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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:01.035 --> 00:00:03.908 [dramatic music] 2 00:00:03.975 --> 00:00:09.686 ♪♪ ♪♪ 3 00:00:12.024 --> 00:00:14.495 - I had a great marriage. 4 00:00:14.562 --> 00:00:18.871 You don't realize how quickly life can change. 5 00:00:18.938 --> 00:00:22.613 - Teacher of the Year is now charged with sex crimes. 6 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:25.084 JENIFER: Sexual assault of a student. 7 00:00:25.151 --> 00:00:27.387 - How could that possibly be true? 8 00:00:27.454 --> 00:00:29.593 JENIFER: I get into his email. 9 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:32.799 There's a photo of a woman, half naked. 10 00:00:32.866 --> 00:00:35.972 Prostitutes, escorts... 11 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.042 His other life 12 00:00:38.109 --> 00:00:41.382 was devious and deceptive. 13 00:00:45.123 --> 00:00:47.461 There was nothing about this that was love. 14 00:00:47.996 --> 00:00:50.534 KIM WIGINGTON: Slowly I just began to realize, 15 00:00:50.601 --> 00:00:56.078 if he is this addicted, yes, he did it. 16 00:00:56.145 --> 00:00:57.381 He had sex with a student. 17 00:00:58.517 --> 00:01:02.792 - Spencer escalated so much in his behaviors 18 00:01:02.859 --> 00:01:05.430 that he became a predator and a criminal. 19 00:01:11.376 --> 00:01:12.979 - Well, that former Teacher of the Year right here 20 00:01:13.046 --> 00:01:15.250 in jail tonight, the allegations 21 00:01:15.317 --> 00:01:17.789 from groping to sex with students. 22 00:01:20.661 --> 00:01:22.264 JENIFER: Rachel is the name of the former student 23 00:01:22.331 --> 00:01:24.034 who came forward with allegations 24 00:01:24.101 --> 00:01:25.037 against Spencer Herron 25 00:01:25.104 --> 00:01:26.874 that led to his arrest. 26 00:01:26.940 --> 00:01:29.846 ANDREA: Any case that involves a minor 27 00:01:29.913 --> 00:01:33.386 is usually closed, so we never had any intention 28 00:01:33.453 --> 00:01:37.428 of interviewing Rachel for the podcast, 29 00:01:37.494 --> 00:01:40.969 because we wanted to protect her anonymity. 30 00:01:41.036 --> 00:01:43.272 But we reached out to her civil attorney. 31 00:01:43.339 --> 00:01:45.544 He thought that potentially, 32 00:01:45.611 --> 00:01:48.316 Rachel would be interested in talking. 33 00:01:48.383 --> 00:01:52.491 She agreed to sit down and do a formal interview. 34 00:02:22.752 --> 00:02:24.889 [dramatic music] 35 00:02:27.896 --> 00:02:30.735 [dramatic music] 36 00:02:30.802 --> 00:02:32.004 [shattering glass] 37 00:02:32.071 --> 00:02:37.615 ♪♪ ♪♪ 38 00:02:39.886 --> 00:02:43.493 - One of the positive things that has come from the podcast 39 00:02:43.561 --> 00:02:47.769 is being asked to, um, do some speaking engagements. 40 00:02:47.836 --> 00:02:50.541 So Rachel and I were asked to come and speak 41 00:02:50.608 --> 00:02:52.110 to the criminology department 42 00:02:52.177 --> 00:02:55.283 at the University of North Georgia in Dahlonega. 43 00:02:58.256 --> 00:03:00.260 The brave soul that came forward 44 00:03:00.326 --> 00:03:01.530 and reported the abuse 45 00:03:01.597 --> 00:03:03.667 she endured by her trusted teacher 46 00:03:03.734 --> 00:03:07.241 reclaimed her voice and said, "No more." 47 00:03:07.307 --> 00:03:09.780 She was the victim of my ex-husband's 48 00:03:09.847 --> 00:03:12.151 despicable crimes. 49 00:03:12.217 --> 00:03:15.958 But more importantly, she's a survivor, 50 00:03:16.025 --> 00:03:17.929 and Rachel is my friend. 51 00:03:17.996 --> 00:03:19.999 Come on up, Rachel. 52 00:03:20.066 --> 00:03:23.239 [applause] 53 00:03:26.312 --> 00:03:28.951 - Thank you, Jenifer. 54 00:03:29.017 --> 00:03:31.089 This was me at 15 years old. 55 00:03:31.156 --> 00:03:34.395 I was a shy kid who focused on doing good in school. 56 00:03:34.461 --> 00:03:36.332 I was just opening up and expanding 57 00:03:36.399 --> 00:03:38.036 my friend group at this time. 58 00:03:38.103 --> 00:03:40.407 ANDREA: She met him at video production class, 59 00:03:40.473 --> 00:03:42.311 sophomore year. 60 00:03:42.377 --> 00:03:45.585 And through that program, she got to know him 61 00:03:45.652 --> 00:03:47.589 and feel safe with him. 62 00:03:47.655 --> 00:03:51.462 - So I'm Spencer Herron, the video teacher here at Kell. 63 00:03:57.775 --> 00:04:02.986 - So many people, faculty, students, respected him. 64 00:04:03.052 --> 00:04:05.424 As a colleague, as a mentor, 65 00:04:05.491 --> 00:04:07.662 he meant a lot to this community. 66 00:04:09.198 --> 00:04:13.373 MICHIKA: I graduated Kell High School in 2008. 67 00:04:13.440 --> 00:04:15.745 Coach Herron was called Coach 68 00:04:15.812 --> 00:04:18.382 because he was the girls' soccer coach. 69 00:04:18.449 --> 00:04:19.719 - Attention all soccer players. 70 00:04:19.786 --> 00:04:21.690 To be in shape, possibly for tryouts, 71 00:04:21.757 --> 00:04:24.294 attending workouts after school is highly recommended. 72 00:04:24.361 --> 00:04:26.566 MICHIKA: But I knew Coach Herron 73 00:04:26.633 --> 00:04:29.138 as my video production teacher. 74 00:04:29.204 --> 00:04:32.478 - When I'm not missing my seniors in my video class, 75 00:04:32.545 --> 00:04:37.053 you know, you know I'm watching Unbelievabeef, last episode. 76 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:41.563 MICHIKA: He was definitely viewed as the cool teacher. 77 00:04:41.630 --> 00:04:44.636 Everybody wanted to take his class. 78 00:04:44.702 --> 00:04:46.974 Video production definitely was my favorite class, 79 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:49.546 and he was my favorite teacher for sure. 80 00:04:51.383 --> 00:04:55.925 His class felt like a break from the regular school day. 81 00:04:55.992 --> 00:04:58.998 RACHEL: This was a post I made on social media. 82 00:04:59.065 --> 00:05:00.568 But little did I know that this was the day 83 00:05:00.635 --> 00:05:02.739 that would change my life forever. 84 00:05:02.806 --> 00:05:05.511 I joined a club, a club called Drone Club. 85 00:05:05.578 --> 00:05:08.518 And it was started by my video-audio teacher, 86 00:05:08.584 --> 00:05:10.053 Spencer Herron. 87 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:11.523 It started out small, and I was 88 00:05:11.590 --> 00:05:13.259 the first girl to join. 89 00:05:13.326 --> 00:05:17.034 We met once a week after school, every Thursday. 90 00:05:17.101 --> 00:05:18.236 And this was my outlet. 91 00:05:18.302 --> 00:05:20.173 I actually enjoyed it. 92 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:23.112 MATT: Spencer had these clubs. 93 00:05:23.179 --> 00:05:25.450 The drone one was the only one that I really heard 94 00:05:25.518 --> 00:05:26.754 that kids were doing much with, 95 00:05:26.820 --> 00:05:28.023 but all I believe they were doing 96 00:05:28.089 --> 00:05:29.058 was just playing with drones 97 00:05:29.124 --> 00:05:31.495 on the football field. 