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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:11,159 --> 00:00:12,480 This is border country - 4 00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:15,320 the dividing line between the British province of Northern Ireland 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,719 and the Irish Republic. The border meanders for nearly 300 miles. 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,119 It was created in 1922 when Ireland became a free state and Ulster 7 00:00:23,159 --> 00:00:24,440 remained British. 8 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:35,679 This is the border - cause of some 2,000 deaths on this island 9 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:37,159 over the last ten years. 10 00:00:37,199 --> 00:00:39,960 It's virtually impossible to seal up this border. 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,400 Is the border the source of the trouble, 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,320 or is it merely a symptom? 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,480 There's a lot of money made off the border. 14 00:00:50,519 --> 00:00:55,119 All kinds of smuggling, be it cattle, cigarettes, alcohol. 15 00:00:55,159 --> 00:00:58,280 Your job is to protect the border. 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,880 Hello, is that the IRA Publicity Bureau, please? 17 00:01:08,639 --> 00:01:11,760 I grew up hating the people in the uniforms. 18 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,199 I grew up hating the police. I grew up hating the British Army. 19 00:01:15,239 --> 00:01:17,239 And I ended up joining the IRA. 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,639 The border has a huge impact on my life. 21 00:01:19,679 --> 00:01:23,800 Everything I do now is affected by that one moment in time. 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:24,840 LOUD BANG 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,599 The existence of the border has caused dispute and bloodshed, 24 00:01:32,639 --> 00:01:36,920 but nevertheless it constitutes an international frontier. 25 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:40,760 Would its removal unite the hearts and minds of the people 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,159 of this island? 27 00:01:42,199 --> 00:01:44,559 Or do the divisions run too deep? 28 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,960 Do I like the border?! 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,480 Course I don't like the border. 30 00:01:50,519 --> 00:01:53,119 The border should never have existed on this island. 31 00:01:53,159 --> 00:01:55,960 I get fed up that people keep talking about the "Irish border." 32 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,559 It's a British border. 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,039 Partitioned by a treaty signed in 1922. 34 00:02:08,079 --> 00:02:09,840 Six counties allied to the north. 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,960 26 counties of the Republic to the south. 36 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,599 Between the two is the border, manned on either side by customs 37 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,519 guards as if the people and the land were different. 38 00:02:25,519 --> 00:02:27,360 ALARM RINGS 39 00:02:36,679 --> 00:02:38,440 My name is Paddy Gillespie. 40 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,880 I like to be called Paddy, because I really am a paddy. 41 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:44,840 And I'm older than the Irish border. 42 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:51,639 I'm 102, so I know quite a bit about the activities 43 00:02:51,679 --> 00:02:54,199 and what went on across the border. 44 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,880 It was all about a division on our wee island of Ireland. 45 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,480 There were 32 counties, and there were six of them taken away. 46 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:14,199 And that was run by the British Government and left Ireland with 26 47 00:03:14,239 --> 00:03:18,599 counties which so far, up to date, we're doing all right. 48 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,440 Our money's all right and we're living fairly peacefully. 49 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,480 HE LAUGHS 50 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,920 My family have been resident here in the border area for well 51 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,760 over 200 years. 52 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,400 They came here as soldiers, 53 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,559 towards the end of the 17th century during the reigns of Elizabeth 54 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:47,760 and also of Charles I. 55 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Just perfect, just perfect. 56 00:03:52,039 --> 00:03:56,960 England was driven by a very serious concern for security. 57 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,760 They wanted to prevent either the Spaniards or, later, the French 58 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,840 from using Ireland as a beachhead and potentially launching a direct 59 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,199 invasion of England. 60 00:04:08,239 --> 00:04:12,039 And therefore there was a considerable effort on behalf 61 00:04:12,079 --> 00:04:17,360 of successive British governments to settle Protestants on the island 62 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,840 of Ireland, where the vast mass were Catholic. 63 00:04:23,239 --> 00:04:29,199 I think any border that is imposed upon a country from outside 64 00:04:29,239 --> 00:04:35,000 is going to create scars, both on the land 65 00:04:35,039 --> 00:04:37,719 and also in people's minds. 66 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,039 There is absolutely no question, the imposition of a border 67 00:04:43,079 --> 00:04:46,360 has been a disaster for the island of Ireland. 68 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:58,840 England seem to dominate lots of places across the world, 69 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,320 and build barriers and invade different countries. 70 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,800 But, I'll tell you, I would have preferred they had have 71 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,880 stayed out of our wee island. 72 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,079 When I was 17, 73 00:05:11,119 --> 00:05:14,360 when you wanted to go over the border you were issued 74 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,760 with a book, which entailed you had to go in 75 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,559 and have this book stamped. 76 00:05:19,599 --> 00:05:24,079 And if you stayed over the border, even if you were only in for an hour, 77 00:05:24,119 --> 00:05:27,320 you had to have it stamped coming out again. 78 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,880 You're trying to get into your own country, and across 79 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,840 your own river. 80 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,440 No-one likes this frontier, like a scar 81 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,960 on a beautiful woman's face. 82 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,400 And it made you feel, 83 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,159 "Am I wanted here? Am I a part of this country? Am I part of Ireland?" 84 00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:47,519 Travellers are stopped by Irish Guards as they leave the Republic, 85 00:05:47,559 --> 00:05:51,599 by Her Majesty's men a few yards farther on as they enter Ulster. 86 00:05:51,639 --> 00:05:54,360 To the tourist, it is an inconvenience. 87 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,400 To the patriot, an open wound. 88 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,320 And to a segment of the Irish youth, a call to violent action. 89 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:07,000 This is a smuggler. 90 00:06:07,039 --> 00:06:10,239 She's on a return trip from Britain into Ireland with quantities 91 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:15,599 of butter, bread and tinned food, all of which are cheaper in Ulster. 92 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:18,760 Smuggling is an old tradition around here, and they start them 93 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,800 kind of young. 94 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,360 Once a year, 95 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,440 my mother would take us on the train up from Dublin, up to Belfast, to 96 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,960 buy clothes, cos clothes were much cheaper in the north 97 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,880 than they were in the south. 98 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:37,000 And I just remember vividly the change in your body as you came back 99 00:06:37,039 --> 00:06:39,519 across the border, because you have five layers of clothes 100 00:06:39,559 --> 00:06:43,480 on, supposedly to fool the customs officials, you know, that you were 101 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:46,599 you were smuggling these clothes, basically, by wearing them. 102 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:48,920 So, you went up as a skinny little kid, and you came back 103 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,840 as a kind of Michelin Man, you know! 104 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,639 I smuggled my wedding dress. 105 00:06:52,679 --> 00:06:54,320 And I'm sure you smuggled yours. 106 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:55,719 Smuggled my wedding dress. 107 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:01,280 I smuggled the curtains for the dining room on this. 108 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,920 I'll tell you, I used to be sitting maybe seven or eight cars 109 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,679 in front of you, coming to the customs, you know, 110 00:07:06,719 --> 00:07:09,679 and the custom man coming out, and checking all them cars, 111 00:07:09,719 --> 00:07:11,000 and you sitting sweating. 112 00:07:11,039 --> 00:07:14,440 And by chance, he sort of waved you on. 113 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,760 "Oh, my God." I know, you felt so relieved. 114 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Oh, relieved, surely to God. 115 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,360 You went and you smuggled the flour, and the bread, 116 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,079 and butter, and the tea, 117 00:07:26,119 --> 00:07:28,519 and cigarettes... Yeah. 118 00:07:28,559 --> 00:07:30,559 ..was things that were smuggled. 119 00:07:30,599 --> 00:07:34,960 In John Britton's pub which quenches thirst for 13 hours a day, 120 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,039 cigarettes are up to a shilling cheaper. 121 00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:40,840 So, addicts flock in from across the border to buy over 200,000 122 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,519 cigarettes a week. 123 00:07:42,559 --> 00:07:47,199 I remember smuggling cows, cattle across the river. 124 00:07:47,239 --> 00:07:50,840 Many a farmer took to smuggling cattle across the border to markets 125 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,000 in Northern Ireland. 126 00:07:52,039 --> 00:07:56,920 Four of us were asked to help seven or eight head of cattle across the river. 127 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,800 Now, we had a great bit of bother 128 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,039 getting them into the river. 129 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:03,199 And we all followed with sticks 130 00:08:03,239 --> 00:08:07,920 and battered them across the river and I had, I wasn't a great swimmer, 131 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,159 so as soon as I went in to chest deep, 132 00:08:10,199 --> 00:08:13,520 I had to hold on to a cow's tail. 133 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,079 And, believe it or not, if somebody had have told me that cows could swim, 134 00:08:18,119 --> 00:08:19,600 I would have laughed at them. 135 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,239 But that cow took me across, no problem at all. 136 00:08:23,279 --> 00:08:24,439 I wasn't very heavy! 137 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,000 You used to get some money from the state, so you'd get 138 00:08:28,039 --> 00:08:31,159 a kind of a headage payment for every pig you exported. 139 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:35,159 It was a little inducement for exporters, and... 140 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:37,960 ..there's anecdotal... 