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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,874 I was a working girl. 2 00:00:06,875 --> 00:00:07,874 - Working girl. - Working girl. 3 00:00:07,875 --> 00:00:09,208 - Courtesan. - Escort. 4 00:00:09,375 --> 00:00:11,666 - Escort girl. - Former adult film star. 5 00:00:11,667 --> 00:00:13,957 I'm a sex trade survivor. 6 00:00:13,958 --> 00:00:17,666 If I could talk to my 11-year-old me, 7 00:00:17,667 --> 00:00:19,417 watching Cathouse... 8 00:00:19,542 --> 00:00:20,957 I need a minute... 9 00:00:20,958 --> 00:00:23,916 I would definitely tell little me that... 10 00:00:23,917 --> 00:00:26,750 not everything you see on TV is a reality. 11 00:00:26,875 --> 00:00:29,832 HBO put us in the living rooms 12 00:00:29,833 --> 00:00:32,332 of America, with Cathouse. 13 00:00:32,333 --> 00:00:34,500 [News] The Bunny Ranch bills itself as one of Nevada's 14 00:00:34,625 --> 00:00:35,832 most upscale brothels, 15 00:00:35,833 --> 00:00:37,916 and the program shows the inner workings 16 00:00:37,917 --> 00:00:40,666 of the business behind the brothel. 17 00:00:40,667 --> 00:00:43,707 Cathouse was one of the most watched HBO documentaries 18 00:00:43,708 --> 00:00:44,667 in the history of the network. 19 00:00:44,917 --> 00:00:46,125 At first, I thought it was the sequel to 20 00:00:46,292 --> 00:00:47,624 the Cat in the Hat movie. 21 00:00:47,625 --> 00:00:49,541 I was not even close. 22 00:00:49,542 --> 00:00:51,041 Prostitutes on TV. 23 00:00:51,042 --> 00:00:53,082 Who thought that was gonna sell? Dennis did. 24 00:00:53,083 --> 00:00:55,624 It's just sex. Relax, it's just sex. 25 00:00:55,625 --> 00:00:57,332 We felt like we were stars. 26 00:00:57,333 --> 00:00:59,333 [News] Joining us now live is the owner of the 27 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:01,791 Bunny Ranch himself, the legendary... 28 00:01:01,792 --> 00:01:03,791 [laughing] Dennis Hof. 29 00:01:03,792 --> 00:01:05,832 Dennis changed the system. 30 00:01:05,833 --> 00:01:07,332 Dennis made it a business. 31 00:01:07,333 --> 00:01:09,333 He made the women businesswomen. 32 00:01:09,458 --> 00:01:10,416 [Dennis] It's not going away. 33 00:01:10,417 --> 00:01:12,541 Sex for sale is here to stay. 34 00:01:12,542 --> 00:01:14,957 He was a marketing, media genius. 35 00:01:14,958 --> 00:01:18,666 But Dennis Hof's legacy is extremely mixed. 36 00:01:18,667 --> 00:01:20,500 Look. 37 00:01:20,625 --> 00:01:25,332 Dennis's world was buying and selling people. 38 00:01:25,333 --> 00:01:27,041 That's how he thought of us. 39 00:01:27,042 --> 00:01:29,833 He thought of us as objects that he owned. 40 00:01:29,958 --> 00:01:32,666 He made us feel like [beep] on the bottom of his feet. 41 00:01:32,667 --> 00:01:35,167 [sobs] And I remember saying, "Okay..." 42 00:01:35,375 --> 00:01:37,916 [inhaling] "Just do it." 43 00:01:37,917 --> 00:01:39,874 I was scared. 44 00:01:39,875 --> 00:01:43,292 But HBO wanted to sell a show. 45 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:46,707 They just didn't want to show the ugly side of it. 46 00:01:46,708 --> 00:01:48,999 I really had no idea that people were being 47 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,166 drawn in by the show, itself. 48 00:01:52,167 --> 00:01:55,791 Women watched Cathouse as young girls. 49 00:01:55,792 --> 00:01:57,708 11, 12 years old. 50 00:01:57,833 --> 00:02:00,707 And then decided that they wanted to go to that place. 51 00:02:00,708 --> 00:02:02,707 [Dennis] Chrissie is the reason why you use 52 00:02:02,708 --> 00:02:05,707 parental controls on your TV. because at 15, 53 00:02:05,708 --> 00:02:06,999 she was watching Cathouse, 54 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,541 and here we are. 55 00:02:08,542 --> 00:02:11,333 They made it seem so fun on the show, and... 56 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:14,208 what was really happening was force. 57 00:02:14,417 --> 00:02:16,499 - Rape. - Coercion. 58 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:18,500 - Murder. - Abuse. 59 00:02:18,667 --> 00:02:20,749 - Overdose. - Control. 60 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:24,124 If someone had told me, I would've said no. 61 00:02:24,125 --> 00:02:26,666 Is this something that we want to beam into homes? 62 00:02:26,667 --> 00:02:30,375 The place was about lying. It was all lies. 63 00:02:30,500 --> 00:02:32,999 It's important for us to hold HBO accountable. 64 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,499 It's kind of hard to say it was a documentary 65 00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:37,707 when you have a pimp directing scenes 66 00:02:37,708 --> 00:02:39,375 in his own brothel. 67 00:02:39,583 --> 00:02:44,624 ♪ [moody pop] ♪ 68 00:02:44,625 --> 00:02:49,082 ♪ 69 00:02:49,083 --> 00:02:52,166 ♪ You put me under the covers. ♪ 70 00:02:52,167 --> 00:02:55,250 ♪ For all the world to see. ♪ 71 00:02:55,458 --> 00:02:58,124 ♪ But I never recovered. ♪ 72 00:02:58,125 --> 00:03:01,499 ♪ You never cared about me. ♪ 73 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:04,292 ♪ So now you're being uncovered. ♪ 74 00:03:04,542 --> 00:03:07,874 ♪ I kept all the receipts. ♪ 75 00:03:07,875 --> 00:03:10,832 ♪ You and all of the others. ♪ 76 00:03:10,833 --> 00:03:13,749 ♪ Under a fantasy. ♪ 77 00:03:13,750 --> 00:03:17,041 [rumbling thunder] 78 00:03:17,042 --> 00:03:20,582 [sirens] 79 00:03:20,583 --> 00:03:23,916 In 2003, a tornado hit my house. 80 00:03:23,917 --> 00:03:25,999 And, I had just gotten a divorce. 81 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,291 ♪ 82 00:03:28,292 --> 00:03:31,041 And when you have young children to take care of... 83 00:03:31,042 --> 00:03:34,124 I decided to go and work at the Bunny Ranch. 84 00:03:34,125 --> 00:03:36,375 I did what I had to do. 85 00:03:36,542 --> 00:03:39,916 And that decision altered my life. 86 00:03:39,917 --> 00:03:42,082 Completely. 87 00:03:42,083 --> 00:03:44,166 - I'm Shelly. - Marker. 88 00:03:44,167 --> 00:03:46,707 I was a working girl at the 89 00:03:46,708 --> 00:03:48,916 Moonlite Bunny Ranch in Nevada. 90 00:03:48,917 --> 00:03:50,582 Owned by Dennis Hof. 91 00:03:50,583 --> 00:03:53,708 I heard about the Moonlite Bunny Ranch from a talk show. 92 00:03:53,833 --> 00:03:56,916 [Tyra] Tucked away in a dusty corner of the Nevada desert, 93 00:03:56,917 --> 00:04:00,541 the world-famous Bunny Ranch is a legal brothel... 94 00:04:00,542 --> 00:04:02,500 where a man can hire a prostitute 95 00:04:02,667 --> 00:04:05,249 to satisfy almost any desire. 96 00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:08,166 [Shelly] I remember seeing Dennis Hof. 97 00:04:08,167 --> 00:04:09,499 [Dennis] Men come to the Ranch to do things 98 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:11,541 that their wives can't or won't do. 99 00:04:11,542 --> 00:04:13,833 We can fulfill almost any fantasy at the Bunny Ranch. 100 00:04:13,958 --> 00:04:17,124 It has to be safe, and most of all, it has to be fun. 101 00:04:17,125 --> 00:04:18,500 [Shelly] I think Air Force Amy was 102 00:04:18,708 --> 00:04:20,292 on the talk show with Dennis. 103 00:04:20,542 --> 00:04:21,500 [Host] Air Force Amy. 104 00:04:21,875 --> 00:04:24,999 [Amy] I orgasm for a living at the Bunny Ranch. 105 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,166 [Audience] Woo! 106 00:04:26,167 --> 00:04:28,874 And I was astounded. I had no idea 107 00:04:28,875 --> 00:04:30,999 that prostitution was legal 108 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,916 anywhere in the United States. 109 00:04:33,917 --> 00:04:37,208 And so, I sent an email 110 00:04:37,333 --> 00:04:39,207 with a picture of myself to the 111 00:04:39,208 --> 00:04:42,332 Moonlite Bunny Ranch, and Dennis Hof himself 112 00:04:42,333 --> 00:04:45,667 called me back within 2 hours, and said, 113 00:04:45,833 --> 00:04:49,000 "I want you out here." 114 00:04:49,125 --> 00:04:51,582 When I flew out to Nevada, 115 00:04:51,583 --> 00:04:54,957 I was picked up by Dennis Hof at the airport... 116 00:04:54,958 --> 00:04:56,708 ♪ 117 00:04:56,833 --> 00:05:00,124 And Dennis told me that HBO was doing a show, 118 00:05:00,125 --> 00:05:02,458 and he wanted me to do that. 119 00:05:02,750 --> 00:05:04,041 He walked me in. 120 00:05:04,042 --> 00:05:06,624 ♪ 121 00:05:06,625 --> 00:05:09,041 And there was cameramen there 122 00:05:09,042 --> 00:05:11,082 filming for the HBO show. 123 00:05:11,083 --> 00:05:13,832 ♪ 124 00:05:13,833 --> 00:05:16,916 Dennis took me out to the bungalow behind the building, 125 00:05:16,917 --> 00:05:18,666 and wanted sex. 126 00:05:18,667 --> 00:05:20,792 And I had just met this man. 127 00:05:20,917 --> 00:05:23,042 I had flown there to work. 128 00:05:23,167 --> 00:05:25,207 He was the boss. He was the owner. 129 00:05:25,208 --> 00:05:28,375 And he wanted to have sex 130 00:05:28,583 --> 00:05:30,166 the very first day I got there, 131 00:05:30,167 --> 00:05:33,124 and he didn't want to wear a condom. 132 00:05:33,125 --> 00:05:36,166 So, I was absolutely horrified. 133 00:05:36,167 --> 00:05:38,749 That was my first day at the Ranch. 134 00:05:38,750 --> 00:05:43,249 I was afraid to tell Dennis no. 135 00:05:43,250 --> 00:05:45,958 I had no idea what I was getting into. 136 00:05:47,917 --> 00:05:50,374 Nobody seems to care if a prostitute gets raped. 