Original subtitles

- Farrah Abraham. - Stand by.

Mark.

When I look at-- at the end of my life,

the only thing I would ever regret

would be I just followed along. I just did what everyone did.

Farrah Abraham is kind of a complex character.

She is a former reality star.

And if that's a bitchy comment,

you should probably hold it back.

To love Farrah is to know Farrah,

and most of y'all don't love her,

so you don't really know her and, uh, give her a chance.

No, I don't have respect for her in the way

that she made a sex tape, yes, and she...

I mean, she made one.

You know, seeing her as a young girl

have tremendous stressors

in her home environment, and she was acting out.

And then you guys can go eat [bleep].

- I'll just talk about it. - All right, I gotta go.

When Farrah's sex tape was "leaked," it was a big deal.

Today on "Dr. Phil"...

Why--Why did you make the tape?

For me to be happy for myself and my own privacy.

Farrah Abraham, who was the Teen Mom,

came out in the era of "I'm going to go now to Vivid,"

meet with Steve, and make a deal.

Who goes to a porn star

and makes their own benefit tape?

Trauma is a huge factor for a lot of women

who have had sex tapes released.

I don't know if fame was what she needed,

but it--it certainly had an effect on her.

The animal that reality TV made is my daughter.

I ask myself sometimes every day,

why did my sex tape happen?

- How does it feel? - Feels good.

Okay.

I'm Farrah Abraham,

and many of you might know me

from, um, a franchise I was a part of--

"16 and Pregnant" and "Teen Mom."

Going into the first episode of "16 and Pregnant,"

what did I expect it to be like?

I envisioned, like, everything working out.

Farrah was one of the girls.

She was one of the original group of "16 and Pregnant."

"16 and Pregnant" premiered in 2009,

and that show ended up becoming this wildly popular hit for MTV.

It was supposed to show

the difficulties that teenage mothers face in their lives.

The thing that made Farrah kind of iconic

on her season of "16 and Pregnant"

was that she was a cheerleader.

So, there's the image of this high school girl

walking around school in her cheerleading outfit

with this little bump.

So, yes.

I didn't stick to the plan of waiting till marriage,

I'll tell you that.

Growing up in Iowa...

I was really ingrained, like,

"Wait till you're married before you have sex."

We went to church,

and Christianity was pretty much in our life.

My parents in public school, when there were sex ed days,

they would take me out of sex education.

Oh, what you want to know about is sexual intercourse.

Well, that happens like this.

They did not want me to hear about that or be around that.

It's like sex is bad. I was shamed for having sex.

Shame, shame, shame all the time on that.

I was taught about sex, probably learning

through the wrong ways of, like,

boys and girls in my Catholic school,

and I was really the late bloomer in my classes.

So, when it came to dating boys,

I was probably the last one, too.

I met my daughter's father while I'm in high school.

By all means, I used to claim,

like, that was the love of my life.

Like, I might get overwhelmed with emotion,

but to be honest with you,

I didn't even know what love was then.

I definitely, um... was at cheer camp,

and, like, only one drop of blood hit the--

I know it doesn't sound-- This is too much information.

My six-pack is changing on my body.

Like, there's definitely, like, some weird "V" that's happening.

I'm, like, worried. So, yeah, I went--

I had my, uh, friend from school.

She took me to Planned Parenthood,

and I found out that I was pregnant

even though I was religiously

taking birth control from Planned Parenthood.

And so I tell my mom what's real, what's happening.

I've been a good girl. I've been good girl central.

But you know what?

Being good girl central didn't make the perfect outcome,

and I didn't get the relationship I wanted.

He died, so...

So, perfect and good girl doesn't work.

The father of her daughter died while she was pregnant.

I think she was, like, just about to give birth.

Derek got in a car accident, passed away.

It was like, two months before Sophia was born.

It was a weekend after Christmas, so it's pretty hard.

We talked about... like, moving

or going and living with his dad in Kansas City.

It's just, like, teenagers who come together

out of really hurt families

and just wanna move forward, and, like,

life's gonna be great for us.

I'm trying to graduate out of high school early.

I'm trying to get more college credits

before I have my child.

I don't know what I'm gonna look like being a mom.

Like, I don't know, but I'm doing that.

You know, just like, when she had Sophia,

everything had to be filmed.

We had, uh, attorneys from MTV, our attorney,

attorney from the hospital, the film crew there.

I gotta get to this mindset.

