All language subtitles for A.Better.Man.2017.720p.WEBRip.x264.AAC-[YTS.MX]

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- [Woman] Are you ready?

- [Steve] I don't even
know how to begin, so.

- [Woman] Okay.

- [Attiya] Are you all right?

- [Steve] Mmmm, hm hmm.

- Jenny, you let us
know, start babbling.

Did you say yeah?

Okay.

So the first question
is to describe

the day that we met,

if you remember. (snickering)

- Yeah, I think you were 17.

- [Attiya] 16.

- Really?

- [Attiya] Yeah.

- And I was turning 18?

- [Attiya] Yeah.

- Right.

- [Attiya] Yeah. Right?

A year and a half difference?

- Yeah. You had saucer
eyes for me. (laughing)

It was, it was nice.

I remember you were
wearing all black.

And how I fell for you, yeah.

Just a girl I wanted
to get to know.

And that was it.

I knew I had to be with you.

- You okay?

I mean the reason I asked
the first question is the day

that we met is
because for me that's

the most, it was
a very happy day.

- It was a great day.
- The day we met.

It was an amazing day.

It was the amazing
day I feel like.

- I didn't wanna
let go of that day.

(soft music)

- I didn't think
you'd actually show up

for that first conversation.

(soft music)

I had been shocked
when we started running

into each other in Toronto,

years after I had
escaped from you.

I was still haunted
by the memories

of the time we lived together.

(melodramatic music)

I couldn't believe
you agreed to discuss

the abuse you inflicted on me.

(soft music)

I sensed that the conversation
would be as important

to you as it was for me.

(soft music)

It had been twenty years,

and now I finally had a
chance to get some answers.

(soft music)

Now I know I remember,

within the first
couple weeks, right,

I think may have
been the first time

that any abuse happened.

Like it happened quickly.

Do you remember that?

- No.

- Okay.

Do you remember the first time
of being physically abusive?

- No.

- Okay.

May I ask you if,

had you ever been physically
abusive to anyone before me?

- No. It was,

I was so young then.

- Yeah.

- You know, you were my
first real girlfriend.

(Steve exhales loudly)

- Do you,

do you remember the
frequency of the abuse?

How often or?

- No, I just know
that it wasn't good.

And I don't even know why.

- If you were to think back,

would you be able to
describe the kinds of,

or sort of abuse that
there was, that went on?

- Oh yeah.

That's the stuff that
never leaves your mind.

I remember choking you.

I don't really remember hitting

much but I remember that.

- And do you think
that there's any,

was there anything that
prompted your actions?

Do you know what I mean?

Like did anything, do you
feel like it was something,

like was it something I would do

and then you would get angry

or do you feel like it
was just anger in general?

- I can't remember
there being any,

any specific trigger
or something like that.

I, clearly haven't
remembered this.

- Hmm hmm.

How would you have preferred
the relationship to be?

- Well, we'd still be
together, wouldn't we?

(melodramatic music)

(women greeting each other)

- [Attiya] Alright,
so have a seat.

- [Woman] Thank you.

- Does that make sense to you?

- [Woman] It does.

- Yeah? Great.

I'm gonna give you a
list of numbers actually,

just so you have them in case.

But if you leave me a message,

I'll call you back
on my next shift.

- [Woman] Okay.

- But this is the
Assaulted Woman's Helpline

so you can call them 24 hours,

24 hours a day,

and it's completely
confidential.

So if you're, you know,

I know last time
you left a message,

it was pretty early
in the morning.

- [Woman] Yes.

- [Attiya] Women are
always asked why we stayed.

But I had questions for you.

I wanted to know if the memories

of violence stayed with you.

If you felt as damaged as I did.

But we needed help.

I remember when I asked if
you would see a counselor,

you said that if you could help

even one man not
choose violence,

then it'd be worth it.

- So Steve,

I've seen the footage
of you and Attiya

in terms of that initial
conversation that you had.

I really did have,

you know a number of
questions in terms of,

you know, expressing anger
in a relationship, you know.

There's lots of things to be,

you know, important
things to be angry about.

Injustice, unfairness, you know,

that we should be angry about.

What are your
thoughts about how you

would want to express that?

- That, that is something
that is ongoing.

Um, anger, there's,
um, there's arguments,

there's disagreements,
there's fights,

and then there's a clear
line where there's abuse.

- So if we have a
conversation with Attiya,

you know, and my hunch
is that probably some

of that past relationship issue

that probably still not healed.

What difference do you
think it might make

if we studied some
of that abuse now,

in preparation even for
that kind of conversation?

- What, the insecurity
and where I was?

- Yeah, and some of the behavior

and the choices that got made.

So, looking honestly
at the abuse,

like you're saying.

Are you okay with my
asking about the abuse?

- Yeah.

- Yeah, okay.

What are some of the things
that you remember doing?

What are the things
that stand out for you?

And there's probably
stuff she remembers

and probably stuff you remember.

- We're talking
what exactly I did?

- [Tod] Yeah, yeah.
Were there names?

- Yeah, I'm sure.

- Do you remember what
some of those names were?

- [Steve] Mmmm.

- [Tod] Bitch? Slut?

- I'm absolutely positive
that it got worse

and more colorful than that.

It's funny I...

- [Tod] Did it
include those words?

- Oh absolutely.

But more it's,

the physical stuff I remember.

