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This is border country -
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the dividing line
between the British province of
Northern Ireland
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and the Irish Republic. The border
meanders for nearly 300 miles.
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It was created in 1922 when Ireland
became a free state and Ulster
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00:00:23,159 --> 00:00:24,440
remained British.
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This is the border - cause of some
2,000 deaths on this island
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over the last ten years.
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It's virtually impossible
to seal up this border.
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Is the border the source of the
trouble,
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or is it merely a symptom?
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00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,480
There's a lot of money made off the
border.
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All kinds of smuggling, be it
cattle, cigarettes, alcohol.
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Your job is to protect the border.
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Hello, is that the IRA Publicity
Bureau, please?
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I grew up hating the people
in the uniforms.
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I grew up hating the police. I grew
up hating the British Army.
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And I ended up joining the IRA.
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The border has a huge impact
on my life.
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Everything I do now is affected
by that one moment in time.
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LOUD BANG
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The existence of the border
has caused dispute and bloodshed,
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but nevertheless it constitutes
an international frontier.
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Would its removal unite the hearts
and minds of the people
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00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,159
of this island?
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Or do the divisions run too deep?
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Do I like the border?!
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Course I don't like the border.
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The border should never
have existed on this island.
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I get fed up that people keep
talking about the "Irish border."
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It's a British border.
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Partitioned by a treaty signed in
1922.
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Six counties allied to the north.
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00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,960
26 counties of the Republic
to the south.
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Between the two is the border,
manned on either side by customs
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00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,519
guards as if the people
and the land were different.
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ALARM RINGS
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My name is Paddy Gillespie.
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I like to be called Paddy, because
I really am a paddy.
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And I'm older than
the Irish border.
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I'm 102, so I know quite a bit about
the activities
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and what went on across the border.
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It was all about a division on our
wee island of Ireland.
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There were 32 counties, and there
were six of them taken away.
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And that was run by the British
Government and left Ireland with 26
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counties which so far, up to date,
we're doing all right.
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Our money's all right
and we're living fairly peacefully.
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00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,480
HE LAUGHS
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00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,920
My family have been resident
here in the border area for well
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00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,760
over 200 years.
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They came here as soldiers,
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towards the end of the 17th century
during the reigns of Elizabeth
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and also of Charles I.
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Just perfect, just perfect.
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England was driven by a very serious
concern for security.
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They wanted to prevent either
the Spaniards or, later, the French
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from using Ireland as a beachhead
and potentially launching a direct
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00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,199
invasion of England.
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00:04:08,239 --> 00:04:12,039
And therefore there was
a considerable effort on behalf
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00:04:12,079 --> 00:04:17,360
of successive British governments
to settle Protestants on the island
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of Ireland, where the vast
mass were Catholic.
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I think any border that is imposed
upon a country from outside
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is going to create scars,
both on the land
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and also in people's minds.
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There is absolutely no question,
the imposition of a border
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00:04:43,079 --> 00:04:46,360
has been a disaster for the island
of Ireland.
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00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:58,840
England seem to dominate
lots of places across the world,
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and build barriers and invade
different countries.
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But, I'll tell you, I would
have preferred they had have
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00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:06,880
stayed out of our wee island.
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00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,079
When I was 17,
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when you wanted to go over
the border you were issued
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with a book, which entailed
you had to go in
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and have this book stamped.
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And if you stayed over the border,
even if you were only in
for an hour,
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you had to have it stamped
coming out again.
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You're trying to get into your own
country, and across
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your own river.
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No-one likes this frontier,
like a scar
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on a beautiful woman's face.
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And it made you feel,
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"Am I wanted here? Am I a part of
this country? Am I part of Ireland?"
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00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:47,519
Travellers are stopped by Irish
Guards as they leave the Republic,
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by Her Majesty's men a few yards
farther on as they enter Ulster.
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To the tourist, it is an
inconvenience.
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To the patriot, an open wound.
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And to a segment of the Irish youth,
a call to violent action.
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This is a smuggler.
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She's on a return trip from Britain
into Ireland with quantities
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of butter, bread and tinned food,
all of which are cheaper in Ulster.
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Smuggling is an old tradition
around here, and they start them
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kind of young.
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Once a year,
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my mother would take us on the train
up from Dublin, up to Belfast, to
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buy clothes, cos clothes
were much cheaper in the north
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than they were in the south.
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And I just remember vividly the
change in your body as you came back
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across the border, because
you have five layers of clothes
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on, supposedly to fool the customs
officials, you know, that you were
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you were smuggling these clothes,
basically, by wearing them.
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So, you went up as a skinny
little kid, and you came back
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as a kind of Michelin Man, you know!
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00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,639
I smuggled my wedding dress.
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00:06:52,679 --> 00:06:54,320
And I'm sure you smuggled yours.
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Smuggled my wedding dress.
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I smuggled the curtains
for the dining room on this.
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I'll tell you, I used to be sitting
maybe seven or eight cars
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in front of you, coming to the
customs, you know,
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00:07:06,719 --> 00:07:09,679
and the custom man coming out,
and checking all them cars,
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and you sitting sweating.
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And by chance, he sort of waved you
on.
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"Oh, my God." I know, you felt so
relieved.
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Oh, relieved, surely to God.
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You went and you
smuggled the flour, and the bread,
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00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,079
and butter, and the tea,
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00:07:26,119 --> 00:07:28,519
and cigarettes... Yeah.
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00:07:28,559 --> 00:07:30,559
..was things that were smuggled.
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00:07:30,599 --> 00:07:34,960
In John Britton's pub which quenches
thirst for 13 hours a day,
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00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,039
cigarettes are up to a shilling
cheaper.
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00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:40,840
So, addicts flock in from across
the border to buy over 200,000
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00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,519
cigarettes a week.
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00:07:42,559 --> 00:07:47,199
I remember smuggling cows,
cattle across the river.
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Many a farmer took to smuggling
cattle across the border to markets
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00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,000
in Northern Ireland.
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00:07:52,039 --> 00:07:56,920
Four of us were asked to help seven
or eight head of cattle across the
river.
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00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,800
Now, we had a great bit of bother
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00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,039
getting them into the river.
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And we all followed with sticks
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00:08:03,239 --> 00:08:07,920
and battered them across the river
and I had, I wasn't a great swimmer,
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00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,159
so as soon as I went in to
chest deep,
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I had to hold on to a cow's tail.
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00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,079
And, believe it or not,
if somebody had have told me
that cows could swim,
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I would have laughed at them.
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00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,239
But that cow took me across,
no problem at all.
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I wasn't very heavy!
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00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,000
You used to get some money
from the state, so you'd get
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00:08:28,039 --> 00:08:31,159
a kind of a headage payment for
every pig you exported.
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00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:35,159
It was a little inducement
for exporters, and...
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00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:37,960
..there's anecdotal...
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..evidence that people used
to smuggle pigs across the border,
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so they would export a lorry-load of
pigs, get the cheque,
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00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:50,000
and then they would drive those pigs
back across the border,
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then a few days later export
the same pigs.
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Customs officials wouldn't recognise
them as the pigs
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that crossed the border
two or three days ago,
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so you would be paid twice for the
same lorry-load of pigs.
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00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,920
I think there's a tendency
to look at the border and smuggling
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00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,239
for comic relief of something
that was actually quite distressful.
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00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:14,720
Smuggling wasn't a hobby. It wasn't,
it wasn't a comic event.
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00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,840
It was economic necessity
for a lot of people.
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00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,479
Strabane has the highest proportion
of people out of work in the whole
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00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:22,960
of the United Kingdom.
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At least one in three men
here is unemployed,
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00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:28,479
and unless he has brilliant exam
results,
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a boy who is now
in his last year at school
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00:09:31,119 --> 00:09:33,960
has probably
less chance of finding a job
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than anywhere else in Europe.
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The border definitely affected
Strabane.
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00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,279
There's no question about it.
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There was no work in Strabane.
There were no jobs in Strabane.
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00:09:43,439 --> 00:09:45,840
There was no industry in Strabane.
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My wife didn't like this idea of
smuggling at all.
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She didn't like it.
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00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,640
Although she had to admit that
the money was useful.
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00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:53,680
HE LAUGHS
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00:09:58,079 --> 00:10:01,600
The border goes down roads,
it goes through houses, it goes
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00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,960
through streams, it crosses fields.
