Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,360
Previously on The Hack...
2
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,800
I'm friends with
Clare Rewcastle Brown,
3
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,240
the journalist and sister-in-law
of Gordon Brown.
4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:16,760
'He's leaning in.'
5
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,440
Murdoch's ambition is limitless,
but he's overstepped here.
6
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,880
Part of a new operation,
Operation Weeting.
7
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,960
We're investigating
allegations of phone hacking.
8
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,520
Contact of mine in the force
has been put on it. He's feeding me.
9
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,440
DAVE: This fell into your lap, OK?
10
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,600
NICK: 'This could get you
in serious trouble.'
11
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,880
Hello.
'Dave, it's Mike at The Sun.'
12
00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,720
Give Panorama, Mike Sullivan,
13
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,600
Nick Davies anything
about our cases,
14
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,440
and you'll be strung up
for all to see.
15
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,360
NICK: I was in the database.
News Of The World, April 14th, 2002.
16
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:47,560
Milly Dowler.
17
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,520
AMELIA: 'Jingle says there is a page
on Dowler in Marquez' notebooks.'
18
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,880
The News Of The World
will not be forgiven for this.
19
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,560
I was being drawn to stories
again and again with the same theme.
20
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,560
A deep-seated urge to hit back
at anybody at all
21
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,640
who takes power and abuses it.
22
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,960
WOMAN: Our guest now joining us
from the newsroom of The Guardian
23
00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:11,520
is Nick Davies,
award-winning journalist
24
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,640
who has brought phone hacking
into the light.
25
00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,160
Hi.
Now, Nick Davies...
26
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,560
could you have predicted the furore
27
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,080
that the Milly Dowler case
seems to have caused?
28
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:24,240
Predicted? No.
29
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,880
But I do think it speaks well
for the British public,
30
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,960
for the world public,
that a furore has been provoked.
31
00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:34,960
You have Rupert Murdoch
firmly on the ropes.
32
00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,120
I have to say, I'm horrified that
they closed the News Of The World.
33
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,680
Good journalists
have lost their jobs.
34
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,520
I believe this was a cynical move
on Murdoch's part
35
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,080
to help aid his capture of BSkyB.
36
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,440
'And what do you think it is about
the Milly Dowler case
37
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,880
'that has had such an impact?'
38
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,680
Well, what we discovered
39
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,560
was that during the period
of her disappearance,
40
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,200
News Of The World
were using a private investigator
41
00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,080
to listen to her voicemails,
42
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,680
so that, in itself, is horrid,
deeply personal stuff.
43
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,480
Friends and family still thought
she may have run away
44
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,240
and were imploring her to come home.
45
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,000
The voicemail filled up,
46
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,680
which is why
they deleted the messages.
47
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,400
Now, friends and family
48
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,079
who had previously heard
the message, voicemail, full
49
00:02:16,079 --> 00:02:17,720
were surprised by this,
50
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,920
and the presumption became
that Milly was still alive.
51
00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,640
'I guess we all wanna know
whether Rupert Murdoch will feature
52
00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,840
'in front of your Leveson Inquiry
and what...' Ah. Ah.
53
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,640
Well, before Leveson, actually,
Rupert Murdoch is due to speak
54
00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:33,040
at the House of Commons
Media Select Committee.
55
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,520
We want to get answers from him
56
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,840
as to what he knew
about phone hacking,
57
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,079
widespread practice
at his newspaper,
58
00:02:39,079 --> 00:02:42,680
when he knew about it,
and why he didn't act.
59
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,440
'Nick Davies,
thank you for joining us.'
60
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,800
Thank you for having me.
61
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,840
Whether Rupert bails on us,
I don't know. You could compel him.
62
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,320
The thing you need to ask is
63
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,840
can you truly compel Murdoch
to do anything?
64
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,800
Are we singing Happy Birthday?
65
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,600
So, who's getting to ask
the first question? Well, I do.
66
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,360
Though Nick is intent
on writing it for me.
67
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,560
GLASS CLINKING
I think we should sing.
68
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,200
No. Happy Birthday
is a terrible song.
69
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,240
Nick thinks
Happy Birthday's fascistic.
70
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,000
It is culturally fascistic -
71
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,680
everyone has to sing the same song
on their bloody birthday.
72
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,480
Where's the individuality?
Well, we could sing, erm...
73
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,000
What's the one where we count
the candles on the birthday cake?
74
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,360
Have we the energy?
Oi. Well, speech.
75
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,480
At least we deserve a speech.
Yes, yes. On your feet.
76
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,920
Er, no. But, OK, I would like
to thank you all for coming.
77
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,920
And I would like to remind you
we have work to do.
78
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,720
The Select Committee...
Boo!
79
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,360
The Select Committee is our chance,
with Murdoch on the stand...
80
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,800
And I won't let you down.
81
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,079
No, no, no, Tom, I'm not saying...
Maybe I should have let you retire.
82
00:03:47,079 --> 00:03:49,160
You were gonna retire?
Move to Belgium.
83
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:50,760
Ah. Chocolate.
84
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,520
And then with Leveson making sure
we're fully prepared...
85
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,720
Nick... Nick, today, we celebrate.
86
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,720
A prep session would've been
much more preferable to a birthday.
87
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,760
Not only are the songs fascistic,
88
00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,040
but Nick thinks birthdays
are narcissistic.
89
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,360
He likes to work.
True.
90
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,640
How nice, then,
that none of his friends came,
91
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,240
just the people he works with.