141 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,479 ..evidence that people used to smuggle pigs across the border, 142 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,359 so they would export a lorry-load of pigs, get the cheque, 143 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:50,000 and then they would drive those pigs back across the border, 144 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:52,560 then a few days later export the same pigs. 145 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,920 Customs officials wouldn't recognise them as the pigs 146 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,880 that crossed the border two or three days ago, 147 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,680 so you would be paid twice for the same lorry-load of pigs. 148 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,920 I think there's a tendency to look at the border and smuggling 149 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,239 for comic relief of something that was actually quite distressful. 150 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:14,720 Smuggling wasn't a hobby. It wasn't, it wasn't a comic event. 151 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,840 It was economic necessity for a lot of people. 152 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,479 Strabane has the highest proportion of people out of work in the whole 153 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:22,960 of the United Kingdom. 154 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,000 At least one in three men here is unemployed, 155 00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:28,479 and unless he has brilliant exam results, 156 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,079 a boy who is now in his last year at school 157 00:09:31,119 --> 00:09:33,960 has probably less chance of finding a job 158 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,119 than anywhere else in Europe. 159 00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:38,560 The border definitely affected Strabane. 160 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,279 There's no question about it. 161 00:09:40,319 --> 00:09:43,399 There was no work in Strabane. There were no jobs in Strabane. 162 00:09:43,439 --> 00:09:45,840 There was no industry in Strabane. 163 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,600 My wife didn't like this idea of smuggling at all. 164 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,880 She didn't like it. 165 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,640 Although she had to admit that the money was useful. 166 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:53,680 HE LAUGHS 167 00:09:58,079 --> 00:10:01,600 The border goes down roads, it goes through houses, it goes 168 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,960 through streams, it crosses fields. 169 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,079 The border is like a child took a pen to the map of Ireland, just 170 00:10:10,119 --> 00:10:12,800 did a squiggly line across the top of it. 171 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,720 If I get caught speeding on this side, I'll get fined in euros. 172 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,319 And if I get caught speeding on the side I'll get fined in pounds. 173 00:10:19,359 --> 00:10:22,199 Unless I get run over on the border. 174 00:10:22,239 --> 00:10:24,760 So, I don't know which ambulance'll come to get us. 175 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,039 SHE LAUGHS 176 00:10:28,079 --> 00:10:31,680 Mr McRae, a shopkeeper, undertaker and a Protestant, 177 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,079 buries the British. 178 00:10:33,119 --> 00:10:34,560 When a Catholic dies, 179 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,039 he drives Pettigo's one and only hearse to the border, 180 00:10:38,079 --> 00:10:41,039 where John Britton, who's Irish in spite of his name, collects 181 00:10:41,079 --> 00:10:44,239 the hearse and goes off to bury his fellow Catholics. 182 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:46,079 So, where are you for today? 183 00:10:46,119 --> 00:10:49,920 Ballyshannon. Ballyshannon? Yeah. 184 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:50,960 Safe journey. 185 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,840 There's this idea that the Protestants have a really strong 186 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,640 work ethic, and that Catholics are inherently lazy. 187 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,920 Like, if I tidied my house, I would go round, and I do say it, 188 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,560 I know I say it, I say, "Now, that's a bit more Protestant looking," cos it means 189 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,640 it's nice and tidy and clean and organised. 190 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,399 What a weird thing to say. 191 00:11:15,439 --> 00:11:18,880 TRADITIONAL MUSIC 192 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:24,119 But the Catholics, I think, are considered to be a bit more craic, 193 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:27,159 a bit more laid back, you know? 194 00:11:27,199 --> 00:11:31,159 A bit more kind of drinking and dancing and singing, 195 00:11:31,199 --> 00:11:33,479 and the traditional music and all of that kind of thing. 196 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,680 Protestants would be seen to be quite uptight, a bit straight-laced. 197 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,239 As a Protestant child, I crossed the border to go to my church 198 00:11:42,279 --> 00:11:44,000 and when I crossed the border, 199 00:11:44,039 --> 00:11:46,720 I felt almost like people were staring at me. 200 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,840 I was a foreigner in a foreign land. 201 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:49,960 Even on the buses. 202 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,880 For example, Protestants sat one side, Catholics sat the other side, 203 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,039 you know, you lived it totally. 204 00:11:56,079 --> 00:11:58,640 Different community. You didn't mix in any way. 205 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,760 And that was a sad state of affairs, because my family 206 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,640 were all from Southern Ireland originally. 207 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:07,640 And we felt like we were foreigners in our own land. 208 00:12:10,319 --> 00:12:12,479 INDISTINCT CHANTING 209 00:12:14,239 --> 00:12:17,920 As a kid crossing the border, you did feel that you were into 210 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,920 a different kind of terrain. 211 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,840 We had a very ignorant view of the North. 212 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680 We thought of the North as Protestant, exclusively, you know! 213 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,920 We were actually very unaware, oddly enough, of people like us. 214 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,159 You know, the Irish Catholics being north of the border. 215 00:12:45,479 --> 00:12:49,960 I knew the importance of being a Catholic in the North. 216 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,800 The first time I met a Protestant, I was working part-time in Dunnes Stores, 217 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,479 and this girl came in on work experience, and we were told 218 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,479 that this girl's a Protestant. 219 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,279 But what I believed at that time about Protestant people 220 00:13:02,319 --> 00:13:04,079 was, one, they all hated us. 221 00:13:04,119 --> 00:13:07,279 I had asked my father why they all hate us so much, and he told me 222 00:13:07,319 --> 00:13:10,000 was that they believed that our Pope was the Antichrist, 223 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:12,159 so they thought we were all Antichrist. 224 00:13:12,199 --> 00:13:14,800 And I remember thinking, "God if I thought somebody was an 225 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,119 "Antichrist, I wouldn't like them either." 226 00:13:17,159 --> 00:13:19,720 So, this young girl is coming in on work experience, 227 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,479 and I'm expecting somebody who's snobby, polite, expensive, 228 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,399 and in comes this wee hard ticket, covered in tattoos with piercings all over, 229 00:13:29,439 --> 00:13:32,640 and I'm thinking, "Are you sure this one's a Protestant?" 230 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:34,359 When the working day's over, 231 00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:38,119 both sides go back to their own separate communities. 232 00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:42,600 For most people in the city, the only time they meet across the divide is at work. 233 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,439 They live separately, worship separately, drink separately. 234 00:13:46,479 --> 00:13:47,880 The schools are separate. 235 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,239 As a child, you don't really know about this. 236 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:53,000 But as you get older, you realise well, there's a Protestant school 237 00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:56,039 and a Catholic school, there's a Protestant church and a Catholic church. 238 00:13:56,079 --> 00:13:57,600 There are Protestant shops. 239 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,560 You know, there was two newsagents in the town. 240 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,760 There was the Protestant newsagent and the Catholic newsagent, you know, 241 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,039 and the Protestant supermarket and the Catholic supermarket, 242 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:09,199 and the Protestant hardware shop and the Catholic hardware shop. 243 00:14:09,239 --> 00:14:12,039 So, you became aware of that over time and, you know, I suppose 244 00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:14,439 there would have been a tiny bit of prejudice, but not much. 245 00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:16,279 I mean, there was no real trouble in my town. 246 00:14:16,319 --> 00:14:18,600 There was a little bit of name calling, that was about it. 247 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,119 You know, I think we called them Proddie goats and they called us kitty cats! 248 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,600 This is Fintona, County Tyrone, one of the six north-eastern counties 249 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,079 of Ireland which are held under British rule. 250 00:14:35,119 --> 00:14:37,800 Big families and little houses are normal in these 251 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,640 back streets of Fintona. 252 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,880 These two-room cottages in Brunswick Row have no running 253 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,640 water and no sanitation. 254 00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:48,239 Against a background of such great need, 255 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,800 how is it that council houses are built for people who either 256 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,359 do not need new houses or can well afford to rent them 257 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:54,840 in the ordinary way? 258 00:14:56,319 --> 00:14:58,640 The answer is a political one. 259 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,640 Two-thirds of the people of this little town are nationalists. 260 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,199 They are in favour of unity with the rest of Ireland 261 00:15:04,239 --> 00:15:08,039 and against being treated as part of Britain. 262 00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:11,439 One third is unionist, which means favouring British rule 263 00:15:11,479 --> 00:15:13,159 and the partition of Ireland. 264 00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:16,439 But the town is controlled by that Unionist minority 265 00:15:16,479 --> 00:15:18,720 and run solely in their interest. 266 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,039 I was brought up believing that we were second class citizens. 267 00:15:23,079 --> 00:15:26,239 The fact that we didn't own homes because if we owned homes 268 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:27,960 then we would have a vote. 269 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,159 It was a manipulated state. Housing was bad. 270 00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:33,079 The job situation was bad. 271 00:15:33,119 --> 00:15:36,319 Patrick Coyle has lived five years in a condemned house. 272 00:15:36,359 --> 00:15:38,640 We're living in there just like animals. 