Original subtitles

I've been doing this for 15 years and I'm tired of it.

I'm just tired of the... Just...

It just feels like it's more than music now at this point.

And just most days I'm like, okay.

But then sometimes I'm just like... It just gets

loud sometimes.

Her reaction to it, you know, really shows that the message came through loud

and clear for her. And it was extremely distressing. She was the Internet's

villain. And everyone decided to, you know, gang up on that.

Everyone was posting hashtag Taylor Swift is over party, hashtag Taylor

canceled.

When there's this false narrative that everyone believes, how do you respond to

that?

She goes absolutely radio silent.

No one hears from her. No one sees her out in public, which is the antithesis

the tailor that we had come to know. Take a look at this photo.

See, there's speculation that she may be in that suitcase.

Okay. I just don't get it.

We were used to having access to her. She was an ever -present person

in our lives.

She knows at that point that...

the world is kind of getting sick of her, that they've reached saturation

with Taylor Swift.

And she makes an executive decision to kind of withdraw and kind of cut off

access in a way that, you know, wasn't very common for Taylor Swift.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Watching Leigh -Anne Rimes, we see that she has a very unique connection with

her fans. When she is on stage, there's just kind of that unspoken bond.

For Taylor, Leigh -Anne Rimes is the perfect role model to really make

connections with fans.

When Taylor was really young, she went to a Leigh -Anne Rimes concert.

She's at the very front row.

She looked down and I was like, Leanne, did you get my letters? And she goes, I

sure did, Taylor.

And that was the moment where literally it all just clicked for me that if I

could ever make one little kid feel that way or one person feel the way she made

me feel, then it would all be worth it.

You could see her eyes glow talking about it.

That moment, I think, solidified for Taylor how important it is to connect

your fans.

how there is no wall if you don't want there to be. I think that was a really

defining moment for Taylor. Going to her concert and being seen by Leigh -Anne

and being respected and understood and given the time of day, I think planted

that seed of nurturing a fandom and making every single person that she

across feel that exact same way.

MySpace is an awesome new thing. It's an online website where people can really

connect with artists.

Typically I get about 600 emails a day.

I read all the guest book entries. I want to be a part of these people's

I think it's important to keep that personal contact.

That's the most fun thing for me is to hear what people think and all the

different stories of people the first time they heard the song and how it

affected them. I just love all that.

Watching that, you can see...

It was really important to her to connect with people. The stories that

tell, like she mentioned, she does take those to heart.

She had already been building her bond with her fans and building her brand

online, so she knew how to do stuff that the rest of the business

had not figured out yet. I don't know of any Nashville artist that took

my space.

as seriously as Taylor took my space.

Think about an album.

You can make it as personal as good as you possibly can and put everything you

have into it. Think about it every day and every night for the entire process

making it.

And if you put it out and no one buys it, then you can't control that.

The fans are the only reason I haven't been successful.

That's why I'm always making them.

When I saw that she was hand delivering Christmas presents to fans, it didn't

surprise me. These weren't generic gifts.

She took the time to go on their social media profiles and find out what they

were into, what they were interested in.

She has always been a lover of people. The people have never let her down.

So why would you change?

Why would you stop?

She took her time and she stepped out of the limelight a little. She had to turn

off her comments, which eventually led to her deleting her entire Instagram

because it was flooded with bullying, harassment, snakes.

She then returns, not with the kind of typical social media presence

that her fans are used to.

I think the whole world should still win that first.

A snake came to her Instagram.

And we all knew something was coming, but we couldn't figure out what it was.

And collectively as a fandom, I think we all held our breath.

I absolutely loved the force with which Taylor came back.

She took her narrative, she rewrote it, took that motif of a snake that was used

so violently against her and made it into an entire era. Like, wow.

It's going to go down in history as one of the biggest moments in pop culture

because to be silent, unseen for years and then drop that music video.

Don't like your little games.

Don't like your tilted stage. The role you made me

play. She is visually showing us the place where the

internet left her after this incident. In the ground. And here she is, a

rising out of the ground, saying, no, I don't like your games.

The idea of look what you made me do.

She's telling all the haters and everyone who's been critiquing her, you

you made me change this. This is your fault. She is not, you know, playing the

victim. She is not playing the wallflower. She is saying you all were

and nasty to me. This is how I'm reacting. You know, she's reclaiming her

narrative. She's reclaiming her reputation.

