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Previously on The Hack...
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I'm friends with
Clare Rewcastle Brown,
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00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,877
the journalist and
sister-in-law of Gordon Brown.
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00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:16,878
'He's leaning in.'
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00:00:16,961 --> 00:00:19,877
Murdoch's ambition is limitless,
but he's overstepped here.
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00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,877
Part of a new operation,
Operation Weeting.
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00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,877
We're investigating
allegations of phone hacking.
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Contact of mine in the force has
been put on it. He's feeding me.
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00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,877
DAVE: This fell
into your lap, OK?
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00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,877
NICK: 'This could get
you in serious trouble.'
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00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,877
Hello. 'Dave, it's
Mike at The Sun.'
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00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,877
Give Panorama, Mike Sullivan,
13
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,877
Nick Davies anything
about our cases,
14
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,877
and you'll be strung
up for all to see.
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00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,877
NICK: I was in the database. News
Of The World, April 14th, 2002.
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00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,878
Milly Dowler.
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00:00:47,961 --> 00:00:50,877
AMELIA: 'Jingle says there is a page
on Dowler in Marquez' notebooks.'
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00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,877
The News Of The World will
not be forgiven for this.
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00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,877
I was being drawn to stories again
and again with the same theme.
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A deep-seated urge to hit
back at anybody at all
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00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,960
who takes power and abuses it.
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00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,877
WOMAN: Our guest now joining us
from the newsroom of The Guardian
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00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:11,877
is Nick Davies,
award-winning journalist
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00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:13,877
who has brought phone
hacking into the light.
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00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:17,557
Hi. Now, Nick Davies...
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00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,877
could you have
predicted the furore
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00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:23,237
that the Milly Dowler
case seems to have caused?
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00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:24,877
Predicted? No.
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00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,877
But I do think it speaks
well for the British public,
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00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:31,877
for the world public, that
a furore has been provoked.
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You have Rupert Murdoch
firmly on the ropes.
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I have to say, I'm horrified that
they closed the News Of The World.
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00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,877
Good journalists
have lost their jobs.
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00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:44,877
I believe this was a cynical
move on Murdoch's part
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to help aid his
capture of BSkyB.
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'And what do you think it is
about the Milly Dowler case
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'that has had such an impact?'
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00:01:50,961 --> 00:01:52,877
Well, what we discovered
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00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,877
was that during the period
of her disappearance,
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00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,717
News Of The World were
using a private investigator
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to listen to her voice mails,
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00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,877
so that, in itself, is
horrid, deeply personal stuff.
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00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,877
Friends and family still
thought she may have run away
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00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,877
and were imploring
her to come home.
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The voicemail filled up,
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which is why they
deleted the messages.
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00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,877
Now, friends and family
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00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,237
who had previously heard
the message, voicemail, full
49
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:17,877
were surprised by this,
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00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,877
and the presumption became
that Milly was still alive.
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00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,877
'I guess we all wanna know whether
Rupert Murdoch will feature
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'in front of your Leveson
Inquiry and what...' Ah. Ah.
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Well, before Leveson, actually,
Rupert Murdoch is due to speak
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00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,077
at the House of Commons
Media Select Committee.
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We want to get answers from him
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as to what he knew
about phone hacking,
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00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,237
widespread practice
at his newspaper,
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00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,877
when he knew about it,
and why he didn't act.
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00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,877
'Nick Davies, thank
you for joining us.'
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Thank you for having me.
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Whether Rupert bails on us, I
don't know. You could compel him.
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00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,877
The thing you need to ask is
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00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,877
can you truly compel
Murdoch to do anything?
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00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,877
Are we singing Happy Birthday?
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00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,877
So, who's getting to ask the
first question? Well, I do.
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00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,877
Though Nick is intent
on writing it for me.
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GLASS CLINKING I
think we should sing.
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00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,717
No. Happy Birthday
is a terrible song.
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00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,877
Nick thinks Happy
Birthday's fascistic.
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00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:16,917
It is culturally fascistic -
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everyone has to sing the same
song on their bloody birthday.
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00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,877
Where's the individuality?
Well, we could sing, erm...
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What's the one where we count
the candles on the birthday cake?
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Have we the energy?
Oi. Well, speech.
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At least we deserve a speech.
Yes, yes. On your feet.
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Er, no. But, OK, I would like
to thank you all for coming.
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And I would like to remind
you we have work to do.
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The Select Committee... Boo!
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The Select Committee is our chance,
with Murdoch on the stand...
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And I won't let you down.
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00:03:43,961 --> 00:03:47,237
No, no, no, Tom, I'm not saying...
Maybe I should have let you retire.
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You were gonna retire?
Move to Belgium.
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Ah. Chocolate.
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00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,877
And then with Leveson making
sure we're fully prepared...
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00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,877
Nick... Nick,
today, we celebrate.
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A prep session would've been much
more preferable to a birthday.
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00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,877
Not only are the
songs fascistic,
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00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,077
but Nick thinks birthdays
are narcissistic.
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00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,877
He likes to work. True.
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00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,877
How nice, then, that
none of his friends came,
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00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,877
just the people he works with.
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00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,077
Now you're treading a very fine
line between insulting... Sod this.
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♪ Happy birthday to you... ♪
Oh, God.
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♪ Happy birthday to you... ♪
Oh, God.
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♪ Happy birthday, dear Nick
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♪ Happy Birthday to you. ♪
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CAMERA CLICKS
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CAMERA CLICKS
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Hi. Hi.