- [Tod] Alright, can
I ask you about that?

- Sure.

- [Tod] What do you remember?

- Just choking, punching.

- [Tod] Mm hmm.
Choking, punching.

Is there any particular incident
that stands out for you?

- There's plenty.

- Would you be willing to
talk about one of them?

- You know, almost every
instance was unbelievable.

There was one day,

Attiya had fainted.

- Do you know where you were?

- In our place.

These things only take place in,

where you can get away with it,

where it isn't seen.

- And when you say she fainted,

so this was an
incident that happened?

- Absolutely.

- [Tod] Or there was abuse?

- [Steve] Mm hmm.

- Do you remember
how it started?

- Not at all.

You know, these things

come unprovoked.

Most of the time.

- [Tod] Yeah.

And so do you remember what
the conversation was about?

- Actually I don't even remember
there being a conversation.

I just remember myself
acting out and I...

- [Tod] And what did you do?

- I'm trying to actually
figure that out right now.

I think I woke up
and I don't know

if there's words said or what,

but I remember just
tossing her off the bed.

And, um...

- [Tod] So when you say
tossing her off the bed,

did you, how did you grab her?

- It was just like that.

- What's your thoughts
about what was going on

through your mind at that point?

- Well, obviously I never
want it to happen again.

Um, how do I make up for this?

How do I make it right?

- [Tod] What were
some of the things

that you tried to do to?

- It's strange, you know.

I always tried the best I could

within our means back
then to show appreciation.

But it all becomes null and void

the second you get angry again.

So it just cancels
out everything

so you start from ground zero,

over and over again.

And a matter of fact,
it just gets worse.

- Right.

'Cause what were you
realizing afterwards

were the effects of
what you were doing?

- (deep exhale) Well,

the last thing you really want,

and it's really
weird with control,

is that you don't want
someone scared of you

but at the same
time with control,

it's, when you slip
into it, you do.

- [Tod] So you can
acknowledge that?

- Yeah.

- [Tod] In terms of
her being scared?

- Absolutely.

- [Tod] Yeah, yeah.

Was that something that you
were willing to acknowledge,

you know, back then?

- Not initially.

- [Tod] What's it like for
you to acknowledge that,

you know, she was afraid of you?

- I can't be happy with that.

- When you look back,

what were some of the
justifications and excuses

that got you acting, you
know, against your values?

- Well, after an
event you would always

allow yourself to think about
it but not enough to refrain.

- [Tod] Yeah.

So you'd feel some
shame afterwards?

- Of course.

- [Tod] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it's not of course,
but it is for you.

It's not a given.

- No, that's when
you start trying

to make up for lost ground or

or over make up for lost ground,

you start treating the
person, you know...

- [Tod] Kind of like the hallow

promises and the apologies,

that kind of stuff?

- Yeah. Yeah.

- [Tod] And what were some
of those that you did?

- Well, of course that
things will change or

that, you know, it
won't happen again.

And of course they do.

But what's interesting is
that when I say these things,

at that moment I really
want those things.

Like, who doesn't wanna be
in a healthy relationship?

So I don't understand
that cycle for me.

(soft music)

(melodramatic music)

- [Attiya] I remember
that last time you hit me.

The last time anyone hit me.

I had just finished
working a shift in a club,

you had been watching
me all night.

I remember feeling your
hands around my neck.

I remember thinking,

this is so unfair 'cause I
had just left you for good

a few days before.

The violence was
supposed to stop.

(melodramatic music)

I thought, how am
I supposed to work

until 2 in the morning,

be stalked, hit, and strangled,

and wake up for school
the next morning?

But then I realized
I could do it,

'cause I'd been doing it every
day for the past two years.

And with that thought,

I pushed you off me,

kicked off my heals and ran.

(intense music)

- So Attiya,

Steve and I have been talking
already, in conversation.

A lot of that conversation
focused around

what's important to
Steve and Steve's values,

and also, you know, wanting to

take responsibility for the
harms that were done to you

in your relationship
20 years ago.

And sometimes people
who have been harmed

find it helpful to
actually have acknowledged

what those harms were and to
actually speak about that.

Is there a particular incident
that stands out for you?

- Well, the first
thing I think of is

in our first conversation,

I brought up an
incident that happened

and at the time Steve
didn't fully remember it.

And it's one of the incidents

that kind of sticks in my mind.

It was just sort of
one of those days

when you wake up and the
abuse started right away,

and throughout the entire day.

You know, I feel like
it got to a point

where it didn't escalate,

it just happened,

and it was just bad immediately.

I mean, I remember mostly
just a lot of swearing,

right, a lot of fuck you.

- What would he say,
fuck you, what else?

- I feel like I don't
remember the words entirely.

But, you know, I
remember at one point,

I'm trying to remember
the set-up of our,

that apartment on Stirling.

But I remember there being,

I don't know if it was
a closet or something

in that main room where...

- (clearing throat)
There was a shelf.

- There was a shelf.

- Yeah.

- I remember being
against that wall

and just being, like
on the ground and,

yeah, Steve punching
me and hitting me

and I was down
already and crying.

Like it felt very, it was
common, let's just say.

So at that point I just remember

defending myself
and just being like,

this is how life is now so,

you know, curl up,
defend your, you know,

I remember always trying
to protect my head.

