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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 CLICK, WHIRRING 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,720 Previously on The Hack... 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,880 Hacking phones at the News Of The World has been endemic. 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:13,080 Endemic? 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:14,760 They've hacked thousands. 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,400 There is an industry making huge profit 7 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,080 from invading people's private lives, 8 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:20,040 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids 9 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,880 have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it. 10 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Charlotte Harris? Nick Davies of The Guardian. 11 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,160 I can't talk to you about specific cases, 12 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,920 but I can tell you there is so much more to come. 13 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,400 ALAN: Show me what you have. 14 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,800 A printout of an email proving a payment of £7,000 15 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,320 to Mulcaire for a story on Gordon Taylor. 16 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,600 And the police have access to all of this and more. 17 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,120 In my opinion, what I have seen 18 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,160 is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives. 19 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,880 'And since no additional evidence has come to light, 20 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,120 'I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry.' 21 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,640 Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 22 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,360 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 23 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,440 Are you reading the statement? No. 24 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:00,800 But I do have things to say. 25 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,480 DIALLING, THUNDER RUMBLING 26 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,520 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Welcome to your voicemail. 27 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,880 'You have three new messages. 28 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,880 'To listen to your messages, press one.' 29 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,160 BEEP 30 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,640 'Papa here. Just wondering when you're over. 31 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,280 'Oh, er, the kitchen tap seems to be fixed now, 32 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,840 'which is good. So, er...' BEEP 33 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,160 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Message deleted. Next message.' 34 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,600 'Nick, it's Sheridan. 35 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,240 'Erm, just to say I got a call from the bank today. 36 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,600 'They said it's in relation to the remortgage, but...' 37 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,280 SHE SIGHS '..I felt like someone was fishing.' 38 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,200 BEEP 'Message deleted. 39 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,479 'Next message.' 40 00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:43,680 'Nick, we're putting together a legal response for Alan. 41 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,200 'But we need to speak to you about the Select Committee....' 42 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,800 VOICE FADES INTO FEEDBACK 43 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,640 THUNDER RUMBLING 44 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,320 Oh, God. 45 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,880 Don't you dare. 46 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,000 Has Alan rung again? Possibly. 47 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,520 Possibly? 48 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,240 Could be the school telling me my son's broken his leg. 49 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,800 Or Rebekah Brooks declaring surrender. 50 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,280 Or it could be Alan asking where I am 51 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:18,840 and whether David Leigh is with me. 52 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,640 I didn't answer. I didn't want to lie to him. 53 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:22,880 Perhaps he'll leave a voicemail. 54 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,920 Why are we here? Good question. 55 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:28,440 Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 56 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,240 Now, we have a lot of questions, 57 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,600 so try and keep opening statements short. 58 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,240 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 59 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,480 ATTENDEES CHUCKLING Erm, but I do have... 60 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,560 There is quite a lot for me to say. 61 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,640 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, copies of an email. 62 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:44,720 With respect, Mr Davies, 63 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,960 er, we have quite a few questions for you. I understand. 64 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,160 But I think your questions will be given context... 65 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,480 Let's open with a question from... Mr Whittingdale. 66 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,680 Do you want the evidence or not? 67 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,520 I would like to read it. 68 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:05,800 Yup? OK. 69 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,240 There you go. OK. 70 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,400 This is an email sent for Neville Thurlbeck, 71 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:20,960 Chief Reporter for News Of The World. 72 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,760 A document the police have had for some time. 73 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,600 A document that contains transcripts of hacked voicemails. 74 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,240 I hope you'll agree this backs up our claims. 75 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,560 But what's more unsettling is that Scotland Yard 76 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,040 have never arrested or interviewed Neville Thurlbeck. 77 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,320 My chief concern is... 78 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:39,960 Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic, 79 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,760 but if we can get back to the matter in hand. 80 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Mr Whittingdale, I'm very worried 81 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,079 that News International journalists have been breaking the law. 82 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,120 And equally worried that Scotland Yard 83 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,920 do not appear to have investigated them. 84 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,720 ATTENDEES MURMURING 85 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,560 Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic. 86 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,360 It's amazing what you can do with kids' glue and some black paper. 87 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,720 You... You got your kids to redact a... 88 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,760 They enjoyed it. They like craft. 89 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,320 Good revolutionaries. 90 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,320 BOTH CHUCKLE Yeah. 91 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,320 What was that letter Che Guevara wrote to his kids? 92 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,160 PHONE BUZZES 93 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,680 Alan. 94 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:28,480 Hi. 95 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,960 No, it was fine. 96 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,600 I think we got away with it. 97 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,320 What are they saying? 98 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:45,400 Yes. 99 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,640 HE INHALES SHARPLY 100 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,640 Can you just... Yes. 101 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,240 Right. Thanks for letting me know. 102 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,240 David Leppard, The Sunday Times. 103 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,840 Why is Leppard phoning you? 104 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:01,320 Er, it wasn't him. 105 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,400 Leppard's spreading a story 106 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,720 that I hired John Ford to hack voicemail. 107 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,480 It's apparently all over Parliament. 108 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,400 John Ford, the blagger? You wouldn't use John Ford. 109 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,960 They're saying it's in relation to our investigation of Monsanto. 110 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,160 I did use an intelligence firm. 111 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,440 Limosis. 112 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,000 It's possible they... subcontracted to John Ford. 113 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,720 Well, The Guardian isn't in trouble any more. 114 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:31,920 I am. 115 00:05:41,159 --> 00:05:43,520 DOG BARKING 116 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:54,800 John Ford. 117 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,920 John Ford had had his hand 118 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,640 in and out of Alastair Campbell's trash for years. 119 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,120 But his real talent was for blagging. 120 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,000 An ex-actor with style. He did all sorts to get all sorts. 121 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000 Gordon Brown's bank records, for one. 122 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,600 And Alan may have hired him, which... 123 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:15,920 Well... DAVID SNORING 124 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,320 ..the newspaper industry loves a bit of hypocrisy to expose. 125 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,520 BIRDSONG 126 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,200 Morning. 