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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:00.935 --> 00:00:03.841 [dramatic music] 2 00:00:03.908 --> 00:00:11.089 ♪♪ ♪♪ 3 00:00:11.857 --> 00:00:14.261 JENIFER: This was it. It was meant to be. 4 00:00:14.328 --> 00:00:15.364 - You will never have to question 5 00:00:15.430 --> 00:00:18.069 my love or devotion to you. 6 00:00:18.136 --> 00:00:19.773 I am so in love with you. 7 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:22.077 And now we get to be together forever. 8 00:00:22.144 --> 00:00:24.448 ♪♪ ♪♪ 9 00:00:24.516 --> 00:00:27.088 JENIFER: Little did I know I was married to a man 10 00:00:27.154 --> 00:00:29.627 who had done something so horrible 11 00:00:29.693 --> 00:00:31.062 that it would devastate our lives 12 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:32.999 and change us forever. 13 00:00:33.066 --> 00:00:35.003 The cops had kicked the door down. 14 00:00:35.070 --> 00:00:37.407 There's this piece of paper, 15 00:00:37.474 --> 00:00:39.747 and I notice that it says "search warrant" 16 00:00:39.813 --> 00:00:41.349 on the top of it. 17 00:00:41.416 --> 00:00:44.322 And then I just remember seeing the words 18 00:00:44.388 --> 00:00:47.528 "sexual assault" and the word "student." 19 00:00:47.595 --> 00:00:49.165 NEWSCASTER: An educator is in jail. 20 00:00:49.232 --> 00:00:53.473 48-year-old Spencer Herron facing sexual assault charges. 21 00:00:53.540 --> 00:00:56.914 - Two days after Spence was arrested, 22 00:00:56.981 --> 00:00:59.519 I got into his email. 23 00:00:59.586 --> 00:01:03.293 It was woman after woman after woman. 24 00:01:03.360 --> 00:01:06.365 My soulmate, he was living a double life. 25 00:01:08.103 --> 00:01:10.107 [tense music] 26 00:01:10.173 --> 00:01:12.345 During the Betrayal podcast, 27 00:01:12.411 --> 00:01:14.148 I spoke with a couple of the women 28 00:01:14.215 --> 00:01:15.851 who had an affair with Spence. 29 00:01:25.303 --> 00:01:28.276 - This person who we thought was one person 30 00:01:28.343 --> 00:01:30.582 was somebody entirely different. 31 00:01:30.648 --> 00:01:34.221 - He just gave in to the hunt for the high. 32 00:01:53.594 --> 00:01:56.198 - It's manipulation at the highest level. 33 00:01:56.265 --> 00:01:58.170 - If you saw Spence, what do you think 34 00:01:58.236 --> 00:02:00.140 you would say to him? 35 00:02:11.897 --> 00:02:14.770 [dramatic music] 36 00:02:14.837 --> 00:02:21.783 ♪♪ ♪♪ 37 00:02:23.788 --> 00:02:25.423 LORI WILSON: A developing story-- 38 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:27.529 a former Cobb County Teacher of the Year 39 00:02:27.595 --> 00:02:29.766 now faces sexual assault charges. 40 00:02:29.833 --> 00:02:32.371 Police arrested Spencer Herron on Friday 41 00:02:32.438 --> 00:02:34.174 and charged him with three counts 42 00:02:34.241 --> 00:02:35.878 of sexual assault by a teacher. 43 00:02:35.945 --> 00:02:40.153 - The news broke, and people were making comments 44 00:02:40.220 --> 00:02:43.694 about it on Facebook and on his page. 45 00:02:43.761 --> 00:02:46.600 So I was able to get into his Facebook account 46 00:02:46.667 --> 00:02:48.871 to take down his social media. 47 00:02:50.441 --> 00:02:53.881 - And what she found, it was like a trophy case. 48 00:02:53.948 --> 00:02:56.854 [tense music] 49 00:02:56.921 --> 00:02:58.490 ♪♪ ♪♪ 50 00:02:58.558 --> 00:03:02.464 - It was, I don't know, over 60 women 51 00:03:02.532 --> 00:03:05.571 that I found correspondence with. 52 00:03:07.474 --> 00:03:09.679 When something like this happens, 53 00:03:09.746 --> 00:03:11.750 it's so hard to understand 54 00:03:11.817 --> 00:03:14.756 what's real and what's not real. 55 00:03:14.823 --> 00:03:21.637 ♪♪ ♪♪ 56 00:03:21.703 --> 00:03:24.743 [whimpers softly, sniffles] 57 00:03:24.810 --> 00:03:29.018 ♪♪ ♪♪ 58 00:03:29.085 --> 00:03:33.628 Um, I had to kind of become... 59 00:03:33.695 --> 00:03:35.096 an investigator. 60 00:03:35.163 --> 00:03:36.432 [sniffles] 61 00:03:36.499 --> 00:03:41.275 Um, I needed to know who this person was. 62 00:03:41.342 --> 00:03:43.446 ♪♪ ♪♪ 63 00:03:43.514 --> 00:03:46.118 At this point, he's in jail, 64 00:03:46.185 --> 00:03:49.191 he's waiting for his trial, 65 00:03:49.258 --> 00:03:53.601 and I couldn't talk about the case with anyone 66 00:03:53.668 --> 00:03:56.706 because it was ongoing. 67 00:03:56.773 --> 00:03:59.445 So I started digging through everything. 68 00:03:59.513 --> 00:04:04.756 ♪♪ ♪♪ 69 00:04:04.822 --> 00:04:06.693 And the person that I was finding, 70 00:04:06.760 --> 00:04:10.568 going through his emails and correspondence 71 00:04:10.634 --> 00:04:14.341 with these other women... 72 00:04:14.408 --> 00:04:17.582 was not somebody I knew. 73 00:04:17.649 --> 00:04:21.990 He even cheated on me the week of our wedding. 74 00:04:22.057 --> 00:04:25.363 I've made timelines. I've made charts. 75 00:04:25.430 --> 00:04:28.571 I have all the information. 76 00:04:28.638 --> 00:04:30.608 Out of all the different women, 77 00:04:30.675 --> 00:04:34.650 he had two- to three-year-long affairs 78 00:04:34.716 --> 00:04:39.225 with probably six to seven different women... 79 00:04:39.291 --> 00:04:41.362 some at the same time. 80 00:04:41.429 --> 00:04:47.975 ♪♪ ♪♪ 81 00:04:48.042 --> 00:04:51.182 Knowing how many affairs he had had, 82 00:04:51.249 --> 00:04:54.088 I really got angry. 83 00:04:54.155 --> 00:04:56.359 He was living a lie 84 00:04:56.426 --> 00:04:59.398 the entire time that we were married. 85 00:04:59.464 --> 00:05:03.039 The entire time he was living a lie. 86 00:05:05.945 --> 00:05:08.149 - One of my biggest questions has always been, 87 00:05:08.216 --> 00:05:12.758 why--why did you feel the need to organize everything? 88 00:05:12.825 --> 00:05:15.296 - I was just looking for all the answers. 89 00:05:15.363 --> 00:05:18.236 Like, I needed a timeline. 90 00:05:18.303 --> 00:05:21.944 I needed to know, when did this start? 91 00:05:22.011 --> 00:05:25.250 When did this end, if it ever ended? 92 00:05:25.316 --> 00:05:28.724 I had to see... 93 00:05:28.791 --> 00:05:31.897 was it anything that I had done at any point? 94 00:05:33.735 --> 00:05:36.339 - When I started working with Jen, 95 00:05:36.405 --> 00:05:38.410 she was--she was crumbling. 96 00:05:38.477 --> 00:05:40.982 She was completely falling apart. 97 00:05:41.049 --> 00:05:42.818 ♪♪ ♪♪ 98 00:05:42.885 --> 00:05:45.124 At the beginning of betrayal trauma, 99 00:05:45.190 --> 00:05:49.464 we start to see a lot of safety-seeking behavior... 100 00:05:49.532 --> 00:05:51.536 Staying up all night, 101 00:05:51.603 --> 00:05:55.344 looking at texts and emails 102 00:05:55.410 --> 00:05:58.584 and phone logs... 103 00:05:58.650 --> 00:06:01.289 anything to try 104 00:06:01.355 --> 00:06:04.596 to make sense... 105 00:06:04.662 --> 00:06:08.504 and put pieces back together of their world 106 00:06:08.571 --> 00:06:11.676 that has totally been shattered. 107 00:06:11.743 --> 00:06:14.448 - Like, I mean, look at this list. 108 00:06:14.515 --> 00:06:16.686 This is a list I compiled 109 00:06:16.753 --> 00:06:20.293 that shows how many 110 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:22.532 and the dates. 111 00:06:22.598 --> 00:06:24.936 - This is page 1 of 9. - Yeah. 112 00:06:25.003 --> 00:06:27.542 ANDREA: She's trying to reconcile, 113 00:06:27.608 --> 00:06:30.247 here's someone that I thought I trusted 114 00:06:30.314 --> 00:06:32.384 that valued me, respected me, 115 00:06:32.450 --> 00:06:35.090 who really didn't. 116 00:06:35.157 --> 00:06:38.930 That was really shocking to her and hard for her to understand. 117 00:06:38.997 --> 00:06:41.837 JENIFER: You can see, like, how they overlap. 