And, um,

you know I remember, you
know, I'd be crying and,

the thing about
this incident was,

remember I had that
heart-shaped jewelry box?

- I do.

- The little glass one.

And I don't remember
who gave it to me

but I didn't have very many
things and it was special.

And I remember you grabbed it

and threw it against
the wall and it smashed,

and I remember
just being dragged

across that glass
and that's where...

- Cut your knee.

- [Attiya] The knee...

- Were you afraid?

- I was afraid, yes.

- [Tod] What were you afraid of?

- I mean, I was afraid,

I was afraid I'd
never get out of it,

you know, the abuse
wouldn't stop.

I was afraid that...

- [Tod] And therefore what?

- That I'd be killed.

I thought I was gonna die.

- [Tod] What was
it like living with

that day after day?

- (deep exhale) You know,
it was, it was very,

it was hopeless.

It felt hopeless.

But there, yeah, I just felt
like there was nothing that,

there was nothing that
I could do about it

and it was just
a matter of time.

- [Tod] Steve, I'm wondering
if you'd be willing

to say what you
hear Attiya saying

in terms of what her
experience of that was.

- She was terrified of me

and she thought
she was gonna die.

- [Tod] Why don't you tell her?

- You were terrified of me.

You thought you were gonna die.

- [Practitioner] Bring
awareness to the throat,

the neck, the jaw,

right cheek, left cheek,

the nose and tip of the nose.

Right eye, left eye,

the forehead,

crown of the head,

the whole head,

the whole face,

the whole front of the body,

the whole body.

(soft music)

Inhaling

and exhaling.

Five, four, three.

- I am so angry at times,

but I'm afraid that if
I say the wrong thing

you'll get up and leave.

I feel sorry for
you and then guilty,

as if I am excusing
the horrific violence

you had subjected me to.

(melodramatic music)

You're cute.

(coat zipper zipping)

- [Elliot] Thank you.

- [Attiya] All right, so
you have the rest of them?

- Yeah, they're in my pocket.

- [Attiya] I kind of
want it higher, though.

Sorry. (laughing)

There you go.

I'll see you soon.

- [Husband] See you soon.

(lips smacking)

- [Attiya] Bye love.

- [Elliot] Bye mom.

- [Attiya] See you soon.

- [Elliot] Okay.

- [Attiya] Bye.

- [Husband] Bye.

- [Elliot] Bye.

- [Elliot] I'm just gonna count.

- [Dad] You're just gonna count?

- [Elliot] Yeah.

- [Dad] You don't
wanna hand them out?

- [Elliot] No, I don't.

- [Dad] Are you sure you
don't wanna hand them out?

- [Elliot] Yeah.

- [Dad] Did you come
to the vigil last year

or no you didn't?

- [Elliot] What's that?

- [Dad] A vigil is

basically a way of
remembering people who died.

- [Elliot] No.

- [Dad] I think this
is probably Michael.

Hi, yes, how are you?

Hi there. It's a
White Ribbon Campaign,

it's men's action to end
violence against women.

Thanks very much.

It's the White Ribbon Campaign,

it's men's action to end
violence against women.

Sir, can I interest
you a white ribbon?

It's the campaign
of men speaking out

against violence against women.

(man whistling)

Hi Sir. It's the
White Ribbon Campaign,

it's men speaking out against
violence against women.

Just raising awareness.

Just showing support basically

against violence against women.

Thanks so much.

- [Elliot] 30. You got 30 dad!

(melodramatic music)

- So just catch me up.

You were being dragged
across the floor.

- [Attiya] Hm hmm.

- [Tod] Yeah.

Were you yelling during
that time, or screaming?

- I don't think so.

- I don't think so.

I think I was silent, you know.

- [Tod] Right, terrified.

- Uh-huh.

- [Tod] And then what happened?

- I remember sort of,

I remember being
dragged to the bed and,

you know, hit more.

- [Tod] How were you being hit?

- Like punched.

- [Tod] Where were
you being punched?

- In the face.

- [Tod] How many
times do you think

you were being
punched in the face?

- A lot.

- [Tod] And then what
happened in this incident?

- So our faces were
really close and I was,

I remember just being done.

I just felt bruised everywhere,

I felt limp, I had no energy.

And I'm lying there
and I'm thinking,

please stop.

Just please stop.

Stop. I can't,

I don't think my body
can do this anymore.

And, and then I
just remember boom!

You know, and you
head-butted me.

And I remember that's when
I think I kind of was,

when I was unconscious.

And then I remember waking up.

And then I do
remember you crying,

you know, and saying
you were sorry.

But in that moment when I opened
my eyes up and I was done,

I remember saying,

I don't know what I said to
you but I may have just said,

fuck, Steve.

Right, like I think
I was just, fuck.

Like you can't do
this to me anymore.

- [Tod] Had Steve ever
said he's sorry before?

- Yeah, he would say
he's sorry after.

- [Tod] What was it like hearing

Steve say he was sorry?

- By this point,

it didn't really have meaning.

It was, I mean, I
remember, like in my mind

I can picture being
there and it's just like,

you're just kind of like,

you're rolling your
eyes and you're like,

come on.

It's almost like you know,
you're not fooling me.

You're not sorry.

- Would you be
angry to hear that?

- [Attiya] Mm hmm, mm hmm.

- [Tod] What was
the anger about?

- Well, it's like

someone's apologizing to
you while laughing at you,

(laughing) you know?

