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Uh, OK.
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Journalist friends
of mine say of all the people
that do journalism,
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00:02:08,195 --> 00:02:09,761
war photographers
are the craziest.
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00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:12,364
Can you talk about that?
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Well, the problem
with war photography
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is that there's
absolutely no way
to do it from a distance.
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You have to be close.
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You can't do it from your hotel,
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you can't do it
from across the street,
across the bridge.
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You have to be there.
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There's really no substitute
for that.
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So, you have to figure out ways
to get in the midst of things,
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no matter what's happening.
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And you have to suspend
your reason sometimes
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to do that and I think
that's where that reputation
comes from.
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Name a country
torn apart by war
in the last six years or so
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and chances are
Chris Hondros has been there.
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He has worked in most of
the world's major conflict zones
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since the late 1990s.
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00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:03,415
Iraq, Liberia, Kosovo.
21
00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:05,383
Through the lens of his camera,
Chris Hondros has taken...
22
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Pulitzer Prize nominated
war photographer
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00:03:07,887 --> 00:03:09,288
Chris Hondros
for Getty Images...
24
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Chris is a staff photographer
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00:03:11,891 --> 00:03:14,492
for the international
photo agency Getty Images.
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He's just returned from
his ninth stint in Iraq.
27
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I'm not one of these people
that got into war photography
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for the rush.
29
00:03:33,013 --> 00:03:36,481
I'm not into adventure sports
or anything like that either.
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00:03:36,516 --> 00:03:39,851
I mean,
I believe in photography,
I believe in the role
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that journalists
and photographers
specifically play
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in our whole system
of international conflict
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and how we resolve differences.
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We have a role to play
and I would like to be involved
in that.
35
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Well, I'm gonna guess this is
maybe the earliest picture
36
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I've got of Chris and this is me
taking this photo
37
00:04:05,312 --> 00:04:09,414
just like,
"Here I am in high school"
and, lo and behold,
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there's the guy who would end up
being my best friend.
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Pretty young, Chris.
40
00:04:16,623 --> 00:04:17,356
Um...
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This is a tiny little portion
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of all of the experiences that
he had throughout his life.
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Experiences that practically
no one in the world
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has ever had.
45
00:04:37,644 --> 00:04:44,649
He had a front seat
to every major world event
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of the last decade.
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He was my best friend
but that doesn't even begin
48
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to scratch the surface
of how I felt about him.
49
00:04:56,463 --> 00:04:59,764
And there's an instinct
that I've got that
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parts of him are still
out there somewhere.
51
00:05:01,968 --> 00:05:05,770
That parts of him
can be found in the people
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00:05:05,805 --> 00:05:08,340
and the places
that were important to him.
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Some of the most powerful,
in my opinion anyway,
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some of
the most powerful pictures
55
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that you've taken
were in Liberia
and it just seems to me
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in looking at them that
you had a deeper connection
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to what was going on there.
Am I right?
58
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I was quite fond, yeah,
of Liberians and Liberia.
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00:05:50,049 --> 00:05:52,817
I was passionate
about that war I think
60
00:05:52,852 --> 00:05:55,553
because it was a war
that could be
really easily prevented.
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00:05:55,588 --> 00:05:56,721
You know, there were things that
the international community
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00:05:56,756 --> 00:05:58,890
could have done that summer
that would have prevented
63
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the caustic situation there.
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00:06:04,764 --> 00:06:06,731
Chris had a very firm belief
65
00:06:06,766 --> 00:06:09,401
in what he wanted
his photography to be about.
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I could drop him
into any situation
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00:06:16,776 --> 00:06:19,444
and I didn't have to explain
why he was there.
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He believed in the power
of shining a light
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in places that otherwise
would be dark.
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In 2003,
I was covering what ended up
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00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:50,442
being the climax
of the Liberian civil war
in West Africa.
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The rebels were starting
to move in towards Monrovia,
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towards the capital, trying
to push Charles Taylor
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out of power, and you know,
we were hearing about a lot
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00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:03,121
of attacks on civilians,
atrocities, massacres.
76
00:07:04,824 --> 00:07:07,158
And we were going and trying
to verify this stuff.
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I met Chris, I was
helping him out
going to the frontlines
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to cover a war
that we were dying,
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we were killing each other.
80
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Chris left United States
that is more peaceful
81
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,614
and came here to tell our story
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and I can recall
the risks that he took.
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Photographers always want to go
where there is shooting.
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They say,
"Why is that shooting going on?"
They say, "I want to get there."
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The armies on both sides
at this point
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had just broken down
into pure militia.
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They were mostly shirtless,
a lot of child soldiers.
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Bullets flying everywhere.
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We'd see children
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as young as seven, eight,
nine years old
with AK-47s.
91
00:08:02,849 --> 00:08:06,150
These kids were starving,
hungry, hopped up on drugs
92
00:08:06,185 --> 00:08:08,786
that they'd been given
by the commanders.
93
00:08:08,821 --> 00:08:11,856
There was an element
of real madness to it.
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00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,562
There was one particularly
bad day when I had been out,
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00:08:17,597 --> 00:08:19,097
I'd been caught
in this mortar barrage,
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00:08:20,266 --> 00:08:21,799
and I remember running,
trying to get back
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00:08:21,834 --> 00:08:24,135
to the hotel because it
had a thick concrete ceiling
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00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:27,772
and I thought I could hide
in the basement
or something and be safe.
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00:08:27,807 --> 00:08:30,141
A few minutes later,
the school across the street
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00:08:30,176 --> 00:08:32,744
was hit
with a huge artillery shell.
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There were all these civilians
packed into the courtyard,
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they'd been taking refuge there
and the shell dropped
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right in the middle of them.
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And Chris ran into the hotel
and he grabbed me
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and he said,
"The school's been hit
across the street,
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00:08:46,626 --> 00:08:48,960
we've gotta go over
and photograph."
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And I was so shell shocked
I was like,
"No more, I'm done, I can't."
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I just, sort of,
cowered in the hotel,
I couldn't go back out.
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He went back out into it.
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00:09:00,273 --> 00:09:03,207
He photographed the whole thing
and he helped get people
to the hospital.
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00:09:11,618 --> 00:09:15,186
You learn how
to face your fears,
I guess, in these situations.
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00:09:15,221 --> 00:09:17,055
I mean if you don't do it,
you've wasted all your time,
right?
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00:09:17,090 --> 00:09:19,657
I mean, you've spent
all this time and difficulty
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00:09:19,692 --> 00:09:22,594
getting to these situations
to do the work
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that you feel
that needs to be done
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and if you don't go that
final mile to actually perform
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under the stressful situations,
then you've wasted
all your time.
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The frontline of the war
for most of the summer
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was this pair of bridges
and rebel troops
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00:09:43,816 --> 00:09:45,951
were on one side
and the government troops
were on the other.
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00:09:50,123 --> 00:09:55,093
And the first couple days that
that area was the front-line,
I ventured down there.
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00:09:56,863 --> 00:09:58,163
We were
with the government soldiers
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00:09:58,198 --> 00:10:00,264
just before
they were about to charge
the bridge and I thought
124
00:10:00,299 --> 00:10:02,634
it would be way too dangerous
to do those.
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00:10:02,669 --> 00:10:05,937
It was just exposed,
nowhere to hide,
nowhere to duck,
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00:10:05,972 --> 00:10:08,006
bullets were flying everywhere.
127
00:10:08,041 --> 00:10:10,975
But something clicked in me
at the moment
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00:10:11,010 --> 00:10:13,311
when I was thinking about it
and just as they
were about to charge.
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00:10:13,346 --> 00:10:16,814
You know, I kind of realized
at that moment
that my whole career
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00:10:16,849 --> 00:10:18,149
as a photographer in
a way had been leading up
131
00:10:18,184 --> 00:10:18,850
to a moment like that.
132
00:10:19,952 --> 00:10:22,820
And that the picture
was on the bridge,
133
00:10:22,855 --> 00:10:25,256
it wasn't 50 feet away
from the middle of the bridge,
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00:10:25,291 --> 00:10:26,991
it was on the bridge.
135
00:10:27,026 --> 00:10:27,825
There was no shortcut to that.
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00:10:54,854 --> 00:10:57,321
This is the iconic photo.
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00:10:57,356 --> 00:11:01,025
You know, and Chris at his best
which was often,
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00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:04,729
he had the ability
to kind of find those photos.
139
00:11:04,764 --> 00:11:08,399
I think when I first saw it,
it was immediate concern
for his safety.
140
00:11:08,434 --> 00:11:10,435
I was just like, man,
he's getting close.
141
00:11:13,005 --> 00:11:15,139
The thing you have to understand
in a situation like that
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00:11:15,174 --> 00:11:16,841
there's still
probably bullets flying.
143
00:11:16,876 --> 00:11:19,744
You're worried
about being exposed.
144
00:11:19,779 --> 00:11:24,148
And being able to keep
a presence of mind
145
00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:26,084
to really focus on the subject,
146
00:11:26,119 --> 00:11:28,720
to frame the subject,
to get that kind
of pinnacle moment
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00:11:28,755 --> 00:11:31,823
is really pretty damn difficult.
148
00:11:31,858 --> 00:11:33,758
When you'd hear him
tell the story about
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00:11:33,793 --> 00:11:36,427
how dangerous that bridge was
and how much metal
150
00:11:36,462 --> 00:11:40,298
was flying around and you think,
to make this graceful photograph
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00:11:40,333 --> 00:11:44,202
amid all that is just amazing.
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00:11:45,238 --> 00:11:46,938
And it's one thing
that it happened,
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00:11:46,973 --> 00:11:50,108
it's another thing that
there's another person
documenting it.
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00:11:50,143 --> 00:11:51,409
One of
the most compelling photos
155
00:11:51,444 --> 00:11:55,913
from Liberia is the very young
Liberian soldier
156
00:11:55,948 --> 00:11:57,982
who is jumping for joy,
he just hit his target.
157
00:11:59,452 --> 00:12:02,086
That picture,
I'm still not quite sure
158
00:12:02,121 --> 00:12:04,255
what it means, you know,
it has an ambiguity to me
159
00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:07,959
that is still kind of,
I'm exploring, I think.
160
00:12:07,994 --> 00:12:12,130
Does it celebrate war
or is it something else?
161
00:12:12,165 --> 00:12:14,265
I think
a lot of different people
would bring different things
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00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:15,399
away from that picture
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00:12:15,435 --> 00:12:17,802
and even I haven't quite
figured out what it all means.
164
00:12:24,510 --> 00:12:30,214
I remember
looking at all the pictures
that came out of Liberia.
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00:12:30,249 --> 00:12:30,915
It was mayhem.
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00:12:32,251 --> 00:12:38,423
And I think Chris spent a lot
of time through his actions...
167
00:12:44,030 --> 00:12:47,866
...deeply empathizing
with people
and their conditions.
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00:12:50,036 --> 00:12:55,039
And really wanted
the world to empathize
with their conditions, too.
169
00:13:01,547 --> 00:13:04,048
There was about
maybe 10 photographers
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00:13:04,083 --> 00:13:06,484
that pitched up there,
and we started saturating
171
00:13:06,519 --> 00:13:09,253
the news with images
from the war.
172
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,168
Suddenly, the UN got involved
and held hearings
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00:13:24,203 --> 00:13:26,304
and started assembling
a peacekeeping force.
174
00:13:26,339 --> 00:13:28,039
I mean, there was
a real cause and effect.
175
00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:50,328
Did Chris ever talk
to you about why he felt
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00:13:50,363 --> 00:13:53,998
it was so important to
go cover these conflicts?
177
00:13:54,033 --> 00:13:58,569
Well, I told him a few stories
you see when they were children,
you see.
178
00:13:58,604 --> 00:14:03,074
And they always said,
"Mom, tell a story
about your childhood," you see.
179
00:14:03,109 --> 00:14:07,111
So, in the evenings I would
then tell them stories
the way I grew up.
180
00:14:07,146 --> 00:14:11,282
You see, it was totally
different than it was
here in the States.
181
00:14:11,317 --> 00:14:13,484
Four thousand planes
smashed the Atlantic wall...
182
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:16,087
When the war started,
Second World War,
183
00:14:16,122 --> 00:14:18,890
it creeped closer and closer
into the small towns.
184
00:14:20,259 --> 00:14:22,393
So I told him some stories.
185
00:14:22,428 --> 00:14:25,429
Planes being shot down,
and then they were burning,
you see,
186
00:14:25,464 --> 00:14:29,267
and then people jumped out
and things like that.
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How 'bout you,
Chris, what scares you?
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00:14:40,246 --> 00:14:41,045
Nothing.
189
00:14:41,580 --> 00:14:42,947
Sure.
190
00:14:42,982 --> 00:14:44,015
Yeah.
191
00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:45,049
But what really scares you?
192
00:14:46,252 --> 00:14:47,252
Nothing really does scare me.
193
00:14:48,554 --> 00:14:52,556
He was always
a very independent, self assured
194
00:14:52,591 --> 00:14:54,091
already when he was small.
195
00:14:54,126 --> 00:14:55,526
And I don't know.
196
00:14:56,362 --> 00:14:58,930
Maybe genes, maybe,
I don't know.
197
00:14:58,965 --> 00:15:00,431
You knew that he was going to be
198
00:15:00,466 --> 00:15:03,367
a photographer, right, I mean,
was it clear to you?
