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WEBVTT FILE
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[dramatic music]
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00:00:03.975 --> 00:00:09.686
♪♪ ♪♪
3
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- I had a great marriage.
4
00:00:14.562 --> 00:00:18.871
You don't realize
how quickly life can change.
5
00:00:18.938 --> 00:00:22.613
- Teacher of the Year is
now charged with sex crimes.
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00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:25.084
JENIFER: Sexual assault
of a student.
7
00:00:25.151 --> 00:00:27.387
- How could that
possibly be true?
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JENIFER:
I get into his email.
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00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:32.799
There's a photo
of a woman, half naked.
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00:00:32.866 --> 00:00:35.972
Prostitutes, escorts...
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00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.042
His other life
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00:00:38.109 --> 00:00:41.382
was devious and deceptive.
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00:00:45.123 --> 00:00:47.461
There was nothing
about this that was love.
14
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KIM WIGINGTON: Slowly
I just began to realize,
15
00:00:50.601 --> 00:00:56.078
if he is this addicted,
yes, he did it.
16
00:00:56.145 --> 00:00:57.381
He had sex with a student.
17
00:00:58.517 --> 00:01:02.792
- Spencer escalated so much
in his behaviors
18
00:01:02.859 --> 00:01:05.430
that he became a predator
and a criminal.
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00:01:11.376 --> 00:01:12.979
- Well, that former Teacher
of the Year right here
20
00:01:13.046 --> 00:01:15.250
in jail tonight,
the allegations
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from groping
to sex with students.
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JENIFER: Rachel is the name
of the former student
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who came forward
with allegations
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00:01:24.101 --> 00:01:25.037
against Spencer Herron
25
00:01:25.104 --> 00:01:26.874
that led to his arrest.
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ANDREA:
Any case that involves a minor
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is usually closed,
so we never had any intention
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of interviewing Rachel
for the podcast,
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because we wanted to protect
her anonymity.
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But we reached out
to her civil attorney.
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He thought that potentially,
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Rachel would be interested
in talking.
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She agreed to sit down
and do a formal interview.
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[dramatic music]
35
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[dramatic music]
36
00:02:30.802 --> 00:02:32.004
[shattering glass]
37
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♪♪ ♪♪
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- One of the positive things
that has come from the podcast
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is being asked to, um, do
some speaking engagements.
40
00:02:47.836 --> 00:02:50.541
So Rachel and I were asked
to come and speak
41
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to the criminology department
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00:02:52.177 --> 00:02:55.283
at the University
of North Georgia in Dahlonega.
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00:02:58.256 --> 00:03:00.260
The brave soul
that came forward
44
00:03:00.326 --> 00:03:01.530
and reported the abuse
45
00:03:01.597 --> 00:03:03.667
she endured
by her trusted teacher
46
00:03:03.734 --> 00:03:07.241
reclaimed her voice
and said, "No more."
47
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She was the victim
of my ex-husband's
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00:03:09.847 --> 00:03:12.151
despicable crimes.
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00:03:12.217 --> 00:03:15.958
But more importantly,
she's a survivor,
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and Rachel is my friend.
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Come on up, Rachel.
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[applause]
53
00:03:26.312 --> 00:03:28.951
- Thank you, Jenifer.
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00:03:29.017 --> 00:03:31.089
This was me at 15 years old.
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00:03:31.156 --> 00:03:34.395
I was a shy kid who focused
on doing good in school.
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I was just opening up
and expanding
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00:03:36.399 --> 00:03:38.036
my friend group at this time.
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ANDREA: She met him
at video production class,
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00:03:40.473 --> 00:03:42.311
sophomore year.
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00:03:42.377 --> 00:03:45.585
And through that program,
she got to know him
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00:03:45.652 --> 00:03:47.589
and feel safe with him.
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- So I'm Spencer Herron,
the video teacher here at Kell.
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00:03:57.775 --> 00:04:02.986
- So many people, faculty,
students, respected him.
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00:04:03.052 --> 00:04:05.424
As a colleague, as a mentor,
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00:04:05.491 --> 00:04:07.662
he meant a lot
to this community.
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MICHIKA: I graduated
Kell High School in 2008.
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Coach Herron was called Coach
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because he was
the girls' soccer coach.
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- Attention all soccer players.
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To be in shape,
possibly for tryouts,
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00:04:21.757 --> 00:04:24.294
attending workouts after school
is highly recommended.
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MICHIKA: But I knew
Coach Herron
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00:04:26.633 --> 00:04:29.138
as my video production
teacher.
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- When I'm not missing
my seniors in my video class,
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00:04:32.545 --> 00:04:37.053
you know, you know I'm watching
Unbelievabeef, last episode.
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00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:41.563
MICHIKA: He was definitely
viewed as the cool teacher.
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00:04:41.630 --> 00:04:44.636
Everybody wanted
to take his class.
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00:04:44.702 --> 00:04:46.974
Video production definitely
was my favorite class,
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00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:49.546
and he was my favorite teacher
for sure.
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His class felt like a break
from the regular school day.
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RACHEL: This was a post
I made on social media.
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But little did I know
that this was the day
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00:05:00.635 --> 00:05:02.739
that would change
my life forever.
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I joined a club,
a club called Drone Club.
85
00:05:05.578 --> 00:05:08.518
And it was started
by my video-audio teacher,
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00:05:08.584 --> 00:05:10.053
Spencer Herron.
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It started out small,
and I was
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the first girl to join.
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We met once a week
after school, every Thursday.
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And this was my outlet.
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I actually enjoyed it.
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00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:23.112
MATT: Spencer had these clubs.
93
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The drone one was the only one
that I really heard
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00:05:25.518 --> 00:05:26.754
that kids were doing much with,
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00:05:26.820 --> 00:05:28.023
but all I believe
they were doing
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was just playing with drones
97
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on the football field.
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00:05:31.563 --> 00:05:33.065
RACHEL: We had a group chat
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00:05:33.132 --> 00:05:35.370
that we basically talked
about music,
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00:05:35.437 --> 00:05:38.644
movies and films, and it
all changed one afternoon,
101
00:05:38.711 --> 00:05:40.046
when Herron asked to have
102
00:05:40.113 --> 00:05:42.484
each of our own numbers
individually
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after hearing
about our group chat.
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His reasoning was
something like
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we had to let him know
if we couldn't make it
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00:05:48.664 --> 00:05:49.900
to that week's meeting or not.
107
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But he did this with everyone,
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00:05:51.703 --> 00:05:54.743
so I thought this was okay,
surely.
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00:05:54.810 --> 00:05:57.214
That is, until I started
receiving text messages
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from him directly.
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00:05:58.985 --> 00:06:01.690
ANDREA: A lot of it was
just about the Drone Club,
112
00:06:01.756 --> 00:06:03.995
equipment and checking in
and checking out.
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Everything was so casual.
114
00:06:07.769 --> 00:06:09.438
Boundaries were being lowered.
115
00:06:09.506 --> 00:06:12.377
Then the text exchanges
with Rachel
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00:06:12.444 --> 00:06:15.985
started to change in tone.
117
00:06:16.052 --> 00:06:18.022
They would talk about movies,
talk about music,
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00:06:18.089 --> 00:06:22.164
and share personal, intimate
details about their life.
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00:06:22.230 --> 00:06:25.103
RACHEL: He complimented my work
and my music taste.
120
00:06:25.169 --> 00:06:28.476
Finding any commonalities
we had was his goal.
121
00:06:28.543 --> 00:06:31.215
I liked a band,
he loved that band.