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00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,079
The border is like a child took
a pen to the map of Ireland, just
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00:10:10,119 --> 00:10:12,800
did a squiggly line across the top
of it.
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00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,720
If I get caught speeding on this
side, I'll get fined in euros.
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00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,319
And if I get caught speeding on the
side I'll get fined in pounds.
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00:10:19,359 --> 00:10:22,199
Unless I get run over on the border.
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So, I don't know which
ambulance'll come to get us.
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00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,039
SHE LAUGHS
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00:10:28,079 --> 00:10:31,680
Mr McRae, a shopkeeper,
undertaker and a Protestant,
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00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,079
buries the British.
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00:10:33,119 --> 00:10:34,560
When a Catholic dies,
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00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,039
he drives Pettigo's one
and only hearse to the border,
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00:10:38,079 --> 00:10:41,039
where John Britton, who's Irish
in spite of his name, collects
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00:10:41,079 --> 00:10:44,239
the hearse and goes off to bury
his fellow Catholics.
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00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:46,079
So, where are you for today?
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00:10:46,119 --> 00:10:49,920
Ballyshannon. Ballyshannon?
Yeah.
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00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:50,960
Safe journey.
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00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,840
There's this idea that
the Protestants have a really strong
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00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,640
work ethic, and that Catholics
are inherently lazy.
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00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,920
Like, if I tidied my house,
I would go round, and I do say it,
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00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,560
I know I say it, I say,
"Now, that's a bit more Protestant
looking," cos it means
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00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,640
it's nice and tidy and clean
and organised.
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00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,399
What a weird thing to say.
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00:11:15,439 --> 00:11:18,880
TRADITIONAL MUSIC
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00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:24,119
But the Catholics, I think, are
considered to be a bit more craic,
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00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:27,159
a bit more laid back, you know?
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00:11:27,199 --> 00:11:31,159
A bit more kind of drinking
and dancing and singing,
195
00:11:31,199 --> 00:11:33,479
and the traditional music
and all of that kind of thing.
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00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,680
Protestants would be seen to be
quite uptight, a bit straight-laced.
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00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,239
As a Protestant child, I crossed the
border to go to my church
198
00:11:42,279 --> 00:11:44,000
and when I crossed the border,
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00:11:44,039 --> 00:11:46,720
I felt almost
like people were staring at me.
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00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,840
I was a foreigner in a foreign land.
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00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:49,960
Even on the buses.
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00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,880
For example, Protestants sat one
side, Catholics sat the other side,
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00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,039
you know, you lived it totally.
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00:11:56,079 --> 00:11:58,640
Different community.
You didn't mix in any way.
205
00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,760
And that was a sad state
of affairs, because my family
206
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,640
were all from Southern Ireland
originally.
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00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:07,640
And we felt like we were foreigners
in our own land.
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00:12:10,319 --> 00:12:12,479
INDISTINCT CHANTING
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00:12:14,239 --> 00:12:17,920
As a kid crossing the border,
you did feel that you were into
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00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,920
a different kind of terrain.
211
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,840
We had a very ignorant view
of the North.
212
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680
We thought of the North as
Protestant, exclusively, you know!
213
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,920
We were actually very unaware,
oddly enough, of people like us.
214
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,159
You know, the Irish Catholics
being north of the border.
215
00:12:45,479 --> 00:12:49,960
I knew the importance of
being a Catholic in the North.
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00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,800
The first time I met a Protestant,
I was working part-time
in Dunnes Stores,
217
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,479
and this girl came in on work
experience, and we were told
218
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,479
that this girl's a Protestant.
219
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,279
But what I believed at that time
about Protestant people
220
00:13:02,319 --> 00:13:04,079
was, one, they all hated us.
221
00:13:04,119 --> 00:13:07,279
I had asked my father why they all
hate us so much, and he told me
222
00:13:07,319 --> 00:13:10,000
was that they believed that our Pope
was the Antichrist,
223
00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:12,159
so they thought we were
all Antichrist.
224
00:13:12,199 --> 00:13:14,800
And I remember thinking,
"God if I thought somebody was an
225
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,119
"Antichrist, I wouldn't like them
either."
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00:13:17,159 --> 00:13:19,720
So, this young girl is coming
in on work experience,
227
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,479
and I'm expecting somebody
who's snobby, polite, expensive,
228
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,399
and in comes this wee hard ticket,
covered in tattoos with piercings
all over,
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00:13:29,439 --> 00:13:32,640
and I'm thinking, "Are you sure
this one's a Protestant?"
230
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:34,359
When the working day's over,
231
00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:38,119
both sides go back to their own
separate communities.
232
00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:42,600
For most people in the city,
the only time they meet
across the divide is at work.
233
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,439
They live separately, worship
separately, drink separately.
234
00:13:46,479 --> 00:13:47,880
The schools are separate.
235
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,239
As a child, you don't really know
about this.
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00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:53,000
But as you get older, you realise
well, there's a Protestant school
237
00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:56,039
and a Catholic school,
there's a Protestant church
and a Catholic church.
238
00:13:56,079 --> 00:13:57,600
There are Protestant shops.
239
00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,560
You know, there was two newsagents
in the town.
240
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,760
There was the Protestant newsagent
and the Catholic newsagent,
you know,
241
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,039
and the Protestant supermarket
and the Catholic supermarket,
242
00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:09,199
and the Protestant hardware shop
and the Catholic hardware shop.
243
00:14:09,239 --> 00:14:12,039
So, you became aware of that over
time and, you know, I suppose
244
00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:14,439
there would have been a tiny bit
of prejudice, but not much.
245
00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:16,279
I mean, there was no real trouble
in my town.
246
00:14:16,319 --> 00:14:18,600
There was a little bit
of name calling, that was about it.
247
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,119
You know, I think we called them
Proddie goats
and they called us kitty cats!
248
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,600
This is Fintona, County Tyrone, one
of the six north-eastern counties
249
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,079
of Ireland which are held
under British rule.
250
00:14:35,119 --> 00:14:37,800
Big families and little houses
are normal in these
251
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,640
back streets of Fintona.
252
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,880
These two-room cottages
in Brunswick Row have no running
253
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,640
water and no sanitation.
254
00:14:46,079 --> 00:14:48,239
Against a background of such
great need,
255
00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,800
how is it that council houses
are built for people who either
256
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,359
do not need new houses or can well
afford to rent them
257
00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:54,840
in the ordinary way?
258
00:14:56,319 --> 00:14:58,640
The answer is a political one.
259
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,640
Two-thirds of the people of this
little town are nationalists.
260
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,199
They are in favour of unity
with the rest of Ireland
261
00:15:04,239 --> 00:15:08,039
and against being treated
as part of Britain.
262
00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:11,439
One third is unionist, which means
favouring British rule
263
00:15:11,479 --> 00:15:13,159
and the partition of Ireland.
264
00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:16,439
But the town is controlled
by that Unionist minority
265
00:15:16,479 --> 00:15:18,720
and run solely in their interest.
266
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,039
I was brought up believing
that we were second class citizens.
267
00:15:23,079 --> 00:15:26,239
The fact that we didn't own homes
because if we owned homes
268
00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:27,960
then we would have a vote.
269
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,159
It was a manipulated state.
Housing was bad.
270
00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:33,079
The job situation was bad.
271
00:15:33,119 --> 00:15:36,319
Patrick Coyle has lived five years
in a condemned house.
272
00:15:36,359 --> 00:15:38,640
We're living in there
just like animals.
273
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,720
Four children - three girls,
one boy - a wife and meself.
274
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,239
We're in one room,
a four by three room,
275
00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:47,960
we have no toilet,
nor we have no, eh,
276
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,920
adequate supply of water.
277
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,600
My granny, my mother's mother,
278
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:59,199
when she had her home,
she had 14 children
279
00:15:59,239 --> 00:16:01,920
and they shared that house
with another family.
280
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,960
Me daddy's family were nine children
and they shared with another family
281
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,359
and he remembers
curtains partitioning.
282
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:13,880
Me daddy always relates to a story
where a family eventually got
283
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,479
one of the new houses
in the Creggan Estate,
284
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,680
and about a month after they
moved in, the council came along
285
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,600
to see if everybody was fine.