Don't think about anything else except just kind of pushing.

I was, like, lost.

But I just thought, like, everything's gonna work out.

I would just tell myself this.

Everything's gonna work out.

Okay? And that's what I thought, and it never happened.

You watched the four of us become moms

on "16 and Pregnant."

But giving birth is only the beginning.

And our stories continue now on "Teen Mom."

"Teen Mom" was obviously shot

during one of the most stressful times in Farrah's life.

She gave birth. She became a new mom.

Like, the level of stress is enormous.

And to top it off, she's having these altercations with her mom.

Debra has been pretty strong,

um, and I'm--well,

you know, I'm trying to be fair to Debra, but, uh...

Debra would get physical on 'em

coup--you know, a couple times. Yep.

Don't talk to me anymore.

I have had enough of your belligerent...

- No, I don't care. - ...antichrist attitude.

Oh. Too bad, because--

- I've had enough! - Um, I'm--

I mean it!

My parents really just didn't know how to parent.

Her mother was arrested by cops.

She had two knives in her hand after hitting Farrah,

making her bleed.

I would definitely say my mom and my dad,

they really were like...

"I'm gonna use Farrah as the ping pong ball,"

"feel bad for me" arguments.

They were getting stimulated by all their negativity

and putting me in the middle of it.

We kind of watched Farrah become a person

shaped on those experiences.

People have no idea the level of intimidation

that I felt within my family.

When I first started television,

I was in, like, serious depression,

like, why don't you go take a walk?

Why don't you just go someplace else?

As time went on, Farrah became kind of a hostile personality.

You being here is not like a happy, fun time.

Farrah was always exceedingly difficult.

It's the nature of mental health issues.

Wow. [bleep] Open up your ears and understand

and listen to what I'm saying.

It's not a cognitive thing. It's an emotional condition.

In some of her choices,

uh, there was a lot of chaos.

There was a lot of chaos in her life.

So, let's watch her suffer, and let's record it.

And then once they started getting kind of famous,

they were on the cover of "In Touch" and "US Weekly,"

and it didn't seem healthy for them.

I mean, by any means,

like, everyone thought, like, I was wealthy.

I had so much on the outside.

Everybody thinks you're a multi-millionaire.

Be realistic. Reality TV-- you don't make too much money.

Kind of seemed like she was maybe having money issues.

It got to this point where

Farrah was wanting to do other stuff.

She was, like, doing kind of skimpier and skimpier modeling.

And then I saw that she was in this magazine,

"Girls and Corpses."

No, no one was around me to prepare me for what fame is.

So, if you wanna be a celebrity,

you wanna be a top Googled female,

you wanna be a [bleep] powerhouse female,

you just let yourself be emotionally dysfunctional.

That's set up for success.

In Hollywood, celebrities are constantly

trying to figure out, "how do I stay relevant?"

So sometimes people get really bad advice

about things that they should do in order

to stay in the minds of people or in order to make headlines.

There was a lot. You know, when you're hating sex,

but sex makes you feel better,

there's a lot of, like, I haven't had sex in so long.

I got a call from Farrah. I go, "Hey, what's up?"

She said, "Hey, Dad."

Yeah, I don't know how I'm gonna say this, so...

She says, "Well, I'm gonna give you a heads up."

I'm just being hon--

like, I don't know what's gonna come out of my mouth, but...

"I did a--I did a sex tape."

I ask myself sometimes every day,

why did my sex tape happen?

It's just blown up into something

that I could have never planned for.

- Sure. - Great, so...

Are you comfortable talking about it?

I am.

I was trying to figure out celebrity.

When I was in a very vulnerable state,

I decided to let a manager start...

Yeah. All these managers and agents--

they love to just make money off of other people.

She was so manipulative and so good at taking advantage

of a vulnerable, young, weak, broken, depressed single mom,

like, all the things that I was

and wanting to act like she could become my mom

because my mom was really not present.

I didn't know that she was a failed porn star.

Gina Rodriguez is the person that got

my daughter involved in the adult industry, I believe.

People started telling me that,

"There's a girl that's selling us stories.

She's the female K.B.

You gotta meet her. Her name is Gina Rodriguez."

I'm like, I don't think I know this woman.

She went by a name called "Demi Delia."

That was her porn name.

Gina Rodriguez is a person that I have a storied past with.

Oh, God. I'm trying to be so diplomatic.

It's so hard.

So, Gina gets her fingers

into these little stories and these people.