199
00:15:03,402 --> 00:15:07,471
Uh, yeah, he was
always talking about that.
200
00:15:07,506 --> 00:15:10,975
My husband was very, very upset
and I told my husband,
201
00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:15,446
I said, "Zip it, whatever
he wants to do, he will do
202
00:15:15,481 --> 00:15:16,314
and leave him alone."
203
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:22,987
It was very important to me
and I said,
"You have the opportunity,
204
00:15:23,022 --> 00:15:27,959
you have the means,
you have everything
here, what we did not have."
205
00:15:27,994 --> 00:15:31,395
You see, I grew up
in the turmoil there.
206
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:32,964
What we did not have.
207
00:15:32,999 --> 00:15:34,532
I said, "use it."
208
00:15:42,341 --> 00:15:46,043
Chris and I were so intent
on becoming journalists
209
00:15:46,078 --> 00:15:48,646
that we oftentimes
would try to skip ahead
210
00:15:48,681 --> 00:15:51,549
of what we were learning
in college and just go out
and do it.
211
00:15:54,687 --> 00:15:56,620
Our first assignment together
212
00:15:56,655 --> 00:15:59,657
was to cover Bill Clinton's
inauguration in 1993.
213
00:15:59,692 --> 00:16:03,627
He calls me up and says,
"Come on, let's go cover this
for the student newspaper."
214
00:16:03,662 --> 00:16:07,164
We arrived in Washington
without press credentials
215
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:10,001
or even the proper attire
to be able to get into
216
00:16:10,036 --> 00:16:12,169
an inaugural ball
to get the story
217
00:16:12,204 --> 00:16:16,040
that we needed, so Chris
managed to bluff his way
218
00:16:16,075 --> 00:16:19,543
into securing a pair
of all-access passes
219
00:16:19,578 --> 00:16:23,647
and I managed to break into
my dead uncle's wardrobe
220
00:16:23,682 --> 00:16:28,519
and steal a couple of
hugely oversized shirts
221
00:16:28,554 --> 00:16:30,054
and sport coats.
222
00:16:30,089 --> 00:16:32,123
But we ended up
getting into the ball
223
00:16:32,158 --> 00:16:34,525
and getting the shot
that we needed,
224
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,361
so it worked out perfectly.
225
00:16:41,534 --> 00:16:45,436
Chris hired me as an intern
after I got out of college.
226
00:16:45,471 --> 00:16:48,773
I immediately saw,
I was really surprised
how young he was.
227
00:16:48,808 --> 00:16:51,008
I mean,
here's a guy who's my age.
228
00:16:51,043 --> 00:16:53,277
He was chief photographer
at a paper.
229
00:16:53,312 --> 00:16:56,213
Um, however small
the newspaper was,
he was still running the show.
230
00:16:56,248 --> 00:17:00,551
You know, police scanners
always on next to his bed,
231
00:17:00,586 --> 00:17:05,589
chasing every single bit
of spot news
that there was out there.
232
00:17:05,624 --> 00:17:09,026
The first very sophomoric thing
a young photographer does
233
00:17:09,061 --> 00:17:11,095
is look at National Geographic
and say,
234
00:17:11,130 --> 00:17:14,031
"Oh, my gosh,
I could shoot those pictures."
235
00:17:14,066 --> 00:17:18,536
Chris was pretty adamant that
he was gonna go
shoot those pictures.
236
00:17:18,571 --> 00:17:24,141
And that he was gonna figure out
the transit route to go do that.
237
00:17:24,176 --> 00:17:27,678
Working in a small
daily newspaper in America
238
00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:30,347
to going
and covering international wars
239
00:17:30,382 --> 00:17:35,553
is a pretty big step and there's
no instruction manual
240
00:17:35,588 --> 00:17:38,255
to kind of tell you
how to do it.
241
00:17:38,290 --> 00:17:41,592
Just to sell everything
and go off to Kosovo
242
00:17:41,627 --> 00:17:45,329
is a bit of a risky move,
but we were ready
to make that jump.
243
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:52,770
Being really ambitious,
young, inexperienced,
244
00:17:52,805 --> 00:17:56,240
you don't really have
the proper idea
of how much danger
245
00:17:56,275 --> 00:17:59,110
you're putting yourself in
and it's very common
246
00:17:59,145 --> 00:18:01,745
to just think that
nothing can happen to you,
247
00:18:01,780 --> 00:18:04,381
that you're an observer
and somehow that protects you.
248
00:18:04,416 --> 00:18:06,717
But when there's actual combat
going on,
249
00:18:06,752 --> 00:18:09,153
that is the only thing
that teaches you,
250
00:18:09,188 --> 00:18:12,356
this is what it really means
to be here.
251
00:18:14,126 --> 00:18:18,796
This is where
you really start to see
what people are made of
252
00:18:18,831 --> 00:18:22,466
and I could see what Chris
was made of and was clear
that this wasn't gonna be
253
00:18:22,501 --> 00:18:25,303
the last trip to Kosovo
or any other place for him.
254
00:18:27,806 --> 00:18:32,109
Well, to be very honest,
he was there three times,
I heard.
255
00:18:32,144 --> 00:18:34,278
But we only knew of one time.
256
00:18:34,313 --> 00:18:37,281
He said, "I didn't want
to worry you guys."
257
00:18:37,316 --> 00:18:40,851
I was always trusting
his judgment, you see.
258
00:18:40,886 --> 00:18:44,722
So, when I didn't hear from him
for two or three weeks or so,
259
00:18:44,757 --> 00:18:45,823
well, he was busy.
260
00:19:28,267 --> 00:19:30,601
Getty Images
wanted to start
a news wire service.
261
00:19:32,404 --> 00:19:33,871
We were looking
to make a splash,
262
00:19:33,906 --> 00:19:36,574
we were looking to make
our mark in the news scene.
263
00:19:36,609 --> 00:19:42,580
He brought that higher level
of photography with him.
264
00:19:42,615 --> 00:19:45,583
It really influenced
all the other photographers
265
00:19:45,618 --> 00:19:47,751
who were working
with Getty at the time.
266
00:19:47,786 --> 00:19:50,588
You could call it
the "Hondros effect".
267
00:19:50,623 --> 00:19:52,356
The early days of Getty,
268
00:19:52,391 --> 00:19:54,858
we were really the only wire
that was doing something,
269
00:19:54,893 --> 00:19:55,892
trying to do something different
270
00:19:55,928 --> 00:19:58,262
and kind of fresh
and certainly more creative
271
00:19:58,297 --> 00:20:01,332
in a broader interpretation
of what a news photograph
272
00:20:01,367 --> 00:20:02,934
is and can be.
273
00:20:06,472 --> 00:20:09,540
The absolute key for us
in starting our news business
274
00:20:09,575 --> 00:20:12,777
was that we wanted
the photographers
to tell the story.
275
00:20:14,413 --> 00:20:16,447
And in talking to Chris,
that's exactly
276
00:20:16,482 --> 00:20:19,617
what he was doing and what
he really, really wanted to do.
277
00:20:19,652 --> 00:20:22,586
He wanted that flexibility
and that ability
278
00:20:22,621 --> 00:20:24,922
to tell the story
the way he saw it.
279
00:20:26,292 --> 00:20:28,259
And for him,
the story was always about
280
00:20:28,294 --> 00:20:31,295
the people being impacted
by the conflict
281
00:20:31,330 --> 00:20:35,766
or by the disaster as opposed
to the disaster itself.
282
00:20:35,801 --> 00:20:37,635
We have
a breaking news story
to tell you about,
283
00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:40,271
apparently,
a plane has just crashed
284
00:20:40,306 --> 00:20:42,773
into the World Trade Center
here in New York City.
285
00:20:42,808 --> 00:20:45,576
It happened just
a few moments ago apparently.
286
00:20:45,611 --> 00:20:48,345
The morning of September 11th,
I got a phone call
287
00:20:48,380 --> 00:20:51,415
from Chris saying,
"Turn on the television set."
288
00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:54,418
...a great deal of concern.
289
00:20:54,453 --> 00:20:56,620
"You've gotta
quit your job today,
290
00:20:56,655 --> 00:20:57,822
you should come
to New York tonight."
291
00:20:59,158 --> 00:21:03,961
I was holding a baby bottle
or changing a diaper
or something
292
00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:07,765
and I thought a lot about how
293
00:21:08,767 --> 00:21:10,401
our lives diverged
at that point.
294
00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:16,807
I'll never forget
it was some days after 9/11
295
00:21:16,842 --> 00:21:20,911
and we were, you know,
all in the office,
we were working crazy hours
296
00:21:20,946 --> 00:21:25,482
and suddenly I get word
that Hondros is on a plane
to Pakistan.
297
00:21:25,517 --> 00:21:26,584
And I just said, "What?"
298
00:21:27,686 --> 00:21:29,287
I hadn't even thought
about Pakistan.
299
00:21:32,691 --> 00:21:35,826
He was probably
a half step ahead of us
300
00:21:35,861 --> 00:21:39,296
in terms of where was this
story going next,
301
00:21:39,331 --> 00:21:41,799
where was this
gonna be happening, so, usually,
302
00:21:41,834 --> 00:21:43,701
he would just call
in the morning and say,
303
00:21:43,736 --> 00:21:46,036
"Hey, this is what I'm doing
rather than wait
304
00:21:46,071 --> 00:21:48,339
for anyone to go
and send him anywhere."
305
00:21:50,709 --> 00:21:54,545
Really, inevitably, that moment
was the beginning of Chris
just going.
306
00:21:56,415 --> 00:22:00,884
There was nothing
to turn him back
and for the next 10 years,
307
00:22:00,919 --> 00:22:01,686
that's all he did, he went.
308
00:22:02,855 --> 00:22:04,888
From then on,
I was seeing Chris' work on
309
00:22:04,923 --> 00:22:06,857
the cover of every newspaper
in the world.
310
00:22:14,032 --> 00:22:15,899
Do you know what spot news is?
311
00:22:15,934 --> 00:22:19,503
You know,
spot news is car crash,
bomb blows up...
312
00:22:21,373 --> 00:22:22,773
...plane into a building.
313
00:22:23,842 --> 00:22:25,943
The photos
from that specific day...
314
00:22:29,148 --> 00:22:31,415
have a lot of impact,
a lot of emotion.
315
00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:39,757
But I think Chris
was deeply interested
in how the story transpired.
316
00:22:39,792 --> 00:22:42,126
What wisdom are we supposed
to derive from this?
317
00:22:44,129 --> 00:22:47,565
And I think Chris felt
a responsibility to answer
a lot of those questions.
318
00:23:10,989 --> 00:23:12,089
When the invasion started,
319
00:23:12,124 --> 00:23:16,126
I rented a SUV and...
320
00:23:16,161 --> 00:23:18,596
and drove across the border
into Iraq.
321
00:23:19,998 --> 00:23:22,599
Entering Baghdad
when the city was going to fall
322
00:23:22,634 --> 00:23:25,702
would be of supreme
historical importance.
323
00:23:25,737 --> 00:23:27,504
You want to be there
when that happened.
324
00:23:27,539 --> 00:23:30,474
And in fact, we came across
another couple of SUVs
325
00:23:30,509 --> 00:23:32,576
with another couple of
Newsweek journalists
326
00:23:32,611 --> 00:23:35,179
who were also hell-bent
on making it to Baghdad
327
00:23:35,214 --> 00:23:36,447
before anybody else.
328
00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:40,484
Shot for a few days, no problem.
329
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:42,653
Followed the main highway
that was leading towards Baghdad
330
00:23:42,688 --> 00:23:45,656
which was a long snaking column
331
00:23:45,691 --> 00:23:48,526
of American armored vehicles,
hundreds of miles long.
332
00:23:49,928 --> 00:23:52,863
I should have taken my time
with it, I should have
just stayed back
333
00:23:52,898 --> 00:23:55,466
and slowly inched my way up,
but I was a little bit eager
334
00:23:55,501 --> 00:23:58,469
and I'd driven up on day three
of the war
335
00:23:58,504 --> 00:23:59,770
about halfway to Baghdad.
336
00:24:00,873 --> 00:24:02,072
You know,
it was a very calm afternoon,
337
00:24:02,107 --> 00:24:03,807
nothing was going on,
we were just following
338
00:24:03,842 --> 00:24:07,444
a convoy of Marines
and there was
absolutely no fighting,
339
00:24:07,479 --> 00:24:10,647
there was no resistance
whatsoever.
340
00:24:10,682 --> 00:24:12,683
The only disappointment
was the Marine unit
341
00:24:12,718 --> 00:24:15,452
that we'd ended up following
was being diverted,
342
00:24:15,487 --> 00:24:19,089
so there was
another Marine convoy
343
00:24:19,124 --> 00:24:21,458
maybe two or three
kilometers ahead
344
00:24:21,493 --> 00:24:23,460
and we tried
to hook up with them
345
00:24:23,495 --> 00:24:26,530
which meant traveling
those two or three kilometers
in no man's land,
346
00:24:26,565 --> 00:24:29,533
so to speak, without
any convoy protection.
347
00:24:29,568 --> 00:24:31,668
We are now gonna talk
to Chris Hondros,
348
00:24:31,703 --> 00:24:34,805
the infamous photographer
with Getty Images.
349
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,541
So, Chris, tell us,
what are you thinking?