98 00:05:31.563 --> 00:05:33.065 RACHEL: We had a group chat 99 00:05:33.132 --> 00:05:35.370 that we basically talked about music, 100 00:05:35.437 --> 00:05:38.644 movies and films, and it all changed one afternoon, 101 00:05:38.711 --> 00:05:40.046 when Herron asked to have 102 00:05:40.113 --> 00:05:42.484 each of our own numbers individually 103 00:05:42.552 --> 00:05:44.556 after hearing about our group chat. 104 00:05:44.623 --> 00:05:46.894 His reasoning was something like 105 00:05:46.960 --> 00:05:48.597 we had to let him know if we couldn't make it 106 00:05:48.664 --> 00:05:49.900 to that week's meeting or not. 107 00:05:49.967 --> 00:05:51.637 But he did this with everyone, 108 00:05:51.703 --> 00:05:54.743 so I thought this was okay, surely. 109 00:05:54.810 --> 00:05:57.214 That is, until I started receiving text messages 110 00:05:57.281 --> 00:05:58.918 from him directly. 111 00:05:58.985 --> 00:06:01.690 ANDREA: A lot of it was just about the Drone Club, 112 00:06:01.756 --> 00:06:03.995 equipment and checking in and checking out. 113 00:06:04.061 --> 00:06:07.702 Everything was so casual. 114 00:06:07.769 --> 00:06:09.438 Boundaries were being lowered. 115 00:06:09.506 --> 00:06:12.377 Then the text exchanges with Rachel 116 00:06:12.444 --> 00:06:15.985 started to change in tone. 117 00:06:16.052 --> 00:06:18.022 They would talk about movies, talk about music, 118 00:06:18.089 --> 00:06:22.164 and share personal, intimate details about their life. 119 00:06:22.230 --> 00:06:25.103 RACHEL: He complimented my work and my music taste. 120 00:06:25.169 --> 00:06:28.476 Finding any commonalities we had was his goal. 121 00:06:28.543 --> 00:06:31.215 I liked a band, he loved that band. 122 00:06:31.282 --> 00:06:33.119 I liked this movie, 123 00:06:33.186 --> 00:06:36.325 well, conveniently, he just watched it that day. 124 00:06:36.392 --> 00:06:39.365 "Double take," I remember him texting me 125 00:06:39.431 --> 00:06:41.302 one day after school, 126 00:06:41.369 --> 00:06:43.006 which followed with a screenshot 127 00:06:43.073 --> 00:06:45.444 of a social media profile pic that I had posted 128 00:06:45.511 --> 00:06:46.846 previously beforehand. 129 00:06:46.913 --> 00:06:50.353 This is when the compliments on my looks began. 130 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:52.024 He'd say some things like, 131 00:06:52.091 --> 00:06:54.529 how could someone so pretty and so smart 132 00:06:54.596 --> 00:06:56.466 not have a boyfriend? 133 00:06:56.533 --> 00:06:59.940 I was flattered by the compliments. 134 00:07:00.007 --> 00:07:03.681 I was a teenager who was very insecure about herself, 135 00:07:03.748 --> 00:07:05.551 and it was something that he saw 136 00:07:05.618 --> 00:07:06.620 and that he took advantage of. 137 00:07:06.686 --> 00:07:08.857 [ominous music] 138 00:07:08.924 --> 00:07:10.794 There were the beginning stages 139 00:07:10.861 --> 00:07:12.866 of this predatory communication. 140 00:07:12.932 --> 00:07:14.936 And this would evolve into something 141 00:07:15.003 --> 00:07:16.740 that you see right in front of you. 142 00:07:16.806 --> 00:07:18.711 It's my facial expression, as you can see. 143 00:07:18.777 --> 00:07:20.915 And the other faces you can't see-- 144 00:07:20.982 --> 00:07:24.154 they're smiling, but I wasn't. 145 00:07:24.221 --> 00:07:26.358 And the reality is, is because he was touching me 146 00:07:26.425 --> 00:07:27.795 in that photo. 147 00:07:29.265 --> 00:07:30.901 No one else saw it. 148 00:07:39.619 --> 00:07:42.558 [dramatic music] 149 00:07:42.625 --> 00:07:44.027 ♪♪ ♪♪ 150 00:07:44.094 --> 00:07:47.267 - It started with subtle touches here and there, 151 00:07:47.333 --> 00:07:49.839 putting away equipment at the end of class 152 00:07:49.906 --> 00:07:51.643 and briefly touching my hand. 153 00:07:53.446 --> 00:07:56.753 Passing my seat and quickly touching my hair. 154 00:07:59.726 --> 00:08:02.030 - And then one day, he said he had feelings for her. 155 00:08:04.268 --> 00:08:06.707 He said, "Let's just have a conversation 156 00:08:06.773 --> 00:08:09.712 and address it" after school one day. 157 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:12.651 She goes and finds him to talk about the fact 158 00:08:12.718 --> 00:08:15.290 that he has these big feelings for her. 159 00:08:15.356 --> 00:08:18.296 [desolate music] 160 00:08:18.363 --> 00:08:19.632 ♪♪ ♪♪ 161 00:08:31.756 --> 00:08:34.596 ANDREA: At this point, she is a virgin. 162 00:08:34.662 --> 00:08:37.434 She doesn't have a ton of romantic history. 163 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:42.879 And she is facing this adult who has a wealth of knowledge 164 00:08:42.945 --> 00:08:44.816 and experience in that area. 165 00:08:47.121 --> 00:08:49.225 RACHEL: When there's a position of power, 166 00:08:49.291 --> 00:08:50.894 there is no consent at all. 167 00:08:50.961 --> 00:08:53.534 The reality is that teenagers and children 168 00:08:53.601 --> 00:08:55.805 don't know how to say no. 169 00:08:55.872 --> 00:08:59.010 Or they don't know that they can even say no. 170 00:08:59.077 --> 00:09:00.748 ANDREA: That made her uncomfortable. 171 00:09:00.815 --> 00:09:03.286 But this well-respected teacher, 172 00:09:03.352 --> 00:09:08.029 if he is coming to me saying, "I'm in love with you, 173 00:09:08.096 --> 00:09:11.603 this is meant to be," he must really love me. 174 00:09:11.670 --> 00:09:13.840 She believed him. 175 00:09:36.051 --> 00:09:38.256 ANDREA: But it had to be kept secret. 176 00:09:38.322 --> 00:09:40.226 She had to change his name in her phone 177 00:09:40.293 --> 00:09:43.032 to the name of one of her friends. 178 00:09:43.099 --> 00:09:44.836 She was really close with her family. 179 00:09:44.903 --> 00:09:47.240 She was lying to her parents. 180 00:09:48.811 --> 00:09:51.750 RAMANI: Secret keeping creates a false sense of intimacy 181 00:09:51.817 --> 00:09:53.219 between two people. 182 00:09:53.285 --> 00:09:55.725 This relationship we're experiencing together 183 00:09:55.792 --> 00:09:56.826 is special. 184 00:09:56.893 --> 00:09:58.564 Most people wanna be 185 00:09:58.630 --> 00:10:00.166 a part of something special. 186 00:10:32.632 --> 00:10:35.938 - It becomes clear, even with a vulnerable person, 187 00:10:36.005 --> 00:10:37.541 that something's not right here. 188 00:10:37.608 --> 00:10:40.413 Now the person in this kind of relationship 189 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.117 is actually somewhat trapped. 