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This programme contains
strong language and adult themes.
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Oh, there they are.
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00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,120
After Leigh's death,
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I came across lots of letters which
she'd written to her children.
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It shocked me to the core
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that a mother could write a letter
like that to her daughter.
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One day in 2015...
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..I received a letter from the UK.
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On the front it says:
"Thinking of You."
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I opened it...
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and there was a picture
of a phoenix.
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00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720
"Like the phoenix
I will arise from the ashes,
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"and sleep will obey me
and visit thee never,
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"for my eyes are upon thee
forever and ever.
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"I have served my life sentence
of shame and blame.
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"Now it's your turn
to suffer the same."
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"Your nemesis, Leigh Sabine."
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What the fuck?
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Who says that sh...?
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It really does make you think,
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what was going on in her mind
when she wrote these things?
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It seems it didn't take very much
to incur her wrath.
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Anyone who crossed her
was in danger.
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Every homicide is unique, but in
this case it was absolutely bizarre.
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00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,720
So, we have an unidentified,
freshly-killed male body.
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May have been there for weeks,
possibly months,
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00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,640
who's died from a blow to the head.
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00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,680
At this point in the investigation,
Leigh Sabine is the prime suspect.
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Leigh had died three weeks
before the body was found.
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00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,600
She didn't fit the profile
of a killer,
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00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,400
but forensic examination of the
packaging wrapped around the body
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found a piece of hair that was
a positive match for Leigh Sabine,
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linking her to the murder.
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00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,040
Now, I had reasonable grounds
to forensically examine her flat
35
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,360
to see if there was any evidence
of a violent attack,
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to prove if the killer
is Leigh Sabine.
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I attended the scene to look for
any forensics at all.
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Hair, fibres, blood, fingerprints.
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We looked everywhere.
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00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,280
Skirting boards, architraving,
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behind cupboards,
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the boiler in the kitchen.
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00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,080
Even the DNA team looked
under the floorboards for blood.
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00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,920
We knew that the property
had been steam cleaned,
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and that a lot of the furniture
had been given away
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to neighbours and friends.
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I had the hoover.
48
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Rhian had some jewellery.
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00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,680
Another friend, she had a frog,
50
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,800
which was a weight for a door.
51
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,160
We cleaned the place up really well.
52
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,240
You've got to keep searching
for that evidence.
53
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,440
It is like finding a needle
in a haystack.
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If you're charging me with assault,
he says to my mother...
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He gave them...
Come on, Jane.
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00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,160
After I was charged
with assault on my mother,
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the shit hit the fan,
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00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,400
and my parents disappeared again.
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Are you their mother?
No, I'm not their mother,
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and I've answered that one before.
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My mum says to Marty and I,
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"We can't keep living like this.
We're all going to the UK.
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"We've got air fares,
we've got all the tickets done.
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"We'll drop you at this hotel.
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00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,600
"We'll pick you up at ten tomorrow
morning, and we're out of here."
66
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,680
I thought, "I've still got a chance
at a family here," you know?
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Next morning, I was all pumped.
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Let's go! Went out.
69
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Nothing.
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It's just... no-one there,
71
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And I waited and waited.
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And then I realised once again...
73
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"Yep, they've gone."
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Yeah.
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Just smacked me around a bit.
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Mm. Mm.
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And then Jane told me Marty
went to the UK with his girlfriend.
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Martin was very much involved
in helping them escape
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because he wanted
the relationship to continue.
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Oh, it's like someone's stabbed
you in the heart, really.
81
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:08,480
I think all of us felt
that we were rejected again.
82
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We turned to drugs and alcohol
just to waste ourselves, you know,
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so that we didn't
have to think or feel.
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00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,480
I went right back
to an abusive relationship
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and drug and alcohol abuse.
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00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,200
There was no-one
and nowhere to turn to.
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We've never been a family,
we're just five people
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that have lived different lives,
but got the same name.
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The good thing is that you're
living with your parents,
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not relying on foster parents,
or anything,
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cos they never really treated you
the same as their own kids.
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00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,200
It's just good
to have your own parents.
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When Martin went to the UK...
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..I never heard from him again.
95
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,200
After two days,
looking for hairs, fibres, blood
96
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,840
and fingerprints...
97
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,400
.. we found absolutely nothing.
98
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,040
And whilst it was disappointing
to have no forensic evidence...
99
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,600
.. the report opened up a number
of theories in my mind.
100
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,600
My first theory
was steam cleaning had taken place,
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so DNA and fingerprints
would have been destroyed.
102
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,800
The second theory was,
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whilst we suspected the murder
had taken place within that flat...
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..it could have taken place
somewhere else altogether.
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00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,600
Martin and I,
we lived with Leigh and John.