92
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,040
Now you're treading a very fine line
between insulting... Sod this.
93
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,280
# Happy birthday to you... #
Oh, God.
94
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,959
# Happy birthday to you... #
Oh, God.
95
00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:21,839
# Happy birthday, dear Nick
96
00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,680
# Happy Birthday to you. #
97
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,160
CAMERA CLICKS
98
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,400
CAMERA CLICKS
99
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,760
Hi.
Hi.
100
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,720
So, good news and bad news.
101
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,560
Good news, it's all cooking nicely
for the Select Committee.
102
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,040
The bad news, you are gonna have
to give evidence at Leveson.
103
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,320
It needs your heft. It needs...
104
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,720
Look, Alan's house
may have been compromised. What?
105
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,080
He hired someone
to sweep his house for bugs.
106
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,800
That person subcontracted it.
107
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,280
The person
they subcontracted it to...
108
00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,080
Worked for Rees?
..was an associate of Rees.
109
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,000
How do you know?
I can't tell you.
110
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,920
But I know Rees has been bragging
about how he knows the bug sweeper.
111
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,560
Are you sure?
112
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,200
Ask Alan about the socks
he keeps under the piano.
113
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,880
What socks?
114
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,680
Oh, Christ.
It's true?!
115
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,360
I like, erm...
116
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,200
I get a better feel for the piano
if I play barefoot.
117
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,159
Alan, you do not have
good hiring practices.
118
00:05:34,159 --> 00:05:36,120
Seems possible to claim.
119
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,600
You hired someone
to debug your house,
120
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,440
and instead,
they may have compromised...
121
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,040
Are my children in danger?
122
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,720
Dave doesn't think so.
Don't know about you and me.
123
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,800
We've got Murdoch on the stand.
124
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,880
They know they're being hunted.
125
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,840
Cornered animal,
the most vicious animal of all.
126
00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:56,400
Fuck.
127
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,480
SIGHS
128
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:03,800
I thought the worst of it was over.
129
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:06,800
HORN BEEPS
130
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,440
The day after Cameron announced
the Leveson Inquiry
131
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,760
into phone hacking,
the CMS Select Committee
132
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,760
issued an order summoning
Rupert Murdoch and his son James
133
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,040
to attend parliament
on the 19th of July
134
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,320
to basically explain themselves.
135
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,600
The significance of this moment
was not lost on any of us.
136
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,160
If we asked the right questions,
we could ensnare them,
137
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,320
both of them, father and son.
138
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,680
DOOR OPENS
139
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,920
WHITTINGDALE: OK, everyone,
settle now, please.
140
00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,000
We are now in session.
141
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,200
Mr Watson
will ask the first question.
142
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,960
Mr Murdoch Sr, Mr Murdoch Jr,
143
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,400
good afternoon,
thanks for coming in today.
144
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,520
My first question
is for Mr Murdoch Sr.
145
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,680
You have repeatedly stated
146
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,120
that News Corp has zero tolerance
to wrongdoing by employees.
147
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:19,640
Is that right?
148
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,080
Is that me?
149
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,400
Yes.
150
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,400
In October 2010,
did you still believe it to be true
151
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,240
when you made your Thatcher speech
and you said,
152
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,120
"Let me be clear. We will
vigorously pursue the truth,
153
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,960
"and we will not tolerate
wrongdoing"?
154
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,480
Yes.
155
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,240
So if you were not lying then,
somebody lied to you.
156
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,760
Who was it?
I don't know.
157
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,720
That is what the police
are investigating
158
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,600
and we are helping them with.
159
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,880
But you acknowledge
that you were misled?
160
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,920
Clearly.
161
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,800
If I can take you to...
WHISPERS: He's doing...
162
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,640
..2006, when Clive Goodman
was arrested
163
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,800
and subsequently convicted
of intercepting voicemails,
164
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,240
were you made aware of that?
165
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,840
I think so. I was certainly made
aware of when they were convicted.
166
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,800
And what did News International do
167
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,720
subsequent to the arrest
of Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcaire
168
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,240
to get to the facts?
169
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,240
We worked with the police
on further investigation,
170
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,760
and eventually, we appointed,
very quickly appointed,
171
00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,440
a very leading firm of lawyers
in the City
172
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,240
to investigate it further.
173
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,480
What did you personally do
to investigate that?
174
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,039
After Mr Goodman
went to prison, you...
175
00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:41,640
you were obviously concerned
about it.
176
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,880
I spoke to Mr, erm...
177
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,600
..Hinton, who told me about it.
178
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:50,840
OK.
179
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,960
In 2008, another two years,
180
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,680
why did you not dismiss
181
00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:00,280
News Of The World chief reporter
Neville Thurlbeck
182
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,720
following the Mosley case?
183
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,160
I'd never heard of him.
184
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,800
So none of your UK staff
185
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,640
drew your attention
to this serious wrongdoing,
186
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,840
even though the case received
widespread media attention?
187
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,760
I think my son can perhaps
answer that in more detail.
188
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,600
He was a lot closer to it.
189
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,680
I will come to your son in a minute.
190
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,720
Can I ask you, when did you first
meet Mr Alex Marunchak?
191
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:31,960
Mr...?
192
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,440
Alex Marunchak.
193
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,360
He worked for the company
for 25 years.
194
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,080
I don't remember meeting him.
195
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,280
I might have shaken hands
walking through the office,
196
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,400
but I don't have any memory.