286
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,800
But the whole family
were living in the kitchen
287
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,119
and the father of the family says,
288
00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:29,560
"When is the next family moving in?"
289
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,800
Only to be told that this house was
for them. They couldn't believe it,
290
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,479
cos there was four bedrooms and
there was another sitting room.
291
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,479
So these are the stories
that I grew up with.
292
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,600
These people are gathering
to protest.
293
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,520
They're British,
but with a difference.
294
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,479
Over a quarter of them
cannot vote in local elections.
295
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,000
This is Londonderry,
Protestant stronghold of the North,
296
00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:52,479
a city of religious rivalry, housing
shortages, sweeping unemployment
297
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,920
and a mounting bitterness
over civil rights.
298
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,560
# We shall overcome...#
299
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,479
{\an1}Those who campaign for civil rights
in Londonderry feel they share
300
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,399
more than a song with civil
rights movements elsewhere.
301
00:17:06,439 --> 00:17:11,119
They have even called themselves
Britain's white Negros.
302
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,279
{\an1}I think it was pretty clear
that Catholics were discriminated
303
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,239
against in Northern Ireland,
purely in terms of jobs.
304
00:17:20,279 --> 00:17:23,159
The jobs in the manufacturing
industries seemed to be pretty
305
00:17:23,199 --> 00:17:26,760
sewn up for Protestant people. Jobs
in the civil service were scarce
306
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,640
for Catholics. The police force
was almost exclusively Protestant.
307
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,199
In Northern Ireland only
one policeman in line was Catholic.
308
00:17:35,239 --> 00:17:37,920
Unlike the police
in the rest of the United Kingdom,
309
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,159
the Royal Ulster Constabulary,
the RUC, was armed.
310
00:17:42,199 --> 00:17:45,520
But if the Minister of Home Affairs
thought that the situation
311
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,000
demanded it, the police
could be augmented by a voluntary
312
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:53,119
part-time force,
entirely Protestant, the B Specials.
313
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,399
In October 1968
a civil rights march in Londonderry,
314
00:18:00,439 --> 00:18:03,199
which had been banned,
met a police barricade
315
00:18:03,239 --> 00:18:05,720
of the Royal Ulster Constabulary.
316
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,079
God save us all! Argh!
317
00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:18,359
The behaviour of the police, and
especially of their auxiliaries,
318
00:18:18,399 --> 00:18:21,600
the B Specials,
shocked the outside world.
319
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,760
Clear evidence that something
was alarmingly wrong
with the state of Ulster.
320
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,840
Here is the official
north of Ireland view on partition.
321
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,319
40 years ago,
26 of the countries of Ireland
322
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,239
broke away from Great Britain
and formed an independent state.
323
00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:42,479
We in the north of Ireland, with
a population of 1.5 million people,
324
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,319
decided by an overwhelming majority
325
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,960
at a great national general
election, that we would remain
326
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,760
within the United Kingdom.
327
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,039
When the state was set up,
you had, erm,
328
00:18:54,079 --> 00:18:58,640
I think roughly 36% of the state
would have been classed
as Nationalist.
329
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,960
And that's 36% did not support
the formation of a government
330
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,880
in Belfast. They wanted to be part
of an all Ireland government.
331
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,920
And if you have a third of the
people not supporting the government
332
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,960
then it was always going to be
in problems and there was always
333
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,079
going to be issues, and those issues
festered for years and years
and years.
334
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,039
In the early days
of the new state, Protestant resolve
335
00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:24,039
was stiffened by the fact
that the IRA made violent efforts
336
00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:27,520
to prevent the Northern Ireland
government from functioning at all.
337
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,560
A long and bitter struggle
to secure its authority
338
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,800
left an enduring mark
on the character of the new regime.
339
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,600
In the hundred years of
the Northern Ireland existence,
340
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,760
it has always been under attack
from IRA.
341
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,760
There are always people getting
killed, always threat of violence.
342
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,920
There's always a threat of people
being shot and that has not stopped
343
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,800
since the 1920s.
344
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,239
The conflict rapidly worsened
as the front line between Protestant
345
00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:57,359
and Catholic became
a sectarian war zone.
346
00:19:59,399 --> 00:20:02,319
When the first British troops
marched in, they were greeted
347
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,680
by Catholics as saviours,
an army of liberation.
348
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,159
Is it all right if I give you
this coffee? Hello.
349
00:20:09,199 --> 00:20:13,319
There you are, love. Thank you.
That's for after your lunch or after
your dinner. Thank you very much.
350
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,239
Appreciate it. Thank you.
351
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,239
In the Catholic ghettos especially,
appearance belied reality.
352
00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:22,720
Though the soldiers
were still a novelty,
353
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,880
the relationship had already
become extremely fragile.
354
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,560
In the absence of reform, the people
would begin to turn on the troops
355
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,439
and the erstwhile liberators
would soon be regarded
356
00:20:36,479 --> 00:20:38,640
as an army of occupation.
357
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,039
The sort of training that we were
doing was essentially
358
00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:43,279
sort of colonial stuff.
You identified your target,
359
00:20:43,319 --> 00:20:44,960
you spotted the ringleader.
360
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,239
And if the crowd didn't disperse,
well, and you had to open fire,
361
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:49,920
he was the chap you shot first.
362
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,560
I mean, this was
the basic sort of teaching.
363
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,000
Well, erm...
364
00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:56,800
None of that applied.
365
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:03,279
CROWD SINGS
366
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,880
My Uncle Michael was killed
on Bloody Sunday,
367
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,319
and that changed all of our lives.
368
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,680
13 men died on Bloody Sunday.
369
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,560
It's impossible to exaggerate
the way that this event burnt itself
370
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,000
into the hearts and minds
of the Catholic community.
371
00:21:44,439 --> 00:21:46,840
My father was a serving member
of the RAF
372
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,000
but when Bloody Sunday happened,
that was my mother's brother.
373
00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:52,239
So, we came home.
374
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,560
Me daddy resigned from the RPF
and we ended up living back in Derry
375
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,439
right back in the Bogside.
376
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,399
The Bogside, Londonderry,
where it all began,
377
00:22:01,439 --> 00:22:04,439
where bigotry made fools
of the world's church leaders
378
00:22:04,479 --> 00:22:07,000
who were trying to cool down
religious differences,
379
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:10,840
not heat them up.
The Protestants foolishly marched,
380
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,720
the Catholics foolishly
threw stones.
381
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,319
All hell broke loose.
382
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:22,359
We were brought up through
the Troubles, so every day was...
383
00:22:22,399 --> 00:22:26,520
..stop and search and every day
was Brits and army on the streets.
384
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,399
But as relatives
of a Bloody Sunday victim,
385
00:22:30,439 --> 00:22:33,520
we were targeted very much,
like all our neighbours
386
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,760
and all our friends and extended
family and stuff like that.
387
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,800
So everyday was stopping
and searching, lots of raids.
388
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,760
I remember me daddy getting arrested
and taken out of the house
389
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800
one morning, and another morning
a couple of raids after that,
390
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,079
me mother was arrested
and taken out of the house.
391
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,479
And this was, this was normal.
392
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,159
The police do not go into Catholic
areas without the protection
of the army.
393
00:22:55,199 --> 00:22:58,199
The searching of houses is a joint
operation between the army
394
00:22:58,239 --> 00:22:59,880
and the police.
395
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,680
Patrolling like this
is relatively routine,
396
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,800
but searching, which is probably
the most contentious activity
397
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,239
of the security forces,
they don't allow to be filmed.
398
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,680
I remember the soldiers coming
into the house and taking apart
399
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,840
me and me sister's doll's house,
where you'd wake up
400
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,319
and there'd be soldiers
looking at you, armed soldiers,
401
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,000
and me mammy and daddy would be
trying to bring us downstairs.
402
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:24,840
The soldiers and the police
would be in wrecking the house.
403
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,760
The amount of funerals
that I went to,
404
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,960
of kids that were killed
with plastic bullets,
405
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,760
of hunger strikers,
the two Derry hunger strikers,
406
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,479
the amount of protests that I was
on, the Bloody Sunday marches,
407
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,520
and in the middle of all I'm going
to school and doing O Levels
408
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,720
and A Levels and trying
to be as normal as possible,
409
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,520
have friends, follow the style,
follow the music,
410
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,840
erm, be down at the riots.