127 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,960 Not the face you were hoping to wake up to? 128 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,720 HE GRUNTS 129 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,360 You know, I think the time has come to admit 130 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,720 that John Ford isn't home. 131 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,640 David Leigh, investigations editor at The Guardian. 132 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,520 Also, Alan's brother-in-law. 133 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,360 The Sunday Times have got him well hid. 134 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,800 NICK GROANS, SNIFFS 135 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,200 I think we can give him another day. 136 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,240 Perhaps we can get hold of Alan's paper trail? 137 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,440 Get inside the intelligence firm. 138 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:06,920 Start again. 139 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,280 It'll take too long, they'll publish before... 140 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,600 Then Alan will take a hit, and we hope he survives it. 141 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,360 But sitting here, Nick... 142 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,720 ..it's getting us nowhere. 143 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,240 This is not all my fault. 144 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:21,760 Murdoch's an eel. 145 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,480 He's entirely relentless. 146 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,760 I'm not picking a fight with Murdoch. 147 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,360 No. 148 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,320 You're picking a fight with our entire industry. 149 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,600 PHONE BUZZES Don't answer it. 150 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,800 No, do. Do. Don't let them leave a voicemail. 151 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,600 NOTIFICATION CHIMES It's an email. Oh. 152 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,440 A statement from the Crown Prosecution Service. 153 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,040 The CPS says, 154 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,080 "It's not appropriate to reopen the case or revisit the decision." 155 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,240 HE GROANS 156 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,720 They're not backing us. 157 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,440 What was it that John Yates said about the case? 158 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,880 Something about a small number of, er... 159 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:00,960 Of hacks, yeah. 160 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,880 Our inquiries showed that they only used the tactic 161 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,160 against a far smaller number of individuals. 162 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,680 Page two. 163 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,040 "Searched Mulcaire's office, seized material which indicated 164 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,240 "some non-royal cases had been hacked." Yup. 165 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,520 "The DPP states... 166 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,720 "only a select sample of these could be taken to court 167 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:26,480 "because any other approach might have made the case unmanageable." 168 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,560 Unmanageable? That suggests a lot of hacking. 169 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,000 By more than one reporter. Yeah. 170 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,039 Almost an admission of such. 171 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,280 I'll write, you call. 172 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Got it. PHONE BEEPING 173 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,200 That means you need to leave the car. 174 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:43,559 Got it. Yeah. 175 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,120 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 176 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,160 MAN: 'Hi there.' 177 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,760 I need to speak to somebody at the CPS 178 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,760 about the Glenn Mulcaire prosecution. 179 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,120 'Er, yes, yes. But specifically, how can I help?' 180 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,520 Specifically? 181 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,520 I want to know what the police passed up 182 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,600 and you declined to prosecute because any other approach 183 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,040 would have been, quote, "unmanageable". 184 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,680 'OK...' I have information, 185 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,120 particularly an email that I want to discuss. 186 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,320 'Er, yes, sir. Erm, can I put you on hold?' 187 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:12,720 Yes, I will hold. 188 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,760 HOLD MUSIC: # Never gonna give you up 189 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,760 # Never gonna let you down... # Really? 190 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:20,720 The plot thickens. 191 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,640 The Neville email was never flagged. 192 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,920 The Met never flagged it to the CPS. 193 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,280 Why not? 194 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,280 I can't give this up. It's too important. 195 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,760 No, I know. 196 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,680 But I won't let it hurt Alan. 197 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,320 I'm not entirely sure you can make that promise. 198 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,360 BELL TOLLING 199 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,440 Hi. Hi. 200 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,040 Made you a sandwich. Oh, cheers. 201 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,480 You look rough. 202 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,960 Yeah, and you look beautiful (!) 203 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,560 I'm not sleeping. 204 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,280 No, neither am I. 205 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:16,520 Daniel Morgan. 206 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:17,640 Anything I can... 207 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,600 I can't tell you anything. You know that. 208 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,800 Is there something to tell... No. 209 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,480 Christ. Salmon and cream cheese, eh? 210 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,560 Scottish salmon. DAVE CHUCKLES 211 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,720 And I need some non-Daniel Morgan advice. 212 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,720 You're saying poncy sandwiches don't come free? 213 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,080 Why would the Met not flag evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service? 214 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,720 CPS don't get everything. 215 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,560 And everything it does get has to pass the relevance test, right? 216 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,360 Correct. OK. 217 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,560 So, is this relevant? 218 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,960 They're transcripts for Neville Thurlbeck, 219 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,880 Chief Reporter at the News of the Word. 220 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,040 And they didn't get shown this? 221 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,520 They put it through as "unused material". 222 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:03,880 Shit. 223 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,160 Tell me. What is happening in the Met? 224 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,800 Well, there's obviously a lot I can't tell you. 225 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,520 But what I can say... 226 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,960 is that ever since Stephen Lawrence, 227 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,440 the Met have made it their job to... 228 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,760 Well, Dick Fedorcio, director of communications. 229 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:20,960 Yeah, I've met him. 230 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,760 He currently sits on the Met's senior management team. 231 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,360 Our comms chief, not a police officer. 232 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,960 And he has direct impact on operational decisions. 233 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,600 Good press matters that much? 234 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,600 These meetings are dominated 235 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,880 by how to get the cases that are going well 236 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,200 on the front of the tabloids 237 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,000 and the cases that are not going so well off them. 238 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,440 By order of the Commissioner, 239 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,760 Dick will wine and dine the crime journalists. 240 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,360 And guess who he meets the most? 241 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,840 News Of The World and The Sun. 242 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,240 But not flagging this to the CPS? 243 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,360 It's bad. Very bad. Look, will you stop doing that? 244 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,920 You're making me jumpy. I think I'm being watched. 245 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,720 What, you got anything to hide? You, for one thing. 246 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,840 Hey, I'm just meeting a pal for a poncy sandwich. 247 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,840 Glenn Mulcaire did a minimum 20,000 hours' work 248 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,960 for the News Of The World. 249 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,640 That's on record. It's an industrial level of work. 250 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,000 Which means he worked for far more journalists than Clive Goodman. 251 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,800 So, Neville Thurlbeck appears to be one other, but... 252 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,440 was he feeding all of them? 253 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,840 Nick, just be careful, OK? 254 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,840 See, these people... 255 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,440 are not to be fucked with. 256 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,040 PHONE RINGING 257 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,800 FRIDGE DOOR OPENS, CLOSES 258 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,080 There you go, boys. 259 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,440 Charlotte Harris. 