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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:12,353 --> 00:00:14,993 (DRAMATIC PULSATING MUSIC) 4 00:00:23,712 --> 00:00:26,711 (TRAIN HORN BLARES) 5 00:00:31,151 --> 00:00:33,431 (SOMBRE VOCAL MUSIC) 6 00:00:46,509 --> 00:00:48,509 (WOMAN PRAYS IN HEBREW) 7 00:00:53,548 --> 00:00:55,548 (BAKING PAPER RUSTLES) 8 00:00:56,308 --> 00:00:58,687 WOMAN: Even if I don't pray three times a day, 9 00:00:58,787 --> 00:01:02,367 I definitely have a very deep spiritual connection to God. 10 00:01:02,467 --> 00:01:04,447 I will just talk to God, you know? 11 00:01:04,547 --> 00:01:05,967 "Please, God, make the dough work today," 12 00:01:06,067 --> 00:01:07,446 'cause of the one day of filming, 13 00:01:07,546 --> 00:01:09,646 I don't want the dough to not work, things like that. 14 00:01:09,746 --> 00:01:12,326 But, like, I will talk to God at all different times. 15 00:01:12,426 --> 00:01:15,005 It's the judges and the lawyers 16 00:01:15,105 --> 00:01:16,845 and it's all the annoying people who are doing all these things, 17 00:01:16,945 --> 00:01:18,925 but God is running the world 18 00:01:19,025 --> 00:01:21,005 and this is what's coming from him, 19 00:01:21,105 --> 00:01:22,965 so I have to accept that 20 00:01:23,065 --> 00:01:26,364 and I think I'll feel that way also about the verdict. 21 00:01:26,464 --> 00:01:28,884 I will hope that she's found guilty, 22 00:01:28,984 --> 00:01:32,163 but that will test my faith, for sure. 23 00:01:32,263 --> 00:01:33,843 Yeah. 24 00:01:33,943 --> 00:01:35,763 (GENTLE BIRDSONG) 25 00:01:35,863 --> 00:01:38,563 NICOLE: My sisters and I are each on such different journeys 26 00:01:38,663 --> 00:01:40,242 in regards to faith, 27 00:01:40,342 --> 00:01:42,882 and we just respect each other where we're at. 28 00:01:42,982 --> 00:01:45,762 -(CAT MEOWS) -Good boy, Stormy. 29 00:01:45,862 --> 00:01:48,981 Good boy. Leah's gonna come pick you up now. 30 00:01:50,701 --> 00:01:51,841 Good boy. 31 00:01:51,941 --> 00:01:55,041 Oh, he's so scared. Poor thing. 32 00:01:55,141 --> 00:01:56,840 (STORMY MEOWS) 33 00:01:56,940 --> 00:01:58,520 I just wanted to let you know, 34 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:00,040 I'm really struggling with, like, 35 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:02,000 really low blood pressure at the moment, 36 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:04,559 so I've got some medication 37 00:02:04,659 --> 00:02:06,399 that pushes up my blood pressure 38 00:02:06,499 --> 00:02:10,519 and I'm gonna try and time the medication 39 00:02:10,619 --> 00:02:13,238 to fit in with the breaks in court. 40 00:02:13,338 --> 00:02:15,158 (VOICE FADES) I'm just going to need somewhere 41 00:02:15,258 --> 00:02:17,258 that I can lie down with my feet up. 42 00:02:21,537 --> 00:02:23,157 NICOLE: Whoa, Dassi, that's close. 43 00:02:23,257 --> 00:02:24,957 Chams, it's not that close. 44 00:02:25,057 --> 00:02:26,597 NICOLE: You're, like, half in this lane. 45 00:02:26,697 --> 00:02:28,757 DASSI: You're being such a side-seat driver today. 46 00:02:28,857 --> 00:02:30,356 Do you want me to get out and you drive? 47 00:02:30,456 --> 00:02:32,276 -NICOLE: No, thanks. -DASSI: I'm nervous. 48 00:02:32,376 --> 00:02:34,316 NICOLE: Are you still waking up in the middle of the night 49 00:02:34,416 --> 00:02:35,876 and not being able to fall back asleep again 50 00:02:35,976 --> 00:02:37,196 or has that changed? 51 00:02:37,296 --> 00:02:40,355 No, that's a... that's a forever thing for me. 52 00:02:40,455 --> 00:02:43,715 I always sleep better when me and you and Elly are together. 53 00:02:43,815 --> 00:02:46,874 NICOLE: Hey, we're five minutes away from you. 54 00:02:46,974 --> 00:02:48,994 I forgot my toothpaste, my brush and my toothbrush. 55 00:02:49,094 --> 00:02:50,274 Do you have a new one? 56 00:02:50,374 --> 00:02:51,454 -ELLY: I should have. -DASSI: And toothpaste. 57 00:02:51,534 --> 00:02:52,914 Because I also don't have toothpaste. 58 00:02:53,014 --> 00:02:54,113 And toothpaste, 'cause Dassi didn't bring. 59 00:02:54,213 --> 00:02:56,353 'Cause I was relying on Chams's toothpaste. 60 00:02:56,453 --> 00:02:58,233 -ELLY: Love you. -MAN: Say, "I love you, Mama." 61 00:02:58,333 --> 00:02:59,873 -She's too busy. -Too busy. 62 00:02:59,973 --> 00:03:02,312 Yeah, there's too many things going on. 63 00:03:02,412 --> 00:03:04,492 OK, alright. 64 00:03:06,292 --> 00:03:07,472 I love you. 65 00:03:07,572 --> 00:03:08,792 Love you too. 66 00:03:08,892 --> 00:03:11,751 ELLY: Thank you for taking care of everything today. 67 00:03:11,851 --> 00:03:15,631 Danny and I did quite a bit of preparation today. 68 00:03:15,731 --> 00:03:16,831 He's not my therapist, 69 00:03:16,931 --> 00:03:18,311 but I don't have a therapist at the moment, 70 00:03:18,411 --> 00:03:20,230 so he's doing all the preparation with me 71 00:03:20,330 --> 00:03:21,910 and he's really good. 72 00:03:22,010 --> 00:03:24,870 -'Bye, Maddie. -DANNY: Say, "Bye-bye, Mama." 73 00:03:24,970 --> 00:03:27,389 -(MADDIE SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) -The bear goes to sleep. 74 00:03:27,489 --> 00:03:29,429 -Bear goes to sleep. -OK, that's OK. 75 00:03:29,529 --> 00:03:31,949 Alright, love you. 76 00:03:32,049 --> 00:03:34,049 DANNY: Bye-bye. 77 00:03:35,249 --> 00:03:37,108 -ELLY: Hello. -NICOLE: Hello. 78 00:03:37,208 --> 00:03:38,908 OK, so put her in the back next to you, 79 00:03:39,008 --> 00:03:40,428 'cause there's no room in the boot for that. 80 00:03:40,528 --> 00:03:42,548 -I'm sitting like that? -Yeah, that's fine. Perfect. 81 00:03:42,648 --> 00:03:44,307 -ELLY: Yeah, OK. -I'm sitting on this side. 82 00:03:44,407 --> 00:03:46,407 ELLY: Alright. OK. 83 00:03:46,967 --> 00:03:48,387 (CAR DOOR SHUTS) 84 00:03:48,487 --> 00:03:49,707 (TRAFFIC HUBBUB) 85 00:03:49,807 --> 00:03:51,107 ELLY: Nicole, Dassi and I 86 00:03:51,207 --> 00:03:54,946 decided that to be in the best headspace for trial, 87 00:03:55,046 --> 00:03:58,986 we should rent a apartment close to the courts. 88 00:03:59,086 --> 00:04:03,385 O...3, right here. 89 00:04:03,485 --> 00:04:04,865 We're actually doing this now. 90 00:04:04,965 --> 00:04:06,825 DASSI: So that we can be there to support each other, 91 00:04:06,925 --> 00:04:09,744 but also so that we can separate, as much as possible, 92 00:04:09,844 --> 00:04:11,504 that trauma from the rest of our lives 93 00:04:11,604 --> 00:04:13,584 because we all knew that we were gonna struggle with that. 94 00:04:13,684 --> 00:04:15,424 Are you sure we're in the right place, 95 00:04:15,524 --> 00:04:17,903 and and this is not someone else's place? 96 00:04:18,003 --> 00:04:19,463 We all knew that it had an impact 97 00:04:19,563 --> 00:04:23,543 on our partners or kids or friends. 98 00:04:23,643 --> 00:04:26,662 We wanted to separate that as much as possible. 99 00:04:26,762 --> 00:04:28,302 Can I have this bedroom? 100 00:04:28,402 --> 00:04:31,502 -Um, do you want to toss a coin? -Should we work it out, Dassi? 101 00:04:31,602 --> 00:04:33,981 There's three different study spaces, which is great. 102 00:04:34,081 --> 00:04:36,181 DASSI: We're not doing any prep tonight. 103 00:04:36,281 --> 00:04:38,581 No, I don't... Are you doing prep tonight? 104 00:04:38,681 --> 00:04:41,180 No. Until it actually happens... 105 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:42,700 NICOLE: But it's happening this Tuesday. 106 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,100 -I know. I know. -NICOLE: This Tuesday. 107 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,220 But in my mind, it's like, "Maybe it's not for sure," 108 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,740 so I don't want to get into that headspace. 109 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,579 I feel you, but this now 110 00:04:49,679 --> 00:04:52,259 has made it, like, one step closer to feeling real. 111 00:04:52,359 --> 00:04:55,259 ELLY: Being together through trial and before trial 112 00:04:55,359 --> 00:04:57,938 was the best decision we made. 113 00:04:58,038 --> 00:05:00,058 That became our haven 114 00:05:00,158 --> 00:05:02,378 away from all the horrors of the courtroom. 115 00:05:02,478 --> 00:05:03,698 -(SOMBRE VOCAL MUSIC) -(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK) 116 00:05:03,798 --> 00:05:05,138 REPORTER: Ms Leifer, do you have anything to say 117 00:05:05,238 --> 00:05:06,537 to the alleged victims? 118 00:05:06,637 --> 00:05:08,497 NEWSREADER: On to the case of a school principal 119 00:05:08,597 --> 00:05:09,737 wanted in Australia 120 00:05:09,837 --> 00:05:13,777 for more than 70 counts of sexual offences. 121 00:05:13,877 --> 00:05:16,416 REPORTER: The allegations dated back two decades 122 00:05:16,516 --> 00:05:18,016 to Malka Leifer's time 123 00:05:18,116 --> 00:05:21,256 as the head of the ultra- Orthodox Adass Israel School. 124 00:05:21,356 --> 00:05:24,175 NEWSREADER 2: Where she's charged with 74 counts 125 00:05:24,275 --> 00:05:26,215 of rape and sexual assault. 126 00:05:26,315 --> 00:05:28,495 REPORTER 2: Malka Leifer fled Melbourne 127 00:05:28,595 --> 00:05:31,054 after the first allegation surfaced. 128 00:05:31,154 --> 00:05:33,294 REPORTER 3: Malka Leifer has been holed up 129 00:05:33,394 --> 00:05:35,894 in an ultra-Orthodox settlement in the West Bank. 130 00:05:35,994 --> 00:05:38,893 MAN: This was someone that's actively pursuing little girls. 131 00:05:38,993 --> 00:05:42,373 NEWSREADER 3: The ongoing fight to extradite Malka Leifer, 132 00:05:42,473 --> 00:05:45,533 straining relations between the two countries. 133 00:05:45,633 --> 00:05:47,332 REPORTER 4: As the trial of Malka Leifer 134 00:05:47,432 --> 00:05:49,012 gets underway in Melbourne, 135 00:05:49,112 --> 00:05:50,212 the question is, 136 00:05:50,312 --> 00:05:52,092 why did it take 15 years 137 00:05:52,192 --> 00:05:53,932 to bring her to justice? 138 00:05:54,032 --> 00:05:57,271 And what is the cost to the alleged victims? 139 00:06:00,351 --> 00:06:02,491 (SOMBRE VOCAL MUSIC FADES) 140 00:06:02,591 --> 00:06:04,590 (SPARSE MUSIC) 141 00:06:06,830 --> 00:06:09,330 DASSI: I grew up incredibly isolated 142 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:11,850 from the world outside of my community. 143 00:06:11,950 --> 00:06:13,209 (TRAM BELL DINGS) 144 00:06:13,309 --> 00:06:16,649 The Adass community is based in East St Kilda. 145 00:06:16,749 --> 00:06:19,849 It's around 250 to 300 families 146 00:06:19,949 --> 00:06:23,088 that live almost in a 4-block radius 147 00:06:23,188 --> 00:06:27,288 and don't really go out of that 4-block radius. 148 00:06:27,388 --> 00:06:30,167 MAN: Adass is its own little world 149 00:06:30,267 --> 00:06:32,167 within the Jewish community 150 00:06:32,267 --> 00:06:33,887 and even within the Orthodox Jewish community. 151 00:06:33,987 --> 00:06:35,647 Very, very insular. 152 00:06:35,747 --> 00:06:39,286 It's a very fundamentalist part of Judaism. 153 00:06:39,386 --> 00:06:41,686 WOMAN: It has very deep traditions 154 00:06:41,786 --> 00:06:44,206 that bind family ties. 155 00:06:44,306 --> 00:06:47,725 It's a insular, caring community 156 00:06:47,825 --> 00:06:49,205 that takes care of each other. 157 00:06:49,305 --> 00:06:51,525 WOMAN 2: Girls helped around the house. 158 00:06:51,625 --> 00:06:53,444 They got off school two weeks early 159 00:06:53,544 --> 00:06:55,324 before major festivals like Passover 160 00:06:55,424 --> 00:06:56,884 so they could clean the house. 161 00:06:56,984 --> 00:06:58,204 Even when they were kids, 162 00:06:58,304 --> 00:07:01,923 they were being geared up to being wives. 163 00:07:02,023 --> 00:07:04,003 Men and women were kept completely separate, 164 00:07:04,103 --> 00:07:05,323 in different schools. 165 00:07:05,423 --> 00:07:07,723 ASHLEY: They would do the absolute bare minimum 166 00:07:07,823 --> 00:07:09,283 as required by the government - 167 00:07:09,383 --> 00:07:11,642 very basic numeracy and literacy - 168 00:07:11,742 --> 00:07:13,642 but otherwise it is entirely based 169 00:07:13,742 --> 00:07:15,402 in Jewish text, Jewish learning. 170 00:07:15,502 --> 00:07:16,882 Therefore, their exposure 171 00:07:16,982 --> 00:07:20,961 and understanding of the world around them is negligible. 172 00:07:21,061 --> 00:07:23,161 They don't have internet at home, don't have TV at home. 173 00:07:23,261 --> 00:07:27,280 BEN: It's built on secrecy, privacy. 174 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:30,160 Anything that arises, it's all taken up within the community. 175 00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:33,040 If you have a dispute, there's no need to take it outside. 176 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:35,339 Everything is kept in-house. 177 00:07:36,779 --> 00:07:39,299 -(SIREN BLARES IN DISTANCE) -(TRAFFIC HUBBUB) 178 00:07:42,419 --> 00:07:44,858 (UNEASY MUSIC RISES AND FADES) 179 00:08:01,376 --> 00:08:04,996 So this is the, um, $9.20 180 00:08:05,096 --> 00:08:08,675 that I have received with my summons 181 00:08:08,775 --> 00:08:10,835 for the Malka Leifer trial, 182 00:08:10,935 --> 00:08:14,395 and that's for help to get to the court 183 00:08:14,495 --> 00:08:17,474 by tram or by public transport, whatever I feel like. 184 00:08:17,574 --> 00:08:19,754 So I'm feeling a little bit rich. 185 00:08:19,854 --> 00:08:22,334 Feeling a little bit rich today. 186 00:08:24,053 --> 00:08:25,993 NICOLE: We haven't been prepared in any way 187 00:08:26,093 --> 00:08:29,553 how to speak on the stand or told how to do this. 188 00:08:29,653 --> 00:08:31,713 We've just been given a page of charges. 189 00:08:31,813 --> 00:08:35,872 It gives us the location or the particular for each charge, 190 00:08:35,972 --> 00:08:38,752 so whether it was an office or at camp, 191 00:08:38,852 --> 00:08:40,152 depending on each incident, 192 00:08:40,252 --> 00:08:41,831 where the abuse happened. 193 00:08:41,931 --> 00:08:45,791 And then I need to read through my statement 194 00:08:45,891 --> 00:08:48,870 and all the detail has to be memorised 195 00:08:48,970 --> 00:08:50,970 in chronological order. 196 00:08:53,050 --> 00:08:55,590 So I'm just trying to be comfortable 197 00:08:55,690 --> 00:08:58,029 with saying words that I find very difficult to say. 198 00:08:58,129 --> 00:09:01,109 ELLY: I have a timeline that I've drawn up 199 00:09:01,209 --> 00:09:04,469 from the day I was born until today 200 00:09:04,569 --> 00:09:09,188 with any significant events over the years, 201 00:09:09,288 --> 00:09:12,508 and then I can visualise the timeline 202 00:09:12,608 --> 00:09:14,107 when I'm answering questions. 203 00:09:14,207 --> 00:09:15,907 Especially with trauma, 204 00:09:16,007 --> 00:09:18,227 there's just so many details of events 205 00:09:18,327 --> 00:09:20,267 that sometimes blur into each other 206 00:09:20,367 --> 00:09:22,146 and I just don't wanna get overwhelmed 207 00:09:22,246 --> 00:09:24,386 with the amount of questions 208 00:09:24,486 --> 00:09:26,306 that are asked in different ways. 209 00:09:26,406 --> 00:09:29,226 (MURMURS) 210 00:09:29,326 --> 00:09:32,185 DASSI: Because I know what it's like to be in that headspace, 211 00:09:32,285 --> 00:09:35,545 I'm just terrified of going back there. 212 00:09:35,645 --> 00:09:39,744 Like, I'm seeing her in my head all the time 213 00:09:39,844 --> 00:09:43,624 and I'm seeing what she did to me again and again and again, 214 00:09:43,724 --> 00:09:45,984 because I'm reading about those incidents 215 00:09:46,084 --> 00:09:47,623 again and again and again. 216 00:09:47,723 --> 00:09:51,263 (DASSI CONTINUES MURMURING) 217 00:09:51,363 --> 00:09:53,143 I don't even have to close my eyes. 218 00:09:53,243 --> 00:09:55,242 It's just constantly playing there. 219 00:09:56,482 --> 00:09:59,022 When I'm in there, I don't want to be around anyone. 220 00:09:59,122 --> 00:10:00,782 I don't want to be a parent. 221 00:10:00,882 --> 00:10:02,881 My daughter's staying with her dad. 222 00:10:04,081 --> 00:10:07,321 But I need to get into that headspace to be on the stand. 223 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,580 ELLY: I will go home soon. 224 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:16,460 I need to be a mum 225 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,140 and put this to the back of my head 226 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,299 and be there for my daughter. 227 00:10:21,399 --> 00:10:23,539 That's the most important thing to me. 228 00:10:23,639 --> 00:10:25,979 I just want to give her the best version of me 229 00:10:26,079 --> 00:10:28,118 and that's not with these... 230 00:10:29,878 --> 00:10:31,878 ..memories... 231 00:10:32,998 --> 00:10:35,198 ..being a dark cloud over our time. 232 00:10:39,957 --> 00:10:41,497 (SWITCH CLICKS) 233 00:10:41,597 --> 00:10:43,597 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 234 00:10:47,676 --> 00:10:49,736 NICOLE: My sisters and I shared one room. 235 00:10:49,836 --> 00:10:53,435 There was a bunk bed where my two sisters slept. 236 00:10:54,395 --> 00:10:57,435 I slept on a trundle that was pulled out at night. 237 00:10:59,755 --> 00:11:02,294 Above that were three shelves. 