190 00:10:42.184 --> 00:10:43.854 They feel, "Where can I go with this? 191 00:10:43.921 --> 00:10:46.025 "I can't tell anyone this, 192 00:10:46.092 --> 00:10:48.095 "because if I tell somebody this, 193 00:10:48.162 --> 00:10:50.868 "someone's gonna get in trouble, I could look bad, 194 00:10:50.935 --> 00:10:52.872 "this could hurt me and other opportunities. 195 00:10:52.939 --> 00:10:54.475 My parents may get mad." 196 00:10:54.542 --> 00:10:58.016 Or, most importantly, "Nobody's gonna believe me." 197 00:10:58.082 --> 00:11:01.222 - I went from a happy, carefree, and hopeful teenager 198 00:11:01.289 --> 00:11:04.394 to a cynical, angry, and depressed one. 199 00:11:04.461 --> 00:11:08.268 I completely shut myself out from people. 200 00:11:08.335 --> 00:11:11.576 I withdrew from my family and my friends. 201 00:11:11.643 --> 00:11:14.014 And by the time I was a senior, 202 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:15.383 I had no communication with anyone 203 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:17.722 that I was involved with at school. 204 00:11:17.788 --> 00:11:21.863 I felt like I wasn't deserving of anything good in my life. 205 00:11:21.930 --> 00:11:23.600 ANDREA: At some point, you start to feel like, 206 00:11:23.667 --> 00:11:25.704 "If this is a truly loving relationship, 207 00:11:25.771 --> 00:11:27.040 "I wanna be able to share that 208 00:11:27.107 --> 00:11:28.242 "with the other people in my life, 209 00:11:28.309 --> 00:11:29.579 the people that I love." 210 00:11:29.646 --> 00:11:33.754 And when you can't share that, that starts to feel wrong. 211 00:11:33.821 --> 00:11:35.457 [uneasy music] 212 00:11:35.525 --> 00:11:37.828 RACHEL: I hated holding something like this 213 00:11:37.895 --> 00:11:40.500 from my parents. I felt dirty. 214 00:11:40.567 --> 00:11:43.373 What would others think of me if I came out about this? 215 00:11:43.439 --> 00:11:45.243 Would my parents hate me? 216 00:11:45.310 --> 00:11:48.349 I would see them sitting at a table, 217 00:11:48.415 --> 00:11:51.455 and I would just imagine myself coming out to them 218 00:11:51.523 --> 00:11:54.061 and telling them the truth of what was going on. 219 00:11:54.128 --> 00:11:56.800 But, um, I was held back by the thought of shame 220 00:11:56.867 --> 00:11:59.138 and not being accepted. 221 00:11:59.204 --> 00:12:01.643 And then I realized how I felt for the past couple of years 222 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:03.446 wasn't right. 223 00:12:03.514 --> 00:12:05.884 ANDREA: Rachel's relationship with Spencer 224 00:12:05.951 --> 00:12:09.424 spanned about three years. 225 00:12:09.491 --> 00:12:12.731 But her senior year, he was deployed. 226 00:12:12.798 --> 00:12:15.537 And it was the first time that Rachel felt 227 00:12:15.604 --> 00:12:17.875 this sense of relief. 228 00:12:26.693 --> 00:12:28.228 I wasn't being watched, 229 00:12:28.295 --> 00:12:29.732 and I wasn't being controlled anymore. 230 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:31.202 I wasn't under his thumb. 231 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.305 This gave me the clarity I needed 232 00:12:33.372 --> 00:12:36.546 to see how things weren't right: 233 00:12:36.613 --> 00:12:39.986 the depression, uh, angry all the time for no reason. 234 00:12:40.053 --> 00:12:41.990 Then I just couldn't take it anymore. 235 00:12:42.056 --> 00:12:44.127 [dramatic music] 236 00:12:44.194 --> 00:12:46.398 ANDREA: He would brag to Rachel 237 00:12:46.465 --> 00:12:49.839 about having other relationships. 238 00:12:49.906 --> 00:12:53.747 At one point, he shared with her a story 239 00:12:53.813 --> 00:12:55.851 about having a threesome. 240 00:12:55.918 --> 00:12:58.055 And one day, she was in a class 241 00:12:58.122 --> 00:13:00.326 where they were talking about STDs. 242 00:13:11.248 --> 00:13:12.819 - And that's when she decided 243 00:13:12.885 --> 00:13:14.354 that she needed to tell her parents. 244 00:13:17.194 --> 00:13:20.000 - I sat my mom down on Mother's Day of 2018 245 00:13:20.066 --> 00:13:21.970 and told her initially that I was afraid 246 00:13:22.036 --> 00:13:23.840 I potentially had an STD. 247 00:13:25.410 --> 00:13:28.851 She'd asked if I had had sex with a boy from school. 248 00:13:28.917 --> 00:13:33.125 I told her no, and then I said his name, Coach Herron. 249 00:13:33.192 --> 00:13:35.831 I will never forget the look on her face 250 00:13:35.897 --> 00:13:37.769 when I told her his name. 251 00:13:37.835 --> 00:13:40.574 [dramatic music] 252 00:13:40.641 --> 00:13:42.545 She told me, "I have to tell your dad." 253 00:13:42.612 --> 00:13:44.448 And out of embarrassment, I cried, 254 00:13:44.515 --> 00:13:47.120 and I pleaded with her, and I said, "Don't tell him." 255 00:13:47.187 --> 00:13:50.192 She went ahead and took my dad aside 256 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:52.799 and said that they had to go for a drive. 257 00:13:52.865 --> 00:13:56.773 And I didn't see them for hours after that. 258 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:58.877 To this day, I never asked how that drive went 259 00:13:58.944 --> 00:14:00.714 between my mom and my dad. 260 00:14:00.781 --> 00:14:03.620 They came back home, and they both sat me down and said 261 00:14:03.687 --> 00:14:04.722 I needed to go to the police. 262 00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:07.126 And all I could say was "Okay." 263 00:14:09.064 --> 00:14:11.235 - A Cobb County Teacher of the Year nominee 264 00:14:11.301 --> 00:14:13.707 accused of sexual assault involving a student. 265 00:14:13.773 --> 00:14:16.879 REPORTER: This is the mug shot of 48-year-old Spencer Herron. 266 00:14:16.946 --> 00:14:17.882 REPORTER 2: A victim told police 267 00:14:17.949 --> 00:14:19.952 she engaged in unprotected sex 268 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:22.023 at Herron's request multiple times, 269 00:14:22.089 --> 00:14:23.626 beginning in January of last year. 270 00:14:23.693 --> 00:14:25.029 REPORTER 3: Two former students, 271 00:14:25.096 --> 00:14:26.600 who did not want to go on camera, 272 00:14:26.666 --> 00:14:28.904 told me Herron was a great coach and teacher. 273 00:14:28.971 --> 00:14:31.643 The other student added Herron was a professional 274 00:14:31.709 --> 00:14:32.911 and kind-hearted. 275 00:14:32.978 --> 00:14:34.181 She told me she does not believe 276 00:14:34.248 --> 00:14:36.352 the allegations are true. 277 00:14:36.418 --> 00:14:38.957 MICHIKA: When I first found out about his arrest, 278 00:14:39.024 --> 00:14:41.997 I just couldn't believe that something like this 279 00:14:42.064 --> 00:14:43.199 could even happen. 280 00:14:43.265 --> 00:14:45.036 - Most people weren't 281 00:14:45.103 --> 00:14:47.608 too interested in believing that 282 00:14:47.674 --> 00:14:49.746 because of the impression that a lot of us had 283 00:14:49.813 --> 00:14:51.181 of Spencer Herron. 