122
00:06:31.282 --> 00:06:33.119
I liked this movie,
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00:06:33.186 --> 00:06:36.325
well, conveniently,
he just watched it that day.
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00:06:36.392 --> 00:06:39.365
"Double take," I remember
him texting me
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00:06:39.431 --> 00:06:41.302
one day after school,
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00:06:41.369 --> 00:06:43.006
which followed
with a screenshot
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00:06:43.073 --> 00:06:45.444
of a social media profile pic
that I had posted
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00:06:45.511 --> 00:06:46.846
previously beforehand.
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00:06:46.913 --> 00:06:50.353
This is when the compliments
on my looks began.
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He'd say some things like,
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how could someone so pretty
and so smart
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not have a boyfriend?
133
00:06:56.533 --> 00:06:59.940
I was flattered
by the compliments.
134
00:07:00.007 --> 00:07:03.681
I was a teenager who was
very insecure about herself,
135
00:07:03.748 --> 00:07:05.551
and it was something
that he saw
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00:07:05.618 --> 00:07:06.620
and that he took advantage of.
137
00:07:06.686 --> 00:07:08.857
[ominous music]
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00:07:08.924 --> 00:07:10.794
There were
the beginning stages
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00:07:10.861 --> 00:07:12.866
of this predatory
communication.
140
00:07:12.932 --> 00:07:14.936
And this would evolve
into something
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00:07:15.003 --> 00:07:16.740
that you see
right in front of you.
142
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It's my facial expression,
as you can see.
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00:07:18.777 --> 00:07:20.915
And the other faces
you can't see--
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00:07:20.982 --> 00:07:24.154
they're smiling, but I wasn't.
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00:07:24.221 --> 00:07:26.358
And the reality is,
is because he was touching me
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00:07:26.425 --> 00:07:27.795
in that photo.
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No one else saw it.
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[dramatic music]
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♪♪ ♪♪
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00:07:44.094 --> 00:07:47.267
- It started with
subtle touches here and there,
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00:07:47.333 --> 00:07:49.839
putting away equipment
at the end of class
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and briefly touching my hand.
153
00:07:53.446 --> 00:07:56.753
Passing my seat
and quickly touching my hair.
154
00:07:59.726 --> 00:08:02.030
- And then one day, he said
he had feelings for her.
155
00:08:04.268 --> 00:08:06.707
He said, "Let's just have
a conversation
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00:08:06.773 --> 00:08:09.712
and address it"
after school one day.
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00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:12.651
She goes and finds him
to talk about the fact
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00:08:12.718 --> 00:08:15.290
that he has
these big feelings for her.
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00:08:15.356 --> 00:08:18.296
[desolate music]
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00:08:18.363 --> 00:08:19.632
♪♪ ♪♪
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00:08:31.756 --> 00:08:34.596
ANDREA: At this point,
she is a virgin.
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00:08:34.662 --> 00:08:37.434
She doesn't have a ton
of romantic history.
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00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:42.879
And she is facing this adult
who has a wealth of knowledge
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00:08:42.945 --> 00:08:44.816
and experience in that area.
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00:08:47.121 --> 00:08:49.225
RACHEL: When there's
a position of power,
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00:08:49.291 --> 00:08:50.894
there is no consent at all.
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00:08:50.961 --> 00:08:53.534
The reality is
that teenagers and children
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don't know how to say no.
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00:08:55.872 --> 00:08:59.010
Or they don't know
that they can even say no.
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ANDREA:
That made her uncomfortable.
171
00:09:00.815 --> 00:09:03.286
But this
well-respected teacher,
172
00:09:03.352 --> 00:09:08.029
if he is coming to me saying,
"I'm in love with you,
173
00:09:08.096 --> 00:09:11.603
this is meant to be,"
he must really love me.
174
00:09:11.670 --> 00:09:13.840
She believed him.
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00:09:36.051 --> 00:09:38.256
ANDREA:
But it had to be kept secret.
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00:09:38.322 --> 00:09:40.226
She had to change
his name in her phone
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00:09:40.293 --> 00:09:43.032
to the name of one
of her friends.
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00:09:43.099 --> 00:09:44.836
She was really close
with her family.
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00:09:44.903 --> 00:09:47.240
She was lying to her parents.
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00:09:48.811 --> 00:09:51.750
RAMANI: Secret keeping creates
a false sense of intimacy
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00:09:51.817 --> 00:09:53.219
between two people.
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00:09:53.285 --> 00:09:55.725
This relationship
we're experiencing together
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00:09:55.792 --> 00:09:56.826
is special.
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00:09:56.893 --> 00:09:58.564
Most people wanna be
185
00:09:58.630 --> 00:10:00.166
a part of something special.
186
00:10:32.632 --> 00:10:35.938
- It becomes clear,
even with a vulnerable person,
187
00:10:36.005 --> 00:10:37.541
that something's
not right here.
188
00:10:37.608 --> 00:10:40.413
Now the person
in this kind of relationship
189
00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.117
is actually somewhat trapped.
190
00:10:42.184 --> 00:10:43.854
They feel,
"Where can I go with this?
191
00:10:43.921 --> 00:10:46.025
"I can't tell anyone this,
192
00:10:46.092 --> 00:10:48.095
"because if I tell
somebody this,
193
00:10:48.162 --> 00:10:50.868
"someone's gonna get
in trouble, I could look bad,
194
00:10:50.935 --> 00:10:52.872
"this could hurt me
and other opportunities.
195
00:10:52.939 --> 00:10:54.475
My parents may get mad."
196
00:10:54.542 --> 00:10:58.016
Or, most importantly,
"Nobody's gonna believe me."
197
00:10:58.082 --> 00:11:01.222
- I went from a happy,
carefree, and hopeful teenager
198
00:11:01.289 --> 00:11:04.394
to a cynical, angry,
and depressed one.
199
00:11:04.461 --> 00:11:08.268
I completely shut
myself out from people.
200
00:11:08.335 --> 00:11:11.576
I withdrew from my family
and my friends.
201
00:11:11.643 --> 00:11:14.014
And by the time
I was a senior,
202
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:15.383
I had no communication
with anyone
203
00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:17.722
that I was involved with
at school.
204
00:11:17.788 --> 00:11:21.863
I felt like I wasn't deserving
of anything good in my life.
205
00:11:21.930 --> 00:11:23.600
ANDREA: At some point,
you start to feel like,
206
00:11:23.667 --> 00:11:25.704
"If this is a truly loving
relationship,
207
00:11:25.771 --> 00:11:27.040
"I wanna be able to share that
208
00:11:27.107 --> 00:11:28.242
"with the other people
in my life,
209
00:11:28.309 --> 00:11:29.579
the people that I love."
210
00:11:29.646 --> 00:11:33.754
And when you can't share that,
that starts to feel wrong.
211
00:11:33.821 --> 00:11:35.457
[uneasy music]
212
00:11:35.525 --> 00:11:37.828
RACHEL: I hated holding
something like this
213
00:11:37.895 --> 00:11:40.500
from my parents.
I felt dirty.
214
00:11:40.567 --> 00:11:43.373
What would others think of me
if I came out about this?
215
00:11:43.439 --> 00:11:45.243
Would my parents hate me?
216
00:11:45.310 --> 00:11:48.349
I would see them
sitting at a table,
217
00:11:48.415 --> 00:11:51.455
and I would just imagine
myself coming out to them
218
00:11:51.523 --> 00:11:54.061
and telling them the truth
of what was going on.
219
00:11:54.128 --> 00:11:56.800
But, um, I was held back
by the thought of shame
220
00:11:56.867 --> 00:11:59.138
and not being accepted.