It's like it doesn't have any,

it doesn't, it does
have meaning actually,

but it's not that you're sorry.

It's confusing.

At the time I remember thinking,

well, if you're sorry, stop.

It's easy to say but
that's, you know,

just stop.

- [Tod] Who's
responsible for Steve

continuing to hit you?

- Steve.

It wasn't necessarily that
I thought I was responsible

but I thought, as
I was saying it,

like fuck, Steve,
this has got to,

I knew that he wouldn't
be pleased with that.

But you have to
stand up somehow and,

and that was maybe what
I was trying to do.

But I also really wanted
it to stop, right?

And you have to have
a voice somehow,

at certain points.

And this was bad.

I had nothing, I was,

there was nothing left really,

in terms of energy and,

you know this was my
first real relationship

and we're living together

and we're 17.

- Yeah, that too.

- And I didn't know what a good,

like I knew this wasn't good

but I just thought,
this is how life is.

This is what happens.

This is what your boyfriend does

and defend yourself and hope

that you don't get
hurt too much and hope

that maybe you can
de-escalate it.

- [Tod] What are you hearing
in what Attiya's saying?

- You don't remember, do you?

- It makes sense now, the glass,

the heart-shaped glass thing.

I don't recall throwing it.

I remember you
cutting your knee.

And at that junction,

I remember carrying
you to the hospital.

I don't remember how much anger

and how twisted it was.

- [Tod] Can you
handle her talking

about those kind of details?

- Yeah.

- So then he head-butted you?

- [Attiya] Hmm hmm.

- And what happened next?

- I got up to try and get away.

And at that point,
like I was really weak

and so it didn't,
it didn't take much,

right, to, I just had no energy
to be able to keep running.

And so I remember just
stopping and looking at him.

And then he turned me around

and that's when, you know,

you gave me the sleeper.

- [Tod] Steve, do
you remember that?

Can I ask you about that?

What do you mean by the sleeper?

- It's where you
put your hands on,

it's strangling
until you pass out.

Oh god.

So it was just something
that was easy to do

at a certain point and,

you know when you've
had that done a lot

it doesn't actually take
much to have you pass out.

And my neck was so
swollen and used to it

that it would just,

you'd go like this and
I would faint, you know.

- [Tod] What's it
like to recall that?

- Fuck, I hate that one.

I just hate it.

(disbelieving laugh)
Oh god, oh god.

(big exhale) It's the form
of violence that I feel like,

it's very symbolic,
you know, right?

Like when someone has
their hands around you,

like your life is
literally in their hands.

And I always thought, fuck,
this is the way I'm gonna die.

And I always wondered like,

who did that to you?

I always thought someone
must have done that to you,

you know, to do it to me.

You don't have to answer,

it's always something that

I've wondered, you
know, to have something

that's so violent
but so easily used.

- Steve, do you remember that?

- (clearing throat) I do now.

My recollection was I
tossed you off the bed

and you passed out.

You cut your knee.

I carried you to the hospital.

It's much worse than that.

What you're reminding me
of is the level of anger.

Not quite hate, but anger.

- [Attiya] Hmm hmm.

- When you look back
at it as an adult,

what were you taking
out on Attiya?

- Absolutely everything.

- [Tod] And what was everything?

Had you experienced violence?

- Mm hmm, yeah.

- [Tod] Do you think there's
any relationship between

that experience and
what was going on there?

- Definitely.

- [Tod] Can you just speak
to that for a second?

- It's an incapacity to
deal with your own feelings

in a productive way.

It's just explosive

and it always happens to the
one that's closest to you.

And not with you,

it's most about my experience

before I came to live with you.

- [Attiya] Hmm hmm.

- [Tod] And what did you
hear her say about her neck?

- (deep exhale) That
is was already swollen,

that I had probably done it,

and I had done it,

many, many times.

- [Tod] Do you think
Steve is picking up

some of what your experience is?

I mean it's resonating with some

of his own experiences
of being hurt.

Do you think he's getting
what you're talking about?

- I do, yeah.

Like I knew that I
kind of came here

and I really wanted to
talk about this incident.

And, um, I mean it's one that,

well, it's also because
for the longest time

it's the one that
I would you know,

one of the ones that I
would have nightmares about,

you know, or that I
was the most afraid of.

And I think I wanna
let this incident go.

(soft music)

- [Practitioner]
Okay, well things

have certainly
settled down nicely.

(soft music)

- [Attiya] There are some things

I can't bring myself to ask you.

The way you called me ugly,

a Paki, you had a
thousand ways to say

how deserving I
was of being hit,

spit on, made fun of
because I was brown.

There are some
hurts that stay deep

and hidden in the body.

(soft music)

- [Attiya] Hi!

- [Seth] Good to see ya!

- [Attiya] Good to see you.

How are you doing?

Seth entered my life
when you and I were close

to the end of our relationship.

- It's a bit of a walk.

- Like how long?

My memories of this
time are unclear.

I needed to know
what he remembered.

To ask why he had intervened,

when no one else did.

- [Seth] I think
the crazy thing,

and I mean you've said this,

is that to people
that didn't know,

he was a really nice guy.

- [Attiya] Yes.

- [Seth] Like he seemed totally
normal and friendly and,

and fun, and so I think we
did get along in that sense.

- [Attiya] Well, he
could be that, right?