238 00:11:02,394 --> 00:11:03,574 The bottom shelf 239 00:11:03,674 --> 00:11:06,774 was all these little miniature beds, bookshelves, 240 00:11:06,874 --> 00:11:09,193 tiny little china plates, forks and knives. 241 00:11:10,513 --> 00:11:12,933 Plenty of times, inserted myself into that world 242 00:11:13,033 --> 00:11:15,533 because that world on that shelf 243 00:11:15,633 --> 00:11:18,112 looked a whole lot better than the one that I was in. 244 00:11:20,632 --> 00:11:22,632 (CLOCK TICKS) 245 00:11:24,312 --> 00:11:27,051 DASSI: The feelings that I felt every single day 246 00:11:27,151 --> 00:11:30,551 as a child - fear and hunger. 247 00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:38,510 My mother was very abusive. 248 00:11:40,030 --> 00:11:44,149 There was a lot of physical, mental and emotional abuse. 249 00:11:45,909 --> 00:11:49,189 My father supported my mother in the abuse. 250 00:11:50,348 --> 00:11:53,788 And he wasn't a safe person himself. 251 00:11:58,787 --> 00:12:02,287 ELLY: I just can't understand 252 00:12:02,387 --> 00:12:06,227 how anyone could do what they did. 253 00:12:08,386 --> 00:12:13,426 That little me didn't deserve that kind of pain. 254 00:12:15,825 --> 00:12:19,305 School was a haven for us... 255 00:12:20,425 --> 00:12:23,744 ..in comparison to our home life. 256 00:12:26,024 --> 00:12:30,744 Malka Leifer chose vulnerable people from complex backgrounds. 257 00:12:33,183 --> 00:12:35,243 DASSI: I think my first interaction with her 258 00:12:35,343 --> 00:12:37,623 was when I was around 16. 259 00:12:38,903 --> 00:12:41,442 And she pulled me into her office and she said, 260 00:12:41,542 --> 00:12:44,162 "I know about the abuse at home." 261 00:12:44,262 --> 00:12:46,942 She said she wanted to support me. 262 00:12:48,661 --> 00:12:51,421 There was nothing I wanted to hear more in that moment. 263 00:12:56,700 --> 00:13:01,120 ELLY: Someone had given me a small amount of care, 264 00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:03,220 asked me about me. 265 00:13:06,099 --> 00:13:07,999 That casual conversation 266 00:13:08,099 --> 00:13:11,619 made me feel like a million dollars. 267 00:13:13,818 --> 00:13:15,678 NICOLE: For me, it was the connection. 268 00:13:15,778 --> 00:13:17,478 As a child, always looking for 269 00:13:17,578 --> 00:13:20,797 that kind of connection and attachment and never had that. 270 00:13:20,897 --> 00:13:23,137 I think that's what drew me in. 271 00:13:24,377 --> 00:13:27,197 ELLY: There started to be touch, 272 00:13:27,297 --> 00:13:29,596 a small touch, 273 00:13:29,696 --> 00:13:33,656 just a hand on a shoulder or a hand on the leg. 274 00:13:34,776 --> 00:13:37,156 NICOLE: She would put my hair behind my ear 275 00:13:37,256 --> 00:13:39,935 or keep her hand for a long time on my thigh. 276 00:13:41,295 --> 00:13:43,375 That's how it slowly escalated. 277 00:13:46,374 --> 00:13:49,034 ELLY: There was no reason not to trust her. 278 00:13:49,134 --> 00:13:51,514 DASSI: She's a leader in the community, 279 00:13:51,614 --> 00:13:53,614 equivalent to a rabbi. 280 00:13:55,093 --> 00:13:58,833 There was this trust that we wouldn't say anything, 281 00:13:58,933 --> 00:14:01,913 but at the same time we didn't know to say anything 282 00:14:02,013 --> 00:14:05,632 because we didn't know that it was wrong 283 00:14:05,732 --> 00:14:06,912 and she knew that. 284 00:14:07,012 --> 00:14:09,052 (PEOPLE CHATTER) 285 00:14:12,571 --> 00:14:15,831 DASSI: In 2008, I was in Israel, 286 00:14:15,931 --> 00:14:18,430 married to my ex-husband 287 00:14:18,530 --> 00:14:20,630 and I was trying to understand 288 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:23,430 why it felt so wrong what had happened with Malka Leifer 289 00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:26,110 and I was trying to understand why I was having thoughts 290 00:14:26,210 --> 00:14:28,909 I was having, the dreams I was having, 291 00:14:29,009 --> 00:14:31,009 the flashbacks I was having. 292 00:14:33,089 --> 00:14:36,668 CHANA: Dassi got married to the person her parents chose, 293 00:14:36,768 --> 00:14:38,308 pushed her into. 294 00:14:38,408 --> 00:14:41,228 She had her hands on a computer for the first time in her life. 295 00:14:41,328 --> 00:14:44,187 It was my first kind of foray 296 00:14:44,287 --> 00:14:46,947 into this world outside of my community. 297 00:14:47,047 --> 00:14:48,827 Landing up on these sexual websites 298 00:14:48,927 --> 00:14:50,907 that I didn't understand at all. 299 00:14:51,007 --> 00:14:53,386 I was at the time really struggling to get pregnant 300 00:14:53,486 --> 00:14:56,626 and I thought, "Well, God was making me infertile 301 00:14:56,726 --> 00:14:59,186 "because I was looking up stuff on the internet," 302 00:14:59,286 --> 00:15:00,705 and it was actually that 303 00:15:00,805 --> 00:15:03,025 that led me to go see Chana Rabinowitz. 304 00:15:03,125 --> 00:15:07,025 Dassi's describing and feeling 305 00:15:07,125 --> 00:15:09,664 that she was a bad, terrible person 306 00:15:09,764 --> 00:15:12,184 and that she needed to be punished. 307 00:15:12,284 --> 00:15:14,584 I just remember that slowly built up 308 00:15:14,684 --> 00:15:18,583 to ask her very quietly, "Somebody hurt you?" 309 00:15:18,683 --> 00:15:22,503 And I responded, "Yes." 310 00:15:22,603 --> 00:15:24,882 She said to me... 311 00:15:25,962 --> 00:15:27,422 .."You need to tell me who it is." 312 00:15:27,522 --> 00:15:30,182 And I said to her, "I can't. I can't do that." 313 00:15:30,282 --> 00:15:35,421 I mean, I had still such a huge amount of fear of Malka Leifer. 314 00:15:35,521 --> 00:15:37,821 I just remember her 315 00:15:37,921 --> 00:15:41,200 going into herself and whispering. 316 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,740 Hearing her reveal that it was Malka Leifer was a shock. 317 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,419 Leifer brought me in 318 00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,019 to do some work for the Adass Israel School 319 00:15:55,119 --> 00:15:57,119 while I lived in Australia. 320 00:15:58,118 --> 00:15:59,498 I told her to call Nicole 321 00:15:59,598 --> 00:16:01,338 and the next thing I remember is, you know, 322 00:16:01,438 --> 00:16:04,018 Nicole calling me up later that night and saying, 323 00:16:04,118 --> 00:16:06,337 "What did you say and what's gonna happen next?" 324 00:16:06,437 --> 00:16:09,337 And I remember just being utterly terrified. 325 00:16:09,437 --> 00:16:12,857 NICOLE: All I remember is telling Chana Rabinowitz, 326 00:16:12,957 --> 00:16:15,296 "It's true, because she also did it to me." 327 00:16:15,396 --> 00:16:17,896 And I had no idea what was going to unfold 328 00:16:17,996 --> 00:16:19,996 after I said those words. 329 00:16:20,836 --> 00:16:22,655 CHANA: A woman who works for the school 330 00:16:22,755 --> 00:16:24,375 spoke to her daughter 331 00:16:24,475 --> 00:16:27,895 who revealed to her that she had also been a victim. 332 00:16:27,995 --> 00:16:32,094 That woman then went to the rabbi in the community. 333 00:16:32,194 --> 00:16:34,974 That's when it opened up and they believed it, 334 00:16:35,074 --> 00:16:38,074 when it was more than a few accusations. 335 00:16:39,313 --> 00:16:44,053 Those allegations were then taken to the school board 336 00:16:44,153 --> 00:16:46,853 and the board met at a private home. 337 00:16:46,953 --> 00:16:48,292 At that meeting, 338 00:16:48,392 --> 00:16:50,812 Leifer was confronted with the allegations. 339 00:16:50,912 --> 00:16:52,772 She denied the allegations. 340 00:16:52,872 --> 00:16:54,692 The focus then became 341 00:16:54,792 --> 00:16:57,231 to get her out of the country as quickly as possible. 342 00:16:58,631 --> 00:17:00,171 And within four or five hours, 343 00:17:00,271 --> 00:17:02,931 she and some of their children had left the country, 344 00:17:03,031 --> 00:17:07,010 and that was facilitated by the connections 345 00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:08,570 of some of the board members. 346 00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:12,049 REPORTER: This is the Adass Israel Girls School 347 00:17:12,149 --> 00:17:13,609 in inner Melbourne. 348 00:17:13,709 --> 00:17:15,569 The Melbourne Adass community - 349 00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:17,769 it's very small, ultra-Orthodox, 350 00:17:17,869 --> 00:17:19,489 and is considered reclusive, 351 00:17:19,589 --> 00:17:21,688 even by the wider Jewish community. 352 00:17:21,788 --> 00:17:24,288 Today that anonymity was pierced 353 00:17:24,388 --> 00:17:25,928 when the 'Australian Jewish News' 354 00:17:26,028 --> 00:17:28,287 published reports that the female principal 355 00:17:28,387 --> 00:17:30,567 of the girls school, Malka Leifer, 356 00:17:30,667 --> 00:17:32,887 a mother of eight, had been stood down 357 00:17:32,987 --> 00:17:35,407 because of allegations of improper behaviour 358 00:17:35,507 --> 00:17:36,886 with her students. 359 00:17:36,986 --> 00:17:39,366 ASHLEY: The source was someone who knew the family 360 00:17:39,466 --> 00:17:41,246 and was a parent at the school. 361 00:17:41,346 --> 00:17:43,566 This guy was really emotional. 362 00:17:43,666 --> 00:17:45,445 He was in tears at one stage, 363 00:17:45,545 --> 00:17:47,485 and he was saying, "These girls, 364 00:17:47,585 --> 00:17:49,845 "their lives have been destroyed by this woman. 365 00:17:49,945 --> 00:17:51,725 "They won't be able to marry. 366 00:17:51,825 --> 00:17:54,364 "They'll be seen as unclean 367 00:17:54,464 --> 00:17:57,804 "and not worthy by the Adass community." 368 00:17:57,904 --> 00:17:59,764 TED: At the meeting of board members, 369 00:17:59,864 --> 00:18:01,843 their first instinct should have been, 370 00:18:01,943 --> 00:18:03,923 "We have to report this to police." 371 00:18:04,023 --> 00:18:06,283 Their first instinct instead was, 372 00:18:06,383 --> 00:18:09,043 "We have to get Leifer out of the country." 373 00:18:09,143 --> 00:18:10,562 Shove it under the carpet, 374 00:18:10,662 --> 00:18:13,642 send the problem somewhere else away from the community. 375 00:18:13,742 --> 00:18:15,242 That was the way that it was done. 376 00:18:15,342 --> 00:18:17,362 They wanted to protect their community. 377 00:18:17,462 --> 00:18:19,081 The president of the board 378 00:18:19,181 --> 00:18:22,121 is a very responsible, upstanding person 379 00:18:22,221 --> 00:18:25,840 whose life has been... (SCOFFS) ..so affected by this 380 00:18:25,940 --> 00:18:28,560 and he totally believed 381 00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:31,380 that they were doing the right thing for the community. 382 00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:34,839 WOMAN: If Leifer had have remained in the country 383 00:18:34,939 --> 00:18:37,599 and faced the music at that time 384 00:18:37,699 --> 00:18:39,919 that the allegations first came out, 385 00:18:40,019 --> 00:18:41,679 we could have had a different case. 386 00:18:41,779 --> 00:18:44,958 Potentially done and dusted, average two to three years. 387 00:18:45,058 --> 00:18:46,638 May have had more complainants come forward, 388 00:18:46,738 --> 00:18:48,318 if they felt safe enough to do so. 389 00:18:48,418 --> 00:18:49,678 That moment in time 390 00:18:49,778 --> 00:18:54,117 where they collectively chose to send her overseas 391 00:18:54,217 --> 00:18:57,117 instead of turning her in to the police 392 00:18:57,217 --> 00:19:00,396 or opening up an investigation 393 00:19:00,496 --> 00:19:04,736 defined the next 15 years of our life. 394 00:19:09,855 --> 00:19:12,395 NICOLE: She possibly left Israel to begin with 395 00:19:12,495 --> 00:19:14,275 to come to the other side of the world 396 00:19:14,375 --> 00:19:16,114 because she was fleeing the fact 397 00:19:16,214 --> 00:19:18,494 that she had abused in that country as well. 398 00:19:19,894 --> 00:19:22,554 WOMAN: We know that she allegedly molested 399 00:19:22,654 --> 00:19:25,313 at least one girl in the school in Bnei Brak 400 00:19:25,413 --> 00:19:27,873 and then we know she moved to Melbourne. 401 00:19:27,973 --> 00:19:29,973 (MAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 402 00:19:36,852 --> 00:19:38,852 (WOMAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 403 00:19:56,250 --> 00:19:58,249 (MAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 404 00:20:06,408 --> 00:20:09,268 They told her, "OK, you need to move. 405 00:20:09,368 --> 00:20:11,468 In the Haredi community, 406 00:20:11,568 --> 00:20:12,908 that's how it goes. 407 00:20:13,008 --> 00:20:14,867 If they move the abuser 408 00:20:14,967 --> 00:20:17,467 to another school or another city, 409 00:20:17,567 --> 00:20:21,047 they know it is gonna hurt another kid. 410 00:20:22,006 --> 00:20:26,066 I assume there is at least one, two or three people 411 00:20:26,166 --> 00:20:28,466 in Australia that knew. 412 00:20:28,566 --> 00:20:31,165 They're smart enough not to ask the question. 413 00:20:43,884 --> 00:20:45,664 DANIELLE: When the sisters first made their statements, 414 00:20:45,764 --> 00:20:48,263 they were so lengthy, there were so many incidents. 415 00:20:48,363 --> 00:20:51,183 All the girls did such an incredible job 416 00:20:51,283 --> 00:20:54,063 in providing their version of events and their story, 417 00:20:54,163 --> 00:20:55,982 especially to a stranger. 418 00:20:56,082 --> 00:20:59,902 DASSI: I sat down with Danielle in an interview room. 419 00:21:00,002 --> 00:21:03,181 I didn't know how to say some of the things I needed to say. 420 00:21:03,281 --> 00:21:06,421 But she was incredibly patient and kind 421 00:21:06,521 --> 00:21:11,140 and I felt understood and heard and believed. 422 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,220 NICOLE: When I gave my police statement in 2011, 423 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,220 everything seemed so simple and straightforward. 424 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,879 Papers to Canberra, go and pick her up from Israel. 425 00:21:21,199 --> 00:21:23,099 DANIELLE: No-one saw that it was gonna take so long 426 00:21:23,199 --> 00:21:24,139 to bring her back 427 00:21:24,239 --> 00:21:26,419 and the lengths that she went to 428 00:21:26,519 --> 00:21:28,418 to remain out of the country. 429 00:21:28,518 --> 00:21:32,978 I was disappointed that the system in Israel 430 00:21:33,078 --> 00:21:35,817 hadn't processed the extradition promptly, 431 00:21:35,917 --> 00:21:39,097 but Israel is a complicated place. 432 00:21:39,197 --> 00:21:41,097 Its politics is very complicated, 433 00:21:41,197 --> 00:21:45,276 particularly within the ultra-Orthodox communities. 434 00:21:47,036 --> 00:21:49,296 DASSI: In 2014, 435 00:21:49,396 --> 00:21:52,655 Elly and I decided to travel overseas. 436 00:21:52,755 --> 00:21:56,335 We were tourists exploring this new land in this new way, 437 00:21:56,435 --> 00:21:58,515 'cause we're both not religious at the time. 438 00:22:00,035 --> 00:22:03,054 By that time, I had divorced Josh. 439 00:22:03,154 --> 00:22:04,614 We had a brilliant holiday 440 00:22:04,714 --> 00:22:07,494 and I remember sitting on the beaches with Elly 441 00:22:07,594 --> 00:22:09,053 drinking a pina colada 442 00:22:09,153 --> 00:22:11,733 and suddenly hearing that Malka Leifer 443 00:22:11,833 --> 00:22:13,833 has been arrested in Israel. 444 00:22:16,073 --> 00:22:18,292 REPORTER: Six years after fleeing, 445 00:22:18,392 --> 00:22:20,332 the law caught up with Leifer. 446 00:22:20,432 --> 00:22:22,052 NEWSREADER: Today, authorities in Israel 447 00:22:22,152 --> 00:22:23,732 arrested Malka Leifer 448 00:22:23,832 --> 00:22:25,851 over the alleged sexual assault of students 449 00:22:25,951 --> 00:22:28,091 at a Victorian Jewish girls school. 450 00:22:28,191 --> 00:22:31,411 The mother of eight is wanted to face prosecution. 451 00:22:31,511 --> 00:22:32,811 NICOLE: It came so out of the blue. 452 00:22:32,911 --> 00:22:35,250 Whose desk did that paper land on that said, 453 00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:36,810 "OK, go and arrest her now"? 454 00:22:36,910 --> 00:22:38,910 I still don't even know that properly. 455 00:22:39,910 --> 00:22:42,729 She starts playing the system immediately. 456 00:22:42,829 --> 00:22:45,289 MAN: It was not easy from the beginning. 457 00:22:45,389 --> 00:22:49,449 The district court would not even detain her, 458 00:22:49,549 --> 00:22:50,928 and second, 459 00:22:51,028 --> 00:22:52,528 she had really good lawyers, 460 00:22:52,628 --> 00:22:54,568 very good lawyers. 461 00:22:54,668 --> 00:22:57,228 (MAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 462 00:23:05,907 --> 00:23:09,806 MATAN: Leifer was diagnosed by the district psychiatrist 463 00:23:09,906 --> 00:23:11,526 unfit to stand trial. 464 00:23:11,626 --> 00:23:16,805 She actually did not show up to most of the court hearings. 465 00:23:16,905 --> 00:23:19,925 The court didn't grant permission for her not to come. 466 00:23:20,025 --> 00:23:21,565 She just didn't come. 467 00:23:21,665 --> 00:23:23,964 MATAN: Each time, she was hospitalised 468 00:23:24,064 --> 00:23:25,884 a few days before the court hearings. 469 00:23:25,984 --> 00:23:29,044 She's not well the day before she arrives at court. 