260 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,080 'Nick Davies.' 261 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,200 Right. 262 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,240 You sound delighted to hear from me. 263 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,560 'Delighted and not surprised. 264 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:57,480 'How'd you get this number? Did you blag it?' 265 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,720 Your office gave it to me. 266 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,760 I can be very polite and surprisingly charming. 267 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,560 If you're calling about the CPS enhancement, 268 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:04,840 I'm as pissed off as you are, but there's nothing I can do. 269 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Look, the CPS have a file on Glenn Mulcaire. 270 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:08,920 'You must know someone...' 271 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,760 Nick, I don't work for you, and I've got to go. 272 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:11,920 Good luck, and goodbye. 273 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,440 Er, right. OK. 274 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,080 Glenn Mulcaire. 275 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,600 Chief phone hacker for the News Of The World. 276 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,960 Given six months' jail time for the Clive Goodman case, 277 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,560 but now he's out and about. 278 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:27,120 And sniffing about. 279 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,400 DOOR OPENS 280 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,120 Mr Mulcaire? Nick Davies. 281 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:43,520 I saw you. 282 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:44,840 Maroon Saab by the park. 283 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,240 Think I'd do what I do without being good at it? 284 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,880 I don't know if you've been reading my pieces in The Guardian? 285 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,760 You taping this? 286 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,920 No. No, I wouldn't do that without your consent, Mr Mulcaire. 287 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,360 It's Glenn. 288 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,440 So, who else are you talking to, Nick? 289 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,000 Got anyone good in the police? 290 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,720 Who's your snout at the screws? 291 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,600 Who are YOU still talking to at that paper? 292 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,280 CHUCKLES SOFTLY You're funny. 293 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:10,840 Why are you here? 294 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,120 Did you ever work for Neville Thurlbeck? 295 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,680 Oh, right. Let me save you some time... 296 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,600 I have an email written to you, 297 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,960 er, which is marked for Neville 298 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,360 from Ross Hindley, and it contains transcripts of 35... 299 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,680 Everything I did came out in court. 300 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,560 Anything more than that, I didn't do. 301 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,320 They cut you off, right? 302 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,280 You do know you're still open to future charges? 303 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,760 Get out now, before the whole thing collapses on you. 304 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,480 You know I've got five kids in there. 305 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,360 And you come to my house and what, threaten me? 306 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,800 I wasn't threatening you. 307 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,440 You any idea what you're dealing with? 308 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,160 GLENN CHUCKLES 309 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,680 Look, you do yours, and I'll do mine, yeah? 310 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:48,920 I wasn't threatening you. 311 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,520 I was just telling you they won't help. 312 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,160 'OK, so, there is a lie happening here.' 313 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,560 The CPS memo shows this stretches right inside News International. 314 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,480 Glenn Mulcaire essentially confirmed it. 315 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:04,760 He didn't confirm it. 316 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,880 I'm digging in. In the meantime, I'd like to publish 317 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,960 "Are Scotland Yard Scared of Rupert Murdoch?" 318 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,080 Saying what? 319 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,040 Saying they... 320 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,680 buried evidence which should have been passed to the CPS. 321 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,360 Poking the bear. Well, that's what we do now. Poke the bear. 322 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,680 No. Can we just take a minute? What's your angle here? 323 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,120 Well, I have two lines of attack. 324 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,560 One, to reveal who was on their shopping list. 325 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:25,840 I need names. Much more of them. 326 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,520 There were far more than, than... three royals, five non-royals. 327 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,280 I want to know who signed off on these names. 328 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,080 I need proof it was more than Clive Goodman. 329 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:33,240 How will you get that? 330 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,440 My second line of attack is to get inside the police... 331 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,280 A mistake. ..to discover why this evidence 332 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:39,760 wasn't flagged to the CPS. 333 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,320 What criminality was ignored, and why? 334 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,080 John Yates called me and said we've got the wrong end of the stick 335 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,240 with the police in all this. 336 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,880 WE'RE on the wrong end of the stick? Yes! 337 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,680 Do you not think that's possible? 338 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,800 Look, are we sure this is sensible? 339 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,920 We're risking our relationship with the police 340 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,200 and with good journalists from other newspapers. 341 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,320 Why? To root out a few bad apples. 342 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,440 It doesn't seem... Bad apples, wrong sticks?! 343 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:01,840 I agree with Nick. 344 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,400 The Neville email is extraordinary, 345 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,160 and the fact that they didn't flag it to the CPS 346 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:08,440 more extraordinary still. 347 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,920 A chief reporter seems to have been involved in hacking. 348 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,960 That didn't warrant an investigation? 349 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,040 There are potentially thousands of victims, 350 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,920 but the Met is only claiming a small number. 351 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,800 What do you think, Gill? 352 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,480 For a public interest defence, 353 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,720 you need to be absolutely sure of your facts. 354 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Right now, this feels a bit small. 355 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,840 I have to say I agree. 356 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,160 Let's pause on the Scotland Yard article. 357 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,760 Let's let the PCC... 358 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,160 Press Complaints Commission. 359 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,960 The PCC will settle all of this down. 360 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,840 They'll back us, and it will all be easier. 361 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,320 What else have we got? 362 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,160 Something other than 363 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,320 "When's Gordon Brown going to call this next damn election?" 364 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,400 DAVID: 'Listen, Alan's nervous, but he's right.' 365 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,880 You need more, but the angles you're pursuing, also right. 366 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,120 Who says the PCC are gonna back us? 367 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,600 What, you don't think they will? 368 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,200 Why is Alan waiting for them? You know we have to keep pushing. 369 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,040 It's kill or be killed. We can't wait. 370 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,440 Yes. The Sunday Times are getting ready to publish 371 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,520 on John Ford and Alan. 372 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,720 Right. Mm. 373 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,319 Have Limosis come back with any more? 374 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,960 Nothing that gives us categorical proof. 375 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,640 He's in trouble. 376 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,280 Just give him time. 377 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,280 They're accusing him of being a hypocrite. 378 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,280 We have hypocrisy on hypocrisy. The world's gone mad. 379 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:24,720 Look, Nick... 380 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,400 Nick. 381 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,360 No, Nick. Nick, Nick. 382 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,960 Whatever you're doing, Nick, stop. NICK DIALLING 383 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,320 LINE RINGING OUT 384 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,560 WOMAN: 'Hello?' 385 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,320 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 386 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,560 Can I have The Sunday Times managing editor's office? 