221
00:11:59.204 --> 00:12:01.643
And then I realized how I felt
for the past couple of years
222
00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:03.446
wasn't right.
223
00:12:03.514 --> 00:12:05.884
ANDREA: Rachel's relationship
with Spencer
224
00:12:05.951 --> 00:12:09.424
spanned about three years.
225
00:12:09.491 --> 00:12:12.731
But her senior year,
he was deployed.
226
00:12:12.798 --> 00:12:15.537
And it was the first time
that Rachel felt
227
00:12:15.604 --> 00:12:17.875
this sense of relief.
228
00:12:26.693 --> 00:12:28.228
I wasn't being watched,
229
00:12:28.295 --> 00:12:29.732
and I wasn't
being controlled anymore.
230
00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:31.202
I wasn't under his thumb.
231
00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.305
This gave me the clarity
I needed
232
00:12:33.372 --> 00:12:36.546
to see how things
weren't right:
233
00:12:36.613 --> 00:12:39.986
the depression, uh, angry
all the time for no reason.
234
00:12:40.053 --> 00:12:41.990
Then I just couldn't
take it anymore.
235
00:12:42.056 --> 00:12:44.127
[dramatic music]
236
00:12:44.194 --> 00:12:46.398
ANDREA: He would brag
to Rachel
237
00:12:46.465 --> 00:12:49.839
about having
other relationships.
238
00:12:49.906 --> 00:12:53.747
At one point,
he shared with her a story
239
00:12:53.813 --> 00:12:55.851
about having a threesome.
240
00:12:55.918 --> 00:12:58.055
And one day,
she was in a class
241
00:12:58.122 --> 00:13:00.326
where they were talking
about STDs.
242
00:13:11.248 --> 00:13:12.819
- And that's when she decided
243
00:13:12.885 --> 00:13:14.354
that she needed to tell
her parents.
244
00:13:17.194 --> 00:13:20.000
- I sat my mom down
on Mother's Day of 2018
245
00:13:20.066 --> 00:13:21.970
and told her initially
that I was afraid
246
00:13:22.036 --> 00:13:23.840
I potentially had an STD.
247
00:13:25.410 --> 00:13:28.851
She'd asked if I had had sex
with a boy from school.
248
00:13:28.917 --> 00:13:33.125
I told her no, and then I said
his name, Coach Herron.
249
00:13:33.192 --> 00:13:35.831
I will never forget
the look on her face
250
00:13:35.897 --> 00:13:37.769
when I told her his name.
251
00:13:37.835 --> 00:13:40.574
[dramatic music]
252
00:13:40.641 --> 00:13:42.545
She told me,
"I have to tell your dad."
253
00:13:42.612 --> 00:13:44.448
And out of embarrassment,
I cried,
254
00:13:44.515 --> 00:13:47.120
and I pleaded with her,
and I said, "Don't tell him."
255
00:13:47.187 --> 00:13:50.192
She went ahead and took
my dad aside
256
00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:52.799
and said that they had to go
for a drive.
257
00:13:52.865 --> 00:13:56.773
And I didn't see them
for hours after that.
258
00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:58.877
To this day, I never asked
how that drive went
259
00:13:58.944 --> 00:14:00.714
between my mom and my dad.
260
00:14:00.781 --> 00:14:03.620
They came back home, and they
both sat me down and said
261
00:14:03.687 --> 00:14:04.722
I needed to go to the police.
262
00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:07.126
And all I could say was "Okay."
263
00:14:09.064 --> 00:14:11.235
- A Cobb County Teacher
of the Year nominee
264
00:14:11.301 --> 00:14:13.707
accused of sexual assault
involving a student.
265
00:14:13.773 --> 00:14:16.879
REPORTER: This is the mug shot
of 48-year-old Spencer Herron.
266
00:14:16.946 --> 00:14:17.882
REPORTER 2: A victim told
police
267
00:14:17.949 --> 00:14:19.952
she engaged in unprotected sex
268
00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:22.023
at Herron's request
multiple times,
269
00:14:22.089 --> 00:14:23.626
beginning in January
of last year.
270
00:14:23.693 --> 00:14:25.029
REPORTER 3:
Two former students,
271
00:14:25.096 --> 00:14:26.600
who did not want
to go on camera,
272
00:14:26.666 --> 00:14:28.904
told me Herron was
a great coach and teacher.
273
00:14:28.971 --> 00:14:31.643
The other student added
Herron was a professional
274
00:14:31.709 --> 00:14:32.911
and kind-hearted.
275
00:14:32.978 --> 00:14:34.181
She told me
she does not believe
276
00:14:34.248 --> 00:14:36.352
the allegations are true.
277
00:14:36.418 --> 00:14:38.957
MICHIKA: When I first
found out about his arrest,
278
00:14:39.024 --> 00:14:41.997
I just couldn't believe
that something like this
279
00:14:42.064 --> 00:14:43.199
could even happen.
280
00:14:43.265 --> 00:14:45.036
- Most people weren't
281
00:14:45.103 --> 00:14:47.608
too interested
in believing that
282
00:14:47.674 --> 00:14:49.746
because of the impression
that a lot of us had
283
00:14:49.813 --> 00:14:51.181
of Spencer Herron.
284
00:14:51.248 --> 00:14:53.520
He was Teacher
of the Year, you know.
285
00:14:53.586 --> 00:14:55.490
MATT:
I was hired about two months
286
00:14:55.557 --> 00:14:57.528
after Spencer Herron
got arrested.
287
00:14:57.595 --> 00:15:00.066
And so, when I first started
my new program at Kell,
288
00:15:00.132 --> 00:15:02.270
there was a lot of backlash.
289
00:15:02.337 --> 00:15:04.174
There was definitely
a large group of students
290
00:15:04.241 --> 00:15:06.278
who really missed
the old program,
291
00:15:06.345 --> 00:15:07.982
really missed the old teacher.
292
00:15:08.048 --> 00:15:09.952
I don't think they cared
about the allegations
293
00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:11.421
and all the stories.
294
00:15:11.488 --> 00:15:13.593
When I started talking
to other faculty members
295
00:15:13.660 --> 00:15:14.595
about Spencer,
296
00:15:14.662 --> 00:15:17.968
it was nothing
but glowing reviews,
297
00:15:18.035 --> 00:15:19.104
all these positive things
298
00:15:19.171 --> 00:15:20.406
about how great
his program was,
299
00:15:20.473 --> 00:15:22.310
how much the kids
loved his program,
300
00:15:22.377 --> 00:15:24.649
that he was the cool teacher
amongst the students
301
00:15:24.716 --> 00:15:26.552
and the faculty.
302
00:15:26.619 --> 00:15:29.124
A couple male teachers,
they would say,
303
00:15:29.190 --> 00:15:31.461
"There's two sides
to every story."
304
00:15:31.529 --> 00:15:34.434
♪♪ ♪♪
305
00:15:34.502 --> 00:15:37.340
RACHEL: I was in a situation
where I was in his office
306
00:15:37.406 --> 00:15:39.612
and he was holding my hand.
307
00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:44.154
And a teacher walked in
and saw it, looked at us both,
308
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:46.225
and walked out.
309
00:15:46.291 --> 00:15:48.462
And I never saw
that teacher again.
310
00:15:48.530 --> 00:15:51.368
♪♪ ♪♪
311
00:15:51.435 --> 00:15:53.338
MATT: I was just baffled.
312
00:15:53.405 --> 00:15:54.642
We're reading articles
313
00:15:54.709 --> 00:15:56.445
about him assaulting
a student,
314
00:15:56.513 --> 00:15:58.784
and I still couldn't get
a negative story
315
00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.288
out of anybody.