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They had this really nice apartment
in Reading.
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00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,640
We had our own little space.
108
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,560
Reading in the '80s,
it was just, like, wow!
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00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,720
We were only young kids,
but we loved it.
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00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,120
There were pubs everywhere,
pub culture was huge.
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00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,320
The cars, the little cars,
the tiny streets.
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00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,120
And then the bobbies on bicycles,
you know?
113
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,920
Martin was a great pool player.
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00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,120
We'd go down to the local pub
and he would thrash them all,
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the locals. (CHUCKLES)
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And it was, like,
"Yeah, that's my man." (LAUGHS)
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Martin became a different man
because he was happy
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and full of life, when he'd come in
and sitting around the dinner table
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and have a family to talk to.
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00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,760
And they treated him
like he was the only child,
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00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,880
like this long lost son
that had come back and returned,
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00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,760
and very spoilt.
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00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,560
He enjoyed being with his parents,
124
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,880
but, again, there was that sadness
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that he didn't have his siblings.
126
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He felt he'd betrayed his sisters
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and his brother by going to England.
128
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I couldn't believe he went.
129
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I know he wanted a mum and dad.
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We all did.
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He was just such a softie.
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He just wanted
that family situation.
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He wanted what everybody else has,
134
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but he had his blinders on.
135
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It just wasn't what he imagined.
136
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As the investigation went on,
something wasn't sitting right
with me.
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This body had been recently killed,
138
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but before it was found, Leigh Sabine
was weak, she was dying of cancer.
139
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,200
Um, there was no way she'd have been
able to commit such an act.
140
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,680
I started to go back
through the evidence,
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00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,520
you know, review it with the team.
142
00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:09,920
Started looking at the body,
looking at the wrappings,
143
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,600
and that's where I noticed
the Tesco carrier bag.
144
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,960
Nothing unusual
about a Tesco carrier bag,
145
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000
only this one had a barcode on it.
146
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,200
And the date
on that barcode was 1992.
147
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,520
Er, you know, which was a
significant time away from 2015.
148
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:29,040
Now, I understand that people hold on
to carrier bags for a long time,
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00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,000
but 20 years, I just
thought that was really unlikely.
150
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,760
So, the body, er, when it
was found was wearing a pair
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00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,000
of St Michael's pyjamas.
152
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,320
We spoke to Marks & Spencer
and what they told us
153
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,200
was that those line of pyjamas
were discontinued in the early '90s.
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Initially, we believed
that this body is probably recent,
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00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,560
yet everything else is telling me
156
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,240
that this murder may have taken place
some years ago.
157
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,280
Martin and I just settled
into local life.
158
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,080
Martin had formed a really close
relationship with John.
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00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,000
John would talk about how he missed
160
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,280
sports days with his kids
and his sons.
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00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,600
So, it was all happy families,
except for Leigh.
162
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,000
She was jealous of the relationship
that Martin had with John.
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00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,520
When I got home,
she'd either be, you know,
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00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,240
loud and vivacious and happy.
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00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,680
Other days she'd be like, you know,
really dark,
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00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,120
moody, stroppy, short.
167
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,440
And I'd think, "Ooh," you know,
"what's wrong with her?"
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Had she had too much to drink,
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00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,000
or had they been fighting,
her and John?
170
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,040
John was upset with not having
his other children around him.
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00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,040
But it was the opposite for Leigh.
172
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,480
It's almost like she'd had children
but they were more pets, you know,
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that she'd had and then discarded.
174
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,200
She didn't have a motherly bone
in her body.
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As investigators,
you think you're getting the story,
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00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:27,360
and then more information would take
you in a different direction.
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00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,280
I went back to the pathologist
just to run through
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00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,720
some of the things we were finding
and some of the things
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00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,960
that were troubling me a little bit.
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00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,240
Could it be that the body
could have been there a lot longer?
181
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,880
And the pathologist said
there were possibilities.
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00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,200
One thing which he did speak about
was the vacuum-packed theory.
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00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,240
He explained, if that body had
been wrapped so tightly...
184
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,080
.. and around and round and round.
185
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,680
Taped, sealed, bound,
186
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,880
and if it had been bound
with no air inside that packaging...
187
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,000
.. that would have prevented any
bacteria, prevented decomposition,
188
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,200
kept the body really well preserved.
189
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,200
It's almost far-fetched, isn't it?
190
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,520
There was skin on the body,
there was hair on the body.
191
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,280
The organs were intact.
There were no maggots.
192
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,800
Right up until this point
of the investigation,
193
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,920
I'm working on the basis
this is a freshly killed male body...
194
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,440
.. but could this body have been
dead for quite some time,
195
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,080
far longer
than we initially thought?