118 00:06:41.903 --> 00:06:44.676 - Constant feelers out there. - Yep. 119 00:06:44.743 --> 00:06:47.414 I-I think that was, like, almost his job every day, 120 00:06:47.481 --> 00:06:51.322 was to figure out who he could sleep with. 121 00:06:51.389 --> 00:06:56.933 ♪♪ ♪♪ 122 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.171 KIM WIGINGTON: When Jenifer started talking 123 00:06:59.238 --> 00:07:01.643 about the multiple women, 124 00:07:01.710 --> 00:07:04.048 I don't know if I said it first or if she did, 125 00:07:04.114 --> 00:07:07.922 it was like, do you think you have an STD? 126 00:07:07.989 --> 00:07:09.959 And I said, well, I'm gonna call 127 00:07:10.026 --> 00:07:11.730 and make an appointment with my gynecologist, 128 00:07:11.796 --> 00:07:13.601 and I will drive you there. 129 00:07:13.668 --> 00:07:16.607 And she came out 130 00:07:16.673 --> 00:07:19.378 of the, um, exam room, 131 00:07:19.445 --> 00:07:22.685 and she said, "I have chlamydia." 132 00:07:22.752 --> 00:07:27.528 And it was just... [sighs] 133 00:07:27.595 --> 00:07:30.668 So real at that moment. 134 00:07:30.734 --> 00:07:32.237 [Eloise Weeks' "Look What You've Done"] 135 00:07:32.304 --> 00:07:35.309 ELOISE WEEKS: ♪♪ You were in love with me ♪♪ 136 00:07:35.376 --> 00:07:37.581 WIGINGTON: Because she couldn't separate it 137 00:07:37.648 --> 00:07:38.984 from herself anymore. 138 00:07:39.051 --> 00:07:42.224 ELOISE: ♪♪ Now look what you've done to me ♪♪ 139 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:45.664 ♪♪ Look what you've done ♪♪ 140 00:07:45.731 --> 00:07:47.769 WIGINGTON: There was something so real 141 00:07:47.835 --> 00:07:51.242 about having that STD 142 00:07:51.309 --> 00:07:54.983 that he gave her that... 143 00:07:55.049 --> 00:07:58.222 [sighs] You couldn't separate 144 00:07:58.289 --> 00:08:00.060 the Spencer who went out 145 00:08:00.127 --> 00:08:01.963 and did these horrible things... 146 00:08:02.030 --> 00:08:03.767 ELOISE: ♪♪ I was in love with you ♪♪ 147 00:08:03.834 --> 00:08:05.537 ♪♪ I was in love with you ♪♪ 148 00:08:05.604 --> 00:08:06.940 WIGINGTON: To the Spencer who was 149 00:08:07.007 --> 00:08:08.142 the loving husband at home. 150 00:08:08.209 --> 00:08:10.548 It all collided at that moment. 151 00:08:10.615 --> 00:08:12.885 ♪♪ ♪♪ 152 00:08:12.952 --> 00:08:15.824 ELOISE: ♪♪ Now look what you've done to me ♪♪ 153 00:08:17.494 --> 00:08:18.997 - It fucks you up. 154 00:08:20.634 --> 00:08:23.306 You know, having sex, it--it's-- 155 00:08:23.372 --> 00:08:25.243 it's so personal. 156 00:08:26.880 --> 00:08:31.556 And he was having it with prostitutes, 157 00:08:31.623 --> 00:08:33.594 escorts, 158 00:08:33.661 --> 00:08:35.363 online, 159 00:08:35.430 --> 00:08:36.967 in person. 160 00:08:37.034 --> 00:08:40.440 ♪♪ ♪♪ 161 00:08:40.508 --> 00:08:44.448 It was constant, all day, every day. 162 00:08:44.516 --> 00:08:48.022 ♪♪ ♪♪ 163 00:08:50.426 --> 00:08:52.598 [dramatic music] 164 00:08:52.665 --> 00:08:54.001 JENIFER: During the podcast, 165 00:08:54.068 --> 00:08:56.072 I spoke with a couple of the women 166 00:08:56.138 --> 00:09:00.714 that he had long-term affairs with. 167 00:09:02.284 --> 00:09:06.793 And what I learned is that his behavior 168 00:09:06.860 --> 00:09:09.833 follows a certain pattern. 169 00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:12.237 He used his charm 170 00:09:12.303 --> 00:09:15.476 to make people do what he wanted to do. 171 00:09:15.544 --> 00:09:19.051 ♪♪ ♪♪ 172 00:09:19.118 --> 00:09:23.392 And, you know, he, like, throws out this fishing line 173 00:09:23.459 --> 00:09:25.631 to see who will bite. 174 00:09:25.698 --> 00:09:29.071 ♪♪ ♪♪ 175 00:09:29.138 --> 00:09:31.108 ANDREA: While serving in the Air National Guard, 176 00:09:31.175 --> 00:09:34.415 Spencer had a long-term affair with one of his bandmates. 177 00:09:34.482 --> 00:09:37.054 She was comfortable with speaking to Jen 178 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.258 but didn't want anyone to know her name. 179 00:09:39.325 --> 00:09:41.328 And that was okay. We changed her name. 180 00:09:41.395 --> 00:09:43.332 HOPE: Out of nowhere, 181 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:44.969 I got this text message-- 182 00:09:45.036 --> 00:09:48.242 "Well, you're beautiful." 183 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:51.783 Here's an attractive guy telling me I'm pretty. 184 00:09:51.850 --> 00:09:54.121 At that point, I don't even remember 185 00:09:54.187 --> 00:09:57.160 really ever having a-a conversation with him 186 00:09:57.227 --> 00:09:58.931 prior to that. 187 00:09:58.998 --> 00:10:00.300 JENIFER: Some people wouldn't bite, 188 00:10:00.367 --> 00:10:02.404 because they thought, well, wait, he's married. 189 00:10:02.470 --> 00:10:05.243 Oh, that just must be Spence. He's just really nice. 190 00:10:05.310 --> 00:10:08.482 You know, I'm sure it wasn't really flirtation. 191 00:10:08.550 --> 00:10:11.623 [soft dramatic music] 192 00:10:11.690 --> 00:10:14.763 And I think most of the time... 193 00:10:14.830 --> 00:10:17.167 it probably was. 194 00:10:17.234 --> 00:10:19.404 HOPE: And then the next thing I know, 195 00:10:19.471 --> 00:10:21.877 it's happening so quickly 196 00:10:21.944 --> 00:10:23.446 that I--like, I was confused. 197 00:10:23.514 --> 00:10:24.883 I was like, what is this? 198 00:10:24.949 --> 00:10:26.887 I thought we were just hanging out, talking. 199 00:10:26.954 --> 00:10:29.291 And then there we were. 200 00:10:29.358 --> 00:10:32.598 And I remember feeling like, oh, my God, what's happening? 201 00:10:32.665 --> 00:10:35.837 - I am a clinical psychologist. 202 00:10:35.904 --> 00:10:40.213 And my focus is on antagonistic relationships. 203 00:10:40.280 --> 00:10:41.482 [tense music] 204 00:10:41.550 --> 00:10:43.887 I did not have the opportunity 205 00:10:43.954 --> 00:10:46.258 to meet with Spencer and to talk with Spencer. 206 00:10:46.325 --> 00:10:49.799 But personality style, we can speculate on that confidently, 207 00:10:49.866 --> 00:10:51.770 because when we're talking about personality, 208 00:10:51.836 --> 00:10:53.740 it's a set of patterns of behavior 209 00:10:53.807 --> 00:10:55.309 that all hang together. 210 00:10:55.376 --> 00:10:58.282 The personality style we're seeing here falls 211 00:10:58.349 --> 00:11:00.186 in this sort of narcissistic space. 212 00:11:00.252 --> 00:11:03.694 But the danger of any kind of narcissistic 213 00:11:03.760 --> 00:11:06.399 or antagonistic or toxic personality 214 00:11:06.465 --> 00:11:08.302 is their absolute brilliance 215 00:11:08.369 --> 00:11:10.974 at being able to hide in plain sight. 216 00:11:12.143 --> 00:11:14.181 HOPE: I loved the way 217 00:11:14.248 --> 00:11:16.051 he made me feel about myself. 218 00:11:16.118 --> 00:11:17.589 At that time in my life, 219 00:11:17.655 --> 00:11:18.991 I very much needed 220 00:11:19.058 --> 00:11:21.361 to feel loved and wanted. 221 00:11:21.428 --> 00:11:24.034 KIM GOULD: When someone swoops in 222 00:11:24.101 --> 00:11:27.909 and makes you feel loved and important 223 00:11:27.975 --> 00:11:30.146 and attractive, 224 00:11:30.213 --> 00:11:34.822 it's easy to sometimes be vulnerable to that. 225 00:11:34.889 --> 00:11:39.765 So Spence was really good at identifying these women, 226 00:11:39.832 --> 00:11:41.736 and... 227 00:11:41.803 --> 00:11:45.777 they were often receptive to this 228 00:11:45.844 --> 00:11:49.251 because they learned to trust him. 229 00:11:49.318 --> 00:11:53.059 ♪♪ ♪♪ 230 00:11:53.126 --> 00:11:56.399 - One of the women that had an affair with Spence 231 00:11:56.465 --> 00:11:58.837 was a friend of ours. 232 00:11:58.904 --> 00:12:01.175 And she was one of the women 233 00:12:01.242 --> 00:12:05.951 I saw pictures of on his computer. 