387 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:46,960 WHISPERS: I mean it, Nick. 388 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,080 WOMAN 2: 'Hello?' 389 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,920 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 390 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,200 'Right.' Yeah. 391 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,560 I'd like confirmation, on the record, 392 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,480 of, A, how many times you've made payments to John Ford 393 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,800 to blag into confidential databases, 394 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,840 and B, the period of time over which these payments have been made. 395 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,400 'OK. We'll need to investigate.' 396 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,560 Of course. You'll need to do some investigation. 397 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:11,960 You just call me back 398 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,520 whenever you've had the chance to do so, yeah? 399 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,120 'Right.' 400 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,080 Great, thanks. Bye-bye. 401 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,080 GLENN SIGHS Hi. 402 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,840 Peace offering. 403 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,040 I don't drink. 404 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,280 Can I get you something softer? 405 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,360 A Mars bar? GLENN CHUCKLES 406 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:40,680 Yeah, sure, I'd tell you everything I know for a Mars bar. 407 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,520 I wasn't... I'm not threatening you. 408 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,000 No, no. You're Willy Wonka. Chocolate for everyone. 409 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,360 NICK LAUGHS 410 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,920 I want to know your side of the story. 411 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,920 How'd you find me here? 412 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,280 You're on the club's website. 413 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,040 You won the Big Break competition two years ago. Congratulations. 414 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,800 In court transcripts, it says that you worked for 415 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,680 News Of The World for 70 hours a week. 416 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,720 Oh, here we go. 417 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,880 Over six years, that's over 20,000 hours. 418 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,760 What were you doing for them during that time? 419 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,400 I'm a PI. I did PI work. 420 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,720 For who? 421 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,600 Because it wasn't just Clive Goodman. 422 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,880 Oh, oh, oh. Naming names? That's two Mars bars, at least. 423 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,040 I know you aren't to blame for all this. 424 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,440 Your name is in the mud already. 425 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,800 If you explain exactly what you did and who you were working for... 426 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,400 Even if I wanted to tell you who, 427 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,600 the police have got all my notebooks and my computers 428 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,200 and everything, so... 429 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,880 Notebooks? What's in those? 430 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,400 GLENN SIGHS 431 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,000 Fuck you. It was in the CPS report that your office was searched 432 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,520 and material seized, but I didn't know there were notebooks. 433 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,200 You find me a PI who doesn't write things down. 434 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,400 Well, what's in them? Lines of inquiry? 435 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,280 Names of the people you were hacking - 436 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,240 sorry, doing PI work on? 437 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,960 And the names of who you were doing them for? 438 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,800 Names of the News Of The World journalists. 439 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,480 Go away. 440 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,600 And take your cheap beer with you. 441 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,440 I do not think... 442 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,760 genuinely, really do not think that you should be the fall guy here. 443 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,320 Yeah, well, be careful that you're not a fall guy too. 444 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,800 Eh, champ? 445 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,720 Now, please fuck off. 446 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,200 Let me do the one thing I still enjoy. 447 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,440 All right. 448 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,080 Good luck. 449 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,400 'Mulcaire's given me an idea.' 450 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,680 CHARLOTTE: 'Good. All he's given me is a headache.' 451 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,880 We need to get inside the court system, 452 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,640 we need to get more information released. 453 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:32,840 'Sorry?' 454 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,680 They won't release documents to me. 455 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,640 They will if they're compelled to by a judge. 456 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,960 'Hang on. Can you calm down?' 457 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,160 What? 458 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,560 Children. 459 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,320 You are aware it's the weekend? 460 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,160 Oh, right. The police have Mulcaire's notebooks. 461 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,840 If we can get them into the public eye, we'll see... 462 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,480 who hired who, how high this goes, who was being hacked. 463 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,520 'I need... We need compelled evidence.' 464 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,760 KIDS CHATTERING 465 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,720 You swapped between "I need" and "We need" 466 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,320 in the same sentence, do you know that? 467 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,840 I know you've other clients. 468 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,880 I know you're building several cases here. 469 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,920 'Help me, it'll help you too.' 470 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,200 KIDS LAUGHING 471 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,520 We don't work together, Nick. 472 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,680 Well, of course we don't. But we do have the same cause. 473 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,520 'I can't get inside the notebooks 474 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,640 'because I'm not mentioned in the notebooks.' 475 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,320 But you find a client who IS in there, 476 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,000 who has the bravery to take it to court, suddenly... 477 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,040 you can see how much this opens up. 478 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,480 Yeah. 479 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,200 SHE INHALES SHARPLY 480 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,960 Let me, erm... 481 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,120 There might be somebody you could talk to. 482 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,760 Well, let me know as soon as you can, OK? 483 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,480 Yes, I heard you. I'm on it. 484 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,160 OK, thanks. Bye. 485 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,080 There is an art to fear. 486 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,000 An art the News Of The World and The Sun 487 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,520 and all those nasty buggers mastered a long time ago. 488 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,560 They call it monstering. 489 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,040 Grievous emotional harm. 490 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,560 The kind of injury from which some victims simply never recover. 491 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,640 A monstering is intended to destroy the victim involved, 492 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,320 and it is intended to make sure 493 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,360 that no-one stands up to them ever again. 494 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,600 Take former Labour government minister Clare Short. 495 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,960 She criticised The Sun's use of topless women to sell the paper. 496 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,240 She found herself denounced to millions as... 497 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,040 Killjoy Clare. 498 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,800 Short on looks... 499 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Short on brains. 500 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,200 The paper offered free car stickers, 501 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,440 sent page three models round to her home, 502 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,600 ran a beauty contest to ask their readers 503 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,720 whether they would prefer to see her face or the back of a bus. 504 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,040 PHOTOGRAPHERS CLAMOURING 505 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,720 The News Of The World ran two bogus stories 506 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,120 suggesting Clare was involved in pornography, 507 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,600 tried to buy old photographs of her as a 20-year-old in a nightdress 508 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,960 and published a smear story 509 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,560 which attempted to link her to a West Indian gangster. 510 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,360 GUN COCKS, FIRES 511 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,080 They monstered her. 512 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,760 It was horrible. 513 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,040 In his diary, Alastair Campbell recalls the ferocious monstering 514 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,520 which was given to the then Transport Secretary, 515 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,000 Stephen Byers, in 2002. 