137 00:05:50,375 --> 00:05:51,667 [Dennis] I believe in the product. 138 00:05:51,792 --> 00:05:54,791 I love the product. I use it daily. 139 00:05:54,792 --> 00:05:57,166 [Shelly] I saw the ugly side of Dennis. 140 00:05:57,167 --> 00:05:58,917 [camera shutter clicking] 141 00:05:59,042 --> 00:06:01,167 But the world, on Cathouse, 142 00:06:01,292 --> 00:06:04,583 only saw the fun side of him. 143 00:06:04,708 --> 00:06:06,291 [Dennis] Girls, how about a toast here? 144 00:06:06,292 --> 00:06:08,207 Here's a toast to the best family, 145 00:06:08,208 --> 00:06:09,749 the Bunny Ranch family. 146 00:06:09,750 --> 00:06:12,749 [Shelly] Because they didn't know the real Dennis. 147 00:06:12,750 --> 00:06:15,082 ♪ 148 00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:17,166 Dennis was all about... 149 00:06:17,167 --> 00:06:19,041 being violent. 150 00:06:19,042 --> 00:06:21,542 ♪ 151 00:06:21,833 --> 00:06:24,957 ♪ 152 00:06:24,958 --> 00:06:27,999 Dennis Hof was actually born in Phoenix, Arizona 153 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,249 in 1946. 154 00:06:30,250 --> 00:06:31,874 His parents were immigrants, 155 00:06:31,875 --> 00:06:34,874 and they came to America for a better place. 156 00:06:34,875 --> 00:06:38,207 So, Dennis Hof actually grew up with very little money, 157 00:06:38,208 --> 00:06:41,499 and Dennis resented that, which made him 158 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:45,667 want to be more of a successful individual. 159 00:06:45,833 --> 00:06:48,499 He started by sweeping the gas station floor 160 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:50,541 and then ended up buying a gas station. 161 00:06:50,542 --> 00:06:54,249 After that, he decided to get into timeshare sales. 162 00:06:54,250 --> 00:06:56,166 [Shelly] Dennis sold timeshares 163 00:06:56,167 --> 00:06:57,791 before he owned the Bunny Ranch, 164 00:06:57,792 --> 00:06:59,916 and he used to always say... 165 00:06:59,917 --> 00:07:02,416 that he was still selling timeshares, 166 00:07:02,417 --> 00:07:05,207 it was just a triangular-shaped... 167 00:07:05,208 --> 00:07:07,666 piece of land. 168 00:07:07,667 --> 00:07:11,374 Pretty terrible to say, but uh, it was true. 169 00:07:11,375 --> 00:07:13,750 He was still selling timeshares, 170 00:07:13,875 --> 00:07:16,124 just it happened to be women. 171 00:07:16,125 --> 00:07:18,957 ♪ 172 00:07:18,958 --> 00:07:22,332 [Vernon] Dennis and his father decide to travel cross-country, 173 00:07:22,333 --> 00:07:23,916 and as they go through Reno, 174 00:07:23,917 --> 00:07:27,249 Dennis finds out about these brothels. 175 00:07:27,250 --> 00:07:30,374 He fell in love with the idea of... 176 00:07:30,375 --> 00:07:34,332 that type of business... 177 00:07:34,333 --> 00:07:35,666 The rest is history. 178 00:07:35,667 --> 00:07:37,166 [camera shutter clicking] 179 00:07:37,167 --> 00:07:39,332 ♪ 180 00:07:39,333 --> 00:07:41,332 Before Dennis, the prostitution industry 181 00:07:41,333 --> 00:07:44,957 was kind of like in the shadows for decades. 182 00:07:44,958 --> 00:07:46,957 But he mainstreamed it. 183 00:07:46,958 --> 00:07:48,250 I'm the new breed of brothel owner. 184 00:07:48,375 --> 00:07:49,833 I'm a straight guy. 185 00:07:49,958 --> 00:07:51,957 I pay my taxes, I do the right things. 186 00:07:51,958 --> 00:07:54,332 I come from, from a business background. 187 00:07:54,333 --> 00:07:55,832 I'm educated. 188 00:07:55,833 --> 00:07:57,291 That's the new breed of brothel owner. 189 00:07:57,292 --> 00:07:59,249 The old school is over. 190 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:04,041 ♪ 191 00:08:04,042 --> 00:08:06,999 Hello, I'm Air Force Amy. 192 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,541 I'm the most celebrated courtesan of modern times. 193 00:08:11,542 --> 00:08:15,124 [Crew] Air Force Amy interview. Take one. Marker. 194 00:08:15,125 --> 00:08:18,291 [Air Force Amy] Wait a minute. I got hair in my mouth. 195 00:08:18,292 --> 00:08:19,875 I worked for Dennis Hof... 196 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,249 and helped put the famous Moonlite Bunny Ranch 197 00:08:22,250 --> 00:08:24,082 on the map. 198 00:08:24,083 --> 00:08:25,957 ♪ 199 00:08:25,958 --> 00:08:28,082 I left home at a very, very early age, 200 00:08:28,083 --> 00:08:32,041 and I started hitchhiking around the country. 201 00:08:32,042 --> 00:08:35,999 I learned real early how to be resourceful. 202 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,957 And I learned also that sex was a commodity. 203 00:08:39,958 --> 00:08:43,041 So, my first 10 years in the industry, 204 00:08:43,042 --> 00:08:46,250 most of the brothels were really, really bad. 205 00:08:46,375 --> 00:08:48,291 The last place I worked had one window 206 00:08:48,292 --> 00:08:50,457 in the whole place that big, okay? 207 00:08:50,458 --> 00:08:53,207 On weekends, they would lock up the payphones 208 00:08:53,208 --> 00:08:55,625 because they didn't want you calling home and talking, 209 00:08:55,833 --> 00:08:58,416 and getting upset and leaving. 210 00:08:58,417 --> 00:09:00,332 It was awful. 211 00:09:00,333 --> 00:09:02,167 We used to call it [beep] Prison. 212 00:09:02,292 --> 00:09:05,499 ♪ 213 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:07,499 So, when I first got to the Bunny Ranch, 214 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:11,374 I just got catapulted- Pew!- into the 20th century. 215 00:09:11,375 --> 00:09:13,291 And everything was upbeat, upbeat, 216 00:09:13,292 --> 00:09:15,124 upbeat, upbeat, upbeat. 217 00:09:15,125 --> 00:09:16,333 ♪ [dance] 218 00:09:16,458 --> 00:09:18,166 Fun, fun, fun, fun. 219 00:09:18,167 --> 00:09:19,833 ♪ 220 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,374 Brothels are not, by law, allowed to advertise, 221 00:09:23,375 --> 00:09:25,832 but they can still go in the media. 222 00:09:25,833 --> 00:09:27,541 They can appear on TV shows, 223 00:09:27,542 --> 00:09:29,207 they can talk about their businesses, 224 00:09:29,208 --> 00:09:31,499 but they can't put up an ad in the newspaper. 225 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:34,166 So, Dennis was very savvy. 226 00:09:34,167 --> 00:09:35,541 He used the media. 227 00:09:35,542 --> 00:09:37,374 "Oh, I can't put an ad up? Great. 228 00:09:37,375 --> 00:09:39,416 I'll go on CNN and talk about it." 229 00:09:39,417 --> 00:09:41,999 [Host] Dennis Hof. Bunny Ranch owner. 230 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,917 [Amy] That was just a stroke of genius right there. 231 00:09:44,042 --> 00:09:45,374 And who would have ever thought- 232 00:09:45,375 --> 00:09:47,541 who had the balls 233 00:09:47,542 --> 00:09:49,875 to put prostitutes on TV? 234 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,624 Who thought that was gonna sell? 235 00:09:51,625 --> 00:09:53,875 [Dennis] After the airline sticks it to you... 236 00:09:54,083 --> 00:09:55,957 Come stick it to us! 237 00:09:55,958 --> 00:09:58,582 [Amy] Dennis did, and it did! 238 00:09:58,583 --> 00:10:00,582 We would go on every talk show. 239 00:10:00,583 --> 00:10:02,207 At the time, it was talk shows, right? 240 00:10:02,208 --> 00:10:04,041 There was Jenny Jones... 241 00:10:04,042 --> 00:10:05,416 [Jenny] But what's the right word for- 242 00:10:05,417 --> 00:10:07,249 is prostitute okay now? 243 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:09,707 [Amy] I got Most Outrageous Guest of the Year 244 00:10:09,708 --> 00:10:13,124 on Jenny Jones. There was Tyra Banks. 245 00:10:13,125 --> 00:10:15,333 [Tyra] Joining us also is Dennis Hof. 246 00:10:15,458 --> 00:10:17,083 He owns the Moonlite Bunny Ranch. 247 00:10:17,208 --> 00:10:17,833 [Amy] Oprah. 248 00:10:18,125 --> 00:10:19,624 [Oprah] While she waited for a client, 249 00:10:19,625 --> 00:10:21,541 Brooke gave us a tour of the Bunny Ranch. 250 00:10:21,542 --> 00:10:23,291 [Brooke] There's approximately 30 rooms, 251 00:10:23,292 --> 00:10:24,458 and they're always full. 252 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:26,792 Dennis made himself the authority on prostitution. 253 00:10:26,917 --> 00:10:27,875 And he said that's how it works. 254 00:10:28,042 --> 00:10:30,207 He goes, "Media begets media." 255 00:10:30,208 --> 00:10:32,792 Once you do one story on prostitution, 256 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,750 networks go, "Let's interview that guy." 257 00:10:34,958 --> 00:10:37,666 Pretty soon, he's the guy. 258 00:10:37,667 --> 00:10:40,124 [Dennis] I'm selling sex like other people 259 00:10:40,125 --> 00:10:41,916 are selling soda pop. 260 00:10:41,917 --> 00:10:43,667 [Amy] And when Dennis got into the industry, 261 00:10:43,875 --> 00:10:46,416 it was really popular... 262 00:10:46,417 --> 00:10:47,999 and cool to be a pimp. 263 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,666 You had Snoop Dogg, you had Pimp My Ride, 264 00:10:49,667 --> 00:10:52,374 you know, pimps were really, really glamorised, 265 00:10:52,375 --> 00:10:56,582 so Dennis had his hat in the ring at the exact right time 266 00:10:56,583 --> 00:10:58,499 because it was cool to be a pimp. 267 00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:00,291 [cheering] 268 00:11:00,292 --> 00:11:01,999 In the early 2000s, 269 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,124 it was a time that was sort of selling itself 270 00:11:04,125 --> 00:11:06,666 as being all about women's sexual liberation. 