Her job is to turn 15 minutes into 20 minutes as well.

She's going for people who are down and out,

don't have a lot of options,

have a little bit of notoriety to them

that she can do something with.

I don't know why it was so funny and, like, fun and light-hearted

at the time with a manager,

but she said, "You can record it, Farrah,

and, like, if you ever need it

or, like, you're having a downtime, like you have it."

It is very common for agents or managers

to give people really bad advice.

"Well, if you do this sex tape,

or if you do this magazine cover,

or if you take off your clothes for this role,

we'll make a lot of money."

I wasn't feeling good about my body at the time.

I also had, like, body dysmorphia

really bad at that time.

But yeah, I was a sad, sad person

who really just wanted some, like, touch,

human love, feeling worthy.

Like, I have to tell you what this feels like

because some people are not gonna know.

Some people are never gonna be at a trauma center.

Some people are never gonna understand

what it's like to just be like, I want, like,

I want relief from my life.

Can I do it in a guilt-free way?

And, like, I can't have any real relationships.

It's really hard being a celebrity and dating.

There's guilt around sex.

So my guilt-free choice to have sex

was with a porn star because they consent to having sex.

That's what they do every day.

So, it's not bad that I'm having sex with a porn star.

Yeah, I can just call a porn star

and [bleep] this person and, like, move on with my life.

James Deen was a porn star.

He was like the hot guy in porn for girls because he wasn't like

the typical big, like, beefy, muscly porn star.

He was just like a guy next door.

He had a lot of success from, like,

maybe the mid-2000s up until 2015,

when it was alleged that he had sexually assaulted

many women in the industry.

But he was huge at the time.

So, I'm in Austin, Texas, working for a tech company.

About 9:00, I take a break.

I get a call from Farrah.

She says, "Well, there's this lady. She's my manager.

Gina Rodriguez is gonna be calling you."

I go, "Oh, really? You got a manager?" That was new.

She said, "Well, I'm gonna give you a heads up.

I did a--I did a sex tape."

I go, "Really? Okay."

So, I go, "Farrah, you know, I'm here for you. Um...

To be honest, I'm surprised, a little shocked,

uh, but I appreciate you calling me

and giving me heads up.

I love ya."

Honestly, I was in disgust.

The less I asked, the better I would feel.

I don't know what days they filmed.

I don't know anything.

You know, I didn't even know if she was dating him or what.

I mean, Farrah kept that all away from us.

I'm sure it was TMZ. They put it out there first

that Farrah, like, had a sex tape,

and it was gonna be leaked,

and then they were kind of following her.

How you doing, Farrah?

Hey.

I look, too--like, when you don't know something,

like, when you're lost, and you're like,

who is a guru in this to help me deal

with my screwed up, messed up problem?

And there's only, like, one person or one entity

that knew how to handle a "celebrity" and sex,

and that was Vivid Entertainment.

TMZ did report that her father

definitely had been negotiating with her.

So, Gina calls me, introduces herself, blah, blah.

"You know, this is so exciting."

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

"We're gonna arrange for you guys

to come out this weekend,

and, uh, Farrah will tell you all about it."

And by the way, we're gonna all make a lot of money.

That's when I met, uh,

Steve Hirsch from Vivid Entertainment,

sitting in his two chairs in front of his desk

looking at all his stuff.

And I go, "Steve, you have family.

How would you feel if your daughter was doing this?"

He didn't answer me.

He just said, "It's just business, Mike."

Right.

So, initially, when the Farrah Abraham thing happened,

my name kept popping up all over the place

as the celebrity sex tape guy,

but also the guy who does publicity and knows everybody,

you know, from ABC News to TMZ.

Steve Hirsch and Gina Rodriguez--

they recommended that I work with Farrah.

And when I told her what my fee was monthly,

she didn't really bat an eyelash.

I said, "But listen, you have to do what I tell you to do.

There is money out there,

and people will pay you for interviews,

but you have to be smart.

Just remember, the pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered."

And she's like, "Ooh, I like that."

I said, "Don't call anybody.

Everybody's talking about this tape.

Let's just make this happen the way that I do it."

And then I'm reading about a half-hour later this interview

that she gave at TMZ that I know they would have paid her

thousands of dollars for.

And I call her up. I go, "What the hell are you doing?

I told you not to talk to anyone."

"Oh, K.B., I didn't realize you--

that I couldn't talk to TMZ."

