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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,960 COMPUTER CHIMES, WHIRRING 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,160 WHIRRING 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:13,960 'As a journalist, 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,960 'you are consumed by two questions constantly - 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,480 'how to tell a story, 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,960 'but, perhaps more crucially, WHY to tell a story. 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,800 'Imagine a country. 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,000 'Nice weather. Let's give it nice weather.' 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,960 WIND GUSTS 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,800 'Nice weather for England, anyway. 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,960 'Imagine the people in this country 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,960 'believe they are living in a democracy, 13 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,960 'believe in their own freedom. 14 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,960 'But they are being abused 15 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,960 'by a power so everyday they don't know to look for it. 16 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,960 'A treacherous combination of press, the police and politicians 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,800 'that hide in plain sight. 18 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,800 'Imagine a country where that concealment was... 19 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,960 'Imagine a country where... 20 00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:59,960 'where the news organisations...' 21 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:01,640 Shit! CAR HORN HONKS 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:02,960 Imagine it all deleted. 23 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,480 HE SIGHS Florid nonsense. 24 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:09,960 'My name is Nick Davies. 25 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:11,960 'I am a journalist, 26 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:13,480 'and this is a story 27 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,960 'that ends in seven major police investigations, 28 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,640 'nearly 40 convictions, 29 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,960 'and some of the most powerful people in this country 30 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:22,320 'being brought to their knees.' 31 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:24,960 Oh, no. It's too grand, too grand, too grand. 32 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,320 HE CLEARS THROAT 'My name is Nick Davies. 33 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:33,960 'I'm a journalist.' 34 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:35,960 Morning. I'll just check in. 35 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:37,960 'This all started with Stuart Kuttner.' 36 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:38,960 Hello. 37 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:40,960 Mm, no. 38 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:43,960 HE CLICKS TONGUE 39 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:50,320 'This is the most troubling story I've ever written. 40 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,960 'A story about the abuse of power and the concealment of truth.' 41 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,960 Hi. Hi. Nick Davies for the Today programme. 42 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,000 I'm late. 43 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,960 British journalism is "sloppy and morally bankrupt". 44 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,800 That is the claim of the journalist Nick Davies, 45 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,160 who's written a book that shows how often newspapers use illegal methods 46 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,960 for getting their stories. 47 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,800 It's called Flat Earth News, and Nick Davies joins us now. 48 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:23,960 Good morning. Hi. 49 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,480 You say "sloppy" because newspapers use press releases, 50 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,960 rather than getting their own stories, 51 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,960 and "morally bankrupt" because of the illegality involved. 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,960 Really, the root that binds together all the different themes 53 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,960 is that the logic of journalism 54 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,960 has been overwhelmed by the logic of commercialism. 55 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,800 Journalists no longer have the time or the resources 56 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:45,960 to do their jobs properly. 57 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,960 Instead, they're just passive processors 58 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,960 of unchecked second-hand material. 59 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,960 OK, but you also... You go much further in suggesting 60 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,960 that there has been criminality involved... 61 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:55,960 Sure. 62 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,960 ..and that's generally accepted within the press. 63 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,960 OK. So, principally, that involves hiring private investigators. 64 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,960 They hire private investigators to get your bank statements, 65 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,320 your credit card statements, your itemised phone bills, 66 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:08,960 your tax records, 67 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,960 even your health records these creatures are getting. 68 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:11,960 All of that is illegal. 69 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,960 OK. We're joined by John Mullin, 70 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,960 who is the editor of The Independent On Sunday, 71 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:17,640 and Stuart Kuttner, 72 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:19,960 who's managing editor of News Of The World. 73 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,960 John Mullin, do you recognise this? 74 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,960 Well, I ploughed my way through the first half of the book, 75 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,960 not the second half so far, 76 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,320 and no-one can deny that life in journalism 77 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,960 is much harder than maybe it was 20, 30 years ago. 78 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,960 But to say that journalism as a whole 79 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,000 is "a passive processor of news"? 80 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,960 I think that's erroneous. 81 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:42,960 Stuart Kuttner? 82 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,960 Yes, I'll tell you what I think. 83 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,960 I think, frankly, listening to Nick Davies, 84 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,960 I thought he was speaking from a newsroom on another planet. 85 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,960 SHE CHUCKLES It is totally unrecognisable to me. 86 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,960 Many years in newspapers in Fleet Street. 87 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,160 Now, of course, at the News Of The World. 88 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,960 But what did he say that was so wrong? 89 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Well, he talks about, if you like, er, 90 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,960 shortcuts, PR interests, commercial interests. 91 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,960 I have to tell you, none of my News Of The World journalists 92 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,480 would recognise that at all. 93 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,960 But what about the way these people get the stories 94 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,960 and access to personal information? 95 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,960 Well, if it happens, it... it shouldn't happen. 96 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,800 It happened once at the News Of The World. 97 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:28,960 The reporter was fired, 98 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,960 he went to prison, the editor resigned. 99 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,960 And while Nick is talking about all this, 100 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:35,960 I notice he doesn't mention 101 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,800 The Guardian's own act of criminality, 102 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,960 when The Guardian forged the signature of a cabinet minister... 103 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,960 OK, I-I don't want to go into details of the story. 104 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,960 I think the charge that Nick Davies... 105 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,960 Sarah, you may not want to go into detail, 106 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,960 but Nick makes a broad-brush, sweeping attack on our profession, 107 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,960 which I happen to believe is an honourable profession. 108 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,640 VOICES MINGLE, ECHO 109 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:01,960 PHONES RINGING, CHATTER 110 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:02,960 MAN: Hello, Mr... 111 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,960 PHONES RINGING 112 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:10,960 Did you hear it? 113 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,320 I wish I hadn't. 114 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,960 HE SIGHS 115 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:15,960 You're too kind. 116 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,960 I did say appearing on the Today programme to attack journalism 117 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,960 wasn't exactly the most sensible idea. 118 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,960 Listen, before I go home, I wanted to talk to you about something. 