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1
00:00:01,035 --> 00:00:05,606
Sex is an important part
of being a human being.
2
00:00:05,639 --> 00:00:09,377
We are not talking about sex
in the trans community.
3
00:00:09,410 --> 00:00:10,678
When people in our
community say,
4
00:00:10,711 --> 00:00:12,413
"Don't ask me
about my genitals,"
5
00:00:12,446 --> 00:00:15,249
I have to disagree, and I want
to talk about my genitals
6
00:00:15,283 --> 00:00:19,320
because I live an amazing
life with a vagina.
7
00:00:19,353 --> 00:00:22,623
[ Cheers and applause ]
8
00:00:22,656 --> 00:00:27,828
**
9
00:00:27,861 --> 00:00:31,265
Karley:
I love talking to my girlfriends
about sex stuff.
10
00:00:31,299 --> 00:00:34,202
It's like a sewing circle,
but for sluts.
11
00:00:34,235 --> 00:00:37,238
[ Telephone rings ]
Oh, that must be one
of my slutty friends now.
12
00:00:37,271 --> 00:00:39,140
Nomi: Hey, girl.
It's Nomi.
13
00:00:39,173 --> 00:00:40,408
You know what we don't talk
about enough?
14
00:00:40,441 --> 00:00:43,144
-What?
-Sex in the trans community.
15
00:00:43,177 --> 00:00:45,213
True.
16
00:00:45,246 --> 00:00:47,215
I wonder why.
17
00:00:47,248 --> 00:00:55,323
**
18
00:00:55,356 --> 00:00:57,825
I'm not transgender
and therefore cannot speak
19
00:00:57,858 --> 00:00:59,627
to the trans experience.
20
00:00:59,660 --> 00:01:02,363
But as a sex-positive,
slut-positive feminist,
21
00:01:02,396 --> 00:01:04,165
I've always found
talking openly
22
00:01:04,198 --> 00:01:07,568
about sex extremely
valuable and fun.
23
00:01:07,601 --> 00:01:10,371
My friend Nomi Ruiz
is a singer, performer,
24
00:01:10,404 --> 00:01:13,407
and an outspoken voice
in the trans community.
25
00:01:13,441 --> 00:01:15,709
I really appreciate you
talking to me about sex
26
00:01:15,743 --> 00:01:17,545
because it's
my favorite subject.
27
00:01:17,578 --> 00:01:19,847
Oh, my God. Mine too.
That's why we get along so well.
28
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,316
Sex is a big part of my brand.
It's a big part of my message.
29
00:01:22,350 --> 00:01:26,187
It's a big part
of my music and my art.
30
00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:28,322
I would love to, like,
see it more in pop culture
31
00:01:28,356 --> 00:01:30,624
and people having more fun
with conversations with it
32
00:01:30,658 --> 00:01:32,426
and, like,
not taking it so serious
33
00:01:32,460 --> 00:01:36,830
and just, like,
having fun with sex.
I agree.
34
00:01:36,864 --> 00:01:39,633
Last year, I interviewed Nomi
in an article for Vogue,
35
00:01:39,667 --> 00:01:41,235
where she described
her experience
36
00:01:41,269 --> 00:01:43,471
going through gender
confirmation surgery
37
00:01:43,504 --> 00:01:45,306
and how it affected
her sex life.
38
00:01:45,339 --> 00:01:46,840
How do you think
the conversation around sex
39
00:01:46,874 --> 00:01:48,609
within the trans
community has evolved
40
00:01:48,642 --> 00:01:50,478
over the past
handful of years?
41
00:01:50,511 --> 00:01:54,382
We've really made
a big impact on culture,
42
00:01:54,415 --> 00:01:55,516
which is amazing.
43
00:01:55,549 --> 00:01:57,485
At the same time,
in Hollywood,
44
00:01:57,518 --> 00:02:00,621
they have been exploiting
the trans narrative.
45
00:02:00,654 --> 00:02:02,323
When people think of
Laverne Cox
46
00:02:02,356 --> 00:02:04,558
and other prominent trans
people were saying,
47
00:02:04,592 --> 00:02:07,228
"Stop talking about surgery,
stop talking about sex,"
48
00:02:07,261 --> 00:02:09,263
did you agree
with them to a degree?
49
00:02:09,297 --> 00:02:13,234
Your private parts
are different now, aren't they?
50
00:02:13,267 --> 00:02:16,770
I don't want to talk about it
because it's really personal.
51
00:02:16,804 --> 00:02:18,739
The preoccupation with
transition, with surgery,
52
00:02:18,772 --> 00:02:20,341
objectifies trans people,
53
00:02:20,374 --> 00:02:21,909
and then we don't get
to really deal
54
00:02:21,942 --> 00:02:23,611
with the real
lived experiences,
55
00:02:23,644 --> 00:02:26,647
the reality of trans
people's lives.
56
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,183
I feel that, you know,
my community has done a lot
57
00:02:29,217 --> 00:02:31,219
to create boundaries
with society
58
00:02:31,252 --> 00:02:33,521
that let people know they don't
have access to our bodies
59
00:02:33,554 --> 00:02:35,889
and that we are entitled
to our privacy,
60
00:02:35,923 --> 00:02:37,825
and we shouldn't
be objectified.
61
00:02:37,858 --> 00:02:39,927
If you wouldn't ask
that to, like...
62
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,729
-Tom Cruise.
-...Nicole Kidman, yeah,
63
00:02:41,762 --> 00:02:46,934
then why would you feel like you
have access to that information?
