All language subtitles for The Body Next Door (2024) - S01E02 - Act 2 The Secret [WEBDL-1080p][EAC3 5.1][h264]-EDITH.en

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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,200 This programme contains strong language and adult themes. 2 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,440 (GRUNTS LIGHTLY) I've never done this before. 3 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,600 I've never ever told my story. 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,120 I've had offers from the press to do it and... 5 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,040 I just never have, 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,560 because people don't believe it. 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,680 I sit there sometimes at home by myself... 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,960 and I can't believe it's happened. 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,240 I just think I've just woken up 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,320 and I've just dreamt it. 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,000 Then reality strikes and, you know, it wasn't, it was a nightmare. 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,440 (TENSE, DRAMATIC MUSIC) Would you like your fucking family 13 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,720 destroyed, buddy? Would you like it destroyed? 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,120 No! 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,320 My name is Steve Sabine. 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,960 I'm one of five, 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,800 and I'm the second eldest. 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,720 My name is Jane Sabine. 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,760 My name's Lee-Ann Sabine. 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,920 I'm the youngest of five children. 21 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:12,039 I am the second youngest daughter 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,840 of Leigh and John Sabine. 23 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,320 Are you their mother? No, I am not their mother. 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,840 I've answered that one before! 25 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,720 Nah, bullshit. The whole thing was a lie. 26 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,760 Her whole life's been a lie, really. 27 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,680 (STATIC CRACKLES) You can move that off here, please. 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,920 They left us with nothing. 29 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,920 (DISTANT SHOUTING) We had to fight. 30 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,960 Where are you taking Jane? Where are you- 31 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,280 Henderson Police Station. Henderson Police Station. 32 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:44,360 She was the lady that gave birth to me and gave me life... 33 00:01:45,479 --> 00:01:47,120 but she was not my mother. 34 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,240 It was always about her. 35 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,039 Everything she did was about her. 36 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,759 My mother... 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,920 was... a nasty, 38 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,760 horrible... 39 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,600 heartless bitch. 40 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,360 Police were called here after human remains 41 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,480 were found within the grounds. 42 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,800 They say a man's body was found 43 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,920 above ground outside the flats, 44 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,320 concealed in plastic wrapping. 45 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,960 It's unprecedented, isn't it? 46 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,480 You know, uh, you don't hear 47 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,240 of this sort of thing in your own little village. 48 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,200 People living here have been shocked by the discovery. 49 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,040 I went to the doctor's and then I said, 50 00:03:27,079 --> 00:03:30,079 "Can you just give me a short dose of sleeping tablets?" 51 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,079 And he said, "You and most of the people in Beddau, 52 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,720 they've all been here asking for sleeping tablets." 53 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,640 It was a very eerie 54 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,079 feeling over the village; 55 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,320 to think something like this has happened 56 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,640 and nobody knows anything about it. 57 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,840 What we knew in this case was that the victim was a male. 58 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,800 We didn't know much else at this time. 59 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,280 We couldn't identify who the person was, 60 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,400 how they'd come to pass, who else could have been involved. 61 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,240 It was a real mystery, if I'm honest. 62 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Our only suspect at this stage was Leigh Sabine. 63 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,279 But Leigh Sabine, she'd been ill for quite some time 64 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,160 and had died about a month earlier. 65 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,280 You know, everything was giving us the indication 66 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,440 that that body was reasonably fresh. 67 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,680 So, how on earth could this elderly woman, who lived alone, 68 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,880 be involved in what had happened? 69 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,480 It didn't make sense. 70 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,600 Did she have capability to commit a murder? 71 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,120 Did she have capability to wrap that body, 72 00:04:43,159 --> 00:04:46,200 to move that body, to store that body? 73 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,920 She didn't fit the profile 74 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,880 of a killer, you know, but... 75 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,720 you've got to keep an open mind. 76 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,320 We knew very little about Leigh Sabine 77 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,080 and we weren't really making much progress. 78 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,160 A lot of the information we had on her 79 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,240 was stuff she'd originated and just told people 80 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:12,280 in the Beddau community. 81 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:19,880 She was a likeable person, 82 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,480 very welcoming. 83 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,800 She was more than happy to invite us into her flat, 84 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,680 would offer us a cup of tea or a cup of coffee 85 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,880 and was happy, really, to... 86 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,320 to sit with you and-and just tell stories. 87 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,280 She liked to know our business. 88 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,840 She wanted to know about, you know, 89 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,800 how many children we'd got 90 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:45,840 and you know, have you got any grandchildren? 91 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,480 But if you started to probe a little bit more about her life, 92 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,159 she would shut the conversation down. 93 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,440 OK. 94 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,040 Pretty soon after I started visiting Leigh in hospital, 95 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,400 she started telling people 96 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,440 that I was her executor. 