All language subtitles for Leviathan – The Story of Hellraiser - Andrew Robinson, Clare Higgins, Ashley Laurence, Sean Chapman (English_ASR)

If you'd sat me down

when we were sitting in the hutch at

Cicklewood 6:00 on a drafty morning in

uh in November

of 1986

and told me that 16 years later I'd

still be

sitting in the makeup chair getting the

glue and the latex and the nails slapped

on my face. I I think I would have

cried.

>> I look at Freddy Krueger and Jason, all

those kind of things. And they're, you

know, acid burns, burns, whatevers,

blood and guts. We got to do something

that was a little bit more creative.

>> The line I use most frequently these

days is no teenagers were harmed during

the making of this movie. And I think

that's what really set it apart.

>> Well, I think horror audiences are ready

for anything. They're really up for any

kind of innovation that makes as long as

it's grotesque as possible. It was such

a a unique vision by Clive Barker. It

>> was a great journey and um it was great

fun.

>> I was of course delighted to be part of

anything that has that has an impact. So

I'm thrilled thrilled about it.

>> Heller is is is a domestic drama

essentially with

wonderful and terrifying glimpses of

this metaphysical world beyond. And

Hellbound is more an examination of that

world. You know, let's get in there and

see what's up. What's it look like down

there? So those are the ones that stick

around

that come out of human drama and and and

and human conflict and and and the

dynamic of what is and what what could

be and that gap in between that we all

fall into.

>> Here it is. Here are we all these years

later talking about it. So it's

obviously made its mark.

Hey,

hey,

Hey,

hey, hey.

The whole mythology of the cenabites and

the visceral world of Hellraiser stemmed

from the unique imagination of Clyde

Barker. A genius in his own right,

expertly skilled in all mediums. Writer

and director Barker was born in

Liverpool, Muryside.

>> Clyde's one of these people's really

interested. When I first met him, he was

so interested in you and everybody he

met because as an author, you could

always he could always take a little bit

of that and he was making a little bit

mental notes. Not in a nasty way, but he

was just genuinely interested in

everybody he met.

>> Clark is wonderful. I I think because he

wrote it as well as directing it that he

knows what he wants.

>> He just relates to you on a an honest

onetoone basis. It's not this director

you were working for me type of attitude

at all.

>> Clive is simply the most creative person

I've ever met. He is a creative genius.

When we first met him, he would be

sitting there thinking of one book,

talking about another, and drawing

something else at the same time.

>> Clive was a to force. So I think he

reinvented the game.

>> I think

I' I've said this many times about Clive

and I think I' this just has to be

reconfirmed really. Clive is a creative

genius.

>> If he decided to become a philosophy

professor, he would have been probably

one of the best the world has ever seen.

I think

>> about Clive, he's also very

inspirational, you know, because um to

to workingclass kids from Liverpool and

Clive, by the way, was middle class. He

was workingass. But to a working-class

kid from Liverpool who knew he was smart

but assumed he was probably going to end

up to be a teacher or at best, you know,

if you can make it in rock and roll,

that was the only way you thought out.

>> He looked like a school boy. Very

slender. Uh lot of hair which I hadn't

got then even then. Um but

immediate excitement about the project

um and immediately he he hooks you. He's

a very engaging sort of person. Whether

that comes through all his writing or

not, I don't know.

>> He is a very clever chap. He immense

breadth of knowledge about poetry,

painting,

uh, and an understanding of psychology

and, you know, but full of energy, you

know, really sort of, you know, never

got tired and and it was very

stimulating, inspiring to to work with

him.

>> I just have a very good impression. I

just have very good memories of being on

the set. You know, there are some things

you do when you think, gosh, that was a

bit rough or uh you know, or whatever,

but there was none of that. We we all

had a great deal of fun and we laughed a

lot. Laughed a lot. It was lovely.

>> Well, it it would seem he's um sort of

out of left field. He's a sort of um

he's

and there seems to be quite a strong

sort of SNM element,

gay element in what what he does. And um

he's obviously enjoying himself.

He he was like this

he was like this alien,

you know. He was it was amazing. It was

like and very appealing, very, you know,

like a choir boy. Uh like a demented

choir boy is like as has I think of of

of Clyde. I seem to remember somebody

saying u they'd seen a picture of him

eating a pizza off a slab in a in in a

morttery

which I think probably sums him up. feel

like he's always been the same furnace

blazing away creating these

extraordinary pieces forging new

material. And um in some senses that was

a a golden moment those early days of

theater where we were all despite having

no resources working very closely on

things we were very passionate about.

First published in 1986 in the Night

Visions anthology series, The Hellbound

Heart was written by Barker with the

intention of becoming a film. The novela

would be later re-released in 1988 as a

standalone title after the success of

the film.

>> It's a horror film, unapologetically a

horror film. Uh it's a horror film I

hope which is going to have a certain uh

uh impact simply because it it's it

deals with the same

>> Frank and their search for pleasure.

>> Yes. Really just structurally in the

script it is I suppose it is a love

story. There's I suppose there's two

love stories. There's um Julia and her

husband and then there's Julia and

whatever you'd call him

>> at some point where it said Hellraiser

colon a love story which I thought was

lovely but I think New World knew they

couldn't tell it's a horror film if it

had that that that little bit on the

end.

>> Hellraiser is about you know it's a love

story about obsessive love, dark love.

So you know if if an audience gets that

it's kind of a bonus. And when you hear

the word love, you think romance, right?

What goes on between Julie and Frank is

sexual obsession.

>> So, you've got again this central

element of um Hellraiser is this love

story between a a woman and a man with

no skin. I've always thought it's like a

sort of kind of a bit of a tragic sort

of love triangle really that you got

these three characters that um you know

all all of their um sort of attentions

are are kind of drawn in in different

directions.

>> This this unfrequented love and about

the fact of this box then creates this

this this machine this this this whole

world and emerges.