64
00:02:46,967 --> 00:02:49,370
But, at the same time,
I feel like those boundaries
65
00:02:49,403 --> 00:02:52,806
have made it a little difficult
to talk about sex and sexuality.
66
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,375
Not talking about
something sometimes
67
00:02:54,408 --> 00:02:58,246
makes it feel shameful,
and it isn't.
68
00:02:58,279 --> 00:03:00,548
And so, somehow, we have to,
like, break the barrier
69
00:03:00,581 --> 00:03:04,885
because there is a time
and place to talk about sex.
70
00:03:04,918 --> 00:03:06,887
It's okay
to talk about sex.
71
00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:08,622
It should be your choice.
It should be...
72
00:03:08,656 --> 00:03:10,291
You know, you should be
in control of that dialogue
73
00:03:10,324 --> 00:03:11,692
and that narrative.
74
00:03:11,725 --> 00:03:14,662
Sluts.
Sluts for life.
75
00:03:14,695 --> 00:03:16,264
[ Laughs ]
76
00:03:18,699 --> 00:03:20,534
Karley: Clear boundaries
have been set
77
00:03:20,568 --> 00:03:22,836
in regard
to conversations around sex
78
00:03:22,870 --> 00:03:26,407
in order to respect the privacy
of transgender people,
79
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,642
but there is a movement
within the trans community
80
00:03:28,676 --> 00:03:31,545
to open up a dialogue
around sex and sexuality
81
00:03:31,579 --> 00:03:33,881
in a respectful, healthy way.
82
00:03:33,914 --> 00:03:36,950
So I came to LA to meet
Cameron and Aly,
83
00:03:36,984 --> 00:03:41,889
a couple who have a particularly
unique personal story.
84
00:03:41,922 --> 00:03:43,691
Hey.
Hi, how are you?
85
00:03:43,724 --> 00:03:45,459
Hi.
Come on in.
86
00:03:45,493 --> 00:03:47,295
Thank you.
87
00:03:47,328 --> 00:03:50,364
I was born in the same town
Cameron is from.
88
00:03:50,398 --> 00:03:52,500
Small world.
I know.
89
00:03:52,533 --> 00:03:53,567
But that's not
how you met, right?
90
00:03:53,601 --> 00:03:55,035
-No.
-No. Not at all.
91
00:03:55,068 --> 00:03:58,038
We actually met through
social media initially.
92
00:03:58,071 --> 00:03:59,940
-Millennial.
-Yeah.
93
00:03:59,973 --> 00:04:02,943
Yeah.
It was Instagram, actually.
94
00:04:02,976 --> 00:04:04,612
We started
following each other.
95
00:04:04,645 --> 00:04:06,714
I remember I got
that message from you.
96
00:04:06,747 --> 00:04:08,616
The modern-day rom-com,
like, "I slid into your DMs."
97
00:04:08,649 --> 00:04:10,918
Seriously.
Slid into the DMs.
98
00:04:10,951 --> 00:04:12,252
[ Laughs ]
99
00:04:15,022 --> 00:04:16,056
You should make breakfast.
100
00:04:16,089 --> 00:04:17,758
You can help me.
101
00:04:17,791 --> 00:04:20,294
Well, we'll make it
together.
102
00:04:20,328 --> 00:04:22,763
Yeah, buddy.
103
00:04:22,796 --> 00:04:24,798
How would you like
your eggs?
104
00:04:24,832 --> 00:04:26,434
Scrambled.
105
00:04:26,467 --> 00:04:28,369
Things don't always,
you know,
106
00:04:28,402 --> 00:04:33,073
appear as they are
at first glance.
107
00:04:33,106 --> 00:04:37,044
A stranger would maybe assume
that we were cis and straight.
108
00:04:37,077 --> 00:04:41,515
We do receive that
cis-hetero-passing privilege,
109
00:04:41,549 --> 00:04:43,751
and we should be bringing
to light the fact
110
00:04:43,784 --> 00:04:45,486
that
we're actually trans,
111
00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:48,322
and then we've had, you know,
surgeries and whatnot,
112
00:04:48,356 --> 00:04:50,691
so we can kind of challenge
people's perceptions
113
00:04:50,724 --> 00:04:53,093
and assumptions.
114
00:04:53,126 --> 00:04:55,429
Aside from, like,
the serendipity of
meeting each other,
115
00:04:55,463 --> 00:04:57,465
both being trans,
both being from the same place,
116
00:04:57,498 --> 00:05:01,335
you guys also were going through
the experience of surgery
117
00:05:01,369 --> 00:05:03,504
at almost
exactly the same time.
118
00:05:03,537 --> 00:05:06,507
Yeah, it's crazy that,
within months of each other,
119
00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:07,708
we had surgery.
120
00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:10,378
It also seems like
a very difficult
121
00:05:10,411 --> 00:05:12,079
and intense time
in your lives.
122
00:05:12,112 --> 00:05:15,816
I don't think there was a lot
of difficulty for me, at least.
123
00:05:15,849 --> 00:05:18,852
We had different surgeries,
right, and so just, for me,
124
00:05:18,886 --> 00:05:20,921
like,
adjusting to a new body,
125
00:05:20,954 --> 00:05:24,792
which I talked
before with you,
126
00:05:24,825 --> 00:05:27,027
yeah, it's --
I mean, you change.
127
00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:28,662
You change physically.
128
00:05:28,696 --> 00:05:33,434
It's something that takes
time to adjust.