196
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,440
When I spoke to the undertaker,
197
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,040
the undertaker said,
"Oh, I've got a theory, Lynne.
198
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,160
"She is proper vacuum-packed,
you know, like a piece of meat."
199
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,080
He said, "I do think she's used
something to suck the air out."
200
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,800
"Oh, I got the Hoover," I says,
"in the back of my car."
201
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,040
I am so glad
it never went in my house
202
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,680
cos that would have been
a horrible thought,
203
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,120
to think that I had brought that
into my house.
204
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,000
All of a sudden,
we were looking at a murder
205
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,280
that had occurred many years ago,
206
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,840
when the prime suspect, Leigh Sabine,
207
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,600
was not too frail, ill,
to have committed such an act.
208
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,040
After I found that Leigh
was at the centre of things,
209
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,280
I started to reflect
210
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,040
on something she'd told me,
211
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,320
which I hadn't really registered
at the time,
212
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,640
and it was that
one of her sons had died.
213
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:40,040
And what I found strange was it
was almost like a throwaway remark.
214
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,200
It didn't seem to be something
which bothered her a great deal.
215
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,240
We'd been living together
for about six months.
216
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,720
I came home from work,
and Martin said,
217
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,360
"I've got to tell you something.
Mum wants you to move out."
218
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,200
And I said, "What? What?"
219
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,160
And he said,
"Mum doesn't want you here anymore."
220
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,400
And I said, "Oh, my God!
221
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,640
"What am I gonna tell Mum and Dad?
Where am I gonna go?
222
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,160
"Like, what can I do?
But what have I done?
223
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,000
"I haven't done anything."
And he said, "Yeah,
224
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,200
"she's just gone off on one and
she doesn't want you to be here.
225
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,040
"She wants you to move out."
226
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,960
And I started crying.
I just didn't know what to do.
227
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,120
Martin was giving them what for,
telling them,
228
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,840
"What the... is going on?"
229
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,480
Why were they doing it again,
230
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,440
and why were we
all the way over here in the UK
231
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,480
for this to happen to him again?
232
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,880
It was the first time that I'd ever
really seen him that angry.
233
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,120
He said, "If she goes,
I go too, and you lose me."
234
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,800
John was very emotional.
235
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,600
He was saying,
236
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,560
"But, Leigh, you cannot do this."
Like, "Why are you doing it?"
237
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,680
She just said, "Because I can."
238
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,600
I thought, "What an evil bitch!"
239
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,080
And Martin really saw his mother
for what she was.
240
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:20,760
In that moment, I felt Leigh would
do anything to be in control again.
241
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,760
I just remember packing my suitcase,
242
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,800
and off we went
into the dead of night.
243
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,960
I just didn't know what to do.
244
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,720
Martin stood by me and he said,
"I'll never go back."
245
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,600
After that,
Martin just went downhill.
246
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,840
His whole life
just revolved around drinking.
247
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,880
He would get really dark.
248
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,920
Our relationship spiralled down,
249
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,760
and so we just ended up breaking up.
250
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,200
He moved back to New Zealand.
251
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,720
And one day I get this phone call
out of the blue
252
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,640
that Marty passed away.
253
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:15,200
In 2000,
Marty had been found deceased...
254
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,240
.. and...
255
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,680
.. he had taken his own life.
256
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,280
I couldn't believe
that Marty had pa...
257
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,640
I just never thought
he would do that.
258
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,680
He was just a fun,
easy-going, gentle soul.
259
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,400
That really knocked me around
for ages, that,
260
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,520
because I felt
like I'd let him down.
261
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,120
Even though I'd had nothing
to do with him for years,
262
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,280
I felt like I'd let him down.
263
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,160
On the day of his funeral,
I just cried and cried and cried,
264
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,880
and I just couldn't believe it.
265
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,000
When he went back to the UK
266
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,360
to see them
and they shit on him again,
267
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,400
I totally believe
he never got over it.
268
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,080
It might have been not the thing
269
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:09,320
that drove him over
the edge in the end,
270
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,400
but, man, it would have filled
the cup, you know?
271
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,760
We all can only take so much.
272
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:18,840
Yeah.
273
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,840
Martin phoned me
a few days before he killed himself.
274
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,240
He'd often phone every now and then,
he'd drunken dial.
275
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,640
He called me by the nickname
he used to call me, you know,
276
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,000
and I sort of said to him,
"Oh, Martin."
277
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,080
I said, "Oh," you know. I said,
"Stop it!" I said, "You're drunk."
278
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,160
He told me that he loved me
and that he'd always love me,
279
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,720
and then that was it.
280
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,320
In my heart of hearts now,
when I look back on that phone call,
281
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,040
that last phone call,
282
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,640
it was his goodbye,
that he'd had enough.