470 00:23:29,144 --> 00:23:31,043 Isn't that one plus one equals two? 471 00:23:31,143 --> 00:23:34,203 How could a judge, a senior judge, not see through that? 472 00:23:34,303 --> 00:23:35,843 DASSI: Nothing really changes, 473 00:23:35,943 --> 00:23:37,363 just doesn't turn up at court hearings. 474 00:23:37,463 --> 00:23:38,563 The court hearings can't go ahead 475 00:23:38,663 --> 00:23:39,762 because that's the law in Israel. 476 00:23:39,862 --> 00:23:42,082 AVITAL: We were at an impasse. 477 00:23:42,182 --> 00:23:43,922 It just kept on getting delayed. 478 00:23:44,022 --> 00:23:45,722 REPORTER: Malka Leifer has managed 479 00:23:45,822 --> 00:23:47,761 to avoid seven court hearings, 480 00:23:47,861 --> 00:23:50,401 with her lawyers arguing that she's unwell, 481 00:23:50,501 --> 00:23:53,161 suffering panic attacks and depression 482 00:23:53,261 --> 00:23:55,681 whenever a court date nears. 483 00:23:55,781 --> 00:23:57,960 -(CHILDREN EXCLAIM) -(BIRDS TWITTER) 484 00:23:58,060 --> 00:24:00,100 (CHURCH BELL TOLLS) 485 00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:05,399 WOMAN: There was one of the Australian sisters 486 00:24:05,499 --> 00:24:07,879 who lived here in Manchester. 487 00:24:07,979 --> 00:24:10,439 She was visited and really pressured 488 00:24:10,539 --> 00:24:15,538 into somehow putting a stop to this case going forward. 489 00:24:16,538 --> 00:24:17,678 BEN: Family's all in Melbourne 490 00:24:17,778 --> 00:24:20,318 and my sister Dalia was in Manchester. 491 00:24:20,418 --> 00:24:24,577 Dalia was a principal of an ultra-religious school. 492 00:24:25,577 --> 00:24:27,277 Highly religious observant woman, 493 00:24:27,377 --> 00:24:29,876 very well respected and senior in her community. 494 00:24:29,976 --> 00:24:32,316 A pair of fixers 495 00:24:32,416 --> 00:24:34,236 came from Israel 496 00:24:34,336 --> 00:24:38,115 solely to harass and threaten Dalia and her family. 497 00:24:38,215 --> 00:24:41,755 NICOLE: They would basically make her life miserable. 498 00:24:41,855 --> 00:24:44,395 They threatened her with losing her job, 499 00:24:44,495 --> 00:24:46,154 marriage prospects for her children, 500 00:24:46,254 --> 00:24:47,914 her name in the community, 501 00:24:48,014 --> 00:24:51,654 if Dalia does not tell us to drop the case. 502 00:24:53,254 --> 00:24:55,953 YEHUDIS: If you're a boy and you grow up in the Haredi community 503 00:24:56,053 --> 00:24:58,073 and you're not the type 504 00:24:58,173 --> 00:25:00,913 who's gonna become a respected rabbi, 505 00:25:01,013 --> 00:25:03,232 there's really, really limited options, 506 00:25:03,332 --> 00:25:07,432 but one of those options for prestige is becoming a fixer. 507 00:25:07,532 --> 00:25:11,631 SHANA: Not completely unlike the political fixers. 508 00:25:11,731 --> 00:25:15,031 It's a combination of PR and bullying. 509 00:25:15,131 --> 00:25:17,071 For a long time, people blamed the rabbis 510 00:25:17,171 --> 00:25:18,590 that the issue of sexual abuse 511 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:20,830 isn't being resolved because of the rabbis, 512 00:25:20,930 --> 00:25:23,030 but I think it's much more about these fixers. 513 00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:26,150 They have a tremendous amount of power. 514 00:25:26,250 --> 00:25:28,549 They spread misinformation campaigns 515 00:25:28,649 --> 00:25:31,549 in order to run the victims out of town 516 00:25:31,649 --> 00:25:33,709 or back them into a corner usually 517 00:25:33,809 --> 00:25:35,808 so that they will drop the case. 518 00:25:36,608 --> 00:25:38,628 NICOLE: Even though it was stressing her out, 519 00:25:38,728 --> 00:25:40,708 she was not telling me, 520 00:25:40,808 --> 00:25:43,427 "Stop what you're doing because this is impacting me," 521 00:25:43,527 --> 00:25:45,947 but I could see it was really, really, really stressing her. 522 00:25:46,047 --> 00:25:48,587 DASSI: It was during that same period of time 523 00:25:48,687 --> 00:25:52,666 that Dalia started suffering with chest pains 524 00:25:52,766 --> 00:25:54,626 for the first time in her life 525 00:25:54,726 --> 00:25:57,306 and ended up in hospital. 526 00:25:57,406 --> 00:25:59,565 And then a week or two later, she passed away. 527 00:26:01,405 --> 00:26:04,225 YEHUDIS: That story is held as kind of a cautionary tale. 528 00:26:04,325 --> 00:26:07,345 "Look what happened to the Australian sisters' sister." 529 00:26:07,445 --> 00:26:09,784 You could have that knock on your door 530 00:26:09,884 --> 00:26:14,124 and nobody's heart can withstand that type of pressure. 531 00:26:19,323 --> 00:26:21,263 REPORTER: For almost two years now, 532 00:26:21,363 --> 00:26:26,462 Malka Leifer has managed to evade extradition proceedings. 533 00:26:26,562 --> 00:26:28,302 Finally, in 2016, 534 00:26:28,402 --> 00:26:32,821 a judge decides that she is actually mentally unwell 535 00:26:32,921 --> 00:26:34,581 and she is not gonna face justice. 536 00:26:34,681 --> 00:26:36,421 REPORTER: Overnight, an Israeli judge 537 00:26:36,521 --> 00:26:39,301 ruled she was mentally unfit to face extradition 538 00:26:39,401 --> 00:26:41,100 and lifted a home detention order 539 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,300 that had been in place since 2014. 540 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,560 Malka Leifer is now free in Israel. 541 00:26:50,639 --> 00:26:52,819 REPORTER 2: Malka Leifer has been holed up 542 00:26:52,919 --> 00:26:55,739 in an ultra-Orthodox settlement in the West Bank 543 00:26:55,839 --> 00:26:58,698 hiding from her dark past. 544 00:26:58,798 --> 00:27:01,618 NICOLE: Even after she fled, 545 00:27:01,718 --> 00:27:04,498 there were allegations that she had abused in Immanuel 546 00:27:04,598 --> 00:27:06,597 during those years as well. 547 00:27:07,557 --> 00:27:09,897 REPORTER 2: Daniel and his daughter had lived in Immanuel 548 00:27:09,997 --> 00:27:11,337 for several years 549 00:27:11,437 --> 00:27:15,616 when, in 2016, the Leifer family moved to town. 550 00:27:15,716 --> 00:27:18,376 Leifer was by that stage on the run. 551 00:27:18,476 --> 00:27:22,495 Daniel says authorities in Immanuel turned a blind eye 552 00:27:22,595 --> 00:27:24,575 and alleges Leifer 553 00:27:24,675 --> 00:27:27,775 was soon teaching and abusing his daughter. 554 00:27:27,875 --> 00:27:29,875 (MAN SPEAKS ENGLISH) 555 00:27:35,354 --> 00:27:38,693 MAN: This was someone that's actively pursuing little girls, 556 00:27:38,793 --> 00:27:40,793 actively grooming them. 557 00:27:43,033 --> 00:27:45,673 (WOMAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 558 00:28:12,469 --> 00:28:14,729 (PHONE RINGS) 559 00:28:14,829 --> 00:28:17,189 (CONVERSATION IN HEBREW) 560 00:28:56,264 --> 00:28:58,264 (DOG BARKS) 561 00:28:59,784 --> 00:29:03,843 SHANA: The community in Immanuel is extremely ultra-Orthodox. 562 00:29:03,943 --> 00:29:05,403 In some ways, even more insular 563 00:29:05,503 --> 00:29:07,443 than some other ultra-Orthodox communities 564 00:29:07,543 --> 00:29:11,082 because its geographical location, it's isolated. 565 00:29:11,182 --> 00:29:13,642 A very large percentage of them 566 00:29:13,742 --> 00:29:15,202 definitely do not have internet. 567 00:29:15,302 --> 00:29:17,901 Large portions of the community live under the poverty line. 568 00:29:19,381 --> 00:29:22,881 MAN: I do believe that the ultra-Orthodox community 569 00:29:22,981 --> 00:29:24,841 breed child sexual abuse. 570 00:29:24,941 --> 00:29:26,680 Why is that? 571 00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:28,480 There is no sex education. 572 00:29:28,580 --> 00:29:32,920 ELLY: There was no sexual education in our school, 573 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:34,959 in our community, at home. 574 00:29:35,059 --> 00:29:39,879 Kids are not even taught the names of genitalia, 575 00:29:39,979 --> 00:29:41,919 the words to use. 576 00:29:42,019 --> 00:29:44,838 I didn't hear the word 'vagina' 577 00:29:44,938 --> 00:29:47,718 until I had bridal lessons before I got married. 578 00:29:47,818 --> 00:29:49,918 BEN: It was just such a taboo subject. 579 00:29:50,018 --> 00:29:51,437 One would never speak about it 580 00:29:51,537 --> 00:29:54,037 and one would pretend that it just doesn't exist. 581 00:29:54,137 --> 00:29:57,917 NICOLE: Sexual abuse is completely compartmentalised, 582 00:29:58,017 --> 00:30:00,636 stigmatised and packed away. 583 00:30:00,736 --> 00:30:04,116 So when someone sees an abuser, 584 00:30:04,216 --> 00:30:06,915 they don't see an abuser and the impact on the victims. 585 00:30:07,015 --> 00:30:09,435 They see a person who's in distress, 586 00:30:09,535 --> 00:30:11,855 who needs help, who needs to be saved. 587 00:30:14,975 --> 00:30:16,974 (MAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 588 00:30:27,533 --> 00:30:30,193 You have therapists who operate within the community 589 00:30:30,293 --> 00:30:33,112 who will purport themselves to be specialists 590 00:30:33,212 --> 00:30:34,672 when they've read a couple of books. 591 00:30:34,772 --> 00:30:37,032 There'll be a specific person 592 00:30:37,132 --> 00:30:40,031 whose specialism is managing the sex offenders 593 00:30:40,131 --> 00:30:41,551 and they will say, "Absolutely, 594 00:30:41,651 --> 00:30:43,231 "we'll make sure he goes for therapy. 595 00:30:43,331 --> 00:30:46,951 "We'll make sure that he's watched in the synagogue 596 00:30:47,051 --> 00:30:49,410 "or we'll make sure that she's not allowed to babysit." 597 00:30:50,850 --> 00:30:56,130 Malka Leifer is "babysitter" for two family. 598 00:30:57,369 --> 00:30:58,909 When I see this, 599 00:30:59,009 --> 00:31:00,829 I call this family 600 00:31:00,929 --> 00:31:05,108 and say, "You know this Malka Leifer?" 601 00:31:05,208 --> 00:31:06,388 "No." 602 00:31:06,488 --> 00:31:08,988 "You hear this problem with girls?" 603 00:31:09,088 --> 00:31:09,948 "No." 604 00:31:10,048 --> 00:31:12,048 (EZRA SPEAKS HEBREW) 605 00:31:33,365 --> 00:31:35,405 (TRAM BELL DINGS) 606 00:31:36,685 --> 00:31:38,064 DASSI: Ben. Hello. 607 00:31:38,164 --> 00:31:39,864 -BEN: Hello. -ELLY: Hey, Ben. 608 00:31:39,964 --> 00:31:41,664 -How's it going? -Thanks for coming, Ben. 609 00:31:41,764 --> 00:31:43,184 -Really nice to see you. -Pleasure. 610 00:31:43,284 --> 00:31:44,704 Can we, like, forget about trial for a second 611 00:31:44,804 --> 00:31:45,943 and, like, just eat dinner? 612 00:31:46,043 --> 00:31:48,223 -I've really forgotten. -(ALL LAUGH) 613 00:31:48,323 --> 00:31:50,063 Place mats, place mats, place mats. 614 00:31:50,163 --> 00:31:51,983 We don't wanna get the table dirty. 615 00:31:52,083 --> 00:31:55,102 Thank you so much, Ben. This is really of generous of you. 616 00:31:55,202 --> 00:31:57,062 -Are you turning 30 this year? -Yes. 617 00:31:57,162 --> 00:31:58,422 NICOLE: That's gonna be post-trial, 618 00:31:58,522 --> 00:32:00,262 so we can really have a nice celebration. 619 00:32:00,362 --> 00:32:01,822 You're the youngest, our baby brother. 620 00:32:01,922 --> 00:32:04,141 DASSI: The last 30 in the family until all our kids. 621 00:32:04,241 --> 00:32:06,021 ELLY: Do you want to have a dirty 30? 622 00:32:06,121 --> 00:32:08,021 (ALL LAUGH) 623 00:32:08,121 --> 00:32:11,020 All of my sisters have this beautiful loving energy. 624 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,220 Every one of them, though, loves differently. 625 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,740 And when I say "loves differently", 626 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,340 they all love unconditionally the same, 627 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,139 but they all express it in their own way. 628 00:32:19,239 --> 00:32:21,339 And Nechama's way of expressing that 629 00:32:21,439 --> 00:32:23,979 is being able to listen to you, 630 00:32:24,079 --> 00:32:26,859 be a soundboard, make sure that you're alright. 631 00:32:26,959 --> 00:32:28,498 You won the first, I won the second 632 00:32:28,598 --> 00:32:29,938 'cause I haven't won in ages. 633 00:32:30,038 --> 00:32:31,538 BEN: Anyways, guys, we are on. 634 00:32:31,638 --> 00:32:33,178 NICOLE: No, no. You... 635 00:32:33,278 --> 00:32:35,497 BEN: Dassi likes to banter, great debates, 636 00:32:35,597 --> 00:32:38,377 read books and chill, nature. 637 00:32:38,477 --> 00:32:40,657 -Els. -Yeah, this is very frustrating. 638 00:32:40,757 --> 00:32:42,217 BEN: What's your thoughts about putting something down? 639 00:32:42,317 --> 00:32:43,257 I'm trying. 640 00:32:43,357 --> 00:32:44,976 BEN: And Elly's the youngest sister. 641 00:32:45,076 --> 00:32:48,416 Just affection, deep heart, loving. 642 00:32:48,516 --> 00:32:50,416 Bubbling with all those good energies. 643 00:32:50,516 --> 00:32:54,575 (ALL EXCLAIM) 644 00:32:54,675 --> 00:32:56,175 -ELLY: Oh. -DASSI: OK. 645 00:32:56,275 --> 00:32:58,695 Ben, I know we're not gonna talk trial but trial started today. 646 00:32:58,795 --> 00:33:00,454 You're gonna be in court with Chams, 647 00:33:00,554 --> 00:33:02,694 so you might wanna prepare yourself mentally. 648 00:33:02,794 --> 00:33:03,854 You're gonna be there on Friday, 649 00:33:03,954 --> 00:33:05,174 so that's when Ian cross-examines me, 650 00:33:05,274 --> 00:33:06,534 so you're gonna hear, like... 651 00:33:06,634 --> 00:33:08,254 DASSI: All the insinuations of that, 652 00:33:08,354 --> 00:33:10,213 "She's lying, she's making it up." 653 00:33:10,313 --> 00:33:11,933 Am I mentally prepared for it? No. 654 00:33:12,033 --> 00:33:14,233 But I support you guys and always will. 655 00:33:15,673 --> 00:33:17,972 It is gonna be brutal for all of us and you're gonna... 656 00:33:18,072 --> 00:33:19,372 Being our sibling, you're gonna feel that 657 00:33:19,472 --> 00:33:21,372 because you're close to us and you love us. 658 00:33:21,472 --> 00:33:23,612 And it's just pain to be able to also see you 659 00:33:23,712 --> 00:33:25,411 go through that turmoil and to see you 660 00:33:25,511 --> 00:33:26,931 go through all the anguish. 661 00:33:27,031 --> 00:33:29,651 At the same time, it's also good to be able to finally 662 00:33:29,751 --> 00:33:31,531 be able to say, "OK, we're here," 663 00:33:31,631 --> 00:33:34,130 and to uncover the truth and to let the world decide. 664 00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:36,230 NICOLE: Yeah. 665 00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:41,250 BEN: My sisters are such incredibly good people. 666 00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:43,709 How we grew up, you never felt safe. 667 00:33:46,909 --> 00:33:49,209 There was times that we were beaten, 668 00:33:49,309 --> 00:33:52,148 times that we were not given food. 669 00:33:55,348 --> 00:33:58,247 ELLY: Our mother withheld food from us. 670 00:33:58,347 --> 00:34:01,427 Most nights we didn't have dinner. 671 00:34:03,347 --> 00:34:07,426 We often did have to steal from other kids' lunchboxes. 672 00:34:08,746 --> 00:34:11,166 I feel awful even saying that now, 673 00:34:11,266 --> 00:34:13,126 but I was hungry at school. 674 00:34:13,226 --> 00:34:14,605 I was hungry at home. 675 00:34:14,705 --> 00:34:18,145 I was hungry all the time. 676 00:34:21,185 --> 00:34:23,524 BEN: My sisters definitely helped a lot. 677 00:34:23,624 --> 00:34:25,284 The moments that I really recall 678 00:34:25,384 --> 00:34:26,564 was when Nicole was already married 679 00:34:26,664 --> 00:34:28,044 and I was still at home. 680 00:34:28,144 --> 00:34:30,244 I was the only one at home 681 00:34:30,344 --> 00:34:32,603 and I would go over to Nicole's house. 682 00:34:32,703 --> 00:34:36,003 She would give me food and we would spend time together. 683 00:34:36,103 --> 00:34:38,483 It was a very strong connection. 684 00:34:38,583 --> 00:34:40,802 -DASSI: Thanks for coming, Ben. -BEN: I love you guys. 685 00:34:40,902 --> 00:34:42,902 Dassi, give me a hug. 686 00:34:49,421 --> 00:34:51,121 So, about eight months ago, 687 00:34:51,221 --> 00:34:52,601 I started a campaign 688 00:34:52,701 --> 00:34:54,201 to bring awareness to the fact that 689 00:34:54,301 --> 00:34:56,840 she continues to avoid extradition courts in Israel 690 00:34:56,940 --> 00:35:00,080 and is living a completely unrestricted life. 691 00:35:00,180 --> 00:35:02,040 So in 2017, 692 00:35:02,140 --> 00:35:04,639 I started campaigning to bring Leifer back. 693 00:35:04,739 --> 00:35:08,359 ELLY: Once we made the decision to go public 694 00:35:08,459 --> 00:35:11,159 and for the three of us to put our face to the campaign, 695 00:35:11,259 --> 00:35:13,838 it was all just, like, go, go from there. 696 00:35:13,938 --> 00:35:15,638 DASSI: And the campaign took off, 697 00:35:15,738 --> 00:35:18,238 and Elly, Nicole and I decided to travel to Israel. 698 00:35:18,338 --> 00:35:20,038 -Nechama. Yes. -Nechama. 699 00:35:20,138 --> 00:35:21,957 NICOLE: We just knew that we needed to talk to anyone 700 00:35:22,057 --> 00:35:23,477 and everyone that would listen to us. 701 00:35:23,577 --> 00:35:25,877 DASSI: This case has been in the courts for a couple of years 702 00:35:25,977 --> 00:35:27,757 and there's been absolutely no movement. 703 00:35:27,857 --> 00:35:29,676 I still have nightmares and flashbacks. 704 00:35:29,776 --> 00:35:32,116 I have nightmares that she's gonna come into my room. 705 00:35:32,216 --> 00:35:35,556 I have issues with my sexual relationships with other people. 