I think that's
part of the point.

- Part of the whole
thing at that time was

me and my friends were
always just kind of

wanting to be heroes,

we wanted to be super heroes.

And like you were this
person who seemed,

and was, like totally sweet
and seemed very just innocent,

and there were just so many
horrible things happening.

And so initially
it was just like

this is a great opportunity
to like help somebody.

- So there came a point

where you decided to
hang out with him,

and it was kind of like a plan.

Is that right?

- Yeah, I thought it was,

there were times when

we worked out that you
needed to do something

or you just needed time so

we would try to
hang out with Steve

to give you time on your
own or something like that.

- [Attiya] Once
we started dating,

I feel like we didn't
talk about Steve and I

and what had happened.

- [Seth] I remember
it being a big

component of what
happened. (laughing)

- Okay.

I mean in a way I think
you have the most details

in terms of like
when it was happening

and when we first
got together, right,

about what actually happened.

- I didn't know how to help you.

- [Attiya] Right.

- (laughing) I didn't know
what to do with any of that.

- But I think what you,

who you were helped me, right?

'Cause you were like

super loving and
caring and gentle.

(laughing) In a way I
don't know how you put

up with me right after that.

- For me, it was hard to be,

'cause I didn't have,

like now I think
I have more skills

on how to be there to listen

and try not to fix, but
just try to be there.

And I think I kind
of did that 'cause,

I don't know, I cared about you

and that's about all I could do.

But, uh, I don't know.

- Which was huge, right, to
be listened to considering,

you know, when I was with
Steve I couldn't talk, right?

I wasn't heard,

I didn't have any voice.

So I think, I mean,

when I look back on it the
truth is like I see you,

you know, and your group
of friends, you know,

like you guys actually
saved me, you know.

Like I don't,

if you hadn't come into my life,

like I actually
think I'd be dead.

(train whistling)

(melodramatic music)

(telephone ringing)

- [Husband] Hey Babe.

- [Attiya] Hi love.

- [Husband] How are you doing?

- [Attiya] I'm a
bit, um, you know,

anxious about going tomorrow.

Steve and I are
gonna kinda check out

the apartments basically,

both places that we
lived in together.

- [Husband] When's the
last time you were at the,

at those apartments?

- [Attiya] I think
I was with you.

- [Husband] So that would
have been the summer

before we got married.

That would have been

a little more than a decade ago.

- [Attiya] Okay. Wow!

- [Husband] So that's
a long time ago.

- [Attiya] Yeah, and did
we got to both apartments?

- [Husband] I think we
only went to one apartment.

- Okay, yeah. That
was the first place

that Steve and I lived at

once we had left mom's place.

We're gonna actually
go in the school.

That'll be interesting.

Yeah, I remember everything,

but I don't remember the school.

I think it's 'cause
when I was there

it was just like I
wasn't really there.

I was always kind of thinking
about other things and,

yeah, it's just, blah.

- [Husband] Yeah.

- Yeah, alright babe.

Well, I'll talk
with you tomorrow.

And you can call me
in the morning if, or

if Elliot wants to talk
with me in the morning

give me a ring.

- [Husband] Okay, we'll
call you tomorrow.

- Okay, love.

- [Husband] Okay,
sleep well, love you.

- Love you too.

- [Husband] Bye.

- Bye.

(melodramatic music)

- [Steve] Wooo, you can start
to get the feeling already.

- [Attiya] (large
exhale) Yeah, the...

- [Steve] The building...

- That's Stirling.
That's Stirling!

- With the houses all,

looks about right.

You can kind of see it,
remember this already.

- That wasn't there,
the little park.

It's cute.

I wish some of this stuff
was here when we lived here.

(clears throat)

Are you cool with starting here?

- I'll leave my bag.

- [Attiya] Okay.
You're gonna leave it?

- [Steve] Yeah.

- I think I'll leave mine too.

I'll just grab my,

I don't know.

I'm gonna bring this.

(deep breathing)

Shall we?

- Yeah.

- [Attiya] Yeah.

(melodramatic music)

It was brick, right?

- [Steve] It certainly was.

(soft music)

It's all new.

- [Attiya] It's like
they just slapped

that stuff over, right?

- [Steve] Yeah.

- [Attiya] And this
was just vacant.

Have you ever come back here?

- Never, no.

- I came back like
I think twice,

just, you know, to see it.

I remember sometimes
this is where I would sit

if I ran out or whatever,

or had to get out.

And I would just sit here.

And what I can't stand
even more is like,

like... I don't know.

For me I remember all
like bungalow houses there

but I remember
just like escaping.

- [Steve] It was a purple house.

- It was a purple house, right?

And I remember I'd
like run out the door,

run that way, and no
one would help, right.

And like I remember, I
actually remember people,

well, one house specifically
closing their curtains,

you know, when I was like
yelling and screaming for help,

I'd just run and no one,

no one on this
street ever helped.

You would think though
like that one person

on the entire street
would have helped.

We should probably go
soon but I think I might.

- Yeah?

- [Attiya] I think
I'm gonna puke.

- For real?

- [Attiya] I'm gonna go to
the side of the building.

- Are you serious?

- Yeah I feel like
I'm gonna throw up.

- [Steve] Do you want to just?

- [Attiya] Oh god,
yeah, the side.