I'm like, what was wrong with you?

Then we had a giant fight on the phone, hung up on her.

I said, "I can't work with you."

So after what a failed manager tried to do

to me after, like, swindling me along,

it was just like, "Oh, I can help fix problems."

Lure me in. "Oh, my God, I can make something out of this,

get money, and when she brought up,

"I know how to spin this," and she wanted money for it,

I knew that it was all set up against me.

You know, "If you cross us unduly,

we have no need to be around you."

Farrah says Gina's gone.

I don't need anyone else making deals for me.

I can make them myself.

I did meet directly with Steve Hirsch.

Uh, so, Farrah, how did the meeting go?

Farrah initially was saying

that James Deen was her boyfriend.

There were these paparazzi shots

of Farrah and James Deen holding hands

and looking like a couple.

But there was this issue.

TMZ caught up with James Deen,

and they were like, "Oh, are you Farrah's boyfriend?"

And he was like, "No."

They were going to pass it off as, like, a sex tape.

And then people asked me, and I have this problem

where I can't really lie.

So, I was like, "We're making a porno."

- Hold up, hold up. - Wait a second.

- Wait, hold up. - It's like, wait a second.

Well, because TMZ was following them so heavily,

like, actually filming them walking around L.A.

Sometimes we tell ourselves things

as a form of self-preservation

that we just have to believe,

and maybe Farrah is doing that,

and maybe she's fooling herself,

but I don't think she's fooling anyone else.

If you told me that you had planned

to make this and distribute it from the very beginning,

then that would be a lie. - That would be a lie.

No. Um...

I think...

Okay. I don't... like...

Just being honest.

I don't think that has anything to do with, like, legalities

about being honest about my own thing.

I'm being honest in the point of, um...

Yeah, hold on. I should probably watch what--

I'm like, uh-oh, 'cause I really did sign contracts, right?

Um...

Uh, one moment while I

make sure I'm not doing anything wrong.

It's like, can I say it quietly to myself before I just talk?

Yeah, I mean...

Or I don't even really know how I would do that.

So sorry. I don't know.

I don't know what I'm doing before I'm doing it. Uh-oh.

I'm gonna get a drink.

She went on "Dr. Phil" with her parents.

She really kind of had a cockamamie story

about how this got released.

So, um, there--there is a tape?

There was my own video that has been talked about

by the wrong people, and now my attorney

is dealing with those legal issues.

She was saying that, you know,

she had hired a crew to make this sex tape

because she wanted to celebrate her body

and remember it at this point when she looked super hot.

Dr. Phil was-- had a field day with her.

- How did it all get out there? - It was--

They just-- somebody ratted you out?

Um, yes. Um--

You hired a porn star to do that. You're in Hollywood.

Did you really think this would be under the radar?

Yeah. When you're not ready to speak about things,

that happens a lot in celebrity land.

I'm not ready to speak upon something,

"But we wanna get you on this show right away.

We wanna get you talking about it."

This is a sex tape, though, right?

I don't even look at it like that.

It is my own personal thing.

Who goes to a porn star

and makes their own benefit tape?

What was the benefit? Masturbation?

You could make a sex tape with anybody to do that.

What made you wanna do it with James Deen instead

of like an average Joe, like a TMZ cameraman?

Well, this is--Okay.

Um, well, this is what I was told,

you know, it's better to-- for my sake, for my privacy,

to find the best and professional people.

There was no way in hell anybody was ever gonna

believe that this girl

would link up with the biggest male porn star, James Deen.

It's like it's really hard and challenging for someone

with my mental capacity,

with the tools that I've been born with.

So, what you're seeing is, like...

a jumbled up mess.

Uh, so I'm wondering, like,

if it was always like an exclusive thing with Vivid

or if, like, she did make it and then was shopping it around.

I-I have no idea.

I think what you saw me do is...

You know what?

[bleep] you all. You're not getting money off me.

I'm giving this to someone who knows what to do with it.

And so this tape is called "Backdoor Teen Mom,"

which is, uh... it's about anal sex.

So, because of her association with "Teen Mom"

and because of putting "Teen" in the title,

there was this sort of, like, barely legal

kind of sheen to this sex tape.

That was, like, supposed to be part of the appeal.

I remember seeing people talk about her...

There is a filthy, dumb whore who's gonna blow the lid.

...as a commodity,

and it, uh, didn't feel great.

We do our celebrity sex tapes.