350
00:24:37,576 --> 00:24:41,545
I'm thinking that I'm amazed
that they're letting us drive
this deep into Iraq.
351
00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:45,716
On the right side,
I remember there was
a very large gas station
352
00:24:45,751 --> 00:24:50,521
and I just remember hearing,
you know, gunfire,
353
00:24:50,556 --> 00:24:54,858
and I looked over
and there was at least
10 to 15 Iraqi soldiers,
354
00:24:54,893 --> 00:24:57,728
all in fatigues, shooting at us.
355
00:24:57,763 --> 00:25:00,197
The tires on the right side
of the car
were completely blown out
356
00:25:00,232 --> 00:25:02,533
and so we're traveling on rims.
357
00:25:03,835 --> 00:25:07,204
And then we ditched the car,
grabbed what we could,
358
00:25:07,239 --> 00:25:14,811
and we're so lost
on an Iraqi farm field
as night fell for an evening.
359
00:25:14,846 --> 00:25:16,246
It was bad.
360
00:25:16,281 --> 00:25:20,017
Chris was on the phone
with his Getty folks
361
00:25:20,052 --> 00:25:24,221
back in New York who were being
advised by Marine commanders
362
00:25:24,256 --> 00:25:26,523
to hunker down, dig a hole,
363
00:25:26,558 --> 00:25:27,224
and wait until the morning.
364
00:25:28,794 --> 00:25:33,797
I thought it was a really
bad idea because you're
basically a sitting duck.
365
00:25:33,832 --> 00:25:38,068
It...
It was, uh...
It was hard to convince Chris.
366
00:25:38,103 --> 00:25:42,539
He, he was dead set
on staying put.
367
00:25:42,574 --> 00:25:45,776
He was in this tunnel thinking
that this is what
he's going to do.
368
00:25:45,811 --> 00:25:47,044
That's how it's going
to resolve itself,
369
00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:52,616
by staying in a hole and waiting
to be rescued in the morning.
370
00:25:52,651 --> 00:25:53,984
I kept saying, well,
come morning,
371
00:25:54,019 --> 00:25:56,219
everyone's going to be able
to see you,
including the Iraqis.
372
00:25:56,254 --> 00:25:57,955
They're going to find you,
373
00:25:57,990 --> 00:26:01,758
they're going to follow
the footprints in the sand.
374
00:26:01,793 --> 00:26:06,163
I think that sort of convinced
him that that was
the wrong decision.
375
00:26:06,198 --> 00:26:09,266
When I tell you "convincing",
I had to literally grab him
by his collar,
376
00:26:09,301 --> 00:26:14,037
by his shirt, and shake him
and I was like slapping his face
377
00:26:14,072 --> 00:26:17,074
because we felt like
you cannot stay in the desert.
378
00:26:17,109 --> 00:26:20,978
You have to come with us,
we're taking you
whether you like it or not.
379
00:26:21,013 --> 00:26:23,981
And so, we walked in
the complete darkness
for 10 kilometers.
380
00:26:24,016 --> 00:26:25,349
Took us about six
or seven hours,
381
00:26:26,652 --> 00:26:29,119
and made it
to an army staging area.
382
00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:34,257
It also ended
my drive to Baghdad
383
00:26:34,292 --> 00:26:38,095
because I lost the truck,
I lost a lot of equipment
and gear.
384
00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:41,298
So, I stayed with those
soldiers who picked us up
385
00:26:41,333 --> 00:26:43,667
for a few days
but basically then,
386
00:26:43,702 --> 00:26:46,169
they had helicopters
that were going back
on refueling
387
00:26:46,204 --> 00:26:47,771
and I got on one of those
388
00:26:47,806 --> 00:26:49,940
with my tail between my legs.
389
00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:53,176
We were stuck in the desert
for three days.
390
00:26:53,211 --> 00:26:55,312
There was a raging sand storm.
391
00:26:56,648 --> 00:26:59,149
You couldn't see anything
but you could see
392
00:26:59,184 --> 00:27:04,655
Chris Hondros' titanium white,
iridescent turtleneck.
393
00:27:06,792 --> 00:27:08,325
You know Egyptian cotton.
394
00:27:10,829 --> 00:27:11,729
So typical Chris.
395
00:27:12,664 --> 00:27:15,165
I pushed it too far.
396
00:27:17,235 --> 00:27:22,172
I thought that we actually just
drove on protected light SUVs
across the border.
397
00:27:22,207 --> 00:27:23,741
It's incomprehensible to me.
398
00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:27,377
I mean I think Chris
and I were really stupid
399
00:27:27,412 --> 00:27:28,846
to get ourselves
in that situation.
400
00:27:30,348 --> 00:27:32,015
Photojournalists in order
to survive,
401
00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:35,352
we need a level of arrogance
and I felt it,
402
00:27:35,387 --> 00:27:37,854
I see it in my colleagues,
and I've seen it in Chris.
403
00:27:37,889 --> 00:27:39,823
I have a very good sense
that he felt this way.
404
00:27:39,858 --> 00:27:42,793
A very high, supreme
confidence in his ability
405
00:27:42,828 --> 00:27:44,127
to survive everything.
406
00:27:44,162 --> 00:27:44,895
A cockiness.
407
00:27:45,931 --> 00:27:47,898
Who doesn't feel
that way sometimes.
408
00:27:47,933 --> 00:27:50,701
You cover dozens of conflicts,
multiple times,
409
00:27:50,736 --> 00:27:52,736
multiple things and nothing
happens to you
410
00:27:52,771 --> 00:27:54,671
or when things do happen to you,
411
00:27:54,706 --> 00:27:57,941
you're able to, like,
brush off your pants
and walk away.
412
00:27:59,945 --> 00:28:02,279
Chris definitely
had a tolerance for risk
413
00:28:02,314 --> 00:28:04,247
that I just don't have.
414
00:28:04,282 --> 00:28:07,084
And I wasn't, I don't know,
I wasn't born with that.
415
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,720
He could be, I don't want to use
the word "cavalier,"
416
00:28:09,755 --> 00:28:12,856
but he had
this incredible optimism.
417
00:28:14,926 --> 00:28:16,226
He was done, he was gonna
go home for a while
418
00:28:16,261 --> 00:28:18,028
and chill out and recover.
419
00:28:18,063 --> 00:28:21,398
So I drove him from Baghdad
down to the southern border
420
00:28:21,433 --> 00:28:24,034
and we see a sign for the town
421
00:28:24,069 --> 00:28:28,138
where they were shot up
and I'll never forget it.
422
00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:30,974
He looks at me, he's like,
"Let's just take a spin
through the market,
423
00:28:31,009 --> 00:28:34,745
I bet you my SAT phone,
we can find
my cameras and SAT phone."
424
00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:38,081
And I just immediately
gunned it just to, like, 120,
425
00:28:38,116 --> 00:28:39,883
just pretend
I never even heard it,
Chris, didn't hear it.
426
00:28:58,336 --> 00:29:03,373
I think we was a great coper,
if that's even a word.
427
00:29:03,408 --> 00:29:05,142
Because he had such a rich life.
428
00:29:07,345 --> 00:29:08,511
I didn't have to worry about him
429
00:29:08,546 --> 00:29:12,315
because I knew
that he was always
engaging with people
430
00:29:12,350 --> 00:29:14,251
in ways that let him process
what he saw.
431
00:29:16,054 --> 00:29:19,823
Well, Chris is the type of guy
that you just
became friends with
432
00:29:19,858 --> 00:29:22,526
really fast
and he's really open.
433
00:29:22,561 --> 00:29:25,162
And he actually,
one of the things that
434
00:29:25,197 --> 00:29:28,465
I didn't really understand
about Chris
435
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:34,504
until much later in our
friendship was that the scope
of friends that he had.
436
00:29:34,539 --> 00:29:37,440
Whether they're
translators, drivers,
friends he met along the way,
437
00:29:37,475 --> 00:29:39,976
doesn't matter who they were,
438
00:29:40,011 --> 00:29:43,079
he actually put
an incredible amount of work
439
00:29:43,114 --> 00:29:47,350
and energy into staying
connected to those people.
440
00:29:47,385 --> 00:29:51,522
And he really had this
global presence about him.
441
00:29:53,992 --> 00:29:55,892
Chris is one of these guys
that just could really
442
00:29:55,927 --> 00:29:57,961
have the world open its doors
to him.
443
00:29:57,996 --> 00:30:01,431
He had a just, always
had a smile on his face,
444
00:30:01,466 --> 00:30:03,967
was very curious
about everything.
445
00:30:04,002 --> 00:30:06,536
You know,
he would just win friends,
you know,
446
00:30:06,571 --> 00:30:08,271
and if you're going to be
successful at this profession,
447
00:30:08,306 --> 00:30:09,506
you have to have that ability.
448
00:30:11,877 --> 00:30:16,880
Chris was always very
interested in relationships.
449
00:30:16,915 --> 00:30:21,585
He would travel
around the globe watering,
450
00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:24,488
but essentially
nurturing relationships.
451
00:30:26,391 --> 00:30:29,926
He was just like that,
and you feel so often
452
00:30:29,961 --> 00:30:33,897
that when you're in these
environments and you're,
you know, you're sharing,
453
00:30:33,932 --> 00:30:35,465
I don't want
to say you're taking,
but you're sharing
454
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:38,335
these moments with people,
you get to go home to your life.
455
00:30:39,971 --> 00:30:41,905
And you know you
leave these people behind
456
00:30:41,940 --> 00:30:43,207
and their situations
that they can't leave.
457
00:30:46,978 --> 00:30:51,381
He wanted
to somehow do something
about that for people
458
00:30:51,416 --> 00:30:54,885
and give them an opportunity
that they would never
otherwise have.
459
00:30:57,355 --> 00:30:59,923
Ladies and gentlemen,
very warm welcome to Monrovia.
460
00:31:21,379 --> 00:31:23,113
Joseph, hey.
461
00:31:24,215 --> 00:31:25,348
Good to meet you.
462
00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:26,049
Nice to meet you.
463
00:31:27,085 --> 00:31:28,418
-How are you?
-I'm fine.
464
00:31:28,453 --> 00:31:30,287
Good, good.
Thank you for meeting with us.
465
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:33,090
-Go inside?
-Thank you, yeah.
466
00:31:37,128 --> 00:31:39,229
Wow, are these all shrapnel
or bullets?
467
00:31:39,264 --> 00:31:41,565
These are RPG and these ones
are bullets.
468
00:31:43,068 --> 00:31:43,967
Wow.
469
00:32:31,349 --> 00:32:34,017
I never sort of
connected with that fighter,
470
00:32:34,052 --> 00:32:36,386
and as the picture got used
all over the world,
471
00:32:36,421 --> 00:32:39,522
people asked me
if I knew his story
or how old he was,
472
00:32:39,557 --> 00:32:42,158
whether he survived the war,
anything like that,
and I didn't know.
473
00:32:42,193 --> 00:32:45,061
I didn't realize the impact
the picture was going to have.
474
00:32:45,096 --> 00:32:48,031
But my colleague at Getty,
Spencer Platt,
475
00:32:48,066 --> 00:32:50,500
ended up going to Liberia
a month or two later
476
00:32:50,535 --> 00:32:54,304
and he told me
that he was driving around
477
00:32:54,339 --> 00:32:59,209
in an area and saw that fighter
you know, running around,
478
00:32:59,244 --> 00:33:01,044
so he was pretty sure
that he had survived.
479
00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:02,145
I said, "Well, how do you know
it was him?"
480
00:33:02,180 --> 00:33:04,247
He said, "Well, I recognized
him from the picture.
481
00:33:04,282 --> 00:33:06,383
And also he had the printout
from the weekend pictures
482
00:33:06,418 --> 00:33:09,185
on MSNBC taped to
his windshield of his truck,
you know.
483
00:33:09,220 --> 00:33:13,323
He was extremely
proud of that picture
of him in the middle of battle.
484
00:33:13,358 --> 00:33:16,626
So, a few years later,
when I went back to cover
485
00:33:16,661 --> 00:33:20,030
the Liberian elections in 2005,
486
00:33:20,065 --> 00:33:23,299
I thought that for sure
I should try to track him down.
487
00:33:33,378 --> 00:33:35,012
Said, "Look...
488
00:34:44,382 --> 00:34:47,184
How much education
had you had already
at that point?
489
00:35:37,669 --> 00:35:40,236
You know there's a line
that says, you know,
490
00:35:40,271 --> 00:35:43,506
"If you kill one man,
you kill all of humanity",
491
00:35:43,541 --> 00:35:44,540
I'm paraphrasing.
492
00:35:44,576 --> 00:35:47,143
If you save one man,
you save all of humanity.
493
00:35:47,178 --> 00:35:50,580
I think that that's
the way Chris was.
494
00:35:52,417 --> 00:35:54,918
He nurtured all of his
relationships that same way.
495
00:36:06,831 --> 00:36:08,331
I will need you back.
496
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:15,471
There's so many people
here in the church
and everything.
497
00:36:15,506 --> 00:36:17,240
"Aren't you worried?" I said.
498
00:36:17,275 --> 00:36:19,842
"Even if I worry, you see,
there's nothing
going to change."
499
00:36:19,877 --> 00:36:24,514
I cannot tell him, you stay home
because I'm worried, you see.
500
00:36:24,549 --> 00:36:25,682
You cannot do that.