>> What can I say? It was a bizarre

situation. I mean it was all sort of you

know flirty flirty and um you know both

thinking well shagging really it's about

taking your desires to its logical

conclusion

in the case of Frank you know that

restless hunger that greed for

experience

>> with their partnership now firmly formed

Fig and Barker would set out to attract

interest in their nolla a hellbound

heart.

After expanding into film production

with notable successes in the early

1980s, British entrepreneur Richard

Branson's Virgin Films consequently

would announce in 1983 that they would

be investing 14 million in a series of

movies. By 1986, Virgin Films developed

an interest in Hellraiser with the

prospect of developing it into a feature

film. I was introduced to Clyde by a

mutual friend and he said, "I want to

make a film." And I said, "But I want to

produce a film." He said, "I want to

make a horror film." I said, "Well,

fine. That's popular genre at the

moment." And we're talking 1986.

And

we decided, "Okay, cheap. Three people

in a house and we'll go from there." The

putting together um of the financing, I

hadn't got a clue. You know, the thing

about being a producer is you're jack of

all trades and master of none. Uh, and

anyone can be a producer. You just have

to have a script under your arm. But

what um I did was I thought, right,

okay, who's making who's financing

stuff? And at that time, Virgin were

making films, Virgin Films. So, we

started with them

and they said yes. I think Virgin backed

out because they didn't think it sat

with it its images as a a family

entertainment.

Clive and Chris took themselves off to

to LA and Los Angeles and went see New

World cuz they had a track record in

this type of genre and they said

maybe we'll come and see you. Um then we

had this extraordinary tea in the rits

where the chap from New World guy called

David Saunders asked us to come and have

tea in the rits with him and of course

neither of us had a tie at the time. I

mean you have to have a tie to have tea

in the rits. So he scrubbed around,

bought a tie in Beric Street or

something and went down to the Ritz, had

tea with David Saunders where he said,

"We don't want to do this." And Clive

and I said, "You're mad. It's, you know,

you can't lose on any we turned them

around during tea. They teamed up with

Virgin. And then just as we were closing

the financing, Virgin Films suddenly

stopped doing it and we managed to

persuade New World to take on the whole

budget, which was about £900,000 then.

Um, and we

then went off and made it for that.

>> I think probably Virgin regretted losing

the film to be honest with you.

>> Boasting a cast of newcomers, Hollywood

stars, classically trained British

theater actors, and friends of director

Clyde Barker, the characters that were

first created in the novela The

Hellbound Heart would emerge from page

to screen and become some of the most

iconic characters in horror genre

history.

We've got Frank there. Um you've then

got his brother Larry who's the complete

opposite who just wants to have a normal

relationship

uh with his wife Julia.

>> So the story of these two brothers, one

of whom clearly is um much more

charismatic and uh exciting particularly

to Julia. Um, and so poor Larry is a

little bit of a um a wet rag by

comparison with the sort of um tornado

that Frank must be.

>> Larry is this pathetic downtrodden

under the thumb milk weed. And what Andy

does is he he plays he plays Larry so

far down here that when he's playing

Frank in Larry's skin at the end, he's

got everywhere to go to ramp it up, come

to daddy, all of that stuff

is is fantastic. New World wanted us to

have an American in there. So we ended

up with Andy Robinson who was great,

really good fun really and because he'd

been such a good villain in um Dirty

Harry, you know, it sort of brought bit

of subtext to it all and and it did work

very well. I was excited that we had

Scorpio from Dirty Harry coming to be in

Hellraiser cuz I'd seen the movie and

and and loved it and then knew all the

lines for, you know, you feeling lucky.

It was out of his comfort zone. He had

no idea what he was doing. He had no

idea what was going on

and yet he embraced every moment of it

and was excited.

>> Clive could charm birds out of a tree

and uh and and and the script was so

interesting and so weird uh and and I

happen to love weirdness. So, I mean,

you know, there was no question that,

you know, and and going to London where

I went to school and I could hang out

and see old friends and whatever. There

there was nothing there were no

negatives about this job. I'm paid well.

I assume that the check would clear the

bank.

>> Julia, his wife, is English and looks

perhaps 10 years is junior. She is

[ __ ]

Um, wicked stepmother, evil queen.

>> In the middle is Julia. Now Julia is

this in a way she's the driving force

for the story once once Frank has been

um dragged away by the cenabites. She is

the hope and it's only that she has

desires strong and dark enough that

allows the story to take place. So she

is really the means to to bring our

anti-hero back into the world. I mean

this this this

dark mysterious

woman that he totally falls head over

heels for and you know and and who was

absolutely the wrong was the wrong

person for him ever to get involved

with. He could never satisfy her. What

whatever her needs were could never

satisfy her.

>> The relationship between Frank and Julia

is is an extreme one. Um, I mean it goes

into the areas of possibly being

psychotic or I don't it's hard to talk

about in real terms because it's

fantasy.

Um, but yes, obviously there's something

about that relationship that people do

find compelling.

>> What lengths some women will go to for a

good [ __ ]

>> How did I uh end up playing Julia? Well,

yes, Clive, it was really very simple.

Clive sent me a script of the film and I

read it. I I I was doing something else

at the time and I I knew I was going on

to do something else and I realized I

could do I could do it in terms of time

but I turned it down twice initially um

because as I say I I I don't watch

horror

and um I did think the script was pretty

violent. Cla Higgins on Heroza was an

interesting thing because she

technically is the star of

>> I think I spoke to Clive over the phone

for quite a long time and I was just

sort of enchanted by him and I thought

he had such a wonderful um

he has his own well as everybody knows

who knows Clive's work he has a million

different uh life forms going on inside

his head. I thought he was extremely

bright.

and very imaginative and I liked him

enormously when we spoke and so I did

it. I decided to do it.

>> She's wonderful. She she's the best

thing in it to be honest. She's a

brilliant actress. There's the shot in

the mirror when she's wiping the blood

off her face and there's just a look

that's in her eyes that that just is

just clear. She's fabulous as a

character. She was evil. She played it

evil. You know, even on a normal line,

there was something sinister behind it.

She she added that to it and you

couldn't stop watching her on on set.

>> Kiss Frank.