273 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,720 Four children - three girls, one boy - a wife and meself. 274 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,239 We're in one room, a four by three room, 275 00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:47,960 we have no toilet, nor we have no, eh, 276 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,920 adequate supply of water. 277 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,600 My granny, my mother's mother, 278 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:59,199 when she had her home, she had 14 children 279 00:15:59,239 --> 00:16:01,920 and they shared that house with another family. 280 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,960 Me daddy's family were nine children and they shared with another family 281 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,359 and he remembers curtains partitioning. 282 00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:13,880 Me daddy always relates to a story where a family eventually got 283 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,479 one of the new houses in the Creggan Estate, 284 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,680 and about a month after they moved in, the council came along 285 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,600 to see if everybody was fine. 286 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,800 But the whole family were living in the kitchen 287 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,119 and the father of the family says, 288 00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:29,560 "When is the next family moving in?" 289 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,800 Only to be told that this house was for them. They couldn't believe it, 290 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,479 cos there was four bedrooms and there was another sitting room. 291 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,479 So these are the stories that I grew up with. 292 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,600 These people are gathering to protest. 293 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,520 They're British, but with a difference. 294 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,479 Over a quarter of them cannot vote in local elections. 295 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,000 This is Londonderry, Protestant stronghold of the North, 296 00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:52,479 a city of religious rivalry, housing shortages, sweeping unemployment 297 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,920 and a mounting bitterness over civil rights. 298 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,560 # We shall overcome...# 299 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,479 {\an1}Those who campaign for civil rights in Londonderry feel they share 300 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,399 more than a song with civil rights movements elsewhere. 301 00:17:06,439 --> 00:17:11,119 They have even called themselves Britain's white Negros. 302 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,279 {\an1}I think it was pretty clear that Catholics were discriminated 303 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,239 against in Northern Ireland, purely in terms of jobs. 304 00:17:20,279 --> 00:17:23,159 The jobs in the manufacturing industries seemed to be pretty 305 00:17:23,199 --> 00:17:26,760 sewn up for Protestant people. Jobs in the civil service were scarce 306 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,640 for Catholics. The police force was almost exclusively Protestant. 307 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,199 In Northern Ireland only one policeman in line was Catholic. 308 00:17:35,239 --> 00:17:37,920 Unlike the police in the rest of the United Kingdom, 309 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,159 the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the RUC, was armed. 310 00:17:42,199 --> 00:17:45,520 But if the Minister of Home Affairs thought that the situation 311 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,000 demanded it, the police could be augmented by a voluntary 312 00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:53,119 part-time force, entirely Protestant, the B Specials. 313 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,399 In October 1968 a civil rights march in Londonderry, 314 00:18:00,439 --> 00:18:03,199 which had been banned, met a police barricade 315 00:18:03,239 --> 00:18:05,720 of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. 316 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,079 God save us all! Argh! 317 00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:18,359 The behaviour of the police, and especially of their auxiliaries, 318 00:18:18,399 --> 00:18:21,600 the B Specials, shocked the outside world. 319 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,760 Clear evidence that something was alarmingly wrong with the state of Ulster. 320 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,840 Here is the official north of Ireland view on partition. 321 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,319 40 years ago, 26 of the countries of Ireland 322 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,239 broke away from Great Britain and formed an independent state. 323 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:42,479 We in the north of Ireland, with a population of 1.5 million people, 324 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,319 decided by an overwhelming majority 325 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,960 at a great national general election, that we would remain 326 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,760 within the United Kingdom. 327 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,039 When the state was set up, you had, erm, 328 00:18:54,079 --> 00:18:58,640 I think roughly 36% of the state would have been classed as Nationalist. 329 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,960 And that's 36% did not support the formation of a government 330 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,880 in Belfast. They wanted to be part of an all Ireland government. 331 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,920 And if you have a third of the people not supporting the government 332 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,960 then it was always going to be in problems and there was always 333 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,079 going to be issues, and those issues festered for years and years and years. 334 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,039 In the early days of the new state, Protestant resolve 335 00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:24,039 was stiffened by the fact that the IRA made violent efforts 336 00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:27,520 to prevent the Northern Ireland government from functioning at all. 337 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,560 A long and bitter struggle to secure its authority 338 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,800 left an enduring mark on the character of the new regime. 339 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,600 In the hundred years of the Northern Ireland existence, 340 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,760 it has always been under attack from IRA. 341 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,760 There are always people getting killed, always threat of violence. 342 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,920 There's always a threat of people being shot and that has not stopped 343 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,800 since the 1920s. 344 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,239 The conflict rapidly worsened as the front line between Protestant 345 00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:57,359 and Catholic became a sectarian war zone. 346 00:19:59,399 --> 00:20:02,319 When the first British troops marched in, they were greeted 347 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,680 by Catholics as saviours, an army of liberation. 348 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,159 Is it all right if I give you this coffee? Hello. 349 00:20:09,199 --> 00:20:13,319 There you are, love. Thank you. That's for after your lunch or after your dinner. Thank you very much. 350 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,239 Appreciate it. Thank you. 351 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,239 In the Catholic ghettos especially, appearance belied reality. 352 00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:22,720 Though the soldiers were still a novelty, 353 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,880 the relationship had already become extremely fragile. 354 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,560 In the absence of reform, the people would begin to turn on the troops 355 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,439 and the erstwhile liberators would soon be regarded 356 00:20:36,479 --> 00:20:38,640 as an army of occupation. 357 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,039 The sort of training that we were doing was essentially 358 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:43,279 sort of colonial stuff. You identified your target, 359 00:20:43,319 --> 00:20:44,960 you spotted the ringleader. 360 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,239 And if the crowd didn't disperse, well, and you had to open fire, 361 00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:49,920 he was the chap you shot first. 362 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,560 I mean, this was the basic sort of teaching. 363 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Well, erm... 364 00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:56,800 None of that applied. 365 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:03,279 CROWD SINGS 366 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,880 My Uncle Michael was killed on Bloody Sunday, 367 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,319 and that changed all of our lives. 368 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,680 13 men died on Bloody Sunday. 369 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,560 It's impossible to exaggerate the way that this event burnt itself 370 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,000 into the hearts and minds of the Catholic community. 371 00:21:44,439 --> 00:21:46,840 My father was a serving member of the RAF 372 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,000 but when Bloody Sunday happened, that was my mother's brother. 373 00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:52,239 So, we came home. 374 00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,560 Me daddy resigned from the RPF and we ended up living back in Derry 375 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,439 right back in the Bogside. 376 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,399 The Bogside, Londonderry, where it all began, 377 00:22:01,439 --> 00:22:04,439 where bigotry made fools of the world's church leaders 378 00:22:04,479 --> 00:22:07,000 who were trying to cool down religious differences, 379 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:10,840 not heat them up. The Protestants foolishly marched, 380 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,720 the Catholics foolishly threw stones. 381 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,319 All hell broke loose. 382 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:22,359 We were brought up through the Troubles, so every day was... 383 00:22:22,399 --> 00:22:26,520 ..stop and search and every day was Brits and army on the streets. 384 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,399 But as relatives of a Bloody Sunday victim, 385 00:22:30,439 --> 00:22:33,520 we were targeted very much, like all our neighbours 386 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,760 and all our friends and extended family and stuff like that. 387 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,800 So everyday was stopping and searching, lots of raids. 388 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,760 I remember me daddy getting arrested and taken out of the house 389 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800 one morning, and another morning a couple of raids after that, 390 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,079 me mother was arrested and taken out of the house. 391 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,479 And this was, this was normal. 392 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,159 The police do not go into Catholic areas without the protection of the army. 393 00:22:55,199 --> 00:22:58,199 The searching of houses is a joint operation between the army 394 00:22:58,239 --> 00:22:59,880 and the police. 395 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,680 Patrolling like this is relatively routine, 396 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,800 but searching, which is probably the most contentious activity 397 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,239 of the security forces, they don't allow to be filmed. 