501
00:36:25,717 --> 00:36:26,550
Wait!
502
00:36:28,386 --> 00:36:31,187
Smoke it!
Down the street, hurry up!
503
00:36:31,222 --> 00:36:33,423
Smoke it! Smoke it!
504
00:36:33,458 --> 00:36:34,757
The only thing
that I always told him,
505
00:36:34,792 --> 00:36:36,693
I said, "Please be careful."
506
00:36:36,728 --> 00:36:38,661
A picture is not
worth your life.
507
00:36:38,696 --> 00:36:42,199
He said, "Oh, Mom, don't worry,
I'm careful, I'm careful."
508
00:36:48,806 --> 00:36:52,208
Most people went to Iraq
in 2003 and that was it,
the war was over.
509
00:36:52,243 --> 00:36:54,210
Chris went back
every single year,
510
00:36:54,245 --> 00:36:55,879
patrol after patrol
after patrol.
511
00:36:59,350 --> 00:37:01,851
I mean, very few journalists
are in Iraq anymore.
512
00:37:01,886 --> 00:37:02,852
And to me it's incomprehensible.
513
00:37:04,055 --> 00:37:06,756
I understand that on some level,
it's extremely dangerous.
514
00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:09,425
On the other hand, it is such
a critically important story.
515
00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:12,329
It is the foreign story
of our time bar none.
516
00:37:14,966 --> 00:37:17,567
He was dedicated
to telling that story.
517
00:37:17,602 --> 00:37:21,638
And he would go
when it was 120 degrees,
518
00:37:21,673 --> 00:37:24,341
he would go when nobody else
wanted to go anymore.
519
00:37:26,678 --> 00:37:30,747
You know,
actually, psychologically,
he was figuring this story out
520
00:37:30,782 --> 00:37:32,915
but it would start kind of
creeping over the wire,
521
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:36,319
he was getting
closer and closer.
522
00:37:37,322 --> 00:37:40,356
And then just out of the blue,
took an image
523
00:37:40,391 --> 00:37:43,860
or series of images that became
the defining pictures
of that event.
524
00:37:46,331 --> 00:37:47,630
I wanted to go
to downtown Mosul,
525
00:37:47,665 --> 00:37:48,664
I was really on him
about it and they said,
526
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:51,601
"Well, we're gonna send you
out to Tal Afar."
527
00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:53,903
And I said,
"What the hell is Tal Afar?
I've never even heard of it."
528
00:37:53,938 --> 00:37:56,372
And they said, "Well, we have
a really important mission
529
00:37:56,407 --> 00:37:57,840
going on over there,
you're really going to like it."
530
00:37:57,875 --> 00:38:02,045
Usually when they say that,
it's gonna be
some glacial boring thing.
531
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,616
So I get flown out to Tal Afar,
this dusty field base
in the middle of nowhere.
532
00:38:06,651 --> 00:38:08,584
I was actually
walking up to the platoon leader
533
00:38:08,619 --> 00:38:11,654
and the platoon leader said,
"Hey, this is our imbed today."
534
00:38:11,689 --> 00:38:12,989
And I was like, "Great."
535
00:38:13,024 --> 00:38:15,491
I always gave the journalists
a brief,
536
00:38:15,526 --> 00:38:18,428
"OK, do me a favor,
do what I tell you to do."
537
00:38:18,463 --> 00:38:19,762
"If you don't do
what I tell you to do,
538
00:38:19,797 --> 00:38:21,331
I can't keep you alive."
539
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,867
Chris' response was,
he's like, "Well,
540
00:38:24,902 --> 00:38:27,537
my first priority's
the pictures, man."
541
00:38:27,572 --> 00:38:29,839
I was like, "OK,
you're gonna get my ass shot."
542
00:38:29,874 --> 00:38:31,074
But I liked the guy.
543
00:38:33,511 --> 00:38:35,945
I got with one unit
that seemed to be pretty good,
544
00:38:35,980 --> 00:38:37,547
the Apache Company.
545
00:38:37,582 --> 00:38:39,716
Anyway they were pretty
press-friendly, these guys,
546
00:38:39,751 --> 00:38:42,686
and so we went
on a late afternoon patrol.
547
00:38:46,057 --> 00:38:47,857
The streets were empty,
548
00:38:47,892 --> 00:38:50,626
there was
a sort of curfew in effect,
it was a very tense town.
549
00:38:50,661 --> 00:38:52,362
But a car appeared
in the distance
550
00:38:53,531 --> 00:38:55,932
and started coming toward them.
551
00:38:55,967 --> 00:38:59,902
And, you know, they,
soldiers in Iraq don't let cars
come towards them.
552
00:38:59,937 --> 00:39:02,372
I mean,
they just don't let that happen
553
00:39:02,407 --> 00:39:05,742
because of the fears
of bombs and things.
554
00:39:05,777 --> 00:39:07,510
Chris and I were,
you know, standing there.
555
00:39:07,545 --> 00:39:10,012
I saw Chris taking pictures
off to my right
556
00:39:10,047 --> 00:39:12,849
and we heard the roar
of an engine,
557
00:39:12,884 --> 00:39:13,883
like "What the hell
is going on?"
558
00:39:15,420 --> 00:39:16,886
We knew something
was going to happen.
559
00:39:16,921 --> 00:39:18,388
We just knew it.
560
00:39:19,590 --> 00:39:21,657
We gave 'em warning shots,
two warning shots.
561
00:39:21,692 --> 00:39:22,892
That's one more than usual
562
00:39:23,928 --> 00:39:26,496
and they sped up.
563
00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:32,001
So company commander says,
"Stop that car,
somebody stop that car."
564
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:34,370
So, it was open fire, you know.
565
00:39:34,405 --> 00:39:37,040
And it was 20 guys
566
00:39:38,476 --> 00:39:40,443
pulling the trigger
as fast as they could.
567
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,082
We're putting down 18,
20 rounds a piece
568
00:39:46,117 --> 00:39:50,153
into this vehicle before it was
a, "Ceasefire, ceasefire."
569
00:39:51,789 --> 00:39:52,722
That's a lot of ammo.
570
00:39:54,926 --> 00:39:57,493
Sure enough,
I hear children's voices
571
00:39:57,528 --> 00:40:00,596
as they stopped the car
and I knew it was a family.
572
00:40:00,631 --> 00:40:03,466
Back door's open and kids
just tumble out of the car,
573
00:40:03,501 --> 00:40:05,735
just one after one after one,
there were six in all.
574
00:40:08,773 --> 00:40:10,573
And the parents
sitting in the front
575
00:40:10,608 --> 00:40:12,742
were just riddled with bullets
and killed instantly.
576
00:40:25,957 --> 00:40:27,924
I was like "Oh, my God.
577
00:40:29,093 --> 00:40:31,561
What did we do, what did we do?"
578
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,470
I saw this one little girl
and she had
a lot of blood on her face.
579
00:40:43,107 --> 00:40:45,975
She could have been my daughter.
580
00:40:58,022 --> 00:41:00,523
The children in the back
were incredibly enough OK
581
00:41:00,558 --> 00:41:02,559
except one of them was shot
to the abdomen.
582
00:41:03,728 --> 00:41:05,828
Chris was there, he saw it.
583
00:41:05,863 --> 00:41:08,498
He had the presence of mind
to take the photos
584
00:41:08,533 --> 00:41:11,033
and to insist that those
images were released
585
00:41:11,068 --> 00:41:14,570
even though the military
were not keen on that.
586
00:41:14,605 --> 00:41:16,639
The Major wanted me
to hold onto the photos
587
00:41:16,674 --> 00:41:18,040
for a few days, he said,
"Yeah, we appreciate
588
00:41:18,075 --> 00:41:19,842
if you didn't send those out
for a few days
589
00:41:19,877 --> 00:41:21,211
until we've done
our investigation."
590
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,680
And I said, "Well,
I have to talk to my boss
591
00:41:24,715 --> 00:41:26,582
but I think, you know, we want
to work with you there, Major,
592
00:41:26,617 --> 00:41:29,485
so I think we can probably
do something like that.
593
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,953
Let me check
but I think we'll be OK."
594
00:41:30,988 --> 00:41:34,657
Again, I'm being very casual,
very cool.
595
00:41:34,692 --> 00:41:37,059
And then I stepped
out of his office
596
00:41:37,094 --> 00:41:40,963
and ran back to my trailer
and hooked up my SAT phone
597
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:43,966
and got all the pictures
and looked at them
598
00:41:44,001 --> 00:41:45,668
and I said "Whoa",
I couldn't believe how much
599
00:41:45,703 --> 00:41:48,170
information was there,
like the pictures did come out.
600
00:41:48,205 --> 00:41:49,839
"I need to get these back
to New York
601
00:41:49,874 --> 00:41:51,340
before something happens."
602
00:41:51,376 --> 00:41:54,143
I mean they have the capability
to, like, jam all communications
from base
603
00:41:54,178 --> 00:41:56,846
including my personal SAT phone,
you know.
604
00:41:56,881 --> 00:41:58,848
And I said,
"OK, send, send, send 'em up,
605
00:41:58,883 --> 00:42:03,152
send 'em up, send 'em up,
quickly, quickly, quickly."
606
00:42:03,187 --> 00:42:04,754
So I sent 20 pictures,
607
00:42:05,756 --> 00:42:08,925
and then, whew, got them out.
608
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,728
Close the SAT phone,
close the computer.
609
00:42:19,637 --> 00:42:22,572
The impact of the Tal Afar
photos was immediate, you know.
610
00:42:22,607 --> 00:42:25,207
There had been obviously reports
through the war
611
00:42:25,242 --> 00:42:27,009
of things like that happening
but there had been
612
00:42:27,044 --> 00:42:28,311
no visual proof if you will.
613
00:42:29,747 --> 00:42:32,548
Those photographs brought
a problem that might
614
00:42:32,583 --> 00:42:33,816
have been murky
into sharp relief.
615
00:42:35,586 --> 00:42:38,721
They ran globally
for days on end.
616
00:42:40,057 --> 00:42:42,992
And then afterward, you know,
Chris got kicked
out of the imbed.
617
00:42:44,762 --> 00:42:47,964
I just did a book on
Iraq, Iraq was my war.
618
00:42:47,999 --> 00:42:51,567
I mean, I spent years there
and really covered the war.
619
00:42:51,602 --> 00:42:56,305
And I think the one photo
that reached the American public
620
00:42:56,340 --> 00:43:00,676
out of that entire conflict
is Chris' photo from Tal Afar.
621
00:43:00,711 --> 00:43:03,012
Something Chris said about
the Tal Afar photographs
622
00:43:03,047 --> 00:43:06,916
was that this was something
that happened
all the time in Iraq,
623
00:43:06,951 --> 00:43:09,652
he just happened to be there
when it happened.
624
00:43:10,655 --> 00:43:14,991
And the Tal Afar images, again,
625
00:43:15,026 --> 00:43:18,828
it's just this intersection
of lives that, you know,
626
00:43:18,863 --> 00:43:21,764
when it was over,
everybody was changed.
627
00:43:29,807 --> 00:43:31,974
I believe that it was
a very traumatic event for Chris
628
00:43:32,009 --> 00:43:34,910
and I think that that's probably
629
00:43:34,945 --> 00:43:39,315
what led him to follow up
and get involved
630
00:43:39,350 --> 00:43:42,652
with a young boy who came
over here for treatment.
631
00:43:44,121 --> 00:43:46,355
That boy who was shot,
he ended up being,
632
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:50,960
on the basis of these photos,
he ended up being flown
to Boston for treatments.
633
00:43:50,995 --> 00:43:53,729
You know,
he did a lot of that stuff
on his own
634
00:43:53,764 --> 00:43:56,332
to figure out a way
to get Rakan to the US
635
00:43:56,367 --> 00:43:59,335
which is a very difficult thing
to do in the middle of a war.
636
00:43:59,370 --> 00:44:02,805
An Iraqi national had come
to get help in this country
for their injuries.
637
00:44:07,144 --> 00:44:08,377
When you have that connection,
you know,
638
00:44:08,412 --> 00:44:09,945
you don't have that connection
with everybody
639
00:44:09,980 --> 00:44:12,948
but Chris obviously had
that with these people
640
00:44:12,983 --> 00:44:15,718
and he put them
on the world stage,
641
00:44:15,753 --> 00:44:18,354
and I think he probably was
trying to protect them as well,
642
00:44:18,389 --> 00:44:21,657
you know,
making sure that they're OK.
643
00:44:21,692 --> 00:44:23,726
And a lot of us just
run through people's lives
644
00:44:23,761 --> 00:44:27,229
and take pictures
and we sometimes
become famous
645
00:44:27,264 --> 00:44:30,700
for that versus the subject
and I think he wanted
to make sure
646
00:44:30,735 --> 00:44:32,068
that they were OK.
647
00:44:32,103 --> 00:44:36,305
Chris, you are well known
for this remarkable series
648
00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:38,240
of photographs in Tal Afar,
649
00:44:38,275 --> 00:44:39,675
describe the little girl,
650
00:44:39,710 --> 00:44:44,780
this most famous image
of the little girl
next to a soldier's boots.
651
00:44:44,815 --> 00:44:48,150
Yeah.
Her name as it turns out is Samar, Samara Hassan
652
00:44:48,185 --> 00:44:51,921
and she was five years old
at the time of the picture.