706 00:35:35,656 --> 00:35:39,915 That bond and that ability to keep pushing each other 707 00:35:40,015 --> 00:35:43,595 really helped us to get through those times. 708 00:35:43,695 --> 00:35:47,234 DASSI: Having to continue to campaign for justice 709 00:35:47,334 --> 00:35:50,994 and share our story over and over and over again, 710 00:35:51,094 --> 00:35:53,313 I was literally living in survival space. 711 00:35:53,413 --> 00:35:55,033 REPORTER: It's been two years 712 00:35:55,133 --> 00:35:57,353 since Malka Leifer last appeared in court. 713 00:35:57,453 --> 00:35:59,233 Her lawyers were there in person 714 00:35:59,333 --> 00:36:01,472 and they claim two of her alleged victims 715 00:36:01,572 --> 00:36:03,832 may have consented to what happened. 716 00:36:03,932 --> 00:36:07,152 I ended up in a psych ward about four times in those years 717 00:36:07,252 --> 00:36:09,392 due to the stress of the campaign. 718 00:36:09,492 --> 00:36:12,511 Well, this is a case that is fast making a mockery 719 00:36:12,611 --> 00:36:14,351 out of Israel's legal system. 720 00:36:14,451 --> 00:36:16,191 REPORTER 2: 44 court hearings so far. 721 00:36:16,291 --> 00:36:18,350 REPORTER: ..been to court 45 times. 722 00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:20,630 REPORTER 3: The case has been adjourned until 21 September. 723 00:36:20,730 --> 00:36:21,990 REPORTER 4: Some pretty extraordinary 724 00:36:22,090 --> 00:36:23,230 legal gymnastics... 725 00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:24,430 REPORTER: ..adjourned until March 726 00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:26,389 so that more psychiatrists 727 00:36:26,489 --> 00:36:28,189 can be called on to give evidence. 728 00:36:28,289 --> 00:36:31,589 NEWSREADER: The ongoing fight to extradite Malka Leifer, 729 00:36:31,689 --> 00:36:33,629 straining relations between the two countries. 730 00:36:33,729 --> 00:36:35,668 MAN: Point of contention here between Australia and Israel... 731 00:36:35,768 --> 00:36:37,008 NEWSREADER: The Prime Minister says the government 732 00:36:37,088 --> 00:36:39,948 will be unswerving in pursuing justice. 733 00:36:40,048 --> 00:36:42,388 MALCOLM: I can't think of another extradition case 734 00:36:42,488 --> 00:36:43,787 quite like this. 735 00:36:43,887 --> 00:36:47,587 This was a matter of enormous importance to us. 736 00:36:47,687 --> 00:36:50,387 50 hearings, 30 psychiatrists, 737 00:36:50,487 --> 00:36:52,426 a complete frolic from the judge 738 00:36:52,526 --> 00:36:54,426 and a farce of a process. 739 00:36:54,526 --> 00:36:57,826 Probably after 10 hearings, I'm thinking, 740 00:36:57,926 --> 00:36:59,785 "I don't understand this." 741 00:36:59,885 --> 00:37:01,945 (KEYBOARD CLICKS) 742 00:37:02,045 --> 00:37:05,065 TED: We need Malka Leifer extradited. 743 00:37:05,165 --> 00:37:07,504 The indifference that is being displayed 744 00:37:07,604 --> 00:37:10,384 by the Israeli judicial system 745 00:37:10,484 --> 00:37:13,944 is really child abuse in its own right. 746 00:37:14,044 --> 00:37:15,783 -(SOMBRE MUSIC) -DASSI: Wow. 747 00:37:15,883 --> 00:37:17,703 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 748 00:37:17,803 --> 00:37:19,803 NICOLE: There was a bunch of messages on that. 749 00:37:20,483 --> 00:37:22,503 DASSI: OK. Yeah. 750 00:37:22,603 --> 00:37:24,582 TED: They've all gone up? 751 00:37:24,682 --> 00:37:26,662 People have come out here to support. 752 00:37:26,762 --> 00:37:28,762 It's just incredible. 753 00:37:30,002 --> 00:37:32,981 It's triggering, but this is the visible sign 754 00:37:33,081 --> 00:37:34,781 for those that can't come forward 755 00:37:34,881 --> 00:37:38,341 to know that people understand why they can't come forward, 756 00:37:38,441 --> 00:37:40,441 but they're there for them anyway. 757 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:44,720 It's making me emotional. 758 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,779 TED: When abuse becomes normal, 759 00:37:48,879 --> 00:37:52,419 speaking up about being abused becomes abnormal. 760 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:56,978 So it's a self-reinforcing defect in a community. 761 00:37:57,078 --> 00:37:59,178 DASSI: But when I started the campaign, 762 00:37:59,278 --> 00:38:00,858 I went to Ted Baillieu. 763 00:38:00,958 --> 00:38:02,218 And he said to me, 764 00:38:02,318 --> 00:38:04,858 "Dassi, if I can be of any assistance, 765 00:38:04,958 --> 00:38:06,817 "if there's anywhere you need me to be, 766 00:38:06,917 --> 00:38:09,297 "I will turn up and I will be there for you." 767 00:38:09,397 --> 00:38:11,097 Thanks for coming. 768 00:38:11,197 --> 00:38:14,496 And anytime I asked him to be anywhere, he would be there. 769 00:38:14,596 --> 00:38:16,936 TED: The school's still got stuff to answer for. 770 00:38:17,036 --> 00:38:18,576 But the fact that they didn't stop this, 771 00:38:18,676 --> 00:38:20,496 that's already one step forward. 772 00:38:20,596 --> 00:38:21,895 -TED: Yeah. -NICOLE: Yep. 773 00:38:21,995 --> 00:38:24,895 TED: Dassi sued the school and a civil case followed. 774 00:38:24,995 --> 00:38:28,735 Was overseen by now former Supreme Court Judge Jack Rush, 775 00:38:28,835 --> 00:38:33,134 and he presented an incredibly damning report, 776 00:38:33,234 --> 00:38:35,014 damning of Leifer, 777 00:38:35,114 --> 00:38:36,614 damning of the school board 778 00:38:36,714 --> 00:38:39,953 and awarded substantial damages. 779 00:38:41,153 --> 00:38:43,533 We do know from the civil case 780 00:38:43,633 --> 00:38:46,772 that previous allegations had been raised 781 00:38:46,872 --> 00:38:49,172 when Dassi's allegations were raised. 782 00:38:49,272 --> 00:38:52,212 The board had asked to meet Dassi 783 00:38:52,312 --> 00:38:54,372 because she'd sought an apology from them. 784 00:38:54,472 --> 00:38:56,451 And then the school board messaged me and said, 785 00:38:56,551 --> 00:38:59,131 "Who will you be bringing along as your support person?" 786 00:38:59,231 --> 00:39:02,611 And I said, "Just Ted Baillieu, the former premier of Victoria." 787 00:39:02,711 --> 00:39:04,290 First thing I said, 788 00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:07,090 "Excuse me, but if you don't mind, 789 00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:09,810 "I'm going to record this meeting," 790 00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:12,409 and I put my phone down and put it on record. 791 00:39:12,509 --> 00:39:14,509 -(PHONE PIPS) -DASSI: 792 00:39:45,345 --> 00:39:47,345 TED: 793 00:39:52,864 --> 00:39:54,864 ABE: 794 00:39:56,424 --> 00:39:58,364 They prioritised the welfare 795 00:39:58,464 --> 00:40:00,643 of their relationship with their insurer, 796 00:40:00,743 --> 00:40:03,403 before the welfare of the kids. 797 00:40:03,503 --> 00:40:05,503 DASSI: 798 00:40:09,222 --> 00:40:11,222 ABE: 799 00:40:21,581 --> 00:40:23,581 DASSI: 800 00:40:23,981 --> 00:40:25,980 TED: 801 00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:28,620 ABE: 802 00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:32,440 They wanted to praise themselves 803 00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:34,639 because they had stayed silent. 804 00:40:34,739 --> 00:40:35,999 And to my understanding, 805 00:40:36,099 --> 00:40:38,239 despite all the promises in that meeting, 806 00:40:38,339 --> 00:40:41,379 the apologies that Dassi sought were never made. 807 00:40:47,218 --> 00:40:49,438 (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK RAPIDLY) 808 00:40:49,538 --> 00:40:52,477 DASSI: We feel frustrated that this has taken so long. 809 00:40:52,577 --> 00:40:54,157 It's important for us to be here, 810 00:40:54,257 --> 00:40:55,477 for everyone to see that 811 00:40:55,577 --> 00:40:57,357 there are victims waiting every day for this to end. 812 00:40:57,457 --> 00:41:00,996 MATAN: Thinking about the moment I would have to face them 813 00:41:01,096 --> 00:41:02,636 and tell them it ended, 814 00:41:02,736 --> 00:41:04,356 "There's nothing more we can do 815 00:41:04,456 --> 00:41:07,275 "in order to extradite Malka Leifer to Australia," 816 00:41:07,375 --> 00:41:09,735 I was very afraid of this moment. 817 00:41:11,175 --> 00:41:12,555 (GALLERY HUBBUB) 818 00:41:12,655 --> 00:41:14,595 DASSI: We were stuck with Malka Leifer 819 00:41:14,695 --> 00:41:18,274 faking her mental illness and getting away with it. 820 00:41:18,374 --> 00:41:21,754 And we met Shana and we said to her, 821 00:41:21,854 --> 00:41:23,993 "We need to have proof of Malka Leifer 822 00:41:24,093 --> 00:41:27,633 "living her life that we can take to the Israeli police." 823 00:41:27,733 --> 00:41:29,353 SHANA: That was really the only thing 824 00:41:29,453 --> 00:41:31,313 that would really make a difference in this case, 825 00:41:31,413 --> 00:41:34,032 was bringing proof that she was living a normal life. 826 00:41:34,132 --> 00:41:37,512 And I just remember being, like, "I think we could do that." 827 00:41:37,612 --> 00:41:38,872 (LAUGHS) "That's something 828 00:41:38,972 --> 00:41:40,591 "we actually could probably help you with." 829 00:41:40,691 --> 00:41:43,151 DASSI: She had spoken to Meyer Seewald, 830 00:41:43,251 --> 00:41:46,711 who was her partner at JCW, Jewish Community Watch, 831 00:41:46,811 --> 00:41:49,430 an advocacy group for sexual abuse survivors. 832 00:41:49,530 --> 00:41:52,670 There's definitely a risk of immediate harm. 833 00:41:52,770 --> 00:41:55,510 DASSI: And they had agreed to pay for a private investigator 834 00:41:55,610 --> 00:41:58,549 to follow Malka Leifer for 10 days. 835 00:41:58,649 --> 00:42:00,429 "Dear victims of Malka Leifer, 836 00:42:00,529 --> 00:42:03,589 "I'm sorry for the pain and the suffering that you went through. 837 00:42:03,689 --> 00:42:05,788 "I'm sorry for the revictimisation 838 00:42:05,888 --> 00:42:08,228 "that happened to you when people in the community 839 00:42:08,328 --> 00:42:10,068 "helped her and not you. 840 00:42:10,168 --> 00:42:12,228 "I want you to know that my mission 841 00:42:12,328 --> 00:42:13,587 "is to bring Leifer back." 842 00:42:13,687 --> 00:42:15,947 It's been years and basically no-one has done shit. 843 00:42:16,047 --> 00:42:19,127 And we have connections to Israel. Let's try to use them. 844 00:42:20,087 --> 00:42:23,306 MAN: Shana from Jewish Community Watch came to me. 845 00:42:23,406 --> 00:42:27,986 She said, "Listen, they have a medical statement 846 00:42:28,086 --> 00:42:30,105 "that said that she can't do anything." 847 00:42:30,205 --> 00:42:32,825 What was described is that she was so dysfunctional 848 00:42:32,925 --> 00:42:34,545 that she could barely stand. 849 00:42:34,645 --> 00:42:38,324 The psychiatrist described her like a sack of potatoes. 850 00:42:44,884 --> 00:42:47,803 TZAFIR: She talk all day on the phone. 851 00:42:49,603 --> 00:42:51,603 Talking and talking and talking. 852 00:42:54,162 --> 00:42:58,582 Sunday, she went down from her apartment 853 00:42:58,682 --> 00:43:02,082 to the bus stop with all her kids. 854 00:43:03,521 --> 00:43:07,081 She was talking to them, laughing with them. 855 00:43:08,921 --> 00:43:11,260 She's strong, 856 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,680 taking all her own grocery herself. 857 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,679 No-one help her. 858 00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:23,779 (PEOPLE CONVERSE IN HEBREW) 859 00:43:23,879 --> 00:43:25,879 (MALKA AND SHOPKEEPER CONVERSE IN HEBREW) 860 00:43:36,077 --> 00:43:38,417 TZAFIR: After three weeks, 861 00:43:38,517 --> 00:43:40,177 we take all the videos 862 00:43:40,277 --> 00:43:42,437 and give them to the police. 863 00:43:43,596 --> 00:43:45,576 I sat with them for two days 864 00:43:45,676 --> 00:43:48,296 to explain what we're seeing. 865 00:43:48,396 --> 00:43:51,536 (LEIFER SPEAKS INAUDIBLY) 866 00:43:51,636 --> 00:43:53,215 A simple private investigator 867 00:43:53,315 --> 00:43:54,775 for five days following her 868 00:43:54,875 --> 00:43:56,375 and we're able to get all the proof 869 00:43:56,475 --> 00:43:58,475 and no-one else could have gotten this proof before? 870 00:44:03,834 --> 00:44:06,194 -(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK) -(PEOPLE CHATTER) 871 00:44:12,873 --> 00:44:16,253 MATAN: Maybe I was very optimistic, 872 00:44:16,353 --> 00:44:18,172 but I believed that this is going to be 873 00:44:18,272 --> 00:44:20,292 a rather short situation 874 00:44:20,392 --> 00:44:21,772 in which we come to court. 875 00:44:21,872 --> 00:44:24,811 We say, "This woman lied. She was faking her illness. 876 00:44:24,911 --> 00:44:28,171 "Here are the movies." And everything solved. 877 00:44:28,271 --> 00:44:30,751 And it just didn't work that way. 878 00:44:32,031 --> 00:44:34,030 (YEHUDA SPEAKS HEBREW) 879 00:44:44,709 --> 00:44:46,569 Lawyers for Malka Leifer argue 880 00:44:46,669 --> 00:44:49,089 she's mentally unfit to face a trial, 881 00:44:49,189 --> 00:44:52,328 despite an undercover police sting revealing otherwise. 882 00:44:52,428 --> 00:44:56,048 Malka Leifer has been in a high-security prison here 883 00:44:56,148 --> 00:44:57,607 for more than a year. 884 00:44:57,707 --> 00:45:00,647 NEWSREADER: 10 years have passed with no end in sight. 885 00:45:00,747 --> 00:45:02,287 NICOLE: We were fighting against something 886 00:45:02,387 --> 00:45:04,407 that was bigger than it should be. 887 00:45:04,507 --> 00:45:06,486 Obviously she's being protected by her community 888 00:45:06,586 --> 00:45:08,606 but not just that, it's more than that. 889 00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:09,886 There were people in Israel 890 00:45:09,986 --> 00:45:12,566 who definitely did not want her extradited. 891 00:45:12,666 --> 00:45:16,485 This lady's gotten away for years. How? 892 00:45:16,585 --> 00:45:18,005 I'll try to speak in English 893 00:45:18,105 --> 00:45:20,445 because I was a dropout in high school. 894 00:45:20,545 --> 00:45:22,085 That's why I became a minister. 895 00:45:22,185 --> 00:45:23,684 (LAUGHTER) 896 00:45:23,784 --> 00:45:27,444 For us in Israel, the main story was not Malka Leifer. 897 00:45:27,544 --> 00:45:30,044 The main story was Yaakov Litzman. 898 00:45:30,144 --> 00:45:31,643 Israeli police have recommended 899 00:45:31,743 --> 00:45:32,723 a senior minister 900 00:45:32,823 --> 00:45:34,643 be charged for allegedly interfering 901 00:45:34,743 --> 00:45:36,563 in a Melbourne child sexual abuse case. 902 00:45:36,663 --> 00:45:38,643 REPORTER: The country's deputy health minister, 903 00:45:38,743 --> 00:45:41,482 who's from the same religious sect as Malka Leifer, 904 00:45:41,582 --> 00:45:44,562 appeared to have interfered with the extradition, 905 00:45:44,662 --> 00:45:46,602 by pressuring state psychiatrists 906 00:45:46,702 --> 00:45:48,361 to find she was mentally ill. 907 00:45:48,461 --> 00:45:51,041 AARON: I spoke with sources who told me this, 908 00:45:51,141 --> 00:45:54,041 Australian Haredi community of Malka Leifer 909 00:45:54,141 --> 00:45:56,080 raised a lot of money. 910 00:45:56,180 --> 00:45:59,880 I mean, millions and millions of dollars to help Malka Leifer. 911 00:45:59,980 --> 00:46:04,479 And they use it to get one famous rabbi here in Israel 912 00:46:04,579 --> 00:46:06,599 and one famous PR guy, 913 00:46:06,699 --> 00:46:09,519 and according to my sources, 914 00:46:09,619 --> 00:46:12,318 they have influence on Yaakov Litzman. 915 00:46:12,418 --> 00:46:16,118 This was an extreme misuse 916 00:46:16,218 --> 00:46:17,838 of governmental power. 917 00:46:17,938 --> 00:46:19,997 (IN ENGLISH) Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Israel. 918 00:46:20,097 --> 00:46:22,997 DASSI: We do know that he did instruct the psychiatrist 919 00:46:23,097 --> 00:46:25,357 to falsify the medical records 920 00:46:25,457 --> 00:46:27,677 and ensure that Malka Leifer 921 00:46:27,777 --> 00:46:30,116 was never found to be sane enough 922 00:46:30,216 --> 00:46:32,476 to continue extradition proceedings. 923 00:46:32,576 --> 00:46:34,836 And according to Israeli standards, 924 00:46:34,936 --> 00:46:39,075 Malka Leifer cannot be trialled here in Israel. 925 00:46:39,175 --> 00:46:40,795 Then by definition, 926 00:46:40,895 --> 00:46:44,195 Israel cannot send her back to Australia. 927 00:46:44,295 --> 00:46:47,074 NEWSREADER: Israeli police say there is sufficient evidence 928 00:46:47,174 --> 00:46:49,834 for Litzman to be charged with fraud and bribery. 929 00:46:49,934 --> 00:46:51,934 (PROTESTERS CHANT IN HEBREW) 930 00:46:53,213 --> 00:46:55,833 I attribute at least three years 931 00:46:55,933 --> 00:46:57,953 of re-traumatisation to Litzman. 932 00:46:58,053 --> 00:47:01,492 (PROTESTERS CONTINUE CHANTING) 933 00:47:03,612 --> 00:47:05,312 It feels very deeply betraying, 934 00:47:05,412 --> 00:47:08,252 particularly of someone ultra-Orthodox and religious. 