129
00:05:33,467 --> 00:05:37,505
10 --
T-minus 10, 9...
130
00:05:37,538 --> 00:05:39,106
Put extra love into it,
babe.
131
00:05:39,139 --> 00:05:40,374
[ Chuckles ]
132
00:05:40,408 --> 00:05:41,709
[ Microwave beeps ]
133
00:05:41,742 --> 00:05:43,611
Yes.
134
00:05:47,715 --> 00:05:52,119
There's been changes in our
intimacy as far as, like, sex.
135
00:05:52,152 --> 00:05:55,623
Before, I was awkward
because I wasn't comfortable
136
00:05:55,656 --> 00:05:57,891
with what I had,
and then now I'm awkward
137
00:05:57,925 --> 00:06:00,628
because I don't know
what to do with what I have.
138
00:06:00,661 --> 00:06:03,697
I think that's been
a difficult part.
139
00:06:03,731 --> 00:06:05,966
Why did you guys think it was
important to talk publicly
140
00:06:05,999 --> 00:06:08,736
about your relationship
and your sexuality?
141
00:06:08,769 --> 00:06:11,138
I wanted to just talk
about it and, like,
142
00:06:11,171 --> 00:06:12,840
so someone
doesn't feel alone.
143
00:06:12,873 --> 00:06:14,742
Like, they might be
feeling like,
144
00:06:14,775 --> 00:06:17,144
"Oh, I'm a freak.
I can't figure out my body."
145
00:06:17,177 --> 00:06:18,846
They're not alone.
146
00:06:18,879 --> 00:06:21,715
Yeah, I think it's just great
to bring visibility
147
00:06:21,749 --> 00:06:25,519
to all the different kinds
of trans experiences out there.
148
00:06:25,553 --> 00:06:28,556
I mean, there's not just
one way to be trans.
149
00:06:28,589 --> 00:06:31,525
It's important to just shed
light on all the different,
150
00:06:31,559 --> 00:06:35,696
you know, ways that trans
people can be sexual.
151
00:06:35,729 --> 00:06:37,498
[ Laughs ]
152
00:06:40,668 --> 00:06:42,102
It's painful.
It's really painful.
153
00:06:42,135 --> 00:06:43,571
Yeah,
I'd be scared of that.
154
00:06:43,604 --> 00:06:45,072
Gender is all
socially constructed.
155
00:06:45,105 --> 00:06:47,174
People are so hung up on it,
and it's all bullshit.
156
00:06:47,207 --> 00:06:51,044
I remember you said, "Oh, I
don't like oral sex from guys."
157
00:06:51,078 --> 00:06:54,047
And I didn't even realize it was
just because the guys sucked.
158
00:07:01,021 --> 00:07:04,024
Karley:
Cameron and Aly have supported
each other through recovery
159
00:07:04,057 --> 00:07:06,494
after their
gender-confirming surgeries.
160
00:07:06,527 --> 00:07:09,830
But of course they each had
their own unique experience.
161
00:07:09,863 --> 00:07:11,164
Today,
Cameron is getting back
162
00:07:11,198 --> 00:07:13,200
to his regular
iron-pumping routine,
163
00:07:13,233 --> 00:07:14,802
so I am joining him
at the gym
164
00:07:14,835 --> 00:07:16,770
to sit on the sidelines
in a leather skirt
165
00:07:16,804 --> 00:07:18,806
and lazily watch him sweat.
166
00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:23,043
I honestly identified
as a butch lesbian for, like,
167
00:07:23,076 --> 00:07:26,013
the first 25 years
or so of my life.
168
00:07:26,046 --> 00:07:28,616
And, also,
I'm a very physical person.
169
00:07:28,649 --> 00:07:31,885
I was a semi-professional
rugby player at one point.
170
00:07:31,919 --> 00:07:34,722
My journey, discovering
my trans identity,
171
00:07:34,755 --> 00:07:38,792
came during the years
that I was playing rugby.
172
00:07:38,826 --> 00:07:41,529
The fitter I am,
the better I pass.
173
00:07:41,562 --> 00:07:43,564
And is this the first time
you're working out?
174
00:07:43,597 --> 00:07:47,167
Yeah, 7 weeks post-op,
and this is the first time
175
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,538
I've been back in a gym,
so it feels really good.
176
00:07:50,571 --> 00:07:52,205
You got top surgery.
177
00:07:52,239 --> 00:07:53,607
Yes.
178
00:07:53,641 --> 00:07:55,175
Can you explain
what that means?
179
00:07:55,208 --> 00:08:00,981
My surgeon was able to reduce
the size of my breast tissue,
180
00:08:01,014 --> 00:08:04,785
and he did a procedure where he
actually kept the blood supply
181
00:08:04,818 --> 00:08:07,955
and the nerve ending
attached to the nipples,
182
00:08:07,988 --> 00:08:10,057
and then made them
more cis-looking,
183
00:08:10,090 --> 00:08:12,626
which means smaller
and farther out to the side.
184
00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:15,228
I feel much more
comfortable in my skin now
185
00:08:15,262 --> 00:08:17,798
after having top surgery.
186
00:08:17,831 --> 00:08:22,703
I would oftentimes wear shirts
or tank tops during sex,
187
00:08:22,736 --> 00:08:24,572
never be completely
naked with your partner.
188
00:08:24,605 --> 00:08:27,541
And now I can be, so that's,
like, another level of intimacy
189
00:08:27,575 --> 00:08:28,776
that you can achieve,
right?