284 00:14:51.248 --> 00:14:53.520 He was Teacher of the Year, you know. 285 00:14:53.586 --> 00:14:55.490 MATT: I was hired about two months 286 00:14:55.557 --> 00:14:57.528 after Spencer Herron got arrested. 287 00:14:57.595 --> 00:15:00.066 And so, when I first started my new program at Kell, 288 00:15:00.132 --> 00:15:02.270 there was a lot of backlash. 289 00:15:02.337 --> 00:15:04.174 There was definitely a large group of students 290 00:15:04.241 --> 00:15:06.278 who really missed the old program, 291 00:15:06.345 --> 00:15:07.982 really missed the old teacher. 292 00:15:08.048 --> 00:15:09.952 I don't think they cared about the allegations 293 00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:11.421 and all the stories. 294 00:15:11.488 --> 00:15:13.593 When I started talking to other faculty members 295 00:15:13.660 --> 00:15:14.595 about Spencer, 296 00:15:14.662 --> 00:15:17.968 it was nothing but glowing reviews, 297 00:15:18.035 --> 00:15:19.104 all these positive things 298 00:15:19.171 --> 00:15:20.406 about how great his program was, 299 00:15:20.473 --> 00:15:22.310 how much the kids loved his program, 300 00:15:22.377 --> 00:15:24.649 that he was the cool teacher amongst the students 301 00:15:24.716 --> 00:15:26.552 and the faculty. 302 00:15:26.619 --> 00:15:29.124 A couple male teachers, they would say, 303 00:15:29.190 --> 00:15:31.461 "There's two sides to every story." 304 00:15:31.529 --> 00:15:34.434 ♪♪ ♪♪ 305 00:15:34.502 --> 00:15:37.340 RACHEL: I was in a situation where I was in his office 306 00:15:37.406 --> 00:15:39.612 and he was holding my hand. 307 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:44.154 And a teacher walked in and saw it, looked at us both, 308 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:46.225 and walked out. 309 00:15:46.291 --> 00:15:48.462 And I never saw that teacher again. 310 00:15:48.530 --> 00:15:51.368 ♪♪ ♪♪ 311 00:15:51.435 --> 00:15:53.338 MATT: I was just baffled. 312 00:15:53.405 --> 00:15:54.642 We're reading articles 313 00:15:54.709 --> 00:15:56.445 about him assaulting a student, 314 00:15:56.513 --> 00:15:58.784 and I still couldn't get a negative story 315 00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.288 out of anybody. 316 00:16:01.354 --> 00:16:03.994 RACHEL: Overall, there's a fear of retribution, 317 00:16:04.060 --> 00:16:06.966 fear of losing their job, fear of losing their credibility 318 00:16:07.033 --> 00:16:09.437 or getting a coworker in trouble. 319 00:16:09.505 --> 00:16:13.613 It's that mentality of protecting one another. 320 00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:15.851 ANDREA: A lot of teachers and faculty came 321 00:16:15.917 --> 00:16:19.424 to Spencer Herron's defense 322 00:16:19.491 --> 00:16:22.698 because people trusted him. 323 00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:24.636 JENIFER: A lot of people thought, 324 00:16:24.702 --> 00:16:26.438 "Oh, the student-- 325 00:16:26.506 --> 00:16:29.410 "she's probably just trying to accuse him 326 00:16:29.477 --> 00:16:31.048 "of something that didn't really happen, 327 00:16:31.114 --> 00:16:34.120 or maybe she had pursued and she was hurt now." 328 00:16:36.291 --> 00:16:38.864 - I did see some of that victim blaming. 329 00:16:38.931 --> 00:16:41.135 My friend had said, "I just don't understand 330 00:16:41.202 --> 00:16:42.872 "how that girl could do that. 331 00:16:42.938 --> 00:16:46.144 "Do your parents not teach you to, like, be more careful 332 00:16:46.211 --> 00:16:47.781 and not go to a hotel with a grown man?" 333 00:17:05.951 --> 00:17:08.155 [uneasy music] 334 00:17:08.222 --> 00:17:09.992 ♪♪ ♪♪ 335 00:17:10.059 --> 00:17:11.261 RACHEL: After I came forward, 336 00:17:11.328 --> 00:17:13.800 I had victim-shaming commentary online 337 00:17:13.867 --> 00:17:16.973 such as, "She knew what she was doing." 338 00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:18.142 "What was she wearing?" 339 00:17:18.208 --> 00:17:19.745 "It was her hormones." 340 00:17:19.812 --> 00:17:21.315 "She wanted him." 341 00:17:21.381 --> 00:17:24.722 I even saw the question, "Was she hot enough?" 342 00:17:24.789 --> 00:17:27.093 And these people didn't know me from scratch. 343 00:17:27.159 --> 00:17:30.901 Inappropriate relationships between students and teachers 344 00:17:30.968 --> 00:17:33.038 are not romantic. 345 00:17:33.105 --> 00:17:35.811 I was made to feel like an adult. 346 00:17:35.878 --> 00:17:38.951 I was having to pretend to be more grown than I was. 347 00:17:39.017 --> 00:17:42.256 And on top of that, I was made to look like a villain. 348 00:17:44.728 --> 00:17:46.866 ANDREA: She was gonna take this to the grave. 349 00:17:46.933 --> 00:17:51.676 But the bravery of just sharing the situation was tremendous. 350 00:17:51.743 --> 00:17:55.817 And by her coming forward, it empowered others to say, 351 00:17:55.884 --> 00:17:57.622 "Something's not right here." 352 00:17:57.688 --> 00:17:58.991 [dramatic music] 353 00:17:59.057 --> 00:18:01.295 KEELY: So my video production classes with Spencer 354 00:18:01.361 --> 00:18:02.898 were really fun. 355 00:18:02.965 --> 00:18:04.300 He was the cool teacher. 356 00:18:04.367 --> 00:18:07.173 Everyone really liked him. 357 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.545 It's weird, 'cause there was this dual feeling of shock. 358 00:18:09.612 --> 00:18:12.149 Like, I didn't really wanna believe it either, 359 00:18:12.216 --> 00:18:14.655 but also, I guess I always knew 360 00:18:14.722 --> 00:18:16.859 he was inappropriate in some way, 361 00:18:16.926 --> 00:18:19.899 even though I would have hated to admit it back then. 362 00:18:19.966 --> 00:18:21.101 - Teacher bribes? 363 00:18:21.168 --> 00:18:22.905 They're gonna get a passing grade. 364 00:18:22.971 --> 00:18:25.711 Depends on what they bring me as to how high the grade. 365 00:18:25.778 --> 00:18:27.982 KEELY: Kids knew that they could get away with stuff 366 00:18:28.048 --> 00:18:30.386 with him. I knew that. 367 00:18:30.452 --> 00:18:31.789 I tended to skip his class. 368 00:18:31.856 --> 00:18:33.326 And he--he would never tell on you 369 00:18:33.392 --> 00:18:35.163 or anything like that. 370 00:18:35.229 --> 00:18:39.805 In the moment, I did feel like I was special. 371 00:18:39.872 --> 00:18:42.678 And also, I did self-harm, and I'm okay to admit that. 372 00:18:42.745 --> 00:18:44.582 And it was something that he had noticed. 373 00:18:44.649 --> 00:18:46.318 And he didn't tell a guidance counselor 374 00:18:46.385 --> 00:18:49.992 or, like, the administration or my parents or anybody. 375 00:18:50.059 --> 00:18:52.096 As a kid, I appreciated it. 376 00:18:52.163 --> 00:18:53.766 But he should have. 377 00:18:53.833 --> 00:18:57.474 If they're keeping secrets or asking you to keep secrets, 378 00:18:57.541 --> 00:18:58.843 there's something not right. 