97 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,360 Now, obviously I felt uncomfortable about this, 98 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,520 because I knew she had five children. 99 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,280 I found the fact that she had no contact with them strange, 100 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,160 but she certainly spoke of them in a very unemotional way. 101 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,960 There didn't seem to be any warmth or any connection. 102 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,400 So, I told the police this. 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,560 So, a month after I heard 104 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,760 our mother had passed away, 105 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,360 I get this phone call out of the blue from the police. 106 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,480 And they said that they found 107 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,040 a body in the garden, 108 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,280 but they didn't know who the body was. 109 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,200 I was taken back a bit. 110 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,400 I hadn't seen my mother in... 111 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,280 oh, a long time. 112 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,480 Like, a long time. 113 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,280 Within the family, there is 114 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,200 our oldest sister, then there's Steven, 115 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,000 then there's Marty, 116 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,159 then there's me, and then there's Lee-Ann. 117 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,920 My earliest memory would be 118 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,600 my father gathering up the kids 119 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,000 and taking us for a walk down the road... 120 00:07:57,159 --> 00:07:59,360 carrying me on his shoulders. 121 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,720 And I felt so special. 122 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,600 Where we lived, there was creeks. 123 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,960 Our father taught us to swim. 124 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,000 We used to swim a lot. 125 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,960 And I used to go alright at breaststroke, was my stroke. 126 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,520 The only one I didn't sink in, I think. 127 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,919 I remember my mum wanted to be... 128 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,560 make it as a cabaret singer. 129 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,000 She just thought she was Shirley Bassey or something. 130 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,360 And I remember going to at least a couple of gigs. 131 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,800 One in Auckland where we had to sit around 132 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,320 and wait for her to perform. 133 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,320 I would only have been five or six. 134 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Just sat in the end behind the stage. 135 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,200 I was a pretty happy chappy at that point. 136 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,880 And then, this one day, 137 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,480 I remember seeing suitcases packed... 138 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,800 .. then hopping in a taxi. 139 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,760 My parents dropped us in a day care in Auckland. 140 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,960 I just remember us getting there and them saying, 141 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,920 "We'll be back in a couple of days to grab you." 142 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,360 Just got in the car and drove away. 143 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,520 They were just gone. 144 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:03,720 Boom, gone. 145 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,760 I would have been seven years old. 146 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,760 Martin would have been five, 147 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,400 Jane would have been four, 148 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,440 Lee-Ann would have been over a year old. 149 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:17,640 The first few days after that, 150 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,680 we used to get out the gate and watch for them to come. 151 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,920 We all used to think that every plane, every taxi, 152 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,200 carried our parents, you know? 153 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,240 Every day you'd be looking, "Oh, they're coming, they're coming." 154 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,040 But they just never did. 155 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,960 They never came back. 156 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,560 I always wondered why they left, 157 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,360 but I used to believe 158 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,240 we had done something wrong to upset them and they'd gone, 159 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,280 because why else would your parents drop you and run, you know? 160 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,880 The discovery of these children opened up 161 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,680 loads of opportunities for us from an investigative point of view, 162 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,120 so we wanted to take advantage of that. 163 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,920 We made an approach to the authorities 164 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,120 in New Zealand, um, asked for their assistance and support. 165 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,560 Looked into their archives, their records. 166 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,680 And that's when we started to pick up a number of headlines. 167 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,200 The headlines caused me real concern. 168 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,400 When our parents abandoned us, it was the... 169 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,040 one of the first cases of that kind of thing 170 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,440 in New Zealand at the time, and it made all the papers. 171 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,360 Reporters turned up. 172 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,760 We didn't totally understand what was going on. 173 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,920 As a couple, John and Leigh Sabine 174 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,200 were sought after by the authorities for some 18 months. 175 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,440 Trying to locate them to bring 'em back, 176 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,280 hold them to account for what they'd done. 177 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,760 They were in a nationwide manhunt. 178 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,600 The police were looking for them everywhere, here and Australia. 179 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,640 It was also apparent that the Australian and New Zealand police 180 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:29,640 had had real difficulties in tracing John and Leigh Sabine, 181 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,440 mainly due to the fact that they were using aliases. 182 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,040 John and Lee Jones, John and Lee Martin. 183 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,200 They're going from one country to another... 184 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,440 so that she could pursue her cabaret singing career. 185 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,760 When Leigh introduced herself to us the first time we met her, 186 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,960 she couldn't wait to tell us about her past. 187 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,600 She'd been a successful singer back in New Zealand. 188 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,840 She said that she'd done many cabaret acts 189 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,000 and she loved the high life. 190 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,480 One day, I'd been up in Beddau doing my local rounds. 