935 00:47:10,651 --> 00:47:13,291 (SOMBRE VOCAL MUSIC) 936 00:47:19,690 --> 00:47:22,630 (MEN CONVERSE INAUDIBLY) 937 00:47:22,730 --> 00:47:25,410 (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK RAPIDLY) 938 00:47:26,769 --> 00:47:28,949 REPORTER: A huge development in the Malka Leifer case. 939 00:47:29,049 --> 00:47:31,709 REPORTER 2: A panel of psychiatrists in Jerusalem 940 00:47:31,809 --> 00:47:33,709 has ruled that Malka Leifer 941 00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:36,268 has been pretending she is mentally ill. 942 00:47:36,368 --> 00:47:38,628 REPORTER 3: This decision means Israeli authorities 943 00:47:38,728 --> 00:47:40,748 can proceed to an extradition hearing. 944 00:47:40,848 --> 00:47:42,847 (MATAN SPEAKS HEBREW) 945 00:47:53,606 --> 00:47:55,066 REPORTER: Israel's Supreme Court 946 00:47:55,166 --> 00:47:58,306 rejected her appeal of an extradition order. 947 00:47:58,406 --> 00:48:01,505 Malka Leifer will finally fly back to Australia. 948 00:48:01,605 --> 00:48:03,905 MAN: It's an absolute momentous occasion. 949 00:48:04,005 --> 00:48:07,065 Today we have just heard Judge Lomp rule 950 00:48:07,165 --> 00:48:11,304 that Malka Leifer is fit to face justice. 951 00:48:11,404 --> 00:48:14,424 Dassi, Elly and Nicole, please, the floor is yours. 952 00:48:14,524 --> 00:48:17,903 We are so incredibly happy and excited. 953 00:48:18,003 --> 00:48:19,743 We've been fighting six years for this. 954 00:48:19,843 --> 00:48:21,263 We can't stop smiling. 955 00:48:21,363 --> 00:48:24,422 There's just so many emotions flooding through us now. 956 00:48:24,522 --> 00:48:27,462 SHANA: Every single victim that comes forward in a public way, 957 00:48:27,562 --> 00:48:29,062 there's just a huge dent 958 00:48:29,162 --> 00:48:32,021 that gets made in the wall of silence. 959 00:48:32,121 --> 00:48:33,541 Do you actually realise what this means? 960 00:48:33,641 --> 00:48:35,701 Like, she's coming back to Australia. 961 00:48:35,801 --> 00:48:37,221 SHANA: Dassi, Nicole and Elly 962 00:48:37,321 --> 00:48:40,660 took that to a whole nother level in terms of exposure. 963 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,860 They fought really hard 964 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,460 and they advocated for themselves 965 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,340 in a way that I had never seen anybody advocate for themselves 966 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,539 before on such a public scale. 967 00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:51,679 (JET ROARS OVERHEAD) 968 00:48:58,078 --> 00:48:59,778 When I learned that 969 00:48:59,878 --> 00:49:02,818 Leifer was being extradited back, absolute elation. 970 00:49:02,918 --> 00:49:04,898 REPORTER: She was photographed getting onto a plane, 971 00:49:04,998 --> 00:49:08,057 which is reportedly headed for Frankfurt, in Germany, 972 00:49:08,157 --> 00:49:10,177 before she'll be flown to Australia. 973 00:49:10,277 --> 00:49:12,977 DANIELLE: And being in the height of COVID, 974 00:49:13,077 --> 00:49:15,376 each country had their own restrictions, 975 00:49:15,476 --> 00:49:19,056 so it was a bit of a mad rush to get her out of the country. 976 00:49:19,156 --> 00:49:21,156 (POIGNANT MUSIC) 977 00:49:24,955 --> 00:49:26,295 (PHONE CHIMES) 978 00:49:26,395 --> 00:49:29,974 DASSI: Fuck! Oh, my gosh. 979 00:49:30,074 --> 00:49:32,454 I am shaking. I'm literally shaking. 980 00:49:32,554 --> 00:49:34,654 I believe you. 981 00:49:34,754 --> 00:49:36,914 When's the last time you've eaten? 982 00:49:38,473 --> 00:49:40,413 All of a sudden, a photo popped up 983 00:49:40,513 --> 00:49:41,933 on my WhatsApp group 984 00:49:42,033 --> 00:49:43,693 of Leifer getting onto the plane 985 00:49:43,793 --> 00:49:46,133 and I literally could not breathe for half an hour. 986 00:49:46,233 --> 00:49:47,412 Like, literally, I felt like someone 987 00:49:47,512 --> 00:49:49,512 was constricting my oxygen. 988 00:49:51,112 --> 00:49:52,452 Not just hearing about it. 989 00:49:52,552 --> 00:49:54,372 Actually seeing her, 990 00:49:54,472 --> 00:49:56,571 this person that's dominated 991 00:49:56,671 --> 00:49:58,891 every single waking moment, 992 00:49:58,991 --> 00:50:00,571 sleeping moment of my life 993 00:50:00,671 --> 00:50:03,410 for the last 13 years is actually... 994 00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:07,130 Yeah, it's...too surreal to even...to even contemplate 995 00:50:07,230 --> 00:50:08,410 and to even try and explain 996 00:50:08,510 --> 00:50:10,090 to anyone else other than my sisters. 997 00:50:10,190 --> 00:50:13,649 REPORTER: Malka Leifer touching down on Australian soil 998 00:50:13,749 --> 00:50:16,289 for the first time in 13 years. 999 00:50:16,389 --> 00:50:19,408 I need to hear that nothing happened to her on the plane 1000 00:50:19,508 --> 00:50:21,408 and she actually walks off the plane 1001 00:50:21,508 --> 00:50:24,208 and then to put it into words again. 1002 00:50:24,308 --> 00:50:27,547 From 2008 till now... 1003 00:50:29,547 --> 00:50:31,207 ..it's 13 years, it's a whole lifetime. 1004 00:50:31,307 --> 00:50:32,847 DASSI ON PHONE: 1005 00:50:32,947 --> 00:50:34,947 OK. OK. OK. 1006 00:50:36,186 --> 00:50:38,006 OK, so... 1007 00:50:38,106 --> 00:50:40,166 It wasn't Victoria Police's jurisdiction 1008 00:50:40,266 --> 00:50:42,266 in any of the other countries. 1009 00:50:43,306 --> 00:50:46,285 The moment the wheels landed, turned to her, 1010 00:50:46,385 --> 00:50:49,685 "You're under arrest for sexual abuse allegations 1011 00:50:49,785 --> 00:50:51,205 "in relation to Hadassa Erlich, 1012 00:50:51,305 --> 00:50:53,564 "Elisheva Sapper, Nechama Meyer. 1013 00:50:53,664 --> 00:50:55,604 "Don't have to say or do anything. 1014 00:50:55,704 --> 00:50:56,764 "Do you understand?" 1015 00:50:56,864 --> 00:50:59,844 Grunted at me. Multiple times. 1016 00:50:59,944 --> 00:51:02,363 NICOLE: Dassi, you've literally got to change the hashtag 1017 00:51:02,463 --> 00:51:03,523 to "LeiferIsBack". 1018 00:51:03,623 --> 00:51:04,803 DASSI: I'm just gonna write, 1019 00:51:04,903 --> 00:51:05,843 "Leifer has arrived in Melbourne." 1020 00:51:05,943 --> 00:51:06,883 Just write, "She's touched down." 1021 00:51:06,983 --> 00:51:07,923 DASSI: Something like that. 1022 00:51:08,023 --> 00:51:09,482 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 1023 00:51:09,582 --> 00:51:10,562 DASSI: ..police cars there. 1024 00:51:10,662 --> 00:51:11,842 NICOLE: Yeah, but then there was one 1025 00:51:11,942 --> 00:51:13,042 further back, there. 1026 00:51:13,142 --> 00:51:14,762 REPORTER: She was driven off the tarmac 1027 00:51:14,862 --> 00:51:16,562 at Tullamarine last night 1028 00:51:16,662 --> 00:51:18,661 and into police custody. 1029 00:51:20,021 --> 00:51:22,121 I think the minute she landed in Australia, 1030 00:51:22,221 --> 00:51:25,760 it was a very physical sensation of her being in close proximity. 1031 00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:30,640 I feel we're connected again, not in a good way, 1032 00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:32,640 but my whole body felt it. 1033 00:51:32,740 --> 00:51:34,759 (POLICE RADIO CHATTER) 1034 00:51:34,859 --> 00:51:35,879 (TRAM BELL DINGS) 1035 00:51:35,979 --> 00:51:37,979 (TRAFFIC HUBBUB) 1036 00:51:45,138 --> 00:51:47,898 NICOLE: They've just taken out paragraphs upon paragraphs. 1037 00:51:49,298 --> 00:51:53,957 Half of this page is gone. Most of this page has gone. 1038 00:51:54,057 --> 00:51:57,877 For the first time, I wavered on my ability to do this. 1039 00:51:57,977 --> 00:52:00,076 I got a phone call last week 1040 00:52:00,176 --> 00:52:01,756 and the prosecutor let me know 1041 00:52:01,856 --> 00:52:04,356 that they are redacting a large part of my statement, 1042 00:52:04,456 --> 00:52:07,835 from the day I got married until Malka Leifer left in 2008, 1043 00:52:07,935 --> 00:52:09,635 which is a year and a half. 1044 00:52:09,735 --> 00:52:11,155 I asked her why. 1045 00:52:11,255 --> 00:52:13,695 I will not find out the reason until after trial. 1046 00:52:15,134 --> 00:52:19,054 But I'm assuming just the age, consent, perhaps. 1047 00:52:20,014 --> 00:52:21,714 If I was married and I should have known 1048 00:52:21,814 --> 00:52:23,553 that she was abusing me. 1049 00:52:23,653 --> 00:52:27,953 But abuse is not just the sexual abuse, it's the emotional, 1050 00:52:28,053 --> 00:52:30,373 it's the mental, it's the coercive control. 1051 00:52:31,932 --> 00:52:35,872 So it just feels like a complete invalidation 1052 00:52:35,972 --> 00:52:39,771 and misunderstanding of abuse and power. 1053 00:52:40,771 --> 00:52:43,791 I finished Year 12 and started teaching directly under her, 1054 00:52:43,891 --> 00:52:46,471 and she abused me for six and a half 1055 00:52:46,571 --> 00:52:48,690 out of the seven years that she was here. 1056 00:52:49,810 --> 00:52:51,550 She was part of my wedding day, 1057 00:52:51,650 --> 00:52:53,750 and she abused me 1058 00:52:53,850 --> 00:52:58,029 throughout all of that year and a half. 1059 00:52:58,129 --> 00:53:02,989 I got married in August 2006 and became pregnant. 1060 00:53:03,089 --> 00:53:06,608 Did not make any difference to the level of abuse. 1061 00:53:07,688 --> 00:53:09,388 She was a big person, 1062 00:53:09,488 --> 00:53:11,228 and I was so conscious 1063 00:53:11,328 --> 00:53:15,327 of her big body on top of my body, squashing my baby. 1064 00:53:17,047 --> 00:53:20,826 The instinct to protect my child is what stopped me 1065 00:53:20,926 --> 00:53:24,806 from being alone with her in a room again in that position. 1066 00:53:26,926 --> 00:53:29,645 But it continued for the next year and a half. 1067 00:53:31,925 --> 00:53:33,625 There are no charges for that time, 1068 00:53:33,725 --> 00:53:37,564 and that cannot be spoken about at all or it will be mistrial. 1069 00:53:39,684 --> 00:53:41,264 In a way, it feels almost like I'm lying 1070 00:53:41,364 --> 00:53:43,864 'cause I'm stopping at a certain point. 1071 00:53:43,964 --> 00:53:49,023 If it's not my whole story, then why should I go up on the stand? 1072 00:53:49,123 --> 00:53:51,763 (SOLEMN MUSIC) 1073 00:54:09,681 --> 00:54:11,500 How many court hearings, for real? 1074 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,300 How many court hearings have we had? 1075 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:14,580 74 court hearings in Israel. 1076 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,180 And then another bunch here as well. 1077 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:17,580 At least 20 here. 1078 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,899 This is the justice that we were waiting for. 1079 00:54:20,999 --> 00:54:22,779 -We can do this, guys. -We can. 1080 00:54:22,879 --> 00:54:24,979 -Hug. Aw! -On camera? 1081 00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:26,339 (CHUCKLES) 1082 00:54:26,439 --> 00:54:27,698 I'm gonna cry. 1083 00:54:27,798 --> 00:54:30,098 No. Elly, you're so not crying now. 1084 00:54:30,198 --> 00:54:31,738 -You're so emotional. -(LAUGHS) I'm so emotional. 1085 00:54:31,838 --> 00:54:33,138 You'll be emotional for all of us. 1086 00:54:33,238 --> 00:54:35,217 -Yeah. -OK, OK, shush, shush, shush. 1087 00:54:35,317 --> 00:54:36,857 I just need to read through my charges. 1088 00:54:36,957 --> 00:54:39,497 No, no, no, don't ask me. I just need to read my charges. 1089 00:54:39,597 --> 00:54:40,897 DASSI: Yeah, don't read it now, Chams. 1090 00:54:40,997 --> 00:54:42,537 -You've done your... -I'm scared I forgot something. 1091 00:54:42,637 --> 00:54:45,776 DASSI: You've got it all. You know, it's in your memory. 1092 00:54:45,876 --> 00:54:47,416 You're not gonna know every single detail. 1093 00:54:47,516 --> 00:54:48,736 Like, that's impossible. 1094 00:54:48,836 --> 00:54:50,416 Our memory doesn't work like that. 1095 00:54:50,516 --> 00:54:51,455 (CAR DOOR CLOSES) 1096 00:54:51,555 --> 00:54:54,255 -OK. -Breathe. 1097 00:54:54,355 --> 00:54:56,015 -Just remember to breathe. -Keep on breathing. 1098 00:54:56,115 --> 00:54:57,135 OK. 1099 00:54:57,235 --> 00:54:59,235 -(PEDESTRIAN SIGNAL TICKS) -(QUIET CHATTER) 1100 00:55:04,674 --> 00:55:07,734 DASSI: Just sitting here together and... 1101 00:55:07,834 --> 00:55:10,173 ELLY: Starting to feel the anxiety a bit of... 1102 00:55:10,273 --> 00:55:11,453 -Yeah. -..Nechama being on the stand. 1103 00:55:11,553 --> 00:55:14,333 We know she's absolutely giving evidence now. 1104 00:55:14,433 --> 00:55:17,012 DASSI: It's just starting to feel a bit... 1105 00:55:17,112 --> 00:55:18,452 -ELLY: Overwhelming. -DASSI: Overwhelming. 1106 00:55:18,552 --> 00:55:20,132 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1107 00:55:20,232 --> 00:55:22,972 NICOLE: It's huge to acknowledge abuse 1108 00:55:23,072 --> 00:55:25,291 that happened two decades ago, 1109 00:55:25,391 --> 00:55:28,251 trying to describe incidents that happened 17 years ago, 1110 00:55:28,351 --> 00:55:31,331 and it's so confronting. 1111 00:55:31,431 --> 00:55:34,250 I just need to remember to ask for breaks, 1112 00:55:34,350 --> 00:55:37,610 to go really slowly, and to just try and see him 1113 00:55:37,710 --> 00:55:40,870 as just an old man who cannot get under my skin. 1114 00:55:42,229 --> 00:55:47,509 We heard very specific details about the offending. 1115 00:55:48,669 --> 00:55:52,968 How Malka Leifer would groom the girls. 1116 00:55:53,068 --> 00:55:56,368 How she would develop an initial relationship with them, 1117 00:55:56,468 --> 00:55:58,607 then isolate them. 1118 00:55:58,707 --> 00:56:01,287 And then they went into really granular detail 1119 00:56:01,387 --> 00:56:03,407 about the offending itself. 1120 00:56:03,507 --> 00:56:06,486 Malka Leifer would remove their clothing 1121 00:56:06,586 --> 00:56:10,126 and remove her clothing, touch them in various ways. 1122 00:56:10,226 --> 00:56:15,485 It was really, really quite challenging to listen to. 1123 00:56:15,585 --> 00:56:19,205 The central defence strategy of Hill 1124 00:56:19,305 --> 00:56:23,364 appears to be that the evidence might be contaminated 1125 00:56:23,464 --> 00:56:26,084 because of collusion, 1126 00:56:26,184 --> 00:56:28,204 that they've shared stories with each other 1127 00:56:28,304 --> 00:56:29,684 over the course of the abuse 1128 00:56:29,784 --> 00:56:30,843 and that's contaminated 1129 00:56:30,943 --> 00:56:33,163 everybody's recollection of the abuse, 1130 00:56:33,263 --> 00:56:35,123 which means that the evidence is tainted 1131 00:56:35,223 --> 00:56:36,963 and that the jury should take that into account 1132 00:56:37,063 --> 00:56:39,082 when they're determining guilt. 1133 00:56:39,182 --> 00:56:41,882 NICOLE: Ian literally said to me outright, 1134 00:56:41,982 --> 00:56:44,002 "You are constructing this story." 1135 00:56:44,102 --> 00:56:45,762 He said, "I want to suggest to you 1136 00:56:45,862 --> 00:56:48,481 "that nothing happened in Year 11 and Year 12. 1137 00:56:48,581 --> 00:56:49,761 "I want to suggest to you 1138 00:56:49,861 --> 00:56:52,441 "that she did not assault you at all, 1139 00:56:52,541 --> 00:56:54,441 "altogether, in all the years." 1140 00:56:54,541 --> 00:56:56,960 That was what he was doing throughout the entire day. 1141 00:56:57,060 --> 00:57:00,280 So it really chips away at your story. 1142 00:57:00,380 --> 00:57:02,000 In sexual assault trials, 1143 00:57:02,100 --> 00:57:04,719 it's one person's word against another's 1144 00:57:04,819 --> 00:57:06,799 or three people's words against another's, 1145 00:57:06,899 --> 00:57:10,999 and they're the ones essentially having to prove their case. 1146 00:57:11,099 --> 00:57:13,318 They are essentially on trial. 1147 00:57:13,418 --> 00:57:15,358 Malka Leifer's not sitting in the witness box 1148 00:57:15,458 --> 00:57:17,638 being cross-examined and she doesn't have to. 1149 00:57:17,738 --> 00:57:19,738 That is her right under this system. 1150 00:57:21,337 --> 00:57:22,677 DASSI: You're done. 1151 00:57:22,777 --> 00:57:24,597 -I know. -DASSI: Can I keep punching you? 1152 00:57:24,697 --> 00:57:26,957 You can keep punching me, but I'm just not feeling anything. 1153 00:57:27,057 --> 00:57:29,356 I'm just so, like, in shock. I'm literally in shock. 1154 00:57:29,456 --> 00:57:31,156 DASSI: I know, I know, I know. 1155 00:57:31,256 --> 00:57:34,916 (SPARSE MUSIC) 1156 00:57:35,016 --> 00:57:37,615 NICOLE: Today was absolutely brutal. 1157 00:57:39,935 --> 00:57:44,435 Saying so openly about rape and how she did it and positioning, 1158 00:57:44,535 --> 00:57:48,434 it's just been the most massive day of my life, 1159 00:57:48,534 --> 00:57:50,794 and to be honest, there's parts of me 1160 00:57:50,894 --> 00:57:53,193 that feel that they don't want to live till tomorrow. 1161 00:57:53,293 --> 00:57:55,153 (BREATHES SHAKILY) 1162 00:57:55,253 --> 00:57:58,413 (SPARSE MUSIC) 1163 00:57:59,973 --> 00:58:01,912 -LEAH: This is great. -DASSI: I know, I told you. 1164 00:58:02,012 --> 00:58:04,552 -LEAH: It's colour by number. -DASSI: You don't have to think. 1165 00:58:04,652 --> 00:58:05,832 You're not sitting there thinking, 1166 00:58:05,932 --> 00:58:07,032 "Oh, what should I paint?" 1167 00:58:07,132 --> 00:58:08,552 You're literally just following something 1168 00:58:08,652 --> 00:58:10,791 that's already decided where you're gonna paint. 1169 00:58:10,891 --> 00:58:12,991 We'll take an Uber from here. We'll go to the court. 