,417 Maybe not. 558 00:36:00,114 --> 00:36:02,246 According to the forensic report, 559 00:36:02,247 --> 00:36:05,032 there were seven curvilinear abrasions on Conor's neck. 560 00:36:05,598 --> 00:36:08,600 Three were at the front made by Conor trying to pry 561 00:36:08,601 --> 00:36:10,124 his attacker's hands off. 562 00:36:10,385 --> 00:36:12,604 And four at the back made by his attacker choking him. 563 00:36:12,605 --> 00:36:16,216 Yeah, but the report said without finding Conor's skin 564 00:36:16,217 --> 00:36:17,739 in the fingernail scrapings 565 00:36:17,740 --> 00:36:20,089 there was no way to ascertain which girl made them. 566 00:36:20,090 --> 00:36:23,006 But only Paige Ward's fingernails are bitten to the quick. 567 00:36:24,704 --> 00:36:26,880 The nail marks on the back of Conor's neck. 568 00:36:27,968 --> 00:36:31,885 Rose Shaw has a defect on the nail of her left forefinger. 569 00:36:32,277 --> 00:36:34,801 The same defect can be seen in those marks. 570 00:36:35,193 --> 00:36:39,588 A hundred and forty-eight spots of blood on a shirt spell murder to a jury. 571 00:36:40,067 --> 00:36:43,244 Four nail marks spell a bit of rough play. 572 00:36:44,158 --> 00:36:45,942 You should give juries more credit, Kim. 573 00:36:47,117 --> 00:36:49,510 Lucky for you we don't intend to put this to a jury. 574 00:36:49,511 --> 00:36:52,383 - You're offering a deal? - I'll accept a plea to manslaughter 575 00:36:52,384 --> 00:36:54,341 on the basis of diminished responsibility. 576 00:36:54,342 --> 00:36:57,215 Rose gets a hospital order with a Section 41 restriction. 577 00:36:57,650 --> 00:36:59,304 You want to put her in hospital? 578 00:37:00,305 --> 00:37:03,395 Don't you? Rose needs treatment. 579 00:37:05,266 --> 00:37:06,746 Thanks, but no thanks. 580 00:37:07,312 --> 00:37:10,837 Well, I'm giving your client a way out of a murder charge. 581 00:37:11,141 --> 00:37:14,579 Surely, it's in Rose's best interests to have someone try and fix her. 582 00:37:14,580 --> 00:37:18,018 The child's a monster. I doubt anyone could fix her. 583 00:37:18,671 --> 00:37:22,021 You're only offering a deal because you're worried I'm going to win. 584 00:37:22,022 --> 00:37:24,110 You can care less what's best for Rose. 585 00:37:24,111 --> 00:37:26,025 You just don't want to give up your 15 minutes. 586 00:37:26,026 --> 00:37:30,247 Cases like this come along once in a lifetime, James. 587 00:37:30,248 --> 00:37:33,815 - They're career makers. - This isn't a short cut to silk, Kim! 588 00:37:33,816 --> 00:37:36,819 - It's a child's life. - Do calm down, James, 589 00:37:37,211 --> 00:37:39,779 or you'll be comparing ulcers with George. 590 00:37:41,215 --> 00:37:44,305 The jury are going to see a very pretty little girl 591 00:37:45,045 --> 00:37:47,874 and hear how the Crown made a deal with a teenager 592 00:37:48,135 --> 00:37:51,225 who had the victim's blood all over her shirt. 593 00:37:52,792 --> 00:37:54,402 I know who I'd believe. 594 00:37:57,579 --> 00:37:58,580 She's a killer. 595 00:38:00,365 --> 00:38:02,801 And when the jury see photographs of a strangled five-year-old, 596 00:38:02,802 --> 00:38:04,977 the only place they'll want her is a prison cell. 597 00:38:04,978 --> 00:38:08,546 You know the prison system doesn't have the provisions for the sort of treatment 598 00:38:08,547 --> 00:38:11,288 - that this girl needs. - What is this preoccupation 599 00:38:11,289 --> 00:38:13,464 about treatment? The public don't care 600 00:38:13,465 --> 00:38:15,422 - about treating killers. - Well, they ought to. 601 00:38:15,423 --> 00:38:16,902 It's a matter of public safety. 602 00:38:16,903 --> 00:38:19,470 Now, if we send her to hospital, she will be released 603 00:38:19,471 --> 00:38:22,387 only if and when she's no longer a danger. 604 00:38:23,083 --> 00:38:27,217 Justice Pedotti will make sure she gets a minimum tariff of 12 years. 