411
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:05,960
So when I was 18 years old,
this fella that I knew,
412
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,960
asked me...
413
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,720
..well, it seemed to me like he was
asking me to help him join the IRA.
414
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,880
And it turned out that he wasn't
asking me to help him join.
415
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,239
He was asking me to join up.
416
00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,960
And there was such a rush
of adrenaline at that moment
417
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,880
when I realised what he was saying,
because I'd been to the marches,
418
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,800
been to all the demonstrations.
419
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,920
And it seemed like he'd seen
something more in me than marching
420
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,680
and demonstrations, and it felt
like, here's an opportunity
421
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,039
to fight for my people,
to fight for freedom.
422
00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:42,399
I had this idealistic, romantic
dream of a free Ireland
423
00:24:42,439 --> 00:24:47,520
and...and from what I had seen
and experienced all over the years,
424
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,760
the only answer to what was
going on in our communities
425
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,319
was to get the Brits out
and take control for ourselves.
426
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,319
So I became a member of the IRA.
427
00:25:16,199 --> 00:25:19,760
County Fermanagh
is Northern Ireland's Lake District.
428
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,720
In happier times it could well be
the holiday paradise
429
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,760
the guidebooks all speak of.
430
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,239
But the reality is that Fermanagh is
the only county in Northern Ireland
431
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,760
to be surrounded on three sides
by a border with the Republic.
432
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,720
Enclosed within it is about
25,000 Protestants.
433
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Many are farming
along the border itself.
434
00:25:42,239 --> 00:25:44,640
The high ground you see
away in the distance,
435
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,920
on the far side of the lake, as the
border runs right along the back
436
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,239
and across the far side of
the mountain, because the lake
437
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:53,680
is all in the north.
438
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,840
My family are from right on the
border. My family are originally
from Donegal
439
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,039
and then we moved in, erm,
before I was born in the late '50s,
440
00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:04,039
erm, to the northern side
of the border.
441
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:08,079
My father's theory was really to get
a better farm, better land
442
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,239
and a better education
for the children.
443
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:16,399
Erm, and at that stage
I can recall, certainly as a child,
444
00:26:16,439 --> 00:26:19,720
that we mixed well
with the Roman Catholic community
445
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,119
within that area of Fermanagh.
446
00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:24,920
Unfortunately that started
to change.
447
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:33,199
In 1969, '70, the IRA realised
that it was these Unionists
448
00:26:33,239 --> 00:26:37,600
along the border who were the
bulwark for the British people
449
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,720
along that border,
that they would need to remove them.
450
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,680
And that's what they consciously
tried to do,
451
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,239
is remove the border
minority Unionists away.
452
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,319
These are the gates
into our old family farm.
453
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,079
The border runs along the back of
the farm, roughly half a mile away.
454
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,479
And on the 30th of March, '84,
455
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,960
that was the route they used.
They parked on the other side
456
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,880
of the river, followed the hedgerows
down to the farm
457
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,000
and waited in the early hours
until my brother went out
to feed the cattle,
458
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,000
on the tractor, and they shot him
in the back on the tractor.
459
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:19,399
Shot him dead.
460
00:27:20,479 --> 00:27:24,239
My father, when my brother
was murdered, was in his 70s.
461
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:26,840
A place that he'd built up
for years,
462
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,720
and they had to sell the farm
very cheap,
463
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,319
all the machinery
was sold off cheap.
464
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,319
The animals were sold cheap.
465
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,800
My father and mother
and young sister had to move
into a rented house.
466
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,000
And it still to this day
rankles with me that...
467
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:45,479
..neighbours, people we would
have classed as friends,
468
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,520
set my brother up
and had him murdered.
469
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,520
Not good.
470
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,520
The IRA claimed he was
on the security forces. He wasn't.
471
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,520
He had been a part-time UDR man
for a short time
472
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,319
and he left, he didn't like it.
473
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,279
And he'd been away from it
seven years when they murdered him.
474
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:07,920
I remember as a boy growing up
in the Unionist community,
475
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,359
not the Unionist community - small
farms as you can see round here,
476
00:28:11,399 --> 00:28:14,000
and it's subsistence farming,
477
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:17,520
and I know plenty of guys
joined either the police
478
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,239
or the Reserve Police, or the UDR,
or the British army even,
479
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:24,560
to get a lock of extra pound
to bring into the family,
480
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,359
put a bit of food on the table
and have some quality of life.
481
00:28:27,399 --> 00:28:31,439
Most border farmers have always
had at least one licensed shotgun
482
00:28:31,479 --> 00:28:34,600
close at hand,
ostensibly for vermin.
483
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,760
In the troubles of the '20s,
their fathers patrolled with them
484
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,920
at night, and those days
are not forgotten even now.
485
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,439
Many of these men served
in the B Specials themselves
486
00:28:45,479 --> 00:28:49,319
and naturally enlisted
into the ranks of the new UDR.
487
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:53,920
Most northern Protestants would
have seen the border as almost
488
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,399
like a defensive perimeter,
you know.
489
00:28:56,439 --> 00:29:00,239
We drew this line
and we retreated behind it.
490
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:04,439
And they could say, well, yes,
it did stop Irish nationalism
491
00:29:04,479 --> 00:29:06,479
from taking over the entire island.
492
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,479
It did preserve our place
within the United Kingdom.
493
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,880
And that has to be acknowledged,
494
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,520
you know, and the reasons
495
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,039
that they thought
like that have to be acknowledged.
496
00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:21,960
When you see your neighbour getting
out with a gun on his shoulder,
497
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,239
a gun on his hip,
and you're on the road,
498
00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:25,640
and you meet another neighbour,
499
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,039
and that neighbour happens
to be a nationalist neighbour
500
00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:30,720
and they have a different, maybe
they had a different attitude
501
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,479
or a different upbringing
or they were a different religion,
502
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,680
and they take them out
and they search them,
503
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,279
and maybe they were searching
their house the night before.
504
00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:40,840
My God, to put two communities
and divide them like that
505
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,960
and put such animosity between
them, and enmity between them...
506
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,840
REPORTER: In the last few weeks,
507
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,199
this deceptive landscape
has been the setting
508
00:29:49,239 --> 00:29:53,840
for a series of vicious sectarian
murders and reprisals.
509
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,800
And in an attempt to deter
travelling gunmen,
510
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,479
the army have started a limited
campaign
511
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,399
of blocking the border.
OK? Stand by. Blow now.
512
00:30:03,439 --> 00:30:05,479
EXPLOSION
513
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,039
Blowing up border crossings has long
been an established army tactic.
514
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:13,640
It's deeply resented by most
local people,
515
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,680
who, in many cases,
516
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,920
have been quick to repair
the damage.
517
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,680
This side has never been blown
before.
518
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,319
It was temporarily blocked at one
stage by a Braithwaite tank.
519
00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:24,600
But now it's been decided
to blow the pitch.
520
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920
What happened to the temporary
blockage?
521
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,119
The temporary blockage was put
in a long time ago
522
00:30:29,159 --> 00:30:30,840
and it was cut away.
523
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,720
It was cut away by some
of the local people
524
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,439
who wanted to reopen the road?
525
00:30:34,479 --> 00:30:37,279
To get their cattle over and go
to the market and come to church.
526
00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:39,079
LAUGHTER
527
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:40,439
All those good things, eh?
528
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,520
They haven't come to admire
the view,
529
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,720
but to dig up the road.
530
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,039
Does this kind of thing
affect your own personal attitude
531
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:53,920
to the British and the army?
Of course it does.
532
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,039
We resent this very much,
533
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:56,720
and the very fact that they
come in there
534
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,560
and the fact that I have taken
a shovel
535
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,399
that they have left in the Republic
536
00:31:00,439 --> 00:31:02,359
means that they have been in the
Republic,
537
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:04,079
violating our territorial boundary
538
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:05,880
and they have absolutely
no respect for us.
539
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,039
I have confiscated the shovel
and that is my evidence
540
00:31:08,079 --> 00:31:10,159
and I'm prepared to give it
to the guards that are...
541
00:31:10,199 --> 00:31:11,479
if they want.
542
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,159
Otherwise, it'll be a souvenir.
543
00:31:13,199 --> 00:31:14,359
That's what you got?