1170 00:58:13,091 --> 00:58:14,991 And then I'm on, and this is the first time 1171 00:58:15,091 --> 00:58:16,951 that I'm gonna have to give my evidence in chief, 1172 00:58:17,051 --> 00:58:18,910 which means I have to talk through all my statements. 1173 00:58:19,010 --> 00:58:20,950 LEAH: Mm-hm. And what do you need? 1174 00:58:21,050 --> 00:58:23,030 Like, what's good for you? Do you like to just... 1175 00:58:23,130 --> 00:58:25,110 Just a hug, I think, to calm my nervous system. 1176 00:58:25,210 --> 00:58:26,909 OK. Alright. 1177 00:58:27,009 --> 00:58:30,829 It was so difficult to support Dassi through that. 1178 00:58:30,929 --> 00:58:33,229 You have got the power in that room, and I've told you, 1179 00:58:33,329 --> 00:58:36,188 you're the most resilient human I know. 1180 00:58:36,288 --> 00:58:38,468 I was constantly questioning myself, 1181 00:58:38,568 --> 00:58:41,108 wondering whether I was actually saying the right things. 1182 00:58:41,208 --> 00:58:42,787 I think once I get on the stand... 1183 00:58:42,887 --> 00:58:45,467 -You'll be brilliant. -..and I start talking... 1184 00:58:45,567 --> 00:58:47,867 LEAH: I found it impossible to emotionally detach myself 1185 00:58:47,967 --> 00:58:51,026 from what the sisters were going through. 1186 00:58:51,126 --> 00:58:53,506 All I wanted for them was relief. 1187 00:58:53,606 --> 00:58:55,746 I've taken my meds, but I'm taking my meds with me. 1188 00:58:55,846 --> 00:58:57,066 ELLY: Yeah, if you feel yourself dropping... 1189 00:58:57,166 --> 00:58:58,426 Otherwise I'll crash after four hours, yeah. 1190 00:58:58,526 --> 00:58:59,665 ELLY: Yeah. Very good. 1191 00:58:59,765 --> 00:59:00,885 NICOLE: And lunchtime, get something to eat. 1192 00:59:00,965 --> 00:59:02,505 I might not need every half an hour break. 1193 00:59:02,605 --> 00:59:03,865 NICOLE: She doesn't think she can eat, 1194 00:59:03,965 --> 00:59:05,465 but you'll have to force yourself to have something. 1195 00:59:05,565 --> 00:59:07,824 LEAH: I could feel her mental health, 1196 00:59:07,924 --> 00:59:09,904 the roller-coaster of it. 1197 00:59:10,004 --> 00:59:12,224 I can always tell Dassi's going through stress 1198 00:59:12,324 --> 00:59:15,144 when she starts speaking even more quickly with less breaths. 1199 00:59:15,244 --> 00:59:17,143 What's your heart rate? 1200 00:59:17,243 --> 00:59:19,183 What's yours? 1201 00:59:19,283 --> 00:59:21,583 -83. -61. 1202 00:59:21,683 --> 00:59:24,382 -So high. -But you're not... 1203 00:59:24,482 --> 00:59:27,642 (SPARSE MUSIC) 1204 00:59:29,362 --> 00:59:32,281 DASSI: It was torture to be cross-examined. 1205 00:59:33,481 --> 00:59:34,781 Effectively on trial, 1206 00:59:34,881 --> 00:59:38,041 because that's what it's like to be a witness. 1207 00:59:39,321 --> 00:59:41,020 You are on trial. 1208 00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,740 My whole life was open to being subpoenaed, 1209 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:48,659 my medical records, messages between myself and friends, 1210 00:59:48,759 --> 00:59:51,139 so that they could use it against me on the stand, 1211 00:59:51,239 --> 00:59:52,499 which is what they did, 1212 00:59:52,599 --> 00:59:54,419 putting to me over and over again 1213 00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:56,878 that I was lying, that I had made this up. 1214 00:59:58,918 --> 01:00:03,158 The first time that she touched me... 1215 01:00:04,438 --> 01:00:07,497 ..she had taken me out of school and to her home 1216 01:00:07,597 --> 01:00:11,177 for an afternoon to have private lessons. 1217 01:00:11,277 --> 01:00:13,016 And I remember her coming home 1218 01:00:13,116 --> 01:00:16,576 and checking to see if her husband was home, 1219 01:00:16,676 --> 01:00:18,856 realising that she had the house to herself 1220 01:00:18,956 --> 01:00:22,155 and locking the door and telling me to go to the couch. 1221 01:00:23,635 --> 01:00:24,895 She said to me, 1222 01:00:24,995 --> 01:00:27,815 "This is what a mother that loves you does, 1223 01:00:27,915 --> 01:00:30,314 "and I'm like a mother to you." 1224 01:00:32,114 --> 01:00:36,334 Not having had any experience of what a loving mother does, 1225 01:00:36,434 --> 01:00:38,673 there was a time that I believed her. 1226 01:00:41,553 --> 01:00:43,933 I didn't know how to make sense of it, 1227 01:00:44,033 --> 01:00:46,532 and I remember going back to school and just wondering 1228 01:00:46,632 --> 01:00:51,312 what on earth had just happened and why had it happened. 1229 01:00:55,911 --> 01:00:59,931 I just wanted to literally get a blanket and pull it over my head 1230 01:01:00,031 --> 01:01:01,411 and just be like, "Go away!" to everybody. 1231 01:01:01,511 --> 01:01:02,690 NICOLE AND ELLY: Yeah. 1232 01:01:02,790 --> 01:01:03,930 And then, like, instead, 1233 01:01:04,030 --> 01:01:05,650 I have to sit there and talk more 1234 01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:09,090 and talk about more things that are horrific. 1235 01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:10,729 ELLY: In detail. 1236 01:01:10,829 --> 01:01:13,529 In, like, the most detail that you could ever think of. 1237 01:01:13,629 --> 01:01:15,089 NICOLE: ..that you've ever spoken to someone about. 1238 01:01:15,189 --> 01:01:16,289 -Yeah. -ELLY: To a room of strangers. 1239 01:01:16,389 --> 01:01:17,689 Exactly. 1240 01:01:17,789 --> 01:01:20,988 ELLY: The whole process is massively re-traumatising. 1241 01:01:23,188 --> 01:01:25,648 -FRIEDA: Hello, Dassi. -DASSI: Frieda! 1242 01:01:25,748 --> 01:01:27,567 FRIEDA: How are you? 1243 01:01:27,667 --> 01:01:29,287 -Entrez-vous. -Whew! 1244 01:01:29,387 --> 01:01:31,207 -It's been a long day. -WOMAN: Hey. 1245 01:01:31,307 --> 01:01:33,767 You look pretty good for someone who's just endured... 1246 01:01:33,867 --> 01:01:35,367 DASSI: This has literally taken over my life, 1247 01:01:35,467 --> 01:01:37,126 and that's why I just wanted to come here 1248 01:01:37,226 --> 01:01:39,206 and just have some time, like, away from all of that, 1249 01:01:39,306 --> 01:01:41,886 'cause my whole family is just, like, filled up with that drama. 1250 01:01:41,986 --> 01:01:43,805 Have you ever wanted to be a lawyer? 1251 01:01:43,905 --> 01:01:46,245 DASSI: No, but I keep being told I should be a lawyer. 1252 01:01:46,345 --> 01:01:48,405 DASSI: Henry is Josh's father. 1253 01:01:48,505 --> 01:01:50,325 Him and Maralyn, his wife, 1254 01:01:50,425 --> 01:01:52,804 I hadn't really known them when I was married to Josh 1255 01:01:52,904 --> 01:01:54,644 because they weren't religious 1256 01:01:54,744 --> 01:01:56,884 and we didn't have a lot to do with them. 1257 01:01:56,984 --> 01:01:58,924 MARALYN: When do you think this will be over? 1258 01:01:59,024 --> 01:02:00,683 Like, can you see an end of the... 1259 01:02:00,783 --> 01:02:02,203 -DASSI: They said six weeks. -Six weeks? 1260 01:02:02,303 --> 01:02:05,403 DASSI: I hadn't actually seen Frieda, Henry's sister, 1261 01:02:05,503 --> 01:02:07,723 at all since my wedding, 1262 01:02:07,823 --> 01:02:10,802 but she came to visit me while I was in hospital. 1263 01:02:10,902 --> 01:02:13,402 They were just incredibly supportive people 1264 01:02:13,502 --> 01:02:15,122 and continue to be to this day. 1265 01:02:15,222 --> 01:02:16,442 MARALYN: Now, this has literally... 1266 01:02:16,542 --> 01:02:20,161 DASSI: In 2011, I was in a psychiatric hospital 1267 01:02:20,261 --> 01:02:21,521 with my daughter, 1268 01:02:21,621 --> 01:02:24,221 suffering from really bad postpartum depression. 1269 01:02:25,300 --> 01:02:28,840 I'm self-harming and I'm suicidal. 1270 01:02:28,940 --> 01:02:32,400 It was my first exposure to actually sitting down 1271 01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:35,499 having conversations with people outside of my community. 1272 01:02:36,859 --> 01:02:38,439 I really struggled with this idea 1273 01:02:38,539 --> 01:02:40,359 that I had been taught throughout my whole life 1274 01:02:40,459 --> 01:02:44,238 that I was superior to them because of the way I lived 1275 01:02:44,338 --> 01:02:46,818 and the way I covered my hair and the way I dress. 1276 01:02:47,978 --> 01:02:52,837 And if that was wrong, then what else was wrong? 1277 01:02:52,937 --> 01:02:56,057 (PENSIVE MUSIC) 1278 01:02:58,256 --> 01:03:00,436 CHANA: Sadly, perhaps not for them, 1279 01:03:00,536 --> 01:03:02,356 but, I think, for the community, 1280 01:03:02,456 --> 01:03:04,116 Nicole's the only sister 1281 01:03:04,216 --> 01:03:06,515 still an active part of the Orthodox community. 1282 01:03:06,615 --> 01:03:11,155 And I say 'sadly' because the community failed Elly and Dassi. 1283 01:03:11,255 --> 01:03:14,235 Even when the revelations came out, they weren't supported, 1284 01:03:14,335 --> 01:03:16,434 they weren't apologised to, they weren't... 1285 01:03:16,534 --> 01:03:18,534 They weren't cared for. 1286 01:03:23,933 --> 01:03:25,433 ELLY: I'm gonna vomit. 1287 01:03:25,533 --> 01:03:28,273 I'm literally scared of my mind going blank. 1288 01:03:28,373 --> 01:03:30,113 DASSI: If you're going blank, ask for a break. 1289 01:03:30,213 --> 01:03:31,952 NICOLE: I brought you, just, like, a few caramel 1290 01:03:32,052 --> 01:03:33,992 and two other chocolates if you just need something sweet 1291 01:03:34,092 --> 01:03:35,712 to give you a bit of energy, OK? 1292 01:03:35,812 --> 01:03:37,152 -ELLY: Thank you. -So I've got that for you. 1293 01:03:37,252 --> 01:03:38,792 DASSI: You have to eat something that has protein. 1294 01:03:38,892 --> 01:03:39,991 I'll see how I feel in lunchtime. 1295 01:03:40,091 --> 01:03:42,311 -Yep. Yeah. -ELLY: OK. Should we go? 1296 01:03:42,411 --> 01:03:44,971 -NICOLE: Yeah, fine. -OK, let's go. 1297 01:03:49,210 --> 01:03:51,030 DASSI: Els, you need a plan for the weekend, 1298 01:03:51,130 --> 01:03:54,190 something nice to do together, you and Danny, you really do. 1299 01:03:54,290 --> 01:03:56,909 I can babysit Maddie on Friday night or Saturday night. 1300 01:03:57,009 --> 01:03:59,949 But you're gonna need that after this intensity. 1301 01:04:00,049 --> 01:04:01,829 I think it's really hard on Danny. 1302 01:04:01,929 --> 01:04:04,028 NICOLE: Yeah, I think so too. I... 1303 01:04:04,128 --> 01:04:07,388 I'm feeling for him, but I know that he's... He's OK, but... 1304 01:04:07,488 --> 01:04:09,708 -DASSI: He is, he will be OK. -NICOLE: He's solid. 1305 01:04:09,808 --> 01:04:11,428 And you can't think too much about him. 1306 01:04:11,528 --> 01:04:13,527 He's your support person. 1307 01:04:19,367 --> 01:04:24,446 ELLY: I understand defence lawyers are there for a purpose. 1308 01:04:25,886 --> 01:04:30,905 However, my experience being cross-examined by him 1309 01:04:31,005 --> 01:04:34,965 was...I...I felt degraded. 1310 01:04:37,484 --> 01:04:42,344 I haven't shared things 1311 01:04:42,444 --> 01:04:47,103 that have happened with my father 1312 01:04:47,203 --> 01:04:49,983 because I don't have the mental capacity 1313 01:04:50,083 --> 01:04:52,863 to deal with that particular event. 1314 01:04:52,963 --> 01:04:55,282 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1315 01:05:02,961 --> 01:05:07,261 Ian insinuated that because of previous things 1316 01:05:07,361 --> 01:05:11,420 that happened at home with my father 1317 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,580 that I understood what sex was, 1318 01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:19,599 and therefore what happened with Malka Leifer was consensual. 1319 01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:23,519 He wanted me to crumble. 1320 01:05:26,918 --> 01:05:28,698 DANNY: I think you... you withstood 1321 01:05:28,798 --> 01:05:30,498 some of the worst cruelty 1322 01:05:30,598 --> 01:05:32,218 I've ever seen. 1323 01:05:32,318 --> 01:05:36,737 I mean, the judge jumped in and said, "You can't say that." 1324 01:05:36,837 --> 01:05:39,397 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1325 01:05:53,675 --> 01:05:58,055 ELLY: It got to me that Leifer was there listening. (SIGHS) 1326 01:05:58,155 --> 01:06:00,234 (SOMBRE MUSIC CONTINUES) 1327 01:06:01,714 --> 01:06:03,814 That was one of the most traumatic things 1328 01:06:03,914 --> 01:06:08,593 that I've ever experienced in terms of re-traumatising. 1329 01:06:12,233 --> 01:06:15,593 There's just no humanity. 1330 01:06:17,192 --> 01:06:22,392 How do we get to a point where one can do that to another? 1331 01:06:24,951 --> 01:06:26,951 It's so cruel. 1332 01:06:27,591 --> 01:06:30,611 Just got to pretend like these things don't happen, 1333 01:06:30,711 --> 01:06:33,710 and then my body takes a hit from it. 1334 01:06:35,030 --> 01:06:40,989 Which is probably why I...can't get pregnant. 1335 01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:48,509 (UNEASY MUSIC) 1336 01:06:53,308 --> 01:06:54,808 NICOLE: They're all aware of the story, 1337 01:06:54,908 --> 01:06:57,547 they all see it in the news, and nobody wants to come forward. 1338 01:07:00,187 --> 01:07:03,287 I was so angry this morning. 1339 01:07:03,387 --> 01:07:06,286 Like, I was getting so angry about the fact 1340 01:07:06,386 --> 01:07:11,126 that people can get up on the stand 1341 01:07:11,226 --> 01:07:13,246 in support of Mrs Leifer 1342 01:07:13,346 --> 01:07:16,165 and not have to worry about the community. 1343 01:07:16,265 --> 01:07:18,445 And the community will... "Oh, the community will understand." 1344 01:07:18,545 --> 01:07:19,845 -And they won't... -NICOLE: And support them. 1345 01:07:19,945 --> 01:07:22,884 But if anyone dare to stand up against her 1346 01:07:22,984 --> 01:07:24,924 or dare to stand up on behalf of us, 1347 01:07:25,024 --> 01:07:26,004 immediately they'll be ostracised. 1348 01:07:26,104 --> 01:07:27,404 Just getting so angry 1349 01:07:27,504 --> 01:07:29,924 about those twisted, twisted values 1350 01:07:30,024 --> 01:07:33,443 and how they've made no progress to support victims. 1351 01:07:33,543 --> 01:07:35,543 NICOLE: They can't handle it. 1352 01:07:36,623 --> 01:07:39,362 I don't have anger, even for Malka Leifer, 1353 01:07:39,462 --> 01:07:41,322 because anger doesn't serve me. 1354 01:07:41,422 --> 01:07:45,282 I just have a disappointment in the lack of enough growth. 1355 01:07:45,382 --> 01:07:48,881 The community as a whole hasn't moved far enough for me yet, 1356 01:07:48,981 --> 01:07:50,981 and that's what I'm deeply disappointed in. 1357 01:07:51,981 --> 01:07:54,201 People don't realise that by being silent, 1358 01:07:54,301 --> 01:07:56,300 they're actually enabling. 1359 01:07:57,860 --> 01:08:00,500 Oh, gosh, guys, here it is. 1360 01:08:03,979 --> 01:08:06,959 We weren't allowed to discuss any form 1361 01:08:07,059 --> 01:08:10,559 of what we said in our evidence, giving the evidence, 1362 01:08:10,659 --> 01:08:13,558 but also, for the rest of the trial, 1363 01:08:13,658 --> 01:08:18,038 we weren't actually allowed to watch the proceedings together. 1364 01:08:18,138 --> 01:08:20,877 Ha. He didn't let him finish the question. 1365 01:08:20,977 --> 01:08:22,357 He's also leaving the jury hanging 1366 01:08:22,457 --> 01:08:23,757 with that particular information 1367 01:08:23,857 --> 01:08:25,557 'cause it's the second time he's brought it up now, 1368 01:08:25,657 --> 01:08:28,116 to show that I read Dassi's statement when I never did. 1369 01:08:28,216 --> 01:08:31,156 We each sat in our own room... 1370 01:08:31,256 --> 01:08:33,596 (SCOFFS) 1371 01:08:33,696 --> 01:08:36,955 ..listening to the trial, but having to kind of, like, 1372 01:08:37,055 --> 01:08:39,835 scream across the rooms and say things here and there 1373 01:08:39,935 --> 01:08:45,474 in order not to be, I guess, in contempt of court. 1374 01:08:45,574 --> 01:08:46,954 DASSI: It doesn't make any sense, and I think 1375 01:08:47,054 --> 01:08:48,514 it's the most ridiculous thing in the world, 1376 01:08:48,614 --> 01:08:49,914 but here we are, each watching it. 1377 01:08:50,014 --> 01:08:50,954 We can talk about it, 1378 01:08:51,054 --> 01:08:52,713 but we just can't watch it together 1379 01:08:52,813 --> 01:08:53,953 on the same screen. 1380 01:08:54,053 --> 01:08:57,713 The next witness is up. Goodbye. 1381 01:08:57,813 --> 01:09:01,812 (HOPEFUL VOCAL MUSIC) 1382 01:09:05,212 --> 01:09:06,392 Hi. My name's Danny. 1383 01:09:06,492 --> 01:09:08,492 I was just hoping to chase down a result, please. 1384 01:09:11,851 --> 01:09:13,991 Thank you so much. Appreciate it. 1385 01:09:14,091 --> 01:09:16,311 -Do you have it? -DANNY: I do, but... 1386 01:09:16,411 --> 01:09:18,470 Do you have... Did you hear it? 1387 01:09:18,570 --> 01:09:20,430 I didn't hear it. Didn't hear it. 1388 01:09:20,530 --> 01:09:24,910 Whatever it is, it's going to be OK, yes? 1389 01:09:25,010 --> 01:09:27,009 -Mm-hm. -OK. 1390 01:09:30,849 --> 01:09:33,629 Yay. (LAUGHS) 1391 01:09:33,729 --> 01:09:37,208 -It's still in... -It's hard not to be excited. 1392 01:09:39,008 --> 01:09:41,908 NICOLE: After suffering secondary infertility 1393 01:09:42,008 --> 01:09:43,387 for two years 1394 01:09:43,487 --> 01:09:48,067 and having had four pregnancy losses, 1395 01:09:48,167 --> 01:09:51,046 I became pregnant. 1396 01:09:52,366 --> 01:09:54,866 -It's good news. -It is good news. 1397 01:09:54,966 --> 01:09:56,146 (SNIFFLES) 1398 01:09:56,246 --> 01:09:58,905 I remember thinking, "This isn't the right time," 1399 01:09:59,005 --> 01:10:03,665 at the same time thinking this little life 1400 01:10:03,765 --> 01:10:07,524 would give me the strength to get through trial. 