605 00:38:27,653 --> 00:38:30,698 There's no votes in being soft on children who commit crimes. 606 00:38:30,699 --> 00:38:34,267 I don't make decisions based on what gets the Home Secretary most votes. 607 00:38:34,268 --> 00:38:37,271 You lock that little girl away, and you might as well kill her, too. 608 00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:41,405 I'm not asking, George. As Director of Public Prosecutions, 609 00:38:41,406 --> 00:38:44,409 I'm telling. You try that girl for murder, 610 00:38:45,061 --> 00:38:46,889 and you make sure she's convicted. 611 00:38:54,419 --> 00:38:56,768 God, I swear that woman was put on this earth 612 00:38:56,769 --> 00:38:58,814 just to irritate my duodenum. 613 00:38:59,685 --> 00:39:02,426 Whatever it takes, you guarantee that that jury find 614 00:39:02,427 --> 00:39:05,080 on manslaughter, diminished responsibility, 615 00:39:05,081 --> 00:39:07,823 and not murder. I want that girl in a hospital, 616 00:39:08,084 --> 00:39:10,259 - not a prison. - What about the DPP? 617 00:39:10,260 --> 00:39:13,351 Screw the DPP? I answer to Conor's mother on this one. 618 00:39:15,788 --> 00:39:19,444 Dr. Haim Ginott talks about kids being like wet cement. 619 00:39:20,009 --> 00:39:22,142 Whatever falls on them makes an impression. 620 00:39:22,925 --> 00:39:25,318 In Rose's case, her abusive upbringing 621 00:39:25,319 --> 00:39:28,670 means she's ended up with a callous lack of concern for others. 622 00:39:29,454 --> 00:39:30,803 So, she lashes out. 623 00:39:31,717 --> 00:39:33,936 Is she in control of her actions? 624 00:39:34,328 --> 00:39:37,417 I don't believe at the time of the killing she intended to kill, 625 00:39:37,418 --> 00:39:39,594 or understood the permanency of death. 626 00:39:39,986 --> 00:39:43,381 - Can Rose's condition be treated? - It must be treated. 627 00:39:43,903 --> 00:39:46,208 Rose needs intensive psychotherapy 628 00:39:46,209 --> 00:39:49,690 - and pharmaceutical treatment. - Thank you. 629 00:39:49,691 --> 00:39:50,910 No further questions. 630 00:39:55,262 --> 00:39:57,220 Did you examine Paige Ward? 631 00:39:58,526 --> 00:40:01,703 - No. - Because the Crown didn't ask you to? 632 00:40:02,008 --> 00:40:04,836 - That's right. - And yet, Rose told you repeatedly 633 00:40:04,837 --> 00:40:08,188 that it was Paige Ward who killed Conor, did she not? 634 00:40:09,319 --> 00:40:12,278 - Well, yes, but denial is often-- - So, how are we to know 635 00:40:12,279 --> 00:40:14,585 what Paige Ward's mental state was 636 00:40:14,586 --> 00:40:18,459 when Conor Reid's blood splashed all over the front of her shirt, 637 00:40:18,981 --> 00:40:21,722 or when she carved her initial into his stomach? 638 00:40:21,723 --> 00:40:25,553 My Lord, does my learned friend assume the witness has psychic powers? 639 00:40:26,075 --> 00:40:28,468 How else could he possibly answer such questions? 640 00:40:28,469 --> 00:40:32,298 Miss Sharkey, please reserve questions regarding blood evidence 641 00:40:32,299 --> 00:40:34,431 for the appropriate expert witness. 642 00:40:34,432 --> 00:40:36,651 Apologies, My Lord. No further questions. 643 00:40:38,653 --> 00:40:40,524 "Evil from the day she was born." 644 00:40:40,525 --> 00:40:43,004 How can any mother say that about her own child? 645 00:40:43,005 --> 00:40:45,268 Trial by tabloid. Just what we needed. 646 00:40:45,573 --> 00:40:47,966 The woman is poison. The trial's not even over 647 00:40:47,967 --> 00:40:50,359 and she's got the public baying for her daughter's blood! 648 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:51,622 Along with the jury. 649 00:40:51,623 --> 00:40:53,798 If there was any chance of making them believe 650 00:40:53,799 --> 00:40:56,888 her responsibility was diminished, her mum and the bloody red tops just blew it. 651 00:40:56,889 --> 00:40:59,457 We have to find a way to make that jury see what we see. 652 00:40:59,979 --> 00:41:02,371 I'm sorry, George. I don't know what else we can do. 653 00:41:02,372 --> 00:41:04,548 Well, you have to make them understand that Conor Reid 654 00:41:04,549 --> 00:41:07,551 is not the only victim here. Rose Shaw's an abused child. 