197
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,440
Mr Murdoch Sr, you seem to indicate
198
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,760
that you had a rather hands-off
approach to your company.
199
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,880
Could you just give us
an illustration
200
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,520
of how often you would speak
to the editors of your newspapers?
201
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,840
For example, how often you would
speak to the editor of The Sun,
202
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,480
or to the editor
of the News Of The World.
203
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,440
Erm, very seldom.
204
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,840
Sometimes, I'd ring the editor
of the News Of The World
205
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,640
on a Saturday night and say,
"Have you got any news tonight?"
206
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,960
But it was just to keep in touch.
207
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:21,160
Well, I'm intrigued as to how
these conversations might go.
208
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,360
I imagine that to the editor
of the News Of The World,
209
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,000
it might go along the lines of,
"Anything to report?"
210
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,360
And the editor
of the News Of The World says,
211
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,200
"No, no, it's been a standard week.
We paid Gordon Taylor £600,000."
212
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,520
LAUGHTER
213
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,240
He never said that last sentence.
214
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,800
Well, I mean,
surely in your weekly conversation
215
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,400
with the editor
of the News Of The World,
216
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,880
with something as big as that,
paying someone a million pounds,
217
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,200
paying someone £700,000,
218
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,800
I mean, surely you'd have expected
the editor
219
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,440
to just drop it
into the conversation at some point
220
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,360
during your weekly chat.
221
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,000
No, I'd say, "What's doing?"
222
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,040
Sorry?
I'd say, "What's doing?"
223
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,240
And what sort of response
would you expect?
224
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,920
Well, he might say, "We've got
a great story exposing X or Y,"
225
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,080
or he would say, more likely,
"Nothing special."
226
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,040
He might refer to the fact
that however many extra pages
227
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,960
were dedicated
to the football that week.
228
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,600
But he wouldn't tell you about
a million-pound pay-off?
229
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,640
Er, I just want to say that...
230
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,640
I was brought up by a father
who was not rich
231
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,240
but who was a great journalist.
232
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,880
And he, just before he died,
bought a small paper,
233
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,880
specifically in his will,
234
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,600
saying he was giving me the chance
to do good.
235
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,280
Now, I remember what he did
and what he was most proud of
236
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,000
and for which
he was hated in this country
237
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,840
by many people for many, many years,
238
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,080
which was to expose
the scandal at Gallipoli,
239
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,160
which I remain very, very proud of.
240
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,280
I think that all students of history
will be...
241
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,440
Scheming...!
CLAMOUR
242
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,320
Erm, the-the sitting is suspended.
243
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:05,840
Fuck it.
244
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,280
WOMAN ON TV:
'The defence told the court
245
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,280
'the father-of-one from Windsor
had wanted to show his revulsion
246
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,480
'over the scandal
at News International.
247
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:14,680
'He'd admitted assault...'
248
00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:17,640
If I get my hands on that fool...
He's in custody.
249
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,800
He thinks, what,
that his amateur dramatics
250
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,080
are more useful than
what we were doing in that room?
251
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,840
Good questions were asked.
Yeah, and they weren't answered.
252
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,520
And that obfuscation is important.
Or it was.
253
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,120
Oh, God, that... awful senile act
Murdoch was putting on,
254
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,880
that needed writing about.
255
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,800
But now, every paper will carry
one thing and one thing only -
256
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,320
Wendi Murdoch fighting for her man.
257
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,760
You're worrying too much, Nick.
You don't understand news cycles.
258
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,960
Well, there's still Leveson.
Yeah, nothing else but Leveson.
259
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,160
There is no air but Leveson.
If Leveson doesn't produce...
260
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,440
Then what? You gonna hide under a
tea towel for the rest of your life?
261
00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,560
Look, Nick, a serious inquiry
led by quite a clever bloke
262
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:02,720
is happening
because of your journalism.
263
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,120
It could mean regulation, ethics,
264
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,320
maybe even
an appropriate relationship
265
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,040
between press, politicians
and police.
266
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,760
When did you become
the positive one?
267
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,120
Oh, fuck off.
268
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,920
Lord Leveson's report's given us
a new press and a new Dave Cook.
269
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,720
Fuck off. Twice.
270
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,440
INAUDIBLE
271
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,600
What's the latest
with the Select Committee?
272
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,920
Get James Murdoch back in.
On what grounds?
273
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,360
Clarity on whether or not
he was told about the Neville email.
274
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,200
Why are there police officers
in our newsroom?
275
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,440
What?
276
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,440
PHONE RINGS
277
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,520
They want to talk to Amelia.
Amelia? What about?
278
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,800
They're citing
the Official Secrets Act.
279
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,360
PHONE RINGS
280
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,200
Yeah?
NICK: 'Hi. Where are you?'
281
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,440
On my way somewhere.
Can't tell you where.
282
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,400
Amelia, this is Alan.
283
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,600
'Alan, I'm just on my way
to meet someone.'
284
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,480
What's going on?
'I think you should come in.'
285
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,480
They're upstairs. They won't leave
until they've spoken to you.
286
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,120
No. No way. Not without a lawyer.
Agreed.
287
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:34,840
They don't like my biscuits,
288
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,880
and they don't like my small talk
about Chopin.
289
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,680
They're saying
they need your notebooks.
290
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,440
If you can't find your notebooks,
291
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,760
they'll get a warrant
and enter your flat.
292
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,560
They're also saying if the notebooks
aren't in your flat,
293
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:47,920
they could visit your mother.