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So, good news and bad news.
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Good news, it's all cooking
nicely for the Select Committee.
102
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,077
The bad news, you are gonna have
to give evidence at Leveson.
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00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,877
It needs your heft. It needs...
104
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,877
Look, Alan's house may have
been compromised. What?
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00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,237
He hired someone to
sweep his house for bugs.
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That person subcontracted it.
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00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,877
The person they
subcontracted it to...
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00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,320
Worked for Rees? ..was
an associate of Rees.
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00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,917
How do you know?
I can't tell you.
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But I know Rees has been bragging
about how he knows the bug sweeper.
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Are you sure?
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00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,717
Ask Alan about the socks
he keeps under the piano.
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What socks?
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00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,877
Oh, Christ. It's true?!
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I like, erm...
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I get a better feel for the
piano if I play barefoot.
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00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,557
Alan, you do not have
good hiring practices.
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Seems possible to claim.
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00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,877
You hired someone
to debug your house,
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00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,877
and instead, they may
have compromised...
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00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,160
Are my children in danger?
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00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,877
Dave doesn't think so.
Don't know about you and me.
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00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,960
We've got Murdoch on the stand.
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They know they're being hunted.
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Cornered animal, the most
vicious animal of all.
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00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,960
Fuck.
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SIGHS
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00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,960
I thought the worst
of it was over.
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00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:06,878
HORN BEEPS
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00:06:06,961 --> 00:06:09,877
The day after Cameron
announced the Leveson Inquiry
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00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,877
into phone hacking, the
CMS Select Committee
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00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,877
issued an order summoning
Rupert Murdoch and his son James
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00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,077
to attend parliament
on the 19th of July
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00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,960
to basically explain themselves.
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00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,877
The significance of this moment
was not lost on any of us.
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00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,557
If we asked the right questions,
we could ensnare them,
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00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,960
both of them, father and son.
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00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,960
DOOR OPENS
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WHITTINGDALE: OK, everyone,
settle now, please.
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We are now in session.
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00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,717
Mr Watson will ask
the first question.
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00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,877
Mr Murdoch Sr, Mr Murdoch Jr,
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00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,877
good afternoon, thanks
for coming in today.
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00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,877
My first question is
for Mr Murdoch Sr.
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00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,877
You have repeatedly stated
146
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,397
that News Corp has zero tolerance
to wrongdoing by employees.
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00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,877
Is that right?
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Is that me?
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00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,960
Yes.
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00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,877
In October 2010, did you
still believe it to be true
151
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,877
when you made your Thatcher
speech and you said,
152
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,397
"Let me be clear. We will
vigorously pursue the truth,
153
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,877
"and we will not
tolerate wrongdoing"?
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00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,877
Yes.
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00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,877
So if you were not lying
then, somebody lied to you.
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Who was it? I don't know.
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That is what the police
are investigating
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00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,877
and we are helping them with.
159
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,877
But you acknowledge
that you were misled?
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Clearly.
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00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,877
If I can take you to...
WHISPERS: He's doing...
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00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,877
...2006, when Clive
Goodman was arrested
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00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,877
and subsequently convicted
of intercepting voice mails,
164
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,960
were you made aware of that?
165
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,877
I think so. I was certainly made
aware of when they were convicted.
166
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,877
And what did News
International do
167
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,877
subsequent to the arrest of
Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcaire
168
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,877
to get to the facts?
169
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,877
We worked with the police
on further investigation,
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00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,877
and eventually, we appointed,
very quickly appointed,
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00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,877
a very leading firm
of lawyers in the City
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00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,877
to investigate it further.
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00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,877
What did you personally
do to investigate that?
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00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,077
After Mr Goodman went
to prison, you...
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00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,877
you were obviously
concerned about it.
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00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,960
I spoke to Mr, erm...
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00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,960
...Hinton, who told me about it.
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OK.
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00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,877
In 2008, another two years,
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00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,877
why did you not dismiss
181
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,877
News Of The World chief
reporter Neville Thurlbeck
182
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,000
following the Mosley case?
183
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,640
I'd never heard of him.
184
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,877
So none of your UK staff
185
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,877
drew your attention to
this serious wrongdoing,
186
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,877
even though the case received
widespread media attention?
187
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,877
I think my son can perhaps
answer that in more detail.
188
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,877
He was a lot closer to it.
189
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,960
I will come to your
son in a minute.
190
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,960
Can I ask you, when did you
first meet Mr Alex Marunchak?
191
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:31,960
Mr...?
192
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,877
Alex Marunchak.
193
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,877
He worked for the
company for 25 years.
194
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,237
I don't remember meeting him.
195
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,877
I might have shaken hands
walking through the office,
196
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,877
but I don't have any memory.
197
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,877
Mr Murdoch Sr, you
seem to indicate
198
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,877
that you had a rather hands-off
approach to your company.
199
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,877
Could you just give
us an illustration
200
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,877
of how often you would speak to
the editors of your newspapers?
201
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,877
For example, how often you would
speak to the editor of The Sun,
202
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,960
or to the editor of
the News Of The World.
203
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,877
Erm, very seldom.
204
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,877
Sometimes, I'd ring the editor
of the News Of The World
205
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,877
on a Saturday night and say,
"Have you got any news tonight?"
206
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,877
But it was just
to keep in touch.
207
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:21,557
Well, I'm intrigued as to how
these conversations might go.
208
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,877
I imagine that to the editor
of the News Of The World,
209
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,917
it might go along the lines
of, "Anything to report?"