379 00:18:58.910 --> 00:19:00.781 Because an adult who really cares about you 380 00:19:00.847 --> 00:19:01.782 is not gonna do that. 381 00:19:01.849 --> 00:19:04.588 They're gonna want you to get help. 382 00:19:04.655 --> 00:19:06.626 MATT: When I first started my new program, 383 00:19:06.693 --> 00:19:09.097 seniors came in on the first day that I had, 384 00:19:09.164 --> 00:19:10.567 and they were all so upset 385 00:19:10.634 --> 00:19:12.003 that the room had changed. 386 00:19:12.070 --> 00:19:13.707 They were like, "Where's the Elvis blanket?" 387 00:19:13.774 --> 00:19:16.779 He would hang the blanket over his office window. 388 00:19:16.846 --> 00:19:19.785 Why did he hang a blanket over his window? 389 00:19:19.852 --> 00:19:21.556 And they go, "Oh, so he didn't want students 390 00:19:21.623 --> 00:19:22.924 looking in the office." 391 00:19:24.862 --> 00:19:27.467 It just seemed so awful and strange 392 00:19:27.535 --> 00:19:29.104 that no one noticed 393 00:19:29.171 --> 00:19:33.379 that this teacher had coverings over his windows, um, 394 00:19:33.445 --> 00:19:34.882 during the school day and all the time. 395 00:19:34.949 --> 00:19:36.418 [eerie music] 396 00:19:36.484 --> 00:19:38.990 As I was clearing out the room and trying to make it my own, 397 00:19:39.056 --> 00:19:40.492 I went through the filing cabinets, 398 00:19:40.560 --> 00:19:42.931 and I found an email correspondence 399 00:19:42.998 --> 00:19:44.902 between him and a contact in LA 400 00:19:44.969 --> 00:19:47.574 that, you know, boiled down to Spencer's interest 401 00:19:47.641 --> 00:19:49.912 in possibly getting into the porn industry. 402 00:19:49.979 --> 00:19:52.250 ♪♪ ♪♪ 403 00:19:52.317 --> 00:19:53.753 And it was just shocking. 404 00:19:53.820 --> 00:19:55.490 Why would you print these emails 405 00:19:55.557 --> 00:19:56.893 and keep them in your filing cabinet 406 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.297 at a school? 407 00:19:59.363 --> 00:20:01.134 RACHEL: This is how grooming works: 408 00:20:01.201 --> 00:20:02.938 desensitizing the child, 409 00:20:03.005 --> 00:20:06.444 mentioning pornography, masturbation, 410 00:20:06.512 --> 00:20:10.085 anything that would be uncomfortable to the child, 411 00:20:10.152 --> 00:20:12.023 to where pushing those boundaries 412 00:20:12.090 --> 00:20:13.425 would become normalized. 413 00:20:13.492 --> 00:20:16.732 ♪♪ ♪♪ 414 00:20:22.176 --> 00:20:26.786 - This note is dated May 2008, which was when I graduated. 415 00:20:26.853 --> 00:20:32.463 It says, "Michika, I can't say goodbye, so I won't even try. 416 00:20:32.530 --> 00:20:36.237 "I hope we can stay friends, work together, 417 00:20:36.304 --> 00:20:39.177 "and both grow in video production. 418 00:20:39.244 --> 00:20:44.320 "I want to thank you for being you. 419 00:20:44.387 --> 00:20:47.994 "There has never been one like you, 420 00:20:48.061 --> 00:20:50.333 nor will there ever." 421 00:20:50.399 --> 00:20:54.608 Sorry, his handwriting is kind of wacky. 422 00:20:54.675 --> 00:20:58.482 "I know without a doubt that you will succeed 423 00:20:58.550 --> 00:21:01.522 "in whatever you desire to try. 424 00:21:01.589 --> 00:21:06.498 "I only hope to get to share it with you someday. 425 00:21:06.566 --> 00:21:08.368 "I already miss you. 426 00:21:08.435 --> 00:21:11.174 Much love, Coach Herron." 427 00:21:11.241 --> 00:21:15.315 ♪♪ ♪♪ 428 00:21:15.382 --> 00:21:20.393 When I read this back when I was 17, 429 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:22.865 it made me feel really special. 430 00:21:22.932 --> 00:21:26.606 None of my other teachers wrote me a goodbye letter. 431 00:21:26.672 --> 00:21:31.181 But reading it now is like, 432 00:21:31.248 --> 00:21:33.720 it's kind of a weird way to, like, 433 00:21:33.786 --> 00:21:35.523 talk to a student, you know? 434 00:21:35.590 --> 00:21:38.362 ♪♪ ♪♪ 435 00:21:38.428 --> 00:21:43.640 After I graduated, I got, like, a few messages on Facebook 436 00:21:43.706 --> 00:21:44.908 from him. 437 00:21:44.975 --> 00:21:46.879 The conversation each time would end 438 00:21:46.946 --> 00:21:50.419 with him suggesting that we go get coffee 439 00:21:50.486 --> 00:21:52.557 sometime to catch up. 440 00:21:53.693 --> 00:21:55.396 That never ended up happening. 441 00:21:56.331 --> 00:22:00.272 I can believe now that he did have ulterior motives 442 00:22:00.339 --> 00:22:03.478 other than just saying a friendly hello 443 00:22:03.546 --> 00:22:05.516 to a former student. 444 00:22:06.852 --> 00:22:09.558 ANDREA: Jen found messages 445 00:22:09.625 --> 00:22:12.565 between him and other former students. 446 00:22:12.631 --> 00:22:15.670 Not just one, not just two, dozens. 447 00:22:15.737 --> 00:22:18.108 He was constantly just cultivating 448 00:22:18.174 --> 00:22:21.214 as many opportunities as possible. 449 00:22:21.281 --> 00:22:26.959 - After I graduated, Spencer did message me on Facebook. 450 00:22:27.026 --> 00:22:29.698 And I was really thinking it was a fake account. 451 00:22:29.765 --> 00:22:31.000 Here's this popular teacher 452 00:22:31.067 --> 00:22:33.372 that all of the female students thought 453 00:22:33.438 --> 00:22:34.842 was super attractive, 454 00:22:34.908 --> 00:22:38.015 and, you know, he was messaging me, an 18-year-old. 455 00:22:38.081 --> 00:22:41.722 He kept saying, "So cool to watch you mature and grow." 456 00:22:43.693 --> 00:22:46.431 And "I was always fond of you." 457 00:22:48.135 --> 00:22:49.605 Then he came to my job. 458 00:22:50.808 --> 00:22:53.078 When he came in, he hugged me. 459 00:22:53.144 --> 00:22:55.049 It was kind of a longer hug 460 00:22:55.115 --> 00:22:57.353 than I would have been comfortable with. 461 00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:00.627 And he very audibly sniffed me. 462 00:23:02.397 --> 00:23:04.635 And my manager noticed. 463 00:23:04.701 --> 00:23:06.606 And when Spencer left, 464 00:23:06.673 --> 00:23:08.208 he asked me, "Who was that guy?" 465 00:23:08.275 --> 00:23:10.647 ♪♪ ♪♪ 466 00:23:10.714 --> 00:23:12.584 That was kind of where it ceased, 467 00:23:12.651 --> 00:23:15.757 and then I went and blocked his number. 468 00:23:15.823 --> 00:23:19.130 - In the end, nothing happened with Michika or Keely. 469 00:23:19.197 --> 00:23:20.733 They both turned him down. 470 00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:23.305 But that wasn't the case for some. 471 00:23:23.372 --> 00:23:26.912 And there were former students that he had affairs with. 472 00:23:28.048 --> 00:23:30.019 RAMANI: These earlier relationships 473 00:23:30.086 --> 00:23:31.187 with teenage girls, 474 00:23:31.254 --> 00:23:33.527 waiting until they turned 18. 