283
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,040
He'd actually had enough.
284
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,240
So, yeah...
285
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,320
Sorry.
286
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,240
I understand why he took his life.
287
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,360
Not that I think it was right,
288
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,280
but he felt it was right for him.
289
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,920
He was tired of believing in people.
290
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,520
No-one can hurt him where he is now,
so that's good.
291
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,080
Mm.
292
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,320
I could never forgive my parents
for what happened to Marty.
293
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,360
They destroyed a beautiful soul.
294
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,400
After Marty had passed,
295
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,960
I received a phone call
and it's my mother.
296
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,200
And she said somebody had
knocked on her door,
297
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,160
and it was two policemen,
298
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,360
and they had informed her
that her son had died.
299
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,480
I said, "Yes," and I told her
how he had died.
300
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,720
And she says,
"Oh. But why would he do that?"
301
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,040
I was just speechless.
302
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,480
It's, like, "What the fuck, lady?"
303
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,040
It's, like...
304
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,680
"Because of you."
305
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,520
Not long after my mother passed away,
306
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,480
Mary West was cleaning out
my mother's home,
307
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,560
and came across all these letters
308
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800
she had written to all us children.
309
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,360
I just couldn't believe
what she was saying in them.
310
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,600
Just crazy talk.
311
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,280
Jane's ones were bad.
312
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,280
Jane was the ugly duckling.
313
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,960
Marty's ones were bad,
314
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,840
calling him gutless and soft,
315
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,560
and when she had him, he was weak.
316
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,560
Children were a burden to her.
317
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,640
She didn't care about any of us.
318
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,720
Everything was about her.
319
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,720
How could she write such horrible...
320
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,920
horrible, nasty,
321
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,080
mean, evil stuff?
322
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,520
She had a whole life with no kids
323
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,680
to do whatever she wanted to do,
enjoy her life.
324
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,240
I just don't know why...
325
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,440
why she had so much hate.
326
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,360
Towards the end,
327
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,240
she said to me, "You could write
my life story for me."
328
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,520
It didn't appear that she had
a good upbringing herself.
329
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,000
Leigh told me that she grew up
in the Rhondda,
330
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,760
which is a mining valley
in South Wales.
331
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,240
It was tough because, literally,
there was no money.
332
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,920
Leigh had been abandoned
as a young child.
333
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,120
Her mother had left her father
334
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,480
when Leigh was about three,
335
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,880
and Leigh had been taken into care.
336
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,520
It had been a painful time for her.
337
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,800
She used to say that she'd been
abused when she was in care.
338
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,880
She didn't go into detail about it.
339
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,280
It left her, as often happens
with children like this,
340
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,360
as though she was
emotionally stunted.
341
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:51,000
I felt she had never been taught
how to be a mother.
342
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:56,400
When she was about 15,
she went to live with her aunt,
343
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,640
and her aunt encouraged her to sing.
344
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,240
Leigh's aunt modelled her appearance
on the singer, Deanna Durbin.
345
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800
"I wanted to look nice
my first time out in Vienna."
346
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,040
"Oh, now, looks very nice.
Very, very pretty."
347
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,800
Bought her clothes,
348
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,560
make up, etcetera,
349
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,960
so that she did echo Deanna Durbin.
350
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,320
That could have been when Leigh
tried to build up this persona,
351
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,200
and rather than live
in the real world...
352
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,160
.. she chose to fantasise about
what she wanted her life to be.
353
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,560
There was no doubt that
she was an absolute storyteller.
354
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,840
The stories of her life
were totally mythical.
355
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,520
She wasn't actually
Leigh Sabine from New Zealand.
356
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,640
We found out her name was Ann Evans.
357
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,560
She was a lady who was born
in the Rhondda Valley in South Wales.
358
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,720
She grew up in that area.
359
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,120
Can you believe she lived in the
Rhondda? It's only up the road.
360
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,720
A valleys girl?
Good God, well. I wouldn't have...
361
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,680
I mean, you, obviously,
you can tell my accent.
362
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,920
You would never have known
that from her...
363
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,840
No, definitely not, no.
.. Her accent.
364
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,120
No fucking way.
365
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,280
Fuck off! We always thought
she was from New Zealand.
366
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,640
I would never,
never in a million years,
367
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,680
have thought
that she was from Rhondda Valley.
368
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,080
And they say you can't take
the valley out of the...
369
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,720
the girl from the valley.
You can, obviously, yeah.
370
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,760
Everything she said was untrue.
371
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,160
Absolute lie.
372
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,800
She just lived in a different world
to everybody else.
373
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,200
I remember one day out of the blue,
my mother rang.
374
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,800
She said, "Your father passed
a couple of years ago."