I'm sorry, the old Taylor can't come to the phone right now.

Why?

Oh, because she's dead.

The world was changed when Taylor said, I'm sorry, Taylor can't come to the

phone right now. So iconic.

What's with that bitch? Don't call me that.

Y 'all, oh, stop acting like you're all nice. You are so fake.

Oh, there she goes, playing the victim again.

So by the end, basically, she's also sort of, you know, making fun of

She has all of her old selves. And she's basically saying, you know, you're so

pathetic, you know, before anyone else can criticize her, she's criticizing

herself, which was a really bold move.

I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative.

Well, you know what, if that's how you're going to think of it, I'm going

there first.

I'm going to be the one that's mocking myself before you can mock me.

Well, everything reaches saturation, doesn't it? I mean, a brand, chocolates,

coffee, whatever we consume.

So a clever brand is constantly replenishing or reinventing itself.

And it's the same with an artist, because otherwise you get stuck with the

audience. So in a way, you're heading towards a cliff. It can be like falling

off a cliff edge. It can happen overnight.

Over the years, I've worked with some of the greatest names in entertainment,

including Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie for 40 years,

Michael Jackson, Amy Winehouse, Spice Girls, Sex Pistols. I mean, a lot.

You've got to be brave and you've got to take the risk and keep rewriting the

story because fans grow up.

and fans move on to other things. So you want to be reinventing yourself. It's a

constant, you need that momentum, perpetual momentum.

Taylor's really fantastic the way she does that.

There was a bit of a bait and switch that happened with this album when we

out Look What You Made Me Do, and we're like, guys, this album's going to be one

thing. And when the album came out, it's legitimately an album about finding

love throughout all the noise. If you can find something real in spite of a

reputation. then isn't that what matters the most to you?

I think when you watch the footage of Taylor, she's very much in this big

mode where she's kind of relatable and protective and strong. And I think

what people really appreciate her for.

Reputation is kind of a weird album for me because it's such a shift

stylistically. It was her first album about being...

in a deep, long -term relationship. It was about the start of her relationship

with Joe Allen.

Where before she could write a song about somebody that she had broken up

and not worry about their reaction.

Now she's writing a song about the most intimate moments of her life because

that's what she's always written about.

The person that she's writing about is still going to want to be around her at

the end of the day.

She meets this person and it's like, oh, you're meeting me at the worst, lowest

place that I've been in public perception.

And you still like me? Oh, that must mean you really like me.

What I love about this song, she's singing about a love that she could

into.

It's a calm love. It's a safe love.

It's a love despite the world hating me. I don't have to listen to all of you

because I have this. And this is, you know, bringing me so much love and joy.

Here comes daddy with the baby home from the hospital and her nanny.

They said it would never happen.

I watched that video so many different times. Her parents arriving home with

Taylor right around Christmas time, it kind of reminded me of the imagination

and fairy tale and the happily ever after.

I think that's something that was instilled in her from her parents and

family.

I was always into all the stories and fairy tales and things like that when I

was little. And, you know, every single night before I would go to bed, I would

ask myself, can you tell me a story?

And I wouldn't settle for anything I'd heard before. So they made up stories.

I mean, at the end of the day, as soon as it collapsed on the couch, like, I

can't anymore.

Above anything else, she romanticizes life in the best way.

I read at one point that she would always fast forward through the villain

of her fairy tales because she just knows the happy spots and the happy

And I think that really stems from the fairy tales that she grew up on.

When I had a favorite song when I was growing up, I would always wonder who it

was written about.

Also, when people wrote songs with people's names in them, that kind of

story with the character.

And identify the character.

Then it becomes a fairy tale. Then it becomes a story.

And it's real.

And in the real world, the bad guy can be charming and endearing and funny.

You can't tell until it all hits you. And that's what I write songs about a

The differences between fairy tales and reality. There's so many. When we're

little, we're taught that seeing that bad guy is very obvious. But in real

it's not that way at all.

You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dog, blob.

Donald Trump can be heard making some extremely crude comments about himself

women. I have tremendous respect for women. Have you ever done those things?

And women have respect for me. And I will tell you, no, I have not.

Women will be silent no more.

Stories flooded social media and painted a picture of just how many people

endure sexual abuse and harassment every day.

In Denver today, Taylor Swift testified that a former radio host groped her

while they were posing for a photo.

He lost his job and sued the pop star. She countersued.