653
00:44:51,956 --> 00:44:55,124
I think one of the reasons
the photo had
the sort of resonance
654
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:58,094
that it does is because
it has a sort of empty feeling.
655
00:44:58,129 --> 00:45:01,797
The poor girl all alone
in the world now
656
00:45:01,832 --> 00:45:03,800
just standing there in the dark,
you know.
657
00:45:13,477 --> 00:45:16,212
Chris was reluctant
to talk about details
658
00:45:16,247 --> 00:45:19,115
of his work when
he was covering conflicts.
659
00:45:19,150 --> 00:45:22,384
He would much rather talk
about his music, for example,
660
00:45:22,419 --> 00:45:26,055
or the latest novel
that he read.
661
00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:28,924
Well, I'm sure a lot of people
would say this about Chris
662
00:45:28,959 --> 00:45:31,861
but he was able
to go to the places
663
00:45:31,896 --> 00:45:37,133
he had gone to and do
the work that he did
664
00:45:37,168 --> 00:45:40,937
and still come back and have
somewhat of a sane existence.
665
00:45:43,207 --> 00:45:48,377
He knew the cost of war
more than anybody but I never
saw him talk about it.
666
00:45:48,412 --> 00:45:51,947
You know, if anything,
he made light of it.
667
00:45:51,982 --> 00:45:54,416
Sometimes we'd discuss stuff
and he'd say, "Hey, you know,
668
00:45:54,451 --> 00:45:57,319
that's just the way it is,"
and, boom, he was off
on another subject
669
00:45:57,354 --> 00:45:58,587
and you think, "Oh,
670
00:45:58,622 --> 00:46:00,523
we didn't have the conversation
I thought we were gonna have."
671
00:46:03,227 --> 00:46:07,263
Chris and I would talk
for hours and never talk
about photography.
672
00:46:07,298 --> 00:46:08,197
Chris talked about ideas.
673
00:46:09,633 --> 00:46:12,401
In a way,
that's the power of who he was
and the power of his work.
674
00:46:12,436 --> 00:46:18,040
Like, the camera
is just an extension
of his psyche and his intellect.
675
00:46:18,075 --> 00:46:21,944
He really encouraged me
to be more introspective
676
00:46:21,979 --> 00:46:26,816
but also be more aware
of the world around you.
677
00:46:30,855 --> 00:46:34,824
There was an intensity there,
I mean,
you could see it in his work
678
00:46:34,859 --> 00:46:37,993
but outwardly
he didn't take himself
too seriously.
679
00:46:38,028 --> 00:46:40,396
He had a perfect mix
of intensity and levity
680
00:46:42,166 --> 00:46:47,403
because there's a bigger mission
here and we'd have to
keep focused on that.
681
00:46:52,543 --> 00:46:55,277
I have a career ahead of me,
I can't let this kill me,
682
00:46:55,312 --> 00:46:59,048
I can't come out of this
so messed up
683
00:46:59,083 --> 00:47:01,284
that I can't work
from this point on.
684
00:47:02,620 --> 00:47:07,423
So, while it is jarring
to come back
and going back and forth,
685
00:47:07,458 --> 00:47:11,026
I do my best, to to...
686
00:47:11,061 --> 00:47:14,897
have a normal life here
and keep Iraq in Iraq.
687
00:47:17,067 --> 00:47:20,002
I'm not going to let Iraq
get the best of me.
688
00:47:20,037 --> 00:47:21,537
You know,
I'm not going to do it.
689
00:47:23,507 --> 00:47:24,874
Hondros.
690
00:47:32,383 --> 00:47:34,316
I've been at this a while,
and again, one of the reasons
691
00:47:34,351 --> 00:47:36,218
I've lasted as long
as I have is to keep
692
00:47:36,253 --> 00:47:40,356
some level
of distance and sanity
from the whole process.
693
00:47:40,391 --> 00:47:42,424
So for my part,
what's fun in Iraq.
694
00:47:42,459 --> 00:47:44,994
Well, you know, the journalists
all stay in this hotel
695
00:47:45,029 --> 00:47:46,562
and we have parties, you know.
696
00:47:48,132 --> 00:47:49,599
There is Joe Raedle.
697
00:47:51,402 --> 00:47:53,869
The penthouse
in the Al Hamra hotel
698
00:47:53,904 --> 00:47:58,874
was actually a really
nice place to come back to
699
00:47:58,909 --> 00:48:00,008
when you'd been out
in the field.
700
00:48:01,145 --> 00:48:04,179
Not a luxurious penthouse
but it was a nice penthouse.
701
00:48:04,214 --> 00:48:05,481
Getty Images hard at work.
702
00:48:07,217 --> 00:48:09,485
Everybody knew Chris Hondros.
He'd been there forever.
703
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,353
Um, they knew his work.
704
00:48:11,388 --> 00:48:13,389
Wow. Chicken!
705
00:48:13,424 --> 00:48:15,958
- Hondras.
-Hondros!
706
00:48:15,993 --> 00:48:17,459
So we all hung out all the time.
707
00:48:17,494 --> 00:48:19,261
Whether it be having
dinner together,
708
00:48:19,296 --> 00:48:22,364
we'd have a weekly poker game
here and there,
709
00:48:22,399 --> 00:48:26,936
and Chris was a presence
at all of those evenings.
710
00:48:26,971 --> 00:48:30,039
Classic Chris told me,
"Oh, well, you should come by
711
00:48:30,074 --> 00:48:32,107
the Getty apartment
later tonight."
712
00:48:32,142 --> 00:48:35,444
It was like we were back
in New York or something.
713
00:48:35,479 --> 00:48:37,413
That's pretty much
how Chris was.
714
00:48:37,448 --> 00:48:39,248
Everywhere he went, you know,
715
00:48:39,283 --> 00:48:42,518
he was always trying
to bring a sense
of normalcy I think.
716
00:48:46,256 --> 00:48:47,957
Maestro, maestro.
717
00:48:54,198 --> 00:48:56,031
Chris called me up and he said,
"Hey, you know,
718
00:48:56,066 --> 00:48:59,168
I've got the concert master
of the Pittsburgh Symphony
719
00:48:59,203 --> 00:49:01,337
to play Bach's "Chaconne"
720
00:49:01,372 --> 00:49:05,107
which is the single most
important piece ever written
for a solo instrument
721
00:49:05,142 --> 00:49:08,978
in the history of music...
supposedly."
722
00:49:14,151 --> 00:49:19,021
And Chris presented
a slideshow of seven years
of his work in Iraq
723
00:49:19,056 --> 00:49:22,624
timed perfectly to the movements
within the music.
724
00:50:04,201 --> 00:50:07,336
You know, you can't
tell me Chris didn't have
nightmares about it.
725
00:50:10,074 --> 00:50:11,540
I smell
what I smelled that night.
726
00:50:13,777 --> 00:50:17,413
Blood, brains,
I mean you ever smelled?
727
00:50:20,617 --> 00:50:21,283
You can't forget it.
728
00:50:22,453 --> 00:50:25,187
Other people came back
and they were welcomed back
729
00:50:25,222 --> 00:50:27,790
with, you know,
hugs and what not,
no, I mean, not me.
730
00:50:27,825 --> 00:50:29,191
I couldn't relate.
731
00:50:29,593 --> 00:50:31,260
All my friends went away.
732
00:50:32,596 --> 00:50:35,130
So who else could I relate with?
733
00:50:35,165 --> 00:50:38,401
So I was like, you know what,
let's contact Chris,
see how he's doing.
734
00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:41,470
And, uh...
735
00:50:42,739 --> 00:50:44,440
And he came down.
736
00:50:44,475 --> 00:50:47,209
He came down
pretty lickety-split quick.
737
00:50:49,246 --> 00:50:52,247
Um, well, you know Chris and I,
we're sort of,
738
00:50:52,282 --> 00:50:55,150
we don't even really know
what we're going to do
739
00:50:55,185 --> 00:50:57,419
out of this if anything,
so just kind of, like,
740
00:50:57,454 --> 00:51:00,756
you know, we're just kind of
chit chatting about stuff.
741
00:51:00,791 --> 00:51:03,225
I guess it's irrelevant
in that didn't you say
742
00:51:03,260 --> 00:51:05,360
that one of your lieutenants
said, "Take that car out?"
743
00:51:05,395 --> 00:51:06,728
Or in that Captain Seabolt
did say...
744
00:51:06,763 --> 00:51:08,163
-The captain did.
-"Stop that car."
745
00:51:08,198 --> 00:51:11,733
Do you think you
were the only one
shooting at the passenger?
746
00:51:11,768 --> 00:51:18,273
I feel fairly
responsible for the majority
of the injuries.
747
00:51:18,308 --> 00:51:20,676
I feel as though
I killed the pregnant woman.
748
00:51:20,711 --> 00:51:21,710
I feel that.
749
00:51:21,745 --> 00:51:25,181
I feel I injured Rakan Hassan.
750
00:51:26,283 --> 00:51:28,451
I feel that
so that's what makes my...
751
00:51:35,826 --> 00:51:37,493
You don't know for sure
though that
752
00:51:37,528 --> 00:51:40,863
yours was the only bullet that
hit the wife in this case.
753
00:51:40,898 --> 00:51:42,231
No.
754
00:51:42,266 --> 00:51:44,833
You suspect that
but, I mean, a lot of people
were firing.
755
00:51:44,868 --> 00:51:46,769
You don't know that for certain.
756
00:51:49,941 --> 00:51:52,341
Every time I go and look
at Chris' photos,
757
00:51:53,644 --> 00:51:55,111
I have to see those ones.
758
00:51:55,913 --> 00:51:59,448
Even though I know
I'm gonna have nightmares.
759
00:51:59,483 --> 00:52:02,151
I have nightmares every night.
760
00:52:03,787 --> 00:52:07,623
It used to be so bad
I'd see Rakan
walking down the street.
761
00:52:07,658 --> 00:52:09,658
Did you follow what
happened with him after that?
762
00:52:09,693 --> 00:52:12,861
Yeah, he went to
Massachusetts I think it was,
763
00:52:12,896 --> 00:52:17,166
and got surgery
and now he can walk.
764
00:52:18,502 --> 00:52:19,201
Uh...
765
00:52:21,171 --> 00:52:21,837
Does...
766
00:52:24,641 --> 00:52:27,176
It does seem that...
767
00:52:28,812 --> 00:52:35,317
he actually was killed
in some sort of
incident in Mosul actually.
768
00:52:35,352 --> 00:52:37,686
- Who, what, Rakan was?
- -Mmm-hmm.
769
00:52:37,721 --> 00:52:41,190
There was some sort of
insurgent attack on their house
770
00:52:41,225 --> 00:52:44,393
and Rakan was killed
in that last summer.
771
00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:51,333
I thought you might have heard
about that
'cause I was published as well.
772
00:52:51,368 --> 00:52:52,034
No.
773
00:52:53,637 --> 00:52:56,438
It was just, they weren't
targeted or anything strange
like that, were they?
774
00:52:56,473 --> 00:52:57,472
They do seem
to have been targeted.
775
00:52:57,507 --> 00:52:58,507
Really?
776
00:53:07,751 --> 00:53:11,253
Yeah, it was, it was
a pretty good surprise.
777
00:53:11,288 --> 00:53:12,388
I didn't know.
778
00:53:14,224 --> 00:53:18,527
And it was because of what
we had done that he died.
779
00:53:18,562 --> 00:53:19,528
So...
780
00:53:26,603 --> 00:53:28,437
I wanted to apologize.
781
00:53:28,472 --> 00:53:29,238
Um...
782
00:53:32,376 --> 00:53:36,946
No matter how many times
you say you're sorry.
783
00:53:47,591 --> 00:53:48,424
Sorry.
784
00:53:54,998 --> 00:53:58,233
If assuming that we have
a chance to meet Samar
785
00:53:58,268 --> 00:54:00,769
and her family,
would you like us
to pass that message along?
786
00:54:00,804 --> 00:54:01,971
Absolutely.
787
00:54:03,507 --> 00:54:05,274
Yeah, absolutely.
788
00:55:31,995 --> 00:55:34,563
I never asked Chris if he...
789
00:55:34,598 --> 00:55:37,599
you know,
regretted getting involved.
790
00:55:39,669 --> 00:55:40,336
Yeah.
791
00:55:41,605 --> 00:55:45,474
Yeah, that's, I mean,
that's a question for Chris.
Yeah.
792
00:55:45,509 --> 00:55:47,008
We all make judgment calls.
793
00:55:47,043 --> 00:55:49,545
We all feel compassion
in different ways.
794
00:55:52,482 --> 00:55:57,085
And obviously sometimes
the consequences
are beyond our control.
795
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,987
And there was a lot
of discussion about
796
00:55:59,022 --> 00:56:00,689
whether or not journalists
should do that.
797
00:56:02,826 --> 00:56:05,494
Yeah, I think the only people
that might be questioning that
798
00:56:05,529 --> 00:56:07,429
are the people
that haven't been there.
799
00:56:07,464 --> 00:56:10,732
It's tough to walk away
from a little girl
800
00:56:10,767 --> 00:56:15,437
that's sitting in the middle
of the blood of her relatives.
801
00:56:15,472 --> 00:56:18,507
We're humans,
we're not machines.
802
00:56:19,776 --> 00:56:20,642
So...