516 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000 It continued even after he resigned. 517 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,800 It's like they get a corpse, 518 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,560 but then they're disappointed there's nothing left to kill. 519 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,680 So they try and kill the dead body too. 520 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,880 So standing up to it, 521 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,000 standing up to that paper takes guts. 522 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:22,600 And possibly a little insanity. 523 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,880 Max, it's an honour. 524 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,000 An honour? Is that right? 525 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:29,600 Max Clifford. 526 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,480 King of the kiss and tell. 527 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,520 His job was bargaining with the tabloids 528 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,840 to get the best headlines and the most money 529 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,240 for his string of clients. 530 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,320 Didn't need to be true, just needed to sell. 531 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,320 Do you remember "Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster"? 532 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,720 He wrote that headline. 533 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,720 But maybe it takes a tabloid man to kill the tabloids. 534 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,800 I'm sincerely grateful for you being here. 535 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,440 Charlotte explained your problem. 536 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,160 I have a feeling that our interests might align on this. 537 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,640 They hacked me. That's on record. 538 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,960 And I want to find out who signed off on it. 539 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,560 Well, that's extremely important. 540 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,000 We HOPE it will be important. 541 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,680 We've had our first disclosure. We made an application to the courts. 542 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,520 This is everything Mulcaire wrote about Max. 543 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,080 Hm. 544 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,240 They've redacted everything. 545 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,120 In particular, anything which might identify 546 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:25,520 the News Of The World journalists 547 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,280 who might have commissioned the hacking. 548 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,240 I'm going back to court. We'll get more. 549 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,680 Question. When they disclosed Gordon Taylor's paperwork, 550 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,880 did they redact anything? 551 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,800 No. Why start now? 552 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,480 Because it implicates them. 553 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,680 So did Gordon Taylor. 554 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,600 They're... They're working out how to make themselves impenetrable. 555 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,240 They're watching us. 556 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:48,960 You do know what you're taking on? 557 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Do you know who you're talking to? 558 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,400 I believe Rebekah Brooks is your friend. 559 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,040 Didn't you help her when she was accused of assault? 560 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,720 I help her. But not in that case. 561 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,400 I have my loyalties, and I have beliefs. 562 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,240 I mean, I know Andy Coulson. 563 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,000 But him, sitting next to the Prime Minister, 564 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,480 that's wrong in every way. 565 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,320 All the same... 566 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,080 I've spent my entire life inside that machine. 567 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,400 I know what their guns smell like. 568 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,440 Do you? 569 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,240 We need you, Max. 570 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,480 Christ. If I'm your best hope... 571 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,000 you're fucked. 572 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,200 SHERIDAN: You look tired. 573 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,480 Are you sleeping? 574 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,400 Oh, I've definitely slept better. 575 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,800 That, erm, mortgage application, did that come back at all? 576 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,000 No, but there was something else. Erm... 577 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,360 So, when I was picking the kids up, er, someone I didn't recognise 578 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,000 started talking to me about a Maggie someone. 579 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,160 Now, that's an ex of yours, right? 580 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,920 Oh, God. Did they see the kids? 581 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,360 Yeah, I mean, they kept it casual, but... 582 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,200 Shit! 583 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,960 Maggie? God, they're desperately digging. 584 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,800 I didn't like it, Nick. 585 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,000 School gate. 586 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,360 KNOCK AT DOOR 587 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,200 Well, look, they approach you again, 588 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,320 you take out your phone, you take a photograph. 589 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,760 OK. 590 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,000 And promise me it's not gonna get worse than this. 591 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,960 Well, they'd be really stupid to do anything I could print. 592 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,200 But I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. 593 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,520 Will they find any skeletons? 594 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,120 If they look properly, they'll find a cemetery. 595 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:37,880 KNOCKING This is a delivery. 596 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,680 You stay where you are. No, no, no. Let me go. 597 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,960 All right. We'll... Let's talk later. 598 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,040 Bye, kids. 599 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,240 Bye. KIDS: Bye. 600 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,560 DOOR OPENS Alan! 601 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,920 Sheridan. Oh... 602 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,200 How are you? 603 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,240 I'm good. You all right? Mm. 604 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720 I am, erm... I'll leave you to it. 605 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,400 Hello. You coming in? 606 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:57,960 No. 607 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,680 I've got food on. There's enough. 608 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,520 I have some, er, good news, actually. 609 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,880 Max Clifford, of all people, taking them to court. 610 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,800 John Ford thing's gone away. 611 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,960 Great. 612 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,920 You think I don't know how? 613 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,080 Let's talk inside. 614 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,120 Nick Davies, 615 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,520 always guaranteed to bring a flamethrower to a knife fight. 616 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,040 It was the best thing to do. 617 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,720 You didn't think to consult me beforehand? 618 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,080 It's gone away, Alan. 619 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,320 Because you, erm... 620 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,080 What's the right word to use here? 621 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,320 ..provoked them. 622 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,400 In Flat Earth News, I found substantial proof 623 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,240 that The Sunday Times were using John Ford. 624 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,560 That doesn't matter. Of course it matters. 625 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,920 They were wrong to use John Ford. 626 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,560 I was wrong if I did, inadvertently, use John Ford. 627 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,280 And you were wrong to get involved 628 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,440 in a way that wasn't asked for and wasn't warranted. 629 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,760 I was trying to broker peace with John Witherow, 630 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,520 and you could have destabilised that, 631 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,360 and starting a fight with the News Of The World 632 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,880 and The Sunday Times... 633 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,840 I knew it would work. Are you denying that it did? 634 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,040 No. But if you knew it would work, 635 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,440 why didn't you make that call at the very beginning? 636 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,080 Why did you try and find him? 637 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,160 Spend a couple of nights in a car with David Leigh? 638 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,040 Jesus Christ, Nick, you're such a... 639 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,200 ..hazard. 640 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,480 I was just following what was... 641 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,280 Alan, come on. Look... HE CHUCKLES 642 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,880 We need to keep pushing. 643 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,280 They will push back. We need to keep pushing. 644 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,440 I get it, you're exhausted. 