They got to hear from Taylor Swift. They knew that within a couple hours of this

happening, she had told her mother. She was very adamant about what happened.

She was appropriately angry.

In 2017, which is the same year the allegations against Harvey Weinstein are

exposed for the first time in the press, Taylor Swift takes an ex -radio DJ

called David Mueller to court.

And she alleges that in 2013, he put his hand up her skirt and sexually

assaulted her during a photo meet and greet. He sues her for defamation and

counter sues him for sexual assault. And the whole thing plays out in court in

public. One of the questions she's asked is, There's a photo of you allegedly

being assaulted by this man. Why isn't the front of your skirt wrinkled? And

then she goes, because my ass is not on the front of my skirt.

The jury sided with the pop star. She had been assaulted, and in keeping with

her wishes, Mr Muller was ordered to pay a dollar in damages.

It gives courage and inspiration to all people, not just women, but to all

people to have the courage to draw lines.

The interesting thing about the MeToo court case is I get the sense that maybe

part of her just snapped and said, you know what, actually, I'm not going to

stand for this anymore.

Time magazine puts her on the cover with other whistleblowers, including Ashley

Judd, who is one of Harvey Weinstein's first victims.

Here is a moment where she just wants to make a point that women won't stand for

this kind of treatment.

This day a year ago was the day that...

Ah, the day that the jury sighed in my favor and said that they believed me.

I just wanted to say I'm sorry to anyone who ever wasn't believed because I

don't know what turn my life would have taken if people didn't believe me when I

said that something had happened to me.

And so I guess I just wanted to say that we have so, so, so much further to

go. And I'm so grateful to you guys for being there for me during what was a

really, really horrible part of my life.

It marks a little bit of a turning point in how open she was willing to be about

politics and the stance that she took on issues.

Because following this, she releases a track called You Need to Calm Down,

is about supporting LGBTQ rights as an ally.

The music video was incredibly glossy, filled with LGBTQ plus celebs, and

was widely seen to be centering Taylor rather than queer people. People wanted

someone to say something serious and meaningful and deep and thoughtful, and

they didn't think that a kind of glossy pop song with a colorful music video cut

the mustard, basically.

I think it shows up this idea that Taylor can't win, even when her

are good.

Around this time that Taylor starts being a bit more of a political animal,

there is a kind of bigger question in the room, right? With Donald Trump in

White House and America being more divided than ever before, is Taylor

talk about Democrat versus Republican?

So Taylor coming up through country and, you know, doing things like performing

the national anthem at sports games really cemented her into this lane of

like a perfect kind of all -American domestic goddess.

There are people who are critical.

And younger people, too, that are critical, that she's not political

that she's too late to the party with her politics, that, you know, she's too

white. Like, they just don't want to give time to a blonde white woman.

Would I make a good politician?

I don't know. I mean, I'm an 18 -year -old girl. It's like I'm not going to

here and go into my political views because that's not what I chose to do. I

chose to do music. But honestly, it's just really good to see women progress.

That's a can statement.

It's tough because you're never going to win an argument when it comes to

religion or politics, period.

And because of things that Taylor can't control, the fact that she's, you know,

young, she's blonde, she's wealthy, she's white, she's American.

You know, Taylor has always walked that tightrope.

If she doesn't speak about politics, she's seen as pandering to the right.

If she does speak about politics, she's seen as being a performative ally by the

left.

And I think what changed is that, first of all, she started getting associated

with far -right causes.

White supremacists have found an interesting person to idolize. Taylor

been named by one friendly group of white supremacists, and they think that,

hey, you know, she's blonde, she's white, and she secretly hates the Jews.

Adolf Hitler quotes were attributed to her and put on pictures of her and went

viral, making it seem like she'd said all these awful things.

And I don't doubt that there would have been some part of her calculation when

it came to speaking out more publicly about politics, where she wanted to

distance herself from this kind of heinous fan group that had somehow

themselves to her.

Thank you so much for this. And I just wanted to make a mention of the fact.

that this award and every single award given out tonight were voted on by the

people. And you know what else is voted on by the people?

It's the midterm elections on November 6th. Get out and vote. I love you guys.

I think that's brave to come out and tell people to vote. But what is harder

to come out as a party political animal and to tell people explicitly to vote

for one person over another.