398 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,680 I remember the soldiers coming into the house and taking apart 399 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,840 me and me sister's doll's house, where you'd wake up 400 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,319 and there'd be soldiers looking at you, armed soldiers, 401 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,000 and me mammy and daddy would be trying to bring us downstairs. 402 00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:24,840 The soldiers and the police would be in wrecking the house. 403 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,760 The amount of funerals that I went to, 404 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,960 of kids that were killed with plastic bullets, 405 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,760 of hunger strikers, the two Derry hunger strikers, 406 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,479 the amount of protests that I was on, the Bloody Sunday marches, 407 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,520 and in the middle of all I'm going to school and doing O Levels 408 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,720 and A Levels and trying to be as normal as possible, 409 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,520 have friends, follow the style, follow the music, 410 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,840 erm, be down at the riots. 411 00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:05,960 So when I was 18 years old, this fella that I knew, 412 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,960 asked me... 413 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,720 ..well, it seemed to me like he was asking me to help him join the IRA. 414 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,880 And it turned out that he wasn't asking me to help him join. 415 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,239 He was asking me to join up. 416 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,960 And there was such a rush of adrenaline at that moment 417 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,880 when I realised what he was saying, because I'd been to the marches, 418 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,800 been to all the demonstrations. 419 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,920 And it seemed like he'd seen something more in me than marching 420 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,680 and demonstrations, and it felt like, here's an opportunity 421 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,039 to fight for my people, to fight for freedom. 422 00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:42,399 I had this idealistic, romantic dream of a free Ireland 423 00:24:42,439 --> 00:24:47,520 and...and from what I had seen and experienced all over the years, 424 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,760 the only answer to what was going on in our communities 425 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,319 was to get the Brits out and take control for ourselves. 426 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,319 So I became a member of the IRA. 427 00:25:16,199 --> 00:25:19,760 County Fermanagh is Northern Ireland's Lake District. 428 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,720 In happier times it could well be the holiday paradise 429 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,760 the guidebooks all speak of. 430 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,239 But the reality is that Fermanagh is the only county in Northern Ireland 431 00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,760 to be surrounded on three sides by a border with the Republic. 432 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,720 Enclosed within it is about 25,000 Protestants. 433 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760 Many are farming along the border itself. 434 00:25:42,239 --> 00:25:44,640 The high ground you see away in the distance, 435 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,920 on the far side of the lake, as the border runs right along the back 436 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,239 and across the far side of the mountain, because the lake 437 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:53,680 is all in the north. 438 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,840 My family are from right on the border. My family are originally from Donegal 439 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,039 and then we moved in, erm, before I was born in the late '50s, 440 00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:04,039 erm, to the northern side of the border. 441 00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:08,079 My father's theory was really to get a better farm, better land 442 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,239 and a better education for the children. 443 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:16,399 Erm, and at that stage I can recall, certainly as a child, 444 00:26:16,439 --> 00:26:19,720 that we mixed well with the Roman Catholic community 445 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,119 within that area of Fermanagh. 446 00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:24,920 Unfortunately that started to change. 447 00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:33,199 In 1969, '70, the IRA realised that it was these Unionists 448 00:26:33,239 --> 00:26:37,600 along the border who were the bulwark for the British people 449 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,720 along that border, that they would need to remove them. 450 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,680 And that's what they consciously tried to do, 451 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,239 is remove the border minority Unionists away. 452 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,319 These are the gates into our old family farm. 453 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,079 The border runs along the back of the farm, roughly half a mile away. 454 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,479 And on the 30th of March, '84, 455 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,960 that was the route they used. They parked on the other side 456 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,880 of the river, followed the hedgerows down to the farm 457 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,000 and waited in the early hours until my brother went out to feed the cattle, 458 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,000 on the tractor, and they shot him in the back on the tractor. 459 00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:19,399 Shot him dead. 460 00:27:20,479 --> 00:27:24,239 My father, when my brother was murdered, was in his 70s. 461 00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:26,840 A place that he'd built up for years, 462 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,720 and they had to sell the farm very cheap, 463 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,319 all the machinery was sold off cheap. 464 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,319 The animals were sold cheap. 465 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,800 My father and mother and young sister had to move into a rented house. 466 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,000 And it still to this day rankles with me that... 467 00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:45,479 ..neighbours, people we would have classed as friends, 468 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,520 set my brother up and had him murdered. 469 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,520 Not good. 470 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,520 The IRA claimed he was on the security forces. He wasn't. 471 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,520 He had been a part-time UDR man for a short time 472 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,319 and he left, he didn't like it. 473 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,279 And he'd been away from it seven years when they murdered him. 474 00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:07,920 I remember as a boy growing up in the Unionist community, 475 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,359 not the Unionist community - small farms as you can see round here, 476 00:28:11,399 --> 00:28:14,000 and it's subsistence farming, 477 00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:17,520 and I know plenty of guys joined either the police 478 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,239 or the Reserve Police, or the UDR, or the British army even, 479 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:24,560 to get a lock of extra pound to bring into the family, 480 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,359 put a bit of food on the table and have some quality of life. 481 00:28:27,399 --> 00:28:31,439 Most border farmers have always had at least one licensed shotgun 482 00:28:31,479 --> 00:28:34,600 close at hand, ostensibly for vermin. 483 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,760 In the troubles of the '20s, their fathers patrolled with them 484 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,920 at night, and those days are not forgotten even now. 485 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,439 Many of these men served in the B Specials themselves 486 00:28:45,479 --> 00:28:49,319 and naturally enlisted into the ranks of the new UDR. 487 00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:53,920 Most northern Protestants would have seen the border as almost 488 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,399 like a defensive perimeter, you know. 489 00:28:56,439 --> 00:29:00,239 We drew this line and we retreated behind it. 490 00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:04,439 And they could say, well, yes, it did stop Irish nationalism 491 00:29:04,479 --> 00:29:06,479 from taking over the entire island. 492 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,479 It did preserve our place within the United Kingdom. 493 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,880 And that has to be acknowledged, 494 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,520 you know, and the reasons 495 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,039 that they thought like that have to be acknowledged. 496 00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:21,960 When you see your neighbour getting out with a gun on his shoulder, 497 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,239 a gun on his hip, and you're on the road, 498 00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:25,640 and you meet another neighbour, 499 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,039 and that neighbour happens to be a nationalist neighbour 500 00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:30,720 and they have a different, maybe they had a different attitude 501 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,479 or a different upbringing or they were a different religion, 502 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,680 and they take them out and they search them, 503 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,279 and maybe they were searching their house the night before. 504 00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:40,840 My God, to put two communities and divide them like that 505 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,960 and put such animosity between them, and enmity between them... 506 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,840 REPORTER: In the last few weeks, 507 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,199 this deceptive landscape has been the setting 508 00:29:49,239 --> 00:29:53,840 for a series of vicious sectarian murders and reprisals. 509 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,800 And in an attempt to deter travelling gunmen, 510 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,479 the army have started a limited campaign 511 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,399 of blocking the border. OK? Stand by. Blow now. 512 00:30:03,439 --> 00:30:05,479 EXPLOSION 513 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,039 Blowing up border crossings has long been an established army tactic. 514 00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:13,640 It's deeply resented by most local people, 515 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,680 who, in many cases, 516 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,920 have been quick to repair the damage. 517 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,680 This side has never been blown before. 518 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,319 It was temporarily blocked at one stage by a Braithwaite tank. 519 00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:24,600 But now it's been decided to blow the pitch. 520 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920 What happened to the temporary blockage? 