271 00:11:06,667 --> 00:11:08,291 There's Heidi Fleiss whose job as a madame 272 00:11:08,292 --> 00:11:10,375 is being talked about as the ultimate success story 273 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:12,417 of an intendent woman entrepreneur. 274 00:11:12,542 --> 00:11:14,332 There's Paris Hilton's leaked sex tape 275 00:11:14,333 --> 00:11:16,124 becoming a pop culture staple. 276 00:11:16,125 --> 00:11:18,124 And then there's the photoshoot of Britney Spears 277 00:11:18,125 --> 00:11:20,042 that is clearly invoking some kind of 278 00:11:20,208 --> 00:11:22,332 Lolita fantasy for men. 279 00:11:22,333 --> 00:11:27,042 And so, sex itself becomes a thing to be celebrated. 280 00:11:27,208 --> 00:11:28,332 [honking] 281 00:11:28,333 --> 00:11:30,542 HBO at that time also had this show called 282 00:11:30,667 --> 00:11:33,166 Taxicab Confessions, where they put 283 00:11:33,167 --> 00:11:35,874 hidden cameras in a taxicab and picked up people. 284 00:11:35,875 --> 00:11:37,167 And it just dawned on me, I said, 285 00:11:37,417 --> 00:11:39,707 "Let's put hidden cameras in a brothel and capture the 286 00:11:39,708 --> 00:11:42,541 conversations of why men and women go there." 287 00:11:42,542 --> 00:11:45,374 So, I called the Bunny Ranch, and I said, 288 00:11:45,375 --> 00:11:47,541 "Dennis, can I come do that?" 289 00:11:47,542 --> 00:11:49,291 "Sure!" [chuckling] "Come on out!" 290 00:11:49,292 --> 00:11:50,707 ♪ 291 00:11:50,708 --> 00:11:52,207 So, we drive to the Bunny Ranch, 292 00:11:52,208 --> 00:11:54,624 and Dennis says, "George, you know what I want?" 293 00:11:54,625 --> 00:11:55,958 I go, "What do you want, Dennis?" 294 00:11:56,083 --> 00:11:57,666 He says, "I want to be a household name." 295 00:11:57,667 --> 00:12:01,291 And I said, "I'll do my best." 296 00:12:01,292 --> 00:12:04,624 So, I show up at HBO's Documentary Division, 297 00:12:04,625 --> 00:12:06,999 and Sheila Nevins was in charge of that, 298 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,166 and Patti Kaplan does all their directing. 299 00:12:09,167 --> 00:12:11,666 They had done Real Sex together, that show, 300 00:12:11,667 --> 00:12:13,582 and other documentaries. 301 00:12:13,583 --> 00:12:15,499 And Sheila Nevins says, 302 00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:17,707 "We think it's a wonderful idea." 303 00:12:17,708 --> 00:12:21,124 So, I turned the reins over to the HBO folks, 304 00:12:21,125 --> 00:12:24,332 you know, Sheila and Patti, and they did the rest. 305 00:12:24,333 --> 00:12:26,624 ♪ 306 00:12:26,625 --> 00:12:28,332 [Amy] So, the genesis of Cathouse 307 00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:30,167 was it didn't seem 308 00:12:30,292 --> 00:12:33,000 very much different than all the TV and media 309 00:12:33,167 --> 00:12:34,917 that we were already doing. 310 00:12:35,208 --> 00:12:35,875 ♪ 311 00:12:36,208 --> 00:12:38,583 So, sex and entertainment at that time 312 00:12:38,708 --> 00:12:40,332 covered two sides. 313 00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:43,666 One side was that all porn denigrates women. 314 00:12:43,667 --> 00:12:45,499 And then there was another side that said 315 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:47,208 porn empowers women, or- 316 00:12:47,333 --> 00:12:50,291 and can empower women if it's done correctly. 317 00:12:50,292 --> 00:12:53,624 And in this kind of ferment, this little show... 318 00:12:53,625 --> 00:12:56,875 [laughs] came onto HBO. 319 00:12:57,167 --> 00:12:59,167 ♪ 320 00:12:59,292 --> 00:13:01,374 [Shelly] Dennis wanted me to be a big part of 321 00:13:01,375 --> 00:13:02,791 the Cathouse show. 322 00:13:02,792 --> 00:13:05,332 But I didn't know that young girls 323 00:13:05,333 --> 00:13:07,541 would come to work there that probably would've 324 00:13:07,542 --> 00:13:10,000 never even thought of working at the 325 00:13:10,125 --> 00:13:12,374 Bunny Ranch if they hadn't seen the show. 326 00:13:12,375 --> 00:13:16,208 So, looking back, I should've never agreed to do it. 327 00:13:21,417 --> 00:13:22,333 [Host] First, reality TV took us inside the home 328 00:13:22,542 --> 00:13:23,666 of the Osbournes. Then there was 329 00:13:23,667 --> 00:13:25,291 The Anna Nicole Show. 330 00:13:25,292 --> 00:13:27,333 Now, a provocative new HBO documentary is 331 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:30,374 showing viewers a very different kind of house. 332 00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:34,541 Cathouse was supposed to be the first time ever 333 00:13:34,542 --> 00:13:37,333 they filmed live negotiations 334 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:39,166 from inside a brothel. 335 00:13:39,167 --> 00:13:42,666 A Pamper Party, we do, um, lots of massage, 336 00:13:42,667 --> 00:13:44,749 sensual music, sensual massage. 337 00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:46,916 Everything is totally to pay attention to you. 338 00:13:46,917 --> 00:13:48,583 It's all about you. 339 00:13:48,708 --> 00:13:50,624 [Tom] I was the director of photography. 340 00:13:50,625 --> 00:13:52,707 - The gaffer. - The coordinating producer. 341 00:13:52,708 --> 00:13:55,332 One of the sound mixers for HBO's Cathouse. 342 00:13:55,333 --> 00:13:57,292 ♪ 343 00:13:57,417 --> 00:13:59,666 I was contacted by New York producers saying, 344 00:13:59,667 --> 00:14:01,541 "Can you do this job, can you be there? 345 00:14:01,542 --> 00:14:05,166 It's going to be very hands... on." 346 00:14:05,167 --> 00:14:06,957 I didn't know anything other than 347 00:14:06,958 --> 00:14:09,791 there's going to be a lot of sex workers in this shoot, 348 00:14:09,792 --> 00:14:12,582 and it's gonna be odd and weird, 349 00:14:12,583 --> 00:14:15,416 but they're paying, so I will go. 350 00:14:15,417 --> 00:14:17,333 [Tom] So, I was shooting a lot of documentaries. 351 00:14:17,458 --> 00:14:20,457 I had an old friend by the name of Patti Kaplan, 352 00:14:20,458 --> 00:14:22,832 who was the director, producer of the show. 353 00:14:22,833 --> 00:14:25,582 So, Patti thought of me 354 00:14:25,583 --> 00:14:27,832 when she had to shoot 355 00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:29,457 in the Cathouse. 356 00:14:29,458 --> 00:14:30,832 [Host] Why did you want to make this documentary? 357 00:14:30,833 --> 00:14:32,375 Was there some sort of message 358 00:14:32,542 --> 00:14:33,249 that you were going after? 359 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:34,707 Was there some sort of morality 360 00:14:34,708 --> 00:14:36,582 that you wanted to explore? 361 00:14:36,583 --> 00:14:37,749 [Patti] I think, actually, 362 00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:40,791 the approach was extremely nonjudgmental. 363 00:14:40,792 --> 00:14:43,125 No, there wasn't a morality to explore. 364 00:14:43,292 --> 00:14:45,957 It was more like, this is an environment 365 00:14:45,958 --> 00:14:47,999 that people are quite unfamiliar with. 366 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,999 So, let's get inside and see how it works. 367 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,791 Honestly, when they came to me and said 368 00:14:52,792 --> 00:14:55,125 you're gonna be spending months 369 00:14:55,292 --> 00:14:57,666 at a brothel, I'm like, "Great!" 370 00:14:57,667 --> 00:14:59,417 And then, I'm like, "What?" 371 00:14:59,542 --> 00:15:02,000 You just think you go into a brothel and you have sex. 372 00:15:03,875 --> 00:15:05,417 [Client] Okay. 373 00:15:12,542 --> 00:15:15,041 [Jill] But it was mostly about the way the girls 374 00:15:15,042 --> 00:15:16,999 worked with the men and how they negotiate 375 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,292 and they come up, you know, with a price. 376 00:15:32,542 --> 00:15:34,458 On Cathouse, we had a very 377 00:15:34,625 --> 00:15:37,666 particular kind of task. 378 00:15:37,667 --> 00:15:40,499 We wanted to make the 379 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:41,832 environment look natural. 380 00:15:41,833 --> 00:15:44,332 We wanted it to feel like 381 00:15:44,333 --> 00:15:45,916 that was what you would experience 382 00:15:45,917 --> 00:15:47,832 if you walked into the room. 383 00:15:47,833 --> 00:15:50,749 We also want the faces to look good. 384 00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:52,832 There's a certain amount of glamor. 385 00:15:52,833 --> 00:15:55,208 And, in order to create that glamor, 386 00:15:55,375 --> 00:15:57,666 we need to actually use lights. 387 00:15:57,667 --> 00:16:01,417 [Tom] Cathouse was a fascinating little social experiment. 388 00:16:06,958 --> 00:16:08,999 [Tom] That dealt with the way people's sexuality 389 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,957 was being expressed. 390 00:16:10,958 --> 00:16:13,582 [Client] Ah. [laughing] 391 00:16:13,583 --> 00:16:16,041 [Host] Cathouse premieres tomorrow night on HBO 392 00:16:16,042 --> 00:16:19,041 right after the season finale of The Sopranos. 