645 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,720 You think you're taking on everyone by yourself, 646 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,160 but it's not just you in the box on this one, Nick. 647 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,360 It's all of us. 648 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,440 And I can't have a hand on your leg the whole time. 649 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,120 CAR DOOR CLOSES 650 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,000 ENGINE STARTS 651 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,600 HE SIGHS 652 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,560 HE SIGHS 653 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,520 NICK'S MOTHER: 'What have you done? 654 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,440 'You stupid child.' 655 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,880 PHONE BUZZES 656 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,760 Yeah? 657 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,080 DAVID: 'I guessed you'd be up.' Yup. 658 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,320 'The Press Complaints Commission have come back.' 659 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,680 Not good news? 660 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,280 ' "The PCC has seen no new evidence 661 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,160 ' "to suggest that the practice of the phone messaging tapping 662 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,680 ' "was undertaken by other beyond Goodman and Mulcaire 663 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,440 ' "or evidence that the News Of The World executives 664 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,440 ' "knew about Goodman or Mulcaire's activities." 665 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,200 'You were right, Alan was wrong. They haven't backed us either.' 666 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,280 Yeah, OK. 667 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,800 'Sorry, Nick.' Mm. Thanks for calling. 668 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,040 Bye. 'Bye.' 669 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,840 PHONE BUZZES 670 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,960 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Please enter your four-digit PIN.' 671 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,160 DIALLING 672 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,200 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Welcome to your voicemail. 673 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,640 'You have four new messages. 674 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,160 'To listen to your messages, press one.' 675 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,080 BEEP 'Er, this is Carl. 676 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,400 'I'm here to read your meter. You said you'd be here...' 677 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,120 BEEP 'Message deleted. Next message.' 678 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,640 'Hey, it's Charlotte. 679 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,480 'We've entered the amended claim for Max, 680 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,200 'and we're waiting for the courts...' 681 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,960 BEEP 'Message deleted. Next message.' 682 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,480 SHERIDAN: 'Nick, hi, it's me. Er, another one. 683 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,920 'Not sure if it's anything, but a girl you used to...' 684 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,320 'Message deleted. 685 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,000 'Next message.' 686 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,560 FEEDBACK, ELECTRICAL WHIRRING 687 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,760 HE TAKES DEEP BREATH 688 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,120 HE CLEARS THROAT 689 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,080 KNOCKING 690 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,680 Hello, Dad. 691 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,120 You're looking thinner. 692 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,640 You look good. 693 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,160 Still a charmer. 694 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,880 CROCKERY RATTLING 695 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,640 I should be helping with that, Papa. 696 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,000 Ha. Should, would, could. 697 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,720 No, you can't. 698 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,800 Anyway, these are the good hours. 699 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,280 What's that mean? 700 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,240 Hips hurt, knees hurt, back hurts till 11:00am, 701 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,360 and then again from 3:00pm. 702 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,880 But 11:00 till 3:00... Is a holiday. 703 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,760 Never get old. 704 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,480 So, you've got four good hours, and you sleep for... 705 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:47,760 presumably eight... 706 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,280 Yes, well, don't turn it into a maths puzzle. 707 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,040 I can still do the crossword, however my hips feel. 708 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,280 That's all that counts. 709 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,840 The crossword in The Times. 710 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,880 Should I stop buying The Times? 711 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,200 Yes. 712 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,080 I won't. I know. 713 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,600 I've, erm, been reading your pieces. 714 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,000 You even managed to watch the Select Committee. 715 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,720 I have no idea how you even did that. 716 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,360 I'm not a dinosaur! 717 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,040 I can use the Internet. 718 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,280 So, is it all as hard as it looks? 719 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,480 It's fine. 720 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,120 You've got nothing to prove. 721 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,960 I'm not trying to prove anything. 722 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,200 Your mother would have liked it. 723 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,240 All this trouble. 724 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,760 She always liked trouble. 725 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,400 Just be safe with yourself. 726 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,880 That's all I ask. 727 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,560 Just be safe. 728 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,000 Thank you. 729 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,680 Fifth floor, yeah? 730 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,920 TICKING 731 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,400 DOOR CREAKS 732 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,960 Mr Davies. Assistant Commissioner. 733 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,000 Thank you for coming in. Thank you. 734 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,840 Dick said we should meet. Yes. 735 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,400 Dick Fedorcio was kind enough to arrange the meeting. 736 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,560 I thought it useful so we could smooth matters over, 737 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,920 so we can help each other. 738 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,320 Mm. I don't think I can help. 739 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,080 No, no, no. I'm here to help you. 740 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,120 A story that makes Scotland Yard look good. 741 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,120 I just need you to confirm that in order to be able to, 742 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,880 er, inform all the potential victims of the hacking, 743 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,720 that you've set up a new database 744 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,600 containing all the evidence which you gathered in 2006. 745 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,840 Have we? 746 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,760 Er... 747 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,560 Well, I've very good word 748 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,600 from lawyers who've been in touch with the Yard, 749 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,560 saying that you're taking the need to organise 750 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,159 the evidence which perhaps wasn't organised quite so well seriously. 751 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,560 All right, fine. 752 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,000 Maybe we have organised a database. 753 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,719 I will give you that. 754 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,120 But in return, 755 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,719 maybe you can cease and desist with briefing everyone against me. 756 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,719 We have nothing to do with News International, 757 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:38,960 and you bloody well know it. 758 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,080 Assistant Commissioner, my interest... 759 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,960 Do you think I don't know what you're doing? 760 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,199 When I appeared in front of that damn Select Committee, 761 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,239 I could see, I could see in the eye movements of the MPs 762 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,840 that you'd briefed all but one of them. 763 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,520 I'm sorry, eye movements? 764 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,760 Mm-hm. I'm a clever cop, Mr Davies. 765 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,600 Right. 766 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,680 Why didn't you pass the CPS the email to Neville Thurlbeck 767 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,000 which clearly implicated him in the hacking scandal? 768 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,080 Was it because, well, as the CPS have said, 769 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,560 that you could only use a sample 770 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,720 because the evidence was unmanageable otherwise? 771 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:13,640 No. The CPS were clear. 772 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,440 With the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 773 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,560 it is only a crime 774 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,600 if the intended victim had not already heard the message. 775 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,440 No-one interprets RIPA like that except you. 776 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,320 All I want to know is the extent of this. 777 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,280 Can you tell me how many victims of phone hacking 778 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,560 you've been able to identify? 