655 00:41:07,552 --> 00:41:08,683 She's a victim, too. 656 00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:18,388 No comment. 657 00:41:20,303 --> 00:41:22,391 Reporting restrictions exist for a reason. To protect your daughter. 658 00:41:22,392 --> 00:41:24,002 You don't give a shit about her welfare, do you. 659 00:41:24,003 --> 00:41:26,352 - I don't know what you mean. - I hope your 30 pieces of silver 660 00:41:26,353 --> 00:41:28,397 were worth it 'cause thanks to your sniveling to the tabloids, 661 00:41:28,398 --> 00:41:30,400 the country have made up their minds up about her. 662 00:41:33,665 --> 00:41:35,100 You shouldn't be talking to her, James 663 00:41:35,101 --> 00:41:36,275 Why not? She isn't a witness. 664 00:41:36,276 --> 00:41:38,233 Well, she should be. 665 00:41:38,234 --> 00:41:40,236 If the jury saw her true colors, it's her they'd want to lock up, not Rose. 666 00:41:44,589 --> 00:41:45,590 So, let's call her. 667 00:41:54,729 --> 00:41:56,818 Can you tell the court how you make your living? 668 00:42:00,082 --> 00:42:01,301 I ain't on trial here. 669 00:42:03,129 --> 00:42:04,609 Can you answer the question, please? 670 00:42:05,610 --> 00:42:08,482 - I'm a masseur. - You're a prostitute, are you not? 671 00:42:09,135 --> 00:42:11,484 We don't all have the sorts of mummies and daddies to fund us 672 00:42:11,485 --> 00:42:13,531 - through university. - Is Rose aware of what you do? 673 00:42:16,446 --> 00:42:18,360 When the police came to talk to Rose, 674 00:42:18,361 --> 00:42:21,015 you were engaged in a sex act with a client while she was 675 00:42:21,016 --> 00:42:23,889 - in the next room. - Plenty of mums work from home these days. 676 00:42:25,934 --> 00:42:28,457 When Dr. Marsh spoke to Rose, she told him that she'd not only seen 677 00:42:28,458 --> 00:42:30,242 - her mother working... - Doctors twist things. 678 00:42:30,243 --> 00:42:32,984 ...but she'd also seen violent, sadistic, pornographic films 679 00:42:32,985 --> 00:42:36,205 - which you watched with clients. - Turned her into a killer, did they? 680 00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:40,513 Is it right that one of the DVDs recovered from your flat showed a man passing out 681 00:42:40,514 --> 00:42:42,820 having been manually asphyxiated during sex, 682 00:42:42,821 --> 00:42:45,344 and another showed a man taking pleasure in being cut 683 00:42:45,345 --> 00:42:47,172 with a razor blade during sexual intercourse? 684 00:42:47,173 --> 00:42:49,653 - You can't prove that she saw them. - Can you prove she didn't? 685 00:42:49,654 --> 00:42:52,699 - I done my best for her. - So, were you doing your best for Rose 686 00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:54,788 when you tried to give her away to a complete stranger 687 00:42:54,789 --> 00:42:57,096 - when she was just six weeks old? - I was 16. 688 00:42:57,357 --> 00:42:59,141 It weren't easy stuck on your own with a kid. 689 00:42:59,446 --> 00:43:02,492 What about the time you sold her cot to fund your crystal meth habit? 690 00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:06,105 I had a problem then. I owed money. Rose don't go without now. 691 00:43:06,540 --> 00:43:09,586 Because you work as a prostitute servicing clients from a room 692 00:43:09,587 --> 00:43:11,022 right next door to your daughter's? 693 00:43:11,023 --> 00:43:13,591 - She don't see nothing. - Well, she doesn't hear it? 694 00:43:15,070 --> 00:43:16,767 She doesn't deal with the fallout, 695 00:43:16,768 --> 00:43:19,161 like the time you were beaten senseless by one of your clients? 