119 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:25,960 Good thing was, you weren't representing The Guardian. 120 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,960 You were talking about your book. 121 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,960 My book. 122 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,960 Though Kuttner did have a good go at trying to besmirch us through you. 123 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:33,960 I want out. 124 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,960 HE INHALES 125 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,160 Do you know anything about baking competitions? 126 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,320 No. 127 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,960 I want to know how many people cheat at baking competitions. 128 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:44,960 A round number. 129 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,960 Sounds like exactly the sort of thing 130 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,960 the Guardian should be investigating (!) 131 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,960 I don't mean out altogether. I'd like to go to Brussels. 132 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,960 Investigate a whole new horizon, something well paid... 133 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,960 Naturally. ..that will allow me to commute. 134 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,960 The kids are old enough now to be able to... I need you here. 135 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,960 PHONES RINGING, CHATTER 136 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,960 Sadiq Khan. Bugged. 137 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,960 40-year convention breached. 138 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,960 And why? Keep the Americans happy. 139 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:09,960 Needs a good journalist. 140 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,960 Alan, I'm knackered. Nobody likes me. I'm... 141 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,000 Oh, come on. 142 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,960 I like you... some of the time. 143 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,960 And I'm sure there are a few others who-who also... Please. 144 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,960 Self-pity is not a redeeming quality. We'll talk tomorrow. 145 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,960 I'm freelance precisely so that I don't need to talk to you tomorrow. 146 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,960 You're freelance with more or less a sole employer. 147 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,960 I say you should talk to me tomorrow. 148 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,960 Mm. We've all been roasted by Stuart bloody Kuttner. 149 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:38,960 Bye. 150 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,960 Let me explain. Alan is, erm... 151 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,640 Well, we grew up together. In journalism, that is. 152 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,960 PHONE BUZZING He's always understood... Sorry. 153 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,160 Yep. 154 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,480 MAN: 'Nick Davies?' Who's this? 155 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,800 'My name is...' BLEEP 156 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:00,960 Redacted, sorry. 157 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,960 We'll call him Mr Apollo because... 158 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,960 Erm, well, actually, because he's... 159 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,480 It... It doesn't matter. 160 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:08,960 How did you get this number? 161 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,960 'Listen, Kuttner made a mistake.' 162 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,320 Well, I made several, 163 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,960 chief amongst them appearing on the Today programme. 164 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,960 'He said it happened once.' 165 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,960 It happened once. 166 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,640 It happened once at the News Of The World. 167 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,000 The reporter was fired, 168 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,960 he went to prison, the editor resigned. 169 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,160 You're talking about phone hacking. 170 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,960 'Nick, your book only scratched the surface. 171 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,160 'We have to meet face to face, somewhere absolutely discreet. 172 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,960 'I think you'll like what I have.' 173 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,800 Where and when? 174 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,960 In the beginning, it was next to nothing. 175 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,000 Two men were arrested for hacking phones in 2006. 176 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,320 A private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire... 177 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,160 ..and the Royal Editor of The News Of The World, 178 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,960 Clive Goodman. 179 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,960 The sentences they received were short. 180 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,320 The attention they got, limited. But the crime was unusual. 181 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,960 They had discovered they could access 182 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,000 other people's voicemail messages, 183 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,000 and they spent months eavesdropping 184 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,960 on three of Prince William's staff at Clarence House. 185 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,000 How? They didn't say. 186 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,960 Why? 187 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,480 For the discovery of private information. 188 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,000 It was the start of the next six years of my life. 189 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,960 KNOCKING ON DOOR 190 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,960 To be clear, I've never told anyone who Mr Apollo is. 191 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,160 So some guesses have been made. 192 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:41,960 Bad guess. 193 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,480 KNOCKING ON DOOR 194 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,960 No. 195 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:50,960 KNOCKING ON DOOR 196 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,000 No. Sorry, it's not you. 197 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:57,640 KNOCKING ON DOOR 198 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,960 OK. HE CLEARS THROAT 199 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:00,960 Oh, come on. 200 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:01,960 HE SIGHS 201 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,000 KNOCKING ON DOOR 202 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,960 HE SIGHS 203 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,960 Hi. 204 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,960 You coming in, or...? 205 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,000 Sure. 206 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,960 Wow, this is nice. 207 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,960 CHURCH BELLS RINGING IN DISTANCE 208 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,960 Nice choice of room. 209 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,480 Just to check, is The Guardian paying? 210 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,800 Because if so, I'd implore you to stay away from that minibar. 211 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,960 Mulcaire, in the trial, he said he'd hacked other... 212 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,960 Five non-royals. I remember, yes. 213 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,960 Um, Elle Macpherson... 214 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,960 Sky Andrew, Max Clifford... 215 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,960 He's a liar. 216 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,160 Kuttner is a liar, and one of the five is suing them. 217 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,960 Which one? 218 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,960 Well, that five is just the tip of the iceberg. 219 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,960 Hacking phones at the News Of The World 220 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,000 has been endemic. 221 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,960 Endemic? 222 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:58,960 Mm. 223 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,160 They pick up their leads by intercepting voicemails, 224 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,960 and only then do they get photographs and quotes, 225 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,960 so as to lay a false trail, 226 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,960 to pretend they found the story through legitimate means. 227 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:11,960 They've hacked thousands. 228 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:13,960 Here. 229 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,960 Dial a number. 230 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,320 Someone who's likely to not answer. 231 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,960 LINE RINGING OUT 232 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,960 VOICEMAIL: 'This is Alan Rusbridger. Please leave...' 233 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,640 That's your phone-a-friend? The editor of The Guardian? 234 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,480 Press nine. PHONE BEEPS 235 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,800 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Please enter your 4-digit PIN.' 236 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,960 Enter one, two, three, four. That's the factory setting. 237 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:38,960 BEEPING 238 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,960 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Welcome to your voicemail. 239 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,960 'You have one new message.' 240 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,480 WOMAN: 'Alan, it's Mummy. 241 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:46,960 'I'm just calling about Jill Wyatt. 