210
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,877
And the editor of the
News Of The World says,
211
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,717
"No, no, it's been a standard week.
We paid Gordon Taylor £600,000."
212
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,877
LAUGHTER
213
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,877
He never said that
last sentence.
214
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,877
Well, I mean, surely in
your weekly conversation
215
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,877
with the editor of
the News Of The World,
216
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,877
with something as big as that,
paying someone a million pounds,
217
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,717
paying someone £700,000,
218
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,877
I mean, surely you'd
have expected the editor
219
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,877
to just drop it into the
conversation at some point
220
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,877
during your weekly chat.
221
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,080
No, I'd say, "What's doing?"
222
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,160
Sorry? I'd say, "What's doing?"
223
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,877
And what sort of response
would you expect?
224
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,877
Well, he might say, "We've got
a great story exposing X or Y,"
225
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,237
or he would say, more
likely, "Nothing special."
226
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,077
He might refer to the fact
that however many extra pages
227
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:16,877
were dedicated to the
football that week.
228
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,877
But he wouldn't tell you
about a million-pound pay-off?
229
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,877
Er, I just want to say that...
230
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,877
I was brought up by a
father who was not rich
231
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,877
but who was a great journalist.
232
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,877
And he, just before he
died, bought a small paper,
233
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,877
specifically in his will,
234
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,877
saying he was giving me
the chance to do good.
235
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,877
Now, I remember what he did
and what he was most proud of
236
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:41,917
and for which he was
hated in this country
237
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,877
by many people for
many, many years,
238
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,237
which was to expose the
scandal at Gallipoli,
239
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,557
which I remain
very, very proud of.
240
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,877
I think that all students
of history will be...
241
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,960
Scheming...! CLAMOUR
242
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,960
Erm, the-the sitting
is suspended.
243
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:05,878
Fuck it.
244
00:12:05,961 --> 00:12:08,877
WOMAN ON TV: 'The
defence told the court
245
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,877
'the father-of-one from Windsor
had wanted to show his revulsion
246
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,877
'over the scandal at
News International.
247
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:14,878
'He'd admitted assault...'
248
00:12:14,961 --> 00:12:17,877
If I get my hands on that
fool... He's in custody.
249
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,877
He thinks, what, that
his amateur dramatics
250
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,237
are more useful than what
we were doing in that room?
251
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,877
Good questions were asked.
Yeah, and they weren't answered.
252
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,960
And that obfuscation is
important. Or it was.
253
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,397
Oh, God, that... awful senile
act Murdoch was putting on,
254
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,877
that needed writing about.
255
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,877
But now, every paper will carry
one thing and one thing only -
256
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,877
Wendi Murdoch
fighting for her man.
257
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,877
You're worrying too much, Nick.
You don't understand news cycles.
258
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,877
Well, there's still Leveson.
Yeah, nothing else but Leveson.
259
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,557
There is no air but Leveson.
If Leveson doesn't produce...
260
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,877
Then what? You gonna hide under a
tea towel for the rest of your life?
261
00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,877
Look, Nick, a serious inquiry
led by quite a clever bloke
262
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,877
is happening because
of your journalism.
263
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,397
It could mean
regulation, ethics,
264
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,877
maybe even an
appropriate relationship
265
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,077
between press,
politicians and police.
266
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,877
When did you become
the positive one?
267
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,397
Oh, fuck off.
268
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,877
Lord Leveson's report's given us
a new press and a new Dave Cook.
269
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,960
Fuck off. Twice.
270
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,960
INAUDIBLE
271
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,877
What's the latest with
the Select Committee?
272
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,877
Get James Murdoch back
in. On what grounds?
273
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,960
Clarity on whether or not he was
told about the Neville email.
274
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,717
Why are there police
officers in our newsroom?
275
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:50,877
What?
276
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,960
PHONE RINGS
277
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,877
They want to talk to
Amelia. Amelia? What about?
278
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,960
They're citing the
Official Secrets Act.
279
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,877
PHONE RINGS
280
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,717
Yeah? NICK: 'Hi. Where are you?'
281
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,960
On my way somewhere.
Can't tell you where.
282
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,877
Amelia, this is Alan.
283
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,960
'Alan, I'm just on my
way to meet someone.'
284
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,960
What's going on? 'I think
you should come in.'
285
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,877
They're upstairs. They won't
leave until they've spoken to you.
286
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,480
No. No way. Not without
a lawyer. Agreed.
287
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:34,878
They don't like my biscuits,
288
00:14:34,961 --> 00:14:36,960
and they don't like my
small talk about Chopin.
289
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,877
They're saying they
need your notebooks.
290
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,877
If you can't find
your notebooks,
291
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,877
they'll get a warrant
and enter your flat.
292
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,877
They're also saying if the
notebooks aren't in your flat,
293
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:47,878
they could visit your mother.
294
00:14:47,961 --> 00:14:50,917
Tell them I'm not going to
give up my source or my notes.
295
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,877
I'd rather go to prison.
296
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,320
Right.
297
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,237
Good.
298
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,877
I'll contact some friends,
give you some recommendations,
299
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,877
or you can find a lawyer yourself,
a human rights specialist.
300
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,960
This will get leaked,
right? I'd expect so.
301
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,877
But you might need to stay
somewhere else tonight,
302
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,877
a friend's or... Is
this what happens?
303
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,557
We were exposing them,
not the other way around.
304
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,237
It isn't what happens.