393 00:16:19,042 --> 00:16:21,749 I think that programming Cathouse right after 394 00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:23,332 the season finale of The Sopranos, 395 00:16:23,333 --> 00:16:26,416 and season 4 of The Sopranos so it already has, like, 396 00:16:26,417 --> 00:16:29,333 this kind of robust, built-in audience, 397 00:16:29,458 --> 00:16:32,374 it says something about the network's desire 398 00:16:32,375 --> 00:16:36,166 to want this documentary to do well. 399 00:16:36,167 --> 00:16:38,832 [DeAnne] I remember watching The Sopranos. 400 00:16:38,833 --> 00:16:41,375 At the end of the show, suddenly, like, 401 00:16:41,542 --> 00:16:44,124 I'm in a brothel in Nevada and there's 402 00:16:44,125 --> 00:16:46,416 all this craziness going on. 403 00:16:46,417 --> 00:16:48,583 There was a lot of nudity and a lot of sex. 404 00:16:55,833 --> 00:16:56,957 [Client] Yeah, God damn! 405 00:16:56,958 --> 00:16:58,500 [Deanne] It was like a traffic accident 406 00:16:58,625 --> 00:17:00,707 that you can't avert your eyes from. 407 00:17:00,708 --> 00:17:03,458 [Racquel] It very much sort of focuses on the women, 408 00:17:03,583 --> 00:17:06,041 but they're constantly talking about how much 409 00:17:06,042 --> 00:17:07,417 they love working at the Bunny Ranch, 410 00:17:07,625 --> 00:17:09,041 how much they love sex. 411 00:17:09,042 --> 00:17:11,207 I would do this until I was 60 if I could. 412 00:17:11,208 --> 00:17:13,750 I really would. It's just that fun. 413 00:17:13,875 --> 00:17:16,582 [Racquel] And you sort of come away from it thinking, oh, 414 00:17:16,583 --> 00:17:19,124 what a lovely sort of place for these young women 415 00:17:19,125 --> 00:17:21,666 to find, you know, economic empowerment. 416 00:17:21,667 --> 00:17:23,333 [Host] What do you think people will walk away from, 417 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:24,999 at the end of this, watching this documentary? 418 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,041 [Patti] Uh... [Host] Disgusted, intrigued? 419 00:17:29,042 --> 00:17:30,750 Wanting to sign up to be pros- 420 00:17:30,875 --> 00:17:32,000 [Patti] I think much less disgusted 421 00:17:32,125 --> 00:17:33,832 than they may have been. 422 00:17:33,833 --> 00:17:35,416 There's a perspective, you know, that, 423 00:17:35,417 --> 00:17:37,917 needless to say, about selling sex 424 00:17:38,042 --> 00:17:39,582 that doesn't make a lot of people comfortable, 425 00:17:39,583 --> 00:17:43,082 but I think the environment is so pleasant. 426 00:17:43,083 --> 00:17:46,082 [Racquel] The tone of this documentary is... 427 00:17:46,083 --> 00:17:48,916 it really just reads as, like, a PR puff piece. 428 00:17:48,917 --> 00:17:50,166 [Dennis] This is compelling television. 429 00:17:50,167 --> 00:17:52,124 Nobody's seen the innerworkings of 430 00:17:52,125 --> 00:17:53,292 a working girl... [Patti] It is compelling. 431 00:17:53,583 --> 00:17:55,999 [Dennis] ...and a client. It's unbelievable television. 432 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,791 [Ted] Both Patti, the director, and Dennis, 433 00:17:58,792 --> 00:18:01,583 had a pretty clear idea of what they wanted to do 434 00:18:01,708 --> 00:18:02,999 before it happened. 435 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,916 They would really plan it out together. 436 00:18:05,917 --> 00:18:06,999 [Shelly] It wasn't a documentary. 437 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,166 We were told what to do. 438 00:18:10,167 --> 00:18:12,874 The Cathouse show was set up. 439 00:18:12,875 --> 00:18:16,999 ♪ 440 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:17,999 [Cathouse] Who likes boobies? 441 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,457 [laughs] 442 00:18:20,458 --> 00:18:22,082 [Shelly] This was the first scene 443 00:18:22,083 --> 00:18:25,249 that I ever filmed for Cathouse. 444 00:18:25,250 --> 00:18:27,750 [Cathouse] When it comes to actual oral sex... 445 00:18:27,875 --> 00:18:30,542 We had to teach a class about sex 446 00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:33,249 to a bunch of men, and... 447 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:36,041 I just remember being very nervous. 448 00:18:36,042 --> 00:18:38,458 You know, sometimes guys will just dig in, 449 00:18:38,667 --> 00:18:39,999 and it may be painful, 450 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,667 the girl's not worked up enough. 451 00:18:41,792 --> 00:18:43,458 You got to start out slow. 452 00:18:43,583 --> 00:18:46,333 [Shelly] That is not a client. That is Jesse, 453 00:18:46,542 --> 00:18:48,874 and he was a driver and a bartender 454 00:18:48,875 --> 00:18:50,082 at the Bunny Ranch. 455 00:18:50,083 --> 00:18:51,583 [Jesse] There I am. 456 00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:53,082 [Cathouse] Usually try to get them to [beep] 457 00:18:53,083 --> 00:18:54,832 beforehand, and uh... 458 00:18:54,833 --> 00:18:56,000 How? 459 00:18:56,333 --> 00:19:00,166 Uh, just by uh, [beep] and rubbing and touching. 460 00:19:00,167 --> 00:19:02,249 Everyone in the scene that was supposed to be customers 461 00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:04,167 were actually friends of Dennis 462 00:19:04,292 --> 00:19:06,666 or people who worked at the Bunny Ranch. 463 00:19:06,667 --> 00:19:07,875 [Cathouse] What do you like about boobs? 464 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,583 I like nibbling on them a little bit. 465 00:19:09,708 --> 00:19:11,999 [Jesse] This was something that they 466 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,916 concocted for the show. 467 00:19:13,917 --> 00:19:19,000 ♪ 468 00:19:19,125 --> 00:19:20,916 [Ted] This was definitely not 469 00:19:20,917 --> 00:19:23,375 what I thought it was gonna be. 470 00:19:23,542 --> 00:19:25,750 The reason I wanted to work 471 00:19:25,875 --> 00:19:28,583 on this series was because... 472 00:19:28,708 --> 00:19:32,374 of the people that I was working with. 473 00:19:32,375 --> 00:19:35,208 I knew that they were serious documentarians, 474 00:19:35,333 --> 00:19:38,916 and did, you know, really quality work 475 00:19:38,917 --> 00:19:40,916 and I could learn a lot from them. 476 00:19:40,917 --> 00:19:43,499 But here we had documentary people 477 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:45,791 controlling who appears on camera 478 00:19:45,792 --> 00:19:48,041 and what's going to happen when, and... 479 00:19:48,042 --> 00:19:49,957 it was a constructed reality 480 00:19:49,958 --> 00:19:52,707 that was for entertainment purposes. 481 00:19:52,708 --> 00:19:54,041 [Air Force Amy] They want their scene. 482 00:19:54,042 --> 00:19:55,125 They want what they want. 483 00:19:55,375 --> 00:19:57,791 They've got it in their head what they want it to be, 484 00:19:57,792 --> 00:20:00,166 and they're gonna manipulate you to get it, 485 00:20:00,167 --> 00:20:02,208 whether it's good or bad for you. 486 00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:08,916 [laughing] 487 00:20:08,917 --> 00:20:11,999 [Amy] Regardless of what it does to your image. 488 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,542 I'm madly in love with Cathouse. 489 00:20:13,667 --> 00:20:15,582 I'm just madly in love with whores. 490 00:20:15,583 --> 00:20:17,957 This is an interview with Sheila Nevins, 491 00:20:17,958 --> 00:20:20,166 head of the documentary unit at HBO. 492 00:20:20,167 --> 00:20:21,917 I love them, they're honest. 493 00:20:22,042 --> 00:20:23,250 They're great actresses. 494 00:20:23,375 --> 00:20:25,124 The greatest actresses in the business 495 00:20:25,125 --> 00:20:26,707 are in this expensive whorehouse. 496 00:20:26,708 --> 00:20:29,666 I mean, to act like this guy matters to you? 497 00:20:29,667 --> 00:20:31,791 [beep], you got to be really an actress, 498 00:20:31,792 --> 00:20:33,332 studio actress to do that. 499 00:20:33,333 --> 00:20:35,166 [Shelly] Patti liked my look. 500 00:20:35,167 --> 00:20:36,666 [Cathouse] Hi, I'm Shelly Dushell. 501 00:20:36,667 --> 00:20:40,166 [Shelly] She liked the fact that I was tall, and thin, 502 00:20:40,167 --> 00:20:43,833 and large-breasted, and long blonde hair, 503 00:20:43,958 --> 00:20:46,124 and she didn't like my eyes. 504 00:20:46,125 --> 00:20:47,999 At one point, Patti Kaplan told me 505 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,041 I needed to have my eyes done, 506 00:20:50,042 --> 00:20:52,583 and the cameraman got mad at her, 507 00:20:52,708 --> 00:20:54,082 and pulled her out in the hallway, and said, 508 00:20:54,083 --> 00:20:56,207 "Don't you dare talk to her that way." 509 00:20:56,208 --> 00:20:58,207 "Don't you tell her she needs plastic surgery." 510 00:20:58,208 --> 00:21:00,374 [Cathouse] Alright, boys, well, our time is up, 511 00:21:00,375 --> 00:21:02,832 and we have to go [beep] now because we're all horny. 512 00:21:02,833 --> 00:21:06,082 [Jesse] Cathouse was basically just promotional video 513 00:21:06,083 --> 00:21:07,874 for the Bunny Ranch. 514 00:21:07,875 --> 00:21:11,082 [Shelly] The fact that I was a softcore porn actress 515 00:21:11,083 --> 00:21:13,124 is humiliating. 