696 00:43:19,901 --> 00:43:21,859 - That only happened once. - Tell me, 697 00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:24,818 how would you have protected Rose if this particular client had decided 698 00:43:24,819 --> 00:43:26,299 to turn his attentions to her? 699 00:43:27,735 --> 00:43:29,781 - He didn't. - Can you be sure of that? 700 00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:32,347 You were unconscious for quite some time. 701 00:43:32,348 --> 00:43:35,786 In fact, it wasn't until your next client turned up some six hours later 702 00:43:35,787 --> 00:43:38,398 - that an ambulance was called. - Rose was alright. 703 00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:41,879 Rose was four years old. She thought you were dead. 704 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,055 But you don't really care what happens to her, do you? 705 00:43:44,056 --> 00:43:45,970 - It's not true. - You don't care that she's out there 706 00:43:45,971 --> 00:43:47,841 choking the life out of a five-year-old boy 707 00:43:47,842 --> 00:43:50,017 just so long as it doesn't interfere with your habit. 708 00:43:50,018 --> 00:43:51,845 You're making out I'm a bad mum. 709 00:43:51,846 --> 00:43:54,848 I am shouting it loud and clear, Ms. Shaw. You are a terrible mum. 710 00:43:54,849 --> 00:43:58,286 A negligent mum, a mum who hasn't got the first idea how to take care 711 00:43:58,287 --> 00:44:00,462 - of her own child. - She's the one who killed that kiddie, 712 00:44:00,463 --> 00:44:01,942 - not me. - You might as well have done. 713 00:44:01,943 --> 00:44:04,380 Because you raised the child that killed Conor Reid. 714 00:44:04,642 --> 00:44:07,688 You've turned her into exactly what she is, did you not? 715 00:44:17,916 --> 00:44:19,657 No further questions, My Lord. 716 00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:39,894 On the charge of murder, how do you find? 717 00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:42,810 Guilty. 718 00:44:54,300 --> 00:44:55,344 Rose Shaw... 719 00:44:57,259 --> 00:44:59,435 you have been found guilty of murder. 720 00:45:01,176 --> 00:45:03,351 You alone are responsible for the death 721 00:45:03,352 --> 00:45:05,790 of a defenseless five-year-old boy. 722 00:45:08,967 --> 00:45:13,232 What you did to that child is every parent's worst nightmare. 723 00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:20,673 I've heard all I need regarding your state of mind 724 00:45:20,674 --> 00:45:22,720 and the circumstances of your background, 725 00:45:23,721 --> 00:45:27,333 and see no need to wait for further reports before sentencing. 726 00:45:30,597 --> 00:45:34,209 I hereby sentence you to be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure... 727 00:45:35,558 --> 00:45:38,431 with a minimum term of 12 years. 728 00:45:43,653 --> 00:45:44,567 Rose! 729 00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:48,615 Mum! Mum, please! 730 00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:55,230 - Mum, please! - Rose! 731 00:45:58,190 --> 00:45:59,191 Mum! 732 00:46:16,121 --> 00:46:17,818 Will she serve the whole 12 years? 733 00:46:18,732 --> 00:46:21,473 I don't know. Dr. Marsh has agreed to work with her 734 00:46:21,474 --> 00:46:23,084 in the secure unit and... 735 00:46:23,519 --> 00:46:26,043 When she's 15, rest assured 736 00:46:26,044 --> 00:46:29,134 I will personally appeal against her move to prison. 737 00:46:34,095 --> 00:46:35,793 Conor used to sleep in my bed. 738 00:46:37,229 --> 00:46:39,144 I never could settle him into a cot. 739 00:46:40,798 --> 00:46:43,191 In my arms, he'd sleep ten hours straight. 740 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,848 I used to watch him half the night, thinking how lucky I was. 741 00:46:52,766 --> 00:46:55,290 I bet no-one ever looked at Rose Shaw and felt lucky. 742 00:47:01,122 --> 00:47:02,036 Thanks. 61442

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