We are less than three weeks out until the midterms in Tennessee. Senate

candidate Marsha Blackburn is up in the polls. But we know that the one poll

that counts is November 6th. And we're determined to be winning on November

And the early vote starts today. It all really comes to a head with the 2018

midterm elections, where a Republican senator called Marsha Blackburn from

Tennessee is up for reelection.

And this is a senator who has voted against equal pay, against gay rights.

I can't see another commercial and see her disguising

these policies behind the words Tennessee Christian values.

Those aren't Tennessee Christian values.

I live in Tennessee. I am Christian. That's not what we stand for.

I need to do this. I need you to just...

Dad didn't need you to forgive me for doing it because I'm doing it. Watching

the Miss Americana documentary and her tearful conversation with her father

where it is quite clear that she's asking him for forgiveness for what

about to do.

Why do you think Taylor Swift, out of nowhere, decided to get political? This

what I used to love about Taylor Swift is she stayed away from politics. It's

all about music, all about female empowerment.

Yesterday on Instagram, she wrote, I've been reluctant to publicly voice my

political opinions. I feel very differently about that now.

I mean, I think many people are impressed and some are frightened about

that Taylor Swift can send out, you know, one tweet and 35 ,000 people will

register to vote in 12 hours.

Right? It's having that kind of reach.

Let's say that I like Taylor's music about 25 % less now, okay?

All right, this is a big story. Singer Taylor Swift is slamming music executive

Scooter Braun after he acquired the record company that owns her music, Big

Machine Label Group, which released Taylor Swift's first six albums.

Scooter Braun, being a great businessman, said, wait, the Taylor

available for purchase?

Count me in. Which brings us to Scooter Braun.

Here's someone who managed the guy that walked on stage and took my award.

It wasn't about business at that point. It was personal.

Before these meetings, I would literally have about 10 to 15 almost finished

songs because I wanted to prove that I wasn't scared by actors.

Right from the get -go, Taylor directed the session.

We wrote three songs in the first two days that we were together, and two of

those are on the debut album, Taylor Swift.

After we'd written a few songs, Her dad started saying, hey, Rob, look at that.

Here's another 15 that she wrote.

I have tons of these. These are all from way back.

I mean, she's as young as 11 on some of these.

I mean, most of these have never seen the light of day.

So here's 16 songs.

Copyright 2003, the same year we started writing.

None of those are anything you've ever heard.

Anytime I write any song with anybody, it goes in a file just like, in case

someday it becomes a hit, I can go, well, here's what it looked like before,

know, the day we wrote it.

Place in this world.

It was a really strong idea because it was really what her life is. And she

says, I don't know what I want, so don't ask me, because I'm still trying to

figure it out. I'm trying to see through the rain coming down, even though I'm

the only one who feels the way I do.

What's cool about that is, like, every kid feels that way, but millions of kids

were able to relate to that line. You see what I'm saying?

She had a plan, and she wasn't going to go off that plan, and she was not going

to be stopped.

And people were telling her, no, left and right. You're too young.

Let these other songwriters guide you.

She was having none of that. I know there were people that wrote with her

wrote with that said, yeah, I wrote with her. It's like she didn't want to

listen to any of my ideas.

Like, well, yeah, but did you listen to her idea?

That's all you need to do.

Late 2004, I had a regular standing gig at the Bluebird Cafe, and I just

suggested maybe we just do a show at the Bluebird.

What you're trying to do is get all the record labels to come see the show and

give her a recording deal.

All the major label people showed up.

I'm looking at them and seeing all these people.

There's one guy that is really getting it and has his eyes closed.

I hit another thing up, and after the show, he said hi and thought we'd shut

He goes, the good news is that.

Scott Buschetta just came forward and said, I'm starting a new label and I

you to be my first artist.

And who wouldn't want to hear that?

Big Machine was the label that believed in her, supported her, that gave her the

ability.

to do what she wanted to do, which was to write her own songs and sing and

perform her own songs. And it was a big risk for Scott Bechetta to kind of say,

this is the artist that's taking everything on.

Taylor, on behalf of Big Machine Records and our partners, Universal Music Group

Worldwide, we are so proud to present to you this plaque that indicates you have

filled more than 20 million records worldwide.

And they had, by all accounts, a really productive and long and fruitful

relationship up until the point where she left to go to the Republic and Scott

Buschetta ended up selling Big Machine to Scooter Braun.

Taylor Swift says her new record deal gives Swift more control over her own

music.