316
00:16:01.354 --> 00:16:03.994
RACHEL: Overall, there's
a fear of retribution,
317
00:16:04.060 --> 00:16:06.966
fear of losing their job, fear
of losing their credibility
318
00:16:07.033 --> 00:16:09.437
or getting
a coworker in trouble.
319
00:16:09.505 --> 00:16:13.613
It's that mentality
of protecting one another.
320
00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:15.851
ANDREA: A lot of teachers
and faculty came
321
00:16:15.917 --> 00:16:19.424
to Spencer Herron's defense
322
00:16:19.491 --> 00:16:22.698
because people trusted him.
323
00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:24.636
JENIFER:
A lot of people thought,
324
00:16:24.702 --> 00:16:26.438
"Oh, the student--
325
00:16:26.506 --> 00:16:29.410
"she's probably just trying
to accuse him
326
00:16:29.477 --> 00:16:31.048
"of something
that didn't really happen,
327
00:16:31.114 --> 00:16:34.120
or maybe she had pursued
and she was hurt now."
328
00:16:36.291 --> 00:16:38.864
- I did see some
of that victim blaming.
329
00:16:38.931 --> 00:16:41.135
My friend had said,
"I just don't understand
330
00:16:41.202 --> 00:16:42.872
"how that girl could do that.
331
00:16:42.938 --> 00:16:46.144
"Do your parents not teach you
to, like, be more careful
332
00:16:46.211 --> 00:16:47.781
and not go to a hotel
with a grown man?"
333
00:17:05.951 --> 00:17:08.155
[uneasy music]
334
00:17:08.222 --> 00:17:09.992
♪♪ ♪♪
335
00:17:10.059 --> 00:17:11.261
RACHEL:
After I came forward,
336
00:17:11.328 --> 00:17:13.800
I had victim-shaming
commentary online
337
00:17:13.867 --> 00:17:16.973
such as, "She knew
what she was doing."
338
00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:18.142
"What was she wearing?"
339
00:17:18.208 --> 00:17:19.745
"It was her hormones."
340
00:17:19.812 --> 00:17:21.315
"She wanted him."
341
00:17:21.381 --> 00:17:24.722
I even saw the question,
"Was she hot enough?"
342
00:17:24.789 --> 00:17:27.093
And these people
didn't know me from scratch.
343
00:17:27.159 --> 00:17:30.901
Inappropriate relationships
between students and teachers
344
00:17:30.968 --> 00:17:33.038
are not romantic.
345
00:17:33.105 --> 00:17:35.811
I was made to feel
like an adult.
346
00:17:35.878 --> 00:17:38.951
I was having to pretend to be
more grown than I was.
347
00:17:39.017 --> 00:17:42.256
And on top of that, I was made
to look like a villain.
348
00:17:44.728 --> 00:17:46.866
ANDREA: She was gonna take
this to the grave.
349
00:17:46.933 --> 00:17:51.676
But the bravery of just sharing
the situation was tremendous.
350
00:17:51.743 --> 00:17:55.817
And by her coming forward,
it empowered others to say,
351
00:17:55.884 --> 00:17:57.622
"Something's not right here."
352
00:17:57.688 --> 00:17:58.991
[dramatic music]
353
00:17:59.057 --> 00:18:01.295
KEELY: So my video production
classes with Spencer
354
00:18:01.361 --> 00:18:02.898
were really fun.
355
00:18:02.965 --> 00:18:04.300
He was the cool teacher.
356
00:18:04.367 --> 00:18:07.173
Everyone really liked him.
357
00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.545
It's weird, 'cause there was
this dual feeling of shock.
358
00:18:09.612 --> 00:18:12.149
Like, I didn't really wanna
believe it either,
359
00:18:12.216 --> 00:18:14.655
but also, I guess
I always knew
360
00:18:14.722 --> 00:18:16.859
he was inappropriate
in some way,
361
00:18:16.926 --> 00:18:19.899
even though I would have hated
to admit it back then.
362
00:18:19.966 --> 00:18:21.101
- Teacher bribes?
363
00:18:21.168 --> 00:18:22.905
They're gonna get
a passing grade.
364
00:18:22.971 --> 00:18:25.711
Depends on what they bring me
as to how high the grade.
365
00:18:25.778 --> 00:18:27.982
KEELY: Kids knew that they
could get away with stuff
366
00:18:28.048 --> 00:18:30.386
with him.
I knew that.
367
00:18:30.452 --> 00:18:31.789
I tended to skip his class.
368
00:18:31.856 --> 00:18:33.326
And he--he would never tell
on you
369
00:18:33.392 --> 00:18:35.163
or anything like that.
370
00:18:35.229 --> 00:18:39.805
In the moment, I did feel
like I was special.
371
00:18:39.872 --> 00:18:42.678
And also, I did self-harm,
and I'm okay to admit that.
372
00:18:42.745 --> 00:18:44.582
And it was something
that he had noticed.
373
00:18:44.649 --> 00:18:46.318
And he didn't tell
a guidance counselor
374
00:18:46.385 --> 00:18:49.992
or, like, the administration
or my parents or anybody.
375
00:18:50.059 --> 00:18:52.096
As a kid, I appreciated it.
376
00:18:52.163 --> 00:18:53.766
But he should have.
377
00:18:53.833 --> 00:18:57.474
If they're keeping secrets
or asking you to keep secrets,
378
00:18:57.541 --> 00:18:58.843
there's something not right.
379
00:18:58.910 --> 00:19:00.781
Because an adult
who really cares about you
380
00:19:00.847 --> 00:19:01.782
is not gonna do that.
381
00:19:01.849 --> 00:19:04.588
They're gonna want you
to get help.
382
00:19:04.655 --> 00:19:06.626
MATT: When I first started
my new program,
383
00:19:06.693 --> 00:19:09.097
seniors came in
on the first day that I had,
384
00:19:09.164 --> 00:19:10.567
and they were all so upset
385
00:19:10.634 --> 00:19:12.003
that the room had changed.
386
00:19:12.070 --> 00:19:13.707
They were like,
"Where's the Elvis blanket?"
387
00:19:13.774 --> 00:19:16.779
He would hang the blanket
over his office window.
388
00:19:16.846 --> 00:19:19.785
Why did he hang a blanket
over his window?
389
00:19:19.852 --> 00:19:21.556
And they go, "Oh,
so he didn't want students
390
00:19:21.623 --> 00:19:22.924
looking in the office."
391
00:19:24.862 --> 00:19:27.467
It just seemed so awful
and strange
392
00:19:27.535 --> 00:19:29.104
that no one noticed
393
00:19:29.171 --> 00:19:33.379
that this teacher had coverings
over his windows, um,
394
00:19:33.445 --> 00:19:34.882
during the school day
and all the time.
395
00:19:34.949 --> 00:19:36.418
[eerie music]
396
00:19:36.484 --> 00:19:38.990
As I was clearing out the room
and trying to make it my own,
397
00:19:39.056 --> 00:19:40.492
I went
through the filing cabinets,
398
00:19:40.560 --> 00:19:42.931
and I found
an email correspondence
399
00:19:42.998 --> 00:19:44.902
between him and a contact
in LA
400
00:19:44.969 --> 00:19:47.574
that, you know, boiled down
to Spencer's interest
401
00:19:47.641 --> 00:19:49.912
in possibly getting
into the porn industry.
402
00:19:49.979 --> 00:19:52.250
♪♪ ♪♪
403
00:19:52.317 --> 00:19:53.753
And it was just shocking.
404
00:19:53.820 --> 00:19:55.490
Why would you print
these emails
405
00:19:55.557 --> 00:19:56.893
and keep them
in your filing cabinet
406
00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.297
at a school?