>> Frank is the ultimate person who wants

to experience everything. He really

wants he only it appears he only feels

alive when he's actually physically

enjoying sex and having had sex and

every permutation he can think of. He

wants his flesh to experience more. Then

Frank did shag his um his own brother's

wife in her wedding gown. I mean that's

a pretty am I right? Yeah. It's naughty

that isn't it?

It's bastard.

A dirty bastard

as we would say in Liverpool.

>> The character of of Frank as played by

Sha uh obviously very odd person and uh

you know with bizarre ideas about how to

get a buzz out of life, entering hell

and shagging for England or whatever he

So had he was a nasty piece of work.

Sean and I Sean and I talked about, you

know, Frank and and and about putting,

you know, Frank together and Sean really

lovely man. Um,

it it but it's it's so hard because Sean

and I are are are so different. But I

really did try to take, you know,

base my Frank on a lot of Shawn's

behavior and um a sort of deliberate

sort of like low

menacing kind of thing. I met Oliver via

Robin and obviously I'd met Oliver

before but then when I got the Hell

Grazer gig

you immediately start thinking about

actors and um and I remember saying to

my wife you know Oliver would be and we

discussed it and I said and Oliver was

we all lived in Parsons the area and

Oliver was around the area and I

remember saying to him you know would

you how about it and of course he was

very interested and I got him into an

audition he met Clive and he got the

part and he was fantastic in it.

>> Selwin, I knew Swin and he thought of me

and got me along to to meet Clive Barker

who I didn't know anything about the

film or him. So I went up to production

village where I was met and interviewed

by Clyde Barker who took me through the

format and and said, "Do you mind being

rubberized from head to foot uh and

playing this sort of there's a before

and after uh uh sequence of who this

character Frank is Shan Chapman to begin

with looking quite pretty and then

emerging as an ugly [ __ ] like myself.

It takes a certain amount of courage to

be naked and to be covered in slime and

do this and do that.

>> He went through hell. He went through

hell. We we life cast him from head to

toe. Everybody had a go at sticking

pieces together and and sculpting

pieces. It's the yardage as well. When

you got a person who every single inch

of them is covered in either a suit that

was reusable or prosthetics up to here

and here that had to be replaced every

single day. He was a lot of work. And

Oliver, who was a scream, he was a

living uh hysterical actor. I I think I

hadn't met um someone who was just uh

like he was just like out of another era

plunked into to our worlds and he was

hysterical. It's like from a from a

slightly bygone age, but very charming

with it. I mean, capital C H charming.

Two men are attempting to move a bed

into the house.

>> Where I was thinking maybe it would be a

good idea if if I'm doing this movie, it

would be a good idea if people can

actually see me, see my face so that if

I'm going to auditions down the line, I

can mention to casting directors that I

was that guy in that film. Um, and they

there'd be a recognition factor.

I think that might have been a wrong

choice. You could have done both cuz no

one would have recognized him as as been

hidden a room of a man to interpret in

the same scene.

>> I don't know really. I I I I'm wasn't

that involved with that moment in terms

of Clive was clearly keen to to offer us

something and um uh and I was very happy

to leave it to his discretion. I don't

know what would have happened if I

hadn't done the workman. Of course the

workman become historic character and

people remember the film mainly for the

removal man. Um and uh uh so of course I

haven't looked back.

I honestly I don't think it was I mean

it was no more than

you know 5 minutes of of idle thought. I

don't think there was ever any doubt in

my head that this this guy with with the

the pins was a bit more interesting than

the mattress delivery guy. So, uh was

certainly always I think Clive's

intention that I that I would play pin

head. It was certainly always mine.

>> The leader of this quartet has pins

driven into his head at inch intervals.

They are ageless experts in

uh the art of refined pleasure and even

more refined pain.

>> Thing I want to say about pin head

and it's been backed up when they tried

it another way which is pinhead is 99%

Doug and 1% us what we do. Doug's voice

is then the sort of like the icing on

the cake because he has a beautiful

voice. It's a lovely classical English

fluid voice that really comes out. And I

think that's where the character was

really born where where Doug really

discovered that role was by when he

spoke the lines.

>> Best friend, worst nightmare

because

I owe so much to having played this

part, but the actual experience,

physical experience of being put in

sensory deprivation was fairly fairly

tough.

Um, but yeah, so best friend, worst

nightmare.

>> I think the scariest character in

Hellraiser. There was something totally

disturbing about those constantly

chattering teeth and those blind eyes

and the sort of, you know, hands going

into Kirsty's mouth. And it's just

>> when we first discussed um the Chashra,

he basically described him as the family

dog.

um that you had Pin Head who was

definitely the lead cmite, you had the

female semibite, you had uh Butterball

who was kind of the surgeon and uh

and then Chashra was going to be the

kind of the

literally the leapy around dog who would

attack people. Um, the original idea was

that I would be crouching down uh and be

very much a monkey creature um in in the

way that you know part of the chattering

thing is that the monkeys chatter their

teeth or chimpanzees particularly

chatter their teeth um and I think this

is what he was thinking about.

>> Nick and I had known each other for

three years at drama school. Um then

there was a two three year two-year

break um before we got together on

Hellraiser. Um,

my memories of Nick on set were

you get up at 3:00, the car had come,

you get into a car, you get to set and

you'd sit in the makeup chair and the

poor makeup artists probably been up

half the night anyway. And so there was

this lovely

quiet

period on set where everybody would just

sit there being kind of slightly zen as

everybody got on with their makeup and

then Nick would come in. Good morning

everybody. Hi. How are you? Nice to see

you. We go. Oh no. Nick, no. It's 500

a.m. Anyway, what's it doing? Ha. It's

good. No, Nick. Please be quiet. Please.

That stumps my memory. That was what was

going through my head cuz he was so

jolly at 5:00 a.m. and everybody else

was like, "Oh,

you know, 5:00 a.m.

>> A fat sweating monster whose eyes are

covered by dark glasses."

>> Simon says a sort of smalish quieter

person. I think we're sort of slightly

sort of all struck by the whole thing.