(Steve clears throat)

(Attiya deep breathing)

- [Steve] Attiya?

- [Attiya] I'm trying
to make it come up.

- [Steve] I know, I know.

Do you mind me being here?

- [Attiya] No, no, not at all,

(heavy breathing)

Did you just,

do you block that
place out of your mind?

Or have you ever
thought about it?

- I think about it but,

for the most part
I block it out.

- For me, I think
the biggest thing is,

oh (large exhale)

even though I felt
like I was gonna puke,

it's like there's
something about going back

with you and seeing that
place and feeling safe.

You know, it's
like a different...

- I never thought about that.

- Yeah.

- It didn't dawn on me.

- So for me it's
like huge, right,

to be able to go

stand there with you
and know that I'm safe.

- I'll probably
never come back here.

(heavy footsteps)

- [Attiya] We had to leave
Stirling, is that the deal?

- [Steve] Oh yeah.

- [Attiya] Yeah, okay.

- [Steve] We didn't have to
leave but we chose to leave.

We were moving into a
situation with a roommate.

- [Attiya] Oh yeah.

- [Steve] I took that as

an opportunity to
put us in a situation

where I couldn't act out.

Shit, would that be our bedroom?

- [Attiya] Yeah,
that's the bedroom.

- [Steve] Does this
place get to you?

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't,

not in the same way in that
the other apartment does,

but, again, I think
for me it was the whole

like we came here,

I didn't realize that you had,

that's interesting to me

that you were also really
hopeful moving here

because someone else would be

in the house with
us and we thought...

- Yeah, I just wanted someone
to keep things in check.

- Right.

- [Steve] Right.

- And I mean I can't,

obviously a lot of
abuse happened here

but, for me, I had to like,

what it meant, it's
just that I had to

try and be quiet about it,

do you know what I mean?

Like you had to...

- Back to that...

- I had to,

I tried not to make it sound
like there was violence.

- I don't remember
much from here.

(melodramatic music)

I think our lockers
were right around here.

Oh, actually just right here.

- [Attiya] Really?

- [Steve] Yeah.

In this section.

- [Attiya] We had them together?

- [Steve] Yeah.

- I was never in this classroom.

I remember you
being in this one.

Did you get along with him?

- [Steve] Very well.

- Yeah, I remember that

there was one teacher that
you really got along with.

- He would, I remember
the first day I came in

I was late

and he kind of berated me

and I really shot back at him.

But during class, you know,

I realized that
respect is respect

and I interrupted the
class and I apologized.

And from that point forward he

had quite a great degree
of respect for me.

- [Attiya] Huh.

- But going forward
he actually also knew

what was going on.

- He did?

- Yeah, yeah.

- How do you know that?

- We would talk about it.

- Oh wow.

- Yeah.

- So do you remember actually
like learning stuff here?

- Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I did, I did my best here.

- Huh.

See I have no,

I don't remember
learning a thing.

But for me I guess it
was different, right,

'cause I was just,

like I, to look at,
like I never looked up

in this school, right?

I was always looking
down 'cause I was afraid

that you'd see me looking
up at someone or, right?

- [Steve] Oh boy.

- So, right?

So I'd have to leave
class, look down,

and just go and try
not to talk to anybody,

see anybody.

I would hope that
no one that we knew

would talk with
me going to class.

And then in class I
wouldn't concentrate

and I'd just be thinking,

like where's the next class?

And, you know, are
you gonna follow me?

Am I gonna look up at the
wrong time at somebody?

So for me when I come
here I'm just like, whoa,

this is what it looks like?

- [Steve] Yeah.

- I had no...

- And that's just
nuts for me to hear.

Because I would think
you'd feel that way at home

but not out here.

- Right, yeah.

I mean in one way
for me this was like

a place where I
could just be, right,

'cause nothing violent ever
happened here that I remember,

'cause it felt safe to me.

Even though I was constantly
looking over my shoulder,

I mean the whole time,

and not necessarily comfortable

but at least I felt a
sense of, like it was a,

I just, my body felt safe here,

you know, as a way to kinda
come down a little bit.

Should we go downstairs
or do you wanna?

- [Steve] Sure, yeah.

- We can go back
that way if you want.

- This should put us in
the front again I think.

- [Attiya] Okay, let's check.

(heavy footsteps)

There was this assumption
that we were drinking

and doing drugs, we weren't.

- It would make it
maybe more palatable

to think that maybe we
were, I was being unruly

because I was maybe
doing drugs and drinking.

- Right.

- I don't know, but
that's not the case.

- No.

- I, I got there on my own.

- [Attiya] Right, huh.

I actually came back here.

- Okay.

- [Attiya] 'Cause I wanted
to come see the guidance

counselor and just say thank...

- Was she here?

- She was here.

And, you know, she hugged
me and asked about you.

And I thanked her
'cause I said, you know,

what you did, even
just to talk to someone

who seemed to care was
really huge for us.

And I said how much even
just getting bus tickets

or whatever, you know, how that

really affected our lives.

And, and then this
teacher walked in

and she looked at me.

She was like oh!
I recognize you!

And she said, "I've always
wondered what happened to you.

"I know when you were here
things were really hard."

And I said...

- [Steve] See, it was like
universally known almost.

- [Attiya] And I said,
"Well what does that mean?

"Like things were hard,
like what did you see?"

- Yeah.

- [Attiya] Right?