305
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,960
But it does seem to
be what's happening.
306
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,320
I'm so sorry.
307
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,960
DIALLING TONE
308
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,877
DAVE: 'Hi.'
309
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,960
Hi. How are you?
310
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:38,960
I'm OK.
311
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,877
I'm calling about Leveson.
312
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,877
Erm, I'm going to apply
to be a core participant.
313
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,077
The group, Hacked Off, I don't
know if you've... Yeah, yeah.
314
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,877
Well, they saw the
Channel 4 interview,
315
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,917
and they've been pretty
insistent that I say something.
316
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,960
Not that they're
making me, erm...
317
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,877
They seem very good people.
318
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:01,877
'They don't really have anyone
to talk to about the Met
319
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,877
'from the inside, and I think
that's why they want me.'
320
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,960
Oh, they have you,
and they have me.
321
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,237
You're doing it, too?
I registered yesterday.
322
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,077
I was gonna email.
323
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:15,877
'There are implications.'
324
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,960
Sure. For the kids.
325
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,800
We'll have to speak to their school,
their friends. We could be targets.
326
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,960
Why is it worse me
doing it than you?
327
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,960
Because of Daniel Morgan,
because the case collapsed.
328
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,877
They said you were feeding
lines to a witness.
329
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,877
You don't think they're gonna use
that against you if you give evi...?
330
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,077
No, no, listen, listen, Jacqui.
331
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,960
I just want this out
there, same as you do, OK?
332
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,960
KNOCKING ON DOOR
333
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,877
Hi, Nick. Sue Akers. I hope
I'm not disturbing you.
334
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,877
Deputy Assistant
Commissioner, this is quite...
335
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,397
Call me Sue, please.
..quite the surprise, Sue.
336
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,000
I was hoping you might have a
moment to make me a cup of tea.
337
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,877
Of course I do. Yeah, of
course. Come in. Sorry.
338
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:10,960
Through here. Thanks.
339
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,877
You're coming to my house, not
a short distance, on a Saturday.
340
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,877
So... whatever this
is can't be good.
341
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,960
I mean, I have to assume...
it can't be good at all.
342
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,960
Maybe take a seat. Oh, God.
343
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,557
Nick, I'm afraid that part
of the story you published
344
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,320
about Milly Dowler
is inaccurate.
345
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:41,878
Inaccurate how?
346
00:17:41,961 --> 00:17:44,877
It looks likely that
the News Of The World
347
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,877
did not delete voice messages
from Milly Dowler's phone.
348
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,877
It's probable it was
the phone company.
349
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,237
That's not... I have... I
have two separate sources.
350
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,077
The network she used automatically
deleted messages after 72 hours.
351
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,877
That's how we presume
they were wiped.
352
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,237
You're using words like
presumed, probable, likely.
353
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,557
And we believe those
deletions happened
354
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,960
prior to Glenn Mulcaire being
instructed to get inside her phone.
355
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,960
Before Mulcaire?
356
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,077
Nick, I came here in person to
acknowledge all you've done.
357
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,877
Without you, Weeting
is impossible.
358
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,077
Without you... You
can't know for certain
359
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:26,397
who deleted what.
360
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,960
I'm sorry. We'll be releasing a
statement to correct the record.
361
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,917
The article said messages
were deleted by journalists
362
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,877
in the first few days after
Milly's disappearance.
363
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,877
That's the only inaccuracy.
It's a large one.
364
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,877
I have a good source
which tells me
365
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,877
Surrey Police turned off the
automatic deletion system
366
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:47,878
on the fourth day,
367
00:18:47,961 --> 00:18:50,917
and some voicemail appeared
to have been deleted after.
368
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,800
Will they sue?
369
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,960
No. Sure?
370
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,717
They were inside the phone? Yes.
371
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,877
They may have subsequently
deleted messages.
372
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,877
My source tells me they
did. I believe my source.
373
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,960
Then there is too much
for them to lose in court.
374
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:08,878
Right.
375
00:19:08,961 --> 00:19:11,917
Well, then we issue a
retraction and an apology. Bah!
376
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,917
We made a mistake.
We may not have!
377
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,877
We made a mistake,
Nick, but there we are.
378
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,877
Ten lashes for you,
ten lashes for me.
379
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,557
Sue Akers agrees with
most of our story.
380
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:22,877
They did hack the phone.
381
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,800
Surrey Police did know about it,
surely. I have two priorities.
382
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,237
That they don't use this
383
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,877
to try and obfuscate the
crime they have committed.
384
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,960
A dead girl's phone was hacked.
385
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,877
And my other
priority is you. God!
386
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,960
What was that Carl
Bernstein quote?
387
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,237
All great reporting
is the same thing -
388
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,877
best obtainable
version of the truth.
389
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,960
I'm gonna be
absolutely monstered.
390
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,877
It serves them very well to try
and destroy your reputation.
391
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,000
I don't want to apologise.
392
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,877
Then don't.
393
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,557
The paper has to. You don't.
394
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:05,557
Stand up, put on some
iron underwear, and fight.
395
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,320
INHALES SHARPLY
396
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,877
The monstering was
high-energy. Fuck you!
397
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,397
Doubt turned into certainty
that we had got it wrong.
398
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,557
Fuck you!
399
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,557
Richard Caseby, managing
editor of The Sun,
400
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:20,877
told the House of
Lords Committee
401
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,877
that Alan Rusbridger had
sexed up his investigation
402
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,877
into phone hacking. Fuck you!