779 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,120 Mr Davies, 780 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,000 the Crown Prosecution Service do not agree with you. 781 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,080 The Press Complaints Commission do not agree with you. 782 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,480 And the Metropolitan Police certainly do not agree with you. 783 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,320 There's dog-minded, and then there's just dog. 784 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,680 This left-wing attack on Murdoch by The Guardian... 785 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,120 If you can't give me a bald number, 786 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,640 just tell me how many victims were in Mulcaire's notebooks. 787 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,320 HE LAUGHS 788 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,760 I have never fallen out with a journalist before. 789 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,760 Well, you finally have done so. 790 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,080 Congratulations. 791 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,800 DOOR OPENS 792 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,600 HE SIGHS 793 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,320 CHATTER 794 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,720 This is Kate Saunders from The Guardian newspaper... 795 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,880 PHONE RINGING 796 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,440 Hi. 797 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,040 Look, I brought you a gift. 798 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,040 It's an "I'm not sorry" gift. 799 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,080 Gonna look? 800 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,280 But I'm also, erm... 801 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,120 I'm stuck, so... 802 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,040 If calling it an "I'm not sorry" gift is offensive, 803 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,400 call it a "damn" gift. 804 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,440 As in, "Damn, I'm stuck. Please help". 805 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,080 Why are you stuck? 806 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,280 They are... Everybody is... 807 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,600 HE SIGHS 808 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,960 No-one is telling me the truth, and I... 809 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,360 Basic thing about you, Nick, 810 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,520 is that each time you find someone lying to you, 811 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,920 you are utterly amazed, 812 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,960 even though you've devoted most of your life to uncovering liars. 813 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,480 I wear the coat of a cynic only to conceal the heart... 814 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,560 ..of an agitated otter. 815 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,520 They, erm... Talking of cynicism, 816 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,280 they're now spreading a rumour that I have a love child. 817 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,600 A love child. 818 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:39,800 They're coming after me too. 819 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,120 Sheridan's been farming all sorts of calls. 820 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,040 But they're not telling lies about you. 821 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,800 Why are the only lies about me? Don't know. 822 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,840 Because they think attacking me 823 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,840 is the easiest way of shutting you up? 824 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,600 Clever, really. 825 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,040 They know I need you. 826 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,760 How curious you choose now to say something so kind. 827 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:02,960 Oh, God. 828 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,000 I'm your Sancho Panza. 829 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,640 HE LAUGHS 830 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,280 I always thought I was yours. 831 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,640 I'm sorry for making your life difficult. 832 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,920 I don't... 833 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,120 I don't take our friendship to mean that... 834 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,560 I don't - I don't expect you to print everything I write. 835 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,400 You're just doing what you're doing. 836 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,360 Which is why you're the best. 837 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,640 Which is why I pay you. Handsomely. 838 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,160 HE CHUCKLES 839 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,800 You're just as optimistic as me. 840 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,120 Christ, you thought the PCC would come back on our side. 841 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,160 Even I didn't... 842 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,560 How a so-called industry regulator could say that about us... 843 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,280 Well, it's the death of self-regulation. 844 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:42,920 Me? What do I do? 845 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,840 Can't you call your Mr Apollo? 846 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,080 No, he's gone. Said he would. 847 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,520 He always contacted me, never from the same line twice. 848 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,520 Well, wait for Max Clifford and your day in court. 849 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,640 Max is important, but we can't wait. We're in a firefight here. 850 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,360 They're gonna keep slinging mud till something sticks. 851 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,560 Then... 852 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,560 Oh, what about the phone companies? 853 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,000 Sorry? 854 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,640 Yates made that claim in the Select Committee 855 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,600 that they'd asked the companies if there were any other victims 856 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,840 of Mulcaire and Goodman, in order to take appropriate action. 857 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,680 Yeah, I remember. Well... 858 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:25,160 Ask the phone companies to disclose how many victims they identified 859 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:26,920 and warned of being hacked. 860 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,800 You might get the hacked numbers that way. 861 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:33,080 You're a genius, Sancho. 862 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,120 Never call me that again. 863 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,280 Go on. Click it. 864 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,280 Just click it. 865 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,800 PEN CLICKS Got books. She's not naked. 866 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,520 Those pens, you click, they're naked, but she's covered in books. 867 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,920 It's a joke. Thanks for explaining it to me. 868 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,920 I'll never use it. I'll never ask you to. 869 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,400 Thank you. 870 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,960 The Commissioner called after you left Yates. 871 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,760 He said to me that, erm, 872 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,800 your coverage of the hacking scandal 873 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,960 was exaggerated and incorrect. 874 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,880 It's the first time I've felt genuine confidence 875 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,080 that we're doing absolutely the right thing. 876 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,400 NICK CHUCKLES SOFTLY 877 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,920 Adios. 878 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,480 The Select Committee had, of course, rumbled on after us, 879 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,240 meeting press, politicians, the police. 880 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:24,240 Trying to meet Rebekah Brooks - she said no. 881 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,800 Though they succeeded in meeting Andy Coulson, who said... 882 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,440 As little as possible. 883 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,760 But they were working it as best they could. 884 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,160 And I was working with them as best I could, 885 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,000 feeding them occasional questions. 886 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,280 Which we asked in our own way. 887 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,000 Hadn't occurred to me that the police revealing - 888 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,440 in a memo written by Yates - 889 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,920 that the mobile phone companies had been contacted... 890 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,320 was a way in. 891 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,040 The police provided the individual phone companies 892 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,920 details of the telephone numbers. 893 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,280 And it was agreed that they would individually research, 894 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,880 assess and address whether or not, and to what degree, 895 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,160 their customers had been the subject of contact by the suspects. 896 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,680 What I'm looking to find out is, when the police contacted you, 897 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,840 what number of victims you managed to trace 898 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,280 and how many you contacted. 899 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,000 MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY Right, but... Yes. 900 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,960 But John Yates was quoted in the Select Committee 901 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,640 as saying you were spoken to, so... 902 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,080 MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY 903 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,680 My question is, did you ignore the Assistant Commissioner 904 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,240 of the Metropolitan Police? 905 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,040 Yeah, sure. Sure, I'll hold. DAVID: Nick. 906 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,440 O2, 40 victims. 