375
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,440
And I says, "Oh, how did he pass?"
376
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,240
And she said, "Oh, he had
a lot of medical issues."
377
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,200
I says, "Oh, that's really sad."
378
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,600
And she's,
"Oh, I never truly loved him."
379
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,080
I hung up.
380
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:07,920
Why she even felt the need
381
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,280
to tell me she never truly
loved him, I don't know.
382
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,160
I remember,
Leigh and John had moved in.
383
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,000
Would have been about '97.
384
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,560
My father said, "New neighbours."
I said, "Oh, that's nice.
385
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,160
"Have you met them?"
386
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,200
"Yes." I said, "What's the matter?"
He said, "Oh, I don't like her."
387
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,840
"Something about her
that I don't like."
388
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,880
"She's too in your face.
Oh, I don't like her."
389
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,560
John was just... quiet.
390
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,640
He was very quiet.
Sat in the background.
391
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,200
He spoke,
but she did most of the talking.
392
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,960
We did full proof of life
enquiries for John Sabine.
393
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,720
DVLA, National Health Service,
394
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,280
passport enquiries.
395
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,640
John had only been living there
three, four months, at the most?
396
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,480
He wasn't there long,
put it like that.
397
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,480
There was only a handful of times
I ever had any interaction with him.
398
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,120
I'd never met John Sabine,
but Leigh said that he'd left her
399
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,920
because, "Darling,
that's what Italian men do."
400
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,760
We were able to prove
that on the 10th of February 1997...
401
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,960
.. John and Leigh Sabine had
moved into 57, Trem-y-Cwm in Beddau.
402
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,040
Both of them
had signed the tenancy agreement.
403
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,120
A couple of months later,
9th April 1997,
404
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,240
he'd actually been physically seen
by a doctor,
405
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,240
who recorded that meeting.
406
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,280
But since April 1997,
407
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,520
no-one had ever seen
or heard of John Sabine.
408
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,840
When I looked back
at the death certificate
Mary West had uncovered...
409
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,120
..it was for a John H Sabine.
410
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,920
He was a male who was born in 1929.
411
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,960
However, looking at this document,
John Sabine was born
412
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,960
on the 5th August 1930.
413
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,560
So, you had the same name,
John Sabine,
414
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,240
both born in the London area,
415
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,640
but the date of births
were actually out by one year.
416
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,160
So, with all the best intentions
of Mary West,
417
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,280
she'd had the death certificate
of a different person.
418
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,760
After John had supposedly left her,
419
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,560
when we went to visit my parents,
420
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,960
as soon as you open the door,
this smell would hit you.
421
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,360
It had to be coming
from Leigh's flat.
422
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,520
I'd say to my mum,
"What on Earth is that smell?"
423
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,920
"Oh, she's cooking curry."
424
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,040
I used to say, "Mum, I cook
curry. It doesn't smell like that."
425
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,080
It was a putrid smell.
426
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,040
She'd put a load of potpourri,
etcetera,
427
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,520
to hide the smell.
It didn't work, though.
428
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,400
Now we're focussing on John Sabine
as the potential victim,
429
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,840
but we had no definitive proof
that it was him.
430
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,440
We needed the DNA from his children
431
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,920
in order to establish identity.
432
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,560
I got a phone call from the police,
and they want a DNA sample,
433
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,440
so they can identify the body.
434
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,080
And I said, "Good," and then
they contacted me back,
435
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,200
and said,
"We don't need one off you.
436
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,720
We got one off your brother.
437
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,880
And then I says,
"But my brother's dead."
438
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,920
"No, no, you've got a half-brother
over here."
439
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Excuse my language
but I thought, "Holy fuck!
440
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,680
"What else is going
to come out of this?"
441
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,720
We were starting to delve deeper
into John Sabine,
442
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,760
pulling his army records,
and that's when we found out
443
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,560
that he'd actually had two children
from a previous marriage
444
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,080
that were living in the UK.
445
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,440
I'm Chris Sabine, son of
John Sabine from his first marriage.
446
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,000
I was about one years old.
447
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,960
My sister would have been
about two and a half
448
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,920
when my father abandoned us.
449
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,440
Back in 2015,
450
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,120
we were selling Christmas trees,
451
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,040
and the phone rang,
and I picked the phone up.
452
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,560
This Welsh accent said,
"Is Christopher John Sabine there?"
453
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,080
They said, "We wanna come out
and do a test on you
454
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,360
"because we've found a body.
We think it's your father.
455
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,360
"If we can come over
as soon as possible."
456
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,760
I said, "When's that?"
They said, "Tomorrow morning."
457
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,480
I thought, "Well, it's Saturday."
458
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,720
A Sunday.
No, it was Saturday then.