190
00:08:28,809 --> 00:08:30,077
You know, fuck
having tits, right?
191
00:08:30,110 --> 00:08:31,979
It's like...
[ Laughs ]
192
00:08:32,012 --> 00:08:36,717
Do you identify
as a straight man?
193
00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:39,052
To be technical,
it is heterosexual
194
00:08:39,086 --> 00:08:41,021
because I'm attracted
to the opposite,
195
00:08:41,054 --> 00:08:44,892
but I say, overall,
I identify as trans queer
196
00:08:44,925 --> 00:08:49,262
because I still want to honor
my queer experience of,
197
00:08:49,296 --> 00:08:54,267
you know, those 25 years of
being a stone-cold butch dyke.
198
00:08:54,301 --> 00:08:56,003
It just
is so complicated.
199
00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:58,105
It feels like, at a point
with sexuality and gender,
200
00:08:58,138 --> 00:08:59,973
it's, like, should we just,
like, have no labels
201
00:09:00,007 --> 00:09:01,341
because
it's, like, too much.
202
00:09:01,374 --> 00:09:03,110
Gender is all socially
constructed anyway,
203
00:09:03,143 --> 00:09:05,579
so it's all bullshit.
204
00:09:05,613 --> 00:09:06,980
People
are so hung up on it,
205
00:09:07,014 --> 00:09:08,315
and it's so important
to just realize, like,
206
00:09:08,348 --> 00:09:11,652
the fluidity of people's
gender expression
207
00:09:11,685 --> 00:09:12,953
and then their sexuality,
208
00:09:12,986 --> 00:09:15,088
and it so beautifully
evolves for a lot of us.
209
00:09:15,122 --> 00:09:17,891
It's not just fixed
in one way.
210
00:09:17,925 --> 00:09:20,661
Karley: For Cameron, surgery has
increased his confidence
211
00:09:20,694 --> 00:09:22,329
and his ability
to be intimate.
212
00:09:22,362 --> 00:09:25,999
But the process of recovery
can be complex.
213
00:09:26,033 --> 00:09:29,770
Aly: I had my surgery
about 7 months ago.
214
00:09:29,803 --> 00:09:31,839
Everybody just thinks like,
"Oh, a penis or, like,
215
00:09:31,872 --> 00:09:34,742
a clitoris are not the same,"
but they're very similar.
216
00:09:34,775 --> 00:09:38,912
And so they just, like, reshape
it and, like, reposition, right?
217
00:09:38,946 --> 00:09:41,214
There's a very physical process
that you have to go
218
00:09:41,248 --> 00:09:43,283
through in recovery
to surgery, right?
219
00:09:43,316 --> 00:09:45,953
Mm-hmm.
There's a muscle in that area.
220
00:09:45,986 --> 00:09:49,056
That muscle is not used
to having a cavity,
221
00:09:49,089 --> 00:09:52,626
so if you don't
keep it open, it'll close.
222
00:09:52,660 --> 00:09:54,127
So it's really
important to dilate.
223
00:09:54,161 --> 00:09:55,929
You have to dilate
every day.
224
00:09:55,963 --> 00:09:59,132
Can you explain
what dilation is?
225
00:09:59,166 --> 00:10:05,105
So you pretty much get this
silicone rod dildo-type thing.
226
00:10:05,138 --> 00:10:08,275
It's not as erotic
as it sounds.
227
00:10:08,308 --> 00:10:09,376
It's just really hard.
228
00:10:09,409 --> 00:10:10,744
Do you want to see them?
229
00:10:10,778 --> 00:10:11,979
Yeah.
230
00:10:12,012 --> 00:10:13,714
It's made perfectly
to fit,
231
00:10:13,747 --> 00:10:17,117
and it has little dots
to indicate the size.
232
00:10:17,150 --> 00:10:19,119
They're a little thicker
at the ends,
233
00:10:19,152 --> 00:10:21,354
but they're
all the same length.
234
00:10:21,388 --> 00:10:23,991
I started with this one.
This is the one I learned with.
235
00:10:24,024 --> 00:10:26,426
My depth
is about right here.
236
00:10:26,459 --> 00:10:29,763
And then this one, I'm terrified
of just because it...
237
00:10:29,797 --> 00:10:31,899
I mean, it's not that thick,
but it looks...
238
00:10:31,932 --> 00:10:33,033
Yeah,
I'd be scared of that.
239
00:10:33,066 --> 00:10:34,702
It looks big.
It's painful.
240
00:10:34,735 --> 00:10:36,403
It's really painful,
and your nerves,
241
00:10:36,436 --> 00:10:39,339
they become numb
from kind of the trauma
242
00:10:39,372 --> 00:10:41,809
they go through,
and they start coming back,
243
00:10:41,842 --> 00:10:44,144
and it hurts like hell.
244
00:10:44,177 --> 00:10:45,913
There's depression too.
245
00:10:45,946 --> 00:10:47,981
I'm still depressed,
I feel,
246
00:10:48,015 --> 00:10:49,449
and I didn't think
I would be depressed.
247
00:10:49,482 --> 00:10:52,219
You would think that
I'd be really happy, and...
248
00:10:52,252 --> 00:10:54,922
What do you think
the depression is from?
249
00:10:54,955 --> 00:10:58,892
As a trans woman, I guess
I have expectations for myself
250
00:10:58,926 --> 00:11:01,161
that I've created
since I was very little
251
00:11:01,194 --> 00:11:02,963
of what
I want to look like.