407
00:19:59.363 --> 00:20:01.134
RACHEL:
This is how grooming works:
408
00:20:01.201 --> 00:20:02.938
desensitizing the child,
409
00:20:03.005 --> 00:20:06.444
mentioning pornography,
masturbation,
410
00:20:06.512 --> 00:20:10.085
anything that would be
uncomfortable to the child,
411
00:20:10.152 --> 00:20:12.023
to where pushing
those boundaries
412
00:20:12.090 --> 00:20:13.425
would become normalized.
413
00:20:13.492 --> 00:20:16.732
♪♪ ♪♪
414
00:20:22.176 --> 00:20:26.786
- This note is dated May 2008,
which was when I graduated.
415
00:20:26.853 --> 00:20:32.463
It says, "Michika, I can't say
goodbye, so I won't even try.
416
00:20:32.530 --> 00:20:36.237
"I hope we can stay friends,
work together,
417
00:20:36.304 --> 00:20:39.177
"and both grow
in video production.
418
00:20:39.244 --> 00:20:44.320
"I want to thank you
for being you.
419
00:20:44.387 --> 00:20:47.994
"There has never been one
like you,
420
00:20:48.061 --> 00:20:50.333
nor will there ever."
421
00:20:50.399 --> 00:20:54.608
Sorry, his handwriting
is kind of wacky.
422
00:20:54.675 --> 00:20:58.482
"I know without a doubt
that you will succeed
423
00:20:58.550 --> 00:21:01.522
"in whatever you desire
to try.
424
00:21:01.589 --> 00:21:06.498
"I only hope to get to share
it with you someday.
425
00:21:06.566 --> 00:21:08.368
"I already miss you.
426
00:21:08.435 --> 00:21:11.174
Much love, Coach Herron."
427
00:21:11.241 --> 00:21:15.315
♪♪ ♪♪
428
00:21:15.382 --> 00:21:20.393
When I read this
back when I was 17,
429
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:22.865
it made me feel
really special.
430
00:21:22.932 --> 00:21:26.606
None of my other teachers
wrote me a goodbye letter.
431
00:21:26.672 --> 00:21:31.181
But reading it now
is like,
432
00:21:31.248 --> 00:21:33.720
it's kind of a weird way
to, like,
433
00:21:33.786 --> 00:21:35.523
talk to a student, you know?
434
00:21:35.590 --> 00:21:38.362
♪♪ ♪♪
435
00:21:38.428 --> 00:21:43.640
After I graduated, I got, like,
a few messages on Facebook
436
00:21:43.706 --> 00:21:44.908
from him.
437
00:21:44.975 --> 00:21:46.879
The conversation
each time would end
438
00:21:46.946 --> 00:21:50.419
with him suggesting
that we go get coffee
439
00:21:50.486 --> 00:21:52.557
sometime to catch up.
440
00:21:53.693 --> 00:21:55.396
That never ended up happening.
441
00:21:56.331 --> 00:22:00.272
I can believe now that he did
have ulterior motives
442
00:22:00.339 --> 00:22:03.478
other than just saying
a friendly hello
443
00:22:03.546 --> 00:22:05.516
to a former student.
444
00:22:06.852 --> 00:22:09.558
ANDREA:
Jen found messages
445
00:22:09.625 --> 00:22:12.565
between him
and other former students.
446
00:22:12.631 --> 00:22:15.670
Not just one,
not just two, dozens.
447
00:22:15.737 --> 00:22:18.108
He was constantly
just cultivating
448
00:22:18.174 --> 00:22:21.214
as many opportunities
as possible.
449
00:22:21.281 --> 00:22:26.959
- After I graduated, Spencer
did message me on Facebook.
450
00:22:27.026 --> 00:22:29.698
And I was really thinking
it was a fake account.
451
00:22:29.765 --> 00:22:31.000
Here's this popular teacher
452
00:22:31.067 --> 00:22:33.372
that all
of the female students thought
453
00:22:33.438 --> 00:22:34.842
was super attractive,
454
00:22:34.908 --> 00:22:38.015
and, you know, he was messaging
me, an 18-year-old.
455
00:22:38.081 --> 00:22:41.722
He kept saying, "So cool
to watch you mature and grow."
456
00:22:43.693 --> 00:22:46.431
And "I was always fond of you."
457
00:22:48.135 --> 00:22:49.605
Then he came to my job.
458
00:22:50.808 --> 00:22:53.078
When he came in, he hugged me.
459
00:22:53.144 --> 00:22:55.049
It was kind of a longer hug
460
00:22:55.115 --> 00:22:57.353
than I would have been
comfortable with.
461
00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:00.627
And he very audibly sniffed me.
462
00:23:02.397 --> 00:23:04.635
And my manager noticed.
463
00:23:04.701 --> 00:23:06.606
And when Spencer left,
464
00:23:06.673 --> 00:23:08.208
he asked me,
"Who was that guy?"
465
00:23:08.275 --> 00:23:10.647
♪♪ ♪♪
466
00:23:10.714 --> 00:23:12.584
That was kind of
where it ceased,
467
00:23:12.651 --> 00:23:15.757
and then I went
and blocked his number.
468
00:23:15.823 --> 00:23:19.130
- In the end, nothing happened
with Michika or Keely.
469
00:23:19.197 --> 00:23:20.733
They both turned him down.
470
00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:23.305
But that wasn't
the case for some.
471
00:23:23.372 --> 00:23:26.912
And there were former students
that he had affairs with.
472
00:23:28.048 --> 00:23:30.019
RAMANI:
These earlier relationships
473
00:23:30.086 --> 00:23:31.187
with teenage girls,
474
00:23:31.254 --> 00:23:33.527
waiting until they turned 18.
475
00:23:33.593 --> 00:23:37.467
As some of those were actually
yielding the results he wanted
476
00:23:37.535 --> 00:23:39.470
and he wasn't getting caught,
477
00:23:39.538 --> 00:23:42.510
that then led
to the escalation.
478
00:24:03.018 --> 00:24:06.625
RAMANI: Advantaging trust
and vulnerability
479
00:24:06.692 --> 00:24:09.565
and using things
that are actually important
480
00:24:09.632 --> 00:24:12.738
in relationships,
like feeling special and value
481
00:24:12.805 --> 00:24:16.846
and chosen, and instead,
distorting those
482
00:24:16.912 --> 00:24:19.751
and pathologizing those
to take advantage of people.
483
00:24:19.818 --> 00:24:21.254
- And that's what
these predators do,
484
00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:24.862
is they groom you
by providing things for you,
485
00:24:24.929 --> 00:24:27.366
doing all these things
and get to the point where,
486
00:24:27.433 --> 00:24:28.569
"Well, I've done
all this for you.
487
00:24:28.636 --> 00:24:30.139
Now I need you to do
something for me."
488
00:24:30.205 --> 00:24:33.245
And boom, next thing you know,
it's sexual assault.
489
00:24:33.312 --> 00:24:38.656
- This is a toxic dynamic that
everybody needs to know about.
490
00:24:38.723 --> 00:24:40.325
RACHEL:
The grooming, it's a process.
491
00:24:40.392 --> 00:24:42.964
Usually, people who are
in positions of power,
492
00:24:43.031 --> 00:24:45.537
such as coaches, teachers,
religious leaders...
493
00:24:45.604 --> 00:24:47.139
They first develop
an attraction
494
00:24:47.206 --> 00:24:48.743
to a specific child.
495
00:24:50.346 --> 00:24:52.350
RAMANI: It's almost
like predator glasses.