403
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,877
Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times
404
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,877
said boldly The
Guardian had made it up.
405
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:29,960
Shame on you.
406
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,640
But beneath all...
407
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,877
...beneath all that
exaggeration and hostility
408
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,557
was the fact that I
had stated as a fact
409
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,960
something which now
appeared to be untrue.
410
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,640
I had damaged myself, and
I'd exposed The Guardian.
411
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,877
So, how are you enjoying it?
412
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,877
Yeah, it's quite a thing.
To be outside your house?
413
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,077
Whatever fuel they have they're
readying to throw in the fire.
414
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,917
So why are you so calm? Oh,
I'm an optimist/pessimist.
415
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,877
I presume I'm capable
of great things
416
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,917
and yet assume the
worst's about to happen.
417
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,877
You always thought
you'd be found out.
418
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:11,878
My mother said I would be.
419
00:21:11,961 --> 00:21:14,877
Maybe I should be an
optimist/pessimist.
420
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,960
I wouldn't recommend. It does
horrible things to your guts.
421
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,960
You're really going to New York?
422
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,877
The police haven't charged
me. I'm free to go.
423
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,960
But you could just stay here.
Yesterday's stale toast in no time.
424
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,077
The Evening Standard
425
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,717
tried to do a story about
me sleeping with my source.
426
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,397
A few weeks later, they rang and
said I was sleeping with an MP.
427
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,717
Wrong Amelia, and
she's married to him.
428
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,960
Yep. I just... I can't.
429
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,480
I don't want to be the story.
430
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,877
No.
431
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,237
No, I'm not sure I do, either.
432
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,877
Luckily, they had a booking free
for me on Newsnight tonight,
433
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,877
and Jeremy Paxman's a
notoriously kind interviewer (!)
434
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:01,877
You're going on Newsnight? Yeah.
435
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,960
Against whoever News International
think will do me most damage.
436
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,480
But, you know, steel underpants
filled with stale toast. Be fine.
437
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:16,960
If I don't come back...
438
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,960
I mean, I want to say something.
439
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,877
When this is all done and
they tell the story of it,
440
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,960
you know, when you look
back or write about it...
441
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,960
...don't paint me
as your protege.
442
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,877
I mean, I've been
at this a long time.
443
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,877
I worked Jingle across
multiple cases for years.
444
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,237
I mean, it was your story,
445
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,877
and Milly would've never
happened without you.
446
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,877
But it wouldn't have
happened without me, either.
447
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:49,878
You don't need to say anything.
448
00:22:49,961 --> 00:22:51,877
Don't let them whitewash
the other people out.
449
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,877
Don't need to say any of this.
450
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,640
I actually do.
451
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,320
You have my word.
452
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:03,960
OK.
453
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,717
Email me when you get there.
454
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:10,917
If Paxman hasn't
killed you first (!)
455
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,960
Then email my corpse.
456
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,800
Good luck, Nick.
457
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,960
NEWSNIGHT THEME PLAYS
458
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,877
JEREMY: Tonight, who knew what and
when in the phone hacking scandal?
459
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,877
Could James Murdoch
really have been unaware?
460
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,877
Why did The Guardian claim
the News Of The World
461
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,877
deleted voice messages
when they had no evidence?
462
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,877
It was The Guardian
newspaper's claims,
463
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,877
stated as fact, that they'd been
erased by the News Of The World,
464
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,877
which triggered the
shutdown of what was once
465
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,877
the biggest-selling paper in
the English-speaking world.
466
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,877
Nick Davies, let's
cut to the chase.
467
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,960
What you claim to be a
fact wasn't a fact, was it?
468
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,397
NICK ON TV: 'The story
we published in July
469
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,877
'was squarely based on
the evidence available,
470
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,877
'correct in saying that
her voicemail was deleted.'
471
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,877
And it remains the case that News
International are not denying
472
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,877
that News Of The
World journalists
473
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,877
may have been responsible
for those deletions.
474
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,877
Well, let's look at the
front page here. Yeah.
475
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,877
"News Of The World hacked
Milly Dowler's phone
476
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,717
"during police hunt." Exactly.
477
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,877
Then, "The paper deleted missing
schoolgirl's voice mails",
478
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,877
"giving family
false hope." Yeah.
479
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:26,878
And you say in the copy
480
00:24:26,961 --> 00:24:28,877
the messages were
deleted by journalists
481
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,557
in the first few days after
Milly's disappearance.
482
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,917
Everybody who was involved in
that story accepted it was true.
483
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,557
It's a very interesting
thing that... No, no, no.
484
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,917
...when that story was
done... No. No, no.
485
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,877
You're not allowing me to answer?
No, because you're not answering.
486
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,877
You're not asking
the right questions.
487
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,877
Oh, I'm sorry. JEREMY SCOFFS
488
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,877
Everybody... involved
in that story
489
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,717
accepted that that
story was true.
490
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,877
And you believed it to be
true. ..and continued to accept
491
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,877
until four months
later... Right, perhaps.
492
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,877
...new evidence which
was not available,
493
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,877
to everybody's surprise... You
did not report it like that.
494
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,717
...showed that one element of
that story is now in doubt.
495
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,917
It has not been proved to be untrue.
So you accept it wasn't true.
496
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,397
Jules Stenson was a features
editor. What do you say?
497
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,877
Well, the key point to this as well
is that this wasn't any old story.
498
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,877
This was a story that was
the most important story
499
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:18,878
in The Guardian's history.