516 00:21:13,125 --> 00:21:15,875 But Dennis told me I was gonna be a star, 517 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,749 that I... 518 00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:20,916 needed to be on the show, I'd make tons of money. 519 00:21:20,917 --> 00:21:22,875 I would be famous. 520 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,249 It would make everyone rich. 521 00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:26,917 It didn't make me rich. 522 00:21:28,125 --> 00:21:29,708 I was victimised... 523 00:21:29,833 --> 00:21:33,375 and Dennis Hof was the main victimiser. 524 00:21:39,042 --> 00:21:42,291 I was very scared the first time I was in a lineup. 525 00:21:42,292 --> 00:21:44,999 I didn't know what to expect. 526 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,833 [bell chiming] 527 00:21:46,958 --> 00:21:48,833 This bell gets rung. 528 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,166 So, the bell would ring 529 00:21:50,167 --> 00:21:52,083 when a person would come to the door 530 00:21:52,208 --> 00:21:54,667 and they'd run down the hallway. 531 00:21:54,792 --> 00:21:56,499 [Tom] The women would come running down these 532 00:21:56,500 --> 00:22:00,291 two long hallways in their four-inch heels, 533 00:22:00,292 --> 00:22:02,832 and they came in and stood in this thing 534 00:22:02,833 --> 00:22:05,499 called the "lineup," where they tried to 535 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:09,750 attract the attention of the guy who came in. 536 00:22:09,875 --> 00:22:13,041 [Shelly] I both felt pick me and don't pick me, 537 00:22:13,042 --> 00:22:15,166 because I was nervous. 538 00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:16,208 [Robin] One of the first things we did was 539 00:22:16,542 --> 00:22:19,042 shoot the lineup that Dennis wanted women to do 540 00:22:19,167 --> 00:22:20,542 when a new client comes in. 541 00:22:20,792 --> 00:22:22,332 And it's a demeaning process. 542 00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:23,999 You know, pick your Barbie. 543 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,541 Do you want Disco Barbie? 544 00:22:25,542 --> 00:22:27,832 Do you want this Barbie? Do you want Sexy Barbie? 545 00:22:27,833 --> 00:22:31,082 But Patti immediately said, "Well, it's a stage. 546 00:22:31,083 --> 00:22:34,167 Give them a spotlight and let them show themselves off." 547 00:22:34,292 --> 00:22:36,375 And what Tom and I saw was, 548 00:22:36,542 --> 00:22:39,166 no, this is not showing off. This is... 549 00:22:39,167 --> 00:22:41,082 human beings on sale. 550 00:22:41,083 --> 00:22:43,999 [Tom] But if they did too much to attract the attention, 551 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,083 that is if they talked... 552 00:22:46,208 --> 00:22:48,332 beyond, "Hello, my name is," 553 00:22:48,333 --> 00:22:50,582 or if they revealed too much or they did 554 00:22:50,583 --> 00:22:53,332 a little too much action, it was dirty hustling. 555 00:22:53,333 --> 00:22:55,166 [Crew] Marker. 556 00:22:55,167 --> 00:22:57,166 [Amy] I remember one episode of Cathouse, 557 00:22:57,167 --> 00:22:59,041 it said there's no moving in lineup. 558 00:22:59,042 --> 00:23:01,124 And then they cut away to a shot of me just moving, 559 00:23:01,125 --> 00:23:02,291 doing all this stuff. 560 00:23:02,292 --> 00:23:03,958 [Dennis] We don't want them to do things 561 00:23:04,083 --> 00:23:05,291 to give an unfair advantage. 562 00:23:05,292 --> 00:23:07,417 You know, grind or anything. [laughs] 563 00:23:07,542 --> 00:23:10,291 [Amy] I could be the brunt of a joke. It's okay. 564 00:23:10,292 --> 00:23:12,917 But it became more difficult for me 565 00:23:13,042 --> 00:23:14,374 as I became more famous 566 00:23:14,375 --> 00:23:16,499 because people would think that, oh, 567 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,875 she's too famous, she's gonna cost too much. 568 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,375 [laughing] 569 00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:25,167 [Amy] Because when we all say our names, 570 00:23:25,333 --> 00:23:26,957 and they go, "Air Force Amy!" 571 00:23:26,958 --> 00:23:28,416 And I think I'm getting picked, but I'm not. 572 00:23:28,417 --> 00:23:30,667 They just recognize me. 573 00:23:30,833 --> 00:23:33,042 So, not only do they know who I am, 574 00:23:33,167 --> 00:23:35,207 they didn't pick me. 575 00:23:35,208 --> 00:23:36,791 [Shelly] When I was picked, 576 00:23:36,792 --> 00:23:40,124 I went to the horrible little room I had. 577 00:23:40,125 --> 00:23:42,207 I was new there, so I just got 578 00:23:42,208 --> 00:23:44,166 the worst room there was. 579 00:23:44,167 --> 00:23:46,332 And, uh, negotiated. 580 00:23:46,333 --> 00:23:48,291 When I had sex, 581 00:23:48,292 --> 00:23:50,499 I didn't know if I would be able to... 582 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:54,166 do what was expected of me for the money. 583 00:23:54,167 --> 00:23:56,124 I had just got there. 584 00:23:56,125 --> 00:23:58,291 I had no idea what I was doing. 585 00:23:58,292 --> 00:24:00,499 ♪ 586 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:03,374 I had men that did not want sex. 587 00:24:03,375 --> 00:24:06,375 I had one that hired me just to watch me smoke. 588 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:08,499 He had a smoking fetish. 589 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:11,708 And he wanted me to lay on the bed in a seductive pose 590 00:24:11,875 --> 00:24:15,374 in my lingerie and just smoke cigarettes. 591 00:24:15,375 --> 00:24:17,166 That's all he wanted to see. 592 00:24:17,167 --> 00:24:18,499 But most of the time, 593 00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:21,750 just regular clients come in wanting sex. 594 00:24:21,958 --> 00:24:26,082 And, there are repercussions that came from that. 595 00:24:26,083 --> 00:24:27,457 There are people that judged me 596 00:24:27,458 --> 00:24:29,375 for working there, and... 597 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:32,832 there were things that went on that I would not 598 00:24:32,833 --> 00:24:34,917 want a young girl experiencing. 599 00:24:35,042 --> 00:24:37,375 There are some really sick guys out there that 600 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,333 really want some really gross, disgusting things. 601 00:24:41,458 --> 00:24:44,250 Men that want to be peed on, 602 00:24:44,375 --> 00:24:45,875 and pooped on, 603 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,541 and to be hurt, and to be humiliated, 604 00:24:48,542 --> 00:24:51,833 or they want to hurt and humiliate you. 605 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,707 There were young girls that were coming to work there 606 00:24:53,708 --> 00:24:56,541 that probably would've never even thought of 607 00:24:56,542 --> 00:24:58,500 working there if they hadn't seen the show. 608 00:24:58,625 --> 00:25:00,332 I was 30 when I worked there. 609 00:25:00,333 --> 00:25:02,374 I had already been married and divorced, 610 00:25:02,375 --> 00:25:04,833 and had experienced life and sex, 611 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,541 and it's just horrifying to think that 612 00:25:07,542 --> 00:25:11,917 girls so young would want to do that. 613 00:25:12,042 --> 00:25:14,457 [Tom] Over the weeks that I worked there, 614 00:25:14,458 --> 00:25:17,249 I realized that HBO 615 00:25:17,250 --> 00:25:20,457 really never wanted to dip further 616 00:25:20,458 --> 00:25:24,250 than just below this first public relations level. 617 00:25:24,375 --> 00:25:26,208 ♪ 618 00:25:26,333 --> 00:25:27,957 Dennis groping people. 619 00:25:27,958 --> 00:25:30,416 I mean, that was a daily occurrence. 620 00:25:30,417 --> 00:25:32,166 And they were supposed to like it. 621 00:25:32,167 --> 00:25:34,541 And they pretended to like it. 622 00:25:34,542 --> 00:25:36,291 [Dennis] I own the candy store. 623 00:25:36,292 --> 00:25:38,166 I'm eating all the candy. I love it. 624 00:25:38,167 --> 00:25:40,999 [Tom] Nobody asked, "Do you ever not want Dennis 625 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,582 to touch you?" when he's touching people. 626 00:25:43,583 --> 00:25:46,875 That was not part of the agreement of Cathouse. 627 00:25:47,125 --> 00:25:48,374 [cheering] 628 00:25:48,375 --> 00:25:50,541 [Shelly] They wanted to sell a show. 629 00:25:50,542 --> 00:25:53,833 They wanted to make money off of that show, 630 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,500 and they wanted to make money off of the, 631 00:25:55,667 --> 00:25:58,666 the girls having a great time. 632 00:25:58,667 --> 00:26:01,457 They just didn't want to show the ugly side of it. 633 00:26:01,458 --> 00:26:03,207 ♪ 634 00:26:03,208 --> 00:26:06,707 Patti would tell us ahead of time what we were going to do. 635 00:26:06,708 --> 00:26:08,417 "Okay, there's going to be a clown." 636 00:26:08,542 --> 00:26:10,292 "He's gonna come in the door." 637 00:26:10,417 --> 00:26:12,166 "He's gonna have balloons." 638 00:26:12,167 --> 00:26:13,541 "He's going to pick Shelly." 639 00:26:13,542 --> 00:26:15,374 "They're going to sit at the bar." 640 00:26:15,375 --> 00:26:17,833 "Talk to him for about 5 or 10 minutes, 641 00:26:18,042 --> 00:26:19,499 and then take him to the room." 642 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:25,000 ♪ 643 00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:28,374 I was expected to sleep with the clown. 