521 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,119 The temporary blockage was put in a long time ago 522 00:30:29,159 --> 00:30:30,840 and it was cut away. 523 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,720 It was cut away by some of the local people 524 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,439 who wanted to reopen the road? 525 00:30:34,479 --> 00:30:37,279 To get their cattle over and go to the market and come to church. 526 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:39,079 LAUGHTER 527 00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:40,439 All those good things, eh? 528 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,520 They haven't come to admire the view, 529 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,720 but to dig up the road. 530 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,039 Does this kind of thing affect your own personal attitude 531 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:53,920 to the British and the army? Of course it does. 532 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,039 We resent this very much, 533 00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:56,720 and the very fact that they come in there 534 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,560 and the fact that I have taken a shovel 535 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,399 that they have left in the Republic 536 00:31:00,439 --> 00:31:02,359 means that they have been in the Republic, 537 00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:04,079 violating our territorial boundary 538 00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:05,880 and they have absolutely no respect for us. 539 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,039 I have confiscated the shovel and that is my evidence 540 00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:10,159 and I'm prepared to give it to the guards that are... 541 00:31:10,199 --> 00:31:11,479 if they want. 542 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,159 Otherwise, it'll be a souvenir. 543 00:31:13,199 --> 00:31:14,359 That's what you got? 544 00:31:14,399 --> 00:31:15,399 Well, I took it. 545 00:31:15,439 --> 00:31:17,640 It wasn't given to me. 546 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,039 That barricade there is absolutely useless to anyone 547 00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:23,720 except to deprive the people of this locale of their livelihood. 548 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,680 That's the only thing it's doing. 549 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,319 It's a waste of time. 550 00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:38,720 In a couple of days, the people have opened the road again 551 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,119 and taken out the obstacle with ease. 552 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,439 The tightness and the nilness round that space. 553 00:31:50,479 --> 00:31:52,880 And the car stops in the road. 554 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,119 The troops inspect its make and number. 555 00:31:58,199 --> 00:32:01,239 And, as one bends his face towards your window, 556 00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:03,800 you catch sight of more on a hill beyond, 557 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,520 eyeing with intent down cradled guns 558 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,840 that hold you under cover. 559 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,159 And everything is pure interrogation until a rifle motions, 560 00:32:14,199 --> 00:32:17,960 and you move with guarded unconcerned acceleration. 561 00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,479 A little emptier. 562 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,359 A little spent, as always, 563 00:32:23,399 --> 00:32:28,760 by that quiver in the self subjugated yes and obedient. 564 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,359 There was a lot of times when... 565 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,239 ..that part of crossing the border, 566 00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:35,119 your heart's in your throat. 567 00:32:37,439 --> 00:32:41,520 You're hoping to God that the bus doesn't get searched 568 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,119 or whatever car you're in doesn't get searched. 569 00:32:44,159 --> 00:32:45,680 I was coming back on the bus 570 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,920 and I had a handgun to bring back into Derry, 571 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,319 and I had the handgun down me trousers. 572 00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:53,880 And I was on the back of the bus 573 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,079 and there was this fella sitting beside me, 574 00:32:56,119 --> 00:32:58,560 and there was a wee bit of flirty stuff going on, 575 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,399 and I remember thinking 576 00:33:00,439 --> 00:33:03,800 that if I didn't have this gun down me trousers, 577 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,720 then I probably would've went for it because he seemed all right. 578 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,079 So here I am the back of the bus on the way back to Derry 579 00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:10,439 and it was a long journey, 580 00:33:10,479 --> 00:33:12,439 and there's all this flirtation stuff going on 581 00:33:12,479 --> 00:33:14,479 And I go, "Ah, too difficult there." 582 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,000 And when I got back to Derry, 583 00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:19,880 I actually had a massive bruise the shape of a gun on me leg. 584 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,399 My own view is that the British Army, 585 00:33:26,439 --> 00:33:29,239 that their position is a very, very dangerous one 586 00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:31,359 because they now are like the bit of ham 587 00:33:31,399 --> 00:33:34,960 between two pieces of bread and it may well happen 588 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,159 the British Army will take the brunt 589 00:33:37,199 --> 00:33:40,199 of the future struggle in Northern Ireland. 590 00:33:40,239 --> 00:33:43,079 Soldiers like these and the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 591 00:33:43,119 --> 00:33:45,279 patrol this border for four months at a time, 592 00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:47,279 and they know better than anyone else 593 00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:49,640 that they are operating in bandit country. 594 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,319 You're playing this very dangerous, high-stakes game the entire time. 595 00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,680 Are we going to walk down that side? Or that side? 596 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,760 I don't like the look of that car. 597 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000 I don't like the look of that lamp post. 598 00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:02,159 I'm not going where that bin is. 599 00:34:02,199 --> 00:34:03,520 Why are the windows open? 600 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,920 What's that car doing down there with the engine on? 601 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,640 Whenever we went near the border, the hackles went up 602 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,000 and we were very, very wary of what could happen. 603 00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:17,720 And we'd been told about attacks 604 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,439 coming over from the south into the north, 605 00:34:20,479 --> 00:34:23,359 and how the Provisional IRA would attack 606 00:34:23,399 --> 00:34:25,479 and then quickly go back over the border, 607 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,680 so to us, the border was a very, very dangerous place. 608 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:32,880 In my mind, I saw the border as being a threat 609 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,439 because I saw, without even knowing anything of the politics, 610 00:34:35,479 --> 00:34:37,039 I'm not interested in the politics. 611 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,039 I'm just a young infantry platoon commander, holding a weapon, 612 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,479 who's thinking about the wellbeing of himself and his men. 613 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,199 And for me, this represents a safe haven for my enemy 614 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,920 because all I know is that they can just come from across the border 615 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,680 or escape across the border 616 00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:56,960 almost with impunity, you know, and launch attacks on us. 617 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,159 The IRA were mounting illegal vehicle checkpoints 618 00:35:02,199 --> 00:35:03,439 along the border. 619 00:35:03,479 --> 00:35:08,199 Our company were tasked to put these observation positions 620 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,720 along the border and we were supposed to be waiting for the IRA 621 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,800 to come across the border and mount these checkpoints, 622 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,359 and we were going to stop them, 623 00:35:17,399 --> 00:35:19,800 either by arresting them or other means. 624 00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:25,000 My group comprising three men, another soldier, 625 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:28,840 Lance Corporal Gavin Deane, who was in charge of us, and myself, 626 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,920 and we went to this scrapyard literally on the border. 627 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,359 We found this old, derelict rusty van 628 00:35:36,399 --> 00:35:38,119 that was quite close to the road, 629 00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:39,560 so if anything happened, 630 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,840 we could get out of this van very quickly to do what we needed to do. 631 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,399 Nothing happened the first night. 632 00:35:45,439 --> 00:35:47,239 Everything was quiet. 633 00:35:47,279 --> 00:35:50,920 And then on the second day that we were there, 634 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,880 as dusk was approaching, 635 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,600 the sudden stillness and calm of the Ulster midsummer's evening 636 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,000 was suddenly shattered by loud firing from across the border. 637 00:36:04,359 --> 00:36:07,880 I returned fire as best I could from where I thought they were. 638 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,920 And as I did that, 639 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,399 Lance Corporal Gavin Dean, Deano, was hit. 640 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,239 I then ran out of ammunition. 641 00:36:16,279 --> 00:36:19,760 And I picked up the rifle that Deano had had. 642 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,000 And then I was hit. 643 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:23,079 I didn't know at the time, 644 00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:25,680 but I was hit in the spine just below my neck. 645 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,000 The three soldiers were hiding here in the corner of the scrapyard 646 00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:30,680 when they came under fire. 647 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,760 Exactly what they were doing here isn't clear, 648 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,159 but they may have been involved 649 00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:37,239 in some kind of SAS-type undercover operation. 650 00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:42,000 Deano was shaking next to me in some sort of violent spasm, 651 00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:44,039 trying to fight for his life 652 00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:48,399 and his foot was kicking the side of my, side of my face. 653 00:36:48,439 --> 00:36:50,159 And it's something that... 654 00:36:51,319 --> 00:36:53,560 It's the sensation and feeling that I'll never forget. 655 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,039 It's something that... 656 00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:58,920 ..I'll probably take with me to my grave. 657 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,279 After a short while, 658 00:37:03,319 --> 00:37:06,600 half the British army sort of descended on this particular point 659 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,039 on the border and put Deano on a stretcher, 660 00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:14,039 put me on a stretcher, and then they flew us to Belfast. 