234 00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:08.991 [inhales sharply] 235 00:12:09.057 --> 00:12:13.567 [voice breaking] That--that stings really bad. 236 00:12:13.634 --> 00:12:16.305 ♪♪ ♪♪ 237 00:12:16.372 --> 00:12:17.575 [sniffles] 238 00:12:17.642 --> 00:12:19.612 [normal voice] We were friends with the family. 239 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.817 Her and her husband would come into the wine bar 240 00:12:21.884 --> 00:12:23.820 all the time. 241 00:12:23.887 --> 00:12:25.924 - Jen's friend was willing 242 00:12:25.991 --> 00:12:28.162 to have a conversation with Jen on the phone, 243 00:12:28.229 --> 00:12:30.399 but she didn't want us to hear her voice. 244 00:12:30.466 --> 00:12:34.041 So what she allowed us to do was use the transcription 245 00:12:34.107 --> 00:12:36.145 of the recorded phone call, 246 00:12:36.212 --> 00:12:39.585 and then we could use a voice actor to play her. 247 00:12:39.652 --> 00:12:42.156 [indistinct chatter] 248 00:12:42.223 --> 00:12:43.727 FRIEND: I was stressed out. 249 00:12:43.794 --> 00:12:44.762 I didn't feel pretty 250 00:12:44.829 --> 00:12:46.165 all the time. 251 00:12:46.232 --> 00:12:48.302 And I was a stay-at-home mom, you know? 252 00:12:48.369 --> 00:12:50.574 I had kids hanging off me, breastfeeding. 253 00:12:50.641 --> 00:12:54.281 I was greasy, maybe showered every couple days. 254 00:12:54.348 --> 00:12:56.519 But then I would always hear, you know, like, 255 00:12:56.586 --> 00:12:58.088 "Oh, you're so beautiful. 256 00:12:58.155 --> 00:13:00.059 "You're really, really well-rounded, 257 00:13:00.126 --> 00:13:02.798 and you're a great mom." 258 00:13:02.865 --> 00:13:06.740 - When Spence would work the wine bar on his own, 259 00:13:06.807 --> 00:13:10.647 I found out that he basically used it almost like a brothel. 260 00:13:10.714 --> 00:13:16.660 ♪♪ ♪♪ 261 00:13:16.727 --> 00:13:17.962 FRIEND: He asked me if I could 262 00:13:18.029 --> 00:13:19.064 help stay there for him 263 00:13:19.130 --> 00:13:20.299 to close up, 264 00:13:20.366 --> 00:13:22.738 like, help carry something out. 265 00:13:22.805 --> 00:13:24.542 I went into the bathroom, and when I came out, 266 00:13:24.609 --> 00:13:27.648 he was there and mentioned, like, 267 00:13:27.715 --> 00:13:29.652 "You know we have this thing together. 268 00:13:29.719 --> 00:13:32.859 You know, you're feeling this too, right?" 269 00:13:32.926 --> 00:13:35.797 And then he came in for a kiss 270 00:13:35.864 --> 00:13:37.768 and then held my hand, 271 00:13:37.835 --> 00:13:39.171 then touched his crotch 272 00:13:39.238 --> 00:13:41.408 with my hand on the outside of my pants. 273 00:13:44.716 --> 00:13:47.387 - He would put a sign on the door sometimes 274 00:13:47.453 --> 00:13:49.324 that said "back in five minutes," 275 00:13:49.391 --> 00:13:51.563 because he took some woman to the bathroom 276 00:13:51.630 --> 00:13:54.902 or to the basement to have sex with them. 277 00:13:57.207 --> 00:13:58.644 FRIEND: I felt like I knew him 278 00:13:58.710 --> 00:13:59.779 and trusted him 279 00:13:59.846 --> 00:14:01.014 for at least six months 280 00:14:01.081 --> 00:14:02.450 to a year, 281 00:14:02.518 --> 00:14:04.622 and I felt like somebody got me in that moment. 282 00:14:04.688 --> 00:14:06.726 So I guess in a way I almost felt 283 00:14:06.793 --> 00:14:09.164 like I owed him something. 284 00:14:09.231 --> 00:14:11.837 - With Spencer, there was no empathy. 285 00:14:11.903 --> 00:14:13.206 There was tremendous manipulation 286 00:14:13.272 --> 00:14:15.243 and, frankly, a lot of entitlement, 287 00:14:15.310 --> 00:14:17.748 entitlement to, I get to have my attention. 288 00:14:17.815 --> 00:14:19.886 I get to have multiple lives. 289 00:14:19.953 --> 00:14:22.524 I get to do all of this. 290 00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:25.698 HOPE: I felt just like 291 00:14:25.764 --> 00:14:27.333 I was being used 292 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:30.206 whenever there was a need. 293 00:14:30.273 --> 00:14:32.310 Two or three months would go by, 294 00:14:32.377 --> 00:14:35.116 and I wouldn't hear anything. 295 00:14:35.183 --> 00:14:36.953 And then all of a sudden, 296 00:14:37.020 --> 00:14:38.590 here--here we are again. 297 00:14:38.657 --> 00:14:40.727 ANDREA: Every time you would open an email 298 00:14:40.794 --> 00:14:42.297 or look at a text message, 299 00:14:42.363 --> 00:14:44.502 were you numb at that point, 300 00:14:44.568 --> 00:14:46.906 or was it like a dagger every single time? 301 00:14:46.973 --> 00:14:50.446 - Every single time. 302 00:14:50.514 --> 00:14:53.954 ANDREA: What's so wild to me is just the volume of women 303 00:14:54.021 --> 00:14:56.693 and the different versions of himself. 304 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.128 They must be encountering 305 00:14:58.195 --> 00:15:00.200 a different mask, a different person, 306 00:15:00.266 --> 00:15:01.603 and different masks... - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 307 00:15:01.670 --> 00:15:02.938 ANDREA: For different vulnerabilities. 308 00:15:03.005 --> 00:15:04.742 And that's scary. 309 00:15:04.809 --> 00:15:06.478 JENIFER: Totally, yeah. 310 00:15:06.546 --> 00:15:09.418 I didn't know 311 00:15:09.484 --> 00:15:14.294 how manipulating Spence was at that point. 312 00:15:15.698 --> 00:15:17.869 RAMANI: Spencer actually seemed like a great guy 313 00:15:17.935 --> 00:15:19.839 to everybody in his life. 314 00:15:19.906 --> 00:15:23.412 Unfortunately, when it comes to manipulative behavior, 315 00:15:23.479 --> 00:15:26.552 the manipulation gets rewarded. 316 00:15:26.619 --> 00:15:29.057 Anytime manipulation is rewarded, 317 00:15:29.124 --> 00:15:31.228 we will always see escalation. 318 00:15:31.295 --> 00:15:35.270 And, basically, Spencer had absolutely no consideration 319 00:15:35.336 --> 00:15:37.373 for the needs and feelings of others. 320 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.344 When you're running a system like that, 321 00:15:39.410 --> 00:15:42.383 it's manipulation at the highest level. 322 00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:43.820 FRIEND: I could see the way 323 00:15:43.887 --> 00:15:45.189 he would look at people 324 00:15:45.256 --> 00:15:46.860 in public situations. 325 00:15:46.927 --> 00:15:48.195 If I were off in the distance 326 00:15:48.262 --> 00:15:50.366 or he was exchanging money with somebody, 327 00:15:50.432 --> 00:15:53.172 his hand would linger on hers a little bit longer. 328 00:15:53.239 --> 00:15:54.809 It was a challenge. 329 00:15:54.876 --> 00:15:56.512 It was a game. 330 00:15:56.579 --> 00:15:58.482 ♪♪ ♪♪ 331 00:15:58.550 --> 00:16:02.023 LAUREN: I met Spencer when I was interviewing 332 00:16:02.089 --> 00:16:04.461 for his fill-in position. 333 00:16:04.529 --> 00:16:07.400 He was leaving for military leave. 334 00:16:07.466 --> 00:16:10.641 And--and the interview went very well. 335 00:16:10.707 --> 00:16:13.814 I really didn't think much of it, 336 00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:17.888 but he seemed like he wanted 337 00:16:17.955 --> 00:16:21.863 to continue a conversation outside of the interview. 338 00:16:21.930 --> 00:16:26.205 And I could tell at that point, things shifted. 339 00:16:26.271 --> 00:16:28.977 And I don't even remember how I ended up 340 00:16:29.043 --> 00:16:31.148 giving him my phone number. 341 00:16:31.215 --> 00:16:32.818 And then the next thing I knew, 342 00:16:32.884 --> 00:16:35.389 we were in a parking lot at Home Depot. 