644 00:26:28,375 --> 00:26:30,416 They thought that it would be 645 00:26:30,417 --> 00:26:31,499 interesting for the show. 646 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:33,500 [laughing] 647 00:26:34,042 --> 00:26:35,707 What you see is what you get. I mean, 648 00:26:35,708 --> 00:26:37,749 we don't show- [clapping]- 649 00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:40,291 exactly, but we get pretty close. 650 00:26:40,292 --> 00:26:43,124 We're very tasteful even when we're in a whorehouse. 651 00:26:43,125 --> 00:26:48,791 ♪ 652 00:26:48,792 --> 00:26:51,207 When I think about working on the show, Cathouse, 653 00:26:51,208 --> 00:26:55,208 I think of it as a job that's not my favorite, 654 00:26:55,333 --> 00:26:58,166 but I'm not ashamed of any of the work that I did on it. 655 00:26:58,167 --> 00:26:59,707 The show... 656 00:26:59,708 --> 00:27:02,499 tried to replicate 657 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,999 that sort of sense of silliness, 658 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,457 if you will, because it's a fantasy world. 659 00:27:07,458 --> 00:27:09,500 And I bought into the fantasy, 660 00:27:09,625 --> 00:27:12,000 but then so did Sheila and so did Patti. 661 00:27:12,125 --> 00:27:13,624 [Dennis] Enjoy yourself. I know you will. 662 00:27:13,625 --> 00:27:15,332 It's us projecting an image. 663 00:27:15,333 --> 00:27:17,707 It's us promoting the girls. 664 00:27:17,708 --> 00:27:20,499 It's us doing things like we're doing right now 665 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,999 to let the world know that the Bunny Ranch 666 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,833 is the party place of America. 667 00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:25,666 [Phillip] It's his business to keep it 668 00:27:25,667 --> 00:27:28,500 as attractive as possible. 669 00:27:28,625 --> 00:27:31,750 But sometimes, it was painful to watch. 670 00:27:37,292 --> 00:27:41,083 Patti told me that I would only get paid for sex scenes. 671 00:27:41,333 --> 00:27:43,374 That I would not get paid for 672 00:27:43,375 --> 00:27:45,249 all the other scenes. 673 00:27:45,250 --> 00:27:48,499 One of the reasons that reality television 674 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:51,708 can be so successful is... 675 00:27:51,833 --> 00:27:55,499 because you're dealing with a lot of unpaid labor. 676 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:57,374 And yet, they make tons of money 677 00:27:57,375 --> 00:27:59,791 for the networks that they air on. 678 00:27:59,792 --> 00:28:02,499 And knowing that the women in Cathouse 679 00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:05,332 were not compensated for... 680 00:28:05,333 --> 00:28:08,832 really being the heart of the show, 681 00:28:08,833 --> 00:28:11,874 it's just another form of exploitation. 682 00:28:11,875 --> 00:28:14,582 [Shelly] HBO wasn't much different than a pimp 683 00:28:14,583 --> 00:28:17,082 because I was barely paid anything. 684 00:28:17,083 --> 00:28:19,332 I was recognised everywhere I went 685 00:28:19,333 --> 00:28:20,791 after the show came out. 686 00:28:20,792 --> 00:28:23,499 It would've been nice to have a little bit of money 687 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:24,874 to show for it. 688 00:28:24,875 --> 00:28:27,582 I was actually losing money being on HBO 689 00:28:27,583 --> 00:28:29,374 because I wasn't working 690 00:28:29,375 --> 00:28:32,457 when I was doing the filming for the show. 691 00:28:32,458 --> 00:28:35,833 [Robin] Cathouse dealt with an interesting set of specifics 692 00:28:35,958 --> 00:28:38,582 in dealing with human beings, and the fact that 693 00:28:38,583 --> 00:28:41,332 you are selling a human connection. 694 00:28:41,333 --> 00:28:43,582 The working girl is doing that. 695 00:28:43,583 --> 00:28:45,207 But that is between two people. 696 00:28:45,208 --> 00:28:47,832 The fact that HBO is monetizing that sexual 697 00:28:47,833 --> 00:28:50,999 transaction in a way that exploited the women, 698 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,582 it was making me regret my involvement in Cathouse. 699 00:28:54,583 --> 00:28:56,874 ♪ 700 00:28:56,875 --> 00:28:59,582 As we were following the action that happens, 701 00:28:59,583 --> 00:29:01,791 we would end up sometimes in the room. 702 00:29:01,792 --> 00:29:03,749 And at one point, we were with 703 00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:06,707 Isabella Soprano and her client at the time, 704 00:29:06,708 --> 00:29:07,833 and we ended up being in the room 705 00:29:07,958 --> 00:29:10,624 while she was having sex with the client. 706 00:29:10,625 --> 00:29:16,916 ♪ 707 00:29:16,917 --> 00:29:20,582 This is the first time I'm watching this. 708 00:29:20,583 --> 00:29:22,582 This should have been the point where we 709 00:29:22,583 --> 00:29:24,291 scooted out of that room. 710 00:29:24,292 --> 00:29:25,582 ♪ 711 00:29:25,583 --> 00:29:28,542 I was like, "I did not sign up for this." 712 00:29:28,667 --> 00:29:30,916 "I'm not here to shoot porn." 713 00:29:30,917 --> 00:29:32,916 "I'm here to shoot a documentary." 714 00:29:32,917 --> 00:29:34,499 This is not what I would normally be doing 715 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:36,707 at work, like... 716 00:29:36,708 --> 00:29:40,416 I was expecting softcore photo stuff. 717 00:29:40,417 --> 00:29:43,041 Not full-on pornography. 718 00:29:43,042 --> 00:29:46,374 This is when you're like, "Why did I take this job?" 719 00:29:46,375 --> 00:29:49,624 ♪ 720 00:29:49,625 --> 00:29:51,666 That first scene of me cracking the whip 721 00:29:51,667 --> 00:29:53,832 that opens every episode, that was something 722 00:29:53,833 --> 00:29:56,666 I did not want to do, because I felt that 723 00:29:56,667 --> 00:29:58,291 men were already intimidated by me, 724 00:29:58,292 --> 00:30:00,541 that I was too strong of a personality. 725 00:30:00,542 --> 00:30:02,624 That was the last thing I wanted to do. 726 00:30:02,625 --> 00:30:04,667 And it opened every episode. 727 00:30:04,792 --> 00:30:06,874 ♪ 728 00:30:06,875 --> 00:30:09,083 [Shelly] When the girls and I were 729 00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:10,916 touching each other in the parlor 730 00:30:10,917 --> 00:30:14,916 or making out, those were Dennis' ideas. 731 00:30:14,917 --> 00:30:17,666 Dennis wanted to make it look like we were all just 732 00:30:17,667 --> 00:30:20,374 waiting to have sex and we were nymphos. 733 00:30:20,375 --> 00:30:23,874 So, Dennis somewhat became the director because 734 00:30:23,875 --> 00:30:26,666 he was coordinating what he wanted to see 735 00:30:26,667 --> 00:30:28,499 in the scenes. 736 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:29,916 And... 737 00:30:29,917 --> 00:30:32,832 I didn't always see Patti Kaplan around. 738 00:30:32,833 --> 00:30:35,874 [laughing & chatter] 739 00:30:35,875 --> 00:30:37,999 It's kind of hard to say it was a documentary 740 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,292 when you have a pimp directing scenes 741 00:30:40,458 --> 00:30:42,666 in his own brothel. 742 00:30:42,667 --> 00:30:45,582 Watching the show, HBO definitely wanted it 743 00:30:45,583 --> 00:30:48,708 to look like a fun place to be, 744 00:30:48,833 --> 00:30:50,791 and so I can see where it would be 745 00:30:50,792 --> 00:30:53,833 tempting for a young girl to watch the Cathouse show 746 00:30:53,958 --> 00:30:56,333 and think it would be something fun, 747 00:30:56,458 --> 00:30:58,832 but they don't understand the reality of it. 748 00:30:58,833 --> 00:31:01,957 They aren't seeing what it really is like 749 00:31:01,958 --> 00:31:04,582 behind closed doors with Dennis. 750 00:31:04,583 --> 00:31:06,832 ♪ 751 00:31:06,833 --> 00:31:08,832 [Tom] In a brothel, you don't have 752 00:31:08,833 --> 00:31:11,791 HR lines to respect. 753 00:31:11,792 --> 00:31:15,291 So, every interaction with women was paternal. 754 00:31:15,292 --> 00:31:19,499 It placed him in a superior position to her. 755 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,624 He was her boss and her "Daddy." 756 00:31:22,625 --> 00:31:23,999 - Daddy. - Daddy... 757 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,874 - Come and play with us! - Alright, girls! Let's go. 758 00:31:26,875 --> 00:31:28,624 - Daddy! - Daddy! 759 00:31:28,625 --> 00:31:29,917 Daddy! 760 00:31:30,208 --> 00:31:32,457 [Shelly] It made me uncomfortable to call him Daddy. 761 00:31:32,458 --> 00:31:35,707 And it was weird to see the other girls call him Daddy. 762 00:31:35,708 --> 00:31:36,916 You're the coolest Daddy I've ever had! 763 00:31:36,917 --> 00:31:38,624 [laughing] 764 00:31:38,625 --> 00:31:40,332 [Host] Why do your girls 765 00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:41,749 have to call you Daddy, for example? 766 00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:42,916 [Dennis] They don't have to call me Daddy. 