191 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,680 Leigh said that she had to go 192 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,520 because she was going to the hairdresser's 193 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,400 to have her hair done and makeup done 194 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,680 because there was a film crew coming from New Zealand. 195 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,080 They were doing a programme called "Where Are They Now?" 196 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,720 about famous people. 197 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,600 It was for a documentary they were doing in New Zealand, 198 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,640 who were looking for, 199 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:39,920 basically, older famous people 200 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,080 that have seemed to have just drifted off the scene. 201 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,360 Me thinking, was she ever really that famous 202 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,280 as a cabaret singer and dancer 203 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,680 that they would want to be finding out where she is? 204 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,600 And she was like, up on the- with the pillars, you know. 205 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Her hands up and, like, giving the pose and everything. 206 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,600 (LAUGHS) And yeah, so, yeah, God she was loving it. 207 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,880 I thought then, "Oh my God, she was bigger than what, 208 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,560 you know, what I thought she was." 209 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,840 Was she a cabaret singer? 210 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,400 You know, was that actual truth or was that another story 211 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,240 that she'd spun? 212 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,840 But they got found by the press, 213 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,520 and they ended up 214 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 talking to the press and giving their side of the story. 215 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:39,720 (READS) "Lee Jones 216 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,680 broke down and cried in Perth yesterday 217 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,160 as she told about the five young children 218 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,400 she and her hu- her husband 219 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,920 left in New Zealand 15 months ago. 220 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,120 We never intended to desert our children. 221 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,160 We hoped to give the kids the good life." 222 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,480 That's just bullshit. 223 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,120 There's nothing else to say on that. It's just crap. 224 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,600 Then it hit the newspapers 225 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,120 and it all came out. 226 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,680 I can't imagine 227 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,120 how my parents just didn't come back. 228 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,720 It's like, who did they think was looking after us? 229 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,240 How do they carry on with their life 230 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,760 knowing they've got five children 231 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,600 running around, could be hurt, 232 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,320 you know? 233 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,440 Just don't know what kind of human beings do that. 234 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,920 Just to be famous? 235 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,880 Oh, she dumped us for fame, alright. 236 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,920 That's what she thought she was gonna get. 237 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,200 She wasn't. 238 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,240 (LAUGHS) She wasn't that good. 239 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,840 So, she wasn't a famous, successful cabaret singer. 240 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,520 Um, yes, she sang in the odd bar and nightclub 241 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,440 for not a lot of money. 242 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,040 So Leigh Sabine, despite giving the persona 243 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,960 of a cabaret singer, 244 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,000 someone who loved to tell a story... 245 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,480 had a real selfish side, a dark side. 246 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,320 You know, a mother who was able to abandon her five children, 247 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,800 move to another country, 248 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,320 and not really give them a second thought. 249 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,920 But we need evidence. 250 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,920 We need hard evidence to prove 251 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,120 that the killer is Leigh Sabine, 252 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,880 if-if it is Leigh Sabine. 253 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,280 Forensic examination of the packaging 254 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,080 was going to be really important 255 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,480 to see if there's any opportunity 256 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,480 to yield any forensic evidence which will take the case forward. 257 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,320 It was significant packaging; 258 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,200 14 sheets... 259 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,320 wrapped around 41 times. 260 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,400 So it was a really challenging and difficult job. 261 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,480 We were mainly looking for fingerprints of the perpetrator, 262 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,560 you know, the person who had wrapped 263 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,119 this poor victim up multiple times, really. 264 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,119 We underestimated, I suppose, the size of the wrappings. 265 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,440 They were so big; I'd say about 12-foot long. 266 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,520 How on earth would we... 267 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,079 How would we deal with something like that? 268 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,320 Our fingerprint lab wasn't really 269 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,680 equipped for that kind of exhibit size, 270 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,800 so we was almost thinking off the spot and creating a mini lab. 271 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,080 We had a garage at the time. 272 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,160 It had roller shutter doors at the end. 273 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,040 That was good for ventilation. 274 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,120 So, we decided to move the wrappings 275 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,360 and put them in there. 276 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,520 It was Samantha who came up with the idea of making a washing line 277 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,760 that went from one side of the garage to the other. 278 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,640 Best idea ever. 279 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,560 We were able to put these layers over the top of this line, 280 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,520 which took up the width of most of the garage, 281 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,200 to be honest, just to give you the scale. 282 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,080 You have to meticulously 283 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,880 look in every crook 284 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,880 and every cranny for fingerprints. 