As far as we know, Republic promised... As part of this new deal, she will own

all her masters, and that was, as we'll see, a really important thing for

Taylor. She wanted to have full control over the songs that she was writing and

making, which she did not get to do with Big Machine.

I knew he would sell my music. I knew he would do that.

I couldn't believe who he sold it to, because we've had endless conversations

about Scooter Braun, and he has 300 million reasons to conveniently forget

conversations.

Scooter Braun.

He's the guy who discovered Justin Bieber. He's responsible for working

people like Ariana Grande. And crucially for this story, he is also the person

who worked with Kanye West during the whole famous saga.

The definition of the toxic male privilege in our industry is people

he's always been nice to me when I'm raising valid concerns about artists and

their right to own their music.

And of course he's nice to you. If you're in this room, you have something

needs.

The fact is that private equity is what enabled this man to think, according to

his own social media post, that he could buy me.

But I'm obviously not going willingly.

I'm watching that and I'm going, oh my goodness, she's handling this perfectly.

It's important for Taylor to get the credit.

that she deserves, especially in a culture where, in many cases, female

are not given the credit that they deserve for the work they put in.

And if there is one thing that people in Nashville know, if you were on the

wrong side of Taylor Swift, you were on the wrong side.

She writes about it on Tumblr, and she says that this is her worst -case

scenario, and she compares...

him taking control of her masters to him controlling a woman, which is quite

like bold and audacious fame, right?

She basically regards Scooter Braun as having had a real hand in the kind of

harassment and bullying that she received at the hands of Kim Kardashian

Kanye West.

Justin Bieber, who is on Scooter Braun's side, understandably says, why are you

saying this? You know your fans are going to bully Scooter. And lo and

they do.

No one sold her music. No one made her sign a bad record deal. Those were the

types of record deals that everyone signed at that time. And Scooter Braun

a very good business decision. End of story.

The decision that Taylor made to turn the fans loose on Scott and Scooter with

only half of the conversation, I was a little disappointed.

Death threats started happening.

People started showing up at people's houses, and this is something that

have been discussed behind the scenes.

When it gets to a place where there's death threats and there's offices being

called and...

people being threatened in the manner that I just think it's got out of hand.

And I think people need to come together and have a conversation because that's

not what this is about. That's not what we got in this industry for. The Taylor

Swift fan army, the Swifties, are really protective of her. And I think that

comes from this relatability that she's cultivated with them, this sense that

she's let them into her inner world and given them in many ways ammunition to go

out and take people on that they perceive to have done her dirty.

But I think the important thing to note is that she didn't really call them out

or tell them to back off.

They're called fans for a reason. It's short for fanatics.

Now, could you re -record?

Oh, yeah.

Might you do that?

Oh, yeah.

That's a plan? Yeah, absolutely.

In order to wrestle back control of the masters, she decides to re -record all

the albums that Scooter Braun now has the master recordings for.

Her re -recording the album is her way of saying, you know, artists need to own

their work. Like, this is their body of work. These are their babies. These are

the things that mean the most to them.

And artists deserve to own that. And artists deserve to be compensated for

work. And artists deserve to, you know, be able to have control over their work,

you know, and be able to, you know, use it in the way they see fit.

Wondering if I'd get there quicker if I was a man.

And I'm so sick of them, so then I'd be a man.

If I was a man, then I'd be the man.

I'd be the man.

With the American Music Awards performance, she's performing the first

her new album.

With a bunch of kids dressed in shirts with the names of all the albums she's

going to re -record, the ones that Scooter has the masters for. And she's

performing a song called The Man, which is basically all about how she would be

treated better if she was a man. And that is widely perceived to be about the

treatment she's endured at the hands of someone like Scooter Braun, who arguably

would probably treat her very differently if she was a male rock star

musician. And I think really it speaks to a kind of...

deeper narrative that was going on in society of the time where people,

especially women, were just fed up of being told to kind of sit down and shut

up.

I started writing in diaries when I was 13.

So these are the four deluxe editions of this album, and each one contains

30 pages of my diary entries from...

My life.

Because, you know, metaphorically, I've been sharing my diaries with you for

years, so I figured why not just do it?

Taylor's so excited.

And, yeah, I think that's sometimes who Taylor is.

She just wants to give to her fans.

August 25, 2003, 13 years of age.

I think I might just live through this year.

Two exclamation points.

I just hope I can keep up.

This year could be fun.