544
00:31:14,399 --> 00:31:15,399
Well, I took it.
545
00:31:15,439 --> 00:31:17,640
It wasn't given to me.
546
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,039
That barricade there is
absolutely useless to anyone
547
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:23,720
except to deprive the people of this
locale of their livelihood.
548
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,680
That's the only thing it's doing.
549
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,319
It's a waste of time.
550
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:38,720
In a couple of days, the people
have opened the road again
551
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,119
and taken out the obstacle
with ease.
552
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,439
The tightness and the nilness
round that space.
553
00:31:50,479 --> 00:31:52,880
And the car stops in the road.
554
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,119
The troops inspect its make
and number.
555
00:31:58,199 --> 00:32:01,239
And, as one bends his face
towards your window,
556
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:03,800
you catch sight of more on a hill
beyond,
557
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,520
eyeing with intent down
cradled guns
558
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,840
that hold you under cover.
559
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,159
And everything is pure interrogation
until a rifle motions,
560
00:32:14,199 --> 00:32:17,960
and you move with guarded
unconcerned acceleration.
561
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,479
A little emptier.
562
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,359
A little spent, as always,
563
00:32:23,399 --> 00:32:28,760
by that quiver in the self
subjugated yes and obedient.
564
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,359
There was a lot of times when...
565
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,239
..that part of crossing the border,
566
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:35,119
your heart's in your throat.
567
00:32:37,439 --> 00:32:41,520
You're hoping to God that the bus
doesn't get searched
568
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,119
or whatever car you're in doesn't
get searched.
569
00:32:44,159 --> 00:32:45,680
I was coming back on the bus
570
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,920
and I had a handgun
to bring back into Derry,
571
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,319
and I had the handgun
down me trousers.
572
00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:53,880
And I was on the back of the bus
573
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,079
and there was this fella sitting
beside me,
574
00:32:56,119 --> 00:32:58,560
and there was a wee bit
of flirty stuff going on,
575
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,399
and I remember thinking
576
00:33:00,439 --> 00:33:03,800
that if I didn't have this gun down
me trousers,
577
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,720
then I probably would've went for it
because he seemed all right.
578
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,079
So here I am the back of the bus
on the way back to Derry
579
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:10,439
and it was a long journey,
580
00:33:10,479 --> 00:33:12,439
and there's all this flirtation
stuff going on
581
00:33:12,479 --> 00:33:14,479
And I go,
"Ah, too difficult there."
582
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,000
And when I got back to Derry,
583
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:19,880
I actually had a massive bruise
the shape of a gun on me leg.
584
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,399
My own view is that the
British Army,
585
00:33:26,439 --> 00:33:29,239
that their position
is a very, very dangerous one
586
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:31,359
because they now are like the
bit of ham
587
00:33:31,399 --> 00:33:34,960
between two pieces of bread
and it may well happen
588
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,159
the British Army will take
the brunt
589
00:33:37,199 --> 00:33:40,199
of the future struggle
in Northern Ireland.
590
00:33:40,239 --> 00:33:43,079
Soldiers like these
and the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers
591
00:33:43,119 --> 00:33:45,279
patrol this border for four months
at a time,
592
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:47,279
and they know better
than anyone else
593
00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:49,640
that they are operating in bandit
country.
594
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,319
You're playing this very dangerous,
high-stakes game the entire time.
595
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,680
Are we going to walk down that side?
Or that side?
596
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,760
I don't like the look
of that car.
597
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000
I don't like the look of that
lamp post.
598
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:02,159
I'm not going where that bin is.
599
00:34:02,199 --> 00:34:03,520
Why are the windows open?
600
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,920
What's that car doing down there
with the engine on?
601
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,640
Whenever we went near the border,
the hackles went up
602
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,000
and we were very, very wary
of what could happen.
603
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:17,720
And we'd been told about attacks
604
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,439
coming over from the south
into the north,
605
00:34:20,479 --> 00:34:23,359
and how the Provisional IRA
would attack
606
00:34:23,399 --> 00:34:25,479
and then quickly go back
over the border,
607
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,680
so to us, the border was a very,
very dangerous place.
608
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:32,880
In my mind, I saw the border
as being a threat
609
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,439
because I saw, without even knowing
anything of the politics,
610
00:34:35,479 --> 00:34:37,039
I'm not interested in the politics.
611
00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,039
I'm just a young infantry
platoon commander, holding a weapon,
612
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,479
who's thinking about the wellbeing
of himself and his men.
613
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,199
And for me, this represents
a safe haven for my enemy
614
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,920
because all I know is that they can
just come from across the border
615
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,680
or escape across the border
616
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:56,960
almost with impunity, you know,
and launch attacks on us.
617
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,159
The IRA were mounting illegal
vehicle checkpoints
618
00:35:02,199 --> 00:35:03,439
along the border.
619
00:35:03,479 --> 00:35:08,199
Our company were tasked to put
these observation positions
620
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,720
along the border and we were
supposed to be waiting for the IRA
621
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,800
to come across the border
and mount these checkpoints,
622
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,359
and we were going to stop them,
623
00:35:17,399 --> 00:35:19,800
either by arresting them
or other means.
624
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:25,000
My group comprising three men,
another soldier,
625
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:28,840
Lance Corporal Gavin Deane,
who was in charge of us, and myself,
626
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,920
and we went to this scrapyard
literally on the border.
627
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,359
We found this old, derelict
rusty van
628
00:35:36,399 --> 00:35:38,119
that was quite close to the road,
629
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:39,560
so if anything happened,
630
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,840
we could get out of this van very
quickly to do what we needed to do.
631
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,399
Nothing happened the first night.
632
00:35:45,439 --> 00:35:47,239
Everything was quiet.
633
00:35:47,279 --> 00:35:50,920
And then on the second day
that we were there,
634
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,880
as dusk was approaching,
635
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,600
the sudden stillness and calm
of the Ulster midsummer's evening
636
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,000
was suddenly shattered by loud
firing from across the border.
637
00:36:04,359 --> 00:36:07,880
I returned fire as best I could
from where I thought they were.
638
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,920
And as I did that,
639
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,399
Lance Corporal Gavin Dean,
Deano, was hit.
640
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,239
I then ran out of ammunition.
641
00:36:16,279 --> 00:36:19,760
And I picked up the rifle
that Deano had had.
642
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,000
And then I was hit.
643
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:23,079
I didn't know at the time,
644
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:25,680
but I was hit in the spine
just below my neck.
645
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,000
The three soldiers were hiding
here in the corner of the scrapyard
646
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:30,680
when they came under fire.
647
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,760
Exactly what they were doing here
isn't clear,
648
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,159
but they may have been involved
649
00:36:34,199 --> 00:36:37,239
in some kind of SAS-type
undercover operation.
650
00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:42,000
Deano was shaking next to me in some
sort of violent spasm,
651
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:44,039
trying to fight for his life
652
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:48,399
and his foot was kicking
the side of my, side of my face.
653
00:36:48,439 --> 00:36:50,159
And it's something that...
654
00:36:51,319 --> 00:36:53,560
It's the sensation and feeling
that I'll never forget.
655
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,039
It's something that...
656
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:58,920
..I'll probably take with me
to my grave.
657
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,279
After a short while,
658
00:37:03,319 --> 00:37:06,600
half the British army sort of
descended on this particular point
659
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,039
on the border
and put Deano on a stretcher,
660
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:14,039
put me on a stretcher,
and then they flew us to Belfast.
661
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,720
And as we arrive there,
662
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,199
that's when Deano actually died,
just as we arrived.
663
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,239
So he died just before midnight
on the 16th of July, 1981.
664
00:37:27,279 --> 00:37:30,800
Later that day, they decided
to move me
665
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,279
to a better neurological facility
over in England.
666
00:37:35,319 --> 00:37:37,479
Must be very hard, being as young
as you are.
667
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,079
Then suddenly something like this
happens, and...?
668
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:42,239
Um...
669
00:37:43,399 --> 00:37:45,399
Yeah, well, I'm 20 years old now
670
00:37:45,439 --> 00:37:49,039
and that happened when I was 19,
so...
671
00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:51,920
I'm quite young.
672
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,720
But...
673
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,720
There's people were born with things
like me from the start.
674
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,079
I'm not that bad off.
675
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:00,960
How do you stay so cheerful?