252
00:11:02,996 --> 00:11:06,700
I thought, "Once I get surgery,
I'll be happy,"
253
00:11:06,734 --> 00:11:08,201
but I'm still not.
254
00:11:08,235 --> 00:11:10,337
Do other people in the community
or other trans women
255
00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:12,773
who have gone through surgery
talk about something similar?
256
00:11:12,806 --> 00:11:16,343
So when I looked online to see
if it had the information
257
00:11:16,376 --> 00:11:18,245
regarding
post-op about sex,
258
00:11:18,278 --> 00:11:21,982
about post-op life,
it was really hard to find.
259
00:11:24,051 --> 00:11:26,353
There seemed to be kind of,
like, shame
260
00:11:26,386 --> 00:11:30,490
and kind of a stigma
to talk about it.
261
00:11:30,523 --> 00:11:32,359
It takes a lot
of courage for Aly
262
00:11:32,392 --> 00:11:35,996
to open up about how she's still
struggling after her surgery.
263
00:11:36,029 --> 00:11:37,497
It reminds me
of what Nomi said
264
00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:39,499
about going through
similar struggles.
265
00:11:39,532 --> 00:11:43,370
When I decided to have my
surgery, I just felt so isolated
266
00:11:43,403 --> 00:11:45,873
and so alone,
and I was, like, terrified.
267
00:11:45,906 --> 00:11:48,742
There was just so much
that I didn't expect, you know,
268
00:11:48,776 --> 00:11:51,411
and it's been
a learning process.
269
00:11:51,444 --> 00:11:54,481
Still, to this day, I'm learning
more and more and more.
270
00:11:54,514 --> 00:11:57,384
If we just talk about it more,
I think it doesn't have to be
271
00:11:57,417 --> 00:11:59,887
so isolating and so scary.
272
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,323
What do you want to say to
young women of trans experience
273
00:12:03,356 --> 00:12:07,394
about sex
and about sexuality
274
00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:10,363
that you wish someone had
told you when you were younger?
275
00:12:10,397 --> 00:12:13,366
I feel like a lot of girls
going through this journey
276
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,403
blame their body, or, like,
they blame their trans-ness.
277
00:12:16,436 --> 00:12:18,538
I remember there was this
one guy going down on me
278
00:12:18,571 --> 00:12:20,140
for, like, an hour,
279
00:12:20,173 --> 00:12:21,942
and I'm trying to get into it
because I'm like,
280
00:12:21,975 --> 00:12:23,811
"I have to enjoy this.
It would suck if I don't."
281
00:12:23,844 --> 00:12:27,414
And I'm like, "It's a disaster.
I can't focus. I'm in pain."
282
00:12:27,447 --> 00:12:29,049
I'm just like, "What is...
something..."
283
00:12:29,082 --> 00:12:30,884
And I would blame it
on myself.
284
00:12:30,918 --> 00:12:33,220
And I didn't even realize it was
just because the guy sucked.
285
00:12:33,253 --> 00:12:35,923
And then, like, when I kept,
you know, trying,
286
00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:37,290
and I met something
that was amazing,
287
00:12:37,324 --> 00:12:40,327
it was,
of course, heavenly.
288
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,562
Oh, it's real.
It's so real.
289
00:12:42,595 --> 00:12:44,497
That's what I want to share
with other people.
290
00:12:44,531 --> 00:12:49,236
There is, like, a beautiful
light at the end of the tunnel.
291
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:51,571
It's liberating to a woman
who has been forced
292
00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:53,306
to have this open mind
with sex
293
00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:56,109
and sexuality and gender
and the human body.
294
00:12:56,143 --> 00:12:57,310
It's sexy, you know.
295
00:12:57,344 --> 00:13:00,280
I think so.
I think so too.
296
00:13:00,313 --> 00:13:03,316
Sluts!
[ Laughs ]
297
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:05,252
It was embarrassing to be
a man with a vagina.
298
00:13:05,285 --> 00:13:08,255
And there were my fingers,
inside of me,
299
00:13:08,288 --> 00:13:12,425
and I had the most
amazing orgasm of my life.
300
00:13:18,465 --> 00:13:19,499
Karley: Few people have
advocated for the importance
301
00:13:21,268 --> 00:13:22,870
of an open
conversation around sex
302
00:13:22,903 --> 00:13:25,305
in the trans community
more than Buck Angel.
303
00:13:25,338 --> 00:13:28,942
Buck is an LGBTQ activist,
a sex educator,
304
00:13:28,976 --> 00:13:31,611
a sex-toy inventor,
and a pornographer.
305
00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:33,480
Respect.
306
00:13:33,513 --> 00:13:35,548
Karley: Do you think that now
we're finally getting to a point
307
00:13:35,582 --> 00:13:37,350
where the idea
of transsexuality
308
00:13:37,384 --> 00:13:39,352
is something
that we can talk about,
309
00:13:39,386 --> 00:13:42,355
and people are
more accepting of?
310
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:45,225
No. I don't think so.
[ Laughs ] No.
311
00:13:45,258 --> 00:13:47,160
I tend to be one of
the only people
312
00:13:47,194 --> 00:13:49,596
out there really pushing
for talking about,
313
00:13:49,629 --> 00:13:51,498
you know, sex within
the trans community,
314
00:13:51,531 --> 00:13:54,401
and I get a lot of pushback
from parts of this community,
315
00:13:54,434 --> 00:13:57,137
of the trans community, that I
don't speak for the community.