And she's like well, I
know, like I saw bruises

on you all the time.

And I said, "Did
you, I don't remember

"us ever having a
conversation about that."

And she just kinda looked at me.

And I was like, no, I just,

I don't remember, did we?

And she was like no.

And I wasn't gonna,
you know, I just.

- [Steve] Enough said, yeah.

- That's all, yeah.

And, then I just said, "You
know what, I'm doing good."

And she was like that's great.

And then I,

like that was it, it was
a really short meeting.

- [Steve] Running's interesting.

You can forget in, in the
moment, kind of, sort of.

You know, you can drink,

you can high, you can
do a lot of things,

but everything is
always waiting for you,

you know.

And you deal with
it a little bit,

and then you start
running again.

And so you just
can procrastinate

and it's just like dealing
with it is ongoing,

you know?

- [Attiya] I think there's
a lot going on with you

and I feel like there's a lot,

yeah, I just think
there's a lot more

that you have to say

but you don't feel safe or
comfortable coming forward yet.

I don't know if that's true
but that's what I'm feeling.

- Oh there's probably
some truth to that.

- [Attiya] The details.

Do you know what I mean?

- Yeah.

- [Attiya] And, and I don't
just mean the abuse, right.

Like just details.

- I really just
want you to be okay

and I don't know where
you are with that.

So? You wanna eat?

- Hungry?

- [Steve] Yeah, you wanna eat?

- Okay, let's do it.

(melodramatic music)

So there's Zaphod's, right?

- [Steve] Really?

- [Attiya] Did you
go to Zaphod's?

- [Steve] We went a few times.

- [Attiya] We did?

- [Steve] Mm hmm.

- [Attiya] I think we sat,

so this was the
day we met, right?

We came here for lunch
and I think that...

- [Steve] We sat
in the back there?

- But then we'd come here.

- We've come,

Yeah, we came here
afterwards, yeah.

- [Attiya] But look,
everyone's like young in there.

It's what you,

it's what you do.

It's so pretty, eh?

I don't remember it
being that pretty.

(melodramatic music)

I wish I had said more.

How can you not remember abusing
me every day in that house?

But I needed you to
be the one to say it.

Maybe you felt that
it wasn't your right.

But I know that deep
down you remember.

(melodramatic music)

- So Steve,

when Attiya first approached
you with this project,

you know, what
were you thinking?

- I was prepared to be called
out for things, events.

- And how come you were
signing up for that?

- Simply because I felt that,

I have an opportunity,

to facilitate some healing,

to help that process.

And I'm healing as well.

- When you think
about, you know,

your experience before Attiya,

what was the relationship
between some of

those experiences
and some of the ideas

that came off of that?

So for example,

it's not uncommon
for many of the guys

that I work with to
have been, you know,

violated in their youth
and then enter in.

And part of what
they learn about

that is that close relationships
aren't safe, you know.

And so part of what they
pull into their relationships

is needing to protect themselves

'cause they're gonna get hurt.

And so part of that
protection becomes a wall.

Is there a relationship
between what happened

to you before the age of 18

and the choices that you made

when you were in your
relationship with Attiya?

- To some degree, yeah, yeah.

I think that this might
be as far as I'll take it,

but I think some things occurred

with me that got me so
frustrated and angry,

that even when those things
didn't occur in my life anymore

I was so frustrated and angry

and I brought that with me.

So, you know, these
instances did occur,

it's just that I didn't
have the capacity

to let it go at that age.

You know?

- [Tod] So injustices
that you experienced?

- Yeah.

- So there's different ideas
in our culture around justice.

What are your ideas around,

in terms of making things
right in this situation

and what does that mean to you?

- I think,

to be honest I don't wanna even

flirt with the idea of justice

unless Attiya was sitting here.

- [Tod] Just say
more about that.

- I wanna know if she feels

that justice has taken place

and whatever definition
she has of that.

- [Tod] Why is that
important to you?

- That is when you
can pack things up

and leave it in a
place behind you

where you can start
owning your life again

as opposed to I'm an
abuser, I'm a victim.

- [Husband] Do you
want any more coffee?

- [Attiya] I'm okay,

thank you.

- [Husband] When should
we wake Elliot up?

- [Attiya] I think we
should just let him sleep.

(soft music)

- [Husband] Are you stressed
about the party, or no?

- Uh, no, surprisingly.

I don't have any stress left.

- [Husband] Do you
think of it as a party?

- [Attiya] I do, it is.

Every year I commemorate my
anniversary away from you.

Some years it's been as
simple as lighting a candle.

This year it's something more.

(melodramatic music)

What do you think about Steve?

What are your general thoughts?

- I'm actually not sure how
to answer that question,

you know?

Naturally I would be angry
with anybody who hurt you.

I mean, if someone
were to hurt now

I'd be very angry with them.

But I also think I thought,

what's the point of my
being angry with him

and basically deferring to
your judgment about Steve?

But I'm also not

applauding him for participating
in this process in a way.

You know, I think
I would be actually

quite angry if he
withdrew from the process.

I feel like he at
least owes you this.

And you've actually created
an opportunity for him

to help other people

and to actually make
his life better,

that he wouldn't otherwise have.

- So Steve, Attiya,

we've been talking about
some of the effects

of the choices that you made.

So Steve, what
your thoughts about

Attiya being angry
still at those choices

that you made at the same time

she's being, you know,
compassionate with you?