803
00:56:25,882 --> 00:56:28,750
When you talk
about war being hell,
this is what you mean.
804
00:56:28,785 --> 00:56:31,720
It's not just battlefield
type of stuff.
805
00:56:31,755 --> 00:56:34,623
When any country says
it's going to go to war,
806
00:56:34,658 --> 00:56:39,461
these are the kinds of things
that we can expect
807
00:56:39,496 --> 00:56:41,563
because these are the things
that happen in war.
808
00:57:05,155 --> 00:57:06,588
Hello, Samar.
809
00:57:06,623 --> 00:57:08,557
Does she understand
that my friend was
810
00:57:08,592 --> 00:57:10,725
the photographer
who took the picture of her?
811
00:59:31,868 --> 00:59:34,235
You know I always think
it's a lot more difficult
812
00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:36,037
for photographers
when we get into this business
813
00:59:36,072 --> 00:59:38,106
of we don't want
to talk about objectivity,
814
00:59:38,141 --> 00:59:38,840
then certainly balance.
815
00:59:40,009 --> 00:59:42,611
You know, a reporter can go
into a situation and say,
816
00:59:42,646 --> 00:59:45,647
"Well, I can always
get both sides."
817
00:59:45,682 --> 00:59:48,149
With a photograph,
there really isn't
818
00:59:48,184 --> 00:59:51,052
that kind of way
to balance the picture.
819
00:59:51,087 --> 00:59:52,588
Do you think about that?
820
00:59:53,023 --> 00:59:54,456
Sure.
821
00:59:54,491 --> 00:59:57,759
Individual photos of course
are difficult to balance
in that same way.
822
00:59:59,796 --> 01:00:01,863
On the other hand,
I think on the whole,
823
01:00:01,898 --> 01:00:04,833
in terms of a body of work,
it's possible to achieve
824
01:00:04,868 --> 01:00:06,835
that kind of balance,
that kind of fairness.
825
01:00:10,106 --> 01:00:13,942
I think in my work,
in Iraq I've covered,
826
01:00:13,977 --> 01:00:18,747
I've been embedded with
US soldiers, you know,
for months and months on end.
827
01:00:18,782 --> 01:00:20,682
I've been with Iraqis
in their homes.
828
01:00:22,886 --> 01:00:26,788
You know, I've tried to cover
every part of this story
that's possible to cover,
829
01:00:26,823 --> 01:00:28,690
and I think if one looks
at my work as a whole,
830
01:00:28,725 --> 01:00:31,727
you see that multifaceted
aspect of it.
831
01:00:51,681 --> 01:00:54,182
How do you get
these amazing photographs
832
01:00:54,217 --> 01:00:56,651
and go to
these incredible places
833
01:00:56,686 --> 01:01:01,356
where you internalize profoundly
the human experience?
834
01:01:02,926 --> 01:01:04,893
I would always get
a phone call from him
835
01:01:04,928 --> 01:01:09,064
and the conversations
that we had very often
836
01:01:09,099 --> 01:01:12,200
were Chris on a mountaintop
837
01:01:12,235 --> 01:01:16,738
halfway across the world,
um, lonely.
838
01:01:18,341 --> 01:01:21,676
You know, he was
a globe-trotting, gallivanting,
839
01:01:21,711 --> 01:01:25,914
good looking,
extremely articulate
conflict photographer.
840
01:01:25,949 --> 01:01:29,384
I suppose
many women imagined that
841
01:01:29,419 --> 01:01:32,053
this kind of fit
their movie line,
842
01:01:32,088 --> 01:01:33,288
but it's a tough life.
843
01:01:36,926 --> 01:01:39,894
Is it hard to have relationships
in what you do?
844
01:01:39,929 --> 01:01:43,698
It's obviously difficult,
I mean, we travel,
mostly because we travel a lot.
845
01:01:43,733 --> 01:01:46,334
You know, when I go to Iraq,
I go for
about six weeks usually,
846
01:01:46,369 --> 01:01:48,269
and I'm gone at least every...
847
01:01:48,304 --> 01:01:51,773
two or three times a year
since the war began.
848
01:01:51,808 --> 01:01:54,943
On the other hand,
I don't think it's impossible.
849
01:01:54,978 --> 01:01:57,045
I mean there are a lot of people
with consuming jobs
850
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,814
and, you know, to me,
holding a relationship
851
01:01:59,849 --> 01:02:02,050
is a personal decision
and it has a lot of factors
852
01:02:02,085 --> 01:02:05,220
and this only just one
of them really.
853
01:02:05,255 --> 01:02:08,957
I was always
kind of nagging him,
854
01:02:08,992 --> 01:02:12,260
I said,
"Chris, you're getting older,
and believe me,
855
01:02:12,295 --> 01:02:16,965
because I said when you are
by yourself, it stinks, OK?"
856
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,267
And he said, "Yes, Mom,
don't worry about it."
857
01:02:28,144 --> 01:02:30,311
I don't think
that I had too many expectations
858
01:02:30,346 --> 01:02:33,448
upon meeting him,
it was through a friend of mine.
859
01:02:33,483 --> 01:02:36,417
He was a bit quiet
when I met him at first.
860
01:02:36,452 --> 01:02:42,157
So we had a lot of lunch dates
and a lot of first dates
it seemed like.
861
01:02:43,327 --> 01:02:46,261
And then all of sudden,
we just seemed to find our way.
862
01:02:48,832 --> 01:02:52,167
When Chris met Christina,
his fiancée,
863
01:02:52,202 --> 01:02:56,771
I think that
he found the opening
to the rest of his life
864
01:02:56,806 --> 01:02:59,941
and it was a path that
he had been looking for
865
01:02:59,976 --> 01:03:04,979
in some way to justify
changing the speed
866
01:03:05,014 --> 01:03:07,182
or changing
the tempo of the things
that he did professionally.
867
01:03:11,921 --> 01:03:15,089
We were very drawn to each other
because we wanted a family
868
01:03:15,124 --> 01:03:15,791
and to live abroad
869
01:03:17,194 --> 01:03:20,462
and to have
a very kind of curious
exciting life out in the world.
870
01:03:22,465 --> 01:03:26,467
I think he had been
through 10 years
871
01:03:26,502 --> 01:03:29,171
of just missing the gear
in a lot of ways.
872
01:03:30,373 --> 01:03:34,008
He yearned for a deep connection
with somebody
873
01:03:34,043 --> 01:03:37,111
and I think he really had
found it with Christina.
874
01:03:37,146 --> 01:03:41,183
He was overjoyed that
he had come to that place.
875
01:03:43,219 --> 01:03:46,020
I had a background
working with people
876
01:03:46,055 --> 01:03:49,891
that had worked
in conflict regions,
so there was always
877
01:03:49,926 --> 01:03:52,560
a sense of awareness of the risk
878
01:03:52,595 --> 01:03:55,530
and what's involved
but I believe very strongly
879
01:03:55,565 --> 01:03:57,832
in the work photojournalists do
880
01:03:57,867 --> 01:04:00,368
and I was OK with him being away
881
01:04:00,403 --> 01:04:03,238
and we always felt connected
882
01:04:03,273 --> 01:04:06,875
in different ways,
so it didn't feel like
a sacrifice at all.
883
01:04:10,647 --> 01:04:14,048
It was frustration
at Tunisia's youth unemployment
that started it all.
884
01:04:14,083 --> 01:04:15,884
Today, thousands of people
took to the streets
885
01:04:15,919 --> 01:04:18,186
demanding change in Algeria.
886
01:04:18,221 --> 01:04:21,256
They brought
their grievances to the world's
attention this way.
887
01:04:21,291 --> 01:04:22,390
Tensions now spiked in Syria.
888
01:04:22,425 --> 01:04:24,392
I remember he had the TV on
889
01:04:24,427 --> 01:04:27,862
and Egypt
had just started brewing
for a couple of days.
890
01:04:27,897 --> 01:04:31,199
And he was kind of pacing
back and forth
891
01:04:31,234 --> 01:04:34,235
saying, "I think I should go,
I'm gonna talk to my boss
892
01:04:34,270 --> 01:04:37,538
and try to get there
'cause I think this
is gonna be big."
893
01:04:37,573 --> 01:04:41,943
And sure enough,
two days later, he was there
894
01:04:41,978 --> 01:04:44,246
and he was right, it was big.
895
01:05:00,663 --> 01:05:02,297
Even while the government
was insisting
896
01:05:02,332 --> 01:05:04,599
that journalists were welcome
to report freely in Egypt,
897
01:05:04,634 --> 01:05:06,567
at the end of last week,
we have now learned that
898
01:05:06,602 --> 01:05:08,937
from the International Committee
to Protect Journalists,
899
01:05:08,972 --> 01:05:10,939
26 journalists
have been detained
900
01:05:10,974 --> 01:05:13,107
since the end of last week,
since Friday.
901
01:05:13,142 --> 01:05:15,410
Seventy-one since the protests
began and those
902
01:05:15,445 --> 01:05:16,978
are the just the ones
they could count.
903
01:05:19,082 --> 01:05:21,015
I interviewed Chris
for my book on Iraq
904
01:05:21,050 --> 01:05:24,385
and he talked in particular
about the changing role
of the media
905
01:05:24,420 --> 01:05:28,256
and he said,
"You know, 10, 15 years ago,
906
01:05:28,291 --> 01:05:31,426
the Western press was something
that was courted
and needed and today
907
01:05:31,461 --> 01:05:34,062
everybody has
their own propaganda wing.
908
01:05:34,097 --> 01:05:36,130
They're putting out
their own message
909
01:05:36,165 --> 01:05:39,968
and a Western journalist
who's there fact-checking
is just in the way."
910
01:05:41,671 --> 01:05:44,639
The number one
fundamental change is
911
01:05:44,674 --> 01:05:48,076
if you had a media credential
or it said media or press
912
01:05:48,111 --> 01:05:50,678
on your vehicle
or on your flak jacket
913
01:05:50,713 --> 01:05:55,650
or whatever, you were safe
unless there was an accident.
914
01:05:55,685 --> 01:05:58,286
You were not going
to be targeted.
915
01:05:58,321 --> 01:06:01,155
Now it's a completely
different story.
916
01:06:01,190 --> 01:06:03,024
On the streets
of Benghazi, Libya,
917
01:06:03,059 --> 01:06:06,494
a stronghold of forces
opposing Libyan forces
918
01:06:06,529 --> 01:06:09,163
loyal to Muammar Gaddafi
are defending their leader.
919
01:06:09,198 --> 01:06:11,566
The city of Benghazi,
now the heart of the uprising,
920
01:06:11,601 --> 01:06:12,667
is cut off to foreign media.
921
01:06:12,702 --> 01:06:16,604
Libya is like a black hole,
very hard to see inside.
922
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:18,272
We had crossed a border
into a country
923
01:06:18,307 --> 01:06:20,608
that had been shut off
from the world for 42 years
924
01:06:20,643 --> 01:06:24,445
and we were there illegally
according to this government.
925
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,648
This is not Cairo or Tunisia
where you're photographing
926
01:06:27,683 --> 01:06:31,319
street demonstrations,
this is deadly mortar,
927
01:06:31,354 --> 01:06:34,222
artillery, and war is no joke,
you know.
928
01:06:35,658 --> 01:06:37,592
When I reached Libya,
I knew it was going to bad.
929
01:06:38,795 --> 01:06:42,630
And it became bad very fast.
930
01:06:44,067 --> 01:06:47,068
You never knew
where the bad guys
were gonna come from,
931
01:06:47,103 --> 01:06:50,104
when, how quickly
things changed,
932
01:06:50,139 --> 01:06:54,375
how fast a town
or a village or a city
933
01:06:54,410 --> 01:06:57,078
could change hands
from being relatively safe
934
01:06:57,113 --> 01:06:59,313
to completely in the control
935
01:06:59,348 --> 01:07:02,550
of the other side
and that's what I experienced
936
01:07:02,585 --> 01:07:04,385
when I was captured in Ajdabiya.
937
01:07:04,420 --> 01:07:06,387
The New York Times says
that four of its journalists
938
01:07:06,422 --> 01:07:08,556
covering the revolt in Libya
are missing.
939
01:07:08,591 --> 01:07:12,393
One moment you're fine
and the next you aren't.
940
01:07:12,428 --> 01:07:16,097
And myself and some others
from The New York Times
941
01:07:16,132 --> 01:07:20,802
were beaten and put in various
jails across the Libyan desert.
942
01:07:23,206 --> 01:07:26,641
I did know that Tyler
had been captured.
943
01:07:28,544 --> 01:07:31,379
Didn't know what had happened
to them at that point.
944
01:07:31,414 --> 01:07:35,049
We had heard there were
refugees outside town
945
01:07:35,084 --> 01:07:37,118
where there had been a lot
of fighting taking place.
946
01:07:37,153 --> 01:07:39,387
So, we were wanting
to do a story on them.
947
01:07:39,422 --> 01:07:41,389
You know,
we were pretty cautious
about making sure
948
01:07:41,424 --> 01:07:44,092
that the refugees story
we were gonna do
949
01:07:44,861 --> 01:07:47,562
was something that we
could safely do.
950
01:07:47,597 --> 01:07:50,731
You sure this is behind
the lines of the fighting?