496
00:24:52.417 --> 00:24:55.155
[eerie music]
497
00:24:55.222 --> 00:25:00.365
He was often focusing
on young women who were shy,
498
00:25:00.432 --> 00:25:02.303
may not have had
as many friends,
499
00:25:02.370 --> 00:25:05.844
may not have sort of fit
conventional standards
500
00:25:05.911 --> 00:25:09.217
of what makes a gal popular
in high school.
501
00:25:09.284 --> 00:25:12.691
And that vulnerability
is what was making them
502
00:25:12.758 --> 00:25:15.530
a sort of viable target.
503
00:25:15.597 --> 00:25:16.532
FLYNN:
It's almost like watching
504
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:17.567
an animal show channel
505
00:25:17.634 --> 00:25:19.571
where the lion is
sitting there,
506
00:25:19.638 --> 00:25:21.040
looking for the weakest person.
507
00:25:30.226 --> 00:25:31.662
RAMANI:
You have somebody who was
508
00:25:31.729 --> 00:25:34.300
the Teacher of the Year twice,
509
00:25:34.366 --> 00:25:36.437
who was beloved by students
510
00:25:36.505 --> 00:25:38.275
and many colleagues.
511
00:25:38.342 --> 00:25:40.747
And now I want you to stop
and sit down and think
512
00:25:40.813 --> 00:25:42.584
you're a teenage girl.
513
00:25:42.651 --> 00:25:44.487
And now I want you
to stop and think
514
00:25:44.555 --> 00:25:46.625
about what it would feel like
515
00:25:46.692 --> 00:25:50.132
to be the one who calls
that teacher out.
516
00:25:50.199 --> 00:25:52.470
That is nothing
short of miraculous.
517
00:25:52.538 --> 00:25:55.075
Most survivors don't feel
safe enough to speak out,
518
00:25:55.142 --> 00:25:57.279
and I completely
understand that,
519
00:25:57.346 --> 00:25:59.017
because what Rachel did
520
00:25:59.083 --> 00:26:02.524
didn't come
without incredible harm
521
00:26:02.591 --> 00:26:04.562
and risk and anguish for her.
522
00:26:04.628 --> 00:26:07.534
[melancholy music]
523
00:26:07.601 --> 00:26:10.338
♪♪ ♪♪
524
00:26:30.746 --> 00:26:32.249
KEELY:
He raped that student.
525
00:26:32.316 --> 00:26:35.389
I know that Georgia
doesn't wanna call it that,
526
00:26:35.456 --> 00:26:39.932
but that's what it is
when someone can't consent.
527
00:26:39.999 --> 00:26:41.803
So if she hadn't come forward,
528
00:26:41.869 --> 00:26:44.440
what would he have done
to someone else?
529
00:26:44.508 --> 00:26:45.844
It could have been me.
530
00:26:45.911 --> 00:26:47.079
She's a hero.
531
00:26:48.850 --> 00:26:50.753
RACHEL: Although this happened
to me and my family,
532
00:26:50.820 --> 00:26:53.860
it is none other
than my responsibility to heal,
533
00:26:53.926 --> 00:26:56.231
and I know that, but we all
bear the responsibility
534
00:26:56.298 --> 00:26:58.168
of protecting children
in the school system.
535
00:27:00.072 --> 00:27:01.440
RAE: I know I may never
536
00:27:01.508 --> 00:27:02.911
actually meet her face to face,
537
00:27:02.978 --> 00:27:06.885
but I hope that she sees this
and know
538
00:27:06.952 --> 00:27:10.125
how courageous I think
that she is
539
00:27:10.192 --> 00:27:12.263
for what she did
and what she took on.
540
00:27:12.329 --> 00:27:15.235
[uplifting music]
541
00:27:15.302 --> 00:27:17.206
♪♪ ♪♪
542
00:27:17.272 --> 00:27:19.177
- I want to thank you all
for being here today
543
00:27:19.243 --> 00:27:22.784
and thank you for taking
the time to listen to me.
544
00:27:22.850 --> 00:27:25.690
Thank you.
[applause]
545
00:27:28.228 --> 00:27:34.541
- I am so sorry that she went
through that experience,
546
00:27:34.608 --> 00:27:39.283
knowing that it could have
been me 25 years earlier.
547
00:27:42.791 --> 00:27:45.261
JENIFER:
Spence wrote me one letter
548
00:27:45.328 --> 00:27:49.804
addressing the sexual assault
of the student.
549
00:27:49.871 --> 00:27:56.719
And he blamed the student
for what happened.
550
00:27:56.785 --> 00:27:58.388
[dramatic music]
551
00:27:58.455 --> 00:28:01.394
He said, "I've never
ever looked at her
552
00:28:01.461 --> 00:28:03.933
"in any inappropriate way.
553
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.006
"I can remember Rachel
starting to stare at me,
554
00:28:07.073 --> 00:28:10.746
"longer looks, more often.
555
00:28:10.813 --> 00:28:14.153
"She was being very obvious.
556
00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:16.959
"I was packing up to go
and was in my office,
557
00:28:17.026 --> 00:28:19.263
and she surprised me.
558
00:28:19.330 --> 00:28:22.871
"I think she said something
like, 'What are you doing?'
559
00:28:22.938 --> 00:28:25.141
"'I'm going home,' I said.
560
00:28:25.208 --> 00:28:28.549
"'That's too bad,'
she responded.
561
00:28:28.616 --> 00:28:31.187
"Then I remember a kiss.
562
00:28:31.254 --> 00:28:34.460
"She was very aggressive
most of the time.
563
00:28:34.528 --> 00:28:38.168
"I was sure it was something
she was super familiar with.
564
00:28:38.235 --> 00:28:40.940
I was never taking
some kind of leading role."
565
00:28:43.177 --> 00:28:45.382
Spence denied
ever being forceful.
566
00:28:45.448 --> 00:28:47.486
In fact, he said,
567
00:28:47.554 --> 00:28:49.090
"I'm not the monster
568
00:28:49.157 --> 00:28:51.160
that she's making me out
to be."
569
00:28:53.298 --> 00:28:55.302
How can you not
take responsibility
570
00:28:55.369 --> 00:28:57.439
for something like that?
571
00:28:57.507 --> 00:28:59.476
Wake up.
You are a teacher.
572
00:29:02.551 --> 00:29:05.757
About two years
after all of that,
573
00:29:05.823 --> 00:29:07.560
he called me from prison.
574
00:29:07.627 --> 00:29:10.065
♪♪ ♪♪
575
00:29:10.132 --> 00:29:11.267
RECORDED MESSAGE:
To accept charges
576
00:29:11.333 --> 00:29:13.171
and consent
to this recorded call,
577
00:29:13.238 --> 00:29:14.541
press 1.
578
00:29:14.608 --> 00:29:16.444
You may start
the conversation now.
579
00:29:42.564 --> 00:29:45.368
[somber music]
580
00:29:45.435 --> 00:29:46.972
♪♪ ♪♪
581
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.241
JENIFER:
It had been a few years
582
00:29:48.308 --> 00:29:50.546
since I had spoken to Spencer.
583
00:29:50.613 --> 00:29:54.453
I was hoping that
maybe he had changed
584
00:29:54.521 --> 00:29:58.529
and started to take
more accountability
585
00:29:58.596 --> 00:29:59.964
for what he had done.
586
00:30:01.100 --> 00:30:03.973
I didn't know
what I was walking into.