500
00:25:18,961 --> 00:25:22,877
It was vital that every single
element of it should be right,
501
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,877
and Nick Davies repeated
that allegation 34 times.
502
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,877
Let's get things
in proportion here.
503
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,877
Your newspaper had hacked a
murdered girl's telephone.
504
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:31,917
What we did was indefensible,
505
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,877
not just to Milly but to
all the victims of hacking.
506
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,877
I'm not here to justify
that in any way.
507
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,557
What I am here to do, though, is
to attack the shoddy journalism
508
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,877
of The Guardian and the
shoddy journalism of Nick.
509
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,877
This-This is a classic example of
the way tabloid newspapers work.
510
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,877
You're in a heap of
trouble because for years,
511
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,877
you personally have
taken Murdoch's money
512
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,877
and ruined people's lives,
513
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,877
invaded people's privacy and
engaged in criminal activity.
514
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,877
You've hired private
investigators in the past
515
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,877
who've broken the law,
haven't you, Jules?
516
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,877
I'm not here to
justify... Haven't you?
517
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,877
You accuse me of
shoddy journalism
518
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,397
when your name is
all over the records
519
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,877
of Steve Whittamore,
private investigator,
520
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,917
convicted of using illegal
means. Your name's there.
521
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,917
Information about
Jamie Theakston,
522
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,877
about Anne Robinson,
about Anna Friel...
523
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,877
There are public interest factors...
Know what, Jules? Just stop.
524
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,877
Take a leaf out of Rupert
Murdoch's book and get humble.
525
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,877
Or else just go quiet.
526
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,717
People don't believe you any more.
Right. We're done being bullied
527
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,397
by you any more. We've
had enough of you.
528
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,877
Two years after this,
529
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,960
Jules Stenson pled guilty to
conspiracy to hack phones, but...
530
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,960
Well, I wish I knew
that at this moment.
531
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,960
SOFT JAZZ MUSIC PLAYS
532
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,877
♪ Do I want you?
533
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,877
♪ Oh, my, do I
534
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,960
♪ Honey, indeed I do
535
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,877
♪ Do I need you?
536
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,877
♪ Oh, why do... ♪
537
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,877
BANGING ON DOOR
538
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,960
♪ Honey, indeed I do. ♪
539
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,000
Detective Chief
Superintendent Dave Cook.
540
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,640
INAUDIBLE
541
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,960
PHONE BUZZES, SCRUBBING
542
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,160
BUZZING CONTINUES
543
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,917
Hello. 'Hi, Jacqui. It's Dave.'
544
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,877
David. What's this number?
545
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,877
Listen, Jacqui, I am...
546
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,877
I... I need you to
pick up the kids.
547
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,877
'Where are you calling from?'
548
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,877
It's, erm...
549
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,877
It's actually a police
station number, Jacqui.
550
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,960
I've been arrested. What?
551
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:16,960
On what charge?
552
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,960
It's misconduct,
data protection.
553
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:24,960
I...
554
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,877
They raided the house. Well,
did they find anything?
555
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,877
'Some old files.'
556
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,877
What files? What...? Why
did you have files at home?
557
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,960
HINGES CREAK I don't...
558
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,320
'What the fuck are they doing?'
559
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,960
I don't know, Jacqui!
560
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,878
I don't know.
561
00:28:47,961 --> 00:28:49,877
What do we do? How
can we help him?
562
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,877
GLEN: 'I'm not sure we're gonna
help until we know what they have.'
563
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,877
Well, we have to do something.
564
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,877
'Nick, we both know he was
passing information to both of us,
565
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,877
'and they've arrested
Amelia's source.
566
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,397
'Sit tight. We'll
find an answer.'
567
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:04,960
OK. Bye.
568
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,877
I don't know what you
think you have here.
569
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,877
How about a cup of tea, sir?
No. I would like to leave.
570
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,877
I'm supposed to be
giving evidence tomorrow.
571
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,000
I'm a participant in Leveson.
572
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,960
But, then, I suppose
you already know that.
573
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,160
This conversation is
being recorded, so... Yes.
574
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,237
I understand that you've refused
legal representation. Yes.
575
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,877
And I do need to check that you
do fully understand your rights.
576
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,877
I'm 40 years in the
police force, son.
577
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,877
Yes, I understand my rights.
578
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,877
Good. All right.
579
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,877
Let's start from the
beginning, then, shall we?
580
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,960
Tell me about your relationship
with the journalist Mike Sullivan.
581
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,077
No comment.
582
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,877
So you deny passing
information to journalists?
583
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,877
And, as you know, police officers
working for Operation Elveden...
584
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,877
Operation Elveden
is about bribery.
585
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:02,237
I have never accepted money
from a journalist in my life.
586
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,877
This is an operation looking
into the corrupt relations
587
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,960
between police and the press.
588
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,237
News International
sent us emails.
589
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,717
News International sent you emails?
They were sent from their server.
590
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,877
Have you any idea...?
591
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,877
Do you deny you were
in regular contact
592
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,640
with the journalist
Mike Sullivan?
593
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,877
Mike Sullivan and
I worked together.
594
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,877
It was John Yates
who introduced us.
595
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,877
He had access to
my investigation
596
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,237
in return for writing helpful
articles in the newspaper.
597
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,877
I have done nothing
598
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,877
that a million police officers
before me haven't done.
599
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,917
It is standard police practice.
600
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,960
So you did nothing
wrong? Nothing.