We're always looking for the newest, hottest thing.

I-I worried about her, but she, at that point,

was, um, sort of self-righteous about it.

I have to say I can't hate Vivid,

but I appreciate it because I guess

it would have been even stupider of me to lose all my rights

to just have, like, hate towards everyone where

that was very easy at the time.

In the lead-up to the release of "Backdoor Teen Mom,"

Vivid released a trailer.

It was basically just like a mini version

of "Backdoor Teen Mom" that showed a lot, a lot, like...

...hardcore porn. It was them them having sex.

Everyone was writing about it. Everyone was talking about it.

It was very scandalous. It was huge on Twitter.

14 million views in the first 10 days

that clip was up.

The presales actually broke the record

From "Kim K, Superstar."

There is no bottom of the barrel.

You keep going lower. You keep getting paid more.

She was, like, really trashed in the media.

It's the most idiotically, transparent path to celebrity.

They like to build you up and break you down.

We've seen that happen to so many celebrities.

Fame, attention can be very gratifying.

It can also be very addicting.

So, my sex life didn't end up

private and respecting my boundaries.

It ended up being a dragged-out mess

of other people wanting to guilt me, I guess,

or ruin me or shame me.

I consider the death of the celebrity sex tape

happened when Farrah Abraham put out her product.

Farrah's was when that model was sort of, like, destroyed.

The paparazzi were following Farrah around L.A.,

following her, like, going into Vivid.

I think it was all part of the, like,

"leaked" story that was going around.

Like, they would call TMZ and be like, "Oh, hey, look.

Farrah's negotiating with Vivid now

because this tape's about to be released."

So, today's your big release day, right?

- Today's the big day. - The big day.

Let's ask that again. Ask that again.

All right, cut.

"Backdoor Teen Mom" was released on May 7, 2013,

which was a smash hit for Vivid.

You know, I worked for Gawker.

Some of our biggest trafficked posts was

the Farrah Abraham sex tape "Backdoor Teen Mom."

I mean, that got 20 million views.

And every night, without fail,

"Backdoor Teen Mom" would tick up to the top.

It would be number one, like, every single night.

It was even where you go,

it's like run into 7-Eleven and get--getting a cold drink.

"You're Michael! I saw your daughter's ass."

So, I go, "Well, you know, I hope you enjoyed it,"

and I walked out.

I don't agree with the titles, title,

"Backdoor" of something,

but I will say the keywords and the things they used,

I actually admire their business sense

when it comes to selling and marketing something.

Her profile was super heightened when this came out.

Like, it worked. Like, she was being talked about a lot.

She was being written about a lot.

It was wildly successful. She's got a brand-new,

very expensive home that she bought.

The richest Teen Mom of all of 'em because of that tape.

There is a very big lesson in life

that I need to learn, which was business in "celebrity."

I can't even believe I'm a top Googled person.

I can't believe I have, like, a, the, you know, top, like,

the best celebrity sex tape. Never thought about that.

I can't believe I'm a "New York Times"

Best-Selling author.

Never freaking would imagine that.

And I did all of this being depressed and lost.

So, you can only imagine when I'm un-lost now

how freaking good I'm gonna be.

Well, one way that Sarah's story evolved

after this sex tape was

she finally had financial independence from her parents,

so she didn't really have to take their crap anymore,

and she was kind of out on her own.

Debra and I were going through marriage problems,

even though we didn't divorce for years and years.

And then the mother-- her mother, Debra Danielsen,

who had been so adamant about, you know,

no premarital sex and then, you know, no abortion,

and, like, "You have to raise this baby now.

This is your consequence"--

she went and, um, asked Farrah for $10,000,

and so the tables were turned,

and then they were going to her for money,

and they were going to her for help.

Farrah Abraham--and I know she's part of this doc as well--

I consider the death of the celebrity sex tape happened

when Farrah Abraham put out her product.

And the reason why I say that is because it was so well lit

and edited and professional

that you could see that this was bull[bleep].

It just didn't have... the sort of authenticity

that these other, you know, "celebrity sex tapes" had had.

There was professional lighting.

There was professional camera people.

What really sells the sex tape is the fact that

you're not supposed to be seeing this.

When I saw that Pam and Tommy Lee thing

with the choppy download in my office,

I felt, like, ew, this is somebody's private stuff.

I shouldn't be looking at this, and, uh...

Of course not.