1401 01:10:08,724 --> 01:10:10,824 She's not gonna take it away from us. 1402 01:10:10,924 --> 01:10:12,924 No. 1403 01:10:20,123 --> 01:10:24,302 DASSI: We basically found out that two of the charges 1404 01:10:24,402 --> 01:10:26,782 relating to Elly might be dropped 1405 01:10:26,882 --> 01:10:29,742 because of a quirk in the law. 1406 01:10:29,842 --> 01:10:33,181 The legislation changed around the time 1407 01:10:33,281 --> 01:10:35,741 that the incidents happened. 1408 01:10:35,841 --> 01:10:38,461 ELLY: Guys, here we go. The news. 1409 01:10:38,561 --> 01:10:40,780 "Two charges against former Melbourne principal 1410 01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:41,900 "Malka Leifer dropped 1411 01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,340 "as abuse trial nears end." 1412 01:10:43,440 --> 01:10:44,980 NICOLE: Does it say why in the article? 1413 01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:46,180 ELLY: Of course that's the headline. 1414 01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:48,139 NICOLE: Mm-hm. Fucking hell. 1415 01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:50,219 ELLY: It just makes it seem like she was acquitted. 1416 01:10:50,319 --> 01:10:53,699 It says my name and then the rest of it's just ramble. 1417 01:10:53,799 --> 01:10:55,339 NICOLE: Yeah, and 'The Australian' just literally says, 1418 01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:56,458 "Accused paedophile principal 1419 01:10:56,558 --> 01:10:58,138 "found not guilty on two charges." 1420 01:10:58,238 --> 01:10:59,778 That's the whole fucking... 1421 01:10:59,878 --> 01:11:03,058 I knew that would make the headlines like that. 1422 01:11:03,158 --> 01:11:05,897 And the jury has to be smart enough to take all that in 1423 01:11:05,997 --> 01:11:08,137 and everything the prosecution says, and the defence, 1424 01:11:08,237 --> 01:11:10,657 and then come back somehow with some guilty verdicts. 1425 01:11:10,757 --> 01:11:13,536 -But it seems so impossible... -It does. 1426 01:11:13,636 --> 01:11:15,576 ..for them to overcome all of that. 1427 01:11:15,676 --> 01:11:17,416 ELLY: That's true. 1428 01:11:17,516 --> 01:11:18,776 NICOLE: Els, how was your appointment? 1429 01:11:18,876 --> 01:11:19,976 DASSI: Could you hear the heartbeat? 1430 01:11:20,076 --> 01:11:21,335 -Yeah. -Did you get another picture? 1431 01:11:21,435 --> 01:11:23,375 -DASSI: Did you take a video? -Yeah, took a video. 1432 01:11:23,475 --> 01:11:24,735 -NICOLE: Can we listen to it? -Yeah. 1433 01:11:24,835 --> 01:11:26,695 But it's a bit, like, scratchy. 1434 01:11:26,795 --> 01:11:28,175 -NICOLE: That's OK. -DASSI: Doesn't matter. 1435 01:11:28,275 --> 01:11:31,674 (HEARTBEAT PULSES OVER WHITE NOISE) 1436 01:11:33,554 --> 01:11:35,134 -NICOLE: Definitely hear it. -DASSI: Oh, my gosh, Els. 1437 01:11:35,234 --> 01:11:36,774 NICOLE: That's beautiful. Can I see the picture? 1438 01:11:36,874 --> 01:11:38,373 -This is the blob. -DASSI: Can I see? 1439 01:11:38,473 --> 01:11:39,693 Wow. 1440 01:11:39,793 --> 01:11:41,253 ELLY: So it's just, like, it's starting to get... 1441 01:11:41,353 --> 01:11:42,773 -You know, it's starting to... -All clear. 1442 01:11:42,873 --> 01:11:44,873 -Can I see? -ELLY: All clear, yeah. 1443 01:11:46,792 --> 01:11:48,852 ELLY: So we're gonna have weekly scans, 1444 01:11:48,952 --> 01:11:52,492 and then, at 10 weeks now, they can find out the sex. 1445 01:11:52,592 --> 01:11:55,071 -NICOLE: Are you going to? -ELLY: Yeah. 1446 01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:09,130 DASSI: Can we get home as fast as possible? 1447 01:12:09,230 --> 01:12:12,109 My blood pressure is crashing really badly. 1448 01:12:13,229 --> 01:12:14,529 Like, I might faint. 1449 01:12:14,629 --> 01:12:16,629 And that would really not be good. 1450 01:12:17,789 --> 01:12:19,848 They keep repeating how brutal it's going to be, 1451 01:12:19,948 --> 01:12:22,768 and we know that, but when they keep repeating it, it... 1452 01:12:22,868 --> 01:12:24,888 Just hearing Ian's voice during all the arguments, 1453 01:12:24,988 --> 01:12:26,927 he comes across as someone so intelligent, 1454 01:12:27,027 --> 01:12:30,127 and then he puts these absolute statements forward. 1455 01:12:30,227 --> 01:12:32,227 Yeah, that's what scares me. 1456 01:12:34,027 --> 01:12:35,326 ELLY: Yeah. 1457 01:12:35,426 --> 01:12:37,766 That was the first time that I heard everything 1458 01:12:37,866 --> 01:12:41,186 that happened to you and everything that happened to you. 1459 01:12:43,585 --> 01:12:45,585 (SIGHS) 1460 01:12:50,545 --> 01:12:53,884 DASSI: Thinking about going into hospital. 1461 01:12:53,984 --> 01:12:56,124 Old coping mechanisms are coming up, 1462 01:12:56,224 --> 01:12:58,564 self-destructive coping mechanisms. 1463 01:12:58,664 --> 01:13:00,483 I'm using up energy I don't have 1464 01:13:00,583 --> 01:13:03,203 to fight these self-destructive urges 1465 01:13:03,303 --> 01:13:06,963 because the feelings with all of this trauma 1466 01:13:07,063 --> 01:13:09,062 is so overwhelming. 1467 01:13:13,422 --> 01:13:15,562 NICOLE: Dassi, I'm terrified. 1468 01:13:15,662 --> 01:13:18,881 What if I didn't do a good enough job? 1469 01:13:18,981 --> 01:13:20,161 I'm so scared. 1470 01:13:20,261 --> 01:13:22,041 I can see that you're very scared, 1471 01:13:22,141 --> 01:13:24,201 but you gave your evidence, you did the best that you could. 1472 01:13:24,301 --> 01:13:26,080 He's finished his fricking closing arguments, 1473 01:13:26,180 --> 01:13:27,240 like, finally. 1474 01:13:27,340 --> 01:13:29,480 You're gonna be in such a state of anxiety 1475 01:13:29,580 --> 01:13:31,360 the whole time that the jury is deliberating 1476 01:13:31,460 --> 01:13:33,119 if you keep thinking like that. 1477 01:13:33,219 --> 01:13:35,199 I know, but I only have five charges, 1478 01:13:35,299 --> 01:13:37,279 but they were redacted a huge part of my statement, 1479 01:13:37,379 --> 01:13:39,279 and they redacted bits in my statement. 1480 01:13:39,379 --> 01:13:40,839 DASSI: If they find her guilty 1481 01:13:40,939 --> 01:13:43,078 that something that she did for me or Elly, 1482 01:13:43,178 --> 01:13:46,358 then why are you lying about it but we're saying the truth? 1483 01:13:46,458 --> 01:13:49,198 We think like that, but the way that Ian put it to them today 1484 01:13:49,298 --> 01:13:50,517 and the way that they're trying to discredit... 1485 01:13:50,617 --> 01:13:51,877 DASSI: The argument's stupid. 1486 01:13:51,977 --> 01:13:55,097 Yeah, but are the jury smart enough to think that? 1487 01:13:56,977 --> 01:14:00,116 DASSI: The jury either believes us or they don't believe us. 1488 01:14:00,216 --> 01:14:03,376 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1489 01:14:11,455 --> 01:14:14,434 NICOLE: OK. Moving out of the Quest today. Missing you, Els. 1490 01:14:14,534 --> 01:14:15,714 We'll send you this after. 1491 01:14:15,814 --> 01:14:18,034 This 3-, 4-day hiatus might actually, 1492 01:14:18,134 --> 01:14:20,794 I don't know, maybe it'll help us mentally reset, 1493 01:14:20,894 --> 01:14:22,194 but I don't really think it will. 1494 01:14:22,294 --> 01:14:24,793 And we're just going to be waiting for deliberation. 1495 01:14:24,893 --> 01:14:28,513 Yeah, moving back home and not sure how I'm feeling about that, 1496 01:14:28,613 --> 01:14:31,392 but we are leaving the Quest now. 1497 01:14:31,492 --> 01:14:32,672 Don't really have much else to say. 1498 01:14:32,772 --> 01:14:33,912 I can see. 1499 01:14:34,012 --> 01:14:36,392 'Bye. I don't think the 'bye' got on there. 1500 01:14:36,492 --> 01:14:37,792 We'll send it to Elly 1501 01:14:37,892 --> 01:14:39,871 and then she'll just get a sense of where we are today. 1502 01:14:39,971 --> 01:14:41,471 I think she'll appreciate that. 1503 01:14:41,571 --> 01:14:43,071 I can send her the bloopers as well. 1504 01:14:43,171 --> 01:14:45,171 Then they'll give her something to laugh about. 1505 01:14:47,171 --> 01:14:48,430 DASSI: She's resting today 1506 01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:50,790 'cause she had surgery yesterday 1507 01:14:50,890 --> 01:14:53,810 and she is recovering from that this morning. 1508 01:14:55,929 --> 01:14:56,909 What are you writing? 1509 01:14:57,009 --> 01:14:58,509 "Thank you. We enjoyed our stay here." 1510 01:14:58,609 --> 01:15:01,569 I would've written more, but my handwriting's a bit too shaky. 1511 01:15:02,809 --> 01:15:04,828 -Got it? -Yep. 1512 01:15:04,928 --> 01:15:06,588 NICOLE: Let's just make sure we check in with each other. 1513 01:15:06,688 --> 01:15:09,428 Do you want to make time for coffee tomorrow or Friday? 1514 01:15:09,528 --> 01:15:12,527 I have no idea how I'm gonna be feeling tomorrow. 1515 01:15:15,527 --> 01:15:16,987 NICOLE: Do you think it's going to feel weird 1516 01:15:17,087 --> 01:15:18,427 not living together now? 1517 01:15:18,527 --> 01:15:19,907 DASSI: Yeah. 1518 01:15:20,007 --> 01:15:21,506 NICOLE: I think we'll just end up calling each other, 1519 01:15:21,606 --> 01:15:22,586 like, 10 times a day. 1520 01:15:22,686 --> 01:15:24,146 DASSI: Back to usual life, hey? 1521 01:15:24,246 --> 01:15:26,106 -And we managed quite well. -DASSI: We did. 1522 01:15:26,206 --> 01:15:27,266 Like, we didn't have any, like... 1523 01:15:27,366 --> 01:15:28,625 DASSI: Did I drive you too much insane? 1524 01:15:28,725 --> 01:15:30,305 No, not at all. Did I drive you? 1525 01:15:30,405 --> 01:15:32,385 DASSI: Slightly, at times. (LAUGHS) 1526 01:15:32,485 --> 01:15:34,265 -In regards to what? -DASSI: No, you really didn't. 1527 01:15:34,365 --> 01:15:35,905 You were actually really good. 1528 01:15:36,005 --> 01:15:37,784 NICOLE: How are you feeling about the exposure and all that? 1529 01:15:37,884 --> 01:15:40,384 Going out, people are just gonna, like, recognise you. 1530 01:15:40,484 --> 01:15:42,484 That, for me, is something I'm struggling with. 1531 01:15:43,244 --> 01:15:45,023 I'm not ready to step into the community, 1532 01:15:45,123 --> 01:15:46,943 simply because trial's not finished yet. 1533 01:15:47,043 --> 01:15:48,263 There's no verdict. 1534 01:15:48,363 --> 01:15:50,343 We still have, you know, all those days of waiting. 1535 01:15:50,443 --> 01:15:53,182 Even if I stay home and far away from people as much as possible, 1536 01:15:53,282 --> 01:15:55,442 it's just a whole different level of exposure. 1537 01:15:56,522 --> 01:15:57,782 It's not that, like, I'm embarrassed 1538 01:15:57,882 --> 01:15:59,142 of what's out there, because I'm not. 1539 01:15:59,242 --> 01:16:01,222 It's just the way that Ian has said stuff 1540 01:16:01,322 --> 01:16:04,661 and the way it's come out in the media, it just feels so... 1541 01:16:04,761 --> 01:16:06,761 -DASSI: Horrible. -..not the truth. 1542 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,060 So, what, do I just say, like, goodbye to you now? 1543 01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:15,500 -This is so weird. -DASSI: I know. 1544 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,060 -This is really, really strange. -DASSI: Like, goodbye. 1545 01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:18,339 I know. 1546 01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:21,219 -OK, well, actually, goodbye. -(LAUGHS) 1547 01:16:21,319 --> 01:16:23,779 -Actually goodbye. -Yeah. Love ya. 1548 01:16:23,879 --> 01:16:25,939 -Hug? -I guess so. (LAUGHS) 1549 01:16:26,039 --> 01:16:27,338 -Love you. -We actually never hug. 1550 01:16:27,438 --> 01:16:28,938 Will you open the open the gate for me? 1551 01:16:29,038 --> 01:16:31,058 -It should be open, I think. -Oh, that's right. 1552 01:16:31,158 --> 01:16:32,818 NICOLE: OK. See you. 1553 01:16:32,918 --> 01:16:34,917 (CAR STARTS) 1554 01:16:42,836 --> 01:16:45,196 (PENSIVE MUSIC) 1555 01:17:04,354 --> 01:17:08,693 ELLY: On Saturday night, I was lying here in bed, 1556 01:17:08,793 --> 01:17:13,153 and I felt this...this... 1557 01:17:14,873 --> 01:17:19,452 ..huge, um, breath come out of me, 1558 01:17:19,552 --> 01:17:24,831 and I sat up and I said, "Danny, I...I killed the baby." 1559 01:17:31,751 --> 01:17:34,530 We went straight to Cabrini. 1560 01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:36,830 They had called in a specialist. 1561 01:17:38,110 --> 01:17:40,649 She just said, "I'm sorry." 1562 01:17:40,749 --> 01:17:44,769 I remember staring at this light, 1563 01:17:44,869 --> 01:17:49,808 and as she was telling me the news, this light just dimmed. 1564 01:17:49,908 --> 01:17:53,428 I remember just thinking, "That's...that's...that's it." 1565 01:17:54,708 --> 01:17:57,827 All this... (SIGHS) 1566 01:18:01,067 --> 01:18:03,707 Like, this whole trial and... 1567 01:18:05,266 --> 01:18:07,566 This...this little... 1568 01:18:07,666 --> 01:18:11,726 You know, this little... you know, fighter 1569 01:18:11,826 --> 01:18:13,445 I felt that I had in me, 1570 01:18:13,545 --> 01:18:16,625 this little warrior, tried so hard... 1571 01:18:20,545 --> 01:18:24,264 ..but it was... it was just too much. 1572 01:18:28,184 --> 01:18:33,603 I told myself that that's a trial baby 1573 01:18:33,703 --> 01:18:39,282 and now it will never be affected by Leifer again. 1574 01:18:39,382 --> 01:18:41,782 (POIGNANT MUSIC) 1575 01:18:57,820 --> 01:19:00,700 (POIGNANT MUSIC CONTINUES) 1576 01:19:20,137 --> 01:19:22,677 DASSI: This past little break from the court 1577 01:19:22,777 --> 01:19:24,977 grieving Elly's loss. 1578 01:19:27,097 --> 01:19:30,716 Spoke with my therapist yesterday 1579 01:19:30,816 --> 01:19:35,756 and we're looking at an admission to hospital. 1580 01:19:35,856 --> 01:19:38,655 How much more can a person survive? 1581 01:19:40,015 --> 01:19:42,255 I don't know and I don't want to find out. 1582 01:19:45,854 --> 01:19:48,594 NICOLE: We were told that when the verdict arrives, 1583 01:19:48,694 --> 01:19:50,854 there is no time for anyone to travel in. 1584 01:19:52,014 --> 01:19:54,113 So if we actually do want to be there for the verdict, 1585 01:19:54,213 --> 01:19:56,113 we have to be in close proximity to the court, 1586 01:19:56,213 --> 01:19:58,513 and we just have to sit and wait. 1587 01:19:58,613 --> 01:20:00,792 Wouldn't it be good if it comes before the weekend, though? 1588 01:20:00,892 --> 01:20:03,432 To go through a weekend waiting till Monday... 1589 01:20:03,532 --> 01:20:05,512 DASSI: It's so quick. Two and a half days. 1590 01:20:05,612 --> 01:20:07,072 I would say that's so quick. 1591 01:20:07,172 --> 01:20:09,591 When they're convicting someone of something so serious, 1592 01:20:09,691 --> 01:20:11,431 naming someone a paedophile, 1593 01:20:11,531 --> 01:20:13,831 that's a big thing for people to do, 1594 01:20:13,931 --> 01:20:15,431 so they take their time to do that. 1595 01:20:15,531 --> 01:20:18,710 The scariest part is, if she's not guilty in all 27 charges, 1596 01:20:18,810 --> 01:20:20,510 she goes back to Israel that day. 1597 01:20:20,610 --> 01:20:22,430 There is nothing to keep her back here for. 1598 01:20:22,530 --> 01:20:23,710 There's nothing that we can do. 1599 01:20:23,810 --> 01:20:26,069 And there's nothing we can do, nuh. 1600 01:20:26,169 --> 01:20:27,469 That's too scary to think about. 1601 01:20:27,569 --> 01:20:29,109 I literally cannot put my mind to that. 1602 01:20:29,209 --> 01:20:31,069 I can't process that. 1603 01:20:31,169 --> 01:20:33,189 If Leifer was found not guilty, she would be going back 1604 01:20:33,289 --> 01:20:35,268 to her community in Israel and saying, 1605 01:20:35,368 --> 01:20:37,028 "I've been found not guilty." 1606 01:20:37,128 --> 01:20:39,868 People trusting her with their daughters again. 1607 01:20:39,968 --> 01:20:43,347 Definitely allowed doubts to creep in, 1608 01:20:43,447 --> 01:20:46,567 especially with the way that my mental health was. 1609 01:20:48,207 --> 01:20:51,406 We did not hear any verdict today. 1610 01:20:54,646 --> 01:20:56,926 I am back in hospital... 1611 01:20:58,885 --> 01:21:02,525 ..in the same ward that I was in 11 years ago. 1612 01:21:04,565 --> 01:21:08,964 And I've got an evening ahead of rising panic. 1613 01:21:12,484 --> 01:21:14,104 PENNY: The jury's just asked a question. 1614 01:21:14,204 --> 01:21:17,343 They want some direction on reaching a unanimous verdict. 1615 01:21:17,443 --> 01:21:19,823 There is what they've described as a deadlock. 1616 01:21:19,923 --> 01:21:21,863 They really are struggling, 1617 01:21:21,963 --> 01:21:24,502 and I have seen a jury being discharged 1618 01:21:24,602 --> 01:21:26,802 'cause they simply couldn't come to a resolution. 1619 01:21:27,802 --> 01:21:31,022 So what the judge has given is a perseverance direction. 1620 01:21:31,122 --> 01:21:33,461 DASSI: Did you see any of their faces when they walked in? 1621 01:21:33,561 --> 01:21:36,261 -Yeah, they looked sorry. -Yeah, I know. 1622 01:21:36,361 --> 01:21:37,661 But I don't know what 'sorry' means. 1623 01:21:37,761 --> 01:21:39,021 "Sorry that I'm gonna deliver a non-guilty?" 1624 01:21:39,121 --> 01:21:40,420 -Yeah, exactly. -"Sorry that I'm gonna..." 