601
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,717
Forty years in
the police service
602
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,960
and you didn't know
you broke the law?
603
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,160
Shame on you.
604
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,960
SHARP RINGING IN DAVE'S HEAD
605
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,000
RINGING CONTINUES
606
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,917
They're trying to get us all.
They're waiting for any mistake.
607
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,960
Then let's try not to make
any mistakes. Come inside.
608
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,960
DOOR CLOSES
609
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,960
Lindsay found a spare
duvet from somewhere.
610
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,000
I don't need to stay. You
should. I'd like you to.
611
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,877
Doing a sleepover with the
editor of The Guardian?
612
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Not editor. Friend.
613
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,877
This... This may not be
entirely comfortable.
614
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,877
I should be helping.
615
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,960
Yes, you should.
616
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,877
A journalist running
away to America,
617
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,877
two police officers
under arrest.
618
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,877
You're so paranoid, you're having
this house periodically debugged,
619
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:28,917
and it's...
620
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,960
It's all your fault.
SIGHING: Yeah.
621
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,960
You remember when we first met?
622
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,717
I felt like a child
who'd forgot his pencil.
623
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,877
You were so thrusting,
and, well, I wasn't.
624
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,960
But you were ambitious. Hugely.
625
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,917
Compensating for who knows what?
626
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,877
And I thought, "Well, if everyone
at The Guardian's like him",
627
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,877
"I'm done for." NICK LAUGHS
628
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:58,878
Thankfully, they weren't.
629
00:32:58,961 --> 00:33:02,960
And thankfully, as it turns out,
I had something to offer you...
630
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,960
...as you had
something to offer me.
631
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,480
Nick...
632
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,877
...don't mistake the fact you
were first through the door
633
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,917
with the fact that everyone else
634
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,480
went through the
same door willingly.
635
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,917
The sacrifices weren't for
you. They were for your cause.
636
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,877
You're part of a team, Nick.
637
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,320
The funny thing is,
you always have been.
638
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,960
I think he's gonna
get away with it...
639
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:35,878
...Murdoch.
640
00:33:35,961 --> 00:33:38,960
I think he's gonna get
away with it. Perhaps.
641
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,877
Perhaps that's what abusers do.
642
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,960
Get away with things.
643
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,960
Or perhaps not.
644
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:50,960
Not really. Maybe...
645
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,320
Maybe...
646
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,960
...deep down inside
them, there's just...
647
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,960
...damage.
648
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,877
Yes, but sometimes...
649
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,960
Yes, but sometimes, the damage
they caused sometimes...
650
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,960
But you're not trying
to excuse her. Him.
651
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,960
No, Nick.
652
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,960
I'm not trying to excuse
your mother or him.
653
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:24,960
I'm saying...
654
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,960
...all we can do is fight
the best we can, and...
655
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,960
...hope we prove to
be a valiant opponent.
656
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,877
And personally speaking, I...
657
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,877
I am so proud to
have been a part
658
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,717
of this great, valiant act.
659
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:48,960
Whatever happens...
660
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,960
...know that.
661
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,960
OK. You're OK.
662
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,960
BALL BOUNCES
663
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,960
DOOR OPENS, FOOTSTEPS
664
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,960
Don't worry. You're
before me. I'm just...
665
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,960
...insanely, horrifically early.
666
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,877
It's Jacqui, isn't it? Yes.
667
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,077
I read your statement.
Strong stuff.
668
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,877
Harrowing, punchy.
Nick, by the way.
669
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,397
I know, and thank you.
670
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,960
Coming from you,
that's... Thank you.
671
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,877
May I...? I mean, I
hope it's OK to ask.
672
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,877
How's David? Oh.
673
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:56,878
It's been a week since we spoke,
674
00:36:56,961 --> 00:36:59,960
but he's back in
his house at least.
675
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,397
He won't take my calls.
He will when he's ready.
676
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,917
It won't be you. It'll be him.
677
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,960
It's generally him.
678
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,557
He helped, by the way.
679
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,877
I'm not sure whether you're
aware, but he helped all of us.
680
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,960
He was key.
681
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,960
We wouldn't be here
without his help.
682
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,960
Sorry. I'll leave you to let
you prep, run your lines.
683
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,878
Oh, God.
684
00:37:37,961 --> 00:37:39,877
I'm usually good with details,
but for some reason today,
685
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,877
my mind keeps going blank.
686
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,877
INHALES DEEPLY
687
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,557
SIGHS
688
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:47,960
I didn't sleep much.
689
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,877
I didn't sleep much last night.
690
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:54,878
Not a wink.
691
00:37:54,961 --> 00:37:57,717
But, then, I don't sleep.
I'm not someone who sleeps.
692
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,960
You always been like that?
Since I was a boy, yeah.
693
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,360
Dave did tell you I wasn't a
simple guy to understand, right?
694
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,960
I've had days recently where
I can't remember my own name.
695
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,917
I've been in rooms full of people
and forgotten why I'm even there.
696
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,640
I suffer, and I have done for
years, from panic attacks.
697
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,800
Every time I sat down to
write this statement, I'd...
698
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,877
But this morning, I woke
up, and I felt clear,
699
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,877
clearer than I
have done in years.
700
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:31,878
That's good. Yes.
701
00:38:31,961 --> 00:38:34,557
Just remember,
702
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,917
in the storm of all of this,
703
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,960
in all the mea culpa of...
704
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,397
...News Of The World,
705
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,877
they decided that in the
middle of this inquiry
706
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,960
to launch The Sun On Sunday.