459
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,520
Yeah. Then they said
they'll be over by the morning.
460
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,440
They were here at nine o'clock,
ten o'clock?
461
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,440
Nine o'clock.
In the morning? They did a DNA test.
462
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,000
Well, I was a bit stunned by it,
really,
463
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,080
because you thought,
"What's happened?"
464
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,640
My mother said
when I was one or two years old,
465
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400
my father came back
from the Korean War.
466
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,880
He had shellshock.
467
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,680
He was in hospital
for a long period of time,
468
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,160
and he got friendly with the nurse.
469
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,400
Next thing you know,
she got pregnant.
470
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,280
At the time, John was 28
and Leigh was 17.
471
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,160
When my mother found out,
she decided, that's it,
472
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,320
best thing he can do is sling his
hook, and told him to leave.
473
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,240
It were one of the worst things
in my life.
474
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,200
I never grew up with a father.
There's a lot to miss.
475
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,920
Officers went to see Chris,
476
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,480
took a DNA sample kit,
which comprised of a mouth swab.
477
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,640
We quickly fast-tracked them
to the lab.
478
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,240
I was very conscious
this was someone
479
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,640
who hadn't seen their father
for many, many years.
480
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,560
We weren't sure
of their relationship.
481
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,560
We weren't sure of the impact
that a match could have on Chris.
482
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,080
In the mid-'80s, when I was
round about the age of 32,
483
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,080
we get this phone call to say,
484
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,760
"This is your father, John Sabine.
485
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,040
"Would you like to meet me?"
I said, "Yeah, certainly."
486
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,200
I couldn't believe it.
487
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,520
We met for over a year,
and everything was nice.
488
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200
We went down every fortnight
to Reading,
489
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,920
and we always went out for dinner.
490
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,120
We paid one week,
they paid the following.
491
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,840
It was very strange
cos going all through my life
492
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,040
with no father,
all of a sudden I've got a father.
493
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,960
I was really pleased to see him.
494
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,280
I think he wanted to have a family.
495
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,600
Not so much be a dad,
but have a family.
496
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,960
As we got to know them both more,
497
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,160
it appeared that she was
definitely the one in control.
498
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,280
John agreed with everything
that she said.
499
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,720
He would never stand up against her.
He wouldn't argue with her.
500
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,880
She was a bit aggressive.
501
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,920
One day, I rung up to say,
"I've got my first child."
502
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,960
"You're a grandad now."
503
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,720
And it's almost as if
he couldn't speak to me.
504
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,240
And that was it.
Never saw him again.
505
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,800
Which was strange cos I thought
John was very, very keen
506
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,560
to have a grandchild.
507
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,720
I don't think Leigh at the time
wanted him
508
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,880
to have any relationship
back with us.
509
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,800
She's a very jealous person,
510
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,720
and it was her way or no way.
511
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,120
So, two days, we received
the results of the DNA test.
512
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,040
DNA that we derived from Christopher
513
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,760
had helped us
positively identify the victim.
514
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,760
It showed that it was actually
his father, John Sabine.
515
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,000
I was horrified.
516
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,280
I was sad. I was all these emotions.
517
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,080
Couldn't believe it,
but I could believe it.
518
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,800
And I felt sorry for John.
519
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,760
I thought, "You poor man."
520
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,600
He wasn't perfect,
521
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,680
but I felt sad for my father.
522
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,640
In the little time I knew him,
he always seemed placid to me.
523
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,480
In New Zealand,
when the press were going,
524
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,960
he would be just about crying,
you know.
525
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,760
He was... It was too much for him.
526
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,320
I want it left alone.
We'll leave 'em be.
527
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,360
All you're trying to do
is to break the family up
528
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000
and cause a lot of problems.
Right, thank you.
529
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,840
When I was told
to leave that home...
530
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,880
..my father came running out
with a parrot.
531
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,320
It was a hanging parrot
that sat on the swing.
532
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,720
He had pulled that parrot
off the swing,
533
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,120
and he gave it to me
and told me he loved me.
534
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,360
And I think that's where this
softness I hold is there for him.
535
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,600
I don't know that my mother
knew about this parrot,
536
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,920
but she would have hated that.
537
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,240
The theory was that John Sabine
was killed by Leigh Sabine
538
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,560
some time in 1997.
539
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,080
But there was no hard evidence.
540
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,200
Confirming the identity
of the body gave a number
541
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,520
of investigative options to me,
542
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,280
one being the media.
543
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,240
You know, appealing for witnesses.
544
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,960
I formally named
John Sabine as the victim
545
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,800
and that was the first time
that his name had really gone out.
546
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,320
Welsh police have discovered the
body of a man wrapped in plastic.
547
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,120
John Sabine was last seen 18 years
ago. They lived all over the UK.