294
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,000
Tell them I'm not going to give up
my source or my notes.
295
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,520
I'd rather go to prison.
296
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,080
Right.
297
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,080
Good.
298
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,640
I'll contact some friends,
give you some recommendations,
299
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,560
or you can find a lawyer yourself,
a human rights specialist.
300
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,720
This will get leaked, right?
I'd expect so.
301
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,840
But you might need to stay
somewhere else tonight,
302
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,840
a friend's or...
Is this what happens?
303
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,160
We were exposing them,
not the other way around.
304
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,080
It isn't what happens.
305
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,640
But it does seem to be
what's happening.
306
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,080
I'm so sorry.
307
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,760
DIALLING TONE
308
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,560
DAVE: 'Hi.'
309
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,320
Hi. How are you?
310
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:38,440
I'm OK.
311
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,880
I'm calling about Leveson.
312
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,560
Erm, I'm going to apply
to be a core participant.
313
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,040
The group, Hacked Off, I don't know
if you've... Yeah, yeah.
314
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,720
Well, they saw
the Channel 4 interview,
315
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,000
and they've been pretty insistent
that I say something.
316
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,960
Not that they're making me, erm...
317
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,360
They seem very good people.
318
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,560
'They don't really have anyone
to talk to about the Met
319
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,440
'from the inside, and I think
that's why they want me.'
320
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,480
Oh, they have you, and they have me.
321
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,080
You're doing it, too?
I registered yesterday.
322
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,040
I was gonna email.
323
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,800
'There are implications.'
324
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,720
Sure.
For the kids.
325
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,200
We'll have to speak to their school,
their friends. We could be targets.
326
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,680
Why is it worse me doing it
than you?
327
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,280
Because of Daniel Morgan,
because the case collapsed.
328
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,920
They said you were feeding lines
to a witness.
329
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,760
You don't think they're gonna use
that against you if you give evi...?
330
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,040
No, no, listen, listen, Jacqui.
331
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,400
I just want this out there,
same as you do, OK?
332
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,320
KNOCKING ON DOOR
333
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,680
Hi, Nick. Sue Akers.
I hope I'm not disturbing you.
334
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,840
Deputy Assistant Commissioner,
this is quite...
335
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,120
Call me Sue, please.
..quite the surprise, Sue.
336
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,000
I was hoping you might have a moment
to make me a cup of tea.
337
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,280
Of course I do.
Yeah, of course. Come in. Sorry.
338
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,960
Through here.
Thanks.
339
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,800
You're coming to my house,
not a short distance, on a Saturday.
340
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,319
So... whatever this is
can't be good.
341
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:27,760
I mean, I have to assume...
it can't be good at all.
342
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,640
Maybe take a seat.
Oh, God.
343
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,160
Nick, I'm afraid
that part of the story you published
344
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,080
about Milly Dowler is inaccurate.
345
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:41,560
Inaccurate how?
346
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,520
It looks likely
that the News Of The World
347
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,560
did not delete voice messages
from Milly Dowler's phone.
348
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,640
It's probable
it was the phone company.
349
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,080
That's not... I have...
I have two separate sources.
350
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,040
The network she used automatically
deleted messages after 72 hours.
351
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,880
That's how we presume
they were wiped.
352
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,080
You're using words like presumed,
probable, likely.
353
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,160
And we believe
those deletions happened
354
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,800
prior to Glenn Mulcaire being
instructed to get inside her phone.
355
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,760
Before Mulcaire?
356
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,040
Nick, I came here in person
to acknowledge all you've done.
357
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,520
Without you, Weeting is impossible.
358
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,040
Without you...
You can't know for certain
359
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,120
who deleted what.
360
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:30,840
I'm sorry. We'll be releasing
a statement to correct the record.
361
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,000
The article said messages
were deleted by journalists
362
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,440
in the first few days
after Milly's disappearance.
363
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,760
That's the only inaccuracy.
It's a large one.
364
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,280
I have a good source which tells me
365
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,400
Surrey Police turned off
the automatic deletion system
366
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,680
on the fourth day,
367
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,000
and some voicemail appeared
to have been deleted after.
368
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,200
Will they sue?
369
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,880
No.
Sure?
370
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,200
They were inside the phone?
Yes.
371
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,440
They may have
subsequently deleted messages.
372
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,760
My source tells me they did.
I believe my source.
373
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,560
Then there is too much
for them to lose in court.
374
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,960
Right.
375
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,000
Well, then we issue a retraction
and an apology. Bah!
376
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000
We made a mistake.
We may not have!
377
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,680
We made a mistake, Nick,
but there we are.
378
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,920
Ten lashes for you,
ten lashes for me.
379
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,160
Sue Akers agrees
with most of our story.
380
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,600
They did hack the phone.
381
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,200
Surrey Police did know about it,
surely. I have two priorities.
382
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,080
That they don't use this
383
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,320
to try and obfuscate the crime
they have committed.
384
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,600
A dead girl's phone was hacked.
385
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,680
And my other priority is you.
God!
386
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,800
What was that Carl Bernstein quote?
387
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,080
All great reporting
is the same thing -
388
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,440
best obtainable version
of the truth.
389
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,480
I'm gonna be absolutely monstered.
390
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,480
It serves them very well
to try and destroy your reputation.
391
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:54,720
I don't want to apologise.
392
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,240
Then don't.
393
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,160
The paper has to. You don't.