316
00:13:57,170 --> 00:13:59,506
I don't speak for
anybody but myself.
317
00:13:59,539 --> 00:14:02,109
Some of us choose to talk
about our genitals,
318
00:14:02,142 --> 00:14:03,443
and some of us don't.
319
00:14:03,476 --> 00:14:05,979
But I think, by not having
the conversation,
320
00:14:06,013 --> 00:14:09,516
we have shut down
our own needs
321
00:14:09,549 --> 00:14:14,354
and our own desires
and our own self-awareness.
322
00:14:14,387 --> 00:14:16,389
Buck also holds
workshops to promote
323
00:14:16,423 --> 00:14:18,658
an open conversation
around sex.
324
00:14:18,691 --> 00:14:20,160
And, tonight, he's invited me
325
00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:22,662
to join one of his
candid group hangs.
326
00:14:22,695 --> 00:14:26,233
I started my workshops because
I wanted to start to help guys
327
00:14:26,266 --> 00:14:27,600
to figure out
how to get to that
328
00:14:27,634 --> 00:14:30,403
next level of accepting
your body sexually
329
00:14:30,437 --> 00:14:33,640
and actually
engaging physically.
330
00:14:33,673 --> 00:14:35,442
Hi, everybody.
331
00:14:35,475 --> 00:14:37,044
Thanks for coming.
332
00:14:37,077 --> 00:14:38,511
It's so awesome that
you guys all showed up.
333
00:14:38,545 --> 00:14:40,147
[ Laughs ]
334
00:14:40,180 --> 00:14:44,151
Sex is an important part
of being a human being,
335
00:14:44,184 --> 00:14:47,154
and one of the things
that totally changed my life
336
00:14:47,187 --> 00:14:50,623
was learning how
to have sex in my body,
337
00:14:50,657 --> 00:14:54,061
which was the body
I hated most of my life.
338
00:14:54,094 --> 00:14:56,296
So I started to have
to think to myself,
339
00:14:56,329 --> 00:15:00,333
"Will I be a man
with my vagina?"
340
00:15:00,367 --> 00:15:02,435
because the world
says no.
341
00:15:02,469 --> 00:15:07,174
So this is exactly how
I decided not to get a penis --
342
00:15:07,207 --> 00:15:09,109
masturbation.
343
00:15:09,142 --> 00:15:11,411
One day, in my secret
little masturbation club
344
00:15:11,444 --> 00:15:13,480
that I would have at home
under my covers,
345
00:15:13,513 --> 00:15:15,315
I would jack off.
346
00:15:15,348 --> 00:15:18,151
And there I was,
jacking off all crazy,
347
00:15:18,185 --> 00:15:21,421
and then my fingers
slipped inside of me,
348
00:15:21,454 --> 00:15:23,423
and I had never been
penetrated before.
349
00:15:23,456 --> 00:15:24,524
Never wanted to.
350
00:15:24,557 --> 00:15:26,059
That felt very feminine
to me.
351
00:15:26,093 --> 00:15:27,727
It felt like it was
woman's stuff,
352
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,462
and I'm not interested
in that.
353
00:15:29,496 --> 00:15:32,465
And there were my fingers,
inside of me,
354
00:15:32,499 --> 00:15:36,569
and I had the most
amazing orgasm of my life
355
00:15:36,603 --> 00:15:38,205
that I will never forget.
356
00:15:38,238 --> 00:15:40,140
That is definitely
when the clouds parted,
357
00:15:40,173 --> 00:15:41,641
and I was like,
"I saw God,"
358
00:15:41,674 --> 00:15:44,744
and I was like, "And why would
I get rid of my vagina?"
359
00:15:44,777 --> 00:15:47,981
Now, I don't want you to think
that my whole process in that
360
00:15:48,015 --> 00:15:50,717
is to discourage people from
having surgery because it isn't.
361
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:53,053
My message
is to be yourself.
362
00:15:53,086 --> 00:15:54,187
If you want to have
bottom surgery, do it.
363
00:15:54,221 --> 00:15:56,089
If you don't, no.
364
00:15:56,123 --> 00:16:00,227
But the point is is that I live
an amazing life with a vagina.
365
00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:02,495
When I used to go
to trans support groups,
366
00:16:02,529 --> 00:16:05,265
the most important question
that the facilitator
367
00:16:05,298 --> 00:16:07,067
had said one day is like,
368
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:08,468
"What you need
to ask yourself is,
369
00:16:08,501 --> 00:16:10,103
'When is it going
to be enough?'"
Right.
370
00:16:10,137 --> 00:16:11,338
"'When are you going to
be enough?'"
Right.
371
00:16:11,371 --> 00:16:12,772
Because, yeah,
it could be XYZ,
372
00:16:12,805 --> 00:16:14,607
and you're still not happy,
so...
373
00:16:14,641 --> 00:16:16,376
Happiness comes from inside.
374
00:16:16,409 --> 00:16:18,245
Exactly.
That's the key.
375
00:16:18,278 --> 00:16:19,646
It's so simple.
376
00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:21,548
Like, this is your journey.
Do it your way.
377
00:16:21,581 --> 00:16:24,251
Like, I'm not on testosterone,
and I'm comfortable with that,
378
00:16:24,284 --> 00:16:25,685
and guys ask me all the time,
"Yo, bro, like,
379
00:16:25,718 --> 00:16:27,254
how did you
get that beard?"