I don't care what people think of me now because I won't let them bring me down.

Watching her there, reading her diary entries, showed how important it was to

her. And she has this deep appreciation for her youth that not many people have.

Having connected with Taylor through my diary, I was like, oh, my God.

I was interested to see if she felt the same way that I did when I was her age.

Like, what was she going through?

I was finally maybe going to get to have some insight into that little girl that

saved me, changed my life.

I didn't usually post online about Taylor except, like, on her birthdays.

I laid everything out on my bed.

Had a laptop propped up and my kitten.

Crawling around. And I had in that pile my demo CD that I had just gotten out

because I wanted to listen to it and panned over it in a very short video.

And I posted it to Instagram.

And I don't know if I just, like, tagged the right hashtag or what.

But the post got swept up into the Instagram Swifty fandom.

People are so interested in the story.

Somebody had found one of my birthday posts for Taylor, and it's the picture

from 2003. I'll post it every year just as a memoriam, wish her a happy birthday

and all of that. And then so many people were interested.

It was all kindness and love and support, and it comforted me. It gave me

the courage to tell a little bit of the story.

The post was shared throughout the fandom. It effectively went viral. And

generally, they were all wanting Taylor to meet me.

So when I got a message on Tumblr, having been in the fandom, you know when

message comes through, it's usually paired with a Secret Sessions

I was at work. My heart dropped. I started crying.

I could not keep it together.

You know, you get there and Taylor has made like a spread of food, cookies and

pizza and whatever, whatever else. She just goes all out. And everybody knows

we're going to get ushered into a living room where we sit down and we listen to

the album that nobody's ever heard.

You could feel it. Like the excitement was just electric.

And then becomes the time of meet and greet.

Sort of walked into this other part of the house and like, there's Taylor.

And she's smiling and she says my name and everything just

dropped away.

And she just wraps me up in the biggest hug.

I didn't know I needed it.

And she doesn't let go.

She holds on until you are ready. When she talks to you, you're the only person

in the room.

And she wants to know everything.

And we joked back and forth. And she said she liked my hair.

And it was like she was a friend.

She, at one point, thanked me.

Thanked me for being there all those years. And I didn't really know I needed

hear that. I mean, I would have been fine never hearing that.

I don't know, it broke me in the best way that she appreciated it.

Grammy. What?

What? We're going to see Taylor Swift.

We're going?

Yes. And where?

In Paris.

Fantastic. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

She announces this genre -busting, world -spanning, epic world tour called

the Eras Tour.

You know, it's a kind of way for her to thank people for sticking with her

through every single phase of her life, through the controversies, through the

scandals. And that was certainly borne out by the fact that people were

absolutely dying to get tickets.

Some Taylor Swift fans may have a Ticketmaster hangover this morning after

trying for hours, and I mean hours.

to buy tickets to her upcoming tour yesterday, and many came up empty

Fans are still talking about Taylor Swift's love split.

Yeah, with Joe Alwyn, they worked together for six years. It does seem to

that they have split.

It's interesting, People magazine, talking about East Source, said that Jo

struggled with Taylor's level of fame and the attention from the public.

There was a video of her that came out of her on the Eris tour singing Lover

she was crying.

It's not a sad song, but it's sad because, I mean, we can only assume

longer with the person you wrote it about.

Yeah.

Like, we see you, we hear you, we love you, and we got you, we'll catch you.

What does she say?

Easy they come, easy they go. I jump from the train, I ride off alone. I

grew up. It's getting so old. Help me hold on to you.

Oh, my God, I could cry. Just this fear that you're a person that cannot.

truly ever hold on to anyone because I'm sure when people look at Taylor Swift

they're like what's Taylor Swift like who who could ever leave Taylor Swift

at the same time like who could ever date Taylor Swift like that yeah that's

that's Taylor Swift that's a lot you know and imagine being her I

think growing up as Taylor Swift must have been awful because think about it

this way She's a teenage girl and she starts making music.

She does go to school, but she doesn't really finish school in the kind of

traditional sense because she's being homeschooled. Even that kind of classic

coming -of -age moment where you move to the big city and get a bunch of new

friends, dating maybe the wrong kind of guy, you know, getting embroiled in

messy love affairs, even that is up for debate on social media. I think it's

enormously difficult to grow up with that kind of scrutiny on you.