1625 01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:41,940 -That's what I got as well. -I was trying to... 1626 01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:43,100 -They looked, like, sad at us. -Yeah. 1627 01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:44,900 Ian Hill's made it a lot closer 1628 01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:47,380 than a lot of us anticipated it would be, 1629 01:21:47,480 --> 01:21:49,339 and done a really good job 1630 01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,179 in placing doubt in the minds of the jurors. 1631 01:21:52,279 --> 01:21:54,179 PENNY: He's a fantastic barrister. 1632 01:21:54,279 --> 01:21:58,218 It makes it easy to see how he could get them 1633 01:21:58,318 --> 01:22:01,418 to come back with a not guilty verdict. 1634 01:22:01,518 --> 01:22:04,098 We'll wait, hope. 1635 01:22:04,198 --> 01:22:06,337 Hope dies. Go home. 1636 01:22:06,437 --> 01:22:09,017 I'm just, like, on the verge of tears. I don't want to talk. 1637 01:22:09,117 --> 01:22:11,057 NICOLE: Yeah, fair enough. 1638 01:22:11,157 --> 01:22:12,976 I can't imagine going through another weekend 1639 01:22:13,076 --> 01:22:15,136 of this kind of uncertainty. 1640 01:22:15,236 --> 01:22:17,656 One weekend was bad enough, 1641 01:22:17,756 --> 01:22:20,496 and then the whole next week and then another weekend. 1642 01:22:20,596 --> 01:22:22,135 And they're locked away in this room 1643 01:22:22,235 --> 01:22:26,175 where they're not coming to a decision for nine days. 1644 01:22:26,275 --> 01:22:28,615 It was torture. 1645 01:22:28,715 --> 01:22:31,634 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1646 01:22:42,193 --> 01:22:43,733 WOMAN ON PHONE: I just got the call. 1647 01:22:43,833 --> 01:22:45,253 They've got verdicts on everything. 1648 01:22:45,353 --> 01:22:47,212 We're reconvening at 3:45. 1649 01:22:47,312 --> 01:22:48,572 -Speak to you soon. -OK, OK. 1650 01:22:48,672 --> 01:22:49,932 -They've got... -'Bye. 1651 01:22:50,032 --> 01:22:51,072 ELLY: They've got verdicts on everything. 1652 01:22:51,152 --> 01:22:53,492 Guys, guys, guys. What time is it? 1653 01:22:53,592 --> 01:22:54,811 It's happening. 2:45. 1654 01:22:54,911 --> 01:22:56,691 We've got to wait another 40 minutes. 1655 01:22:56,791 --> 01:22:58,931 (ELLY EXCLAIMS) 1656 01:22:59,031 --> 01:23:00,811 (DASSI MUMBLES) We're getting a verdict today. 1657 01:23:00,911 --> 01:23:02,770 -We're getting a verdict today. -We're getting a verdict. 1658 01:23:02,870 --> 01:23:04,010 Actually getting a verdict today. 1659 01:23:04,110 --> 01:23:07,330 -Verdicts on everything. -Verdicts on everything. 1660 01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:11,489 DASSI: We're sitting just gripping each other's hands, 1661 01:23:11,589 --> 01:23:14,369 waiting for the court to quieten down, 1662 01:23:14,469 --> 01:23:17,169 for the judge to come in, for the jury to come in, 1663 01:23:17,269 --> 01:23:21,068 for the judge to ask the jury what their verdict is. 1664 01:23:22,908 --> 01:23:25,768 First five charges belong to Nicole. 1665 01:23:25,868 --> 01:23:30,767 And the jury foreman stood up and said, "Not guilty." 1666 01:23:30,867 --> 01:23:35,926 And then that continued for the second and the third, 1667 01:23:36,026 --> 01:23:38,906 for the fourth, the fifth. 1668 01:23:40,146 --> 01:23:42,946 None of Nicole's charges have been found guilty. 1669 01:23:43,945 --> 01:23:47,325 It was such a shock, but it didn't really settle in, 1670 01:23:47,425 --> 01:23:48,605 probably, till that night. 1671 01:23:48,705 --> 01:23:51,205 Something kicked in to be strong at that point 1672 01:23:51,305 --> 01:23:54,164 and not break down in that room. 1673 01:23:54,264 --> 01:23:57,604 And then they read charge six, and it's guilty. 1674 01:23:57,704 --> 01:23:59,364 And then, you know, it was guilty and guilty, 1675 01:23:59,464 --> 01:24:01,843 and then a couple of not guilties thrown in there again. 1676 01:24:01,943 --> 01:24:04,163 And to me it didn't make any sense, 1677 01:24:04,263 --> 01:24:08,342 but it was such a huge, huge mix of emotions. 1678 01:24:10,902 --> 01:24:13,522 NEWSREADER: 15 years after the former Elsternwick principal 1679 01:24:13,622 --> 01:24:15,042 fled to Israel, 1680 01:24:15,142 --> 01:24:18,641 Malka Leifer is tonight a convicted child sex offender 1681 01:24:18,741 --> 01:24:21,881 guilty of 18 charges, including six of rape. 1682 01:24:21,981 --> 01:24:23,881 REPORTER: She was found guilty of eight charges 1683 01:24:23,981 --> 01:24:25,920 relating to youngest sister Elly. 1684 01:24:26,020 --> 01:24:29,240 There were 14 charges linked to middle sibling Dassi, 1685 01:24:29,340 --> 01:24:31,520 the verdict guilty on 10. 1686 01:24:31,620 --> 01:24:34,759 But for eldest sister Nicole, a unanimous not guilty 1687 01:24:34,859 --> 01:24:38,299 on the five charges where she was the alleged victim. 1688 01:24:39,419 --> 01:24:42,078 JUDGE: Mrs Leifer, can you please say yes 1689 01:24:42,178 --> 01:24:44,238 if you can see and hear me... 1690 01:24:44,338 --> 01:24:45,478 LEIFER: Yes. 1691 01:24:45,578 --> 01:24:49,118 JUDGE: ..that your total effective sentence 1692 01:24:49,218 --> 01:24:53,077 is 15 years imprisonment. 1693 01:24:53,177 --> 01:24:57,417 I fix a non-parole period of 11 and a half years. 1694 01:24:58,696 --> 01:25:01,996 She abused the three of us for so many years, 1695 01:25:02,096 --> 01:25:06,995 and while today's verdict may not properly reflect that, 1696 01:25:07,095 --> 01:25:10,555 she is guilty and she will be held accountable. 1697 01:25:10,655 --> 01:25:13,195 Justice was served today. 1698 01:25:13,295 --> 01:25:16,394 We did our best. We did our best. 1699 01:25:16,494 --> 01:25:19,594 Today we can start to take that power back 1700 01:25:19,694 --> 01:25:22,453 that she stole from us as children. 1701 01:25:24,853 --> 01:25:27,033 REPORTER: Will your client be appealing, Mr Hill? 1702 01:25:27,133 --> 01:25:29,913 IAN: There's nothing to say at this stage. 1703 01:25:30,013 --> 01:25:32,152 REPORTER: Is this what you expected, Mr Hill? 1704 01:25:32,252 --> 01:25:35,032 NICOLE: Guys, I'm really... Really, I'm OK. 1705 01:25:35,132 --> 01:25:37,432 ELLY: Your strength makes me feel OK. 1706 01:25:37,532 --> 01:25:38,472 -I prepared myself. -DASSI: I know. 1707 01:25:38,572 --> 01:25:39,751 But we also know that she was guilty. 1708 01:25:39,851 --> 01:25:41,911 NICOLE: But Ian worked so bloody hard. 1709 01:25:42,011 --> 01:25:43,591 He wanted so badly to discredit me, 1710 01:25:43,691 --> 01:25:44,951 and that's why I prepared myself. 1711 01:25:45,051 --> 01:25:48,070 I did. So I'm OK. 1712 01:25:48,170 --> 01:25:49,550 NICOLE: Now I'm getting fricking sorry messages. 1713 01:25:49,650 --> 01:25:50,550 I don't want that. 1714 01:25:50,650 --> 01:25:51,910 Like, it's just not necessary. 1715 01:25:52,010 --> 01:25:54,550 We just never thought that we would reach, like, 1716 01:25:54,650 --> 01:25:56,029 this day, like, today. 1717 01:25:56,129 --> 01:25:58,389 -This is surreal, this moment. -It is. 1718 01:25:58,489 --> 01:26:00,229 What do we want to do? (LAUGHS) 1719 01:26:00,329 --> 01:26:02,789 -We're so, like, in shock. -ELLY: Someone needs to... 1720 01:26:02,889 --> 01:26:04,828 Someone else needs to make decisions right now. 1721 01:26:04,928 --> 01:26:06,348 NICOLE: Wherever we are, we'll be together. 1722 01:26:06,448 --> 01:26:07,548 We can be in a hotel. 1723 01:26:07,648 --> 01:26:09,668 I don't know. I can't go in a car yet. 1724 01:26:09,768 --> 01:26:11,588 I'll fricking jump out the window. 1725 01:26:11,688 --> 01:26:13,787 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1726 01:26:13,887 --> 01:26:17,107 It was a very difficult judgement for Nicole 1727 01:26:17,207 --> 01:26:20,586 and I think you can still see that in her eyes. 1728 01:26:20,686 --> 01:26:25,466 The judge in the Leifer case chose to exclude some evidence. 1729 01:26:25,566 --> 01:26:29,145 The history of the school itself and prior allegations 1730 01:26:29,245 --> 01:26:30,665 that the school had ignored, 1731 01:26:30,765 --> 01:26:35,885 and the story of Leifer being scuttled out of the country. 1732 01:26:37,364 --> 01:26:39,664 The verdict in Nicole's allegations 1733 01:26:39,764 --> 01:26:40,784 would have been different 1734 01:26:40,884 --> 01:26:42,884 had all that information been available. 1735 01:26:46,523 --> 01:26:48,623 DASSI: 1736 01:26:48,723 --> 01:26:50,943 I know. I know that. But she's got something. 1737 01:26:51,043 --> 01:26:53,482 She did get a win. Her win was with me. 1738 01:26:56,882 --> 01:26:58,182 I put up a Facebook post 1739 01:26:58,282 --> 01:27:00,822 so people would just stop telling me how sorry they are. 1740 01:27:00,922 --> 01:27:02,501 WOMAN ON PHONE: Apparently, ABC reported 1741 01:27:02,601 --> 01:27:06,341 that Adass issued a public apology to the victims 1742 01:27:06,441 --> 01:27:07,541 and commended how brave they were. 1743 01:27:07,641 --> 01:27:08,741 DASSI: Oh, wow. 1744 01:27:08,841 --> 01:27:10,180 But why didn't they give us their support 1745 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:12,020 while the whole thing was going on? 1746 01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,300 Yeah, yeah, it's a completely... 1747 01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,500 DASSI: "Oh, my gosh, she's actually guilty. 1748 01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,619 "Oh, we should probably say something now. 1749 01:27:18,719 --> 01:27:22,179 "Not when we send her away or pay for her tickets." 1750 01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:24,739 So genuine, so authentic. 1751 01:27:24,839 --> 01:27:26,838 (POIGNANT MUSIC) 1752 01:27:35,677 --> 01:27:37,537 ELLY: What's the overriding feelings 1753 01:27:37,637 --> 01:27:39,137 that you guys are feeling now? 1754 01:27:39,237 --> 01:27:41,237 NICOLE: I'm just worried that no-one believes me. 1755 01:27:42,916 --> 01:27:43,776 (NOTIFICATION CHIMES) 1756 01:27:43,876 --> 01:27:45,216 DASSI: 'Australian Jewish News'. 1757 01:27:45,316 --> 01:27:46,416 Do you want to talk to them? 1758 01:27:46,516 --> 01:27:49,056 Um, they can call tomorrow. There's no rush. 1759 01:27:49,156 --> 01:27:50,615 They don't put out their paper till Wednesday, 1760 01:27:50,715 --> 01:27:52,855 so no rush for them. 1761 01:27:52,955 --> 01:27:54,895 DASSI: 'The New York Times' just sent an email. 1762 01:27:54,995 --> 01:27:56,695 NICOLE: Just send my number if you want me to... 1763 01:27:56,795 --> 01:27:58,015 I'll just forward you the email, Chams, 1764 01:27:58,115 --> 01:27:59,494 and then you can respond to them. 1765 01:27:59,594 --> 01:28:01,594 OK. 1766 01:28:01,994 --> 01:28:04,134 -ELLY: Is there more pizza? -There's more pizza. 1767 01:28:04,234 --> 01:28:06,734 It's kind of just small, small bite-size. 1768 01:28:06,834 --> 01:28:08,533 Chams, do you want some pizza? 1769 01:28:08,633 --> 01:28:11,693 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 1770 01:28:11,793 --> 01:28:14,573 -No. -Just to clink glasses? 1771 01:28:14,673 --> 01:28:15,852 -OK. -OK. 1772 01:28:15,952 --> 01:28:18,872 (REFLECTIVE MUSIC) 1773 01:28:23,552 --> 01:28:25,971 To guilty, guys. 1774 01:28:26,071 --> 01:28:28,091 NICOLE: I held it together pretty much until that night, 1775 01:28:28,191 --> 01:28:30,571 when I had a therapy session late that night, 1776 01:28:30,671 --> 01:28:33,450 and I think that was, like, the one and only time 1777 01:28:33,550 --> 01:28:35,130 she ever offered to keep her phone on. 1778 01:28:35,230 --> 01:28:38,050 I said no, because I wouldn't impose that on anyone. 1779 01:28:38,150 --> 01:28:40,689 DASSI: I think for any victim that gets not guilty, 1780 01:28:40,789 --> 01:28:42,089 it's not an ending. 1781 01:28:42,189 --> 01:28:44,189 There's just no closure. 1782 01:28:45,829 --> 01:28:48,488 I feel relieved because she'd been found guilty. 1783 01:28:48,588 --> 01:28:49,928 There was definitely that. 1784 01:28:50,028 --> 01:28:53,528 Then devastation because Nicole hadn't got justice. 1785 01:28:53,628 --> 01:28:55,728 And how do we walk away from that, 1786 01:28:55,828 --> 01:28:57,987 not being able to walk away from it together? 1787 01:29:04,147 --> 01:29:05,846 Receiving not guilty has made sure 1788 01:29:05,946 --> 01:29:08,086 that she will be in me for the rest of my life, 1789 01:29:08,186 --> 01:29:10,326 like, we will still be interconnected because of that. 1790 01:29:10,426 --> 01:29:12,046 No matter how much I try and move away from her, 1791 01:29:12,146 --> 01:29:15,245 my need to prove that she did that, 1792 01:29:15,345 --> 01:29:17,525 it just means that she'll be in my head, 1793 01:29:17,625 --> 01:29:19,965 goodness knows, maybe the rest of my life. 1794 01:29:20,065 --> 01:29:22,344 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1795 01:29:26,464 --> 01:29:31,563 How could something so traumatising for so many years 1796 01:29:31,663 --> 01:29:34,883 fighting for justice turn out like this? 1797 01:29:34,983 --> 01:29:36,983 I don't know how to go on. 1798 01:29:38,942 --> 01:29:44,522 Getting justice is something that has kept me alive. 1799 01:29:44,622 --> 01:29:48,861 I don't know how to just take the not guilty. 1800 01:29:50,501 --> 01:29:53,961 There has been no minute, not waking or sleeping, 1801 01:29:54,061 --> 01:29:56,640 that I have been able 1802 01:29:56,740 --> 01:30:01,180 to escape the pain of the verdict. 1803 01:30:03,179 --> 01:30:05,499 -(TRAFFIC HUBBUB) -(TRAM BELL RINGS) 1804 01:30:21,217 --> 01:30:24,057 (INDISTINCT CHATTER AND LAUGHTER) 1805 01:30:27,936 --> 01:30:29,196 DASSI: The response from the book 1806 01:30:29,296 --> 01:30:31,716 has been overwhelmingly positive. 1807 01:30:31,816 --> 01:30:33,516 DASSI: Thank you so much for coming this morning. 1808 01:30:33,616 --> 01:30:36,035 WOMAN: Oh, look, you were the highlight for me 1809 01:30:36,135 --> 01:30:37,395 coming to this festival. 1810 01:30:37,495 --> 01:30:40,195 -Best of luck to you. -Thank you so much. 1811 01:30:40,295 --> 01:30:42,115 To know that words that I've written, 1812 01:30:42,215 --> 01:30:46,554 people have either been educated from, inspired by, 1813 01:30:46,654 --> 01:30:48,554 or in some ways it resonates with them 1814 01:30:48,654 --> 01:30:50,634 and they feel less alone in their journey, 1815 01:30:50,734 --> 01:30:53,313 I mean, that's such an amazing thing to hear. 1816 01:30:53,413 --> 01:30:56,333 So there's definitely a sense of pride. 1817 01:30:57,613 --> 01:31:00,632 (ELLY HUMS TUNEFULLY) 1818 01:31:00,732 --> 01:31:04,432 ELLY: A month after verdict, we fell pregnant. 1819 01:31:04,532 --> 01:31:07,312 The pregnancy was high risk. 1820 01:31:07,412 --> 01:31:10,751 There were many complications throughout. 1821 01:31:10,851 --> 01:31:13,911 Our little daughter came into the world quite early. 1822 01:31:14,011 --> 01:31:17,750 She fought all the way through NICU and special care, 1823 01:31:17,850 --> 01:31:21,350 and she's home with us now and continues to thrive 1824 01:31:21,450 --> 01:31:25,189 and grow and give us so much joy. 1825 01:31:25,289 --> 01:31:27,289 Ah! 1826 01:31:31,769 --> 01:31:33,788 NICOLE: I think right now, where I'm holding, 1827 01:31:33,888 --> 01:31:36,908 which is a year and 11 weeks since the verdict - 1828 01:31:37,008 --> 01:31:40,548 I'm still counting because it's still that significant to me - 1829 01:31:40,648 --> 01:31:42,787 I think I'm in a much better place. 1830 01:31:42,887 --> 01:31:47,267 A few months after, some kind of fire reawakened inside me 1831 01:31:47,367 --> 01:31:50,226 and I decided that Malka Leifer is just not going to shut me up. 1832 01:31:50,326 --> 01:31:52,626 So I opened up a TikTok account. 1833 01:31:52,726 --> 01:31:55,186 It just grew, and the amount of people that told me 1834 01:31:55,286 --> 01:31:58,105 it resonated with them gave me more confidence to keep growing. 1835 01:31:58,205 --> 01:31:59,985 I realised that I do have an ability, 1836 01:32:00,085 --> 01:32:03,625 and I know I have had for years, to be able to support others, 1837 01:32:03,725 --> 01:32:06,584 before I eventually, hopefully, study law next year. 1838 01:32:06,684 --> 01:32:10,064 So I am definitely in a stronger, better place 1839 01:32:10,164 --> 01:32:12,644 than I have been for a while. 1840 01:32:14,963 --> 01:32:18,343 TED: My view about Dassi has only been reinforced. 1841 01:32:18,443 --> 01:32:23,222 She's a remarkable young woman, as are her two sisters. 1842 01:32:23,322 --> 01:32:27,062 They've been through hell, they've survived. 1843 01:32:27,162 --> 01:32:29,162 All power to them. 1844 01:32:30,322 --> 01:32:31,701 DANIELLE: If it wasn't for the sisters 1845 01:32:31,801 --> 01:32:33,941 making as much noise as they did, 1846 01:32:34,041 --> 01:32:36,341 Leifer would still be in Israel. 1847 01:32:36,441 --> 01:32:40,180 They are the most resilient, courageous women 1848 01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:42,800 that I've ever had the honour of knowing. 1849 01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:47,779 MATAN: I really admire them for taking that step forward, 1850 01:32:47,879 --> 01:32:51,539 for being role models for other victims. 1851 01:32:51,639 --> 01:32:55,459 (AIRY VOCAL MUSIC) 136802

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