343 00:16:35.456 --> 00:16:37.562 [scoffs] Sounds so lovely. 344 00:16:37.628 --> 00:16:39.599 And... 345 00:16:39.666 --> 00:16:42.704 we had sex. 346 00:16:42.771 --> 00:16:46.713 He was very persistent and pushy. 347 00:16:46.780 --> 00:16:48.950 He wouldn't give up. 348 00:16:49.017 --> 00:16:50.820 I knew he was married, 349 00:16:50.887 --> 00:16:52.223 and it made me feel even-- 350 00:16:52.290 --> 00:16:54.528 you know, just horrible about myself. 351 00:16:54.595 --> 00:16:58.269 But yet I continue to communicate with him 352 00:16:58.336 --> 00:17:00.206 for however long it was. 353 00:17:00.273 --> 00:17:02.712 ♪♪ ♪♪ 354 00:17:02.778 --> 00:17:06.953 He exudes charm, so... 355 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.859 shame on me, you know. 356 00:17:09.925 --> 00:17:12.164 HOPE: There was a very dominating 357 00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:14.034 side to him. 358 00:17:14.100 --> 00:17:16.037 There were things 359 00:17:16.104 --> 00:17:17.307 that were asked of me 360 00:17:17.374 --> 00:17:19.144 that I was absolutely not 361 00:17:19.210 --> 00:17:21.181 comfortable with. 362 00:17:21.248 --> 00:17:23.485 He had a lot of fantasies 363 00:17:23.553 --> 00:17:26.125 that he wanted played out. 364 00:17:26.191 --> 00:17:28.496 [dark music] 365 00:17:28.563 --> 00:17:32.304 - I think he must think about sex 366 00:17:32.370 --> 00:17:36.679 or fetishes, whatever, often 367 00:17:36.746 --> 00:17:41.255 and very determined to get an answer as to meeting 368 00:17:41.322 --> 00:17:46.164 or wanting to talk about his fetishes more. 369 00:17:47.567 --> 00:17:50.974 - He would talk about having a threesome 370 00:17:51.041 --> 00:17:54.782 and send photos of what he wanted to happen 371 00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:56.451 during the threesome. 372 00:17:57.921 --> 00:18:01.863 I found disgusting videos 373 00:18:01.929 --> 00:18:05.202 that these women took of themselves and sent to him 374 00:18:05.269 --> 00:18:07.508 because he asked for them. 375 00:18:07.575 --> 00:18:12.083 - Spencer liked to refer to me as "Mommy" 376 00:18:12.150 --> 00:18:16.559 and wanted to be known as "Daddy," 377 00:18:16.626 --> 00:18:20.667 even wanting to do things that an infant would do 378 00:18:20.734 --> 00:18:23.339 with a mother, uh, such as nursing. 379 00:18:23.406 --> 00:18:26.946 And at some point, 380 00:18:27.013 --> 00:18:31.088 he said he wanted to be on a leash 381 00:18:31.155 --> 00:18:33.660 and walked around a room like a dog. 382 00:18:33.727 --> 00:18:36.231 - He wanted one woman to hit him 383 00:18:36.297 --> 00:18:38.068 while they were having sex. 384 00:18:38.135 --> 00:18:42.243 ♪♪ ♪♪ 385 00:18:42.310 --> 00:18:44.615 And that's a turn-on for him. 386 00:18:45.918 --> 00:18:47.755 WIGINGTON: You know, to know that he had 387 00:18:47.822 --> 00:18:49.257 that dangerous side, 388 00:18:49.323 --> 00:18:51.596 it was really scary to think 389 00:18:51.663 --> 00:18:54.234 what could have happened to Jen. 390 00:18:54.301 --> 00:18:57.874 ♪♪ ♪♪ 391 00:19:01.014 --> 00:19:03.352 [dramatic music] 392 00:19:03.419 --> 00:19:06.659 RAMANI: Spencer's so arrogant, so willing 393 00:19:06.726 --> 00:19:09.665 to capitalize on other people's vulnerabilities 394 00:19:09.732 --> 00:19:13.272 merely for his own sense of validation 395 00:19:13.338 --> 00:19:15.544 and gratification. 396 00:19:15.610 --> 00:19:18.683 There wasn't even an awareness of people getting hurt. 397 00:19:23.993 --> 00:19:26.164 JENIFER: This is Hope. 398 00:19:26.231 --> 00:19:28.603 "Baby, I'm ready. I can't wait." 399 00:19:28.669 --> 00:19:31.108 "Oh, my God, baby girl, you are perfect. 400 00:19:31.174 --> 00:19:33.646 "Wow. I'm speechless. 401 00:19:33.713 --> 00:19:36.452 Except that I want to decorate your whole back..." 402 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.490 - I can't. - "With"-- I can't. 403 00:19:39.558 --> 00:19:41.963 That is not the person that I knew. 404 00:19:42.029 --> 00:19:43.032 - Mm-hmm. 405 00:19:43.099 --> 00:19:46.305 [tense music] 406 00:19:46.372 --> 00:19:47.775 FRIEND: He texted me a picture 407 00:19:47.841 --> 00:19:49.010 of his dick. 408 00:19:49.077 --> 00:19:50.580 Right--right out there, 409 00:19:50.647 --> 00:19:52.216 not--not even expecting it, 410 00:19:52.283 --> 00:19:54.320 right out there on my phone. 411 00:19:54.387 --> 00:19:55.724 And at one point, then, 412 00:19:55.790 --> 00:19:58.161 requested me to send him a picture. 413 00:19:58.228 --> 00:19:59.532 I felt like that was better 414 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.037 than actually getting together with him. 415 00:20:02.103 --> 00:20:04.809 RAMANI: Spencer keeps pushing the envelope, 416 00:20:04.876 --> 00:20:06.545 keeps pushing the limit. 417 00:20:06.612 --> 00:20:10.286 Attention seeking combined with lack of empathy 418 00:20:10.353 --> 00:20:11.823 can be really dangerous, 419 00:20:11.890 --> 00:20:15.229 because then you're saying, I need to get attention, 420 00:20:15.295 --> 00:20:17.400 and I don't care who I hurt. 421 00:20:17.467 --> 00:20:18.937 - Spencer Herron at Kell High School. 422 00:20:19.003 --> 00:20:20.139 How's it going? 423 00:20:20.206 --> 00:20:21.909 NEWSCASTER: Herron now has three charges 424 00:20:21.976 --> 00:20:23.445 of sexual assault by a teacher. 425 00:20:23.513 --> 00:20:25.316 The 48-year-old was arrested Friday afternoon 426 00:20:25.382 --> 00:20:26.853 at his home. 427 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.992 JENIFER: Up until he was arrested, 428 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:32.263 I had a great marriage. 429 00:20:32.330 --> 00:20:35.503 [soft dramatic music] 430 00:20:35.570 --> 00:20:38.910 And you don't realize... 431 00:20:38.977 --> 00:20:42.450 how quickly life can change. [sniffles] 432 00:20:42.518 --> 00:20:44.721 ♪♪ ♪♪ 433 00:20:44.788 --> 00:20:46.526 ANDREA: There's many different versions 434 00:20:46.593 --> 00:20:47.961 that he would present himself to be. 435 00:20:48.028 --> 00:20:52.537 Even in his marriage, he wore a really strong 436 00:20:52.604 --> 00:20:55.510 and powerful husband mask. 437 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:01.488 - His other life was devious 438 00:21:01.556 --> 00:21:04.127 and deceptive. 439 00:21:04.194 --> 00:21:05.429 HOPE: I feel like I was 440 00:21:05.496 --> 00:21:07.233 forced to play a role 441 00:21:07.299 --> 00:21:09.203 that was not me. 442 00:21:09.270 --> 00:21:10.874 There would be certain looks 443 00:21:10.941 --> 00:21:13.312 that just made me feel different 444 00:21:13.378 --> 00:21:15.517 and cunning words. 445 00:21:15.584 --> 00:21:19.925 So I didn't know how to be other than just comply. 446 00:21:19.992 --> 00:21:23.599 JENIFER: And he lied to people. 447 00:21:23.666 --> 00:21:26.873 He would tell some of these women, "I love you. 448 00:21:26.939 --> 00:21:28.709 You're the only one." 449 00:21:28.776 --> 00:21:30.914 HOPE: I really thought 450 00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:32.985 that he loved me. 451 00:21:33.052 --> 00:21:34.221 He had me convinced 452 00:21:34.287 --> 00:21:35.389 that he did. 453 00:21:35.456 --> 00:21:37.828 I mean, he--he told me. 454 00:21:37.895 --> 00:21:39.732 ♪♪ ♪♪ 455 00:21:39.798 --> 00:21:41.401 ANDREA: Do you remember the first time 456 00:21:41.468 --> 00:21:43.138 you saw him say "I love you" to somebody else 457 00:21:43.205 --> 00:21:44.608 and what that was like? 458 00:21:44.675 --> 00:21:49.017 - Yeah, because he said it to Hope, I think. 459 00:21:49.084 --> 00:21:52.725 I-I wrote him a lot of letters when he was in jail. 460 00:21:52.792 --> 00:21:54.628 I only sent two. 461 00:21:54.695 --> 00:21:58.134 But I needed to write them for myself. 