>> A thin a thin guy in a fat man's body. A

thin short guy in a fat man's body. I

rang Clive after a couple of years to

see what I was up to and um he said,

"I've just done Oh, sorry. Nice to speak

to you. I've just done these couple of

films and um they weren't very good, but

I've persuaded them to let me direct the

next one. He doesn't have this accent at

all, but I can't do Liverpool. Um would

you like a part? Would you like to play

a monster in the next film?" I went,

"Yeah." Thinking

it's probably on a tiny

filmed on a Super Eight camera. He said,

"Yeah." I said, "Yeah, yeah, that'd be

good, Clive. Thank you." I really didn't

think it was going to be like a big

budget film or reasonable budget film.

Uh, and he said, "Uh, uh, yeah. Do you

want to play a monster for me?" Yeah. He

said, "There might be a little bit of

makeup." Yeah, it's fine. I think Simon,

uh, he was double booked. Um, he's doing

a play. I'm not sure if he's actually

performing or doing rehearsals that day.

Um, but yeah, they needed someone to

step in. So, um, I, uh, got talked into

it. I didn't want to do it. I got talked

and talked for for about a day. Um yeah,

and got talked into it and uh

um the following day, yeah, bald cap um

face blacked out. Um put the suit on and

then I was coached by um Jane Jane Wild

Goose, the costume designer on how to

sort of act in the in the uh in the

costume. Um so I had the the head um to

go on as well, the mask, uh glasses on

top of that. Um, and then I was, yeah,

kind of shuffled onto the onto the stage

and just sort of directed for a few, um,

a few shots.

>> A woman whose neck is pinned open like a

vivisection specimen.

>> Grace, um, was there, but um, didn't

really appear to want to be there most

of the time. She came in, did her lines

very beautifully, I thought. And I

remember the first time the makeup went

on, it really upset her to look into the

mirror and see the face that she'd seen

looking back all her life be so

different. And I think the other thing

that got to her was just how intimidated

everybody else was by her. It wasn't the

Makeup Effect crew. The Makeup Effect

crew would see her go in and knew who

she was and would treat her the same.

But other people on the crew, I think it

was a, you know, a fairly

hard process for her to go to. And

that's quite normal. I mean, female

actresses often find when you do when

you turn them into hideous monsters that

this is not what they're used to. This

is not what they're used to looking at.

>> The costumes were

solid leather, very heavy solid leather.

And I didn't think I don't think she

enjoyed wearing the costumes, which is

why she didn't come back for the f for

the second film. Um, but she came and

did a beautiful job. And I thought the

look in her eyes and again with Little

John's makeup on the film um she was

perfect.

>> Wearing prosthetic makeup is um is

torturous at the best of times. And at

the end of the day, we would um laugh

and joke and even when it was late into

the night um taking the makeup off in

the last hour of the day when everyone

else has long gone home, the prosthetic

makeup artists are still taking off

makeup. Interdimensional creatures or

demons. The cenites would attract the

attention of filmgoers across the world.

Before Hellraiser, demons in films were

presented as large horned creatures or

evil entities. However, Barker's

creations were developed through

fantastical costumes and amazing special

makeup effects.

>> We've gone out of our way, Bob Keen's

team and and myself have gone out of the

way to design monsters which are not

going to really resemble anything that

would have been seen before. That's my

hope. Anyway, Bobkin used to take a

group of us over to Clive's flat in

Crouchin

couple of times a month if I remember.

Um, and we go over and literally

try and come up with ideas for

cenabites. The only the only ones that

Clive had really realized was what

became known as Pin Head.

>> The average day at first was the the

drawings and the designs. So, we're

doing um drawings of Zenobites and doing

all this research into material that was

um well, it was horrific and shocking at

the time. I mean, people weren't pierced

in those days. And so, looking at

pictures of all these different

piercings was really quite shocking.

>> I'd seen one drawing of Pin Head um and

that's all I knew. And it was a a man

with some scars and some some spikes

sticking out of his head.

>> I've got a drawing that I did of Pin

Head.

So there was this drawing that um that

Clive did which when you see it you're

just like oh so we we literally did make

that and there's a I think there's an

elegance and uh there's a beauty to it

that came um that got added into Clive's

drawing and and so you could argue oh

that it was Clive's completely design

but there was a time when we were

actually um exploring other things and I

did this one that was really um cuz

that's what I was into was a very ethnic

looking um uh pin head. And so he wasn't

quite it wasn't about symmetry and um

and fine pins. It was a lot about um uh

um um uh piercings and scarification

and um gosh, I I haven't seen the

picture for a long time.

>> I had seen a design for the makeup, so I

had a vague idea of what it was going to

look like. There were actually two

designs. I think one was a much looser,

more tribal um uh thing with more

piercings and uh uh more kind of uh

African inspired in a way.

But I think I think Clive was always

coming back to the to this to this

precise, neat, controlled grid iron

look. So there was an the the design

stage where we were just um doing

designs and then taking them along to

Clive and that was a really great

collaborative process where we we're

just kicking around designs with him. It

was such a fertile soil of creativity

cuz he was so um he was so magnanimous

with his genius cuz to me he was a

genius. And um and then we once we got

to loc um sort of uh understand what the

designs were somehow it got allocated

cuz I was young on the team. I wouldn't

have known how they decided that, but um

I did a drawing of the female zenobite

in its early stages which had um a spike

through its cheek and Clive made some

suggestions about bringing the the spike

down and and and I'd done a wound on the

neck and opening up that wound in a very

um vaginal like manner. The first time

um we were led onto the set,

the crew didn't know that Nick and I

were blind. Um so

we were led onto the set and um the

first assistant director came up and

said, "You could kind of we could only

adjust here." I could only just hear

saying, "Okay, we need you to we're

going to get you to go over here and and

turn there. Move over here. Pick that

up. Pick that." I don't know if it was

pick that up, but turn over here, do

that, move there. And I was going

Nick was going

and and they're going, "What?" No, no.

Okay, so you got that. And the next

thing we knew, there was action.