380
00:16:27,287 --> 00:16:28,455
And I'm like, "Oh, well,
I went another route,"
381
00:16:28,488 --> 00:16:29,756
because a lot of bros
don't know
382
00:16:29,789 --> 00:16:31,324
you can have beard
transplant surgery.
383
00:16:31,358 --> 00:16:33,593
There are options that
you can do for yourself.
384
00:16:33,626 --> 00:16:35,562
You don't have to compare
and contrast
385
00:16:35,595 --> 00:16:38,398
yourself to other people.
Every single one of us
in this room
386
00:16:38,431 --> 00:16:41,668
have been brainwashed to feel
gender is a certain way,
387
00:16:41,701 --> 00:16:43,370
"You don't have a penis,
you're not a man."
388
00:16:43,403 --> 00:16:45,072
That's controlling.
389
00:16:45,105 --> 00:16:47,574
With that said, a lot of
trans men are not at the level
390
00:16:47,607 --> 00:16:49,709
I'm at with my vagina.
391
00:16:49,742 --> 00:16:53,713
So what I said to myself was,
"How do I get trans men
392
00:16:53,746 --> 00:16:56,483
to feel comfortable
in their bodies?"
393
00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:59,386
So I kept thinking, "How can
I get them, how can I get them,"
394
00:16:59,419 --> 00:17:02,055
and I'm like, "A toy."
395
00:17:02,089 --> 00:17:05,592
This is the very first
transgender male sex toy
396
00:17:05,625 --> 00:17:07,160
in the world.
397
00:17:07,194 --> 00:17:10,563
So I designed it specifically
to have the look
398
00:17:10,597 --> 00:17:12,532
of a penis a little bit,
right?
399
00:17:12,565 --> 00:17:15,702
So this fits over top
of the clitoris like that,
400
00:17:15,735 --> 00:17:19,172
so now when you're masturbating,
what are you doing?
401
00:17:19,206 --> 00:17:20,407
You're jacking off.
402
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,509
So instead of touching
your vagina,
403
00:17:22,542 --> 00:17:24,377
you're jacking off
like a guy.
404
00:17:24,411 --> 00:17:27,580
So that was an amazing thing,
to be able to create a product
405
00:17:27,614 --> 00:17:31,184
that gave men permission
to masturbate
406
00:17:31,218 --> 00:17:32,419
and gave men permission
to say,
407
00:17:32,452 --> 00:17:34,454
"My body is okay,
and I'm okay."
408
00:17:34,487 --> 00:17:36,723
So I have guys writing me
now and saying,
409
00:17:36,756 --> 00:17:40,793
"I don't even use it anymore.
I now touch myself."
410
00:17:40,827 --> 00:17:43,463
That, to me,
is everything.
411
00:17:43,496 --> 00:17:46,466
If you do not love your body and
you don't understand your body,
412
00:17:46,499 --> 00:17:50,503
however your body is,
nobody else will love your body.
413
00:17:50,537 --> 00:17:55,475
I equate a lot of myself
and my confidence to sex,
414
00:17:55,508 --> 00:17:57,144
and it's why I like
to talk about sex
415
00:17:57,177 --> 00:17:58,711
and why I think, within
the trans community,
416
00:17:58,745 --> 00:18:01,614
we better start
to talk about sex.
417
00:18:01,648 --> 00:18:05,118
[ Cheers and applause ]
418
00:18:05,152 --> 00:18:08,355
I thank you guys.
I appreciate it.
419
00:18:08,388 --> 00:18:10,190
Karley: Buck's talk was such
a great experience.
420
00:18:10,223 --> 00:18:12,559
It was really clear how
important his work is to people.
421
00:18:12,592 --> 00:18:14,427
I just think that
it's so healthy for people
422
00:18:14,461 --> 00:18:17,597
to talk about sex in, like,
such a raw and honest way, like,
423
00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:19,699
whether you're trans
or not trans.
424
00:18:19,732 --> 00:18:21,601
People are looking
for an opportunity
425
00:18:21,634 --> 00:18:24,371
to have that conversation,
and him being so open about it
426
00:18:24,404 --> 00:18:25,638
is really giving
people permission
427
00:18:25,672 --> 00:18:26,906
to start talking about that.
428
00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:29,342
What up, bro?
Nice to meet you finally.
429
00:18:29,376 --> 00:18:31,311
It's kind of been, like, taboo
to talk about sex
430
00:18:31,344 --> 00:18:32,845
within the trans community.
431
00:18:32,879 --> 00:18:34,714
So with Buck inviting
this conversation, it's like,
432
00:18:34,747 --> 00:18:36,483
"Wow. Okay.
433
00:18:36,516 --> 00:18:37,917
It is uncomfortable.
It's different.
434
00:18:37,950 --> 00:18:39,819
We're different,
but we're valued, we're human,
435
00:18:39,852 --> 00:18:42,189
and we deserve
the right to have sex."
436
00:18:42,222 --> 00:18:44,491
Sex is fun.
Yeah.
It's great. I love it.
437
00:18:44,524 --> 00:18:46,693
Aly: As a person,
I finally feel free.
438
00:18:46,726 --> 00:18:51,298
I feel liberated, but I don't
feel that way around sex.
439
00:18:54,534 --> 00:18:58,938
**
440
00:18:58,971 --> 00:19:00,707
Aly:
When it came to transitioning,
441
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:04,344
I've never thought
about my sexuality.
442
00:19:04,377 --> 00:19:06,546
I've transitioned for myself.
443
00:19:09,416 --> 00:19:15,522
But being post-op, I want to
feel pleasure with my partner.