951
01:07:50,766 --> 01:07:52,767
There's no question that
we're gonna run into
952
01:07:52,802 --> 01:07:56,304
the Gaddafi forces
and we're convinced that,
953
01:07:56,339 --> 01:07:59,140
you know, that it was safe.
954
01:08:00,176 --> 01:08:01,076
And...
955
01:08:02,445 --> 01:08:03,578
we...
956
01:08:05,181 --> 01:08:08,816
ended up running right
into the frontline
957
01:08:08,851 --> 01:08:12,120
of the Muammar Gaddafi, um...
958
01:08:15,324 --> 01:08:16,224
army.
959
01:08:17,427 --> 01:08:19,427
Still photographer
Joe Raedle went
960
01:08:19,462 --> 01:08:22,630
missing Saturday while
covering the conflict in Libya.
961
01:08:22,665 --> 01:08:25,766
They were arrested at
gunpoint by Gaddafi forces.
962
01:08:25,801 --> 01:08:31,439
They took us to a holding
area which I think was like
a 12-hour drive.
963
01:08:31,474 --> 01:08:35,143
The first thing you saw was,
as we were let out of our trucks
964
01:08:36,646 --> 01:08:41,883
was maybe 12 people standing
with sacks over their heads.
965
01:08:41,918 --> 01:08:42,584
Um...
966
01:08:43,853 --> 01:08:48,123
And then the Gaddafi people
all had surgical masks on.
967
01:08:49,559 --> 01:08:52,527
So it was a pretty,
uh, disturbing sight.
968
01:08:52,562 --> 01:08:55,630
They made us pick up our gear
and as we're going through
969
01:08:55,665 --> 01:08:58,166
these piles of, uh, gear,
970
01:08:59,368 --> 01:09:02,503
they had--
The New York Times gear
was in there, too.
971
01:09:02,538 --> 01:09:06,307
I saw, I think Tyler's name
on his bag or New York Times
972
01:09:06,342 --> 01:09:10,244
and, uh, so we knew that
they had been where we were,
973
01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:11,746
we just didn't know
if they had made it out alive
974
01:09:11,781 --> 01:09:13,381
or not at that point.
975
01:09:13,416 --> 01:09:15,850
You were held
for a total of what?
976
01:09:15,885 --> 01:09:16,885
Four days.
977
01:09:18,721 --> 01:09:21,156
But, yeah, I'm good,
made it out.
978
01:09:22,391 --> 01:09:23,391
Other people didn't.
979
01:09:26,262 --> 01:09:29,664
My driver was killed
in the process
980
01:09:29,699 --> 01:09:34,169
of when we were captured
and it's hard to process that.
981
01:09:36,706 --> 01:09:39,240
Who's the one who has a bullet
just fly past him
982
01:09:39,275 --> 01:09:42,243
and who's the one
who gets hit by it and why?
983
01:09:43,446 --> 01:09:45,280
They didn't kill us
984
01:09:46,849 --> 01:09:50,251
but, uh, they certainly
put me through
some psychological, uh...
985
01:09:51,587 --> 01:09:52,520
somersaults.
986
01:09:54,557 --> 01:09:57,858
You know,
ended with them telling me that,
987
01:09:57,893 --> 01:10:00,261
punching me and telling me
that I was gonna...
988
01:10:07,470 --> 01:10:11,739
go home in a box, so,
you know, that's something
that's hard to deal with.
989
01:10:13,909 --> 01:10:17,612
We were able to get him
released after a horrible time
990
01:10:17,647 --> 01:10:24,585
and Chris said,
"Well, he can't come out
and not have someone greet him.
991
01:10:24,620 --> 01:10:27,521
He's gonna need a hug after this
and he's gonna need a hug
992
01:10:27,556 --> 01:10:29,690
from one of his friends
and colleagues.
993
01:10:29,725 --> 01:10:30,592
So I'm gonna go out there."
994
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:32,527
So he went.
995
01:10:33,630 --> 01:10:35,230
You know, it's
like seeing your brother.
996
01:10:37,733 --> 01:10:38,933
Things will be OK.
997
01:10:49,478 --> 01:10:51,479
I think we try
not to think about it
998
01:10:51,514 --> 01:10:54,615
but we all know that
that kind of thing can happen
999
01:10:54,650 --> 01:10:57,485
and that the very fabric
of the profession
1000
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,888
is about risk and danger,
so we try
not to talk about it too much
1001
01:11:00,923 --> 01:11:02,357
but I think when it happens,
1002
01:11:03,826 --> 01:11:06,294
when any kind of calamity
happens to a member
1003
01:11:06,329 --> 01:11:09,664
of the International Journalism
Photography Community,
1004
01:11:09,699 --> 01:11:14,368
everybody tries to step up
and help
and be there for them.
1005
01:11:14,403 --> 01:11:17,838
When did you learn that Chris
was gonna go into Libya?
1006
01:11:17,873 --> 01:11:20,608
I knew somebody was going in,
you know? So, uh...
1007
01:11:23,379 --> 01:11:24,645
I mean, he replaced me.
1008
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:26,681
We had a long conversation
in my office
1009
01:11:26,716 --> 01:11:29,350
with the two of them,
with Chris and with Joe
1010
01:11:30,353 --> 01:11:33,854
just in the room next door
and it was like,
1011
01:11:33,889 --> 01:11:36,357
"Surely this is a warning."
1012
01:11:38,361 --> 01:11:42,863
And it was,
"No, this is the big story."
1013
01:11:42,898 --> 01:11:46,434
He called me
and he said, "Well, I decided
to go to Libya."
1014
01:11:48,504 --> 01:11:50,672
And in light of
the conversations
we had just been having,
1015
01:11:52,641 --> 01:11:54,842
I remember asking him, you know,
1016
01:11:54,877 --> 01:11:57,978
"Why are you going to Libya?
Come on." You know?
1017
01:11:58,013 --> 01:11:59,947
"You were just talking
about your wedding,
1018
01:11:59,982 --> 01:12:01,482
why do you need to be there?"
1019
01:12:03,753 --> 01:12:05,353
I remember saying to him,
1020
01:12:06,122 --> 01:12:10,524
"I am tired of seeing
AK-47s in the desert
1021
01:12:10,559 --> 01:12:13,061
and if I've become numb to it,
1022
01:12:15,364 --> 01:12:17,832
how many people
have just become numb to it?
1023
01:12:17,867 --> 01:12:20,702
And it doesn't even register
an emotional response anymore."
1024
01:12:23,005 --> 01:12:25,072
Couple weeks later
I see the front page
1025
01:12:25,107 --> 01:12:28,542
of The Washington Post
on my computer one morning.
1026
01:12:28,577 --> 01:12:32,413
And I typed on Facebook
a little note to him,
1027
01:12:32,448 --> 01:12:36,550
"Brother, that is the best
damn picture of an AK-47
1028
01:12:36,585 --> 01:12:38,619
in the desert I have ever seen."
1029
01:12:42,491 --> 01:12:45,860
This is Chris Hondros.
I'm in Libya at the moment.
1030
01:12:45,895 --> 01:12:51,966
You can leave a message here
or email me at hondros@aol.com.
1031
01:12:56,806 --> 01:12:59,607
I got a text from Chris
that said "Libya?"
1032
01:13:01,076 --> 01:13:03,911
That wasn't unusual
because he was always trying
1033
01:13:03,946 --> 01:13:06,647
to get me to come
to Baghdad or Afghanistan
1034
01:13:06,682 --> 01:13:09,850
or wherever the story was
happening so that we could
1035
01:13:09,885 --> 01:13:11,419
report together again.
1036
01:13:12,988 --> 01:13:14,555
I'd always said no.
1037
01:13:15,724 --> 01:13:19,627
And I had every excuse
1038
01:13:19,662 --> 01:13:22,663
that I'd ever used in the past
to use again,
1039
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:28,169
and the idea of not going
never crossed my mind.
1040
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,608
We were in rebel-held territory
in Benghazi
1041
01:13:34,643 --> 01:13:37,845
and, you know, it's pretty much
the wild west out there.
1042
01:13:39,915 --> 01:13:43,150
Our days were spent driving
from the relative safety
of our hotel
1043
01:13:43,185 --> 01:13:45,653
to the frontline
of the conflict.
1044
01:13:45,688 --> 01:13:48,522
And it was about
an hour and a half
or two-hour drive.
1045
01:13:48,557 --> 01:13:50,491
One of the great things
about Chris was his ability
1046
01:13:50,526 --> 01:13:54,962
to sort of letting your attitude
a little bit
and lighten the mood.
1047
01:13:54,997 --> 01:13:56,897
I remember one day
we were driving in the car
1048
01:13:56,932 --> 01:13:59,767
and we were heading
towards God knows what
1049
01:13:59,802 --> 01:14:02,736
up towards the frontline
where people were being killed
that day
1050
01:14:02,771 --> 01:14:06,507
and Chris asked
everybody in the car,
1051
01:14:06,542 --> 01:14:08,176
"How do you order flowers
for a wedding?"
1052
01:14:09,879 --> 01:14:11,846
It was a reminder that
there was this other life
1053
01:14:11,881 --> 01:14:15,015
waiting for him after
this assignment was over.
1054
01:14:15,050 --> 01:14:16,951
And it was also a way
for all of us
1055
01:14:16,986 --> 01:14:19,520
to get our minds off
of what was to come.
1056
01:14:22,791 --> 01:14:24,458
Allahu Akbar!
1057
01:14:24,493 --> 01:14:28,162
To say this front is fluid
is a serious understatement.
1058
01:14:28,197 --> 01:14:31,665
Here we are yet again
at the gates of Ajdabiya
1059
01:14:31,700 --> 01:14:34,101
which has now become
the frontal defensive position
1060
01:14:34,136 --> 01:14:36,904
of the rebels in eastern Libya.
1061
01:14:40,075 --> 01:14:42,209
These kids are just playing war.
1062
01:14:42,244 --> 01:14:44,111
Dangerous for them,
dangerous for us.
1063
01:14:44,146 --> 01:14:45,980
If you think about it,
this is just like,
1064
01:14:46,015 --> 01:14:47,515
if you really strip it down,
1065
01:14:47,550 --> 01:14:49,583
these are just bystanders,
teenagers,
1066
01:14:49,618 --> 01:14:51,852
they don't even have weapons,
they don't even pretend
they have weapons.
1067
01:14:51,887 --> 01:14:54,488
Essentially we're standing
out here, if you look at it,
1068
01:14:54,523 --> 01:14:58,492
clearly with three
or four armed trucks.
1069
01:14:58,527 --> 01:15:00,995
We're standing out here
with three or four trucks
1070
01:15:01,030 --> 01:15:02,963
that actually have ammunition,
1071
01:15:02,998 --> 01:15:07,201
so, versus the Libyan army
who is fully mortarized,
1072
01:15:07,236 --> 01:15:09,604
mechanized and armed
down the street
with who knows how much.
1073
01:15:15,544 --> 01:15:17,511
What I was hearing
was that it was sort
of amateur hour
1074
01:15:17,546 --> 01:15:20,614
over there and there were
all these young photographers
1075
01:15:20,649 --> 01:15:22,149
running around with cell phones
and such
1076
01:15:22,184 --> 01:15:23,718
and that really
concerned me greatly.
1077
01:15:27,890 --> 01:15:29,290
I knew Chris and Tim
were traveling together
1078
01:15:29,325 --> 01:15:31,592
which of course
made me feel much better
1079
01:15:31,627 --> 01:15:33,894
because one of the most
dangerous things you can do
1080
01:15:33,929 --> 01:15:37,264
is go into a combat situation
with people
who are inexperienced,
1081
01:15:37,299 --> 01:15:39,567
who don't have medical training,
1082
01:15:39,602 --> 01:15:41,302
who maybe are not
gonna hold it together.
1083
01:15:43,005 --> 01:15:44,672
Allahu Akbar!
1084
01:15:46,809 --> 01:15:50,110
There's all this young
generation of journalists
who were following him
1085
01:15:50,145 --> 01:15:53,547
and they were following him
in Cairo, you see the pictures
on Facebook,
1086
01:15:53,582 --> 01:15:55,883
he's surrounded
by all these people.
1087
01:15:55,918 --> 01:15:58,752
I don't know, it bothered me
that he wasn't working alone.
1088
01:15:58,787 --> 01:16:01,622
Too many people around you
is a distraction.
1089
01:16:01,657 --> 01:16:03,857
Photography is
a solitary profession,
it should be.
1090
01:16:03,892 --> 01:16:04,559
There's a reason for that.
1091
01:16:05,894 --> 01:16:09,029
And to be in tune and in touch
with your own feelings
1092
01:16:09,064 --> 01:16:12,166
and your surroundings
and what's going on.
1093
01:16:27,383 --> 01:16:30,785
-Allahu Akbar!
-Allahu Akbar!
1094
01:16:41,230 --> 01:16:42,330
Let's go, Chris.
1095
01:17:11,093 --> 01:17:12,660
Wait! Wait! Wait!
1096
01:17:17,399 --> 01:17:19,967
The more seasoned
veteran photographers,
1097
01:17:20,002 --> 01:17:23,671
they see a younger person
trying to get into this business
1098
01:17:23,706 --> 01:17:25,706
and they might be helpful
here and there,
1099
01:17:25,741 --> 01:17:29,777
but they won't actually try
to like take you
under their wing
1100
01:17:29,812 --> 01:17:32,346
or care about you
as much as Chris did.