285 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,640 I don't think we ever realised 286 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,200 the enormous task that was ahead, 287 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,600 and this wasn't just a couple of days, 288 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,360 this was gonna take weeks. 289 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:04,920 So, my brothers and sisters, 290 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,760 we bounced between homes a fair bit. 291 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,760 I'm not actually sure how many 292 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,720 homes or places I went to, 293 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,560 but it felt like a lot. 294 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,880 We never got any nurturing or anything like that. 295 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,600 I can still remember talking to a foster parent, and, um, I says, 296 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,680 "Oh, when my parents come back," and she says, "They didn't want you. 297 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,720 No one wants ya." 298 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,920 There was no love. There was no... 299 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,680 attachments. 300 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,960 We didn't get shown the necessities. 301 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,960 Like, we didn't get shown how to brush teeth properly. 302 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,360 Yeah, you always felt like a second-class citizen. 303 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Mm. 304 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280 I mostly watched my brothers and sisters 305 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,280 getting beaten up, 306 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,320 thrown on walls and... 307 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:15,880 and I would just cry, 308 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,960 watching, terrified, scared that they were gonna get killed. 309 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,000 One foster father... 310 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,000 in particular was very abusive, 311 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,320 mentally and physically. 312 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,800 Marty and I had pet mice. 313 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,640 One was a white one. 314 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,120 One was a brown one. 315 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,840 Any bit of pocket money we got, we'd buy the little wheel 316 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,440 that they swing around on, 317 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,680 all the bells, all the balls. 318 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,480 It was just something we had, you know, 319 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,880 that... that we could love. 320 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,600 And this one day, 321 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,000 this foster father said, 322 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,160 "Come to the garage." 323 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,080 And he gave us a hammer each, 324 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:07,760 and he said, "Now... 325 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:10,320 kill them." 326 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,760 Well, there was no way I was gonna kill that mouse. 327 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,240 And I started crying. 328 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,880 Marty just took my hammer... 329 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240 and he killed both the mice. 330 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,960 The foster father, he ruled that house 331 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000 with fear and intimidation. 332 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,840 Just a horrible man. 333 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Horrible, horrible man. 334 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:52,720 Very violent. 335 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,320 He did some horrible things to Jane 336 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,040 and LeeAnn. Um... 337 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,680 And, you know, and... 338 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,920 there's nothing I can do about that. 339 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480 I remember the f- very first time 340 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,120 that the sexual abuse happened. 341 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,720 I thought it was just normal, you know. 342 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,840 The foster father would... 343 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,960 pull me into his room, 344 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,200 um, and shut the door, 345 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,400 or he would come into my bed 346 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,440 after he had finished night shift. 347 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,640 No one believed us. 348 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,360 I mean... 349 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,120 they just told us we were lying, making stuff up, 350 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,160 and it happened all the time. 351 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,000 I was just holding out for the day that 352 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,200 our parents would come back and save me 353 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,160 from what we were going through. 354 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,960 The wrappings ended up taking so much longer 355 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,200 'cause you would open the exhibit bag... 356 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,720 and you can see the effort that someone's gone into 357 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,760 to try to conceal this body. 358 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,120 Inside, you would have hundreds and hundreds of different 359 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,960 pieces of extra tape, 360 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,040 you know, you've got rope, bungees. 361 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,960 We had tin foil, Tesco carrier bag. 362 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,600 We had to examine each and every one of them many times. 363 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,600 Itemising everything that we've found. 364 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,720 Every wrapping that we opened got worse and worse; 365 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,920 very heavily contaminated 366 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000 with what I believe is body fluids. 367 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,880 So it was very hard to pick it up 368 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,880 'cause it was falling through your fingers. 369 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,640 And it was hard to examine 'cause it was so thick and, like, gloopy. 370 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,280 We found fingerprints. 371 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,960 We got excited. We thought it was brilliant. 372 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,160 This is a piece of adhesive tape 373 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,720 that was originally on the body wrappings used to conceal the body. 374 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,840 You can see there's some areas that have been picked up 375 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,280 that look like a fingerprint. 376 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,680 But we needed an expert 377 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,320 to confirm if this was a fingerprint or not. 378 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,480 It was a really exciting time then, 379 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,040 sending off that... that-that forensic evidence 380 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,000 and hoping that this occasion 381 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,800 we were gonna be able to identify 382 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,280 Leigh Sabine as a suspect in this crime. 