767 00:31:42,917 --> 00:31:44,125 My girlfriend calls me that. 768 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:45,999 [Host] What, it's just a weird coincidence that they all do? 769 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,000 [Dennis] My girlfriend does that. 770 00:31:47,333 --> 00:31:48,707 [Host] Well, the thing is, you do treat women 771 00:31:48,708 --> 00:31:49,833 like objects to an extent. 772 00:31:50,125 --> 00:31:51,582 [Dennis] Not true. [Host] They're commodities. 773 00:31:51,583 --> 00:31:52,832 [Dennis] The demand is there. 774 00:31:52,833 --> 00:31:54,707 They want to fulfill the demand. 775 00:31:54,708 --> 00:31:56,832 [Phillip] Dennis always used to say that 776 00:31:56,833 --> 00:31:59,457 just like anybody selling a product, 777 00:31:59,458 --> 00:32:01,333 he has to know... 778 00:32:01,542 --> 00:32:03,332 the value of the product. 779 00:32:03,333 --> 00:32:05,666 But I don't recall Patti ever asking 780 00:32:05,667 --> 00:32:08,041 any of the women who worked at 781 00:32:08,042 --> 00:32:10,666 the Moonlite Bunny Ranch how they felt about 782 00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:13,041 sleeping with Dennis, their boss. 783 00:32:13,042 --> 00:32:15,957 [Shelly] I thought it was absolutely revolting 784 00:32:15,958 --> 00:32:18,874 that I was expected to sleep with the boss, 785 00:32:18,875 --> 00:32:21,041 and that the boss could go around and just 786 00:32:21,042 --> 00:32:24,957 sleep with anyone and it was considered normal. 787 00:32:24,958 --> 00:32:28,791 But I was afraid to tell him no. 788 00:32:28,792 --> 00:32:30,500 I was scared. 789 00:32:34,750 --> 00:32:36,041 [rumbling thunder] 790 00:32:36,042 --> 00:32:38,874 Dennis would promote you if you slept with him. 791 00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:41,082 He would brag about you. 792 00:32:41,083 --> 00:32:44,082 ♪ 793 00:32:44,083 --> 00:32:46,500 Dennis had a very active sex life 794 00:32:46,667 --> 00:32:48,332 with the working girls. 795 00:32:48,333 --> 00:32:50,417 And, a lot of the working girls 796 00:32:50,542 --> 00:32:52,832 would offer themselves up to him. 797 00:32:52,833 --> 00:32:54,374 There were girls that slept with him that 798 00:32:54,375 --> 00:32:58,207 didn't want to sleep with him, but thatt they had to. 799 00:32:58,208 --> 00:33:00,624 [Shelly] Dennis preyed upon the women 800 00:33:00,625 --> 00:33:04,750 that were most easily victimised. 801 00:33:04,875 --> 00:33:06,874 I was afraid to not 802 00:33:06,875 --> 00:33:08,999 go along with what he wanted. 803 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,957 I learned a long time ago to not fight back... 804 00:33:12,958 --> 00:33:14,916 because I, myself, 805 00:33:14,917 --> 00:33:17,791 was sexually abused as a child. 806 00:33:17,792 --> 00:33:19,875 So, I learned to... 807 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,417 build a wall and not think about it. 808 00:33:22,542 --> 00:33:26,291 I literally visualised putting brick by brick up. 809 00:33:26,292 --> 00:33:28,249 I remember doing that when I was around 810 00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:31,707 12, 13 years old. It shaped me. 811 00:33:31,708 --> 00:33:34,874 I probably would have never thought about working 812 00:33:34,875 --> 00:33:38,166 at the Bunny Ranch if I hadn't had an old man 813 00:33:38,167 --> 00:33:42,207 touching me when I was a little bitty kid. 814 00:33:42,208 --> 00:33:45,458 And so, whenever I was in a situation 815 00:33:45,583 --> 00:33:50,000 where I was having sex and didn't want to, 816 00:33:50,125 --> 00:33:52,041 I was doing it for money, 817 00:33:52,042 --> 00:33:56,208 I was able to disassociate from the situation and 818 00:33:56,333 --> 00:34:01,082 build that wall up and pretend that I... 819 00:34:01,083 --> 00:34:04,791 I wasn't doing that. 820 00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:06,708 So, that's what I did with Dennis. 821 00:34:06,833 --> 00:34:09,624 I didn't know what else to do. 822 00:34:09,625 --> 00:34:12,667 [Shonda] He had a great presence on TV, 823 00:34:12,792 --> 00:34:14,166 but behind closed doors, 824 00:34:14,167 --> 00:34:17,207 Dennis was a rattlesnake. 825 00:34:17,208 --> 00:34:19,166 [Tom] After a while, having shot there 826 00:34:19,167 --> 00:34:21,957 for one ten-day period and then 827 00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:24,166 coming back again, I realised that 828 00:34:24,167 --> 00:34:26,166 I was becoming more and more 829 00:34:26,167 --> 00:34:28,916 repulsed by Dennis Hof. 830 00:34:28,917 --> 00:34:30,541 [Robin] Dennis found it very easy 831 00:34:30,542 --> 00:34:32,999 to treat every woman he came across 832 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,417 in that same demeaning and sexualised way. 833 00:34:36,625 --> 00:34:39,707 [Tom] I began to see below the surface, 834 00:34:39,708 --> 00:34:42,500 into the other layers of what was going on there. 835 00:34:42,708 --> 00:34:44,874 The darker side. 836 00:34:44,875 --> 00:34:46,500 But as a documentarian, 837 00:34:46,667 --> 00:34:48,291 if somebody is in front of my camera, 838 00:34:48,292 --> 00:34:50,374 my job is to find the human being in the person 839 00:34:50,375 --> 00:34:53,666 even though I may detest what that person does. 840 00:34:53,667 --> 00:34:55,957 He felt like he was improving a girl's career. 841 00:34:55,958 --> 00:34:57,832 And he actually used that as a come on. 842 00:34:57,833 --> 00:34:59,082 You know, "You need to sleep with me 843 00:34:59,083 --> 00:35:00,957 because it'll help your career." 844 00:35:00,958 --> 00:35:03,708 [Shelly] And you got privileges. 845 00:35:03,833 --> 00:35:05,832 He would take you out to dinner. 846 00:35:05,833 --> 00:35:08,291 He took me to the Billboard Awards. 847 00:35:08,292 --> 00:35:11,083 [Sonja] He gave 'em everything he could possibly give 'em. 848 00:35:11,208 --> 00:35:14,332 And the other girls were envious of that. 849 00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:16,207 Whoever was his girlfriend at the time, 850 00:35:16,208 --> 00:35:17,999 she'd be the one going on the junket 851 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,332 and hitting all the shows. 852 00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:23,082 So, for all the advertising that I did get, 853 00:35:23,083 --> 00:35:24,999 it wasn't handed to me. 854 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,667 Not by any means. 855 00:35:26,792 --> 00:35:29,999 I worked, worked, worked, worked, worked, and... 856 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,291 tried to make the most money to get this spot, 857 00:35:32,292 --> 00:35:34,207 this thing, this thing, this thing. 858 00:35:34,208 --> 00:35:37,292 But then his girlfriend would get the same thing. 859 00:35:40,792 --> 00:35:42,917 Did Dennis and I ever date? No... 860 00:35:43,042 --> 00:35:45,332 No. 861 00:35:45,333 --> 00:35:47,207 [Shelly] It was kind of a sick, twisted relationship 862 00:35:47,208 --> 00:35:50,041 that I had with Dennis 863 00:35:50,042 --> 00:35:51,332 because I wanted him to like me, 864 00:35:51,333 --> 00:35:54,207 but I did not want to have sex with him. 865 00:35:54,208 --> 00:35:56,832 [Robin] I don't think that he had any idea 866 00:35:56,833 --> 00:35:58,457 what these women go through, 867 00:35:58,458 --> 00:36:01,875 or how or why they ended up working for him. 868 00:36:02,042 --> 00:36:04,250 ♪ 869 00:36:04,375 --> 00:36:06,166 [Shelly] Some days I feel a little bit shaky, and I think, 870 00:36:06,167 --> 00:36:07,916 "Oh my gosh, what if he picks me?" 871 00:36:07,917 --> 00:36:09,000 And since I've been here, 872 00:36:09,208 --> 00:36:11,291 I found that just having a couple of drinks... 873 00:36:11,292 --> 00:36:16,249 relaxes me and lets me... 874 00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:19,750 not be quite as, uh, shaky. 875 00:36:19,875 --> 00:36:24,249 ♪ 876 00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:26,999 I didn't have the power in the first few years 877 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,916 to say no to Dennis. 878 00:36:28,917 --> 00:36:31,166 ♪ 879 00:36:31,167 --> 00:36:34,250 I tried my best to avoid him. 880 00:36:34,375 --> 00:36:36,750 I would try to be busy. 881 00:36:36,875 --> 00:36:40,041 I was glad when I was booked and I was making money 882 00:36:40,042 --> 00:36:41,583 rather than being available for him, 883 00:36:41,708 --> 00:36:43,042 and then he would just grab another girl 884 00:36:43,167 --> 00:36:44,832 and go out back. 885 00:36:44,833 --> 00:36:47,166 ♪ 886 00:36:47,167 --> 00:36:51,291 He liked that power, that he had that control. 887 00:36:51,292 --> 00:36:54,082 And Dennis was very violent 888 00:36:54,083 --> 00:36:57,957 when he had sex, liking to slap and choke. 889 00:36:57,958 --> 00:37:00,124 It was hard to get him to stop. 890 00:37:00,125 --> 00:37:01,917 [thudding impact] 891 00:37:02,042 --> 00:37:04,874 ♪ 892 00:37:04,875 --> 00:37:09,082 Once I finally quit going along with what he wanted, 893 00:37:09,083 --> 00:37:11,916 I was no longer in his good graces. 894 00:37:11,917 --> 00:37:13,916 He was no longer 895 00:37:13,917 --> 00:37:16,332 referring me to the big clients, 896 00:37:16,333 --> 00:37:18,916 and he started to talk bad about me. 897 00:37:18,917 --> 00:37:21,207 He said I had an alcohol problem. 