242 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,000 'She won best sponge again, and I'm sure she cheated.' 243 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,960 I don't wanna hear this. 244 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,960 It's that easy? Mm. 245 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,960 Doesn't even need a Glenn Mulcaire most of the time. 246 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,960 And you're saying this was widespread? 247 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,960 Glenn's main job was that when it got tricky, 248 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:01,960 unlike with your Alan, 249 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,960 was to blag the mobile phone companies 250 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,960 into resetting the celebrities' PIN codes 251 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,960 to their original factory setting. 252 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,640 One, two, three, four. 253 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,960 PHONE BUZZES That's Alan. 254 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,320 Please. 255 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,320 'Who is this?' Hi, yeah, it's Nick. 256 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,960 'Oh.' Listen, change the voicemail settings on your phone. 257 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,960 'And how do I do that?' 258 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,960 Ask a young person. I've got to go. Bye. 259 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,640 Who is suing? 260 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:25,960 HE INHALES 261 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,640 The person who is, is currently trying to get Scotland Yard 262 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,960 to hand over evidence they collected and did nothing with 263 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:33,960 when they arrested Mulcaire. 264 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,960 It's evidence that could... HE SIGHS 265 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,320 ..burn, fuck and destroy everything. Twice over. 266 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,960 You won't tell me which one of the five it is, will you? 267 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,960 I will tell you... 268 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,960 that you're missing two names. 269 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,960 Gordon Taylor and Simon Hughes. 270 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,960 Will you go on the record? 271 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,960 HE SIGHS 272 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,960 If you dig, it comes from you. 273 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:01,800 I-I can... 274 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,960 I can confirm things, but... HE SIGHS 275 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,640 Ah, it's just another story of journos behaving badly. 276 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:11,960 You're not interested? 277 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,960 It's interesting, but... you should talk to someone else. 278 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,960 Do you realise I could lose my job just by talking to you? 279 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,320 Don't worry, this conversation never happened. 280 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,960 No, no, no. That's not my point, Nick. You... 281 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,960 Think. Think who edited the paper. 282 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,960 Think about where he sits now. 283 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,960 You're talking about Andy Coulson. 284 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:34,960 Stop him. 285 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:37,960 Shit. 286 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,320 AUTOMATED VOICE: 'Mind the gap. Stand clear of the doors, please.' 287 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,960 Andy Coulson, a rapid-ascent journalist. 288 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,160 From a local reporter to Showbiz at The Sun, 289 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,960 he was made editor of News Of The World in 2003. 290 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,960 Even after he resigned in 2007 291 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:05,960 over the original phone hacking case, 292 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,960 it was seen as honourable, 293 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,640 him carrying the can for the one rogue reporter. 294 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:11,960 "Not me, really, guv." 295 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,000 But if he was... If he is... 296 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,960 If this is endemic, 297 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,960 he's David Cameron's communications director. 298 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,160 For him to be involved in widespread criminality... 299 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,960 No. No, bad idea. 300 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,320 DOORBELL RINGS 301 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:42,960 I'm not late. 302 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,960 It would be fine if you were to be a bit late, 303 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:45,960 so you don't need to be so worried. 304 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,960 Are they ready? Are they ever ready? 305 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,960 Kids? 306 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:50,960 You OK? 307 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,960 Kids! GIRL: Yes, coming! 308 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,960 Ooh, you're anxious to go, then. 309 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,960 Sorry. How are you, etc? 310 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,960 I'm fine, etc. Are you all right? 311 00:13:58,960 --> 00:13:59,960 Never better. 312 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,960 Really? I heard you on the radio. 313 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,960 Mm. That sort of performance help sales? 314 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:05,960 Oh, I would doubt it. 315 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:06,960 Mm. 316 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:09,480 I'm, erm... 317 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,960 I am worried about... BLEEP. 318 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,960 I'm not going to reveal my child's name. 319 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,960 Let's call him... Beans. 320 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,960 He comes home, locks himself in his room. 321 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,960 I have tried to talk to him, but... 322 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:22,960 Avoids all questions. 323 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,320 So, do we bring the school in? 324 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,960 Let's get the details, make sure he wants the help. 325 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,640 Oh, you sound like a journalist. 326 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:34,960 Let me try. 327 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:38,960 Let me try. 328 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,480 OK. 329 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:57,960 Got a new recipe. 330 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,320 OK, Dad. Stuffed tomato thing. 331 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:01,960 Yeah, nice. Sounds good. 332 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,960 I'll call you when it's ready. It's Turkish. 333 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,320 Yep. So... 334 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:06,960 I met someone today. 335 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,320 A source. 336 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,960 'He was pissed off with what Kuttner said on the radio.' 337 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:13,960 OK. 338 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,960 Hacking was "endemic", he said, at News Of The World. 339 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,960 And someone is now suing Scotland Yard 340 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,960 for information on what was hacked. 341 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,960 Now, I know... I know it's one of either Elle Macpherson, 342 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,960 Simon Hughes, Gordon Taylor, Sky Andrew or Max Clifford. 343 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,000 'But I don't know which one.' 344 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,000 What do you think? 345 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,960 Do I dig? 346 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,960 Try to find out who it is? If I find them, it might... 347 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:36,960 we might get some evidence 348 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,960 that proves foul play was a bit more widespread. 349 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,960 Imagine what it does to Andy Coulson. He's about to... 350 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,960 He could soon have keys to 10 Downing Street. 351 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,000 Did Cameron do a fit-and-proper-person test on him? 352 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,960 'Did he even look into Coulson's past?' 353 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,160 It's a good angle. 354 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,960 'But another "tabloids behaving badly" story?' 355 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,960 I said the same thing. 356 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,960 And who wants to kick a bees' nest? 357 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,480 Murdoch, you know? 358 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,000 This source... 359 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,960 'Has he got under your skin?' 360 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,480 No. I just wanted to talk it out with someone. You. 361 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,960 Ah. 362 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,960 Always grateful to be your sounding board. 363 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:15,960 'Go home, Alan.' 364 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Who says I'm in the office? 365 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,960 'We'll always have Brussels. Bye.' 366 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:35,960 It's creepy when you do that. 367 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,960 Stare at me like that. 368 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:38,960 How are you? 369 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:40,960 Why are you asking? 