383 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,160 When we were discharged from care, 384 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,040 I was dropped at a homeless shelter 385 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,080 in Auckland City. 386 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:41,000 I-I got a job. I left school. 387 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,040 Got locked up a few times. 388 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,480 We were sort of in and out of each other's lives a little bit. 389 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,040 Me and Marty had always stayed close. 390 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,240 There's only, like, 13 months between me and Marty, 391 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,320 so we were pretty much connected. 392 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Jane and Martin, they were tight. 393 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,360 Marty was my... 394 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,960 partner... 395 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,360 in crime, so to speak. 396 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,240 He met me one day 397 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,600 and he was with this beautiful girl, 398 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,520 and her name was Jodene. 399 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,440 My name's Jodene Harris 400 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,440 and my first ever boyfriend was Martin Sabine. 401 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,280 Love of my life. 402 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:34,680 He was a cutie, cutie patootie. 403 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,200 When he walked into a room, he would just light up the room. 404 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,400 He just had the biggest, cheekiest smile. 405 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,480 That's what, um, you know, 406 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,520 I fell in love with straightaway. 407 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,840 As I got to know him, 408 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,640 he sort of would tell me stories about his childhood. 409 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,360 He would often... 410 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,280 think that he was bad 411 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,960 because... 412 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,600 some of the things that he was forced to do 413 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,280 when he was in foster care, 414 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,720 like having to kill their pet... mice. 415 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,240 He wasn't a bad kid at all. He was... 416 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,760 just troubled, you know? 417 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,320 So, Martin and I had been together... 418 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,520 about... 419 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,440 nearly two years, 420 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160 and Martin came home one day and said that 421 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,960 he'd had a phone call from his mother. 422 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,640 And I said, "Your mother?" And he said, 423 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,040 "Yeah, my mum. My mum, my birth mum." 424 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,440 And I said, "What?" Couldn't believe it. "WHAT?" 425 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,680 I was living in a halfway house in Grafton. 426 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,240 I was 22 years old 427 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,000 and I hadn't seen any of my siblings for a while... 428 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,840 and someone said, "The phone's for you." 429 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,320 I went down... 430 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,520 and answered the phone, 431 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,360 and it was a guy and he goes, 432 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,000 "Steven, this is your dad, John." 433 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,400 And I says, "This better be not a fucking joke, 434 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,520 or I'll hunt you down." 435 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,480 And he goes, "No, it's no joke." 436 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,520 He told me the story that, 437 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,640 you know, they were too scared to come back, 438 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,720 but, um, "Now... 439 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,880 we wanna get the family back together and we wanna start again." 440 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,160 And I... Then I just went numb. 441 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,640 Oh, Martin was beside himself. 442 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,840 He was SO happy and he couldn't wait to, like, 443 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,360 get the girls together, the family together. 444 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,400 I didn't believe Marty when he told me that our parents were back, 445 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,080 because he was a bit of a joker and that. 446 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,600 Well, I just was like... 447 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,480 so excited. 448 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,080 We get there, and Marty says, "Come on," 449 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,720 and he's first out of the car, and I follow him up the steps. 450 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,640 And I walk down the hallway 451 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,120 and then I bump into my mother, 452 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,200 and she says... 453 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,520 "Oh, my... 454 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,480 darling baby." 455 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,440 She went to give me a hug 456 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,000 and I stepped back. 457 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,080 I was like... you know? 458 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,480 Feel like a stranger had just come up to me. 459 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,080 I didn't feel like it was real. 460 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,440 They had said that we were welcome to come and stay. 461 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,120 I thought, "Yes!" 462 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,000 I moved back first 463 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,080 and then Martin was like a day or two after me. 464 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,600 Then Jane and Leanne moved back in, 465 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,960 and it was quite cool, actually. 466 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,240 Finally, I actually had a... 467 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,400 my own home. 468 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,120 Marty... was so happy. 469 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,320 All he ever wanted was that family, 470 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,560 that mum, that dad, and live happily ever after. 471 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,600 You'd sort of dreamed about what it would be like 472 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,840 and what would happened if they come back 473 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,160 and things like that. 474 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,200 I thought, "Well, this is meant to be," you know? 475 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,560 It was all really good. My mother would get up at like, 476 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,520 about like four o'clock in the morning 477 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,640 and start cooking dinner for that night. 478 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,440 She would cook the dinner with a cigarette in her hand 479 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,360 and a wine in the other hand. 480 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,960 And I used to think, "I hope that ash 481 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,400 doesn't fall in the food!" (LAUGHS) 482 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,440 She used to smoke, like, 483 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,560 those long cigarettes 484 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,040 and she used to... 485 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,440 you know, the way she talked, "Oh, darling... 