661 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,720 And as we arrive there, 662 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,199 that's when Deano actually died, just as we arrived. 663 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,239 So he died just before midnight on the 16th of July, 1981. 664 00:37:27,279 --> 00:37:30,800 Later that day, they decided to move me 665 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,279 to a better neurological facility over in England. 666 00:37:35,319 --> 00:37:37,479 Must be very hard, being as young as you are. 667 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,079 Then suddenly something like this happens, and...? 668 00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:42,239 Um... 669 00:37:43,399 --> 00:37:45,399 Yeah, well, I'm 20 years old now 670 00:37:45,439 --> 00:37:49,039 and that happened when I was 19, so... 671 00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:51,920 I'm quite young. 672 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,720 But... 673 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,720 There's people were born with things like me from the start. 674 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,079 I'm not that bad off. 675 00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:00,960 How do you stay so cheerful? 676 00:38:02,359 --> 00:38:04,119 Well, I'm not in any pain. 677 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,239 So why not? 678 00:38:09,279 --> 00:38:12,119 The border is inside me all the time. 679 00:38:12,159 --> 00:38:17,079 Everything I do now is affected by that one moment in time. 680 00:38:23,399 --> 00:38:25,960 In an Irish tour, I always try and include Belfast 681 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,880 and the North of Ireland. 682 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,720 After all, I lived there for a while, 683 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,279 and I learned a lot playing in the clubs there. 684 00:38:33,319 --> 00:38:35,760 So I have a certain home feeling for the place. 685 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,439 Really, the only thing that kept the island together 686 00:38:38,479 --> 00:38:41,479 in those years was music. 687 00:38:45,439 --> 00:38:47,199 He was the ultimate hero there, 688 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,439 and he did cross that sectarian divide 689 00:38:50,479 --> 00:38:53,159 that was such a phenomenon in Northern Ireland, 690 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,560 and in the context of the most intense conflict, 691 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,720 people from both sides of the divide came to see Rory 692 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,039 at those great gigs in the Ulster Hall. 693 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,640 One sector of the economy that seemed to be immune 694 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,399 from the violence and the mayhem was the entertainment industry. 695 00:39:16,439 --> 00:39:17,880 Hello. Yes. 696 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,239 My name is Ardal, and I know quite a lot. 697 00:39:21,279 --> 00:39:24,600 The stand-up comedian, I travelled across the border regularly, 698 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,319 you know, while a lot of comedians wouldn't go across the border, 699 00:39:28,359 --> 00:39:31,720 you know, during, like, intense flash points 700 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,479 in the history of the Troubles. 701 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,920 You know, there were times, there were periods of months, 702 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,000 maybe even years, where people just, 703 00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:41,319 you know, just didn't want to take the chance of going over. 704 00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:45,279 I would relish the opportunity to go to the north. 705 00:39:45,319 --> 00:39:48,279 I remember just the reception I got when I stood on stage. 706 00:39:48,319 --> 00:39:49,720 I didn't have to do anything. 707 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,800 I didn't have to do any jokes, really, 708 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,680 like, it was just the very fact that you came, that you were there. 709 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,479 Thank you all very much indeed. Thank you. 710 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,600 Oh, this is wonderful. 711 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,479 This is wonderful, I love it. Anyway, hello! 712 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,520 So nothing would stop you. crossing the border, 713 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,520 in fact, if there was trouble, tension, 714 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,600 it made you all the more determined 715 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,439 to try and live as normal a life as possible. 716 00:40:08,479 --> 00:40:10,680 You know, people still wanted to go out 717 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,359 and have a good time, so I suppose the biggest show in town 718 00:40:13,399 --> 00:40:15,159 in those days was the show bands. 719 00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:18,920 These were essentially cover bands and, you know, 720 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,840 they travelled over and back across the border at will. 721 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,000 And the biggest band in the mid-'70s 722 00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:26,239 was a band called The Miami Showband. 723 00:40:26,279 --> 00:40:29,039 # I didn't even know your name 724 00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:34,079 # I didn't care cos I was sexy... # 725 00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:36,680 I remember the Miami Showband really vividly. 726 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:38,760 They were, you know, from Dublin, 727 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,680 but like all of those show bands, they played everywhere, 728 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,880 and they just treated the island as one place. 729 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,399 There was no sense that, you know, 730 00:40:45,439 --> 00:40:48,199 you were a Northern show band or a Southern show band. 731 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,840 They just played whatever dance halls were available. 732 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,319 They had a very charismatic lead singer called Fran O'Toole 733 00:40:53,359 --> 00:40:56,159 who was writing his own songs and he was a pin-up boy, 734 00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:58,239 a bit like David Cassidy or something. 735 00:40:58,279 --> 00:41:00,479 # You gotta smile a little more... # 736 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,560 They were travelling back from a gig back to Dublin 737 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,760 and they were stopped at a checkpoint. 738 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,239 It looked like an army checkpoint that they were stopped on, 739 00:41:11,279 --> 00:41:14,920 and they were told to get off the minibus. 740 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,079 And they were lined up on the side of the road 741 00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:19,600 and they were joking, at first, with the soldiers. 742 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,159 But they realised something was slightly amiss. 743 00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:23,720 And what happened was 744 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,840 people were planting a bomb on their minibus 745 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,079 for reasons that are probably going to sound very arcane, 746 00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:33,880 and almost too farfetched for words. 747 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,560 But the idea was that the UVF 748 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,479 or the Protestant paramilitary organisation 749 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,680 wanted to harden the border 750 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:42,560 to stop terrorists coming across the border. 751 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,119 And I think they were trying to illustrate the point by saying, 752 00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:48,479 "Look, apparently innocent people like the Miami Showband 753 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,079 "are smuggling bombs across the border." 754 00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:52,720 So the idea was that 755 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,159 the Miami Showband would get back on their bus, 756 00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:56,479 and that the bus would blow up 757 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,119 at some point further down the road, 758 00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,520 and it would look like they were smuggling bombs 759 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:02,840 across the border. 760 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,399 The bomb went off when they closed 761 00:42:06,439 --> 00:42:09,399 the back of the personnel van. 762 00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:15,840 And instantly killed the two guys that were standing at the van, 763 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,880 one of them that just pushed me. 764 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,760 When it transpired that the objective was a complete 765 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,720 and utter cock-up on their part, 766 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,159 they decided to assassinate the members of the band 767 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:29,399 there and then on the side of the road. 768 00:42:29,439 --> 00:42:31,520 Fran was the good-looking lead singer. 769 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,640 And they shot him 22 times in the face. 770 00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:41,159 They found the arm of one of the bombers. 771 00:42:42,399 --> 00:42:45,079 It was obviously blown up in the explosion, 772 00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:47,279 and the arm had UVF tattoos. 773 00:42:47,319 --> 00:42:49,760 So that's pretty clear cut that the person who was planting 774 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,760 the bomb was a self-styled member 775 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,600 of a Protestant paramilitary organisation. 776 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,279 The murders of the Miami Showband seemed to sound like 777 00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:02,279 a kind of deliberate attack on that... 778 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,479 ..fragile but beautiful texture of everyday life. 779 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,119 You know, where people just got on with living together 780 00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:11,479 in the same place 781 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,119 and having the same kind of enjoyment, 782 00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,399 listening to the same kind of music, 783 00:43:15,439 --> 00:43:17,760 flirting with members of the opposite sex 784 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,760 from whatever denomination they were. 785 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,560 That those murders really just seemed 786 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,439 like a particularly brutal assault 787 00:43:25,479 --> 00:43:28,279 on the pleasures of daily life 788 00:43:28,319 --> 00:43:32,119 that had kept some sense of unity together for people. 789 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,520 Colonel Prosser inspects the Walls of Derry. 790 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,799 It's only the army who go on the walls now. 791 00:43:43,839 --> 00:43:46,199 Before 1968, it was a regular walking place 792 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:47,640 for the people. 793 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,999 How's the Bogside this morning? 794 00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:50,320 The walls were closed 795 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,440 because they were designed only too well. 796 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,720 They overlook so much of the surrounding city, 797 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,640 that they're ideal either for sniping or observing. 