370 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,960 If there ever is anything you need to discuss... 371 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,960 Yes, Dad. I know. 372 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,960 I, erm... I-I never much liked school. 373 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:11,960 I'm not being bullied. 374 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,960 I always saw school as a necessity... 375 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,960 Why does everyone always think I'm being bullied? 376 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,960 ..not a virtue. There was a guy... 377 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,000 ..who-who used to hit us. 378 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:24,320 Another kid? 379 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,960 Actually, a teacher. 380 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:28,960 He used to... 381 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,960 God, he used to really scare me. 382 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,960 I-I never used to do well. 383 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:33,960 Erm... 384 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,960 Well, I never used to do well with fear, 385 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,160 but also, the thing I remember most clearly... 386 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,960 rage. 387 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,320 I heard you on the radio. 388 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,800 You listen to the Today programme? 389 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,960 Mum makes us listen to or read everything you do. 390 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,960 "You've an impressive dad." 391 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,960 And she says it like, 392 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,960 "He may be a total dick, but he's impressive." 393 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,960 HE SCOFFS All right. 394 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,640 You know the story of the dung beetle? 395 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,000 God. Really, again? 396 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,960 If you want to fly free... 397 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,960 First you have to eat a lot of shit. 398 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,160 Sometimes you have to ignore bullies. 399 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:17,960 I'm not being bullied. Sometimes you... 400 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:18,960 you have to puncture them. 401 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,000 I'm not, Dad. There's always a way to... 402 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,480 There's always a chance when the wankers... 403 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:24,960 when they suddenly seem vulnerable. 404 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,960 When they are... 405 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,960 you have to clamp your pincers onto them as hard as possible. 406 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:31,960 Do not let go. 407 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,960 Tomatoes are in the oven. Ready in ten. They're Turkish. 408 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,960 I love you very much. 409 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,160 WOMAN'S DISTORTED VOICE 410 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,320 'You stupid child! 411 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,000 'You are SUCH a disappointment!' 412 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,960 It won't surprise you to know we didn't get the rights 413 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,960 to use their masthead. 414 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:13,960 Or this one. 415 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,320 DIALLING PHONE 416 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,960 Hi, it's Nick Davies. 417 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,960 You still have that contact at Scotland Yard? 418 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:31,960 MAN 1: 'No, sorry, mate. 419 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,480 'I really cannot be getting involved with that one. 420 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:35,640 'You know how it is.' 421 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,960 But Andy Coulson will soon be sitting in Downing Street. 422 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,960 MAN 2: 'Yeah, and Murdoch's already sitting on Downing Street.' 423 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,960 Yeah, I-I... 424 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,160 Yes, I appreciate that. I understand. 425 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,960 If I could get some evidence of this... 426 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,960 MAN 2: 'No.' MAN 3: 'No.' 427 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,960 MAN 4: 'No.' All right. Thanks. Bye. 428 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,960 PHONE RINGS 429 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,960 NICK: Oh, hi. Thanks for calling back. 430 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,960 Do you have the number for... Name redacted. 431 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,960 See you later. Yeah. 432 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,960 OK, great. Zero... 433 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,960 ..seven, seven, zero, zero, nine, 434 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,960 zero, zero, nine, five, four. 435 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,960 Got that. Thank you. 436 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,960 Hi. I'm wondering whether I could speak to 437 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,960 whoever represents Elle Macpherson. 438 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:22,960 No, no, I'm not a fan. 439 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,960 No, I'm wondering whether she's currently suing 440 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:26,960 the News Of The World. 441 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,960 Is that Max? 442 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,960 Hi, it's Nick Davies. 443 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,960 We met at The Orwell Prize. 444 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,960 I'm actually after a bit of insight. 445 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,960 Well, no. Just give me a chance... LINE GOES DEAD 446 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:50,960 HE SIGHS 447 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,960 Detective Buzz Aldrin? 448 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:02,960 Not his real name. 449 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,960 My name is Nick Davies. I'm a Guardian journalist. 450 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,960 I believe you were looking into the Clive Goodman case? 451 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,480 I'm very busy, Mr Davies. 452 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,960 I've followed your work, Buzz. I know how principled you are. 453 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,960 I think you know that this... what is happening here 454 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,960 is acutely in the public interest, 455 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,960 and if it's all dealt with in behind-stairs deals, 456 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:17,960 it'll help no-one. 457 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,960 I can't talk to journalists. You don't have to talk. 458 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,960 All I need to know is which of the five non-royal names 459 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,960 in the Clive Goodman case is now suing the paper. 460 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:25,960 Cough. 461 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,960 That's all I ask. Cough when I hit the right name. 462 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:28,960 You are very persistent. 463 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,960 Because what I understand 464 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,960 is that those five names represent thousands, 465 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,160 thousands of people 466 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,960 who've had their privacy stolen by this newspaper. Please. 467 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,000 Elle Macpherson. 468 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,960 Simon Hughes. 469 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:43,960 Gordon Taylor. 470 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:44,960 "BUZZ" COUGHS 471 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,160 Thank you. 472 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:48,960 You did the right thing. 473 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,960 CHATTER 474 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,960 Sorry, excuse me. Charlotte Harris? 475 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,960 Nick Davies at The Guardian. 476 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,960 I believe you represent Gordon Taylor. 477 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:11,960 I'm due in court. 478 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,960 I understand that he's suing News Of The World for breach of privacy. 479 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,960 Mr Davies, whether or not Mr Taylor is my client, 480 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,960 I have no interest in talking to any press. Sorry. 481 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,960 These so-called journalists... 482 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,960 bring our whole industry into disrepute. 483 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,960 You're very persistent. 484 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,960 Well, can you... 485 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,960 can you tell me, then, about John Hewison? 486 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,960 He's also a claimant, is he not? 487 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,480 And the interesting thing is, 488 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,480 if you ask the public who those two are, 489 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,960 they might know Taylor. 490 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,960 They wouldn't know Hewison because he's a lawyer. 