And we were like, "What?" One of the

changes that was made to the Chashura

makeup was that in the original makeup,

he had short pointed teeth um as if

they'd been filed down. Um, and they

were made and and they were tested,

but Clive thought that they made him too

inhuman. And actually, you really needed

to see the fact that he was a human. I

think one of the main stipulations when

I was designing Pin Head is that Clive

said he wanted Doug to be there. He

wanted to see Doug through the

character. So, consequently, the makeup

is barely 2 3 mil thick at the best, and

he wanted to keep Doug's face in there.

I've always said that the the wearing

the makeup for me was fine as long as

you were working. It's the killing time

that's the issue. Uh you just, you know,

and and everybody knows that that uh in

makeup or out of makeup, the average day

on a film set um is 10% working and 90%

waiting. And that's hard enough at the

best of times, but you're carrying that

makeup around all day.

And uh with the first two movies, the

costume was not easy to take off either.

So the costume tended to stay on as

well. You just you want to be able to

just lift lift that off and put it down

and be yourself for a while.

>> Head is so cold because they were

originally pins. So when we designed um

I took Clive's original drawing which

say had like little spikes sticking out

very more tribal. I changed that to

pins. Um, and we'd thought about various

different options and Clive liked the

pins. It was very subtle, very thin.

>> So, the next step in the process for me

was going to Critical Wood to screen

test the makeup. So, that was the first

time I had the makeup applied and then

it took about 6 hours, I think, uh, to

put the whole thing on. And it's a

strange experience first time you go

through it. I think I was kind of zoned

out having kind of mystic experience by

the end of it. Not at all inappropriate

for playing a part like Pen had.

>> So we got to the point where shooting

was going to start. And they took some

test photographs, a lot of which are

still banding around now in some of the

books, very blue tinged photographs

against a rather tatty looking

wallpaper. I think we shot a production

village on the on the set and you

couldn't see the pins and that was it.

So we thought bugger and Cly said and I

didn't say I'm not I'm I hope I'm not an

I told you so person. Um but the thing

is I said look you know you can't see

the pins. So we all agreed. So we said

we've got to go bigger. So we turned

them into nails. So we came up with the

idea is we found some brass rod. There's

a company called KN&S I think that makes

architectural model maker supplies and

they do a brass a hollow brass rod. So

we cut inch lengths of hollow brass rod

about let's say about 2 or 3 mil thick

and we then cut off the tops of lots of

brass nails and super glue them to tops

of those rods. All we then had to do was

snip the tiny little pin heads off the

pins and simply insert the rods over the

top of the pins, which actually made it

much much easier because at the end of

the day, all you do is you take Doug

into the makeup room. You would then

simply pull the nails off the pins cuz

they were simply sitting there. They

fit, should we say, comfortably tightly,

but not so tightly you couldn't simply

pull them off. They wouldn't drop off.

But you pulled them off, took makeup

off, pulled the pins out the back, and

then the next day you would push the pin

through, put the new nail on the top,

and that was it. So he was never called

nail head. He just remained as pin head.

>> You look in the mirror and you've

disappeared. You're not there anymore,

which is unsettling.

I could see my ears

and my mouth and my eyes. That was it.

Um, and I sat on my own in front of the

mirror for

15, 20 minutes maybe,

just starting to get to know this guy

and just staring. Um, and then starting

to see what happened if I

raised an eyebrow or if I frowned or and

now if I try saying something like, "No

tears, please. It's a waste of good

suffering." What what does this look

look like? Okay. All right. And and and

becoming very excited. That was the

first time that the whole thing really

caught fire for me

>> with both the skills of problem solver

Bob Keane and special effects wizard

Jeff Pass. Image Animation was formed in

Sheperton Studios.

>> I think with Image Animation, I think

we'd come up with the name before

Hellraiser when we got the small shed in

Sheperton, which was only about 3 or

four months beforehand. So we'd finished

Highlander, moved to Sheperton. We'd set

up a small company in a shed, done a

couple of small jobs. It was a few

little props, bits and pieces for I

think a couple of couple of small films

or and a couple of big films, but

subcontracted work. What we wanted to do

is create a company that would have new

um new blood, right? We'd worked for a

lot of people who had been in the

industry for a long time, and we felt

that the industry really needed an

injection of new ideas. So, a lot of the

time we would uh tackle jobs together

and we would both we would both

supervise. I think Jeff is a really good

makeup artist and works out really well

at those things. And I'm really good

special effects person who can solve

problems.

>> There about 10 of us.

I honestly I think we had about 3 months

3 or 4 months before filming started to

actually sort of build the stuff which

is a reasonable length of time for the

amount of work we have to do. Um but it

it it got on. We organized the place. We

got stuff found out, you know, we found

out what we had to do and um just took

it from there.

>> The way I ended up working on uh

Hellraiser is that very simply that that

neither Bob nor Jeff knew how to drive a

vehicle. And so as they were trying to

run a a business and actually trying to

run a film, um they had no one to drive

the van. And and as I was working in a

college at the time, it was my summer

holidays, they said, "Can you pop in for

a couple of weeks and drive a van while

we set up a film?" And three and a half

years later I was still there. So I was

working down the market I in Covent

Garden um and Camden Lock. I was I'd

been to our college and uh after that I

started sculpting little hobgoblins

which were um based on leprechaorns and

pukus and um they were sold in little

jars and um I've been doing it for about

a month. Uh and um one day uh this guy

came along and really liked what I was

doing and said he was putting a team

together for a film. That was Bob Keane

and um I think he said the film was due

to start in about 3 months time. So um

we had a couple of meetings. He

definitely wanted me on board and um and

that was it. It was, you know, just

meetings around his flat. Uh, and um, a

very small team of people and, um, of

course, every 2 months get another phone

call saying the film's gone back again.

So, it was about 6 months before we

actually started doing anything.

>> So, this was my first feature film. So,

done a commercial, but this is my first

feature film. I didn't know how things

worked. I was literally coming in not

knowing how I didn't even actually know

how prosthetic makeup was made or done.

I was going to learn all that um through

the production of the film.