486 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,840 tell me how your day was." 487 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,760 She had this sort of, like, 488 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,600 posh kind of persona. 489 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,080 I found her very... 490 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,040 over the top, like, 491 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,440 I think I felt like she was... fake. 492 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,680 I didn't really think about that, I just thought 493 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,320 my mum and dad are back 494 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,360 and we can be a family again. 495 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,840 So, for the first week or two, 496 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,520 it was really nice. 497 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,760 It was... it was everything you'd ever want. 498 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,280 But then that ended. 499 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,160 I... would tell our mother 500 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,440 about things that happened to us, 501 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,240 abuse that had happened 502 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,040 in the homes that we were in. 503 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,320 At the time, when I felt 504 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560 unable to tell people about the abuse 505 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,960 that was going on... 506 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,920 I wrote poetry. 507 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,360 I... 508 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,400 wrote a poem... 509 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,640 that said: 510 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,800 "Is the big bad wolf false or fiction? 511 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,560 He's entered my world. 512 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,680 I see his picture. 513 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,320 He enters my room, 514 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,160 wide, smiling face. 515 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,880 He silently whispers, 516 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,000 "Move over, make space." 517 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,480 I cannot explain Mr. Wolf's charm, 518 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,000 for although he is gentle 519 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,560 I know he means harm. 520 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,560 He leads me, he guides me, 521 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,400 he shows me the way. 522 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,920 But his only motive is to make me his prey." 523 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,920 I remember the look on her face 524 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,520 was... 525 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040 like, "I don't wanna hear it," type look. 526 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,120 She didn't wanna talk about how we were brought up. 527 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,520 Although I was happy for them to be back 528 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,760 and it was all I had hoped for... 529 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,800 I needed answers. 530 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,280 I wanted to... to know 531 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,040 what was their reason for leaving, and not coming back. 532 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,920 And she quite bluntly said... 533 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,240 "Oh, I don't feel we owe you an explanation." 534 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,120 And I'm sitting there thinking, "What the..." 535 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,400 I don't know what they expected. 536 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,440 Did they not think that we were going to ask, 537 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,720 "Where have you been?" 538 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,800 I just didn't wanna rock the boat. 539 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,200 I just wanted to get this family thing sorted and... 540 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,920 life would move on, you know? 541 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,800 But Jane wasn't scared to rock the boat. 542 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,640 She could have said anything. She could have said, "I'm sorry." 543 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,440 "I'm sorry" would have been great. 544 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,120 There was no smidge of a acknowledgement whatsoever. 545 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,400 I wasn't prepared to accept that. 546 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,040 When I asked again, 547 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,080 "Why did you leave us?" 548 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,240 she'd had enough. 549 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,080 And she kicked Jane out. 550 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,720 And then she kicked me out! 551 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,480 I still wanted those answers 552 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,040 and I was gonna do anything to get them. 553 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,320 And that's when it all blew up. 554 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,159 I felt well going to the media would give me some answers. 555 00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,400 A film crew came over from Australia, Channel 9. 556 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,520 They had asked 557 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,440 if we would take them into the property, which we did. 558 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,320 Well, I went along with Jane 559 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,560 and the film crew 560 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,920 to our parents' house, and... 561 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,639 they get us to go and knock on the door. 562 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,080 Anyone home? 563 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,360 Hi. Hi. 564 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,600 Mr Sabine. Wait! 565 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,040 Mr Sabine, we are from the Michael Willesee Show 566 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,880 in Sydney, Australia, sir. 567 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,600 Mr Sabine? The police are on their way. 568 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,000 Mr Sabine, we only want to have a chat to you, sir. 569 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,720 Not the way you're doing it. Sorry. We'll turn the cameras off, sir. 570 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,520 No one's hurting you, but me and Lee-Ann 571 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,600 and that's because you hurt us. 572 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,440 My father kept telling them, "Just go away, just go away." 573 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,680 Right there was a window that was wide open 574 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,280 that I could fit through. 575 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,280 These journalists wanted a story. 576 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,400 They noticed the window, actually, 577 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,920 and said, "Would you be prepared to climb through there?" 578 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,120 Me wanting to be a pleaser 579 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,600 and get the answers I wanted, "Yeah, I'll do that." 580 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,920 So, when I climbed through the window, 581 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,560 I opened the door. 582 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000 That allowed the film crew into the house. 583 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,520 They just kept filming the whole time. 584 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,560 You owe us an explanation. 