676
00:38:02,359 --> 00:38:04,119
Well, I'm not in any pain.
677
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,239
So why not?
678
00:38:09,279 --> 00:38:12,119
The border is inside me
all the time.
679
00:38:12,159 --> 00:38:17,079
Everything I do now is affected
by that one moment in time.
680
00:38:23,399 --> 00:38:25,960
In an Irish tour, I always
try and include Belfast
681
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,880
and the North of Ireland.
682
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,720
After all, I lived there
for a while,
683
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,279
and I learned a lot playing
in the clubs there.
684
00:38:33,319 --> 00:38:35,760
So I have a certain home feeling for
the place.
685
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,439
Really, the only thing that kept
the island together
686
00:38:38,479 --> 00:38:41,479
in those years was music.
687
00:38:45,439 --> 00:38:47,199
He was the ultimate hero there,
688
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,439
and he did cross
that sectarian divide
689
00:38:50,479 --> 00:38:53,159
that was such a phenomenon
in Northern Ireland,
690
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,560
and in the context of the most
intense conflict,
691
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,720
people from both sides of the divide
came to see Rory
692
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,039
at those great gigs in
the Ulster Hall.
693
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,640
One sector of the economy
that seemed to be immune
694
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,399
from the violence and the mayhem
was the entertainment industry.
695
00:39:16,439 --> 00:39:17,880
Hello. Yes.
696
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,239
My name is Ardal,
and I know quite a lot.
697
00:39:21,279 --> 00:39:24,600
The stand-up comedian, I travelled
across the border regularly,
698
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,319
you know, while a lot of comedians
wouldn't go across the border,
699
00:39:28,359 --> 00:39:31,720
you know, during, like, intense
flash points
700
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,479
in the history of the Troubles.
701
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,920
You know, there were times,
there were periods of months,
702
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,000
maybe even years, where people just,
703
00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:41,319
you know, just didn't want
to take the chance of going over.
704
00:39:41,359 --> 00:39:45,279
I would relish the opportunity
to go to the north.
705
00:39:45,319 --> 00:39:48,279
I remember just the reception
I got when I stood on stage.
706
00:39:48,319 --> 00:39:49,720
I didn't have to do anything.
707
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,800
I didn't have to do any jokes,
really,
708
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,680
like, it was just the very fact that
you came, that you were there.
709
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,479
Thank you all very much indeed.
Thank you.
710
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,600
Oh, this is wonderful.
711
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,479
This is wonderful, I love it.
Anyway, hello!
712
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,520
So nothing would stop you.
crossing the border,
713
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,520
in fact, if there was trouble,
tension,
714
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,600
it made you all the more determined
715
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,439
to try and live as normal a life
as possible.
716
00:40:08,479 --> 00:40:10,680
You know, people
still wanted to go out
717
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,359
and have a good time, so I suppose
the biggest show in town
718
00:40:13,399 --> 00:40:15,159
in those days was the show bands.
719
00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:18,920
These were essentially cover bands
and, you know,
720
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,840
they travelled over and back across
the border at will.
721
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,000
And the biggest band in the mid-'70s
722
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:26,239
was a band called
The Miami Showband.
723
00:40:26,279 --> 00:40:29,039
# I didn't even know your name
724
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:34,079
# I didn't care cos I was sexy... #
725
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:36,680
I remember the Miami Showband
really vividly.
726
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:38,760
They were, you know, from Dublin,
727
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,680
but like all of those show bands,
they played everywhere,
728
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,880
and they just
treated the island as one place.
729
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,399
There was no sense that, you know,
730
00:40:45,439 --> 00:40:48,199
you were a Northern show band
or a Southern show band.
731
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,840
They just played whatever
dance halls were available.
732
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,319
They had a very charismatic lead
singer called Fran O'Toole
733
00:40:53,359 --> 00:40:56,159
who was writing his own songs
and he was a pin-up boy,
734
00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:58,239
a bit like David Cassidy or
something.
735
00:40:58,279 --> 00:41:00,479
# You gotta smile a little more... #
736
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,560
They were travelling back from
a gig back to Dublin
737
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,760
and they were stopped
at a checkpoint.
738
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,239
It looked like an army checkpoint
that they were stopped on,
739
00:41:11,279 --> 00:41:14,920
and they were told to get off
the minibus.
740
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,079
And they were lined up on the side
of the road
741
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:19,600
and they were joking,
at first, with the soldiers.
742
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,159
But they realised something
was slightly amiss.
743
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:23,720
And what happened was
744
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,840
people were planting a bomb on their
minibus
745
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,079
for reasons that are probably
going to sound very arcane,
746
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:33,880
and almost too farfetched for words.
747
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,560
But the idea was that the UVF
748
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,479
or the Protestant paramilitary
organisation
749
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,680
wanted to harden the border
750
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:42,560
to stop terrorists coming across
the border.
751
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,119
And I think they were trying
to illustrate the point by saying,
752
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:48,479
"Look, apparently innocent people
like the Miami Showband
753
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,079
"are smuggling bombs
across the border."
754
00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:52,720
So the idea was that
755
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,159
the Miami Showband would get back
on their bus,
756
00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:56,479
and that the bus would blow up
757
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,119
at some point further down the road,
758
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,520
and it would look like
they were smuggling bombs
759
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:02,840
across the border.
760
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,399
The bomb went off when they closed
761
00:42:06,439 --> 00:42:09,399
the back of the personnel van.
762
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:15,840
And instantly killed the two guys
that were standing at the van,
763
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,880
one of them that just pushed me.
764
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,760
When it transpired that
the objective was a complete
765
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,720
and utter cock-up on their part,
766
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,159
they decided to assassinate
the members of the band
767
00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:29,399
there and then on the side
of the road.
768
00:42:29,439 --> 00:42:31,520
Fran was the good-looking lead
singer.
769
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,640
And they shot him 22 times
in the face.
770
00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:41,159
They found the arm of one of the
bombers.
771
00:42:42,399 --> 00:42:45,079
It was obviously blown up
in the explosion,
772
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:47,279
and the arm had UVF tattoos.
773
00:42:47,319 --> 00:42:49,760
So that's pretty clear cut
that the person who was planting
774
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,760
the bomb was a self-styled member
775
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,600
of a Protestant paramilitary
organisation.
776
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,279
The murders of the Miami Showband
seemed to sound like
777
00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:02,279
a kind of deliberate attack
on that...
778
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,479
..fragile but beautiful texture
of everyday life.
779
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,119
You know, where people just
got on with living together
780
00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:11,479
in the same place
781
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,119
and having the same kind of
enjoyment,
782
00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,399
listening to the same
kind of music,
783
00:43:15,439 --> 00:43:17,760
flirting with members
of the opposite sex
784
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,760
from whatever denomination
they were.
785
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,560
That those murders really
just seemed
786
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,439
like a particularly brutal assault
787
00:43:25,479 --> 00:43:28,279
on the pleasures of daily life
788
00:43:28,319 --> 00:43:32,119
that had kept some sense of unity
together for people.
789
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,520
Colonel Prosser inspects
the Walls of Derry.
790
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,799
It's only the army
who go on the walls now.
791
00:43:43,839 --> 00:43:46,199
Before 1968,
it was a regular walking place
792
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:47,640
for the people.
793
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,999
How's the Bogside this morning?
794
00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:50,320
The walls were closed
795
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,440
because they were designed
only too well.
796
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,720
They overlook so much of
the surrounding city,
797
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,640
that they're ideal either for
sniping or observing.
798
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:05,039
This mural down here, it depicts
the innocents,
799
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:08,440
the innocent lives
lost in this war and in all wars.
800
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,480
But the images of a young woman
called Annette McGavigan
801
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,199
who lived up in this area,
802
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,199
and when she was coming home
from school,
803
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,919
she was shot by a British soldier
and killed in the Troubles.
804
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,239
There was a lot of innocent people,
children,
805
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,720
that got caught up in the Troubles.
806
00:44:28,839 --> 00:44:31,079
# Armoured cars and tanks and guns
807
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:33,400
# Came to take away our sons
808
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,440
# But every man will stand behind
809
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,079
# The men behind the wire
810
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:43,280
# Through the little streets of
Belfast
811
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,320
# In the dark of early morn
812
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,280
# Wrecking homes from early morning
813
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,079
# British soldiers...
814
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,360
# Armoured cars and tanks and guns
815
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,640
# Came to take away our sons
816
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,720
# But every man will stand behind
817
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,440
# The men behind the wire. #
818
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,919
This is the regular Saturday
afternoon shooting incident
819
00:45:07,959 --> 00:45:09,360
in Strabane.