798 00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:05,039 This mural down here, it depicts the innocents, 799 00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:08,440 the innocent lives lost in this war and in all wars. 800 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,480 But the images of a young woman called Annette McGavigan 801 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,199 who lived up in this area, 802 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,199 and when she was coming home from school, 803 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,919 she was shot by a British soldier and killed in the Troubles. 804 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,239 There was a lot of innocent people, children, 805 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,720 that got caught up in the Troubles. 806 00:44:28,839 --> 00:44:31,079 # Armoured cars and tanks and guns 807 00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:33,400 # Came to take away our sons 808 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,440 # But every man will stand behind 809 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,079 # The men behind the wire 810 00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:43,280 # Through the little streets of Belfast 811 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,320 # In the dark of early morn 812 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,280 # Wrecking homes from early morning 813 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,079 # British soldiers... 814 00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,360 # Armoured cars and tanks and guns 815 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,640 # Came to take away our sons 816 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,720 # But every man will stand behind 817 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,440 # The men behind the wire. # 818 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,919 This is the regular Saturday afternoon shooting incident 819 00:45:07,959 --> 00:45:09,360 in Strabane. 820 00:45:13,839 --> 00:45:16,199 # Armoured cars and tanks and guns 821 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:17,959 # Came to take away our sons 822 00:45:17,999 --> 00:45:20,839 # Every man will stand behind 823 00:45:20,879 --> 00:45:24,799 # The man behind the wire. # 824 00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:27,119 APPLAUSE 825 00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,480 A bomb exploded near the war memorial 826 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,799 in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. 827 00:45:31,839 --> 00:45:34,959 The crowd which had gathered there was given no warning. 828 00:45:34,999 --> 00:45:38,360 They were civilians, Catholic and Protestant, young and old, 829 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,799 there with their wreaths to remember. 830 00:45:40,839 --> 00:45:43,839 There were a number of staging posts in atrocity... 831 00:45:43,879 --> 00:45:45,159 Actually on the border. 832 00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:48,839 ..where the legitimacy of the IRA's campaign 833 00:45:48,879 --> 00:45:53,640 was being fundamentally questioned by the very community 834 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,039 on whose behalf it was supposed to be waged, 835 00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:58,560 which were, you know, Northern Catholics. 836 00:46:00,879 --> 00:46:04,520 Patsy had his own business when we were married. 837 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,560 He had a mobile fruit and vegetable van 838 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,239 and he went bankrupt in this business. 839 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,760 So he took a job with the army 840 00:46:13,799 --> 00:46:15,799 because it was the only thing available 841 00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:17,199 here in Derry at the time. 842 00:46:20,119 --> 00:46:21,199 The IRA... 843 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,440 ..let themselves into the house. 844 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,959 Somebody ran up and stuck something at my neck. 845 00:46:26,999 --> 00:46:29,640 I was told, "If you do what you're told, nobody will get hurt." 846 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,720 And Patsy put his arms around me 847 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,199 and he says, "Everything'll be OK, girl, 848 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,640 "I'll be back soon." 849 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,760 Even if someone was a Catholic, it didn't make any difference. 850 00:46:38,799 --> 00:46:43,600 They were still considered as legitimate targets by the IRA. 851 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,999 They took him across the border to where they had the safe house 852 00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:49,799 and where the van was. 853 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,199 They chained Patsy... 854 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,959 ..to the controls of the van. 855 00:46:57,999 --> 00:47:02,079 I will surmise that he knew by this time he was going to die. 856 00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:04,360 Because, as they went across the border, 857 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,720 they couldn't stay in the car with their masks on. 858 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,879 So it's quite possible that Patsy recognised them, 859 00:47:09,919 --> 00:47:13,239 or would have recognised them at a future time. 860 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:18,119 So he knew from midnight on, until the explosion at 4.00AM, 861 00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:21,159 for four hours, that he was going to die. 862 00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:23,879 The Coshquin Checkpoint outside Londonderry 863 00:47:23,919 --> 00:47:26,039 was a heavily fortified Army position 864 00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:28,680 guarding one of the main crossing points on the border 865 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,680 between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. 866 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,079 Afterwards, all that was left was a pile of rubble. 867 00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:38,959 I've had evidence from surviving soldiers... 868 00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:42,480 ..that Patsy saved lives that night. 869 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,959 Which is something that I'm very proud of, 870 00:47:49,999 --> 00:47:53,839 because, with him being chained into the van, 871 00:47:53,879 --> 00:47:58,119 he obviously knew he wasn't getting out. 872 00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:01,560 He wasn't going to get out alive, but he shouted, 873 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,600 as soon as he stopped the van, 874 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,039 he shouted, "Run, lads, I'm loaded." 875 00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:11,720 The murder of Patsy Gillespie was a particularly grotesque moment, 876 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,400 even, you know, we got used to atrocity, 877 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,560 but this moment seems like one 878 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,199 that there was just a darkness to it. 879 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,199 And you thought, "It's almost like this darkness is emanating 880 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,440 "out of something beyond the immediate, 881 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,280 "you know, that it's as if all of this toxicity 882 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,919 "which has been built up in this landscape for so long 883 00:48:33,959 --> 00:48:37,839 "is expressing itself in something as horrible as this." 884 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,079 Right, do you know what? 885 00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:53,039 It has to be somewhere along this part of the road 886 00:48:53,079 --> 00:48:56,360 because this is the Coshquin Road. 887 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,280 So it's somewhere... 888 00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,680 on that stretch. 889 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,400 By the powers of deduction, 890 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,119 having never had to really think about it before, 891 00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:12,879 I reckon that this is the point 892 00:49:12,919 --> 00:49:15,199 where the North meets the South. 893 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,199 When the word came through 894 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,560 that Patsy Gillespie and those five soldiers 895 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,680 down at Coshquin had been killed in the bomb, 896 00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:25,959 you have to, you think about it. 897 00:49:25,999 --> 00:49:29,720 Bombs weren't unusual, horrific deaths weren't unusual. 898 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,879 That was the norm for us here. 899 00:49:31,919 --> 00:49:35,079 But there was something about the fact 900 00:49:35,119 --> 00:49:38,360 that my organisation had taken this man from his home, 901 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,039 held his family hostage, 902 00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:41,879 but chained him in the van 903 00:49:41,919 --> 00:49:43,680 where he had no escape, 904 00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:46,159 then remote control the explosion. 905 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,600 And I was a member of the organisation at that time. 906 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,799 But when the news came through, my stomach hit the floor. 907 00:49:54,839 --> 00:49:59,239 My heart was ready to burst and I cried. 908 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,879 And I thought, "What the hell have we become?" 909 00:50:01,919 --> 00:50:04,999 Oh, there has to be a better way than this. 910 00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:08,119 I remember being in the kitchen and my parents, 911 00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:11,079 nobody knew, none of my family knew that I was in the IRA, 912 00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:15,119 I'm leading this massive, secret double life. 913 00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:18,959 And my daddy had his hands on the counter in the kitchen 914 00:50:18,999 --> 00:50:21,839 and the news was on the radio and TV, 915 00:50:21,879 --> 00:50:24,239 and I remember saying to me Daddy, 916 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,320 "Daddy, that's not what we're about, is it?" 917 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,400 And he said, "No, that's not what we're about." 918 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,440 It was after Patsy's death more than anything, 919 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,239 that my involvement with the IRA just dissipated. 920 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,560 And, eventually, I would leave Derry and move to Limerick. 921 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,239 The horror at the murder of Patsy Gillespie 922 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,799 definitely did create a revulsion that... 923 00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:50,400 ..in the long term, the IRA and Sinn Fein had to respond to. 924 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,119 CHEERING 925 00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:53,320 Sinn Fein leaders will meet 926 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,600 the Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern tomorrow 927 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,640 to discuss the state of the peace process. 928 00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,079 There's been reports of divisions within the IRA 929 00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:01,600 over how best to proceed. 930 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,879 When the Labour Party get in, one thing that they had 931 00:51:04,919 --> 00:51:06,199 was a huge majority. 932 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,560 And history had taught us, not just in Ireland but elsewhere, 933 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,400 that it didn't depend on what their politics was, 934 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:17,119 but that they had the strength behind them to make big steps. 