491 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,800 Like you. 492 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,960 He's entrusted with the secrets of others, 493 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,960 in the secrets of sports stars, in his case, 494 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,640 which makes him interesting to the News Of The World. 495 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,480 This is a news operation, 496 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,960 which is trying to undermine the confidentiality 497 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,960 that crucially underlies your profession. 498 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,960 If you want to fight it... 499 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,800 well, you're a tiger, but they're lions. 500 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,960 The Guardian's a lion too. 501 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,960 Well, what if I'm neither a lion nor a tiger? 502 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,960 What if... I am a walrus? 503 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,960 Walruses can be fierce. 504 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:13,960 And what if you're a... 505 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,960 See, I'm trying to think of an annoying animal. 506 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,960 Has Mr Taylor settled? SHE LAUGHS 507 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,320 What evidence do you have? Are there other claimants? 508 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,640 I'm sure you must... you must be looking to engage more clients. 509 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,320 Privacy cases like this can sometimes... 510 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,960 HE STUTTERS What did Max Mosley get? 511 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,960 £60,000 and costs. 512 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,960 Line enough up, you could have a class-action suit 513 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,160 worth a lot of money. 514 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,640 You were doing well, reasonably well, 515 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,960 until you brought money into it. 516 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,960 I can't talk to you about specific cases, 517 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,960 but I can tell you... 518 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,960 ..I can tell you that there is so much more to come. 519 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,960 PHONE BEEPS 520 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,960 PHONE BUZZING 521 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:04,960 Yep. 522 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,640 MR APOLLO: 'You've got the name.' 523 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,960 Mr Apollo, you're back. 524 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,960 Are you watching me? 525 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,960 'I take it you're still interested in this case, then?' 526 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000 The deer is in the fireplace. The lion is alight. 527 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,960 Wh-What the fuck are you doing? 528 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,960 Sorry, I... I have a tendency to make jokes. 529 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,960 I was trying to... trying to be a Russian spy. 530 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,960 We could be spotted at any moment. Do you know the risks? 531 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:32,960 I do. Sorry. 532 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,960 MR APOLLO SIGHS 533 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,960 So, you found the lawyer. 534 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,960 Is this some kind of a test? 535 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,320 Do I get a prize at the end of it? 536 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,960 Do you know how much they're settling for? No. 537 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:43,960 MR APOLLO CHUCKLES 538 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,960 £400,000 in damages, another £300,000 in legal expenses, 539 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,960 and their associates are getting £140,000 in damages, 540 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,800 plus their legal. 541 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,960 The whole package comes in at just over a million pounds. 542 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:57,960 Now, that's a lot, 543 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,320 even for News International, to stomach. 544 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,960 But... 545 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:03,960 Max Mosley was... 546 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,960 They accused him of being a Nazi at an orgy. 547 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,960 All he got was... 548 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,960 Was £60,000, yes. Now you're getting it. 549 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:14,960 Look, I need... 550 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,480 I need paperwork, or-or audio recording, 551 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,960 some sort of hard evidence. 552 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,320 I don't even have to publish it. 553 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,800 I just need to be able to show The Guardian. 554 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,960 The preliminary hearings in 2007, they're public record. 555 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,480 That's not enough. 556 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:28,960 Mm. 557 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,960 Right. 558 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,960 What is it? You'll work it out. 559 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:39,960 Can I use it? Nope. 560 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,960 I need to be able to use it. 561 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,960 Summarise it, yes. 562 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:44,960 Show it to your editor, yes. 563 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,320 Quote from it, no. 564 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,960 Can I have your number? 565 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,960 Be careful, Nick. 566 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,960 This could get nasty. 567 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,960 PHONE RINGING 568 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,000 I have a piece on MPs' expenses I want you to have a look at. 569 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,960 OK. Do you want some gingerbread? 570 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,960 My mother made it. It's not very good. 571 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,320 I have evidence. 572 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,000 How long did that take you to get? 573 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,800 Maybe two months. And you've never mentioned it? 574 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,000 They're paying out millions to cover this up. 575 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,480 This is a story. 576 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,800 Nick, newspapers reporting on newspapers... 577 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,960 But the editor of that newspaper is about to enter government. 578 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,960 If Andy Coulson was complicit in hacking phones as an editor, 579 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,960 imagine what he might do to enemies of the Government. 580 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,320 Show me what you have. 581 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,960 OK, so... 582 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,960 Printout of an email. 583 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,960 ross.hindley@news-of-the-world to shadowmen@yahoo.co.uk. 584 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,320 It's Glenn Mulcaire's email. His email was "shadowmen"? 585 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,960 Mm. It says, "Transcript for Neville. 586 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,960 "Wednesday, 29th of June, 2005." 587 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,160 I can read. 588 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,640 And Neville is...? 589 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,960 Neville Thurlbeck. Chief reporter at News Of The World. 590 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,960 There are transcripts of 35 voicemail messages 591 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,960 which had been left on the phones of Gordon Taylor and a colleague. 592 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:15,960 It wasn't just Clive Goodman. 593 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,960 And then there's this. 594 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,000 Greg Miskiw, assistant editor, 595 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,960 approving a payment of £7,000 to Mulcaire 596 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,480 for a story on Gordon Taylor. 597 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,960 And the police have access to all of this and more. 598 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,960 Can we use these? 599 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,800 No. 600 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,960 Can we get your Mr Apollo to speak on the record? 601 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:38,960 How long have we known each other? 602 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,960 I've no idea. 603 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,960 And no interest in trying to work that out. 604 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:43,960 It'll make me feel old. 605 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:44,960 Nearly 30 years. 606 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,960 This is it, Alan. 607 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,960 There is an industry making huge profit 608 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,960 from invading people's private lives, 609 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,960 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids 610 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,960 have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it. 611 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:01,960 This matters. 612 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,000 Tin hats on. 613 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,960 Good. OK. 614 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,960 I'll-I'll let you know when I've got something. 