587
00:30:04.040 --> 00:30:06.878
♪♪ ♪♪
588
00:31:00.352 --> 00:31:02.389
[investigatory music]
589
00:31:02.455 --> 00:31:05.061
ANDREA:
We know that he was on email,
590
00:31:05.128 --> 00:31:10.873
Facebook Messenger, text,
591
00:31:10.940 --> 00:31:13.244
persistently reaching out
to people
592
00:31:13.311 --> 00:31:15.583
to create opportunities.
593
00:31:47.179 --> 00:31:49.050
JENIFER: So in his mind,
594
00:31:49.117 --> 00:31:53.191
he's made it
somehow not so bad,
595
00:31:53.258 --> 00:31:55.629
and what he did not so wrong.
596
00:32:10.527 --> 00:32:14.801
- He was saying to Jenifer,
"That's what bad is,
597
00:32:14.867 --> 00:32:17.038
so you see, I'm not so bad."
598
00:32:28.695 --> 00:32:31.602
- He's trying to say,
"It could be worse.
599
00:32:31.669 --> 00:32:32.703
It could be this."
600
00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:49.504
JENIFER: You don't get healed
from that right away.
601
00:32:49.571 --> 00:32:53.512
He's incapable
of understanding
602
00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:58.989
how big his problem
or his issues are.
603
00:33:09.309 --> 00:33:13.417
That was really
his main concern, was himself.
604
00:33:26.110 --> 00:33:27.847
ANDREA: There was a chance
that he was up for parole
605
00:33:27.914 --> 00:33:31.555
months sooner, and Rachel wrote
the parole board,
606
00:33:31.622 --> 00:33:33.491
petitioning for him to stay
behind bars.
607
00:34:15.108 --> 00:34:18.481
- The parole board took
that letter really seriously.
608
00:34:18.549 --> 00:34:22.222
And an early release
was denied.
609
00:34:39.758 --> 00:34:42.329
- When you say "stay below
the radar," what do you mean?
610
00:34:42.395 --> 00:34:45.670
You're not gonna go back
to your old behavior?
611
00:34:45.737 --> 00:34:48.776
Because he didn't say,
"I'm gonna change my ways.
612
00:34:48.843 --> 00:34:50.311
I'm gonna get therapy."
613
00:34:50.378 --> 00:34:52.850
It was about
not getting caught again.
614
00:35:00.398 --> 00:35:01.801
CALL SYSTEM:
You have one minute left.
615
00:35:12.623 --> 00:35:14.327
SINGER: ♪♪ Don't you know that
you gotta take
616
00:35:14.393 --> 00:35:15.697
♪♪ Some of the blame? ♪♪
617
00:35:15.763 --> 00:35:17.967
- You don't just move on
from something like this.
618
00:35:18.034 --> 00:35:19.871
SINGER:
♪♪ You said those unkind words ♪♪
619
00:35:19.938 --> 00:35:22.075
♪♪ 'Cause you think
it's a game ♪♪
620
00:35:22.142 --> 00:35:23.344
♪♪ Well, it's not ♪♪
621
00:35:23.411 --> 00:35:24.848
JENIFER:
What Spence doesn't realize
622
00:35:24.915 --> 00:35:27.019
is that this is gonna have
an impact
623
00:35:27.086 --> 00:35:29.757
on so many people
for such a long time.
624
00:35:29.824 --> 00:35:33.866
SINGER:
♪♪ Yeah, it's got real serious ♪♪
625
00:35:33.933 --> 00:35:35.969
- People aren't just gonna get
over it
626
00:35:36.036 --> 00:35:37.339
like he would like for them to.
627
00:35:37.406 --> 00:35:39.677
♪♪ ♪♪
628
00:35:43.217 --> 00:35:45.322
JENIFER: I don't need to talk
to Spence anymore.
629
00:35:45.388 --> 00:35:47.827
I was just hoping
that he would somehow
630
00:35:47.894 --> 00:35:54.608
explain everything and give me
an answer to why he did this.
631
00:35:54.675 --> 00:35:58.048
SINGER: ♪♪ You could be
anything you like ♪♪
632
00:35:58.114 --> 00:36:00.084
- I never got those answers.
633
00:36:00.151 --> 00:36:04.694
SINGER: ♪♪ So why do you choose
to be so unkind? ♪♪
634
00:36:08.134 --> 00:36:10.573
[suspenseful music]
635
00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:13.244
ANDREA: Spencer was
eventually granted parole
636
00:36:13.310 --> 00:36:16.250
in the summer of 2022.
637
00:36:18.154 --> 00:36:20.893
He had done what he was told
he had to do.
638
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.766
A clean slate,
that's what he was after.
639
00:36:23.833 --> 00:36:27.573
However, he'll still
serve 15 years' probation.
640
00:36:27.640 --> 00:36:31.247
He'll be registered
as a sex offender.
641
00:36:31.314 --> 00:36:34.921
♪♪ ♪♪
642
00:36:34.987 --> 00:36:36.825
[melancholy music]
643
00:36:36.892 --> 00:36:39.898
- When I found out
that Spencer had been released,
644
00:36:39.964 --> 00:36:41.968
it was, uh, shocking.
645
00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:45.976
APRIL: I don't think
five years is enough
646
00:36:46.043 --> 00:36:47.947
for the magnitude of the crime,
647
00:36:48.014 --> 00:36:50.819
especially against
such a young person.
648
00:36:50.886 --> 00:36:52.322
FLYNN:
The law would require him
649
00:36:52.389 --> 00:36:54.493
to register as a sex offender,
650
00:36:54.561 --> 00:36:56.698
make sure that he's not
allowed to be around children
651
00:36:56.765 --> 00:37:00.740
under the age of 18, whether
it be work, where he lives.
652
00:37:00.807 --> 00:37:03.344
All those things would apply.
653
00:37:03.411 --> 00:37:06.785
- Being a mom and having
a daughter, it's scary.
654
00:37:06.852 --> 00:37:09.925
It's very scary to think
that this situation
655
00:37:09.991 --> 00:37:12.028
could happen pretty easily.
656
00:37:14.634 --> 00:37:15.803
ANDREA:
I know that Spencer's out.
657
00:37:15.870 --> 00:37:17.973
He's spending time
with family.
658
00:37:18.040 --> 00:37:20.813
And that's been
really hard for Jen.
659
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:26.758
I think that she assumed
that when he got out of jail,
660
00:37:26.824 --> 00:37:30.766
it wouldn't necessarily be
a soft landing.
661
00:37:30.833 --> 00:37:33.705
And I think that he's landed
pretty comfortably,
662
00:37:33.772 --> 00:37:37.045
and that's been hard
for her to digest.
663
00:37:37.112 --> 00:37:40.117
RAMANI: When someone behaves
as badly as Spencer did,
664
00:37:40.184 --> 00:37:43.357
I use the analogy
of sort of an asteroid hitting.
665
00:37:43.424 --> 00:37:44.895
It's not just about the impact,
666
00:37:44.961 --> 00:37:46.998
it's not just
about the suddenness,
667
00:37:47.065 --> 00:37:49.403
but it's about the blast zone.
668
00:37:49.470 --> 00:37:51.508
There was
so much collateral damage
669
00:37:51.575 --> 00:37:53.578
of other people hurt,
670
00:37:53.645 --> 00:37:55.481
it was absolutely
extraordinary.
671
00:37:57.821 --> 00:38:00.192
JEFFREY: There was
an abruptness to this.
672
00:38:00.258 --> 00:38:06.270
We never saw or spoke
to Spence after this happened.
673
00:38:06.336 --> 00:38:09.911
It's like you have this person
in your life one day,
674
00:38:09.978 --> 00:38:13.350
and then he's never
in your life again.