394
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:05,160
Stand up, put on
some iron underwear, and fight.
395
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,080
INHALES SHARPLY
396
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960
The monstering was high-energy.
Fuck you!
397
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,120
Doubt turned into certainty
that we had got it wrong.
398
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:17,160
Fuck you!
399
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,160
Richard Caseby,
managing editor of The Sun,
400
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,520
told the House of Lords Committee
401
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,960
that Alan Rusbridger
had sexed up his investigation
402
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,680
into phone hacking.
Fuck you!
403
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,240
Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times
404
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,360
said boldly
The Guardian had made it up.
405
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:29,760
Shame on you.
406
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,160
But beneath all...
407
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,240
..beneath all that exaggeration
and hostility
408
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,160
was the fact that I had stated
as a fact
409
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,720
something which now appeared
to be untrue.
410
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,160
I had damaged myself,
and I'd exposed The Guardian.
411
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,400
So, how are you enjoying it?
412
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,360
Yeah, it's quite a thing.
To be outside your house?
413
00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:00,040
Whatever fuel they have they're
readying to throw in the fire.
414
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,000
So why are you so calm?
Oh, I'm an optimist/pessimist.
415
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,560
I presume I'm capable
of great things
416
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,000
and yet assume
the worst's about to happen.
417
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,680
You always thought
you'd be found out.
418
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:11,840
My mother said I would be.
419
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,760
Maybe I should be
an optimist/pessimist.
420
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,240
I wouldn't recommend. It does
horrible things to your guts.
421
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,360
You're really going to New York?
422
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,240
The police haven't charged me.
I'm free to go.
423
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,880
But you could just stay here.
Yesterday's stale toast in no time.
424
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,040
The Evening Standard
425
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,200
tried to do a story about me
sleeping with my source.
426
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,120
A few weeks later, they rang
and said I was sleeping with an MP.
427
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,200
Wrong Amelia,
and she's married to him.
428
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,400
Yep.
I just... I can't.
429
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,120
I don't want to be the story.
430
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,440
No.
431
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,080
No, I'm not sure I do, either.
432
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,760
Luckily, they had a booking free
for me on Newsnight tonight,
433
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,600
and Jeremy Paxman's
a notoriously kind interviewer (!)
434
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,640
You're going on Newsnight?
Yeah.
435
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,640
Against whoever News International
think will do me most damage.
436
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,120
But, you know, steel underpants
filled with stale toast. Be fine.
437
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,560
If I don't come back...
438
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,280
I mean, I want to say something.
439
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,440
When this is all done
and they tell the story of it,
440
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,240
you know, when you look back
or write about it...
441
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,280
..don't paint me as your protege.
442
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,800
I mean, I've been at this
a long time.
443
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,600
I worked Jingle
across multiple cases for years.
444
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,080
I mean, it was your story,
445
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,280
and Milly would've never happened
without you.
446
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,440
But it wouldn't have happened
without me, either.
447
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,880
You don't need to say anything.
448
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,840
Don't let them whitewash
the other people out.
449
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,840
Don't need to say any of this.
450
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,160
I actually do.
451
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,080
You have my word.
452
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,600
OK.
453
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,200
Email me when you get there.
454
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,000
If Paxman
hasn't killed you first (!)
455
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,760
Then email my corpse.
456
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,200
Good luck, Nick.
457
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,760
NEWSNIGHT THEME
PLAYS
458
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,320
JEREMY: Tonight, who knew what and
when in the phone hacking scandal?
459
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,800
Could James Murdoch
really have been unaware?
460
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,240
Why did The Guardian claim
the News Of The World
461
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,760
deleted voice messages
when they had no evidence?
462
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,680
It was
The Guardian newspaper's claims,
463
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,800
stated as fact, that they'd been
erased by the News Of The World,
464
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,760
which triggered the shutdown
of what was once
465
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,640
the biggest-selling paper
in the English-speaking world.
466
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,840
Nick Davies, let's cut to the chase.
467
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,680
What you claim to be a fact
wasn't a fact, was it?
468
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,120
NICK ON TV:
'The story we published in July
469
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:04,400
'was squarely based
on the evidence available,
470
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,680
'correct in saying
that her voicemail was deleted.'
471
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,840
And it remains the case that
News International are not denying
472
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,400
that News Of The World journalists
473
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,360
may have been responsible
for those deletions.
474
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:17,240
Well, let's look at
the front page here. Yeah.
475
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,240
"News Of The World
hacked Milly Dowler's phone
476
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,200
"during police hunt."
Exactly.
477
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,920
Then, "The paper deleted
missing schoolgirl's voicemails,
478
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,560
"giving family false hope."
Yeah.
479
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:26,920
And you say in the copy
480
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,960
the messages
were deleted by journalists
481
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,160
in the first few days
after Milly's disappearance.
482
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,000
Everybody who was involved
in that story accepted it was true.
483
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,160
It's a very interesting thing
that... No, no, no.
484
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,000
..when that story was done...
No. No, no.
485
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,760
You're not allowing me to answer?
No, because you're not answering.
486
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,400
You're not asking
the right questions.
487
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,440
Oh, I'm sorry.
JEREMY SCOFFS
488
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,600
Everybody... involved in that story
489
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,200
accepted that that story was true.
490
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,560
And you believed it to be true.
..and continued to accept
491
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,800
until four months later...
Right, perhaps.
492
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,480
..new evidence
which was not available,
493
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,920
to everybody's surprise...