462 00:21:58.201 --> 00:22:02.878 And I just remember asking him, 463 00:22:02.945 --> 00:22:05.617 did you really love this person? 464 00:22:05.684 --> 00:22:07.621 Like--and his response, 465 00:22:07.688 --> 00:22:10.259 "I don't remember ever telling them I love them." 466 00:22:10.326 --> 00:22:15.202 ♪♪ ♪♪ 467 00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:16.806 - But I'm sure you have evidence 468 00:22:16.873 --> 00:22:19.945 of him saying it first. - Right there. 469 00:22:20.012 --> 00:22:21.147 ANDREA: Mm-hmm. 470 00:22:21.214 --> 00:22:23.720 ♪♪ ♪♪ 471 00:22:23.787 --> 00:22:27.259 GOULD: That was just another manipulation. 472 00:22:27.326 --> 00:22:31.134 Love is something 473 00:22:31.201 --> 00:22:33.974 that brings kindness 474 00:22:34.040 --> 00:22:37.847 and true goodness into someone else's life. 475 00:22:37.914 --> 00:22:42.156 Love is not bringing harm and destruction. 476 00:22:42.223 --> 00:22:45.195 ♪♪ ♪♪ 477 00:22:45.262 --> 00:22:46.632 HOPE: I just felt like 478 00:22:46.699 --> 00:22:48.302 my world was literally 479 00:22:48.369 --> 00:22:49.771 crashing down around me-- 480 00:22:49.838 --> 00:22:53.211 the shame, the guilt, the fear. 481 00:22:53.278 --> 00:22:56.317 - There was nothing about this that was love. 482 00:22:56.384 --> 00:22:58.656 ♪♪ ♪♪ 483 00:22:58.723 --> 00:23:02.631 - Spence and I spent time on the phone together 484 00:23:02.698 --> 00:23:04.134 when he was in jail. 485 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.406 The calls were being recorded by the jail. 486 00:23:07.473 --> 00:23:10.880 And he was so concerned about himself 487 00:23:10.947 --> 00:23:15.456 and about anything we'd discuss being used 488 00:23:15.523 --> 00:23:20.032 against him or against his character in his trial. 489 00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:23.906 So I wasn't able to really express myself 490 00:23:23.973 --> 00:23:27.681 as much as I wanted to about what he had done. 491 00:23:54.802 --> 00:23:56.037 GAIL: I was concerned 492 00:23:56.104 --> 00:23:58.341 that she was gonna lose it completely. 493 00:23:58.408 --> 00:23:59.645 She got stuck. 494 00:23:59.712 --> 00:24:01.916 ♪♪ ♪♪ 495 00:24:01.983 --> 00:24:04.054 She kept going back to it. 496 00:24:04.120 --> 00:24:06.291 "Mom, you're not gonna believe this. 497 00:24:06.358 --> 00:24:07.861 "This is what was being said. 498 00:24:07.927 --> 00:24:09.731 Mom, you're not gonna believe this photo." 499 00:24:09.798 --> 00:24:12.804 She couldn't-- she was, like, spinning. 500 00:24:12.871 --> 00:24:16.277 She just kept going around and round and round. 501 00:24:16.344 --> 00:24:18.415 - Nobody knew what to feel 502 00:24:18.482 --> 00:24:20.887 or what to say or what to do. 503 00:24:20.954 --> 00:24:23.391 GAIL: It was like watching a movie. 504 00:24:24.226 --> 00:24:26.264 RAMANI: It was the death of her future. 505 00:24:26.331 --> 00:24:28.803 It was the death of her dreams. 506 00:24:28.870 --> 00:24:32.376 It was the death of a person she thought she knew. 507 00:24:32.443 --> 00:24:35.917 There is something almost harder 508 00:24:35.984 --> 00:24:39.725 about someone still being alive and having to lose 509 00:24:39.792 --> 00:24:41.562 what you believed to be true of them 510 00:24:41.629 --> 00:24:43.533 than someone actually dying. 511 00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:46.905 ♪♪ ♪♪ 512 00:24:46.972 --> 00:24:48.977 GAIL: Jenifer is so distraught, 513 00:24:49.044 --> 00:24:51.582 she's not thinking, how am I gonna pay the bills 514 00:24:51.649 --> 00:24:53.720 with one income? 515 00:24:53.786 --> 00:24:56.458 You know, what about the house? What about your job? 516 00:24:56.526 --> 00:24:59.330 What about all of these other 517 00:24:59.397 --> 00:25:02.504 logistical things for you, 518 00:25:02.571 --> 00:25:04.608 how are we gonna fix that? 519 00:25:04.675 --> 00:25:06.311 [Nik Ammar's "Come to an End"] 520 00:25:06.378 --> 00:25:08.314 WIGINGTON: And, of course, you know, 521 00:25:08.381 --> 00:25:09.819 there was depression. 522 00:25:09.885 --> 00:25:13.759 And she didn't feel like she was good enough. 523 00:25:13.826 --> 00:25:17.935 NIK AMMAR: ♪♪ Our love turned to rust ♪♪ 524 00:25:18.001 --> 00:25:22.176 ♪♪ Broken hearts to dust ♪♪ 525 00:25:22.242 --> 00:25:27.654 ♪♪ Nothing left of us but memories ♪♪ 526 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:32.564 - I lost my sense of trust. 527 00:25:32.630 --> 00:25:35.169 I started questioning my decisions. 528 00:25:35.235 --> 00:25:37.140 And being a producer, 529 00:25:37.206 --> 00:25:40.212 I-I live by my instincts. 530 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:45.255 And all of a sudden, I-I just questioned all of that. 531 00:25:45.322 --> 00:25:47.961 I lost work because of it. 532 00:25:48.028 --> 00:25:51.936 NIK: ♪♪ Never felt so low, so long ♪♪ 533 00:25:52.002 --> 00:25:54.975 WIGINGTON: Jenifer had gotten to the point where, 534 00:25:55.041 --> 00:25:56.679 if she'd kept her house for another month, 535 00:25:56.745 --> 00:25:58.481 the bank would've taken it. 536 00:25:58.549 --> 00:26:01.188 ♪♪ ♪♪ 537 00:26:01.254 --> 00:26:04.293 JENIFER: Literally, at that point, I had no money. 538 00:26:04.360 --> 00:26:07.366 I had already borrowed from everybody I know. 539 00:26:07.433 --> 00:26:09.905 ♪♪ ♪♪ 540 00:26:09.972 --> 00:26:12.343 - And so we said, well, 541 00:26:12.410 --> 00:26:15.517 why don't you come live in our basement apartment? 542 00:26:15.584 --> 00:26:18.355 - I had to put my pride aside. 543 00:26:18.421 --> 00:26:22.062 NIK: ♪♪ Used to be the two of us together ♪♪ 544 00:26:22.129 --> 00:26:26.572 JENIFER: So I sold our beautiful home 545 00:26:26.639 --> 00:26:29.010 and moved into a basement. 546 00:26:29.077 --> 00:26:32.249 NIK: ♪♪ So distant, and I've never felt so low ♪♪ 547 00:26:32.316 --> 00:26:35.222 ♪♪ So long ♪♪ 548 00:26:38.897 --> 00:26:40.800 - We're learning more about what landed a former 549 00:26:40.867 --> 00:26:42.470 Cobb County Teacher of the Year nominee in jail. 550 00:26:42.538 --> 00:26:43.772 The educator is facing charges 551 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.278 of sexual assault involving a student. 552 00:26:46.344 --> 00:26:50.887 - It's just such a fucked-up place to be. 553 00:26:50.954 --> 00:26:54.427 You're trying to figure out, 554 00:26:54.494 --> 00:26:56.532 like, who is this person? 555 00:26:56.598 --> 00:26:57.768 Is it the one I know, 556 00:26:57.835 --> 00:27:00.071 or is it the one that I'm learning about? 557 00:27:01.542 --> 00:27:04.447 In the early days when he was in jail, 558 00:27:04.515 --> 00:27:06.217 he would write me letters. 559 00:27:06.284 --> 00:27:11.227 And he wrote me letter after letter after letter. 560 00:27:11.294 --> 00:27:13.967 I would always check the mailbox, 561 00:27:14.033 --> 00:27:17.339 because I was just hoping that he would send me a letter 562 00:27:17.406 --> 00:27:21.481 that would somehow explain everything. 563 00:27:21.549 --> 00:27:24.120 Ugh! I hate these letters. 564 00:27:24.186 --> 00:27:26.223 They're all handwritten from prison, 565 00:27:26.290 --> 00:27:29.531 and they're in order of how he sent them to me. 566 00:27:29.598 --> 00:27:33.873 "My prayer for you is to think about it less and less each day 567 00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:36.879 so that your life will be better and better each day." 568 00:27:36.946 --> 00:27:38.516 ANDREA: Wow. 569 00:27:38.583 --> 00:27:41.287 "Think about it less and less every day." 570 00:27:41.354 --> 00:27:43.425 You want me to think about it less and less every day 571 00:27:43.492 --> 00:27:44.928 so it goes away. 572 00:27:44.995 --> 00:27:45.930 - Right. ANDREA: Let's just hit 573 00:27:45.997 --> 00:27:48.034 the delete button. - Yeah. 574 00:27:48.101 --> 00:27:50.673 "I want to restore our marriage. 