You know, when you watch Kim K's and Ray J's sex tape,

like, you're like, oh, they're together.

They loved each other. They were in love.

Farrah's was not that. Farrah's was like,

you know, anal with some guy I just met.

I mean, it didn't even seem like they liked each other.

It didn't even seem like they knew each other, honestly,

whereas, like, Kim Kardashian's sex tape,

you know, created this model.

Farrah's was when that model was sort of, like, destroyed.

The Wizard was revealed behind the curtain.

And people were like, "Okay, this isn't real.

I wanna see something that's real."

Before they saw it, she was still vilified for it.

And then when it became clear that she actually had

some agency in this. Like, she helped produce this thing,

she chose to do it, they still didn't like it.

They still were [bleep] to her about it.

So, I guess, you know, you can't win when you're a woman.

I think when you are in your late teens, early 20s,

you cannot fully understand

the long-term repercussions of having a sex tape come out,

whether you have consented to it or not.

With Farrah, you know,

you gotta realize where she's coming from.

I was actually in shock.

We don't care if someone's mental health is poor.

We don't care if they're

truly the innocent person in a really screwed up situation.

Farrah Abraham has been

a very busy bad girl.

I was surprised that she went into sex work,

but she's exactly the sort of constellation

of phenomenon that will gravitate that direction.

I mean, I remember immersing myself

at adult places, at adult venues.

It really did feel like Farrah was trying to become, like,

a legit adult entertainer.

Okay, I'm not fitting in with my family,

so let me go fit in with another group

so I can feel like I belong, and I think that's, like,

hurt Farrah felt like, let me figure out where

I can belong to another group of people.

Farrah did seem like she was very drawn

to working in the sex industry

in some kind of way.

She did this, like, tour of strip clubs at one point,

She had a mold made of her vagina.

She calls me up. She says,

"Well, what do you think about it?"

I go, "Well, you're already out there.

You might as well make as much money as you can."

Maybe we'll have a Michael sex toy.

No.

I thought it was funny as heck.

So, a bunch of my toys are doing amazing, and now we have

a women's line out as well. - Oh.

Later, when she got into sex work,

things got odd to me.

Her parents were championing her sex work.

Literally, like, would come in with, like, you know,

noisemakers and things to Team--Team Farrah.

My feeling at the time was Debra was trying

to heal her relationship with her daughter.

Nice going. Right here.

Farrah, over that shoulder again.

Now do it over here. There we go. Right there.

Debra described it as a business decision.

You know, "It's $7 billion industry.

Let my daughter have a piece of this industry."

I was definitely shamed for trying to bring in the options

of, like, problem solving, but I got all the money.

- Are you a millionaire now? - I am.

I immersed myself in kind of adult--adult life.

I was blessed to get booked to just show up.

The AVN Awards have been

kind of dubbed the "Oscars of porn."

Co-hosting was one of probably the best nights

that I've ever had.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the best night of the year.

Please welcome "Backdoor Team Mom,"

Farrah Abraham.

I'm gonna be bluntly honest with you.

I don't remember much.

I do, uh...

vividly remember that she got booed.

What Kelly just said was

sex is truly the universal language.

Because you shouldn't mix, like,

your antidepressants with alcohol.

So... yeah, I was there to some capacity,

but I didn't...

I didn't want to be there.

It seemed like she'd walked in on territory

that wasn't hers.

Then where is the space for Farrah Abraham?

But I think also what's sad about it is that that's how far

her villainous reputation went, all the way to the AVN Awards,

where her even having this very successful sex tape

still got her booed,

and I wonder what that does to the psyche.

I mean, what do you feel when you're up there?

She clearly felt like that was the right avenue for her,

but I don't think it was.

I was not fitting in.

Like, where can I have people who understand?

So, let me go fit in with another group

so I can feel like I belong.

When I say the adult industry or porn stars,

is that space? No.

Farrah was not, you know,

welcome with open arms into the sex industry.

I think that she's been overglorified to certain extents

'cause I just think it's a gimmick.

What is your favorite set experience

that you've ever had?

Um, I haven't had a set experience,

so that's funny.

I just feel like it's-- it's a lie.

Just be honest with it.

If you wanna be sexual, be sexual.

If you don't, don't.

If someone really leaked your stuff, be honest with it

and then say afterwards, "Hey, it was leaked,

but I decided to capitalize off it 'cause it was gonna be

out there anyways, and this is what I chose to do

and was right for me at the time."