475 00:23:33.593 --> 00:23:37.467 As some of those were actually yielding the results he wanted 476 00:23:37.535 --> 00:23:39.470 and he wasn't getting caught, 477 00:23:39.538 --> 00:23:42.510 that then led to the escalation. 478 00:24:03.018 --> 00:24:06.625 RAMANI: Advantaging trust and vulnerability 479 00:24:06.692 --> 00:24:09.565 and using things that are actually important 480 00:24:09.632 --> 00:24:12.738 in relationships, like feeling special and value 481 00:24:12.805 --> 00:24:16.846 and chosen, and instead, distorting those 482 00:24:16.912 --> 00:24:19.751 and pathologizing those to take advantage of people. 483 00:24:19.818 --> 00:24:21.254 - And that's what these predators do, 484 00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:24.862 is they groom you by providing things for you, 485 00:24:24.929 --> 00:24:27.366 doing all these things and get to the point where, 486 00:24:27.433 --> 00:24:28.569 "Well, I've done all this for you. 487 00:24:28.636 --> 00:24:30.139 Now I need you to do something for me." 488 00:24:30.205 --> 00:24:33.245 And boom, next thing you know, it's sexual assault. 489 00:24:33.312 --> 00:24:38.656 - This is a toxic dynamic that everybody needs to know about. 490 00:24:38.723 --> 00:24:40.325 RACHEL: The grooming, it's a process. 491 00:24:40.392 --> 00:24:42.964 Usually, people who are in positions of power, 492 00:24:43.031 --> 00:24:45.537 such as coaches, teachers, religious leaders... 493 00:24:45.604 --> 00:24:47.139 They first develop an attraction 494 00:24:47.206 --> 00:24:48.743 to a specific child. 495 00:24:50.346 --> 00:24:52.350 RAMANI: It's almost like predator glasses. 496 00:24:52.417 --> 00:24:55.155 [eerie music] 497 00:24:55.222 --> 00:25:00.365 He was often focusing on young women who were shy, 498 00:25:00.432 --> 00:25:02.303 may not have had as many friends, 499 00:25:02.370 --> 00:25:05.844 may not have sort of fit conventional standards 500 00:25:05.911 --> 00:25:09.217 of what makes a gal popular in high school. 501 00:25:09.284 --> 00:25:12.691 And that vulnerability is what was making them 502 00:25:12.758 --> 00:25:15.530 a sort of viable target. 503 00:25:15.597 --> 00:25:16.532 FLYNN: It's almost like watching 504 00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:17.567 an animal show channel 505 00:25:17.634 --> 00:25:19.571 where the lion is sitting there, 506 00:25:19.638 --> 00:25:21.040 looking for the weakest person. 507 00:25:30.226 --> 00:25:31.662 RAMANI: You have somebody who was 508 00:25:31.729 --> 00:25:34.300 the Teacher of the Year twice, 509 00:25:34.366 --> 00:25:36.437 who was beloved by students 510 00:25:36.505 --> 00:25:38.275 and many colleagues. 511 00:25:38.342 --> 00:25:40.747 And now I want you to stop and sit down and think 512 00:25:40.813 --> 00:25:42.584 you're a teenage girl. 513 00:25:42.651 --> 00:25:44.487 And now I want you to stop and think 514 00:25:44.555 --> 00:25:46.625 about what it would feel like 515 00:25:46.692 --> 00:25:50.132 to be the one who calls that teacher out. 516 00:25:50.199 --> 00:25:52.470 That is nothing short of miraculous. 517 00:25:52.538 --> 00:25:55.075 Most survivors don't feel safe enough to speak out, 518 00:25:55.142 --> 00:25:57.279 and I completely understand that, 519 00:25:57.346 --> 00:25:59.017 because what Rachel did 520 00:25:59.083 --> 00:26:02.524 didn't come without incredible harm 521 00:26:02.591 --> 00:26:04.562 and risk and anguish for her. 522 00:26:04.628 --> 00:26:07.534 [melancholy music] 523 00:26:07.601 --> 00:26:10.338 ♪♪ ♪♪ 524 00:26:30.746 --> 00:26:32.249 KEELY: He raped that student. 525 00:26:32.316 --> 00:26:35.389 I know that Georgia doesn't wanna call it that, 526 00:26:35.456 --> 00:26:39.932 but that's what it is when someone can't consent. 527 00:26:39.999 --> 00:26:41.803 So if she hadn't come forward, 528 00:26:41.869 --> 00:26:44.440 what would he have done to someone else? 529 00:26:44.508 --> 00:26:45.844 It could have been me. 530 00:26:45.911 --> 00:26:47.079 She's a hero. 531 00:26:48.850 --> 00:26:50.753 RACHEL: Although this happened to me and my family, 532 00:26:50.820 --> 00:26:53.860 it is none other than my responsibility to heal, 533 00:26:53.926 --> 00:26:56.231 and I know that, but we all bear the responsibility 534 00:26:56.298 --> 00:26:58.168 of protecting children in the school system. 535 00:27:00.072 --> 00:27:01.440 RAE: I know I may never 536 00:27:01.508 --> 00:27:02.911 actually meet her face to face, 537 00:27:02.978 --> 00:27:06.885 but I hope that she sees this and know 538 00:27:06.952 --> 00:27:10.125 how courageous I think that she is 539 00:27:10.192 --> 00:27:12.263 for what she did and what she took on. 540 00:27:12.329 --> 00:27:15.235 [uplifting music] 541 00:27:15.302 --> 00:27:17.206 ♪♪ ♪♪ 542 00:27:17.272 --> 00:27:19.177 - I want to thank you all for being here today 543 00:27:19.243 --> 00:27:22.784 and thank you for taking the time to listen to me. 544 00:27:22.850 --> 00:27:25.690 Thank you. [applause] 545 00:27:28.228 --> 00:27:34.541 - I am so sorry that she went through that experience, 546 00:27:34.608 --> 00:27:39.283 knowing that it could have been me 25 years earlier. 547 00:27:42.791 --> 00:27:45.261 JENIFER: Spence wrote me one letter 548 00:27:45.328 --> 00:27:49.804 addressing the sexual assault of the student. 549 00:27:49.871 --> 00:27:56.719 And he blamed the student for what happened. 550 00:27:56.785 --> 00:27:58.388 [dramatic music] 551 00:27:58.455 --> 00:28:01.394 He said, "I've never ever looked at her 552 00:28:01.461 --> 00:28:03.933 "in any inappropriate way. 553 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.006 "I can remember Rachel starting to stare at me, 554 00:28:07.073 --> 00:28:10.746 "longer looks, more often. 555 00:28:10.813 --> 00:28:14.153 "She was being very obvious. 556 00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:16.959 "I was packing up to go and was in my office, 557 00:28:17.026 --> 00:28:19.263 and she surprised me. 558 00:28:19.330 --> 00:28:22.871 "I think she said something like, 'What are you doing?' 559 00:28:22.938 --> 00:28:25.141 "'I'm going home,' I said. 560 00:28:25.208 --> 00:28:28.549 "'That's too bad,' she responded. 561 00:28:28.616 --> 00:28:31.187 "Then I remember a kiss. 562 00:28:31.254 --> 00:28:34.460 "She was very aggressive most of the time. 563 00:28:34.528 --> 00:28:38.168 "I was sure it was something she was super familiar with. 564 00:28:38.235 --> 00:28:40.940 I was never taking some kind of leading role." 565 00:28:43.177 --> 00:28:45.382 Spence denied ever being forceful. 566 00:28:45.448 --> 00:28:47.486 In fact, he said, 567 00:28:47.554 --> 00:28:49.090 "I'm not the monster 568 00:28:49.157 --> 00:28:51.160 that she's making me out to be." 569 00:28:53.298 --> 00:28:55.302 How can you not take responsibility 570 00:28:55.369 --> 00:28:57.439 for something like that? 571 00:28:57.507 --> 00:28:59.476 Wake up. You are a teacher. 