675
00:38:16.691 --> 00:38:19.764
- The whole thing is just
absolutely heartbreaking
676
00:38:19.831 --> 00:38:22.335
across the board.
677
00:38:23.304 --> 00:38:27.312
- They were both my friend,
and so I felt betrayed, too,
678
00:38:27.379 --> 00:38:29.116
because someone
that I thought I knew
679
00:38:29.182 --> 00:38:30.686
was completely different.
680
00:38:30.752 --> 00:38:36.631
BECKY SHAHEEN: ♪♪ When you break
the truth down ♪♪
681
00:38:36.698 --> 00:38:38.836
- Apparently,
the Spencer I know,
682
00:38:38.903 --> 00:38:41.808
the person I know,
doesn't exist.
683
00:38:41.875 --> 00:38:44.881
BECKY SHAHEEN:
♪♪ Be careful what you find ♪♪
684
00:38:44.948 --> 00:38:47.520
♪♪ Careful what ♪♪
685
00:38:47.587 --> 00:38:49.290
- All of the experiences
686
00:38:49.356 --> 00:38:51.360
that so many other people
had with him,
687
00:38:51.427 --> 00:38:53.965
I didn't have
those experiences.
688
00:38:55.468 --> 00:39:00.779
So why do I feel so shattered
and destroyed and betrayed?
689
00:39:00.846 --> 00:39:02.383
GAIL:
I did feel betrayed
690
00:39:02.449 --> 00:39:08.327
because we had put so much
into him
691
00:39:08.394 --> 00:39:10.364
for so many years,
692
00:39:10.431 --> 00:39:13.505
that he would do that to us,
693
00:39:13.572 --> 00:39:16.978
knowing us, knowing
our family?
694
00:39:17.045 --> 00:39:22.657
Who is this man that would do
that, married to my daughter?
695
00:39:22.724 --> 00:39:25.629
As I'm talking right now
about this,
696
00:39:25.696 --> 00:39:31.106
I'm really realizing
that this is the first time
697
00:39:31.173 --> 00:39:37.152
I've admitted that--
that I'm so angry,
698
00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:39.122
that I'm angry about it.
699
00:39:41.060 --> 00:39:42.797
[sighs]
700
00:39:42.864 --> 00:39:46.103
- The healing's not over yet.
701
00:39:46.170 --> 00:39:48.408
I'm not out of the woods yet.
702
00:39:48.474 --> 00:39:53.585
I am still clawing my way back
out of this deep, dark hole
703
00:39:53.652 --> 00:39:55.722
that I fell into.
704
00:39:55.789 --> 00:39:58.729
ANDREA: But the Jen
that I met in 2019
705
00:39:58.796 --> 00:40:01.199
is a different person
than the Jen I see today.
706
00:40:02.871 --> 00:40:05.374
I always knew she was strong.
707
00:40:05.441 --> 00:40:07.479
Now I see a woman
that knows her strength.
708
00:40:07.546 --> 00:40:10.251
[downbeat music]
709
00:40:10.318 --> 00:40:16.798
♪♪ ♪♪
710
00:40:16.865 --> 00:40:19.035
GAIL:
Jenifer knows how to survive.
711
00:40:19.102 --> 00:40:20.171
- [laughs]
712
00:40:20.237 --> 00:40:21.741
- She has done it, right?
713
00:40:21.808 --> 00:40:23.310
She's done it all of her life.
714
00:40:23.377 --> 00:40:24.881
She could just make it happen.
715
00:40:24.948 --> 00:40:28.855
ELLER: ♪♪ This will be
my final teardrop ♪♪
716
00:40:28.922 --> 00:40:33.765
♪♪ This will be
our curtain call ♪♪
717
00:40:33.832 --> 00:40:37.740
♪♪ Take this
as my last confession ♪♪
718
00:40:37.806 --> 00:40:41.013
♪♪ This will be mine after all ♪♪
719
00:40:41.080 --> 00:40:45.021
♪♪ ♪♪
720
00:40:45.088 --> 00:40:48.629
- Jen is not defined
by her marriage to Spencer.
721
00:40:48.695 --> 00:40:53.304
Jen is not defined
by the podcast Betrayal.
722
00:40:53.371 --> 00:40:54.941
Jen is Jen.
723
00:40:55.008 --> 00:40:58.214
And the most important part
of the healing journey
724
00:40:58.281 --> 00:41:01.554
is for us to not be
defined by our stories,
725
00:41:01.621 --> 00:41:04.661
but to simply be
our authentic selves.
726
00:41:04.728 --> 00:41:07.599
That is going to be
the healing journey for Jen,
727
00:41:07.666 --> 00:41:12.543
for Rachel, and for anyone else
that was harmed by this story.
728
00:41:13.243 --> 00:41:16.718
JENIFER:
To this day, I am so grateful
729
00:41:16.785 --> 00:41:18.888
Rachel did come forward.
730
00:41:18.955 --> 00:41:22.830
It was the bravest thing
she could have done,
731
00:41:22.897 --> 00:41:27.507
and it also saved my life.
732
00:41:27.573 --> 00:41:32.148
If she hadn't brought
Spencer's activity to light,
733
00:41:32.215 --> 00:41:35.221
I may never have learned
of his deception.
734
00:41:35.288 --> 00:41:39.129
I could still be married
to this monster.
735
00:41:39.196 --> 00:41:41.901
I really want this story
736
00:41:41.968 --> 00:41:45.475
to give other people
the courage to speak up
737
00:41:45.543 --> 00:41:48.715
and to talk about these topics
738
00:41:48.782 --> 00:41:53.190
that are really difficult
to speak about.
739
00:41:53.257 --> 00:41:54.994
♪♪ ♪♪
740
00:41:55.061 --> 00:41:58.067
By coming forward,
by speaking out,
741
00:41:58.133 --> 00:42:01.073
you could be saving
somebody else
742
00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:04.747
from having to go
through something horrible.
743
00:42:04.814 --> 00:42:06.818
If I could just help
one person
744
00:42:06.885 --> 00:42:08.989
by sharing my story,
745
00:42:09.055 --> 00:42:11.126
then I was bringing
purpose to it.
746
00:42:12.997 --> 00:42:16.938
I wouldn't trade what happened
to me for anything now.
747
00:42:17.005 --> 00:42:20.378
I think I've grown
a lot from it.
748
00:42:20.445 --> 00:42:22.783
I don't know
what the future looks like.
749
00:42:22.850 --> 00:42:24.687
None of us do.
750
00:42:24.754 --> 00:42:29.864
But if we just keep moving
forward, we're gonna be okay.
751
00:42:29.931 --> 00:42:33.972
ELLER: ♪♪ This will be
my final teardrop ♪♪
752
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:38.180
♪♪ This will be
our curtain call ♪♪
753
00:42:38.247 --> 00:42:42.690
♪♪ Take this
as my last confession ♪♪
754
00:42:42.756 --> 00:42:45.829
♪♪ This will be mine after all ♪♪
755
00:42:45.896 --> 00:42:47.733
♪♪ Oh, this will be ♪♪
756
00:42:47.799 --> 00:42:51.173
♪♪ My final teardrop ♪♪
757
00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:55.715
♪♪ This will be
our curtain call ♪♪
758
00:42:55.782 --> 00:42:59.791
♪♪ Take this
as my last confession ♪♪
759
00:42:59.858 --> 00:43:06.169
♪♪ This will be mine
after all, after all ♪♪
760
00:43:08.875 --> 00:43:14.753
♪♪ A final teardrop ♪♪
761
00:43:20.498 --> 00:43:23.437
[dark music]
762
00:43:23.505 --> 00:43:30.619
♪♪ ♪♪
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