907 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,000 Now, it's only one. 908 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,040 It's only one. When one goes, they all... 909 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,280 Yes, it is. Now, O2 have just confirmed 910 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,080 that once they were alerted by the police, 911 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,240 they contacted 40 hacking victims. 912 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:49,360 I just wondered whether you have a number for us. 913 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,000 Or have you more to hide than them? 914 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,920 MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY Great. Great. How many? 915 00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:57,880 MAN: 'Broadly the same as O2.' 916 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,880 You think you can do any better than "Broadly the same as O2"? 917 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,160 Orange have come back with 45 victims. 918 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,880 Do you want to match that number instead? 919 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,080 MAN LAUGHING IN NEWSROOM 920 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,960 No? OK. Right, OK. 921 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,880 Well, thank you very much. Thank you, bye. 922 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,360 O2, 40 victims. 923 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,480 Vodafone, 40 victims, Orange, 45 victims. 924 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,040 Together with the original eight, 925 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,000 that's more than 130 people who had their phones hacked. 926 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,160 Far more than Yates said. 927 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,800 And this is just the tip of a very, very big iceberg. 928 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,360 OK. Let's do it. 929 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,720 PRINTERS WHIRRING 930 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,000 'This wasn't just Goodman. 931 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,080 'This wasn't just the Royals. 932 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,280 'This was a practice. This was our foothold. 933 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,320 'And yet...' 934 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,400 Even though News International should have been on fire, 935 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,600 it, once again, barely hit the sides. 936 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,920 DISTORTED WHIZZING 937 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,560 And no other newspaper thought it was an important story either. 938 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:14,760 DAVE COOK: 'Good scoop.' 939 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,560 The mobile phone companies, very good. 940 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,080 Makes me happy to hear you say words like "scoop". 941 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,760 Why, is that not what you say? You ever said "You're nicked"? 942 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,240 I think I tried that once or twice when I was a younger man. 943 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:29,400 It doesn't matter. No-one's reporting it. 944 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,120 Doesn't matter what it is, we're just getting frozen out. 945 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,480 So try harder. What? 946 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,800 Try harder. Stop pussyfooting around. 947 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,200 You think this is pussyfooting? 948 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,080 I put my paper on the line, myself on the line. 949 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,360 But you're not nailing people. 950 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,960 You're not asking the right questions. 951 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,280 Oh, you're a journalist now? 952 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,880 Why was your Neville email not passed on? 953 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,160 Print the photo on your front page 954 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,160 of Assistant Commissioner John Yates and Rebekah Brooks 955 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,760 sitting together at the Police Bravery Awards. 956 00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:58,960 They sat together? 957 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,680 Print what she said in Parliament, 958 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,000 "We have paid the police for information", 959 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,240 and say that doesnae even go halfway to the truth. 960 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,440 There's a murky swamp out there, Nick. 961 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,000 Top-tier police and the media. 962 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,400 And that needs reporting. 963 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,720 I'm trying to write about all these things. 964 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,160 Unfortunately, it's speculative and libellous. 965 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,240 You need evidence. So do I. 966 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,600 If you want to help, give me something concrete. 967 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,880 All right. I've dug. 968 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,720 The case, the Neville email, the hacking. 969 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,680 That case was given to Specialist Operations. 970 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,080 Terrorist branch? 971 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,720 The boss at the time was a guy called Andy Hayman. 972 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:38,440 I know that name. 973 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,680 Yeah, well, he disappeared. 974 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,320 Retirement in a puff of smoke. 975 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:43,480 And then reappeared... 976 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,840 Er, yeah, writing articles for The Times. 977 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,000 That's why I know the name. Exactly. 978 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,160 The press goes through the police like a stick of rock. 979 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,240 And News International, they're the worst of the lot. 980 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:56,760 It's still speculative. 981 00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,440 Sorry, my friend. I need more. 982 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,320 Aye. 983 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,760 PHONE RINGS 984 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,840 Charlotte. 'Hi.' Tell me some good news. 985 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,320 'It's Max.' 986 00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:01,080 Max. 987 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,840 Fucking hell, you brought him? 988 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,320 Max, we've got them on the rack. 989 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,400 You settle, the whole thing gets covered up again. 990 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,240 You've got them on the rack? With what? 991 00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:10,720 What we need, I can't get. 992 00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:13,320 Stand tall. Be the man who made a difference. 993 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,960 "Be the man"! Do you listen to yourself? 994 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,480 This isn't... Please, listen to my advice here. 995 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,080 You just want your piece of it. 996 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,800 Oh, your backwoods deal? 997 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,440 Oh, I like to think I'm better than that. 998 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,320 No-one is better than money. How much? 999 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,280 Oh, go on! How much? 1000 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:31,440 Fuck off. 1001 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,320 Oh, well. We tried. 1002 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,240 The Murdochs agreed to pay Clifford more than £1 million. 1003 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:45,000 Some to cover his legal costs, 1004 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,840 most in the form of guaranteed income 1005 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,560 for stories he would sell them over the next three years. 1006 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:50,920 This meant it could be presented 1007 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,160 as something other than the payment of damages. 1008 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,080 This meant Charlotte didn't get her cut. 1009 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:56,440 This meant it wasn't news. 1010 00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,640 Nobody was fooled, but it was clever. 1011 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,520 Our biggest gun was spiked. 1012 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:06,960 TV: 'First election debate. 1013 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,720 'Tonight, history in the making, as we are joined by 1014 00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:13,400 'the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg, 1015 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,400 'the Conservative Party leader, David Cameron, 1016 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,240 'and the leader of the Labour Party, Gordon Brown.' 1017 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:21,200 AUDIENCE APPLAUDING 1018 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,920 NICK: 'The truth is, power and secrecy walk hand in hand. 1019 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:30,560 'Power enjoys secrecy because it increases its scope. 1020 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,800 'Power generates secrecy simply because it can. 1021 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,360 'Downing Street, Scotland Yard, 1022 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,760 'they're no different to other powerful organisations. 1023 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,880 'They find secrecy easy, 1024 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,120 'natural and extremely helpful, 1025 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,560 'regardless of whether or not it may cheat the public 1026 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,800 'of information to which they have a profound right. 1027 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,600 'But here's the thing about power and secrecy. 1028 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,240 'If you can expose the secrecy, 1029 00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:01,920 'you might... you might, MIGHT... 1030 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,320 '..break the power.' 1031 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,160 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 123726

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