572 00:29:02.551 --> 00:29:05.757 About two years after all of that, 573 00:29:05.823 --> 00:29:07.560 he called me from prison. 574 00:29:07.627 --> 00:29:10.065 ♪♪ ♪♪ 575 00:29:10.132 --> 00:29:11.267 RECORDED MESSAGE: To accept charges 576 00:29:11.333 --> 00:29:13.171 and consent to this recorded call, 577 00:29:13.238 --> 00:29:14.541 press 1. 578 00:29:14.608 --> 00:29:16.444 You may start the conversation now. 579 00:29:42.564 --> 00:29:45.368 [somber music] 580 00:29:45.435 --> 00:29:46.972 ♪♪ ♪♪ 581 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.241 JENIFER: It had been a few years 582 00:29:48.308 --> 00:29:50.546 since I had spoken to Spencer. 583 00:29:50.613 --> 00:29:54.453 I was hoping that maybe he had changed 584 00:29:54.521 --> 00:29:58.529 and started to take more accountability 585 00:29:58.596 --> 00:29:59.964 for what he had done. 586 00:30:01.100 --> 00:30:03.973 I didn't know what I was walking into. 587 00:30:04.040 --> 00:30:06.878 ♪♪ ♪♪ 588 00:31:00.352 --> 00:31:02.389 [investigatory music] 589 00:31:02.455 --> 00:31:05.061 ANDREA: We know that he was on email, 590 00:31:05.128 --> 00:31:10.873 Facebook Messenger, text, 591 00:31:10.940 --> 00:31:13.244 persistently reaching out to people 592 00:31:13.311 --> 00:31:15.583 to create opportunities. 593 00:31:47.179 --> 00:31:49.050 JENIFER: So in his mind, 594 00:31:49.117 --> 00:31:53.191 he's made it somehow not so bad, 595 00:31:53.258 --> 00:31:55.629 and what he did not so wrong. 596 00:32:10.527 --> 00:32:14.801 - He was saying to Jenifer, "That's what bad is, 597 00:32:14.867 --> 00:32:17.038 so you see, I'm not so bad." 598 00:32:28.695 --> 00:32:31.602 - He's trying to say, "It could be worse. 599 00:32:31.669 --> 00:32:32.703 It could be this." 600 00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:49.504 JENIFER: You don't get healed from that right away. 601 00:32:49.571 --> 00:32:53.512 He's incapable of understanding 602 00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:58.989 how big his problem or his issues are. 603 00:33:09.309 --> 00:33:13.417 That was really his main concern, was himself. 604 00:33:26.110 --> 00:33:27.847 ANDREA: There was a chance that he was up for parole 605 00:33:27.914 --> 00:33:31.555 months sooner, and Rachel wrote the parole board, 606 00:33:31.622 --> 00:33:33.491 petitioning for him to stay behind bars. 607 00:34:15.108 --> 00:34:18.481 - The parole board took that letter really seriously. 608 00:34:18.549 --> 00:34:22.222 And an early release was denied. 609 00:34:39.758 --> 00:34:42.329 - When you say "stay below the radar," what do you mean? 610 00:34:42.395 --> 00:34:45.670 You're not gonna go back to your old behavior? 611 00:34:45.737 --> 00:34:48.776 Because he didn't say, "I'm gonna change my ways. 612 00:34:48.843 --> 00:34:50.311 I'm gonna get therapy." 613 00:34:50.378 --> 00:34:52.850 It was about not getting caught again. 614 00:35:00.398 --> 00:35:01.801 CALL SYSTEM: You have one minute left. 615 00:35:12.623 --> 00:35:14.327 SINGER: ♪♪ Don't you know that you gotta take 616 00:35:14.393 --> 00:35:15.697 ♪♪ Some of the blame? ♪♪ 617 00:35:15.763 --> 00:35:17.967 - You don't just move on from something like this. 618 00:35:18.034 --> 00:35:19.871 SINGER: ♪♪ You said those unkind words ♪♪ 619 00:35:19.938 --> 00:35:22.075 ♪♪ 'Cause you think it's a game ♪♪ 620 00:35:22.142 --> 00:35:23.344 ♪♪ Well, it's not ♪♪ 621 00:35:23.411 --> 00:35:24.848 JENIFER: What Spence doesn't realize 622 00:35:24.915 --> 00:35:27.019 is that this is gonna have an impact 623 00:35:27.086 --> 00:35:29.757 on so many people for such a long time. 624 00:35:29.824 --> 00:35:33.866 SINGER: ♪♪ Yeah, it's got real serious ♪♪ 625 00:35:33.933 --> 00:35:35.969 - People aren't just gonna get over it 626 00:35:36.036 --> 00:35:37.339 like he would like for them to. 627 00:35:37.406 --> 00:35:39.677 ♪♪ ♪♪ 628 00:35:43.217 --> 00:35:45.322 JENIFER: I don't need to talk to Spence anymore. 629 00:35:45.388 --> 00:35:47.827 I was just hoping that he would somehow 630 00:35:47.894 --> 00:35:54.608 explain everything and give me an answer to why he did this. 631 00:35:54.675 --> 00:35:58.048 SINGER: ♪♪ You could be anything you like ♪♪ 632 00:35:58.114 --> 00:36:00.084 - I never got those answers. 633 00:36:00.151 --> 00:36:04.694 SINGER: ♪♪ So why do you choose to be so unkind? ♪♪ 634 00:36:08.134 --> 00:36:10.573 [suspenseful music] 635 00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:13.244 ANDREA: Spencer was eventually granted parole 636 00:36:13.310 --> 00:36:16.250 in the summer of 2022. 637 00:36:18.154 --> 00:36:20.893 He had done what he was told he had to do. 638 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.766 A clean slate, that's what he was after. 639 00:36:23.833 --> 00:36:27.573 However, he'll still serve 15 years' probation. 640 00:36:27.640 --> 00:36:31.247 He'll be registered as a sex offender. 641 00:36:31.314 --> 00:36:34.921 ♪♪ ♪♪ 642 00:36:34.987 --> 00:36:36.825 [melancholy music] 643 00:36:36.892 --> 00:36:39.898 - When I found out that Spencer had been released, 644 00:36:39.964 --> 00:36:41.968 it was, uh, shocking. 645 00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:45.976 APRIL: I don't think five years is enough 646 00:36:46.043 --> 00:36:47.947 for the magnitude of the crime, 647 00:36:48.014 --> 00:36:50.819 especially against such a young person. 648 00:36:50.886 --> 00:36:52.322 FLYNN: The law would require him 649 00:36:52.389 --> 00:36:54.493 to register as a sex offender, 650 00:36:54.561 --> 00:36:56.698 make sure that he's not allowed to be around children 651 00:36:56.765 --> 00:37:00.740 under the age of 18, whether it be work, where he lives. 652 00:37:00.807 --> 00:37:03.344 All those things would apply. 653 00:37:03.411 --> 00:37:06.785 - Being a mom and having a daughter, it's scary. 654 00:37:06.852 --> 00:37:09.925 It's very scary to think that this situation 655 00:37:09.991 --> 00:37:12.028 could happen pretty easily. 656 00:37:14.634 --> 00:37:15.803 ANDREA: I know that Spencer's out. 657 00:37:15.870 --> 00:37:17.973 He's spending time with family. 658 00:37:18.040 --> 00:37:20.813 And that's been really hard for Jen. 659 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:26.758 I think that she assumed that when he got out of jail, 660 00:37:26.824 --> 00:37:30.766 it wouldn't necessarily be a soft landing. 661 00:37:30.833 --> 00:37:33.705 And I think that he's landed pretty comfortably, 662 00:37:33.772 --> 00:37:37.045 and that's been hard for her to digest. 663 00:37:37.112 --> 00:37:40.117 RAMANI: When someone behaves as badly as Spencer did, 664 00:37:40.184 --> 00:37:43.357 I use the analogy of sort of an asteroid hitting. 