548
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,680
They kept no close friends,
no close family members.
549
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:32,520
If you do know anything about this
couple please call them on 101.
550
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,400
The most interesting phone call was
from a lady called Valerie Chalkley.
551
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,400
She'd been friendly with the Sabines
552
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,200
when they returned from Australia
in 1984 and were living in Reading.
553
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:50,920
She was a strange, strange person,
she really, she really was.
554
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,520
Valerie Chalkley tells the story
555
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,920
of how she lost touch
with John and Leigh.
556
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,280
For a number of years,
she didn't speak to them,
557
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,640
and she says, "I get a phone call out
of the blue and it's Leigh Sabine."
558
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,000
And she put the date around 1997.
559
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,960
Valerie Chalkley just asked her,
"How are you? How's John?"
560
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,880
She said, "I've killed him."
561
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,680
I said, "Er..."
She said, "Yeah, I've killed him.
562
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,320
"I've battered him with a stone frog
563
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,080
"because he was getting
on my nerves."
564
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,440
And I thought,
"Oh, she's having me on."
565
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,280
She could out with statements
that were totally ridiculous,
566
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,800
and you know when you feel a bit
of fool and think, "I feel a fool,"
567
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,040
and if I said, "Is that true?" she'd
say, "Course it isn't," you know.
568
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,040
Then she goes on
to talk about other things.
569
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,760
Changed the subject completely.
570
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,680
She was a show woman,
she really was.
571
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,760
If she could have written
her life story,
572
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,320
this is what she would have done.
573
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,720
This is how
she would have wanted it.
574
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,600
People talking about her,
leaving an impression.
575
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,280
Listening to what she told me,
I wasn't sure what to make of it.
576
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,840
This was so bizarre, this
information. How credible was this?
577
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,880
We weren't sure whether this was
the missing piece of the puzzle,
578
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,960
this was actually it,
or whether it's a weird story.
579
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,280
This ornamental frog
that has been used,
580
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,280
potentially, as a murder weapon
to kill John, we have to trace it.
581
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,560
How we gonna do that?
It's been 18 years.
582
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,640
CID contacted me and asked me
if I'd ever seen this frog,
583
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,560
and I said, "Well, it used to be
propping Leigh's bedroom door open."
584
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:46,840
I just tasked the officers to go back
and speak to Leigh's neighbours.
585
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,560
We started doing some inquiries,
586
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,360
and the very first place we go
587
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,840
is to the resident downstairs
who was arrested as a suspect.
588
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,160
That was a sensitive inquiry
cos Michelle James was quite upset
589
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,440
over the fact that she'd been
arrested in this case.
590
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,960
We ask her, "Is there any other
boxes belonging to Leigh?"
591
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,320
She said, "Oh, I think
there's a box on top of my fridge."
592
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,320
And there it was.
593
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:15,560
Both our eyes lit up, you know,
thinking, "That it might be it."
594
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,520
What the pathologist was able to do
was produce digital imagery.
595
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,680
You could see where that frog
had been driven into the skull.
596
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,880
It was a perfect overlay.
597
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,040
My theory is, John Sabine
had gone to bed, fallen asleep.
598
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,080
They may have had an argument
earlier that night.
599
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,880
And then she's grabbed
that stone frog
600
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,960
and she's attacked him with
some significant blows to the head
601
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,760
which have ended his life.
602
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,680
It just didn't seem real.
It's so far-fetched.
603
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,320
18 years and no-one missed him,
you know?
604
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,040
Oh, God.
605
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,280
Part of me thinks that my father
was always feeling bad
606
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,880
that he had left us again.
607
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,160
I think she didn't wanna hear it and
hit him over the head to shut him up.
608
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:21,040
She just disposed of him
like she did everybody else.
609
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,960
She got away with murder,
610
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,000
she got away with so much
in her life.
611
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,840
You know,
I can't forgive someone for that.
612
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,120
Our father loved her
unconditionally.
613
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,640
He had nobody else,
so he stayed with her,
614
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,400
and he paid a terrible price.
615
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,000
This is the ring that my father John
had on him when they found the body.
616
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,800
There's nothing much else.
617
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,080
Nothing. Nothing at all, no photos,
618
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,040
no nothing.
619
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,200
At his funeral,
620
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,520
there's nobody there.
Literally, nobody.
621
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,160
It was as if he was a ghost
in the area that he lived.
622
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,320
Nobody can ever recognise him,
623
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,040
nobody ever saw him,
nobody ever interacted with him,
624
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,560
but I think that's exactly
how she wanted it to be.
625
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,040
It was, er, coercive control.
626
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,680
A murder has been concealed
for some 18 years,
627
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:26,400
and Ann Sabine kept up the facade
that John Sabine left her,
628
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,880
or was with another woman,
or had, indeed, died.