>> It's like a little uh it was like a

youth club for makeup effects. You know,

>> I think the liaison between uh costume

makeup was obviously vital. Um and

mercifully we all got on like a house on

fire. Uh as I say, I'm still in touch

with Roy and Jeff's makeup guys after

nearly 30 years. Uh, so we must have had

a good time. The other thing I remember

about uh Roy and Jeff, they seem to have

this um plethora of pretty young boys uh

working makeup um all just waiting to be

cougarized. Um I hasten to add I was

only 28 at the time, but in comparison,

you know, so so that was good fun

getting to know their entire makeup crew

over the period of time, one by one.

I remember it was it was something that

um you'd be loathed to ask in the the

workshop to have to go and get condoms

and KY jelly because uh condoms were

made out of latex which was the bread

and butter of prosthetics in those days

and sheet latex was something that you

just constantly need. Um and uh and KY

Jelly was used to um make something uh

appear wet under the lights of the

cameras stay constantly wet. And it was

great cuz you could have a little drip

like there's a little drip on Frank's

chin, a little bit of KY jelly and it

would just stay there for hours and he

and it would wiggle about. Um the nature

of KY jelly was such that uh it was just

perfect for our uses. But gods was it

embarrassing to have to go into a

supermarket and have to buy boxes and

boxes of condoms of KY Jelly.

>> I can remember horrified walking into a

chemist and saying, "I'd like to buy

every condom you have." And the man

looking at me very straight lace looked

at me. I said, "Are you going to a

party?"

And I thought, "Am I going to say no?

I'm going to wash them, cut them up, and

stick them on someone's face or no, I'm

going to a party." I said, "I'm going."

on the blood splattered floor, a box

some 6 in.

>> You have to negotiate your way through

that and and

you you meet Penhead and he's not he's

not straight into you with the hooks and

chains and and tearing the soul apart.

He wants to stop and have a good

conversation about you and who you are

and what makes you tick and what your

dreams are. You know, it seems a bit

boring to just say, "Okay, it's a

Chinese puzzle box. let's go and get

some Chinese symbols. It would look like

a tattoo basically. Um and um so I just

played around and it it was always

supposed to be made by this French

puzzle box maker, but if you put him in

a certain time, say 1750s or whatever,

then France had an empire and that

empire went to China and that empire

went to Arabia

and North Africa. So you can then start

looking at the symbols of those places

and also old languages.

>> It was the box. It was a box. It was a

puzzle box. You open the puzzle box, it

would took you to hell. That all grew

up. Or or maybe Clive had it. He just

didn't need to tell it to us. But it was

it was, you know, or maybe he told it to

Simon. I don't know. But, you know, it

was something I needed to know at the

time. Um, and I think also that there's

a great deal of um, we didn't know what

we we didn't know this this was going to

be huge successful film.

>> There are things hidden away in Yeah.

there there's lots of symbols which try

and explain

what will happen uh, if you open the box

or how to open the box, but you've got

to know what you're looking at. Um,

and

there's a strange symbolism which

shows

uh Larry's face or a face pulled apart,

but you've got her nowhere to look on

the box. And

uh I was showing someone last night

there's what looks like could be a very

beautiful woman with a a

hook going through her eye. But again,

you got to know where where it is, once

you've seen it. So even even the

engineer who who's once you've seen it,

you can see it all the time.

>> So we had one box which had a little

syringe in the bottom that would push

the syringe would push it up and then a

little motor inside would kick in and

drive it go.

That would be one box and then we'd

she'd put a finger in and then it would

reverse. And then we had another box

that was like a shape of a of a diamond

cut in the wood. So it would literally

lift up, turn, and then when it came

down again, the corners would create a

diamond effect. And then we had another

box that would open up on on the top and

another box that did other things. So

there's probably about eight boxes to

make it do all of those little shiny

tricks to make you believe that you'd

seen one box do everything. Even this

stupid puzzle box which doesn't seem to

have any use whatsoever. Boring.

Who the heck can that be?

Oh, such sights.

Weirdo.

>> I was thrilled when I was on Scooby-Doo.

That that's probably been one of the

highlights. Um, and um, I should have

done a royalty deal really um, because

it's now produced all over the world.

Um, I get emails from all over the world

um, saying, "How did you do this? Can

you give me some advice? I'd like to do

some." And um,

yeah. So, so it's nice, but you're not

producing an icon when you're doing it.

You're making a box.

>> The birth of Frank remains one of the

most memorable. And what is great about

that scene is now 20 minutes into

whatever it is into the movie, it's the

first big bump and scare in the movie,

you go, "Oh my god, this is amazing."

And you got to remember 1987, nobody

have seen anything like that at all.

>> This is where the American producers

were wonderful was a long time after the

film, you know, we'd finished the film

and the film moved on, we'd all gone on

to do other things. They said, "Let's go

back. Let's do let's do some pickups.

let's set a small unit up. Let's come up

with a really great birthing sequence.

And we started completely a new

um we had the luxury of a raised stage

so we could work underneath. Uh we built

lots and lots of puppet rigs.

We had this wonderful goo pumping

material which would pump up methyl

cellios by the gallon. it would all come

up and we could work through the goo cuz

we had like rubber

um gusseting that would hold all the goo

in still.

>> Originally the the Frank was bricked up

behind the wall and he just falls out

the wall and then he starts talking and

and we we built a puppet um

a lip syncing puppet that just was too

complicated for its own good really. I

mean, it was it was it was a fairly

simple Rob puppet with with with cable

control facial expressions, but it it

just took too many of us to coordinate

it. We never really

we never really got it together. It he

looked like some thing out of a a tomb

of mummies. Um and he was inside this

wall and he was um he was there the the

bottom half of him. So, there was

different animatronic ones that we made.

We made one where he was sat in the room

and then there was this one where he was

going to come out of the wall. I'm not

quite sure um how he was going to

actually be the concept of how how his

birth was actually started when we were

doing him like that.

>> Then we did a lot of stuff where we were

doing uh wax. So we'd have the finished

item and then we'd have wax heads on

that. But on animatronics

and we'd have veins that were little guy

in the months before uh for Hellraiser.