615 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,960 Thanks, Alan. 616 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,480 'You may think you lead a private life, 617 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,320 'but The Guardian has uncovered evidence 618 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,640 'to suggest otherwise. 619 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,960 'This strange story began in 2006 with the arrest of two men. 620 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,000 'The News Of The World Royal Editor, Clive Goodman, 621 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000 'and private investigator Glenn Mulcaire. 622 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,960 'The men pled guilty to phone hacking charges 623 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,160 'and served prison sentences. 624 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,640 'Following an investigation, the paper told the world 625 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,960 'that hacking was the work of "one rogue reporter". 626 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,960 'The story should have ended there. 627 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,960 'But it didn't.' 628 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,960 HE GROANS 629 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,960 RUPERT MURDOCH: 'From the beginning on, 630 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,960 'newspapers have prospered for one reason - 631 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,960 'giving readers the news they want.' 632 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,960 Shit. 633 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,800 Shit! Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit! 634 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:19,960 HE GROANS 635 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,160 Keep it simple. 636 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,480 'Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers 637 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,800 'had paid out more than £1,000,000 638 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,000 'to settle legal cases that threatened to reveal evidence 639 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,960 'of his journalists' repeated involvement 640 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,960 'in the use of criminal methods to get stories.' 641 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,960 ALAN: "The payments secured secrecy over out-of-court settlements 642 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,960 "in three cases that threatened to expose evidence 643 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,960 "of Murdoch journalists using private investigators 644 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,160 "to illegally hack into the mobile phone messages 645 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,960 "of numerous public figures. 646 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,960 "Cabinet ministers, MPs, actors and sports stars 647 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,960 "were all targets of private investigators." 648 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,960 Are you sure we can safely list all those groups? 649 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,960 We already have evidence of actors, Elle Macpherson, 650 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,960 sport stars, Sky Andrew... MPs, then? 651 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,960 I have an invoice, er, 652 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,960 recording a payment to a private investigator 653 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,000 showing John Prescott had been targeted. 654 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,320 It's likely hacking. 655 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,960 This article has no named sources, no evidence on the record. 656 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,960 Alan thinks we have enough. I do too. 657 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,960 And we haven't got right of reply. 658 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,800 It's a declaration of bloody war. 659 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,320 Murdoch and Brooks, they have nuclear weapons. 660 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,960 Right now, they do. 661 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,960 But we can neuter their nuclear weapons with this. 662 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,960 If we do, Fleet Street will fall in behind us, 663 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,960 the police soon after. And they have... 664 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,960 When they find the information they already have. 665 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:27,960 Information they've lost? 666 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,960 Information they don't know they have. 667 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,000 This is The Met we're talking about. 668 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,960 Look, once we publish, they'll be forced to act. 669 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,960 Can we name Coulson? 670 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,160 Now you're worried I haven't gone far enough. 671 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,320 No, it makes it more in the public interest 672 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,960 if we can name him. 673 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,960 I did ring Conservative HQ - right to reply, Gill. 674 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,960 I asked about the Gordon Taylor settlement. 675 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,960 His office replied - it "didn't ring any bells". 676 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,960 We've nothing that directly links him. 677 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:50,960 I agree. 678 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,960 But... 679 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,960 we can say... 680 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,960 that he was the editor in place 681 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,960 when journalists for whom he was responsible, etc, etc, etc... 682 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,960 That's good. 683 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,000 That's good. 684 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:06,960 Yes? 685 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,000 I'm uneasy. But if you're sure... 686 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:15,960 I am. 687 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,480 RUFUS: It reads well. 688 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:29,960 OK. 689 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,960 At half past five in the afternoon on Wednesday, 8th of July, 2009, 690 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,960 we posted my news story on The Guardian website. 691 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,960 As it ran, The Guardian news desk asked a reporter, Caroline Davies, 692 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,320 to call John Prescott, ex-Deputy Prime Minister, 693 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:50,640 to get a quote. 694 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,960 I told him the gist of the story, and he said, "Fookin' 'ell!" 695 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,960 'You'd have thought the police, 696 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,480 'in the committing of a criminal offence, 697 00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,960 'as, clearly, it is, against anyone, 698 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,160 'and particularly, you'd have thought, a Cabinet member, 699 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,960 'they would have told me about it. 700 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,960 'I would have asked them, "What are you gonna do about it?" ' 701 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,960 Prescott roared. 702 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,960 But the house fell silent. 703 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,960 Anyone? 704 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:16,960 Anyone? 705 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,960 And Fleet Street, well... 706 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,640 CHATTER 707 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,960 Fleet Street essentially did their best to ignore the story. 708 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,960 Ask any journalist what a great story depends on. 709 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,160 They'll say the same thing. 710 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,960 A new angle. 711 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,960 One at least journalists can get behind. 712 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,960 We are reliant on our own profession 713 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,960 to follow up on stories so they have impact. 714 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,960 To make a story newsworthy requires multiple news outlets. 715 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,160 But on this one... 716 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,960 crickets. 717 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,960 My company couldn't have settled the legal action 718 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:54,960 like The Guardian claims. 719 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,960 If they had done, I'd have known about it. 720 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,320 I tried to get this out as wide as possible. 721 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,800 I talked on radio stations, TV shows. 722 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,160 I took constant calls from agents of public figures asking, 723 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,960 "Am I on that list?" 724 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,960 I slept about four hours. 725 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,480 And then, at five in the afternoon, 726 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,960 I was surprised to hear that John Yates, 727 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,000 Assistant Commissioner of Scotland Yard, 728 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,480 was preparing to make a statement. 729 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:17,960 Good afternoon. 730 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,960 I was not involved in the original case 731 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,960 and clearly come at this with an independent mind. 732 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,960 In my opinion, what I've seen 733 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,000 is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives. 734 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,960 He proceeded to gently demolish our work. 735 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,960 We'd suggested there were thousands of victims. 