1101
01:17:34,149 --> 01:17:36,417
He really wanted to, like,
make sure that the younger
1102
01:17:36,452 --> 01:17:38,719
photographers
or journalists were,
1103
01:17:38,754 --> 01:17:41,855
kind of, staying together
and being safe
1104
01:17:41,890 --> 01:17:43,857
and, you know,
they felt in a way
responsible for us
1105
01:17:43,892 --> 01:17:47,161
and that was something
I felt real gratitude for
1106
01:17:47,196 --> 01:17:50,764
and also I felt
like it was going to be OK.
1107
01:17:50,799 --> 01:17:51,865
We should probably head out.
1108
01:17:51,900 --> 01:17:53,300
Yeah, it sounded kinda hairy.
1109
01:17:53,335 --> 01:17:54,368
- What do you think?
1110
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,213
No...
1111
01:18:08,817 --> 01:18:11,085
Chris was always
recalibrating where he stood,
1112
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,987
walking around, you could
just see the wheels spinning,
1113
01:18:14,022 --> 01:18:15,121
he was constantly framing,
1114
01:18:15,157 --> 01:18:17,692
you could see his eyes moving
throughout the frame.
1115
01:18:21,130 --> 01:18:22,796
He didn't get rattled.
1116
01:18:22,831 --> 01:18:26,734
He was very aware of the things
that could go wrong.
1117
01:18:26,769 --> 01:18:28,769
He was constantly
performing mental calculus.
1118
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:35,242
And I saw how he had evolved
and matured as a photographer,
1119
01:18:35,277 --> 01:18:36,877
really at the top of his game
1120
01:18:36,912 --> 01:18:38,846
those last couple days
when were together.
1121
01:18:44,887 --> 01:18:45,786
Yeah.
1122
01:18:48,957 --> 01:18:53,761
We have about 45 minutes
to make it safe.
1123
01:19:08,911 --> 01:19:10,043
OK.
1124
01:19:10,078 --> 01:19:11,846
See ya, see ya.
1125
01:19:13,482 --> 01:19:14,815
Ooh!
1126
01:19:15,784 --> 01:19:17,485
Outta here, no problem.
1127
01:19:26,195 --> 01:19:30,230
I last saw Chris
on Wednesday April 13th
1128
01:19:30,265 --> 01:19:31,965
in the lobby
of the hotel in Benghazi.
1129
01:19:35,037 --> 01:19:39,973
Chris' last words to me were,
"We got you
out of here unscathed."
1130
01:19:40,008 --> 01:19:42,209
Even the other day with...
1131
01:19:42,244 --> 01:19:45,012
I wish I would have
held on to him a little longer
1132
01:19:45,047 --> 01:19:47,481
when we hugged and said goodbye
for the last time.
1133
01:19:59,461 --> 01:20:01,295
In Benghazi,
there was a frontline.
1134
01:20:01,330 --> 01:20:04,998
It wasn't always clear
because these weren't
professional fighters,
1135
01:20:05,033 --> 01:20:09,136
they would fall asleep
on the frontline, they would
run away during battles.
1136
01:20:09,171 --> 01:20:10,370
Misrata was different.
1137
01:20:10,405 --> 01:20:12,239
Misrata was a siege
1138
01:20:12,274 --> 01:20:17,044
and we were going into
be able to cover
the humanitarian crisis going on
1139
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:18,045
and arguably war crimes
that were happening.
1140
01:20:20,048 --> 01:20:24,051
So we got on a boat, a few
journalists including Chris
and Tim Hetherington.
1141
01:20:24,086 --> 01:20:25,486
It was a 17-hour journey.
1142
01:20:28,490 --> 01:20:31,024
We got to Misrata
and you're surrounded by water.
1143
01:20:31,059 --> 01:20:32,893
Regime forces on another side
1144
01:20:32,928 --> 01:20:35,229
and a battle zone
in the center of the city.
1145
01:20:35,264 --> 01:20:38,098
And there's nowhere to go
unless you get on a boat
1146
01:20:38,133 --> 01:20:41,035
and get out, and even that port
was under fire all the time.
1147
01:20:47,175 --> 01:20:50,244
It was kind of difficult
to find a place to stay there,
1148
01:20:50,279 --> 01:20:54,314
so the rebels had like a house
to host all the journalists.
1149
01:20:54,349 --> 01:20:56,216
There were a lot of us
basically sleeping
1150
01:20:56,251 --> 01:20:59,152
on mattresses in various spots
around the living room.
1151
01:21:02,457 --> 01:21:06,860
So on the morning of the 20th,
I remember Chris was there
1152
01:21:06,895 --> 01:21:09,963
on the couch
reading Pride and Prejudice
1153
01:21:09,998 --> 01:21:14,568
or something really bizarre
in this situation of conflict.
1154
01:21:14,603 --> 01:21:17,170
And, uh, I think I left first
1155
01:21:17,205 --> 01:21:19,873
and then it was Chris and Tim
and that whole group
1156
01:21:19,908 --> 01:21:22,309
that decided to go
to Tripoli Street.
1157
01:21:22,344 --> 01:21:24,278
One of the frontlines of Misrata
1158
01:21:24,313 --> 01:21:25,412
was on Tripoli Street.
1159
01:21:26,448 --> 01:21:28,582
And part of the road
was opened up,
1160
01:21:28,617 --> 01:21:31,151
so you could actually,
you could drive there
1161
01:21:31,186 --> 01:21:34,455
and you could
sort of walk around
and see the damage.
1162
01:21:42,164 --> 01:21:43,430
There was a large
crowd of people,
1163
01:21:43,465 --> 01:21:44,999
they were shooting
in the building.
1164
01:21:48,971 --> 01:21:51,338
Apparently,
a few snipers inside.
1165
01:21:54,009 --> 01:21:56,443
And we'd have guys in the field
with light artillery
firing into the building.
1166
01:21:56,478 --> 01:21:58,345
firing into the building.
1167
01:22:13,395 --> 01:22:16,129
It was like a very dangerous
place to be.
1168
01:22:16,164 --> 01:22:20,067
One of the guys who
was by my side
just got shot on the head.
1169
01:22:26,975 --> 01:22:27,708
Last one.
1170
01:22:43,158 --> 01:22:43,991
We're ready.
1171
01:23:00,375 --> 01:23:04,544
They tried to burn a tire
to make them come out.
1172
01:23:04,579 --> 01:23:05,646
They wouldn't come out.
1173
01:23:10,085 --> 01:23:11,318
This oil is old.
1174
01:23:13,121 --> 01:23:16,156
Someone, like,
lit a fire in the stairwell
1175
01:23:16,191 --> 01:23:17,991
and everybody started
running out of the building
1176
01:23:18,026 --> 01:23:19,093
because of the smoke.
1177
01:23:27,736 --> 01:23:29,503
Hetherington was upstairs...
1178
01:23:32,107 --> 01:23:33,373
stuck at some point
1179
01:23:33,409 --> 01:23:37,677
and so basically
had to climb out
of the building on the ladder.
1180
01:23:37,712 --> 01:23:42,015
The situation was very crazy
for a while
1181
01:23:42,050 --> 01:23:47,421
and then it calmed down a little
bit because I think
they killed these guys
1182
01:23:47,456 --> 01:23:50,524
so we decided to go back.
1183
01:23:50,559 --> 01:23:52,126
Guillermo, you all right, man?
1184
01:23:57,732 --> 01:24:01,101
We went back to the house
so we could file our work.
1185
01:24:04,506 --> 01:24:08,208
And at one point,
the possibility of coming
back up here,
1186
01:24:08,243 --> 01:24:12,579
I don't know from where,
and I said, "Yeah, why not?
1187
01:24:12,614 --> 01:24:16,049
Some of the others
were gonna go back
and, at first I was, like,
1188
01:24:16,084 --> 01:24:19,052
"No way, I'm not going back.
No way."
1189
01:24:19,087 --> 01:24:21,188
You know,
and Chris was not gonna go back.
1190
01:24:22,324 --> 01:24:24,591
I remember
it was kind of a division
1191
01:24:24,626 --> 01:24:28,395
between people,
of going back or not.
1192
01:24:28,430 --> 01:24:34,101
And I think Mike and Chris
were not really into going back.
1193
01:24:34,136 --> 01:24:39,372
There's been a lot of talk about
what decisions
went into that day.
1194
01:24:39,407 --> 01:24:42,476
I don't think we'll ever have
a 100% clear answer
1195
01:24:42,511 --> 01:24:46,379
about how things
really went down,
um, and why.
1196
01:24:46,414 --> 01:24:48,849
We don't have the luxury
of being able to ask him
1197
01:24:48,884 --> 01:24:51,518
why exactly he decided
to go back.
1198
01:25:03,665 --> 01:25:05,799
So when we arrived
in the afternoon,
1199
01:25:05,834 --> 01:25:08,168
there wasn't much happening,
it was strange.
1200
01:25:08,203 --> 01:25:10,804
You couldn't hear shooting,
you know.
1201
01:25:10,839 --> 01:25:13,673
But you could feel tension.
1202
01:25:13,708 --> 01:25:15,642
We began walking by the building
1203
01:25:15,677 --> 01:25:17,844
that we'd spent the morning in
and then
1204
01:25:17,879 --> 01:25:22,182
just maybe 100 feet
past the building,
1205
01:25:22,217 --> 01:25:25,252
a couple hundred feet,
that's when...
1206
01:25:27,489 --> 01:25:28,555
mortar came in.
1207
01:25:42,404 --> 01:25:43,503
Thirty minutes after the hour,
1208
01:25:43,539 --> 01:25:45,672
let's give you a check on
the morning's top stories.
1209
01:25:45,707 --> 01:25:49,209
The battle for Libya
has claimed the lives
of two Western photojournalists,
1210
01:25:49,244 --> 01:25:50,577
Chris Hondros
and Tim Hetherington.
1211
01:25:50,612 --> 01:25:53,313
They were covering the fighting
between rebels
and Gaddafi forces
1212
01:25:53,348 --> 01:25:55,215
on the frontlines in Misrata.
1213
01:25:56,685 --> 01:25:58,685
American photographer
Chris Hondros
1214
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:02,289
of the Getty Photo Agency
died within a few hours
1215
01:26:02,324 --> 01:26:04,858
of receiving
a devastating brain injury.
1216
01:26:04,893 --> 01:26:07,394
British-born photographer
and Oscar-nominated director
1217
01:26:07,429 --> 01:26:10,730
Tim Hetherington died
earlier in the same incident
1218
01:26:10,765 --> 01:26:13,233
in the western Libyan city
of Misrata.
1219
01:26:14,903 --> 01:26:16,703
Shrapnel from the explosion
1220
01:26:16,738 --> 01:26:20,373
killed both
British born Hetherington
and American Hondros.
1221
01:26:20,408 --> 01:26:21,875
Two others were injured.
1222
01:27:26,474 --> 01:27:30,744
I have always...
I have always been very, very proud of him.
1223
01:27:30,779 --> 01:27:37,317
He had a dangerous job
but we talked about it
many times.
1224
01:27:37,352 --> 01:27:42,789
You see, that was his decision,
it was his job, he loved it.
1225
01:27:44,426 --> 01:27:47,994
I'm still a little bit mad
that he had to go,
1226
01:27:48,029 --> 01:27:52,899
but I always say he did more
living in 41 years
1227
01:27:52,934 --> 01:27:55,369
than some men
that are 100 years old.
1228
01:27:58,039 --> 01:28:01,808
You know I have been
a photographer
since I was 16 years old.
1229
01:28:01,843 --> 01:28:04,645
I have no idea what I would do
if I hadn't done this.
1230
01:28:07,449 --> 01:28:09,482
Even though as war photographers
1231
01:28:09,517 --> 01:28:14,521
you see so much devastation
and you see so much of humanity
1232
01:28:14,556 --> 01:28:17,023
at its worst, it's to me
balanced by the fact that
1233
01:28:17,058 --> 01:28:19,326
you also see humanity
often at its best.
1234
01:28:19,361 --> 01:28:22,495
I've seen such
examples of courage
and such examples
1235
01:28:22,530 --> 01:28:26,800
of human generosity in
my work as well and to me
1236
01:28:26,835 --> 01:28:30,304
that's been a balance
to all the horrible things
that I've seen.
1237
01:28:53,862 --> 01:28:57,564
In 2003, I was just
a photographer,
still photographer,
1238
01:28:57,599 --> 01:29:00,567
and I actually wanted to
become a photojournalist.
1239
01:29:00,602 --> 01:29:03,503
Chris Hondros came here
to tell our story
1240
01:29:03,538 --> 01:29:06,740
that brought that war to an end
so I learn a lot.
1241
01:29:06,775 --> 01:29:08,842
2005 he came back,
we worked together.
1242
01:29:10,545 --> 01:29:12,879
He give me this sight
and I'm there.
1243
01:29:14,616 --> 01:29:18,418
I'm now a staff photographer
for the European
Pressphoto Agency.
1244
01:29:22,624 --> 01:29:25,358
So I always imagining him
with the angles I take,
1245
01:29:25,393 --> 01:29:27,494
that's always
coming into my head.
1246
01:29:33,768 --> 01:29:37,771
I feel spiritually
that Chris is in me.
1247
01:29:40,141 --> 01:29:42,476
I'm overwhelmed with his spirit.
115942