He did a soap commercial um for uh for a

soap powder called Breeze and it was

shot at Tree Film Studios and it was

basically um it was basically uh Legend

had just come out and the director

wanted to remake Legend as a as a

30-second soap commercial. So, we'd used

this kid um as a fairy and he was really

good and um and so we got him back to

wear this Frank suit uh for that one

brief scene where he crawls along the

floor. The molding process is pretty

weird process when you you cover

someone's head entirely

in uh

algenate which is what we what you have

your teeth cast with and then to back

that up a plaster bandages over the top.

Anybody in their right mind is going to

find that claustrophobic.

>> There were three stages to skin Frank

the puppet. Stage one, which was the

dried sort of looking makeup, and stage

two, which is the very red makeup. Cliff

Wallace did the stage three makeup,

which was then applied on top of my

makeup to save time. So, so it worked.

>> I wor with Cliff Wallace on uh the suit

for skinned Frank. He had um these ribs

that were made. I remember when Bob said

to me, um, uh, yeah, just make them out

of this bit of perspects. I was like,

huh? Yeah, yeah, cut some perspects out

and then heat it into the shape that you

want. And I remember thinking, this is

insane. That will never look good. To

me, I was like, they should be sculpted.

And and it was just like, yeah, yeah,

know a big sheet of white picss that you

had done. Uh,

don't know what you're doing. Sorry. So,

so, so I cut out these um ribs and and

sanded them and tried to make them look

a bit organic rather than this flat

shiny thing. And then made these ribs

and then I got to put them on um with

Cliff um used to help him um when I

could uh in the makeup. And now looking

at the photographs, the depth of his um

chest is um when you know what what it

is, it just looks ridiculous to me. But

when you don't know, it kind of looks ah

that looks interesting how the depth

that's created on this this this makeup

of this bodysuit.

>> There's the final stage which was the

the sort of surface anatomy stage where

um I think Barry Norman described it as

looking like a raspberry ripple. It's

the it's the sort of bloody skin stage.

And there was the the stage before that

which was the the the skinned uh the

skin and um

and went and bought the weirdest skull I

could find which was the skull of a

South American tape hair and it cost me

£35 and I got told off cuz I'd spent

another £5.

And then I bought three Ibex

horns and I stuck the horns in its eye

sockets.

And uh and the rest of it was just a

plastic skeleton or two plastic

skeletons stuck together with a really

long neck. And um yeah, I'm still making

[ __ ] out of bones really. Nothing much

has changed.

>> It was a funny looking cuz it was like

this. How are they ever going to turn

that into something usable? cuz um on

one hand it was an interesting looking

demon with its um you know the skull and

the horns and everything and then the

the sheet latex with with bits of veins

looked a bit iffy but you thought oh

well you never know in those days film

um

it was it wasn't like high definition

film so there was everything looked not

quite brilliant in our world to the

naked eye and we were just constantly uh

reassuring people that um that on the

the definition of film would uh make it

all look good and and me on my first

film I didn't know that that was it but

I'd been learned like a parrot how to to

to reassure people that that was the

case and that was the case isn't it and

um and so things had this lovely quality

on film in those that was shot in those

days

>> put together remarkably quickly about

four days and then um thrown in a fire

for about 10 minutes and shot So, one of

those effects that just sort of fell out

of the back of the lorry and went and

went straight for onto set and it they

got what they got with that. And uh for

the for the way it's edited, it works.

It works, but it's one of those,

you know, it's not it's not something

you want to do every single day of the

week. Is an effect that quick.

>> It was basically a couple of skeletons

stuck together um with some uh with some

dental dam for wings and uh a couple of

rods out the back of it. three or four

of us wiggling it and trying to give it

some semblance of life. Not very well

really.

>> From an alternative metal band to a

classical composer, the music of

Hellraiser would fast become one of the

film's strongest features, complimenting

the horror presented on screen. I was

made aware of the fact that initially

Clive's concept of the music was that it

was going to be performed by a band

called Coil that were friends of his uh

London friends and uh uh

I was not familiar with their music.

Uh I have since become familiar with it

and and I must say it's stunning music.

It's stunning stunning music. Uh, at the

time it was pretty new, novel,

extraordinarily novel. The industrial

thing. It was it wasn't it wasn't

mainstream. Still isn't really

mainstream. Never will be.

>> The problem with our experience was that

we never got to bring the the music to

to its full fruition. I mean, uh, the

the pieces that we have, uh, the pieces

that we eventually released on on the

unreleased themester Hellraiser, which

is the record, um, were essentially

demos of our intentions for the piece.

Tony arrives in London and sits down and

says, "I need to have a meeting. We

should have a meeting with with Coyle

Clive because there's certain things

that a film score needs to do which has

to do with having the music being

scene specific and cut specific.

>> So we produced all of the music

electronically and via sampling. But the

intention was uh once we produced the

musical ideas that we would then take

them to Clive and to the production team

and say this is what we think would be

right for this section and this section

and this section. If you're good with

that then we'll go the extra step and

we'll bring in our regular musical

collaborators because we worked with

string people on the coil records.

>> I did meet with Coyle out of courtesy.

They however after qu I questioned them

about their ability to write music for

film uh and I asked some pretty pointed

technical questions.

>> Unfortunately the the project never

quite reached um fruition and so we we

we never did actually kind of end up

with with that plan.

>> The question I think he put to coil was

hey guys have you ever done this before?

Do you understand the idea the concept

of writing to picture and the necessity

to have things frame accurate? And I

think they said, "No, this is not our

thing. We were going to do pretty much

uh, you know, sort of uh sound design

stuff that would just act as a as a bed

for the image."

>> They bow out and Chris Young was was

hired.

>> But suffice to say, Tony had had enough

positive experiences with me being the

head of postp production at New World

and I'd done numerous films for them

back then. I became kind of the in-house

guy. It was Tony Randall that suggested

Christopher Young. And Christopher Young

then was just starting out. Little do we

know how big he would become, but he was

a joy. Absolute joy. He composed it. And

then we went to Munich and recorded it.