You did not report it like that.
494
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,200
..showed that one element
of that story is now in doubt.
495
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,000
It has not been proved to be untrue.
So you accept it wasn't true.
496
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,120
Jules Stenson was a features editor.
What do you say?
497
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,960
Well, the key point to this as well
is that this wasn't any old story.
498
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,560
This was a story
that was the most important story
499
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,720
in The Guardian's history.
500
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,400
It was vital that every single
element of it should be right,
501
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,680
and Nick Davies repeated
that allegation 34 times.
502
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,640
Let's get things in proportion here.
503
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,400
Your newspaper had hacked
a murdered girl's telephone.
504
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,000
What we did was indefensible,
505
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,520
not just to Milly
but to all the victims of hacking.
506
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,920
I'm not here to justify that
in any way.
507
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,160
What I am here to do, though,
is to attack the shoddy journalism
508
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,440
of The Guardian
and the shoddy journalism of Nick.
509
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,760
This-This is a classic example
of the way tabloid newspapers work.
510
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,840
You're in a heap of trouble
because for years,
511
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,960
you personally
have taken Murdoch's money
512
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,920
and ruined people's lives,
513
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,400
invaded people's privacy
and engaged in criminal activity.
514
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,880
You've hired private investigators
in the past
515
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,720
who've broken the law,
haven't you, Jules?
516
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,280
I'm not here to justify...
Haven't you?
517
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,360
You accuse me of shoddy journalism
518
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,120
when your name
is all over the records
519
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,560
of Steve Whittamore,
private investigator,
520
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,000
convicted of using illegal means.
Your name's there.
521
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Information about Jamie Theakston,
522
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,760
about Anne Robinson,
about Anna Friel...
523
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,480
There are public interest factors...
Know what, Jules? Just stop.
524
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,960
Take a leaf out of Rupert Murdoch's
book and get humble.
525
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,480
Or else just go quiet.
526
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,200
People don't believe you any more.
Right. We're done being bullied
527
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,120
by you any more.
We've had enough of you.
528
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,960
Two years after this,
529
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,840
Jules Stenson pled guilty
to conspiracy to hack phones, but...
530
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,240
Well, I wish I knew that
at this moment.
531
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,840
SOFT JAZZ MUSIC
PLAYS
532
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,360
# Do I want you?
533
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,680
# Oh, my, do I
534
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,960
# Honey, indeed I do
535
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,360
# Do I need you?
536
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,280
# Oh, why do... #
537
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,240
BANGING ON DOOR
538
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,440
# Honey, indeed I do. #
539
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,000
Detective Chief Superintendent
Dave Cook.
540
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,160
INAUDIBLE
541
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,760
PHONE BUZZES,
SCRUBBING
542
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,040
BUZZING CONTINUES
543
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,000
Hello.
'Hi, Jacqui. It's Dave.'
544
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,880
David. What's this number?
545
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,480
Listen, Jacqui, I am...
546
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,240
I... I need you to pick up the kids.
547
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,840
'Where are you calling from?'
548
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,400
It's, erm...
549
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,720
It's actually
a police station number, Jacqui.
550
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,960
I've been arrested.
What?
551
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,440
On what charge?
552
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,640
It's misconduct, data protection.
553
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,800
I...
554
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,880
They raided the house.
Well, did they find anything?
555
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,880
'Some old files.'
556
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,600
What files? What...?
Why did you have files at home?
557
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,800
HINGES CREAK
I don't...
558
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,080
'What the fuck are they doing?'
559
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,280
I don't know, Jacqui!
560
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:47,760
I don't know.
561
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,800
What do we do? How can we help him?
562
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,880
GLEN: 'I'm not sure we're gonna help
until we know what they have.'
563
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,520
Well, we have to do something.
564
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,880
'Nick, we both know he was passing
information to both of us,
565
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,760
'and they've arrested
Amelia's source.
566
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,120
'Sit tight. We'll find an answer.'
567
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,680
OK. Bye.
568
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,280
I don't know
what you think you have here.
569
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,480
How about a cup of tea, sir?
No. I would like to leave.
570
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,880
I'm supposed to be giving evidence
tomorrow.
571
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,000
I'm a participant in Leveson.
572
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,880
But, then, I suppose
you already know that.
573
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,040
This conversation
is being recorded, so... Yes.
574
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,080
I understand that you've refused
legal representation. Yes.
575
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,520
And I do need to check that
you do fully understand your rights.
576
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,240
I'm 40 years
in the police force, son.
577
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,640
Yes, I understand my rights.
578
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,280
Good. All right.
579
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,760
Let's start from the beginning,
then, shall we?
580
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,960
Tell me about your relationship
with the journalist Mike Sullivan.
581
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,040
No comment.
582
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,320
So you deny passing information
to journalists?
583
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,560
And, as you know, police officers
working for Operation Elveden...
584
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,440
Operation Elveden is about bribery.
585
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,080
I have never accepted money
from a journalist in my life.
586
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,520
This is an operation looking into
the corrupt relations
587
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,280
between police and the press.
588
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,080
News International sent us emails.
589
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,200
News International sent you emails?
They were sent from their server.
590
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,720
Have you any idea...?
591
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,640
Do you deny
you were in regular contact
592
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,160
with the journalist Mike Sullivan?
593
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,400
Mike Sullivan and I worked together.
594
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,920
It was John Yates who introduced us.
595
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,520
He had access to my investigation
596
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,080
in return for writing
helpful articles in the newspaper.