575 00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:51.942 "I'll do whatever it takes 576 00:27:52.009 --> 00:27:54.146 for you to believe me about that." 577 00:27:54.213 --> 00:27:56.552 - Up until that point, had you given him any indication-- 578 00:27:56.618 --> 00:27:58.222 - No. 579 00:27:58.288 --> 00:28:00.359 No. - Right. 580 00:28:00.425 --> 00:28:02.530 [dramatic music] 581 00:28:02.597 --> 00:28:06.404 JENIFER: I think all he knows is how to try 582 00:28:06.470 --> 00:28:10.714 to get on someone's good side or knows the right things 583 00:28:10.780 --> 00:28:14.555 to say to try to get somebody back. 584 00:28:14.621 --> 00:28:17.093 - He was just trying to, like, write his way through it. 585 00:28:17.159 --> 00:28:18.896 - I mean, why not? Let's go for it. 586 00:28:18.962 --> 00:28:20.666 ANDREA: Yeah, what else is there to lose? 587 00:28:20.733 --> 00:28:23.305 - There's nothing to lose. Let's see if she'll come back. 588 00:28:23.372 --> 00:28:25.910 [cell phone chimes] 589 00:28:25.976 --> 00:28:28.749 One of the women was in running club with him. 590 00:28:28.816 --> 00:28:31.789 And I had found so many photos of her. 591 00:28:31.855 --> 00:28:35.162 Taking photos of her asshole 592 00:28:35.229 --> 00:28:37.567 and sending them to a married man. 593 00:28:37.634 --> 00:28:40.272 A-a picture of her 594 00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:43.311 giving him a blow job in his car. 595 00:28:44.815 --> 00:28:49.758 I couldn't understand... 596 00:28:49.825 --> 00:28:53.566 what type of woman would do that. 597 00:28:53.632 --> 00:28:56.906 And that sounds judgmental, 598 00:28:56.973 --> 00:29:01.515 but I have some empathy for the women. 599 00:29:01.582 --> 00:29:03.820 - Right. But it took you a little while to get there. 600 00:29:03.887 --> 00:29:05.255 JENIFER: Oh, yeah. 601 00:29:05.322 --> 00:29:07.994 And--and in a way, rightfully so. 602 00:29:08.061 --> 00:29:09.932 I mean, at the time, 603 00:29:09.999 --> 00:29:12.436 I was learning that these adult women, 604 00:29:12.504 --> 00:29:13.906 some that I knew, 605 00:29:13.973 --> 00:29:16.546 were carrying on a relationship with my husband. 606 00:29:16.612 --> 00:29:19.149 [dark music] 607 00:29:44.300 --> 00:29:46.371 JENIFER: Everyone wondered 608 00:29:46.438 --> 00:29:49.578 where this kind of behavior came from. 609 00:29:49.645 --> 00:29:51.982 ♪♪ ♪♪ 610 00:29:52.049 --> 00:29:54.153 - After Spencer and his first wife split, 611 00:29:54.220 --> 00:29:56.558 he joined my husband's band. 612 00:29:56.625 --> 00:29:59.430 - ♪♪ Sweet home Alabama ♪♪ 613 00:29:59.497 --> 00:30:03.939 - It seemed like he kind of was...untethered. 614 00:30:04.006 --> 00:30:06.143 [rock music playing] 615 00:30:06.210 --> 00:30:08.281 He was finished with a chapter of his life 616 00:30:08.348 --> 00:30:10.185 that hadn't been what he had planned. 617 00:30:10.252 --> 00:30:11.956 And it felt like there was 618 00:30:12.023 --> 00:30:14.160 a lot of making up for lost time. 619 00:30:14.227 --> 00:30:18.402 I had seen him sow his oats, so to speak. 620 00:30:18.468 --> 00:30:21.207 Like, he didn't get the 20s freedom 621 00:30:21.274 --> 00:30:23.044 that he was planning to have, 622 00:30:23.111 --> 00:30:25.883 and so he did that in his 40s. 623 00:30:25.950 --> 00:30:28.121 ♪♪ ♪♪ 624 00:30:28.187 --> 00:30:29.791 ANDREA: You're talking to another woman. 625 00:30:29.858 --> 00:30:31.127 JENIFER: Yeah. 626 00:30:31.193 --> 00:30:32.630 - One of the affairs? JENIFER: Yeah. 627 00:30:32.697 --> 00:30:34.702 MISTRESS: Hi. - Hi. 628 00:30:34.768 --> 00:30:36.838 Thanks for being here. 629 00:30:36.905 --> 00:30:40.747 You knew him through his first marriage. 630 00:30:40.813 --> 00:30:42.750 MISTRESS: Yes, I did. 631 00:30:42.817 --> 00:30:44.387 - It feels like there was a shift, 632 00:30:44.454 --> 00:30:48.596 that when he got to his single state 633 00:30:48.663 --> 00:30:51.802 that he just gave in 634 00:30:51.868 --> 00:30:53.839 to the hunt for the high. 635 00:30:53.906 --> 00:30:57.881 ♪♪ ♪♪ 636 00:30:57.948 --> 00:30:59.483 MISTRESS: Something did change 637 00:30:59.551 --> 00:31:02.723 once he did, uh, get a divorce. 638 00:31:02.790 --> 00:31:07.567 Um, there was, uh, more than a friendship. 639 00:31:07.634 --> 00:31:10.339 RAE: And from there, it evolved and-- 640 00:31:10.406 --> 00:31:13.646 knowing that he could do things 641 00:31:13.713 --> 00:31:16.785 and get away with stuff. 642 00:31:16.852 --> 00:31:18.990 - Do you remember him talking 643 00:31:19.056 --> 00:31:22.697 about getting married again? 644 00:31:22.764 --> 00:31:23.833 MISTRESS: I do. 645 00:31:23.900 --> 00:31:26.638 I-I do recall that being 646 00:31:26.705 --> 00:31:29.377 just a joyous time for him, Jen. 647 00:31:29.443 --> 00:31:30.780 - Wow. 648 00:31:30.847 --> 00:31:32.951 MISTRESS: I certainly can't speak for him, 649 00:31:33.018 --> 00:31:37.761 but perhaps he felt like, okay, this is--this is it. 650 00:31:37.828 --> 00:31:40.098 All this is gonna stop now. JENIFER: Right. 651 00:31:40.165 --> 00:31:43.070 MISTRESS: I'm gonna focus on this person. 652 00:31:43.137 --> 00:31:45.175 JENIFER: But it didn't stop. 653 00:31:45.241 --> 00:31:47.981 MISTRESS: Right. - Right. 654 00:31:48.047 --> 00:31:50.653 MISTRESS: He's like, well, my wife is gonna be out of town. 655 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:52.924 Why don't you come check out the wine bar? 656 00:31:52.991 --> 00:31:54.761 I thought, okay. Why not? 657 00:31:54.828 --> 00:31:56.164 It's gonna be harmless. 658 00:31:56.231 --> 00:31:59.236 And, well, you know, 659 00:31:59.303 --> 00:32:02.644 it wasn't just a harmless, friendly visit. 660 00:32:02.711 --> 00:32:05.115 It was an intimate visit. 661 00:32:05.182 --> 00:32:07.687 And, um, he certainly sold it 662 00:32:07.754 --> 00:32:11.628 as though you were still on paper married, 663 00:32:11.695 --> 00:32:16.470 but, emotionally, you guys were not together. 664 00:32:16.538 --> 00:32:19.076 ♪♪ ♪♪ 665 00:32:19.143 --> 00:32:20.546 - This is really personal, 666 00:32:20.613 --> 00:32:24.353 but did most of the interactions happen 667 00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:26.324 at the wine bar? 668 00:32:26.391 --> 00:32:28.862 MISTRESS: They did not happen at the wine bar. 669 00:32:28.929 --> 00:32:30.767 ♪♪ ♪♪ 670 00:32:30.833 --> 00:32:32.870 But they did happen at your house. 671 00:32:32.937 --> 00:32:37.379 ♪♪ ♪♪ 672 00:32:37.445 --> 00:32:40.018 - It--it's such a mind-fuck. 673 00:32:40.085 --> 00:32:43.158 ♪♪ ♪♪ 674 00:32:43.225 --> 00:32:44.694 ANDREA: There were no boundaries. 675 00:32:44.761 --> 00:32:45.963 It's whatever he wanted, 676 00:32:46.030 --> 00:32:47.868 wherever he could get the opportunity, 677 00:32:47.934 --> 00:32:49.370 and he would take it. 678 00:32:49.436 --> 00:32:51.174 - [crying] Uh, it's hard, you know, 679 00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.950 to hear that he brought other women into our house. 680 00:32:56.017 --> 00:33:00.225 ♪♪ ♪♪ 681 00:33:00.292 --> 00:33:02.831 Well, thank you so much. 682 00:33:02.898 --> 00:33:05.537 MISTRESS: Yeah, I'm glad that, um, we could speak today. 683 00:33:05.603 --> 00:33:06.705 - Me too. 684 00:33:08.374 --> 00:33:10.345 Speaking with these other women 685 00:33:10.411 --> 00:33:12.817 was a really hard conversation to have. 686 00:33:12.884 --> 00:33:15.790 It was cathartic... 