444
00:19:15,555 --> 00:19:17,290
Karley:
How would you say that the way
that you guys are intimate
445
00:19:17,324 --> 00:19:20,427
with each other
has changed as you've gone
446
00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:23,696
through these parts
of your transition together?
447
00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:25,332
As a person, I feel free.
448
00:19:25,365 --> 00:19:26,733
I finally free.
449
00:19:26,766 --> 00:19:29,569
I feel liberated,
but I don't feel that way
450
00:19:29,602 --> 00:19:31,404
around sex right now.
451
00:19:31,438 --> 00:19:35,308
Do you have goals
for your sex life?
452
00:19:35,342 --> 00:19:37,944
I have a goal I guess just to
be comfortable with my body
453
00:19:37,977 --> 00:19:42,982
so I could just be
as freaky as possible...
[ Laughs ]
454
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:44,784
...without feeling
uncomfortable.
455
00:19:44,817 --> 00:19:47,420
You know, having penetrative
sex, that is a goal,
456
00:19:47,454 --> 00:19:48,988
I think, of ours.
457
00:19:49,021 --> 00:19:52,692
We're still so freshly,
you know, out of Aly's surgery
458
00:19:52,725 --> 00:19:54,594
that we're still
in a stage of her
459
00:19:54,627 --> 00:19:55,862
getting used to dilating,
460
00:19:55,895 --> 00:19:59,266
getting used to
having penetration.
461
00:19:59,299 --> 00:20:02,302
We understand that that's,
you know, going to take time,
462
00:20:02,335 --> 00:20:05,938
and I think it's just
being respectful of her
463
00:20:05,972 --> 00:20:07,874
and creating that
safe space for her
464
00:20:07,907 --> 00:20:10,377
to be more and more
comfortable it key.
465
00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:11,811
-So respectful.
-Like, literally.
466
00:20:11,844 --> 00:20:12,845
It's so funny.
467
00:20:12,879 --> 00:20:15,948
It's just it feels good.
468
00:20:15,982 --> 00:20:19,252
I think that dating a dude
who is really concerned
469
00:20:19,286 --> 00:20:20,587
with your sexual pleasure
is literally the
470
00:20:20,620 --> 00:20:23,856
Holy Grail for anyone.
471
00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:25,558
Yeah, definitely.
472
00:20:25,592 --> 00:20:30,497
**
473
00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:33,433
That's what I love
about being with Cameron.
474
00:20:33,466 --> 00:20:35,868
I understand him.
He understands me.
475
00:20:35,902 --> 00:20:38,605
And, you know,
we talk about sex.
476
00:20:38,638 --> 00:20:42,975
We have communication,
and I think it's very unique.
477
00:20:43,009 --> 00:20:45,645
I think, and I hope that,
as a culture,
478
00:20:45,678 --> 00:20:47,780
we are finally
beginning to understand
479
00:20:47,814 --> 00:20:49,949
or to expand the definition
of sex beyond just,
480
00:20:49,982 --> 00:20:51,584
like, this heteronormative
idea of,
481
00:20:51,618 --> 00:20:53,553
like, you go like this,
you know what I mean?
482
00:20:53,586 --> 00:20:54,954
-Right.
-Right.
483
00:20:54,987 --> 00:20:57,824
And that's true
for straight people, cis people,
484
00:20:57,857 --> 00:21:00,026
queer people, right?
-Yeah.
485
00:21:00,059 --> 00:21:03,363
People, whatever they are,
trans, cis,
486
00:21:03,396 --> 00:21:07,667
it's not just about parts
fitting together, absolutely.
487
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:12,705
It's, you know, it also
takes place on a higher plane.
488
00:21:12,739 --> 00:21:15,074
No matter what your gender
or sexual orientation,
489
00:21:15,107 --> 00:21:18,445
engaging in open conversations
around sex and sexuality
490
00:21:18,478 --> 00:21:21,848
can be transformative
not only on a personal level
491
00:21:21,881 --> 00:21:24,717
but for society at large.
492
00:21:24,751 --> 00:21:27,320
Plus respectful
conversations around sex
493
00:21:27,354 --> 00:21:30,857
are just undeniably sexy.
494
00:21:30,890 --> 00:21:36,896
I'm hopeful that it'll get
better as the months go by.
495
00:21:36,929 --> 00:21:41,534
It's wonderful that I have
Cameron who is understanding.
496
00:21:41,568 --> 00:21:44,504
Learning how to please
the other partner
497
00:21:44,537 --> 00:21:46,973
is just kind of something
you're always learning
498
00:21:47,006 --> 00:21:49,809
and always constantly
evolving in a relationship.
499
00:21:49,842 --> 00:21:51,878
I don't think you ever stop
learning your partner
500
00:21:51,911 --> 00:21:54,381
no matter how long
you're together.
501
00:21:56,516 --> 00:21:59,118
I was able to experience,
you know, love and intimacy
502
00:21:59,151 --> 00:22:05,392
in giving Aly pleasure
before and after surgery.
503
00:22:05,425 --> 00:22:08,361
It's just reinforcing the fact
that it's about the person.
504
00:22:08,395 --> 00:22:12,131
It's not about
the plumbing.
505
00:22:12,164 --> 00:22:14,634
Sex is more
than just physical.
506
00:22:14,667 --> 00:22:17,136
It's also, like,
the spiritual connection.
507
00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:22,575
**
508
00:22:22,609 --> 00:22:27,814
**
38329
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