597
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,560
I have done nothing
598
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,320
that a million police officers
before me haven't done.
599
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,000
It is standard police practice.
600
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,360
So you did nothing wrong?
Nothing.
601
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,200
Forty years in the police service
602
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,560
and you didn't know
you broke the law?
603
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,040
Shame on you.
604
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,640
SHARP RINGING
IN DAVE'S HEAD
605
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,000
RINGING CONTINUES
606
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,000
They're trying to get us all.
They're waiting for any mistake.
607
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,600
Then let's try not to make
any mistakes. Come inside.
608
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,640
DOOR CLOSES
609
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,280
Lindsay found a spare duvet
from somewhere.
610
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,000
I don't need to stay.
You should. I'd like you to.
611
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,720
Doing a sleepover
with the editor of The Guardian?
612
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,560
Not editor. Friend.
613
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,880
This... This may not be
entirely comfortable.
614
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,840
I should be helping.
615
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,760
Yes, you should.
616
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,280
A journalist
running away to America,
617
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,640
two police officers under arrest.
618
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,920
You're so paranoid, you're having
this house periodically debugged,
619
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,000
and it's...
620
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,520
It's all your fault.
SIGHING: Yeah.
621
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,440
You remember when we first met?
622
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,200
I felt like a child
who'd forgot his pencil.
623
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,360
You were so thrusting,
and, well, I wasn't.
624
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,920
But you were ambitious.
Hugely.
625
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,000
Compensating for who knows what?
626
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,600
And I thought, "Well, if everyone
at The Guardian's like him,
627
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,280
"I'm done for."
NICK LAUGHS
628
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:58,640
Thankfully, they weren't.
629
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,960
And thankfully, as it turns out,
I had something to offer you...
630
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,480
..as you had something to offer me.
631
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,120
Nick...
632
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,240
..don't mistake the fact
you were first through the door
633
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,000
with the fact that everyone else
634
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,120
went through the same door
willingly.
635
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,000
The sacrifices weren't for you.
They were for your cause.
636
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,480
You're part of a team, Nick.
637
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,080
The funny thing is,
you always have been.
638
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,640
I think
he's gonna get away with it...
639
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,880
..Murdoch.
640
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,280
I think he's gonna get away with it.
Perhaps.
641
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,320
Perhaps that's what abusers do.
642
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,280
Get away with things.
643
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,360
Or perhaps not.
644
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,840
Not really. Maybe...
645
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,080
Maybe...
646
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,560
..deep down inside them,
there's just...
647
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,960
..damage.
648
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,280
Yes, but sometimes...
649
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,480
Yes, but sometimes, the damage
they caused sometimes...
650
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,360
But you're not trying to excuse her.
Him.
651
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,639
No, Nick.
652
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,679
I'm not trying to excuse your mother
or him.
653
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,600
I'm saying...
654
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,920
..all we can do is fight
the best we can, and...
655
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,840
..hope we prove to be
a valiant opponent.
656
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,960
And personally speaking, I...
657
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,480
I am so proud to have been a part
658
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,199
of this great, valiant act.
659
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:48,320
Whatever happens...
660
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,560
..know that.
661
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,240
OK. You're OK.
662
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,640
BALL BOUNCES
663
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,960
DOOR OPENS,
FOOTSTEPS
664
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,400
Don't worry. You're before me.
I'm just...
665
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,480
..insanely, horrifically early.
666
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,680
It's Jacqui, isn't it?
Yes.
667
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,040
I read your statement. Strong stuff.
668
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,480
Harrowing, punchy. Nick, by the way.
669
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,120
I know, and thank you.
670
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,560
Coming from you, that's...
Thank you.
671
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,920
May I...?
I mean, I hope it's OK to ask.
672
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,320
How's David?
Oh.
673
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,920
It's been a week since we spoke,
674
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,560
but he's back in his house
at least.
675
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,120
He won't take my calls.
He will when he's ready.
676
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,000
It won't be you. It'll be him.
677
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,680
It's generally him.
678
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,160
He helped, by the way.
679
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,760
I'm not sure whether you're aware,
but he helped all of us.
680
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,960
He was key.
681
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,520
We wouldn't be here
without his help.
682
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,560
Sorry. I'll leave you
to let you prep, run your lines.
683
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:37,520
Oh, God.
684
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,840
I'm usually good with details,
but for some reason today,
685
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,560
my mind keeps going blank.
686
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,520
INHALES DEEPLY
687
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,160
SIGHS
688
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,840
I didn't sleep much.
689
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,760
I didn't sleep much last night.
690
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,960
Not a wink.
691
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,200
But, then, I don't sleep.
I'm not someone who sleeps.
692
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,840
You always been like that?
Since I was a boy, yeah.
693
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,760
Dave did tell you I wasn't
a simple guy to understand, right?
694
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,560
I've had days recently
where I can't remember my own name.
695
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,000
I've been in rooms full of people
and forgotten why I'm even there.
696
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,160
I suffer, and I have done for years,
from panic attacks.
697
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,200
Every time I sat down
to write this statement, I'd...
698
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,280
But this morning, I woke up,
and I felt clear,
699
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,280
clearer than I have done in years.
700
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,920
That's good.
Yes.
701
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,160
Just remember,
702
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,000
in the storm of all of this,
703
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,960
in all the mea culpa of...
704
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,120
..News Of The World,
705
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:49,880
they decided that
in the middle of this inquiry
706
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,920
to launch The Sun On Sunday.