687 00:33:15.856 --> 00:33:18.161 but it was also draining. 688 00:33:18.228 --> 00:33:20.265 Okay. - Are you okay? 689 00:33:20.331 --> 00:33:23.539 - Yeah, it's just, I mean... 690 00:33:23.605 --> 00:33:24.942 fuck. 691 00:33:25.008 --> 00:33:26.578 - The whole time, I just wanted to hug you. 692 00:33:26.645 --> 00:33:28.148 So can I hug you? JENIFER: Aw, of course. 693 00:33:28.214 --> 00:33:29.449 - I'm so sorry. JENIFER: It's okay. 694 00:33:29.517 --> 00:33:30.953 - That must not have been easy. 695 00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:33.592 ♪♪ ♪♪ 696 00:33:33.659 --> 00:33:36.698 JENIFER: You know, hearing he brought a woman in there 697 00:33:36.765 --> 00:33:39.971 and had sex with her... 698 00:33:40.038 --> 00:33:42.978 and didn't give a shit. 699 00:33:43.044 --> 00:33:45.148 And she's not the only one. 700 00:33:45.215 --> 00:33:46.618 - No. JENIFER: We know that. 701 00:33:46.685 --> 00:33:48.522 - No, we know. 702 00:33:48.589 --> 00:33:50.192 FRIEND: I came to your house once. 703 00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:51.494 He talked me into going, 704 00:33:51.562 --> 00:33:52.863 and I was just like, yeah, 705 00:33:52.930 --> 00:33:53.999 I'll come over quick. 706 00:33:54.066 --> 00:33:55.970 Whatever, you know? 707 00:33:56.037 --> 00:33:58.642 He said that you were traveling or something. 708 00:33:58.709 --> 00:34:01.882 He took my hand, and he took me upstairs. 709 00:34:01.949 --> 00:34:03.886 He had things set up in the upper bedroom 710 00:34:03.953 --> 00:34:06.858 with, like, candles and shit. 711 00:34:06.925 --> 00:34:09.965 - Consequences shape behavior. 712 00:34:10.032 --> 00:34:13.572 FRIEND: He made me feel like I was the only one. 713 00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:15.643 RAMANI: In this case, the rights of more 714 00:34:15.710 --> 00:34:17.580 and more people are being violated 715 00:34:17.647 --> 00:34:20.118 because there's no consideration of consequence 716 00:34:20.184 --> 00:34:22.590 because there's not been a consequence. 717 00:34:22.657 --> 00:34:25.495 FRIEND: He knew he was taking advantage of that. 718 00:34:29.537 --> 00:34:31.842 ANDREA: One of Jen's friends was having an affair 719 00:34:31.909 --> 00:34:33.477 with Spencer. 720 00:34:33.545 --> 00:34:36.016 But it didn't sit right with her. 721 00:34:36.083 --> 00:34:37.319 FRIEND: I was blindly 722 00:34:37.386 --> 00:34:39.089 taken advantage of. 723 00:34:39.156 --> 00:34:40.491 ANDREA: And there was this moment 724 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:42.864 that kind of dawned on her that... 725 00:34:42.930 --> 00:34:45.368 I'm not the only one. 726 00:34:45.435 --> 00:34:46.337 FRIEND: That was the point 727 00:34:46.404 --> 00:34:47.707 where I-I couldn't, 728 00:34:47.773 --> 00:34:49.376 and I told him no. 729 00:34:49.443 --> 00:34:52.517 And we got into an argument. 730 00:34:52.584 --> 00:34:54.988 I felt like I just couldn't do this because of the regret 731 00:34:55.055 --> 00:34:57.928 I had for what I was doing to you and my family. 732 00:34:57.994 --> 00:35:00.900 [dramatic music] 733 00:35:00.967 --> 00:35:02.971 ♪♪ ♪♪ 734 00:35:03.038 --> 00:35:05.075 I ended up telling my husband on my own 735 00:35:05.141 --> 00:35:07.781 without him ever even finding anything out, 736 00:35:07.847 --> 00:35:09.751 because it was just eating at me. 737 00:35:09.818 --> 00:35:11.955 ♪♪ ♪♪ 738 00:35:12.022 --> 00:35:14.794 I'm like, I did something really horrible. 739 00:35:14.861 --> 00:35:17.701 And he's like, did you have sex? 740 00:35:17.767 --> 00:35:19.804 And I said yes. 741 00:35:19.871 --> 00:35:21.742 And that was the utmost hardest thing 742 00:35:21.809 --> 00:35:23.812 I've ever had to do. 743 00:35:23.879 --> 00:35:26.284 [tense music] 744 00:35:26.350 --> 00:35:29.524 - Then her husband confronted Spence. 745 00:35:29.591 --> 00:35:32.329 - And there was an extremely heated conversation. 746 00:35:32.396 --> 00:35:34.701 ♪♪ ♪♪ 747 00:35:34.768 --> 00:35:36.738 FRIEND: Just yelling and screaming. 748 00:35:36.805 --> 00:35:39.645 And he wanted to rip him apart. 749 00:35:39.711 --> 00:35:43.117 JENIFER: Then years later, after I found out, 750 00:35:43.184 --> 00:35:46.925 her husband calls me and says, 751 00:35:46.992 --> 00:35:48.796 "I have to tell you something. 752 00:35:48.862 --> 00:35:51.200 "I've known about this for a few years now. 753 00:35:51.266 --> 00:35:53.773 "I found out that something happened 754 00:35:53.839 --> 00:35:55.309 between the two of them." 755 00:35:55.375 --> 00:35:58.414 These are people living in my town. 756 00:35:58.481 --> 00:36:03.057 And somehow Spence is able to convince this husband 757 00:36:03.124 --> 00:36:05.996 not to say anything to me. 758 00:36:06.063 --> 00:36:08.067 ♪♪ ♪♪ 759 00:36:08.134 --> 00:36:09.670 You know, when you find out 760 00:36:09.737 --> 00:36:12.376 that not only were you betrayed 761 00:36:12.443 --> 00:36:13.645 by someone you love 762 00:36:13.712 --> 00:36:16.117 but then betrayed by other people 763 00:36:16.184 --> 00:36:18.388 that you thought care about you, 764 00:36:18.454 --> 00:36:21.260 it's double the betrayal. 765 00:36:21.326 --> 00:36:22.763 It's double the hurt. 766 00:36:22.830 --> 00:36:25.435 ♪♪ ♪♪ 767 00:36:25.503 --> 00:36:29.410 How somebody is able to manage 768 00:36:29.477 --> 00:36:33.251 so many different people at one time 769 00:36:33.318 --> 00:36:37.794 and then also come home and act like the perfect husband... 770 00:36:37.861 --> 00:36:41.200 that is a answer 771 00:36:41.267 --> 00:36:43.939 I don't know that I will ever find. 772 00:37:13.799 --> 00:37:16.805 JENIFER: In doing the podcast, 773 00:37:16.872 --> 00:37:20.980 I had to relive things again and again. 774 00:37:21.046 --> 00:37:23.686 ANDREA: One of the big things that we've talked about was 775 00:37:23.752 --> 00:37:27.092 you really trying to figure out the man you married. 776 00:37:27.158 --> 00:37:29.262 And so the purpose and the decision 777 00:37:29.329 --> 00:37:32.369 for you to sit down with the other women 778 00:37:32.436 --> 00:37:34.975 and just talk to them was about... 779 00:37:35.041 --> 00:37:40.052 working through shame and giving each other time... 780 00:37:40.118 --> 00:37:42.590 to release that shame. 781 00:37:42.657 --> 00:37:46.698 - Yeah, I think those conversations... 782 00:37:46.765 --> 00:37:48.467 were great, 783 00:37:48.535 --> 00:37:51.774 and they held answers to the questions I had. 784 00:37:51.841 --> 00:37:56.050 - What's important about your journey is that you want to see 785 00:37:56.117 --> 00:37:59.991 the raw, ugly truth, 786 00:38:00.058 --> 00:38:02.930 and you're brave enough and strong enough to face it. 787 00:38:02.997 --> 00:38:03.932 JENIFER: Yeah. 788 00:38:03.999 --> 00:38:06.638 ♪♪ ♪♪ 789 00:38:06.705 --> 00:38:09.443 I think what I learned most 790 00:38:09.510 --> 00:38:12.616 from talking with the women in the podcast... 791 00:38:13.952 --> 00:38:16.992 Was to have compassion for them. 792 00:38:17.058 --> 00:38:18.863 Yes, they made a mistake. 793 00:38:18.929 --> 00:38:21.400 Yet they were also very manipulated 794 00:38:21.467 --> 00:38:23.371 and used. 795 00:38:23.438 --> 00:38:25.475 ♪♪ ♪♪ 796 00:38:25.543 --> 00:38:28.616 GOULD: But not only did Jen find out 797 00:38:28.682 --> 00:38:32.791 that Spencer was leading a secret life 798 00:38:32.857 --> 00:38:35.996 and was lying for all of these years 799 00:38:36.063 --> 00:38:37.700 and was cheating on her, 800 00:38:37.767 --> 00:38:41.608 but he also escalated so much in his behaviors... 801 00:38:43.010 --> 00:38:46.416 That he became a predator and a criminal. 