736 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,960 The potential targets may have run into hundreds of people. 737 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,960 But our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic 738 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,960 against a far smaller number of individuals. 739 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,960 And since no additional evidence has come to light, 740 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,480 I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry. 741 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,960 Thank you. That's all for today. 742 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,160 REPORTER: Does that mean The Guardian fabricated the story? 743 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,960 REPORTERS CLAMOUR 744 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,960 NICK SIGHS 745 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,960 '..may have run into hundreds of people. 746 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:02,960 'But our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic 747 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,960 'against a far smaller number of individuals. 748 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,640 'And since no additional evidence has come to light, 749 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,960 'I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry.' 750 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,960 REPORTER: 'That was Assistant Commissioner John Yates, 751 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,960 'speaking in response to...' 752 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,000 What is it? 753 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,160 The police haven't backed us, 754 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,960 and Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 755 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,960 He was Director of Public Prosecutions then. 756 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,320 But he doesn't consider there was anything inappropriate 757 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,960 in the prosecutions undertaken in this case. 758 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,960 We are being squashed. 759 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,960 We need to speak to your Mr Apollo. We need to get him on the record. 760 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,000 He... Mm. 761 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,960 No, he can contact me. I can't contact him. 762 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:43,960 Nick. 763 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,960 Our colleagues upstairs are gravely concerned. 764 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,960 Is it possible you were set up? 765 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,960 No, this is right. I've... 766 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,960 We've used no named sources, no quotes from documents. 767 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,960 We should never have published. 768 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,960 And Murdoch has set his attack dogs on us in the Commons. 769 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,960 They're briefing that we can't back up our story. 770 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,960 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 771 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,160 That doesn't sound great. 772 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,960 They want to barbecue you, Nick, 773 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,960 and John Yates has given them permission. 774 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:19,960 I'm sorry. I, er... 775 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,480 I've read the runes wrong here. 776 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,960 The Guardian are putting together a statement. 777 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,960 What kind of statement? 778 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:29,960 I'll know when I see it. 779 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,960 I feel like I'm having a heart attack. 780 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,800 HE EXHALES 781 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,800 Why is everybody doing this? 782 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,960 HE EXHALES 783 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,960 My mother was a strong character. 784 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,960 Intelligent, forceful, imaginative. 785 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,960 Trapped, as she believed, in domestic drudgery. She had... 786 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,960 She had a furious temper. 787 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,960 This wasn't the 1950s toxic ideal of "Spare the rod and spoil the child". 788 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,160 This was mad beatings, 789 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,160 when she came after us with a black-eyed fury, 790 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,960 armed with whatever weapon she had to hand - 791 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,960 a dog lead, a slipper, a riding crop, a rope. 792 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,480 Are you ready to say you're sorry? 793 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:43,960 No. 794 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:49,160 DOOR SLAMS 795 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,960 I'd been working as a journalist for a couple of decades, 796 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,960 thinking I was interested in criminal justice 797 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,160 and social problems, 798 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,960 when I saw that I was being drawn to stories, 799 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,960 again and again, with the same theme. 800 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,960 A deep-seated urge to hit back... 801 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:05,960 CHILDREN SHOUTING 802 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,960 ..at anybody at all... 803 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,640 MAN: Mr Davies! 804 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,960 ..who takes power and abuses it. 805 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,320 Stupid child! 806 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,960 HE ROARS, SCHOOL BELL RINGS 807 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,960 PHONE BUZZES 808 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,320 HE SIGHS 809 00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,960 Yeah, so, I tried hitting him back. 810 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,800 Why? 811 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:03,960 Seething rage. 812 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,960 I thought he looked vulnerable. 813 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:08,960 Oh. 814 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:11,960 Didn't work. 815 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,640 No. 816 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,960 You look terrible. 817 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,960 Thank you. 818 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:20,960 What happened to you? 819 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,960 You asking me or him? 820 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,960 OK, so, I need to take you to your mum's tonight. 821 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,960 Erm... She says she's cool with it if you are. 822 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,000 Yeah, sure, I don't mind. 823 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,960 REPORTER: 'It's been a day of statement and counter-statement 824 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,800 'in the phone hacking affair, 825 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,960 'with News International angrily refuting 826 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,960 'all the allegations made by The Guardian. 827 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,960 'With the editor and the reporter 828 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,960 'due to appear at the Media Select Committee, 829 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,640 'certain publications are claiming a leftist agenda 830 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,960 'against the News Of The World by The Guardian 831 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,000 'and calling for legal action to be taken against the organisation 832 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,960 'if they can't back up 833 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,960 'spurious claims made against Murdoch's paper.' 834 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,960 Hi. SHERIDAN: Hello. 835 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,960 See you, kids. Hi, kids. 836 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,960 Oh, hang on... I'm fine, Mum. I'm fine. 837 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,960 It's my fault. 838 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,800 Sorry. Bad advice. 839 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,960 Coffee? I'll... 840 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,800 Thanks for this. I'll see you Monday. I'm sorry. 841 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:38,960 Nick? Yeah? 842 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,000 Have you eaten? 843 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,960 When? In the last day. 844 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:43,960 I'm just... 845 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,960 a bit tired. I'm not... I'm not really at my best. 846 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,960 I need to think. And the... 847 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,960 ..House of Commons Select Committee want to see us tomorrow. 848 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,960 And The Guardian have got this message 849 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,960 that their PR have written, that is... that is just... 850 00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:01,960 All right. OK. 851 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,960 You look worse than he does. Let's... 852 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,960 WHISPERS: I didn't tell him to fight back. 853 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,960 I told him to pick his moment. I didn't want him to hit someone. 854 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:10,960 Shit. 855 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,960 It's all right. 