707
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,200
You're right. They're bold.
708
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,360
Hmm.
709
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,440
Hmm.
710
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,120
That thing you were doing
with the ball, I don't mind,
711
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,400
if it helps to calm you.
712
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,440
Oh, come on. Drive you insane.
I've been tested by bigger things.
713
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,600
Please. Do what you need to do.
714
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,320
Oh. Yeah.
715
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,280
DISTANT SIREN
WAILS
716
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,520
'I'll be honest.
I'm scared of this inquiry.'
717
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,720
I'm scared because I think you'll
take the wrong recommendations...
718
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,680
..and because you'll destroy
something which is precious
719
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,680
without rebuilding something better.
720
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:59,360
I don't want destroyed
the notion of the unofficial source.
721
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,560
Sue Akers has arrested...
722
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:03,960
..37, 38 people
723
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,120
in the four inquiries
she's been running.
724
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:11,040
There have been a couple of arrests
of police officers
725
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,880
in cases where I know quite a lot
about the circumstances.
726
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,920
'What's happened there
is those officers have been told
727
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,880
'they will be charged with
the common-law offence
728
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,520
'of misconduct in a public office.
729
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,600
'Despite,
to the best of my knowledge,
730
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,960
'there being no allegation
of any kind of bribe or inducement.'
731
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,920
What those officers are being told
is, "You will be charged,
732
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,880
"and you can expect to get
a prison term of up to 18 months
733
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,640
"because you've spoken
to a reporter without permission."
734
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:49,040
Now... these two cases are live,
we don't know how they'll turn out.
735
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,640
May well be that the
Crown Prosecution Service will say,
736
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,360
"Hang on a moment.
This doesn't apply."
737
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,680
But... I think it's worrying,
738
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,280
and this is in the wake
of the phone hacking...
739
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,840
I worry that it might be
740
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,240
a completely unjustifiable
and unnecessary backlash
741
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:08,120
to the allegation of collusion
742
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,520
between News International
and the Met.
743
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,360
And the ultimate effect here may be
to prevent unauthorised contact
744
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,200
between journalists and police.
745
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,000
When, as a matter of fact,
without this unauthorised contact,
746
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,960
the Metropolitan Police
would've been allowed
747
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,280
to carry on misleading press,
public and parliament
748
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,280
about this whole scandal.
749
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,840
I'm also scared that this inquiry
750
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,680
might misstep
in a different direction.
751
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,120
Might soften itself... as it's
attacked from outside sources.
752
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,080
I have been under attack,
in one form or another,
753
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,680
ever since I first attempted
to reveal the practice of hacking.
754
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,160
And I-I-I...
755
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,000
I represent here today...
756
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,160
..a team of people, all of whom
have been under similar attacks.
757
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,600
'I've had to face extraordinary
things to be part of this fight.
758
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,880
'They've done so because
what you're doing here today
759
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,520
'is precious.
760
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,880
'News.
761
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,080
'I think... I think
the best definition of it...
762
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,800
'News is what someone somewhere
doesn't want you to know.'
763
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,720
The most difficult, skilful,
interesting, important... stuff
764
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:25,480
that reporters do
is about finding human sources
765
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,840
and motivating them
to help reveal that news.
766
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,600
And I can... I can tell you
767
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,280
of someone
at the front line of that.
768
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,400
News is also often what someone
is reluctant to tell.
769
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,480
So it's hard
to motivate a human source
770
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,280
to reveal their truth.
771
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,320
I'd say, look, if I talk to you
and they realise I've done this,
772
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,960
then I'll lose my job or my career.
773
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,400
Or I'll be beaten up,
I'll be arrested,
774
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,360
or embarrassed or ashamed.
775
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,520
I will hurt people who love me.
It's a very sensitive moment.
776
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,120
You have to make those people safe.
777
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,480
You have
to make those people realise
778
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,920
their truth is worth the risk.
779
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,480
What these hackers did was about
cutting out that human connection.
780
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,040
These so-called journalists
didn't find the truth.
781
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,960
They didn't persuade people
to come with them. They just stole.
782
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,120
They took.
783
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,600
And humanity was lost
in that moment.
784
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,480
Not only in the privacy
that was invaded,
785
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,960
but also in the stories told
from it.
786
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,840
Our papers became dish rags
of distorted content.
787
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,360
And a set of rogue journalists
working for a rogue corporation...
788
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,200
..undermine the very tenets
of journalism...
789
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,200
..the very tenets of truth telling.
790
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:10,800
If this inquiry succeeds, we may
be able to rebuild our newspapers.
791
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,320
We may be able to make them
what they should be.
792
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,360
Fail...
793
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,880
and News International will have
trapped us all in their shadow.
794
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,360
And I'm scared that
we will never get out.
795
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,760
INAUDIBLE
796
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,080
INAUDIBLE
797
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,040
INAUDIBLE
798
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,160
INAUDIBLE
799
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,680
INAUDIBLE
800
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,800
INAUDIBLE
801
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,440
INAUDIBLE
802
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,280
INAUDIBLE
803
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,120
INAUDIBLE
804
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,120
INAUDIBLE
805
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,640
INAUDIBLE
806
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,040
INAUDIBLE
807
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,160
INAUDIBLE
808
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,360
INAUDIBLE
809
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,720
INAUDIBLE
810
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,040
INAUDIBLE
811
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,720
INAUDIBLE
812
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000
Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com
102770
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.