802 00:38:49.256 --> 00:38:50.959 [school bell rings] 803 00:38:51.026 --> 00:38:53.497 WIGINGTON: Slowly I just began to realize, 804 00:38:53.565 --> 00:38:56.938 okay, he cheated on her every day. 805 00:38:57.005 --> 00:39:00.780 If he is this addicted, 806 00:39:00.847 --> 00:39:02.483 yes, he did. 807 00:39:02.550 --> 00:39:04.521 He did it. He had sex with a student. 808 00:39:04.587 --> 00:39:07.526 [dark music] 809 00:39:07.593 --> 00:39:10.699 ♪♪ ♪♪ 810 00:39:10.766 --> 00:39:14.607 - I would go online and look up every police report... 811 00:39:16.077 --> 00:39:18.816 Anything that they posted that was public record, 812 00:39:18.882 --> 00:39:22.724 because I wanted to know the truth. 813 00:39:22.791 --> 00:39:27.265 I found out that he had been sexually assaulting 814 00:39:27.332 --> 00:39:30.371 the student for two years. 815 00:39:30.438 --> 00:39:32.943 The grooming started when she was 15. 816 00:39:33.010 --> 00:39:36.718 The sex might have started when she was 16. 817 00:39:36.784 --> 00:39:39.557 ANDREA: The age of consent in Georgia is 16, 818 00:39:39.624 --> 00:39:40.993 but the way that it works in Georgia 819 00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:43.732 is that it is illegal for a teacher 820 00:39:43.799 --> 00:39:46.972 to have any sexual relationship with a student, 821 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.411 no matter what age-- even if you're 18. 822 00:39:50.478 --> 00:39:53.786 So Spencer was not arrested for statutory rape. 823 00:39:53.852 --> 00:39:56.591 He was arrested for sexually assaulting a student. 824 00:39:56.658 --> 00:39:58.595 Spencer was in jail, 825 00:39:58.662 --> 00:40:01.602 between the arrest and the court date, 826 00:40:01.668 --> 00:40:03.437 about six months. 827 00:40:03.505 --> 00:40:06.210 JENIFER: He couldn't afford a defense attorney, 828 00:40:06.276 --> 00:40:08.347 so he had a public defender. 829 00:40:08.414 --> 00:40:10.385 And he did not like that one bit. 830 00:40:10.452 --> 00:40:12.623 ♪♪ ♪♪ 831 00:40:12.690 --> 00:40:14.125 FLYNN BROADY JR: Normally what will happen is, 832 00:40:14.192 --> 00:40:16.297 based on the case, based on their history, 833 00:40:16.364 --> 00:40:17.967 we'll make a plea recommendation 834 00:40:18.034 --> 00:40:19.336 to the defense attorney. 835 00:40:19.402 --> 00:40:21.842 And then the defense attorney takes that to the defendant 836 00:40:21.908 --> 00:40:23.278 and then makes the decision 837 00:40:23.344 --> 00:40:25.682 whether they want to go to trial. 838 00:40:25.749 --> 00:40:28.354 - And so he pled guilty. 839 00:40:28.421 --> 00:40:30.993 ♪♪ ♪♪ 840 00:40:31.060 --> 00:40:34.033 WIGINGTON: And I think that people just were shocked 841 00:40:34.099 --> 00:40:36.270 in that moment. 842 00:40:36.337 --> 00:40:37.472 There were still people 843 00:40:37.540 --> 00:40:39.175 who just didn't believe that he did it 844 00:40:39.242 --> 00:40:41.782 and thought he was just kind of taking an easy way out. 845 00:40:41.848 --> 00:40:44.152 And they were like, well, why did he do that? 846 00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:47.159 ♪♪ ♪♪ 847 00:40:47.226 --> 00:40:50.866 - In Cobb County, they found evidence for five events 848 00:40:50.933 --> 00:40:52.737 where they actually had sexual contact. 849 00:40:52.803 --> 00:40:54.807 He would probably be easily found guilty 850 00:40:54.874 --> 00:40:58.147 based on, um, the evidence that came forward in the case. 851 00:40:58.214 --> 00:41:00.451 ♪♪ ♪♪ 852 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:02.756 - In court, Spencer made the request 853 00:41:02.823 --> 00:41:06.196 to talk to the victim's parents. 854 00:41:08.034 --> 00:41:10.238 JENIFER: Maybe he thought, I bet I can convince them 855 00:41:10.305 --> 00:41:14.681 that I'm too good of a guy to--to go to prison. 856 00:41:15.582 --> 00:41:19.223 They said, we don't want to hear anything you have to say. 857 00:41:19.289 --> 00:41:21.260 And... 858 00:41:21.327 --> 00:41:23.230 good for them, 859 00:41:23.297 --> 00:41:27.138 because I really believe that Spence thinks 860 00:41:27.205 --> 00:41:30.011 that he can talk himself out of things. 861 00:41:30.077 --> 00:41:32.983 [dark music] 862 00:41:33.050 --> 00:41:35.188 Spence had sent out this letter 863 00:41:35.254 --> 00:41:37.225 to all of our friends and family, 864 00:41:37.292 --> 00:41:41.734 asking for people to write references for him. 865 00:41:41.801 --> 00:41:45.709 A couple of his friends wrote letters of support. 866 00:41:45.776 --> 00:41:47.279 "He's such a great guy. 867 00:41:47.345 --> 00:41:48.715 "He's the Eagle Scout, 868 00:41:48.781 --> 00:41:52.590 dad, Air Force, Teacher of the Year." 869 00:41:52.656 --> 00:41:55.195 I couldn't do it. 870 00:41:55.261 --> 00:41:57.498 How do you write a letter about someone 871 00:41:57.566 --> 00:41:59.402 and say that they're a good person 872 00:41:59.469 --> 00:42:02.108 if you know that they... 873 00:42:02.175 --> 00:42:04.614 sexually assaulted 874 00:42:04.681 --> 00:42:09.189 a 16-year-old girl at 48, 49 years old? 875 00:42:09.256 --> 00:42:11.928 ♪♪ ♪♪ 876 00:42:13.966 --> 00:42:15.969 NEWSCASTER: In Cobb County, Spencer Herron, 877 00:42:16.036 --> 00:42:17.573 the former Teacher of the Year, 878 00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:21.046 is headed to prison for having sex with a student. 879 00:42:21.113 --> 00:42:25.889 SINGER: ♪♪ I'm praying for an angel to come ♪♪ 880 00:42:25.956 --> 00:42:30.732 ♪♪ I'm waiting for a star to fall ♪♪ 881 00:42:30.799 --> 00:42:34.641 ♪♪ Standing at the edge of the shore ♪♪ 882 00:42:34.708 --> 00:42:36.143 ♪♪ Oh, yeah ♪♪ 883 00:42:36.210 --> 00:42:40.920 ♪♪ Waiting for the rain to fall ♪♪ 884 00:42:40.986 --> 00:42:44.760 - Spence was sentenced in January of 2019. 885 00:42:44.827 --> 00:42:49.502 SINGER: ♪♪ You know the damage is done ♪♪ 886 00:42:49.570 --> 00:42:51.541 ♪♪ ♪♪ 887 00:42:51.608 --> 00:42:53.176 - He was sentenced to 20 years, 888 00:42:53.243 --> 00:42:57.318 5 in confinement and then 15 on probation. 889 00:42:57.385 --> 00:43:00.291 - I stayed in touch with him until the day he was convicted. 890 00:43:00.358 --> 00:43:02.796 SINGER: ♪♪ Through the dark, I see your eyes ♪♪ 891 00:43:02.863 --> 00:43:05.135 ♪♪ Calling me into the half-light ♪♪ 892 00:43:05.201 --> 00:43:07.305 ♪♪ All I can see is an outline ♪♪ 893 00:43:07.372 --> 00:43:11.581 JENIFER: That same day, our divorce was finalized. 894 00:43:11.647 --> 00:43:14.053 SINGER: ♪♪ I lay it to rest for the last time ♪♪ 895 00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:17.291 ♪♪ You know the damage is done ♪♪ 896 00:43:17.358 --> 00:43:19.329 - There is a distinction between what he did 897 00:43:19.395 --> 00:43:22.937 with Jenifer and breaking that marriage vow... 898 00:43:23.004 --> 00:43:26.110 and making a conscious decision 899 00:43:26.176 --> 00:43:28.548 to engage in that behavior with a student. 900 00:43:28.615 --> 00:43:30.686 ♪♪ ♪♪ 901 00:43:30.753 --> 00:43:33.324 As 16-year-old kids, 902 00:43:33.391 --> 00:43:36.163 we don't know what the fuck's going on with the world. 903 00:43:36.229 --> 00:43:38.735 And we don't know what's even going on in our heads. 904 00:43:38.802 --> 00:43:40.906 There's so many things that are just happening 905 00:43:40.973 --> 00:43:44.078 that we just don't understand. 906 00:43:58.675 --> 00:44:00.745 - Go and have as many affairs 907 00:44:00.812 --> 00:44:03.618 with as many women as you want. 908 00:44:03.685 --> 00:44:05.722 But why would you prey on a child? 909 00:44:05.789 --> 00:44:08.327 ♪♪ ♪♪ 910 00:44:14.807 --> 00:44:16.911 [music ends] 65825

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