898 00:37:21,208 --> 00:37:26,207 He would turn against girls that said no to him. 899 00:37:26,208 --> 00:37:29,583 And after a few years, I decided it was time 900 00:37:29,708 --> 00:37:31,917 to leave the Moonlite Bunny Ranch. 901 00:37:32,042 --> 00:37:34,208 ♪ 902 00:37:40,042 --> 00:37:41,917 I really had no idea of the reach of 903 00:37:42,042 --> 00:37:44,250 the Cathouse series on HBO. 904 00:37:44,375 --> 00:37:46,083 I mean, it did really well. 905 00:37:46,208 --> 00:37:48,166 And people were being drawn in 906 00:37:48,167 --> 00:37:50,082 by the show, itself. 907 00:37:50,083 --> 00:37:52,374 [Dennis] Chrissie is the reason why you use 908 00:37:52,375 --> 00:37:54,874 parental controls on your TV because at 15, 909 00:37:54,875 --> 00:37:58,292 she was watching Cathouse, and here we are. 910 00:37:58,417 --> 00:38:02,124 If I could talk to my 11-year-old me 911 00:38:02,125 --> 00:38:04,332 watching Cathouse, 912 00:38:04,333 --> 00:38:07,332 I would definitely tell little me that... 913 00:38:07,333 --> 00:38:09,874 not everything you see on TV is a reality. 914 00:38:09,875 --> 00:38:12,875 [Robin] The idea that an 11 or 12-year-old would decide, 915 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,291 "Oh, that looks like fun," 916 00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:15,750 that's... [sighing] 917 00:38:15,875 --> 00:38:18,749 ...disturbing that young girls would do that. 918 00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:21,374 But I also think that that is the way society works, 919 00:38:21,375 --> 00:38:22,999 is we emulate something and we see something, 920 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,124 and then we end up doing it. 921 00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:26,124 [Host] How did you find each other? 922 00:38:26,125 --> 00:38:27,417 HBO. 923 00:38:27,667 --> 00:38:31,458 The first HBO special that aired, I watched it. 924 00:38:31,583 --> 00:38:34,082 [Tom] The illusion was always there. 925 00:38:34,083 --> 00:38:36,207 Dennis kept the place 926 00:38:36,208 --> 00:38:38,750 on a cheerful, glitzy, happy level. 927 00:38:38,875 --> 00:38:40,249 [Dennis] This is our family. We are a family. 928 00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:41,957 This is the best family a person could have. 929 00:38:41,958 --> 00:38:43,416 I love you all. 930 00:38:43,417 --> 00:38:46,332 [Tom] So the darker side was kept very private 931 00:38:46,333 --> 00:38:48,582 and very much away from the cameras. 932 00:38:48,583 --> 00:38:50,541 [cheering] 933 00:38:50,542 --> 00:38:52,374 [Tom] And that became an image 934 00:38:52,375 --> 00:38:55,374 that was then bought and sold on television. 935 00:38:55,375 --> 00:38:57,250 [Racquel] When I watched Cathouse, 936 00:38:57,375 --> 00:39:00,291 I wanted to believe that there could be 937 00:39:00,292 --> 00:39:03,291 such a thing as a happy, 938 00:39:03,292 --> 00:39:05,249 well-adjusted sex worker. 939 00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:08,000 And, rewatching it, 940 00:39:08,125 --> 00:39:10,207 it's so clear that's not the case. 941 00:39:10,208 --> 00:39:12,332 But at the time, I was willing to buy 942 00:39:12,333 --> 00:39:16,833 whatever narrative HBO was selling. 943 00:39:17,042 --> 00:39:18,832 If someone had told me 944 00:39:18,833 --> 00:39:21,332 that what you're going to do is basically 945 00:39:21,333 --> 00:39:25,082 create a narrative television production 946 00:39:25,083 --> 00:39:27,874 in the style of a documentary 947 00:39:27,875 --> 00:39:32,166 and try to sell people on its reality, 948 00:39:32,167 --> 00:39:33,457 even though we're making it 949 00:39:33,458 --> 00:39:35,416 as glamorous as possible, 950 00:39:35,417 --> 00:39:38,041 I would've said no. 951 00:39:38,042 --> 00:39:41,667 [Tom] It is important that I feel my responsibility. 952 00:39:41,875 --> 00:39:44,457 That if I denied my responsibility, 953 00:39:44,458 --> 00:39:46,332 it would still be there, 954 00:39:46,333 --> 00:39:48,291 but I would be lying about it. 955 00:39:48,292 --> 00:39:50,750 So, the fact that I feel guilty about is... 956 00:39:51,042 --> 00:39:52,042 is there. I, I- 957 00:39:52,208 --> 00:39:54,249 there's nothing I can do about that. 958 00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:57,499 When HBO first aired the series, 959 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:00,499 I really felt used 960 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,041 because I knew Dennis was 961 00:40:03,042 --> 00:40:06,166 making money off of it, and I didn't realise 962 00:40:06,167 --> 00:40:08,667 it would be so focused on just sex. 963 00:40:08,875 --> 00:40:10,541 I knew we worked in a brothel, 964 00:40:10,542 --> 00:40:12,375 but I was hoping it would have more of the 965 00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:15,166 relationships of the girls and 966 00:40:15,167 --> 00:40:18,000 how our lives were. 967 00:40:18,125 --> 00:40:20,416 So, I did feel bothered by 968 00:40:20,417 --> 00:40:23,291 the fact that Dennis and the HBO show 969 00:40:23,292 --> 00:40:26,457 used women as property to make money. 970 00:40:26,458 --> 00:40:28,374 [Promo] Tune into the Bunny Ranch... 971 00:40:28,375 --> 00:40:30,291 [Dennis] Cathouse on HB-hoe! 972 00:40:30,292 --> 00:40:44,917 ♪ 973 00:40:45,042 --> 00:40:48,582 ♪ 974 00:40:48,583 --> 00:40:50,041 [Tom] The Cathouse series, 975 00:40:50,042 --> 00:40:53,457 over the next season or two began to attract 976 00:40:53,458 --> 00:40:57,000 younger women to the Bunny Ranch. 977 00:40:57,125 --> 00:40:58,249 [Dolly] Around the time that I 978 00:40:58,250 --> 00:40:59,833 caught a glimpse of Cathouse, 979 00:41:00,042 --> 00:41:02,541 I'd say I was probably, like, 11, 12. 980 00:41:02,542 --> 00:41:06,917 I think I was probably, maybe 11 or 12 maybe. 981 00:41:07,042 --> 00:41:09,499 And I would watch with the volume turned down low. 982 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:13,249 And I was like, if it's that easy, then, you know... 983 00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:15,499 I really want to think I want to try it. 984 00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:17,542 [DeAnne] He loved young girls. 985 00:41:17,667 --> 00:41:20,083 These girls did not see what was coming. 986 00:41:20,208 --> 00:41:22,499 HBO was glamorizing this life. 987 00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:24,832 Who's pimping who here? 988 00:41:24,833 --> 00:41:28,250 [Dolly] It isn't this big sorority. 989 00:41:28,375 --> 00:41:29,583 I didn't feel safe. 990 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,541 I've never, ever seen anything like this before. 991 00:41:37,542 --> 00:41:39,416 [Jennifer] There are people that have died. 992 00:41:39,417 --> 00:41:41,957 [DeAnne] She's dead. She's been dead for hours. 993 00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:44,332 [Jennifer] There are people that have been murdered. 994 00:41:44,333 --> 00:41:46,000 [News] 4 people found dead. 995 00:41:46,167 --> 00:41:47,792 One of them was a prostitute 996 00:41:47,958 --> 00:41:50,332 and one of the stars of HBO's Cathouse. 997 00:41:50,333 --> 00:41:51,624 [Sonja] Dennis told me 998 00:41:51,625 --> 00:41:53,666 that she was pregnant with his child. 999 00:41:53,667 --> 00:41:57,207 It just blew up like an atomic bomb. 1000 00:41:57,208 --> 00:41:59,250 I'm going to tell you the real story 1001 00:41:59,375 --> 00:42:01,624 about the Lamar Odom party. 1002 00:42:01,625 --> 00:42:03,457 He should've known that stuff is not good, 1003 00:42:03,458 --> 00:42:05,166 but he wanted more. 1004 00:42:05,167 --> 00:42:06,624 I was like, "Lamar!" 1005 00:42:06,625 --> 00:42:09,499 And I tried to shake him and he didn't do anything. 1006 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:12,457 Lamar Odom overdosed, 1007 00:42:12,458 --> 00:42:15,417 and I didn't know what to do. 1008 00:42:15,542 --> 00:42:17,624 [Jennifer] Prostitution, it's not a job. 1009 00:42:17,625 --> 00:42:19,332 It is a nightmare. 1010 00:42:19,333 --> 00:42:21,333 [Rebekah] I was literally having sex 1011 00:42:21,458 --> 00:42:23,999 with strangers, for nothing. 1012 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,457 [Jennifer] I was molested, and beaten, 1013 00:42:25,458 --> 00:42:28,083 and raped by Dennis Hof. 1014 00:42:28,208 --> 00:42:31,082 And some girls are still there. 1015 00:42:31,083 --> 00:42:32,541 ♪ 1016 00:42:32,542 --> 00:42:35,457 Dennis was in this for Dennis. 1017 00:42:35,458 --> 00:42:37,499 Dennis was a rat bastard pimp. 1018 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:39,041 [DeAnne] He had no empathy. 1019 00:42:39,042 --> 00:42:41,041 [Dolly] He could be a real piece of [beep]. 1020 00:42:41,042 --> 00:42:43,875 Yeah, I believe there was foul play. 100%. 1021 00:42:44,083 --> 00:42:46,124 Police! Search warrant! 1022 00:42:46,125 --> 00:42:48,457 [Sonja] Dennis Hof was running for office. 1023 00:42:48,458 --> 00:42:51,166 It was a powerplay. 1024 00:42:51,167 --> 00:42:52,582 [Jennifer] I honestly feel 1025 00:42:52,583 --> 00:42:55,166 that Dennis Hof was murdered. 1026 00:42:55,167 --> 00:42:57,083 But I got no justice. 76009

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