I think she really is a kind of bellwether for how we as a society view

because she is in many ways the perfect kind of blank space, right? She's, you

know, conventionally pretty, attractive, white, American. She is a standing for

so many of the things that we are worried about, that we're concerned

society, because she is that kind of perfect Miss American girl. And, you

when you become a symbol of a much greater whole.

America itself, you are always going to have people who are going to project a

lot of things onto you.

You

know, a

mirror ball is the sparkly thing in the room that everyone looks at and goes,

ooh, an eye. but like it's broken it's shattered it's in pieces

and it still shines and it still reflects back what you want

to see and I think that's just the most beautiful way to describe the emotion of

feeling like you need to put on a performance for people to like you when

are only whatever people need you to be, that weighs really heavily on your soul

and you kind of lose yourself in the process.

You know, there's that old phrase where as heavy as the head that wears the

crown and you kind of get a sense of that in Mirrorball where she's worn this

crown for so long and it's worn down so heavily on her, it's completely just

kind of worn her out.

So, you know, I've been writing songs and playing shows since I was about 12

years old. And so I kind of developed as a human being a coping mechanism.

Of going through something or feeling extreme emotions, writing songs that

include those emotions, and then playing them for you and going, have you guys

ever felt this way too, or is it just me?

And then when you do that, or you sing along

to the songs, it makes me feel like I'm not alone.

So that is the whole process I go through.

Often you'll find that great artists, there's an insecurity.

I mean, this need to be loved.

And the only moment they feel happy is when they get the applause from a crowd.

I mean, I'm not going to be a psychiatrist here, but then that need to

and feel warmth back from an audience.

Plenty of artists will tell you that. It's that moment on stage and the energy

they get from an audience.

So to keep connected with the fans is also...

gives you security and gives you strength.

Taylor has notoriously loyal fans.

And I think the heiress tour, you know, underlined that with like a big, you

know, fat red pen.

They were there to support her as much as she was putting on a show for them.

They were there to make her feel supported and feel validated.

If an alien came down and watched the Ares tour, they would think Taylor

a cult leader.

And good for her.

The connection with the fans was something I had hardly ever seen before.

way beyond just being music, and it did almost have an element of spirituality

to it.

Church gives you built -in community.

Taylor Swift's music and fandom gives you built -in community.

Absolutely. Take me to church, Mama.

Taylor is Jesus.

Quote.

Who is going to give you that guidance of how you should be living your life?

And Taylor Swift was that for millions and millions of people.

It became the trademark of the Ears tour that you would

show up with.

a bunch of friendship bracelets to trade with people. You would make them with

the song lyrics or with song names.

And the friendship bracelets are an excuse to go up to someone that you've

met before and find that commonality and be like, hey, this is for you.

She's saying that all of us are on our own individual path, but it doesn't have

to be a lonely experience. You can find other people and enrich your life with

these other people.

You can look on the era's tour as being the ultimate kind of rebuttal to all

those people who said that famous, the scandal would end her career and that

was irrelevant.

There is no greater kind of clap back for a woman, I think, than commercial

success, particularly in the music industry, which continues to be so

and controlled by men.

You know, Taylor Swift is something America can agree on, particularly after

started dating one of the biggest football players in America.

Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift are engaged, and the world wants your

sir. Well, I wish him a lot of love.

Suddenly, the girl who was in the bleachers is very much the top

It's undeniable that the, like, cross -marketing with the two of them is

unbelievable.

I don't know how you top the heiress tour as far as being a billionaire. I

know how you top that. I hope what comes next for Taylor is that she has found

her person and that she gets to experience the things that most people

experience and that some people just give the girl a break for once.

Ultimately, she's created a safe place for millions of women around the world.

True feminism doesn't always have to look like what you think it's going to

like. It can look like wearing a dress and boots, but also standing up to the

men in the room.

I think she says to young women that you musta, which I think is sadly still a

message that still needs to be said today.

You're on your own, kid.

As she's performing, she's smiling and she's laughing. She's saying, you're on

your own, kid, but that's okay.

You're on your own, kid.

You can face it.

You're on your own, kid.

Well, it was the first commitment ceremony earlier tonight and the experts

weren't messing about. New Maths UK stream it so far now or watch as it

continues tomorrow at 9 on E4.

Film 4 tonight, the right song at the right time could change everything for

dreamer. Little Yacht E, Method Man and Rhapsody all feature in drama on the

come up at 11 .40.

Next here, the latest Gogglebox.