I will say this. I don't have any porn star friends today,

so I guess they don't understand me.

Celebrities put out these tapes.

They produce these tapes,

and then they act like, "Oh, it's shameful and stolen,

and I'm so upset by it."

But here I'm gonna get more popularity and fame

and get more following and everything

and then leave.

But it's, like, work that we do all the time.

She didn't come into the industry.

She made a sex tape.

But at least she's proud of it, I guess.

Is she?

You made the server crash.

I think that's a proud moment for Vivid.

- Really? - And I'm--

you know, I'm just happy to be here.

Hopefully, my body looks good.

I have control over my body. I have control over my things.

I'm hoping to just make better choices.

I think that's for sure. We can all agree on that.

I think sometimes when you're in your 20s,

you act out of spite, though, and revenge.

I still wonder sometimes, like,

was that the best way to handle my resentment?

You make your choices. Live with them.

I know I'm living with my choices.

You know, there are people who think that sex work

and adult entertainment is exploitative,

but there are also people who think

that reality television is exploitative.

You know what? I am not--

I am not going to let you [bleep] get off track.

She wasn't in charge of the way that she was portrayed.

The animal that reality TV made is my daughter.

This is some trailer park trash.

- No. - No!

You know what? [bleep] Let's compare.

I haven't been happy for over 14 years.

I know it's, like, crazy.

Like, I couldn't get out of depression.

I wanted to kill myself. Like, there's...

There's no hiding that I've had struggles of, like...

all that stuff.

So...

Sorry, just overwhelmed. Like...

Farrah was on my show, season four

of VH1 "Couples Therapy with Dr. Jenn."

She is someone who has had an enormous amount of trauma.

She's a survivor.

We did a pretty stunning session

with her mom

where Farrah was really asking for compassion.

I'm trying to help you have empathy for Farrah.

And if that's not good enough-- I do feel empathy for Farrah.

- Then show her. - At some point in the session

with her mom in the room, I just looked at Farrah,

and I said, "You need to grieve the loss

of the mom that you hoped to have."

Generationally, like, no one cared about mental health care.

And I've tried to show love and support

for, like, my parents because I know that

that's not what they had in their generation.

That hurts me deeply,

but I also see that they don't want it as bad as I do,

and that's why I don't talk to anyone

in my family at this time with love.

The last time I talked to her, I told her that I just

want her to be happy and I want her to be safe.

No matter how bad it hurt,

my job, being her father, was to be there.

Uh, uh...

to this day, it's unconv-- unconditional love.

I make it a safe place in my home

so that my daughter can re-parent herself.

Love you, honey.

Farrah has always given Sophia opportunities.

She's just a great mom.

Like, I have evolved so much this year with communicating

and having a better relationship as a mother with my teenager.

So, yeah, I'm not looking to repeat anything

in my teenage years with my daughter,

especially teen pregnancy.

So, when I look back, do I think any of the things

that I did beyond this point is great?

Probably not, and that's the truth.

I just have to admit where I've done wrong

to myself along my journey.

I'm doing on a 12-step program for my relationships right now.

The fact that she's taking care of herself and getting--I mean,

it really makes me feel good, I gotta tell you,

because with all the stuff,

you know, once the stuff settles down,

all those features that she has had for all these years,

if that settles,

there's a really substantial person underneath.

This is the Farrah that's, like, in control of herself,

and she's not being exploited by anybody else.

You know, I let that go. Like, if I did think like,

oh, my God, I need fame to feel good,

I really let that go.

What I've learned at 30-some-years-old

that it was all up to me to do the personal work.

Like, it's a long journey.

It's a long [bleep] journey right now.

I needed self-compassion.

I needed help with my self-esteem,

and I needed to do the work.

And I'm so grateful that I did, otherwise I couldn't

even be here for this interview, to be honest, so I'm grateful.

I would have never in a million years

thought she would do a tape,

but I understand how she got there.

She went from one traumatic relationship to another.

Mimi was at a low place in her life when she met Nikko.

The tape broke the internet.

It was the shower rod...

that grabbed a lot of people's attention.

Oh, the shower rod.

- Shower rod. - Shower rod.

It took the sex tape to a comedic place

that nobody really intended.

People wanna say, "Oh, she makes bad decisions in relationships."

Who the [bleep] doesn't?

Just hers is on television for us to criticize.

- Hey, let's talk about it. - Yeah...

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You just get shot after shot.

Okay.