707
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,800
You're right. They're bold.
708
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,960
Hmm.
709
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,960
Hmm.
710
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,397
That thing you were doing
with the ball, I don't mind,
711
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,877
if it helps to calm you.
712
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,877
Oh, come on. Drive you insane.
I've been tested by bigger things.
713
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,960
Please. Do what you need to do.
714
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,960
Oh. Yeah.
715
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,877
DISTANT SIREN WAILS
716
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,960
'I'll be honest. I'm
scared of this inquiry.'
717
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,960
I'm scared because I think you'll
take the wrong recommendations...
718
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,877
...and because you'll destroy
something which is precious
719
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,960
without rebuilding
something better.
720
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,877
I don't want destroyed the
notion of the unofficial source.
721
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:01,960
Sue Akers has arrested...
722
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:03,878
...37, 38 people
723
00:40:03,961 --> 00:40:06,397
in the four inquiries
she's been running.
724
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,077
There have been a couple of
arrests of police officers
725
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,877
in cases where I know quite a
lot about the circumstances.
726
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,877
'What's happened there is
those officers have been told
727
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,877
'they will be charged with
the common-law offence
728
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,877
'of misconduct in
a public office.
729
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,877
'Despite, to the
best of my knowledge,
730
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,960
'there being no allegation of
any kind of bribe or inducement.'
731
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,877
What those officers are being
told is, "You will be charged",
732
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,877
"and you can expect to get a
prison term of up to 18 months"
733
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,877
"because you've spoken to a
reporter without permission."
734
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:49,077
Now... these two cases are live,
we don't know how they'll turn out.
735
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,877
May well be that the Crown
Prosecution Service will say,
736
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,877
"Hang on a moment.
This doesn't apply."
737
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,877
But... I think it's worrying,
738
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,877
and this is in the wake
of the phone hacking...
739
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,878
I worry that it might be
740
00:41:01,961 --> 00:41:06,877
a completely unjustifiable
and unnecessary backlash
741
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,397
to the allegation of collusion
742
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,877
between News
International and the Met.
743
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,877
And the ultimate effect here may
be to prevent unauthorised contact
744
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,800
between journalists and police.
745
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,917
When, as a matter of fact,
without this unauthorised contact,
746
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,877
the Metropolitan Police
would've been allowed
747
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,877
to carry on misleading
press, public and parliament
748
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,877
about this whole scandal.
749
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,877
I'm also scared
that this inquiry
750
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,960
might misstep in a
different direction.
751
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:41,397
Might soften itself... as it's
attacked from outside sources.
752
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,237
I have been under attack,
in one form or another,
753
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,877
ever since I first attempted to
reveal the practice of hacking.
754
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,557
And I-I-I...
755
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,000
I represent here today...
756
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,557
...a team of people, all of whom
have been under similar attacks.
757
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,960
'I've had to face extraordinary
things to be part of this fight.
758
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,877
'They've done so because
what you're doing here today
759
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,960
'is precious.
760
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,877
'News.
761
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,237
'I think... I think the
best definition of it...
762
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,960
'News is what someone somewhere
doesn't want you to know.'
763
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,877
The most difficult, skilful,
interesting, important... stuff
764
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,877
that reporters do is about
finding human sources
765
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,877
and motivating them to
help reveal that news.
766
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,877
And I can... I can tell you
767
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,960
of someone at the
front line of that.
768
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,960
News is also often what
someone is reluctant to tell.
769
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,877
So it's hard to
motivate a human source
770
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,960
to reveal their truth.
771
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,877
I'd say, look, if I talk to you
and they realise I've done this,
772
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,960
then I'll lose my
job or my career.
773
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,877
Or I'll be beaten
up, I'll be arrested,
774
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,877
or embarrassed or ashamed.
775
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,960
I will hurt people who love me.
It's a very sensitive moment.
776
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,480
You have to make
those people safe.
777
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,877
You have to make
those people realise
778
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,960
their truth is worth the risk.
779
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,960
What these hackers did was about
cutting out that human connection.
780
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,077
These so-called journalists
didn't find the truth.
781
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,960
They didn't persuade people to
come with them. They just stole.
782
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,480
They took.
783
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,960
And humanity was
lost in that moment.
784
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,877
Not only in the privacy
that was invaded,
785
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,877
but also in the
stories told from it.
786
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,960
Our papers became dish
rags of distorted content.
787
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,960
And a set of rogue journalists
working for a rogue corporation...
788
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,800
...undermine the very
tenets of journalism...
789
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,800
...the very tenets
of truth telling.
790
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,877
If this inquiry succeeds, we may
be able to rebuild our newspapers.
791
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,960
We may be able to make
them what they should be.
792
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,877
Fail...
793
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,960
and News International will have
trapped us all in their shadow.
794
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,960
And I'm scared that
we will never get out.
795
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,960
INAUDIBLE
796
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,320
INAUDIBLE
797
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,160
INAUDIBLE
798
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,960
INAUDIBLE
799
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,960
INAUDIBLE
800
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,960
INAUDIBLE
801
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,960
INAUDIBLE
802
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,480
INAUDIBLE
803
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,480
INAUDIBLE
804
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:32,160
INAUDIBLE
805
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,640
INAUDIBLE
806
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,960
INAUDIBLE
807
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,960
INAUDIBLE
808
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,160
INAUDIBLE
809
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,960
INAUDIBLE
810
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000
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