585 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,440 If you'd done it properly, I would have done. 586 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,040 No, you wouldn't. Yes, we would. 587 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,560 We stood at the door- I tried to get a reconciliation. 588 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,440 Why did you call us mental retards? Stop touching my sister! 589 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,520 Why did you call us mental retards... 590 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,040 'It turned into a screaming match.' 591 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,160 Please get out the house. I'll tell the police. 592 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,920 (DOOR SLAMS) My mother saying, 593 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,320 "Who are you? You're not even my daughter, go away." 594 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,480 So, my mother, she rang me and she said, 595 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,760 "You've got to get home. Journalists everywhere." 596 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,000 You can do me for assault but if that cameras don't stop, 597 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,680 it'll go down your fucking throat. Hold on, mate, it's a public- I was angry, alright. 598 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,120 Would you like your fucking family destroyed, buddy? 599 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,880 (STATIC CRACKLES) Much too... You can move that off here, please. 600 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,920 It got heated and I threw a punch 601 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,800 that connected with my mother. 602 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,120 And she rang the police on me. 603 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,080 Where are you taking Jane? Where are you- 604 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,320 Henderson Police Station. Henderson Police Station. 605 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,160 And you can't tell us any more about that? 606 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,320 Leigh was really angry with Jane. 607 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,480 "How could you do that? That bloody little bitch," you know. 608 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,960 Jane had challenged her... 609 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,040 and my mother was that angry. 610 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,960 You could see the rage in her. 611 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,320 And I sort of looked at her and I thought, "My God... 612 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,120 she could kill someone." 613 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,480 Police in Pontypridd are continuing a murder investigation 614 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,560 after a man's body was discovered hidden 615 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,160 in plastic wrapping at a block of flats 616 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,440 in the Beddau area of the town. 617 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,080 Obviously, a lot of work was still ongoing in the background, 618 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,080 particularly around the forensics. 619 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,200 I receive a phone call then, and an update from our team. 620 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,000 They'd done significant work, going through the packaging, 621 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,920 detail, inch-by-inch... 622 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,320 but they'd unfortunately not been able to recover 623 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,840 any fingerprint evidence 624 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,360 which was going to help us identify a suspect. 625 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040 It was a tricky one. 626 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,280 The ones we found that looked like fingerprints 627 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,880 turned out not to be. 628 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,920 At the end, they decided that it was the adhesive 629 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,520 mixed in with the body fluids, 630 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,520 rather than a fingerprint mark. 631 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,800 Of course, it's a real blow, but it wasn't all bad news... 632 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,280 because within that packaging, 633 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,320 there was a number of things they had picked out; 634 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,760 certain fibres and other things of value. 635 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,360 But the most significant find was a piece of hair. 636 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,400 That was a major bit of information. 637 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,960 We were quite keen to understand who that belonged to. 638 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,560 It was compared for the DNA of the victim, 639 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,600 and it was found not to be a match. 640 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,960 That again brought additional excitement in the investigation team 641 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,040 'cause what we've got there is a foreign piece of DNA, 642 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,280 potentially belonged to Leigh Sabine. 643 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,880 Jane, how do you feel now that 644 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,680 today's events seem to be over? 645 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:36,000 Um, I don't know. 646 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,360 When I got arrested, 647 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,000 I was furious. 648 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,800 And I wrote a letter 649 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,320 to the Minister of Social Welfare. 650 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,920 I wanted them charged with child abandonment 651 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,840 because I feel they should be accountable. 652 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,800 Steven and Martin were pissed off. 653 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,320 I was angry alright, 654 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,080 because I actually felt like we had a chance to be a family, 655 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,280 you know, and that's all I'd ever wanted. 656 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,280 Steven and Martin, they were still living there. 657 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,080 They wanted to... 658 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,080 stay and be a family. 659 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,280 I was still clinging on, so was Martin. 660 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,880 For the first time, the sons who live here 661 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,280 with the long-lost parents spoke out. 662 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,400 Martin and I got an interview done 663 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,360 to say, "Hey, can you leave us alone?" 664 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,760 You can't keep dragging up the past. 665 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,800 Y-You gotta keep on going. 666 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,680 But they say they cannot forgive their two younger sisters 667 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:39,720 for going public about their parents' return. 668 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,200 Yeah, it was the boys against the girls. 669 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,880 I dunno, we seem to get along with them alright. 670 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,880 They just... 671 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,640 can't handle being told what to do. 672 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,320 You're living with your parents, 673 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,160 not-not relying on foster parents or anything, 674 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,280 which they never really treated you the same as their own kids. 675 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,200 It's just... It's just good to have your own parents. 