935 00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:21,159 An historic agreement for peace in Northern Ireland has been reached 936 00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:23,119 within the past few minutes. 937 00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:25,199 We can see pictures now from Stormont, 938 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,360 where the leaders of the eight parties 939 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,079 which have been involved in the talks, 940 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,400 together with the Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom 941 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,119 and the Republic of Ireland are announcing details 942 00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:39,320 of an agreement which is intended to end nearly 30 years of conflict 943 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,959 and which have cost more than 3,000 lives. 944 00:51:42,999 --> 00:51:45,159 I never thought in my lifetime I would see it, 945 00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:46,999 but what we were talking about here 946 00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:48,760 is something as mammoth as the collapse 947 00:51:48,799 --> 00:51:49,879 of the Berlin Wall. 948 00:51:49,919 --> 00:51:51,360 I just remember celebrating wildly 949 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,159 when the Good Friday Agreement was signed. 950 00:51:53,199 --> 00:51:55,839 I mean, it was right up there as one of the great occasions 951 00:51:55,879 --> 00:51:57,119 in recent Irish history. 952 00:51:57,159 --> 00:51:59,799 I mean, it was like, it was like the birth of a child or something, 953 00:51:59,839 --> 00:52:02,079 or it was like, you know, Ireland winning the World Cup. 954 00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:06,320 It was like, it was an extraordinary occasion. 955 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,159 Every household in Northern Ireland, including mine, was sent a copy 956 00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:12,999 of the Good Friday Agreement. 957 00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:15,799 It set out a plan to disarm the men of violence, 958 00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:18,480 release paramilitary prisoners, 959 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,159 and for both sides to share power in government. 960 00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:23,839 And then we voted on it. 961 00:52:23,879 --> 00:52:26,520 The people of Northern Ireland had until half an hour ago 962 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,480 to decide whether they're prepared to do 963 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,159 what everyone from the President of the United States 964 00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:33,360 through Prime Ministers in London and Dublin 965 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,440 and most political leaders here want them to do 966 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,239 and endorse the Good Friday Peace Agreement. 967 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,039 The Northern Ireland Referendum, 968 00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:44,039 the 22nd of May, 1998... 969 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,600 I hereby give... 970 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,159 I hereby give notice... 971 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,839 ..that the percentage of votes given 972 00:52:51,879 --> 00:52:54,280 at the Referendum was as follows... 973 00:52:56,199 --> 00:52:57,480 Yes. 974 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,440 71.12%. 975 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,760 CHEERING 976 00:53:03,799 --> 00:53:06,400 The other brilliant thing about the Good Friday Agreement 977 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,280 was you were allowed to choose 978 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,239 whatever nationality you wanted to be. 979 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,400 You could choose to be Irish in Northern Ireland 980 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,119 or you could choose to be British in Northern Ireland 981 00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:18,959 or, like me, you could choose to be both. 982 00:53:18,999 --> 00:53:20,760 When you see the prisoners, 983 00:53:20,799 --> 00:53:23,280 and you know that some of the things that they have done, 984 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,039 coming out of prison, 985 00:53:25,079 --> 00:53:26,799 big smiles and handshakes, 986 00:53:26,839 --> 00:53:29,400 you sort of think, "You know, this, this isn't right," 987 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,039 but the more I thought about it, the more I thought, 988 00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:33,199 "No, this is right. 989 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,360 "This is the way to go forward." 990 00:53:38,919 --> 00:53:40,640 When the army is off the border, 991 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,480 when the watchtowers are taken down, the miracle happens. 992 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,360 The border doesn't disappear, 993 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,239 but it just becomes irrelevant 994 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,680 and it really meant that vast numbers of people on the island 995 00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,400 could just get about the business of living. 996 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,879 When I came back to settle in Derry in 2001, 997 00:53:57,919 --> 00:54:00,919 I didn't realise that I had a lot of stuff inside, 998 00:54:00,959 --> 00:54:03,640 a lot of stuff that I hadn't dealt with. 999 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,720 So I went down the road of peace and reconciliation 1000 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,400 and would come to dialogue with Patsy Gillespie's wife. 1001 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,600 I knew when the group met up, 1002 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,680 that one of them was an ex-IRA woman 1003 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:19,720 and I was curious to meet her. 1004 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,839 That first meeting of all of us women together 1005 00:54:21,879 --> 00:54:23,560 was unbelievably nerve-racking. 1006 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,239 I was nearly sick, because now, for the first time 1007 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,799 I would be telling who I was. 1008 00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:31,879 I was 13 when the Hunger Strikes began, 1009 00:54:31,919 --> 00:54:34,119 and that was all anyone talked about. 1010 00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:36,480 I could have told you the names and times of death 1011 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,400 of each of the Hunger Strikers. 1012 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,199 They were our saviours, our heroes, our protectors, 1013 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:42,879 in my eyes, they could do no wrong. 1014 00:54:42,919 --> 00:54:44,720 Before I turned to Kathleen, and I thought, 1015 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,079 "Whatever this woman has to say to me, 1016 00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:50,760 "whatever this woman has to do, I'm just going to take it," 1017 00:54:50,799 --> 00:54:52,600 and I was prepared for grief 1018 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,239 because I had heard that Kathleen was a tough cookie. 1019 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,839 And when I turned round, she put her arms round me 1020 00:54:57,879 --> 00:54:59,560 and she gave me a big, massive hug. 1021 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,119 And sometimes I get emotional when I tell this bit of the story, 1022 00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:03,720 and she says, "We're going to be OK." 1023 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:11,600 If you look at the two extremes of myself whose husband was murdered 1024 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,239 so wickedly by the IRA, just so brutally. 1025 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,760 And I'm best friends with an ex-IRA woman. 1026 00:55:18,799 --> 00:55:21,199 We are the embodiment... 1027 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:24,760 ..of what can be. 1028 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,799 But I will never ever forgive the IRA, 1029 00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:33,720 because they just tore my life and my family's apart. 1030 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,320 I mean, Patsy wasn't there for his daughter's wedding. 1031 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,199 Patsy should have been there for that. 1032 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,079 People on the outside, they thought, "Oh, they have a ceasefire 1033 00:55:50,119 --> 00:55:51,879 "and they have a peace process. 1034 00:55:51,919 --> 00:55:53,520 "And so that's all that sorted. 1035 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,680 "Now, we don't have to worry about Northern Ireland any more." 1036 00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:58,480 But it's not sorted. 1037 00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,680 It's not by a long way sorted. 1038 00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:07,119 This attack has been linked to the dissident Republican group 1039 00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:09,320 known as the New IRA, 1040 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,799 prescribed organization which aims to bring about 1041 00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:14,079 a United Ireland. 1042 00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:16,839 Northern Ireland has a long way to go yet. 1043 00:56:16,879 --> 00:56:19,039 People go to their own churches, their own schools, 1044 00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:21,959 their own community centres, their own pubs, 1045 00:56:21,999 --> 00:56:23,360 they live in their own areas, 1046 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,680 and it may as well be down a racial line. 1047 00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,400 The one thing we absolutely definitely know as a matter of fact 1048 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,520 about the Irish border is it is unpolice-able. 1049 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,600 Nobody has ever been able to control it, 1050 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,959 and nobody ever will be able to control it. 1051 00:56:43,999 --> 00:56:45,079 We simply know that 1052 00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:47,720 if you put up any physical infrastructure, 1053 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,079 it will become a magnet for attack. 1054 00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:53,839 Don't put everyone through all this again. 1055 00:56:53,879 --> 00:56:57,320 You know what happened all those years ago, you know... 1056 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,119 ..with the border posts and all the checks and everything 1057 00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:03,760 out on the border. 1058 00:57:03,799 --> 00:57:06,560 Don't put us through that again because too many lives were lost, 1059 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,760 too many people were broken. 1060 00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:11,119 Are we all fine? Are we all over it? 1061 00:57:11,159 --> 00:57:14,440 Is it all out of our systems? 1062 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,159 I mean, there is a theory that the entire country 1063 00:57:18,199 --> 00:57:21,119 of Northern Ireland suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder. 1064 00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:22,320 Is that true? 1065 00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,480 I don't know. 1066 00:57:25,999 --> 00:57:28,760 There's some talk now if the border comes back, 1067 00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:30,520 that there's a possibility 1068 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,839 that they could be spoiling it again. 1069 00:57:32,879 --> 00:57:34,520 But I'll tell you one thing, 1070 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,879 I'll not be involved in anything like that again. 1071 00:57:36,919 --> 00:57:38,560 Not for a minute. 1072 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,440 You could have been shot. You could have been shot. 1073 00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,280 But I survived or I wouldn't be talking to you. 85900

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