820
00:45:13,839 --> 00:45:16,199
# Armoured cars and tanks and guns
821
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:17,959
# Came to take away our sons
822
00:45:17,999 --> 00:45:20,839
# Every man will stand behind
823
00:45:20,879 --> 00:45:24,799
# The man behind the wire. #
824
00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:27,119
APPLAUSE
825
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,480
A bomb exploded near the war
memorial
826
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,799
in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh.
827
00:45:31,839 --> 00:45:34,959
The crowd which had gathered there
was given no warning.
828
00:45:34,999 --> 00:45:38,360
They were civilians, Catholic
and Protestant, young and old,
829
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,799
there with their wreaths to
remember.
830
00:45:40,839 --> 00:45:43,839
There were a number of staging posts
in atrocity...
831
00:45:43,879 --> 00:45:45,159
Actually on the border.
832
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:48,839
..where the legitimacy
of the IRA's campaign
833
00:45:48,879 --> 00:45:53,640
was being fundamentally questioned
by the very community
834
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,039
on whose behalf it was supposed to
be waged,
835
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:58,560
which were, you know,
Northern Catholics.
836
00:46:00,879 --> 00:46:04,520
Patsy had his own business
when we were married.
837
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,560
He had a mobile fruit and vegetable
van
838
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,239
and he went bankrupt
in this business.
839
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,760
So he took a job with the army
840
00:46:13,799 --> 00:46:15,799
because it was the only thing
available
841
00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:17,199
here in Derry at the time.
842
00:46:20,119 --> 00:46:21,199
The IRA...
843
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,440
..let themselves into the house.
844
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,959
Somebody ran up and stuck
something at my neck.
845
00:46:26,999 --> 00:46:29,640
I was told, "If you do what
you're told, nobody will get hurt."
846
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,720
And Patsy put his arms around me
847
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,199
and he says,
"Everything'll be OK, girl,
848
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,640
"I'll be back soon."
849
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,760
Even if someone was a Catholic,
it didn't make any difference.
850
00:46:38,799 --> 00:46:43,600
They were still considered
as legitimate targets by the IRA.
851
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,999
They took him across the border
to where they had the safe house
852
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:49,799
and where the van was.
853
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,199
They chained Patsy...
854
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,959
..to the controls of the van.
855
00:46:57,999 --> 00:47:02,079
I will surmise that he knew
by this time he was going to die.
856
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:04,360
Because, as they went across
the border,
857
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,720
they couldn't stay
in the car with their masks on.
858
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,879
So it's quite possible that Patsy
recognised them,
859
00:47:09,919 --> 00:47:13,239
or would have recognised them at
a future time.
860
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:18,119
So he knew from midnight on,
until the explosion at 4.00AM,
861
00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:21,159
for four hours,
that he was going to die.
862
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:23,879
The Coshquin Checkpoint outside
Londonderry
863
00:47:23,919 --> 00:47:26,039
was a heavily fortified
Army position
864
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:28,680
guarding one of the main crossing
points on the border
865
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,680
between Northern Ireland
and the Irish Republic.
866
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,079
Afterwards, all that was left
was a pile of rubble.
867
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:38,959
I've had evidence from surviving
soldiers...
868
00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:42,480
..that Patsy saved lives that night.
869
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,959
Which is something
that I'm very proud of,
870
00:47:49,999 --> 00:47:53,839
because, with him being chained
into the van,
871
00:47:53,879 --> 00:47:58,119
he obviously knew he wasn't
getting out.
872
00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:01,560
He wasn't going to get out
alive, but he shouted,
873
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,600
as soon as he stopped the van,
874
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,039
he shouted, "Run, lads, I'm loaded."
875
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:11,720
The murder of Patsy Gillespie
was a particularly grotesque moment,
876
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,400
even, you know, we got
used to atrocity,
877
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,560
but this moment seems like one
878
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,199
that there was just a darkness
to it.
879
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,199
And you thought, "It's almost
like this darkness is emanating
880
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,440
"out of something beyond
the immediate,
881
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,280
"you know, that it's as if all
of this toxicity
882
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,919
"which has been built up
in this landscape for so long
883
00:48:33,959 --> 00:48:37,839
"is expressing itself in something
as horrible as this."
884
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,079
Right, do you know what?
885
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:53,039
It has to be somewhere along
this part of the road
886
00:48:53,079 --> 00:48:56,360
because this
is the Coshquin Road.
887
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,280
So it's somewhere...
888
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,680
on that stretch.
889
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,400
By the powers of deduction,
890
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,119
having never had to really think
about it before,
891
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:12,879
I reckon that this is the point
892
00:49:12,919 --> 00:49:15,199
where the North meets the South.
893
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,199
When the word came through
894
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,560
that Patsy Gillespie
and those five soldiers
895
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,680
down at Coshquin had
been killed in the bomb,
896
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:25,959
you have to, you think about it.
897
00:49:25,999 --> 00:49:29,720
Bombs weren't unusual,
horrific deaths weren't unusual.
898
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,879
That was the norm for us here.
899
00:49:31,919 --> 00:49:35,079
But there was something
about the fact
900
00:49:35,119 --> 00:49:38,360
that my organisation
had taken this man from his home,
901
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,039
held his family hostage,
902
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:41,879
but chained him in the van
903
00:49:41,919 --> 00:49:43,680
where he had no escape,
904
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:46,159
then remote control the explosion.
905
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,600
And I was a member
of the organisation at that time.
906
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,799
But when the news came through,
my stomach hit the floor.
907
00:49:54,839 --> 00:49:59,239
My heart was ready to burst
and I cried.
908
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,879
And I thought, "What the hell
have we become?"
909
00:50:01,919 --> 00:50:04,999
Oh, there has to be a better
way than this.
910
00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:08,119
I remember being in the kitchen
and my parents,
911
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:11,079
nobody knew, none of my family
knew that I was in the IRA,
912
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:15,119
I'm leading this
massive, secret double life.
913
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:18,959
And my daddy had his hands
on the counter in the kitchen
914
00:50:18,999 --> 00:50:21,839
and the news was on the radio
and TV,
915
00:50:21,879 --> 00:50:24,239
and I remember saying
to me Daddy,
916
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,320
"Daddy, that's not what we're about,
is it?"
917
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,400
And he said, "No, that's not what
we're about."
918
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,440
It was after Patsy's death
more than anything,
919
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,239
that my involvement with the IRA
just dissipated.
920
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,560
And, eventually, I would leave Derry
and move to Limerick.
921
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,239
The horror at the murder
of Patsy Gillespie
922
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,799
definitely did create
a revulsion that...
923
00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:50,400
..in the long term, the IRA
and Sinn Fein had to respond to.
924
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,119
CHEERING
925
00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:53,320
Sinn Fein leaders will meet
926
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,600
the Irish Prime Minister
Bertie Ahern tomorrow
927
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,640
to discuss the state
of the peace process.
928
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,079
There's been reports of divisions
within the IRA
929
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:01,600
over how best to proceed.
930
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,879
When the Labour Party get in,
one thing that they had
931
00:51:04,919 --> 00:51:06,199
was a huge majority.
932
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,560
And history had taught us,
not just in Ireland but elsewhere,
933
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,400
that it didn't depend
on what their politics was,
934
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:17,119
but that they had the strength
behind them to make big steps.
935
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:21,159
An historic agreement for peace
in Northern Ireland has been reached
936
00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:23,119
within the past few minutes.
937
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:25,199
We can see pictures now
from Stormont,
938
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,360
where the leaders
of the eight parties
939
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,079
which have been involved in
the talks,
940
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,400
together with the Prime Ministers
of the United Kingdom
941
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,119
and the Republic of Ireland
are announcing details
942
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:39,320
of an agreement which is intended
to end nearly 30 years of conflict
943
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,959
and which have cost
more than 3,000 lives.
944
00:51:42,999 --> 00:51:45,159
I never thought in my lifetime
I would see it,
945
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:46,999
but what we were talking about here
946
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:48,760
is something as mammoth as the
collapse
947
00:51:48,799 --> 00:51:49,879
of the Berlin Wall.