Uh, and it was just a joy. Um,

incredibly easy, very exciting in those

days to have a full orchestra

playing music to the clips of your film

on a big screen is was really very

exciting. So, I think the score helped

uh make the film become the cult classic

that it's become. I'm not saying that it

was a great score. I'm just saying the

sonori, the fact that it's an orchestra

and not a sense score. I think in for

this picture did help. Released on the

11th of September in 1987 in the UK and

the 18th of September in the USA,

Hellraiser would go on to receive mixed

critical reviews but financial success.

But now let me put a question to you.

Have you ever been to a movie, discussed

it with other people, and then wondered

whether you'd all seen the same picture?

I've just had that kind of experience

with something called Hellraiser. This

is a British horror pick written and

directed by one Clive Barker who

according to some admiring sources has

gleefully broken the rules of the genre

andor produced a genuine original. I

read these comments with total be

amusement because as far as I'm

concerned, Hellraiser is a nasty little

film that I watched with a deep and if

not original, then certainly genuine

loathing. I found the whole thing grubby

and gratuitously violent, though I dare

say Clive Barker and his admirers would

have me believe that I missed the point

and it's all supposed to be tongue and

cheek. But that won't wash because the

film is devoid of both wit and humor. If

this is gleefully breaking the rules of

the genre, I could only wish that he'd

left the damn rules alone. Inadequate

though they might have been.

>> I loved it from the start. I I thought

everything had come together

brilliantly. I mean, of course, the odd

thing is, especially playing a character

who I think was only on screen for about

10 minutes, there was there was an awful

lot of the movie that I'd never seen.

had had no contact with at all. So, uh,

seeing that all come together was great.

We knew it was

they've been a, you know, a good thing,

but not like now. You didn't don't

didn't get the instant feedback. It's

not like

you could just log on and get whole load

of comments. This is great, this is bad,

or anything like that. That simply

didn't exist. The only way you got fan

mail was through your agent. Um, and

that's when kind of when you got

feedback.

>> Uh, I I went to see the film with my

mom, uh, the first one, and she kind of

spent the whole time like this whenever

the center came on. I was going, "Mom,

no, no, this is me. Yeah, but it's

horrible." Yeah. So, she never really

saw she saw the other bits, but never

when we were on screen.

>> When I first saw the film, I think it

was at the press showing and I left

halfway through because I I couldn't

handle it. I once sat in the bar and um

I'm not sure I've ever seen it all the

way through

really because I I do find it shocking

and visceral.

>> I remember seeing her raiser in 1987 and

going, "Oh my god, this is just a game

changer."

>> The the marketing of of Hellraiser did

focus on Pin Head. Um and I think the

reason for that is because it was

marketed as a horror film. So the

marketing of a film is it's almost sort

of prostituting your baby to to to the

audiences. Actually, that's a terrible

expression, but it's it's selling out

your your soul for you're selling out

your your your work for the you know,

for an audience. So you can't be

precious about the material when it

comes to the marketing. And Pinhead is a

very iconic image. You know, you see it

all sorts of places. But what a genius

marketing idea it was because I remember

and I've been in it looking at that

image and everybody around at the time

they were going what is that? That's it

was so unique that it instantly caught

your attention wherever you were. Um and

yeah, he became iconic bastard.

>> I think it was just inevitable because

all the all the interest was around the

cenites and was around pinhead. If you

were going to

uh

find a shorthand image by which people

would know what Hellraiser was, it was

Pinhead. If you showed them Julia, there

wouldn't immediately be a connection.

The character even started being

referred to as the Hellraiser. Um, you

know, how rude the day that

Doug got to be the poster boy. Why

couldn't we all been the poster people?

could have been four of us. It would

have been brilliant. Changed our

careers. It was very lucky.

>> There were um I've still got I think a

newspaper clipping that sort of like

that was written to the Evening Standard

saying, you know, sir, you know, I've

just I've just walked past a poster that

has a picture of a man with nails banged

into his head. And I think they should

be taken down. It could scare young

children and that kind of stuff. And

it's, you know, when you think of what

was even around what 87, there was still

heavy duty stuff around. Certainly my

daughter and her friends were thrilled

when Hellraiser came out. I, you know,

all the work that I'd done, all the

Shakespeare, you know, [ __ ] that. I

mean, you know, you were Hellraiser and

that that's, you know, that gave me, you

know, sort of like cred, street cred.

>> A successor to Hellraiser was soon to be

inevitable with rumors of the sequel

being whispered on the set before

production even ended. Hellraiser had

not been released, but I guess New

World, which was the American financing

company, were pleased enough with it,

uh, pleased enough, I guess, maybe with

previews and stuff that they, you know,

they had authorized the sequel. I think

rumors were sort of at the end of the

production phase when Just Hell Raiser

was coming out. I think there rumors

were about that they might do a second

one.

>> We started talking about a sequel while

uh, we were in the editing process.

There was a very strong feeling that the

film would be successful and um that so

it it really started early. Development

did not begin until a little bit later

but um yeah it was decided early on to

do a sequel. That was an era when when

hell when uh horror films were always

generating sequels and and New World

wanted their nightmare on Elm Street

basically and that's why it was green

lit early. At least the development of

it was green lit. I think we when we

knew that we were going to go with a

second film, um I Clive sort of put the

word out to the s of the key individuals

um hoping that they would be available

for us. Uh and they were. So that would

that was

really as simple as that. There had been

talk, I think, while we were making the

first film that New World were looking

at a sequel because they gave us more

time and more money part of the way

through because they were getting

excited about what they were seeing, the

the dailies that were making their way

over to Los Angeles. But you kind of

dismiss that talk as fast as you hear

it.

>> When New World talked to us about the

sequel, um, they left it up to us. I

mean, we of course we went in and said,

"Look, we've got some ideas for the

sequel. We'd like to do this. We'd like

to do that." And that sort of helped

sell it. Um, but there was no

apart from sort of script approval.

There was nothing that they were

insisting on.

Hey.