- It's absolutely reasonable.

It's, I'm angry that
I made poor choices.

You know, but it would
have been interesting

to see where it went
without those choices.

- I'm just curious,

before we started having
these conversations,

did you think about
what I thought of you,

like over the, the time?

- For sure, yeah.

No, I was an absolute
asshole, monster.

Right?

The worst thing that's
happened in your life.

- You know, I mean I've
always wondered if,

you know, you stopped
to think like wow,

I wonder how Attiya is or

how she's deal, how she dealt...

- Always, always.

But even if I thought that,

just even trying to
reach out to you,

do you even wanna try
and reach out to someone

that you've put
in that position?

Is she gonna feel threatened?

Is it gonna set all
kinds of triggers off?

I just had to leave that be

and try and deal with
it the best I could.

- I'm wondering what you
think was influencing

your choices to, you know,

use violence against Attiya
when you were younger?

If you could talk about...

- Why I feel I chose violence?

- [Tod] Yeah, what were some of

the things that were
going on for you?

- I was, (embarrassed sigh)

I was so desperate to be in
a supportive relationship.

As dysfunctional as it is

I used violence to keep
you exactly where you were,

beside me.

- So you wouldn't lose me?

- Yeah, and in doing
so I was losing you.

I was just obviously
gonna do anything

to keep you at my side,

regardless of how
manipulative that was.

- What's it like for
both of you to talk about

the context of your
relationship back then?

- I guess it's
just, (deep exhale)

well, some of it is just,

I was never believed, right,

and so that it was that bad.

Or even within our relationship,

like at times I just
thought that I was crazy.

And so to be able
to hear you kind of

even say, you know, Attiya,

I'm starting to
remember some of these

things that you're
talking about,

it just gives it credibility,

like it did happen.

'Cause sometimes I would just
question myself, like really?

Was it, did that happen?

Was it that bad?

And now that we're
acknowledging this

and talking about it,

I can move past that

to kind of think
about the full story.

But I think that had to
happen to get here, I think.

- Right, yeah.

Yeah, we had to unearth
a lot of stuff, right?

- [Attiya] Yeah.

- And for me it was difficult,

because not only am I
doing this with you,

I'm doing it in a public forum.

But, you know,

I stand knowing that I'm
doing the right thing,

and everything
else is secondary.

So, you know, am
I being truthful?

Am I being honest?

Am I being sincere?

You know, you're my
barometer on that.

(melodramatic music)

- This is very hard for me

and I feel like I can't
find my words. (laughing)

But what I do want to tell you

'cause I haven't spoken
to or seen so many of you,

is that I'm actually
doing okay. (laughing)

(soft music)

Hey!

- [Woman] Hello,
how are you doing?

(soft music)

If you look across the room,

one woman among two,

so the ratio one to two women,

has experienced a
variation of physical,

emotional, sexual,

and whatever gamut or the
continuum of violence.

And that's a sad fact.

I mean we can look
at it as statistics,

but that's a really sad fact.

- So,

(melodramatic music)

on July 20th, it was
the last time he hit me,

it was the last time
he strangled me,

it's the last time he
dragged me by my hair.

I wouldn't have been able
to say that three years ago

and for me it's
really important,

for people to hear
the real story.

I feel like for the first time,

in ever that I'm healing.

And that also isn't
something I expected

during this process in
sitting down with him.

I'm so happy that
I've been able to

take this date and replace it

with something that is
so fantastic like this

and to have all you
here to support me,

to listen to my story, to learn.

What I've learned the most is

that we really
need to be talking

about this in a public way.

This is not what I
want everyone to do,

is go back to their abusive ex

and have conversations, right?

But that's what
it's doing for me

and I didn't expect
that from this.

And that's kind of awesome.

I'll do this first
piece and then I'll...

And I do actually
wanna say a thank you

to Steve for doing this,

the hardest thing that
he may have ever done,

or ever will do.

And I think it's just happy
23rd anniversary today!

(laughing and cheering)

Thank you everyone, again.

Thanks for listening
and thanks for sharing.

You gave me more
than I expected.

The old Steve would never
have listened to me,

or taken responsibility,

but this is not the end,

for us, or for so many others.

There's so much more to say.

♪ Put your words into the fire

♪ Watch them burn
your heart's desires

♪ Rise up in the air

♪ In a cloud of silk
and smoke and dust

♪ Fade into the night

♪ It's a comforting
feeling with you by my side

♪ Let me shake your honest hands

♪ And I'll sit
down beside you now

♪ Lean our heavy heads

♪ Of the weight of the
things that are left unsaid

♪ Don't worry about it now

♪ 'Cause in the
morning they will

♪ All just be
ashes on the ground

♪ So what's been on your mind

♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo

♪ Eating you inside

♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo

♪ Taking all of your time

♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo

♪ On this warm summer night

♪ Put your words
down in the fire

♪ When we were
down at sandy beach

♪ Old man talking
in young man's words

♪ Tell me where you
would like to be

♪ Tonight don't
be afraid to dream

♪ Lean on the fire for a while

♪ Cause in the morning it will

♪ All just be
ashes on the ground

♪ So what's been on your mind

♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo

♪ Eating you inside

♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo

♪ Taking all of your time

♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo

♪ On this warm summer night

♪ Put those words
down in the fire ♪