676 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,800 They say their parents are living with a lot of shame 677 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,600 and fear and the hope they will 678 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,880 not be prosecuted for child abandonment. 679 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,880 The letter requesting that my parents be 680 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,320 charged with child abandonment... 681 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:16,920 was declined. 682 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,080 No charges would be brought against them, 683 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,080 due to the fact my two brothers 684 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,920 wished to remain and have some kind of relationship with them. 685 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,360 But people were angry. 686 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,200 We only wanted to give you the right of reply. 687 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,400 You should have phoned before you... And people wanted 688 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,040 blood, basically. 689 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,200 And they too thought 690 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,360 our parents should be accountable. 691 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,840 And then it just blew up. 692 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,320 They got hounded by the press. 693 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,560 My mother thought, "Oh, here we fucking go again. 694 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,520 The press are coming." You know? 695 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,120 And it was panic time, it really was. 696 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,880 And it spiralled out of control for her, you know? 697 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,920 Are you their mother? 698 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,320 No, I'm not their mother and I've answered that one before. 699 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,560 And then they ran away, and we're all left. 700 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,520 Leigh and John, I think their main 701 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,480 concern was ending up in jail, 702 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,520 so they left in the dead of night. 703 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:30,440 They went to the UK. 704 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,240 They were here one day, gone the next. 705 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,120 They didn't want us from the start, did they? 706 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,040 I mean, like, I feel like I've never had 707 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,920 a real sense of belonging, 708 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,280 and I may as well carry on... with that. 709 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,000 So, what are you gonna do now? 710 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,960 Just carry on my life, 711 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,560 just with me and Jane. 712 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,520 If they don't want us, then... 713 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,200 it's hard luck for us. 714 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,640 Yeah, it's pretty hard to comprehend what sort of people do that. 715 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,520 That's how my mother was, 716 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,320 and it's what she did. 717 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:10,600 She didn't wanna be questioned, 718 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,480 she didn't wanna be made to feel accountable. 719 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,720 She didn't want to... 720 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,760 have to answer to anybody. 721 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,920 Then if she got challenged... 722 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,800 she would run away. 723 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,640 Once we started to unpick the life of Leigh Sabine, 724 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,520 the picture we were getting better was someone who was actually 725 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,680 quite robust, quite selfish, 726 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:41,360 um, quite aggressive, uh... 727 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,840 and who had a willingness to, you know, do whatever it took 728 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,680 to protect herself. 729 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,320 Obviously, great news that we had found this forensic DNA... 730 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,560 but we needed to connect it to someone. 731 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,880 Sadly, we didn't have her DNA on record 732 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,040 and that was a real challenge. 733 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,080 And then it occurred to me that she'd been 734 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,680 in palliative care prior to her death. 735 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,320 So I sent some detectives 736 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,360 to make some enquiries there with the doctors, 737 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,200 just to see if they retained any blood, any tissue samples. 738 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,040 And I was able to recover some slides 739 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,960 and derive a DNA sample 740 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,120 of Leigh Sabine, which we were able to compare 741 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,440 to-to the hair that was recovered from the packaging. 742 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,800 And we were lucky that when that sample did actually come back, 743 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,760 it was a positive match for Leigh Sabine. 744 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,640 So, that was a real breakthrough. 745 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,160 That instantly puts her firmly 746 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,520 as a prime suspect in the case. 747 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,960 This woman is now at the centre of a murder investigation, 748 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,640 but police can't arrest and question her 749 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,520 because she died from cancer two months ago. 750 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,880 So far, Leigh Sabine was the only person that had 751 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,480 any association with the body found in the garden. 752 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,320 But we still didn't know who the victim was. 753 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,520 We had no idea who the victim was. 754 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,120 When my parents left for the UK, 755 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,320 Marty was really... broken. 756 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,400 He wouldn't speak to me after that. 757 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,880 Oh, he was devastated. 758 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,160 His world came crashing down around him, 759 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,080 and so he was just saying, you know, "Do you mind if I go?" 760 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,120 and "I'm gonna go, I don't wanna lose them" 761 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,960 and, you know, and I said, 762 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,320 "Yeah, go. Do what you need to do." 763 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,320 And so he did. 764 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,520 You're living with your parents, 765 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,080 not-not relying on foster parents or anything. 766 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,520 'Cause they never really treated you the same as their own kids. 767 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,280 It's just good to have your own parents. 768 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,040 And that's the last time I seen Martin alive. 769 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,120 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky 55042

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