948
00:51:49,919 --> 00:51:51,360
I just remember celebrating wildly
949
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,159
when the Good Friday Agreement
was signed.
950
00:51:53,199 --> 00:51:55,839
I mean, it was right up there
as one of the great occasions
951
00:51:55,879 --> 00:51:57,119
in recent Irish history.
952
00:51:57,159 --> 00:51:59,799
I mean, it was like, it was like
the birth of a child or something,
953
00:51:59,839 --> 00:52:02,079
or it was like, you know,
Ireland winning the World Cup.
954
00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:06,320
It was like, it was
an extraordinary occasion.
955
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,159
Every household in Northern Ireland,
including mine, was sent a copy
956
00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:12,999
of the Good Friday Agreement.
957
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:15,799
It set out a plan to disarm the men
of violence,
958
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:18,480
release paramilitary prisoners,
959
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,159
and for both sides
to share power in government.
960
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:23,839
And then we voted on it.
961
00:52:23,879 --> 00:52:26,520
The people of Northern Ireland
had until half an hour ago
962
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,480
to decide whether they're prepared
to do
963
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,159
what everyone from the
President of the United States
964
00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:33,360
through Prime Ministers in London
and Dublin
965
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,440
and most political leaders here want
them to do
966
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,239
and endorse the Good Friday
Peace Agreement.
967
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,039
The Northern Ireland Referendum,
968
00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:44,039
the 22nd of May, 1998...
969
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,600
I hereby give...
970
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,159
I hereby give notice...
971
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,839
..that the percentage of votes
given
972
00:52:51,879 --> 00:52:54,280
at the Referendum was as follows...
973
00:52:56,199 --> 00:52:57,480
Yes.
974
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,440
71.12%.
975
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,760
CHEERING
976
00:53:03,799 --> 00:53:06,400
The other brilliant thing
about the Good Friday Agreement
977
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,280
was you were allowed to choose
978
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,239
whatever nationality
you wanted to be.
979
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,400
You could choose to be Irish
in Northern Ireland
980
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,119
or you could choose to be British
in Northern Ireland
981
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:18,959
or, like me, you could choose to be
both.
982
00:53:18,999 --> 00:53:20,760
When you see the prisoners,
983
00:53:20,799 --> 00:53:23,280
and you know that some of the things
that they have done,
984
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,039
coming out of prison,
985
00:53:25,079 --> 00:53:26,799
big smiles and handshakes,
986
00:53:26,839 --> 00:53:29,400
you sort of think, "You know, this,
this isn't right,"
987
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,039
but the more I thought about it,
the more I thought,
988
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:33,199
"No, this is right.
989
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,360
"This is the way to go forward."
990
00:53:38,919 --> 00:53:40,640
When the army is off the border,
991
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,480
when the watchtowers are taken
down, the miracle happens.
992
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,360
The border doesn't disappear,
993
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,239
but it just becomes irrelevant
994
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,680
and it really meant that vast
numbers of people on the island
995
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,400
could just get about the business
of living.
996
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,879
When I came back to settle in Derry
in 2001,
997
00:53:57,919 --> 00:54:00,919
I didn't realise that I had a lot
of stuff inside,
998
00:54:00,959 --> 00:54:03,640
a lot of stuff that I hadn't
dealt with.
999
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,720
So I went down the road of peace
and reconciliation
1000
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,400
and would come to dialogue with
Patsy Gillespie's wife.
1001
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,600
I knew when the group met up,
1002
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,680
that one of them was an ex-IRA woman
1003
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:19,720
and I was curious to meet her.
1004
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,839
That first meeting of all of us
women together
1005
00:54:21,879 --> 00:54:23,560
was unbelievably nerve-racking.
1006
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,239
I was nearly sick, because now,
for the first time
1007
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,799
I would be telling who I was.
1008
00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:31,879
I was 13 when
the Hunger Strikes began,
1009
00:54:31,919 --> 00:54:34,119
and that was all anyone
talked about.
1010
00:54:34,159 --> 00:54:36,480
I could have told you the names
and times of death
1011
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,400
of each of the Hunger Strikers.
1012
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,199
They were our saviours, our heroes,
our protectors,
1013
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:42,879
in my eyes, they could do no wrong.
1014
00:54:42,919 --> 00:54:44,720
Before I turned to Kathleen,
and I thought,
1015
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,079
"Whatever this woman
has to say to me,
1016
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:50,760
"whatever this woman has to do,
I'm just going to take it,"
1017
00:54:50,799 --> 00:54:52,600
and I was prepared for grief
1018
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,239
because I had heard that Kathleen
was a tough cookie.
1019
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,839
And when I turned round,
she put her arms round me
1020
00:54:57,879 --> 00:54:59,560
and she gave me a big, massive hug.
1021
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,119
And sometimes I get emotional
when I tell this bit of the story,
1022
00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:03,720
and she says,
"We're going to be OK."
1023
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:11,600
If you look at the two extremes
of myself whose husband was murdered
1024
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,239
so wickedly by the IRA,
just so brutally.
1025
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,760
And I'm best friends with an ex-IRA
woman.
1026
00:55:18,799 --> 00:55:21,199
We are the embodiment...
1027
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:24,760
..of what can be.
1028
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,799
But I will never ever forgive
the IRA,
1029
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:33,720
because they just tore my life
and my family's apart.
1030
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,320
I mean, Patsy wasn't there for his
daughter's wedding.
1031
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,199
Patsy should have been there
for that.
1032
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,079
People on the outside, they thought,
"Oh, they have a ceasefire
1033
00:55:50,119 --> 00:55:51,879
"and they have a peace process.
1034
00:55:51,919 --> 00:55:53,520
"And so that's all that sorted.
1035
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,680
"Now, we don't have to worry
about Northern Ireland any more."
1036
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:58,480
But it's not sorted.
1037
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,680
It's not by a long way sorted.
1038
00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:07,119
This attack has been linked
to the dissident Republican group
1039
00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:09,320
known as the New IRA,
1040
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,799
prescribed organization
which aims to bring about
1041
00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:14,079
a United Ireland.
1042
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:16,839
Northern Ireland has a long
way to go yet.
1043
00:56:16,879 --> 00:56:19,039
People go to their own churches,
their own schools,
1044
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:21,959
their own community centres, their
own pubs,
1045
00:56:21,999 --> 00:56:23,360
they live in their own areas,
1046
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,680
and it may as well be down
a racial line.
1047
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,400
The one thing we absolutely
definitely know as a matter of fact
1048
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,520
about the Irish border is
it is unpolice-able.
1049
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,600
Nobody has ever been able
to control it,
1050
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,959
and nobody ever will be able
to control it.
1051
00:56:43,999 --> 00:56:45,079
We simply know that
1052
00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:47,720
if you put up any physical
infrastructure,
1053
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,079
it will become a magnet
for attack.
1054
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:53,839
Don't put everyone through all
this again.
1055
00:56:53,879 --> 00:56:57,320
You know what happened
all those years ago, you know...
1056
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,119
..with the border posts and all the
checks and everything
1057
00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:03,760
out on the border.
1058
00:57:03,799 --> 00:57:06,560
Don't put us through that again
because too many lives were lost,
1059
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,760
too many people were broken.
1060
00:57:08,799 --> 00:57:11,119
Are we all fine?
Are we all over it?
1061
00:57:11,159 --> 00:57:14,440
Is it all out of our systems?
1062
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,159
I mean, there is a theory
that the entire country
1063
00:57:18,199 --> 00:57:21,119
of Northern Ireland suffers
from post-traumatic stress disorder.
1064
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:22,320
Is that true?
1065
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,480
I don't know.
1066
00:57:25,999 --> 00:57:28,760
There's some talk now if
the border comes back,
1067
00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:30,520
that there's a possibility
1068
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,839
that they could be spoiling it
again.
1069
00:57:32,879 --> 00:57:34,520
But I'll tell you one thing,
1070
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,879
I'll not be involved in
anything like that again.
1071
00:57:36,919 --> 00:57:38,560
Not for a minute.
1072
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,440
You could have been shot.
You could have been shot.
1073
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,280
But I survived or I wouldn't be
talking to you.
85900
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