856 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:14,960 Come on. 857 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,320 Sit down. Sit down. 858 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,960 Soup OK? 859 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,960 What do I do? 860 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,960 How do I make it better? 861 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,960 Er, well, we will talk to the school. 862 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,960 You think they'll do better? 863 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,960 It's a good school. 864 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,000 Things have changed, you know. 865 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,960 Teachers, parents, they're not allowed to do... 866 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,960 There's systems, right? 867 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:48,960 I thought about her. 868 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,960 Earlier today, I was reading this... 869 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,960 ..papier-mache, over-apologetic PR nonsense, 870 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,960 and I thought about all the times I'd gone to her and apologised. 871 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,960 And all the times that I... HE STAMMERS 872 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,960 And then my son gets a face like that. 873 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:08,960 OK. 874 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,960 I'm gonna make the sofa up. You're staying here tonight. 875 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,960 And I'll just put this soup on. 876 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,640 GAS HOB LIGHTS 877 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,480 PHONE BUZZES 878 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,960 LINE RINGING OUT 879 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:49,960 ALAN: 'Hi.' 880 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,960 I can't read that statement. 881 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,960 A retraction at this time... 882 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,960 you're asking me to say I was wrong. 883 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,320 If we can't get Mr Apollo on the record, 884 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,000 then we need to make a retraction. 885 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,960 You know getting him on the record is impossible. 886 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,960 Then I'm afraid you'll have to make that statement 887 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,480 to the Select Committee tomorrow. 888 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960 If you make me read it out, I won't come. 889 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,960 If you don't come... 890 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,960 we're fucked. 891 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:19,960 Oh. 892 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,960 HE SIGHS 893 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,960 HE EXHALES 894 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,000 Carl Bernstein, one of the great reporters 895 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,960 who exposed the Watergate scandal, said, 896 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,960 "I think all good reporting is the same thing. 897 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,960 "The best attainable version of the truth." 898 00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,960 The best attainable version of the truth. 899 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,960 The best attainable... So, no matter what, you've got... 900 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:08,960 ..you've got to... 901 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:28,960 Morning. 902 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,640 Hi. Does this, erm, printer-scanner thing still work? 903 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:33,960 Er... 904 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:34,960 Yeah, that one does. Coffee? 905 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,960 And do you have some black paper and some glue and some scissors? 906 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,960 Aw, are you making me a collage, Nick? 907 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,960 Might need the kids to be slightly late for school. 908 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:45,960 Right. Why? 909 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,960 OK, so, these are emails 910 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,960 written to a journalist, that's Neville, 911 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:54,960 with transcriptions 912 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,960 of a man called Gordon Taylor's voicemail messages. 913 00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,960 What I need you to do is to block out all the sections 914 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:01,960 which are clearly transcribed from those voicemails. 915 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,960 Leave everything else visible. 916 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,960 Should be able to tell which bits are which. Any doubts, just ask. 917 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,960 Mm. May I ask, why aren't you doing this at The Guardian, 918 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,320 with some sort of vague professionalism? 919 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,960 Alan can't know. 920 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,960 Your editor can't know? 921 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,800 Because I can't have him tell anyone else. 922 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,960 Oh, yeah, that man is a gossip. 923 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:19,960 Fleet Street can't know about this. 924 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,960 As far as they know, I'm walking naked into that committee room. 925 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,960 I was just trying to protect my editor. 926 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,960 And my newspaper. 927 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:26,960 And you? 928 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,960 What sort of danger are you putting yourself in here? 929 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,800 HE SIGHS 930 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:01,640 Nick. 931 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,160 How are you, Alan? 932 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,960 I'm fine. Bit tired. 933 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,960 Something interrupted my sleep last night. 934 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,640 I hate it when that happens. 935 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:15,960 I hate all of this. 936 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,480 Sorry if I've made your life difficult. 937 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,320 My life? 938 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,960 This is bigger than me. 939 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:25,960 You could have brought down 940 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,960 the whole Guardian newspaper with this one. 941 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,960 But what a way to go. 942 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,320 I mean... 943 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,800 consider the glory. 944 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,800 "I, Nick Davies, 945 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,960 "have destroyed, utterly destroyed, 946 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,960 "close to 200 years of journalistic endeavour." 947 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,960 You're an absolute... God! 948 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,320 God, I can't even think what you are. 949 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:51,960 You're awful. 950 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,960 You know what Peter Preston told me when I took over the editor's desk? 951 00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,960 "Why in hell did they choose you?" 952 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:02,960 "Don't join the club." 953 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,960 He'd had to make adjustments to the paper 954 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,960 after the move from Manchester, and he didn't... 955 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,480 well, he wouldn't be part of the media cabal. 956 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,960 He liked being on the edge of Fleet Street. 957 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,960 He considered it part of our DNA. 958 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,800 Last night in bed, I realised something. 959 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,960 What you've done, bringing us here, 960 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,960 is in the line of great Guardian coups. 961 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,320 But I do want to keep the newspaper I've been entrusted with alive. 962 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,960 Are you reading the statement? 963 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:38,960 No. 964 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,160 But I do have things to say. 965 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,960 If you go too far, I will squeeze your leg, 966 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,960 and you will stop. 967 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:52,960 I've got a paper to protect. 968 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,960 And you, be sure to protect yourself. 969 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,960 Tin hats on. 970 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,960 JOHN WHITTINGDALE: Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 971 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,960 Now, we have a lot of questions, 972 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,960 so try to keep opening statements short. 973 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,320 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 974 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:11,960 MURMURING, LAUGHTER 975 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,960 But I do have... There is a lot for me to say. 976 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,960 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, 977 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,960 copies of an email. 978 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,480 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 67362

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