665 00:37:43.424 --> 00:37:44.895 It's not just about the impact, 666 00:37:44.961 --> 00:37:46.998 it's not just about the suddenness, 667 00:37:47.065 --> 00:37:49.403 but it's about the blast zone. 668 00:37:49.470 --> 00:37:51.508 There was so much collateral damage 669 00:37:51.575 --> 00:37:53.578 of other people hurt, 670 00:37:53.645 --> 00:37:55.481 it was absolutely extraordinary. 671 00:37:57.821 --> 00:38:00.192 JEFFREY: There was an abruptness to this. 672 00:38:00.258 --> 00:38:06.270 We never saw or spoke to Spence after this happened. 673 00:38:06.336 --> 00:38:09.911 It's like you have this person in your life one day, 674 00:38:09.978 --> 00:38:13.350 and then he's never in your life again. 675 00:38:16.691 --> 00:38:19.764 - The whole thing is just absolutely heartbreaking 676 00:38:19.831 --> 00:38:22.335 across the board. 677 00:38:23.304 --> 00:38:27.312 - They were both my friend, and so I felt betrayed, too, 678 00:38:27.379 --> 00:38:29.116 because someone that I thought I knew 679 00:38:29.182 --> 00:38:30.686 was completely different. 680 00:38:30.752 --> 00:38:36.631 BECKY SHAHEEN: ♪♪ When you break the truth down ♪♪ 681 00:38:36.698 --> 00:38:38.836 - Apparently, the Spencer I know, 682 00:38:38.903 --> 00:38:41.808 the person I know, doesn't exist. 683 00:38:41.875 --> 00:38:44.881 BECKY SHAHEEN: ♪♪ Be careful what you find ♪♪ 684 00:38:44.948 --> 00:38:47.520 ♪♪ Careful what ♪♪ 685 00:38:47.587 --> 00:38:49.290 - All of the experiences 686 00:38:49.356 --> 00:38:51.360 that so many other people had with him, 687 00:38:51.427 --> 00:38:53.965 I didn't have those experiences. 688 00:38:55.468 --> 00:39:00.779 So why do I feel so shattered and destroyed and betrayed? 689 00:39:00.846 --> 00:39:02.383 GAIL: I did feel betrayed 690 00:39:02.449 --> 00:39:08.327 because we had put so much into him 691 00:39:08.394 --> 00:39:10.364 for so many years, 692 00:39:10.431 --> 00:39:13.505 that he would do that to us, 693 00:39:13.572 --> 00:39:16.978 knowing us, knowing our family? 694 00:39:17.045 --> 00:39:22.657 Who is this man that would do that, married to my daughter? 695 00:39:22.724 --> 00:39:25.629 As I'm talking right now about this, 696 00:39:25.696 --> 00:39:31.106 I'm really realizing that this is the first time 697 00:39:31.173 --> 00:39:37.152 I've admitted that-- that I'm so angry, 698 00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:39.122 that I'm angry about it. 699 00:39:41.060 --> 00:39:42.797 [sighs] 700 00:39:42.864 --> 00:39:46.103 - The healing's not over yet. 701 00:39:46.170 --> 00:39:48.408 I'm not out of the woods yet. 702 00:39:48.474 --> 00:39:53.585 I am still clawing my way back out of this deep, dark hole 703 00:39:53.652 --> 00:39:55.722 that I fell into. 704 00:39:55.789 --> 00:39:58.729 ANDREA: But the Jen that I met in 2019 705 00:39:58.796 --> 00:40:01.199 is a different person than the Jen I see today. 706 00:40:02.871 --> 00:40:05.374 I always knew she was strong. 707 00:40:05.441 --> 00:40:07.479 Now I see a woman that knows her strength. 708 00:40:07.546 --> 00:40:10.251 [downbeat music] 709 00:40:10.318 --> 00:40:16.798 ♪♪ ♪♪ 710 00:40:16.865 --> 00:40:19.035 GAIL: Jenifer knows how to survive. 711 00:40:19.102 --> 00:40:20.171 - [laughs] 712 00:40:20.237 --> 00:40:21.741 - She has done it, right? 713 00:40:21.808 --> 00:40:23.310 She's done it all of her life. 714 00:40:23.377 --> 00:40:24.881 She could just make it happen. 715 00:40:24.948 --> 00:40:28.855 ELLER: ♪♪ This will be my final teardrop ♪♪ 716 00:40:28.922 --> 00:40:33.765 ♪♪ This will be our curtain call ♪♪ 717 00:40:33.832 --> 00:40:37.740 ♪♪ Take this as my last confession ♪♪ 718 00:40:37.806 --> 00:40:41.013 ♪♪ This will be mine after all ♪♪ 719 00:40:41.080 --> 00:40:45.021 ♪♪ ♪♪ 720 00:40:45.088 --> 00:40:48.629 - Jen is not defined by her marriage to Spencer. 721 00:40:48.695 --> 00:40:53.304 Jen is not defined by the podcast Betrayal. 722 00:40:53.371 --> 00:40:54.941 Jen is Jen. 723 00:40:55.008 --> 00:40:58.214 And the most important part of the healing journey 724 00:40:58.281 --> 00:41:01.554 is for us to not be defined by our stories, 725 00:41:01.621 --> 00:41:04.661 but to simply be our authentic selves. 726 00:41:04.728 --> 00:41:07.599 That is going to be the healing journey for Jen, 727 00:41:07.666 --> 00:41:12.543 for Rachel, and for anyone else that was harmed by this story. 728 00:41:13.243 --> 00:41:16.718 JENIFER: To this day, I am so grateful 729 00:41:16.785 --> 00:41:18.888 Rachel did come forward. 730 00:41:18.955 --> 00:41:22.830 It was the bravest thing she could have done, 731 00:41:22.897 --> 00:41:27.507 and it also saved my life. 732 00:41:27.573 --> 00:41:32.148 If she hadn't brought Spencer's activity to light, 733 00:41:32.215 --> 00:41:35.221 I may never have learned of his deception. 734 00:41:35.288 --> 00:41:39.129 I could still be married to this monster. 735 00:41:39.196 --> 00:41:41.901 I really want this story 736 00:41:41.968 --> 00:41:45.475 to give other people the courage to speak up 737 00:41:45.543 --> 00:41:48.715 and to talk about these topics 738 00:41:48.782 --> 00:41:53.190 that are really difficult to speak about. 739 00:41:53.257 --> 00:41:54.994 ♪♪ ♪♪ 740 00:41:55.061 --> 00:41:58.067 By coming forward, by speaking out, 741 00:41:58.133 --> 00:42:01.073 you could be saving somebody else 742 00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:04.747 from having to go through something horrible. 743 00:42:04.814 --> 00:42:06.818 If I could just help one person 744 00:42:06.885 --> 00:42:08.989 by sharing my story, 745 00:42:09.055 --> 00:42:11.126 then I was bringing purpose to it. 746 00:42:12.997 --> 00:42:16.938 I wouldn't trade what happened to me for anything now. 747 00:42:17.005 --> 00:42:20.378 I think I've grown a lot from it. 748 00:42:20.445 --> 00:42:22.783 I don't know what the future looks like. 749 00:42:22.850 --> 00:42:24.687 None of us do. 750 00:42:24.754 --> 00:42:29.864 But if we just keep moving forward, we're gonna be okay. 751 00:42:29.931 --> 00:42:33.972 ELLER: ♪♪ This will be my final teardrop ♪♪ 752 00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:38.180 ♪♪ This will be our curtain call ♪♪ 753 00:42:38.247 --> 00:42:42.690 ♪♪ Take this as my last confession ♪♪ 754 00:42:42.756 --> 00:42:45.829 ♪♪ This will be mine after all ♪♪ 755 00:42:45.896 --> 00:42:47.733 ♪♪ Oh, this will be ♪♪ 756 00:42:47.799 --> 00:42:51.173 ♪♪ My final teardrop ♪♪ 757 00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:55.715 ♪♪ This will be our curtain call ♪♪ 758 00:42:55.782 --> 00:42:59.791 ♪♪ Take this as my last confession ♪♪ 759 00:42:59.858 --> 00:43:06.169 ♪♪ This will be mine after all, after all ♪♪ 760 00:43:08.875 --> 00:43:14.753 ♪♪ A final teardrop ♪♪ 761 00:43:20.498 --> 00:43:23.437 [dark music] 762 00:43:23.505 --> 00:43:30.619 ♪♪ ♪♪ 57929

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