629
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,520
It's almost like Leigh Sabine
630
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,560
was thinking ahead
and setting traps for people.
631
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,640
The stone frog was actually
sitting in Michelle's flat.
632
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,480
Leigh's even told Michelle James
633
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,480
this story
around the medical skeleton.
634
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,280
It's really cruel, when you think of
what Michelle James went through.
635
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,880
The impact that the murder
had on Michelle was quite appalling.
636
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,000
If Leigh had come clean,
637
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,240
she was dying, she couldn't have
been brought to justice,
638
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,240
but there would have been more
a sense of natural justice
639
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,040
if other people hadn't had
to be implicated.
640
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,400
TV: "Mr Sabine was never reported
as a missing person,
641
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440
"and the circumstances
of where his body was concealed
642
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,720
"is part
of the ongoing investigation."
643
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Going into that flat,
I can't recall seeing a big freezer.
644
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,440
I can't recall seeing an attic door.
There probably was.
645
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Was that body in the loft?
646
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,200
I think it was under the divan bed.
647
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,440
Under the bed? No way.
648
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,200
The only other possible place it
could have been was in the garden.
649
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,440
Now, whether
he was in the garden shed.
650
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,120
The only feasible place
that it could have been stored
651
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,040
was there was one sort of store
cupboard where the meter was kept.
652
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,680
It would have had to be somewhere
where she could have access
653
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:52,280
to the body and continually wrap it
654
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,160
over a period of time, you know,
655
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,280
to prevent the smells
and prevent any decomposition.
656
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:13,760
But I absolutely felt
that she had duped us.
657
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,560
She had this secret all along
and was hiding it from us.
658
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,040
You don't think
you have a murderer in the midst,
659
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,640
but, obviously,
there was one right on our doorstep.
660
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,080
I felt angry with her afterwards
because she was an outsider
661
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,800
who'd been accepted,
and she mocked that.
662
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,080
And she boasted that,
"After I die I will be famous."
663
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,360
And we laughed it off.
664
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:52,400
She played a damn good part.
665
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,640
An Oscar should have been awarded.
666
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,000
She wasn't an actor; she was a liar.
667
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,800
I do think she was evil, and those
children suffered because of her.
668
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,760
I couldn't leave her
with all the glory
669
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,600
of committing the perfect murder.
670
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,880
Because this story
is not just about a murder,
671
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,720
it's about our lives.
672
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,040
I spent the majority of my life
trying to figure out
673
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,440
why our parents might have left,
674
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,920
and the reality
of what they did to us.
675
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,560
All my life all I've wanted to do
is be part of a family,
676
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,040
good, bad or otherwise. I just
wanted to belong to something.
677
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,520
And all my life,
I never though we... I did.
678
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,080
Last time I seen Lee-Ann
was about three or four years ago.
679
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,120
Hey, sis!
680
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,800
Jane the same time.
681
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,880
(CHUCKLES) Hello!
682
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,880
I always wonder what our family
would have been like
683
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,040
if we'd stayed together.
684
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,520
Did you guys know our mother was
abandoned when she was younger?
685
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,080
Yep, she told Marty and I.
686
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,360
I don't feel one ounce of pity
or sorrow or anything for her.
687
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,720
Sorry, I don't.
688
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,560
Why go and have five children
and leave them,
689
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,240
when you know that pain?
690
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,480
You know that pain of desertion,
691
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,280
and yet she went and did it to us.
692
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,720
But regardless
of what my mother did,
693
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,640
we're breaking the cycle.
694
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,920
I could never imagine putting my
kids through what I went through.
695
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,760
My mother had a choice.
696
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,400
Everyone's got to make a choice.
697
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,760
Could have kept going
on the same route I was.
698
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,400
I would either have been in jail
for the rest of my life,
699
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,200
or I would have been dead.
700
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,200
I knew that the only way out for me
701
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:30,840
was if I had a child
to love and look after.
702
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,760
That...
703
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,320
That would save me.
704
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,840
When you have a baby,
the love is instant.
705
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,080
It's like the most amazing,
beautiful thing in the world.
706
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,640
My kids were the best thing
that happened in my life.
707
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,800
(SNIFFLES) Yeah.
708
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,840
We've all come from a horrible place
709
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,760
and done some amazing things
in our lives.
710
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,000
You know, I own my own home...
711
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,400
..got children, got a lovely wife,
you know.
712
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,120
And I do love my wife.
713
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,000
She wonders sometimes.
714
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,320
I'm actually really proud of
the kids we've turned out to be.
715
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,000
We're good kids. We have hearts.
716
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,160
Unlike her.
717
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:45,160
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